Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 131. Norman Steinberg

Episode Date: November 28, 2016

Emmy-winning writer and producer Norman Steinberg stops by the studio to talk about his friendships with Mel Brooks, Harvey Korman and Madeline Kahn, collaborating with Richard Pryor and George Carlin and co-scripting the (arguably) funniest movie of all time, "Blazing Saddles." Also, Norman remembers Peter O'Toole, praises Flip Wilson, accepts an award from Jimmy Durante and ends Luciano Pavarotti's film career. PLUS: "My Favorite Year"! "When Things Were Rotten"! James Mason goes bowling! Gilbert brings back vaudeville! And the strange life of David Frye! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadrere and we're once again at Nutmeg with our engineer Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is an Emmy-winning comedy writer and producer who has written for some of the most visible and prominent performers of the past five decades, including Gene Wilder, Peter O'Toole, Madeleine Kahn, Alan King, Elaine Stritch, Danny DeVito, Harvey Korman, Flip Wilson, Billy Crystal, Michael Keaton, and even Luciano Pavarotti. He's scripted variety shows, TV specials, Academy Award telecasts, comedy albums, sitcoms like When Things Were Rotten, Dr. Doctor, The Cosby Show.

Uh-oh. As well as popular feature films, including Wise Guys, Funny About Love, Johnny Dangerously, and one of our favorite comedies, the Mel Brooks produced My Favorite Year. his mentor, Mel Brooks, along with writers Andrew Bergman and Alan Ugger, and the legendary Richard Pryor to create the screenplay for what is considered by many to be the funniest movie ever made, Blazing Saddles. It is. Please welcome to the show a comedy writer's comedy writer and a man who claims I once led to him being fired. Norman Steinberg. What a pleasure to be here.

Welcome, Norman. Thank you. Okay. Now, you actually listen to this show. I love this show. I listen religiously. Sometimes I wear a talus. I ran into Norman in the street at an event.

I went to see an event, Andrew Bergman. I ran into him in the street, and he said he had just listened to the Amy Heckerling episode. Yes. Yeah. And I had worked with Amy on Johnny Dangerously. Yeah, of course. She was great. She was great.

And Andrew, you were interviewing Andrew Bergen. Andrew Bergen was being interviewed, yeah, by a friend of mine, by Randy Cohen. Yeah. Now, we got to get to the most important thing, and I think what the world wants to know. You claim I got you fired from the Cosby show. Happily. This was the Dr. Huxtable. Yeah.

No, no. No? It was this second iteration. It was. Oh, my God. Luke something. It was Cosby. Yeah, yeah.

And it was, his name was Luke something. Now I'm blanking on it. I'm blanking on Bill Cosby. It was not the famous successful Huxtable. Same wife. Yeah, same wife. In fact, he had fired the original woman who he hired, and he said to Felicia, you've got to come back.

And she did. And we had a meeting, and it was with Les Moonves and Bill at his house, and Les said, hey, suppose we go to Atlantic City, and we Cliff Huxtable and the new guy whose name I'm blanking on now too. Oh, he was kind of like a rapper or something. No, he was a baggage handler who had – No, no. Who cost – No, no. Who Cosby was a baggage. Oh, yeah.

And Dougie Doug. Dougie Doug. Dougie Doug was the one. Who's hilarious, by the way. And so he had been downsized and he was living in Astoria. And he was supposed to be very angry at having been fired. And we did an episode and there was a – we did an old vaudeville routine. I think you will remember.

You were in jail. Niagara Falls. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. Slowly I turned. Yes. And Gilbert was in jail and Cosby and Dougie –

But it was David Letterman that sprung me off. David, the name David Letterman. David Letterman. Made you crazy. Slowly I turned. Because he, David Letterman had stolen your girlfriend. Yes. Something like that.

So I loved the episode. I thought it was hilarious. Yeah. It was a little crazy. And we did the show. We shot it. And I got a call from one of the producers, one of the owners of the show. And they said, Gilbert Gottfried, do you think he's funny? And I said, I think he's hilarious. He said, I don't. Can you

cut him out of the show? And I said, well, yeah, sure, but we won't have a show, but I'll edit it and we'll see what transpires. So I edited the show and the producer called Cosby. He was off doing a weekend on the West Coast and said, I hate this show. I hate this episode and it's your fault. So he came back and he was angry. And he didn't read the new episode, but he wanted to throw it out.

And I took a stand and I said, he was angry because the producer, I'm not going to name him or her, didn't like the show. And I think it was difficult for him to hear this, especially from a woman. And that occasioned a reading where he just killed two of the writers,

two young writers who I had hired. And I said, it's not their fault. We all do. We all go over this script. He said, I hate this. This is the next script. I hate this script. And it was all because he was angry that somebody didn't like the previous episode that you

ruined. Yes. So, so we, so I took a stand and I said, this is, no, I'm the showrunner. I put this on the table and don't blame them. One of the writers who went on, by the way, to do Colbert and is still with us, Colbert's producer, a wonderful writer. And he turned to the guy at CBS and he said, Bill, it's a good script. And he turned to our guy at CBS and he said,

what do you think of the script? And alarmingly, the CBS executive said, I think it's a terrific script, Bill. And he got up and he said, well, I guess I'm wrong. And left the room. And I just, I heard taps playing in my head. That was it. And a half hour later, my agent called and said, they're making a change.

Wow. So that was it. And it's funny because. He didn't they're making a change. Wow. So that was it. And it's funny because. He didn't even offer me a drink. It's funny because when I was hired to do a guest spot on the other. And it was his idea, by the way. He wanted you. Well, because you've been on the old Cosby show a bunch of times you've been recurring yeah i i remember he when i was on thick of the

night that horrible show that somebody had told me cosby was like a fan of mine he had seen some episodes yeah he's the one who suggested you. He wanted to do Niagara Falls. Oh, yeah. And he said, let's get Gilbert. I said, great. Let's do it. And there you were. Wow.

It wasn't your fault. It wasn't. Yeah. It wasn't your fault. But I was just defending these two young writers. And they lived. I died. I mean, i was gone see i heard the reason you were fired is when you said miss don't drink that

when he was teaching comedy to asian models yes now did you tell me that story somebody told me this story it was norman when i was on one of the one of the cosby incarnations they said that bill cosby sets aside like an hour it's like in the schedule where he teaches comedy to asian models. Yeah. And Turkish models. Yeah. No. I remember when Cosby was on the air, there were so many funny Asian women around. Asian women were walking down the street going, Hey, you know,

He was famous for a lot of, to me at least, for a lot of like 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. phone calls because he never slept. I mean, listen, I revere him. He's a comic legend. And I think this is a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions. It is. His comedy was special. So what's the first line on the obituary? Yeah, of course. Yeah, and it's like, it's kind of like similar to like Fatty Arbuckle. Yeah.

