Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 193. Barbara Barrie

Episode Date: February 5, 2018

Oscar and Emmy-nominated actress Barbara Barrie ("Barney Miller," "Breaking Away") sits down with Gilbert and Frank for a look back at her early days in live television and shares her recollections of working with everyone from Tony Randall and Jack Klugman to James Dean and Elizabeth Taylor. Also, Jack Weston gets fresh, Madeline Kahn toughs it out, Richard Mulligan saves the day and Barbara and Art Carney bomb in Chicago. PLUS: "Shock Corridor"! The original Alice Kramden! The comic genius of Danny Arnold! Robert Duvall enters "The Twilight Zone"! And Gilbert (once again) roasts the late, great Abe Vigoda! This episode is brought to you by Leesa (www.leesa.com/GILBERT) and SeatGeek (Download SeatGeek app and enter promo code: GILBERT). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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At Miele, our partner is the planet. Until June 30th, every Mila dishwasher purchased supports the planting and preservation of Canadian forests through the Mila Forest Initiative. Join us in making an impact today for a better tomorrow. Visit mila.ca to learn more. This is Marion Ross. You're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast.

Beautiful. Is that it? It's not even in there. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa. actress with dozens of TV, film, and theater credits, including the Broadway and Off-Broadway plays Company, Torch Song Trilogy, California Suite, Twelfth Night, The Crucible, and The Prisoner of Second Avenue, among others. Prisoner of Second Avenue, among others. Memorable films include Giant, One Potato, Two Potato, Private Benjamin, Hercules, Judy Berlin, and Breaking Away, for which she was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress.

You've also seen her in a number of popular TV series, including The Twilight Zone, The Fugitive, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Family Ties, 30-Something, Suddenly Susan, Nurse Jackie, Suddenly Susan, Nurse Jackie, and of course as Captain Miller's trusty Eastwood, Goldie Hawn, and James Dean, as well as former podcast guests Paul Dooley, Lee Grant, Hal Linden, and Jessica Walter. She's the winner of an Obie Award, a Drama Desk Award, the Cannes Film Festival Best Actress Award, and she's also the author of two young adult novels and a memoir. And if all that wasn't enough, she also created her own original spicy chutney called Tomato Lightning.

called Tomato Lightning. And she better give me a free jar after this long and flattering introduction. Please welcome to the show a woman far too talented and dignified to have anything to do with this podcast, Barbara Barry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

What about this chutney, Barbara? It was really a fantastic product. I'm not kidding. Yeah? It was so good. You don't still do it? You don't do it anymore? No, because the fancy food industry is the hardest industry in the world.

Okay. We struggled with it for, I don't know, maybe four or five years. Somebody bought it, then somebody else bought it. We went to Philadelphia to literally put it in the jars ourselves. I went to fancy food shows. It's a terrible industry, and it was a great product. People, even now, say I remember it. And I'll tell you, the recipe. The original recipe came from Madhur

Jaffrey. Do you know who that is? Madhur Jaffrey is an Indian actress. You would know if you saw her and a cookbook writer. And her cooking show on the BBC was the most famous, most well viewed cooking show ever on the BBC. Anyway, it was her original recipe and I tweaked it, but I got her permission, you know. And it was a real—it was just a marvelous thing. But, like, we just couldn't make it work. No chutney for you, Gil. No chutney. Do you eat chutney?

No, not that much. So you'll have to get me a jar of anything else. Peanut butter. Go down to Calustown. They have everything. Now we have to get to the most important part of this show. Frank hinted that you might be Jewish. I'm Jewish.

Definitely Jewish. Okay, that's important. He gets very excited when Jewish guests come on to the show. I'm surprised you didn't know that. Yeah. That I was Jewish. Well, you changed your name. Oh, that's right. I changed my name.

I usually know. Because we're so, my kids went to Hebrew school here. They went to synagogue school. And we're very active in the Jewish community. Just like you, Gil. Yes. He's a good Jew. All too often we have these fucking

guineas on this show. He gets resentful when I bring in Italian guests. I think you've got me greatly outnumbered so far. 180 shows. Joe Pantoliano and what? It's hard to find Jews in

showbiz. Very hard. Yes, very hard. Yes, it is. Now, you worked with, you did a pilot with someone whose name has come up more than once on this show, Herb Edelman. Yeah. What was it like working with Herb Edelman? it like working with Herb Edelman? Well, he was a darling man,

you know, and he was so eager to be the leader of that band, I mean, that particular project. Koska and His Family, the show was called. And he was also a terribly heavy smoker and that's what he died of.

Oh, I didn't know that. But a darling man, And I remember saying, he was very busy, you know, giving presents to the crew and being nice to them. I said, Herb, you know, we've got to work on this material. You've got to stop giving presents to the crew.

He was so eager to be. And he was. Everybody loved him. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, years later, one of my very best friends went out with him for years and years and years and adored him.

I won't tell you who that is. Oh, that's nice. She's married to somebody else. But she adored him. He was a darling guy and he's a good actor. He was a good actor. The original Murray the Cop. Yes.

In the couple movie. Yeah. Yeah. And then you worked with him again because he was in California Suite. But not in the one I was in. Oh, okay. I did it on Broadway, and he must have done it later. Did he do it later?

Funny guy. There were only four people in that, you know. Yeah. On Broadway, it was Jack Weston, George Grisard, Tammy Grimes, and me. Right. Just four people. I think he was in the movie. He might have been in the movie. I think you're right. Yeah. Right. Just four people. I think he was in the movie. He might have been in the movie.

Yeah, I think you're right. He was in the movie. I think he was in the movie, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. What about Jack Weston, since you're bringing up names, people we love and love to talk about on this show? Well, he was a ribbled guy. Ribbled, huh?

Like Gilbert is. Oh, my God. I can't even repeat to you what he did. He liked an off-color remark. Oh, my God. I can't even repeat to you what he did. He liked an off-color remark. Oh, remark. Listen, if he were alive today, he would be in the newspaper. Oh, I see. Very naughty.

I see where you're headed with that. Very naughty. Interesting. But as Joy Behar says, you know. Yeah. Very naughty. But as Joy Behar says, you know, every time he'd make some stupid move, I'd say, oh, get off me. Forget it, Jack.

Forget it. Barbara is a Joy fan, as I learned on our ride over here. Yeah, she goes way back with Gilbert. How long have you known Joy from the clubs? Oh, God, yeah. Long time. Yeah. You're going to promise me to say hello to her. I sure will. Absolutely. So, go ahead, Gil.

And among other shows you did, one that was, you know, one of my favorites as a kid was The Fugitive. You know, I think I did an episode of it. You did? I have no idea what it was. Really?

You didn't hold on to that from 60 years ago? I don't even remember. I know I did it, but I have no idea what happened or who was in it or who... David Jansen, well, of course, the star. Oh, David Jansen. And he died young, the poor thing. Yeah, he died young. Do you remember anything about David Jansen?

No. I don't remember one thing about it, except I see it on my credits. How about The Untouchables? Do you remember doing that David Chan? No. I don't remember one thing about it, except I see it on my credits. How about The Untouchables? Do you remember doing that with Robert Stack? Kind of. How about Naked City? Oh, well, yeah, because we did a lot of those here. Yeah.

And that was the most fun, the most exciting stuff. We did it on the streets of New York. Wow. And Herb Leonard, who produced that series, literally used to call me up and say, guess what, we're picking you up in the morning. You're going to San Antonio. I'd say, what am I doing? Never mind.

Just get on the plane. He did Route 66 and he did Naked City. Right. And he would call and say, Barbara, we're going to report tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock for costume fitting. For what am I doing? He said, you're doing the next segment. Don't ask. Just go.

I never auditioned for that show. I had the most wonderful experiences with doing that. That was a great show. Do you remember that show, Gil? Naked City? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We used to dress in phone booths.

You know, we used to take her to the next scene. We had no next dress. No trailers? No, trailers. What is this kamikaze television? Trailers. Forget it. But with the good actors and wonderful directors and wonderful scripts.

I think I did three or four of them. And I did one Route 66 with George Maharis. Yep. Which was a great one. I played a blind girl. I think you did. I did. And I had to go in the river in Texas in the coal.

I remember George had to come in and get me because I fell in the river. And then they took us into – they did have a trailer there. And we drank brandy between sets. It was freezing. It was Texas. And we drank brandy between sets. It was freezing. It was Texas.

But Naked City was, I would love to see some of those again because they were really good. Do you remember doing a show called, I mean, you did so much early television. Yeah, I did. Do you remember doing a show called The U.S. Steel Hour? Yeah. I bring it up because Larry Cohen wrote for The U.S. Steel Hour. That was the thing that he did with Henny Youngman. Wow. That he told us about.

