Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 154. Barry Levinson - Recorded Live at TriBeCa Film Festival

Episode Date: May 8, 2017

In a special live episode (in association with the 2017 Tribeca Film Festival), Gilbert and Frank welcome Academy Award-winning director Barry Levinson, who recalls his early days as a sketch performer, his collaborations with comedy icons Carol Burnett, Mel Brooks and Tim Conway, and the experience of directing Dustin Hoffman to an Oscar in "Rain Man." Also, Warren Beatty breaks Gilbert's heart, Jackie Gayle riffs on "Bonanza," Rodney Dangerfield runs afoul of the law and "Diner" influences future generations of filmmakers. PLUS: The curse of The Mummy! The brilliance of Bruno Kirby! The "magic" of Art Metrano! Jack Riley salutes Jack Benny! And Barry remembers the dynamic Robin Williams! This episode is brought to you by BullGoose Shaving (www.bullgooseshaving.com code: GILBERT) and The Rant is Due with Lewis Black (www.audible.com/lewisblack). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. And now, coming to you live from Regal Cinemas in beautiful downtown New York City, as part of the Tribeca Film Festival, it's Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I think we should show him a movie, don't you, Gil? Yes, Todd. Boy, this place is packed. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our guest today has accomplished so much over his career, we don't know where to begin the introducing. But here goes. We don't know where to begin the introducing. But here goes. He's a writer, producer, occasional actor, and one of the most prolific and celebrated film directors of the last five decades.

He co-wrote the screenplay for the courtroom drama And Justice for All, and collaborated with Mel Brooks on the screenplays for both Silent Movie and High Anxiety. As a producer, he's helped bring to the screen feature films such as Donnie Brasco, The Perfect Storm, and Analyze That, as well as the landmark television shows like Oz and Homicide Life on the Street. His impressive body of work as a director includes some of the most popular and prestigious movies of the last 35 years, years, including Diner, Good Morning Vietnam, Tin Man, Sleepers, Bugsy, Wag the Dog, and Rain Man, for which he was awarded the Oscar for Best Director. His newest film, starring Robert De Niro and Michelle Pfeiffer, is called The Wizard of Lies. We're very grateful to have him here on the podcast, although he did take time out to make us fill out a football quiz before he agreed to do it.

Please welcome to the show Baltimore's favorite son, the multi-talented Barry Levinson. Thanks, Barry. You did it like sort of like an announcer at some stadium or something. Oh, yeah. And the thing about it was very big. Now, wasn't John Forsythe an announcer at the ballpark? John Forsythe?

John Forsythe? Yeah, John Forsythe. Was he? From Bachelor Father. Really? And he was in Injustice for All. Yes, he was. But he was an announcer?

And he was originally supposed to be Charlie. And Charlie's... Oh, well, he was. But he was an announcer? And he was originally supposed to be Charlie. And Charlie's... Oh, well, he was. He was. The one who was originally was Gig Young. Oh, he was? That's right. That's right.

Okay, now... You know these things. Yeah, I know stuff that people really don't want to know. Now, first of all, I have to say, fuck you, you ruined my career. Because out of all the movies you've done, they've all been major hits.

And you hire me for some piece of shit pilot you're working on. That could have been a terrific show. Yes. Could have been. Tell us about that pilot. Could have been.

What was it called? Toast to Manhattan, right? Yes. Which was, it was sort of like, would have been like the Ed Sullivan show, except it begins with good night, everybody. Right. It would have been like a good night, everybody. Right. It would have been like a good night, everybody. And so the show, we see the making of the show through the course of the week.

And it ends when it begins. And in it, we had all these sketches and we had all of this kind of backstage stuff that was going on. And you did a bunch of things for the show. Yeah. It was a good cast. In a way, it was. Yeah. Paul Reiser was on it. Carol Ephron was on it. Yeah. Yeah. going on and you did a bunch of things for the show yeah it was a good cast in a way it was yeah paul reiser was on it yeah carol ephraim was on it yep yeah and and it was kind of like a live

action muppets in that way like the butt goes on backstage uh and and i even have that song stuck in my head that was the song of toast to man to Manhattan was supposed to be like an Ed Sullivan-ish show. And I remember the song. It was, It's the Toast to Manhattan, the Toast to Manhattan, so this must be Sunday. The Toast to Manhattan,

the Toast to Manhattan, and here's our own Freddy. Every Sunday, every Sunday, with lots and lots of variety. This was a failed pilot. Yeah. In the 70s. Yes. And you remember the theme song.

Yeah. And he's the only one. It's impressive. Only one could ever remember. I don't even know that. And I remember I did a character on this show. And I was in my late 20s at the time we were doing this. And they said to me, oh, well, how would you describe the character?

And so I said middle-aged. And somehow through the makeup department and producers, they did like this 10- makeup job on me like that. That Boris Karloff. They called in Jack Pierce to me to do it. And you were middle aged for the show. Yes. Yeah, it was. Well, it middle aged became like Dorian Gray after he stamps the painting. And so everyone else, their call time would be 9 o'clock.

Mine would be 3 in the morning. All that for a show that didn't go anywhere. Yeah. And you had on, also on this show, two people who not only you've worked with later, but who you were in a comedy team with years ago. Craig Nelson? Yeah. Craig T. Nelson. How many people know Barry and Craig T. Nelson were part of a comedy team? Nobody would know that. No one. And the writer Rudy De comedy team. Nobody would know that. No one.

And the writer, Rudy DeLuca. Craig and I used to play, because we were in acting school together and then trying to make money, we started to put together some material and we played clubs in LA.

We did this act. You do like three shows a night. Neither one of us wanted to do that, but clubs in LA and we would, we did this act, you do like three shows a night, you know, and, uh, neither one of us wanted to do that, but we were able to at least get some money and, you know, Craig wanted to act. And I, I just didn't want to do that. I didn't know what to do yet, but I didn't want to do that idea of getting up in front of an audience and, and performing, but it wasn't bad, you know, it wasn't bad to do you know but uh we quickly got out of that well we were talking about on the runway i was telling you how hard it is to find any traces of that act you would yeah there was a g college ball there's a reason for it

there's there was a g college ball skid college ball there was a drill a marching marching band marching with three of us yeah we do a mark a precision marching band. There were three of us that would do a precision marching band. Right. Three people. And it actually worked. You can't talk about it. It's one of the things you have to sort of see. Because we had great precision, and all we would do is I'd hand him a rifle, he'd hand me the rifle, and Rudy would make a little noise.

And that's it. It was about as ludicrous as something you could possibly do. And it worked in all circumstances. And I think in the pilot, you performed that with them. Did we? Yeah. We did that periodically. Even after, you know, we all stopped doing that.

Rudy DeLuca, by the way, for those of you who know, high anxiety, is the guy with the metal teeth, the killer. But do any traces exist of this stuff? Is there anything on beta, or is it lost to the ages? It's pretty much gone, because in those days, you know, when they would, they used to, you know, you had to do the show

and you can get a kinescope of it. They didn't have even the video of it. And it cost us too much money to get a kinescope of it right they didn't have even the video of it and it cost us too much money to get a kinescope so we couldn't afford it and when we finally got some money to like get the kinescopes they went no no we got rid of all that stuff so everything that we had done was all erased no whole movies nothing zero wow and you said before acting or writing or directing, you were in radio. I was wanting to be in radio. And I didn't have that radio voice.