Fatty Arbuckle. But Fatty Arbuckle. Yeah. Fatty Arbuckle. But Fatty Arbuckle, you said this the other day. What did he do? He gave somebody a Coke. Yeah. Right. And he was like a very successful comedian, Fatty Arbuckle, and had loads of fans.

And it's the same way you're going to remember Fatty Arbuckle when you bring up Bill Cosby. Oh, he was that guy who was raping all those women. Yeah, that's going to be it. And that's sad because what he did for comedy and you probably saw him as he was coming up. David Steinberg was coming up at the same time.. It was a great, great period for comics. It really was. Interesting that it took 128 guests to find somebody who actually went to bat for you. Oh.

That's something in your career. All the other guests were going, sure, well, fire Gilbert. Fire him now. Gilbert. I've been a fan and I'll tell you how long since you did The Honeymooners with James Mason as Ralph Cranberry. That's how long you've been a fan of his? Oh, I love it. And Richard Burton

as Norton and Jack Nicholson as Alex. The Honeymooners. The motion picture. James Mason is Ralph Cramden. Alice. Norton and I are going to play poor. And after that, we'll go bowling.

Richard Burton has Norton. I can't go bowling with you, Rat. You see, unbeknownst to me, Trixie's mother has come to you. Oh, you're right, Norton. Still holds up. I love that we have Joyce Randolph coming in here too in a couple of weeks and we should pull that out

for her she'd be very impressed the only living member of the honeymoon that's it no I saw you did it live or you had a special yeah I had a special

but I used to be a maniac all the time you won my heart we will return to You had a special. Yeah, I had a special, but I used to be a maniac all the time. You won my heart. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone. Download the app and play whatever, wherever, and whenever.

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is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. And now back to the show. But you stood up for me. I did. It's a beautiful story. You did. Yeah, I did.

You're the only guest so far. I am a fan of comics and comedy. And, you know, that's been my life and your life and your life. I remember what stands out to me about the – aside from the fact that Cosby wanted me personally is it was already a big show. wanted me personally, is it was already a big show. And that show that I was on, for some reason, the next day in the papers, it broke all records of the most watched sitcom ever on TV, that episode. Of the show that we did? Yeah.

The old Cosby show? The old Cosby show. Oh, the old, yeah. The original Cosby. You know what was weird with that? The second one with Luke where he's the baggage handler? That show seemed like it never

really knew what kind of a show it was supposed to be. Well, it was adapted from a British show. And Cosby would never, would, wouldn't, the British show was an angry show like Archie Bunker, like Till Death Lest You Part. And he refused to go there because he had his image and what he – his image of himself

and his public image. And he wouldn't, interestingly enough, I mean, you know, and again, I'm not here to trash Bill because I do revere him and what he's done for comedy. But this, you know, he was such a genius. I mean, we would write a scene, and if it didn't work, I'd go up to him afterwards because we reshoot it. He said, I got an idea. And there was one point where he did, I think it was like a 17-minute monologue off the top of his head. And it was breathtaking.

Just stuff that he had remembered. He was trying to teach a lesson to a young black man who graduated from Harvard, who was dating his daughter. a man who graduated from Harvard who was dating his daughter. And the punchline was, that's the downfall of all black men, Harvard. I don't know how he got there, but it was genius. Brilliant. It was certainly brilliant in his day. I remember when I was doing the Cosby one where he's Huxtable,

that one day Milton Berle stopped by the set, and I was standing there watching Berle and Cosby talk to each other, and both of them were basically performing for each other in conversation. And it was, to me, it was like the greatest lesson in comedy. Cosby would stretch out his stories and go into detail. Milton Berle would go for the quickest shtick that he could do. Two eras. Yeah, two different comedy eras.

Oh, yes. But both hysterical. The first time that I met him was on the Flip Wilson show. And Flip would have, I mean, he had everybody. You were a writer on that show, and you won an Emmy. Yeah, that was my first big job. Just going to ask you about it. But Cosby would come on the show,

and Flip would have a rehearsal, and he would have cue cards, just him. And he wanted to hear the stuff. And the cue cards, he'd start reading it, and invariably he would cut everybody's lines. Just go like this, and the lines were out. And Cosby was left with shrugs and still got more laughs than Flip. I mean, it was just the looks and the glances. I mean, it was Flip.

There was one scene where Flip said, I want you to do my eulogy. And Cosby was left with, I'd be thrilled to do that. He said, and I want you to come to the cemetery with me and ride with me. I mean, with the coffin? And Cosby got every laugh with his looks and his grimaces. He's a genius. You loved Flip Wilson, too, didn't you?

You loved working for him. Flip Wilson, well, it was my launching. And he was, what I loved about Flip was that he also loved comics. And he was adorable. It was amazing because he just burst on the scene. We were the number one show, just like that. I love that show. You remember the Church of What's Happening Now?

Yeah. And you know what was funny about the Flip Wilson show was they would always have like an odd assortment of guests that didn't seem to match up with each other, which made it even more fun. Yeah. So it was like the black version of Ed Sullivan. Yes, yes. A true variety show. Yeah, this guy's going to come out and lift up a table with his teeth. And one of your early jobs, and you won an Emmy.

And I was telling Gilbert and Cliff before, who handed you your Emmy? Jimmy Durante. Wow. What a thrill. I had a borrowed velvet suit on. Fantastic. And my mother hemmed up the the cuffs i love it it was it was great and uh uh it was just happenstance i had done a robert klein show and i was out in california comedy tonight comedy tonight and i was out in california doing the second uh you remember David Frye?

Sure. We talked about him on the show. We just had Will Jordan on here. Yeah. David – I mean he was a genius and a person probably with no life. But he – you'd see him in the bathroom doing faces. And we did the first album, I Am the President, and we did we did the the first album i am the president and we got a grammy my first two jobs we got a grammy i didn't get the album got it right and then flip wilson

uh a uh an emmy yeah i was out in california and i ran into robert klein on the street and at sunset boulevard across from the comedy store. And I was staying in this motel. There was a motel across the street where this Leonard Barr. Oh, my God. Dean Martin's uncle. That's right. I remember Leonard Barr very well.

Like the funny walker, funny dancer. He was a funny guy. Yeah. Loved him. Yes. Very well. Like the funny walker, funny dancer. He was a funny guy. Yeah. Loved him. And he was, and I ran into Robert, and he said, oh, you got to come out. You got to come out to Burbank. I'm doing a Flip Wilson show.