I do remember. Do you know where it was? I think it was right here at Studio 8H. 30 Rock? At 30 Rock. Oh, no kidding. Wasn't it an NBC show? A few blocks from here.

I think so. I'll do the research on that. I don't have it written down. We just interviewed Larry. Did you know Larry Cohen? He became a film director. No. A feature director, but he was a writer of live TV shows.

No, I really don't know him. Yeah. You did a bunch of these. Craft Theater. Tell me if anything jogs your memory. I remember all of those. Ponds Theater. Yes.

Craft Theater. Playwrights 56. Yes. I remember all of those. And Decoy and a show called Suspicion that you did with a young Warren Beatty. I don't remember that. But I'll tell you about those early television shows. We did them live.

We didn't. It was not filmed, you know. We did them live. So you were on camera coast to coast. You were live. It was very scary. Yeah. I did a show.

One of those shows with Kim Stanley was a Horton Foote script. Good actress. Oh, yes. Kim Stanley. And we were in 80s. That was the first show Icript. Good actress. Oh, yes. Kim Stanley. We were in 80s. That was the first show I did, I think. No, no, it wasn't. And I remember Kim saying, I'm so scared.

I'm so scared. You know, what if it doesn't happen? What if I can't get there, feel it, make it happen? I said, you will. And of course she did. It was terribly frightening. There was no going back. You didn't do a take again.

Well, that was the story that Larry told us about working with Henny Youngman. He did the same scene over again. He wasn't an actor. He wasn't a trained actor. They were doing a live version of U.S. Steel Hour. Yeah. And he did the same scene twice. And they had to stop him.

And finally he caught himself. But, right, live television. I'm telling you. And then you had to make your entrance on time because if you didn't make your entrance, why are you looking at me like that? No, no. I was going to ask you a question. I wasn't aware I was making a face. She's got your number, Gil.

I was going to say. She's got your number, Jill. I was going to say, and like memorizing all the dialogue. Well, I was 26 years old. That's no big deal. What was scary was that you did it live. There was no retakes. Yeah. And I don't know how we did it.

We were terrified all the time. Do you remember mistakes being made during the show? No, but I do remember that the first show I did, which was a, God knows what it was, but anyway, it was live at Studio 8H and there was a stage manager named Dan O'Connor who was married to a wonderful actress named Lenka Peterson. And I knew Dan and I had never done a live show before. And somehow I got locked out of the studio as they were starting and I couldn't get into the studio and I was in the first scene.

And I remember he opened the door, which, you know, you weren't allowed to go and yanked me into the studio and said, you're on. I was so such a novice. You weren't allowed to go. And yanked me into the studio and said, you're on. I was so such a novice. I didn't know, you know, where the stage door was. But we had been rehearsing for, God, a long time, two, three weeks or something. And that was my first show. And I remember that.

And then I did a soap opera for a long time. Yeah, the doctors and the nurses? No. That wasn't it? No, I did. Oh, Love of Life. Love of Life. Right. And I thought the scene? No. That wasn't it? No, I did. Oh, Love of Life. Love of Life. Right.

And I thought the scene was over, you know, and I thought it wasn't over. In other words, the cameras were still on. They didn't turn them off, and I just started talking about my life or something. On coast-to-coast television. And the actor I was with said to me, oh, the cameras are so on. And he made up, oh my God.

I just started talking about the roast in the oven. Who knows what it was. I'm telling you, those were scary days. And people don't, haven't other people told you that? Yeah, a couple. I'm trying to remember how many actors we've had in here that did live television. I'll have to think about it. Oh've had in here that did live television.

I'll have to think about it. Oh, I did a lot of it. I did a lot of it. Yeah. Joyce Van Patten, I think, did a couple. Lee Grant must have done some live TV. Well, were those the years? I don't know. Yeah.

Well, I mean, do you remember working with any of these people? These are the names I cross-referenced. William Wyndham, Murray Hamilton. Yes, I remember them all. Martin Sheen. Yeah, I played Martin Sheen's mother. Wow. In The Defenders.

Wow. A double Defenders that won an Emmy. E.G. Marshall. Oh, well, oh, I went out with him. Oh, you did? You went out with E.G. Marshall? I was crazy about him. I love it.

I was crazy about him. I love it. Crazy about him. I loved him so much. I was a young girl. Trust me. But he was, of course, I remember all those people. I remember Murray Hamilton very well. We talk about Murray Hamilton all the time on this show. He's a terrific actor.

Yeah. Is he still with us? No, we lost him. No, no, no. We lost him a while back. Most people out there know him as the Mayor in George. Yeah. Yes, exactly. him. No, no, no. We lost him a while back. Most people out there know him as the Mayor in George. Yes, exactly. Larry, the mayor of Shark City.

Really darling guy. Carol O'Connor, it says here, you worked with Peter Falk? Well, Peter I worked with. I don't remember ever doing anything with Carol. Did I do something with Carol? I think so. I'll have to cross-check. Peter, you did a show called The Trials of Obrien oh my god see i remember that show that was a series wasn't it

it was a series yeah he was a lawyer yes and we we got to be friends and we were in an acting group together that somebody formed after that you know a very private acting group and he was just fantastic and then i think he got bored with or something but you know he had a funny attitude about acting did he how so it was just something he did you know i'll just do this thing but well he painted he had other interests he did he was a painter yeah i never knew that till this moment. Yeah. I loved him, too. We all loved him. He would always come to this class in, you know, mismatched shoes and his shirt hanging out. And he just didn't care about any of those things.

But he sure was a good actor. And we shed a few tears. It was very sweet. Tell us about Rip Torn. He's a guy we admire greatly. Well, are you serious? Wait, his work. Yeah. I know he's a bit of a wild man. Or was about Rip Torn. He's a guy we admire greatly. Well, are you serious? Wait, his work. Yeah.

I know he's a bit of a wild man, or was. Was. Yeah. Still with us. He is? Yep. Yep. He was a chiller at the Festival, Gil, when you were signing autographs in Jersey.

What's a chiller? Oh, that's these autographs. It's a celebrity autograph show. And Rip was there. Oh, lately? Two years ago, in Jersey. Yeah. Well, you mean people go and just sign their autographs? Yeah.

Why is it called Chiller? It's mostly horror actors and that kind of stuff. But they mix in people like Gilbert and Rip Torn was there and James Darren. Well, at school he was better than all of us. He was a better actor than anybody could have imagined.

And they didn't like him because he was a rebel. And he was fired from every production, almost every production. We did a lot of Shakespeare at that school. It's a very rich school, and we did six or seven productions a year. We did two of Shakespeare. We did musicals. They always got rid of him because he would say, I don't think we're doing it the right way. And he used to say, I think there's a better way to act than the way we're being taught to act and the way we're acting. And was right he was a clear genius wow he graduated too he managed to graduate but but and he was you know crazy party going yeah yeah he was a wild

child and then some but we were very good friends and i liked him a lot and and we were talking before we went on because i i don't know how it got into it that i i was you know i spoke at ape vagoda's funeral and you kind of roasted him didn't you yeah i roasted him and and it got did you get your laughs as my husband would say did you get your laughs my friend did you get your laughs oh my god yes yeah you got some which. I wish I'd been there. It was great, and it got in all the papers. We're talking about me roasting Abe Vigona. Well, you know, Barbara, the running joke about Abe was that he had died many times. No one could believe that he was still alive.

Didn't he live on the Upper West Side? Upper East? Near me. Oh, yes, yes. Near me on 77 Seconds. I said, this is the 70th time we buried Abe Vigona. What was your connection, the two of you? I just knew him.

Both of us knew Abe. We worked with him at The View, actually. Yeah. On a comedy piece. Oh, really? But you knew him from the Friars Roast. He was always on the dais. He would always be there.

They would have the annual Friars Roast at the Hilton. Yeah, yeah. And Abe was a fixture. He was always at the table, at the dais. He would always be there. They would have the annual fryer's roast at the Hilton. Yeah, yeah. And Abe was a fixture. He was always at the table, at the long table. It's like he wouldn't roast anyone. He'd just be sitting there. And every year,

the comedian Jeff Ross would say, every year he would say, this is a terrible, terrible event. I'm just glad Abe Vigoda is not alive to see this. And Abe, of course, would be sitting there. Remember?

Abe would get up and shake a fist on cue. Now, you said he kind of got a star attitude on Barney Miller. Barney Miller. Hal was not too pleased about that. And then he got his own show, you know. Yes, Fish. Yeah. And I think one of the ways he got his own show, they wanted to get him off that set. You don't think of him as a guy with an ego.