And when I was at American University, and I got a chance to be on radio. But they said, you know, radio, because it was FM. And they said, FM means fine music. And so I started to play, you know, some rock and roll, you know, radio, because it was FM. And they said, FM means fine music. And so I started to play, you know, some rock and roll, you know. And then they said, no, you can't do that. You cannot possibly do it. And you have to play classical music. But I so wanted to be a DJ. And, you know, that kind of DJ voice, which I didn't really have.

But I would do it this way, you know. Okay, up next, we got Beethoven coming your way. Full blast. Here we go. The fifth. And then they threw me off the radio. So you actually started officially in local television. I went to local TV after that.

The first kind of legit showbiz job. I was basically at american university and i'd taken courses and i would do the ranger house show in the morning then i run back and take a class and i come back and do the news and then uh i'd mentioned before is that before they had the computers when you would do the late show or the late late show you had to roll the commercials into the into the show so you know you'd see a little mark on the screen and you say stand by 10 seconds and then you'd roll and you go to the slide the late show then go to the commercials and that's what you would do and that's where i saw in a sense my education in

terms of films because i saw films that i had never seen others i never heard of citizen kane i mean i didn't something i never heard of I remember going back to the diner with the guys. Did you ever see this movie called Citizen Kane? They went, what? Citizen Kane, you know, it sounds boring. What is that? And so we had no knowledge because those films, which were in the early 40s, you know, they were just coming to television and we would never have seen them in a movie theater. So all of those classic films I saw, and I'll tell you one quick thing, because you used to roll the, the late show would begin at 1130 at night and would go until whenever it ended. And then there'd be the late, late show. And one night at the first commercial break, the film runs out and you can see going 10,

nine, I go, I go to the to the slide you know and says the late show and then we go back and i couldn't figure out why you know it ran out at the wrong time and all of a sudden at 10 minutes to 12 glenn ford is in it and all of a sudden it goes the end at 10 to 12 and we realize is that the last reel got put up first. So at 1130, you're watching the last reel, and we go to the slide, and the booth announcer is great. He says, and now for the beginning of the man from the Alamo. Now, here's what's interesting.

This is a big television station. It wasn't some small little thing. No one called up and said, why didn't you play the last reel first? Not one person. Not one complaint. And so therefore, we saw the last reel and then at 10 minutes to 12 is the first reel and not one complaint.

I love it. Now we talked backstage. I'm going to make you tell the George story because it's so interesting. I mean, your origin, I've researched 175 guests and you and your your uh your beginnings in show business it's a very strange journey you were in baltimore obviously you had no designs on being a filmmaker i've heard you say you didn't even know who to ask no in baltimore how to begin i didn't even have an idea about anything and at a a certain point, after working in local television, and then at some point I quit, and then I drove across country and ended up in Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach area.

And I was broke, didn't really know what to do. And I ran into this guy named George, and we would hang around together, you know, and he had a friend, and we would hang out. And at some point, we sort of pulled our resources and got a little apartment, you know, and did that. One day, George came up to me and says, I got to go into Hollywood, and my car broke down. Can you give me a ride? I said, all right, because I had not been up into Hollywood. I'm just down at the beach. And so we drive up there, and we pull up, and he says, come on in. I said, well, where are you going? He said, well, I want to check out this, you know, acting class. I said, acting class? I'll wait in the well, I want to check out this, you know, acting class.

I said, acting class? I'll wait in the car. I don't like that stuff with acting. And he said, no, no, no, come on in. You'll feel obligated. So he drags me and we go in there. And after the class is over, it's a couple hours, he ends up signing up and we're riding back and it's an hour away from the beach from Hollywood. And he said, you know, you ought to join. I said, what am I going to do? He said, well, you know, it doesn't matter. There were some good looking girls in the class, you know, and, you know, we'll just be in that, you know, acting world, you know, we'll just do that stuff. And so I said, but I don't want to be an actor. He says, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So he's, so I ended up going back the next day, you know, and so I tell the acting teacher I want to join.

And and I said, but I don't want to do anything. So what do you mean you don't want to do anything? I said, I don't want to act. He said, well, what are you going to do? I said, I just watch. You know, he said, no, you can't watch. You either have to be in the acting class and do the exercises or don't. So I thought, oh, OK, I'll do it. So now George and I go back and forth an hour each way. We split driving, et cetera. Then about two months in, George gets bored and he doesn't really want to go anymore. And he'd rather just sit in front of the TV in a beach chair. And he used to smoke a joint. And I'd be going up and back by

myself. And at some point I said, George, you know, I, you know, I'm driving, I'm doing all this, but you don't go to acting school. And I'm going to move up into Hollywood and be closer to the school because I'm beginning to like it. And I started doing the improv stuff and it was interesting and all of that was happening. So I moved out. Now, you know, obviously, this is an age before cell phones. So literally, within weeks, I can't reach him anymore. And I never see him again. Never. I don't see him anymore. So if somebody ever said, how did you get into the business? I'll say, well, because George, the acting school, the acting school led to improvs and improvs led to, you know, writing and performing. And ultimately, it led to, you know, directing, et cetera. And it's all basically with George. And they said,

so what happened to George? I never saw him again. Never saw him. So I go to the movies like years 2000. I'm with my wife and go see this movie. You know, it's called Blow. And it begins as Manhattan Beach, 1968. I said, Manhattan Beach. I was there in 1968. Then I hear a voice go, hey, George, you want to say? I said, George, I knew a guy named George, right? Now, if you saw the movie, it's starring Johnny Depp. And it's about this guy named George Young. And who became the largest cocaine dealer in North America.

largest cocaine dealer in North America. And that was the George that I drove up into Hollywood. And George was basically responsible for, you know, everything that took place because of that ride to there. And that was George. Now, I'll just tell you one little thing. He was in jail forever, and I never saw him. And basically, I hadn't talked to him since 1968. So I tracked him down.

I find him one place. And he had gotten out of jail in 2015. And so I'm talking to him. He said, you know, I'm always remembering that you would always say, you know, George, you know, you're fucking around, you sell a little bag of grass, you gotta stop that shit, you're gonna get into trouble, and he said, you know, you're gonna get into trouble with this drug stuff, you know, even though it's nickel-dime stuff, he said, I always remember that, and then he said, you know, I got involved in the cocaine and all that stuff, and I'm the biggest cocaine dealer, and I'm arrested one day, I'm in handcuffs. I'm being led

into this into the police station. And I look up and there's a television is the one and it's the Academy Awards. And then it said, you know, and best director, Barry Levinson. And he said, I looked at that and I'm in handcuffs. And all I can remember is you saying, George, you know, you got to stop selling that kind of stuff. member is you saying, George, you know, you gotta stop selling that kind of stuff. Amazing. Alright,

right now I have to go to the bathroom so we're gonna play these commercials and then get back to the show. Too much info. Oh yeah. Gilbert and Frank, what's your game now? Can anybody play? Hey, Gil. Live from Nutmeg Post, we now return to Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal podcast. Amazing Colossal Podcast. Now, you said in an interview that years ago, you and your friends used to say that Gentile girls were punctual.

Yes. I never know where you're going to go, Gil. That's an interesting direction. All right. But here's the part of that, because we always said, you know, Jewish girls, it takes forever. You go over there, you know, you're going to go, you know, is Sheila ready? You know, come on in. She'll be down in a minute, you know, and blah, blah, blah, whatever. You meet the mother and the father.

You know, what does your father do? Oh, he's in the appliance business. Oh, where's the store? Blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. Does he know? So it's like a major ordeal. You go to see a Gentile girl's house. You ring the doorbell.

