Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 14. Bill Persky

Episode Date: August 29, 2014

Five-time Emmy winner Bill Persky has led a charmed life in show business. Handpicked by comedy legend Carl Reiner to write (and eventually produce) "The Dick Van Dyke Show," Bill and partner Sam Denoff scripted many of the series' most memorable episodes, including "Coast to Coast Big Mouth" and "That's My Boy." Later, the duo would create the groundbreaking sitcom "That Girl" and write comedy specials for Bill Cosby and Mary Tyler Moore and Bill (now flying solo) would go on to produce and direct hit shows like "Kate & Allie" "Welcome Back, Kotter" and "Who's the Boss?". Bill sat down with Gilbert and Frank to talk about his journey through the golden age of TV comedy and working with EVERYONE -- including Steve Allen, Bob Hope, Tim Conway, Julie Andrews, Gene Kelly, Peter Sellers, and Orson Welles (to name but a few!). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. You might not know the name Bill Persky, but if you're familiar at all with the Dick Van Dyke Show, Kate and Allie, That Girl, or any of the Bill Cosby specials, your show of shows, specials by Bob Hope, you'll be aware of this Emmy award-winning writer, director, and actor.

He's been, if you're talking about any classic television show, your chances are excellent that this guy's name is in the credits. If there's anybody who knows about old show business, it's this next man. So we were thrilled to be able to have a chance to talk to him. Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Persky. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-star Frank Santopadre here on the amazing Colossal Podcast. Hello, Gilbert. Hi. How are you?

Yeah, don't talk to me. Did you get your wine? Yes, yes, I did. You know, we have something unusual today because usually when you mention the word television comedy writer, you think of strapping young Episcopalians. In what country are you thinking of? We actually found an old Jew television comedy writer. Shocking. We didn't have to go very far.

Now, the name might not be familiar to people listening, but if you've listened to the following people and laughed at them, like people like Orson Welles, Peter Sellers, Sid Caesar, Julie Andrews, Sonny and Cher, Danny Thomas, Bob Hope, Mary Talamore, Alan King, Steve Allen, Bill Cosby, Joey Bishop, Tim Conway, Harvey Korman, Don Knotts, Jay Leno, Martin Mull, Betty White, and George Siegel, just to name a few. And that was my first week. And ladies and gentlemen, Bill Persky.

Hello. It's funny because for so long it was like I was partners with Sam Denhoff. We were partners for 20 years. So sometimes people would call me Persky and Denhoff. But it's like when we were writing comedy back then, I don't know if it's still true now, but the comedy writing teams were known as the boys. Didn't matter how old you were, the boys.

That's like on Abbott and Costello's TV show. It always made me laugh when Fred Sitfield would go, boys, boys. Well, the funniest is there was a meeting where one of the comedy writers, Larry Marks' partner, couldn't make it and they went into the producer

and Larry Marks sat down and the producer said, boys, they just, there was no individuals. It was boys. That's what you are. And all the boys are now, like me, old boys. We should say, too, that we're in the Society of Illustrators right now

at a showing for the artist Drew Friedman. Oh, yes. Who will be coming up on a podcast. Yeah, his artwork is all over. Lining the walls. And Billy was just walking around the room and saying, I've worked with almost every one of these people. Jesus.

Wow. And I'm still here in their pictures. Wow. Maury Amsterdam looking right at me. I did the Van Dyke show. Oh, yeah. And Maury. You know, the funny thing is when you have an audience show, you do a warm-up.

And when Maury would do the warm-up, the show would get off to a very bad start. And Carl realized that Maury's humor was nothing like the humor of the show. So Maury would have people screaming and laughing, and then the show would start, and it would be nice. It would be about life. It would be funny. There would be no shtick in it all. And Carl said, Maury, you're not doing the warm-ups anymore. He said, they're crazy about me.

He says, you're a hit, but the show is dying. So Maury was that strong. Maury was that strong. Maury was the fastest. I think Maury was one of the fastest joke people I ever met. I mean, you know, you didn't finish the setup before he. And you also, Tom Leopold was on, who is one of the funniest people I ever met. And Tommy is a kind of a writer who, as he's telling you the joke, he rewrites it and it becomes a different joke

out of his mouth. I said, what happened to the original thing you were going to say? He said, I got tired of it. Now, I heard Maury also used to write for Rosemarie. Yes, yes. They had a great relationship. You know, another thing,

here's an interesting thing about Maury. Maury played Las Vegas when they first opened it, before anybody even got killed there. And he played a club, and he shot craps. And he had a great run, and he made about $20,000. And so he said, what am I going to do with this? His wife said, let's buy some property. So back in the early 40s, Maury bought about 12 square blocks of downtown Las Vegas.

It was a desert then, you know. And then it was worth billions of dollars. But that's because, you know, if they'd had a jewelry store, his wife would have probably wanted it. They didn't have anything there except desert. So he bought desert. They didn't even have dinner in those days. One thing I always want to know, was Maury's character, was Buddy Sorrell based on a real person? Because Sally Rogers was supposedly partially based on Selma Dime.

Yeah. No, Maury was just based on funny. He was an amalgam of several people. Maury never understood. He understood where the humor was. He didn't understand stories particularly. He didn't care. He didn't care.

