Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 208. Keith Carradine

Episode Date: May 21, 2018

Gilbert and Frank welcome one of their favorite performers, Academy Award winner Keith Carradine, for a fond look back at his frequent collaborations with mentor Robert Altman, his friendships with co-stars Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine and Robert Mitchum, and the life and career of his dad, horror legend John Carradine. Also, Harvey Keitel loosens up, Jerry Lewis shoots hoops, Rod Steiger pays a surprise visit and Jessica Tandy lights up the stage. PLUS: "Love American Style"! Sam Fuller eats a stogie! Kwai Chang Caine hosts SNL! Deconstructing "The Aristocrats"! And Keith wins an Oscar for Best Original Song! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Hi, this is Willie Tyler. This is lester you're listening to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast it is nice thank you thank you guys Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is a musician, an Oscar-winning singer-songwriter, an Emmy and Tony-nominated performer, and one of the busiest, most versatile, and most admired actors of his generation. You've seen him in popular TV shows like Deadwood, Criminal Minds, Dexter, Damages, Fargo, and the current hit Madam Secretary, as well as on the Broadway stage in Hair, Foxfire, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, and the Will Rogers Follies. But he's probably best known to audiences for his fine work in some of the more memorable movies of the last five decades,

including McCabe and Mrs. Miller, The Duelists, Thieves, The Thieves Like Us. I'm sorry. The Duelists, Thieves Like Us, Pretty Baby, Welcome to L.A., Wild Bill, The Long Riders, Cowboys and Aliens, and of course has the womanizing Tom Frank in one of the most defining films of the 1970s, Robert Altman's Nashville. In a very long and very distinguished career, he shared the screen with the likes of Kirk Douglas, Lee Marvin, Rod Steiger, and Albert Finney, and worked with iconic directors such as Oltman, Alan Rudolph, Walter Hill, Sam Fuller, Louis Malle, and Ridley Scott. Please welcome one of our favorite actors, an artist of many talents, and I've always wanted to say this, the son of Dracula, Keith Carradine.

I feel like I'm really something, man. I had no idea. See, I always feel like those intros should be followed with, found dead in his Los Angeles apartment. You know what? One of these days, that could be it. I hope I'm in my home and not a Los Angeles apartment. Let me get this out of the way in front.

I'm a huge fan. And the aristocrats, Gilbert, you are, in my estimation, you are the gold standard in terms of the telling of that particular joke of all jokes. You're a God, man. And I cannot tell you what an honor it is to be able to meet you and speak with you here in your world. How about that, Gil? Well, now that I've gotten that compliment, we don't need to interview you anymore. Okay, that's good.

Hey, I'm cool, man. I can go eat something. And I remember this is a boring thing to turn it about me. I worked with your brother, David. Hosted Saturday Night Live once. Davey?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did not know he ever hosted Saturday Night Yeah. Oh, yeah. I did not know he ever hosted Saturday Night Live. Have they ever hosted 7980? And they, uh, I remember at first they wrote bits for him that he was ready to have fun.

And then they came up with this dumb idea that he'd play the Kung Fu character in each sketch and wander in and out. And by the first minute, you knew it wasn't working. And that was it. But at the end of the show, I was standing there for the good nights.

I look up in the balcony, and there's your father, John Carradine, sitting there, like, leaning his weight on a cane. And I just thought that was magical, seeing him there. Yeah. He had an extraordinary career, an amazing life. Hey, man, I come from, you know, this sort of Hollywood, I guess there's an element of dynasty about it, I suppose, on some level. But the old man, man, he was the first. And as my brother David liked to say, because of him, we all stand 10 feet taller than we would have otherwise.

Wow. You know, you're kicking yourself for not going up there and meeting John Caron? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's such a horror fan, Keith. We've had Bela Lugosi's son on the show, and we had Sarah Barth's Karloff's daughter here. Lon Chaney Jr.'s grandson. Yeah, we talk a lot about the Universal Classics.

You know, it's interesting. Yeah, and remember Landau's performance. Oh, sure. Martin Landau's performance in Ed Wood. Yeah. And for which he won his Oscar, a supporting actor Oscar. Well deserved. And his physicality in that role, I thought, I wonder if Marty knew my dad.

Because in my father's later years, his arthritis rendered him, you know, it changed the way he moved and walked. And in particular, the walk that he had. I looked at Landau in Ed Wood and I thought, hey, man, he's doing my dad's walk toward the end of his life. It was an interesting thing to see. Did you ever ask if there was a connection there? I never got the chance. I met Marty a few years later when he was still around

and I didn't want to go there with him. I like your dad's Dracula. It's more of a kind of a stylized champagne Dracula, almost like what Langella did with the character.

Kind of. And my father was particularly proud of the fact that he made his Dracula physically, his physical appearance was, he said, exactly what Stoker had written in the book. Oh, the mustache. Yes. Yes, all of that.

The purest. So, you know, it was the most true to Stoker's description. But for some reason, well, I guess he was hiding the fact that he was Dracula, even though he was wearing a cape and the medallion and turning into a bat. Yeah. But apart from that, who would have known? Yeah, yeah.

It was like, do you remember what his name was in the House of Frankenstein and House of Dracula? My father's name? Yes. He didn't call himself Dracula. Oh, he wasn't Count Dracula. What was it? He would go, I am Baron Latos.

Yes. No way. Yeah, that was Baron Latos. Meanwhile, he dressed like Dracula. So did he drink milk? I mean. Oh, yes. He's intolerant.

He's almost a Shakespearean Dracula. You know, I know he was a Shakespeare buff. He was a great student of the Bard. I mean, that was his great love was Shakespeare. You know, he was a Shakespearean actor first and foremost. And, you know, he wound up in the movies really by chance. I mean, he came out here to Hollywood looking to be an actor. But he was also, he was an accomplished portrait sculptor.

Yes. He had studied in New York with William Chester Frentz. And, in fact, he met DeMille, Cecil B. DeMille, because he was commissioned to do a bust of DeMille. And while DeMille was sitting for him, while my father was working on the initial phases of that sculpture, DeMille heard his speaking voice and asked if he was an actor. And my father said, yes, I am. And he said, I'm doing a film. And my father, in his usual highfalutin way, my dad could be a bit of a snob. And he said, no, Mr. DeMille, I'm a theater actor.

But that soon, that fell by the wayside. And his first film was DeMille's Sign of the Cross. Right. I read that he designed sets for him for five minutes, and that didn't work out. That may be true. I'm not aware of that particular story,

but, you know, I heard a few. Because he sculpted as well. Yeah. He was a sculptor, a portrait sculptor. He made his way across the country

doing sketch portraits of people's, you know, he would do a portrait in pencil and his deal was it was a dollar. And if you didn't approve of the likeness, you didn't have to pay for it.

And it was a great source of pride for him that no one ever stiffed him. Everyone agreed to give him the dollar after they saw the work. So he was very proud of that. And he worked as a watchman on a banana tree. And I think it was between El Paso and Los Angeles. That's how he made the final leg of the journey across the country.

And then he wound up doing odd jobs. He was a film dryer at one point. And he talked about crawling into the back seats of cars that were unlocked on Hollywood Boulevard and sleeping for the night because he didn't have a place to live. On one occasion, he was awakened by this guy got into his car having no idea that there was a man asleep in the back seat. And the guy started the car up and my dad shot up and said, whoa, and the guy was, you know, scared to death. What the hell?

He's in my car. You know, those were the, I guess those were, what he referred to as his salad days. I'm never sure, where does that expression come from? That's a good question. Why do they call it your salad days? Because I appreciate a good salad. Salad days are good.

Those are good days. Yeah, you'd think it was stale bread days or something. Did he audition? There's varying stories on the internet about whether he ever officially auditioned for the monster and also for the, for the count before Lugosi got the part. You know, I don't know the answer to that question,

but he certainly, listen, I mean, he, he did those films, the horror films that my dad participated in. Most of those happened in, in from the late forties and through the fifties.

And, you know, I mean, he had started off, he was a highly respected and desired character actor. And, you know, as he would say, people would ask him and he would say, well, you know, I've been in some of the best films ever made and some of the worst. So, you know, he did what he had to do. He had a bunch of kids to So, you know, he did what he had to do. He had a bunch of kids to feed, you know. Sure. He kept us fed and clothed

and a roof over our heads and to do that, he made a lot of films that, you know, he wasn't necessarily, he knew they were crap for the most part, but it's a huge part

of his legacy, you know. And we do what we have to do, man, right? I mean, we do what we have to do. Of course. And then people remember us or they don't, you know. I mean do what we have to do, man, right? I mean, we do what we have to do. Of course. And then people remember us or they don't, you know? I mean, I think it's a great sort of ironic tragedy that when Richard Harris checked out, they said Dumbledore is dead. I mean, my God, look at that guy's body of work, you know, from the sporting life to, you know.

Oh, everything. Everything. Camelot. Yes. I mean. I remember seeing John Carradine in a movie, one of his lesser ones later on. Yeah. And he was the narrator. He keeps popping in in between stories to give a dramatic reading of what's coming up. And you could see he's palming a cigarette in his hand. It's like he was so aware he was doing a piece of shit,

he wouldn't even put the cigarette down for it. You know, it's funny. I came across, recently I came across an old interview when he did the Dick Cavett show. And, you know, that was, I think it was the early 70s maybe. It might have been the late 60s. I'm not, I think it was the early 70s. And, you know, it was, I think it was the early 70s maybe. It might have been the late 60s. I'm not, I think it was the early 70s. And, you know, it was a different time, man.