No. Isn't that funny? Well, we know him as a much older man. Well, let me tell you, he had an ego. No! Isn't that funny? Well, we know him as a much older man. Well, let me tell you, he had an ego. He was very, I mean, he didn't upset anybody. You know, he would just

be a little demanding and a little bit grumpy and not, he would say, why don't I have more lines and stuff like that. I mean, he just, once he got all that attention, he was off and running,

I'm telling you. And Hal had nothing but lovely things to say about him when he was here with us. Well, I'm sure Hal feels that way. Except that there was only room for one star on that show. And the one star was Hal. And I must say, my husband used to say, he looks like he's not doing very much, but he's holding the whole thing together. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

He was so good. Hal said that Abe Fagota kicked his ass at handball. Abe was apparently an athlete. He was a runner. I didn't know that. He was a handball player. I didn't know that. He was an accomplished handball player.

Yeah. I didn't know it. What about some of the other actors on that show? I mean, you were not in a lot of the station house scenes. You were in the home scenes. Well, that was the problem. They eliminated the home. Right. And so then I had to keep coming to the station all the time.

Right. Which got very tedious. And I kept saying to Danny Arnold, this is not working. You know, women work now. That's another story. Anyway, what did you just ask me? What about, we just love to know about Jack Sue or James Gregory or some of those other actors. Jack was so original and so sweet. You know, he just would roll, stuff would just roll over him.

I mean, he just did his job. That's what Jack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was glad to have that job too. But God, and you know, Danny knew all these people, a lot of them from the Catskills. Right, right. And I don't know how he found Abe, but. I think Abe just auditioned.

Oh, maybe. I think Abe had done The Godfather at that point. Maybe. They were all just Max. Max Gale. A wonderful, sweet darling. There was nobody on that show who wasn't really. We all got along extremely well, really extremely well.

And Hal said that Jack Su was actually Japanese. But, you know, he was like, you know, he was worried about anti-Japanese feeling in the country. So he picked like a Chinese sounding name. Oh, I had no idea. That's interesting. I don't remember that. I had no idea. That's really interesting.

Yeah. No, I didn't know that. But, yeah, that was a great like kind of repertory company. Well, and I'll tell you something else. Danny Arnold, who produced it, was from the Catskills, you know, from Vaudeville. He was so smart. Yeah, he was a comedy genius, really. Comedy genius.

And he was so funny. And we would get pages one at a time during the week. We'd get one page at a time. We had no idea where the script was going. And we would get coffee. We'd talk. We'd talk on the phone. And we didn't have cell phones.

But, you know, we'd go. And we'd say, finally, we'd get a full script. And maybe we'd have a day and a half to run through the whole script, to rehearse it, to work on it. Then the audience, the day that the audience would come in, Danny would come down in the morning and redo the entire show. Wow. And he'd say, you're going to do this and you're going to do this and we're not going to say that. He actually wrote every script. He rewrote everything.

Wow. And he would say things like, you know, you want to get this laugh? This is how you do it. And don't turn around when you say that. And I'm taking that line away from you and you're going to – I'm giving it to you. And we would go, Danny, the audience is coming in. And that's what he did every week. But he was incredibly smart.

And so funny. He knew about comedy. He was a comedy genius. I think he was, yeah. He knew every detail. Every detail. And he wrote every – I mean, you'd turn in your script. I knew a lot of those writers.

You'd turn in your script. He'd say, this is great. We'll work on it this week. The writer would work, work, work, work, work, and we'd get the pages. He would come down. He'd change the whole thing. He did it every week. On the fly.

That's a real talent. Oh, he was a powerhouse. People still recognize you for Barney Miller? Oh, yeah. I heard you say people yell out of buses and things. Oh, they do. Truck drivers say, Mrs. Miller! Mrs. Miller! Mrs. Miller! But, you know,

I left the show because he wouldn't give me a job. I know. And it got boring. And I didn't leave on my own. I really kind of just got written out. On the subject of 70 sitcoms, too, I want to talk about quickly about that Mary Tyler Moore episode where you play. Now, Gil, do you remember this, where Murray considers having an affair with a woman who's selling a piano? Oh, yes. And he had never had an affair before. He'd never had an affair. Yeah, the episode was called I Love a Piano. Yeah, it got very famous.

Yes. I don't know why. You were very seductive in that episode, if I may say. Yes. I don't know. We just did it. And when I first got the script, I thought, this will be fun. You know, I didn't read for it. And I thought, oh, I think I like to do this.

And every man on that show was crazy about me. By the last week, they had all been taken away. It was only Murray. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And he was a little tenuous about it, too, as an actor, you know. Gavin McLeod. Yeah.

And we did it. It seemed fine to me. And every time I'd meet somebody, they'd say, I remember that piano show. Sure. I just watched it. But what is it about it that makes it memorable? Well, it's interesting. Well, there was a different side of that character, I think.

And they didn't give Murray a lot of solo episodes for one thing. So it was different. Originally, it's Georgette, your Georgette's friend. Yeah. And she's trying to fix Barbara's character up with Lou. Yeah. But Lou's dating somebody. Yeah.

Sherry North, I think. And so Murray gravitates toward Barbara's character. And you were fun together. Those are fun actors anyway. You worked with Ed again on Lou Grant. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did.

But I didn't know Gavin at all. I had never met him. Mm-hmm. But it's funny. He's born again now, by the way. He is? Yeah. Yeah.

Where is he? What's he doing? He's in Los Angeles, but the way. He is? Yeah. Where is he? What's he doing? He's in Los Angeles, but he's a devout Christian. Really? Mm-hmm. Wasn't he then? Make what you will of that. I don't know.

Was he then, Gil? Why? Gavin McLeod? I don't think so. I think it was a later in life kind of thing. Interesting. Because he was a little embarrassed about that whole thing. Although maybe he was just acting.

You know, he was, I don't know. But I remember, as a matter of fact, I do remember the director was Jay. Jay Sandrich. Jay Sandrich. Still with us. I worked with him so many times. He's a legend. And when the piano didn't sell, I think we didn't sell it.

I didn't sell it. When the piano didn't sell, I think we didn't sell it. I didn't sell it. I said to Jay, I think after all of this kind of courtship that he should say thank you. You know, it's nice to know you. So Jay said, really? I said, yeah, you're having to just mistreat me and walk out the door. And they changed it.

Yeah. Well, you kissed him. Yeah. You kissed him. And then he's singing Strangers in the Night. I don't remember. Jay Sanders was a really good director. Oh, he's still with us.

And you were in Giant. Yeah, but for one second. Oh. If you bent down to pick up your popcorn, you'd miss me. It was a... I was still in college. So were you wide-eyed?

I mean, you're working here with the great George Stevens. Was it like, what am I doing here? A little bit of that? Well, yeah. I mean, I wasn't in college. I was just out of college, just out of college. It just was one of those things that he needed somebody from Texas, and he needed somebody with an accent, which I had at that time.

And so he called, evidently, I was seeing another actor at that time, which should be nameless, and he called that actor, that actor's agent, and said, I just came up in the conversation, and my boyfriend said, I'm going with a girl who's from Texas. So he said, send her over. And I went over and I met George Stevens. And he said, you want to do this part? I said, it's like six lines, you know. I said, sure, why not? I mean, I was just hanging out in California with my boyfriend. I said, sure.

And I did it. And it went on and on for weeks and weeks, too boring to go into it because James Dean was difficult and they couldn't shoot. Always late, wasn't he? Always late. But the one thing that I remember is that I had two lines in the funeral scene, and whatever the line was, I say to Elizabeth Taylor, and it's the wrong thing to say, and George Stevens said to me, when you say that line, think to yourself, I'd like to bite my tongue off. That's what he said to me. Wow. And I did it.

And boy, was he right. Was he a good director and such a great man, you know, great man. And I remember here was this little actress from nowhere, right? And he was very specific with me. And if you see it on screen. I'm going to watch it now. I've seen the movie, but I don't remember the scene. I go, because he said,

just wish you could bite your tongue off. That's very specific. And that was a very fraught set, you know, because James Dean was always late. And we sat around and sat. Do you know why? Just a tortured soul? Well, he was out riding his motorcycle.

I mean, he just, he was a rebel. He was a rebel without a cause. He really was. And he would come late, and George even stopped speaking to him. Yes, I'd heard that. And he said, I will not direct him anymore. I will do it through, you know, the AD or the second director. He was so rude.

Wow. He was so rude. I guess you're right. I think he was tortured. Nobody would behave like that unless... Yeah, I think he drank and everything. I don't know any of those. He burned out pretty quickly.