But he was delightful. He was the sweetest man. I never heard him say a bad thing about anybody. Well, if you own 12 blocks of Las Vegas, what are you going to do? Who are you going to be mad at? Now, can you tell us how you started out in this long writing career you've had? I got a job for $30 a week at WNEW Radio back in 1955 as an assistant. I got an ad. It was an ad in New York Times for an assistant in the continuity department.

I had no idea what a continuity department was. the continuity department. I had no idea what a continuity department was. And I went up there and this guy said, okay, write a jingle and write a funny thing. And then he went out to lunch and I was sitting there and I said, I don't know how to write a jingle. So I wrote a jingle and I did a thing. And I got the job for $30 a week. And I still had no idea what the continuity department was. That guy had gone out to lunch to interview for another job. So when he came back, he had that job. And I was now head of the continuity department.

And I had no idea. I went in four hours from being in the continuity department to being the continuity department. So what it actually was is, you know, the disc jockey. And back then, WNEW was a radio station. There was nothing like it. It had William B. Williams and it had Claiborne and Finch in the morning. I mean, these are classic, you know, the make-believe ballroom, the milkman. They invented the music and news format.

So the continuity department was that every disc jockey show had a book, like a notebook. And the first thing was, hi, how are you? It's the date, and the weather is this. And then now we're going to play so-and-so and then the commercial. And it was really just putting the book together. It was most tedious job in the world. So out of nowhere, I just started to write little jokes. And then I had to hire somebody to be my assistant, who would also not know what the continuity department was and sam denoff came in and sam had been the bargain broadcaster at klein's department store

which is not even there anymore but he used to make the announcement ladies there is a truckload of fancy Italian shoes on the seventh floor. And people would run and they'd kill one another to get there. And he got fired because one day he said, ladies, we have two truckloads of maiden form brassieres and this is a bust out sale. And that was the end of him. So then he came to work. So then the two of us started to put the jokes on and the guys would laugh at them. And then William B. Williams started to read them

and the head of the station said, that's fun, you guys do that, right? So you're writing jokes for the disc jockeys? Yeah, we were writing jokes for the disc j writing yeah we're writing jokes for disc jockeys and uh then there was a christmas party and sam and i wrote a show that we did you know a satire thing was fun and this kid came up to us and he said uh i would like to represent you i'm with the william morris office i'd like to be your agent. And I mean, the thought of that was just,

there was never dawned on us that that could happen. And we said, well, that's great. And he said, well, I don't have my cards yet because I just got out of the mail room today. I said, I don't care if you're still in the mail room or if you ever get cards. And it turned out that was George Shapiro. George Shapiro is Jerry, discovered Jerry Seinfeld, and he's Jerry Seinfeld's manager.

He discovered Andy Kaufman. I mean, George Shapiro is probably the most successful manager, and he was our agent and in in those days everyone in the mars office was short you know because mr last vogel who who owned the agency he was short and he never wanted to go like that he always wanted to look down at people so when you talk and uh they were killers they were short little killers going around and george was the toughest guy in the world. When we started writing stand-up stuff for comics you've never heard of, and he would say, the boys get $100 up front or not a word goes on paper. And the guy said, well, we don't know if they're funny.

He said, would I represent them if they weren't? So that's how we got started. And our first check we ever got, there was a comedian by the name of Jimmy Casanova. Jimmy Casanova. Jimmy Casanova. Did that name mean anything to you, Gilbert? So now we meet with Jimmy Casanova. I swear this is the truth. And we said we have a great idea for a routine based on your name.

And he said, what's funny about Jimmy? As I said, comics you've never heard of for good reason. But the funniest is we wrote him a whole thing that he did at one of those wedding chapels out on Queens Boulevard, you know, with the dinner and everything and the show. And he was awful. The food was awful. I think that the bride and groom probably got divorced. They were awful. And he owed us $500 because we did five minutes.

because we did five minutes. So he signed over a check for $650 that was a settlement from an insurance claim he had for an accident he had in the revolving door at Bloomingdale. But he owed us five, and the check was for $650, and he wouldn't take a check. We had to give him cash. And so then we started writing for just anybody that George could find. We wrote for Ron Carey when he was in high school.

Wow. And he was hilarious, and we wrote for a series of teams. There were a lot of teams then. Everybody wanted to be the next Martin and Lewis, which there never was, obviously. But we wrote for Taylor and Mitchell, and then Taylor and Stewart, and Taylor and Stewart broke up,

and it became Taylor and somebody else, and Taylor and somebody else, and Taylor and somebody else. And finally, we said, you know, the problem is Taylor. Taylor and some of the others. And finally, we said, you know, the problem is Taylor. So the last guy he worked with, Mitchell, was really good.

And so he got a new partner. And they were represented by Joe Scandori, who was also Don Rickles' agent. And, you know, Rickles was just getting started then. agent and you know Rickles was just getting started then but Joe Scandori's biggest thing was that he was the manager and the son-in-law of the owner of the Elegante nightclub on Ocean Parkway which was the off-broadway version of the Copa in other words it was very connected, and a lot of people started there and stuff. But that was – Joe brought all of his acts in, and we would write stuff for them. And the first thing we wrote was for Mitchell and Sean, who – we wrote a thing hot off the front page about astronauts. They had just announced that there would be astronauts. Now, am I talking too much? No.

