Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 110. Amy Heckerling

Episode Date: July 4, 2016

Writer-director Amy Heckerling ("Clueless," "Fast Times at Ridgemont High") drops by the studio to chat about a wide range of compelling topics, including: the double standard of onscreen nudity, the educational benefits of the "Million Dollar Movie," the blandness of romantic comedies and the genius of Slavko Vorkapich. Also, Amy sparks to James Cagney, salutes Mort Drucker, "studies" with Terry Southern and finds inspiration in "Ed Wood." PLUS: Ray Walston! "Jaws 2!" Praising Cameron Crowe! The mystery of Martin Brest! And Gilbert dances with John Travolta! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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betting. Download today. 19+. Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca. Don't forget to follow us on our Facebook page. Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast, on Twitter at RealGilbertACP, and on Instagram, GilbertPodfried.

You see, it's kind of a pun on the last name. Yeah, skip it. of a pun on the last name. Yeah, skip it. Also, visit our terrific new website, gilbertpodcast.com, for the latest news, episodes, synopsis, behind-the-scenes photos, and videos, and other cool stuff. And if you like the show and you know you do, please rate and review us on iTunes. Can't you see we're star perfection? For the love of God! Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg Post with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is a celebrated writer, producer, and director of popular films such as Look Who's Talking, Look Who's Talking 2, Johnny Dangerously, Loser, National Lampoon's European Vacation, and of course the iconic and much-admired classics Clueless and Fast Times at Ridgemont High. She's also written and directed for television with credits that include The Carrie Diaries, Gossip Girl, The Office, Baby Talk, and the spin-off series Fast Time based on a 1982 movie. In her four decades in show business, she's worked with an impressive roster of talented performers, including Sean Penn, John Travolta, Michelle Pfeiffer, Michael Keaton, Danny DeVito, Paul Rudd, Jennifer Jason Leigh, George Segal, Will Ferrell, Bruce Willis, and most importantly, me. And if all that isn't enough to impress, she also shares our appreciation for the single greatest film ever committed to celluloid, Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Please welcome to the podcast

a witty and talented filmmaker and a woman who claims her two most vivid childhood memories include James Cagney and Speedy, the Alka-Seltzer mascot, my old friend Amy Heckerling. I don't know where you heard all that, but yes, it's all true. And John Travolta and Gilbert had a dancing scene in Look Who's Talking To. Really? And I'm pretty sure that John Travolta said that Gilbert was his favorite partner of all time. So you're starting the show with a lie. Yeah.

He taught me a very simple dance step. So the dance step I do, and look who's talking to, was taught to me by John Travolta. Wow. Well, you know, it's like he's also a choreographer. Well, you know, it's like he's also a choreographer. Now, this is the most important thing I should get to first. I actually just yesterday met Phoebe Cate's son, who's an adult.

Oh, Owen. Wow. Yeah. Owen Klein. And, you know, it. He's a filmmaker. Yeah. He's a budding filmmaker. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Owen Klein. And, you know, it- He was a filmmaker. Yeah. He was a budding filmmaker. Yeah.

Wow. Cool. And I'm standing there going, you know, I jerked off to pictures of your mother. You said that to him? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how many times I whacked off to your mother. And now, she didn't want to show her tits this is fast times at richmond high starting

right off huh gil okay here we go um well ramp here it's true because this is where i get a lot of grief from like you know feminists and people that want to say that women should be all empowered and stuff but really i'm very. I was out for myself. I wanted a career. I wanted that movie to do well. I wanted girls to like it, but I wanted boys to like it. And I knew what boys would like. And that was in the script.

And she agreed to do the script. And she signed the contract. And so she tried to enlist me in her cause of like it's not really that important. We kind of know what the scene's about and it would be okay if she opened her bra a little bit early so that by the time you saw anything, it was blocked by Judge Reinhold. And I said no. No, no. Here's the mark where you open it. That's where you got to do it, right there.

And then he comes here and you'll be blocked. But no, it's got mark where you open it. That's where you got to do it, right there. And then he comes here and you'll be blocked. But no, it's got to happen on that mark. And then she thought she saw that people are in the building next door, were on the roof looking at her. Or she wanted a closed set. It was a closed set. I don't think there were people. People were sent to make sure nobody was anywhere. don't think there were people. People were sent to make sure nobody was anywhere. But the producer who was a great, great producer, Art Linson, who also did The Untouchables, and he was there and he

backed me up that, no, this was something that she agreed to and she got the part and signed the contract and that was that. And so all other women can hate me, but people watch that movie. And years later, I went to a video store. And the guy told me that they had a lot of problems with the videotape before DVDs because it was always breaking at that point. People were pausing it. It was paused too many times. Were you in a video store in Gilbert's neighborhood? Of course, I mean, her tits in Fast Times.

They were beautiful. Yeah. Oh, incredible. Perfect. Exquisite looking woman. She's got an amazing body. It was like the sled in Citizen Kane. Her tits in Fast Times.

They were amazing. They answer all questions at the end. And did you run into problems when you tried to include male nudity in Fast Times? Yeah. Well, having grown up where there was like this sexual revolution that I had heard about. And apparently there was nudity in movies. And by the time I was old enough to see the movies, I saw that there was women were naked, like in all these foreign films and full frontal females, but you never saw any men. And in American movies, forget about it,

because there wasn't like naked people in movies. But I thought, well, I'm a female director and I can change that. I can have some equality. I can have, you know, naked woman and naked men and that would be fair. And so we shot a scene where Bobby Romanis is going to have sex, and they're both very awkward, and they take off their clothes, and you saw from mid-thigh up, you saw everything. And the censors said, you can't do that. You can't show the male organ.

And I said, well, why not? You could show full frontal females, and they go, that's because the male organ is aggressive. And the female organ isn't. And it's like, well, that's not fair. And isn't it like organ to organ? Like some are aggressive, some are kind of shy. But they said, no, you can't show that, but I was told that if anybody wanted to fight that in Washington with the censors, they could go there.

And the person that that would fall to was the post-production executive, Verna Fields. Now, Verna at the time was amazing. She cut jaws. Oh, yeah. She is responsible for all the great directors now because she was the brilliant editor. And she was sick at the time and she had cancer. And I couldn't say, hey, I want to show a dick. Would you fly over to Washington and fight for me?

I mean, it was hard for her to get up the stairs to the cutting room. So I couldn't do that. So we blew up the shot and there's nothing there. It's all okay. But see, here's something. Here's the only argument I can have. Is you see full frontal female nudity, but really very little in the way of vaginas.

This is true. You have a good point. That's an excellent insight. You see vaginas more in these celebrity actresses, actresses and singers getting out of a car. In recent times, yes. actresses and singers getting out of a car. In recent times, yes. But in the 70s when there was like WR, Mysteries of the Orgasm,

or I Am Curious Yellow, or the foreign films, you saw the Europeans. Emmanuel and that kind of stuff. Yeah, full frontal naked women running around. You have to see these movies. Yeah. Those were always like the Emmanuel movies bored the shit out

of me. Well, those were like porn movies. The ones that were considered artistic. Man and a Woman. I don't remember. I just remember the Windshield Wipers. I remember I Am Curious Yellow was a big controversy. See, now Fast Times came out right in the midst of a great

time for movie nudity, like the 80s. Well, it was just as the, like, door was shutting because it was like Reagan and the just say no and sort of closing the door on all the sex and drugs. And we sort of, like, slipped under as the garage door was closing. And I think things changed a lot after that. And for a long time, I think there was no R-rated youth movies until Judd Apatow came along. You know what I noticed? The first time I noticed the change, I went to some like slasher film on 42nd Street. And I'm watching the slasher film, and I'm going, first of all, where are the tits?

