Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 126. Dana Gould

Episode Date: October 24, 2016

Comedian, writer, actor and dedicated film buff Dana Gould drops by the studio to chat about everything from Hollywood "fixers" to werewolf transformations and to regale Gilbert and Frank with stories about everyone from Dwight Frye to Mark Hamill. Also, Dana meets Merv Griffin, mimics Adam West, befriends Vampira and remembers Roddy McDowall. PLUS: "Mars Attacks!" The genius of Dan Curtis! The sexism of James Bond! Gregory Peck meets Gopher! And the mysterious death of Albert Dekker! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. At this exact moment, you're just five minutes away from mouth-watering golden french fries. Five minutes away from crispy onion rings and potato tots too. Because five minutes in the air fryer is all it takes to serve up a delicious batch of Cavendish Farms' new Quick Crisp Onion Rings, Potato Tots, and French Fries faster than ever before. Just 300 seconds between you and your all-time favorites.

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I want money. Just give me money to make more Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. It costs money, believe it or not. You're over there saying, but it's so cheap and amateurish. I know that, but it still takes money. So it's patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried, patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. Patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. And there are rewards in it. I can't even say reward. Rolling.

And there are... Cut. And, you know, like sign posters. And some of you, if it's enough money, I'll roast you. And there's so much, so much. But it's patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. Give me money! Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we podcast host, film historian, Emmy-winning writer, and one of the sharpest and most admired stand-up comedians of his generation. You've seen him on Mad TV, The Ben Stiller Show, Roseanne, Seinfeld, The King of Queens, Clerks, Mob City, King of Queens, Clerks, Mob City, Jimmy Kimmel Live, Parks and Recreation, Real Time with Bill Maher, and Family Guy. And in the films, Mystery Men. I woke up early the day I died and the, this one I think I've heard of, The Aristocrats. She's written and- She? I haven't written down she,

so I think you're going to have to cut your dick off, please. If you could, it would... Because it costs a lot to re-tape these. So just chop your dick off. She has written... She, with her big breasts and neatly trimmed bush, has written and starred in several of her own stand-up comedy specials, including Dana Gould. Let me put my thoughts in you. And Dana Gould, I know it's wrong. But wait, there's more. He, or I'm sorry, she, has also written for popular and successful

TV shows and spent seven seasons as a producer and staff writer on a little-known short-lived series called The Simpsons. His terrific podcast is called, appropriately enough, The Dana Gould Hour, and his brand-new horror comedy series, which he wrote and created, called Stan Against Evil, wrote and created called Stan Against Evil. Premieres November 2nd on IFC. Please welcome to the show one of the hardest working women in show business, the illegitimate love child of Ernest Thesinger and Maria Ouspenskaya. Our pal Dana Gould.

That whole intro should end with, and still can't break through. And yet, he's still in the clubs. People, comedians he's never heard of are selling out the Normodome and stadiums. See him emcee on open mic night.

He's going to Minneapolis next week to do six shows in three days. Did we get the date right, the premiere date? Yes, you did. The first, they're sneaking two episodes. First of all, thank you for that. As a woman in comedy, it's not easy for me to assert myself. Don't you judge a boy's comedy. Neatly trimmed.

It really is. Neatly trimmed bush was my favorite part of that intro. The neatly trimmed bush was my favorite part of that intro. You're in town. I don't even think people have bushes at all anymore either. That's a dated reference. No, it is dated. Now, what are you feeling about a girl with a bush?

I honestly, if we're going to go there, I prefer it. Yo, yo, don't go there. There I said. No, well, I have three daughters. So the last time I saw a vagina with no hair on it, it was covered in its own feces. So, yeah, I don't like the denuded pedundum. I like a neatly trimmed bush. That's all I ask.

I like it big. I like it to look like Lenny of a Plymouth duster. Oh, yes. Yes. What a reference. You want it to look like a tarantula that's been run over on the highway. A bear cub that lost an argument with the steamroller. Yes.

But getting back to Stan against evil. Sure. You know who had a really big unruly bush? Here he goes. Joanne Worley. Rutherford Hayes. No. Jacqueline Onassis.

Yes, and I saw it. The Ron Galella picture. Yes, yes. That was a completely, that went up to her shoulder. Yeah, that was, yeah. It was more like a vest. Yeah, it started at her knees and went up to her shoulder. It looked like she was hiding behind a black kite.

And yet I saw those in Hustler, I believe. Yeah, back in the day. That was an unruly bush. Yeah, that's what really killed him. But you know someone, when you think of these old-time glamorous actresses like Ingrid Bergman or Rita Hayworth and Joan Crawford, they must have all had like this massive. Yeah, they didn't. They didn't. That's a new, relatively new thing that that level of personal grooming. Yeah. You look at, you know, Rita Hayworth. And yeah, she looked like an aerial photo of Angela Davis. an aerial photo of Angela Davis.

Yeah, yeah. And now even guys, like people, because I, you know, got divorced a couple years ago and had to date and didn't know how to date anymore. And it was, I've been, it's a joke for my act, but it was, it's true. It was like, I was just so trained as a husband. I didn't, you know, I just go up to women. Hi. So I was sitting there and I thought you might have a long list of chores and errands you wanted i know we've i know we just met but i thought you might want to tell me what i did wrong

and um that's funny maybe it was like do you manscape no i don't need it to look it's bad enough that it looks like chicken parts. I don't need it to look like chicken parts on the shelf at the store. I'm fine with it looking like chicken parts that have been thrown on the floor of a busy barber shop. I want to see you segue from this into George Zuko. I want to see how you artfully make the transition. You couldn't fit her bush under a fez. Speaking of fezes, the great George Zuko.

George Zuko had a very neatly trimmed bush. Dana sent me an email saying he just wanted to talk about George Zuko, Dwight Frye, and Lionel Atwill. Okay, now Lionel Atwill. Yeah, the big ones. Yeah. And for those of you who don't know Lionel Atwill, shame on you. Yeah.

Why are you listening to this podcast? When you see him like young Frankenstein. Yeah, that Kenny Mars is doing Lionel. Yeah, Kenny Mars. That's right. And he with the wooden arm. And so that's Lionel Atwell. Also famously played Dr. Cyclops.

Correct. Yes. Very good. Yes. And didn't he, wasn't he also one of the professor Moriarty's or was probably Zucco was. Yeah. With with Basil Rathbone. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Lionel Atwell, who's a very, very popular working actor in the 30s and 40s. And people forget that Hollywood and all of this debauchery isn't a new invention.

No. It goes all the way back. And Lionel Atwell, who's a very famous character actor, but if you read Hollywood Babylon. Oh, yeah. He also was, and I quote, an orgy master. You like that term. I do. I feel like the music behind this should be da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da And he got in trouble with the law a few times. Yeah, somebody was, you know, a lot of young actresses were known as the five o'clock girls.

You know, that's what they were calling. You know, you'd get a contract, you get a one-year contract with Metro-Golden-Mare, and they'd put you on salary, but basically it was like, go see this guy at five, and there you go. Oh, wow. Yeah, and Marilyn Monroe a famously a five o'clock girl and uh some of them uh some of them broke out of it and some of them didn't it was it was yeah it was it was it was the wild wild west at the time and uh um it was uh sort of an open secret and Lion Lionel Atwill, unfortunately, one of these girls happened to be underage and somebody told somebody. And it was – I don't think anybody cared, but they cared about it getting out. And when it looked like it was going to get out, poor Lionel Atwill got arrested.

Yeah, they said Lionel Atwill at one point showed up on the set of one of his movies crying because he really thought he was going to prison. Yeah. Yeah. Who was the guy who they found him in his bathtub and like S&M gear? He found dead. He was in his bathtub. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Albert Decker. Albert Decker. Albert Decker. He was Dr. Cyclops. Albert Decker was Dr. Cyclops. Not Lionel Lyle. Albert Decker. They found him hanging in his shower with a gag.

Full bush. Yeah. Full bush. No, I think it was a full Reagan. It was a full Eisenhower. He had a gag in his mouth on, you know, blindfold. He was chained. He was handcuffed.

Yeah. His nipples, he drew like little suns on them. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And then wrote obscene words and drawings all over his body. And the police came and said suicide. Yeah. Yeah. And then wrote obscene words and drawings all over his body. And the police came and said suicide. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. He has beautiful handwriting on his own back. Well, yes. Yeah. That's why he's in handcuffs. While in handcuffs and ballgames. He shot himself 13 times. He was so upset.