I mean, I want to hear what you have to say. No, you're like my perfect guest. Oh, okay. Where you just put you there, and I can take a nap. Okay. I'll put you to sleep. So, anyway, you've got to understand a little thing about the Elegante. It was on the weekends.

It was a big date place, right? But they kept it open during the week by selling the concept that your organization could have their celebration or their swearing in to their officers or their dance or whatever it was. And it was $20 a couple. And you got dinner and drinks and a show and it was 20 and it was great the only thing is they told like five different organizations that they had the club so when they got there it was a mob i mean you'd have the the German-American Bund sitting next to the B'nai B'rith. You know? So you literally had these people who hated one another, and they hated the club because they thought, well, this is our event. We're having the swearing in. So the first thing is Joe would send everybody a bottle of wine.

And then there was a guy who, when the show came, the food was great. Although I must say, I never had anything but veal parmesan there. Joe would say, he talked like this. And he'd say, give the boys whatever they want. So you look at the menu and we'd order lobster and we'd order this. And by the time the show started, you know, and you were eating and it was dark. And I said, this lobster tastes like it's got cheese on it. So everything I ever ordered ended up being veal parmesan.

But at any rate, the MC, which was like he was the first SEAL team member. I mean, that's how courageous you had to be to go up in front of this mob and try and turn them into an audience. He was fearless. And then the show would come on, and they'd have a dance team. And then they'd have this Italian woman. I forget her name. And she would make fart sounds during her song. She sang all these great Italian songs and doing things like that.

And she was doing that. And we were writing Blue Angel-type material. So we wrote this thing about the first astronaut, and they went out, and nobody knew what an astronaut was it was we thought we were so current but no one knew what it was and they're talking i'm up here on the moon and people are looking saying what the what's he doing on the moon and what's houston. They had no idea. So now, you know, I wrote a book about my life called My Life is Situation Comedy. So these stories are all in it, but they're relevant because they happened. And I always said in those days, every nightclub, they were all tough places. I mean, I'll just digress for a second.

Joey Bishop was on the road in Scranton, outside of Scranton, working at a nightclub. They were all tough places. I mean, I'll just digress for a second. Joey Bishop was on the road in Scranton, outside of Scranton, working at a nightclub. And in the middle of his act, two guys came in and held the place up. Bishop panics. And they said, keep talking, kid. So he's talking and people, they're going around taking everybody's money. And then they finish and they start to leave. And they said, you're good. Keep going. And now they sit down. They got guns.

And he finishes doing his act. And on the way out, they toss him a watch that they just stole from somebody else. just stole from somebody else. So in those days, the nightclub business was really tough because a lot of the smaller joints were really strippers, and they didn't care about the comics. They came out while the girl went on to put on new clothes to take off. And anyway, oh, God, they were great days, great days. So I said, and it's true, you call any nightclub in America and say,

is Rocco there? And they'll say, speaking or just a minute. At the Elegante, it was so tough, they said, which one? They literally had two Roccos. How much time did you guys spend writing for comics before you were able to jump to TV? Five years.

And the first TV gig was a Steve Allen show? Yeah, but I gotta tell you, because I'm looking at Marty Allen on the wall. Our big breakthrough was that we were gonna to write for Allen and – got a chance to write for Allen and Rossi. George said – because we had gotten a reputation already, you know. So they were like it.

And this was at the Copa. And we're sitting ringside at the Copa and drinks and stuff and everything. And they go on, and I hated them. I, you know, it's like I wouldn't have wanted to write for them if they paid me. It's like the comedy version for me of going on a cruise with a whole bunch of people I didn't invite. You know? And now, here I am, and I'm thinking, oh, my God.

And what are you going to say? You know? So they come off, and their shirts are open, and people are doing, and I'm sitting there, and I'm saying to Sam, what the hell are we going to say to these guys? So they come over, and they're giving us, huh? Wiping sweat off, throwing it at us and everything. And they said, so what do you think? And I said, you sure do 45 minutes. And they took that as the biggest compliment in the world.

Yeah, well, you know, all I did was tell them how long they were on. We just interviewed Marty Allen last week, Bill. I don't care. So we'll be sure to run these two back and forth. I don't care. I'll tell them to his face. I hated them. I hate them.

We'll run these two consecutively. We should have had you on together. No, I hate them. You know, there are certain people you say you can write for. Yes. I mean, I could no more write for them than, you know, for Hitler. It's the first time... I would have actually done all right with him. I mean, I could have thought...

I wouldn't have known where to start with them, you know? I'm a man who wrote about the first astronaut. It's the first time I've heard of Alan and Rossi compared to Hitler. No, he was a very sweet guy, God knows. But it's just like, I'm saying, God, I don't think they're funny. What are we

going to do, you know? Oh, Jesus. And then you started writing for... That first big break was Dick Shawn. Oh, okay. Was Shawn half of that comedy team? No, no, no.