Yeah, I just know that we waited and then Rock Hudson had to go finish another movie, which I'll never forget. It was called Autumn Leaves. And so we had to wait for him to come back. And we got paid for waiting. I thought, boy, I'm in the right business, you know. I just got out of college.

I'm getting paid to do nothing. Well, tell us. We were talking about it before, and I'm trying to get clear on this because I was doing a lot of research, but I couldn't figure this out. You really only came to New York because you were following a guy? Your boyfriend at the time? You really didn't have any grand designs on becoming an actress? No, the faculty at the university did. They said, you're going to be an actress. I said, I don't think so. I did a lot of wonderful work there, but I know I was in love with this guy who was from Texas, and we had gone together for at least two or three years and

he came to New York and I missed him and I thought I have to you know I have to be with him I had very good skills I had shorthand and typing I knew I could earn a living but I wasn't seeking to act I wanted to be with him and he by the time I got here he was already in a Broadway show called The Remarkable Mr. Pennypecker well now we're going to look that up

and figure out who it is John Rhys I'll tell you John Rhys John Rhys Rhys like Rhys' Peter but he's no longer with us

oh I'm sorry and yeah I came to be with him we lived together in those days when people didn't really do that so I had to keep it

secret from my mother. And that's another two. Were you working at the Russian Tea Room at one point? That was later. Okay. Later. And according to this, you would have worked with Rock Hudson twice. Oh, you worked on Macmillan and Wife.

I did. He was adorable. Yeah. Yeah, because then I really had a part, you know? Yeah. And he was so darling, such a sweet man. Made you feel that you were so welcome on his sets. And he was just a remarkable man.

That's nice to hear. Really. And now while Gilbert heads into the nutmeg kitchen to steal more Perrier, a word from our sponsor. Favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone.

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Of course. He's going to know the theme song from Greetings. A movie that hasn't been seen by anybody in 40 years. Greetings, greetings, greetings. We would like a word with you. Greetings, greetings, greetings. Spend a day or two with Uncle. Spend a day or two with Uncle.

Spend a day or two with Uncle Sam a day or two with Uncle Sam. Exactly. Can you confirm that this was the theme song from Greetings? I feel like we need to lift that clip and send it to the University of Texas. It's Gil and Frank, colossal obsessions.

It's Gil and Frank, exotic possessions. It's Gil and Frank, your deepest confessions to Gil and Frank's It's not a possession It's Gil and Frank Your deepest confessions To Gil and Frank They now control you So give up Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions

Every Thursday, only on Stitcher Premium It's Frank and Gilbert time Yes, yes, it's Frank and Gilbert time It's Frank and Gilbert It's Frank and Gilbert time it's Frank and Gilbert time. It's Frank and Gilbert time. It's Frank and Gilbert time. Now, unfortunately, we return to our show. Tell us about another early role doing The Twilight Zone with Robert Duvall.

Now, was that the one with the dolls? Yes, the miniature. It's called Miniature. It's in the museum. Correct. How do you remember that? Everybody remembers that show. Yeah.

And, you know, oddly enough, that was one that was left out of the syndication package. Wow. For legal reasons, because some other writer claimed authorship of that story. Oh. Of that episode. But Barbara played his sister. I played his sister. Very young Robert Duvall.

Very. We were living on the same street in Hollywood, actually. We were neighbors. And I knew him from acting class. And, you know, I just adored him. And it was a job. I mean, it was a good script. It was a job.

And we did it. And people talk about it to this day. Yeah. I think there's something. It's a good one. Well, first of all, he was so good even then, you know. And secondly, it was these little dolls. And I think in the end, he's in the case.

He ends up as one of the dolls in the dollhouse. He ends up as one of the dolls, yeah. Not to spoil it for people who haven't seen it. It's like you do something, you think, okay, I've done it now. I've really worked on it. Here's my check. I paid my rent. And then suddenly you realize it's become kind of a cult show.

That's a pinch me thing, isn't it? Right? For you, it was young actress, just a job. Yeah. On to the next job. I had to pay the rent. And all these years later, we're talking about it and people are talking about it. I had to pay the rent.

Did you meet Rod Serling? No. Okay. No, but you know what? When I did that show, I was living on the street in Hollywood. Bobby Duvall was down the street. I was living in the house of the silver-haired commentator on CNN. What's his name?

The new guy? Anderson Cooper? Anderson Cooper. I was living in his father's house. Oh, wow. I rented that house for $100 a month. And I said to him, his name was Wyatt Cooper. And I had met him.

I said, why are you renting your house? He said, I'm going to New York. And I said, why? He said, I'm in love with Gloria Vanderbilt, and I'm going to marry her. How about that? So every time you see Anderson Cooper on CNN now. Well, I actually stopped him on the street one day. You did? I don't think he was too thrilled about it. Oh, really? I said, I knew your father very well, and I lived in his little house on

Hancock Street. He listened. He was nice, you know, and I knew his mother really well because when she was pregnant with him, Gloria, I met her at the Westport Country Playhouse one night. We were both in the audience. She said, Barbara, you've got to get pregnant. I'm pregnant as heaven. And that was, she was pregnant with him. I love that. You know, I saw you on a Crosstown bus about five years ago on the 72 bus, long before we ever started this show. And I said, I really admire her, but I'm not going to bother her. Oh, I wish you had. And now here you are. I wish you had.

Isn't that funny how life works out? Yeah, I take that bus all the time. I love that bus. I texted my wife. I said, Barbara Barry's on the bus, and I want to approach her. But she said, leave the woman be. Oh, that's so nice. I wish you had.

Yeah. And you did. Oh, I just remembered. John, now. John Randolph, you know. Yeah, I think. Played Bob Newhart's father. No, I know John Randolph.

Yeah. Certainly. He's been in a trillion movies. Yeah. The bad King Kong he's in. He was in Seconds. Yes, the Frankenheimer picture, yeah. You guys remember everything.

We're freaks. Yeah. We're freaks, Barbara. Yeah, we know stuff that you shouldn't know. I want to say one more thing about that Twilight Zone episode. The original Alice Cramden was in that episode with you. Pert Kelton.

Yes. Wow. You're right. There's more trivia. And then she would pop in as Alice's mother. Pert Kelton. And William Wyndham

is in that episode playing the shrink. I remember him too very well. And then going from Twilight Zone to the Alfred Hitchcock hour. I did a few of those. Yeah, I think you did too. I did one where I played a hugely fat woman, like 600 pounds, who was used for breeding. And you did one with Bradford Dillman and Dabney Coleman called Isabel. Yeah, I don't remember. And you did one with aford Dillman and Dabney Coleman. Oh, jeez. Called Isabel. Yeah, I don't remember that.

And you did one with a British actress, Gladys Cooper, from My Fair Lady. I remember her because she was a legend, you know. Yeah. And she was where I am now. She was having trouble with lines. And I thought at the time, why, just because you get older, why do you, you can remember lines. What is that? I was very impatient with her.

Guess what? Guess who you can remember lines. I was very impatient with her. Guess what? Guess who can't remember lines? Now, did you work with Hitchcock? No. He never came on the set. I never saw him. But they used to just call me up and ask me to do those things. I mean, I tell you, I never auditioned.

First of all, I'm the world's worst auditioner. The worst. Another one. So we always ask actors who come in here, do you hate auditioning? Are you good at it? Are you bad at it? Gilbert hates it. Yeah. I'm terrible. The only job I ever got was the wooden dish. Through an audition? The only one. At a certain point in your career, you were established enough that they must have been giving you parts. Some people still say, will she come in? And I say, no, because I know how bad I am. Interesting.

Terrible. It's embarrassing. Why? Because you're a bad cold reader? instead of just doing the work, you know, and letting it go. And I just finally said, oh, I guess maybe God. 20 years ago, as long as I've been in this apartment, I said I'm not auditioning ever because I don't get the job. So that's how I got Breaking Away. You know, I just walked in to see Peter. He asked to see me through my agent, and I walked in to 20th Century Fox.

That's my two little children in the waiting room outside. It was such a sudden call. And he said, okay, the part is yours. What had he seen you in? I have no idea. We talked about Peter Yates on this show. He directed Bullet. Oh, and Hot Rock.

And the Hot Rock with your friend Ron Liebman. Yes, right. Well, I mean, and I said, well, don't you want to meet anybody else? He said, no, no. You're the one I want. And I never, I didn't even see this. I read the script the night before because my agent sent it to me in California. I just arrived on the plane with my children. My husband was in New York. He said, you got to be at 20th Century Fox at 10 in the morning. You know, what do I do with my kids? I took them and I walked in and he would talk with me. He

said, okay, part is yours. I said, well, maybe you'll find somebody you like better. I mean, I couldn't get over it. And then you made him. I know why he cast me. Why? I look just like Dennis Christopher. Oh, there was a likeness with Dennis Christopher.