And he's sitting there with a smoke, you know, on the air. Oh, they all smoked on the air then. Yeah. And you could see the clouds of smoke wafting through, you know, while he was talking. It was interesting, though. It was a great thing to come across because it was him just sitting and chatting with Cavett, you know, and, and Cavett was, he was a good interviewer. He's a smart guy. And, and, uh, you know, uh, it was fun to see that snippet of my dad, uh, after all these years, I mean, he's been gone

since, uh, 88. So, you know, I miss him. And, and, uh, particularly cause he was an older guy when I was born. Um, you know, mostly I got a lot of stories, but some of them were the kind of stories that he told to Cavett, and it was a good thing to come across. He breaks your heart in Grapes of Wrath. Oh, my. And I was watching today, I was watching the man who shot Liberty Valance.

He makes a great speech. I know you've introduced those films, too. I have. Yeah, and just to those films too. I have. Yeah. And they're just to, just to watch them in those Ford pictures. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. And a handsome man too. I was watching stagecoach over the weekend. He was a good looking guy. He had a good face. Yes, absolutely. The film that really broke him out was, was a prisoner of shark. I remember that one too. And I hadn't seen that. I knew of it, but I hadn't seen it. And it was, I don't know, 20, 30 years ago,

I suddenly came across it. And I sat and watched it. My dad's work in that movie, I thought, whoa, this is modern work. There's nothing dated about what he's doing. It was incredibly right now. And I thought, you know, man, he had it. And I know he did a lot of theater, and he loved Shakespeare,

and he had his own Shakespearean rep company. And I recently came across a bunch of photographs of him from that era in all of the different roles. I know I saw him give his last performance of Hamlet. And by then he was in his 50s. And I think I was six years old. And I fell asleep, of course, because I was six. You know.

He played everything. He played Scrooge. He did. Yeah. Versatile. Versatile. And he pops up in at least two old classic horror films for like one line each. In Bride of Frankenstein, it's the monster.

Yeah. You got to act with him, Keith. I did a few times. The first occasion was I had just finished Hair in New York. I did Hair on Broadway. That was my first gig. I did that from March of 69 to February of 70. And it was after that I'd come back to California,

and I had met Robert Altman, and I was about to go up and do McCabe and Mrs. Miller. And my dad was, you know, I had a month or two, and my dad was doing a dinner theater production of Tobacco Road at the Alhambra Dinner Theater in Jacksonville, Florida. And he invited me to come and play Dude. Now, this was one of his old chestnuts that he would pull out of the trunk, and he would do this from time to time in different places. One of his favorite roles. And he had a couple of actors that he'd worked with over the years.

I'm going to forget her name now. Georgia Simmons, who played Ada. And she was by then in her 80s, I think. And I went down there and did this production at Tobacco Road with him until I had to leave to go and start work on... It came Mrs. Miller up in Vancouver. And when I left,

I think there were still two weeks left in the run, my brother Bobby took over my role. And that was the first time Bobby acted on the stage. Did you learn anything watching him up close, being out there with him every night? Yeah, that was a lesson every day, every moment, every second. And it was really interesting because he had a very strict sense of protocol and how things are properly done as a professional actor in the theater anywhere.

And at one point I asked him for advice about some moment that I had in the play. And he said, if you want to talk about your performance in this play, in this part, you go and you speak to the director. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a purist. Yeah, he was a purist. And if I learned nothing else from him, I learned, listen, temperament is nothing more than bad manners. He said that. Yeah, I love that. He had no patience with temperamental actors. None.

Yeah. No, there's no place for it. Yeah. And then he said, know your lines and pick up your clothes at the end of the day and hang them up. You know, show respect for your fellow workers. Everyone's involved in the making of or the performance of whatever it is. You know, show respect for your fellow workers. Everyone's involved in the making of, or the performance of, whatever it is. You're all working together, and no one is any more important than anyone else, and I've never forgotten that. I can't think of an actor who,

as you go to IMDB and look at his page, and we've had 200 guests on this show. We do a lot of research about those guests and people those guests have worked with and I'm constantly going to IMDb. I have not seen any performer or anyone involved in filmmaking with more credits than John Carradine.

It's hundreds and hundreds. Exactly. And as good as they are, they don't always get it right and they don't have all of his. No, I'm sure. He credited himself,

his count, his personal count was 512 films. Wow. They have 321, so there you go. Exactly. There you go. It's inadequate.

And he said the only actor in Hollywood who had more credits than he in the motion picture business was Donald Crisp. But he said it shouldn't count with Donald Crisp because a lot of Crisp's credits were two reelers. Oh, I love it. So there was a qualification there to that. And I remember as a kid being very excited watching the Munsters

and John Carradine as Herman Moss. He came and gave his guest shot. And you know what? He had actually, he was supposed to audition for that role. And at the time, he was shooting the Patsy with Jerry Lewis. And Jerry wouldn't let him leave to go to the audition. role. And at the time, he was shooting The Patsy with Jerry Lewis and Jerry wouldn't let him leave to go to the audition. Yeah.

And my dad was always, he was pissed off about that for the rest of his life. That's fantastic. But he also said that no one could have played that part as well as Fred Gwynn played it. He said,

there's no way I would have done what Fred did. What a compliment. Wow. How about that? He said, because Fred had a sweetness and he said, and I would not have brought that did. What a compliment. Wow. How about that? He said, because Fred had a sweetness. And he said, and I would not have brought that

to the role. And he said that Fred Gwynn was absolutely the right guy to play that part. But he wanted to be Herman Munster. He did. No, he wanted the shot, you know. Yeah. It was a good gig. I mean, he just wanted to work, you know. Now, what did John Carradine ever

say anything about Jerry Lewis? Well, you listen, I mean, he had obviously great respect for him, you know? But, you know, it was kind of, he thought that was low,

you know, that Jerry wouldn't give him a break and give him enough time to go out and audition for this role, you know? Let's talk about McCabe and Mrs. Millikeet

since you brought it up. Sure. And it was sort of, kind of the thing that put you on the map. It wasn't your first picture. No, but it did put me on the map. That was Robert Altman. And it was funny, I heard about the role. I had come back from doing hair in New York and I had done the gunfight, a gunfight with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash. That was actually my first feature. But I heard about this role, and they sent me over to meet Robert Altman in Westwood.

And he had his Lionsgate films, which he had set up, and he had offices in Westwood in this little complex of buildings with a little courtyard in the middle. And they said, Mr. Altman's upstairs at the back. Just go up those stairs and knock on the door. And he had an apartment up there that I guess he would use from time to time

to stay in the city if he didn't feel like driving out to the beach. And I knocked on the door. And he had an apartment up there that I guess he would use from time to time to stay in the city if he didn't feel like driving out to the beach. And I knocked on the door and he said, come in. And I opened the door and there he stood. He was standing there in a t-shirt and a bathrobe. I remember the white t-shirt underneath

and this bathrobe. And he was unwrapping a brown paper wrapped package. He says, come on in, come on in. I'm just unwrapping this. I just got back from Columbia. And I thought, uh-oh. Is this a couple of keys? What's he bringing back from Columbia?

And then he said, I was at the film festival down there and I bought some pre-Columbian art. And I'm just in. I thought, okay. And in fact, that's what it was. And he looked at me and he said, so I'm making this Western.

And I said, yeah. And he said, did you read it? And I said, that's what it was, you know. And he looked at me and he said, so I'm making this Western. And I said, yeah. And he said, did you read it? And I said, uh-huh. And he said, do you like the part? And I said, yeah. And he said, you want to do it? And I said, sure. And he said, okay.

That was my audition. Never auditioned you. That's great. No, but he never auditioned anyone. And I had really long hair because I had been growing my hair since I went to New York to do hair, you know, and I had this hair that was, you know, well past my shoulders. And he said, I like the hair. Let's keep that. Let's keep that. And in fact, his having said that, when I went off to do Tobacco Road with my dad in Florida, I thought, well, I can't have the hair for that role because I'm playing this country bumpkin out in Appalachia.

So I went down to Hollywood Boulevard before I went to Florida. And I went to some wig store on Hollywood Boulevard. I bought this wig. And I put it on. I thought, yeah, this will work. And I actually wore it on my trip down there thinking, I'll just see how well this works. And if anybody notices I'm wearing a wig, you know. Well, it was absurd. I mean, it was a terrible wig, but I thought I was looking good,

man. I thought I was getting away with it. I come out of the airport and Bobby had driven down there with my dad. They were sitting in my dad's Caddy. He had this, like a 68 Cadillac or something convertible. And they're sitting out in front when I walk out the door and I get in the car. My dad takes one look at me. He says, are you wearing a wig? That's hilarious. And then, of course, I finally get up to Vancouver. I drive up there.

I had my first car, which I bought with my tax return. I think I got a $1,400 refund from the IRS for my year in hair. And I took $1,000 of that, and I bought a 1960 Corvette. This was 1970, so it was 10 years old. I bought a 60 Corvette, and I drove that up to Vancouver. And I'll never forget driving up through this new sort of tract housing development. And then you get up to the top, and the houses stopped, and you went around a corner. And there were a couple of hillsides and sort of a parking area and there was a little guardhouse and I got out of the car and I walked

up the guardhouse and the guy had my name. He said, yeah, go in straight there, go to the, walk around the corner, go to your left. And they want you, they want you in the makeup trailer. And there was this long trailer and I walked around the corner and it was magical because suddenly there in the wilds of British Columbia was a turn of the century circa 1901 frontier mining town. Fantastic. That was actually rising from the mists in there. It was amazing. Magical.

You were, it was a, suddenly it was a hundred years ago. It was amazing. And I walked in, sat down in the makeup trailer. Altman comes in. He says, hey, kid. Yeah. He says, welcome. Glad you're here. Here, sit down over here. I sit down. He says, cut his hair off. And I was absolutely heart sick. I thought, God, my hair. He said he wanted my hair. I was really attached to that hair, man. It was 1970. It was a badge. It was like my identity. And he took one look at my face and he said,

kid, if that's where your ego is, it's in the wrong place. Wow. Never forgot that. Wow. You know, it's a small role, but it's a showy role. Well, it's a really good part. It's a pivotal part in the movie. Yeah.