I just – Mitchell and Shawn. I couldn't think of a name. I just thought Dick Shawn. It sounded like a comedy team. But Dick Shawn was this great comic, and his manager was a guy by the name of Pierre Cassette. And he saw something that we did, and he was a friend of Joe Scandori's and he said, those guys are good and Dick needs a hunk. And so we met him and Dick wanted to do something.

Lolita had just come out, the thing. And he said, I want to do something about Lolita. So we wrote a 20-minute musical comedy version of Lolita for him and we saw him do it only once down at the Deauville in Miami after he had set us up with all these comics and stuff. And he went out to do the Steve Allen show. And he said, I'm going to get you to California and be on television. That's my next assignment. And sure enough, the Steve Allen show came up.

And he was the agent on it and he talked us up. And so he said, I want you to send some material to Bill Dana was going to be the producer. He said, I want you to send some material to Steve. So by that time we had 10 pounds of comedy material. So we packed it up and we sent it to Steve. He was in San Francisco. And by the time it got to San Francisco, he had already left. So they said, we'll send it to Bill Dana. He's in Vegas.

So then they sent it to Bill Dana in Vegas, and he had left. So Steve was – it went to about 11 cities. No one ever saw it. So your package was following Steve Allen. No one ever saw it. I don't think we ever made back the postage. But anyway, with all that's going on, and there's so much talk about it,

well, the material's here, and it weighs a ton, and so, and Steve, and so, and so. And George is talking this up, and we get the job without anybody ever seeing the material. And I swear to God, this is the truth. I had an apartment on 81st Street, West 81st Street. first street west 81st street and we had by now i was earning 75 a week at wdw which back then was you know pretty good you know that was when you say i remember a bunch of guys sitting around saying what would you like to earn and i said i would well the biggest thing you could earn was 100 a week i mean there was no more money in the world than a hundred dollars a week. That was it. And so I was sitting with a bunch of guys and they said, well, what would you like to someday earn? I said, I would like to earn my age every year. And they said, you mean when you're 35,

you want to be earning $35,000 a year? I said, yeah. I said, what are you crazy? Who would? a year? I said, yeah. He said, what, are you crazy? Who would? I said, I would sign with the devil right now to just earn my age every year. So 75, they gave us $500 a piece, but a guarantee for three weeks. And then we were picked up for three more weeks. And then if it worked out, we'd be picked up for three more. My wife was pregnant and Sammy and I just said, you know what, this is it. It's never going to get any easier. We're never going to suddenly arrive. We got to take the shot and do it. So as I'm leaving the apartment to get into the cab, to go to the airport, a postman shows up with this package covered in stamps. Now weighs 11 pounds just from posting.

And it was the 10 pounds of material, which proves that it's more important to have 10 pounds of comedy material than for anybody to ever see it so you really got the job on the strength of george of george george and and sam had worked as a page with bill dana so he knew they knew each other but not in any great friendship but it was enough but ge George, George was just great. He wouldn't give up. So we went out there. My wife was pregnant.

And we had it three weeks, and it was scary. And Buck Henry was the other writer who came out from New York with us. He was doing an off-Broadway show, so we went out there together. in an off-Broadway show, so we went out there together. And on the first show, this kid who Steve had heard about in Cleveland came on, Tim Conway, and who was it? Bill Dana or George or somebody had seen the Smothers Brothers. So they were on the first show. So that was the first things that they ever did.

And Sam and I wrote a piece for Bill Dana about the protocol. There's something in the news about somebody coming to Washington and the protocol. So we wrote a thing about the protocol man. And he was the protocol man. And it was one of my favorite jokes too i and in the sketch he was dictating a letter to his secretary and he said take a letter to the

shah of zolzine dear zolzine shah which only the jews makes it sense tim didn't understand what the hell it was he said i have a piece just went over my head he said well zolzang shaming shut up i know i know it in italian yeah and so tim said well i have something i'd like to do and that was that how did this and this show only lasted five well the funny thing is we're there. The first week we did the thing for Tim and he didn't want to do it. So we're not scoring very big or whatever. And now the third week is coming up and we don't know if we're going to get picked up. And if we don't, what the hell is going to happen to us?

You know, we had $1,500 a piece, and that was it. And we did a sketch on the show Ben Casey, which was a big, the first of the medical shows, with Vince Edwards and Stanley and Sam Jaffe. Yes. Not with the diaper from Gunga. He didn't wear the diaper from Gunga Den.

He was playing the head doctor, Dr. Zorba. Dr. Zorba. And Joey Foreman. You know Joey? Did. And Joey Foreman. You know Joey? Did you know Joey Foreman?

Great impression. I know him from Get Smart. Yeah, he was on the show. And Steve was playing Ben Casey. And Joey was playing Dr. Zorba with a fright wig that was about 11 feet high. And so the opening of Ben Casey was that there would be a blackboard, and on it were these chalked figures. And he had a pointer at the beginning of the show,

and Dr. Zorba would say, this is the sign for man, this is the sign for woman, for man, this is the sign for woman, this is birth, this is death, and this is infinity. So the sketch, and this one joke saved my life. Show opens, this is the sign for man, this is the sign for woman. This is bite. This is death. This is infinity. And this is a pussycat. And it was just a

little chalk figure of a pussycat. And when Steve saw that, he got so... Steve used to cackle when something pleased him. He'd just cackle. And he said, pick them up. So we got picked up for the whole season, and they were canceled on the fifth show. And we got 26 weeks of 500, and it allowed us to stay.