So I went out to see it, and I met the head writer, who was a guy named Herb Baker, whose mother, you'll know this. Maybe. Belle Baker. Her name sounds familiar whose mother, you'll know this. Maybe. Belle Baker. Her name sounds familiar. She was like the road show. Cliff would know. She's like the road show Sophie Tucker. Okay. And his byline, somebody said about him, he says,

Herb Baker, never met a man I didn't adore. And the show, they needed another writer, and so they hired me and my partner alan uger who lasted he left after two weeks he was homesick and then we apologized to alan for mispronouncing his name and he had alan uger oh yeah and then uh but it was – I was writing alone and then Flip was so kind that George Carlin was – hadn't done the seven words you can't say. And he hired him to do the Hippie Dippie Weatherman. Yeah. And he made him my partner. So we wrote a sketch that Tim Conway did, which was basically the president's – the guy, he was the president and Flip cleaned the president's office, the president of the United States.

And Tim Conway is the president. And Flip would come in and the president would be sitting there knitting his brow and Flip would say, get up. And it was Flip telling him how to run the country essentially. And they did that character for a couple of years. I quit after the first year

because I wanted to come home you wanted to leave LA I want to come back to Brooklyn what great days you and George Carlin collaborating on a Tim Conway sketch on the Flip Wilson show it was about we worked that whole year it's great and he he was an absolute delight and a genius and and right after that, he took off. He did that album and that did it. He was on his way. Right, right. Tell us a little bit about David Frye.

What kind of person he was. Because he's always struck us as a little idiosyncratic, a little odd. His name's come up. He seemed like one of those people who he had to be those characters or else he didn't exist there was nothing he could own well Sid Caesar was like that oh yeah it's the same they had to get into character yeah I've heard that about Jonathan Winters Peter Sellers another one yeah they said if he wasn't doing a character he he didn't exist. It was a thing with Sid. They had all the writers in L.A. at the – I think it was at the Writers Guild.

And they were honoring Sid. And it was all the, you know, 27 Yankees. It was Mel and Larry Galbart. Tolkien and Woody. Yeah. Woody wasn't there. Oh, Neil Simon. Neil Simon. And Sid got up to accept the award and make some remarks,

and he just couldn't get it together. And Mel leaned over and said, said, do it in German. Great. And Fry was the same way. He was a non-person. Yeah, he didn't. There's a bunch of them like that, like Peter Sellers, a bunch that just don't exist.

Yeah. And the funny thing is, every time, and I remember an article when Nixon came out, Anthony Hopkins, they had photos and names of every single person in comedy or drama who has been Nixon. And the one left out, of course, is David Frye, who all these other people doing Nixon were doing David Frye. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And his Buckley was incredible. Oh, yes.

Incredible. That was astonishing. In fact, Robin Williams does David Frye's Buckley in a Latin. Yeah, I mean, all those guys are a little strange, aren't they? Oh, yes. They have to become someone else, and they lose their identity, their sense of being, their purpose in life. I remember Fry used to, like, stick his tongue out as Buckley and make his eyes pop out.

Yes, yes, yes. He wanted to when we did the album he wanted to know if his name was going to be on it. Very strange. Which is so very strange.

And the last time I saw him was at a urinal in, sorry, Musso and Frank. Oh, sure. He said, David, how are you? He said, I'm 52 years old and I can't pee. David Steinberg told a story that he David was a co-host was guest hosting the Tonight Show. And they warned him when David Fry comes out. Oh, yeah. Don't try to ask him a question or get him in a conversation. Just tell him to do his voices like Nixon and all the others.

And he comes out, sits down, and David just goes, hey, Dave, how you doing? And Fry goes, how am I doing? What's he talking about? How am I doing? And he's looking around. He's panicking. And then he goes, well, I mean, how are you doing with Nixon? And it was fine.

That's sad. No, it was, yeah, he was an idiot savant. He had this peculiar talent that uh it was astonishing and that that album took off oh yeah it was the second one then we did the second one with uh mickey rose was the head writer and so woody allen's old guy yeah mickey rose yeah yeah i went i went out to california and did that. But that, it was called Radio Free Nixon. It just, it wasn't, it was so fresh when he came out. Oh, yeah.

Like Vaughn Meter. But, you know, that was it. One and out. So you're a Brooklyn kid, as we established. Right. And you were a lawyer. You were not a comedy writer originally. And you met somebody in Shock Full of Nuts that turned things around.

That guy. Yeah, I was at 57th and 7th. And I was a – Not far from here. Yeah. I was an entertainment lawyer. And I hated myself. And every morning I'd go down to Chock Full of Nuts and there was Mel Brooks.

And I said – I just literally pulled on his coat. And every morning I'd go down to Chock Full of Nuts, and there was Mel Brooks. And I said, I just literally pulled on his coat. I loved him. The first time I saw him was in a theater lobby, which brings me to, somebody asked Mel, what does a Jew need? And he said, a Jew needs a lobby. We get it, right? I mean, it's like what's the greatest invention? Saran wrap, right?

And that's the same kind. At any rate, I said, I want to be a comedy writer. I want to be a comedy writer. I want to be a comedy writer. He said, he put his hands on my shoulders and looked deeply into my eyes and said, leave me alone. But I didn't. And one day, like all writers, we're very kind people. I'd like to think so. Yeah.

And he handed me a piece of paper. He said, call this guy. And the guy was the producer of Get Smart. Leonard Stern. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, you want to be a writer, Mel tells me. I said, yeah.

He said, write something. Write a script for the show. I'll read it. I'd never written a script. Sat down, wrote a script, sent it to him, and he called me. And he said, well, actually, Chris Hayward called me, and he said, this is a wonderful script, and if the show is picked up, we'll buy it. And I went in the next day and quit. You quit your law job. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. And if the show is picked up, we'll buy it. And I went in the next day and quit. You quit your law job.

Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. And that was, Mel was at that point had two failed movies, the producers and 12 chairs. Right. And he said, what do you want to be? Look at me. He says, I'm buying a cruller.

Leave me alone. He said, all right, I got a rich wife. But, you know, he and it I went and did the Flip Wilson show, did comedy tonight. But I went when I quit Flip Wilson, that's how life works out. It's around 72. Yeah. Yeah. And I said,

uh, it was 71, 71. I said, uh, they said, you got an Emmy. You come in,

you know, you're going to bake. Yeah. I was making 750 bucks a week and I was going to 1200 a week, which was astonishing to me. Uh, and I said, no, I have to go home and so i came back and i was looking looking for work and i got a job same guy who gave me my first two jobs gary belkin who was a writer on your show of shows and he said one of the great things to me as a writer i said how can i ever repay you he gave me the robert klein show and and also the the the job on the david fry album and he said

pass it on that was and every time i say that i get a chill because then it was like you have these epiphanies. I'm going to dedicate myself to doing that. And you're still doing that today? Still doing that. With your students? Yeah. But I'm going back to writing. Good.