And what a beautiful film, by the way. Amazing film. Yeah. It was Vilmo Sigmund and, you know, Warren Beatty and Julie Christie and everyone else, you know, but what became known as Altman's Repertory Group. Yes, Sean Shuck and all those people. All those amazing people. And Warren.

Warren was, he couldn't have been sweeter. He was just, couldn't have been nicer to me. Julie was amazing. Because you're a kid actor at this point. And I was 20. 20 years old been sweeter. He was just, couldn't have been nicer to me. Julie was amazing. Because you're a kid actor at this point. And I was 20. 20 years old. Yeah, 20 years old. Don't go away. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

I'm going away. Stop it, you. We'll be right back. action embrace a season's worth of swings with bet mgm your one-stop shop for all things baseball bet mgm.com for t's and c's 19 plus to wager ontario only gambling problem call connex ontario at 1-866-531-2600 bet mgm operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming ontario gail and frank went out to pee now they're back so they can be on their amazing Colossal Podcast. Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Podcast. So let's go. And aside from learning from your father, you said in an interview you worked with Hume Cronin and Jessica Tandy. Yeah, that was my master class.

Yeah. Working with them. That was my master class. Yeah. Working with them. That was my master class. Absolutely. You know, when I first decided I was going to do this, I was in high school and I decided,

well, I'm going to be a proper actor and I'm going to write a letter and I'm going to submit my application and I'm going to go to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London. Well, that did not happen for whatever, any number of reasons. Maybe I didn't, I don't know. The money, the going there, not being actually good enough to get in, that

could have been a factor. Anyhow, I did not do that. And when I wound up in that play with Hume Cronin and Jessica Tandy, that was, I my, my recompense for not actually having gone to Rada. You know, I got to spend, you know, a year on Broadway and then another year or another several months, actually, between Denver and Los Angeles doing that play with those two actors.

And it was a lesson every second. I'll never forget it. And, and you said how she turned, she was old when she... Oh, Jessie was, by then she was in her 70s. And she was playing,

actually, she played older than she really was physically. I mean, she was an incredibly vital, beautiful, extraordinarily beautiful woman in her 70s. And the nature of the story was,

you know, she's alone, she's lost her husband, but he's a ghost. So Hume is there as this ghost who haunts her and with whom she has these conversations and she argues. And there is a moment in the play where they flash back to their youth and when they first met and when he was courting her and they're teenagers. And Jessie, when she was playing herself, playing her older self in the play, she actually added some age to herself just by dint of posture. She would kind of stoop over a little bit

and hunch her shoulders and lower her head. And she put probably another 10 or 15 years on herself just by doing that. But there was this moment when suddenly she's supposed to be 17 and she stands up and suddenly she rises up to her full height. She straightens out her body. She had this beautiful posture and still a knockout figure. I mean, she was gorgeous. And she did that and she kind of spun around in a pirouette and she had this sort of house dress that swept down

and it came close to the floor, but the breeze from the house dress as she spun collected dust from the dirt that had been spread around the stage to make it look like Appalachia. And that dirt was dry and it had a lot of mica in it. And when she made that spin, the dust picked up and the lights from the stage lights and from overhead and from behind picked up that Micah. And suddenly there she was in like a cloud of sparkling magic. It was an unforgettable moment. And I would watch that every night from the wings. And it'll stay with me to my dying day.

It was absolutely extraordinary. A wonderful act. I could watch the two of them in anything. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. One last question about McCabe and Mrs. Miller. By the way, you're talking about the stock company,

Burt Remsen, Michael Murphy. Should mention those wonderful actors. Absolutely. Burt Remsen and John Shuck and Shelley Duvall. That was the cast of Thieves Like Us. That's right. Thieves Like Us when Bob did Thieves. Use those people. And Tom Skerritt. Again and Us. That's right. Thieves Like Us when Bob did Thieves.

And Tom Skerritt. Again and again. Did he make you do that stunt, Altman? Did he make you fall in the river? Yes. Yeah. Because you're 20. What the hell?

I was 20. It's a piano. It's called a wire pole. And they put a harness on you and they hook this thin bit of piano wire and it's attached to this hook in the middle of your back and which through is attaches to the harness. And then they have a spring pulley rigged up through this tree that was behind me and over, you know, a guide. And at the proper moment, you know, the stunt guy flips a switch and it releases that spring and it jerks you straight backwards off your feet the way a bullet would knock you back if you were hit by a bullet.

And it's a very effective visual. And they had broken the ice up a little bit because they had it planned for me to go off the bridge and land on my back in this pond and go through the ice in the pond. So they did break it up a little bit. I think the ice was a couple of inches thick. It was real ice. It wasn't wax, you know. And yeah, they set it up and they did that. And we shot it and we did it once.

And I think I had a three mil wetsuit top on underneath my wardrobe because it was ice water. I'll never forget that because as soon as I hit that water, you know the sensation you get when you hit cold water. Sure. You can't breathe for one thing. You suddenly realize it. I'm supposed to be holding my breath because I'm supposed to be dead. Right. But I was like, it was that breath that you get when you're in really cold water, which is, it was like a panting dog, you know? And I was lying in that water trying to be still and they let the run, and it runs for a good long time in the movie.

And then they finally said cut, and Bob said, get him out of there. And, you know, they yanked me up and pulled me out, and he said, come on, kid, I'll give you a drink. And he took me into his trailer and poured me a stout, nice stiff, like three fingers of scotch, and, you know, congratulated me on my willingness. It's funny because at 20, I mean, you're still a little bit green,

even though you come from a Hollywood family. Oh, I was very green. You couldn't imagine at that age the magnitude of Robert Altman, the gift you were being given to work with this guy and have him take... I knew he was a big deal because MASH was huge. Right. I mean, it was a major hit, and I was going to work with the guy who made MASH. So I did know that.

In terms of being green, yeah, I was very green because I did not grow up on movie sets. Our dad kept us away. I mean, I certainly knew what he did and I had an awareness of all of that. And I knew that he was known. I became more aware of that because of my friend's parents. They all knew him and they would make a deal about it. But I didn't know how movies were made, per se. My first time on a movie set on a gunfight, I didn't know what a mark was.

I didn't know what a key light was. It was OJT for me all the way, man, on-the-job training. The rest is whatever gifts I had naturally at my disposal. But I had to learn all of that, you know, on the job. Sure. And you were in Pretty Baby. Yeah. And you said, and there it's a very, it was a difficult part for you because it's kind of pedophilia.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for all intents and purposes. part for you because it's kind of pedophilia. Yes. Yeah, for all intents and purposes. Listen, it was a very delicate subject to begin with. No one could have handled it more delicately or with more care than Louis Malle did.

Brooke was there. She was 11 during the course of most of the shooting. She turned 12 the last week. Her mother was there on the 11 during the course of most of the shooting she turned 12 the last week her mother was there on the set all the time there was never anything there was never anything overtly done nothing graphic in that movie

it was all you understood what had happened or what was going to happen but you didn't see any of that so it was a movie that approached the subject Nothing graphic in that movie. It was all you understood what had happened or what was going to happen, but you didn't see any of that. So it was a movie that approached the subject, I thought, from an incredibly sensitive and artistic place. My task as an actor, I was then in my 30s, and I was playing this odd, odd fellow, this, you know,

Belloc, the photographer, who in actual life was virtually a dwarf. I remember when I met Louis to play the role, odd fellow, this, you know, Belak, the photographer, who in actual life was virtually a dwarf. I remember when I met Louis to play the role, I thought, I'm not right for this. But he wanted an essence in very much the same way that Robert Altman would cast essence. I mean, that's how I got that role in McCabe, was that he saw exactly what he wanted the audience to see, the taking of a completely innocent life, basically, which is the denouement on that film.

Oh, it changes the film entirely. Absolutely. And this kid who, talk about a senseless act of violence, and that was what Bob wanted to speak to. And Louis, by the same token, I think that he saw in me a nature or something

that would, in the context of those roles in that film, that would do as much as possible to take the curse off of what was actually going on in this ultimate relationship between this 30-year-old, 30-something man and this 12-year-old girl. The only way I knew to approach it as an actor at the time

was I just had to become 12. So when I was working with Brooke, in my head, I was my 12-year-old self again. I was just a little kid, sixth grade in school, with a crush on this other girl in my class. And that was the only way I could wrap my head around it. The film is actually exquisite. It's a really beautiful film. Yes, it is. And beautiful to look at too. And, uh, but it was absolutely, it was certainly daring at the time and, and, uh, um, uh, and not a film that would, that would be made today.

It's a real balancing act that you had, that you had to pull off there. Yeah. And speaking of films where you're cast against type Gilbert and I were talking about The Duelists and I say cast against type in that it's a film set in Napoleonic France it's a very strange film in that sense starring a guy from California and a guy from Brooklyn and yet it works and yet it works, well that's Ridley

obviously Ridley had a, you know, he had a vision. He's a real artist. He draws his own storyboards, you know, at least he did then. Didn't know that. Oh, yeah, no, he's a real, he's got a good hand, man. He can draw. And it was his vision. Frank Tidy was the cinematographer.

We had an operator who operated for about the first week of production, and then he just threw up his hands and went home because Ridley would constantly just say, I've got this, and he would sit in and operate, which is the European custom. That's much more common there and in England than here, where a director will also operate if they have that in their bag of tricks. It was an extraordinary experience making the movie.

The story was based on this Conrad short story, which we thought was a fiction, but then it turned out we went to Sarlat in Midi, France, which is basically the stomach of France. It's where all of the foie gras comes from and the truffles and all of that. And it's funny because I was on the road, man.

I was playing clubs with my band when this was coming around and I had met Ridley and was on the road, man. I was playing clubs with my band when this was coming around. And I had met Ridley. And I was having fun, man. I was sort of a fledgling pop star. I had a hit record. You had a hit record. That's right.