There's no tits here. The girl's getting into the shower, but we're not seeing anything. And the guy would come after her with a knife, and you wouldn't see the knife go in, the blood squirting. You felt cheated, huh? Yeah. Yeah. There was some major editing going on. Yeah.

There was. Things got very tame quickly. And there was, you know, I mean, Reagan was the president. There was a big conservative backlash. And the rating board got very hard-assed for a long time. And then I would see movies like recently, more recently, like Borat. And you'd see dicks flying all around the place. You'd see.

And you'd go like, wait a minute. I thought you couldn't show that. And everybody said, well, no, you can, but they can't be for sex. They could just be, you know, incidental. Your favorite, Gil. Incidental nudity. I do. That's my favorite kind of.

There's a thing that a friend of mine nicknamed Gilbert nudity. We had Mr. Skin on the show. You know Mr. Skin? No. Oh, he runs the movie Nudity website. He's a connoisseur. Oh, is he the one that tells you exactly where? Yes.

That's the guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. So Gilbert Nudity to me is like a naked girl doing her taxes. You know, that's it. I don't need the sex scene. Yeah. He likes it casual. Yeah. I have a friend the sex scene. Yeah. He likes it casual. Yeah.

I have a friend and I will tell him, okay, if you're watching my movie, when it cuts to all the girls like doing this, six seconds in, somebody falls and she's not wearing underwear, you'll see something. But nobody noticed it. But I could tell my friend. Now, but do women who go to movies actually want to see actors' dicks? You know, I don't know. I mean, I'm not somebody that wants to see like a lot of nudity. I mean, I think it works more for comedy than for turning people on. You know, I think if you're actually going to be nude in a situation with someone, there's a lot of lighting that's got to go on. And if you have a smoke machine, maybe that could help.

But as far as in a film, no, I don't think people, women go like, oh, boy, you see so-and-so's dick. But you know what? I'm not a normal female because I like a lot of females will like, they'll like a guy because he's got big muscles. And I find that like, who cares? That's for stupid people, muscles. That's, you know, they'll like want to see somebody take their shirt off some guy. And I'll go, no, I like shirts with ties especially. But no, like not guys taking their shirts off so you see a six pack.

Who gives a fuck? So you're not the best judge for the question. It seems like nudity in movies, if it's a girl naked, it's sexual. If it's a guy naked, it's funny. Yeah. You know, like Will Ferrell was always. That sounds like how Borat got away with it. Yeah.

It wasn't lascivious. It was just funny. It was comic relief. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I think it's funny if you have the right attitude. There's even now guys that are sort of handsome that are funny being like less clothed because they're making fun of the idea of it like you know sort of funny himbos oh like the guy in uh forgetting sarah marshall yeah yeah i

mean and i'm forgetting his name as long as they're like got the right attitude of like isn't it silly how vain this makes me um it could be funny but it's not something where you know you see so and so take their shirt off and you go, whoa. That's like, I don't know. Tell us about some of the battles on Fast Time. Because I watched the director's commentary with you and Cameron. One of the nice things about it is your nice chemistry and how fond you obviously are of each other and how much you enjoyed working together. I love Cameron.

I wanted to hear. I wish they had made more movies together because I just want to go on listening to director's commentaries. I love Cameron. I wanted to hear. I wish they had made more movies together because I just want to go on listening to directors' commentaries. Oh, I'm up for that. I mean, I think he's so brilliant. He's such an amazing writer. He's an amazing director. Because he's just such a human and he's got such a great sense of comedy. But his heart, it's really, that's it. That's why he's great. I'm a fan of his movies and his billy wilder book yeah yeah but mike mcpadden is here our social media director who's who's obsessed with fast times at ridgemont heist so i gotta i gotta ask you a couple of questions about it before we move

on and i heard this stuff in the director's commentary did not know david lynch was considered to direct the the cameron script which blows mind. I didn't know that either. You guys said it. Wait, I said it? On the commentary. Because somebody told me about it, and I was like, I had not known that for decades. I didn't know that. Interesting. Or that they were so worried, the studio was so worried at some point that you were delivering

the wrong kind of teen comedy that they sent John Landis to the set. John Landis came to the set yeah and you know I thought I had met him a couple of times and I thought he was just being friendly um and we were right there you know on the sound stages right by everybody's offices but apparently years later he told me um that they thought the movie was too depressing and it wasn't going to be a wacky teen comedy. And so they sent him to the set and he was just being really friendly. And then apparently he told me that he told them like, you know, it's fine, leave her alone. And, you know, so I can understand the problem because when we started shooting the movie, we started in the house, which was the Jennifer Jason Leigh stuff, which was like all her

aggravation of getting pregnant, of Damone not calling her, sad things are happening. And that was all in the beginning. And then later on, we went to the school in the mall where more of the fun stuff happens. And then later on, we went to the school in the mall where more of the fun stuff happens. So they probably saw, you know, a girl waiting for a guy not giving her a ride to an abortion and said, this is not a movie we want to make. It was in the script. And they should understand that there's a schedule and you're shooting the things in, you know, in whatever order you worked out. But they were afraid that it was going to be too depressing.

Were they looking for a Porky's kind of a thing? Were they looking for just a pure teen escapist? I mean, because the movie delivers plenty of laughs. There's comedy. Sean Penn's great. Yeah. I mean, what I loved about Cameron's script and his book was that it was just so real. All those kids, you know that they were based on real people, but beyond that, he had, you know, feeling for them. And that comes through in the script and hopefully in the movie. But, you know, I don't, I was going for laughs that would work with what was happening in other places, not like crazy stuff. I mean there was a thing where Ratner sits with Jennifer Jason Leigh and he's too awkward. They start to kiss but he gets up.

And the studio saw that scene and they were like, uh-oh, we have to reshoot this. The studio saw that scene and they were like, uh-oh, we have to reshoot this. And we want it to be that they kind of get into a pretzel-like shape and they're caught and it was like make it crazy, weird thing that physicalized the like, you know, that they get into a mess. It's weird. It's like they almost – they don't understand the source material. Yeah. And so I was there and we were going to start to shoot something and I didn't know how I was going to do it because it wasn't what was in my head. And then I got on the set and threw up practically on Jennifer because the script woman had the flu and I was feeling kind of crummy

and then it just, between the aggravation and the flu coming on, it just went, and so they sent me home and Art Linson shot a version. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that because I don't care. It's on the commentary. Okay. It's already out there. Because I don't want if I'm allowed to say that because it's on commentary. Okay. I don't want

anybody in trouble at the studio. And ultimately, you know, they liked it the other way. So put that in. What I remember about Fast Times that sort of separated it from the regular, separated it from the regular basically USA up all night, it's a mass teen comedies, was that there's that one speech that Judge Reinhold gives where like they're saying, ah, you know, you're a teenager, you're out having fun, getting laid, and he's not doing any of that. Yeah, when he talks to his guidance counselor. And it's like, you know, it's like, well, I'm just still waiting for the fun to start.

