George Kamel - Sahil Bloom: Why Money Doesn't Make You Wealthy ☕️ Millionaires In Cars Getting Coffee

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

In this episode, I’m hitting the road with multimillionaire, investor and entrepreneur Sahil Bloom.Stick around to hear about the five types of wealth, how to leave a legacy that matters, and why he thinks babies should have investment accounts. Next Steps: • 🖊️ Take this audience survey for a chance to win a $250 gift card!• ✍️ Check out Sahil Bloom’s first book, The 5 Types of Wealth. • 🎥 Watch my video Agree to Disagree | The @MinorityMindset & Humphrey Yang (@humphrey). • 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan. • 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Connect With Our Sponsors: • 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. • 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road. Explore More From Ramsey Network:  🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Instant gratification will kill the life of your dreams. Your entire life will change when you realize you have to sacrifice short-term freedom in order to build and earn long-term freedom. Your wealthy life may be enabled by money, but in the end it will be defined by everything else. Oh, man. It's fine. Oh, my God, man. You are just, you're not going to be allowed back in Boston.

I have credit cards, but my credit cards are used. in the exact way that you use a debit card. Ooh, are we gonna go, are we gonna do this right now? Do you not agree with that? Well, hey guys, George Camel here with a very special guest today. Sitting Shotgun in just a moment will be my friend Saw Hill Bloom, best-selling author of the five types of wealth and all around amazing human being. We're gonna talk about legacy, about investing, and investment accounts for babies, question mark.

So be sure to invest in yourself first by hitting that like and subscribe button so you don't miss one of these conversations. one of these conversations. All right, let's get to it. Millionaires and cars getting coffee starts starts now. Hey, your Uber is here, my good man. How you doing? I promise I'll give you five stars. What's up? Oh my goodness. You look great. You look like a best selling author. I'm trying to keep up with you. It looks great on you. The best selling author, glow. Is it the glow? I think so. I feel different. Do you? No. You woke up and you're like, same guy. Just doing my cold plunge at 4 a.m. Excited for the cold brew. Yeah.

What do you want to go? What's your favorite? What's your go-to? This is your hometown. You said your go-to was a Dunkin' Donuts Cold Brew. That is true. Are you feeling that? Are there Dunkin' Donuts in Nashville? Yeah, we got them. They're not the same as like, you know, I'm from Boston. So Duncan Donuts there hits different.

I think that's actually true. It is like, you know how people always say that like New York bagels hit different? Yeah. And people claim there's something in the water. I think there's something in the water with the Duncan in Boston. I don't know why. Because it's not great. No one's like this is high quality.

Are you saying it's not great coffee? Excuse me. Yes. Did a Boston man just say, I can just say Duncan is not great coffee. Well, what I realize they really like is cream and sugar. When you say, I want, give me the regular. That's just cream and sugar in there.

You're just drinking cream and sugar. That's what you're trying to get into your system with a hint of caffeine. I mean, that's the coffee milkshake. This is one of my strongest held beliefs is that anything other than black coffee is just a coffee milkshake. Thank you. You can dance around that and you can say whatever you want. But the reality is, if you're putting like, you know, three creams, two sugars in your coffee, it's not coffee anymore. Just thank you for calling that out.

No one ever wants to talk about coffee in this car, but it's in the title. Millionaires and cars getting coffee. So what do you like to talk about then? I love talking about wealth and coffee methods. All right. So we'll get to the coffee methods, but right now I want to ask you about this book. Five types of wealth. I almost memorized all five, but I want you to do the honors.

So you cover these as sort of a nod to wealth and say, hey, there's more to it than just a money part. Yeah. Yeah, the whole idea is that the way that we have treated. traditionally measured wealth, measured our lives is incomplete. And that has historically just been money. It has been the scoreboard, if you will. It's the one way that we've used to stack ourselves up, to measure ourselves, to class ourselves.

