Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 161. Peter Asher

Episode Date: June 26, 2017

Grammy-winning producer, British Invasion rocker and former Apple Records exec Peter Asher joins Gilbert and Frank for a fascinating discussion about (among other topics) the genius of James Taylor, the profound influence of the Everly Brothers, the rivalry between the Beach Boys and the Fab Four and the 50th anniversary of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." Also, John Lennon meets Yoko Ono, Peter "inspires" Austin Powers, Linda Ronstadt teams with Nelson Riddle and Peter and Gordon play the '64 World's Fair. PLUS: Spike Milligan! Del Shannon! Jackie Gleason acts out! Chad & Jeremy meet the Caped Crusaders! And a "rejected" Beatles tune lands Peter at the top of the charts! Photo by © Charles Eshelman | www.charleseshelman.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is a singer, guitarist, recording artist, manager, Grammy-winning record producer, and eyewitness to some of the most important and defining musical events of the last half century. of the last half century. As one half of the British pop duo Peter and Gordon, he scored nine top 20 hits, including I Go to Pieces, Lady Godiver, and the million-selling number one

single, World Without Love, penned by his longtime friend, Paul McCartney. After splitting up with partner Gordon Waller in 1968, he went on to scout and develop new talent for the Beatles Apple Records label, discovering and signing a 20-something songwriter named James Taylor. He produced over a dozen Grammy-winning recordings and worked with artists such as Linda Ronst John, Randy Newman, Ringo Starr, Billy Joel, Bonnie Raitt, and even Steve Martin and Robin Williams. And is responsible for such hits as Fire and Rain, You've Got a Friend, Shower the People, You're No Good, When Will I Be Loved, and it's so easy to just name a few. You want more? He's also a former child actor, a member of Mensa, and the first person to ever hear I Wanna Hold hand, when a young Paul McCartney and John Lennon

played it for him in the basement of his mother's house. Wow. Please welcome a man of multiple talents and our first guest to be appointed a commander of the British Empire, the legendary Peter Asher. Wow, what an intro. I should take you with me everywhere. Thank you very much. That's amazing. It's like a whole opening act. That's it. Thank you. Now, before anything else, your grandfather was Lawrence of Arabia's lawyer?

Yes, he was. Wow. He was also an amateur playwright and a musician, but he was a solicitor, and one of his clients was Lawrence of Arabia. It is true. Fantastic. And did he go to his office on a camel? No, I don't think so. But my mother met him when she was little.

Wow. Your mother met T.E. Lawrence. My mother met T.E. Lawrence. She was around 17 or so. And she did tell her father how incredibly handsome she thought he was. And there was a way. And she couldn't remember exactly how he told her. But he made it clear that she was

that was not what he was interested in that an attractive young 18 year old woman was not what Lawrence was looking for in life and I've always wondered exactly how you explained it back then because you didn't go oh he's gay that's for sure but she was apparently tactfully informed by her father that not to get her hopes up.

Wow. Wow. I just keep seeing Peter O'Toole in my head. Of course, because we don't really know the real T.E. Lawrence looks like. We could look it up. No, he was handsome. He was extremely handsome. He was handsome.

There's photos. He was very handsome and in captain's uniform and everything. Right. And the other thing is if anyone listening out there looks up the name Peter Asher early photos and looks on YouTube for one of his earlier performances, you are or were Austin Powers. Well, no, not really. But what is apparently the case and and what mike myers has confirmed is that there were some photos of me back in that era that that

definitely informed the look of austin powers to considerable degree because i i did have the bad teeth and the square black glasses that i was copying buddy holly and uh and so on uh there's a thing that TMZ did where they actually lined up some photos of me and Austin Powers to make the point, which do look remarkable.

As they put it, the poor guy really did look like Austin Powers. But the character was not based on me. I think it was based on a DJ called Simon Day, I think, and a few other people.

So, you know, not that I wasn't Shagadelic, I'm sure. You were Shagadelic. But I was not the role model, but I was apparently, to some degree, the visual inspiration for the look of Austin. Did you ever talk to Mike Myers about it? I did once. I mentioned it to him, and he kind of nodded, yeah. That's fun. Yeah, because when I look at those photos, it's scary.

No, it is. He definitely, there was one particular picture, you know, where you can really see that they, he kind of went, well, maybe he should have that look, you know. Yes. Before we get into Peter and Gordon, I want to talk, you brought your mom up, and I want to mention to Gilbert, just before we turn the mics on, that your mom, you not only come from a musical family, but your mom was a teacher. She was in the London Philharmonic?

She was a professional musician. She played in various orchestras, in the Hallé Orchestra for a while with Sir Thomas Beecham, and I'm not sure which other ones. And then she was oboe professor at the Royal Academy of Music in London, yes, and also taught privately,

taught at the academy and gave some private lessons. And did she teach George Martin? Do I have that right? That's one of the strange coincidences. Wow. By the time I met George Martin in a completely other context, he went to the Guildhall School of Music where she was a guest professor.

And he was one of her pupils, yes. He was an oboe player. And here's a question I always ask people who knew George Martin. Do you think the Beatles could have made it as big as they did without George Martin? I don't know about as big. The Beatles would have made it whatever big as they did without George Martin? I don't know about as big. The Beatles would have made it whatever. They were that good. I mean, there is a certain,

there is a level of talent that is undeniable and unstoppable, in my view, that whatever happens, it would have found its, made its mark on the world. Did George help the Beatles' records be even better than they would have been otherwise? Absolutely, yes. Do they, does the genius of their records owe George a huge have been otherwise? Absolutely, yes. Does the genius of their records owe George a huge debt of gratitude? Absolutely, yes. Is he one of the

best record producers in the world? Yes. Would the Beatles have happened without him? Probably, yes, but it might have been different, you know, it's hard to say, you know, but in the same way, people have asked me that question about James Taylor, you know, would he have made it in the answers? Yes, absolutely, you know, so it's not... Well, you certainly helped. But I helped, that question about James Taylor would he have made it in the answers yes absolutely so it's not well you certainly helped I was proud to help but I mean I was just amazed when I heard him

you're colossally good this is insane you actually get to the point where you can't believe nobody else has gone this guy's brilliant and signed him up and made a record I just happened to be there first. And George was the first person to hear how good the Beatles were and recognize

it. I love that George also worked with comedians, that he worked with the goons. Absolutely. That's one of the things that recommended him to them and to me. I mean, the reason we all knew George Martin was cool wasn't the music records he'd made thus far. It was the fact that he produced Spike Milligan

and Peter Sellers, who were our heroes. Sure. I saw an interview with you and you said it all comes back to Spike Milligan. It does. Which I love. British humor entirely goes back to Spike Milligan. And he's not that well known here, but he's of course a hero to all of us. To Monty Python and to all the comedians who came after. And the Beatles.

Tell us how you made the connection with Paul McCartney. Oh, well, that's, I can't take the credit for that, but what happened was my sister, you know, was and is a successful actress in England. Jane Asher. Jane Asher. And she was kind of a celebrity and still is.

And it was in that context, I think, that she was invited to go and see this band. It was the Radio Times who invited her, which is kind of like our TV guide, except we didn't really need a TV guide because we only had one television station, which was the BBC, which was only on a night. But anyway, so this was for radio programs.

And they were doing an article on the Beatles, and they asked her to go and see them and kind of do a review. So she went to see them in London and met them after the show. She thought the band was incredibly good. She met them afterwards, thought they were funny and cute and charming and everything.

And then they liked her. One of them liked her in particular and asked her out and so on. So she ended up going out with Paul McCartney for a few years. And it was in that context that I met him. And because shortly after that, you know, one of the functions of that relationship

was that he was hanging around our house all the time. And eventually our parents kind of took pity on him and offered him the guest room at the top of the house when they weren't out on the road. And so he moved in and he and I shared the top floor of the house. And, you know, we ended up becoming friends. And one time he invited you to listen to a song he wrote. Yes, there was in the basement of the house was a small music room where my mother would give

private oboe lessons occasionally, but not very often. So she had said to Paul, if you ever need to use a piano, because he plays piano very well, he's one of those people who can play everything very well. And she said, if you need a piano use a piano, because he plays piano very well. He's one of those people who can play everything very well. And she said, if you need a piano, use the one in the basement music room. So John came over one day, quite soon after he'd moved in. This was early on. And they were down there for a couple of hours, interestingly, with no guitars. The guitars were up in his bedroom and my bedroom on the top floor.