Like he was in handcuffs and yet he was still able to hang himself. So, like, Houdini was reading that going, how the fuck is this guy so good? Yeah. And there was also a fight. Now it's all coming back to me. And there was $72,000 in cash missing from his apartment. Oh, yes. He was just buying a new house.

And that went missing. But, yeah, because back then in the LAPD, it was just like, meh, pervo. Oh, yes. Right, suicide. Oh, well, another one, a horrible death was Raymond Navarro. Raymond Navarro. Yeah, I knew you were going there. Oh, what happened to Raymond Navarro?

That I don't know. He had two guys. Was male hustlers who killed him, supposedly? Yeah, two male hustlers. Yeah, allegedly. Allegedly. Was it male hustlers who killed him? Yeah, two male hustlers. Allegedly.

He had redecorated his room. And he said to describe how much money it cost to redecorate, he goes, something like, I have $10,000 in this room. And these two hustlers thought, oh, he's got actual $10,000. Oh, no. He meant he put it into this000. Oh, no. He meant he put it into this room. Oh, no. And they beat him for hours. And I think he, like, choked to death on his own blood or his teeth or something.

Yeah. They tortured him. And I think they got away with it. And he must have been like, you idiots. Yes. What I meant, I put $10,000. Yes. No, you morons. Yeah. And I think they got away with it. And he must have been like, you idiots. Yes. What I meant, I put $10,000. Yes. No, you morons.

Yeah, and I think they got away with it. Yeah. Oh, God. Well, that was another really gross one is Montgomery Clift. When he got in his car accident, he was leaving Elizabeth Taylor's house, driving down Laurel Canyon, where I drive every day, taking my kids to school. He got in a horrible car accident. They heard the crash.

Elizabeth Taylor literally drove down and saved his life by yanking his teeth out of his throat. That's what I heard. She was reaching into his mouth. Yeah, to pull his teeth out. And pulling the teeth that were choking him. Yeah. God. And there's a movie.

I forget the name of the movie, but, like, in the first half of the movie, he's fine. In the second half of the movie, something just looks off. Oh, wow. And that's the one that he had the car accident right in the middle of it. And there's a story Murph Griffin told that he got, you know, a knock on his door and he answered it. And some guy was standing there. And Murph was saying, yeah, can I help you? And the guy said, you don't know me either, huh? And it was Montgomery Cliff after the accident.

Somebody told us that story. I think I told it about 20 times. But yeah, he was going from house to house of people who knew him to see if anyone could recognize him. Oh, my God. Now, I met Merv Griffin. Did you do Merv's show? No, I never did Merv. I met him.

I never did the show. A lot of people have done Merv. But he owned a place in Palm Springs. He owned like a resort in Palm Springs. He owned like a resort in Palm Springs. And a friend of ours had their birthday party there. And I did. It was a big, fancy, schmancy birthday party. And I wore like a white tuxedo with a fez.

It was that kind of like a big, fancy birthday party. I swear to Christ. I turned around. There was Merv Griffin. And he just went, ooh, a fez. Ava Gabor had one of those. I'm not making that up. I have no reason to make that up.

My new favorite story on the show. But I love that he name-checked one of the Gabor sisters in like a seven-second meeting. Why? She was one of his sisters. I just have to mention, it was her or me. I have to mention Ava, Zsa Zsa, or Mrs. Miller. And then I'm good. It's an official meeting. She was one of the covers, Ava, Zsa Zsa, or Mrs. Miller. And then I'm good. It's an official meeting.

She was one of the covers, Ava Gabor. Sure, sure. Yeah. But it was really funny the way he just... Ava Gabor. Okay, good. Yeah, Mrs. Miller. Good, okay, good.

Has Mrs. Miller ever come up on this show before? I don't think so. Oh, wow. That's a great old reference, too. Mrs. Miller. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Merv Love, I will say, in the seven seconds that I met him, lovely guy. Yeah. Seemed like a great guy. Yeah. Man with two brains. Did that? Sure. Oh, yes.

There's a sense of humor about himself. His headstone says, I won't be right back after these messages. Oh, good for him. Yeah. He had a sense of humor. You know, the at-will thing makes me wonder if- Not like that son of a bitch, Mike Douglas. Bob Einstein was on with us a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, wow. He told some wonderful Mike Douglas stories. But the Atwell situation makes me wonder if there were Hollywood fixers involved. Oh, tons, yeah. In those days, but even like Universal, which wasn't a top tier. Well, people like Eddie Mannix and all those guys. Yeah, they made problems go away all the time. That Atwell story is the kind of –

I heard both Clark Gable, John Huston, and Busby Berkeley got into drunken car accidents where they killed people. Uh-huh. And it was just swept away. Yeah. Yeah. Just swept away. Yeah. And there was a huge problem with a lot of these big East Coast investors were brought out West and they were going to have a wild West party. And I think it was MGM.

And they had all the five o'clock girls. And it was just a debauchery. And one of these girls like blew the whistle like, hey. Wow. We were just supposed to show up and fuck these dudes. And it was like – she never – she found herself back in Wisconsin. Did you see the Coen Brothers movie about the fixer? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was pretty good.

It was – Hail Caesar. Yeah, kind of accurate I think. There was a lot of really interesting, it was just, especially Metro-Golden-Mare, which was, you know, it was like the, it was like an economy unto itself. It was so powerful. There's a lot of stuff that went on that just got swept It makes you wonder why some things surfaced and like Arbuckle and Lionel Atwill, why some, how some things came to the surface and others did not.

I think when everybody's doing something dirty and some guy gets caught, everybody even psychologically projects their own guilt onto that person. Oh, yes. So it's like, oh, Fatty Arbuckle didn't do anything. No. He didn't do anything. No. He didn't do any. That whole story that he, and to this day, when you say Fatty Arbuckle. You think Coke bottle. Yeah. Coke bottle, he raped her with a Coke bottle.

Virginia Raff. Yeah. Yes. And first of all, she was like. He didn't make love to her with a Coke bottle. No, no. He was acquitted, finally. Yeah, but it didn't make love to her with a Coke bottle. No, no. He was acquitted, finally. Yeah, but it didn't matter because his career was totally destroyed.

Annihilated. And she died, I think it was a botched abortion. Yeah, yeah. It was internal bleeding after a botched abortion. He had nothing to do with it. He called the police. He did everything. And I think the reason the Coke bottle

was there is she was complaining that her stomach hurt. And he thought that would ease it. Yeah, and there's all those you know, and I think it was because he was Fatty Arbuckle that he was like a family-friendly comedian. Oh, yeah.

That always and you see that nowadays with people that have – they do something wrong and they're a family-friendly person. Who we named some people. I hate to. They're friends. We all know. They're all lovely people.

I love them. But yeah, people just point and shriek. And there's always got to be like the scapegoat at any time. Exactly. Yeah. It's just like, what were their names? The two German black guys. Huh?

The singers. Oh, Milli Vanilli? Milli Vanilli. Milli Vanilli. Yeah. You don't hear just the phrase German black guys. You never hear that. They originally called themselves German black guys.

They called themselves those Nazi schwarzes. That didn't stick, huh? Yeah. How did Nazi schratze not work? People are troubled spelling it. Milli Vanilli is German for Nazi schratze. Not a lot of people know that. And I felt like with Milli Vanilli, they got crucified.

And I felt like with Milli Vanilli, they got crucified. And, of course, now nobody has their voice dubbed in. Yeah. And there are no tricks in the music business with people. No, not at all. Well, and then there's things like, you know, the Fatty Arbuckle story is like Pete Townsend. Pete Townsend was sexually abused as a child not just anybody writes the song fiddle about

and he later in his life had this idea that all of these illegal underage child pornography sites were still you still had to give a credit card to access them,

even though they were on the dark internet and what he wanted to do. And this is his, his crime was being a dumb, naive rockstar. He thought, well, you know what I'll do? I will go onto one of these sites and then trace the charge to what bank is

handling these, then I'll report the bank to the police and I will expose this giant crime. What he didn't realize is like people are already doing that. And he called the police and said, I'm going to do this. And they've been great. And then his name came up and another, you know, it was like policeman A knows he's doing it. Policeman B doesn't know. So he got arrested for accessing child pornography. And another you know it's like policeman a knows he's doing it policeman b doesn't know so he got arrested for accessing child pornography and you know when this is no i am but i was researching this thing well if you look he never uh was charged with anything he was a he was acquitted as part of his plea deal he has to register i think as a sex offender but he didn't

do anything he did exactly what he said he would do. But it's just that third rail of behavior. It's just like, nah, kids don't care. Yeah. As opposed to Gary Glitter, who was actually up to stuff. Yeah. Yeah. If you've ever seen Mr. Glitter's Neighborhood, it's a children's show. A raincoat is an outfit in your neighborhood.

