Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 121. Ron Leibman & Jessica Walter

Episode Date: September 19, 2016

Emmy-winning actors (and husband and wife!) Ron Leibman and Jessica Walter join Gilbert and Frank for a loving and laughter-filled look at some of their most memorable film and TV projects, including "The Hot Rock," "Play Misty for Me," "Where's Poppa?" "Up the Academy" and "Archer." Also, Ron mimics Walter Brennan, Jessica remembers Raymond Burr, Gilbert covers Bobby Vinton, and Jerry Lewis "borrows" from Harry Ritz. PLUS: Godfrey Cambridge! Art Metrano! "Zorro the Gay Blade"! The return of Rickie Layne and Velvel! And "Won Ton Ton, the Dog Who Saved Hollywood"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Must be 19 or older. Ontario only. Please pay responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit ConnectsOntario.ca. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter and subscribe on iTunes so you don't miss a single episode. And if you like the show and think we deserve a five-star rating, and obviously we do, rate us and post a review. Also, although our main purpose in life is to entertain you, producing this show costs actual money. receive old sorts of goodies, merchandise, personalized roasts, and shout-outs, advanced access to episodes or personal messages from me, Gilbert Gottfried. And if we raise enough, Maybe I can finally get a new co-host. I'm thinking of the Scar and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Now, if you think when we have one guest, these introductions are long, I can pretty much tell you we could have a cab waiting for you after. There'll be no time for the actual interview. It's a two-pager. Yes. It's a rare two-page intro. time for the actual two pager it's the rare two-page intro our guests this week are two of the busiest most versatile and most accomplished actors and of their generation jessica walter has

starred in broadway plays and musicals appeared in police dramas situation comedies soap operas, and variety shows, and appeared in films like The Group, Grand Prix, Lilith, Tape Heads, The Flamenco Kid, The Slums of Beverly Hills, Bye Bye Braverman, and of course, Clint Eastwood's directorial debut. Play Misty for me. Her numerous, and I do mean numerous, TV appearances include The Fugitive, Manix, Love American Style, Columbo, Ironside, Hawaii Five-0, Dinosaurs, Coach, Just Shoot Me, The Big Bang Theory, Just Shoot Me, The Big Bang Theory, Retired at 35, Saving Grace, and Amy Prentiss, for which she won an Emmy as an Outstanding Lead Actress. She's also been nominated for an Emmy for her role as the boozy socialite Lucille Bluth on this beloved comedy Arrested Development and she currently stars in the hit FX series Archer as the headstrong spy mistress Mallory

Archer. Ron Liebman is... Bravo, bravo. Should we have an applause? I love him. He's just... He moves me deeply. I heard he passed away.

Is that true? We'll read his credits anyway. This is our in memoriam part of the show. Amazing. Let him do the intro. I don't care about it. Let's just get to the interview. Radley Minnis, an award-winning performer with stage credits,

including Rumors, I Ought to Be in Pictures, We Bombed in New Haven, The Merchant of Venice, winning a Tony for his powerful performance as Roy Cohen in the Pulitzer Prize winning play Angels in America. TV appearances include Police Story, The Practice, Law and Order, Murder, She Wrote, Friends, and The Sopranos. He also won... It's the saddest thing I've ever heard. He also won an Emmy for his role as the ex-con-turned-lawyer in the CBS series Cars, and a show he also co-wrote and co-created, and he's been in memorable films like The Super Cops, Slaughterhouse-Five, Norma Rae, Far Lap, Zorro, The Gay Blade, Nightfalls on Manhattan, Garden State, and two personal favorites on this podcast, The Hot Rock and Where's Papa.

In their long and distinguished careers, they've shared the screen with James Garner, Warren Beatty, Kirk Douglas, Zero Mostel, George Segal, Helen Hayes, Charlton Heston, Burt Lancaster, Gene Hackman, and Robert Redford, and worked with iconic directors like George Roy Hill, Arthur Hiller, John Frankenheimer, Herbert Ross, and Sidney Lumet. Please welcome to the show our very first married couple and Let's see how the night goes. The jury's still out. The jury's still out is right.

And the most successful acting duo since Lunt and Fontaine. Jessica Walter and Ron Liebman. Bravo. You know, Neil Simon said we were the Polish Luntz. Oh, I love that. We were in rumors together.

He said, you're the Polish Luntz. I love it. And I was talking to you right before we went on. I just wanted the audience to... When I was a kid, me and my two older sisters, Arlene and Karen, lived in Crown Heights, Brooklyn and we would go, I don't know, maybe it was filming two days or

three, we would walk over to the Brooklyn Museum to watch the car crash in front of the Brooklyn Museum for the movie The Hot Rock. What a lonely child. Trust me. You have no idea, Ron. Trust if i if i had a good

social life i wouldn't know at least that's right me and frank are basically products of a terrible social we've talked about the hot rock on this show you were merch the driver yeah i was merch the driver yes i had to learn how to drive one of those 37-wheeler things. I actually had to learn that. And I did. It was an interesting bunch of people, George Siegel and Robert Redford, Paul Sand, and Zero. I got to work with Zero, who I adored.

Well, we shared a trailer. They asked me if that was all right. They were trying to save some money. So I said, sure. And I couldn't wait to meet him because I had such a crush on him. I just loved, I'd seen him in like off-Broadway things like Ulysses in Nighttown

and of course in Fiddler by that point. And I'd come into the trailer, and he'd hide behind his New York Times account, and he wouldn't say good morning. And he had a driver and a dresser who worked for him, and I'd say good morning, and he wouldn't talk to me. So I'm sharing a trailer with two guys who are not talking to me. I don't know why.

And I came in the second day, good morning, silence, and I see Zero hiding behind a New York Times. He didn't know why. And I came in the second day. Good morning. Silence. And I see Zero hiding behind a New York Times. He didn't say anything. I asked the AD, I said, am I doing something that's offending these people? I said, oh, you don't know. The guy who drives for him can't speak. And that's why he hired him years ago. He doesn't speak.

He doesn't hear that well. And Zero, he said, I can't explain. So the third day, I walked into the trailer. And I looked at the little guy. I looked back at Zero who was hiding. I said to the little guy, will you shut up? And the time started shaking. And he was laughing.

And we became friends. Oh, wow. That's a good one. That is a good one. Interesting, interesting man. We had his son on this show. We had Josh Mostel. Oh. Yeah.

We're both Zero fans. Yeah. I loved him. I really loved him. Did you ever see his paintings? He was a wonderful painter. I never did. That's how he worked his way through the blacklist.

He had to sell. Yeah, yeah. He could work nightclubs, some nightclubs, some cabaret stuff. But he couldn't be in films, couldn't be on major networks. A professor of mine in film school was actually, was roomed with Zero, and they were blacklisted together. A man named Arnaud Dussault. And, yeah. We've talked, the blacklist comes up a lot on this show

we just talked about it with Lee Grant oh yeah great part of her life yeah sure yeah

wow and it's funny because when the Hot Rock came out it was like the two new guys I mean everybody

knew Redford and Siegel but the two new guys were you and Paul Sand yeah and it was so much fun to watch the both of you.

Oh, thank you. Terrific heist movie. Peter Yates, right? Peter Yates? Yeah. He had just done Bullet, I guess? Yeah. Interesting choice. We actually went up in the helicopter. There was a camera there and the doors were off.

I was terrified. I'm a Jewish kid. We do not go up in helicopters with open doors. I guess the Israeli army does, but I didn't want... And they were building the World Trade Center then. And one of the shots was the helicopter going up, flying outside the World Trade Center. So it's imprinted in my mind. And when that horrible day happened,

I said, oh my God, I brought all of that back. It was fun. It was fun to make the movie. And it should have been more successful. It's a wonderful story that the old man, Daryl Zanuck, ran the studio, Fox, and he was booted out by his son. What's his son's name? Richard Zanuck.

Richard. Yeah, the Jaws producer. So this was Richard's movie. Richard wanted to do this. So when Richard took over the studio, this was his film. Just before the film was going to open, the father came back into power and threw Richard out and threw the movie out too. Redford called me once from Boston, the other piece of the film. He said, we just opened with not one commercial on television and nothing in the papers except the reviews.