I was out there doing that thing. And I remember, I think I was in Chicago. And Ridley called up. And they'd been trying to get me to commit to this movie. And I kept saying, I don't know, about two guys who just keep fighting each other. It's kind of boring. And I was an idiot. But I was also having fun of boring. And I was an idiot, you know. But I was also having fun playing music.

And I'll never forget the phone call. Ridley called me and said, so, Keith, are you going to do our movie? And I said, ah, Red, I don't know. He said, Keith, we're shooting in Sarlat in Midi, France. I said, yeah. He said, think of the food. He knew what to say to get you there. Well, that did pique my curiosity, you know,

and I had spent a little bit of time in France before that, and I had picked up some of the language, you know, I could get by at that point. And so I went for it. And then when we got to Sarlat, we had at Le Marie, which is the town hall, the city hall, the town hall in this little 12th century village. And they had this little reception for us.

And the mayor was there. And there was this portrait on the wall above the fireplace. And they explained that that was Fournier. And I said, who's Fournier? He said, that's Fournier. That's Gabriel Ferro, who Harvey Keitel plays in the movie. That was the name of Harvey's character in the movie. It was based on a real person, Fournier, who was from that village.

So these guys dueled over the course of, what, was it 20-some-odd years? 20-some-odd years, and it's a true story. It's amazing. In fact, the story had been written up in some journal of the day, and Conrad had come across it. So he basically just took the story and been written up in some journal of the day and Conrad had come across it. So he basically just took the story and fleshed it out and wrote it up as a short story and he changed the names and people assumed that it was a Conrad fiction,

but no, it was actually a true story that had been in a journal from that time that he had come across. What a wild movie. Yeah. I've heard you say that Keitel has mellowed since then. You guys have stayed friends over the years. Oh yeah. No, I love Harvey. He's one of our great actors ever. I would say so. He's absolutely a blistering talent, that guy. And you know, that kind of

gift, it's not uncommon that one possessed of that will uh, will, uh, have a, a certain, uh, uh, need to, to be true to their gift. And, uh, and I would say that that was the case with Harvey certainly. And, uh, and so he could be, uh, meticulous and, and, uh, and, uh, on a certain level, kind of demanding, I guess about, about being as good as he could possibly be. And, you know, you got to give it up for that. Oh, he's great. He's great. He's so watchable in everything, in Fingers.

It could be a pain in the ass at times. He's so intense in that movie. No, but you look at the work and you say, hey, man, okay, it's worth it. Yeah. Yeah. I recommend to our listeners to see the duelist. He was great in Taxi Driver. Oh, my gosh.

Everything. Everything he's been in. He's terrific. Everything. Mean Streets. I mean, you know, from the get-go. Absolutely. Blue Collar.

You said, it may have been old men who said it to you you were there was one part you played and he really admired it but he said you're not gonna win the award for this there was a part you played where the director said you won't win the award because they won't see how hard you're working oh i know what that is. He was talking about Will Rogers' Follies when I played Will Rogers in the musical on Broadway. Yeah.

And it was actually, the person who said that to me was Tommy Toon, who directed the play. Oh, okay. And when it came Tony time, I did get nominated. Yes.

But Tommy tried to prepare me for the fact that, you know, he said, listen, he said um all i can tell you the highest compliment i can give you is that i know how hard you have worked to do this but no one else will because it doesn't show because your work is invisible and as a result because people aren't going to see you working hard to give the performance, they're going to think that this just came easy for you. Because there's not a lot of outward acting going on.

It's more of a... Well, yeah, it wasn't, you know, and I wouldn't say it wasn't a showy part because it was a wonderful role. It was one of the great moments of my acting life that I got to play that part in that show and sing and say those words, and it was amazing. But what Tommy Toon said was, he said,

you remind me a little bit in your acting of Fred Astaire. Wow. Who also never was given an Oscar. No, no. Because everyone always looked at Fred and just thought, eh, that's just Fred. He's not, you know. What a compliment.

Yeah, it looked like it was no effort at all. Correct. And I took that as the highest praise I could get from anyone as an actor was to be told that. Tell us about your friendship with Lee Marvin and a movie. I assume you met on the movie,

a movie that we like, Emperor of the North. Yeah, he was a good friend until he passed on. Lee was an amazing guy. And, you know, I auditioned for that part and then I auditioned again and then I auditioned again. And then I waited and waited and waited.

And then my agent called and said, okay, so they want you to do a screen test. So I went down to 20th Century Fox and I did a screen test. And in those days, that meant exactly what it always used to mean. And they suited me up in the costume and they had a little set, you know,

and Robert Aldrich, the director director directed me in this screen test. And it was shot with one of those gigantic old Mitchell BNC cameras that you see from the old photographs of movie making. And, and that's not what we shot the film with, but that, that screen test was shot with that. And then I waited again for, I think about six weeks. And then I finally got the word, you got the part. And I was over the moon, absolutely over the moon. And they said, they want you to come down to Fox and do wardrobe. So I went down there. I went to the wardrobe department and followed directions.

And I showed up there. And Marvin was already there. And he was also doing his wardrobe. And he said, hey, kid. I said, Mr. Marvin, it's good to meet you. He said, yeah, congratulations, you got the part. And I said, yeah, yeah, I got the part. He said, well, you know, he said,

every other actor in Hollywood hates your guts today. You know, that's cool. He said, so what are you doing? I said, I'm just here for wardrobe. He said, no, I mean, after wardrobe, what are you doing? I said, no, I don't know. He said, well, let's get some lunch. And I said, so what are you doing? I said, I'm just here for wardrobe. He said, no, I mean, after wardrobe, what are you doing? I said, no, I don't know. He said, well, let's get some lunch. And I said, okay.

Lee Marvin is, and he walked me over to the 20th Century Fox commissary. And he walked me in there. Man, I walked into the commissary with Lee Marvin. Yeah, that was amazing. And he introduces me around and there's like serious people in there. I can't remember, but, you know,

and he said, this is Keith Carradine, John's boy. He's going to play the part with me in this film. He just got this role and it was amazing. I thought, wow. Then I show up in Cottage Grove, Oregon, where we shot the thing. We use the train up there that there's, they've got a narrow gauge railroad

that Buster Keaton actually shot the general on. Wow. It's that same train. Yeah. And so I show up there. I show up on my first day's work on the set and it's a scene with Lee and he's there

and his wife is sitting over, you know, and so I walk over and I say hello. Hi, Lee. And he kind of says, ah, and he sort of looks away.

And I thought, well, that's weird. He was so nice back then, you know. And I said, is that your wife? And he looked at me and said, why do you want to know?

So he basically started browbeating me. And I was so taken. I didn't know what to do. You know, I was, what was I, 22 or something? And I just started laughing. And the more he browbeat me, the more I just laughed because I thought this can't be serious. This can't be, I just kept laughing.

I honestly, I didn't know what else to do. That was my knee-jerk response was just to laugh. And that's how the day went on. And Aldrich was watching the whole thing and he had this kind of wry smile on his face the whole time because he worked with Marvin over and over again. They were old friends, you know, and Ernie Borgnine. Ernie wasn't on the set that day.

And then by the end of the day, Lee came over, you know, and he said, well, it was a good day, kid. You did good. Yeah, that's my wife. That's Pam. And from that moment on, he was my best pal. And I think that that was just his test. He wanted to test my mettle and see if I could take it.

And the fact that I didn't get uptight, that I just kept laughing, that was all he needed to know. You passed the test. Yeah, we were friends from then on. And what was Ernest Borgnine like to work with? He was just great. What you see is what you get with Ernie. I mean, that's who he was. Obviously, when he played villains, that what you get with Ernie. I mean, that's who he was, you know?

Obviously, when he played villains, that wasn't the real Ernie. The real Ernie was a big, lovable bear of a man. He was just a sweetheart. But he played great villains. Oh, by God, he was terrifying. And in that movie, when he picks me up in that chair, God, he was scary.

Did Aldrich have, I know you're a big Bette Davis fan. Did Aldrich have Bette Davis stories? You big Betty Davis fan. Did Aldrich have Betty Davis stories? You know, I don't remember him telling any. He had this big chair, and there was a tray that sort of folded. It was like a sort of an oversized director's chair, and he always had this giant, it looked like a gallon-sized jug of Diet Coke or something, you know, that he would drink all day.

He was a heavy guy. And on the table that folded down, someone had meticulously used a wood-burning tool and had burned into that tabletop the title of every film he'd made up to that point. And there were a lot of them. Oh, yeah, sure. Good ones. And he came up through the ranks. Oh yeah, he came up through the ranks, so he knew every job as though he'd done them all. He might have in fact. I don't know that much about, you know, but I know he came up, and he would call crew people by their union number.

Give me a local 246 over here. Give me a local number. I love that. Yeah. And he had all these vehicles, because at one point he had his own studio called the Aldrich Studios. And he had a bunch of Land Rover Defenders, the classic. They were four-door, right?

And they were painted like a deep forest green. And they all had these brass plaques on the doors that said, The Aldrich Studios, Swift, Sensible Cinema. Love that. That's great. And you said you were nominated for the Academy Award for your song. In Nashville, yes. And you were convinced you weren't going to get it.

Oh, I didn't have a prayer. I was up against Diana Ross and the Motown machine, Barry Gordy. I mean, there was no way. And her performance was live from frigging Amsterdam. She was sitting in a, it was snowing, and there was a satellite hookup, and I thought, you know. And I'm sitting here alone on this stage, just me and my guitar. I thought this is, and I was terrified, by the way.

I mean, you know, you're sitting in that room. It was at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion still in those days. And you look at that room full of people. And then you realize that in addition to them, which is that crowd, then you've got a billion people all over the planet who are tuned into this thing. I mean, it was fairly terrifying. And just to get through the song without completely screwing it up, I thought was an accomplishment. I did make one little mistake, but nobody knows that but me. But, you know, I didn't think I had a prayer of winning that award.