We've kind of determined our entire life's worth around this single number. And unfortunately, while money is a part of building a wealthy life, it is not everything. There are all of these other areas of life that really matter in terms of building the comprehensively wealthy life, the good life that we're all trying to build towards. And so the five types of wealth that I lay out in the book are one time wealth. That's about your freedom to choose, how you spend your time, who you spend it with, where you spend it, when you trade it for other things. It's about an awareness of the finite, impermanent nature of your time and about acting on that awareness. The second type is social wealth, all about

your relationships. The few close, deep bonds, and then the broader, of connections to something bigger than yourself, communities, local, regional, spiritual, etc. Mental wealth is the third type. That's about purpose. It's about growth. And it's about creating the space necessary to wrestle with some of the bigger picture, sort of unanswerable questions in life, whether through spirituality, religion, meditation,

solitude, what have you. The fourth type is physical wealth. Physical wealth is about your health and vitality, taking the controllable actions on a daily basis to fight against the natural decay that your body goes through as you get older. And then the fifth type is financial wealth, the one we all know and love, money. It's part of it. But with the very important nuance of really understanding your definition of enough, with the acknowledgement that your expectations are your single greatest financial liability.

If you allow your expectations to grow faster than your assets, you will never feel wealthy. It's just going to be an endless chase. An endless chase for whatever more. That is biblical. That's ecclesiastical right there. I like that. You know, I sometimes draw upon these things. You feel like a modern day like Socrates. You find yourself pondering.

I would never compare myself to anyone of that stature. I do think there is a lot of value to be found in reading the classics and sort of framing those classic ideas in a modern lens. Because the reality is that it's like the Lindy effect is that idea that if something has perpetuated, and stood the test of time, there's a reason. And I think that when it comes to the classics, like when I go and read things from the Bible, or if you read, like, C.S. Lewis, me or Christianity, or you read some of these ancient texts,

there's so much application to your present life that you can draw upon from these things. Still hits as the kids do say. I do that throughout the book, too. It's like it draws a lot upon, you know, ancient wisdom. When it comes to these five types of wealth, These are not new ideas. You know that these things are important in your life.

The problem is that it's never been brought to the front of your mind. So you allow these ideas, the fact that time is your most precious asset, the fact that your relationships contribute to this good life, the fact that your health is so important, your purpose. You allow these things to exist in the back where you cannot actually act on them. And in all things in life, you have to think about the fact that there's a combination of awareness and action. Awareness is great, but if you're not taking action,

on the awareness. It's meaningless. I know I should move my body, but the action to do it is just takes such a will and fear, brute force to do it. If you build up what the level is that you have to do that at, this is by the way the probably number one challenge that ambitious people face is we allow optimal to get in the way of beneficial over and over again. So you say, like, I don't have an hour to work out, so I'm just not going to work out. I don't have 30 to call my mom, so I'm just not going to call. I don't have two hours for deep work, so I'm just going to email instead. The reality is that anything above zero compounds, right? We know that in the financial world. Putting away $10 into an investment account is better than zero. Anything above zero compounds. That same

rule applies to your health. It applies to your relationships, all of these other areas of your life. So send the text, that's better than doing nothing. Go for the 10 minute walk. That's better than doing nothing. Do the 10 minutes of focused reading. That's better than nothing. Anything above zero compounds in all of these areas of your life. Now, I'm team money on this channel, of course. I talk about money a lot. And I heard you say this, the pursuit of financial wealth can rob you of the others. Yeah. So is this a balancing act? It is a balancing act in a sense. So the way that I characterize it is your wealthy life may be enabled by money, but in the end, it will be defined by everything else. Money isn't nothing. It simply can't be the only thing. What happens and what we don't

have to look far to see is someone who has pursued money at the expense of everything else. They've gotten so focused on the one thing of making more and more money that they've lost sight of all of these other things, these other types of wealth. Again, we don't need to look far to find examples of that. It's the person who made hundreds of millions of dollars. And we pat that person on the back and tell them that they won the game. And we ignore the fact that they have four ex-wives and five kids that don't talk to them. And we tell that, we celebrate that person in our society. And we say that they won the game.

You have to ask yourself in your own life, is that actually a game that I care to win? And if not, then we need to actually act on that insight. We need to be able to build these other types of wealth while we are building financial wealth. And so the way that I normally think about it is sort of alongside like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you will, which is to say that in the early years of your life, money directly buys happiness. There's no question about this scientifically or just in your own life, you know, examples anecdotally that you can find. It allows you to afford, you know, food, shelter, take care of the people around you, basic pleasures, you start to have your first vacations.