Can I maybe bring the interview to a dead halt? I don't care. This is a drawing I made when I was a teenager. Yes. And That's amazing. Yeah, oh, thank you.

I'm surprised you got to your 20s. If you see here. Birth, death, infinity. No, birth. Man, woman. Birth, death, infinity. No, birth. Man, woman. When? Birth, death, infinity. Birth, death, and infinity.

Oh, that's hysterical. Yes. Where's the pussycat? Because I used to watch Ben Casey. Oh, that's so funny. And I remember Ben Casey was on opposite Dr. Kildare. Yes. And they even had, like, training cards for Ben Casey and Dr. Kildare with the gum in them.

Yes. Wow. But that was the joke, literally, that saved my life. I mean, I don't know. If we hadn't done that, we probably wouldn't have been picked up and God knows what, what would have happened after that. You know, we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor. And how did you make the leap from, or jump around a little bit though, from, from the Steve Allen show gets canceled in

five weeks. You get paid for 26. Yes. Tell us about the Van Dyke show and meeting. Well, that was a, that was, there was a lot of scared time in between that. Oh, tell us the bowling alley story real quickly. Oh God. Well, the first really next show that we got was the Andy Williams show. williams show and that had as its head writer a guy by the name of mort green who was known as velvet mort because he all of his sport coats had velvet collars and with his partner he had written perry como and the craft music he they were really big guys well this was at the other end of his career and then also on the show was one of the great comedy legend writers of all time harry crane i don't know if you if you know about harry crane but he was the funniest you know and they say about comedy writers nicest guy in the world

can't write his name or funniest man in the world, can't write his name, or funniest man in the world, don't turn your back on him. Well, Harry Crane was the second version. He was funny. And he was so crafty. And the thing about Harry was he was so brilliant, he didn't have to do all the stuff that he did to manipulate, you know. So we're on the show and we're like the junior writers. This is on the Andy Williams show.

On the Andy Williams show. And the first reading, we were doing a lot of the work, but we were not in any power position. We were lucky. That show was produced by Bud Yorkin and Norman Lear. And George had introduced us to them and they had seen some stuff we did and they liked us and I owe them a lot.

But anyway, we were just buried in the whole thing. And the first reading of the script with the network and the whole bunch of people around. And we had heard about harry and be careful harry and and mort was there was a war between them for power and stuff and so they do the first reading and on the second page there's a huge laugh and harry says to the room

the boys wrote that so i turned to sam i said you know people are wrong about him that's what a nice thing he never said it again we were there for an hour and 20 minutes about 100 pages and about 50 other jokes that were hysterical that we wrote but he never mentioned it again so we were not high on the list so the show got canceled anyway and and harry had managed to survive and and you know he was very outspoken about he said guys i had to make some sacrifices you'll learn along the way you'll do Great, so on, so on, so on. So now my baby is born. I've got a rented convertible. I don't know where the next dollar is coming from.

There's a wrap party. Did you ever go to a wrap party where you were not wanted? You know that feeling where everybody, and you're the people who are not coming back. Several. And you're not the who are not coming back. Several. And you're not the caterers, so what the hell are you doing? So the only person who was nice to us at the wrap party was Claudine Lange, who was Andy's wife. And I would have gone as a character witness for her in the murder trial. I said, if she killed him, he deserved it.

So anyway, we're now supposed to meet these two comedians at the Covina bowling alley. They're playing the lounge. It's pouring rain. We don't have a job. I'm in the car. I'm thinking, I got to bring the car back. Go on. I got lost.

Who goes to Covina, you know? And going to the Covina bowling alley, we pull in. There's no parking near the place. It's pouring. We don't have umbrellas. Who has umbrellas in California, right? So we're walking. We get into the place.

It's soaking wet. The air conditioning is up. I'm freezing. And the guys are on in the lounge. We got there late. And they're working. And every punchline, it seems, someone hits a strike. And the pins are flying and the people are screaming.

And so no one laughs at them because they're not hearing anything, you know. And so we sit down with these two guys afterwards. It was the most depressing drink I've ever had. It was Rowan and martin oh wow rowan and martin now you told you were telling me a story uh if you could tell this one right about the great jan oh jan oh this jan murray had a grandchild and he was so excited, and the whole family was excited, but he was going up for a part in a movie. So he came home.

The baby had just been born, and he comes in. He gets everybody together. They're in the hospital, and he says, nobody can say anything about the baby. He said, well, what do you mean? No, no announcements, nothing. I'm up for a part in a movie. I don't want them to know I'm a grandfather.

It'll screw everything up. Just don't say anything about the baby. But it's the happiest I'm thrilled. I couldn't be happier. Don't tell anybody we have the baby. But it's the happiest. I'm thrilled. I couldn't be happier. Don't tell anybody we have the baby. Well, she'll be good. No, shut up. Use a strange name. I have to have the meeting tomorrow until at least tomorrow. There can be no grandchild. Do you understand? And that family's fighting. His wife wants to kill him. What says, what kind of a person are you?