But yeah, but poor Pete Townsend was just guilty of being a dumb, naive rock star. Let the police do that. Let the police handle it. Yeah, I think they've got much more advanced methods than you. I love when people get so out of touch. Like, have you ever read the book Elvis, What Happened? Like, towards the end, like the Vegas, like, he would literally, like, pull the car over and move, like, think he'd moved clouds with his hands. It's really – it's so – like Elvis in the early 70s and Howard Hughes in the 70s, when it gets so gothic and baroque and just bizarre and just the depths of depravity and debauchery that these people fall into, I can't get enough of it. Now, somebody told me that Judy Garland – forget it.

I mean she was totally gone for years in her later years. And according, I don't know why, but she used to shit in a bucket, this guy told me. Yeah, I know of an actress. This show's taking a strange turn. We'll be talking about Lady from Shanghai. Wow. How do we get back to Dwight Frye? We'll talk about the Bicep of the Thief in a minute.

Dorothy wanted a toilet. The lion wanted courage. And Judy Garland wanted courage to shit in a toilet. I know of an actress, a popular actress, who would only wipe her backside with baby wipes, but wouldn't put them into the toilet in her trailers. So she would throw them into the shower stall, you know, in those little trailers. Oh, jeez. And the PA's job was to, after she used it, they would have to go in and clean up all these baby women.

Oh. Yeah, I'll tell you. And who's this actress? I'll tell you, I don't know. Was she a... She's alive. I don't want to get sued. We'll be besieged by requests.

Could she be described as a pretty woman? Oh, Lord. Or a golden girl, perhaps? No, I'll tell you after. I don't... Get us sued. Go ahead. I don't want to get sued.

Was it Susan Anton? No. I just wanted to see. Because she was golden girl. Yes. Nice. That's where I was going. Was she a funny girl?

It rhymes with mailer miffed, but I really don't want to... I don't want to put mine. Let's get back on the train here, Dana. Does it rhyme with hit me bears? It rhymes with blishel blow blama, but I can't tell you who it is. Some shows go so off the rails so quickly. Very on a blunt. All right. I found this interesting.

I listened to a couple of podcast interviews with you. I'm going to stay on the cards. No matter what it takes. He's like Trump on the teleprompter. He's going to hammer this thing out. That's it. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. And now back to the show.

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In season three, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again.

All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. I found this interesting. I did not know. I never thought of this. Was it Pone Horford? Oh, come now. What was that one?

Pone Horford. Oh. Oh, okay. Lucille LeSueur? Was that not her real name? Joan Crawford? Yes, yes. Louise LeSueur.

Was it Hedy Vavis? I've lost control. Marilyn and... It was a ventriloquist dummy. He says Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe. These would all make great Drew Friedman strips, by the way, wouldn't they? We were talking about Drew before we turned the mics on.

I didn't know. I never thought of them. What movie were you in with this actress? I've never worked with her. This was a PA told me, like, the worst thing. What movie was she working on? No, it was a show. She's a TV actress.

And it was just a PA. I was like, what was the worst, like, biggest asshole, worst thing you ever heard? And it was like, this was the worst thing that I'd ever heard about. So she would just. It could have just. This could be one of those apocryphal stories like Sylvester Stallone getting a blowjob and his mic is still on. You know that one.

Oh, yeah. Sure. We've heard that one. It would have been funny if the voice came up like, cut the bulls, stroke the chef, now say my name. Phil, that's the Thelon. Who is he in there with?

By the way, every story we tell on this show is an apocryphal story. He's in there with Moms Mabley. Boy, oh boy. He's in there with Peg Bracken. Peg Bracken. Peg Bracken. Arnold Stang is giving Arnold Schwarzenegger a bloodshot in the back of his head. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold's getting blown by Arnold Stang. Now, you said Dwight Frye.

I heard Dwight Frye was a Christian scientist, and that is why he died of a heart. It was probably a preventable heart attack. Oh, he didn't want to go to a doctor? He didn't want to go to the doctor, yeah. He died on a bus, did he not? Died on a bus going to work at the aircraft. He was a tool maker. Yeah, yeah, at Douglas Aircraft or something down in Laguna Beach or something, yeah.

And I think his last words were, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. Very underrated actor. He was terrific. Renfield, we should explain to the, hmm. Very underrated actor. He was terrific. Renfield, we should explain to the other life. He was Renfield in the original Dracula. He was Fritz the Hunchback in the original Frankenstein. Yes, and then he came back as Carl. In Bride of Frankenstein, yes.

Very good. And he, especially in Dracula, which is not a great movie. Yeah. The first 10, 15 minutes sets up every trope of every horror movie you will see for the rest of your life. Oh, yes. But then it's a play. It's a film play. Full stage bound, yeah.

It's very boring. There are parts of Dracula where you go, wow. I mean, where there are actual camera shots. Yeah. Where you go, wow, this could have been. It's not like they didn't have the talent to do it but i think somewhere along the way he said no no we just the studio said you know we want just the play yeah yeah i think todd browning who directed it was kind of over it by then and uh

because he was a giant director in the he he directed all of lon cheney senior's great films and i think he was just over it by that time. And it was like, whatever. And I believe, I might be mistaken, but I believe Carl Freund was the DP. Yeah, he was the cinematographer. Right. And he was, anything that's good in that movie was him. And he later directed, I think, Mark of the Vampire, which is a lot of those things.

But like Bela Lugosi, all the roles, Helen Chandler, David Manners, they're all very sweaty and stage bound and very that over the top. Can't you say I love you? Yes. But Dwight Frye gives a very modulated, moderate, modern performance. Like in that in the opening scene where Bela Lugosi goes, Mr. Renfield. And he just goes, it's good to see you. Like it's a very genuine laugh because he's just behaving like a regular guy. And like Lugosi, he was the absolute last choice.

Yeah. And without Lugosi, can you imagine what an awful film that would have been? Yeah, it was nothing. And yeah, Lugosi is one of of these could not buy a fucking break. No. With a with a get a break free card. I could not get your goddamn break. He went right from A-list star to immediately Z-level.

Yeah. And I think it was. Well, I don't know what it was. I assume when he turned on Frankenstein, people just thought the guy who ran Universal. Oh, Carlyle. Carlyle. Carlyle. Yeah, they just thought, well, he's a pain in the ass.

Screw it. And then when Karloff came in, like, all right, we'll use Karloff instead. And that's why that scene in Ed Wood is so brilliant when Martin Landau just is standing in the swamp with a rubber octopus and he just goes, you know, I turned down Frankenstein. I don't think he really said that, but that it's, it's so, it's so beautiful when he does that whole monologue. And that's one of those moments that movie where you, I did have like a transcendent moment.

Like I I'm watching a movie about Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi is talking about turning down Frankenstein and it's beautiful. It's really well. Who made – how did this get made? It's like to paraphrase Andy Kindler, like the target audience of this movie is men my age who are me. It's a great film. We had scott and larry here yeah they're friends yeah since seeing that movie they've become really good friends of mine and and it's but like that specific movie is is not lost did you ever see another movie they were involved in um autofocus oh yeah yes yes with greg story. The scene with a guy who looks just like Klink.

Yes. Is feeling the girl's tits and Hogan's fantasy. I was just like, this is really happening. The guy who looks like Colonel Klink is having a sex fantasy of Bob Crane's. It's so insane, these things. And, you know, again, nothing is crazier than what really happens. Yeah. It's like the two main Nazis were Jews.

Klink escaped Germany. Yeah. Werner Klemperer. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. They escaped. Yeah.

His father was Otto Klemperer who was a very popular composer. Yeah. That's right. that's right. That's right. Yeah. And John Banner, who was Schultz, he was actually in the camps with his parents. I did not know that. I didn't know that either.

And somehow they didn't have it as organized. And it was the beginning of the concentration camps. And they somehow survived this. And what is interesting is that you couldn't do that show today, but you could do it in 1966, even though the people that were there at the time actually experienced it.

Like, we don't know. No one around today, you know, that would be involved in creating this show has any firsthand experience with Nazis' concentration camps in World War II. But you couldn't do that show. Back then everybody was in World War II or knew people and remembered it, but they could do that show then. It's amazing how that – Yeah. What's his name?

