Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 213. Michael Giacchino

Episode Date: June 25, 2018

Gilbert and Frank are joined by Oscar, Emmy and Grammy-winning film composer Michael Giacchino for a fascinating conversation about the birth of film scores, the golden age of "contract musicians," and the influences of Dave Grusin, Henry Mancini, Lalo Schifrin and Max Steiner. Also, Don Knotts gets tough, Martin Scorsese picks pop songs, Jerry Goldsmith conducts in an ape mask and Michael teams with the legendary John Williams! PLUS: Randy Newman! The great Gonzo! The genius of Hoyt Curtin! Paul McCartney grooves to Dr. Strange! And Michael pays tribute to Japanese monster movies! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at TNVacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hey, Ontario. Got any plans? How about a trip to the casino right here, right now?

With DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone. Download the app and play whatever, wherever, and whenever. Your options for fun are endless. On DraftKings Casino, your way is the only way to play. Join the fun on your time, in your space, and within your means.

The best part is it's safe, secure, and reliable. So deposits and withdrawals happen when you're ready. Go all in on fun with DraftKings Casino. Head to the App Store to download. Explore a full suite of games and find your favorites today. DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. Gambling problem?

Call Connex Ontario. 1-866-531-2600. 19 and over and physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hi, this is Andrea Martin, and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's

amazing, colossal podcast. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Fertorosa. Our guest this week is a Grammy, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Oscar-winning composer of blockbuster films, hit television series, and popular video games. You've heard his celebrated compositions and scores in TV shows like The Wonderful World of Disney, Alias, Alias, Fringe, and Lost in movies such as The Incredibles, Star Trek, Star Trek Beyond, War for the Planet of the Apes, Inside Out, Doctor Strange, Star Wars, Rogue One.

That's one title. Jurassic World, Spider-Man Homecoming, Ratatouille, Coco, and Up, for which he was presented an Academy Award for the best original score. And as timing would have it, he has two movies opening this month. The Incredibles 2 and Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. But that's not all. He's also written, arranged, and conducted music for dozens of video games, short films, and TV movies. and TV movies. And in 2005,

he collaborated with Disney Imagineering to create new soundtracks for Space Mountain at Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, and

Hong Kong Disneyland. He's also asked to... He was also. He was also asked to conduct the Academy Awards Orchestra for the 81st Academy Awards. He was. He was. he's worked with everyone from Steven Spielberg, to J.J. Abrams, to John Williams, to his closest friends as Star Wars Stormtrooper FN-3181. Our pal Michael Giacchino. And there's no more time for anything else.

That's the show, Mike. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. This was a blast. Yes. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal. Please tune in next week. Did we get the stormtrooper number right?

You got it right. FN-3181. That's it. How did you become a Stormtrooper in Star Wars The Force Awakens? Well, I'll tell you. You know, J.J. Abrams and I have really, we've done everything together. He hired me. He played the video games that I worked on and hired me for Alias,

which got me to Lost, which got me to Mission Impossible and Star Trek and so on and hired me for Alias, which got me to Lost, which got me to Mission Impossible and Star Trek and so on and so forth. But of course, when he was picked to do Star Wars, that was going to be John Williams doing that because that's all his territory. And he said, listen, I feel so terrible about this. He goes, but I can offer you the role of a stormtrooper. So I said, I'll take it. I said, that's even better.

That's even better. Then I don't have to do anything except show up, put on a helmet and walk around. It'd be great. It was literally the most uncomfortable thing I've ever worn in my life. How long did you have to keep the suit on? About eight hours. Oh, geez. And you can't take, the only thing you can take off are your gloves.

You can take off your gloves and your helmet. Everything else has to stay put. And it's just, and you can't sit because you're like leaning again. There's no way to sit. It's not fun. How do you pee? There is a clip underneath. You would have thought, first of all, that they, you know, they made this in 1977, right?

How many years have passed? You would have thought they would have figured the whole peeing thing out by now. But no, you're still wearing what amounts to a black wetsuit underneath all of this armor. So there's this clip you have to reach down real deep and get this thing out. And then you have to zip down as far as you can. And of course, it doesn't go down as far as you need it, so you have to pull down the rest. Of course. All of this while wearing this ridiculous armor you're in the urinal. I wish somebody had filmed it

because that probably would have been amazing. I imagine taking a dump was more. No, there was no number two that day. Not possible. And this is in the future. Yes, exactly.