Boom. She's at the door. She's ready to go. And you're gone. And we thought, so we always said, you know, Gentile girls are very punctual. But the reality is, which didn't occur to us, is they were punctual because they didn't want us to come into the house. Because then they have to say, Dad, Mom, this is Barry Levinson. So our naive is that we thought that they were punctual as opposed to,

I've got to get out of the house as fast as I can. I mean, sometimes they were just literally on the steps waiting. You picked that up in your research, huh, Gil? Yes. That's good stuff. I re-watched Liberty Heights today, and there's that great scene where they see the sign on the fence, no dogs, Jews, or coloreds. And they're commenting about the sequence of the names.

Yeah, how do they come up with which one was the biggest nuisance? Right. At the pool. You know what I mean? And you wonder, like, you know. And I have to tell you one crazy thing to that. At one point, I said, you know, the title Liberty Heights, and this was a time in the business changing,

so trying to do a personal movie gets it gets harder and harder to do. So one day, out of frustration, I'm talking to the head of the studio, I said, why don't we call it, instead of Liberty Heights, call it Jews, Gentiles, and Color People. That'll be the title of the movie. So rather than saying, are you crazy, the question was, why does it have to be jews first well like i said we jump all over the place before we move into the movies quickly i just want to know too you're saying the improv led to something led to something what what came first

you guys were doing the improv you You were doing sketches in clubs. In class first. In class first. Yeah. Then clubs. Then clubs. And then was it the Tim Conway show first? None of that.

Well, Tim Conway was the first. The first thing we did, there was a show called Loman and Barclay. It was on 1130 to 1 o'clock in the morning. And there were four writers. There were four of us. Craig, myself, Rudy, and this guy named paul and it was 90 minutes of material and there were four of us i think john amos told us he was on that john amos was uh he was on the show as well yeah and so we had to come up with all this material and we would do stuff that would just be a disaster and then sometimes we hit on

some sketches that really worked, you know. And that was one year of that, constantly doing that type of material. In fact, I was just actually writing about that period. And it was a great learning process because we would do some sketches that literally not a smile from the audience, you know, just deadly, deadly. And then some things would, you know, work. We did a sketch one time that went out of control because it was a live show. And it was originally going to be, it was called The Lawyers and the Pigs. And now this shows you how, like, you know, nuts that you can get when you're doing something all the time.

We said, wouldn't it be funny, we'll wear, wear like suits and we'll carry little piglets under our arms. And we never addressed that we have piglets. We just have piglets. You know, we'll be like, Your Honor, may I, you know, approach the bench? You know, I mean, we'd have a pig and the judge would have a pig too. You know, the prosecution defense, everybody has a little piglet under our arm. We thought that was a funny idea for like two and a half minutes. So we run back. We change. We get into the thing. We come to the... And the prop guy got pigs.

I mean like 75, 80 pound pigs. And they're going, 10 seconds. They go, holy God, I can't even carry the pig. So I ended up having a rope around mine. I get them to the defense table. And we all have pigs pigs and the pigs go crazy. And I have mine with the rope around him and he's running on the defense table, but not going anywhere. There's clip, clop, clip, clop,

like that, et cetera. Craig's, he was trying to hold in his arms. had sort of crawled around his back and then started to pee and just kept peeing. Now, it was so the laughter was so loud. We could not hear one another at all. We had to wait for it. And but I remember looking around and you'd see somebody like fall out of their seat on the floor, convulsed in laughter, etc. The sketch was supposed to run two and a half minutes because it's a sight gag thing. It was 14 minutes because you couldn't get the audience

to stop laughing to get on with it. And the pigs were out of control. And I could just imagine somebody at home going, honey, come take a look at this. And so some things hit, some things worked, some things were disaster. but that was like the learning ground of starting to play around with uh it's a trial by fire having to create that much material constantly that led to the tim conway show that led to the tim conway show right

yeah and then marty feldman and then the carol burnett show yeah marty feldman was a great experience i mean a really great experience and larry Gelbart, who wrote a funny thing away at the forum, and he did the TV series, you know, MASH, and he was the producer. And it's when you meet somebody like that in the business, and they're so quick and so funny, it was like shocking. And you go, well, you know, I guess that's why he's the producer head writer. I mean, that guy, you know, and it was really amazing amazing and then it was odd that when we got to work with mel because mel and larry gelbart you know go back to the caesar you know days yeah he was an amazing guy

larry gelbart yeah what a guy to learn from incredible and what was mel bro Brooks like to work with? It was the best, you know, it was one of those great experiences because what we would do, we'd have breakfast, we would write, we went to lunch, then we would write, and, you know, he would tell stories and things or whatever, but he included you. So, for instance, not only just in the writing of it, but then ultimately in the writing of it, but then ultimately went in the casting of it. And then we were there when it was being shot. And because he was in the film, we would be watching on the monitors. And now you're looking at that. And then you talk to him about it. And you were there during the editing process.

So for three years, for two movies, that's what you did all the time. And then your brain starts to go, gee, I wonder if you do this. What happens if you did that? What happens, how would that work? And that was the beginning of thinking about it. And then Mel was the one, because I would tell him the stories about guys at the diner and the friends that I knew.

And Mel was the one that was saying, you know, you should write about that. And mentioned Fellini, you know, it was Yvonne Aloni as a piece about, you know, guys, et about, you know, guys, etc., you know, growing up in a sense. And so he had actually mentioned that. So he was incredible. I mean, and truly maybe the funniest person I've ever, you know, come upon. And when he would get frustrated by something, then he was even funnier. I mean, literally fall down on the ground laughing over certain things. He was generous.

He let you into the process. Completely. Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, in High Anxiety, you were the bellboy. Yes. Oh, Dennis. Who read the newspaper. Yeah, that was.

That's a Jack Benny reference. Yeah, that was so funny. Yeah, Jack Riley. Jack Riley. Hits the bell and goes, oh, Dennis. Jack Benny reference. Yeah, that was so funny. Yeah, Jack Riley. Jack Riley. Hits the bell and goes, oh, Dennis. Oh, Dennis. Yeah. Which I didn't get in 1976.

And I had that newspaper going, here, here, here. Stabbing him in the shower scene like Psycho. You were actually trying to imitate the strings, the Bernard Herrmann. Yeah. I was making fun of one day Bernard Herman's music that had that in the stabbing. And I was going, here, here, here, here. And Mel said, you got to do that. You've got to do that. We had a real high voice. And I have to tell you one thing.

I was in a store one time. This has got to do that. We're in a real high voice, you know. And I have to tell you one thing. I was in a store one time. This has got to be like 10 years after the movie. And I'm in the store and there's this guy looking at me. And I'm moving around. The guy's like looking at me. And I'm thinking, I don't know, is this guy sort of, I don't know what's going on. I'm thinking like maybe some killer or something, you know. He's just looking at me and I'm moving.

And he's kind of like moving. And then eventually he walked over and he said, were you Dennis the bellhop? Of all the things. Right, that's it. That's what he remembers me from. I said, yes, yes. And there were a lot of people in high anxiety that seemed like they were probably just friends. I mean, known friends of Mel Brooks, like yes charlie callous yeah gloria leachman

yeah well harvey you'd worked with before yeah bernette yeah they were incredible i mean there are those little and we did those sort of um camera jokes you know the cameras moving in on you know how it is the french doors people are inside talking and the camera keeps moving in on you know how it is the french doors people are inside talking and the camera keeps moving in and moves in and then hits the the glass of the door and breaks it and then you can hear like you know back up back up you know and then the camera's backing up and you know so we were doing some of these visual you know jokes as well so we had that in there it was a great experience do you remember a specific contribution you made to a gag you contributed to either film? I don't.