And they were down there for a couple of hours. It was a small upright piano and a little sofa and a music stand. It was a tiny room. And then Paul called up the stairs and asked if I wanted to come down and hear the song that they had written. So I came down and sat on the little sofa, and they sat side by side on the piano bench and played I Want to Hold Your Hand for the first time.

Freshly minted. Wow. And asked me what I thought. So you were like the first person in the world to hear I Want to Hold Your Hand. He was. Other than the composers, yes. Did you have an ability at that tender age to recognize a hit song? Oh, yeah, I think we all would have.

I mean, you kind of go, am I losing my mind, or is this one of the best songs I've ever heard in my life? And, of course, what you really do, which is what I did, is ask them to play it again. And they did. Because that's what makes, you know, we all know, it's like when you used to buy 45s in the minute, the needle got to the big old fat grooves in the middle, you'd yank it back to the beginning.

Because that's the great thing about a hit record, you just want to hear it again and again. I miss those days. Yeah. Didn't he also write Yesterday in the House, and you weren't home at the time? That's right. He did. I think my mom was the first person to hear that.

Wow. But you probably know the story, but he woke up with the melody completely formed in his head and was convinced it was an existing song. He wasn't going around saying, listen to this song I've written. He was going around saying, what is this?

He's saying to my mom and to various people saying, this must be something. It's melody stuck in my head. And eventually, by process of elimination, he realized he'd written it inadvertently. And did he originally call it Scrambled Eggs? It originally had no lyrics. And then they were looking at some point,

as I say, I wasn't there, so I didn't witness this, but at some point during that day, the temporary lyrics, he was looking for a da-da-da, you know, and the first da-da-da that apparently came to mind was Scrambled Eggs. So at one point, it was something about Scrambled Eggs, How I Love Your Legs or something. Yeah. It's fascinating. But his initial reaction was someone must have written this.

Yes. This must exist. It's the only tune apparently where he woke up with it completely done as a melody. I love that. But, I mean, nobody knows really where songs come from. People tend to get a bit mystical about it. But that was an extreme case, to wake up with one of the best songs ever written.

Of course. Pre-written, without having to make any effort. Of course. We should all be so lucky. Oh, what an ability. And you're a member of Mensa? It's true. Well, I took the test.

We don't go in any order here, Peter, as you can see. I took the test a very long time ago, so at least they don't make you retake it. There's no readmission qualification. I'm sure in 150 guests, we've never had a Mensa member in here before. I probably took it when I was about 16, but I've worked on my brain cells pretty vigorously since then, so who knows what's left. Luckily, they don't make you recheck your IQ. Gil, you're not in Mensa? No, no.

It's so political. But also, I do like those kind of logic things. I mean, I read philosophy at university, so I do like maths and logic and stuff. Before we get into British Invasion— They wouldn't let me near the building. I'm sure. I'm sure you were banned. Before we get into British Invasion. They wouldn't let me near the building. I'm sure. I'm sure you were banned. Before we get into Peter and Gordon.

But I've been to a couple of meetings and they're pretty weird. Really? I've been to like two in my whole life. Now, are the people, are a lot of the people in Mensa a little bit on the crazy side? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

That's interesting. So in what way? What? Are they just like out there? Like they can't? No, it's just a bunch of people. But, you know, I'm not sure what you, I don't really know what it's for or what you'd expect.

You know, they're all going to get together and solve the world's problems in 10 minutes over dinner. But no, it's, you know, IQ, as we all know, measures a particular kind of thinking ability. Sure. It may or may not be any use. Don't go away. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

Now back to Gilbert and Frank. It's them that you soon will thank. Gilbert found this interesting, too. We want to get into the British invasion, too. There's so much to cover with someone like you, Peter. But also, you were a child actor. I was. You worked with one of Gilbert's favorites, Alistair Sim.

I did. We were in a film called Escapade together. Fascinating. Yeah, it was a good film, actually. I saw it not long ago. They had a revival of it in L.A. They were talking about some particular period of British filmmaking. I can't remember what they called it.

And some film research body was doing the screening, and they figured out I was not dead. And I was the only person in the film left. So they said, will you come and talk about making the movie? I said, yeah, of course. And you worked with Claudette Colbert. I did. Claudette Colbert played my mother. I've got a great picture of me kissing Claudette Colbert very vigorously.

How about that, Gil? It happened one night. And you worked with this actor, Jack Hawkins. Yes. Sure. He was my father in the same film that Claude at Colbert played my mother. We were in the outposts of Malaya fighting the commies on behalf of the British Empire. I love this.

In the film, we won. In real life, not so much. I was just saying, like, years ago, I was watching a talk show, and Jack Hawkins had just had his vocal cords removed. He did quite a few films after that, even with some lines that he would do with the buzzy thing, which they're getting better anyway. And it seemed like he was talking about it,

and the way some people burped the alphabet, he would burp the words. Yes, that's what, there's two ways they do it. Either they swallow the air and kind of talk over the burp or they use those buzzy things like electric razors.

And he got really good at it and could actually, you know, he was actually in a couple of films where he had short lines and he would get away with it. I'm just curious about how you... He was a terrific actor and a very nice man.

Terrific actor, Jack Hawkins, yeah. And then I did a film with Cecil Parker. I don't know if you remember. One of my favorite British actors. I don't know that name. Oh, look him up. You'll know him. Okay, Cecil Parker.

He's in everything. I know Cecil Kellaway. No. Look up Cecil Parker. He's in everything. Okay. How did you and Jane get into acting in the first place? I mean, your dad was a physician.

I know. Your mom was a musician. It's odd. The stories I'm told, I can't really remember, but apparently some agent or somebody spotted the three of us.

I've got two sisters, Jane and Claire. We all have red hair, so it was like, and we were all graded by height and looked evidently, you know,

cute or whatever. And so, somebody said, oh, you know, make some money on those kids. Get or whatever. And so somebody said, oh, you know, you should make some money out of those kids. Get them working. And anyway, some agent expressed interest

and we went, yeah, sure. And we never did anything, all three of us together. Jane and I did do one thing together because I did a number of the old Robin Hood series, if you remember that, with Richard Green and the black and white, which is a very interesting story, by the way.

That's another thing we could talk about for hours. But it was all created by blacklist Americans who had gone to England to find work. Hannah Weinstein put the thing together. It was the first episodic TV ever made in Britain. She would do a show a week. Blacklisted writers who had to go overseas. Largely blacklisted writers who went overseas. That's fascinating.

Anyway, I was Prince Arthur in a number of those episodes. But then later, after Prince Arthur had disappeared for a while, I came back as a peasant child with Jane as my sister. We were two peasant children trying to free their oppressed father from the clutches of the Sheriff of Nottingham. That's the only thing we ever did together. But you can find it. It exists.

I didn't know it was – I know the series, but I didn't know there were blacklisted American writers behind it. Hannah Weinstein is the producer, and I don't think she's related to the Weinsteins as we know them, but she was a blacklisted producer, a left-wing Jewish producer from L.A. who'd gone to London to work. How about that, Gil? Wow.

Along with a lot of cool writers who went there, too. So all of them, the whole crew was basically blacklisted. No, the crew probably was. I'm sure the union crew had to be English. But the creators. But I think the creators, I understand. Certainly Hannah Weinstein, who was the key figure, and they used some blacklisted writers as well to write episodes.

I've got to dig into that. Yeah. So how did music, you're always musical, it was a musical family, but you obviously decided at some point not acting. Yes, I'd like to think I made that decision but it could be that the acting community made that decision. We'll give you credit for it.

No, I mean, by the time I got to school, see Jane quit school when she was about 15. She knew acting was for her and she didn't need school. So, but I went to Westminster, which is a serious, what in England we call a public school, which isn't really public at all.

