Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 210. Willie Tyler & Lester

Episode Date: June 4, 2018

Gilbert and Frank welcome a favorite performer (sorry...performers!), legendary ventriloquist Willie Tyler and his longtime partner, Lester, for an entertaining conversation about the history of the "Chitlin Circuit," ventriloquism-themed horror movies, the mob's influence in Vegas and and the golden age of "the Motown Sound." Also: Steve Rossi teams with Slappy White, George Kirby channels Pearl Bailey, Edgar Bergen offers sage advice and Willie opens for Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder. PLUS: Jules Podell! Shari Lewis & Lamb Chop! Don Rickles takes a front seat! Lester meets George Jefferson! And the many talents of Paul Winchell!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. 1800 Tequila believes that taste

is more than just a detail. It's everything. Taste changes the game. It attracts all the attention. Taste elevates everyday moments into extraordinary experiences. Savor the best taste in tequila. 1800. Taste is everything.

Please enjoy responsibly. I'm Tim Matheson, and you are listening to the amazing, colossal Gilbert Gottfried's fucking podcast. Hold on a second. That's the one. That's it. That's the one. Now, I am Tim Matheson, and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal fucking podcast.

I'll give you a straight one. Thank you, buddy. Hey, I'm Tim Matheson, and you are listening to Gilbert Godfrey's amazing, colossal podcast. Now say fuck. Give me the best. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is a comedian, actor, and world-famous ventriloquist and one of the most popular and enduring entertainers of the last 50 years. Appearing on TV and in films, headlining in nightclubs and Vegas hotels, films, headlining in nightclubs and Vegas hotels,

and even recording a hit comedy album entitled Hello Dummy. You also know his work for movies like Coming Home and Americathon, TV game shows such as Match Game and Hollywood Squares, and dozens of sitcoms, talk shows, and variety shows, including Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In, The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, The Flip Wilson Show, Sammy and Company, The Merv Griffin Show, The Jeffersons, The Hollywood Palace, Jimmy Kimmel Live, and The Late Show with David Letterman to name a few. he helped introduce the world to future music legends

Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, The Supremes, The Four Tops, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder. And he would go on to work with and alongside icons like the Jacksons, Sammy Davis Jr., Jane Fonda, Steve Allen, Flip Wilson, Lily Tomlin, Muhammad Ali, and John Wayne. Please welcome to the podcast a man whose long and successful showbiz journey began with an ad for ventriloquism school in Popular Mechanics magazine. The fabulous Willie Tyler and Lester. Don't forget Lester. Wow, wow.

He's on the way. Oh, he's on the way. He's out. Oh, he's stuck in traffic. His skateboard is outside someplace. He's trying to find a place to put it. You like that intro? Yeah, wow. There's a lot of stuff there.

As you were saying, as you were talking, it reminds me. It reminded me. Oh, what? That reminded me of all that stuff as you were talking. Yeah, you've done a lot of stuff, Willie. Yeah, I had forgotten about that. And we worked together, and I can't for the life of me. Well, we didn't actually work together.

We both appeared on one show. Yeah, we were in a room together doing something, waiting for something. I remember that well. Yeah, we were at read-through, and we said hello, and the first thing I said to you is, where's Lester? And you pointed to a box on the floor. And I remember thinking, what a scumbag this Willie Tyler is that he puts Lester in a box. No, he's a hermit. He's a hermit.

But you didn't even punch air holes. No, he's used to that kind of stuff. Oh, and my son, eight years old, wants to say hello to you. Oh, he met him. Yeah, I met him. Yeah, I met him. I met him there. Yeah, Darrow was at Chiller Fest in New Jersey, and Willie was signing autographs,

and Darrow walked over there with Max. Yeah. Yeah, I was signing autographs for Lester, too, because I have power of attorney. Oh, very smart. Yeah. But you can't figure out what you guys worked on together. Hang on.

No. The phone's going off, Willie. That's all right. For the life of me, I just remember sitting in a read-through. What if we went through all of Willie's credits on IMDb and maybe something will jog your memory? You know, I'm trying to think. Well, it either had to be here out in L.A. or New York. My guess is it was L.A.

There's only two places. Is Willie familiar with the ventriloquist act that you and Belzer used to do? Oh, yeah. I used to. Me and Richard Belzer used to do a ventriloquist act called Dick and Stinky. And I'd sit on Richard's lap, and he'd go, hey, welcome to the show, Stinky. And I'd go, this audience can go fuck themselves. It was a blue ventriloquist.

Oh, boy. You know what? It was a blue ventriloquism. Oh, boy. You know what? Basically, in my act, nine out of ten times, it's like, we don't even do expletives, but what happens, the reason why we won't say the F word, the reason why I can't say the F word, because my lips will move. Oh, my God. That's great. That's great.

You ever try to say it without moving your lips? Oh, wow. that's great. That's great. You ever try to say it without moving your lips? Oh, wow. Yeah, that's difficult. So do you try to take all F words, all words that start with F out of the bit? No, but it's just that particular word. That's a strange sounding word. Interesting.

So as a fan, so the only reason you don't say fuck in your act is because the lips move. It didn't stop Otto and George. So Gilbert alluded to it in the intro, Willie, but tell us about, I found this fascinating, the ventriloquism school in Michigan. Yeah, what, you were just reading Popular Mechanics or how did this come up? Tell us about, I found this fascinating, the ventriloquism school in Michigan. Yeah, what, you were just reading Popular Mechanics or how did this come up? No, no, I started ventriloquism, trying to fool around with it when I was about 10 years old. But I was in school one day, elementary school, and in the library they had a magazine, Popular Mechanics magazine.

And in that Popular Mechanics magazine, they had an ad. An ad was in the back of the magazine. It said, learn ventriloquism. And this particular school, Correspondence School, was just outside of Detroit in Grosse Pointe Woods. You know, that's where Ford, the guy that built all the cars,

that's where, you know, it's a very affluent area. But anyway, it's like my teacher one day, we drove out to the school, to the correspondence school. We drove out there, and the lady, Madeline Mayer, I talked to her, and I got a correspondence course. For $35, I got a correspondence course and a little thing called a ventriloid.

It was a little plastic thing. I don't know. You put it in your mouth, and then you say exercises with it. They made it up. I love it. Yeah, ventriloid. So I got that, and then you say exercises with it. They made it up. I love it. Yeah, so I got that, and then I got a little, and then I got a Jerry Mahoney character. She gave me a Jerry Mahoney character with the course. Love it.

That was before Lester. I love it. Now, I heard, was the Jerry Mahoney doll you got then was later painted black? No, no, no. She painted them. She painted them for you. No, because she had a mail order situation where she sold figures to people all over the world. So she made the figures.

She made figures up. She painted them and all that kind of stuff. But she wouldn't put the mechanics in. She sent it to someplace, somebody in Ohio. They would put the mechanics in, and they would send them back to her. But she, right there when I went into her house there, out in the little room that she had there, it was outside. It was like a patio. That's where she painted all the characters and stuff like that.

It was very interesting. The Fred and Madeline Mayer School of Ventriloquism. Fred Mayer School of Ventriloquism. And you had a black Jerry Mahoney. Yeah, she painted him brown for me. And how old were you when you first started taking the course? I think I was about 12 years old when I first started taking the course. Wow. It was like we would get correspondence in the mail,

and it would be like basically every two weeks you get a couple of pages and stuff like that. And she would put little jokes in there too. Now, what did your parents think? Well, when I first started doing this, everybody would look at me out of the corner of their eyes. It was like nobody thought, they thought something was not right there. There was no show business in your family, Willie? No. Nothing?

No, no. My dad worked at Ford Motor Company, and my mom, my mom never worked. She just stayed home, because there was 10 of us. There was 10 of us. Wow. She just stayed home, took care of the kids. I was growing up, my dad, he was a mechanic, and he worked at Ford Foundry and all that stuff. But what happened was, in Detroit, you're familiar with Showtime at the Apollo, right?