Money buys happiness in those days. Once you get beyond that early part of the curve, that linear a relationship that existed between incremental money and incremental happiness no longer holds true. It is these other areas of life that are going to contribute to you living the good life. So it's like a diminishing return on the financial part and you need to lean into the others in order to feel a level of balance. Exactly. The way that I would say it is in the early days, money is the goal because money directly buys happiness. Once you get past that, then diminishing return start, money becomes a tool but no longer the goal.

Money is a tool to accumulate and build these other types of wealth. You can create experiences with people you love. You can invest in your health and your purpose. You can do these other things that contribute to the more comprehensively fulfilling life. That's a luxury for most Americans to even get to the point where money is a tool instead of a goal because they're paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, exactly. And I think with all of these, there are steps you can be taking to not turn off these other areas, even while you are on that paycheck to paycheck cycle. that so many people are wrestling with and trying to get out of,

you still don't want to turn off these other areas of your life. You know, that traditional mentality of like living your life on these on-off switches that you kind of have like, okay, I'm focusing on financial wealth. Why your health suffers? Yeah, and I'm going to turn off these other areas, too bad relationships, too bad health, flip them off. We don't need to live that way. These areas of life can exist on a dimmer switch.

So, like, yes, I'm going to have my dimmer switch turned up in financial wealth while I'm trying to accelerate in that path. But these other areas can just be on low. It's the anything above zero compounds. The tiny thing is still better than nothing. The other thing to recognize, by the way, with this, this idea of five types of wealth is there are a lot of people out there who feel like they are not doing well

based on the traditional singular narrow definition of wealth. I have a classmate from my college days, got a degree at Stanford, obviously very well educated, decided after school that he wanted to move back to his hometown. And he coaches high school sports and he's a gym teacher. By the traditional definition, he's not doing that well. If you were just to look at wealth. Just salary.

Yeah, his salary. He's probably making $40,000-ish thousand dollars a year and he got a Stanford degree. You would say like, oh, it doesn't really make sense. He's not doing that great. But then you look at the bigger picture of his life. He has two beautiful kids. He lives close to both sets of in-laws. They see each other all the time.

He's extremely healthy. He loves what he does. Gets tons of purpose out of working with people, acting in service of others. He's outside all the time. He's got plenty of time because he works from 8 to 4 every day, has all this free time to engage in different activities, spends tons of time with his kids. I would argue, on my definition, this guy is wealthy.

And even if the traditional definition of wealth would say that he's not, and he might feel that way because of what society has told him, he can look at his life in a very different light with this much more comprehensive score. board. And I think that that's an empowering idea for a lot of people out there. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, as you build wealth and we're two recent dads here, how does that change? Because I found that I was sort of like, you're sort of living for yourself naturally when it's just you. Then you get married. And so there's a teammate here. There's a partner involved. Then you have a kid and you're looking at

this baby. You're going, oh my gosh, like now everything's changed. Now it's not just about me and what we're doing. It's how do I set up someone else for a great future and create a great adult? one day. How did that change your view of wealth as you had kids? I would say that that changed everything for me. I spent the first 30 years of my life wondering what the meaning and purpose was of all of this. And then the day my son was born and I held him in my arms for the first time. I felt like it was staring right back at me. And I still get chills thinking about that moment because it really was the moment my whole life changed in that way. I just have felt a sense of clear purpose that at the end of the day, when I think about purpose, people build,

up in their minds that they need to have this like grand or elaborate purpose. Like you've been told by movies or television or by the media that you need to have this like your work needs to be your purpose and you need all these different things to fulfill you and give you purpose. At the end of the day, like my purpose is to provide for my son and my wife. At the end of the day, that's like the highest order purpose that I have is to do that. And that gives me so much clarity in how that how I show up in the world. Because I know at the end of the day, like I need to do what's necessary to make that happen, to take care of those people. My most important, you know, it's like the atomic unit of my purpose. So then when you have a career shift, your purpose hasn't changed.