But a small price to pay for being able to play a stormtrooper in a Star Wars movie. Exactly. I got to arrest the character of Poe Dameron in the beginning of the film, Oscar Isaac,

and I frisked him, which also, by the way, is ridiculous frisking because you can't see anything in that helmet. So all I'm doing is touching him. I'm looking like is ridiculous frisking because you can't see anything in that helmet. So all I'm doing is touching him. I'm like looking like I'm frisking him, but literally it amounts to me just feeling somebody up.

But you had a line. Did he give you a line too? Well, it wasn't my voice in the line. That was somebody else's voice doing the thing, you know? So I did a lot of nodding and shaking my head. To relax, what do you do? Do you lean against stuff? Yeah.

You lean against the wall. They had these stools, these extra large stools that you could just lean on, sort of, kind of sit on. You know, it was terrible. But it was fun. I mean, you know, and the funny thing was, like, we were in London filming this, and there was all these young guys there. Now, I'm 50, so when we did this, it was a few years back. So maybe I'm 47 or whatever at the time.

All the other Stormtroopers were like 21 years old, right? And they had us running up and down these hallways. And it was so hot on the set. And I'm practically dying each time. I'm like, okay, I need a break before we go for another one. And all the other guys, they're like these young buff guys that are just running up and down ready. We're doing another one.

But, and yet every time they needed a storm trooper, they would call for me and all the other guys would be like, well, why do they keep calling that guy? He's old. He can't even run. Like what is going on here? You know, but that, that's what guilt gets you. They didn't make the connection. JJ felt bad. So he left me. They didn't realize you're a personal friend no no and you must like sweat

a lot no yeah i think i lost about 12 pounds just in that one day but you're so proud of it i want to point out to our listeners that he signs his emails now it's the little it's the signature in your email yes fn3181 when and we mike and I hadn't talked in a number of years and I said send me your number because I want to do a pre-interview. And he sent this and this was in the email. FN3181. And I said wait a minute that's a six digit number. I know that trick. But he said no it's my storm trooper number. See now the funny thing is if you went to one of those autograph signing conventions

you know the hell with all the music that you wouldn't even have to mention you just have to have a photograph of you in that storm trooper thing and that is exactly that you are exactly right people are so much more excited about that a lot of times than they are about the fact that, you know, whatever else I worked on. I hope you got headshots for that reason in the Stormtrooper getup because one day when you're at a convention down the line and you're selling, you know, you're signing. Don't say that. Don't say that. When you're in your dotage.

When you're a man of a certain age. When you're in your dotage. When you're a man of a certain age. When you're sitting next to the guy who was a bank robber in a Chips episode. I know. That's so sad. That's going to be me. It's all right.

You know what? There are worse ways to end your life, I guess. Now, we wrote you about Gilbert's. Of course, Gilbert comes up with the most obscure. He manages to come up with a composer I never heard of. I'm in love. I'm one of those pathetic monster kids. Oh, no, me too. He's a monster kid.

I love it. In fact, you know, it's funny because when you mention Hans, right? Hans Salter, yeah. Hans J. Salter. He actually did the score for one of my favorite movies. Now, I give this talk, and it talks about what I do and everything, and I do it for kids or different organizations. And one of the pictures that I pull up to talk about the different kinds of stories you can tell

is a still from The Incredible Shrinking Man. Oh, there you go. And it's one of my absolute favorite movies. And he did the score for that movie, you know, amongst a million other things. So it's, you know. Well, I remember like the Wolfman theme. Yeah. Can you sing it?

Off key. How did you know? It would go like. You know what's so funny? That's how I pitch themes to the directors I work with. You actually do that? No. I think he has perfect pitch, Mike. But I will from now on.

That was actually pretty good. Not bad. That was really good. I like that. perfect pitch, Mike. But I will from now on. That was actually pretty good. Not bad. That was really good. I like that. He is strangely musical. Well, he did also Creature from the Black Lagoon. Yes. And Son of Dracula and House of Frankenstein.

Exactly. I mean, come on. But in those days, those guys were staffers. They were staff workers. It was like going into a room with a steno pool. And they were all just there. And he sort of fell into the horror genre, and they just kept throwing those movies at him. And that was his day job.