Sure. Now, in Detroit, they used to have theaters around the city. And what happened was, they would have shows in those theaters. and what happened was like they would have shows in those theaters and it was a situation where they would have a Class B movie, they'd show a Class B movie, then they'd have the amateur show

and then after the amateur show, they would have the professional show but I would be on the amateur show but man, if you remember seeing the Showtime at the Apollo and you see the audience go after the amateurs when they're on the stage. It's bleak.

It's really bleak, you know, because they heckle them and all that kind of stuff. That was the same kind of situation I went through. You know, they understood. If a guy played a harmonica and he came out on stage, they understood that. You know, a vocal group came out. That was fine. Exotic dancer. We used to call them shake dancers.

Shake dancer. Yeah, yeah. When they would come out, That was fine. Exotic dancer. We used to call them shake dancers. But exotic dancer. Shake dancer. Yeah, yeah. When they would come out, they understood that. But then when the emcee, Homer Jones, I never will forget his name, Homer Jones, because he used to pick me up at the house and drive me there. He was the emcee. So anyway, he would introduce me, and I'd walk out with this little character.

Now, this is before I got the mayor, Jerry Mahoney. Okay. I made up, I jerry-rigged a character out of my sister's doll. You know, I did one of those MacGyvers. You took your sister's doll.

Yeah. And I would walk out on stage with this particular thing. It was made up of with a rubber band, a straight pen, and a string.

It was weird, you know. And as I walked out, as I walked on stage, you know, the audience, they were really boisterous and loud and stuff. And he introduced me

and I walked on stage. You ever seen that, what is that, EF Hutton commercial? Sure. Yeah. Remember when EF Hutton talks,

people listen. Yes. No, no, they got quiet. Yeah, they got quiet. But as I walked out and i cleared the wings and walked on stage the light hit me it was like nothing you know the people were like they were in shock like what what is this what is this kind of and then then they got

over the shock and then they went through that's when the heckling started you know but it was like when you're 10 and 12 a year old kid you know-old kid, you kind of go through that, and it kind of gets to you. And at the end, what happened was like it was a contest. So at the end, Homer would line up everybody, the emcee, and what he would do is put his hand over each contestant or each group, and people would applaud or boo or whatever, you know, number one, number two, number three. Anyway, when it got to me, it was like a boo or whatever, you know, you know, number one, number two, number three. Anyway, when it got to me, it was like a lot of boo, you know, and, and I would go home

every night and I say, I'm not going to do this anymore. You know, I didn't want to do this anymore. Of course. So what happened was like, but then two weeks later I did it again. I did it again, you know, but I kept, I kept doing it and then I start winning. I started winning the contest. Good for you. How old are you now when you're doing this?

10, 11? No, 10, 11, 12, 13. Another guy like you, Gilbert, who got on stage as a kid. Oh, my God, yeah. First time I got up on stage, I was 15. Oh, yeah, yeah. Both of you are crazy. That's good, though.

Didn't you also say you remember, like, Smokey Robinson getting heckled? Let's see. Oh, at the Apollo. You said that was a tough room. Oh, yeah. No, no, the Apollo. Well, you know, from New York. You ever been at Apollo?

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, we used to work there a lot at the Apollo. And the first time that I went there was like with, when I was at, I got with Motown so we went there

with the Motortown Review, you know, and it was like, you know, a little Stevie Wonder back in those days. Oh yeah. Oh wow.

And Marvin Gaye and Mary Wells, all those folks, you know, on one show. But when you go to the Apollo, when you go to the Apollo, when you go to the Apollo,

even entertainers who are very professional and they've been around for a long time, when they would go to the Apollo, they would sweat because they never knew if the audience would accept them or not. They could have a Megan Seller record, they'd come out there

and the audience would heckle them if they didn't like what they were singing. You know, that kind of a situation. But it was like, it was a fun place to be though, to go there because it's like baptism by fire. Yeah, I saw some of the marquees, and this is the Motortown Review, and you were the emcee.

So it's like you, Junior Walker and the All-Stars, the Marvelettes, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, for $65. For $65? Yeah, to see the whole show. That was

the price on the... Did you say $65? Yeah. $65. $65. Do I have this wrong? $65? No, that's a lot of money. 65? Yeah. Or 65? 65 bucks. Do I have this wrong? 65 bucks? No, that's a lot of money. How much was it?

No, it was $2. $2 or $3. $2? Per person, yeah. I'm stunned. No, no. Well, that was back in the 60s. You know, 60s, latter 60s and beginning of the 70s.

Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. I have to double check what I was looking at. You could buy a new car back in those days for $6,000, you know. You know, inflation. And you, like, back then when you were working these places, well, the Jews, of course, had the borscht belt. Catskills. Yeah. Catskills.

Yeah, Catskills. And tell us about the black entertainers. You mean what venues they worked? You mean the Chitlin Circuit? Chitlin Circuit. Well, basically, the Chitlin Circuit was basically, they had some summer resorts. Some summer resorts that somebody's performance would work. Or just in the neighborhood, they would have clubs, just predominantly black clubs.

And those were the venues that they would work. If they had a record out, they would go there and plug their records and be successful performing in those particular venues. You worked with the Funk Brothers and Lloyd Price and people like that. Well, the Funk Brothers were Motown. You know, they did the sessions in Motown, but then they did the documentary. did the sessions in Motown, but then they did the documentary. So when they did the documentary, they had the Funk Brothers and they traveled around the country with other acts performing Motown songs. But the Funk Brothers, the drummer was Benny Benjamin, the real Funk Brother, and James Jamerson was the bass player. Those two guys, I remember

working with them in a little place up in the Idlewild, Michigan. It was a black summer resort. Summer resort, but it was black. And Lloyd Price would work up there. A lot of acts would come up there and work for the summer. Mr. Personality. Oh, yeah, yeah. You got personality.

Personality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You worked at a lot of strip clubs. Well, I didn't work a lot of, I remember one that stands out a lot is the one in Detroit.

It was called The Brass Rail. And The Brass Rail was like, and I remember a particular dancer, she would work that club a lot.

It was like her club. She didn't own it, but she would, everybody would come there to see her and her name was Lottie the body

and she was Lottie the body she had those little she had those those little fringes fringes on the back on the back of her oh yeah

right there and when she's doing the show she turned to the audience and the drummer every time you right there. And when she's doing the show, she'd turn to the audience and the drummer, every time she moved, the fringes would jump so the drummer would hit the top hat

each time she would do that. She would do one time, the left cheek, the left cheek, the left cheek, right cheek, right cheek, right cheek,

then both cheeks, both cheeks. She was great at that cheeks she was great at that she was great at that whatever happened to Lottie the body I guess she retired I guess

basically yeah she got a 401k and what were the reasons for hiring the comics you once explained that yeah the reason why is because back in those days

they had like a live music trio. Now, in Detroit, they had a union. So the trio, they would work X amount of time a night on stage for the dancers. Then they had to take a break because the union, they had to take a break three times a night, 30-minute breaks, three times a night. So the comic would go up and fill in the time while they took their break. And it was like, it's an interesting thing to go there and work a strip joint

where the guys come in. Some women would be in there, but mostly guys would be in there. And they wanted to see the women. And all of a sudden, you got a comic on stage trying to tell jokes. That's rough.

Trying to be funny, yeah. And you'd be on stage and all of a sudden you hear something fall at your foot and they would throw a penny. Yeah. They've been on stage

when it's not like they threw a penny or threw a quarter on stage. That's insulting. That's very insulting. That's not happening, Gilbert.

Did you ever work with strippers? You never worked with a stripper or an exotic dancer? Never a real. One time I did something for the Hustler Club. Okay. But I never actually worked a strip club.