Her career has, your job has, but your purpose is deeper than just the eight to four thing you do. Yeah, the means to achieve that purpose has changed, but the purpose itself has not. And I think that that's important, too, like for anyone out there that dislikes their job, there's this tendency in modern society to say, like, oh, you should switch jobs because you don't love your or you should, you know, love everything you do. You don't need to love your job. Like, I think that that's a privilege in some sense to love the thing that you're doing every day.

Most people will not get to a point where that's the case. And that's okay. You don't need to actually stress and feel bad about that. What you do need to do is connect the work that you're doing to whatever your higher order purpose is. So, like, I spent time during the book research process with this man who works at a factory. He works, you know, long days, basically putting together widgets on a assembly line. He doesn't like his job, right? Like, there's not a whole lot that he would enjoy about that.

But he defines his purpose as being the father that he never had. He wants to show up for his boys in the way that he didn't feel his dad was there for them. Every day when he goes to work, he views that work as being in service of that purpose of being the father that he never had. So he gets energy every single day to do that job that he doesn't like because it is in service of this higher order purpose. We can all take a lesson from me. We can all take a lesson from. that. If you can connect to something on a higher order while you were doing the job that you might not intrinsically love, that's great. That's very freeing for a lot of people watching out there. I've seen this in the YouTube comments. There's a negative view of having kids, getting married,

working in general. Where do you think that's stemming from? I just think there are a lot of lost young men out there. You've lost your feeling of agency in your own life. Life is happening to you rather than you happening to life. And when you feel lost, you attach yourself to whoever really has the best story, the best thing, the best path for you. That seems attractive. And I think that, you know, a lot of people are attaching to this idea of, you know, the pathway to you being powerful and to having agency is make a ton of money.

And anything that gets in the way of that is, you know, losing sight of the much bigger picture, the important thing. I understand it. I actually get it. why that is an attractive message, but it's losing sight of the much bigger picture of life. It's losing sight of the fact that at the end of the day, again, you are going to build a much more meaningful life by acting in service of others. Over and over again, we found that in happiness science and happiness research.

I know you've had Arthur Brooks on here. Like, acts of service, acting in the service of others is the pathway to living a happy life. Which that's marriage, that's parenting, that's your job. Exactly. Those things, when you show up and when you are connecting, to I am going to create value for other people. That is how you do well. It is not acts of selfishness that lead to happiness.

Selfish people are never happy. Over and over and over again, we find this in our lives. The problem is, I don't think anyone has done a very good job of creating that message of the acts of service to others and of the attractiveness of the path of getting married, having children, as a means to building a fulfilling and happy and high agency. life. There's plenty of people doing a really good job taking pictures in front of private jets with their fancy watches and all the girls that are creating a compelling message for a young man that feels lost. Not a whole lot of people painting a picture of a great life as a husband and father.

We're going to try. We're going to do our best. And it's a big reason that I share a lot about my life, right? Like I feel a sense of responsibility and duty to do that because I think it's important. And I feel very strongly that it is the path to building the good life that we're all looking for. That's beautiful. Well, hey, we've made it. I made it to Dunkin' Donuts for your favorite. And I assume, I don't want to assume, but I'm going to assume that you want a cold brew? Large black cold brew. You know the drill.

Can I get two large black cold brews? That's all. Thank you. Inflation hitting us hard. Ten bucks for two cold brews at Dunkin' Donuts, which no offense. Not exactly high-ford- You keep hitting me with that. They're not back there, you know, in a bucket doing it the...