You're just had a grandchild. You haven't even seen it. I don't want to see it. I don't want to know it. It doesn't exist. So now he goes in the next day to the meeting. And he walks in. And the producer looks at him.

And he says, oh, Jan, yeah oh jan yeah what he said i don't know for some reason i thought you were older he said are you kidding i'm a grandfather oh i tell you and i don't think i don't, God bless all the guys who are around today and they're brilliant. But there just, there isn't the, that's not the word. I mean, Jerry Seinfeld's brilliant and all those people are brilliant. But there just, there isn't the suffering in the same way. There isn't the struggle in the same way as the great old guys had, you know? And there was just Phil Foster here. Yeah.

Phil Foster, one of the sweetest guys in the world. He traveled with a, his manager was, what the hell was his manager? Great guy. They traveled with this guy who was a musician. And he he was the first guy to get polio. You know, people say, when did you get polio? I said the day it came out. And Vernon Duke, Vernon Duke, Vernon Duke, Vernon Duke. And Harry Morton.

That's who Phil's manager was. Honey, I don't have Alzheimer's yet. I'm remembering old names. And so they were crazy. They were funny. So now they took Duke everywhere, and he had these canes that he walked with, and he used to play his fingernails when music was on. He had long fingernails, and he would use them like cymbals, and he was great.

So they would always play tricks on him, right? So once they took him to the Meadowbrook, Frank Daly's Meadowbrook, they drove up, they dropped him out of the car into the guy's arms, the doorman. They said, what am I going to do? He said, take him inside. He loves to dance.

I mean, so now, now they're driving cross country. Now, they're driving cross-country, and every night that they stop, they shave a little bit off of Duke's canes. Just about an eighth of an inch. By the fourth night, he's like about three-quarters of an inch. And he's being very strange. And they're saying, what's wrong, Goofy? He says, I don't want to say nothing. They said, well, what, what? I think I'm growing.

Harry Morton got a Volkswagen. It was the first one. He said, you can't believe the mileage in this thing. He said, they really aren't good. So Phil Foster and Duke every night went and put gas in his car. He was up to 150 miles a gallon. I got to be talking too much. No, no such a thing.

I haven't even gotten started yet. You want to tell us about the Van Dyke Show and how Carl Reiner, your mentor, came into your life? Oh, my God, yes. Well, everybody wanted to write for the Van Dyke Show. And in those days, you would write a sample script. Now you really can't do that because they won't look at it because they'll say, you know, if we come up with a similar idea and you've got to have an agent to submit it. And most young writers can't get an agent until they got a job and you can't get a job until you get an agent.

But back then there were guys like George who loved finding people and were proud of them. Ronnie Meyer, who is now the president of Universal, was my agent after Ronnie, after George. And he took such pride in my work. I mean, he loved it, and he loved when I'd get a job, and he loved when I won an award. But at any rate, we wrote this uh sample Van Dyke and George got it to Carl and it was not really good but it I mean it was stupid but uh

Carl thought there was enough in it that maybe we should have a meeting with him and Sheldon Leonard. So simultaneously, Tim Conway was now on McHale's Navy. And so he got us a script on McHale's Navy. And in those days, it's like if you did variety, you couldn't do situation comedy. You were very much stratified. And it's like if you did television or movies, you couldn't do the theater.

I always said it was like a cake. Television was at the bottom, movies was in the middle, and the theater was on top. You could fall down the cake, but you couldn't fall up. You know, I mean, so to break through to the next level was really hard. So Tim got us this script for McHale's Navy, which we wrote. And incidentally, three weeks ago, I got a check for 37 cents from Guam for the McHale's Navy, which I had to send my ex-wife 16 cents for 17, whatever the hell it was. So I said, go have a party.

And she and all the checks that she gets, she calls up the billing department and asks for an accounting. I'm so embarrassed. I said, it's from heaven. You don't deserve it. You're lucky you're not dead in the street from how mean you were. And you're calling up that girl

and Marlo Bacan saying, how can there be still such legal fees on that girl? And I say, it's for the DVDs, which didn't exist when I wrote it. The technology wasn't there. This is like magic. Why are you just hide it? Don't tell anybody. They'll come take it away from us because we don't deserve it.

Don't you understand? Oh, that's great. So anyway, we're doing McHale's Navy. And there was the producer was a guy named Cy Rosen, who was a very nice guy, but he was such a stickler. Who I worked for later in life. You did tough. I mean, it was a very irritating voice story for another very slow so now we go to universal for that meeting and on every page of the script

why did you put and in that third speech, because it was a series of things and it was the last one and so and so. I said, well, can you kind of find another way to do that? Well, there is no other way. So now we got there at 9 o'clock in the morning and we go to lunch at this Chinese restaurant and I said to Sam, we're never going to do it.