It's on YouTube. Our listeners can see it. There's Angie Dickinson and Burt Bacharach. Wow. I was presented. I was handed the award by Angie Dickinson, who to this day is a pal. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. And your dad's nice. That's nice.

And your dad's there. You looked thrilled. It was the only time. I was completely stunned. And it was the only time he ever went to the Oscars. How nice. And people don't realize how much money and work it takes to get an Oscar. Like once you're nominated.

Well, you know what? That's another reason I did not expect to win because I didn't participate in any of that. I had no publicist. I had no publicity campaign. There was no Oscar campaign for my song. It was really, there was no push because nobody thought it had a chance.

The record company, ABC Records, that owned the soundtrack to Nashville, they didn't even, they had no intention of putting the song out because they didn't think it had any potential as a record. It was broken by a disc jockey in Buffalo, New York. He put it on the radio. He liked it. He heard it and he liked it and he played it one day and he got 150 phone calls in three minutes. There's one of those stories, Gil. We were just talking about that. DJs with songs that don't have a chance and then there's in the old days and there was a DJ who falls in love with a song and says, fuck it, I'm going to play it. I'm going to make a hit out of this song. It could happen. And all of a sudden there was this demand and ABC Records,

I mean, they had reluctantly put it out as a single, but they didn't sign me as an artist and it was interesting because when the film screened in New York, Geffen saw it.

David Geffen saw the movie and he called me up. That was another one of those moments, right? I was in my house in Topanga. I'll never forget it. I was in my house in Topanga and Geffen calls forget it. I was in my house in Topanga. Geffen calls up and I answered the phone.

He says, Keith. I said, yeah. He says, David Geffen. I said, yeah, right. Who is this? You know, he said, no, no, no, no. It's David Geffen. I said, okay.

He said, listen, I just saw your film, Nashville. I said, yeah. He said, I like your music. Do you want to make a record? And I said, sure. And that was how I got signed to Asylum Records by David Geffen. And we went in and started recording

and we recorded our own version of I'm Easy. John Guerin was brought in. He was the drummer from the LA Express. He produced the record. He brought in all of his buddies from the sort of modern jazz cats who were in LA. So they were all playing on my first record. People like

Lee Rittenhour and Dave Grusin did all the keyboards and did all the horn arrangements. I mean, it was amazing, the people that got brought in there. So here I had this single on Asylum and then the thing won the Oscar and you still couldn't get the record in a store because no one

had distributed it because you know, and then it just exploded. And all of a sudden I had two versions out there. I had the ABC single and I had the asylum single. So to this day, the accounting of how many records were actually sold is confused by the fact that there were those two records. So I do not officially have a gold record,

even though it was a top 10 record. Because of a technicality. Well, yeah, more than a technicality. It was just sheer boneheadedness. And it's funny because the guys from ABC, when the thing won the Oscar, they said, Keith, come make a record with us. I said, hey, you guys, Geffen already signed me.

They said, oh, no. I said, you know, you guys didn't think, yeah. And he said, oh. And it was just, it was one of those moments, man. I remember you performing that song on variety shows. I remember seeing you do it on the Midnight Special. Yes, I did. Bert Sugarman's Midnight Special.

Absolutely. And I said, hey, isn't that Keith Carradine on the Midnight Special? Helen Reddy was on that. That's right. Helen Reddy, who's standing next to you in the, well, we, isn't that Keith Carradine on the Midnight Special? Helen Reddy was on that. That's right. Helen Reddy, who's standing next to you in the, well, we'll get to that later. You know what I'm referring to. Oh, yeah, I know where you're going. I know where you're going.

One of my real epics. I had to save it for the end. Particularly proud to be a part of that one. You should be. It should be. And, oh, you said a quote that stuck with me that Sir Ralph Richardson said about acting in one of your interviews. Yes. I had a chance to meet Sir Ralph.

I was in London. It was around the Nashville opening time. And I did a talk show, which was, I believe, the Hogan, what was that, was that his name? Tom Hogan? Wogan, Wogan, Tom Wogan. Was it Wogan?

Yeah. And Ralph Richardson was also there, so I got to meet him and I told him, I said, Sir Ralph, I'm not even sure if he was knighted

at that point, but anyway, I said, I'm actually coming, I had tickets to see him that night in the Pinter play No Man's Land that he was doing with Gielgud. And he said, oh, do come backstage, dear said, I'm actually coming. I had tickets to see him that night in the Pinter play No Man's Land that he was doing with Gielgud.

And he said, oh, do come backstage, dear boy. I'd love to see you. And he says, oh, yes, do come say hello after the show. You know, so I made a point of doing that.

And I got to sit with him in his dressing room after the show. I went back and said hello. He poured me a glass of gin. That's what those guys drink. You know, at one point uh

um uh who was the the playwright i could never think of his name now but he wrote an inspector calls um anyhow big big guy must have weighed 350 pounds and he came sweeping into the dressing room and they said what did you think and he said ah well, you know, it's not much of a play really, but you've done the best you could with it. And then Gielgud came in and I can't believe I'm sitting here meeting these people and talking to these, I'm drinking gin with Ralph Richardson and John Gielgud. And then it came time to leave.

He said, well, I guess we better shove off. And we all went out the stage door and I watched Ralph Richardson, who was then in his early seventies and was already starting to show signs of his Parkinson's. He had a little bit of a head shake when he worked at that point. And he walked out that door and walked down the steps and climbed onto his Norton motorcycle and rode off into the London night. Man, I'll never forget it.

And one of the things he said about acting was that he said, well, you know, he said, great acting is really nothing more than overacting without getting caught. Oh, that's interesting. I like that. I liked what you said about acting, Keith, that with strangers, you know, the crew on the set, that you have to kind of get past this idea. See if you remember saying this. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. You're doing something so childish. Exactly.

No, it's mortifying when you think about it. I'm a grown man and this is what I'm doing. I'm standing here playing make-believe. I mean, this is what children do. And the beauty of it is that to be an adult and still be doing that is kind of wonderful and magical and amazing. But there is an element of mortification to me about that. And I've always felt that one of the things that is most important to accomplish is if you're going to be standing on the stage, it's a little different because there is a formality to that.

There is a sort of an ancientness to it. I mean, we human beings have been doing this, telling stories to other human beings, and that's all it is really. And because of that sort of an ancientness to it. I mean, we human beings have been doing this, telling stories to other human beings, and that's all it is really. And because of that sort of tradition of that, there was less of that sense of embarrassment about standing up there and doing that in the theater. But on a movie set, on some level, you've got the crew around, you've got whoever,

and you're standing in front of a camera. And for me, the first thing that I had to overcome was that sense of kind of embarrassment about that this is what I'm doing. And to be able to sublimate that and then give the performance and sort of let go of that and find some kind of sense of truth in what you're doing, believing in what you're doing, to the extent that you will have others around you also believing it. That's the challenge. And now everyone has their own technique and their way of getting to that. But I've always said that the most difficult part of it for me was overcoming the sheer embarrassment of doing it in the first place. I've never heard an actor say that. It is so refreshing. Gilbert's been in the first place. I've never heard an actor say that. It is so refreshing. Gilbert, you've been in dozens of movies.

Do you ever have that feeling like I can't believe somebody's paying me to act out here or to act a comedy, to act like an idiot? There are times, whether on stage or on TV, where all of a sudden something light goes on in my head

and I go, what the fuck am I doing right now? I'm making faces and they're staring at me. You're picking up trades. You're talking about your stand-up. You're doing stand-up comedy. To me, that is absolutely the most terrifying thing imaginable to me. Those of you who can do what you do, I stand in awe, man. I mean, you know, it's one thing to watch an accomplished musician

who has mastered their instrument. And that is a wonderful, extraordinary thing to behold. But you understand how they got to that. You understand that there were years, hours upon hours of repetition, practice by rote doing that. What you do, I don't know how you train for that, man.

And to be able to stand up in front of an audience and do that and make us laugh, and me, and I'll go back to the aristocrats because I could not breathe watching you tell my story. No, I was absolutely gasping, man. And that is to me, uh, it's as good as it gets, man. And it's also, I can't imagine anything more absolutely stone terrifying to be

doing, you know, because if you're standing out there trying to be funny and nobody laughs, what the fuck, man? Where do you go with that? You know, I guess you've never had that experience because you're a funny dude. Oh, I've had it many times. You know.

He does a thing in his act. Do you still do the thing with the trays? Oh, yes. You know, the round bar trays. And he puts them over his head and he does a Mickey Mouse impression.

And at some point, I'm watching you do this at Carolines. I'm thinking, does it occur to him? What the hell am I doing? You don't know how many times that pops into my head. What the fuck am I doing here? Well, apparently it's where you belong, man. So, you know. Keith, can I ask you a couple of quick questions from fans?

This is just a quick thing. Oh, two questions I have to ask you, but I think you already answered it. What were they? Because your father didn't allow you on the set. It's not that he didn't allow us. He just didn't take us there very often. Yeah. A few visits, but they were minimal. I need to know, because the other guy I'm as big a fan of as your father is Lon Chaney Jr.

Yeah. Have you ever met him? I did not meet him. When I went to the set of The Patsy, I got to meet Peter Lorre, because he was in that movie. Wow. I got to meet, and I'll never forget it. He came walking up, and I think I was as tall as he was, and I was maybe 12, 10 or 12. He was a short guy.

Yeah. But he came walking up, and he said, Peter, I'd like you to meet a few of my tribe. And Peter walks up, and he looks at us, and he says, my, it is a tribe, isn't it? I mean, he is a trippy dude, man. And I got to meet Kenan Wynn, and I remember being like, oh, Kenan, and when I worked with him on Nashville, I said, Kenan, you know, I met you when I was a kid. He said, you did?