Good. And we jump around here a lot, Norman, but I'm going to jump to a phone call from Mel after he got his hands on a script from a guy named Andrew Bergman, who we just talked about. So Andrew Bergman, who everybody should know, the writer-director of The Freshman and Honeymoon in Vegas. By the way, Andy's son is on this new show, which you should watch, called Good Girls Revolt on Amazon about Newsweek and when Nora Ephron did it. His son Teddy is a wonderful actor and is a regular on the show. Well, look for it. Yeah.

And Andrew also wrote the little movie called The In-Laws. So a script that he'd written called Tex-X, and it had a lot of different titles, found its way into Mel Brooks' hands, and he usually didn't direct things that he hadn't written, but decided to take it on. And then at some point in the process, you got a phone call. Well, it wasn't a phone call. I was doing another Gary Belkin job. We were doing Aquacade and Acapulco.

Oh, the one with Stiller and Mira. Yes. Yes. You like that title, Gilbert? Yes. Aquacade and Acapulco. And that didn't make it. Stiller and Mira.

Your host, Ed McMahon. Tony Randall. Tony Randall, yes, and the Aquamaniacs. Oh, God. And a guy named Henry Lamothe who would dive from 40 feet into 40 inches of water. And so I did this show, and Mel was on the show as a performer. Oh, that's right, that's right. He needed the money, he said. And it was 10 days in Acapulco, and was pregnant with, you know, Max. Max was, right. He needed the money, he said. And it was 10 days in Acapulco.

Anne was pregnant with, you know, Max. Max was, right. Who was the king of the zombies. Sure. He wrote. He wrote World War Z. Yeah. Yeah.

It's great. And so we were all in Acapulco. And Mel said to me, which was, we wrote a sketch together, which he played sort of a Nazi. And I played a bellhop and I delivered a package to him. And he said, here, hold this for me in the pool because it was ticking. I went off camera. I had a nice uniform on and there was an explosion and all my gold buttons came flying into frame. And Mel looked at it and said, oh, that's such a beautiful uniform. And he said, there was a human being in that uniform.

Yeah, that too. But after those 10 days, we just, he said, I want to write with you, which was astounding to me. And he said, I got a script, and would you read it and tell me if you think it's funny? And it was Andy's script. It was great. And how did Andy come up with the idea? Andy was working at United Artists. This is a story I think is true. And over his desk, he had this, there was a poster of Jimi Hendrix on a horse.

It had been around, one of those rock posters. Yeah, I know the poster. Yeah, with a guitar. Yeah. And he kept staring at this poster. And it was the light bulb, a black sheriff in the Old West. And that was it. And he just went with it and wrote a script and got, I think, $25,000.

Which they were initially going to do with Alan Arkin directing and James Earl Jones playing the sheriff, playing Black Bart. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine? Jeez. And he also wrote The Scout, if you remember that. Oh, yes. I like that one, too.

And that was supposed to be John Belushi. Oh. John Belushi was going to play it. And Andy was going to direct it, but it ended up with- Michael Ritchie, I think. Yeah, and Albert Brooks. Albert Brooks. Yeah.

But that script was really funny. And we redid the story. And even though Mel will tell it differently, he looked around the room, Alan Uger, me, Andy, and Mel. He said, I'm looking at four Jews. We need a gentleman of color. So I had worked with Richard on Flip Wilson. And so I said, I'll call him. I think he's the funniest man in the world. And I called him and I said, Richie, we're doing this film with Mel Brooks. And he lost his breath. Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks.

He couldn't even get the name out. Wow. He was thrilled. I said, you want to do it? He said, yes, I need train fare. They sent him. There was only one hotel in New York that would take him because he had stiffed everybody else. He was at the plaza.

And he said, I need a ticket for me and my woman. And they came in. And he was, you know, did you ever work with Richard? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I worked with him on the last of the Gene Wilder, Richard Pryor. It was a horrible, horrible film. But what I remember about Pryor, it was the first time I had ever spoken to him.

So I worked with two weeks there. spoken to him so i worked with two weeks there and prior was like very quiet and he followed me around like i was a major comedy legend and he was just an annoying kid and he would go and goes you are so funny with the problem child movies and even when you're not trying to be funny, you're funny. And I thought, wow. What a compliment. Yeah. Yeah. I was in awe because to have these two guys in the room going.

He lasted three weeks. What happened? There's conflicting stories. He disappeared in Cleveland or Detroit? Chicago. Chicago. Yeah, Chicago. He called and said,

I've heard three versions of this. I lost my wallet. But he literally said he wanted to go back because he ran out of Coke. I mean, he wasn't hiding anything. Of course,

which plays into why Warner Brothers was reluctant to use them. But then after that, they had that run of. It's so wild. It's weird how that turned out. I guess it was Mel Brooks' idea to hire Pryor for Blazing Saddles. I mean, I said to be on screen. They wouldn't stand for it. They said, no, we can't.

We don't know. It'll disappear. And then a couple of years later, he teams up with Wilder. Exactly. And they're like Abbott and Costello. What a weird twist. Yeah. And the super, I call it super chief, Silverstreak.

Silverstreak, yeah. Was, he was just sort of a pop-up store in that. You know, he just appeared in the backseat. And it was Gene's picture. And Gene, you know, he's another genius who walked into Blazing Saddles. We had lost – we had Dan Daly. The first person we asked to play that role. The Waco kid.

Yeah, was Johnny Carson. And I went to the Tonight Show with Mel. That's amazing. And we went into the dressing room and he said, he had sent a script over and he said, we really would love you to do this. It's like Dean Martin and Rio Bravo. Right. And you play a drunk.

You've had a few drinks in your life, you know. Do it. Do it. And Johnny said, this is what I do. And he was right. Let him in the same way. Gil, I have to talk to you about MeUndies. Oh, yes.

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When the mic wasn't on and we were just about to do this, you said, you know, it really is good underwear. I wasn't kidding. And I said, yeah. And both of us right now, whether you want to think about it or not, both of us are wearing MeUndies. Oh, I want to think about it. Yeah, I'll think about it tonight when I get home. I'm wearing my blue and orange stripes because I'm a Met fan. And also a fan of the 64 World's Fair.