And when everybody's like saying it's your last year, you're at the top of the world, the best years of your life. And he's like, oh, and you know what? I get up at 6 a.m. I go to Mighty Mart. I go to school. I go back to, you know. And he has a way of like getting really worked up and his voice cracks cracks and he was, you know, he's good at getting really mad. And tell us about all the people who are complete unknowns in Fast Times. Well, him for one.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, they were all unknowns. Yeah. And there were a few people that came in that were more known or going to be more known. One person that I really liked was Scott Bio for Damone. And another person that came in, he didn't read, he came in with his people, was Ralph Macchio to play Ratner. But Art Linson said, you know what? It's going to make the balance uneven.

You know, you're going to have this guy with a big trailer and all the other people in the, you know. Also, wouldn't it hurt the story to see unknown faces and then somebody you recognize from other movies?

I don't know, because actors are supposed to play parts. You're not supposed to go, wait a minute, there's Superman. I mean, you know, I think you'd get over that, but he felt like we should have an even playing field.

So we went with that. And, you know, I still love those guys and I like them in other things, but we kind of like said we'll find people. Nicholas Cage. It was Forrest Whitaker. Yeah, Forrest Whitaker, Nick Cage. Yeah, Forrest. I love Forrest. He was amazing.

And I wish that there was a lot, lot more for him to be doing in that movie. There's plenty of him since then and things. And, you know, we had all the buds were, you know, Eric Stoltz. Stoltz, right. Yeah. And Nicolas Cage and just everybody that was like, okay, you'll have two friends. You know, surfer bud number one, surfer bud number two. Fast food bud number one, fast food bud number two.

But we gave them names because, you know, they're characters and people. But those were amazing people out there at that time. We have to ask you about Ray Walston. Yeah. And I love from the director's commentary, and I'd heard this somewhere before, that his acting style and Sean Penn's acting style clashed a bit. Safe to say? You could say that, although I mean I think both Sean and Ray were capable of doing all sorts of things. Both Sean and Ray were capable of doing all sorts of things.

I mean, certainly the character he played in Mice and Men and the character he played in The Apartment and in South Pacific. Those, you know, those were all you could be musical comedy. You could be on stage. You could be in a film. You could be in a realistic film, a sad film, a happy film. I mean, he could do anything, as could Sean. But the way they worked was very different. That's what I meant. I didn't mean acting styles. I meant acting processes. Yeah. Ray Walston liked to sort of ride his bike around. He wore these glasses that were

like opaque so he could just like, you know, shut out the world and think about what he was doing and concentrate. And he would know all his lines really well. And then he was ready to go and he knew what he wanted to do. And Sean decided it would be a fun idea to like change all his off-screen dialogue and totally insult him. And, you know, Ray Walston came up to me in between and he goes you tell that young man i do not appreciate that i know what i'm doing you know and it's like okay but you know sean sean does what sean does and it works now i heard getting back to my favorite topic i I heard Jennifer Jason Leigh is one of those actresses that, as opposed to Phoebe giving you trouble showing your tits, she wouldn't give anybody trouble taking her

clothes off. At the time, I can't say what it's like now, but at the time she was very comfortable. It's like now. But at the time, she was very comfortable. She had no problem at all. And I remember that the producer was a little worried, like, okay, after the Phoebe situation, maybe we should have a body double just in case there's any problem. So we got one, but she never knew about this. And there was like less than no trouble.

She was completely comfortable and happy. Interesting. They both come from showbiz families. Yeah. Vic Morrow is her dad and what, Joe Cates? Phoebe Cates' father? Is that Joe Cates or Gil Cates? Joe Cates or Gil Cates. I can't remember.

Yeah, her father's Joe, the uncle's Gil. Uncle was Gil, the director. While we wait for Gilbert to find the men's room, we promise we'll come back to the show after a word from our sponsor. Don't go away. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again.

All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. And now back to the show. So you grew up in the Bronx. Yes. And now back to the show. So you grew up in the Bronx. Yes. You're a local kid like us.

And doing a little research on you and finding out that you, getting back to the introduction about Cagney, you want to explain the Cagney thing and the Speedy Alka-Seltzer thing real quick so our viewers aren't confused by that? Our viewers, our listeners. Well, I mean, you know, you have a kid and you put it in a play pen and you put the TV on and that's how they grow up. And I really responded to James Cagney, I mean, from way before kindergarten, just because of his energy. He was like a cartoon character. of his energy. He was like a cartoon character. He was like somebody that you just see him do stuff.

If you're a little kid, he'd come in, he'd like smack a guy around and you'd just like crack up because it was funny. It was so energetic and crazy. And Speedy Alka-Seltzer, the other one I mentioned, was, I just like the look, you know, the big head and the little hat. I mean, you know, it's like somebody that's in a playpen. Oddly enough, I have a grandchild now who's like one and a half. And, you know, there's like slats on a staircase. And so we hold the slats and I go, let me out of here, you screws. And she does it too. She can't talk yet, but she battles. And we pretend we're in prison and, you know, we goof around. That's our game. What else did you watch? We asked this of a lot of our guests.

You watched cartoons. I read you said you were a latchkey kid. Yeah. I'd come home and one thing Gilbert talked about with other guests was in New York there was a million-dollar movie. I love that you did your research and listened to other episodes. That's so rare. Well, that freaked me out because there were so many similarities. But Million Dollar Movie, and I talked about this with other New York directors.

It's like you'd come home. It was on every night at a reasonable time, like 7 or something. A kid could watch it. And every day the same movie was on. So by the end of the week, you know, if it was Godzilla, you knew all the shots. If it was Jolson Sings Again, you knew it. And then on the weekend, they'd show it a few times a day on Saturday and Sunday. Well, I mean, when Yankee Doodle Dandy was on, you know, forget it.

I was just in for the weekend. There was no taking me to the park or the grocery store or anything. I was just like, no. I remember I've always said that when I was growing up, the greatest film school in the country was in your living room. Yeah. Because it was just old films that were probably not even that old. Well, you had to deal with the commercials, but that aside. Oh, yeah.

You really got to see them dozens of times. One channel had the monster movies. The other, the gangster films. The other's musicals. Yeah. And you just watched them over and over, which is the best thing to do. And this was before you could rent a video and before DVDs and before streaming. So if you really loved movies, that was what you did.

And then the next big jump ahead for me was like when you had DVR and you could go fast forward and backward because you could say, OK, how many times did he turn his head when Mrs. Robinson came in? Because it's like weird. And you go, yeah, they repeated that shot. And he's turning his head and turning his head when Mrs. Robinson came in? Because it's like weird. And you go, yeah, they repeated that shot. And he's turning his head and turning his head a bunch of times. And you could count it and you question slow motion. And you could really study and see how things were made and see the seams. And, you know, that's a great thing. So you love Roaring Twenties and Angels with Dirty Faces. And you just watch that stuff over and over again. Yeah. I want to talk about Vorkopics now.

The witch? Vorkopics. You bring it back film school here, Amy. Yeah. No. Most people in film school don't know about this. In the Roaring 20s, there's the depression hits. And the money is building up and building up and building up

and the people are buying stuff and then it it blows up and all the papers are going all over the people in wall street and all the close-ups of different angles of the people looking all upset and the stock market blows up and the what is the glass thing that the ticket tape was in oh yeah i know what you mean. Okay. All of that stuff was done by this little Russian guy, Vorkopich. In fact, they used to call montages Vorkopiches. Slavko Vorkopich?