I never remember what it is. Really? Literally. You know, and I think it's at the best when you don't know. Some things evolve, you know. And, you know, I remember about, you know, the Burn on Herman thing, you know, because of that specifically. But I can't remember much of it mel was like mel could say things in a in a sense that most people can't get away with you know it's part of his like

i remember once we were in the uh they had the executive dining room and uh marvin davis had bought the studio now marvin davis that i was a huge, huge man, huge, just gigantic. And when he came in, everybody got quiet and he sat down, you know, and after a few minutes, everybody started talking again. And then at some point he stood up to leave and everything. Everybody got quiet and he went out. And soon as the doors slammed, Mel yelled out, did you ever see such a fat man in your whole life? he could say those things and just just break everybody up and get away with oh yeah and get away with there's something about his his his personality etc that he can he can do that stuff and who wrote the song high anxiety mel mel yeah you know and And I'll never forget, he was so he wanted

when the Academy Award nominations came out for High Anxiety, he wasn't bothered and he didn't get nominated for screenplay or any of those things. He was so angry that the song didn't get nominated. He said, I just wanted

to go on the Academy Awards with a tuxedo and sing you know ziety you know and his sort of sinatra like you know take on it he was so but he was genuinely angry you know like we get what his face gets tight like that and everything he wanted so much to sing the theme from high anxiety well norman Norman Steinberg told us he kind of takes himself seriously as a musician, that he knows music. He does know music. Yeah, yeah. I don't think he can play it.

No, but he has an ear. I heard when he's considering people for his movies, he wants to hear them sing first. Because he believes in music. In the rhythms of music? Yeah. I don't think I remember that taking place, but it makes sense. Why don't you tell Barry that you auditioned for Mel Brooks and what happened?

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I once auditioned for not one of his better movies, Life Stinks. And so I auditioned, and people were going, oh, you know, we think you'd be perfect, all the usual things. Everyone's talking about you. We think you're perfect.

And I wound up losing out the part. And I said, well, who are they replacing me with? And they said Billy Barty. If you don't know who Billy Barty is, Google it immediately. He was a midget, basically. He was a famous midget. So you lost because you were too tall

yeah you could justify it by saying that yeah I was up for the role I didn't get I was too tall and I remember two jokes in particular on high anxiety just because they're so stupid and you laugh out loud

one of them is like this one of the top psychiatrists is howard morris and um he starts talking and mel interrupts him and he goes doctor is this really nessa and he goes yes it's nessa it's very nessa professor little old, yes. That was his name. Little Old Man. The other one was Charlie Callis thought he was a caucus fan. Right. Yes, right.

And then they find out that, oh, what's her name, the actress? Oh, God. Madeline Kahn. Madeline Kahn. That's her father. Yeah. And he says to him,

so you're the cuckoo's daughter? The stuff you hold on to amazes me. So Mel gave you the encouragement to take a shot with Diner. Yes, yeah. He encouraged you because you were telling the stories about the guys. I would talk about it. And he says, you should write a movie about that. I would talk about it.

And he'd write a movie about that. And I couldn't figure out how to do it until eventually the idea that it would be the last five days of 1959, ending with a wedding on New Year's Eve. And then once I hit that, then I was able to write it. But he would talk to me. He'd mention it periodically. So he really was influential in so many ways. And you banged diner in what do i have this right three weeks just writing it yeah yeah well i always write fast anyway i i i wish i write in a sense that i believe there is someone else writing the same thing somewhere else that's interesting and i have to write faster than that person. That's interesting.

Even something as personal as that, which was unlikely that somebody else was writing that. But you put that in your head. I've got to go faster. It's catching up. I also find it interesting that sometimes you write with a song in your head. I read that when you were writing Tin Man, you had Sweet Lorraine in your head, which I find interesting.

I play a song sort of like a little bizarre crazy you know in the old days you know you have to put the record on and then play the song and then put the go back to it now you can just hit repeat you know with a digital so sometimes i'll look and see how many times they play it and i might say like 175 times that same piece of music over and over and over and over again somehow i lock into it it whatever reason it motivates me now also on this podcast and then my day-to-day life i'm always pointing out what famous person's a jew really in fact while in the lobby somebody came up to me and told me that one of the singers in T-Rex is a Jew.

Mark Bolan? Yes. So he wanted me to know that. Did you know that? Okay. And you said that's like, I the 50s, you know, Eddie Fisher got divorced from Debbie Reynolds, you know, and she would just go, you know, what he didn't do with his life.

Same thing with Tony Curtis when he got divorced. Oh, my God, what he didn't do with his life and there would always be these people that somehow and they were you know they were Jewish I didn't even know they were Jewish you know I didn't know Tony Curtis was Jewish you know I knew Eddie Fisher because it sounded Jewish but you know Tony Curtis doesn't sound Jewish and I said that one day and she went, Verde Schwartz. She yelled at me like I should know this. It's like, what kind of Jewish person are you?

Don't know. Verde Schwartz. You know, she had to tell me. And what was Harvey Korman like in real life? He was, you know, he could be so outgoing, et cetera etc i don't remember him that way in person like when you know when carol burnett when he would do these incredibly you know extravagant characters and he can really pull it off but in real life he always seemed to be you know sort of somewhat quiet that was my you know interpretation was bern Bernie Coppell told us that he did Hamlet. Wasn't it, Gil?

Oh, yeah. He did Shakespeare. He did a convincing. Yeah, no, he was, you know, he was a good actor. He was great with Carol. You know, he was terrific at setting her up and all of that. I mean, he was, you know, we were talking about straight men. Yeah.

And how important that is. And he was perfect for Carol. And he and Conway were friends. Yes, they were. And they were great together. We used to write sketches when we were doing the Burnett Show. We wrote a lot of the little old man that Tim Conway would play. And I remember one sketch where Harvey gets into the cab and he says, you know, to the airport, you know, and make it snappy.

And then there's like a long pause. And then, you know, Tim Conway is the little old man, you know, turned after like 15 seconds ago, where to? after like 15 seconds ago, where to? You know, and right away, because it's longer than that, you know, Harvey's trying to hold it in. And then he said the airport. And then Tim gets out the old Thomas guide and goes, airport. Hey, I just hey, I. I said, just drive, and I'll tell you where they go.

I mean, they were priceless together. When you watch Blazing Saddles, I mean, there's so many good things about it, but he's as good as anything in the movie. He's just stellar. He's perfect. Yeah. Brilliant. So talk about Diner a little bit.

Tell us, I found this interesting. For one thing, Paul Reiser did not actually come with the intent of auditioning. I know the comic who they had in. Really? Yes. That's good trivia. Who was the comic? I can't remember now. Oh, he died, so that makes it okay for me to mention him.

Perfect. There was this, He never got famous. He was just like around Catch and the Improv. Michael Hampton Kane. Is that who it was? He was up to audition. And he ran into

Paul Reiser along the way. They were friends. And Reiser, he said to Reiser, he goes, I've got to do this audition. Why don't you come with me? We'll have lunch afterwards. Right. Something like that.

Yeah. And then I think they saw the two of them kidding with each other back and forth. Was it Ellen Chenoweth who heard him? Ellen Chenoweth heard him, Paul. Yeah. And came in and said, you know, there's a guy out there. You know, he's not supposed to, you know, I didn't bring him in, but he's really interesting. You ought to meet him. And I met him and we talked and I hired him.