Yeah, I never thought of that. And I guess both of us were voices in Disney films. That's right. In Hercules? No, you were in Hercules. I was in Aladdin. I was the parrot. Oh, that's right.

I was in Hercules, and I've never seen it. No. You've never seen it? Wow. Interesting. I just. What about your grandchildren? They've seen it, but I mean, I just never got around to seeing it.

I don't know why. Isn't that terrible? Yeah. People really write me about that. Really? They send me those cards, you know, that are pictures. They're going to write you again after they hear this. I hope so.

We loved you in her case. Why don't you watch it? I never saw it. Interesting. Interesting. Would you watch Aladdin if not for Lily and Max? Would you have seen it so many times if you don't have kids? Yeah, it's so funny. I mean, I watched a bunch of times before I had kids. And then after I had kids, it got to this point because kids watch the same thing over and over and over. How old are your kids?

Eight and ten. Oh, they're little. Yeah. You have little guys. Yeah. I was much younger when we started this. I never thought one day I'd walk into a living room where Aladdin is playing and go,

Hey, could you turn that crap off? You don't want to hear your own voice coming out of the television? Is it a girl and a boy, Gilbert? Yes. Oh, God. And they've seen Hercules and you haven't. No, I haven't seen it. Wow.

I don't want to jump off breaking away just yet because you also did The Seer. We talked about Paul Dooley. We had Paul here on the show. And you guys are very funny in that movie. You're a funny duo. I love when he says, what are we going to do with that kid? And you say, well, we could always strangle him while he's asleep. Well, that's in the script.

I know, but you're very funny. The script was very good. It won an Oscar. A very American movie, ironically directed by a Brit and written by a guy from Yugoslavia. How interesting. But you did the series with Vinnie Gardena. In Georgia, yeah. Who we also love. Yes. Mm-hmm. But you did the series with Vinnie Gardenia. In Georgia, yeah. But we also love.

Yes. Vincent Gardenia. How is Vincent Gardenia to work? Oh, wonderful. We were friends for a long time. God, we love his work. I think I did something else with him before that series, and we knew each other. We were in Georgia, and it was, you know, very fun, bucolic.

But as I said, the network changed hands. Some people came in, some people didn't until they got rid of us. You know, it wasn't their show. So they said, okay, you're done. We said, we're done? I had rented a house. My kids were coming down to visit with my husband. They said, yeah, we're wrapping.

You're going to leave in three days. So we left. That was the end of it. Sean Cassidy was good in that show. And I thought that show had legs. I thought it was going to survive. So did we. So did we.

Yeah. It was smart. And the rare series that's faithful to the movie that doesn't kind of sell out the integrity of the movie. Exactly. And we just talked to each other. There wasn't a lot of acting going on, you know. It was a very well-done series. But they got rid of us.

Tell Gilbert about not winning the Oscar, which you told me in the car. It's kind of fun. Oh, I knew I wasn't going to win the Oscar because I was up against Meryl Streep. And so at the ceremony, they did send me,

send us all out there in great style. It was great fun. My son was about seven or eight, seven, and tiny at that point. And I said to him right before I was done, as I leaned down, I said, Now, Aaron, I'm not going to win. Don't be upset. And that's on YouTube. You see me leaning down and saying, Don't be upset because I didn't win.

Then we went to the banquet banquet and he was so upset. My daughter was fine, but he was so upset that he passed out and fell into his plate. He just passed out. From stress. Stress and grief. My God, I love that. Now, that was a kid that was destined to be in show business. Well, he's in show business.

My husband picked him up. We were staying at a lovely hotel in Westwood near where they had the banquet. My husband picked him up and took him home. That was the end of that. But you can see it on YouTube. You can see him like this, you know, and I'm bending down. Lost. Because they do the isolated shots on the nominees, right?

I don't know how they did it. I was saying to Barbara in the car over here, you know, Meryl Streep for Kramer vs. Kramer, that was a lead role. They never should have put her in the supporting actress category. Well, I don't want to talk about that. Okay. Do you want to put down Meryl Streep? No, I think she's fantastic. I just don't want to talk about that episode.

And you were in a movie, The Caretakers. Yeah, with Joan Crawford and Molly Bergen. And Robert Stack. And Robert Stack. Yeah. But you, go ahead. How did you prepare for that? It's an interesting question.

Did you ask that on purpose? He's working with Cukarn. Do you have that on the paper He's working with Cucard now. Do you have that on the paper? Yes. You have it? Yes. Oh. No, just not by some weird coincidence.

I went into a hospital. I got committed to a hospital. An asylum. An asylum. Yeah. In California, in not Stockton, but out of the valley somewhere. A very famous mental hospital in California. The producer got me in so that I could spend a few days as a patient and see what it was like to be catatonic because that was my part.

And he said, okay, I asked him if he would arrange it. And he did. And, I'll arrange. I asked him if he would arrange it. And he did. And they took me down. I braised him. They put a gown on me. And I went to see doctors that nobody knew except the head of the hospital, I guess, and the patients got it right away. And they'd say, you're not one of us.

You don't belong here. Wow. And I'd say, what makes you say so? And they said, because you're not crazy. You're not mentally ill. What are you doing here? I wouldn't say, oh, but I am. And I'm here for.

And I spent a few nights there, you know, in the boards where it's pretty scary. And finally, the fourth day came. I was only there about four days. And I went up to the nurse's station and I said, I'm going to check out now. She said, oh, are you really? I said, I really am. You know, I'm here to observe. She said, uh-huh. We hear that a lot. Wow. I said, no kidding. They're coming in a car to get me. She said, We hear that a lot. I said, no kidding. They're coming in a car to get me.

She said, well, who do you think you are? She just wouldn't believe me. I won't go into how I had to get somebody to come and get me out of there. But I did learn a lot. And I learned a lot about catatonia. And I also learned a lot about how smart those people are. They may be mentally disturbed, but they know what's going on. I mean, they knew what was going on. Not all of them, but there were some catatonics whom I was playing who really did sit all day.

You know, they didn't move. And that's scary. That's what I was playing in the movie. So the people running the asylum were convinced you were crazy, but the crazy people. Interesting. You're right. They knew I wasn't. And what was it that they saw that they knew you weren't crazy?

I think it's the way you speak. It's your attitude. You can pretend to be. I pretended to be, you know, kind of out of it. They just laughed at me. They said, what are you doing? You're not one of us. You're right. It's very interesting that you said that because the only way I got out of the

hospital was they finally called the head of the hospital who came down to get me. And I got out. They gave me my clothes back. But you're right. The people who really should have known really thought I was crazy. And the people who really mentally disturbed people got my message in a minute. Isn't that interesting? Wow. I think we've come up with a plot of a horror film. An actor goes into a mental hospital to study a role, and then they can't get out. That's because they commit her.

There have been movies like that where people have pretended to be crazy and gone into homes and then they are convinced they're crazy and they won't let them out. Oh, I didn't know that. There was one, I think that one with Sam Fuller. Chuck Carter? Yeah. I think in that

what's his name? Stuart Whitman. Pretends he's crazy. Never seen Shock Corridor. And he checks into an asylum, and then they believe he's crazy. What's the name of the movie? What? Shock Corridor.

Is that the one you're thinking of, Shock Corridor? I think so. Sam Fuller. Sam Fuller directed it? Now I have to look that up. Okay. Interesting. Wow.

It was a bizarre experience. And I'll tell you, the movie was odd because, you know, Joan Crawford was— I had no scenes with her. She came later. But when I looked at it again some years ago, I thought, oh, I could have been so much better. I could have done so much better work than I did in that movie. Do you watch yourself a lot in movies and TV? Never. No. I happen to see that movie. I don't know why. They showed it on television or somewhere. I don't know why I happen. I never watch myself. Do you avoid watching yourself? I don't care. What about something you think you're particularly good at? No. No. You can't watch that either.

you think you're particularly good in. No. No, you can't watch that either. I mean, it's not that I'm abhorrent. I have an abhorrence about it, but I'm not interested. It's done, you know? The times you have seen yourself, do you ever find yourself like that time going,

oh, damn, why did I do it that way? Very often. Yeah. I saw myself in Private Benjamin. I liked that a lot. I liked what I did in that a lot. But the caretakers, I thought, oh my goodness, I could have done so much more interesting stuff. I don't know what I was thinking of. You know, you grow as an actor. Yeah. It takes 30 years to make an actor, I really think. And you do grow. Well, you've done 30, 40 movies. Have you had that experience, Gil?