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And they really are. They really are. Get the subscription or a single pair. You get 20% off your first order, which is a good deal, when you go to MeUndies.com slash Gilbert. That's MeUndies.com slash Gilbert for 20% off your first order. MeUndies.com slash Gilbert. There's a famous story Mel Brooks has told that they also wanted Gig Young.

We had Gig Young. But wait a minute, you started out with Carson for the Waco kids. Carson, we went to Dan Daly. Dan Daly. Dan Daly was. Great song and dance band. He just didn't think he could do it. He wasn't strong enough.

Also, you know, as they say, he was fond of his jar. So then he hired Gig Young. Right. Gig Young came in at 8 o'clock in the morning, said hello, and then fainted. Literally. Amazing. Hit the floor. He was drunk.

Tragically, after that, he killed his girlfriend and himself. His own life. It's a sad ending. An Academy Award winner. Good actor. They shoot horses. He was a wonderful actor.

And he also was supposed to be the voice of Charlie in Charlie's Angels. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's cool. all these angels. Wow. I didn't know that.

Yeah. That's cool. And the day that they were going to be recording, he was bombed. And so at the last minute, they called John Forsythe and said, could you come over here? Yeah. Yeah. That was it. What a gig.

What a gig. Yeah. Yeah. No, he was great. And then Mel just called. I mean, I thought it was because you go from Gig Young, Van Daly to Gene. I mean, it's a curly-haired Jew. Where does that come from?

It's hysteric. But he was magnificent. Now you can't imagine anybody else doing it. Yeah, right. Right. Because he just owns it. I can't imagine anybody else doing it. Yeah, right.

Right. Because he just owns it. That was – and Mel has a great, great, great sense of casting. I mean he really – did he discover Madeleine Kahn? No. But he knew how to use her. And she was on the – as you know. Oh, yes, yes. On that Cosby show.

On the Cosby. And she was on the, as you know. Oh, yes, yes. On that Cosby show. On the Cosby. I don't know what she was doing there, but she was a dear friend. And I said, Madeline, she said, you know, I grew up in Queens, and my best friends were always African Americans. And I would go to their houses because my house was dull and they were so jolly.

And we would sing. We would sing and we would dance. There's a line in Blazing Saddles where they've just had – she and the sheriff have had their night together with the schnitzelgruben. The schnitzelgruben. The schnitzelgruben. And he leaves, and he said, no, I've got to get some vitamin C, and I've got to go. Right. And she, vitamin E.

Depends on how much vitamin E I get my hands on. Would you care for another schnitzelgruben? No, thank you. Fifteen is my limit on schnitzel groban no thank you 15 is my limit on schnitzel groban well then uh hop out a little baby please i am not from havana excuse me honey besides i'm late for work i've got some heavy chores to do well i Will I see you later? Well, it all depends on how much vitamin E I can get my hands on. Nein, nein, ach so.

Bitte, no, no, you mustn't go. I need you. I never met nobody like you. I can't live without you. Du hast gemacht mein entire Leben. Please. And he leaves and she throws herself against the door

and just says, what a nice guy. Yeah. Fantastic. She was so adorable. It's funny you mention the casting in that movie. Every part.

I mean, from Harvey Korman to Slim Pickens and the lesser roles. Robert Ridgely as the hangman. Oh, yeah. And David, the great David Huddleston and George Firth, the big theater figure and Liam Dunn and everybody in that movie is, you can't take your eyes off them. They're all perfect. Miranda piece on PBS, and it was with Stephen Sondheim.

And he mentioned what a great influence George Furth was. He wrote the books for— People don't know that. Yeah, they don't know his other life. I heard that Mel Brooks was very big on wanting to know if someone was musically talented. Yeah. He's got a great ear. Listen, he wrote the producer's score.

I saw him. I was on 79th Street, Madison Avenue, and he was hailing. And I knew he was writing the producers as a Broadway musical I said uh where you going well we're doing the musical and uh with Tom Meehan a wonderful writer and I said what uh I said who's doing the music he said I am and And I said, I have two words of advice for you. He said, what? Candor and ebb. No, but he really did it. He really did it.

I mean, those are. Well, those songs, like I'm Tired. Yeah. Yeah, and Blazing Saddles. And High Anxiety. High Anxiety. It's hysterical. And the Sinatra rendition that he does. Oh, yes. It's great. Anxiety. It's hysterical. And the Sinatra rendition that he does.

Oh, yes. It's great. Haziety. It's great. No, he's terrifically musical. That's why I love Terry Garr and Madeline, of course. It's like when you think of the great ones, like the Marx Brothers were all musicians. Yeah.

Charlie Chaplin was a composer. Well, you've said that on this show, that there's something, there's some connection between hearing music and hearing comedy. The timing and tempo. It's like when you hear, that's what was so horrible about the Bud and Lou story with Harvey Korman and Buddy Hackett. Yeah. We love Harvey, though.

Yeah. I mean, both were great stars. I mean, both him and Buddy Hackett. But when you hear Abbott and Costello do Who's on First, it's like it's so musical. It really is. Absolutely. You're caught up in the rhythm of it. Harvey was such a dear person.

We had a mutual friend who was one of the great, great writers, orchestrators, writers for film, Jerry Goldsmith. Oh, he's a legend. We talk about him on this show. Jerry was dying. And he was one of my best friends. And he, Harvey and I would take him out for dinner. He just wanted to laugh. And Harvey was so kind and so caring.

And I'll never forget that. So as Jerry was dying, he said – he asked me, would you write – would you write – his father had died at the age of 106. Jerry was 75. And he said, would you write the eulogy for my dad? Because I can't do it. So I wrote the eulogy. And he said, I wanted to deliver it, but would you please deliver it? I said, yes.

And I said, but I'm going to tell a joke. And it's not my joke. It's Mel's joke. But I'm going to tell it. And he said, tell me the joke. I said, okay. Mars Goldsmith died at the age of 106. He was asking for it.

He was asking for it. That's a great joke. And I went back afterwards and he said, did he get a laugh? I said, standing ovation. He loved it. That's great. Just wanted to laugh. I heard Harvey Korman strikes me as one of those people who was very funny on stage, but not a funny person off stage.

No, he was. He was? He was. He was. Not only that, he was sweet. He was really sweet. And so's Tim. Yeah. And so's Carol.

I mean, I never worked with her, but everybody loved her. And he and Tim were actually close friends. Yeah. Yeah. Tim is, you know, Tim's old man, that walk. Yeah. That's fabulous. Yeah.