Wasn't that his name? Yes. And he did that stuff in the Roaring Twenties when when you see the prohibition starting and all the bottles and all the gangsters and all the shootouts and the way it was all meshed together and the legs going one way and the bottles going around and the, you know, beautiful, amazing geometric movement. And so I love that stuff. Well, when I went to AFI, he came and taught a course. Wow.

Yeah. And the first day, the place was packed. And a few lessons in, it was just like me and Stuart Kornfeld. It was just like everybody was like, duh. But that was just the best way of seeing how movies are put together and what you can do. And people always make fun of like, oh, yeah, newspapers and a train and that's how you go on tour. Yeah, we were talking about that with Donnie. Awkward time-lapse devices. It's awkward when you've seen it imitated 20 times.

The first time you saw it and, you know, and it told you how it was on the road and how many places somebody went in, you know, 30 seconds, you know, or how somebody could be going crazy and what kind of images they're seeing in their dreams and all of that you go wow that's amazing and that's very efficient storytelling and yeah when lesser people do it it's totally cheesy so he showed up was a big deal and and and then only the hardcore people were stuck around for the end. Yeah, because he would take Potemkin and show you where some shots were facing the wrong way and recut it. And you'd go, wow. Or he'd have a bunch of shots of balls rolling one way, rolling another way. And when they're cut one way, it makes sense and it connects. When they're cut another way, it doesn't.

And that's the basis of any kind of cutting that's going to work or not work. You could do it with just rolling balls, and then you know where a match cut should be. But the first day he was there, and he was like a little guy. Did you ever hear of him, Gilbert? Oh, yeah. Battleship. Wait a minute.

Well, that was Eisenstein. That was Eisenstein. I'm thinking of Battleship Potemkin like a fucking idiot. But anyhow, he's this tiny little old, old, old guy. Yeah. And he's got one of those Steve Martin arrows through his head. And it's so adorable. And he's saying, now, what do you see? You think you see an arrow going through his head. And it's so adorable. And he's saying, now, what do you see? You think

you see an arrow going through my head because the eye will put things together in a certain way. And that's what we're going to learn. Interesting. Yeah. I haven't heard that name since I went to SVA in the 80s for film. And I studied with a film critic named Amy Taubin. And she educated us. I haven't heard that name since 1984. It's amazing that I remembered his first name. The funny thing about film, and I mean, even like you think of Godzilla. Yeah. It's the whole point of your brain trying to make sense of it.

Right. Yeah. So if you put someone in front of a little building, you go, well, he must be gigantic. Yeah. Because buildings are big. And if you put some people looking up screaming, then you assume that those people are looking up at that.

And then you can make a scary monster movie. Now, before we forget, let's get to the time. You invited me to your house for dinner. Oh, I was wondering when I was going to get around to that. If there's an objectionable part, we can always take it out. Well, okay. So Gilbert said, you know, he just got to town. You guys befriended each other after you made the movie together?

Was that how you first met? Or did you know each other? I think I knew you before that. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, yeah, before that. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, yeah, before that, because I wanted to put him in it. I wanted to put you in Clueless. Yeah.

And Scott Rudin said, the driving tester. Oh. And Scott Rudin said, why don't you put him in one of your other films? Yeah, he doesn't like me. That bastard. Yeah. He doesn't like me, Scott Burden. But he taught me everything I know about pussy.

Which is, you know, basically that was the whole, you know, I said, well, I'm making dinner already. And, you know, he goes, what's for dinner? I'm making rice and some vegetables. Why? What do you like on rice? He goes, what's for dinner? I'm making rice and some vegetables. Why? What do you like on rice? He goes, pussy. I go, all right, well, I'm making rice with vegetables. You can come over if you want.

And he goes, well, how will I get there? Because they didn't rent you a car or anything. No. So he said, get a cab. Then he gets depressed. And he said, get a cab. I'll pay for it when it gets here. I don't want to pay for a cab.

And then there's the whole feud with my daughter's babysitter. Yeah. Barbara. Her babysitter came to pick me up who was she's her parents were both in concentration camps which she thinks is Gilbert's fault so she's going you know my father was 80 pounds when he got out of Auschwitz and he's going that's a great diet how do you get on a diet and he just said anything in the world to upset her she would be laughing and then yelling at him

because I remember we were driving in the car and I was just you know ready to have a free dinner that's all I cared and without even uh, it may rain later or anything like that, she goes, my parents were in the camps. And I said, oh, was it a camp that had, like, folk singing and arts and crafts? And she goes, you son of a bitch. No, it was a camp. And I remember I used to be on the phone with her,

and Molly, your daughter Molly, was like about one or something, and I would say, can you put Molly on the phone and she'd go okay and I'd get on the phone and go what are you wearing Molly are you wearing a diaper would you like me to put some powder on your ass

and she goes don't say that to that girl that's so horrible and I said I'm really really sorry Barbara can I go on and apologize Don't say that to that girl. That's so horrible. And I said, I'm really, really sorry, Barbara. Can I go on and apologize? And she'd put me back on. And I'd go, Molly, I'd really like to spank you. She'd go, you son of a bitch.

Why'd you say that? Yeah. I mean, actually, she would call in when Gilbert was on. Right. I know about this. And start yelling at him. You guys have interesting history. One time calling your house and she answered.

And I think for some reason, I don't think we sound at all alike. But she said, oh, Vali, how are you? And I think she thought it was Wallace Shawn. That could be. I mean, because, you know, with her accent, she probably, you know, New York Americans probably all sound similar. You know, New York Americans probably all sound similar. So I started to talk to her, pretending I was Wallace Shawn and saying, yeah, I'm in town. I'm shooting a movie. I'm working on an off-Broadway play.

And then after talking to her the longest time, I'd say, I said to her, so did you ever blow a Nazi commandant? And she yelled out I'll rip your fucking dick off! Sounds like Ilsa the She-Wolf. Yes! Oh, is that that pornographic Nazi movie? Oh, who was Ilsa? I'm trying to remember now. Diane Thorne.

Diane Thorne. That was like a porn movie in a concentration camp that looked like Hogan's Hero Cell. Yes. Very strange. Yeah. Very weird. And, you know, just like that garish 1970s colors and, you know, big breasts coming out of her Nazi SS uniform. I remember, yeah, on every time I'd be on 42nd Street, there'd be an Ilsa movie playing.

Oh, God. That's sick stuff. All kinds of stuff to ask you about here. And then there was, I thought, remember they did one artsy film that wasn't Ilsa that was like the Night Porter? Oh, the one with Dirk Bogart. Oh, yeah. The Night Porter. And what's her face from Georgie Girl? Oh, gosh.

Charlotte Rampling. Charlotte Rampling, right. And she's wearing suspenders. I was going to say Lynn Redgrave. Georgie Girl. You threw me. I was like, wait a minute. And Burt Backer acted the music.

Yeah, Charlotte Rampling, right. I remember the poster. It was a very sexy poster. It was like suspenders with no shirt and the Nazi hat. The Nazi biker cap. What was the deal? Was it about Stockholm Syndrome or something? I never saw it.