Yes. I'm still, one day I'll learn how to act. Have you looked at a performance and thought I could have done something different with it? Every one of them. Every one of them. Yeah. Is that true? That's true?

I do find myself going, I mean, everything I do in the business, when I do an interview on a talk show or anything, I'm going, ah, God, that was a dumb thing to say. But don't you ever like yourself? Sometimes. Sometimes I do. And then there are those other times where you go, well, why did I do it that way? Well, I feel that way. As I said, I don't watch myself, but that one time I did, and I thought, I really missed the boat. I missed the boat on that performance.

I just watched you in One Potato, Two Potato. That's a different thing. Yeah, and you're excellent and I hope you can watch at least parts of that. I saw that recently because... Beautiful little movie. Yeah, they ran No, I like that. I would have done some scenes differently there too.

Trust me. That was a long time ago. Directed by Larry Pierce Gilbert, who made The Incident. Oh, wow. A movie you're very fond of with Martin Sheen and Brock Peters. Which brings us back to what was Martin Sheen like to work with? Well, he's darling. You know, I wasn't really old enough to play his mother, but I did play his mother.

And it was, as I say, it was a double Defenders. We had a wonderful time. He was a young actor. He was just beginning. And what had a wonderful time. He was a young actor. He was just beginning. And what a body of work now. Yeah. And what a great guy he is too. But he was very young. And I was getting married during, and we couldn't finish shooting. It was horrible. I mean, I wanted it to be over. It's another story. We won't go into it.

Well, let's talk about your husband, Jay, who accomplished a lot in the business as well. And Richard Kind, who brought you to us, emailed me and he said, you know, Jay got me my equity card. And I just wanted to tell you that. And I wanted to mention it to our listeners who love Richard. And your husband gave a lot of people their start. He gave hundreds of people. Not only actors, you know, musicians, composers, directors. Sure. He founded a company called Theater Works USA. Jay Harnick. Jay Harnick. What's his name? Jay Malcolm Harnick. He founded this company, very small to begin with.

It became the most successful children's theater company in this country, if not in the world, actually. And they did only musicals, as he would say, no dancing vegetables. I like that. They did one-hour plays about famous people as youths, young Mozart, young Jackie Robinson, young Lincoln. They were original. He would put the composer and the lyricist together. He would hire the directors, the scene designers, and the actors.

So he introduced young people to theater. Yes. Well, they were graduates. Okay. Oh, you mean young people in the audience? Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah, children.

Definitely. Definitely. Places in this country, little towns had never saw henry winkler too yes i was told that's right who's done this show yeah and he was very fond of jay he gave everybody their starts or equity cards but to get into the company you had to audition and he would hire people from he would say i can tell an actor or singer who walks in the room if he has a fire in the belly. He said, I don't even have to hear them.

He could know right away. Right away. And he was usually always right. And he was everybody's favorite person because he was the most magnanimous, the most adorable, the funniest man who ever lived. And his actors, his companies truly adored him. That's nice. 30 years. What a nice legacy. And I meet people now, many of whom, you know, who say, oh my God, your husband was like Richard Kine. My life would not have been the same without Jay. That's what he said to me. He said be sure to bring up Jay

and he got me my equity card. And Lynn Ahrens and you know they have a show now once on this island I think. Lynn Ahrens and her partner he gave them their first assignment. A lot of people. He gave the people who wrote

on television the big friends as it was called. Oh, Kaufman and Crane. Yeah, he gave them their first job. Martin Kaufman and David Crane. Their first job. How about that? They wrote a play for them. They wrote a musical or a play.

I can't remember because most of his stuff was musical. He gave them their first. And wherever you go in the theater today, you see people on stage. The last one who played Fiddler, what's his name? Bernstein. Oh, Molino? Alfred Molino played it. No, the next one who played it.

Oh, I can't remember. You know who I mean. Bernstein. Bernstein. Yeah, I can't think of the first name. Burstein. Yeah, I can't think of the first name. He said in a Times article about other, oh, I just got dizzy, about other fiddlers.

People had been in other fiddlers. And he said, when I was a young man, I played muddle. Danny Burstein. Danny Burstyn. Danny Burstyn. I played Muddle in a fiddler that was touring or something. And Jay Harnick, the fabulous Jay Harnick, he said, brilliant, he came up to me and he said, Danny, don't be afraid to be disliked. No, he said, Danny, dare to be disliked. He said that in the New York Times. He said, that was the best direction I ever

got because I'm sure he was doing a lot of stuff, you know, being muddled. And every time I see him, he said, your husband, he says, your husband, your husband. And he says that to Aaron, too. Your dad, your dad. He was really a great producer. That's nice. He made a real contribution to the. Your dad, your dad. He was really a great producer.

That's nice. He made a real contribution to the culture. Huge culture. Yeah. A huge contribution. And your son is a producer, too. My son is a producer. That six-year-old that passed out in his salad back in 1979. He's also a writer, you know.

He was dyslexic. Aaron Harnick. Aaron Harnick. He produced Martin Short's one-man show, Barber's Son. Yeah. They thought he would never read, would never write. He went to a great school finally, and he became a writer. And then he became a – by the way, when you mentioned the movies that I've done,

he produced a movie called 30 Days. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet, but I saw it in the research. Okay, I'll watch it. And then we did together Eric Mendelsohn's movie with Madeleine Kahn. Judy Berlin. Judy Berlin. Have you ever seen that? That one I've seen.

That one I've seen. I like that very much. I love it. Madeleine Kahn's last part. I did a guest appearance in Martin Short Show. Oh, Fame Becomes Me, I believe it was called. Yes, yes, yes. You did?

Oh, he pulled you out of the audience? I'm in a Broadway show. Oh, you did the Jiminy Glick thing? Yeah, he used to have that like as Jiminy Glick. Right. Oh, right. I saw you do that. I'm sure I saw you do that.

Wow. Because I was at that show a lot. Yeah, and he'd pretend that like, uh-oh, we need a celebrity. Is there one in the audience? Right, right. Oh, nice to know Martin owes us a favor. He'll have to come and do the show now. Right, right.

Oh, nice to know Martin owes us a favor. He'll have to come and do the show now to draw him in. And you worked with, of course, the great Jack Klugman and Tony Randall. Yes, you were Gloria Unger in one of those odd couple reunions. I don't even remember doing it, but I know I did it. You don't. You don't. Yeah. I don't remember doing it at all but but then i did an odd couple movie in vancouver for television with with jack with

jack clugman yeah and tony randall yeah and i played tony randall's wife gloria right we were there forever in vancouver i thought we would never get out yeah it is so boring it's i shouldn't say that, you can edit that out. We don't want to insult the people of Vancouver. I don't want to. But anyway, yeah, I remember that movie because we were there forever. And I remember they gave me gorgeous clothes, designer clothes. They didn't give them to me.

How was Tony Randall to work with? Well, you know, I knew him a lot, too. I knew him. to work with. Well, you know, I knew him a lot, too. I knew him, but what happened was he would just kind of ignore me for the whole shoot. We'd go to these outdoor camps.

He was just kind of ignoring me. And then one day, toward the end of the shoot, he said to me, you know, Barbara, you are really a pretty woman. I said, oh, thanks, Tony. It took three weeks for him to see me.

Thanks, Tony. It took three weeks for him to see me. Thanks, Tony. You're really pretty. And then we became friends, you know. He had other things going. I know he had his own theater company. He did, sure. He was very busy. National Theater Company, I think.

And what about Jack Klugman? Well, Jack, oh, I knew Jack for years. I knew him before when his voice started to go. We were all friends in California before I got married, really. And he was a terrific guy. Was? He's gone, Jack. Yeah.

Yeah, they're all gone. And when he divorced his wife. Brett Summers. Brett Summers. We were all kind of chummy, the Connellys and a lot of people. We were just a lovely group. And I remember he said to Brett Summers, look, we're going to split up and I want you to have everything you need. So let's talk about what you need for the rest of your life. How about that? No, divorced people don't usually say that.

He was a very good guy. He struck me. I don't never met him, but he struck me as a Menchie guy. He's a very, very good guy. The people I really don't like, I'm not talking to you about. You don't have to talk. See, that's the stuff I wanted. No, but he was a Menchie is the perfect word for him.

Well, speaking of Felix Unger, I'm going to do a segue here. What? You also worked with the original Felix Unger, Art Carney, in The Prisoner of Second Avenue. Oh, yes. You toured with him. Oh, we did it on Broadway, too. Oh, and on Broadway, right. We replaced Peter Falk and Lee Grant.