He actually never really read anything. I just hired him. I liked the way he talked. And I had a lot of stuff that I was thinking about using that I didn't want to put in the script. Because I knew enough that a lot of the studio people reading certain things would go, I don't know what the hell that is. And so I had him. And then I would literally talk to him about stuff. And I would hand him some things.

And he had this way of talking. He had a rhythm to it. He had a sound. And I was able to move them through the film that way. It's interesting, too, the reactions when you started showing people the screenplay. Was it your agent that said, I don't know what this is? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, everything about Diner, I gave it to my agent who called and said, I don't know what this is. What is this? I said, what do you mean? It's about people growing up, young guys. He said, yeah, but I don't understand. What is this? I said, what do you mean? It's about people growing up, young guys. So yeah, but I don't understand what is this? There's nothing here. And I explained it to him. This was Michael Lovitz. And I explained it. And the good thing about him is, I'm going to cancel my lunch. I want to read this again. And he called me after lunch. He said, you know something? I feel like an idiot. Now I see what you're talking about. Because somehow they didn't get it. But then,

of course, even when I did the film and I showed it to the studio executive and I met him and he said, well, you got a lot to learn about editing. And I said, yeah, well, like example, he said, you know, the guy asked for about if you're going to eat the roast beef sandwich, you know, and he says something, you know, cut, you know, cut, just get on with the story. Don't have them keep talking about the roast beef. They're not going to get on with the story. I said, but that is the story. I said, that in a sense explains a relationship as opposed to talking about a relationship. In other words, because people who have a close relationship don't say, how long have we known each other? We don't do that.

We don't talk that way. We talk sideways. We're always talking sideways. We're never on the point. We seldom do it. We're always never wanting to quite respond the way it is and so therefore that's the way the piece is built and i didn't convince them because they didn't like it and didn't want it released and actually the movie was never going to be seen and it's only by chance

that it got out you thought your movie career was over pretty much that was about it yeah you know mel had a great a great example about you know when you go see your film uh first time with a you know an audience you have a cut of it he says like you've got a barometer and you're watching the audience reaction and you're going like good good i'm out of the business good good i'm out of the business and love that and so that's the way i felt was like oh they don't like it at all it's like you know they thought it was literally i might as well have done a foreign film because at one point i said you know it's not that they're subtitles this is the people talking because they didn't

want to show it here they didn't want it and then eventually it came you know to new york and uh and then broke the house record. And then they still didn't believe it. So Diner never played nationwide at any one time. It only went from city to city to city and played for one year. Amazing. Was it Ellen Barkin? There was some actress the script was sent to. Ellen Barkin.

Yeah. Ellen Barkin. Yeah. Ellen Barkin, because she was going with an actor at that time, and he comes in, he's doing something, and he sees this script, and I think she was out or was doing something or whatever, so he's looking at the script, and he reads it, and he said, I see the script in the trash here, and she says, oh, it's terrible. It's no good. And he said, Ellen, you really should read this thing because I think it's really good. And then she read it and she went, oh, and that happened. So whatever it is about it back then,

a lot of people didn't get what was on the page. You know, because you're talking about what's on the flip side of the record is about the relationship and how do we relate to one another and all of that stuff rather than talking about that. And so that's the way I always thought dialogue should be to understand character and behavior. That to me. You know, the one thing is sometimes you, you know, someone will say, well, who would have been an influence

in terms of writing? And it only occurred to me, I don't know, maybe a dozen years ago, is that when I was a kid and I saw Marty on television, and it was still before it went to being a film, and in it, there's a little scene where the guy said, what do you want to do tonight, Marty? And he said, I don't know, Angie, what do you want to do? I thought that was maybe the greatest thing I'd ever heard.

And as a kid, I'd walk around going, what do you want to do tonight, Marty? I don't know. What do you want to do, Angie? And I would just say that all the time. And it stayed in my head. And then when I think about, finally, to Diner, the whole movie is, what do you want to do tonight, Angie? It is the most common, normal pieces of dialogue that ultimately are the most influential in terms of how we behave, how we act and interact with one another. And the film winds up informing and inspiring future generations of writers. Obviously, you saw the piece in Vanity Fair where they said that Seinfeld and Pulp Fiction and Stephen Merchant and Judd Apatow even said that they have Diner running in their heads

when they write those scenes. Yeah, no, I was very flattered. I mean, I met Judd, and he was talking about that. To me, it was to find a way to bury plot elements and not celebrate the plot, is to celebrate the characters, the relationships, and obviously you've got to have some kind of plot. You've got to have something that can't just be a drift, but to try to hide it on first view. Well, it's funny because you said the line

how well, how long have we known each other as far, and that's one of those lines when you hear that this is to tell the audience. It's just like, hey, you and me, we've been friends for years. Which we don't do. So the question is, how do we how do we how do we tell the audience that that there's all these rituals that go on without without explaining?

And so that is buried in the movie and in the behavior. I'm going to finish that? Yeah, I'm going to finish it. I paid for it, I'm not going to give it to you. If you're not going to finish it, I would eat it, but if you're going to eat it, you're going to... What do you want? Say the words. No, you're going to eat it if you eat it, that's alright. Say the words, I want the roast beef sandwich.

Say the words and I'll give you a piece. Would you guys cut this out? I mean, every time. Well, if he doesn't talk, he just... Well, you know what he means, right? Yeah, I know what he means, but he beats her out of the bush. He beats her out of the bush. If he'd say the words, I'd give him a piece. If I wanted it, wouldn't I ask you?

Then ask. You know you want... Just let it go. You know he wants it. That's annoying. I'm annoying. I'm annoying. I'm trying to eat a meal by myself.

If you want to give him the sandwich, give him the sandwich. If you don't want to give him the sandwich, don't... I don't want to give him the... Well, then just eat the sandwich and shut up. Well, look at his eyes. I ask one simple question, you get it? You know what your problem is? You don't chew your food.

That's why you get so irritable. It lumps you up like roast beef in your heart. It just stays there. And you said, and once again, this before Seinfeld, you said that diners signified nothing. Um, I don't know. Did I say that? Yeah. I may have because it's what I meant by it is it's simple, but it's about everything. And it's on face value. It's about nothing.

Because in it, there are these relationships of which each person has a dilemma about the marriage and making this transition and the problems with one being married and not being able to quite relate to her and she to him in terms of what's important in terms of that interaction. So each one has a dilemma to it, but you're never talking about the dilemma. I've always seen it as a movie about men's inability, ongoing inability to communicate with women and to connect. Completely, yes. Yes, because we can't ever really say what we want to say.

So things have a tendency to go sideways. Who was it that saw the football quiz and said that would never happen? And you had to. It was a few people did. But my cousin, Eddie, who did give his wife a football test. But here's the best part of it, because he was as stubborn a person as you could ever meet. And and so he would do things like, you know, you couldn't get out of the car if Frank Sinatra's song was on. Which is in Liberty Heights.

Which is in Liberty Heights because he would be offensive to Frank. That's great. That's great. I said, Frank's not in the car. It doesn't matter. You don't leave until Sinatra finishes the song. You know what I mean? But he did say, he said, you know, Barry, I saw Diner five times and I realized it was a mistake, you know, to give my wife the football test. I said, really?

He said, yeah, you know, because two weeks after marriage, she can't remember a fucking answer. It was a waste of time. That's what he learned. You know, Gil, somebody actually wrote into the show to say they love the commercials. So this is for you. Hey, fans of John Gabris, his premium podcast, The Layman, is back for its second season on Stitcher Premium. John loves science, as you guys know, but also finds it pretty hard to grasp. What do you think, Gil?