Expensive and hard to get into. And it was a very serious school in the middle, founded by Elizabeth I and all that stuff. So they would never give you time off to go and be in a film or anything. So between that and the fact that I probably wasn't getting as much work as I was, I just started taking school seriously. And I could combine school and music, but not school and acting. And at the risk of getting the wrath of Beatles fans the world over,

you introduced John Lennon to Yoko Ono. I was responsible for that meeting. Yes, I started a bookshop and an art gallery with some friends, two friends of mine, Barry Miles and John Dunbar. Miles ran the bookshop, John ran the art gallery, and I was the third partner and also put some of the money I thought I was making in pop music. the money I thought I was making in pop music turned out it wasn't really, but that's another story, into the bookshop and the art gallery called Indica, named, of course, after the plant, Cannabis Indica.

There may be some botanists. Oh. That tells us a lot. Yes, exactly. And so we were trying to be like the City Lights Bookshop or something. It was, you know, it was effective. We, you know, William Burroughs came over and did a reading. Ginsberg did a reading there

it became the spot and then we opened this art gallery and John had heard about this Japanese American artist who

we thought sounded wacky enough to be in a cool avant-garde gallery so John got hold of her and asked if she'd come

and do an exhibition she said yes we took an ad in the paper and she came over and everything and the way these things work you'd We took an ad in the paper and she came over and everything. And the way these things work, you'd have an opening night for the press and everything with wine and cheese or whatever. But we sometimes had a pre-press opening that we would invite friends to.

And by this point, the Beatles were amongst my friends. So we invited everybody and one of them came and that was John. So that's where he and Yoko met. Invited everybody and one of them came and that was John. So that's where he and Yoko met. And a lot of people have this very easy answer that it was Yoko who split up the Beatles. No, I don't think so. I mean, you know, they were arguing about a lot of different things. And, you know, I think, yes, some of them got annoyed about Yoko.

But in the end, it was Alan Klein that they were arguing about. You know, when they'd agreed that they wanted some serious businessman to come in and rethink the whole thing because by then it had expanded into numerous areas beyond music. Apple Records was one thing, but it was films and electronics and clothes and this, that, and it was going a bit nuts.

They just couldn't agree on who that person should be. And John was determined that it should be Alan Klein. And I think he was mistaken. I knew about Alan from New York and I knew him essentially to be kind of a crook, you know. Turned out to be true. Turned out to be true. And so Paul was vehemently against Alan. John, Alan Klein somehow talked John into it the way these people do.

Maybe he told John he was going to make Apple great again or something. I don't know. Whatever it took. But however these crooks talk us into electing them. But it didn't work. And anyway, that was what I think – if one thing brought Paul and John to a point of departure from each other, that was it. And you were at Apple then. So you were in the middle of some of those arguments.

The minute they chose klein um i resigned so i by by the time john arrived i left and took james taylor with you by the time out but then alan arrived sorry i i had left and the relationship between yoko and john what did that how did that your opinion i wasn't there that much of the time i mean it was very close he looked he valued her opinion on everything and she's a very smart woman she's an eccentric woman but a brilliant woman and and uh i think the beatles would just it was it was new to them because the rest of them had you know wives or girlfriends they would leave and go to work and yoko was part of john's light partnership in every in everything and i think they found that disconcerting.

But, I mean, no, she and John loved each other very dearly, no question about that. But I wasn't there enough to comment beyond that. Let's talk about Peter and Gordon and meeting Gordon. You met Gordon at Westminster School? Met Gordon at school, yes. I mean, essentially, we were both, you know, we were the only people we ran into who also played the guitar.

By this time, I'd got a guitar. I played various instruments badly. I'd never kept up with my piano lessons or anything musically. Both my sisters are much better musically than I am. They both read music much better than I do, which is probably why I'm the only one making a living in the music business. That's ironic. But eventually, I got a guitar, and I had a skiffle group like we all did.

That's a whole other program. Lonnie Donegan. The skiffle movement, exactly. Lonnie Donegan was great. We talked to. Exactly. Lonnie Donegan was great. We talked to Billy J. Kramer about that very thing. Yeah, he was such a big deal. Yeah. And most Americans don't get it.

Jack White is a huge Lonnie Donegan fan. There are a few outposts of Lonnie Donegan fandom in the U.S. music. What was the song, Does Your Chewing Gum? Well, the good one was Rock Island. That's right. And the bad one was Does Your Chewing Gum. Right. That was the novelty one that we got in the States.

Lose His Favorite. Well, no. Rock Island Lime was number one. What? one. Right. That was the novelty one that we got in the States. Well, no, Rock Island Line was number one. Yeah. Which is a Lead Belly song. And then Does Your Chewing Gum Lose Its Flavor on the Bedpost overnight was also, sadly. I guess I was a child, so that's the one that I remember. Right. So Gordon played the guitar and sang as well. And so we tried doing it together just really because we were there, you know.

And it sounded okay. We'd work up some songs. And he was a bit more of a rock and roll. He was a big Eddie Cochran fan, big Elvis fan. You were more the folky. I was a bit more folky. And we were sort of a folky-ish duo. But where our tastes totally overlapped was the Everly Brothers.

Like all duos throughout history. Whether it's Simon and Garfunkel or John and Paul or us, the Everly Brothers were our inspiration. Everybody wanted to be the Everly Brothers. Everybody wanted to be the Everly Brothers. We did. You were both big fans of American pop music. Yep, for sure.

I mean, again, this is a big subject because it goes beyond pop music. What you've got to understand is we were big fans of America. I mean, when we grew up in, you know, people often ask me why the 60s were special in England and why it was different. And the answer is in the 50s, because the 50s in Britain and America could not have been more different. 50s in England were black and white, bomb sites, depressing.

We still had rationing until 1956, you know. And we'd look across the Atlantic, and there was this miraculous land. You know, if we were black and white, they were technicolor and glossy and perfect teeth and huge refrigerators full of exotic foods and these silly cars with giant fins on them. You had a poster of the New York skyline, didn't you?

I did. I had a poster of the New York skyline on my wall. I had copies of Downbeat with the jazz clubs I'd go to the minute I got to New York. I knew I would somehow. You couldn't wait to go. I had a poster of New York Skyline on my wall. I had copies of Downbeat with the jazz clubs I'd go to the minute I got to New York. I knew I would somehow. You couldn't wait to go. I didn't know how. And going back and forth then was a very big deal.

Now people go for a week's holiday in Florida like there's nothing to it. There's cheap tickets. And then it was a very big, very expensive deal. And on top of all that, you know, America, we could see, was taking over. This whole British Empire thing was, you know, which people were still on about in England. It was clearly not happening anymore. You know, it was clearly to all of us. That was yesterday, and tomorrow was America.

And on top of that, to clinch it, all these American cities that we knew about from movies and television, New York and L.A. and New Orleans, and they all had amazing music, which we loved. So we were obsessed with American music. So it wasn't just the Everleys. You were listening to Little Richard. Oh, no.

You were listening to Fats Domino. You were listening to anything you can get your hands on. Of course. And we all were. I mean, the Beatles were a cover band. Of course. That's how they began. They were doing all American songs.

I used to go and see, you know, R&B was huge. I used to go and see the Rolling Stones every Monday night. They were playing at a place called Studio 51, which was an R&B was huge. I was going to see the Rolling Stones every Monday night. They were playing at a place called Studio 51, which was an R&B night on Mondays. It was Ken Colley's jazz club the rest of the week. And they were playing all, you know, in their case it would be like Bo Diddley and Willie Dixon and Muddy Waters.

But nobody was playing their own songs. It was all a tribute to American music. Right. And so Peter and Gordon, when you guys formed, that winds up becoming your ticket to America. We did a bunch of R&B stuff and we did folk stuff and we did Evely stuff. Yes, exactly. And that's what got us signed. You know, we were spotted playing in a club by an A&R guy and signed up.

And you said in an interview that everybody would confuse every single one of the English groups and duos together. Well, you guys were confused with Chad and Jeremy? Duos particularly. Chad and Jeremy, which was kind of weird, really. We knew each other, you know. We actually took over one gig from them. They were playing one bar and they were leaving to go play somewhere else as a residency.