We got to get Tim on this show. We got to make that happen. Well, he was, we had him on, we had him on cosby yeah and i it was great easy as pie to work with wonderful no no i worked with him on an award show and he was so sweet yeah so funny and humble yeah humble and modest happy yeah happy to be working yeah the other thing about blazing saddles i just wanted to say is re-watching it, and my wife and I will make an excuse to watch it every month, the love of movies. There's references to, obviously, Hedy Lamarr, but Cecil B. DeMille joke. There's a Douglas Fairbanks joke.

There's the Richard Dicks joke. There's the Laurel and Hardy handshake, which is just one of the fantastic jokes in the movie. There's a Gabby Hayes joke. It is so steeped in your guys' love of movies. Yeah. You know, this is like, who are the five movie buffs that sat in a room? How about you left out Randolph Scott? Randolph Scott, of course.

But tell us a little bit about the writing process, because Pryor bowed out early. You guys were, so it was you. It was symbiotic. Mel wanted to recreate your show of shows. Right, that's what I've heard. That's what he wanted. And we had instant, except for Alan who left after one week. And in a blast that I don't understand, Mel kept his name on the script,

which was very kind. Almost too kind. But okay. Richard came in and ignited the room. Because it was, everybody in the room was so kind to each other and so giving. And there was no – later in life when I did my favorite year, he called me. There was a script. He asked me to rewrite it.

And he said, it's Mel Brooks meets Errol Flynn on the show of shows. And I said, I'll write it, but I'm not going to write you. And he said, why? I said, too abrasive. You're too abrasive. I said, I'm going to write myself. He said, okay, fine. The character was even named Steinberg in my favorite year.

Was there a reason you called? Only to remind you that you're coming here for dinner tomorrow night. Oh, no, ma. I can't make it. Alan Swan's on the show, and they made me his keeper.

Alan Swan from the movies? Yeah. Rookie Alan Swan from the movies? Yeah. Rookie Alan Swan from the movies. So bring him along. Bring Alan Swan to Brooklyn? Well, why not? What are you ashamed of? Everything.

It's funny, with my favorite year, I always thought the story of Mel Brooks and Errol Flynn was where it came from. But you said it's a much older story. Errol Flynn, Basil Rathbone did your show of shows. Wow. I wrapped my mind around that. And in point of fact, Dick Benjamin, when he came into the picture, In point of fact, Dick Benjamin, when he came into the picture, he said this should be an amalgam of Errol Flynn and John Barrymore, which was a stroke of genius. And there's a line in it.

Alan Swan goes into the ladies room and it's a Barrymore line that Dick came up with when Selma Diamond comes in and said, this is for ladies only. And he's holding Dick and says, so is this, Marm, but occasionally I have to run some water through. That was a Barrymore line. And then to go full circle, when Peter O'Toole came into the picture, Barrymore was his idol. And so much so that, in fact, the other thing was that they didn't, the studio did not want Peter O'Toole. They were afraid of him the same way Warner Brothers was afraid of Richie.

Because they said, well, he's a drunk. He doesn't drink anymore. He doesn't have a stomach left. They literally took out his stomach. And they said, no, no, get Albert Finney. So we met with Albert Finney, Mel and I, and Dick Benjamin and Mike Groskopf, the producer. And he said, I'm tired. I have, I just did Annie and Shoot the Moon. Right. And I need a rest.

And he said, but I'm going to say something. And I said this once before. He said, I will do this if you wait for me, but it'll be six months. And what I've said this once before, O'Toole's your man. How about that? I said this once before, O'Toole's your man. How about that? And that was so generous.

At one act or two, he said, he is this character, and they were in Rada together, and he said, when Barrymore died, O'Toole tried to drink himself to death. And he said that's how. So he had to play it because they were connecting. Absolutely. The dots were connecting. Benjamin was saying this is Barrymore. He had a fondness for Barrymore.

It's just everything fell into place. But the last time, the first time he said it, Finney, Lawrence of Arabia. They offered it to him first. I didn't know that. That's great. He said, and he was, it was after, if you remember Tom Jones. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That great film.

He was hot. Yeah. And he was, he was dashing and handsome and, you know, he was a real matinee idol. a real matinee idol. So that was, you know, I mean, it was so generous. And we wanted O'Toole. But this did it for the studio. And what was O'Toole like to work with?

He was a dream. He was not, there was only one day that he didn't show up, and it was a day in the script where he doesn't show up. But he was steady. Like Peter Sellers, he couldn't have brown things. Sellers couldn't have purple right i mean that they say that there was a you can't have anything purple near him or that that was a writer in his contract yeah that was he asked for nothing maybe just 12 bottles of of uh perrier um he was he knew every single line in the film. And when we offered to him, I said to him, he said,

I said, why are you doing this? He said, the last scene was a shot of Marklin Baker, who was discovered in this. Sure. Marklin Baker goes to the grave, Alan Swan's grave, and pours a bottle of Hagen-Hag pinch on the grave. And the camera, and he said, here, I hope some of this gets to you, you crazy bastard. And the camera tilts up, and it says Alan Swan at peace, and it has a date. And he said, where did you get the date of death?

And I said, just out of thin air. And it was. He said, it's me birthday. Interesting. Wow. That put him, he had to do it. He had to do it. So, I mean, he was a dream.

He and Richard, Richard Benjamin was also one of the sweetest men who ever lived. So you had a great experience. Everything was in a state of grace. It truly was. And one thing I had to once again jump out of place. How did they make the fart sounds in Boise Settles? Mel did them. Yeah.

On his arm. Kepala How about some more beans, Mr. Taggart? I'd say you've had enough. The hand under the armpit. A movie you could not watch on regular television, by the way, because the scene is, among other scenes, the scene doesn't exist. They had, in the Australian premiere, they had a bean supper. So people were farting all over the place. But he told you the one line that, which surprised me that he didn't put in.

Oh yeah, I saw him at Radio City a couple of weeks ago. The scene with Madeline and Cleavon and the lights are out and she says, is it true what they say about how you people are gifted,

which was her word, which I love. Gifted. And then there's a zip and you hear, oh, it's true, it's true. Woof. It's true. Excuse me, Ms. Von Stuck, but you're licking my arm. Right. That's the one thing the studio made him take out?

Yeah. We went, you're sucking my arm, you're biting my arm. He wouldn't, they, Mel took it out. The studio didn't. He did. Mel took it out. The studio didn't take it out. I mean, with all the other stuff in it.

It's just, why take that? I'd heard that Hitchcock was a big Blazing Saddles fan. He was. And I personally showed Ilya Kazan. Wow. I call him Gadge. But he was on the lot doing, with De Niro. Oh, The Last Tycoon.