He would just sit there going, okay, what am I writing today? Right now I'm writing The Wolfman. What is this? And for all I know, he could have been like, what is this crap? I don't even know what a wolfman – who knows what his love or disdain was for what he was doing. I'm not sure of that. But it's pretty amazing to think in those days, they were just in the same way that the actors were all employed by the particular studios. Yeah.

They also had their stable of composers that would be there, and they would just work on whatever was thrown their way. Well, even directors in those days. Everyone, right? Everyone. Michael Curtiz. I mean, Casablanca was just a job yeah yeah it's like those directors it's like they would call them in and say okay you know it's it's a western or it's a comedy yeah or it's a romance bang them out yeah screenwriters too and they would just go and do it and there's something also to be said about

the fact being thrown a project and then having a very short period of time to do it. It seems very different today. And I don't know if the results are any better if you have a lot more time or get to be choosy about what you do. And it's an interesting thing to think about. And speaking of Michael Curtiz, then you have Max Steiner. Max Steiner. Yeah. Nice segue.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice segue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, what's cool about Max, do you know, obviously, King Kong. You guys know King Kong. Yeah, of course. I was listening to the score last night, the whole thing. It's so good.

Yeah. It is so good. You could put it on and just listen to it like a record. You can. It was one of the first film scores that just sort of blew my mind as a kid. I remember watching that because I was also obsessed with stop motion animation. So Willis O'Brien, who did that film, I was obsessed with that. But then by watching the movie, I would hear this music and be thinking, what is going on? And it wasn't until years later that I found out that Max Steiner, that was really the birth of

film scores with King Kong. Because up until then, they would do a lot of stock music. The guys would write a bunch of music, and they would be like, I need an action cue. Well, pull it from the action pile. I need a love theme. Pull it from the love file. And they would just use whatever. But Max on King Kong said, you know what?

I'm going to take this, what they call a Wagnerian approach, meaning the Wagner operas, he would write themes for characters or situations. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah, and he said, I'm going to write a theme for King Kong. I'm going to write a theme for Ann Darrow. All the characters in the film get a theme, and every time that character is on screen, you're going to hear that theme. And it's a way of guiding the audience to be with the characters every step of the way.

He was the first one to do it. And that process literally hasn't changed at all in all of these years, since 1933. He probably wrote it in 32, I guess, came out in 33. It's fascinating. And I've noticed when I was a kid watching the old monster movies, they would have the compositions just like they'd have scenes, out and out scenes that they would repeat in the lesser movies.

Yeah, exactly. All of that music was used over and over. It wasn't like it is today where that music just belongs to a particular film. It would be like if you went and saw Star Trek and my music played, and then you went to see, you know, some lesser science fiction film, and they used it in that as well. You know, you can't do that now. But then it was just, they were just writing it for this. And then whatever they could use it for after that, they would. It's interesting that you talk about Steiner. I was doing a little research on him last night. I found an interview with Danny Elfman. No flies on him either, by the way. Great composer.

And he was saying just what you said, that in those days it was so early that he had no real references to draw upon. Because he was originating it. They were inventing it as they went along. And the thing to remember is these guys really came out of the classical world. They were guys that were in Europe at a time of, you know, political unrest and all of this craziness. He was Viennese, I believe. Yes, yes, yes, he was. As was Hans Salter, right? That's right. I believe so. And, and you would, these guys were fleeing Europe, and they would find work either first in on Broadway or in

New York, doing shows, playing the piano at shows or whatever. But eventually a lot of them made their way out to Hollywood and they used all of their classical training, all of everything that they were writing, concert music at the time they were doing more what you would consider legit work. They used all of those influences and all that learning and put it into film scoring. And they became sort of the new, you know, when Mozart was young, right? Everyone thinks Mozart, you think of Mozart, you think it's all fancy and highfalutin and

everything. But the truth is, if Mozart was running around looking for jobs just like everyone else, you know, he would spend a few weeks in this small town of Italy trying to impress the guy in charge so that he would hire him to write a mass or write something for him. You see a little of that in Amadeus. Yeah, it's amazing. Work for hire. Yeah, just read the letters between he and his dad.