And the bar asked them if they could recommend someone else they recommended us so we helped each other out but it was kind of odd because the two duos in both cases the tall handsome one sang the low part the short nerdy one with glasses sang the high part and and uh and uh so i mean it was and what would happen is they did things that we didn't do they did like the patty du. They were on Batman. Oh, sure. The Dick Van Dyke show. And the Dick Van Dyke show.

Right. And people would congratulate us, but they were never on Ed Sullivan and we were. Oh. That's great. But so what happened is, you know, we would do Ed Sullivan. People would congratulate them and you kind of go. That was the one where they had so many mobs of people chasing them, and they had to stay with the pet tree for a while.

Yes. Oh, that's it. Yes. And they were playing another mythical English duo with different names. I believe so. Like Rodney and – They weren't even Chad and Jeremy, which makes no sense at all looking back. Well, Jeremy's still a very successful actor.

Yes. He's in a play in London. Yeah, we were talking to Billie J about it. As is Jane, by the way. My sister's in the London version of An American in Paris. Oh, cool. Which is great. With the original guy from here, you know, the lead guy, whatever his name is.

Amazing and brilliant. And Jane plays Madame somebody or other. And after those years of the New York skyline, tell us what the experience was when you finally got to New York. It was brilliant. I mean, it was astounding. One of our first gigs was playing the World's Fair.

What's the sphere thing called? Oh, the Unisphere. Unisphere. You played the 64 World's Fair? We did. That's cool. That was one of our very first gigs. And first of all, we were just arriving in New York, and we knew exactly what it was going to look like.

And it did. It really looked like the sky. And then, of course, to arrive and be chased around the city by teenage girls trying to tear your clothes off can only improve the experience. You know, it's the only way to travel. I recommend it highly. We wouldn't know.

And we played in the Unisphere. They had a sort of a moat thing filled with water between us and the audience. And of course, the minute we came on,

they all jumped in the water and swam across. So it was like a wet t-shirt contest. Wonderful. So it was all very exciting. So you enjoyed your career over the years.

I did. I enjoyed every moment. You lived every minute of the British Invasion fantasy out. Absolutely, yes. That's great. I continue to enjoy it every moment of it. You lived every minute of the British Invasion fantasy out. Absolutely, yes. That's great. I continue to enjoy it, by the way.

So how did World Without Love happen? That was obviously a game changer. It was. Well, what had happened was, you know, we got signed up by this guy, Norman Newell, who I think was thinking of us as kind of a folk duo. I think we were kind of like Britain's answer to the Kingston Trio, the Kingston duo, as it were.

Interesting. Or Peter and Paul without Mary. So, because that's, it was a song, we did a version of 500 Miles that he particularly liked

and so on. So he said, we auditioned, they signed us, they said, we're doing 500 Miles, we're doing this, we're doing that,

I'm going to go look for a couple of songs, but if you know any other songs you'd like to put on the list, let me know. Now, cut to, a few months before that i'd heard this song well without love that paul had written and i said that's a really good song and he said yeah but i'm putting it aside we're not i'm not finishing it we're not going to do it it's um john doesn't think much of it and you

know i'm abandoning it for now and uh apparently john really didn't like it and i i've read later i didn't witness this and i've read later i didn't witness this but i've read later that john would actually interrupt paul when paul would start to try and sell him the song because the first line is please lock me away and john would go okay i will the song's over and uh so anyway so when norman said you know any other songs i kind of went maybe i do and i went back to back to Paul at home that very evening and said, is that song, Well Without Love, still an orphan? And he said, yes, we're not doing it. I said, well, can we try and work up a harmony version of it?

Because it's pretty cool. And he said, yes, happily. So by this time, it had the two verses but no bridge. So he wrote out the two verses for me on a piece of paper, which you better believe is safely locked in my safe. I saw that you still have that. Oh, yeah. So the minute the music business collapses completely,

I can run to Sotheby's as fast as my legs can carry me. I would. But anyway, and he made a demo on my reel-to-reel tape machine. And then before the session came around, I had to nag him a little bit to write the bridge so i wait and in a while bit um which he did and it went on the list and we recorded it that very first day and by the end of the session there was no doubt in anyone's mind that was going to be a single we weren't folkies we were going to be pop stars and and it came out only a month

later and went to number one in the uk number one in all over europe and eventually to our disbelief and incredulity number one in america in fact it was the first british invasion number one in america after the beatles we after i want to hold you i haven't stopped being number one we went up there which is insanely great the only snag for me was by that time i'd left westminster gordon was still there because a year younger I was at university doing philosophy. And in England, you know, they don't let you leave and come back. We don't have these mysterious credits that you have over here. Right.

You're supposed to just start, you know, get your degree. And so I had to go and meet with the head of the philosophy department and explain this problem. And finally, I convinced him this was a completely unique opportunity. And he gave me a one-year leave of absence. Oh, nice. To go and get all this rock and roll nonsense out of my system and come back and get my degree. And tragically, of course, I have to admit to my shame

that I'm still on that one year's leave of absence. Well, you had bigger fish to fry. Well, yes, exactly. I just have to absorb certain things here. You're the first human being to hear I Want to Hold Your Hand, and you have songs being just handed over to you by Paul McCartney and John Lennon. It's true. It's true.

It was a leftover song. But what's interesting is because people go, how did you get all those other songs? And we didn't do any getting at all. They took songwriting seriously. I mean, if you read any interviews with the Beatles back then, one of the questions we all got asked is, what are you going to do when this is all over?

Because the assumption was, confident assumption, that two years was the max for a pop career. And they would always say, we will be songwriters. Because they didn't just want to be Eddie Cochran and Elvis and Buddy Holly. They wanted to be Lieber and Stola. Oh, and Bachar rack and david backer rack and david wow but pomus and

schumann they they knew that they looked upon it as the sort of a separate career and and songwriters i mean if you have a big hit single you make damn sure you write the follow-up you don't want somebody else cashing in on you know on your success so when we came back from our first trip to america promoting well without love the second single nobody i know was written with a bridge on your success. So when we came back from our first trip to America promoting Well Without Love, the second single, Nobody I Know, was written with a bridge. Waiting for you. So we didn't have to do any begging.

That's what songwriters do. They give you the songs you need. What's the moment like, and there are only so many people on the planet that could answer this question, the moment that you find out that you have the number one record in the country. Well, it's insane.

And number one in England was insane. Number one in America meant more to us. And it's the same when the Beatles got the same phone call six months earlier or whatever it was, that I Want to Hold Your Hand was number one, because they knew they would get to go there, and that's what we knew. In other words, it meant we were going to America.

It was a phone call? The news came to you in a phone call? Yes, it came to you in a phone call. And, you know, that was like the irrevocable proof that we were going to get to go to this land that we dreamed of going to. And we did. You know, it's funny to think, because you told us about how the English had this dream world view of America. And when the English invasion was starting, The English had this dream world view of America.

And when the English invasion was starting, America looked at everyone coming from there thinking, oh, this is the hip spot. I know. Isn't that weird? And, you know, as I say, that's what people ask is why were the 60s so cool? And it was a reaction. You know, it was a reaction to the bleakness of the 50s. Because everyone tried. They crowned a new queen and said it's a new Elizabethan age and blah, blah, blah. But eventually it wasn't until the young people kind of went, we're going to screw all this. Everyone in the 50s tried to dress like a grown-up.

You tried to look older than you were. And suddenly everyone went, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to wear a suit like my dad i'm going to wear these absurdly silly clothes and velvet and flowers and bell bombs and you know and and it changed everything and and then america fell in love with i mean america was doing it too with the whole hippie thing but sure there was something radical that happened in england which was a distinct reaction to the bleakness of the 50s and there was a reaction to the 50s in america too because they were a bit

conventional and sturdy. But they weren't miserable like they were in England. Do you want to... Are you feeling brave, Peter? I think so, yes. Since we're talking about World Without Love, and he's been excited about this, he sang

Wichita Lineman with Jimmy. So I'm told, I didn't consult with Jimmy before I came up. You should have. I probably should have. Perhaps you should have. Jimmy is a good friend

and I'm a huge fan. He's the best. But, yeah, that's one thing I failed to do was go, should I let him sing with me? Well, we always ask. All right.