And I said, yeah, I came to the set of the Patsy, man. My dad brought us in and introduced us. I'll never forget in your dressing room, you had this giant jar of dill pickles. That was the image that I came away from that set with. That and the fact that Jerry Lewis had a basketball court set up and he would shoot hoops all day. He loved to shoot hoops.

Wow. So no Lon Chaney, but Peter Lorre. No Lon Chaney, sorry. Pretty good. Yeah. Peter Lorre's pretty good. Oh, very good.

Give him a little taste of Peter Lorre. I'm putting him on the spot, Keith. Oh, jeez. Go ahead. Give him a little bit. He'll appreciate it. No, it's you who ruined it.

You and your stupid attempt to buy it. Kevin, you found out how valuable it was. Gilbert, you have to learn this line. Okay. Because it's from the great movie. Hang on. It just went out of my head. Beat the Devil.

Beat the Devil. Oh, sure. John Huston. It was directed by John Huston. And the screenwriter was John Huston and the screenwriter was John Huston and... Was it James Agee?

Oh, Truman Capote. Truman Capote, right. And Robert Marley was in the green screen. Yes, Robert Marley. That's right. And there's a line when somebody mentions

that we're running out of time and Peter Lorre, you have to do this, Gilbert. He says, no, no, you have to learn this line. Peter Lorre says, time, time, what is time? He says, no, no, you have to learn this line. Peter Lorre says, time, time,

what is time? He says, the Italians squander it, the French hoard it, the Swiss measure it, the Germans measure it, the Swiss manufacture it, and the Americans say it's money.

Wow. Isn't that a great line? That's great. You'll have to put that in the repertoire, Gil. Yes. Put it in the repertoire, man. It's deep.

Who was the other person you wanted to ask him about? Lon Chaney and... That was... Was it Karloff? I know his dad was friends with... Karloff? Yeah, I never met Karloff. Wow.

Yeah, I'm sorry. So what are we wasting time talking about? I don't know. I don't know why you even invited me. I've never met any of those guys. Let me ask you these quick. Paul Ekstrom wants to know, what's your favorite of your dad's films?

Can you pick one? Of my dad's? I'd have to say Captain's Courageous. Okay, that's a good one. You know, although his performance in Grapes of Wrath, I think is definitive. It's wonderful. But there is some emotional connection

that I have to Captain's Courageous, and I'm not sure why that is, but it just has stuck with me since the first time I saw it. And Tracy in that film and my dad in that film. And in fact, I actually own and learned a bit to play the hurdy-gurdy because of Spencer Tracy playing one in that movie. It's just, it's always been in my heart, that film. And one other quick one.

This is from Bjorn Nesheim. Was the sneeze in The Duelists unscript unscripted no that was scripted okay okay so i'm happy that he asked because that meant he couldn't tell that it was fake that's a good sneeze yeah very convincing i gotta tell our listeners to definitely watch those movies oh yeah m yeah. McCabe and Mrs. Miller and the Duelists. And you said, I think it was Altman who said to you, he complimented you on your acting. And you said something like, it gave you the permission to be good. Well, Altman choosing me to begin with kind of gave me permission. I mean, that was a serious validation.

And in this town especially, to have been selected by him and be deemed worthy by Robert Altman, yes. But also, when we were doing Thieves Like Us, he said to me at one point, and it was about two weeks into production, and I think it was when we were shooting the stuff at the little shack that we all hold up in, and it's where I first meet Shelley Duvall's character, and he said, you're a really good actor. He said, I just want you to know that you're a really good actor. And that was it for me. I mean, I have never ever felt as though, I've never, I'm still trying to be good.

What can I tell you? I mean, he told me that, and I felt that it gave me permission to strive for goodness, for worthiness. But I'm also, listen, man, I'm a classic, man. I'm as full of self-doubt as the next guy. That's interesting. And I'm never satisfied with my work. When I watch my work, I loathe myself.

Really? Oh, I see everything wrong. I don't like the way I look. I mean, I'm a classic neurotic in that way, you know? But I do think that I'm at least healthy enough mentally to recognize that fact. And when you say, when you watch your performances or just give one, are you spending the rest of your life going going i should have done it the other way absolutely don't you oh yes okay yeah i mean especially you know listen i look at films if

i go back and look at a film i did 20 30 years ago i i can't you can't help it i think oh my god if only i had known then what i have learned since you know that i could apply to that work you know and the classic is you know you're on stage i've since, you know, that I could apply to that work, you know. And the classic is, you know, you're on stage. I've done plays, you know, and you walk away from the play. And six months later, you wake up one morning and go, oh, shit, that's how I should have done that. I mean, that's every actor I know has that experience. I have to say, Keith, too, in looking at your films, you play a very likable sociopath.

Why, Thank you. In Thieves Like Us, Tom in Nashville, you're very good with unlikable. Thank you. And you're such a likable guy in real life. You must access something. Apparently there is some reason why, you know, there are great actors who've said this, so I'm quoting them, is that every role that you play, you have to find something that you love about that character. Even the most evil of characters, you have to find, you know, when I have played, my approach is I just try to find the part of myself that, given the right circumstance, would be capable of that behavior. I don't know how else to approach it.

I mean, there are other actors who are far greater than I who might have a deeper insight in terms of how they get to the truth to make it, you know, to make the audience believe what they're watching. But that's kind of my basic MO. Well, I watched you on Rachel Ray and I said to my my wife this look at this the most likable guy in the world and then i see thieves like us you know or even the character in an almost perfect affair who fair to say he's a bit of a narcissist a bit yeah yeah and then some yeah uh and you were playing a part in a movie you said, where you hated the character. That was Nashville. That's Nashville.

Nashville. I didn't like that guy. Yeah. And then Altman said something about it. Well, I didn't like the guy, and I was uncomfortable playing the guy, and I wasn't feeling as though I was doing good work even. And it was around the time we were shooting the, the, the exit in sequence. And I went to Bob and I said, Bob, I'm not, I don't know. I'm not happy with what I'm doing. I don't, I, I, I'm really unsure about

this. And I just, and he, he wouldn't even talk to me. He said, oh, you're, you're doing fine kid. And he just walked away. He wouldn't entertain the conversation. The genius was that what I came to realize later was that he knew exactly what I was experiencing. He knew the problem I was having with playing that guy because I didn't like him. I didn't like having to be that guy. I thought, I don't want people to think this is who I am. So I was just immature enough still at that point to not be able to separate myself from what I am. So I was just immature enough still at that point to not be able to separate myself from what I thought was negative about the guy.

So I just didn't like him. Well, the genius of Bob was he knew that and he let it be. And what you see in the movie is you don't see an actor who doesn't like the guy that he's playing. You see a guy who doesn't like himself. That's true.

Yeah. And it's brilliant. Yeah. And it's brilliant. Yeah. And I wish I could take credit for it, but no, man, I was just a pawn in his game. Because it was supposed to be Gary Busey and then he...

Well, originally, Gary Busey was cast in that role and then Gary dropped out to go do a pilot with... It was called... Texas Wheelers. Texas Wheelers, yeah, with...

Jack Elam. Jack Elam. And so when Gary dropped out, they moved me into that role, which, you know, I mean, you see Gary playing that role, and it's kind of a slam dunk. You go, oh, of course. You don't see a nice guy actor necessarily playing that part, but that's what gives it dimension, I think. Exactly. And Bob, you know, and he was kind of a mad genius, man. He knew exactly what he was doing.

So smart. I just want to quickly ask you about some of the Rudolph pictures, too, and talk about playing weirdos and people on the fringe as Mickey and Choose Me. Well, yeah. Another part, and I'm thinking, okay. He's a compulsive liar. He's a compulsive liar until you find out he's telling the truth. But is he?

It's such a boy and boy. Is that a wild movie? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had a good time doing that. I mean, Bob, Alan came to New York. I was doing Foxfire. I was just finishing up Foxfire with human Jesse and, and, uh, Alan came to New York, said, listen, uh, you know, Teddy Pendergrass, he had this terrible accident and Shep Gordon really wants to give him a boost. And he's got this great song called choose Me. And so Shep basically said, take this song and make a movie out of it. And so what do you want to do?

Because I want you to be in it. And I said, oh, wow, okay. Well, hey man, just let me do everything that nobody lets me do. Let me play that part that nobody will let me play. Where the guy's like, he's handy, he can fight, he's all this stuff. Because I'm like a skinny dude

and nobody ever thought of me that way. I said, let me do all that stuff. And he said, okay. And that's what he wrote. And then we went and shot it for like, I don't know, a shoestring. We shot it in downtown LA. I think we shot for 24 days, something like that, 28 days. Anyhow.

He's a bit of a sex addict too. Who? Yeah. The character. No, he's not a sex addict. Well, what? Let me, I beg to differ. Okay, correct me.

He's a love addict. A love addict. Okay. He's a romantic. Okay, I got it. He's a romantic. And what he says is that he never kissed a girl he didn't want to marry. That's true.

Now that's about as romantic as it can be. That's true. So that ain't about sex. That's really about love. And that's one of the things I love about Alan is that's about as romantic as it can be. That's true. So that ain't about sex. That's really about love. And that's one of the things I love about Alan is that's, that's who he is. He's an absolute deep, deeply romantic guy.

And that's what he responds to. And that's what he wants to look at and tell stories about. Fascinating filmmaker. And yeah. And we've just made another movie by the way. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Ray and Helen. Yeah. Ray meets Helen. Yeah. Ray meets Helen. It's coming out. It's coming out. Oh, that the way. Yeah, I know. Yeah, Ray and Helen. Yeah, Ray Meets Helen, yeah. Ray Meets Helen. It's coming out. It's coming out May 4th. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. I was saying, Frank and I were talking about all the people you worked with, and one of them is an actor who I thought would have been the ideal guest for this podcast. Who's that? Elisha Cook Jr. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I've never worked with Elisha, but, you know, obviously my dad.