I remember the ad. I think he was a Nazi and she was an inmate of a camp. But they had a relationship. Yes. In a sick sort of – Yeah. A lot of S&M stuff. I think some of the biggest selling S&M costume items are Nazi women, you know.

I buy them. You buy them for all your friends. Can we ask you about some of the actors, some of the great character actors that you worked with on Johnny Dangerously? Okay, but some of them didn't play Nazis. We just want to talk about Sig Ruman. I'm happy to talk about Sig Ruman. You worked with Alan Hale Jr. on Johnny Dangerously. Yeah, but that was just like two shots, you know.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, and it was, you know, it was very – he was kind of old then. But he was a sweet guy. What about Deluise? What about Don Deluise? Don Deluise, that was another thing. It was two shots. He was sort of part of the gang of the producer and the other 20th Century Fox comedies that they insisted. we want X amount of names and here's one that you're going to put in somewhere.

It's got a great cast, that movie. It had a fun cast, yeah. And was it based on the Clark Gable movie, on Manhattan Melodrama? No. Is there a movie that they took a plot from? Well, there's – I didn't know that. It's a little it's a little

like that plot I mean there's always like you know the brother where one goes good and one goes bad and that's a lot of gangster movies

sure sure yeah I mean Keaton's great in it it's just it's such a fun film and the running gag with Ray Walston

and everybody's favorite Joe Piscopo and Mary Lou Henner and Maureen Stapleton. Now, I heard you wanted someone else for the Piscopo part. Well, I had a different kind of movie in my head. And so I wasn't thinking like the studio of like we see ten comedy names, five on this side of the poster and five on that side of the poster. And that's like how they saw the movie. And thought okay so really evil bad guy um who's so evil it'll be funny and i

thought james woods uh-huh and they said no you can't put james woods in a comedy i thought sure you could but it was very funny yeah no they wantediscopo. Well, like the studio, I think originally they wanted when they were making Airplane to pack it with comedians. Yeah. I could see that. Oh, yeah. Well, I just saw Letterman auditioning for the Robert Hayes part. Oh, wow. Really?

It's circulating on the web. Yeah, I'll send it to you. Oh, wow. It's bizarro. Yeah. And it would have been the whole point of it would have been gone. Of course. Well, they were parroting Zero Hour.

Yeah. So they had to get those kind of actors. Yeah. The Robert Stacks. But they don't get that because, especially because once It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World came out, that seemed to be the formula. Like, you'll get the Three Stooges and buster keaton and dick shawn and you know you get all the people from every decade and and how many of those movies really worked out how many of those all-star comedy we're just gonna talk we're gonna talk about them in a little mini

episode with with mike afterward you could talk to us if you want to stay we're gonna talk about scavenger hunt and all of these other movies is And the rat race. Is there a movie called Scavenger Hunt? Yeah, with Tony Randall. That was made by hefty bags. No, that was Million Dollar Mystery. That was Million Dollar Mystery. There were these cheapo knockoffs of It's a Mad, Mad World. Well, the rat race. Rat race.

Yeah. Sure, with Whoopi and Cleese. There were a bunch of them. But his name was funny and that's John Lovitz. The one kind of good one. The Barbie Museum. Rowan Atkinson's funny, too. We went to the Barbie Museum, but it kind of good one. The Barbie Museum. That was hilarious. We went to the Barbie Museum, but it was Klaus Barbie.

Oh, yes. The one kind of good one was Who's Minding the Mint? I never saw that one. That had Milton Berle and Jack Guilford and Victor Bono. Yeah, they figure let's get all of them together and that should be something. Yeah. I like The Great Race. I mean it's uneven.

It's not exactly an all-star cast. But it's got Keenan Wynn and Jack Lemmon and Falk and Tony Curtis. You can't go wrong with those guys. Natalie Wood. It's bloated but it's funny. It's funny. It's a better movie than it's Mad, Mad, Mad World. Mad, Mad World.

Tony Curtis with his teeth glinting. Oh, yeah, Blake Edwards. My kid loved that. Molly, when she was a little kid, she loved that movie. She watched it over and over. Me too. Revisit it. Yeah, well, no, I don't have to. I've seen it a million times.

But for a kid, it was a funny movie. Yeah. Mad, Mad World is one of those movies I advise everyone to see it, but it's really not that good for the most part. Yeah, because you're kind of going, and this is, I guess, what the studio's counting on, because it's much harder to write and make a good story. As you're watching it, you're going, I wonder who'll be in it next. Oh, yes, yes. So you get lost. Yeah, and if you're a little kid, you go, oh, the Three Stooges.

Oh, that silent guy. Oh, this guy. You know, and that's exciting and fun. But that doesn't mean that it all holds together. And I get the impression that when they were making Mad, Mad World, there were probably about ten directors working on it. Huh. Wait, who directed that?

Stanley Kramer. Yeah. Wow. Who's known for his wacky sense of humor. The man who made Judgment at Nuremberg. Whoa. Yeah. And The Defiant Ones.

Which was like the opposite. Let's get a shitload of serious guys. Right. And Spencer Tracy will be the common. Right. Speaking of bad movies, I love this that I found in my research. Ed Wood was kind of indirectly inspired Cher's character in Clueless. You didn't call that a bad movie, did you?

What's that? Ed Wood? No, a maker of bad movies. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because I love that movie. No, I love it. We've had Scott and Larry here.

That was a great movie. Yes, I adore that one. The character was inspiring because, I mean, you know, he's like kind of enlightened in a way. It's like he's creating and he's having fun and he's got these friends that would work with him and love him. And he's made this life. And if you look at it from another place, you could go, ha-ha, what a loser. His movies stink. But if you're him and you go, he's having the perfect life. It's wonderful because he chose to look at things positively.

And that blows my mind because I could never do that. I mean, the idea that, like, you know, when you rewrite a script, it gets better and better. And you just think like, yeah, it's really hard. And how do you know it's not getting worse? But no, he's rewriting it. So it's better and better. And then, you know, you want one for safety? What for?

It was perfect. I mean, just to go around being that positive. I hope he was really like that because it's one of the charming aspects of Ed Wood, the movie. It's one of the most charming characters I can imagine. He was a glass half full kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun performance and a wonderful character.

And so that kind of inspired you. You were what, coming off the vacation movie? And you didn't know what you wanted to do next? I don't know what i was coming off of but uh you know i was not happy and i was trying to think like everybody's pushing me to do this and that and i worked really hard on a script and they were going that's too smart and i think you know say it stinks don't say's too smart. That's not a reason to dislike something. And so I thought, well, what else?

What do I want to do? What kind of character do I like? What do I like watching? And then I was thinking of, like, happy people and, like, what's the deal with that? And so, you know, one thing led to another. But that was one of the, you know. Because those kind of people mystify you, you said. Yeah.

Now, you said you were in director's jail for a while. Yeah, you're always in director's jail. And then, you know, I mean I knew I would be in director's jail after Johnny Dangerous because we had a screening and the numbers were really bad. any dangerous because we had a screening and the numbers were really bad. And so I thought, well, I better take something right now so that they'll say, oh, you can't be in jail because you're still working on that, which has got these stars in it. So, you know, we'll have to wait and see before we like write you off. And not that I want to be with any of the female people, but women don't get like a lot of second chances. And so I had to really, really maneuver. I didn't want to be like doing girls lose their virginity movies because they did in Fast Times.