You keep hitting me with that. I want to know where they're getting it. bunch of these franchises someday. That's what I really want to get into. I would love to own Duncan Donuts. They're very hard to get into because it's an attractive franchise system. Because they're instantly successful. I think they probably make a lot of money up in the Northeast especially. I wonder how this one's doing here in the Nashville area. I don't really know where we are. Aren't we in a pretty nice area? This is frankly across from a lifetime. If you can see a lifetime fitness, you're doing well. Yeah, it's true. Hello. Is this on you? It's on me today. Oh, man,

big spenders. Yeah, well, I wanted to say congratulations for the success of your book and your it's been a fun ride and proud of you. I appreciate it. Every once in a while, I think you deserve a cold brew. I mean, I'm with you on that. I just, I wasn't expecting to get treated such a fancy date. Well, I was out here. Winsel on 7th and a credit card? No, business debit. Can you verify for the people? I'm going to evaluate what this is. That's another funny thing. We're not going to read your, we're not going to read your credit card number. Well, people think like, well, we literally don't have a single credit card in the building. We run it all with debit and cash. There's a little bit of semantics to this whole thing, right?

Because I have credit cards, but my credit cards are used in the exact way that you use a debit card. I pay them off in full every single month. And so that's effectively a debit card. Oh, are we going to go, are we going to do this right now? Do you not agree with that? Why is that different? You're telling everyone, oh, thank you so much. God bless.

Hey, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Look at this. This is sizable. Yeah, these are big. This is a Dunkin' Donut size large. This is $5 worth of coffee. I actually do feel that way, too.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a good one. Oh, man. It just hits different, though. It's fine. Oh, my God, man. You're just...

You're not going to be allowed back in Boston at this point. First of all, no one orders these in Boston. What do you mean? No one orders Dunkin. No one's getting cold brew. They're getting the lattes, the Dunkuccinos, you know? I don't know, dude. Like a...

Maybe not cold brew. A lot of people, like, if you go to Boston in the summer, people are getting Dunkin' Ice Coffee all day. Oh, the ice coffee. By the way, these are so big that you can't tan... It won't even cold. fit in these little baby Tesla. So to your credit card debit card, I studied this in the book.

The thing that I found is, and actually the founder of Wynab, it's a budgeting app, the founder of Wynab switched from credit to debit and found that he spent 18% less. Okay. There's something about it coming out of your account right now. There's something about it hitting from your account now. Your brain says this is my money being used now versus someone else's money. I get to pay back later. I might try it.

Now I'm curious. But for people who are, they are not doing that great finance. who want to argue with me about this, I think it's a huge stepping stone to getting more agency of your money, getting more friction involved. Treat it like cash. Because we are $0 in debit card debt as a nation.

We're $1.2 trillion in credit card debt as a nation. I completely understand that. So I think I'm a glass half-empty kind of guy when it comes to the level of human discipline that is out there. Yeah. So that's my take on it. It's not even glass half-empty if you have data around it either, by the way. Like that's just reality.

It's just like the study show you spend more. Yeah. Most people, you know, over half carry a balance. And so I'm like, you know what, in the predatory nature of credit card companies, the marketing, just the grossness. America loves debt. Yeah. And America runs on Duncan. I think we finally come full circle on this connection here.

Duncan equals debt. That's my connected tissue. Hey, let's take a break for safety's sake and talk about one of the sponsors of today's episode, Laurel Road. They're a great online bank with an incredible high-yield savings account. What makes them incredible? Well, they check off all of my boxes. Number one, they have competitive interest rates so that your money is working harder for you with the power of compound interest. Number two, there's no bogus monthly maintenance fees.

Number three, your deposits are FDIC insured. And lastly, there's no minimum balance required to start an account. So what are you waiting for? Go check them out, start an account today at laurel road.com slash George or click the link in the description below. All right, let's get back on the road with my friend, Sawhill Bloom. I need to go back to this baby thing. Okay. You tweeted this one time and I loved it, that we should be giving.

giving a $10,000 investment account to every newborn baby. I love this idea. Have you thought about the feasibility of this, like how it would actually work? This has actually been now over the last few years, a pet child idea of a number of very successful entrepreneurs and billionaires now. I think most recently, I think I saw like Bill Ackman talking about it and a few other folks who basically point out that this is a... a way to ensure that every American has like an opportunity at financial freedom for a generally

speaking significantly lower cost than a lot of the random government initiatives. Like Social Security. You could eradicate Social Security or eliminate that tax completely out of every paycheck if you had this $10,000 investment account. It is a tiny, tiny fraction of the annual spend that we put towards our defense budget as an example. Like the amount of money that we spend on annually on like, you know, missile stockpiles that are sitting somewhere in a mountain versus what it would cost to do this. Do you endow $10,000 for each child when they're born? And just allow it to sit in the market.