What a shame. It's such talent. It could have been much more successful. It's a What a shame. It's such talent. It could have been much more successful. It's a very funny movie. It's highly regarded today. And is it Moses Gunn? Moses Gunn, yeah. He's like an African.

Sure, sure. William Goldman wrote the script. In fact, I even remember the theme song. Of course you do. Yes. Dun, dun, dun. Dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Dun, dun, dun.

Dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Ron is staring at him. You've not been in many musicals, I think. He does this on the show. He remembers. He recalls old theme songs. In fact, another theme song I remember. Well, now both of you

worked with Sidney Lament. Yes. Twice I worked with him. She worked with Sidney twice. What was it like? What both of you recollect? Gilbert loves Bye Bye Braverman. Speaking of George Segal. Yes. An amazing cast in that movie.

George and Joseph Wiseman. Sorrel Book. What a great memory. Oh, when they get old, it's so sad. You know, Alan King. Yes. That's right. He was the rabbi.

Alan King, Zora Lampert. Right. Phyllis Newman. Let's see. There was, oh, Jack Warden. And Jack Warden. Right. Sidney loved Jack. He used him in many, many movies. And after, oh, Jack Warden. And Jack Warden. Right. Sidney loved Jack.

He used him in many, many movies. And after that, I did the group. No, actually, I did the group first. And then I did. And, you know, I was a replacement in Bye Bye, Brave Him. And he called me. He said, Bubby. He called me Bubby.

Bubby, I need a favor. You know, it was a cameo role. He said, oh, I shouldn't tell this story, should I? You want me to tell? No. Because I don't give a damn. I'm retired. I couldn't tell.

He doesn't care. Anyway, let's just say for reasons unknown, I replaced Maureen Stapleton in that role. You're very similar in type. And I thought it was so strange. Right. I thought it was so strange because I was like 26 years old.

You know, and we're not exactly the same type, but what an honor to replace Maureen Stapleton. Right. She's a wonderful actress. Sure. And I remember with

Bye Bye Braverman, it was, Have you seen Braverman dancing? He was the king of the ball. Oh, my God. Whirling and twirling and prancing. Doing the Braverman waltz. Yes.

Oh, my God. Brilliant. I like the lyrics here. Oh, my God. This is why you're doing this show. It gives you the opportunity to sing. Absolutely. Because you do Rock-A-Bye-Your-Baby with a Dixie Melody.

Oh, my God. You figured him out. That's impressive. Rock-A-Bye-My-Baby. Sounds like Jerry. Yes. With a Dixie melody. Wait, I have to tell you something.

Have you seen? Wait, wait. Ron, Ron. Ron does. Ron does. Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin together. Listen to this. I want to talk loud.

You're going to have to hold it down, Jerry. You don't want to hear this. Yes, we do. I could do to have to hold it down, Joe. You don't want to hear this. Yeah, yeah, we do. Yes, we do. I could do Renee Taylor and Joe Bologna talking. Ronnie, Ronnie,

do Cary Grant. I can only do Cary Grant sneezing. Yeah. Want to hear Cary Grant sneeze? Yes. I actually did this

on The Tonight Show because I had a Frank Gorshin with me. And I said, I feel so out of it i need to do an impression johnny would you like to hear carrie grant sneezing and he looked at me strange and i went off choo choo choo we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing coloss. But first, a word from our sponsor.

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Yeah, you do Jerry. Yeah, he's got a great, he does a great one. Let's hear it. Oh, it's a thing with the person and the high, and he's walking with the high. Oh my God.

Very good, bravo. It's good Ron didn't do it. We don't want to follow that. Yes, you can't follow that. No, you can't. You and me, we're going to be partners. You and me, we're going to be pals. How's that for you to sing that?

When was the last time you were asked about Bye Bye Braverman in an interview, Jessica? It's been a while, huh? He brought it up maybe the fourth show we did. I can't get over it. I'm so impressed. I don't think anyone's ever asked me about it. There you go. But it was a good movie.

It's one of those films that Sidney Lumet himself admits was not a perfect film. But it's one of those when it's on TV, I have to watch it. It's one of those films that grabs me each time. Bye Bye Brave Men is way up there on that list of films. Oh, I'm so glad you think so because I sure enjoyed the experience. We've talked about Lumet a lot on this show. We've talked about The Verdict. Yes.

We've talked about you're a big fan of The Pawnbroker. Oh, yeah. Who isn't? Yeah. The Group. Oh, yes. Have you seen The Group? Sure.

The Group was good. You were Libby. I was Libby. The group. Oh, yes. Have you seen the group? Sure. The group was good. You were Libby. I was Libby in the group. And the advertisement was, oh, was, I just knocked the microphone, Libby with a big red scar for a mouth. They had like the eight girls like in a little horseshoe. Right, sure. Each picture. And that was my title.

And I remember they used to say the biggest star in a Sidney Lumet film was New York. Right. True. Absolutely. He knew how to film New York. It was an amazing thing. Well, they're like time capsules. You go back and just watch Dog Day Afternoon and you go back and watch them. And you really see the city.

Pawnbroker 2. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dog Day Afternoon and Bye Bye Breker 2. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dog Day Afternoon. And Bye Bye Braverman. Serpico. Yes, Serpico. We were all over Bye Bye Braverman. They were all over the place.

Yeah. Cemetery in Queens. And speaking of the group. Yes. Didn't Mr. Eastwood see you in the group and decide that you were? You know, they wanted the studio. It was universal. They wanted Lee Remick because they wanted the studio. It was universal.

They wanted Lee Remick because they owed her pictures. And he told me that later. But anyway, he just felt... He had seen the group and actually he was looking at somebody else in the group. I won't say who. Not Maureen Stapleton.

No. But he thought I would be right from seeing Libby. Was Play Misty for me? And this is trivia I just found doing a little, and I hope this is true. Was it based on an incident that happened to Gene Shepard, the radio host? You know Gene Shepard? Yes, of course. I remember him very well.

No, I think it was. Is that erroneous information? I think that's erroneous. It was written by a woman named Jo Himes. Yeah, Jo Himes. I've never heard that it was related to Gene Shepard. Interesting. No.

Now, the actress, Brenda Vaccaro. Oh, she introduced us. Oh, yes. Yes. That's what I'm bringing. Yes. You know, from Midnight Cowboy and a bunch of films. The best.

I heard she pretty much forced you two together. She said, go out with Chinese, with Ron, with us, with her husband at the time. You don't have to marry him, so of course. She came to Australia. I was doing a film in Australia. Well, not she, me. The kid over here.

Because we're talking about Brenda. Beautiful girl. But let me just say this before that. Is that Brenda and Ron, this is good trivia, Brenda and Ron were doing Zorro the Gay Blade. Oh, yes. In Mexico, and for

Christmas break, you know, he lived in New York, but it was closer to stay. She invited him to her house to stay there, and she always had a huge Christmas party, you know, with 800 of her closest friends. So she invited Ron and she invited me.

I came with my whole family that was visiting from the East, blah, blah, blah. And we did hello and goodbye. Nothing happened. And then she called and she said, you must go out with Ron. And we started talking on the phone. On the phone.

You would call her like at five o'clock every day and I would pick up knowing it was you. So way to get to know you. And we became phone pals. Didn't you run up a crazy high phone bill because you were talking long distance? No, we weren't long distance. That was in Australia. All the phone bills in Australia. She used to call me in Australia and for $42,000 a minute,

she would say, do Walter Brennan talking to Gary Cooper. Do it, do it, buddy. Now, you've all heard Walter Brennan. Of course. But you've not heard him talking to Gary Cooper. No. Hey, boy. Hey, doing shit?

Okay. There's not a big call for him. Would that be the Westerner or Pride of the Yankees? It's good. That's great. But she wouldn't leave the two of you alone until you got married. She was very instrumental. She's a wonderful person and a great friend.

And I said, that's the best thing you ever did for me. Was introducing me to Ron and pushing it. Oh, this is a story about Australia, what she was about to tell. He went to do Farlap in Australia. Oh, yeah. And he invited me to go. Now, I had been in Australia twice.