I wasn't paying attention. I don't know. When you talk, I kind of zone out. You zone out, do you? Yeah. Well, in The Layman, John goes to the experts. He goes to doctors exploring the frontiers of the mind, outer space, and beyond, and he asks them to break it down in terms we can all understand, even you. Yeah.

Because normally, if it's not about Burgess Meredith, you have no interest whatsoever. Yeah, or Lionel Atwill Jr. Or Lionel Atwill. Hear John Gabry's chat with molecular scientists, stem cell researchers, and many more in five whole new episodes of The Layman. To learn more about The Layman and hear episode one, go to stitcherpremium.com slash layman.

I wouldn't be able to pronounce molecular. You can't even pronounce layman. Gilbert. Gold Gilbert. He's the man, the man with the mightiest touch. The mightiest touch. Just kidding. It's all Frank. Now back to the show.

Now, what are some, because, I mean, that hits upon when we were talking before about, like, telling the audience. What are some of the things as a director that annoy you that you see in movies? Oh, gee. Well, there's, well, it depends. I mean, because sometimes it comes from different places. Sometimes the music tells you it's going to be important. Oh, yes. You know what I to be important. Oh, yes. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Dude, dude, dude. Oh, wait a minute. Something's about to happen here. So that bothers me. Explaining when you know they're explaining to tell you what's going on, you know, is certainly one. But I can't think of a number of them offhand,

but there are those things where it's telegraphed in ways. And when it's done well in some of these movies, it's priceless. It's just priceless. Tell us how Tin Men came about. You called it the other side of the diner. Yeah, because when you have an assistant director, and we're getting it straight, and so we had some guys, older guys to the right. And I said, no, no, no.

When you come in the diner, the younger guys are to the right and the tin men are to the left. And he said, well, what is that? I said, the tin men. That's where the tin men, the guys who sell aluminum siding, they're on the left. And that was sort of like the way it was sort of laid out. And, of course, no female could come in, period. You know, I mean, that was just sort of, I didn't actually even cover that in Diner. But that's how you think about how crazy, you know, things were, that if you had a date, you went, you took her to Mandel's, which was across the street from

the diner. You'd have a bite to eat before going home. Then you'd drop her off. Then you would go to the diner on the other side of the street. And so no female was allowed in there, except during the day. Then it was sort of like a family thing. But once night came, it was just a guy's world. So you just overheard these guys? You familiarize yourselves with some of the scams over the years?

Oh, yeah, no, the scams were, I couldn't even get enough. I couldn't put some in because I was afraid people might not believe it. But, you know, those guys would sell kitchen cabinet things and all this kind of hustle. And one point you were saying, now, look, you can, a kitchen cabinet, this is terrific, whatever. And then the point, the woman's pointing, well, what about this one here? Well, that's a much cheaper one. You don't want to go that way.

But, you know, this one here, it's a little more expensive, but it's better. So, but what about this one? Oh, well, look, if you want to go, you know, with the cheaper one, okay, you know. But let me ask you, what size hat do you wear? And he says, well, why? He said, well, we got to get you like a hard hat. Well, why do I need that? Well, you can't guarantee that kitchen cabinet is not going to fall off the wall.

And they would do things where they would make a deal and they would quickly because once you start at work on it they can't get out of the deal you know i mean so what they would literally do is sometimes they would they would make the deal with the person sign the paper go around and then take the paint and write right on the of the building, start here and paint it on the side of the house, which means the job has already begun, and therefore the person can't renege on that. And those kinds of hustlers went on, and they were all slick-looking,

and they all drove Cadillacs, and they would all go to the track, and they were conning people all the time. I assume you knew Rodney Dangerfield was somebody who was involved. Yes, he was a tin man. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they were... And reportedly investigated and changed his name to Rodney Dangerfield to...

To hide? Well, we heard Cliff Nesterhoff is a writer, was on our show, and according to him, what was it, the Jack Roy, that there was something published in the newspaper? There was something really sleazy that he was involved in and he was he was being pursued or at least he thought a name change would leave that would help leave that yeah would help leave that we took a real inconspicuous name like it's good trivia anyway you know it's i think it's a testament to the writing of that film too

and my wife watched it. We watched it again the other night. That even though these guys are conning people, you feel sorry for them when it comes to an end. The scene where Dreyfus and Danny DeVito have to turn in their licenses. You actually have compassion. Yeah. For this way of life that's dying. That particular hustle was over.

Yeah. And then, of course course the hustles in america got worse right you got that banking crisis which billions of dollars you know these guys were like nickel and dime kind of you know hustlers uh or the the madoff thing that i just did with you know deniro counting people out of like you you know, $60 billion. So the con artist exists. Of course. The Tin Man was like the low end of the totem pole. And, you know, they went from that,

and they went into other types of things that, you know, once you couldn't do that with aluminum siding, then you went on to, you know, other ways of hustle. And there were whole sections of dialogue in Tin Man that was, it sounded like comedy routines. It didn't sound like part of the dialogue. I was going to ask you about Jackie Gale specifically. He sounded like he was just doing bits.

Oddly enough, actually, that was, as I remember, the two things you might point to was actually written when he was at the salad bar about all these things come from the earth. Right, right. Where he finds religion. When he finds religion, that here this came from the earth and whatever it may be.

And the thing about Bonanza. Right. That it's not an actual depiction of the West. If you guys haven't seen Tin Man, and you've got to see this movie, but specifically for Jackie Gale's riffs on Bonanza. Jackie Gale is so funny, because he does that. He does it so well, because he's talking about Bonanza, and he says, you know, it's three guys.

It's a father and two sons. You know, no one ever says, you know, I saw this girl, you know, that the greatest, you know, like, you know, I can't remember the dialogue. But he was basically saying, you know, I had like a heart on, et cetera. Oh, yeah, the greatest ass I've ever seen in my life. The greatest ass I've ever seen. There was no reference to sex about anything. These are three men. A 50-year-old dad and three 47-year-old sons.

That's right. Each one had a... He was married, she had a baby, and she died. Right. I think which is actually part of the way the show works. Yeah, it was a conceit of the show. They had three separate wives. Right.

And I've heard mixed stories. Dustin Hoffman is one of those people you always hear of. You'll hear these stories of he's such an intense actor and it could be difficult. But you worked with him a number of times. Yeah. Well, I think the key to it is, and one of the best things, because it goes all the way back to studying for a few years,

and I was there literally almost all the time. And one of the best things, so when Dustin, when we first met, which was on Rayman, he said, you know, he had this problem. And I'll just say two things. Because he said, you know, it says here when he gets agitated, he has this pitching motion he's got to go through. He says, it takes too long to do this pitching motion. I said, well, let me see. So he was showing me. I went, yeah, that's not going to work. He said, I don't know how to do that. And so I called him later on. I said, listen,

when you get agitated, why don't you do who's on first? And he said, well, what do you mean? He said, you know, the Abbott and Costello routine. He said, well, who's going to be the other guy? I said, you do both. And it's not as a comedy thing. You do it. And I said, you know, you do who's on first, the first baseman. That's what I'm saying, the first baseman. Who's on first, the first baseman. And you do it like a mantra. and so you do it that way because you wouldn't autistic doesn't necessarily understand the the humor of the piece it is the rhythm of it that he was responding to so when you're agitated we'll do that he went oh okay that way that works and uh so we got past it so he did he did see an issue in what he originally had to do. And then when we started to shoot, he's such a

character. I mean, I really like him, but we started to shoot the scene in a coffee shop. And I said, after one take, I said, Dustin, you know, when you're doing Raymond, he just seems, you know, depressed, you know, it's too depressed. I said, you know, autistic people, depressed. You know, it's too depressed. I said, you know, autistic people, they're busy. You know, they're looking, you know, how many lights, they're, you know, they're just looking around, they're calculating, they're busy. And he said, oh, okay. So now we do another take. And so he's looking and looking. And now Tom is saying, you know, Ray, do you want to do so-and-so? And Dustin is looking. Ray, do you want to do so-and-so? And then he doesn't ever respond to them. So I go, cut.