Because it turns into that $10,000, if you never add a dime, turns into what? Millions. Yeah, yeah, millions of dollars by the time they're at retirement age. Obviously, historical returns do not imply future returns. But if you take, like, a long-term historical average return in the market, it's going to double every, every what? Seven years. Yeah.

So it becomes an enormous amount of money. It gives everyone an opportunity. Plus, it's a way that you're putting money into U.S. companies in the market. Oh, that's true. It's actually benefits the economy. Yeah, presumably you're kind of investing it in like a U.S. stock market index or something like that. So it creates some value there as well. All right.

Send that idea to Elon or someone up top who can make it happen. I know that people talk about it now. When I tweeted it, it was kind of like a weird. thing that a bunch of people jumped at, but it's sort of been, it's gone from fringe to like partially fringe, partially mainstream. With the chaos that's happening in the world and in the government right now, I feel, that feels like a reasonable idea. Yeah, well, that's like the Overton window. Have you heard that concept? So there's this idea of the Overton window, which is like the window of acceptable discourse at any one point in time. Um, and the whole idea is

that the Overton window sort of expands and contracts and it can like move left or move right. and it feels like we're in this era of like an enormous Overton window right now because so much stuff has been said on both sides that it's just made like something that seemingly was fringe now feels like a straight down the middle line. Very like balanced idea. We expanded the boundaries of what is extreme. So I wanted to get into a little bit of how you built your wealth.

I know that you are, you know, you've got SRB ventures, SRB holdings. Explain that for idiots like me. What are you actually investing in? Like let's look at 2025, how. were you allocating your dollars? So I am in general, am a believer in kind of a barbell-ish, if you would, investment approach, meaning from a risk spectrum standpoint, I invest on one of two sides of that spectrum. One is very risky things, which would be venture investments. That is like early stage technology companies or my own businesses, which are inherently going to be

risky, like if you're starting your own businesses or startups, or my money goes towards the other end of the spectrum, which would be things that I consider to be on the much safer end, you know, a combination of equities and bonds. So that's like super low cost, tax efficient, index funds, et cetera, on the other end of the spectrum. My whole basis for that is like, I don't want to play in this whole like middle ground of things that everyone tries to get you to invest in once you have some money. What would those be for you? Real estate, multifamily properties, art, wine. There's all sorts of these things.

Yeah, like, you know what happens is like you get to a certain level and all of a sudden all of these opportunities start coming out of the woodwork and like trying to tempt you to invest in them. Like, you know, whatever alternative investment classes that are new real estate, for some reason, once people make a little bit of money, everyone gets convinced that they should own a bunch of real estate. I know nothing about real estate. And I had zero desire to manage any multi-family properties.

And like, you know, I have this idea in the book of return on hassle. And the concept is basically like everyone talks about return on investment, the amount of return that you're generating on the invested capital. But we never talk about return on hassle, meaning in addition to the money that you invested into an investment, you also invested in an amount of time, like the actual energy that you had to put into it. So you have to evaluate the return on both of those, the time and the money that you put in. When it comes to investing in real estate, just as an example, if I can put $100,000 into the S&P 500 in an index fund, there is zero hassle.

Put it in once, I never have to look at it. And if someone else is managing it for me. You just wake up five years from now in a group. It's being managed by Tim Cook and Sundar Peach Eye and like Satya and Adela and like some of the smartest people in the world are managing that money for me. I don't have to do anything. If I put that same $100,000 into a multifamily investment property, if the hot water heater explodes on a Sunday night, I'm getting a phone call. If the tenant doesn't want to pay rent, I'm getting a phone call. There's all sorts of things that are going to lead to me having to put more and more time and energy hassle into this thing.