Uh-huh. Now, what's interesting. Oh, another thing, too. Because it was a strip club, we didn't have a dressing room. We would come dressed. But it was the idea we would we would be in the room with the strippers they had a TV in there

you know it was a TV in there and then they they wanted to strip I mean if they wanted to change they'd go in the back and change some would go in the back

some women would go in the back if a guy if the guy was sitting in there if the comic was sitting in there but some women there's a couple of women they when they came in

you know they didn't they didn't care. You were sitting there, and if they said leave, you would leave. But if they didn't say leave, you sit there, and they would change. Because they didn't tell you to leave, so you just sat there and you watched it. Yeah, you're not going to leave on your own. No, no, you wouldn't leave on your own. I remember when I did this thing at that Hustler nightclub. I wound up sitting there in, oh, I think we were filming something earlier in the day.

And I wound up sitting there in the dressing room. And I wound up sitting there in the dressing room. And then the strippers started coming in and changing in front of me and walking around naked. And I, of course, you know, I'd still be there. Yeah, because she didn't say anything. At one point, someone said, you know, there's a guy sitting there for the past hour. With a drool cup yeah yeah so I was asked if I could leave the dressing room

oh yeah yeah you have to be asked if nobody says anything but some strippers would be in there and when they came in they would look at me and go Willie Willie, do you mind? Then I'd get up and go out. Wasn't it a stripper or a dancer, Willie,

who touched Lester and broke something on him, and that was the last time you let anybody touch him? Yeah, it was like being in the dressing room. It's like one stripper was there, and she was a very attractive little stripper, you know, and she would ask,

she said, well, how does he, how does he, how does he work? You know, so, you know,

it was like, it was kind of melting like butter, you know, the way she talked to him. Uh-huh. Oh boy, oh boy.

So, I showed her how he worked, you know, and I didn't really show, I took her hand and, you know,

and sort of showed her how he worked. And so she put her hand on Lester's controls. And what happened was like, and then she took her hand out. And so it's time for me to go on later. So I go on stage. And I'm on stage and I'm talking. Then Lester's talking. Then I look at Lester and Lester looks at me.

And when he looks at me, one eye goes this way. One eye goes that way. So what happened was like she, instead of like pulling down on the control, she pushed out on the control and it broke. But I didn't realize that until I got on stage. So I said after that, never again. Never let a stripper handle your partner, Gilbert. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor.

Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens

once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Now, you once met, you went out of your way to meet the legendary ventriloquist Edgar Bergen.

Edgar Bergen, Mm-hmm. Edgar Bergen, let's see. He lived in Detroit and there's a place across the river in Windsor, Ontario called the Elmwood Casino. And that was back in the days of big nightclubs and stuff like that. So he was in town

and I was doing, back in those days, I was doing like the Mike Douglas show and the Merle Griffin shows and stuff. So basically, he knew who I was doing, back in those days, I was doing like the Mike Douglas show and Merle Griffin shows and stuff. So basically he knew who I was. I mean, I didn't know until I got over there. But I went across through customs and stuff. Like I had Lester in the trunk, you know.

And I was kind of lucky because it was a situation where the customs didn't, they didn't open the trunk or anything like that to see what was in the trunk. They might have thought I was working or something to that effect. But anyway, Lester, I was able to get Lester through there. It was a Wednesday night.

And back in those days, the club wasn't really full that night. It was the middle of the week. And back in those days, the middle of the week, the weekends were packed. But the middle of the week was kind of weak. And what that was like. I watched his show and he did a very amazing show. The show was very good. He had a thing in his act where

it was supposed to be raining and he took a pail and he put it on the floor and you could hear the water dripping in the pail. After the show, I went to the Mayor D. I said, Mr. Bergen, is he around? He says, he's right in that room right there.

The guy says, maitre d', he says, he's right in that room right there. So I went and knocked on the door. They were in a little small room, I think he and his wife. And he said, come in. I opened the door, and he was in there. They were eating dinner. And I felt kind of bad. I didn't want to disturb people eating dinner.

Sure. And he looked at me, he recognized me from the TV shows. He said, oh, hey, how you doing? How you doing? He says, come on in, come on in. So I went in and I started talking to him. And then as we talked, he says, do you have your character? Meaning Lester.

I said, oh, yeah, he's in the car. He says, bring him in, bring him in, bring him in. So I went and got Lester and brought him in. And he wanted me to do a couple of things for him. And as I did it, back in those days, what I would do, when Lester talked, he was animated. Lester was animated. But then when he wasn't talking and I was talking, he was like staring out. He was just staring.

Just stationary. Yeah, he wasn't moving. And then Edgar Bergen says, you know what you're doing wrong? He says, you've got to keep him animated all the time. Even though he's not talking, to make things work, you've got to keep him animated. So basically, I learned that from him.

You know, when you see Lester, Lester's, even if he's not talking, he's looking at stuff or looking around or looking down and stuff like that.

I love when he does that little thing where he kind of tilts his head toward you, like, get a load of this guy. Well, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got that from Paul Winchell. He plays to the audience. Yeah, we got that from Paul Winchell. Paul Winchell used to do that with Jerry Money. He's like, get out of here. You know, one Winchell. He plays to the audience. Yeah, we got that from Paul Winchell. Paul Winchell used to do that with Jerry Moore,

and he's like, get out of here. You know, one of those deals. He used to do that with his little character. Tell us about Paul Winchell. He was a fascinating... I think Paul Winchell inspired Willie to do this. It did, because we had gotten our television set, which was a black and white TV. Back in those days, black and white TVs.

And he had a show from New York, coming from New York, and was sponsored, I remember it was sponsored by Spydale Watch Bands. I remember that was a sponsor. Wow. Winchell Mahoney time. Yep. Scotty Waddy Doo Doo. Yeah. Hooray. Hoorah.

It's Winchell Mahoney time. It's Winchell Mahoney time. Let's have some fun. Hooray. Hoorah. We're glad everybody's here. Come on. Let us give a cheer for everyone. Put on your happy faces.

And the kids sang that song. Yeah. Scotty, what do you do? Scotty, what do you do? Scotty, what do you do? We are dating ourselves. I watch that show all the time. Yeah, it was like I was fascinated on how he made his little character, Jerry Mahoney and Knucklehead Smith.

Knucklehead Smith. Yeah, Knucklehead Smith spelled his name S-M-I-F-F. Yes. Yes, that's just a little trivia. And then Paul Winchell did that thing too where he'd paint the face on his chin. Yeah, it was interesting. The camera had to be upside down. Yeah.

Because what happened was he would paint the eye, an eye here, an eye here, and then he would put a goatee here, and then he would put the body on upside down on his head. But when the camera turned upside down, it looked like a funny look, a weird-looking character. But it was just, because you could tell when Jerry Mahoney was in the scene also, you could tell because the character was doing it easier. It was not like this when he was talking for Jerry Mahoney was in the scene also you could tell because Lenny Hughes the character was dealing on it easier you know

and it's not like this when he was talking for Jerry Mahoney but Jerry Mahoney was off camera but that was a very very news

he was a very very ingenious guy you know he had something to do with the heart he did the artificial heart yeah

and I heard they wanted him to take out a patent on it and he wasn't concerned with getting credit. He just wanted to invent it. Yeah, he wanted to invent it because there was something. I guess he knew of a heart surgeon or something to that effect, and he wanted to really help him out.

Who was that famous heart surgeon? Michael DeBakey or Christian Barnard? Christian Barnard. Okay, Michael DeBakey I think was South Africa. Yeah, I think it was Barnard. One of them was. Paul Winchell just wanted to help. Yeah, yeah, he just wanted to help because either that or he had somebody in his family had heart problems or something.

There was something personal about it that he wanted to. He was a brilliant guy. He became, of course, a famous voiceover guy. Dick Dastardly and Muttley and all these characters for Hanna-Barbera

for years. Yeah, Rubbing Bubbles, those bubble things. Oh, yeah, sure. Scrubbing Bubbles. A million things that are not even

coming to mind now but we'll think of them. What was the name of that villain? Did he have a goatee? Did he have a mustache? He may have. The villain?