They're no different than what happens today. Here's something I always wondered with composers. But it's like when you watch a movie you know movies failing if you go boy that what witty dialogue that's so clever or when you go oh what a great shot that was yeah and and it's like sometimes i'll watch a movie and the music comes on and I'll go, okay, now I'm supposed to be sad or happy. The music is too obvious and manipulative is what you're saying? Well, it's because the movie is not working. You know, it's movies not working.

And they always think they can fix a movie with music. And you can't. You can't do it. You know, the scene has to be working to a certain level for you to be able to write to it honestly and then for someone to watch it and just let it go into them and just accept it on face value. When you start going, oh, that's pretty music or wow, that's really pushing me to feel this was a romance that is blossoming, that's when it's not working. And that just mainly goes back to the scene not working.

Now, there are times when just bad music is written too. So, I mean, there's that as well. But I would say mostly it's when a film isn't working. So you're saying, Gilbert, that you're out of the story. Yeah. Because you start noticing the trappings and the wallpaper. Yeah, you hear the music come on. And when you start going, oh, music is coming on now.

Yeah. That's a bad thing. And I'll go, okay, this movie tells me I should cry now, and this movie tells me the characters are getting ready for the big game. You know what? I noticed it in sitcoms, Mike, and you must be aware of this. I was watching an ABC sitcom, something with Jenna Fisher

who used to be on The Office. I can't remember it. It was a new sitcom about two exes that decide to live under the same roof. And they will telegraph jokes. They will telegraph comic moments with music. And it's very intrusive.

It's incredibly intrusive. And that's either because they think something is not working comically. Yeah, they don't have belief in the material. So they say, let's just put funny music on it. But that is the worst thing you can do. Yeah. I feel like if the comedy is not working, then make it emotional with the music somehow. Go the other direction, and maybe you can do something with it. But I have these rules where it's like once in a while you'll get asked, can you make this funnier?

And I'll be like, no, that's your job. Gilbert hears that every week. I'll be like, no, that was your job, not my job. That was your job to do that, not me. It's kind of like I've noticed in a lot of comedies I've seen over the years where they're doing some comedy business and the music is nonstop. It'll be annoying. Unless it's done ironically like the way Larry David uses the horns and the trombones and Curb Your Enthusiasm. That's fine.

But he's making a comical statement with that music. Yes, that works great. Right. That is the right way to do it. Right. But a lot of these sort of – and romantic comedy sort of became this weird genre all on its own. And a lot of them have this kind of music in it, which is so irritating to me. And it's all done usually with these pizzicato strings.

Doot, doot, doot, doot, doot. Yeah. You know, and you're just like, okay, now I just, I can't stand that. And they said music when the guy and girl are flirting with each other. And they'll give a look and it'd be. So you must spend a fair amount of your time thinking, how do I avoid cliche? How do I avoid, how do I find a way to run in the opposite direction and do something different than this? Yeah.

And turn it upside down. Like I can give you an example on Star Trek, the very first Star Trek. So the opening scene of the film was a scene in where, and hopefully it's not spoiling anyone, but you know what? It was out in 2000. Should have seen it by now. Exactly. Opening scene of the film, James Kirk's father has to take control of the ship and his wife is giving birth at the same time as they're being attacked by some crazy Romulan ship. So he orders everyone to evacuate, including his wife, who is in the middle of giving birth, and he has to stay on the ship by himself because, you know, unfortunately, the autopilot

system fails. Anyway, and there's a huge action scene. Everything is blowing up. They're trying to get people off the ship, and all of this is happening. And I remember watching it, and, you know, they use temp music in a lot of movies, you know, because when they're editing, they just need to know if it's working or not. And they'll put temp music in just to see, so I can show studios. And there was all this action music in there. And I, but I kept thinking when I was watching it, how sad that situation was, you know, this, I said, yes, this is an

action scene, but the truth is this is like a really sad, sad moment. So the piece of music I wrote was this really slow sort of a hymn like, like a piece of music that was speaking to the separation of a family, the fact that he was never going to meet his father, his father's going to sacrifice himself, all of that. And, uh, and I remember when JJ was there, he was just like oh my god that's it that's like because it really it speaks to the emotion of what you're trying to say so sometimes the action is not as important as what is going on inside the head of the character or inside the heart of the character interesting if you do a movie that's a sequel to a movie that some other composer did the music for. Is it kind of like that thing, like if you're an actor

and you're cast in a part that another actor played, it's a weird thing because you want to go out of your way not to do the same readings that that actor did. You have found yourself in that situation, haven't you? I have. Cars 2? It's a lot like being a teenager. There's a lot of rebellious feelings that go into when you sign on to something like

that, you know? And you want to do your own thing. So, yeah, I did Cars 2. I did, I'm trying to think. Well, the Mission Impossible movies aren't really sequels. No, they're episodes. You could almost say they're episodes in a way. I did Cars 2. I did – I'm trying to think. Well, the Mission Impossible movies aren't really sequels. They're new episodes. No, they're episodes. You could almost say they're episodes in a way.