So when I look at evaluating where I could put that $100,000, I need to factor that in. Because otherwise what happens is people say like, well, I could get a 12% return on this multifamily or an 8% of putting it into the market. So obviously I'm going with the 12. But if you don't factor in the time and energy, then you're making a bad calculation. It's inherently acting with incomplete information for that investment opportunity. So that idea is important. When you're doing that with debt, and Dave Ramsey talks about this on our investing essentials event, he talks about the beta, that no one's factoring in the risk of having it leveraged, the hassle factor involved, so you can't just look at, well, it made 11%. Not to mention the headspace of knowing that, you know, it could all come crashing down.

I understand both sides of these arguments as it relates to debt. I am big on just like the psychological side and where your own natural predisposition is. I can totally understand the idea that like I don't want to feel like I have this burden hanging over my head. And so paying off that debt or never having it in the first place feels good. But like, you know, I just don't have to worry about this. This isn't hanging over my head. Well, as we wrap, I want to cover this because I think it's, It's so tied to the Ramsey ethos, the Ramsey plan when it comes to transformation,

transforming your life, your money, your career, whatever. And here's what you said. You said that our lives are shaped by three factors. The things that you want, the price of those things, and your willingness to pay the price. So when I think about the debt-free journey, we say gazelle intensity, what are you willing to sacrifice to get out of debt in 18 to 24 months? So break that down for us. The way that I would characterize this is that your entire. life will change when you realize you have to sacrifice short-term freedom in order to build

and earn long-term freedom. Sacrifice is the cost of entry. Instant gratification will kill the life of your dreams. And anyone is capable of going out and building that if they are willing to pay the price to achieve that thing. Going in with eyes wide open about what the price is is very, very important because you need to internalize what you are going to have to sacrifice in order to earn that long-term freedom. The problem is that people think that there's an easy way. There's a shortcut. There's a hack. There's a thing. And someone is always willing to sell you that shortcut. There is always someone out there who's going to tell you like, oh, you're doing this the hard way. Here's the easy way for nine payments of 1999 that we can fix this for you. There is no such thing

as a hack or a shortcut to building the life you want. Delayed gratification is the key to the life that you want. You have to do the hard thing now in order to earn the easy thing later. And I've seen that play out with all these, I cover all the traps on my book, breaking free from broke from, you know, debt consolidation and the balance transfers

and the debt settlement companies. And it feels like people are, they're playing the wrong game because they're like, well, if it looks like more work, it's not for me. But a lot of the times, it's going to take that deep sacrifice

of selling stuff, getting a second or third job, increasing your income, decreasing expenses, cutting out all the fluff. And most people just aren't willing to sacrifice those things for 18 to 24 months to get to long-term freedom. Yeah, and those things that people are trying to do and sell, it's always one of those, oh, this feels too good to be true solutions. And anytime something feels too good to be true, it probably is.

And you should probably run in the other direction. The reality is that the boring basics are what work. Grow your income over time, manage your expenses so that they don't grow alongside your income, the gap into things that compound. If you do that, you will build a life of financial independence. It's not going to be fun at all times, especially if you're trying to work your way out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle. It's going to take extreme discipline and be very challenging and painful. But again, you have to view that pain as the cost of entry to build the thing that you want on the other side. And I really do believe that everyone is capable of doing that. No matter what your starting point is,

no matter where you are today, you are one good decision away, one point. One person. problem solved away from being in a slightly better place tomorrow. And the momentum from that one good decision can fundamentally change your life. Beautifully said. Gosh, everyone needs to go get his book. Five types of wealth. It's incredible. I think it's a must read for anyone who wants to grow.

Anyone watching this channel, this is the book for you that's going to help you not just with your financial wealth, but with the other types that he talks about as well. So, it's so fun to hang out with you, man. Thanks for hanging. Cheers, man. Cheers to Duncan. The best coffee in the world. And if you've got a franchise, you want to sell.

Get him. Get in touch. Hope you guys enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Big thanks to Sawhill Bloom for joining me today. I told you, he's the best in the business. And if you enjoyed this conversation, you're going to love this one I had with Humphrey Yang and Dispreet Singh from Minority Mindset. It's coming up next or click the link in the description below.

Drive safe. We'll see you next time. Hey, real quick before you go, we just launched an audience survey, and it would mean the world if you could take the time to fill it out. It's going to help us make more content to help you get better with money. It's in the link in the description below.