Who? You mean Snidely Whiplash? There was Snidely Whiplash, and who was another famous villain? It was Dick Dastardly, who I just mentioned. Dick Dastardly? Oh, okay.

From the Wacky Racers. Yeah. Oh, he was in everything. Yeah, he did it. Real talent. I heard that Winchell, he was brilliant, but he had a terrible upbringing. Well, you know, I don't know. I don't know.

I think what happened, he had some problems with his siblings. I mean, with his kids. He suffered from depression, I know. Well, who doesn't? Yeah. Who doesn't? And his mother was supposed to be like she was a little psychotic, and that wore on him. Well, that could be, but, you know, when you look at the celebrities nowadays,

and if you look at the back story, you know, it's not rosy. Especially funny people seem to come from the most damage you know, it's not rosy. Especially funny people seem to come from the most damage. Yeah, that's true, that's true. But he was,

oh, go ahead. No, no, and you know, entertainers, entertainers, when they're doing

live performances, the ones that do live performances and singers, you know, you notice that they never retire? They never retire

unless they have to retire because there's something, you probably, you notice that they never retire? They never retire unless they have to retire. Because there's something, you probably, you know about this. There's something about walking out and somebody introduces you, you walk out on stage, the light hits you, and you hear the applause, and then you start up, and then you get reaction from the audience. That makes you feel good. That's like a high. You know, you feel good about that.

Then when you come off know you feel good about that then when you come off you feel good and it's like if even some nights if the show didn't go the way you really wanted to wanted to go like some days when i was growing up it didn't really go the way i want when you come off about five or six hours later you feel good because you did go out you did go out then you went through that that that ritual you feel that way that way, Gilbert? Does it energize you? Yeah, yeah. There is that thing because, like, I always say this. Right before I go on, I'm praying that the manager will come back and say we had a fire or a flood and you can't go on.

Here's your check. Go home. But then after I do it, I go, okay, I did that. Yeah. And you're fired up? I mean, do you have that high where it's hard to come down? Well, that is, yeah. See, sometimes, go ahead.

No, it's that funny thing like when I get off stage, like i when i get off stage i my adrenaline's going and i have that understanding too of like you know then i'm by myself in the hotel and i'm still got my adrenaline and i understand why these performers want to do drugs afterwards to keep the high going. Yeah, some do, yeah. But it's something about being in front of people. You know, it's freaky. Gladys Knight and the Pips, The Temptations, you know, they were doing shows and they had hit records and stuff like that. But before they would go on stage,

they would all hold hands and they would say a prayer. Wow. Because you never know. You never know what's going to happen when you get out there. It can be turned around on you. Yeah, it's like the first show can be terrific and then the second show, horrible. Yeah, that's true. Oh, I just want to get back

to winchell for a second but he was a nice guy to work with well yeah the matter of fact you know when i got out here to california and because the reason i came out here was due to uh laugh him the last the last season last season laughing but anyway i moved out here moved out here. And then somehow or another, we hooked up. He was doing, he did a thing where he was going to do a thing where they're going to say, where are they now? Like Jerry Mahoney and the Knucklehead Smith, what are they doing now? And Knucklehead Smith was an executive for CBS. Funny joke. And Jerry Mahoney,

he was something else. But what happened was like it was done on sunset, some club on sunset, but he had me as a guest. And I had a guest spot on there where we sat at the table, and they filmed this. They taped this. We sat at the table

and Lester would talk a little bit, blah, blah, blah, that kind of situation. So it made me feel good to know that this man, my mentor, took time out to put me in one of his movies. Quite a journey that you're a kid watching him on TV, and now you're working with him all these years later. Yeah, and he was a nice man. Some people would say, because you've probably run into this too, where some people will say things,

you might know somebody and somebody else will come up and say, ah, I hate that guy. That guy is not, I don't like that guy. That guy doesn't like me. But it's basically you get along with him, but it's the idea you wonder,

what happened where this particular person doesn't like this particular person? But that happens. And with me, another thing, too, I work with a lot of, you know, like Ann-Margaret and... Oh, yeah. John Davidson, you know, Sammy Davis Jr.,

all those folks, you know, I work with them. And I would always give them the space. You know, some people, when they're doing an opening act, they kind of get, they kind of bogart in on the headliner. I would stay away because I didn't want them to be mad at me. Or I didn't want to know if they had an other side. I didn't want to know the other side of them. Because one time we were working in Las Vegasgas and i was working with sammy davis jr and back in those days they didn't have tvs the monitors where you can see the stage see the acts on stage they had the just uh audio you could hear the audio you could hear that show

in the dressing room from what was going on on stage so i would go back when he was on stage when i come off he'd go on stage and then when i'd come off i'd go and sit with his people in his dressing room and then he then i knew it was the end of the show because he would do that Mr. Bojangles you know Mr. Bojangles so I knew he was coming back to the dressing room so I would get I one night I was late because I was talking to somebody I was late getting out before he got in there so as I was getting ready to get up to go out he was coming in and as he was coming in he was all sweaty from you know being on stage and stuff and as he walked in he says wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute where are you good where do where do you go where do

you go i said well mr davis i just you know i want to give you your space he said stick around hang around hang around so you know from then from then on, I'd hang around. But, you know, again, you've probably known some performers. They just want their space. You know, they don't want to talk to people. How did you like playing Vegas, Willie, when you were opening for Ann-Margaret? Vegas was nice. Yeah.

Vegas was a lot of entertainment to say this, but Vegas was pretty, it was cool back in those days. I mean, it's good now. But back in those days, it wasn't as big as it is now. Back in those days, you could get into the Riviera, you can come out of the Riviera Hotel, get in a taxi, drive down the strip to Caesars in two minutes, three minutes. Three minutes, you could do that. But now it's like, it's a different world. Now, were there still the mobsters there when you were working? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That was basically, well, it's not like, it's not a secret or anything like that. No, no. We ask all the performers we've had on the show who worked Vegas in those days what their relationship was with the mob if they got on. Vegas in those days, what their relationship was with the mob. If they got on. Every performer has said to us and others I've read about they loved working

for the mob. The treatment. Yeah, because what happened was like in the dressing room, like I worked some of the casinos you worked, when you got there your name was on the door. And the name was like, it was carved out of a particular kind of plastic.

And people had to go out of their way to carve your name. It wasn't like a thing that was thrown together. And it was on the door. And what happened, one thing about Vegas, you know, when I used to get there, I got there the day of the show. I would always get there the day of the show, you know, to do sound check, you know, because your name, along with the headliner, would be on the marquee, you know? So when you come from the airport and you're driving or you're driving into town, you look up and your name is on the marquee. But what I would do, I always wanted to try to get out of town before the last night of the show

because I didn't want them to see him taking my name off the marquee. That's great. Wow. That's great. But did you have dealings with the mobsters? No, but I don't know.

No, I don't think so. A lot of nightclubs so a lot of nightclubs a lot of nightclubs all over the place well you worked at Copa with the infamous Jules Podell yeah Jules Podell

yeah I mean the nightclubs were all over in Detroit there were a lot of nightclubs because they were the ones that could be able to get the liquor license

and stuff like that you know but it was like it was cool I mean it was just a fun place to work. I mean, you never saw anything going down or anything, that particular kind of situation. But I remember one night I was working in this particular club.

And it was a Monday night, and they had a band there. And it was a little club in Detroit. And this woman was walking to the restroom. And evidentlyly she had words with another woman sitting at a table. You know, so when she went to the restroom she came back out and then they got into a fight.

And then the men got into the fight. And then they got, one guy wouldn't stop so they had to take the guy and put him out, take him outside. They took him outside and stuff like that. But they took him outside and locked the door. The guy broke the door down and came back in.