I'm going to have to carry you through this. He's got a part. Don't worry. We'll do it. You follow the script and I'll join you. to carry you through this. He's got a heart. Don't worry. We'll do it. You follow the script, and I'll join you. Follow his lead. Okay.

You follow the script. Okay. Here we go. Please lock me away And don't allow the day Here inside Where I hide With my loneliness

I don't care what they say I won't stay in a world without love Birds sing out of tune And rain clouds hide the moon I'm okay okay here I'll stay with my loneliness I don't care

what they say I won't stay in a world without love so I wait and in a while I will see my true love smile. She may come, I know not when. When she does, I know. So baby, until then, lock me away.

And don't allow the day here inside where I hide with my loneliness. I don't care what they say. I won't stay in a world without love. Second bridge. Second Gilbert. So I wait, and in a while, I will see my true love smile. She may come, I know not when. When she does, I lose.

So baby, until then, lock me away. And don't allow the day here inside where I hide with my loneliness. I don't care what they say. I won't stay in a world without love. One repeat. I don't care what they say. I won't stay in a world without love. And an instrumental Brilliant.

Brilliant. Peter and Gilbert. Who needs Gordon? Brilliant. Peter and Gilbert, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much. That was fun. Birds are not the only ones singing

out of tune. Oh, yeah. And the interesting thing is, there's these weird lyrics floating around, which, when she does, I lose, which came from God knows where. It's on the web in places, but it's wrong. It's when she does, I'll know. Oh, wow. I apologize

for that. No, it's quite all right, but every now and then you look up the lyrics and it says lose, but if you listen, we're definitely saying no. And he wrote no. How strange. I have a handwritten manuscript to prove it. When she does, I'll know. So when she does, I'll lose.

Right. That's kind of insulting. Yes. When she finally turns up, you go, uh-oh. I'll start proofreading the lyrics going forward. Here's another thing I like about Paul living in your house. Your dad had arranged for an escape route for him Yeah, my father found a way over into a neighbor's house

On the roofs So that Paul could escape Because of course it became known eventually that he was there The weirdest part of course must have been for Because my house was in Wimpole Street Which is that whole Wimpole Street, Harley Street medical zone So my father saw patients there too It was his consulting rooms as well as our house The house was in Wimpole Street, you know, which is that whole Wimpole Street, Harley Street medical zone. So my father saw patients there, too.

It was his consulting rooms as well as our house. So he would have patients come, and there'd be, like, a crowd of girls on the doorstep, and we never explained. Completely bewildered. There's the only doctor in England with groupies, you know. Now, a strange thing in your life that brings me, reminds me of a movie that I saw. What's that? Oh, you were the best man at the wedding for Marianne Faithfull. I was.

I was, yes. Now, Marianne Faithfull did a strange movie. Go on a motorcycle? No, I think it was Irena Palm. Ah, okay. Where she's a grandmother. Oh, this was more recently. Yes, yes. Not young, beautiful Marianne.

Oh, no, no. This is the old Marianne. Yes, yes. She's great. I love Marianne. Anyway, no, I don't remember that. I haven't seen it. She's a grandmother

who's retired and, you know, struggling for money and has a handicapped son and the movie is how she just falls into a job where she where guys go to a place put their dicks through a hole in the wall and marianne faithful on the other side jerks them off. Where on earth did you see this? This is a movie. It's actually not a bad film.

Well, there you go. I wasn't aware of that. That's a showstopper. That's very good, yes. And it wasn't like a sex comedy or anything. How strange. It was like very serious stuff. I have to research that.

Yes. I have not seen it. I could bring it out with Marianne, I suppose. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't. Tell us about part of the experiences you just mentioned, playing The Sullivan Show. And what was that like? It was great.

I mean, it was... I'll tell you an interesting story, though. The reason we weren't on The Sullivan Show when we first got here was indirectly Alan Klein again. Uh-oh. And I'll tell you why. Not being evil, actually being clever. He had set up a system whereby when all the new English singles came out, he would have them shipped immediately that week, the new hot releases, straight over to New York.

And occasionally he would cover them on his label, Cameo Parkway. And Bobby Rydell did a cover of World Without Love. The minute it did come out in the UK, before Ours came out in America. He put his out, went in the charts. And then when Ours came out, we luckily knocked him out of the charts. And Ours became the hit. But meanwhile, when we got here and our agent tried to get us on Ed Sullivan, they were going, fine.

But then they said, we're going to sing, what was the other one? No, no, you can't do that. Bobby did that song last week. Oh, bad timing. Because he was a regular on The Sullivan Show. So we didn't get on Sullivan until later with another McCartney song called I Don't Want to See You Again. Right. But that was why we weren't on.

What was Ed like to Mr. Sullivan? It was Mr. Sullivan, and you didn't really meet him. But they did tell you, when you finish and bow, look over. Mr. Sullivan. It was Mr. Sullivan and you didn't really meet him. But they did tell you, when you finish and bow, look over at Mr. Sullivan. And if he puts his arm out, you walk over and shake his hand. But if he doesn't, you don't. But he did, of course, or I wouldn't be telling

the story. From England, the two London youngsters who met while they were attending Westminster School and developed top flight stars. Ladies and gentlemen into top flight stars. Ladies and gentlemen, Peter and Gordon. I don't want to see you again I hear that love is planned How can I understand

When someone says to me i don't want to see you again why do i cry at night something wrong could be right i hear you say to me I don't want to see you again As you turn your back on me You hit the light of day I didn't have to play Broken hearted But later on After love's been and gone I'll still hear someone say, I don't want to see you again. I didn't have to play at the end Brokenhearted

I know that love is bad How can I understand When someone says to me I don't want to see you again I don't want to see you again I don't want to see you again I don't want to see you again I'll tell you one person that was a bit of a surprise

was when our agent got all excited when they said that they'd got us on the Jackie Gleason show and we'd never heard of him. I love that. We didn't get, we got very few, we got Sergeant Bilko, that was the only American TV we got.

We loved Phil Silvers. We didn't get The Honeymooners, so we had no idea. And everyone's going, oh, Jackie Gleason, this is amazing, you know, so cool, you're on his show. So we were quite excited. There was this legendary guy. So this is when he had a variety show down in Miami. Sure.

After Honeymooners. Yeah. They would do a bit of Honeymooners. Jackie Gleason show. They did a bit of Honeymooners in the middle of it. That's right. So we went down there, you know, and walk on the set, and there's this obnoxious, drunken asshole of a man.

Being really horrible to everyone. Not to us. He didn't even speak to us. But the crew, the cast, it was, this guy's a complete shit, you know. And that, of course, was the immortal Jackie.

Oh, no. The great one. Since then, I, what, the honeymooners, learned it all by heart. I recognized he was a complete genius and had every right

to be as arsehole-ish as he wished. But he certainly was using that right to the fullest on this particular occasion. Amazing. But then we did Red Skelton, and he, on the other hand, was not drunk and not unpleasant at all. He was very nice. Did you do Miltie's show, too? No, we never did. Oh, okay. Oh, that

saves the question. Red Skelton. The internet cannot be trusted in certain respects. Maybe we did do. They have you guys playing the Burl show. Maybe we did. We did a few. I don't remember meeting him, but I know. I don't remember. Maybe we did.

All right. Who knows? So Peter and Gordon. If it's on the internet, it must be true. I do. It must be true. I also want to ask you about one other hit. I want to ask you about I Go to Pieces, written by the great Dale Shannon.

Dale Shannon. Yes. Yeah. What was he like? I mean, it's a great talent who came to a Saturday. Very nice. I mean, that was another one talent who came to a Saturday. Very nice. I mean, that was another one we sort of picked up off the floor in a way because we were on tour with The Searchers, another great English band,

and Del Shannon. And he'd written this song that he thought would be right for The Searchers. And inexplicably, and to my mind mistakenly, they turned it down. They said, thank you very much. I don't think it's right for us. They actually could have made a good record of it. But we'd overheard it and kind of went, oh, well, if they're not doing it, can we have it? And we worked out a version and said, look, hold that song.