And you have a main theme, which is fun to use. And Lalo Schifrin, you know, that theme is probably one of the best themes ever written. If not the best. Yeah, on the history of music, you know. It's been used as a gag theme more than – it's right there with Rocky. You're right, actually. It has been used in movies that have nothing to do with spies or anything as comedy. You're right.

So that one, that just shows you how big that theme is, how well-known it is. But the thing about going into a film, say like, well, Cars 2, I didn't reference anything that had been done in Cars 1 because this was a very different movie. It was a spy film, whereas the other one was much more of a family sort of hometown, all of that.

I know you both are huge Cars fans, I'm sure. I've seen them both. But I was able to do my own thing in that. Yes, exactly. And so I was able to do my own thing on that one. But even on something like Star Trek, here you have Star Trek, right, which has a huge legacy of music. Of course.

James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith, Alexander Kerridge, all of these guys who wrote beautiful music all over the years. And it was a really tough assignment. I remember thinking, like, what do I do to do something that is as good as all the stuff I grew up with and loved with it? And it took me a while to figure out the theme for that film. But it came down to sort of what I was talking to about before, which was being told, you know, after writing 17 versions of this theme that I was not happy with, JJ was not happy with, the producer, Damon Lindelof, who also worked on Lost with

me, he said, look, forget about Star Trek. Just forget it. Let's just say this is a movie that we're working on that is about two people that meet and become the best of friends and then go on to have these crazy adventures together. He goes, what would you write for that? And then, you know, that's when I went home. I wrote a whole new thing, and that became the theme for the film. Good advice.

Yeah, and it was sort of the baggage of what came before was really affecting me trying to do something that stood up to that instead of looking for what was at the core of what the story needed? © BF-WATCH TV 2021 Oh my God, It's so good. The best thing about the film. Yeah, it is. It is. I know. I don't want to knock the great Robert Wise or anything.

No, Robert Wise is amazing. He's amazing. But that score. Yeah, it's beautiful. It is. This is another thing with composers. Whether you're a brilliant composer or just like a regular working hack it's like there aren't there just some chords where you go right away like okay this chord with this chord

is sad and this chord with this chord is exciting yes yeah absolutely well What's the saddest chord? Is it D? D minor. D minor. Yes, supposedly. I mean, you know, it's just everyone says. But, you know, like if you do a major followed by a minor, that usually invokes a very melancholy feeling. You know? And a lot of it is just personal. So what

affects you when you hit those keys? But some of it is very universal as well. And I still think like, how is it possible people can still write new music after all the music that's already been written and you only have these 88 keys to work with? You know, that's all you have. How does it work out that you can continually do new,

you know, bring new things to life? I have no idea how it works. That is actually fascinating. You think everything's been done? You would think, you know, I mean, it's been hundreds and hundreds of years of this, right? And so many people doing it that, you know, and maybe at this point we are ripping off stuff we just don't even know. Well, let's talk about something sad and something emotional, and that is that wonderful opening sequence in Up, which you obviously won an Oscar for.

Yeah. And tell us the story of that, because I know part of it or all of it came to you in the shower. And Gilbert and I were talking about that scene, and I watched it last night. Even to watch it just by itself on YouTube, you will cry. I remember watching it for the first time, and it was just storyboards, and I cried. That's amazing. That is amazing. Didn't you say the engineers and the musicians cried while recording it, while laying it down?

Yes, and the problem is you have to record it more than once. So you do it once, you do it again, then you cry. You do it a third time, you're still crying. And by the fourth time, you're like, we have to stop this because we have to move on to a different cue. Can we play something a little happier? Because if we don't, everyone's just going to have to call their therapist or, you know, sit in the corner and cry. It's like that segment, it is one of those you could watch as a movie by itself. It's one of the most beautiful segments or one of the most beautiful things really ever, ever put ever committed to to celluloid.