And, yeah, he was amazing. You know, the people you worked with, and you were talking about it. I mean, you're marveling that you met Sir Ralph Richardson and John Gielgud. But by the time you're, what, 23, 24, 25, you've already worked with Johnny Cash, Kirk Douglas, Ernest Borgnine, Lee Marvin, who am I leaving out? Then I worked with Finney on the do-list. Warren Beatty, Julie Christie. Warren Beatty, Julie Christie, Albert Finney

for Christ's sake. Amazing. My list of legends, man. I keep compiling them. I can't believe the people I've had the chance to work with. What about Ron Steiger? Somebody we talk about a lot on this show. Oh, yeah.

Ron Steiger, Vanessa Redgrave. I worked with Richard Widmark. Oh, we love him too. Yeah. Amazing people. Now, Steiger, I heard, was one of those people that could be a little crazy in preparing for his parts. That's what I'm told. I have to say, when I did Ballad of the Sad Cafe with him and Vanessa Redgrave and Cork Hubbard and myself,

he was an absolute gent. He was great. That's nice. Could not have been sweeter. That's nice. And then he came and saw me in Will Rogers because I did Will Rogers right after that. And he came to the show and came backstage and could not have been more complimentary. And he was just a sweet guy.

How about Jack Warden? Oh, the best. Jack Warden? Oh, the best. Jack Warden. God damn it. Sorry, sorry. Hang on. Gilbert's phone's going off, Keith. We'll cut this part out.

This is about the fifth time. Can you connect? Jack. Can you connect to the afterlife? Jack Warden. Did you get a call from Jack? Yeah. That'd be a magical phone, man, if you could, you know.

I got to be in two movies with Jack Warden I never did a scene with him but I met him he was such a great actor I worked with him twice I did a television movie that was I think the 6th remake of the three godfathers

Jack Warden was in it and Jack Palance wow was that the godchild yeah the godchild exactly Frank you're good, man. You're good. You know your stuff. I watched them all.

I'm impressed. Oh, yeah. We sure you did. I do a lot of research. Oh, my God. What I could find on YouTube. What a waste of brain cells, man. You don't have to actually watch them all.

All you have to do is read a little bit and be able to talk about it, right? And what was Jack Palance like? He was impenetrable. Yeah. Yeah. You know, listen, man. I mean, he'd been at it for how long by that time? And he was out there doing this movie and making a buck, you know?

Yeah. And it wasn't that he walked through it. I mean, he was there, you know? Yeah. And he was, it wasn't that he walked through it. I mean, he was there and he was good, but he was also, Jack Palance was scary, man. He was. You know, he was scary.

I mean, you look at that performance in Shane, which to me is one of the great movies of all time. It's on my list of, you know, all time greats. His performance in that is absolutely riveting.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know? Speaking of scary performances. And he riveting absolutely yeah you know speaking of scary performances and he had that laugh you know we go what about Robert Mitchum

you made Maria's Lover Mitchum yeah Mitchum the first time I met Mitchum I actually went up to Chama, New Mexico Davey was shooting

a western up there called The Good Guys and The Bad Guys that Burt Kennedy was directing and Mitchum was in it and George Kennedy and Davey you know was playing one of the young bad guys that Burt Kennedy was directing. And Mitchum was in it, and George Kennedy and Davey, you know, was playing one of the young bad

guys. His character's name was Waco. People would call him Wacko, and he'd say, don't call me Wacko. Anyhow, and Mitchum was there, and I remember sitting with him the first time I met him, and he sat there and he was great, man. He sat and told stories about, you know, smoking ganja on the back of an elephant.

He liked the weed. Robert Mitchum. He was a pothead from way back. He ain't did time, man. He did six months for pot possession, yeah. We've heard that. Quickly, Ned Beatty, Alan Garfield, Henry Gibson. Amazing.

Any stories about these great names? All of them. They're just all great people. I mean, you know, every one of them is so gifted. Henry, his son John and I drove back from Nashville and, and, uh, in my Land Cruiser, I had driven down there, my, my, my 74 FJ, which I still have, by the way. Uh, and I'd driven that down to Nashville and I was driving back and I was going to like pick up antiques driving across the country. And, and Henry and

Lois, their son, John was, I think 17 or 18. And, uh, they said, John would, I said, absolutely come along, man. And, and so John and I drove across country together said, John would, I said, absolutely come along, man. And so John and I drove across country together and, you know, stopped and picked up. I bought an antique cherry wood trestle table in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I stopped there to visit my friend Gaylord Sartain, you know, the wonderful. Gaylord Sartain. Yeah. He's in Choose Me. He's the car. He's the car dealer. Well, he was in Nashville too. That's right. Yep. Yep. He turns, you know, Gaylord Sartain. As soon as I showed you his picture, you'd recognize him immediately. A brilliant, really brilliant comedian and a wonderful painter.

He's a very interesting cat. And how about Powers Booth that we just lost? Yeah, Powers, man. Too soon. Too soon. That was a movie I remember I recommended on the podcast. Which one? Southern Comfort one Southern Comfort

Southern Comfort yeah that's a good one Walter Hill yeah that was my second time out with Walter first time was

The Long Riders and then he came to me with Southern Comfort and he brought Powers in on that and Fred Ward I mean we had an amazing group

of people Ryan James who plays a Cajun in it I love that actor too brilliant man and we shot it in Shreveport

we have a great love of character actors on this show Keith I love that actor too. Brilliant, man. And we shot it in Shreveport. We have a great love of character actors on this show, Keith. Well, you know, the guys who do the work in the trenches. Yeah, Southern Comfort's one of those films that keeps you on edge. Very good. It's great. It's a wonderful, and it's a Vietnam allegory. I mean, you know, David Giler had written that as a way to speak to what that experience was. And, you know, it's a wonderful, and it's a Vietnam allegory. I mean, you know, David Giler had written that as a way to speak to what that experience was.

And, you know, it's a wonderful metaphor. You got a bunch of National Guardsmen in a place they do not understand, and they're armed with blanks. I mean, come on. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the great Sam Fuller. Can you tell us anything? Wow. Amazing.

I think you're the first guest we've had out of 200 that work with Sam Fuller. Really? Oh, you got to get my brother Bobby on. Bobby did the big red one with Sam. We'll do that. Yeah. Sam Fuller, man. Yeah, we did this movie in Portugal. It was all night shooting, like seven or eight weeks of night shooting.

It was called Street of No Return. And it was a classic sort of noir story. I play this singer who gets tied in with the wrong woman and her organized crime boyfriend slits my throat. And so that's the end of my singing career. And I wind up with this sort of a croco voice and I'm living on the street. And we shot it in Portugal and Sam Fuller directed it.

And he was toward the end of his potency, I guess, for lack of a better word. But he still had the knowledge, you know. And he was great, amazing, and unforgettable. And he ate cigars. He put a giant stogie in his mouth in the morning. He never lit it. And at the end of the day, it was gone. He would chew on that thing all day. And by the end of the day, there was no cigar left. He had never lit it. And at the end of the day, it was gone. He would chew on that thing all day.

And by the end of the day, there was no cigar left. He had never smoked it. He just ate them. That's fantastic. Tell us, I found this interesting, Keith. What's a golfer's part? Is that the part you play on Madam Secretary? Yeah, I've got the, you know, I used to play a little bit of golf.

I started too late to be any good at it. It's a completely ridiculous game if, you know, a good walk spoiled, as Mark Twain said. Right. But, yeah, it's the role that you have on a TV series, which is, I guess, how you would describe the role I have now, where you're not in every shot. You're not in every scene. You're not even in every episode. But you're there just enough to pay the bills, And then the rest of the time you have off, but you don't have, you can't do another job because you've got that job. You're committed to that job. So what are

you going to do? Well, I guess I'll play golf. Did you ever heard that? Have you heard that term? The golfer's part? I love that. And my wife and I absolutely loved Fargo. Oh, thanks. And loved you and Alison Tolman together. Thank you, thank you. What great television. And Noah Hawley is some kind of mad genius. He is a mad genius, absolutely. He channeled the Coen brothers.

It's kind of weird. And so completely did he channel them that, you know, they read the script and then they went, did we write this? You know, I mean, I'm making that up then they went, did we write this? You know, I mean, I'm making that up. But basically, they did not have to put

their name on that show. You know. Of course. And they agreed to it because they thought it was such an accurate reflection of their sensibility. It more than does

the movie justice. Truly. I mean, it's like he took the movie and then took off from there. I'm going to make Gilbert watch it. And you also got to work with your daughter.

We don't want to leave out mentioning Martha Plimpton. I did. You got to do Raising Hope. I finally got to do an episode of Raising Hope. It took years for me to do Martha. Years. I haven't tried for years. Listen, my daughter Martha Plimpton is a force of nature.

She is funny. I think she's one of the giant gifts in our industry. She's amazing. Her talent, her theatrical talent, her work in films. She's an amazing singer. She's extraordinary. She's a great deadpan comic on that show. And a great deadpan comic.

And I've been waiting for years to be able to stand on a movie set with her and learn from her. And she finally gave me the chance. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. So before we let him go, I want to torture him by bringing up Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts. Hey, man. Are you kidding? I'm in good company. Look at that group standing on the bleachers at the end of that.

I think I was standing next to Carol Channing. Well, singing the Beatles? I'm standing with Carol Channing singing the Beatles? By the way, 50th anniversary. That movie is 50 years old. One of those infamously. No, it can't be 50 years old because I'm only 68. There you go. I was in my 20s when I did it. Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry.'t be 50 years old because I'm only 68 there you go

I was in my 20s when I did it oh excuse me I'm sorry it's 40 years old 1978 I misspoke that I would believe

that was one of those movies you watch where you go didn't anybody making this go hey you know I think this is pretty bad

can I can I can I share something with you guys nobody's nobody's listening no no trust me I've never actually seen it Can I share something with you guys? Nobody's listening No Trust me

I've never actually seen it Well I saw parts of it and you didn't miss anything Well you know your scene But I did see I caught the clip of the end It's on YouTube So I did see that moment of myself standing there, sort of

bouncing up and down and singing. You're standing next to Helen Ruddy in front of Frankie Valli. In front of Frankie Valli, and I'm just behind, I think, Carol Channing. Just behind Carol Channing. And here's my favorite, right behind you to your right is Dame Edna.