We'll cut it as soon as we get back to England. And we did. Great track. And so when Peter and Gordon finally split up in 68, you decide to go in different directions. Well, the interesting thing is we didn't actually split up. You didn't officially split up. We know. I mean, we never said this is our last gig.

We never had a big row. We never had an Everly Brothers punch up on stage or anything, you know. We just drifted into a kind of hiatus. And I confess that when the hiatus went on for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, my assumption was we're not going to do this. But, of course, we did. Gordon and I got back together after 38 years. Thanks to Paul Schaefer.

Thanks to Paul Schaefer. But to go back to where you were, where were you again? Oh, yes. That's when I went off and did other things. You were on different paths. I wanted to be a record producer. I knew that. Right.

I loved the process of making records from the day we first went in the studio. And so I did. And that's a career I deliberately went off to. And you were sort of like at one point not as excited about performing as you are about being in the creative process. Yes. Well, performing then was very different too. I mean, we had fun.

We had a great time. But it's like, you know, you probably saw it eight days a week. And when the Beatles... It's great, by the way. Yeah, it's terrific. You're recommended. Oh, yeah, terrific. Ron Howard's a great friend and a brilliant filmmaker.

But, you know, you couldn't hear yourself. They couldn't hear you really. I mean, it was an experience. But music now, it's great. You know, the technology's changed everything. People forget they were singing through the PA system when they would play arenas in those days. Monitors didn't exist.

Yeah. The word monitor didn't exist. There were jobs that we have now that didn't exist. Front of house makes it. Didn't exist. Guitar tech didn't exist. I mean, not all that stuff. And monitor makes it.

No monitors. You were using whatever PA was in the building, including like the same thing they announced the score over was what you were saying. Right, so when they play Candlestick Park, that's what they're singing. It's crazy. And then you just had big amps on stage. Nothing was mic'd except the vocals. It was crazy. So you couldn't hear yourself.

You couldn't hear anything. They couldn't hear you. It was kind of annoying. And I loved the studio, you know, completely. So I decided I wanted to and then got lucky enough to find an artist I believed in. That's when I became a manager as well. And you said that in an interview that how much it's changed being on the road. Completely, yes. What are the changes?

Well, as I say, some of it is the technology. Some of it is the fact that it's organized now. It was chaotic then. I mean, everyone was making it up as they went along. I mean, there are aspects of it that have maybe become too corporate and too organized on a grand scale. You know, with crazy $300 ticket prices and you know, all that stuff.

It's just got very elaborate now. But there's a certain homemade-ness that one misses, but there's no question. Now when you go to a show, now you expect to be able to hear everything and see everything and get a real production, and you do. And it's great, and it's exciting. So it's changed radically. It's stunning to think that this-

Even on our level, even when I play clubs, I still go out and I do a memoir show thing with a band. And then I've lately been doing a bunch of gigs with Albert Lee, a genius guitar player. Absolutely. Who played with the Everly Brothers. Who played with the Everly Brothers, my brothers the Everly Brothers my brothers and Emmylou Harris for years and all that stuff but even for us it's completely different

I mean we can hear ourselves the audience can hear everything perfectly you know you can really make a show sound good your guitars sound like real guitars

and back then there was no none of that existed and I think the Beatles were getting tired of that not being able to hear themselves completely

I mean Ringo says it was only by watching their behinds, their whole backs and movement, that he knew what song they were doing. Right. I mean, it was crazy. A combination of bad tech and screaming. Yeah, exactly.

A combination of bad tech and screaming fans. Right, right. I mean, that scene in Eight Days a Week when Ringo comes out and he's trying to stop the drum riser falling over before he climbs on it. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's insane.

Yeah. I mean, I remember we had one guy on the road, you know, doing everything. And I was kind of, when we toured with the Beatles, I went, well, this will be different. They had two, you know. But now, a band like the Beatles would have a hundred people and semis and, you know, the change is beyond measure. So you went your separate ways. Paul asked you to take a job at Apple.

Yes. And you went into A&R. Yep. So you went your separate ways. Paul asked you to take a job at Apple. Yes. And you went into A&R. Yep. And you were scouting talent. He started off saying, would you produce some records for Apple? Because he was aware of my production work. Sure. And he played on a couple of things that I had produced.

So he'd watch me at work. And I said yes. And then he said, well, why don't you be head of A&R for the label? Jumped at it. Yes. And Mr. Taylor came into your life. Came into my life. Danny Korchmar? Yes.

Danny Korchmar had been in a... You know, we used to get assigned a band to back us up on different legs of a tour in America. I mean, admittedly, you only had to work up 20 minutes of songs, but the bands varied a great deal in quality. But Danny was in a good band called

The King Bees, and they backed us up on two tours I think and Danny and I became great friends in that time then he was subsequently some years later in this band The Flying Machine with his childhood friend James Taylor they'd grown up on the vineyard together and so that band was in New York

and having a hard time and a couple of them were strung out and broke and this that and the other and the band broke up and James decided he would go to London. He had a girlfriend he thought he could stay with in London. Danny gave him my phone number. Just said, you know, here's a friend of mine in London. If you're going to be there, give him a call. So he called me up out of the blue, came over.

And what did you hear? Which song? Something in the way she moves, something's wrong, knocking around the zoo not Caroline in my mind he wrote that a few months later that was probably soak around the Sun not sure what else but you knew you knew straight away I was knocked out I mean everything I mean he had played the guitar brilliantly this finger-picking style that obviously owed something to classical playing he'd live been listening to Segovia and Julian Bream and stuff and not just you know, folkies.

But then he was using these kind of jazzy Manhattan's records kind of chords, but singing with this beautiful folky tenor. And of course, in that era the term singer-songwriter hadn't been invented. If you had long hair and played the guitar you were a folk singer. It didn't matter if you never sang

a folk song. That's interesting. If you wrote every song you played guitar, you were a folk singer. It didn't matter if you never sang a folk song. That's interesting. If you wrote every song you played, you were still a folk singer. And that was what he was. But I'd never heard anything that good. And we had this strange conversation that really was kind of, I said, look, I've got this new job. I'm head of A&R for a new record label. Would you like a record deal?

And he said, yes, I'd love one. And so within two days, I had him in the office meeting the Beatles and signing up. And they responded too? They loved it too. I played them something, The Way She Moves in particular, and they all agreed. What's not to like? What's not to like. And so he was the first artist signed to Apple.

And that gets us back to another subject we brought up on this show. Which is? Songs that mention other songs in them well i believe and i'm i hope this isn't bad information too but that something in the way she moves in some way inspired george well we have to assume so um right yeah george certainly heard it and liked it right and then wrote a song with oddly similar lyrics yeah um but james in response to that when people say how do you feel you know did george adopt your phrase the answer is that in that song there's james keeps putting in i feel fine which

he said he thought oh wow wow that's great stuff she's around me now and i feel fine when he says holy host of others standing around me that's what apparently he's referring to the beatles yes that's cool that's been caroline in my mind that's pretty cool too yeah he wrote that after he wrote that's i. He wrote that. That's what I mean. He wrote that. It was after he'd met them. We'd signed to Apple.

He went away for a week or two of holiday to Ibiza. And that's where he wrote Carolina. It's great. I'll tell you. I've seen interviews and listened to interviews with James Taylor recently. Yeah. He gives you a lot of credit for being the person that believed in him. I did.

I mean, because essentially when we moved to America, you know, neither of us had any money. I was betting my career on his. I dropped him off on the East Coast for a bit of rehab he was in the mood for at the time. And I then went out to California and made a record deal. And looking back at those people, I mean, and the people that you assembled, I mean, Danny, Randy Meisner, Carole King, Russ Kunkel. No, hold on. That's not the Apple album. No, no. I mean, later, Randy Meisner, Carole King, Russ Kunkel. No, hold on. That's not the Apple album. No, no.