Once for the love boat. We did the real cruise. Oh, wow. Yeah, two-hour love boat. did the real cruise oh wow yeah two hour love boat and once a year once a year they did like a real cruise yeah

so we did the Fiji Islands and we ended up in Sydney and the second time was a pilot oh is that later Aaron's Way in Adelaide but anyway

so she said you know I said Ron invited me to come to Australia but you know it's the other end of the earth what do I need this for she said you will know, I said, Ron invited me to come to Australia. But, you know, it's the other end of the earth. What do I need this for? She said, you will go.

It is an investment in your life. She was right. And wasn't there a clunky proposal, Ron? I read somewhere there was. You referred to it as a Jerry Lewis proposal. It was. That's how I referred to it. It was a proposal on New Year's Eve in my New York apartment.

She was still living in California. I never gave up my New York apartment because I didn't like it. We still live in it. It's been remodeled a little bit. But anyway, I was in a very long white bathrobe. I'd taken a bath. And she was seated in the living room. And my plan was to get down on one knee

and then put out the little box in my hand and open the box and offer her the ring and ask her to marry me. So I tripped on the front of my bathrobe. Hey, lady! Went right into her. I just humiliated myself. I was so nervous.

And I said, and you can do the punchline. I'll do my part. And the box was still in my hand and I was shaking. I said, will you marry me? And I said, if I say yes, can I see what's in the box? Nice. That was 33 years ago.

We just celebrated 33 years. Congratulations. Thank you. We've both been married before. So between us, we have about 110 years of marriage. But this is it. No more, huh? The second time around, it's about 110 years of marriage. But this is it. No more, huh? Second time around, it's true.

It's better for us anyway. And now you've worked with George Segal a few times. A lot. Me too. Both of you. You too. That's right. Where's Papa?

Oh, my God. That's right. Both of you. And Jessica did a sitcom with him. That's right. I did a sitcom and something else. I don't know, but I called him up one day and I said, I can't get rid of you.

Get out of my life. George is one of our dream guests for this show. Oh, I bet he would love it. He would love to do it. Woody, we'd love to have him. Tell him not to bring the banjo or you'll never get a word in. That's fine. That's fine. I'm going to put George in his banjo. Leave me to bring the banjo or you'll never get a word in that's fine george and his banjo leave me alone with the banjo

i used to love him playing the banjo on the cards you know he even played the banjo on retired at 35 yeah i remember we got that in there probably in his contract i i heard that the reason he would bring the banjo on those talk shows was it was very stressful for him to do the talk shows. It is for everybody. And he felt like when he played the banjo, he was doing a performance of a guy having a great time. What an interesting thing to say. Yeah. That's an acting moment.

Yeah. I don't want George to think we're sucking up to him, but I have to say, for a guy that could do drama and comedy. Yeah. He's great. Yeah. And anything. Absolutely great.

You know, and films like A Touch of Class and No Way to Treat a Lady. And just yesterday, Brother Rat. Brother Rat. Yeah. I mean, real range and funny. A lovely guy, too. A really, really lovely person. I love even little films that people don't talk about,

like The Duchess and the Dirtwater Fox. You know that film? It's very good. He's the reason I even got... I was always working in theater, and I hadn't done no film. We were friends. He came to see an off- off broadway player was doing and he brought Carl Reiner with him and Carl came into my dressing

room with George and I said would you like to play George's older brother in a in a movie and he laid the script on my dressing room table where's Papa? And that's how I started making movies, because of George. Sidney Hawkeiser, George's brother. We were just watching a little bit of it. Frankie, do you have any of the Where's Papa thing? This is a great moment. Sidney!

She sounded crazy. He is crazy, and she's crazy. No hitting! Let him throw her out the window already. Gladys, he sounded crazy. He is crazy. And she's crazy. Dad, Sheldon's hitting. No hitting. Let him throw her out the window already. Mom, Dad is biting. No biting. You know, Sidney.

Gladys, move. You know you're crazy too. Move. I think you like getting mugged every night. Will you move? No. Not tonight, Sidney. I said move.

Get out of here. No. Mom, Mom, they're kicking me. Get away, Sidney. Is it moved? No. Mom, they're kicking me. Get away from that door. I'm going to choke your child. You know who that child was? No, who? Mel Brooks' kid.

Are you kidding? Max Brooks? Yeah. Oh, wow. Who's now Max Brooks? How about that? Carl Lundum. From Mel. No, I didn't know at the time.

That movie, I mean, Gilbert and I talk about black comedies that they don't make anymore. It's very hard to make a comedy that dark. And you never saw the original ending, which was much darker. Yes, there was a different ending. Yes, when he went to see her in the old age home and she said, where's Papa? Right. And he said, Papa's home. And he started to get into bed with her.

This they cut. There was nothing, he could have just laid down next to her. Right. But the response to it was so negative from people. Obviously they had problems, these people. And so they changed the ending. I always thought the other ending was. And so they changed the ending.

I always thought the other ending was more apropos of the film. However. It turns a little sad in the end, too, with Sorvino is running the old folks' home. Can't you see I'm saving luncheon? Right. But the scene where you try to make it through the park. When you're. I can't say the name of the guy who was chasing me. Oh, you can say it on this show.

You can? Yeah, sure. Well, his name was Motherfucker. Right. Remember Gil? Motherfucker, not tonight. Please, Motherfucker, not tonight. Please don't take my clothes off tonight.

And the second time you go through in the ape suit. Yeah. It's a hilarious movie. And they really don't make comedies that dark anymore. Imagine a joke where the guy's choking his child to get his wife to move away from the door.

So good. And I saw this quote from the playwright Tony Kushner. And he says of you, of Ron, he is brave and theatrical in a way that no other stage actor is. That's true. How do I respond to that? Will you do more of your Jerry and Dee? Working you over, Ron. See, I played you a compliment.

You know, it's true because Ron and I did Tartuffe in L.A. at the LATC. And I's very lovely Ron and I did Tartuffe in LA at the LATC and I was Elmire and he was Tartuffe and after one rehearsal I said to him

I said is there nothing you will not do for a laugh I mean it was so I said are you seriously

considering doing and tell him what it was the thing with the shoelace I can well you have to really see it. You can't explain it. You have to see it.

You don't have a television camera. All right. Well, I tried. Don't do it for us afterwards. They're supposed to rape her on a table. Talk to? Or attempt. They're supposed to rape the lady of the house on a table under which the husband is hiding.

It's a great Moliere moment. So all through rehearsal, she would have on capizios to push me away with her foot, or she would have on sneakers to push me. And came to dress rehearsal, and she had these long laced boots, which I had never seen. And it was a dress rehearsal where there also was an audience, but we had never done it in full costume. So she put her leg up, and I saw these long laces, and I untied them, and I licked them from top to bottom.

It was the first clitoral joke ever done in downtown Los Angeles. And you know what? It worked. I swear to God it worked, or we wouldn't have ever done it again. That's great. Yes. They used that picture in the ad. They used the picture of you licking the shoelace in the ad. Anyway.

And Frank sent me a note last night because he knew I'd be excited by this. Yeah. You played Shylock in Merchants of Venice. At the public, yes, at the public theater. Can I ask you to do some of Hath Not a Jew Eyes? I don't remember. My memory is gone. That's why I'm teaching.

I only speak the truth here. If we got you any of it. I'll tell you the truth. I was a prostitute in Chicago. You didn't know that. There's all kinds it. I'll tell you the truth. I was a prostitute in Chicago. You didn't know that. There's all kinds of stuff, I can tell you. What was Ruth Gordon like before we jump off Where's Papa, Ron? She was very quiet.

She was a legendary performer. Yes, she was our mother. Ruth Gordon played George and our mother. Yeah, in Where's Papa. Yeah. I can't really say. She was there, but she didn't really talk a lot. And she was a wonderful actress.

She was just a wonderful actress. Remember when she won the Academy Award at 80? She was 72. Was it Rosemary's Baby? Yes. It was Best Supporting Actress. And she said, this was her speech, I must say this is very encouraging.

Oh, that's funny. She was 72 years old. We never knew if she was serious or if she was kidding. Well, she was kidding, obviously. I've got the Shylock speech here. Oh, for God's sake. I don't remember it. I swear. We have it on the phone.

You want to take a look and see? Just do one line. Yes. Listen, he gave you Walter Brennan. I know. on the phone. You want to take a look and see? Just do one line. Yes. Listen, he gave you Walter Brennan. I know. What the hell do you want? And Gary Cooper. And Gary Cooper.