People just after 50 years went, you know, the Nazis really were bad. Now you forget his name already. The French guy. Robert Clary. Robert Clary. And suddenly people just, after 50 years, went, you know, the Nazis really were bad. Now you forget his name already. The French guy. Robert Clary. Robert Clary. Robert Clary. His parents, his whole family were killed.

I did not know that. Yeah. Well, you know, it's the weird thing is what did the, this is, I don't know what the decision on this was, but, you know, in the concentration, in the camps, they used ovens. So would a clink use the cooler? Let's just go in the opposite direction entirely. You'll just be – everyone's so cold. That's the problem. I used to do that Hogan's Heroes bit in your act. Oh, yes.

About the pitching the series. I used to say, how did one guy walk into a network one day and go, here's the idea. A group of soldiers in a Nazi prison camp. It's a comedy! Doesn't the guy say, give me 26? We should get Al Ruddy. You know Al Ruddy

produced The Godfather and also Hogan's Heroes. Oh, I didn't know he also produced Hogan's Heroes. And there's not a lot of people still alive. Clary's still alive, but all the rest of the cast is gone. The Hogan's Heroes cast., I didn't know he also produced Hogan's Heroes. And there are not a lot of people still alive. Clary's still alive, but all the rest of the cast is gone. Yeah. The Hogan's Heroes cast. But that is so weird. And I still watch them.

Do you watch them on MeTV? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're fascinating. And it's, yeah, those, like a lot of stuff, you watch it now and that almost uniquely is insane when you look at it now. Oh, my God, yes. It's like, how, there's certain things that are certain things that are so, and also, in the early Bond, Connery Bond movies, he's a serial rapist. Oh, yes.

And Thunderball, he out and out rapes a woman. He goes into a steam room, and she's in there there and she goes, oh, no, Mr. Bond. And he just stands in front of the door and shuts it and goes, oh, yes. And closes the door. Well. Oh, yeah. At a certain point in between 1965 and today, rape went from being this thing that cool guys did. You were talking last week.

We were talking about the Matt Helm pictures and the Coburn picture, the Flynn picture. Gilbert was remarking about how incredibly sexist they were. Yeah, they're insane. I'm not some big feminist by any means, but I watch those and I go, wow, this is

really... It's insane, and you know, and then the movie, they just go on with it. Like the woman never shows up later with a bunch of cops. That's him. In the tuxedo and the jet pack. Did you have sex with her after she said no? Well, you might say I got on with a pressing engagement.

I can't stay mad at you. Guy court. He's so good with those puns. how can i convict him yeah well ian fleming who wrote the bond books was incredibly he said in one of the books or in an interview like every woman enjoys a soft rape or something like that and incredibly racist uh you know in all of the books the book live and let die might as well have been written by David Duke. I mean, it's so brutally racist. And it's, you know, it was not, you know, it was within our lifetime that this stuff

was just common. It's so funny that we were talking like how when Hogan Sears was on, it was really like like the Holocaust was an hour away. Yeah. I mean it was not long ago. No, and I don't know if because it was so recently that people were – like it hadn't sunk in yet that they were still in shock, like a post-cultural shock. That's 20 years. Yeah.

65. Yeah. Yeah. cultural shock that's 20 years yeah 65 yeah yeah if people were still like in shock about it in the way that like people like you know they wouldn't you know people that served in world war ii like didn't talk about it i guess yeah and then one day just before they died you know i saw the guy's head off anyway what else did you watch growing up and matt you're from massachusetts yeah what did you watch growing up? You're from Massachusetts. Yeah. What did you watch as a kid? You know, all the same stuff. My favorite shows, I loved, you know, the original Star Trek was a big part of my childhood because it was a very chaotic house. I had four brothers and a sister.

It was just always chaos. I think there have been two occasions in my life when my entire family and I sat at the dinner table at the same time. Um, it was just people came and went and my parents were drunk all the time and my brothers were drunk all the time. It was really just madness. And, um, but every night at six Star Trek was on. And so like that was not to get too like airy fairy, but it was like, that was a great,

I needed some kind of stability and that was a star trek shot at six on channel 56 wow yeah and creature double features on saturday from 12 to 4. do you have karloff's chiller too yeah we had chiller we had uh i was not chiller thriller thriller sorry yeah thriller and uh twilight zone was big carlo yeah yeah did you have a local gallery was big night gallery weloff. Yeah. Night Gallery was big. Night Gallery. We've talked about Night Gallery. Now, both Thriller, which I hadn't seen for years. Uh-huh. They're out now.

I was a kid. Now they're on TV. They're on DVD, too. And they don't hold up. No. It was not as good as—Alfred Hitchcock Presents is pretty good. Perry Mason holds up like a— a, although none of those trials, every one of those trials is a mistrial. Oh, of course. You can't stand up and go, I did it.

There's a procedure. You know, what drives me nuts is those things look dopey enough in the old, uh, courtroom shows and courtroom movies. Yeah. And then they come out with a few good men. And Jack Nicholson goes, you know, I did it. I killed him. And I thought, what? This is what I've been sitting for two hours to find out? There's an, it was that other movie, Black Rain. Oh, no, there's some movie where Sean Connery.

That was Mary Vannelli. Sean Connery. That was Mary Vannelli. Sean Connery. Sean Connery is researching a murder in Japan or something. I think it's Black Rain. And it literally ends with, like, Michael Douglas. And at the end of the movie, he goes, he did it. And then the guy goes, like, I didn't do it. He did it.

And that's the end of the movie. Oh, God. But, you know, I remember even as a kid, there was some night galleries I kind of liked, but I always thought they don't hold up. No, they don't. Although the Roddy McDowell one is scary. Oh, that pilot episode. Potify. Come here, Potify.

That's pretty terrifying. Yeah, the pilot episode's good. It was written by Rod Serling. Steven Spielberg directed one of those segments. Yeah, that's pretty terrifying. Yeah. The pilot episode's good. It was written by Rod Serling. Steven Spielberg directed one of those segments. Yeah. It was his first job. That's the one. Oh, Richard Kiley is the Nazi who's trying to escape.

And Joan Crawford. And Tom Bosley. And Owen Borford. Yeah. Owen Borford went through a lot of baby wipes. But all of those, the night gallery ones, when I watch those, that is everything that was wrong with 70s TV. Yes. Yes. And they're really cursed by, like, Artie Johnson is the devil.

Bert Convy is a Vietnam War veteran who becomes a tree or something. Well, they had one big scary story about either a haunted house or the devil that as a married couple was Bob Crane from Hogan Sears and Joanne Worley. And that's the one, you see the shadow typing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually met Rodney McDowell. My friend was a very good friend of his and actually owns the Lawgiver statue, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually met Roddy McDowell. My friend was a very good friend of his and actually owns the Lawgiver statue, the nine-foot ape statue from Planet of the Apes. Oh, my God. Wow. And my friend Brian owns that.

And he was very good friends with Roddy, and I actually have a picture of myself and Roddy McDowell in front of that statue that my friend Brian took. McDowell in front of that statue. Oh, my friend Brian, my friend Brian took. And and he was he was he was famous for being like everyone's friend. Like he would do like he would have parties and you're like, you know, Gregory Peck, Fred Grandy from the Love Boat. You both play backgammon, you know, and he would mix and match people and everybody loved ryan mctowell he was everybody's friend and uh he lived in his in this beautiful house uh and right across the street was uh the guy that owns los angeles angels the uh cowboy gene autry gene autry lived right across the street and they both died on the same day wow in 1998 i didn't know that and then um a person bought the house from ryan mctowell and then we bought it from him. So we lived there for years and years and years.

Not haunted. Wherever he went, he's happy he was there. But there's a picture of me and Rodney McDowell in front of the Planet of the Apes logger statue hanging in his old house. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. We had Ileana Douglas on the show. She also told me stories about going to his house a lot. She's close to Roddy. Yeah, she told cool. That's cool. We had Ileana Douglas on the show. She also told me stories about going to his house a lot.

She's close to Roddy. Yeah, she told me a lot of stories about going there. And perfect segue, Dr. Zaius. Yes. We didn't play. No, but...

That was another famous British queen, Maurice Evans. Maurice Evans. But since we're talking about Planet of the Apes, there's some wonderful clips on the internet of you...

I have to do Roddy first. Oh, he was. Here's Roddy from that night gallery. Potify. Come here, Potify. What's amazing in Battle for the Planet of the Apes, where he manages to be a furious, angry military leader and incredibly fey at the same time. Fight like apes. Fight like apes.

and incredibly fey at the same time. Fight like apes. Apes, just fight like apes. And I actually thought in the new Andy Serkis movies that they should still have given him Rodney McDowell's voice, like even though he's this big photo-realistic chimp. He's like, Caesar is home. We must fight the humans. Was Ozzie Davis in that Night Gallery episode?