Dustin, Tom's talking to you. He said, well, you know, I didn't actually hear him. I got so involved in the lights that I didn't see him. I said, well, you have to be able to hear him, or we're not going to have any dialogue in the movie. You know what I mean? And he said, well, how do I do that? I'm so involved. If I'm busy, I'm busy. You know, I can't. And I said, well, why can't you just do, and if you ever see the movie, he'll go, yeah.

Yeah. You want to so-and-so? Yeah. And he's only doing that is just to keep, it's like you're tethered to something, but you're not paying attention. You know, so you're looking, you know, you're ready, you want to go, so and so, yeah. You want to get on the plane and we go, yeah. And then when he realizes what it is, then he may not want to do it. Like at the airport, he doesn't know until he sees a plane, then he's not going to go. So he can be busy and yeah, if you notice in the film, it's all through it. Radio, yeah. And that allows him to be connected to, but not necessarily really paying attention.

It's a little like my conversations with you, Gil. Yeah. So it was a device device and and and he was right the question is that you find a way for the actor to be comfortable right and that in a sense helps the character for the piece does your acting background come into play well that's what i think from just in the in the acting school because i did so many improv things and whatever and trying to understand the behavior that in anything you're in, you've got to connect in a way or you don't know you're lost. And so that's where Dustin,

you know, if you're not really understanding what the problem is, and if you can understand it, then you can move past it and he can be brilliant that way. Another person you lost a role to, Dustin Hoffman. Yes. Yeah. I was up for the role as Mumbles and Dick Tracy.

Oh, really, Dick Tracy? Yeah. And I even met, I even auditioned with Warren Beatty. Really? And he read the Dick Tracy part. I did Mumbles. And they were all talking, he especially, anything you want to do with Tracy part, I did Mumbles, and they were all talking, he especially, anything you want to do with

this part, it's yours. When we were writing this screenplay, we said Gilbert Gottfried is the only one who can do this. And so I was all set to be like the next, you know,

Faye Dunaway working with Warren Beatty. Perfect. And then so, and I'm really looking forward to it because I know it's going to be an old star big thing. And then my, I say to my agent,

so when are they going to start working on it? And he goes, oh, they're not using you. And I said, they're not? After all that? And I said, who are they using? And he said, Dustin Hoffman. So I figure, like, what was it, like 3 o'clock in the morning, it was still in G. Gottfried or Dustin Hoffman.

Because I've said it before, the only time my name and Dustin Hoffman's name can be used in the same sentence is I've seen Gilbert Gottfried's acting and he's no Dustin Hoffman. Oh, my. Barry knows Warren Beattyty maybe he'll get to the bottom oh yeah i gotta find out what happened there ask him we're we're gonna move to q a in a minute but i but i

have to ask you for just for personal reasons i have to ask you about good morning vietnam which is a movie that my wife and i adore and and there's so much to love about it. Reading an interview with you, and you were talking about, and it was touching, you were talking about how Robin worked hard to get to know the Asian actors, the bit players. And I think the affection comes

across on screen, especially like the mock softball game, the makeshift softball game. Well, the two things to it is, one is that Robin has this immense curiosity. You know, because he needs to understand and, you know, connect. So he's always, you know, curious about everything. And he was very helpful in a sense. We were going to do these scenes.

I don't know if you saw the movie, but there are these scenes that take place in the classroom. Of course. And when we started to do one of the early takes of it, and then the Vietnamese have to ask questions, and it didn't seem real to me. It just didn't seem real. It seemed sort of fake because they can't quite say the lines the way they're written and everything. they're written and everything. And so, and then during a break, Robin was talking outside with the, you know, the people that are in the classroom, these Vietnamese, and they're talking and then they're laughing, you know, and struggling, you know, to explain. And then Robin would get in

there and they were, and I went, look, look how great that is. And so when we went back in, I said, look, Robin, what I'm going to do is I'll let you, you know, the scene. I'll let you sort of run with it. I'm not going to slate it so they don't know we're actually filming. And then we'll get to the parts that we need for it. But we'll make it sort of very loose. And you can go and ask them other things and whatever. And we'll put it together that way. So I never, we did hand signals.

So when he would start to talk, and I thought it was getting interesting, then I would indicate, and then they would roll, and sound would go, and then out of that is how those classroom scenes developed. And then for the softball game at the end, I thought, well, you know what I'll do? I'm not going to explain to the Vietnamese how to play the game. Yeah, it's clear they don't know how.

I'm not going to explain. And we had two MPs, and I said, look, if they run to the wrong base, so they go to third base instead of first base, then you'll direct them as to what to do. And let's just let it go and see what happens. And so that thing that was taking place and all of that, and their laughing and the confusion, was literally they were confused and they were having fun. And that's the way we did it.

And Robin was key because he makes those connections in a way that there's this comfort level and they were all just basically enjoying and we were able to get the elements we needed. Yeah, the sweetness in the relationship, I think, comes across. Yeah. And he was a wonderful guy. He was a great guy. Tell us one thing. Jen, we'll jump to the questions. Tell us one thing about the great Bruno Kirby, too,

who doesn't have a lot of scenes in the movie, but steals everything he's in. Bruno was fabulous, and we became friends. So when he had to do the scene where he's going to go on the air. It's brilliant. And he's going to do this thing. He said, listen, I have this idea. And I said, I tell you what, Bruno, don't tell me. I don't even want to know what it is. Just go and do it and we'll just shoot. See what you've come up with. And he said, all right. And so he came up with that

whole thing. Frenchie. Frenchie. And he said, all right. And so he came up with that whole thing. Frenchie. Frenchie. And he's talking to him like a ventriloquist. Oh, Frenchie. It was his craziest thing. And that was all Bruno, all made up. It is brilliant.

And we should literally just let Bruno have his moment doing that. And it was fun. When you say, look, go see what's going to happen. Let's just try it. In my heart, I know I'm funny. Yeah. It's a great line.

Former VP Richard Nixon will arrive here this week. Drivers, I'm assigned you to cover the PC. He likes to say PC instead of press conference. And if you do, and if you do, and if you do happen to speak with him, please be polite and to the point at all times. Affirmative sir. Affirmative sir. Good. Okay. The former VP will be here on Friday. I expect every minute of the VP's PC to be taped and broadcast within 12 hours of his arrival. Something funny, Garlick?

Perhaps you'd like to share it with the rest of us. No, sir. The former vice president is a delight, sir. Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? Because if it leaks to the VC, you can end up an MIA and then we'd all be put on KP. I would like to leave the room now.

Oh, yes, sir. And you did the movie Toys with Robin Williams. Yes. And you did the movie Toys with Robin Williams. Yes. And in that, I mean, the movie didn't do well. No. It's ahead of its time, really. It got vilified, actually, at the time. It was completely misunderstood.