Can you do Walter Brennan as Shia LaBeouf? Yeah. Hasn't had a Jew eyes. I want to ask Jessica, and we'll keep it moving, but I want to ask Jessica a little bit more about Play Misty for me. Oh, that was such a great role. Which I watched last night again, and I mean I've seen it many times. It's a terrifying character, but there's a lot of depth to the character. I mean, you manage to make – she's not a garden variety psycho.

You manage to make her both seductive and sympathetic, which must have been no small feat. Well, you know, I just thought of her as the girl next door. I never thought of her as crazy or psychotic. I think that was the key, that it was really – she had to have this man or die. It was that simple. Right. It's kind of like an early fatal attraction. Yeah, I mean, fatal attraction owes a lot to it.

Yeah, it was. It was the first. It was. I mean, she's unstable, but you feel sorry for her. Oh, I'm glad. And she loves poetry. I mean, she loves Errol Garner, obviously. The trick of playing villains is to get the audience to have sympathy for the villain.

Is to find their vulnerability. That was the vulnerability. If she didn't have this man, she would die. Right. That's a strong goal. I've heard you say, too, that you like playing bitches better than Miss Vanilla Ice Cream characters. Yes, yes. I've said that.

It's true. You know, first of all, you have a much longer career if you're not playing little sweet siangenous. Right, right. And I remember I once went up for a John Wayne movie. I forget which one. Anyway, his son was the producer, Patrick. Yeah, Patrick Wayne.

And I was so sure I would get it and everything. You know, I met, I didn't meet John Wayne, but I met Patrick and the director, whoever that was. And then I came back to the feedback was, we don't see her as the gal, you know, standing at the gate while he runs off into the sunset with the horse. We don't see her as that kind of gal. I never got those sweet-sie parts. Good. Thank goodness. They're boring. Yet I saw you in a Western clip of an episode called The Name of the Game.

Oh, my God. With Warren Oates, where you wrestle a woman. Oh, I don't remember that clip. Oh, my God. It's on YouTube. People can find it. But you know something? I also wrestled a woman in a thing called Women in Chains.

It was a movie of the week. And Ida Lupino was the warden. And I was her helper. Ida Lupino, wow. And that woman, Joyce, the blonde woman who was married to this. Joyce Van Patten? No, no, we know Joyce. Oh, we love Joyce.

Anyway, I wrestled her. So I've wrestled a couple of dames. Gilbert just perked up. Yes. If you can make me a clip of this in a room. I'd like to watch that myself. And you're like one of those actors who, with millions of movies, TV shows, stage productions, if you show a picture of you, they're going to go, oh, that's that guy from Friends.

Yeah, Dr. Green. Everybody says that, oh, we know you from Friends. That just tells you the the power of television is. Quality problems. I didn't even want to do it when they asked me, but our daughters, oh, you gotta do it, you gotta do it, you gotta meet those kids, you gotta meet those kids.

We gotta do it. So she pushed me into it. I wasn't gonna do it. Oh, wow. I'm a very difficult person. You've probably seen that. She made me do Joanie Loves Chauchy. Oh, wow. That's right.

You did Joanie Loves Chauchy. I said, Joanie Loves Chauchy. She said, Mom, Mom, I'll be on the block. Everybody will be talking. It was a big, hot show with kids. There is no show you didn't do, Jessica. That's quite true. Tell them about the blue lighting.

Oh, you know, you remember? Was it Universal? Universal and Paramount, too. It had this blue kind of lighting and film. Anytime that comes up. Honey you're on. The blue lighting on all those shows. Blue lighting. Oh interesting. It's a little tint. It probably was cheap as well. Probably. Cheap film.

Wasn't day for night was it? They were just. No. There was a certain lighting of those 70s shows. I was doing research for the show, and we knew you'd done a lot of stuff. But I said to Gilbert, there wasn't a cop show or a detective show or a medical show between 1965 and 1985 that you didn't do. I was really lucky. I really was, to work all the time. Yeah.

I was really lucky. I mean. I really was to work all the time. Yeah. Cannon, Banachek, McLeod, Quincy, Mannix, Columbo, Cannon, Alias Smith and Jones. Oh, my God. The late Pete Duhl. And Mission Impossible and The Immortal. And I mean, it just.

Yeah. A lot of movies of the week. And a lot of movies of the week. Black Market Baby. I thought I was marrying a high class girl. Black Market Baby I thought I was marrying a high class boy her father played with the NBC played under Toscanini

and I thought I was and on Honeymoon what is she reading? I figured Pride and Prejudice she's reading the June Allison story I love those books me too, we read a lot of them for this show tell us a little bit about Amy Prentice which was a spin-off of yeah yeah well I it was a two-hour iron sighted and it was not meant to be a pilot but they liked the character

wasn't it one of the NBC mystery yeah it was in that wheel we called it the wheel and I got a call one day from my agent. He said, are you sitting down? I said, ooh, what? He said they want to do it as a series in the wheel, like two-hour shows or an hour and a half. So we did. It didn't last. Right.

What did you do, four of them and you won an Emmy? We did four two-hours. Yes, I did win an Emmy. With Art Matrano, Gil. Art Matrano. Dance it, dance it, dance it, dance it. I didn't know me. With Art Matrano, Gil. Art Matrano. The best. The best. The best. The best. The best.

The best. The best. The best. The best. The best. The best. The best. I love him.

I love him. The best. Our friends Frank DiCaro and Jim Colucci are here, and they're loving these references. I love Artie. You don't hear an Art Matrano reference every day, do you, Jim? And Helen Hunt played your daughter. Helen Hunt. It was her first job.

Oh, my God. She was nine years old. Nine years, and I knew then she was going to be special. There was something about her. And Ron, you were Jennifer Aniston's father. Yes, and she sends me no money. Yeah. But the resemblance between

the two of you is uncanny. Thank you. I'm getting an erection. Oh, my God. I'll be thinking about you tonight. What is an erection? He really is. You'll tell me later. I love Jennifer.

I love Jennifer and David. Most of my stuff was with Jennifer and David. And I enjoyed it and David. Most of my stuff was with Jennifer and David. And I enjoyed it, yeah. I said, God, you people work hard. I've pretty much stayed away from television as much as I could because I love the rehearsal process that you have in the theater. I love those four weeks of discovery and finding stuff and inventing stuff. And you don't get that in weekly television.

You learn your lines, and you're thrown up there. I just did a play. Tell us about it. Tell us about it. Sorry, sweetie. No, that was great timing. Well, but we only had two weeks rehearsal. That's what I thought of it.

For Bucks County Playhouse. Yeah, you did Steel Magnolias? We did Steel Magnolias with Susan Sullivan and Patricia Richardson. It was such a great... And Marsha Mason directed. Wow, Marsha Mason. Glad to see her around. The most wonderful person.

Oh, we love Cinderella Liberty. Yes. And The Goodbye Girl. James Caan. Correct. I just did a movie with James Caan. As a matter of fact, Frank, didn't we just do the ADR for James Caan movie? Frankie Verderosa.

Did we work on that? Was it you? Wasn't it you last week? It may have been the other Frank. No, no, it was you. It was me? Okay. Yeah.

I'll take it. It was like five lines for ADR for Operation Insanity with James Caan. I remember Cinderella Liberty. One of our guests was Paul Williams, who wrote the theme song. That's right. Do it for us. Okay.

Don't encourage him, Jessica. You're very kind, Jessica. You're very kind. So kind. Hello. What a simple way to start a love affair. Should I jump right in and say how much I care? Would you take me for a madman or a simple-hearted clown?

Hello, with affection from a sentimental fool to a little girl who's broken every rule. One that brings me up when all the others seem to let me down. I cannot believe this. Did you ever hear anybody do Paul Williams? How long is his contract with this show? It's just been terminated.

This is it. This is the final show, ladies and gents. He does a great Paul Williams, but we had John Biner on the show. And John, they did matching Paul Williams or dueling Paul Williams. We sang a duet back and forth. It was so much fun. Now, you won an Emmy for Amy Prentiss, and it got canceled. And this leads me to Ron.