The Last Tycoon. And I got a call. They said, Mr. Kazan would like to see Blazing Saddles. Love it. So I arranged a screening and I went up and I got to meet him. And I didn't want to sit with him. And I left. And he called afterwards and said he loved it.

It was hilarious. And he was very – said he loved it. It was hilarious. And he was very – he was a real gentleman even though he sent people to prison. Aside from that. And I heard Mel Brooks became friends with Alfred Hitchcock. He did. He did because he wanted to, the high anxiety, he wanted his approval. He wanted his blessing. And, you know, Mel has a lot of great Alfred Hitchcock dinner stories. Peter Bogdanovich told us a couple too. Yeah. I mean, he was – and he prominently displayed a picture of him and Hitchcock and Ann in his office. Yeah, he was – listen, you know, just to be in their presence, people like that.

Sure. Where did Rookie Carroca come from in my favorite year? Rookie Carroca. Because it's a stroke of genius. Carroca. Carroca. Was a real guy. And there was a guy, Martin Charnin, who wrote the music for Annie.

Oh, yes. I know the name. On me and wrote the book. And Martin Charnin's father-in-law was rookie karuka and he was a bantamweight hilarious a filipino you can't so speaking of great casts i mean and i i have a great fondness for that movie I mean, Bill Macy, Lou Jacoby. Oh, wow. I mean, Adolph Green, Lainey Kazan, Joe Bologna. Yeah. That's the best thing I think Joe ever did. Oh, he's wonderful.

Playing Sid Caesar. Yeah. Yeah, he is just great. He was so comfortable. Just great. He was so comfortable. And, yeah, that cast was at first, I guess the first person in the door for that was Tom Hanks. For the Marklin Baker part. Yeah, the Marklin Baker role.

Yeah. And he was just too tall. You know, we figured tall, shorter. Shorter was funnier than a tall. And then he went on, obviously, to do a splash. And it's funny, like Joe Bologna, who's played tough guy parts on shows. And I heard that Sid Caesar had like he had a temper and he was a strong guy yeah he was he was mel has a great story about sid uh was he was i don't know where they were but a cabbie

cut him off oh yeah you know this story sure he loves to tell it. Do you remember birth? Right. Go ahead. Yeah, I love it because Mel's stories just morph all the time. They become. Oh, yeah. But tell the story with the cabbie. It's a hysterical story. So the cabbie cuts Mel off and he cuts Sid off. And Sid pulls around the cabbie, blocks him so that the cabbie cannot move, and gets out of the cabbie.

He says, no, Sid, don't, don't, don't. And he goes in, and the cabbie sees him coming. He was a big guy. And he reaches his hand into the window, window and the cab is rolling up the window and there's about that much there's about eight inches of space and he grabs him around the neck and he says and he's trying to drag this guy through the eight inches of space and the cab the cab driver's head is at the window and he says, do you remember birth? But they had –

He pulled him out through the vent window. Yeah, they had a great, great time. You know, there was another story where Mel took – I mean, he's a sidekick now, Uncle Goopy. Oh, Howard. Oh, yes. You know this story. Oh, yes, yes. He took him out to Central Park.

Yeah. And he held him up. He had a gun. He took his wallet and he said, if you tell anybody, I'm going to kill you. And he didn't give it back until the end of the season. I heard, too, maybe this is Mel Brooks telling. He said then later on, he apologized to Howie Morris and they met again. I think they took a rowboat ride and he held him up again.

And he made him walk in the lake. Love Howard Morris. Oh, he was great. So as time winds down here, Norman, we could get some wild card questions here. Do you want to? Oh, wait. Go ahead. Fire away.

Quick Howie Morris story. Okay. I was at one of these autograph signings, probably the one you drove me to. Oh, the one we went to together. Yes. In Sherman Oaks. Yes. Where you picked me up like a pedophile.

I did. I dragged him to an autograph show 20 years ago. I was walking, and as I walked by one table, I didn't see who was there, and I hear this guy scream out, It's that loudmouthed fucking Jew. And I turn around. Who could be saying? I turn around. Who could be saying I turn around and it's Howard Morris.

That sounds right. Yeah, Don Knotts was there and Norman Fell. Oh my God. That was a day. Yeah. That was a day. So we could ask you

about Pavarotti because I'm fascinated by Yes, Giorgio, but also because you work with the great Franklin Schaffner who directed Planet of the Apes and Patton. Patton. Papillon.

And Papillon and Gilbert's favorite, The Boys from Brazil. Oh, my God. Great. You worked with him. I was amazed that he wanted to do this. Why? Why? And the first thing I said to him, I went to his house and I said,

there will be no funny tank scenes in this. And he said, I understand. He looked like Dwight D. Eisenhower. He was so patrician. He was such a great man, a great man. And to this day, I don't know why. The movie was Yes, Giorgio. Yes, Giorgio. It was based on a book.

Or See, Giorgio. See, Giorgio. I still remember Gene Siskel's line from the review where there's a line about Finney will water you. Yeah. Him saying, I don't want Finney to water me. Yeah. But you like to say you ended Pavarotti's screen career. Completely.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you ended Pavarotti's screen career. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think MGM wanted to bring back the musical, the Mario Lanza musical. And he never stepped foot on an opera stage. But Pavarotti was the biggest star in the universe at that point. And a totally delightful man. I could not – I never saw him eat. and a totally delightful man. I could not, I never saw him eat.

He always went off somewhere. But he was, he wanted to succeed and he said he'd lose 50 pounds before the filming. And I remember we had Kate Jackson at one point. And she went to Cher and said, should I do this film? And Cher said to her, never do a film with a star you can't get your arms around. And so she backed off. And we got – Catherine Harreld.

Kitty Harreld, who was Albert Brooks' girlfriend at the time. By the way, that session that you did with his brother – With Einstein? With Cliff. Oh, yeah. Bob. Bob. Bob was phenomenal.

Isn't he the best? Oh, God. You howled. He just comes out of the gate. Yeah. Oh, boy. What a family. And I know the other brother, the third brother, Cliff, who's in advertising.

Right. But Pavarotti was great. He had such a sense of – he was so regal. sense of, you know, of, of, he was so regal and he literally, I walk into restaurants with him and in, in Italy and I'd started going like this, waving to the crowd, but he was revered. And, um, you know, was it a mistake? Probably, probably not, but you know, what the hell, who's going to, but I, i i i had two films coming as my favorite year and and and uh pavarotti and this yes giorgio and i said how could that guy write these two films one was so wonderful the other one yeah but it i would it was a great – I have a wonderful picture of my son who's now 35 and Pavarotti with the same hat on.