I agree. And, you know, of course, Pete Docter, who directed that film, is a brilliant director, is one of my favorite people. And Ronnie Del Carmen, who who was the story supervisor and really boarded a lot of that as well. They put together just a beautiful, beautiful scene. And on its own, it just speaks to – it has such a universal truth to it. So when you watch that, that is something we are all going to go through at one point in our life or another. And you really realize that when you're watching it. You start thinking about the people in your life and your parents or the people that have moved on already. And it's really something that speaks to life in one of its truest forms, you know, life and death.

That's how it works. And when you're left alone, when someone leaves you, how do you handle that? How do you deal with that? And we probably all at one point or another have asked ourselves that, right? I mean, you know, if something like that were to happen, how would you go on? So I really think that scene speaks to you in that way. Now, you know, the first melody I wrote for Up wasn't very good, I don't think. I wrote this one melody. It was okay, and it sort of has the DNA of what it ended up being. But I remember playing it for Pete, and I was like, look, this

doesn't feel right yet, but let's just play it. I played it and he was like, yeah, it's almost, it's not quite there. And then I said, okay, I went back home and a few days I was just thinking about it. And I remember being in the shower in the morning and I came up with that melody that it ended up being, you know, and I was thinking about it and I thought, oh, that could work. But I didn't write it down and I didn't, you know, record it or even sing into a mic or any of that. I just said to myself, you know what, I'm going to wait a day. And if I wake up tomorrow and I can remember this, then maybe that's worth pursuing, you know. And so I let it go.

And then the next morning I woke up and I thought, okay, can I, am I, can I, and I remembered it and I thought, okay. And then at that point I went to the piano and I wrote it down and I played it for Pete and he really loved it because he really wanted something that had sort of a music box quality, but also could then grow, be big and emotional as well. But it's weird. Sometimes, you know, these things go through your mind all the time and a lot of them are red herrings. So I tend to try and see if I'm going to remember it or not. And that was one of the

ones where thankfully I remembered it. It's beautiful. Watching it again last night, and this is purely a gut response and I could be way off base, but it almost felt like a scene from a Chaplin film. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. I agree a hundred percent. You know, when you can tell a story with just visuals and music, I think that's one of the most beautiful experiences you can have. Look at that last scene in City Lights, you know, and how the music is subtle and how it doesn't intrude, but it just – No. He was a master at that. That's what I felt like watching that scene. I don't know if that ever occurred to you.

Well, Pete would be very happy to hear you think that way. And you've said too that you prefer to work – obviously, you're in a position where you can choose your projects, and obviously you prefer to work on something that you connect to emotionally. Yeah, yeah, I have to. It's like one of those things where if I'm not emotionally invested in the thing that I'm working on, because you work really long hours, as you know, on this stuff, and I just don't get inspired. I actually get angry if I'm working on something I don't like or with people that I don't like.

It really just sort of ruins my day. And I really avoid that at all costs. And so I'm very careful, A, with the projects I pick and with the people that I choose to work with. Now, I work with a lot of the same people over and over. people over and over. And whenever I, you know, I'm in a room or I'm on a, I'm about to meet with someone that I've never worked with before, you know, that first conversation we have is extremely important to me because I want to know if I can connect with this person or if there feels like there is some sort of, you know, personal sort of back and forth that I can have with them. And if that doesn't exist, then I always say no.

Don't you say that – I saw you say that when you're working with JJ, it's like you're two kids in the basement trying to assemble models. Yes, yes. It's the best. It's like literally when we're working together, it's the equivalent of that kid who would come to your house when you were from next door and say, hey, is Michael around? Can he come out and play?

It's nice. It's nice that you have that. Let's go – and then we go outside and we find an old trash can well let's see if we can turn this into a robot and of course you know we can't but we try but that is always what it feels like working with him and I have to say that you know with many of the directors

that I work with Brad Bird you know Pete Docter, Matt Reeves a lot of these guys that's the essence of our relationship, that love of just making things. Because of the statement, wouldn't it be cool if. Right. They've all got to be monster kids in their way. Absolutely.