Yes, he was. He was Portafoy. And Greg Nicotero, who if you watch The Walking Dead, you see his name on the credits. He's the executive producer of The Walking Dead and one of the big directors. He paid an artist to do a copy of that painting and has another painting with the body coming out of the cemetery. Remember that? Oh, yes.

And he has it in his house and then occasionally he'll just switch them out to see if his kids notice. Oh, wow. That's fun. And I saw you in that short film he made where you played Lon Chaney Jr. I played Lon Chaney Jr. Yeah, I played. Through the transformation. Yeah, Greg's a good buddy of mine.

And I was in the middle of doing a pilot for ABC and Greg called me up and said, hey, I'm going to direct this short movie. I'd helped. I'd worked on it with him so I knew what he was doing. And he said, do you want to be in it? And I this is the week i'm produced i can't do it we're in production he goes i really wanted you to play the wolf man we're going to do a transformation like they did in the 40s and i literally like moved the production and to do it because it's like how do you not do that oh my god yeah and it's itchy as And it's itchy as hell. It's itchy as hell. You know what's funny about it? No wonder Lon drank.

Even when I was a kid and I'd watch these transformation, I knew how they did it. Yeah. I could figure it out. But I think they're still so much more effective than when they do the computerized morphing. Oh, I heard the most

brilliant thing, and it's attributed to Roger Ebert. And I just heard it the other day. And it's actually something that I hammered home on Stand Against Evil because that's 98% practical effects. And that's that. It was about stop motion animation. It's like King Kong. Yeah. Stop motion looks fake but feels real. Yeah. Stop motion looks fake, but feels real.

Yes. CGI looks real, but feels fake. That's interesting. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's so brilliant. That's exactly. I can always tell.

Even the best CGI I can tell. Because with King Kong, I mean, that was like the most primitive stop action. Kong, I mean, that was like the most primitive stop action. And I mean, as a kid, I knew exactly it was a miniature doll. And yet, when you watch that, you know you could touch King Kong. And you don't feel like in the new King Kong movies, you can't touch that. Yeah, it's not tactile. There's no tactile. And you know what's funny?

When you look at the original King Kong, it looks like his fur is moving. Yes, yeah. That's the animator's thumb. That's when they grab the armature to move it. It's his thumb prints, but it looks great. People started praising them, saying what a brilliant idea to have his hair stand on hand in those scenes. And my friend owns the only, my friend Bob Burns owns King Kong, the 18-inch armature. Oh, we got to get Bob on the show.

How's he doing? Bob's good. He's actually doing very well. Good. We should talk to Bob Burns. I was wondering how he was doing because I'd love to talk to Bob Burns. You can Skype him or come out. I don't know if he's flying anywhere soon. We'll do a Skype with him. I could set that up for you. I would love

to talk to Bob Burns. Oh, Bob's the best. Bob's great. He'll tell you stories about Juan Chaney Jr. and stuff. He told me this story. The most amazing thing that I've ever happened, like one of those, I know Bob very well. You know, I'm a monster guy and I'm in the monster circles. I don't know. I don't know. You know, you either know who Forrest Ackerman was or you don't.

Or Heidi Saha, if you know what that is. Oh, was that the girl with the yellow eyes? She was this 14, 13-year-old girl that they did a photo book about. It was kiddie porn. Yes, and Isaac Asbell was like, I love her. She's wonderful. They had her in like a loincloth. It was insane.

It is this crazy anomaly that you couldn't do today. It was acceptable child porn. Yes, and there was literally like, what a lucky chair to have been sat in by Heidi Saha. It just was so insane. But you either know these people or not. At Bob Burns' house, I have held in my hand the flying saucer that Bob Burns, I have held in my hand Joan Crawford's bush.

The flying saucer that Ed would— That bucket of shit from Judy Garland. I held in my hand. The flying saucer from Plan 9 from Outer Space. Oh, wow. That he— That's cool. You can see the holes drilled into it.

You can see the square that they glued on the bottom to make it match the set. And I remember he told a story that when Lon Chaney Jr. died, nobody wanted to bother to talk about him. And I think he, you know, gathered a lot of enemies over the years because he was a drunk and everything. But he went over to Glenn Strange's house. Yeah, well, Glenn Strange was like Bob Burns' dad, really. Like, they were profoundly close. And Bob is a young man.

Because for people who don't know, like, in Abbott and Costello, I mean, Frankenstein, House of Frankenstein, House of Dracula, Frankenstein Monsters, Glenn Strange. A lot of the images that people have in their mind of Frankenstein is actually Glenn Strange, not Boris Karloff. Yes. He was also the bartender on Gunsmoke. Yes, he was. When I was a kid, I remember this, Boris Karloff died and the New York Times had a picture of Glenn Strange. strange oh that's

depressing i remember that yeah but uh but oh here's here's one of these things i'm very proud of knowing even though i think all old monster geeks know this in abedin costello meet frankenstein there's one part where frankenstein throws the girl through the window and that's Lon Chaney Jr. Yeah, it's Lon Chaney Jr. Yeah, it is Lon Chaney Jr. Yeah. Because Glenn Strange had sprained his ankle or something.

And there's really – have you seen the – there's outtakes of that movie on YouTube. There's a reel of outtakes of Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein on YouTube that you can see. Yeah. There's three really fascinating things. One, there's a scene where Abbott sits on, no, Costello sits on Glenn Strange, which is so

insane to see. And then there's another one, you just see every time Lou Costello messes up, you just see Lon Chaney shrug and go back to one. He's so over it. He's not entertained by Lou Costello at all. And you can hear all the like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, people who have to be there.

And then there's one where Lou Costello says the most insanely sexist thing to the actress in the scene. I'm going to paraphrase it, but it's something to the effect of, uh, uh, he steps on her line or something. He goes, Oh, I'm sorry.

And she goes, it's okay. She goes, okay. And then he says something like, and the only time it's going to be okay is when you say go and then it's okay. And you just hang on. Oh,

it's like, she's just like smiles. And then there's also a part. What was the name of, uh, I forget his name, Avid and Costello's friend that they hired to be a kibitzer

on... Right. I know the guy you're talking about. The guy that plays Mr. McDougal? No, no, it's not Mr. McDougal, but he does pop up in the movie. He's like some little... What are you talking about? Not Bobby Barber. Oh, that could be.

The little bald guy that was in the series? I don't know. The one Drew's obsessed with, Bobby Barber. But he— I find that hard to believe. Yes, I know you do. They hired him. They hired him to keep the levity up on the show. Oh, that's fantastic.

And it's like you see him like where Lugosi is doing a scene and he sneaks up behind Lugosi with a cape around his face. And Lugosi just kind of looks over. And it's like, you know, if I were there, too, I'd feel like, can we film this and get the fuck home? Yeah, I'm 57. I'm a morphine addict. Can I just go home? Can I just go home and shoot up, please? I heard you're doing a podcast about horror comedies with Malton, with Leonard Malton.

You have? Oh, no, I did Leonard's show. You did Leonard's show. Yeah, I was talking about horror comedies. Would you call that the most, would you call Evan Costello and Mead Frankenstein the most successful of that? Yeah, and I've been talking about this a lot because of Stand Against Evil, because there's there's there are there are comedies that are set in the world of horror like Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. And then there are horror films that have comedy in them and they're different. Yeah.

And, you know what? I think Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein and Young Frankenstein are probably the two most famous horror comedies and a movie that brought this up with Leonard Maltin that I think is painfully painfully painfully underrated is The Ghost of Mr. Chicken

which is a Don Knotts film that has every character actor in the 60s in it and is really funny frame one to the end of the credits it's a great haven't seen it in years but it's really sort of an outgrowth of the griffith show absolutely and it's don knots is firing on all cylinders it's really funny it's really great then there are things like an american werewolf in lond, which is a horror movie. Yes. But it's funny. Yeah.

Because the people in the horror movie are behaving sort of normally. Yes. Instead of in the heightened way that a horror film requires. But the horror is not aware that there's comedy going on. Like the scary stuff is scary. Yeah. And that's what Stand Against Evil is. It's basically a sitcom that's trapped in a horror movie.