And then they had to take him back out again. Then they finally called the Detroit police. The police came, you know, stuff like that. And then I remember Joe. Joe was like the bartender. And Joe was, you know, he was trying to show that he had things under control.

And he, because he had a gun under the bar. And the gun went off by accident. It shot in the floor. It shot in the floor. But everybody went under the tables and everything like that. There was like a lot of excitement going on then. That particular night. Weren't you in a club performing and you heard gunshots going off in a balcony?

No, no. That was, we were working, there's a Motor Town Review. Oh, and it was in a theater. It was in a coliseum. It's called the Carter Baron. Yeah, the Carter Baron. Was that in Philly? No, no.

Oh, in D.C. D.C. Yeah, it was old. It was a big, gigantic arena. It was old and the sound was bad. The sound was, it was just a bad place to it was old and the sound was bad. The sound was, it was just a bad place to try to put on a show.

You know, it was like, but for some reason or another when we got there on the bus, we all got off the bus, came inside, we did sound check

and everything like that and doing a sound check, it was just, the sound was just bad. You know, and I'm saying to myself, this doesn't, something about this, it doesn't seem right.

This place has got some bad vibe. It's bad. So anyway, that night, the show started. And then the Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. And I still had that feeling. And then the Martha Reeves. Had a bad feeling.

Yeah, the band was up there. And Martha Reeves and the Vandellas they went up, and they started doing their thing. Excuse me. And as they were doing their thing, you heard shots coming from way up high, shots. Now, Choker Campbell, he was the band leader back in those days. Now, I'm backstage. Well, it's one of those stages that they put up

with platforms, you know, platforms where you can stand under the stage. You can look up at the entertainers, but you're standing under the stage almost. But I'm watching the band,

and I'm watching Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. The shots go off. Without any hesitation, Choker Campbell just stopped the band. He stopped the band he stopped the band he grabbed his

his music charts and stuff like that without even looking he just walked off the stage and of course the band followed

Martha Reeves and Van Nellis followed and that was the end of the show that was that because you can't start you can't do a show

with people shooting what did what did what did B.B. King call those clubs Bucket of Blood Bucket of Blood wow those are You can do a show with people shooting. What did B.B. King call those clubs? Bucket of Blood. Bucket of Blood.

Wow. Those are like the little small clubs. Yeah. Small clubs. Now, we jump around a lot here, but going back to the strip clubs, you said they were really strict. Even though it was a strip club, really strict about doing dirty material. Language, yeah. Yeah, language.

It was a very, very strict club. I mean, back then, it was that way. Even the strippers, the strippers couldn't, like nowadays, I guess, what, strippers, they use the pole and stuff like that? Oh, I wouldn't know, Willie. You know, climbing up on the pole. Sure. Trust me. We know. But it's like, but they didn't have a pole back then.

But back then, the strippers had to wear pasties. You know, pasties. Sure, sure. You know, pasties. Yeah. The little band-aids that they put on. Right.

So, and they couldn't be nude. And nowadays, strip joints, I think strip joints have, I haven't been to a strip joint lately,

but anyway. But it's, they don't wear as many clothes as they did then. I remember one little club in Detroit, this little lady, she was French. And she would go on stage.

And the stages used to be behind the bar. You know, where's the bar? People could sit at the bar and look at the stage, you know, and they had tables behind in the rest of the club. But what happened, this little lady, a little French lady, at the end of her show, her, I don't know, her signature thing was when she finished, she would turn to the audience

because she had this bikini on and she would flip the bikini down. Just flip it down and flip it back up. You know, that was the closer kind of situation. But one night, the vice squad was in the kitchen. They were in the kitchen.

You can always tell the vice squad guys because they would wear suits. They would come in with suits. They were coming in with suits on. And they were back there talking to the manager. And they were standing in such a way where they could see the stage. You know, they could see the stage. And then she finished and she flipped the bottom. And then they went nuts.

When she came off, they were ahead, they were in the back. They were talking to us. You're not supposed to be doing that kind of stuff. You're not supposed to be doing that kind of stuff. So that was back in the days when they did stuff like that. Incredible. I remember, like, there were a few strip clubs where they had a law and the law was

stated that the nipples have to be covered so the strippers would take a little piece of saran wrap and cover it. So you could see the nipples but legally. What were yours covered with?

But it was a thing of legally, they said, has to be covered. So they were covered. You probably used gaffer tape. Yeah. Were those mob-owned strip clubs, Willie?

A lot of clubs were. I mean, it's like what Tony, we had Tony Sandler here from Sandler and Young, and he was telling us, and we found it interesting, too, that the mob wouldn't allow profanity. They had an issue with profanity.

It could kill people. But keep it clean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You couldn't, matter of fact, the Brass Rail was, oh boy, there was a guy who,

there was a guy who owned the Brass Rail. His father passed away and he took over the club. And I cannot think of his name. But he wound up going to jail for insider trading. I can't think of his name. Wow. It was big. It was all over the states where this particular guy, Norman Boski.

Oh, Ivan Boski. Ivan Boski. That's a big name. Ivan Boski, he owned the brass rail. Wow. There you go. And now, while Gilbert heads into the nutmeg kitchen to steal more Perrier, a word from our sponsor.

That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history. Thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. Hot chicken in the window. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect.

I just want to be like Gilbert, Gilbert and Frank. I just want to be like Gilbert, Gilbert and Frank. And now we return to the show. Speaking of policing clubs, wasn't there a story about Sammy, somebody giving Sammy a hard time at Jules Podell's club at the Copa? The Copa didn't there a story about Sammy, somebody giving Sammy a hard time at Jules Podell's club at the Copa? The Copa didn't have a stage. They had a little platform for the band,

but the performer stood right on the level of the floor. And as you go back, they had little tiers there for the tables. But the performance, anyway, they had a noisy table there one night. And they were noisy, so what happened was like the guys in the tuxedos would go over and say, can you hold it down, please, Mr. Davis? He's performing.

And they'd go back. And the people kept talking and talking and talking. They'd go back again, and they would say the same thing. And they did it so many times. So they had the bus boys come over and pick their table up because they were in a round table, a big round table. They had them pick the table up, and they took the table out. While they were sitting there, just removed their table. So that means when you're sitting there without a table, that means you're going to leave.

Yeah. You're going to leave because why sit there with no drinks and facing each other? And Jules Podell used to tap that ring, right, on the table? He had a very big ring. That big, heavy ring. Yeah. Yeah. He had the big ring.

What he would do, he would sit by, when he was there, he'd always sit by the cash register because it's the lady that did the cash register thing. But there's a little seat there. He would always sit right by her as the food came in and out. They had some nice food. The food was phenomenal. It was a phenomenal food. It was a good venue to work. The Copa. You said that at one point you took up smoking because it seemed like the thing to do.

Everyone around you was smoking. What happened was I was in the Air Force. When I was in the Air Force, I started smoking. I went in the Air Force when I was 18. But what happened was I started smoking in the service because everybody else was smoking. But I didn't really inhale. But what happened was a scary time in New York. I was working the COPA, and each night I'd go there.

I remember smoking a cigarette, smoking cigarettes, and I would eat. They had the food. I got a Chinese dinner, the Chinese food, shrimp fried rice. Phenomenal, great, you know? And I would drink rum and Coke, rum and Coke. And then I stayed, I think I stayed at a place called President Hotel, 48th Street and 8th Avenue.

Probably not there anymore. No, no, it was across the street from Mama Leone's. Mama Leone's was right across the street. We're not far from there right now. And what happened was one day I was walking down the street and as I was walking down the street, I got dizzy. You know, I got

dizzy and I said, oh no, not in New York. I can't pass out on the street in New York. No, no. Somebody will roll you. Yeah. And so that night I went I didn't drink

the rum and coke I didn't eat the Chinese food and I didn't smoke cigarettes and then that particular first show that first night that I did the shows

I instead of back in those days I used to stand up and put my foot up on a chair and Lester would stand on my

sit on my knee and but I was I didn't want to feel dizzy on stage, so I sat down, and I brought the mic down, and I did the show for the next couple of days that way until that dizziness thing went away.