Tell us about the toy planes in Toys. The toy planes? Well, I mean, what I thought, which obviously didn't come across, is that there is going to be this point in time with, you know, with computers and things that we're going to end up with these, you know, electronic, you know, this military. So the planes will be without pilots, which is now what we have with the drones. And we would end up with that in the miniature sizes where they would have that and all the video things. And it's all about hand-eye coordination and this whole step that we're taking in terms of military

and how it's influential in so many ways to it. So I thought it was this, I thought the idea of doing a black comedy that doesn't look like it's dark, but it looks like it's all primary colors, but it's extremely dangerous in terms of the idea, how you can pervert the idea of toys and begin to go into another dimension, of which it was like attacked, etc. for a long time. There's an article, I know, somewhere in The Guardian or somewhere, there's an article, a lengthy article about how the film is ahead of its time and will

grow in appreciation over the years, which I think is true. Yeah, but there are those things you do and it's like, whoa, gee, they got so mad. Great cast too Gilbert and I appreciate the fact that Art Metrano shows up Oh yes He used to come on that

Lumen and Barkley show, that's where he started that Oh yeah Who remembers Art Metrano? Oh, bless your hearts For those who don't know, he would do like this phony magic thing where it never actually had anything he was holding.

He would like, you know, da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da. A handkerchief that there was nothing behind it. You want to take some questions, Gil, for these? Oh, of course. For Mr. Levinson here? We'll? Moving along. Yep, they got a mic coming to you.

Hi, Barry. I just wanted to ask you about what I feel is one of your underappreciated films, The Bay. I'm a big horror fan. Oh, The Bay. The Bay. Yeah. I've only seen it once because it scared me the first time. I was wondering if you were maybe what compelled you to take that

project and would you ever return to horror thrillers if the right script came along? Well, you know, I thought it was an interest, you know, it's based on like probably 90% of the movie in terms of the science of it is in fact correct. You know, the dumping of steroids into the Chesapeake Bay, you know, from the chicken farms and all of that, and everything that's happening in terms of the bay, et cetera, is all factual information. And I thought, well, we'll take it a step further into this nightmare type of a piece. And we did it for a million six, you know, and we handed out cameras to people on the streets and then they would shoot things etc and collect the cameras and it's all you know put together the irony and

this is where the business why it gets so crazy is that the distributors say well it's not really a horror film and i said well i mean it has scary things he said yes but it only has six real scares and it is supposed to have seven. And I said, well, yeah, no. So it doesn't. So we went to Toronto where they have Midnight Madness, which is a week of horror films. You know, it starts at midnight to two, three in the morning. You know, I mean, like these people with the horror films, we went right into that particular audience. And we were the runner up is audience favorite. And the studio said, Yeah, but it's not a horror film. So it had a limited release, but at a million and a half, you know, they're not gonna lose any money on it. But,

but in it, the factual information, there's a quite a few things that are actually you know correct uh but then we take that extra step i love doing it i love doing i love playing around with you know different forms and not necessarily being married to this is what i do specifically i can jump around so that was fun and i'm glad you enjoyed it you're a monster fan i like i know i always we were talking about it we were talking about i love the old monster films It was fun. I'm glad you enjoyed it. You're a monster fan. I like, I always love. We were talking about it backstage. We were talking about it. I love the old monster films, you know what I mean?

Because I loved, and as a kid you would go, you know, like the one is that we'd had that discussion afterwards, like the mummy I was telling Gilbert. I said, you know, a mummy could never catch me. You know what I mean? I can outrun any mummy. No mummy is going to catch me. You know, I mean, I can outrun any mummy. No mummy is going to catch me. I can, you know, I got shoes on, rubber soles.

They're never going to catch me. And then a friend said, you know, yeah, but mummies never have to sleep. And then I was like, oh, God, when I go to bed, the mummy might come. Then I got scared. But we would come up with those things like, why does Frankenstein have to have such heavy shoes? You know what I mean? Because you remember they were like big things. So you can imagine like Frankenstein in some sneakers, you know, then you'd really be scared because he would move much faster. Basically, all of those creatures and all

those things, they were all slow moving. That was part of it's like a textbook it said all those creatures zombies as well all have to move slow they don't move quick and so we loved i loved all those things you know don't open the door don't open the door you know gilbert used to have a bit in his act used to have a bit about the lever that blows up the castle. Yeah. It was like, let me go to the lever to blow up the castle. And it's like, oh, you have a lever to blow up the castle? Yeah. The guy who built the castle said, do you want me to throw in a lever to blow it up?

I could throw it in for a cheap price. And you'll just pull on it, and it'll blow your castle up. But just be sure, you gotta remember never to throw a coat on it. Let's take a couple more questions.

I love that. The lever. Anybody else, any other questions? This gentleman in the back with the white shirt. That's hysterical. Reminded me of that. You've told a lot of great stories over the years. What's the best story you've ever told? What's the best story you ever told?

The best story I ever told? You mean in life or in a movie or? It could be anything gosh uh uh I'll tell you one um I could tell you two uh pick a pick the best one pick a dozen I don't I I don't know I mean I thought the George story was a pretty amazing story for craziness, you know, and 100% true. So I'd have to rank that as, to me, the top story in terms of that deals everything with, you know, career, madness, insanity, and friendship all mixed into one. So I'm sticking by that it's and it kicked your career off in the strangest way because it absolutely did yeah yeah now if i don't go to that acting school with george um none of the things that took place afterwards

would have happened because that was the defining i didn't know it at the time, but that one step was, you know, it's like you never know in life. You suddenly go through a door into some room and then everything will ultimately be changed. And you don't realize it at the time, but down the step by step by step, everything will go in another direction. Of all the guests I researched, it was the most fascinating show business origin. No, it's bizarre, you know. I mean, because it's funny, you know, my father, who never understood what I was doing in this business, you know, and that's the upbringing that I came from,

is that he didn't understand anything about film or anything about it. I remember, here's the way he would relate to it. You know, he said, so how are you doing? I said, well, I'm writing, you know, but I haven't sold anything. He said, well's the way he would relate to it. You know, he says, so how you doing? I said, well, I'm writing, you know, but I haven't sold anything. He said, well, at least you got inventory. So he was just a businessman, you know, and I said, you know, he's, he's, he would say, why don't you write, you know, one of those, you know, Rocky movies? He would say, you know, why don't you write, you know, one of those, you know, Rocky movies? Yeah, why don't you write one of those Rocky movies?

Now, since we're running late, do you have anything you want to plug and tell the audience about? And at HBO, I think it's May 20th, is The Wizard of Lies, which is a film I did for HBO. It's with Bob De Niro and Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's about the Bernie Madoff scandal that deals with that whole period of his life and all the things that happened. So that's upcoming. There's a rumor that you're going to do a film with Billy Crystal. Is that just trade talk? We're talking. Okay. We'll see what happens.

Okay. Okay, so this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. We're here at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we've been talking to the guy who just killed my career I could have been the next Charlie Chaplin had I not done some piece of shit pilot

with Barry Levinson Barry, thanks Barry Levinson. Barry, thanks. Special thanks to John Beach for our announcement at the beginning, as well as the interstitial singing. Check him out at voiceguy.org. And thanks also to Bennett Golden for capturing the event live for us at Tribeca. Get the closest, most comfortable shave you've ever experienced with Bull Goose shaving supplies. Whether you need a new safety razor, shaving brush, shaving cream, or aftershave, Bull Goose has you covered.

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