We can't do it if this is what it's like. And we had turned the script into Carl too already at that point, waiting to hear on that. We spent five hours going over a 30-page script. So humiliating, so depressing. And we had an office. Everything is a story. We had an office that was at the end of a corridor, and it was a little room, and there were a couple other offices in the way

along the way and our office was so small that i had to sit in the law in the hallway because sam would sit at the typewriter and it was about as wide as this but the big attraction was it had a bathroom. The bathroom was bigger. But also, over the desk was a huge picture of Mount Fuji with shutters. Like, you could open the shutters and see Mount Fuji. And next to us

was Ellis Gold Productions of a guy who handled porn stars. Now, unfortunately, he was up there, and my back was turned through all the time. Sam could look out, and he's looking out like this, and I didn't want to embarrass myself. So anyway, we now get back to the office, and we're just sitting there. And the phone rings, and it's Carl. And I'm not ready to hear this, right? And Sam said, yeah. Oh, hi, Carl.

He said, yeah? No kidding. Oh, yeah, tomorrow, yeah, yeah. And I said, what, what? He said, Carl said it's the best script he read. He wants us to come. He's going to give us an office, and we can write as many shows as we can handle.

And that was all in the course of one day. And wasn't the Dick Van Dyke show originally basically the Colorado story? It was a pilot that Carl did for himself. But Carl, you know Carl? I met him a couple of times. Carl is the gift of the world. I mean, this man, there is nobody like him in the world. He is the most, I could take three hours, but he's the funniest, the sweetest, the most honorable, the toughest.

I mean, tough in terms of integrity and stuff. Because the first show we wrote was about them thinking they had the wrong baby. And it ended up we were at the – you know, this is 1962. And we had this great show. It was really funny. It was based on the fact that when I had my first child, we got some flowers that were meant for somebody else and some candy, and I said, how do we know we got the right kid?

There was no DNA. There was, but they didn't use it, so there was no way to know. So here we have this thing, and there were hilarious things that Dick did in it. And when we got to the end, we said, we got to have something that everybody knows that it's the right kid.

So the only thing you could do was have it be a different ethnic mix. So we always thought, well, we'll use Asian, you know. But Carl said, you know what? Let's make them black. Well, this was unheard of at that time. I mean, the racial tension in the country and stuff. So great. So he went to the network, saw the script and said, well, you can't do that. And he said, why?

They said, well, the country is going through a change. And I don't think the country is yet ready for a white couple to be making fun of a black couple. And Carl said, no, no, you don't understand. This is the black couple making fun of a black couple. And Carl said, no, no, you don't understand. This is the black couple making fun of the white couple. And the guy said, well, they're certainly not ready for that. And the funny thing is when we did the show, there was an audience. And if the ending didn't work, because we didn't really know what to expect, and if the ending didn't work, we didn't really know what to what to expect and if the ending didn't work we were going to have to reshoot and with an asian couple or whatever

and and it was really important and it turned out to be a major important breakthrough in television that and that's carl reiner and his guts you know. And we did the show in front of an audience, about 300 people. And I was standing next to Carl. And when the door opens and Dick just does a take, and then he says, come in. And in comes Greg Morris. From Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible. And this, I forget the young woman's name, but they come in and there is a deadly silence.

Long enough for Carl to say to me, oh, shit. And then a laugh started that went on for 20 minutes. Every time we quieted the audience down and did it over again, they would start over again. We couldn't get the show finished because they kept finding new levels on which it was funny so that was the first van dyke show we did but we went from this nightmare in the morning to this incredible experience and we wrote 14 van dyke shows that first season and wrote 48 overall and you know

wrote on most of them and produced the last half of the fifth season because Carl went to do the Russians are Coming. He turned the show over to you and Sam pretty much. Yes, and it was fine. Mary and Dick loved it, but Richard Deacon never accepted us. Richard Deacon and Rosemary never liked us. And so when we came to the first reading where we were producing the thing, we used to sit at the table, and Carl would sit at one end,

and Sam and I would sit at the other end, and Sheldon Leonard, who was the executive, he'd sit on a director's chair behind us. And you could always tell how the show was doing because Sheldon would if he didn't like something he would breathe.

And we were the only ones that knew that he didn't like it because he was breathing on us. Anyway, the first show that we produced

we walk in and we're saying what are we going to do? We're not going to sit in Carl's seat. We'll just stay in our seats and we'll leave it empty. So that's what we did. And we get there and we start the reading and the phone rings and Richard Deacon picks it up. And he said, just a minute.

It's for Carl Reiner. And he gave me the phone. The person said, is this Carl Reiner? And I said, no, ma'am, it's not Carl Reiner, but I'm doing the very best I can. And that kind of broke the ice. Are we through? Is it still?

I think we have a couple more minutes. I forgot what you sound like. You haven't asked me anything. Say something. Most people wish they forget what I sound like. get what i sound like we will return to gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this the first time i saw gilbert's act he was doing a ted bessel bit oh and i know you were friends with ted bessel i'm sure gilbert's interested ted bessel was one of the funniest comedians. Wow. He was so funny. I mean, he was one of the funniest people I ever met.