And but we've been talking about that a lot. And but it's hard because there are seven trillion ways to do it wrong. And that happens all the time. You know what? What gets me is like after Airplane and Naked Gun, people would watch these movies and go, oh, okay, I think I get it now. I'll make my own like that. And they're always horrible. Yeah, they're always awful. Saturday the 14th being a great example of a terrible movie directed by Richard Benjamin, who's no dummy. Yeah.

But it doesn't work. And made some good movies, like My Favorite Year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's weird that they't work. And made some good movies, like My Favorite Year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's weird that they should work. And then there's movies like Beetlejuice, which on paper shouldn't work. Yeah. And it does work. Or Ghostbusters, which shouldn't really work. I remember they used to try to hire, they used to figure, well, we'll get Leslie Nielsen.

And then we'll just do stuff that people recognize. Yeah, they did a fugitive parody. Oh, yes. And 2001, a space travesty. Is that a movie? Oh, you owe it to yourself to see it. Zero laugh. I think there's an exorcist.

I think he did one called Repossessed. Yes. Yes. Yeah. With Linda Blair. Yeah, with Linda Blair. And then Dracula Dead and Loving It, which, you know, it's like that's what we all kind of look away. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of those movies that you don't want to see.

That you go, Mel, no. Yeah, you don't we talked about Ed Wood, which I think should be enshrined in the National Mall. Like that movie is so brilliant and so beautiful. Every performance is great. And just every frame is beautiful in that movie. And Tim Burton clearly, it resonated with him. And I think it paralleled his relationship with Vincent Price in a very strange way and I ended up living that movie and I'll tell you that later

and then he makes Dark Shadows and Planet of the Apes it's like how can you hit it so hard and then miss it so thoroughly you're clearly brilliant what happens i don't know maybe it wasn't on the page yeah what i i don't get it but i i was a big fan of of all that

you know edward and you know that whole world was sort of like um i was into it as everybody else and wanted to uh I had a show. The only job I've ever been qualified to do that I've ever wanted to do is host horror movies. Oh, yes. And I have friends that turn to classic movies. I'm like, let me do it. Just fly me down once a month. We'll knock out four of them.

Oh, yeah. I'll do it. You don't have to pay me. I just want to do it. Well, we got to run – you know. It's just like i did uh on usa i i well usa but i also was on uh the essentials turn of classic movies with robert osborne right and i picked four movies and we talked and i remember you, I got some money for it, a tremendous amount.

But I thought, they're paying me for this? Yeah, yeah. To me, I felt like I would gladly sit with Robert Osborne for 10 hours and talk all day. We had him here. Yeah, he was terrific. Well, yeah. Ileana does a great job, too, by the way. Yes.

On TCM. Ben Mankiewicz just interviewed me as Dr. Zaius in front of Planet of the Apes. Yes. Which I'll have to send you the link just interviewed me as Dr. Zaius in front of Planet of the Apes. Yes. Which I'll have to send you the link because it only aired in theaters. But I did it. They did it because they showed Planet of the Apes in theaters. Yeah. And I have – because of Greg Nicotero, I have access to that makeup.

And I had done it before on YouTube. I did – it was a sketch I wrote for the Ben Stiller Show and we got canceled before I got a chance to do it. But it was Dr. Zaias doing Mark Twain tonight. It's great. And so it's on YouTube. And then he goes, can we interview you as Dr. Zayas? And I did it like I was on Merv. I was just talking.

He was, well, I was doing, how did I get the film? I was doing with Six You Get Egg Roll at the Pasadena Playhouse with a very young Lindsay Wagner, who's a delight. And you need to get her on this show. You know, just like Suzanne Flechette, who's a delight. And you need to get her on this show. You know, just like those, Suzanne Fletchette, who's a love.

She's, you know, I, she lives in Ohio now has horses. I see her occasionally, but so long story longer, I saw Ed Wood. I was so fascinated by that.

And I had a friend, a friend of a friend knew Myla Nermy, who was Vampyra. And I interviewed her for this thing I did on the Sci-Fi Channel called The Big Scary Movie Show that was hosting horror movies for Halloween week in 1996 or 7. And I became very good friends with Mila Nermy. We became very close.

And ended up basically recreating Edward's relationship with Bela Lugosi. Wow. I took care of her for the last for the last 15 years of her life and um you know ended up moving her into another apartment and and and you know just kind of taking care of her uh but it was funny it was like i i was a fan of that movie and then i lived that movie i would get those 12 o'clock phone calls i think there's someone breaking into that no it's it's a raccoon when larry and Scott were on this show, they wrote Problem Child.

Yeah. And I asked them, I said, I see a connection with Problem Child and every movie you've done after that. There's some sort of weird connection. What's the connection? Well, in some ways, number one, that they were like totally disrespected. Right. The problem child, even though it was so popular. Yeah. And so the idea of being like a joke in the business, but still being popular. And so and so they follow that with, you know, movies like Ed Wood or like Eyes. Yeah. Which were popular. Big Eyes. Yeah. Paintings. Oh, Big Eyes, yeah.

Paintings, but everyone looked down on them. Well, the original – Ed Wood was originally supposed to be directed by Michael Lehman who had written – who had directed Hudson Hawk. It was a huge bomb. Oh, my God. Yeah. Right. And they wanted to do – the people who wrote the most critically lambasted movie of the year and the guy who directed the biggest bomb of the year are going to make a biopic about the worst director of all time. That was like the joke originally.

And then they brought Tim in to produce it, to get it made. And then Tim read it and said, oh, I think I might want to direct this. I think I might want to direct this. But he had a pay or play at Columbia to do a movie called Mary Riley with Bulia Roberts. Yes. With who? Hobbit. Yeah.

And he goes, and he said, literally it was like, well, see what you can do. So they wrote the script that he, and he literally like Tim had like a, if you can get me a script in,

in six weeks, that's the end of my window for Mary Riley. And, uh, and, like Tim, had like, if you can get me a script in six weeks, that's the end of my window for Mary Riley. And Larry says, I came home one day and I read the script. And it was on Friday night and I came home and there was a message on my answering machine. It was like, Larry, it's Tim. I read the script. I love it. This is going to be my next movie.

I'm going to tell Columbia I'm mary riley and i have no notes wow and that was it they basically shot the great draft it just sort of existed in a state of grace that yeah yeah that whole thing and it just and then basically they shot the first draft with a couple changes just to accommodate bill murray's schedule and i oh i remember when i said that to scott and larry about the connection problem charlie they both said that to Scott and Larry about the connection with Problem Child. They both said that's absolutely true. Oh, wow. That's really funny. Misfits. Films about misfits. Yeah, well, OJ is a perv. Misunderstood.

A Problem Child. Oh, and they wanted to make Problem Child basically into kind of a horror movie. Yeah, yeah. Well, the weirdest story of that is, and this is going back, do you remember a movie My Stepmother is an Alien? Sure. Oh, yes. Yes.

Sure. With Dan Aykroyd and Kim Basinger. That book was about. John Lovitz, I think, was in it. I think so. The book was originally about a kid whose stepmother was abusive. Oh. a kid whose stepmother was abusive. Ooh. And in his mind,

he had to rationalize that she was an alien. And that was the only way he could get through it. Like he created this, and it was a very dark, serious movie about a kid that created a fantasy to allow him to stay in reality. Wow. That people do. And they went, we got a better idea. She's really an alien.

And the thing is, that story you just told me, I said, I was thinking I'd be fascinated to see that movie. Yeah. Because the way the movie turned out, it's one of the old time worst. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think that's Richard Benjamin again. It's a great example of not knowing where the scary stuff starts and the comedy lives. You know, I think Mars Attacks would be much funnier if you took the aliens from Mars Attacks and edited them into Independence Day.

Yes. If the humans are playing it straight as a heart attack and the aliens were funny, it's a much better movie than Jack Nicholson trying to be funny in a fake nose in a cowboy suit. I remember when I watched Mars Attacks, it seemed like I was getting annoyed that everyone's being so goofy. And like, look at me, I'm so funny. It's the ingredients of a joke without it being a joke. It's like if I gave you a bowl of flour with an egg in it and said, I made you a cake. Yes. No, this is what you need to make a cake, but it's not a cake.

That's a movie you really want to work with those people in it and Larry and Scott's involvement and everything, just all the elements are there. Yeah. It's just like you got to know, and everything, just all the elements are there. Yeah. It's just like, it's just like, you got to know what, and dark shadows is the same thing. You either know how to tell a joke.

You don't. Yeah. Somebody has to be funny and somebody has to be, you need a funny man in the straight man. Somebody needs to be normal and somebody needs to be not normal, but it worked in Beetlejuice. So you can't criticize them because Beetlejuice is the same goddamn thing, but it works.