Oh my God, that's right. your right is Dame Edna. Oh my god, that's right. I forgot about Dame Edna. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Sgt. Pepper's Lonely But, you know, you're a musician. The musical chops of the people that are in that thing. Dr. John is in it. Del Shannon. Donovan, for Christ's sake. Dr. John.

Curtis Mayfield and Wilson Pickett, not bad. And Tina Turner. You heard that Dr. John story? He did a movie. I think Tom Waits told me this. I think they did a movie called Big Rock Candy Mountain or something like that. That sounds familiar. Maybe I've got it wrong.

Anyhow, they were talking, and as will happen on a set, somebody started talking about acting, and somebody got on the subject of method acting, and Dr. John said, well, I guess you'd have to call me a methadone actor. How did you wind up doing that thing? Were you on the set? Did they just say, come down? And no, they just called people's management, whatever agents, and then just gathered as many people as they could. They wanted this bleacher full of, you know, recognizable faces, I guess. And at that point I was, I had become a known entity. So

there I was. Did you schmooze? I mean, you're only a couple of spots from George Burns. Yeah. I don't know. I don't remember that much about the day. I just remember that there was a kind of a surreal atmosphere to it. It was really weird. Yeah.

Well, I've heard you say you're proud to be involved in one of the great inept moments in pop culture history. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've heard you say you're proud to be involved in one of the great inept moments in pop culture history. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually very proud because of the company I was in. Oh, my God. I mean, if you're going to be in something that notoriously misses the mark, you want to be standing on bleachers with a crowd like that.

Carol Channing. And George Burns. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. It's wild that they managed to scare all those people up. There's some genuine legends there. And scare would apparently be the word.

Yeah. And also, and this is a while ago, Keith, but it connects to one of our previous guests, and that's Norman Lear, who we had here. And you did this eight years ago or nine years ago here and I want to direct, and you did this eight years ago or nine years ago, but I want to direct people

to check out Born Again American. Yes, Norman came to me. I was, we actually met at a New Year's Eve party out of James Keech's house

and I was, James had a guitar hanging on his wall in his studio that I pulled off and was playing. It was a beautiful old Gibson

and I wanted to, you know, and it was a nice guitar and in the course of that I was playing a song I Gibson. And I wanted to, you know, and it was a nice guitar. And in the course of that, I was playing a song I had written, which I refer to as my geezer protest song. Yeah. Because I wrote this protest song. It's a Pete Seeger kind of thing.

Well, I wrote a protest song in 2006, about the time, because I thought we were headed for the abyss. You know, little did I know how much farther down the hole we would go. But I wrote this song then called Orphans of Oblivion. And I referred to it because I said, I'm too old to be writing protest songs, man. I'm, you know, I was already then in my fifties, you know, and I said, so I'm going to call this geezer protest. And I had sung that song and Norman had walked into the room while I was singing it. And then he introduced himself.

I'd never met him, you know. And he said, did you write that? And I said, yeah. He said, I want you to write a song for me. And I said, okay. And he told me about this movement that he was, you know, he's very political. He's very progressive. And, you know, he went around the country with that copy of the Constitution.

He sure did. Yeah. He's a really amazing guy. And I said, absolutely. What is it? He said, a really amazing guy. And I said, absolutely. What is it? He said, I have the title. And I said, what's the title? And he says, it's called born again American. And I said, okay. And he basically told me what he wanted the song to do, what he wanted it to speak to the points he wanted it to make. So it was the only time I've ever sat down and written a song kind of on assignment with a very strict set of guidelines. And I'm

kind of proud of what we came up with, you know? And what they made of it, with the organization Playing for Change got all these musicians around the country at these iconic locations like Mount Rushmore and the St. Louis Arch. It's really quite moving. And I wrote it in a kind of a classic 60s folk style.

It was an homage to Dylan, frankly, and Blowing in the Wind and songs like that. So I play it in a finger-picking style, and the chords are evocative of that. And so I wanted to speak to that at the same time. And then we wrote very specifically to the American condition, the American experience. And Norman, what he was really wanting to do

was he wanted to take the notion of patriotism back for all Americans rather than that being a word that is strictly applied to the right. That you can be a lefty and also be a patriot. Absolutely, he is. He's one for sure. I want to direct our listeners to that Born Again American online

and look for it. It's a very touching piece of work. Congratulations. Thank you. We have anything else to torture this man with? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, please. Oh, let me see. I can't think of anything. I'm out of bullets. Yes. We've covered just about

everything. If you're out of bullets, you throw the gun, man. Yeah, that was in every Superman. Oh, I got one. I got a good one. Doing Love American style with your pop. Oh, my God. Yeah, okay.

You actually dug that one up. Listen, I did that actually for my pop. I mean, he was going to do that, and it was the concept of, you know, it was a flashback to this couple. So here they are in their later years, and then it flashes back to the same couple 50 years before, 40 years before, and Dad thought it would be interesting if I were to play him, you know, 40 years younger.

And Love American Style was not something that at that point in my career I would have dreamt in a million years that I would do, that I would want to do. It was certainly not what you would call a good career move. But, you know, sometimes you do things out of love, man. And I love my dad. And he wanted that to happen, so I did it. So it's a nice memory.

Yeah. Yeah. And didn't you guys do, was you, David, and Robert just did a fall guy together? We did. Yeah, we appeared on the fall guy. Actually, dad did the fall guy.

Uh-huh. And it was a Halloween episode, which was why they had him on there because of his horror film, you know, Legacy. And it was Halloween and Davey and Bobby and I

decided we'd surprise the old man and show up on the set. And they were up for that and they were interested in that and they wanted to make some sort of a publicity deal out of it. So they kept it a secret

and we surprised dad and it was sweet. That's nice. What's coming up, Keith? I know you're still doing Madam Secretary. Doing Madam Secretary and I've got Ray Meets Helen

is going to come out May 4th. Alan Rudolph. Alan Rudolph. We have once again got together and made a movie for nothing because that's what we do. You and Sandra Locke. Yep.

Yeah. Yep. Sandra Locke, amazing. And Keith Davids in it. It's a wonderful, wonderful group of people. Yeah. Jennifer Tilly. Yeah.

You are busy. I need to stay busy, you know, because otherwise I'll die, man. busy, you know, because otherwise I'll die, man. Will you come to New York and do some more stage so we can meet you in person? Absolutely. I'm sorry I didn't get to see you guys today. I'm actually going to be in New York this Saturday, but you know, this was the date that worked out for all of us. So I'm afraid we had to do it this way, but I'd love to talk to you guys again. You're the best. Oh, this was an absolute special experience for us, Keith I'm afraid we had to do it this way, but I'd love to talk to you guys again. You're the best. Oh, this was an absolute special experience for us, Keith,

and you're one of those guests that just brings it. Well, thanks, man. What do you think? You didn't leave me any choice. I will say that. Well, before my phone rings again, I should start wrapping up this show.

You should see him live when you're in New York, by the way. That's what I want to do. In fact, when are you gigging next? Tell him. Oh, I think I'm doing Caroline's. On the 29th, you're at Caroline's. 29th of March? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, when's your next gig in April? Because I'm not going to be back there until after the 30th. God, if I don't have my date book in front of me, I don't know. We'll make it work. You really should see him live, Keith. It's an experience. You know, have your people call my people. And let me know when I can catch Gilbert.

You won't be sorry. By my people with Jews. Oh, shh. People would choose. Now tell me how great I am again before we get off the air. The aristocrats, Gilbert Gottfried, gold standard. No one has topped that. No one ever will. It was a moment of sheer genius.

How about that? Thank you. I'm going to direct him. That's all I care about. I'm going to direct you to YouTube. See if you can find Gilbert in the Bob Saget roast. Oh, God. That has to be excruciating.

Yes, I will live for that. It is. Okay, guys. Well, we've been talking to the son of Baron Latos. And Herman Munster's boss. Yes, the son of Mr. Gateman. Oh, that's right. Yes.

And a man who played both Wild Bill Hickok and Buffalo Bill Cody. Yes, that's correct. And he was Dracula in Dracula Meets Billy the Kid. Yes, he was. Yes, he was. And you know who else was in that? Who? Dobie Carey.

Oh! Yep. I wish I'd known that the last time I saw Dobie. I didn't realize that. He was a friend, you know? You going to do any more work with, I know you're a TCM guy too. You going to do any more work with them? I loved your Western introductions. I am, actually.

They just got in touch, and I'm gonna do an evening with Mr. Mankiewicz. We're gonna introduce, yeah, we're working on that now. I'm not sure exactly when it's gonna happen. It'll be in the near future, and I'm gonna, we're gonna pick four films, and I'm gonna talk about them and introduce them

and, you know. Terrific. I worked with Robert Osborne. We're going to pick four films, and I'm going to talk about them and introduce them. Terrific. I worked with Robert Osborne. He got to pick four. He was a sweet man. Darling man. We had him on the show. He was one of those guests.

My gosh, the knowledge he had. You just click on the mic and... A gentleman. A real gentleman. He was a really good guy. My God, encyclopedic knowledge. Yes, ridiculous. Heath, this was a really good guy. And my God, encyclopedic knowledge. Yes, ridiculous. Keith, this was a wonderful trip down memory lane for us.

Thanks, you guys. We're so thrilled you came. Me too. So we have been talking to the great Keith Carradine. Thank you, Keith. Before Gilbert's phone goes off again. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Thank you. I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm Thank you. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis, and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. Thank you.