He's in a backpack and Luciano is right next to him. It was – this memory for me is so vivid and so wonderful. So vivid and so wonderful. And every time he was at the Metropolitan, I would go to see him. And he was astonishing. Astonishing. I loved him. You brought up when things were rotten when you walked in the room before.

Gilbert and I have a lot of fond memories of in that cast, Dick Van Patten, Bernie Coppell. Richard Dimitri. Richard Dimitri. And Richard Dimitri was funny. One of the funniest. And he was also in Johnny Dangerous. That's correct. That's right. He played Roman Maroney, who says things like, call people fogging ice holes.

And, in fact, there's a hockey team in South Dakota called the fogging ice holes. And in fact, there's a hockey team in South Dakota called the Farging Ice Holes. So Richard, Richard, one of the funniest people. That whole cast was great. I can't believe that show lasted 13 episodes. Barry Diller. Yeah. Barry Diller said, I can't have this on my network. We were canceled with, I think, a 28 share.

But it was the era of Barney Miller and Starsky and Hutch. So they were fat with hits. No, it was so much fun. We had two sound stages and horses and all the costumes from the original Robin Hood. Wow. Yeah. And that was, you know. It's another one of those Mel Brooks projects that has a great affinity for movies.

Yeah. For old movies. Absolutely. And then he did Men in Tights. He did Men in Tights. And I called him and said, do you want me to sue you now? I said, what are you talking about? We probably should have done it as a film.

And I'm getting a signal. Well, we could wrap it in a couple of minutes. And I want to give Norman a chance to plug his course. But I also quickly want to ask you if you have a Pat McCormick story. I did a pilot with Pat McCormick. Because we'd be remiss if we didn't. It's called the Bay City Amusement Company. And he played one of the writers.

And the first day he came in, he's waving a piece of paper. He said, I just got my license. I can shit in the streets. Shit in the streets. And then he sat down at the typewriter and said, this is Lenny Bruce's old typewriter. It's got four extra Fs on it. But you know that famous line he said to Johnny Carson when the earthquake hit.

Remember this line? No, I don't know it. The earthquake hit, and on on camera the studio literally moved and pat ran out and whispered to johnny carson and and as soon as things settled carson said the god is dead rally is canceled he really was brilliant wasn't he yeah i want to know if you've heard this story and if not i'll just cut it you're going for the helicopter yeah there's one that um pat mccormick used to get together all of his writer friends and each one would try to outdo the other as far as for their, like, big dinner of the year.

And when it was Pat McCormick's turn, he took everyone by limousine to this heliport, and then they were all given a bag with a tuna sandwich and an apple in it. And they were like, what the hell is this? Because they were used to being in extravagant restaurants. And each one was led one by one into the helicopter. And there'd be a hooker in the helicopter who would blow the guy as the helicopter would circle the guy's house. And one of the writers that night went home and his wife said, so how was your evening? And he goes, oh, okay.

And he goes, how was yours? And she goes, well, it it was okay but there was a helicopter now tim conway kind of confirmed yes yes i was doing a commercial with tim conway and i said look um i heard this story it can't be true uh uh pat and that's all I got out. Pat M. And Tim Conway goes, helicopter? And I go, yeah. And he goes, and he just nods. He died. He was at the actor's home out in Hidden Hills or wherever the hell it is.

And somebody came. And he was sharing a room, you'll like this, it's good trivia, with Stanley Kramer. Oh, my God. Pat McCormick and Stanley Kramer. And it was Jack Riley came into the room and he said, Pat, I see you finally got a meeting. That's phenomenal. There's so much, Norman, there's so much we can cover. Oh's so much, Norman.

There's so much we could cover. Oh, my God, yeah. We didn't ask about McLean Stevenson or Alan King or free to be you and me and a lot of other stuff. And Johnny Dangerously we barely touched on and Wise Guys. But tell us about your classes and what you do. I have a program at Long Island University in Brooklyn, and we meet at the Steiner Studios.

Are you familiar with it? Yes, sure. Steiner, it's 12 sound stages going to 25, and there are eight shows shooting there. It's a program called TV Writer's Studio, and it's in its eighth year, and it's, talk about passing it on. This is great.

These kids want to be writers. There's never been a better time in history. Television. It's a renaissance. Television, yeah. Television is in its golden age and i i go out all across the country to recruit uh writers i take about 20 writers uh a year and it's it's uh it's been a joy uh so this is like you're giving yeah this yeah, this is what Belkin told you to do so many years ago.

I wanted to, I wanted to get out of, uh, Los Angeles. So did I. Yeah. I wish I'd met you and you'd given me that advice years ago. I wish I had given myself that advice.

Find a place, find a home. It's a, yeah, this is home. And anything else you need to plug. Yeah. No, no, no. You're writing again. Yeah, find a home. It's a, yeah, this is home. And anything else you need to plug. Yeah. No, no, no.

You're writing again. Yeah, I'm writing. I'm doing a book for a musical with a guy named Charlie Fox and Arthur Hamilton. Charlie Fox wrote Killing Me Softly. The Charlie Fox? The Charlie Fox. Love American style theme. Exactly.

Ready to take a chance again. Wow. Barry Manilow. He's a legend. Yeah. Charlie Fox and Arthur Hamilton, who wrote Cry Me a River. Wow. We're doing a musical version of School for Scandal.

Wow. Yeah. That's cool. And the next one we're going to do, Johnny Dangerously. That's when Michael Keaton is free. As a producer, not a star. So Charlie Fox wrote Ready to Take a Chance? I believe he did.

Yes, he did. Charles S. Fox. You remind me I live in a shell. Safe from the past. I'm doing okay, but not very well. No jolts, no surprises, no crisis arises. My life goes along as it should. It's all very nice, but not very good.

And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. He sang this to Chep. You're living with nothing to show for it. You get what you get when you go for it. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to take a chance again with you. When she left me in all my despair

I just held on, my hope was all gone till I found you there and I'm ready to take

a chance again great Ready to take a chance again Great, great He doesn't sing for every guest, Norman You should be honored And I want to tell our listeners to If you haven't seen My Favorite Year, do so immediately Thank you

Norman Steinberg Thank you, buddy Thank you It's been a pleasure Oh, thank you And I am a dedicated fan You are, buddy. Thank you. My pleasure. It's been a pleasure. Oh, thank you. And I am a dedicated fan. You are an entertaining fellow. Thank you.

You lost a job. Yeah. You lost a job because you said, no, I think Gilbert Gottfried's funny. That's how I'm looked upon. By the way, what was that? That they fire people for saying that. What was that thing about comedy and music being connected, by the way? Oh, yes.

I think we blew that to shit. Thanks, Norman. Thank you.