I mean, later on. Oh, Sweet Baby James. Yeah, Sweet Baby James. Yeah. Well, I mean, they were very distinct because the Apple album was just people in London. So, you know, Paul played on it. But other than that,

we had to put a little band together of English musicians. Right. I jumped. I split when you went to L.A. Right. Sorry. Sorry. I thought you said my mistake.

But then when we got to L.A., I decided to make the album much simpler and I wanted to put went to L.A. Right. Sorry, I thought you said my mistake. But then when we got to L.A., I decided to make the album much simpler and I wanted to put a band together. By this time, I'd heard the demos Carole King had done of all the great songs she wrote. You know, the demo of Up on the Roof or whatever. And I loved her piano playing. So when Danny Korchma introduced me to Carole,

I said, would you consider just being the pianist on this project i'm doing and she came over to my house where james was staying and they met and sat down and played together and russ kunkle had never been in the studio before he wow i i heard him in a john stewart rehearsal john stewart used to be in the king's trio yeah um and uh i loved the way he played he was the first person i'd heard he clearly hadn't been listening to hal blaine but to ring, you know what I mean? A whole other kind of drum fill. And so I hired him to do those sessions. And how did you find Linda Ronstadt?

Somebody, I was in New York, and somebody said, you have to go and see this girl. I don't remember who it was. Have to go and see this girl playing at the Bitter End. She's amazing. She's got the greatest voice you've ever heard in your life. She's brilliant and she's unbelievably beautiful. She sings barefoot and, you know, it was all true.

And I went there and met her afterwards. And we didn't actually start working together right away because I'd just started working with Kate Taylor, James' sister, and I thought managing two women might be complicated. But in the end, Kate decided to take some time off, and at that point, Linda and I got together, and I started managing her and producing her. And the first album I produced with Linda,

she'd done a couple of other ones, but I produced Hot Like a Wheel. And the thing that eventually had her stop performing, Linda Ronstadt. Well, she has Parkinson's. Yeah. How's she doing, by the way? I mean, as well as anyone with a very unpleasant disease can be doing.

Of course. She's fine. She always worries about her brain because she goes, I feel my brain turning to Swiss cheese. But she's so brilliant. She's one of the smartest women I've ever met. Incredibly well-read. Best girl singer you've ever heard in your life. She is.

It's amazing that those two things were the part of the same person, but they do. There's no reason they shouldn't, but it's very fortunate when someone's an amazingly good singer and is incredibly smart and well-read and fascinating. So I treasure her as a singer and as a friend. But yes, so Parkinson's stopped her singing and she can walk a bit and stuff,

but it's a very annoying disease. We're fans here. And those albums, Prisoner in Disguise, Hard Like a Wheel, I mean, Simple Dreams, Living in the USA, they're wonderful records. Thank you very much. And if our listeners, we have about a million people now a month listening to the show.

If our listeners do not know these albums, by all means, run out and get them. Absolutely. And also the James Taylor. She's one of the greatest interpreters of songs because she's not a songwriter, you know, but she herself, I mean, I didn't know about Warren Zevon

until she came to me and said, we're going to do several songs about this brilliant guy. And she was right. Well, all those songs. The McGarrigle Sisters, she rescued. Elvis Costello, she does Alison. Yeah, it's funny.

And then Elvis was incredibly rude about it, but she subsequently apologized. Oh, interesting. Oh, what? How was he rude about it? Oh, because, you know, he had to be. He was a punk. And so, you know, he did a Rolling Stone interview

and he kind of derided Linda's version as, you know, awful. Meanwhile, of course, it made him more money than he'd ever made in his life so far because it was a big hit. But he did. I love Elvis very much. We've become friends and he totally acknowledges that he was being a bit of a deliberate punk in the musical sense.

That's funny. I'm glad he apologized. The songwriting, I mean, not just Yvonne and Elvis Costello, but I mean, that you guys were picking Stones covers, Orbison, Buddy Holly. I mean, not just Zvon and Elvis Costello, but I mean, that you guys were picking you know, Stones covers, Orbison, Buddy Holly. I mean, you went to the best places. We did. I mean, Linda and I were fans of a lot of

the same people, and so we did that. Yes, it was fun. I love When I Grow Too Old to Dream, which on Living in the USA, I don't know which one of you decided to pick that one, but it's that is an absolutely stunning song. I think that was Linda think i'm not sure generally i'm the one usually picking some of the rock and roll ones because linda would make an

all slow album given the choice she likes singing slow songs and of course when we did the nelson riddle albums which was completely her idea not mine i i supported her in it but i didn't think they would be successful and of course they, they did unbelievably well. They're great records. The first one sold three or four million, more than her preceding rock and roll albums. And working with Nelson was a thrill to us. I owe Linda a huge debt of gratitude for that. My hat's off.

Those records are wonderful. And Elvis Costello since then, of course, has become a hero of mine. He's one of the best songwriters in America. And our friend Jimmy Webb turns up twice. And Jimmy Webb. On Get Closer. Yes, he does. And then we did that Cry Like a. And Jimmy Webb. On Get Closer. Yes, he does.

And then we did that Cry Like a Rainstorm, Howl Like a Wind album. That's right. Three Jimmy Webb tunes, I think. Adios and gosh. I can't. I know the Moon is the Heart's Mistress. Moon is the Heart's Mistress. That's a great song.

Yeah. No, Jimmy's amazing. There's nobody like him. And how did you get involved with Robin Williams and Steve Martin? Quite differently. Robin, I think I met through my wife, who knew Robin. My wife, Wendy, knew Robin before I did. And so we met and hit it off and became great friends,

and we would hang out together a lot. And when he was talking about filming and recording the tour, I had some ideas about how we could make a record that would be a different thing than the DVD of one show. You know, the DVD was the HBO show, essentially. But for the album, we recorded every show and took all the best bits. And he also would do different bits every night

about the city he was in. So we had a separate CD with all those put together. So I was explaining to him what I thought he could do, and he said, why don't you produce it and come with us on the road? And I said, yes, please. Robin and his wife, Marsha, who helped very much put that together.

How does one produce a comedy album? Well, in this case, it really was a question of note-taking primarily, remembering where all the best bits were. You guys won Grammys. You won Grammys. We won a Grammy. We won Best Comedy Album.

Not one I counted on winning. Congratulations. And then Steve Martin was different because Steve also is a friend. And I was having dinner with him here in New York. And he was telling me about this stuff that he was working out with Edie Prickell. He'd written some banjo melodies. He'd given them to her. She'd written these amazing songs kind of on top of them.

He thought that she was just going to put lyrics to the banjo melody instead of which she wrote a whole counter melody. It was brilliant. And I heard those over dinner at Steve's house. And again, we were talking about, I said, you know, these are really good. You should make an album. And here's how I think you could do it. So it wasn't strictly a bluegrass album,

but make it a little more adventurous than that. Put some other instruments in it, and real strings, and not just a fiddle, and so on. And the same thing kind of happened. I was actually on the plane home the next day that Steve emailed me on the plane and said, do you want to produce the record? And I said yes.

So basically I'm always out hustling for work. You are. That's what it comes down to. You're the busiest person we've ever had on this show. I was looking at your website. I did those two Stephen Eadie albums. And then, of course, they turned that into a Broadway show, Bright Star, which is a rhythm show. Which ran on Broadway for a while.

Not long enough to officially be a hit. But we did a hundred and some shows. And it's opening in L.A. this fall at the Arvidsson. So I was music supervisor for the show and then I produced the cast album which we were nominated

for Tonys and Grammys and all that stuff which was exciting so it was fun you have your hands in everything I do I work with Hans Zimmer a lot

yeah you're doing movie music yeah so yeah I like to keep busy I'm not going to take up golf and move to Florida or anything just a couple of last questions Peter we know you got to go and you've been So, yeah, I like to keep busy. I'm not going to take up golf and move to Florida or anything.

Just a couple of last questions, Peter. We know you've got to go, and you've been such a sport. Oh, it's a pleasure. And just filled with information. In addition to recommending those Ronstadt albums, I'm going to tell our listeners, too, to get those James Taylor albums, for God's sake. I mean, they're wonderful. Gorilla, JT, In the Pocket, Walking Man.