It's just like, uh, when they were making Airplane, the studio said, like, let's get a bunch of comedians. And they said, no, let's get totally straight actors who look like they don't know they're in a comedy. Right. That's exactly right. That's the only reason that movie works. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And just the other thing, and it's like Young Frankenstein, too, and there's just a joke every seven seconds.

Yeah. I mean, it's just boom, boom, boom, boom, which you really need. So your career goal was really to be a horror host. Yeah. Well, it's the only thing I know how to do. Did you have a horror host, a local one in Massachusetts growing up? Well, we had F.E.E.P. That was before I was born, but I knew about F.E.E. up? Well, we had F.E.E.P. That was before I was born, but I knew about F.E.E.P. My brothers talked about F.E.E.P. I have older brothers that were into all this stuff,

so I know about stuff more than I should for my age. I know a lot about Dark Shadows because it was on in my house every day when I was four and five years old. Dan Curtis. Dan Curtis. Grumpy Dan Curtis. I've got a story about that one. Oh, do you remember those fucking awful horror TV movies that Dan Curtis made?

Trilogy of Terror with Karen Black and the Zuni finished all. That one's great. He also made that horrible- Jack Palance, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I was just going to say that. Where he looked like Mr. Hyde in either way. that horrible... Jack Palance, Dr. Jack Palance. I was going to say that. Where he looked like Mr. Hyde in either way. Didn't he do Palance's Dracula? And he did Jack Palance's Dracula, too.

And he would use the Dark Shadows music. Yeah. Oh, Robert Colbert was the guy's name because we used it as the temp track on Stand Against Evil. Stand Against Evil looks like it was made in 1973. That was intentional. They have old cop Evil looks like it was made in 1973. That was intentional. They have old cop cars. It's not set in 1973. They have the internet and they have cell phones, but they have old console televisions and old cop cars.

I just wanted it to feel like when Michael calls. I wanted it to feel like one of those great... Speaking of Ben Gazzara. That's a creepy movie. Yeah, when Michael calls Calls is really creepy. And to my Helen. But yeah, Dan Curtis.

But he also made The Night Stalker, which is a great TV movie. Yeah. And he made The Night Stalker. He didn't direct it. He produced it. And it was a huge hit. Biggest, highest rated TV movie in history up to that point. They had no idea it was going to be this big. So rated TV movie in history up to that point.

They had no idea it was going to be this big. So the next year they made The Night Strangler. Dan Curtis fires the director, John Welwyn Moxie, and says, I'm going to direct this myself. I'm going to direct this myself. And The Night Strangler was basically a shot for shot remake of The Night Stalker with another monster in it. It's literally as if he had like you know do this and then yeah but he was such supposedly such an a-hole that on the last night they're shooting it's a night shot he was yelling at some poor crew member that you know just punching down and apparently darren mcgevin just said fuck this you got it and he went home and that was it wow

and when they picked it up as a TV series, he said, I'm only going to do it if Dan Curtis isn't involved. And that's why Dan Curtis wasn't on the TV series. Universal wrote him a check and, uh, and Darren Gavin produced it. Makes you like Darren and Gavin even more.

I like him anyway. Yeah. Man with a golden arm. Yeah. But it's like, he was yelling at some crew guy and he's like, fuck you. So you met Roddy McDowell.

You met Merv. I've met everybody. And you met Vincent Price. I did me vincent price which you have to tell gil uh he came to my acting class in the university of massachusetts uh as one day we just plugged in vincent price was in the class it was the craziest thing i'd ever seen in my life. And he just, you know, gassed on for a while. I remember I first met Vincent Price on the Alan Thicke show, Thick of the Night. And then years later, I was at some horror convention doing something and Vincent Price was there and I went over to him and I said, look, you probably won't remember this, but we met on the Alan Thicke show. And he goes, oh, yes, that was a terrible show.

Okay. I'll see your Alan Thicke story. And I'll raise it. I'll add a wrinkle. I did stand up at the Saturn Awards, which is the sci-fi awards. And I used to do a Vincent Price bit. And it was just basically how to do a Vincent Price impression, which is he has two voices, the smooth voice, and then he spazzes out. He's like, I understand your car broke down.

I insist that you stay here with us tonight. Don't talk to any of the paintings. He had to change gears. you stay here with us tonight. Don't talk to any of the paintings! You know, he would just change gears. So, I'm working at the Simpsons at the time, and sometimes during lunch, just to get out of the office,

I'd go down to the Toys R Us on Pico in La Cienega and just, you know, mope around and look at toys. Yeah. And I swear to God this is true. I hear, oh, you're the comedian. You did Vincent Price at the Saturn Awards.

And I turn around and it was Mark Hamill. Oh, my God. That's fun. And he was there. I didn't know he was there. And he goes, I know Vincent Price. And so this is me doing Mark Hamill telling me his Vincent Price story that's very similar to your story. You know, I've been in a lot of movies that aren't that good.

You know, and I'm a fan of The Tingler. I love The Tingler. And when I met Vincent Price, I said, I love The Tingler. And he said, isn't that a marvelous piece of rubbish? And, you know, when people tell me they're like Corvette Summer, I go, isn't that a marvelous piece of rubbish. You know, when people tell me they're like Corvette Summer, I go, isn't that a marvelous piece of rubbish? That's great. Yeah, that's Mark Hamill telling a Vincent Price story.

All right, so this is the perfect segue for this. To my Albert Brooks and Stanley Kubrick story? Take that, sir. All right, Gilbert. Okay. Vincent Price impressions are so good. We did this with Michael McKean and Gilbert. By the way, a delight.

A lovely guy. Michael McKean. We adored him. Great episode. So we'll call this what we called the segment the last time we did it. What was the name, Frankie? Price Comparison? That'll work. Price Comparison!

The tacky title for this. But the impressions are so good that I think our fans would enjoy hearing dueling Vincent Prices. So, Gilbert, you want to start? No, are we doing... Is he doing the whole thing and then I'm doing the whole thing? Yeah. Okay. We should,

as Vincent Price, too, saying something stupid like, I love you. Let's try the actual dialogue first. Can we get those lyrics? And then we say nine. Most of all, most of all, I'm sorry that I'm saying something stupid like I love you. I love you. My Don Knotts, I used to do a bit about Don Knotts where his voice was so specific that he couldn't make obscene phone calls. And I was like, you know, he'd like to.

He's up at two in the morning. He's in a dirty bathrobe. I've been looking at you through the bedroom window. Is this Don Knotts? God damn it. Years later, I met his daughter. I met his daughter, Karen. Yeah.

Who's great. Who's really sweet. And she goes, I love that bit you do about my dad. Have you heard it? Well, here's what we'll do. Gilbert, you do yours. Dana will do his. And then we'll combine them.

Okay. Go ahead, Gil. Gilbert, you do yours. Dana will do his, and then we'll combine them. Okay. Go ahead, Gil. Perhaps your hands will shake, and he too will die under your knife. A few remaining minutes are all you have, because when the acid reaches him, he will have a face like mine. Man. All right. He will have a face like mine. Do you know where you are, Bartholomew?

I'll tell you where you are. You're about to enter hell, Bartholomew. Hell! The netherworld, the infernal region, the, look at the giant bush, the abode of the damned. The place of torment. Pandemonium!

Abaddon, Tuffet, Gehenna, Naraka, the pit, and the pendulum. But before you die, I have to tell you the best artwork is still on sale at Sears. That's fantastic. Frank, find the lyrics to saying something stupid like I love you.

The Sinatra song? Okay, but since you mentioned the Tingler, go ahead. We'll do this one, too. Okay. So guys, talk about the Tingler today. Yours was from Fibes, and Dana's was from, obviously, Pitch the Pendulum. By the way, the two Dr. Fibes movies are fantastic. So, again,

really need to be, don't remake them, just re-release them. They're great. So, that is the movie that Tim Burton should be making. Yeah. You know, Dr. Fibes. Theater of Blood's pretty good too. Nine killed her

and nine will die that's it the diana rigg oh maybe one of the most beautiful women ever oh yes just walk the earth in her prime all right gil start us off and then you see how it works and then you'll do the bottom part in stereo great do it together ladies and gentlemen a word of warning. If you are not convinced that you have a tingler of your own, the next time you're frightened in the dark, don't scream. The tingler exists in every human being we now know. Look at that tingler, Dave. It's an ugly and dangerous thing.