But it was kind of freaky. It never came back, but it was just weird that something like that happened. But I did stop drinking rum and Coke, and I stopped smoking. But I went back to the Chinese food, but it was good. Didn't you say Lester had the big hair then? He had the afro, and you said he would come home smelling of smoke?

Yeah, it's like— You couldn't get the smoke out of the doll? No, because back in those days, you know, in nightclubs, people smoked. Yeah. And if people who didn't smoke had to sit in all that smoke. And I would work. Some clubs didn't have what you call ventilation. Only time they would vent the place was like when the show was over.

They would open the doors, the big doors or the fire doors, and let all the smoke out. But every night, Lester would be there, and then the next day I'd be home. Then maybe I was changing his shirt or something like that. I'd open the case, and as I opened the case, all this smoke smell would come out because the smoke was in his hair from the club, from the environment. By the way, Gil, a little trivia for you. Did you know Stu Gillum started as a ventriloquist? Oh, wow.

I found that in my research. Stu Gillum was a ventriloquist, and I found out. See, he was a very good actor. Yeah, yeah, late Stu Gillum. Yeah, what happened was like the reason why he went away from the ventriloquist thing because he had some dental work done. And somehow or another, see when it ain't, well, he probably had to have it done. But sometimes people say when it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But when he had that dental work done, something happened where he couldn't. He couldn't do that anymore. Interesting. So it's like that's why I'm very careful with particular things that people say to me well you know you got to get this maybe get this we'll put the implants in here yeah yeah you don't mess with it no no no no no you know what's funny to bring back like i remember when people smoked everywhere and on planes, which was crazy because it's an enclosed space, but you'd have smoking and non-smoking sections. So you'd be sitting across from someone smoking.

Ridiculous. Yeah, but the idea was the smoking was in the back. So if you were sitting in this no-smoking zone up front, you're not in first class, but I mean up front, it was like the idea. It's like you get up to go to the restroom, and as you went to the restroom, you walk through all this cloud of smoke back there. It's amazing that people had fire in their hands up in the air with all that fuel. Oh, insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gasoline, all that fuel. Looking back. Amazing. Go ahead. Go ahead, insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The gasoline, all that fuel, you know. Looking back. Amazing. Go ahead, Gil. I remember a story that, well, did you ever work with Sherry Lewis? Sherry, Sherry Lewis? We did a thing with Sherry. Wasn't that Steve Allen thing?

Yeah, Vent Event. Yeah. No, no, was it? Yeah, the Vent Event. It was done out here. Out here with Jay Johnson. Jay Johnson from Soap. Remember him? Oh, yeah. The was an event event. It was done out here. Out here with Jay Johnson. Jay Johnson from Soap. Remember him?

Oh, yeah. The Ventriloquist Act. Edgar Bergen was there. Jimmy Nelson. Danny O'Day. Danny O'Day. Oh, my God. Danny O'Day and Farfel.

And we did it at the Mayfair. N-E-S-T-L-E-S. Huh? Nestle. Oh, yeah, yeah. It is the very best. Chocolate. Uh-huh. Yeah. And it was done is the very best chocolate. Yeah.

And it was done at the Mayfair Theater here. Yeah, in Santa Monica. It's no longer there. But it's like, that's what they did. And at that particular time, when we were filming the HBO special, was it the event event? Yeah, the event event, yeah.

When we were taping that, they were filming in Burbank, they were filming the Burbank they were filming the movie Magic oh the Anthony Hopkins movie about ventriloquism

and Margaret right and Margaret and Burgess Meredith Burgess Meredith very good right right right very good Gil and it was written

by Stephen King no no I think it was written by William Goldman oh William Goldman yes William Goldman yeah yes Goldman yes William Goldman yeah

yes it was William Goldman yeah and what happened was like the night of the the taping when we had the audience

there when we were taping it the producer of Magic I mean director of Magic Richard Attenborough Richard Attenborough he came there he was in the audience

that night I guess they wanted to come and see what ventriloquist did because they were doing a movie about a ventriloquist. Yeah, that's a good movie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good scary movie about ventriloquism. And like the ventriloquist dummy is made to look like Anthony Hopkins.

Yes. So it makes it creepier. You know, like when they did the Twilight Zone, they did about two or three Vin Chilkis stories. One with Mickey Rooney. Oh, and the other with the guy from Spider-Man. Cliff Robertson. Cliff Robertson.

Yeah. No, it wasn't Mickey Rooney, though. I think it was Mickey Rooney. Wasn't it? Am I wrong? There's definitely one with Cliff Robertson. Mickey Rooney was in the one where he's a jockey and he wants to be big. Oh, gosh.

Now, this is another guy. I can't think of it. All right, we'll figure it out. But what happened was like they had, if you watch those movies, it's like that particular, they use the same character in all the movies. You know, when Cliff Robertson was there. Oh, yes. They had the same character in all the movies. You know, when Cliff Robinson was back. Oh, yes. They had the same character.

Right. They put him in storage, I guess. You know, and then put him out of central casting when it came to ventriloquism again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever see the movie Dead of Night? Oh, yes. With Michael Redgrave? Yes.

There's another ventriloquist story. Yeah, it was a black and white movie. Black and white. From England. Yes. That's a good one. I thought it was Mickey Rooney. I must be wrong.

Yeah, Mitch. No, no, no. I remember. I think it's a guy. The guy. Okay, Superman 1. Uh-huh. The guy who ran the paper.

Oh, you are right. It's Jackie Cooper. Yeah. Wow. You are right. Wow. Good man. Yeah. Wow. You are right. Wow. Good man. Good man.

Why did I think it was Mickey Rooney? And was he talking in an Irish brogue? No. I remember there was one with a guy. There were three movies, but maybe not the ones we're talking about. They always use ventriloquism in horror stories. Oh, yes. It always shows up in those horror anthologies. There's always use ventriloquism in horror stories. Oh, yes.

It always shows up in those horror anthologies. There's always a ventriloquism story. An evil dummy. What I remember about Sherry Lewis, she said her father was a magician. And he would take her on the road with him. And there was actually, his opening act was a black ventriloquist. And that guy, they'd sit, by traveling together, he started teaching her as a little girl. He taught her ventriloquism. And it led to Lamp Chop.

Interesting. It led to Lamp Chop. Interesting. Lamp Chop, yeah. There's a ventriloquist back in the turn of the century, back in the days of vaudeville, a black ventriloquist. He had several, I can't remember his name, but he had several characters. They were all on some kind of a little platform where he could operate them all by just standing in one spot kind of situation.

I can't remember his name, but he was good. Vaudeville was a good day, good days, Vaudeville. Now, here's something that's really strange to me. like the same way we used to have mimics years ago frank gorshin rich little will jordan now all those guys uh george kirby yeah so many i love george kirby oh yeah and he did pearl his pearl bailey oh oh my god the best he did all of the female yes on the copycats. Yeah, he would do like, yeah. Yeah. And he would do that, what, elephant struggles? Sure, sure. What you were saying, it's a dying art, ventriloquism? Oh, yeah. Well, it's

like, so ventriloquism and mimics and comedy teams, they all disappeared except for Vegas. And magicians a little bit, too. Yeah, magicians, too. In Vegas, they're still popular.

But on regular TV, I grew up watching all of that. So many. Oh, yeah, yeah. On the Ed Sullivan show, too. Of course. Oh, yeah. Senior Winters. Senior Winters. Well, weren't they telling you it was passe way back then, Willie, when you first started?