Speaking of winning Emmys for canceled shows, tell us about Cass. It ran one season. And then I won the Emmy Award, and I thanked CBS for the opportunity. Television is strange that way. It was awfully strange. And I knew nothing about television. But I had this contract with CBS, and I was working in the theater, and they

said, well, you've got to do something. We keep paying you. So, I wrote the idea. We had a deal, a deal with CBS. We don't say contract, we say deal. So people understand. Sorry, sweetie. So what did you want to know about it? I love the back and forth that they have worked out.

So the show got on the air. Oh, I know, because I didn't know anything about television. And there come the first Sunday night it was on. It's about an ex-con who becomes an attorney. Yes, an ex-con, which is possible in certain states. Yes, which is possible in certain states. And it was really a Les Miserables story that his past kept following him, all the negative people from his past. And he was trying to change his life.

I always found that an interesting subject. And what was my point? You didn't have a good experience. Well, you co-wrote the show, and you co-created the show. I think the idea was that we only get Emmys for canceled shows. Yeah. We've been nominated for other Emmys, and they were successes. Isn't that interesting?

We didn't win them. And you were in a movie that's popped up on this podcast for all the wrong reasons. Oh, you're going for it, huh? Yes. Oh, I told him about that. Which one? Up the Academy? Yes. Yes! Oh, you're going for it, huh? Yes. Oh, I told him about that. Which one? Up the Academy? Yes. Yes.

Oh, you were warned. Just, you know, and I should warn the audience, this is not one of those so bad it's good. It's just plain bad. Now, so in that movie, you actually had your name taken off it. It was a different script when I originally agreed to do it. You know who the director was? Robert Downey Sr. Yeah, Bob Downey.

Of all people. Who you liked. I loved him. We were in this together. But then, just before we began shooting, they presented a totally different script. And they put, what, Me Worry character from...

Yes. Oh, Alfred E. Newman, yeah. I said, this is not what I signed on for. I thought of myself as a little classier than that, the fool that I was. And I said, well, I'm going to take my name. They wanted my name above the title at that point in my career. And I said, you're going to have to take it off.

I'm not going to do the film. And they said, well, what billing do you want? I said, let me see the film when we put it all together. And I had an idea. It wasn't going to be wonderful. You know, Bob Downey Jr. was in it. Oh, yes. He didn't have any lines,

but his father threw him in there. There was a lot of talent in the picture. Tom Poston was in it. Yeah, sweet man. And not only did you have your name removed, but there was a statue of Alfred E. Newman in the movie that Mad Magazine had removed. I didn't know that. That's great to hear. We had a couple of editors here from Mad Magazine a few weeks ago, and William M. Gaines, the publisher of Mad, also paid something like $350,000 to have Mad's name removed.

It wasn't that Mad's name was removed, but they removed all visual references to the mascot. That's a bad film. Wow. Yeah. Dear me, the sky is falling. That was a play Ron was in, Dear Me, the Sky is Falling. My first Broadway play.

Oh, wow. Dear Me, the Sky is Falling. Oh, tell the story. Tell the story. This is a great one. She's no. Fear Me, the Sky is Cold. Oh, tell the story. Tell the story. This is a great one. She's no longer with us. She loved to control. She had a real control thing.

And it didn't happen to me. She had a big stomach. And she used to turn sideways and make hand gestures where she wanted the actors to move. The audience couldn't see her hand. And we opened in New Haven, and she got a big laugh, and it was an actor named Michael Bazelian who was on stage with her.

She wouldn't have done this with me because she knew I was nuts already, so she wouldn't have tried. But the audience laughed in a place she didn't expect, and she said to him, don't move, they're laughing, they're laughing, don't him, don't move, they're laughing, they're laughing, don't move,

don't move, it's dying, now you walk across the stage. She's doing this all under her breath. You're laughing, you're laughing.

You don't like a ventriloquist? How would you like somebody doing it? No, she didn't do it with me. She had me fired every other day and then

the producer kept rehiring me. I had me fired every other day and then the producer kept rehiring me. I want to say one positive thing about Up the Academy, but friend, this is the New York Times raved about Ron's performance. Vincent Canby said, Ron Liebman is magnetic in the role. Really?

Yeah. I found this while digging. Put your name back on, quick! And I found another review where they referred to the eternally marvelous Ron Liebman. So there you go. I never read these. I'll send them to you. You know, the thing is about reviews, when they're awful, they last forever.

And if you're in a play and they're wonderful, they always pick a moment they like. And if you read that, that and they're wonderful they always pick a moment they like and if you read that that moment is gone the next night because what you're thinking of is the review rather than what produced that wonderful moment you want to repeat

that review basically I guess it's in your head you can't get it out of your head so don't read reviews yeah sing I've heard actors say that in stage plays,

that they'll get a review on one line they do. It'll never be the same. Yes. It'll never be as fresh or as what attracted the critic in the first place. So best to read them when the play closes. Or not at all. Or have people like you tell Ron how wonderful he was.

I never read those reviews. Thank you for that. I'll dig it out for you. Well, as long as we're torturing Ron, do we want to bring up, and he brought it up himself, before we turned the mics on, we had mentioned that Bruce Dern had done the show, and then Ron said, I did a movie with Bruce Dern. It's a movie that has come up on this show before.

One time, Tom, the dog whoed Hollywood. And I played Rudolph Valentino, whose name wasn't Rudolph Valentino in the movie. It was Rudy something or other. I think it was Rudy Montague. Rudolph Montague. How wonderful that you remember that.

He did research on it. The character used to... It's not all on there. It didn't really work. This guy sits here and sings his pathetic song. Exactly. Awkward. And he does all the work.

Why don't you try singing a little bit? I was hired for my voice. Rock-a-bye-a-baby with a Dixie melody. What was the point about Juan Tonton? Juan Tonton, the dog who said, I met Madeline Kahn on that movie.

That's a great cast. I met Terry Garr on that movie. I like Bruce very much. And we were both members of the actor's studio. And we said, what the hell are we doing in this movie? Well, Phil Silver's an Art Carney you also acted with in that film.

I don't remember. And Juan Tonton. There were a lot of people. Everyone. Zsa Zsa Gabor was in there. The Ritz brothers. John Carradine, Johnny Weissmuller.

Yeah, Rudy Valli. Harry Ritz, who was the lead of the three Ritz brothers who played the mountains and cabarets, was the guy they all stole from, where Jerry goes,

Harry Ritz was doing that first, making those funny sounds. And they all took for, Jan Murray told that story once. Wow. Everyone stole from Harry Ritz. And I got to see them. I can't do it because we're not on television.

But why they were so funny when they'd sing. Putting on the Ritz. And Harry Ritz would see a girl and he would step and they'd have to pull him back. The next time they went around the stage, he'd go. They'd have to pull him back. The next time they went around the stage, he'd go, I mean... They'd have to pull him back. And finally he went... There's a little Charlie Callis in there, too. You remember Charlie Callis?

I do, indeed. I used to do those kind of sounds. If you ever saw Martin and Lewis, my parents were nightclub people. They loved to go to nightclubs, and they just loved to go to the Copacabana. And I never understood why he always got a table put down in front, because he was in the clothing business. But his partner was not in the clothing business.

Oh! You see? So we got, and I got to see Martin and Lewis in their native habitat, which is where they began in Jersey, in the Copacabana, live. Martin Lewis live was something to behold. I know it wasn't classy. I know it wasn't sophisticated, but it was funny. Who did you miss in the Copa?

Wink, wink. Oh, I was just going to get to that. My wife was a Copa girl. Did you lie about your age to become a Copa girl? I did. Tell us about that. Well, you know something? I think it was i

think it was 1957 or so anyway luba lisa whose real name is luba goodnick she was in the well we all went to luba goodnick i love the name we uh she be actually she became quite well known for a while before she tragically died in an airline crash at 26. But anyway, we went to performing arts high school, right? Two blocks away from here. One block. And she was in the dance department. I was in the drama department at PA. And we used to go home on the subway together, which was then the BMT. We would take the BMT to Queens Plaza. She'd get off. I'd go further into Astoria. Gilberto, you remember the BMT and all that stuff? Oh, my God, yeah.