So that's what we'll allow you to do. That's what you were being offered at the time. Yeah. And then you do a gangster movie because you go like, I want to do a boy movie. You do a gangster movie because you go like, I want to do a boy movie. And then they don't get the comedy. So suddenly it's like, uh-oh, I got to do something where they do get the comedy because there it is. It's worked before.

It's the exact same thing. It's a sequel. And they'll push that and they'll be behind it because that's their franchise. And then if that doesn't work, then they're, you know, kicking you out of the industry. And then you got to, you know, grab onto a pen and hold on to it. Like, hopefully it gets you through the horrible waters of showbiz. And you tried to thinking I guess it would be a major success because the others were was getting you into European vacation. So, wait, what was the question? Well, that's a whole other podcast.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like I think you thought, well, I'll take European vacation because the vacation movies were all hits. There was only one. Oh, there was only one up until then. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, there was the vacation where they go to Wally World. And then the studio said that made money and let's get Chevy back and have him go to Europe. And so I read the script and I thought, Wally, you know, I mean, Chevy Chase going to Europe being the ugly American. Yeah, that could work.

You know, inadvertently ruining things but nothing went right nothing that was in the script made sense in actual Europe which I had never been to so hey another reason to make the movie

I didn't know like what the reality of a lot of things were and it was I didn't know like what the reality of a lot of things were. And it was – I'm like – I don't travel well. I'm like one of those ones. You describe yourself as an agoraphobic, Amy. Huh? You've described yourself as an agoraphobic.

But your tongue is cheeky. Wide open spaces, yeah. Yeah. When we went to California, we went through, drove across America. And it's like, okay, that's enough of that. I'll never do that again. You know, cornfields and deserts and shit. I'm with you.

No. Uh-uh. Yeah. I hate, I don't see the point in traveling. You're not a guy for the country or the suburbs either. No. No. You remind me of Alvy Singer.

Oh, yes, yes. He says he doesn't want the dead moths in the screen doors. Like, I like seeing nature if I'm inside a car or in a hotel room, air conditioned, looking out on nature. I like seeing nature if I'm in a museum. Yeah. And I'm seeing a painting of it. Yeah, or a diorama. Or, you know, let's see what Monet did with it.

Right. But I don't really want to go there. And you don't like sequels. I mean, I've heard you speak about, you know, the stories told. The story has come full circle. Why do we need to revisit these characters again? A lot of the time that's the case. I mean, something like James Bond, you wouldn't call those sequels.

Sure, no. No, that's different. You know, there are some things where you just – that could go on and on. But most things, they tell the story. There's a big kiss at the end or whatever and that story is told if it's done right. It seems with sequels, the characters have to forget everything they learned in the first movie. Yeah, actually we don't like each other, you know, now that we think of it. Or they have to find a similar Jeopardy, a Jeopardy that's so similar to something in the first movie that was so unique.

Yeah. And make that, try to create that lightning in a... I mean, when you think about it, and the great hope of all sequels is Godfather. Sure. You know, Godfather 2. But there was more story to be told in that case. Yeah, but even that was like,

okay, there's all this wonderful material and this one told the stuff in the middle so let's tell the stuff before and after which was kind of strange because it was almost like it wasn't a complete story in the first godfather although it felt like it was um so it didn't it didn't feel like a sequel. But that was the one time where you go like, yeah, you could do Godfather 2 and that'll be good. But then came Godfather 3 years later. Yes.

Well, he was drag kicking and screaming into that, wasn't he? He resisted forever. Oh, God, that was so horrible. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think. You'd have to count on one hand the the number of sequels that are right of frankenstein well yes right of frankenstein and godfather yes that's a

good example yeah and um not many what i remember is in jaws 2 i'll bring that one up the mayor had uh didn't believe there was a shark. And I thought, well, he already witnessed all this. Yeah. Didn't you see just one, Mr. Mayor? Yeah. That's a future episode idea. Oh, yes.

A successful sequel. Not many. What works sometimes is the meeting of things. You know, Abbott and Costello meet people. Sure. You know, Godzilla meets another monster. And, you know, things that you go, well, I like this and I like that. And so they might as well both fight.

It's different, though, because it's like Bond. You have one character that you're building new stories around. When you have to take 10 or 12 characters from the first movie and now make magic again with those elements, that's got to be tough. But also those like all those Marvel and DC movies. But those are like comics and there's endless amounts of stories with those guys. But I didn't like when they made Superman and Batman like going to fight together. And I don't like the idea of superheroes that I'm supposed to like being against each other. I don't want there to be a civil war. And I don't want Superman to fight with Batman. I want them to fight with bad guys because the fun stuff about those is like fun,

bad guys. Right. That's the best. That's how I feel about Bernie and Hillary, by the way. And you were a fan of Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. When I was a kid, I thought it was hilarious that they were, you know, all these monsters that I liked were in this movie that was funny. And there they all were together. And that was just like, wait a minute, the Wolfman and Bela Lugosi and Frankenstein? I was the same way. I thought I am so – because I wasn't familiar.

You know, it was so exciting when you were a kid to see a movie you had heard about. And I remember the first time I saw Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein, I go, well, wait a second. It's not just Frankenstein. It's also the Wolfman and Dracula. Yeah. And Chaney is back as the Wolfman and Lugosi finally is back as Dracula. Yeah, that was a mind blower. And then at the end, it's like the Invisible Man.

Oh, Vincent Price. Yeah, the cameo. Oh, my God. How did they get everybody in? That's just so Price. Yeah, the cameo. Oh, my God. How did they get everybody in? That's just so great. Yeah. You should watch Amy's movie, Vamps, Gil, because there's a lot of homages to the old classic horror stuff. I mean, Wallace Shawn turns up as Van Helsing.

Oh. Can we ask you about Marty Brest, a person we've talked about on this show? We've talked about going in style okay I was in my basement writing and Marty calls me up with friends this was a billion years ago and he goes okay you've been watching MTV you got to see this guy he's sitting on the beach with his eyes closed yelling and it was you wow knew? And he went crazy for you. He said, you got to see him. You got to see him.

And, you know, then I saw him. And it was like, oh, my God, that guy's hilarious. And it was those interstitials you did. You were sitting on the beach and blah, blah, blah. Yes. When I was doing those things for MTV. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. In the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was my first exposure to Gilbert, like me and Marty going, okay, let's go watch that guy. Oh, my God, that guy's great. And let's talk about you. It's come full circle. Yeah.

We were doing many episodes. We changed the format of them. But we would each pick a movie that we were obsessed with. And I picked Going in Style, which I'm sad to say is being remade but that's another that's another conversation yeah and i love midnight run and and uh so much of his work and uh what what is he up to um is he is he working is he you know you have to have you know clearance for to get the information. I see.

I don't want to put you on the spot. Yeah, because he's a very, very private person. He's the J.D. Salinger. He's turned into that. Yeah. Yeah, which I'm just fascinated by his disappearance and not in a good way because I'd like to see more of his – I'd like to see more films. He did some... I'm not supposed to say, but, you know, he did something that is amazing and I hope gets made

because it's amazing. Oh, a great script. Well... Oh, okay. You can't talk. Yeah. I'm not supposed to say anything. Well, we'll leave it.

Yeah. Now, you were telling me before we got on the air of some show you saw me do. Oh, my God. And I don't know if it was Move On or what it was. It was a political left-wing thing.