They were telling you that ventriloquism was? Well, again, when I was doing it, it was like people just wondered why I was doing something like that. Because they were saying, why are you doing that? You know, that kind of situation. That's why a lot of, you find some people who are really successful in business, what you have to do. If you listen to what everybody says, that can like, you uh you know of course deflate what what you're trying to do so what what i would do is like you you put blinders on it's like blinders and people people saying stuff people saying stuff negative stuff you know and you just you let it bounce off

yeah follow your bliss man yeah because if you listen to And you just, you let it bounce off. Yeah, follow your bliss, man. Yeah, because if you listen to that, you wouldn't get anywhere. That kind of situation. The last place impressionists are appearing is on this podcast. Oh, that's right. We had Marilyn Michaels, Will Jordan, and Rich Little. They were all here. Yes. On this show.

And you are our first ventriloquist out of 200, Willie. Oh, wow. Out of 200 guests. Wow. And speaking of which first ventriloquist out of 200, Willie. Out of 200 guests. And speaking of which, has Lester arrived yet? Has he checked in? Yeah, I gotta I'm gonna step out.

Yeah, see if you can bring a... Wait a minute, I'll keep this on. Out having a cup of coffee or what? Bring him in. No, he's... The doorknob is too high. Okay. Lester is going coffee or what? Bring him in. The doorknob is too high. Lester is going to join us. Okay.

Here he is. You okay? I'm okay. What's this? There's a mic. Can you guys see me? Lester, we see you. How you doing? I can't hear. Oh, I'm sorry.

Willie's putting headphones on Lester now. And Lester has a baseball cap. He's got a baseball cap. I appreciate that you brought him his own headphones. What are you doing there? Hang on. You got an hour? Okay.

Hang on a second. I got you. Yeah. I just realized that. He's putting headphones on Lester. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. There we go.

We got it. Fantastic. Lester, can you hear us now? Huh? Oh, hey, say something. Go ahead, Gil. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey.

Hey. Gilbert. Yes? How you doing? Hi. How are you, Lester? Lester there, Frank? Yep, that's me. How you doing? How you doing are you, Lester? Lester there. Frank?

Yep, that's me. How you doing? How you doing, Lester? I'm doing fine. I'm fine. I can hear you. I can hear you. We had a question for you.

You enjoy working with this guy all these years? Carrying him the way you have? Yeah, he's cool. He's my right hand. Yeah, he's cool. He's my right hand. Willie, go ahead, Gil. You got a question for Lester?

Lester, do you remember the time that your partner, your heartless partner, threw you into a trunk and threw you on the ground. Yeah, that's the story of my life. Story of my life. I was born in a suitcase, though. Then that group called Men at Work. Yeah, Men at Work. They did a song about me called

Man in a Suitcase. Really? I wish... We are keeping Edgar Bergen's spirit alive by doing ventriloquism on an audio medium. The way he did it on radio. That's good.

That was one of the things I noticed with Edgar Bergen. He was a ventriloquist on radio, which was like being a magician on radio and when when you see him on tv i guess he was so used to radio his mouth would be moving like crazy well you know i talked to him you know i mean we talked about this just but back on in radio there were scripts you know bob, Bob Hope, everybody read scripts. Yep. Excuse me, but when you're doing

radio, you're not, it's not like TV where you can see and hear. On radio, you could only hear. So he had to articulate. In other words, when sometimes when ventriloquists

say particular things, they don't say like, they don't say the boy went to the store. They say the boy went to the store. And on radio, if you're hearing the boy went to the store, I mean, it's like the people listening say, what? Oh, I see. That's interesting. So he teed it. He moved his lips. So all of those scripts, and he became popular and stuff like that. And so by the time television came along, it didn't really matter. He moved his lips. So all of those scripts, and he became popular and stuff like that. And by the time television came along, it didn't really matter. He moved his lips,

but it didn't matter because Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snurred, everybody loved them. I love that. How did I know that? Lester, how old are you, by the way, now? I don't know. Saul Neal Olden in Count Niner Rings. Is there a story, Lester, of Willie losing you or misplacing you? Lake Tahoe?

Does that ring a bell? It's Lake Tahoe, but there's another story real quick. We're talking about New York. You guys are in New York. Yeah. I'd gone someplace, and I was taking a bus to come back. It was over in New Jersey or something, but I was taking a bus to come back. It was over New Jersey or something, but I was taking a bus back right down on 8th Avenue or something like that, where they had a bus station someplace near the post office or something like that.

But anyway, I got to the bus station and I got out and my bag was underneath the bus. You know, you put the bags under because it's a big bag. So I got out and I reached down to get my bag. I got the bag. I pulled it out. And I started walking with it. And I looked at it and it wasn't my bag. It looked like my bag.

But it wasn't my bag. And Lester was in that bag. You didn't tell me that, man. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. What happened was like a situation where i started the walk i figured if i walked real fast maybe i can find the person maybe i can find oh thank you thank you mike yeah you couldn't you couldn't hear me make sure we can hear lester there you go and so um what i was like i was going to go down the escalator,

and a lady was coming up the escalator with the bag. She noticed that it was the wrong bag. So I was lucky enough that day to get my bag, and she got her bag back. Imagine her surprise if she'd opened the bag. No, I had it locked. Oh, good. When I'm in the suitcase, I put the lock on, that chain thing on. I got a chain thing on that inside.

Yeah, you need privacy. Yeah, that's an inside story. Could I ask the two of you, do you have some small bit from your act that you could do for us right now? Let's see. I thought we were doing it. No, what happens, you know, growing up and working those particular clubs we talked about doing,

what we would do is like, we would never have a, like the Apollo in place like that. You couldn't do a prepared act like for example it but happened Lou Costello they did who's on first all scripted yeah descriptive but when you've got hecklers and people like that you couldn't do you couldn't do anything like that because you had to do little pieces of things because if you interrupt it you would ad lib and then come back to something else. I see. And so basically, that's what basically we would do. And the kids at the Apollo, some days when there wasn't like a lot of people in there,

some kids, they would let the audience stay in for the next show. And so they would know your jokes. The second show, they know your jokes. And they would jump on the punchlines before you would jump on the punchlines. So we always had to play a game with them. Wow. So you always had to be different. Yeah, yeah.

But you know, I'll tell you something. I got something here. I went down to Florida. Florida. Florida. Florida. You know, when you go to the beach, I went to the beach,

and you know what happens? You see those women in those bathing suits, and they do, they move real fast with their booty. What is that called? That's called twerking. Twerking. Huh? Twerking.

Oh, okay. Can't you say that? No, no, no, I can't say that. Why can't you say twerking? Because your lips will move. I'm just singing. I love it. Thank you much.

Now, Willie, can we get you to, or Lester, actually. Lester, can we get you to say the word fuck? No, no. He's not going to. He's not going to. No, no. He's not going to work blue for you. Can we throw some wild names at you guys, quick? Go ahead.

You worked with Lola Falana. Don Rickles. Charlie Callis. Slappy White. Any of these names bring up an anecdote or a memory? No, Slappy White used to be Red Fox's comedy. He had a comedy team. Sure.

Slappy White and Red Fox, yeah. And then Slappy White later teamed up with Steve Rossi. He did. Yeah, they tried to do the... Briefly. They tried to put the team back together. Yeah. Uh-huh. I remember that.

Oh, yes. I remember it well. I can't sing too much stuff. I can't sing too much because you've got to think for it. Oh, and in the movie, did you have dealings with... Well, it had a great cast. Jon Voight. Yeah.

Yeah. And Bruce Stern and Jane Fonda. Yeah, that was done at Ranchos Los Amigos Hospital down in Downey. Yeah. That's where they did the hospital scenes. And, well, you know, Jon Voight, what he would do, because he was on a gurney all the way through the movie. Yeah. He would stay, like we filmed during the week and stuff like that.