Anyway, so she said, oh, I'm going to go try out for the Copa. She was a dancer. I said, I'm going to try out for the Copa. I'm so scared to go alone. Would you, like, go with me? I said, yeah, I'll go with you. So we go, and we go into the nightclub part, and there's a guy, you know, whatever,

lube walks across the stage. i don't anyway and this guy says so uh girly you you come on come on out here it was really a guy with that kind of voice and uh i said well i'm just here with a friend come on come on so i walk across the thing i have my school books in my arm we We didn't have backpacks in those days. And he said, you know, lift your skirt, of course, just above the knee in those days. And I got the job. She never spoke to me again. Oh, my God. And you became a copa girl. She was a copa girl.

For the summer. Was Jules Podell still around in those days? Yes. But it was the summer, so we had people like Ricky Lane and Velville that's the worst acting show that's come up on this show

that is the worst Ricky Lane and Velville well Paul Schaefer was on one of our first shows they both spoke the same way how can you be

a ventriloquist how you doing how are you I'm fine how are you are you really fine yes I am it was the same voice

for both the guy and the... I didn't quite get it. They didn't have their big... Ricky, Lane, and Delville. Yeah, they didn't have their big... Or Sullivan Act. The Great Ballantyne was a great act.

We love Carl Ballantyne. Yes. And he cut the tie up and put it in the hat. Sure. And he'd break an egg, and he'd bring it back up, and it was a broken egg and a tie that was dripping, and he destroyed the guy's tie. Yeah.

And never returned it. You know, at the Copa, during the summer, There was a broken egg and a tie that was dripping, and he destroyed the guy's tie. Yeah. And never returned to it. You know, at the Copa, during the summer, they had, did not go, Mort Saul played at the Copa. Oh, wow. The audience was like, huh? Not a good booking. Not a good booking, but the summer they were desperate. Yeah. I guess he was, too.

I don't know. I heard Carl Ballantyne, when he was really old, he would get up in the morning and like the garbage men would recognize him. From McHale's Navy? Yeah. Yeah, they go, you're Carl Ballantyne. Can we have an autograph or take a picture with you? And he goes, yeah, for $5. And they'd give him the $5 and he'd go to like a burger place and have lunch

i always thought art metrona was a little bit just maybe like a little homage to carl ballantyne because they both had the well carl carl had the bad magic act and art had no act yeah no art just had the the handkerchief you know the thing about art that people don't realize, well, they do if they've seen him in a dramatic show. He's a wonderful actor. Wonderful actor. Wonderful. He was on Kaz, too. He was wonderful.

Oh, nice. Nice. I remember him in a short-lived series with Jamie Farr called The Chicago Teddy Bears. And Marvin Kaplan. Remember Marvin Kaplan? Marvin, of course. We had him on the show a couple of weeks ago. Wow.

Oh, my God. He was very big with the Screen Actors Guild. Yes. He's 90. Oh, my God. He was very big with the Screen Actors Guild. Yes. He's 90. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, he was terrific. A terrific guest for us.

Oh. You're a fan of old comedy, Ron. Someone told me you were a Lenny Bruce fan, too. Oh, major. So was George Hamilton, which was a big surprise. Wow. When we did whatever that was. Zorro the Gable.

Zorro the Gable. Zorro the gayblade. I thought George was going to be a jerk, a Hollywood jerk. He turned out to be the most sophisticated guy and it turned out that Lenny Bruce was his favorite comedian. That takes a certain amount of sophistication I think because I love Lenny Bruce. Now you've never played in Lenny I guess. I was asked to do it in London and I couldn'tny Bruce. Now, you've never played in Lenny, I guess. I was asked to do it in London, and I couldn't do it. I was doing something else, yeah.

It seems like it would have been a perfect... Yeah, perfect for you. Cliff Gorman did it. Yeah. May he rest in peace. Sure, Cliff Gorman. And then Dustin in the movie, Hoffman. Yeah.

Can we ask you guys some questions that our fans sent us as we wind this down? Absolutely. And let you get on with your us as we wind this down? Absolutely. And let you get on with your lives. God, this has been fun. I'm just going to run through a couple of these quick, Gil, if that's okay. Steve Camilli, I just saw Jessica on stage in Steel Magnolias. Can you ask her if she has a particular standout stage experience? Hmm.

Ron is pointing to him soon. Ron is pointing to it I was their stage experience so many you know I don't know it's strange there was one play I did

photo finish with Peter Ustinov I was very young and I can't explain it very rarely when you're on stage you have this kind of surreal, ethereal kind of experience where you're one with the audience and it's like magic.

I had a moment like that in that play. Do you remember this piece of music? Frank, do we have this queued up by chance? This is speaking of Jessica in the theater. I do. Stand by. You might get a kick out of this. Oh my God!

Why can't you behave? Of course. Kiss me, Kate. Yeah. That was Michael Callen. You and Michael Callen. Is he still around? I don't know. Remember Michael Callen? Oh yeah. Mickey Callen. A lot of work. And look at the picture he's got

going there from Grand Prix with an umbrella. Oh, my God. We do deep research here. We do. You did that for television in the 60s? Yes, you know, for Armstrong Circle Theater. Wow. Yeah, those were the days. With Robert Goulet and

Carol Lawrence were the... Sure. They were married. They were married, yeah. Here's a question. Julie Munchen. Sorry. Here's a question that I want to... Because both of you are such experienced stage actors.

What do you do? Do you ever have those moments where you've been on stage and you feel like, I just don't have a grasp of this, like in some scene or the whole thing. You mean it was off that night or you never had a grasp? Yeah, some maybe off that night or maybe you never felt like the character was totally yours or anything like that.

Very little of that because I was always very careful about what I would do. If I had no connection, I wouldn't do it. I just would turn it down much to agents, chagrin, because they want you to do everything so they can make the 10%.

But I wouldn't do a lot of stuff. You don't get a medal for that. Just for me. Just for me. I don't preach it for young actors who I teach all the time now. No. But I sure have had those moments

where you think you're flying and there's nothing like it. That's a good way to put it, Ronnie. Like you're flying. Absolutely flying. Very rare. I had that in Angels. I had that almost every performance. Because the writing of that character was so brilliant.

And so, what I've... We're talking about playing the nasty people. They're always more... Yeah. Isn't Iago more interesting than Othello? He is to me. And... For the record, I was the voice of Iago.

Oh, my God. Iago the parrot. Yes, I read that about you. We've researched you a little bit, too, you know. Now go back. We have looked you up. We Googled you. Just to see if he was okay.

It's quite an interesting history. Yes, we're very impressed with you, Gilbert. Your childhood, you were influenced by comedy deeply, yes? Yes. It really hit your heart. My first realization that life was, I did not have

a particularly happy childhood. Not unusual after his go. But what saved my life was the Marx Brothers. Oh, yeah. I discovered the Marx Brothers. Oh, that's nice to hear. And people said, they're surreal. I said, no, they're not surreal.

That's reality, man. That's the reality I understand. Make that three hard-boiled legs. I didn't know he was such a gifted mimic. He really has. I haven't seen him do voices in movies. He's very good. You know, he's Ron Cadillac in Archie.

I know that. Yeah. But I haven't seen him. I didn't know he could do Walter Brennan in the Drought Show and Jerry. It's pathetic, isn't it? Gilbert got on stage at 15 for the first time. Doing what? Yeah.

Stand-up. Yeah. Just some open mic night. my god courage yeah or stupidity oh no that's a courage yeah you aren't stupid i don't see you as a stupid no you're not stupid you sing you sing much too much but you know the side that the first i see you as a smart kid. I'm serious. We've known each other a long time.

And the first time I saw him on stage at a club called The Comic Strip, he was doing material about Ben Gazzara. Oh, my God. And Norman Fell. And I was one of those kids that read credits and watched. And I thought, who is this person that would get on stage? And I wondered how many people. Good for you. Yeah.

Really esoteric references. And to this day I still do imitations of John MacGyver. Remember John MacGyver from Midnight Cowboy? He'll do the voice, you'll recognize him. Do the voice. Heavy set guy. He would be bald, heavy set.

He'd usually be a pompous authority figure and it was always everything in this hotel must be run according to schedule. Yes, yes, I know who it is. Absolutely know who it is. You should do an evening of obscure references. A whole hour

and a half. We hardly knew you. Here's one for Ron from Facebook. Ron was unforgettable in Super Cops and Norma Ray. How did he like working in Opelika, Alabama? Opelika. Opelika, sorry. And he's played a lot of real-life characters.