And everybody was there, everybody from, you know, Seinfeld to every big comic that there was at the time. And, you know, everybody was really hilarious. And then Gilbert comes on and he blows everybody out of the water it was just like amazing I was like crying and I think some of the stuff

was about was it Waldheim was a gangster the Joist the Whip bit no this was that bit see but it's a physical bit, so you can't really. You were saying hello. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, right. But that was part of the old, the same Waldheim bit. Oh, yes. Where they chase him to the top of the building, and the mob is surrounding him. Oh, yeah. You don't do that anymore. They're saying something like, oh, is that Norman Fell? Oh, it's me, Karen.

Right. I'm doing your own act back here. I used to see him. Caroline's had a club at the Seaport in the old days, and he would do a very long show in those days. And the Waldheim bit was a favorite. Yeah. That was, like, hilarious.

It ended with a Joyce DeWitt punchline. You remember? Yes. The premise is that the crowd chases Waldheim up to the top of a tower because they're – I guess it's angry Jews. Yeah, yeah. Because he had a suspected Nazi pest. Yeah. And, well, I remember the bit – See, this is the problem. I remember the bit was I was talking to Kurt Waldheim.

And he said, you know, a couple of years ago, I was in Germany on vacation. That's the one. And a guy was taking my picture. And who goes walking past right as the picture's being taken? Adolf Hitler. Well, I don't want him in the picture. I don't even know the guy. And then I do like the big, I throw my arm out like a Zeke Heil.

And I go, wait, wait, don't take that picture. Wait. That's the physical part. But the rest of that bit was. Yeah, of them thinking he's Norman Feld. Right. He yells down, it's me, character actor Norman Feld. I think Kurt Voltheim at one point to save his own life goes, I had a volatile working relationship with Cindy Williams.

Right. volatile working relationship with Cindy Williams. Right, well, they say, if I remember the bit correctly, it's how do we know you're Norman Ford? Yeah, yes. And you yell down, Joyce DeWitt had a likable vulnerability. Yes, yes, a likable vulnerability. Hilarious. Did you study with Terry Southern at NYU? The great Terry Southern?

The great Terry Southern? The great Terry Southern. If you call it studying. The writer of Dr. Strangelove and Candy for our listeners that aren't familiar and shame on you if you're not. Yeah. He came to NYU and he picked out some people to be in an advanced writing class. And then he said, but I don't want to sit here in a classroom. It's too boring. You'll all meet me in Hungry Charlie's or some bar.

And we'd all have separate times. And he kept making my time like the last one and asking me if I needed a ride home. And I didn't. I mean, I did need a ride home, but I was like, you know, afraid. And the thing is, like, as the night wore on, he'd get more and more drunk. And so by the time, you know,

it was time to talk about my stuff, he was like, you know, he was drunk. He just wanted to drive me home and I didn't. Oh, I was so stupid. And years later, I meet this other girl. And I told her about it. And she goes, you didn't sleep with him? Like, what are you, an idiot? Like, she did. I mean, it's like, you know, he's a big shot in the movie industry. You have to sleep with him.

And like, you know, what are you, you know. Go back to your job at Metropolitan Life, minimum wage. And where do you think you're going to get in this world? Now, here's something like, there have actually been books and websites on this, and it's so funny. And that's the alternate reality in movies like where there are these scenes like the talking killer like the killer who uh has the gun on the hero but rather than shoot him oh wants to give a long sure wow what scenes like that appeal to you and those weird things that are the movie universe. Well, like you say, every time you go, God, you could kill him so fast. Yeah.

Horsing around. It just happened for me for that Batman Superman one where it's like Martha. And I was like, oh, no, really? We're going to hang everything on that? I didn't see it. Oh. That's okay.

They're fighting. Everybody's seen it. And first of all, it always starts out like all these guys that have superpowers or amazing weapons, but somehow it's like exploding, exploding, flying, exploding, all sorts of weaponage. And then it's always down to man to man. Oh, yeah. And why? I don't know.

Why? What was wrong with all And why? I don't know. Why? What was wrong with all the weapons? That couldn't work? But, like, you're going to get punched and that'll kill you? What I love in movies is when the hero and the villain, or when the villain has a weapon on a hero, and the hero will go, you don't want to kill me that way. It's too easy.

Come on. Let's do this man to man. Yeah. Why would you give up your weapon? That's stupid. If you want to kill somebody, you want to kill them. Kill them and go home. Yeah.

That's it. I agree. I mean, you know, if you're going to the trouble of like meeting somebody who wants to kill you and being finally in the position where you could kill them, why jerk around after that? Just do it. The other thing that gets me, it's also a variation on talking killers, but when it's a mob like Don, like the high guy in charge, rather than just killing them or saying, you cheated me, and then taking out a gun and killing. They always go into like a long, like a college thesis. Like they'll go, in 1803, there was, they would have the celebration of the cockroach. Now, the cockroach was considered a sign of luck and a sign of prosperity. What?

What? Are all these gangsters so like? You also hate the romantic comedies. We talked about how when you get to that point in the rom-com when you know that the two people who are meant for each other have to pull apart. Yeah. And there's always a device. There's always a clumsy device. Somebody overhears a phone call they weren't supposed to hear.

Or there's the dumbest of misunderstandings. Yeah. Rom-coms are really on. I can't stand them. How many times do they catch them at the airport? Well, not anymore. I mean, because that was always the running, running, running airport stuff since like 9-11. Oh, you can't run to the gate anymore.

There's no more of that. Last time I saw that was in Love Actually. Yeah. The running to the... Yeah, you can't do that stuff anymore. And if you do, I'm in the theater going, no'm in theater going no no no no yeah that ain't and you know the other thing is in in romantic comedies it's like immediately considered great comedy if a girl is in a wedding dress not in a wedding situation if she's out in the street in a wedding dress or in a supermarket

well this bothers you i did you i was reading an interview with you you can't stand that all of these rom-coms and all these women are in searching for weddings weddings weddings weddings who cares right yeah there's so many of them there's so many various 27 dresses and the wedding singer and there's my best friend's wedding and there's a there's a many of them. There's so many various – 27 dresses and the wedding singer and my best friend's wedding. And there's a million of them. And they all run into each other. Okay. I pitched this thing that was making fun of all of them. Everybody said, oh, no, you can't do that.

I called it The Wedding Brides. And it was – Funny title. It was like all the tropes of like three women have a bet over who could get married first. Oh, jeez. But somebody vide a bet over who could get married first. Oh, geez. But somebody videotapes them and it goes viral. So everybody gets involved. And then, you know, big gamblers decide that they're going to like send in a ringer

to make one of them fall in love with him so that they could win the bet because she'll be the ugliest one. But they really do fall in love. You know, and then, you know, all the things that could be stupidly idiotically in these things. And I pictured it at the studios who all said no. But, you know, I tried to get it like, why? Why no? And they go, you know, because women like these movies and they don't want to see it made fun of.

I think that's wrong. I agree. Yeah. And also in romantic comedies, the woman always has to have a gay friend. Oh, mine all had gay friends. Yeah. So, you know, and then you have to have what I called a lesser because there has to be some sort of child or cripple or like financially – some person that you're friends with to show that you're cool. And the girl in romantic comedies always has to have a less attractive best friend.

always has to have a less attractive best friend. And the hard job is to show up in the movie and go, you know what's your problem? You work all day and you care more about your job than finding a guy. You know, that's her job. Or you don't see the guy that's standing right in front of you. You never gave him an opportunity. Yes. Well, that was always the thing.