He was great. He was also a brilliant athlete and a terrific actor. He did that show, A Man's World. Remember A Man's World? The title sounds... Yeah, it was a bunch of guys living on a houseboat and going to college in, in the middle of India. Gilbert,

you're now suddenly I'm embarrassed. Ask him about me and the chimp. He'll know that. Yeah. That killed. And for people who don't know, uh, Ted Bessel was the boyfriend of Marlo.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And the most popular co-star on television. Every young girl wanted to marry Donald Hollinger. He was the best guy. And it's funny because Teddy had a picture. He had his regular, you know, his autographed picture thing.

But then he had one made because so much of the show was on over shoulders and stuff with Marlo that he had his publicity picture from the back. No one's going to recognize my face. He was great, Teddy. Teddy was terrific. he was great, Teddy. Teddy was terrific. Who were some of the people you've hated in the business? Would you talk about any of them?

You know... He's already given you Marty Allen. No, I didn't. Hold it. I didn't hate Marty Allen. I hated their act. There's a difference. There's a difference. No, there's a difference. There is. There's a difference.

No, there's a difference. I mean. I'll never play this show for Marty. Ted Cruz from Texas. I hate him. I hate his act. There's a difference. Marty Allen, nice man, didn't like his act.

You know what I mean? You have to differentiate these things. My first wife, the whole package. We haven't gotten partway through my career yet. I think I can help you out with Gilbert's question, though. What? Someone you worked with in a pilot called Baby, I'm Back. Oh, God, yes.

And he won't listen to this podcast, Bill. No. Well, the funny thing, it was DeMond Wilson, who was the son on Sanford. Lamont. Lamont Wilson, who was the son on Sanford. Lamont. Lamont Wilson. And so he did a pilot of a show called Baby, I'm Back, about a guy who had left his wife and came back and so on and so on. I remember this.

Yes. Denise Nicholas. Denise Nicholas. And it was written by one of the really terrific women writers at the time, producer writers who lived with Mort Lockman. Not Trevor Silverman. No, no, no, no, no. It was, at any rate, so he was just awful. And it was.

There you go. No, no. was just awful and and and it was there you go no no harry i'll tell you i'll tell you harry harry crane line that will be the last thing because it has to do with this yeah but anyway i go in and it was early on i mean sanford and son had been on but there weren't a lot of uh shows with blacks and and and white people running them you know know what I mean? Bernie Ornstein and Saul Turtletaub did Sanford and Son, and they got along great because Red was just a terrific guy. But DeMond Wilson, LeMond. DeMond.

DeMond. Yeah. DeMond Wilson. Oh, you big dummy. I walk in, and he's being really unpleasant. And everybody is taking their cue from him, you know. And we start reading and I start talking and he's looking and he's saying, yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh. I said, let's get something straight.

You know how to be black. I know how to be funny. You take care of that. You take care of that. You take care of that. And I won't interfere. And I'll take care of this. And you don't interfere. So at any rate, he carried a gun.

Wait. He carried a gun because he was such a big star, he had to protect himself So The producer What's her name? Oh God I can't remember

She'll never speak to you again She says to me I understand that Daman is carrying a gun I said yeah Apparently, apparently so. She said, well, tell him he can't. I said, no. The producer tells him he can't.

The director tells him how to hold it. So anyway, they were doing a Dean Martin roast in Vegas that Harry Crane did all the head writing. He was big with Dean and Frank. They loved him. So DeMond Wilson comes down. And now they got Orson Welles on the panel. They got Frank Sinatra. They have Stephen Eadie. They have the whole world, and they had DeMont for some reason.

He comes down. His limo isn't big enough. He won't leave the airport. He wants a stretch. They got to get him a stretch. He gets to the thing. He's sweet as it. He is nothing but a pain in the ass.

So finally, and then the writing, he didn't like the jokes and everything. And so Harry says to him, Demond, I see the way you're acting here. You're a pretty big star, right? He said, you bet your ass I am. He said, you know, and you know a lot of big stars. He said, yeah. He says, you have pictures with them? He said, yeah. He says, you have pictures of them? He said, yeah.

He said, keep them for the wall of your car wash. Great stuff, Bill. This has been the fastest and easiest show I've ever done. We didn't do anything. I'm having a good time. Yeah. You don't want to hear more about the marriage? You'll have to come back.

You don't want to hear about the fact that it ended in an improvisation in an acting class? Okay. Next time. I'm not going to tell you that. Next time. Will you tell us about Orson Welles next time? Oh, Next time. I'm not going to tell you that. Next time. Will you tell us about Orson Welles next time? Oh, my God. Oh, yes. We didn't scratch

the surface of the things you have to talk about. No, it's true. I just have had the most wonderful, wonderful experiences. I mean, I really have. And when you say anybody I didn't like, I really I I can't, I can't think. Well, I didn't like Sidney Beckerman.

Between now and the time you come back, could you make a list of people you didn't like? I didn't like Sidney Beckerman. Well, this is, finally I get a chance to talk on my own podcast. This is the Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm Gilbert Gottfried with Frank Santopadre and we've been talking to the great Bill Persky. And it has been so

much fun. I've learned so much about you. I mean, there are things that came out that I think probably were hard and very personal. Very personal.

And I don't know if some of your best friends know the things that you've revealed to me here today. And I'm honored. And I'm going to keep everything you told me just between us. Thanks, Billy. Thank you. We love you.