Has he ever met any? Yeah, I met the guy in Super Cops who was a cop. Oh, Greenberg. Greenberg wound up in prison. That would have been a more interesting movie. Well, we like Super Cops. That's another one of those movies where you get to see old New York. And Norma Rae

I met Marty Ritt had a meeting with Marty Ritt who should be on your list of wonderful directors also blacklisted yes, he did Sounder he did The Long Hot Summer but I sat in his office and he said I'm going to have to ask you

I know your career is where it is we don't have to ask you to audition, because if it doesn't work between you and Sally, we have no movie. It becomes a documentary about forming a union, and that's not a movie, that's a documentary. What a smart man. So I work with Sally.

We never met each other, and it was one of those moments. We did a scene for them, and the chemistry, whatever you want to call it, it was one of those moments. We did a scene for them. And the chemistry, whatever you want to call it, it was there. And we have remained friends through the years. You were the union organizer, right? Yeah. I was the one out to get her and change her life.

It was like Pygmalion Galatea's story. And it was wonderful. That was an experience that is unforgettable, as Angels was in the theater, Norma Rae was. I'm a lucky guy, I just realized that. Your Tony speech is very touching, by the way. Watched it. It's on YouTube.

Which is? Your Tony acceptance speech for Angels. Short and sweet. Thank you so much. He thanked 563 producers. Yeah. I much he thanked the 563 producers yeah I think they gave you 30 seconds here's one for you Jessica

someone Greg Pair please ask Jessica about her turn as Morgan Le Fay in Marvel's Doctor Strange movie any memories of that well I'll tell you memories Dr. Strange movie. Oh, my goodness. Any memories of that? Well, I'll tell you.

Memories. You know, she comes back as 500 years old or something in the end, and I had to have that face mask that they do. They build the old age thing. It's like claustrophobic. What do they call that, Ron? The life mask? You know, a mask of you, and then they make it old. Yeah, a life mask. It is a life mask.

Yeah. Yeah, I own a few of those of other actors. And it was, I remember that. Like, you have to be put in plaster. Plaster. You know, and it dries on you. It's very frightening. They've done it of me where they, like, put a straw in your nose.

Yes. Oh, my God. And you do. You are lying there, and you're going, even if you're not claustrophobic. You become claustrophobic. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that about it.

And I thought it was a pretty good movie of the week. Now they're going to do it, I hear, as a movie. They're doing it as a big budget movie, yeah. I did that for Slaughterhouse-Five because the guy at the end, Lazaro. Yeah, you were the psycho. Once again,

onto the breach, dear friends. And at the end of the movie he's an old man, so I had to do that. Oh, that was scary. But those people are real artists who do that, the makeup people. Oh, my God. These are the guys at Universal. Did you do videos at Universal?

They had a whole department. John something famous. John Chambers. Yes, John Chambers. That I can remember. I can't remember my name, what happened yesterday. John Chambers, I think that's the makeup artist who that whole Argo incident was based on. Yes, yes.

Where they went to the Middle East and said they were, yeah. Right. That John Goodman played them. Yeah. Yeah. And since you both work for Lumet, which we talked about before, but we talked about the group. And I want to ask Ron about a good performance as the DA in Night Falls on Manhattan. Yes.

He had seen me in Angels and wanted me to play this character. And I love working with him and Andy Garcia. If you ever have a sweet guy on, get Andy. We'll try. What a lovely man. We'll try. Lovely and talented. I'm trying to get Dreyfus.

Dreyfus was in that. Klinghoffer. He played Klinghoffer, right? He kept pushing his glasses. Do the thing that you did. I used to drive him crazy off camera and it would swing around and I'd be in the shot and he was walking around and I would stick a tissue in my

nose. The camera didn't see it. But Dreyfus would see it. Just trying to shake some reality into his performance. Stop it. He doesn't mean that. I'm teasing, Richard. Richard. It's the truth. I was in a show with Richard.

We're changing the subject right now. What did you do with him? Victory at Antony. Oh, sure. Sure, with Kirk Douglas and Helen Hayes. Theo Bacal. Oh, sure. Sure, with Kirk Douglas and... All those big stars. Helen Hayes is in that. Theo Bacal, Helen Hayes. Here's two last ones, quick ones. Ron Lehman is unforgettable in a film called

Your Three Minutes Are Up. Oh, my God. With Beau Bridges. I would love to hear his thoughts on that one. We became very close friends, and we had a hell of a time. It was an independent, small-budget film. And I fell in love with Bo

and then, of course, we did Norma Rae together. And then he asked me to do a movie that he was directing. So we worked together three times. That whole family is a wonderful family, the Bridges family. Yeah, really nice, good people. And we had a nice time. I don't know, I don't have any strange memories. We just had a good time

doing it. Lloyd Bridges was in the Fiji, Australia love boat. That's right. I spent two weeks on a boat with him. You're also in the very first episode of Flipper, which is the trivia. I was! I was in the first episode of Flipper, and is the trivia. I was! I was in the first episode of Flipper.

And you want to hear the awful what they did? I thought... This is my new favorite episode. It was actually, I think it was the pilot of Flipper. But anyway, so we're out there on the sea and the basis of the story was that a helicopter had dropped some medical stuff and it didn't hit the boat. It went down into the sea.

So Flipper has to go find it and bring it up. So they have a helicopter, you know, and out comes the dolphin into the sea. And I said, oh, my God, that's so amazing. They said, well, he's a dead frozen dolphin. Oh, that's horrible. Well, maybe I shouldn't have told that story. Well, that's okay. Well, you can make up for that story by telling Gilbert what Raymond Burr was really like.

Oh, I like Raymond Burr. We're fans. Of what, Raymond Burr? Yeah. You know, the best thing about when I would come home from Steel Magnolias, it's in New Hope, Pennsylvania, and the apartment that was offered had like three stations and one of them is MeTV out of New Jersey.

We've been watching it, yeah. Which I love. And the best thing I'd come home get home about 11.30 and watch Perry Mason on MeTV. Those were

I love those old shows. We watched Columbo on Sunday nights yeah Sunday nights MeTV is in Pound Ridge where we have a country house and we watch Columbo you find your episode we did once find my episode

you also did McCloud Macmillan and Wife Tenafly Bannachek Tenafly with James McKeachin from Play Misty for Me the best yeah we brought these shows up on here

yes the black TV detective. I was working off Broadway for $45 a week. I didn't know her then. I didn't. I didn't. You worked arguably as much as any actress, any television actress. Yeah.

I was very lucky. It's not luck. It's never luck. You weren't lucky. One of those shows, the Robert Stack one, the name of the game. What was it called? Robert Stack. The Untouchables?

No, no. It was in the mystery. Yeah. It was like in the late 60s. There was the one with Rock Hutchins. Robert Stack. Was there one with Robert Stack? And the one with Tony.

Tony Curtis. Tony Franciosa had one. Robert Stack was the head of a publishing company. I don't even remember that show. Yeah. Tony Curtis's was called McCoy. It was called Name of the Game. Oh, the Name of the Game.

Well, that was Gene Barry and Tony Franciosa. Right. And Robert Stack. Oh. Robert Stack was in one of those mystery movies or something. But my point was, so after the OJ thing, I realized in that show, my character, of course, the bad girl, has to go into the,

they had recreated a real San Quentin, the real San Quentin gas chamber. And they had two extras. One was a white guard and one was a black guard. That leads me into the gas chamber and it was OJ. Wow. He was making extra money when he was going to usc he used to be an extra and he was and i did the

bobby vinton show remember oh yeah take it away we had to encourage him Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- early 70s or something. You danced with him. And at the end, we all do the polka. Da, da, da. And he was my partner. I have it on tape. You did a polka? I danced with a murderer. You held the hand that held the knife.

A polka with OJ and I have it on tape. Wowee. And how did we find it? Tell them how we found it. We were looking for Shecky Green. Yeah, on the web. She was on one of those talk shows.

We had Shecky here. My government show. We had Shecky here. Isn't he the funniest? He and Gilbert had a little run-in. Oh, no. Yes. Why?