It's like the guy that's right in front of you or, you know, the one that you would immediately dismiss that you didn't realize was so good and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, and the thing is with these like the friend who's like the ugly but funny friend who has some sassy answers. Those have gone through like like, different ethnicities. Oh, yes, yes. Goldie Hawn would have a Jewish friend who would be eating and telling her what was wrong with her. Then there came the black friends. Then there came the, like, Hispanic and the Asian.

So it's like, you know, if you were, like, not a leading lady but you were the wrong ethnicity, you were out of luck. And then they like said, oh, I think there's like actual kickbacks given now for certain ethnicities that you can – they get some money because the studios have to be less white. Oh, interesting. because the studios have to be less white. Oh, interesting. And so I have a friend who tries to act like he's Middle Eastern because he's actually Jewish, but he looks Middle Eastern. I mean, he looks Jewish, but of the wrong kind of Jewish.

Yeah. Because they don't get a kickback for that, for hiring a Jew as opposed to, like, you know, from some Middle East country. Interesting. My wife and I noticed a trend too with these rom-coms is that women seem to be falling a lot and it's always in the trailer. Oh, yes. Their shoes go out from under them or they fall hailing a cab.

A high heel. Yeah. The heel coming off. It's like a studio executive's way of saying, well she's cameron diaz and she's too unattainable and and make her goofy and make her fall down in a puddle yeah she's like you know so gorgeous and so able to like wear like five inch heels all the time but she's a klutz right they're all yes yes they're all klutzes see because you it's so funny it's like you have to the trick is to get a beautiful actress but make the audience feel like oh no she's just like a nebbish like so we're supposed to believe like you know uh julia roberts and Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock are Can't Find a Guy.

Yeah, of course. Well, oh, my favorite, as far as two people who couldn't find a mate, is in Frankie and Johnny with Al Pacino and Michelle Pfeiffer. Well, it was Kathy Bates on stage. Yeah. And S. Murray Abraham was the Pacino part. Yeah. And S. Murray Abraham was the Pacino part. Well, you know, if you go to the studio and say I want to do something like, you know, a teenage Marty, but they'll go, okay, but we want the guy from American Pie that's very cute that all the girls like.

So you can't do it. They don't let you. Right. You can't put in the, average people that's interesting a teenage marty because it is it's like when i was watching michelle pfeiffer which was just one example of a billion and i'm thinking uh why hasn't some guy walked into the diner and said, my God, this girl should be in Hollywood. Because she had some like strangly hair. Yeah. Yeah. The alternative to having her fall while having a cab.

Or my favorite, the glasses. Right. Let's see. Right. A beautiful actress puts glasses on and she's ugly and takes them off and it's like there's that, oh my God, moment. She's beautiful. My wife and I watched Loser last night.

Well, that was the situation. Right. I was thinking. So you got Jason Biggs. I love Jason. Yeah. He's adorable. Yeah.

But I was hoping for somebody a lot less leading man. Right. Right. I think it worked. It was not what I was hoping for somebody a lot less leading man. Right, right. I think it worked. It was not what I was, you know, you're writing one thing and they keep making you change it so you don't know what's good or bad anymore. And then it comes out and makes no money. And then you go, you're an idiot. And you go, well, you know, I'm an idiot because I couldn't think of like how to make this work with all these things that you made me do.

Did you choose the song Teenage Dirtbag yourself or was that your music supervisor? No, they wrote that for us. Yeah, I like that song. That's my sister-in-law's boyfriend. Really? Brendan Brown. They're great. Yes, they are.

They're on tour right now in the UK. Oh, cool. Tell them hi. I will. Small world. And you're a fan of Mad Magazine. I love Mad Magazine. Because when I was little, there were a lot of movies I couldn't see, but I could read the Mad Magazine satires on them.

I saw you mention Mort Drucker. He's alive and well. I know. Mort Drucker's still alive. Mort Drucker lives out in Long Island. Al Jaffe's alive and well right here in the city. We'll probably have Al on the show. He's 95.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's awesome. It's so funny that if you open Mad Now, it's all these artists who grew up on Mad Magazine. So there's one that draws pictures in the style of Mort Drucker. Yeah. Another style of Don Martin. Aragonist.

There's an Aragonist guy. Yeah, yeahornist. There's an Aragornist guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a thing they do with like, you know, the lighter side of. Oh, yes. Where they take the old comic the way it was and change the dialogue to fit into stuff now. And it's cool because, you know, the same situations but with slight changes are all still wonderful.

Yeah, because Dave Berg's dead. They can do that now. Well, I hope his relatives and his estate get something. I remember when Don Martin finally left MAD. Yeah, it was a scandal. He went to Cracked. Yes, and Cracked said, now with Don Martin. I said, fuck you. Don's gone. Don's head now with Don Martin. Oh, fuck you.

Don's gone. Don's gone. But I told the guys at MADD, I've written for MADD on and off for about 20 years, Amy. Wow. And I told the editor-in-chief that you were a fan. They were excited. So Mort, we should get Mort and Al Jaffe to come and talk to us. Yes, absolutely.

Mort sent me, and this is something I feel horrible about. He made a loose leaf with a lot of his pictures and autographed them to me. And it was like when my father was dying. And I wanted to send him a thank you and tell him how wonderful it was. And I just had other things like that. I was just putting off and putting off and putting off. And then it was too late. And then he called to see if I got it.

And I went, oh, God, I didn't write a thank you quick enough. I'm such a jerk. But it's like my most treasured possession. Oh, nice. Yeah. I remember when Beverly Hills Cop 2 came out, I saw a picture of me in a Mott Drucker. You never showed me that.

Yeah. That's cool. Oh, that is the coolest thing there could be. That's cool. That's like, you know, that or Hirschberg with the Ninas on your face. Oh, yeah. I'll show you something later outside that I brought. Oh, cool.

After we wrap. I was just watching you in Beverly Hills Cop 2 with, like, the thing in one hand that would make you forget. But I had an issue with that because there was you and there was Paul Reiser. And, you know, you were playing someone named Bernstein. Yeah, Sid Bernstein. Who was like cheating stuff and wheeling and dealing. And Paul Reiser was the like young Jewish guy who wanted to be more like Eddie Murphy. And I thought, well, this seems all very anti-Semitic.

You know, I mean, what, Jews can't be cool or Jews are just cheating people? I mean. But I remember, and I don't know if you were doing this or what, there was, yeah, I think think it was they were casting for the part of a landlord uh-huh and originally they wanted a black guy and so but they said ah this black guy as this this money hungry landlord that sounds landlord. That sounds racist. So they got a Jew. Well, we should start wrapping up. Yep, this was fun.

This was great. Thanks for coming and doing this. We know you don't do many interviews. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. Once again at Nutmeg Post with our engineer Frank Fertorosa. Post with our engineer Frank Ferdarosa and today we've been talking

to director, writer producer and all around Jew in Hollywood Amy Heckerling and we should thank Bobby Slayton too for setting this up our friend Bobby and so

for all of the people who know Amy Amy Heckling is the one with the German babysitter. Thanks, Amy. Thank you.