He would, even at nighttime, he would stay in the hospital. It was like a closed portion of the hospital that they never used. But he would stay in a little room there all the time he filmed that. People would go home and stuff like that. He would stay in that little room in that hospital. I mean, it was like an area where nobody was. It was just a closed area. Hell of a movie.

Yeah. So, Willie, you're still out there. I mean, I saw you in Letterman a couple of years ago. You're still performing, both of you guys? Yeah, we're still doing it, yeah. Still doing it? Still fighting the good fight? Yeah, I remember the old days when I was in Motown.

I used to do the four tops when I was in Motown. I used to think of the Four Tops before they got in Motown. But when they got in Motown, they had to change their name. Why did they change their name? What did they call it? When you were with them, what did you call yourselves? Four Tops and a stick. What's coming up, Willie? You got anything coming up you want to plug?

We're working on a documentary. Oh, great. A documentary on our lives, right? Right. We're working on that. I was going to say, you should write a book or make a documentary or something. You've done everything. You've been everywhere.

Yeah, but the documentary's going on. That's great. They interviewed me for your documentary. yeah yeah yeah okay last last question i got this is from one of our uh our listeners uh willie mark arnold wants to know will you ever reissue your motown uh lp hello dummy hello dummies it's it's it's it's it's out there is it out there. Is it out there? Yeah, it's like, I think I see them on iTunes. You know, it's out there. Oh, can people get it on iTunes? Well, let's see.

It's out there, or if it's not out there, it'll be out there soon because we're working on getting that together. And Hello Dummy was done live at the Fox Theater in Detroit. Oh, there you go. And did Don Rickles ever insult the two of you? No, no, Don Rickles, he's not a friend. I like Don Rickles. He's cool with me. You know what, Don Rickles, he's a really down-to-earth guy.

You know, when people, when cars would come and pick him up at the airport, you know, limos, he would sit up front. He would sit with the driver. He didn't want to sit. He never sat in the back. He never wanted to sit in the back. Oh, he didn't have a star trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sat with up front. He would sit with the driver. He didn't want to sit. He never sat in the back. He never wanted to sit in the back. Oh, he didn't have a star trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He sat with the driver. I heard. I like that. I heard with Don Rickles, total opposite of his persona, he was just one of the most gentle and nice guys you'd ever meet. Yeah, he was a nice man. Nice man. You know, it's almost like Sherman Hemsley,

the character he played on The Jeffersons. Yeah. George. Yeah, when we were doing the scenes and stuff like that, you know, he's boisterous

and stuff like that. But then when we took time off and stuff, he'd go and sit in the corner. He was quiet. Very quiet guy. People go over and say hi. He'd say, hey, hi.

Did you ever work with Red Fox? Red Fox, I worked with. Red Fox, remember Red Fox? Yeah, yeah, Red Fox. He's cool. Yeah, Red. I'll tell you a story. Lester likes everybody.

Yeah, but Red Fox, he was, well, like he was down to earth. And every time he would see me, he would always say, where's the dummy? You know. He would always say that. But the real, I might have told this story, but I was in Detroit. He was working a club in Detroit.

He would always work a lot of jazz clubs. He would have jazz groups and stuff. He would come and do his comedy there. So I saw in a paper where he was going to be at the Baker's Keyboard Lounge, jazz club on 8th Mile in Detroit there. So what I would do, I went over and I went in. It's a little small room. The jazz group was playing.

The people in there that night, it was like one of those situations where they had a lot of people. When you've got a lot of people who work together, sometimes the audience you don't get their attention because they work together. So they're talking to each other because they haven't seen each other and they work together. So it was that kind of because they work together. So they're talking to each other because they haven't seen each other.

Yeah. So it was that kind of an audience that night. So the trio, the trio, they would finish, and then they introduced Red. Red came up and stood by the piano, and he'd light a cigarette, and he'd start doing his act. But the audience, they were boisterous, you know?

But he would keep going, and when he finished one cigarette, he'd light another cigarette, and he finished three cigarettes. See, he timed his act with cigarettes. One cigarette. Flip Wilson did the same thing. Flip Wilson. Yeah, you time it. Once the cigarette is over, that's about five minutes.

Anyway, he finished it. It wasn't like a situation where he would say, shut up. He didn't lose it. He just did it like he was just doing it like they weren't even there. And he finished his act, finished, and he went out. I saw him getting, he had a Lincoln. I remember he got in his Lincoln and he drove away.

But it's the idea, remember the old saying, the show must go on if you want to get paid. That's Gilbert's motto. Oh, yeah. Now, also, you were living in L.A. And you looked across the street and you saw a sign come up, comedy store. Mm-hmm. Yeah, back in 1972, I was out there, I was doing the laughing

and then one night I came out of the Sunset Towers Hotel where I was staying and I looked across the street and there was a sign up there, you know, near the Hyatt house over there. And it was a comedy store. I said, wait a minute, that wasn't there last night.

Anyway, I went over and... Sammy. Sammy Shore. Sammy Shore was at the door. And he knew who I was. He said, Willie, we've got this club going here. If you want to come and do a set sometimes, let us know. So at that particular night, it was just open. And I could look in that little window, because you can look in the window.

And I saw a guy on stage. But then there's about six people. There were six people in the audience that night. It was just beginning. It was just beginning to see where it's gone from then. And we just lost Mitzi. Yeah. She just passed.

And I think you said Mitzi loved Lester. Mitzi would always talk to Lester. I got a picture. I'll probably put it on the Internet someplace. But it's a picture in La Jolla, La Jolla Comedy Club. She's holding Lester's cheek. But she always talked to Lester. Well, when Lester wasn't around, she would always say,

where is he? Where is he? She was good at names because my brother would come to the comedy store with me sometimes. And she walked up and she'd see my brother and she'd see me. And she says, hi, Willie. Hi, Willie's brother. And then she'd walk away. She liked you, huh? Lester Mitzi? Mitzi Short?

Yeah, she's a nice lady, yeah. She made me feel real. That was great. Comedy store. Rest in peace, Mitzi. Do you think Mitzi had good taste and that she liked you and wouldn't talk to your partner?

Yeah, yeah, because she thought I was funnier. She thought he should be a writer. Okay. What's the name of the documentary, Willie? Does it have a name and a release date? No, working title now. Well, documentaries, we've, working title now. Okay. Documentaries.

We've been working on it. It's been in the works now for about eight, nine, nine months. Documentaries. We've got to go to Detroit, the Motown things. We've got to go. See, I was born in Alabama. Yes. I was born in a little town in Alabama called Red Level. And we've got to go down there.

Oh, man. You're really doing deep, deep diving on this one. You're going everywhere. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Interesting, yeah. And Gilbert said it. It's time to go to the, it's time to go to where I was doing, the Black Forest. The Black Forest.

Okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the okay Willie Tyler and the extremely talented Lester. Thank you much. You know how to make a guy feel good. Hey, you guys could take us out with a couple of bars of one of your songs. You know how to make a guy feel good. Hey, you guys could take us out with a couple of bars of one of your songs.

Could we pose on you? I think we're going to do that. How you going to know if the roof leaks? If it never ever rains? How you going to know if you got some smarts? If you don't use your drain? If you don't use your drain? You came from the town, the weather's getting dry.

Now to dry the water, sell from the sky. People are saying all sorts of things. You didn't want to leave there, it was a life's routine. Say, hey, how you gonna know if the roof leaks? If the nether ever rains? How you gonna know if you got some smarts if you don't use your drain? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

Thank you, Lester. That was wonderful. No problem. I wish we were a visual medium. Instead of a podcast. Yeah, yeah. We got some footage. Our engineer Frank Verderosa and Dara were taking some footage. So we'll share it with our fans.

So we've been talking to the ventriloquist who can't physically can't say fop. That's right. That's right. The great Willie Tyler. Willie, thanks for this. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre

with audio production by Frank Furtarosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis, and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. Thank you. Bye.