What happened? I was at some Friars thing. Yeah. And out of nowhere, I do my set, and then someone else, he was supposed to follow me. Right. And then I found out that, well, Joy Behar, who wasn't supposed to be on. And she goes, boy, isn't that Shecky an asshole? And Shecky was like screaming about my set saying, I was in the Navy.

I never heard words like that. And he tried to throw a punch at like Stewie Stone or Freddie Roman. And yeah, yeah. He had a little meltdown. But then we had him on the show. And it was not much better. No, he gave us about 20 minutes and hung up on us. And 20 minutes that you couldn't use one, really.

Oh, wow. We used it. Funny guy. But how we found out about the OJT was we were looking for this interview that I had done on the Mike Douglas show. For the skit with Shecky. We were looking for that skit, which I had never seen. And all of a sudden, Ron said, wait a minute. And this was right during the trial.

Ron said, wait a minute. Oh, my God. Wait a minute. It's you and OJ dancing the polka. That's wild. I had forgotten about it. That is wild. Oh, my God. Wait a minute. It's you and OJ dancing the polka. That's wild. I had forgotten about it. That is wild. Oh, my God.

You can go to the Museum of Television Radio and find some of those. Yes, you can. Yeah, it's a great resource. I had never seen Play Misty for me. I'd seen pieces of it on television, and we were dating. She said, well, why don't I put it on the VCR, and I'll go and make dinner in the kitchen? So I'm watching this thing. She's killing about 1,100 people.

And in the kitchen I hear, she's chopping with a knife. I said, if you're going to leave, you will leave now. I love that. Oh, my God. That is great. Okay. She only killed two people, to be fair. Oh, okay. John Larch and? The housekeeper. The is great. Okay. She only killed two people, to be fair. Oh, okay.

John Larch and... The housekeeper. Clarice. Clarice Taylor. Was that really you floating in the water at the end? Yeah. Did you do your own stunt? Yeah.

Wow. I didn't fall from the cliff. Sorry to give away the payoff. Yeah. But, yeah. You haven't seen it by now. I was game. It's 1926 it was made, I think.

That, I have to just say that, as Ron said, Norma Rae was such an experience. That was a wonderful experience. Clint Eastwood, the best. And Don Siegel is the bartender. Yeah. The great Don Siegel. Yeah. He had him around just in the show.

Yeah. That was the first day of shooting was that scene in the bar with Don. As I said, you're so good in the film. Oh, thank you. Where you run the gamut. Great role. You know, we have this saying, Ronnie and I, if it ain't on the page, it so good in the film. Oh, thank you. Where you run the gamut. Great role. You know, we have this saying, Ronnie and I, if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. Just like with Angels, how brilliantly it was written.

It's sort of like with Archer. I mean, how he comes up with these things. Adam Reid. Adam Reid, he's so brilliant. Yeah, he's very brilliant. You guys have done everything. This has been quite a ride. What do you think?

We have totally enjoyed it. It's 112 degrees in this room. Now let's all sing together. Remember the Breakfast Club when you were a kid? Good morning, Breakfast Clubbers. It's nice to see you. Another cheery greeting's the way we bring you. First call to breakfast.

Phil goes, call to breakfast. We sing that to my best friend, Louisa Rella. We sing that to her every morning. We call her and we wake her with that song. That's hilarious. Do you remember? Or are you too young for the Breakfast Club? Don McNeil and the Breakfast Club. Wow.

I was going to try to get Ron to go for whatever it is. I'm against it for most feathers since he loves the Marx Brothers so much. Do you remember Don McNeil and the Breakfast Club? No. I can't say I do either. Out of Chicago. He's a young guy. He's a young guy.

We were like really young when we heard that on the radio. That's fantastic. We just stayed home from school. As much as I hate for people other than myself to sing on the podcast, that was great. That was incredible. We'll have to teach it to you. Bored the rest

of America. That was great. I have one last question to throw in before we go, and this is from Joe Dator, D-A-T-O-R. Will Ron Liebman ask you to take his name off this episode? That's funny. Yeah, he's nodding. He's nodding.

And now, Robert Redford. Oh, I love working with him. Yeah? He's a sweet guy. Yeah. I'm a very dedicated fellow for a lot of causes. Oh, absolutely. He does a lot of good stuff.

Besides Sundance. My God, how much work has he given people. And Burt Lancaster? I never worked with Burt Lancaster. You did Victory at Entebbe, but you probably didn't have any scenes. Oh, I didn't have any scenes with him. Right, right, right. Oh, okay.

Right. No, what did I have scenes with Elizabeth? There was an article in Today's Times about victory at Antwerp. And that's where Netanyahu's brother was killed. Right. He's the first Israeli. He's the only Israeli soldier killed. And that has special meaning, obviously, for Netanyahu.

I remember there were two movies out. There was that one, Raid on Ontario. There was Raid and Victory. Yeah, with Charles Bronson. Right. Yeah, that was the other one. Why do I remember Yafit Koto being in that? Yes, yes.

He played, what's his name? The African. Idi Amin. You know who played Idi Amin and died on the set? Godfrey Cambridge. No kidding. Oh, that's, I've heard that. We're fans of Godfrey Cambridge. No kidding. Oh, that's... I've heard that. We're fans of Godfrey Cambridge.

Who was also in Bye Bye Bray for me. Yeah. Yeah. He was a New York actor. Yeah, funny guy. Yes, and a nice man. Yeah, that was really... Well, Gil...

That's not a good way to end the show, though. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was walking down the street, and one guy looked at me, and he goes, oh, I know you. You're Godfrey Cambridge. Oh, dear. So long for a while. That's all the songs

for a while. When he said you're Godfrey Cambridge, it made me think of Joan Crawford and Catherine Hepburn. They lived in the same neighborhood. They lived in the same neighborhood. They lived in the same neighborhood, and people would always come by and say to Catherine Hepburn, Oh, Miss Crawford, aren't you Joffrey? And she signed Joan Crawford.

That's not the point. Anyway. Thirty-three years of her joy. You two are a pair. Anyway, poor Joan Crawford died and somebody Catherine Tepper was taking a walk and somebody said, oh, Miss Crawford.

She said, I'm not Miss Crawford anymore. Oh, that's nice. You ruined it. I was on a run with it. You ruined it. You two have to do it to like a, I don't know what it is, the gin game? Something where you can get this repartee going. On stage, nothing.

This is like sitting with Stiller and Mirror. Oh, that's a compliment. I love them. Oh, yes. So quick plugs, Jessica. Archer. Archer. On FX.

Archer on FX, yeah. We're going to season eight. Going to Comic-Con next week. It's wonderful and funny. And Ron is on the show as Ron Cadillac. He has been. And I teach at the new school. Yeah, what do you teach?

Yes. Acting, obviously. What do I teach? Ballet. Snowboarding. Well, it could have been acting for the stage. It could have been acting for the screen. Algebra 2.

I teach Algebra 2. I flunked Algebra 1 twice. He's a great teacher that I can tell you. Kids worship him. I love teaching. And I will say this. Is this the end of the show?

I want to end on a positive note here. End on a positive note. End with a song. I have learned more about acting from Ron Liebman than I did from any acting teacher or any experience that I've ever had on stage.

That I will tell you. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, now I'm going to wrap up this show, and I want you to sing that song you started singing. Which one? You know, Goodbye. The Breakfast Club again?

No, no, no. Oh, it was from television. So long for a while That's all the songs for a while while, you have to hit parade. So long from your hit parade. And the songs that you pick to be played. So long. Lucky Strike means fine tobacco.

Well, this is... Goodbye, everybody. Nice to see you in the television show. Well, this is... Goodbye, Godfrey. Goodbye, everybody. Nice to see you in the television show. Very good. He's very funny. This has been Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Once again, a nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa.

Thank you, Frank. And we have been talking to the double great, Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter. I don't think I've ever been this entertained by guests on this show. Oh, I bet you have. 115 episodes. You guys are... You mean we don't get any money for this? Yeah.

Oh, wait a minute. Hold it. You're two guests who make me feel like singing. Oh. That's sweet. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Thank you, guys. Thank you. We had such a good time.

It's the most fun I've ever had on one of these things. I'd have to thank Frank because I know he said, he said, oh, I'm up to talk to them. Would you do the show? It's you guys. No, it's you guys. If you didn't have the personas that allowed this, we would just clam up. Well, yes, it's true.

I've clammed up before.