Ugly because it's the creation of man's fear. Dangerous because... because a frightened man is dangerous. And now together? Ladies and gentlemen, please do not panic, but scream!

Scream for your lives. If only he was alive to know what was going on. I was thinking the same thing. Fantastic. Do you have his cookbook? I have somebody. He had like a cookbook. He was quite early.

Have you seen the electronic trivia game? Are you familiar with that? Oh, did you find those lyrics? No, I used to have the box for the shrunken head apple sculpture. Yeah, that's good. And there's also Hangman. He was on two board games. Here come the lyrics.

Okay. For you, sir. Oh, yeah. For you, sir. Is that the right one? I think. Oh, shit. Can you read it? Yes. Okay,. Oh, shit. Can you read it?

Yes. Okay, I can read it. Can you read it? Yeah. Well, you know them, Gil, pretty much. Something. Joey, do we want some karaoke accompaniment, or are you guys going to just do it? Yeah, because I mean, I know they had to respond back and forth like Frank and Nancy.

Yeah. Yeah. Did Frank do the first quatrain and then Nancy came in for the second? Or is it every other line? I think, doesn't she start it and then he comes in? I think he starts it. He does. Let's do it every other line? I think, doesn't she start it and then he comes in? I think he starts it. He does. Let's do it every other line to keep it exciting.

Oh, okay. I know I stand in line until you think you have the time to spend an evening with me. And if we go someplace to dance dance I know that there's a chance you won't be leaving with me and afterwards we drop into a quiet little place and have a drink

or two and then I go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like I love you. I can see it in your eyes that you despise the same old lies you heard the night before. And though it's just a line to you, for me it's true and never seemed so right before. and never seemed so right before.

I practice every day to find some clever lines to say to make the meaning come through. But then I think I'll wait until the evening gets late and I'm alone with you. The time is right, your perfume films I head. The stars are red and all the nights so blue. And then I go and spoil it all by saying

something stupid like I love you. I love you. By the way, speaking of the worst, talk about dated. This song is as dated and crazy as Hogan's Heroes. No.

First of all, it's a father and daughter. Yeah, that's insane. It's like Trump and Ivana. Is it Wives and Lovers? That song is fucking insane. Hey, little girl, fix your hair, comb your makeup, time to get ready for love. It's basically, it goes, you might want to pull it. Is that the Bacharach song?

Yeah. Day after day, there'll be girls at the office and men will always be men. Don't greet him at home with your hair up in curlers. You may not see him again. Because wives can always be men don't greet him at home with your hair up in curlers you may not see him again because lives we should all because wives can always be lovers too run to his arms whenever he comes home to you i'm warning you it's that, oh, it's with a real live girl. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he sings Real Live Girl, and they have the set set up like a children's playground.

Oh, God. And Dean Martin is on swings and going down the slide with little girls. Little girls are there. Now, I could understand if they put his dancers there. Yeah. That could be a funny thing. But there were little girls, and Dean Martin is sliding down the slide and going on the swings and the monkey bars singing about a real live girl. Can you see this on the web?

Is it available? I don't know. That's Heidi Saha level clues. Well, you know what movie really does not age well is What's Up, Tiger Lily. Oh, yeah.

Lusting after all the Asian women. We all know how that turned out. Yeah, that one does not roll well. Well, I'm running out of time. But I still like the theme. David, yeah, what's his name, Sebastian? John Sebastian? John Sebastian and 11 Spoon, sing the theme song, which is,

I've always been the guy with the finger in his nose when the passport picture gets taken, when the big guy takes out ceiling chickens on the one caught in the bacon. When they drop a piano from the 42nd floor, I'm always underneath looking up. When a tidal wave strikes 100 miles an hour, I'm out on always underneath looking up. When the tidal wave strikes a hundred miles an hour, I'm out on the rail throwing up.

Bum, bum, bum, bum. Wee, ka-pow. Somehow I would have made it anyhow. One little look and then holy cow. Holy cow. If my friends could see me now. Yes. Yeah. What do we got, Paul? Our researcher, Paul. Oh my god,

there it is. He found the video on YouTube. It's creepier than I described it. There's a girl sitting on his lap. Dana will now watch the video on Paul's phone. Yeah, I love that. That's actually a great song. Yes. And he sings it really fast.

I was always just the fellow with the finger up his nose. Oh, yes, yes. By the way, Love is Full of Great. Yeah. This isn't... Oh. Oh, I know this song. He has a little girl in his lap when he's singing Real Life Girl.

Times have changed. And he's making them breathe into a rag. Oh, yeah, this is really. It's creepy. Okay. Oh, Dean. So I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my sidekick and boy wonder, Frank Santopadre.

I'm not wearing the tights. Yes. I'll tell you now. With my modern day Burt Ward. I wish. Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking, of course, to Vincent Price. We've been talking of bushes and excrement.

You know, Dana, when we had people like Janet Ann Gallo on the show and Ron Chaney. Sure. And we had Bella Jr. But we had Janet Ann Gallo. She was the little girl from Ghost of Frankenstein. Yes. Wow. And still to come, hopefully, Donnie Donegan.

Yes. Wow, Donnie. Yeah, sure. I read film facts. I know Donnie Donegan. The point I was making is this is the perfect show for you. No, it really is. In fact, when you said Burt Ward, I'll tell you a really great little story about how great Adam West is to wrap it up.

So we say something positive. One of our favorite guests, by the way, on here. Well, why not? A gentleman. He was on The Simpsons doing – Krusty the Clown was on an old Batman and we had Adam come in to do the voice. And we had recorded him and he was – you know, you know. He's charming and wonderful.

Yeah, the best. We had recorded him and he was, you know, you know, he's charming and wonderful. Yeah, the best. And just before he left, we said, we just need some wild lines for you now. Just like grunting and groaning like you're struggling in vain. He went, okay. Struggling in vain. It's like we did not tell him to do it.

And we were just like in awe. It was like hearing that opening. It was like hearing Paul McCartney do the opening chord to Hard Day's Night. It was just like, so like, yeah, that's exactly what you need to do. That's a good impression of Adam West. Struggling. And that book, Back to the Batcave, had just come out. And he goes, you know, the hubris to write that book. The hubris. He paid Gilbert quite a compliment when we had him on.

Oh, he said, I would have made a great joker. Oh, yeah. A penguin. No, penguin. Penguin, I mean. And I thought, I was stunned when he said that. I couldn't believe it. You would have made a great penguin, Gilbert.

That's the best Adam West I've heard. Time is a cruel mistress, Gilbert, and it didn't happen soon enough. There's a great line where the Batmobile broke down and Robin's angry and they have to run. And he goes, caution, Robin. The Batmobile is a machine made by man. And like man has its flaws. It's perfect. What was that horrible special with Batman and the other?

Oh, the Legends of the Superheroes. You have to be familiar with that. And the roast. Ghetto Man. By the way, Ghetto Man, the actor who played Ghetto Man is still around. Oh, we've got to have him on. One of our fans is friends with him and offered him up, so we have to talk to Ghetto Man. We have a scene where Batman and Robin, Ward, and they meet against this super powerful villain.

Solomon Grundy, I believe. Oh, yes. meet against this super powerful villain. Solomon Grundy, I believe. Oh, yes. And Batman and Robin just kind of like walk away from the fight. They go, oh, all right, you got a set time, and they casually walk away. I thought, that's it?

I just watched the original Batman movie from 66. That is the progenitor of airplane you know that that is the first example of like it's the guy that looks like the guy and he's not aware he's in a comedy yeah and he's playing it straight as a goddamn heart attack yeah they're they're cousins they're they're they're absolute cousins. And the director just passed at 101. Wow.

Leslie Martinson. Yeah. So anyway, since I told the other parts already, thank you, our special guest, Dana Gould.

Thank you very much. It was fun. Oh, you want to put in the last plug about the show? Oh, yeah. If you enjoy Abbott and Costello

meets Frankenstein, give Stand Against Evil a chance. It premieres on Halloween night, actually, at 10 p.m. on IFC. And that's a sneak preview. And then it starts its regular run Wednesday, November 2nd at 10 p.m. on IFC. It stars John C. McGinley from Scrubs. Funny man. And Janet Varney. And I'm in there a little bit.

And it's really good. I'm really proud of it. It came out. For better or worse, it's exactly what I wanted to tell you. Good. And your podcast. And my podcast, The Dana Gould Hour. And I frequently wipe my ass only with baby wipes.

Thanks, Dana. And the actress was Amerarin Iyaz? As I said, every story on the show is apocryphal. Glue, glue, glary-glore.