They're all wonderful. And you get to hear everybody on them. I mean, Paul and Linda McCartney show up, Art Garfunkel's on there, David Crosby, Graham Nash, everybody. Yep, it's true. It's true. And I will plug my shows with Albert, if I may. We're doing a bunch of shows with Albert Lee

here on the East Coast, starting with The Cutting Room this Sunday. But, yeah, do come if you can. And Celebrity Biography. And I'm doing the Celebrity Biography thing, which is keeping my acting career going. Because that's, you know, my acting career does every now and then pop up again. I did a film. I had a small role in a film called darson bernard i don't

know if anybody's so no who's in that it's an hbo movie okay um my friend bob balaban oh yes who i'm actually having dinner with tonight oh um directed it and um and there i am again hustling for work we're big fans and they did this great movie about doris duke you know um susan sarandon played doris duke Ralph Fiennes played the butler who has this peculiar confusing relationship with her throughout the whole movie. In order for Ralph Fiennes to get the job the old butler has to get fired.

So I was the old butler in pages one, two and three serving Susan Sarandon her watermelon at the wrong temperature for breakfast then getting fired. I was just... Without me, Ralph Fiennes couldn't have got anywhere. And you were in the

Rutles movie, I'd also like to point out. I'm in the second Rutles movie. Yes, Eric Idle is a dear friend and a genius. And the great Neil Innes. Yes, and Neil Innes. We have to ask you this real quick. Gil, you have anything else? No.

Maybe we let this man get on with his life, and maybe he'll take us out. He'll be kind enough to take us out with a song. First of all, Faust, the Randy Newman project, is another masterpiece. Oh, thank you. So you have my admiration. Thank you. That was fun to do. That was fun to do.

We had James Taylor. Oh, Elton's on there. Don Henley, Elton John, Linda Ronset, Bonnie Raitt. Everybody, get that one, too. Yeah, that's a good one. So, and just the last thing, that's the 50th anniversary of Sgt. Pepper, so we'd be remiss in not just asking you about it.

I mean, even if it's just... Well, I remember visiting the studio a couple of times, so I'd heard little bits, but not much. I mean, I wasn't in the studio hardly at all. I mean, people, I think, if everyone who says they were at a Beatles session was actually there, it would have been as big as the Albert Hall.

But what I did do was hear the whole thing when it was finished. I remember distinctly when Paul brought home a metal lacquer, you know, they just assembled it all and put it together for the first time and played it. It was just in our dining room at home

on an ordinary old record player, you know, the guy with the lid. And it sounded amazing. Just the mono lacquer straight from the studio. And I was blown away. I realized that albums were never going to be the same again. Never going to be the same. We were talking about that, I think, on PBS recently, the making of Sgt. Pepper.

There was a great special on PBS. Yes. Wonderful, with a musicologist. Yes. Who really takes you through the... How impossible it was to do that then. Yeah, because it was all four track. I mean, the technology was

fascinating. I could go on about that for hours too. But, yeah, no, that's interesting. I've been working with Apple Records, you know, that Apple, quite a bit lately. Indeed, I also have a radio show now. Tell us about that. I have a radio show every Thursday night at 8pm on the Sirius XM, on the

new Beatles channel. They gave me a asked me if I could do an hour show once a week and I get to play pretty much whatever I want because it's supposed to be Beatle related. Right, of course. But once you include everything that influenced the Beatles and everyone they influenced. It's a wide net. That's everybody. Right, right. So I try to like

this tell a story, a thread that goes through it all, and include some cool music that people might not have heard. That's Thursday nights at 8. Thursday nights at 8. Where can they get that? Sirius XM. Sirius XM. On the Beatles channel.

Okay, that's great. Now I'm going to listen to that for sure. Go ahead, Gil. No, I had just heard that the Beatles, they had like sort of a rivalry, creative rivalry with the Beach Boys. They did.

I mean, they both, I think they both realized, I can't remember what the order is anymore, but was it Sgt. Pepper, then Pet Sounds? No, I think Pet Sounds

came out when the Beatles heard that. Pet Sounds is first, but they're both. Maybe so. So, you know, one way or the other, you know, Pet Sounds maybe inspired Sgt. Pepper and then first. Yeah, maybe so. So, yeah, one way or the other, you know,

Pet Sounds maybe inspired Sgt. Pepper and then these boys, you know, but I think it was definitely the case of somebody doing something brilliant

and their big rival's going, oh shit, you know, how are we going to beat that? And so, you know, and it was an amiable musical competition. Absolutely. And just, you know,

everyone trying to be better than everybody else, which is what show business is all about. Because I think McCartney had heard pitch sounds. You could be right. And he couldn't believe it. Yeah, I don't remember that specifically as an experience of mine, but certainly I know that took place and we've all read about it.

And the last thing I want to ask you, and we'll throw the plugs in again at the end, but you've been asked this before. Did you know that this music was going to have the permanence that it's had, the lasting effect that it's had? Was there any way to know? No, I don't think, I didn't really think about it. I mean, as I said, the perception at the time was being a pop star is an extremely short, ephemeral career. Because nobody took the music seriously. The record companies certainly didn't.

I mean, EMI looked down their noses at it. You know, they took their classical music seriously and their radar business seriously more than pop music. But no, and that's why, you know, the Times of London music critic wrote that, you know, life-changing review of The Beatles where he took the music seriously and reviewed it as music and said it was brilliant.

And that was kind of the beginning where he took the music seriously and reviewed it as music and said it was brilliant and That was kind of the beginning of a total change of attitude and now classical musicians jazz musicians and rock and roll musicians Are all thought of in this respective fields as equals and but before that You know the jazz guys and the classical guys to look down their noses at everything pop As if they as if oh I could do that if I want to do but of course they couldn't right, you know Right, right, right. They're each of them a very particular art, so now pop music's given the respect it's due. Great.

We know you've got to fly. Do you have time to do one more with him? Sure. Ha, ha, ha. Seventeen, a beauty queen She made a ride That caused a scene Her long blonde hair Hanging down around her knees All the cats who dig striptease

Praying for a little breeze Her long blonde hair Falling down across her arms Hiding all the ladies' charms Hey, hey, hey, take it away, there you go Lady Godiva She found fame and made her name A Hollywood director came into town

And said to her How'd you like to be a star? You're a girl who could go far Especially dressed the way you are She smiled at him Gave her pretty head a shake. That was Lady G's mistake. Hey, hey, hey, take it away, Lady Godiva.

He directs certificates, and people now are craning in ecstasy Cause she's a star One that everybody knows Finished with the striptease shows Now she can't afford her clothes Her long blonde hair Is lying on the barber's floor. She doesn't need it anymore. Hey, baby.

Long one for the end. Lady Godiva. Godiva. I can die now. Terrific. Very good. Peter, thank you. Never sounded bad. Thank you.

Give us the plugs again. If you look on peterashamusic.com, there's a whole itinerary. We'll send people. Come to a show if you can. Because the nice thing about playing small plays is I get to say hello to everyone afterwards and hang out and stuff. So do come and say hi. Well, I'll tell you what.

We're going to put up to the video that our friends have just been taking here. We'll put it up on social media tonight just to get. Absolutely. That should be deeply embarrassing. Yes. So, I'm Gilbert Godfrey. This has been Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been here talking to my fellow Mensa graduate, Peter Asher. I doubt that.

Peter, this was a treat. Thank you very much. You are someone we could talk to for seven hours. Oh, yes. I won't. I can go on forever. Thank you for doing this. Thank you very much.

Okay, pal. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Another love that will be true But they don't listen, they don't seem to care They reach for her but she's not there enough Go to pieces and I wanna hide Go to pieces and I almost die every time My baby passes by I remember what she said when she said goodbye

Baby, we'll meet again soon maybe But until we do All my best to you. I'm so lonely, think about her only. I go to places we used to go, but I know she'll never show. She hurt me so much inside, now I hope she's satisfied. Thank you. Bye.