And Lee Grant. And he said, I won't do this unless Mike Nichols puts us in. Because, you know, the stage manager often puts you in. So we rehearsed for a good, I would say, 6, 8, 10 days with Mike. And he was great. He and Mike didn't get along so well. Really? I never knew that. Well, eventually they did.

And then we stayed on Broadway. Then we went on the national tour where we played Chicago for five weeks without one laugh. Not one laugh. And, you know, that's hysterical. That show's filled with laughs. Not one laugh. Art said, I'm never going to play Chicago again. And he also called Mike.

He said, I don't know what we're doing wrong, but we're not getting any laughs. They send out the assistant stage manager, Tom Porter, who's brilliant. He said, I don't know. It's this audience. They don't, they don't, they're not vocal. Do you know what I mean? He was furious, but he was a great partner. And the only time he ever said anything to me was once we had a scene at a table

and there was a wall. And at one point I hit my hand on the wall and he said to me, I want to ask you one favor. I said, what? He said, when I'm speaking, you're hitting your hand on the wall. Can you hit your hand on the wall a line later? I said, sure. It's the only time he ever criticized me. He was so darling. And he was married to a wonderful

one, Barbara, at that point. We all chummed around. But I tell you, Chicago was murder. I don't think I'll ever play Chicago. Have you ever played Chicago? Oh, yeah. Well, comedy clubs. Well, but you're more successful than we were. We were really, we bombed.

And we sold out. It isn't that we didn't sell out. But the Chicago audience did not respond. Verbally, vocally. How interesting. Yeah. He was. But another guy, again, you know, obviously I've never met Art Carney. But another guy that guy again you know obviously I've never

met Art Carney but another guy that you you know what I'm saying Gil you get almost you get the impression that he was a very very light guy

oh yeah you never hear a negative you hear a lot of negative things about Gleason but nobody ever said a disparaging word about Art Carney no no no

he was very he was very quiet you know very quiet and very modest and he didn't like the first moment of the play that what You know, very quiet and very modest. And he didn't like the first moment of the play, what Mike wanted him to do.

And he stormed off the stage in rehearsal. He said, I'm not going to do that. I'm funny and you're not letting me be funny. And Mike said, I didn't hire you because you were funny. I hired you because you're a great actor. And the next day we started again, and he said, this is what you have to remember, Art. When you do a play in your first couple of moments, you have to be sure that you don't invite the audience up to join you.

Don't pander to the audience. Just do the work. Do the work, and even in a major comedy, you do the work as if it's Chekhov. Don't pander to the audience. And Art really resisted him. But then it turned out, of course,

he was right. And if you remember that moment, that character comes out without a sound and sits down on the sofa and sighs and the house falls apart. But not in Chicago. That's funny.

And I always do great in Chicago. He's breaking the mold. I would be hesitant to go back. I'm telling you. Yeah. It was terrible. But he was a wonderful man. You got to work with a lot of people you liked.

Isn't that nice? Yes, more than the people I didn't like. The people I didn't like were awesomely hateful. We won't ask you. Don't ask me. You can tell us later over a drink. Don't ask me. I won't tell you.

Can we throw some wild names out at you? Sure. How about you worked in Barefoot in the Park, speaking of Neil Simon, with Hans Conrad? Wow. Yes. For HBO. Uncle Tannous. For HBO. For HBO.

Yeah, James Cromwell was in that too, another of our favorite actors. Was James in that? Yeah. Are you sure? What did he play? He's credited here.

What did he play? I'll have to cross-reference it on my phone. And what was Hans Conrad like? It was a character. We loved him. That's the way he is in real life.

We loved him. Oh, yeah, he was terrific. I'll just throw some names at you here. Okay. An actor Gilbert and I love, and we've been trying to get on this show, and I suspect he's a friend of yours, Bob Dishy. Oh, yes, he's a friend of mine. We did Judy Berlanti.

Yes, Tony Roberts was here and promised us Bob Dishy, and we still haven't gotten Bob Dishy. Oh, he's a rare bird. Yeah, and he doesn't do interviews, does he? I don't know. Yeah. But I certainly love him. I love him.

We've been friends forever. And tell us about Madeline Kahn. Well, you know, that was her last movie. And we weren't supposed to know she was ill, but she was ill, clearly ill. But she behaved brilliantly. We shot at night, we shot in the rain. She was so agreeable and so, so agreeable and so such a good sport. And I remember that there was a car one day to pick her up. She was late, and she came down into the car, and she apologized profusely.

You know, she was a big star. Yes. And I thought, she doesn't have to apologize to me. She was so down to earth. And so I really loved her. I had no scenes with her, by the way. It's a sweet little movie. It is a sweet little movie. Judy Berlin. I recommend it to our listeners if they don't know it.

What about, this is a guy Gilbert and I love, and you work with him a couple of times, Richard Mulligan. Well, I work with him a lot. Yeah. Well, he's in One Potato, Two Potato. You did that series with him, Reggie. Yeah, I did that series. And we went out together. We were a couple.

You dated Richard Mulligan. We're breaking news here. Yeah. What a funny man. Wasn't he in that TV show, The Hero? He was in Soap. Yeah. And he was the star of a movie I love, Blake Edwards' S.O.B.

Yeah. I think there was a show called The Hero. Okay. I'll check that. He was so funny. Truly funny. In life, he was funny. Uh-huh.

Yeah. We only got to see him on screen. In life. On this street where I lived, they had a fire in my apartment. And I was touring Europe in another show, in a big show for the USIA and the theater. And he stayed in my apartment just to take care of it for me. And I had a lot of very good art. And during the fire, he got it all out, down the stairs onto 45th Street.

And here we are on 45th Street. Here we are. He lived right on this very block. Yeah. He was a very special person. Funny, so funny. Good actor. Good straight actor.

Wonderful actor. Good comedian. Well, he was in One Potato, Two Potatoes. Yes, and his brother, of course, directed To Kill a Mockingbird. His brother, Robert Mulligan. And who was he married to? Many people. to kill a mockingbird, his brother Robert Mulligan.

Who was he married to? Many people. But Barbara wasn't one of them. I was not one of them. I think he had three wives, really. I think he had three wives. Barbara, you worked with everybody, and you did everything. And I got to say, I was telling Richard Kind that when I do research with a guest, there are some guests where I could just, there's so much. There's just page after page.

But everybody, if you're on the show, you've done a lot of work, right? Yeah, but there are some people where it just goes on and on forever and we couldn't even begin to cover it. Tell Gilbert, and we'll wrap with this. I think he would find this interesting. The movie that you and Jessica did with Rip Torn, where he was the Nazi. Yeah. Where he was the Nazi. Because, Gilbert, you love a Nazi movie. Oh, yeah. Well, we were survivors. We were survivors. You know me.

Of a concentration camp. Women. A lot of women. Sandy Dennis, Jessica Walter, Loretta Swit, Valerie Harper. And we each had our own trailer. I'll never forget it. It was very elegant.

And somebody said to me, oh, God, you're going to work with Jessica Walter. It's going to be so difficult. I said, no, okay. I'd never met her. P.S., we all adored each other. She's the best. And Rip was the villain. And, of course, I'd been to college with him. And we each had a trailer.

And I remember they used to bring us champagne at the end of the day. It was the greatest shoot I ever had. Wow. And it was just one of the – and Rip was, you know. It's called the execution. Yeah. And the scenes with him, of course, were impossible, as I remember, because he was always on his own wavelength. But his own wavelength. But his own

wavelength was just brilliant, you know? You couldn't... I once did a play with him at Westport, at the Westport Playhouse, and he was in a wheelchair, and I was kneeling, I was his wife, and I was kneeling, and I said my line, and he didn't answer me. And I said it again, and he didn't answer me. I said something else again, and he didn't answer me. And I said it again and he didn't answer me. I said something else again and he didn't answer me. The scene ended. We just ended. So then afterwards I said, Rip, why didn't you

answer me when I was speaking to you on stage? He said, I decided I was going to do an experiment tonight. I decided I would never speak a line unless I were viscerally impaled to speak it.

He's really on his own wavelength. Always. That's the way he was at Texas University. Wow. But he was, you know, and he just was better than all of us i can only tell you that yeah he's still great i mean i i've never seen him give a bad performance i haven't either well didn't he do that thing with um sanders oh the larry sanders show oh he's wonderful

wasn't he good on that wonderful absolutely wonderful by the way apropos of nothing do you know i started watching last night just because I was so tired, Transparent? With Jeffrey Tambor. Have you seen it? No, I haven't, but I hear it's great. Well, it's bizarre. Yeah. And good.

Yeah. You want to take us out with, here's your choice, a story about anything you want to say about any of these people. Tell me. George Burns, you did a movie called Two of these people. Tell me. George Burns. You did a movie called Two of a Kind. I did, yes. Ruth Gordon. Yes.

Or Eli Wallach. I'd rather do Ruth Gordon. Okay. You know why? Because I saw her in The Matchmaker when I was an usher. I was so poor. I was an equity member. And if you're an equity member,

you got to usher at shows. Well, Gilbert worked theaters. Oh, yeah. Broadway theaters as a... At Christmas time. I was selling concessions. Yeah, the concession stand. That's what you did?

And it was a great time because I worked the concessions during Matter of Gravity with Katherine Hepburn and Christopher Reeves, American Buffalo with Robert Duvall, Kenneth McMillan and John Savage, and Equus with Richard Burton, and then for a week or two with Anthony Perkins. I remember all of those shows. I remember all of them. Gilbert sold you your Milk Duds. You're younger than I am, so I don't know. See, I probably overcharged you for a fruit drink.

I was working for free. I had a basket, you know. You used to pass the basket. Oh, yes. At Christmas time for the Actors Fund. That's how I got to see all those shows for nothing because I didn't have any money. Yeah. And I was living in a cold water flat. So, I mean, I really had no money.

Anyway, I saw Ruth Gordon in The Matchmaker. And I said to myself, it's the greatest female performance I've ever seen. No kidding. And I was so blown away by it that it really affected me for the rest of my life. It affected my acting.

It affected the way I believe people should behave, myself, behave on stage. And, you know, that's it. I haven't seen Bette Midler and this was not a musical

this was a straight play she was doing this straight matchmaker and it was the most glorious performance I've ever seen anyway fade out she and her husband

then husband Garson Kanan took a fancy to me and they would ask me to do stuff. And I knew that if I were to play with Bruce Gordon, I would be so cowed, and I would not be good. And so I did one thing that Garson asked me to do as a long story I won't go into. I went out of town.

I replaced Marion Seldes. But at one point, they took me to dinner at Sardi's, and I always remember this. And she said, you have to do this play, Barbara, that we're going to do. And I knew I shouldn't do it, you know, because I knew it would come to no good. I said, I really can't, Miss Gordon. She said, you will have the most beautiful clothes you've ever had on the stage. That was her bribe. But I didn't do it. But I revered her my entire, I still do. Yeah, she's just great and everything. I still do. So that was my,

that's my favorite story about her because she, because that's a good story. You know, she, she was a genius. You didn't see that show? No. And what the hell? Tell us about George Burns. Well, he was very old when we did that show. Two of a kind. It was you, him, and Robbie Benson. Yeah, Robbie Benson. And he was also, believe it or not, a customer of my brother's in Beverly Hills.

My brother was an investment banker in Beverly Hills, and George Burns was one of his clients. So we had that kind of little bond, you know? That's nice. And he was very sweet. And once a day, I was ushered into his trailer, and we had a little talk. And that was all he could do. And then I was ushered out.

And then we did our scene. And then the next day, I was ushered into his trailer at a certain time, four in the afternoon, whatever it was. We'd have a little talk. He did have a cigar. I mean, you know, he was really – and it was a lovely experience. Robbie Benson was young. Is he acting still?

He's around. Yeah, I met him, worked with him once. He's around. Very sweet guy. He was sweet then. And so George was old. You know, he was already old. And he was very protected.

He had an assistant and somebody who took him off the set. I mean, he was very protected. But it was a good experience. So you're a person who didn't even plan to become an actress, comes to New York to follow a guy. Look at the path your life took. You wind up working with George Burns, Elizabeth Taylor. Joan Crawford.

Joan Crawford, Rock Hudson. But you know the funny part about it is? Quite a ride, Barbara. Yeah, but you know the funny part about it is? You're such a good interviewer. I must say both of you are just incredible. But the funny part of it is you never feel any different. You know, I still put the laundry in the machine, take it out and do the drying,

take the grandchildren to, you know, the nutcrackers. But you never feel any different. Never. I mean, maybe if you're a big, huge star, you feel different. Do you think so? I don't know. Ask Gilbert. Do you feel like you're a headliner no it's it's like you always wake up and and uh you know people feel like like i feel like i could get excited if I see someone I recognize from TV or movies,

but I don't get excited to look at myself in the mirror kind of thing. Exactly, exactly. I mean, sometimes, you know, where I live in the summer on Fire Island, especially when we first bought the house there, people used to think that I was, you know, different. They've learned that I'm not any different at all. But I always wondered why they did that, because you still brush your teeth and, you know, get your kids ready for school, and you do all the things that you do.

And I never have—that was my work. It was my work, and I loved some of the experiences. I mean, being in company was really an extraordinary experience, although we didn't know what we were doing. But it was, you know, extraordinary. You were nominated for Tony and you had the only non-singing part. That's right. Yeah. That's right.

You're so good at this. Do you have an absolutely ironclad memory? I'm just psychotic. I'm detached from reality is what it is, Barbara. Yes, I have a good memory. You must. You've only done this research and now you remember everything. Yes, I told you in the car. I said, I now know everything about you. I know. I even knew that your apartment caught fire when you were in LA doing all those gigs. You did? Was that in that research? Yes. Yes. And Richard Mulligan saved all my pain. That part wasn't

in the research, so I'm glad you added that. But this was a kick. And so you, yeah. It was 45th Street, wasn't it? Yep.

That's interesting. I find like, it's kind of like as you get older, you still kind of feel like, well, I'm still like dumb kid that I always was. And it's like you could be in a movie or TV show and stuff, and you feel like you're, you know, the dumb guy or girl from years ago.

Well, you know what Lawrence Olivier always used to say? What? No matter what his age, what Lawrence Olivier always used to say? What? No matter what his age, he used to say, I always think of myself as 17 with red lips. Always. He always said that. And I think of myself as 17 with red lips until I look in the mirror and I see my mother and I know I'm not 17 with red lips. My husband used to say, I won't tell you how old I am now because I'm really getting up there.

But you're still working. You just made a movie. I know. But my husband used to say, if you're over 50 and you get up in the morning and nothing hurts, you're dead. That's a great line He was really a funny man We have to thank Richard Kind for bringing you into our lives This was really fun And I knew you'd be the perfect guest

and he was right Well, you're the perfect interviewers I can't get over you You make me feel so easy and you know so much You know so much boring stuff about me I mean, it's really boring. We love show business.

We love actors. I guess so. And we love to hear their stories. What's really more interesting are my grandchildren. Wait till you become a grandfather. It changes your whole life. Oh, God. You have kids. I don't have any children, no. I got married late. Well, it changes your whole life. I'm telling you.

They're smarter than anybody you ever knew and uh uh they know more of all this technical stuff you know oh i called my daughter once they were in a restaurant and the rule was you can't answer your phone in the restaurant my and my 12 year old said my my daughter said gee i maybe i should answer this. It's from Barbara. And they called me Barbara. And my 12-year-old said, oh, mom, she probably just has something going wrong with her television set. Don't answer. That's great. There you go.

My 10-year-old daughter, I have on my phone, I have a flashlight. Yeah. And I couldn't for the life of me. It's on the back of your flashlight. Yeah. And I couldn't for the life of me. It's on the back of your phone. Yeah. I couldn't for the life of me figure out. I was getting totally frustrated. So I call up my 10-year-old daughter.

She goes, okay, wait, wait. Press this button. Yeah, now go to the left. Go to the left, bottom left. Press that. That's the flashlight. You to the left, bottom left. Press that. That's the flashlight. You see the picture? And I thought, wow.

They know how to do that. How is you becoming a grandfather going to be any different than it is now? Yeah, exactly. What do you mean? What do you mean? He's already daughtering. Oh, you mean because you had your kids late, you mean? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Aren't you glad you did? I guess so. I don't know. Anyway, now's a good time to wrap. We'll wrap. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. amazing, colossal podcast.

And we have been interviewing the very delightful star of, I don't know how many movies and TV shows, Barbara Barry. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Will you come back next time and tell us about the people you hated? No. Okay. Thank you. Godfrey and Frank Santa Padre with audio production by Frank Verterosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair and John Bradley Seals.

Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. Gilbert, there's no goddamn script here. Jesus. Hello, this is Gino Comporti, and I am pleased to tell you that you are listening to the Gilbert Gottfried Most Colossal Podcast Ever Done Anywhere.

Except here. you and cut you to the quick. You can use me as a doctor for I also heal the sick.