Every single one of them. Every single one of them. And I really do look for that. Of course. Okay. Do look for that. Of course. Okay, just when the show is starting to get good, we're going to throw a monkey wrench into the works with this commercial word. Hey, Ontario.

Got any plans? How about a trip to the casino right here, right now? With DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone. Download the app and play whatever, wherever, and whenever. Your options for fun are endless.

On DraftKings Casino, your way is the only way to play. Join the fun on your time, in your space, and within your means. The best part is it's safe, secure, and reliable. So deposits and withdrawals happen when you're ready. Go all in on fun with DraftKings Casino. Head to the App Store to download. Explore a full suite of games and find your favorites today. DraftKings Casino,

the crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario, 1-866-531-2600. 19 and over and physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hi, I'm Bobcat Goldthwait, and I'm not dead, and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Now, you're friends, and you've worked with John Williams. Yeah. Now, John Williams seems to be the master of wonderment. You know, you know, if you want to show something incredible is happening, he's like the perfect composer for that. He is always been the best that there is, you know, and he certainly was a huge part of my childhood, a huge part of my, you know, I always refer to him as one of my most important teachers.

You know, just, you know, because a lot of what you learn in this business is by watching how other people do it, you know, and other people whose work you respect. Did you tell him that when you met him? Oh, yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And he's been so sweet to me over the years and very nice. And I remember after Up won, he called me the next day just to say congratulations and that he was really happy for me. And we worked together on – oh, this was actually one of my favorite things.

We worked together on an attraction for Disneyland. It was called Star Tours. So they were kind of redoing it, and they wanted to update the music in the queue line and all of these things. So I had this idea. I said, you know what? I said, you know, like why don't we do all the queue line music in – take John's themes but do them in the style of like escovel or or denny martin or you know like those kind of guys at which which i i absolutely love that music that very sort of early 60s rca stereo uh you know crazy you know very loungy thing you put some of that in the first

incredibles oh yeah some of that music it's all over i. It's all over. I'm in love with it. So I said, why don't we do it like that? And they looked at me like I was crazy. They're like, no, no, John's never going to go for that. John's not going to. Now, of course, I knew John started writing music like that. In fact, if you listen to his first theme that he wrote for Gilligan's Island, the Calypso thing.

Johnny Williams. Yes, Johnny Williams. Yes, Johnny Williams. And he had albums, which I have of all of these great like show tunes, but done in this really cool lounge jazz style. So I knew he's he came from there and they were like, well, no, John's not going to go for that. It's got to be very traditional. And I was like, look, let's just at least go ask him. So we set up this meeting. I go over to Amblin Studios where he has his office. I meet with him. I bring these demos that I made of like Yoda's theme but in this very sort of lounge jazz style. And I start playing all these for him.

And he's like, I really like this. He goes, you know, it reminds me. I did this Scandinavian documentary one time long ago, and I did a similar kind of a thing. And I was like – and he goes, I think this is great. We should definitely go this direction. And I was just like – I was like, ha-ha, see, see, I told you. But I love the fact that he came out of that world, and I love that. I love that world.

And that was – all of that jazz stuff is a huge influence, obviously. We've played his – we talk about him on this show, and we've been playing the Irwin Allen stuff. We were playing Lost in Space, his themes for that, and the Time Tunnel. They are jazzy. Oh, they're great. And I'm not a musician. I'm not an – I'm far from an expert on this, but I think you can hear the influences. Oh, absolutely.

All of his stuff is – it's beautiful. And usually once he's written something, you look at it and you're like, okay that's perfect damn it and henry mancini oh my god yep before he became really a revered uh composer he was working on all of these like kind of low budget sci-fi pictures yeah yes yeah i know i well all of those guys did look think about it like bernard herman was all over the twilight zone tv series right yeah yeah and goldsmith did twilight did twilight zones but and then you go further back into like the 40s you if i listen to a lot of um radio dramas like when i'm in the car i listen to a lot of radio dramas. Like when I'm in the car, I listen to old radio dramas. Oh, that's interesting. You know, Johnny Dollar.

Inner Sanctum. Inner Sanctum, Johnny Dollar, Suspense, all of these things. And whenever they say, and music composed by Bernard Herrmann or Jerry Goode, you'll hear these guys' names mentioned. Wow. So they were cutting their teeth in radio before then television came of age, and then they started – they moved into television and then eventually into movies. You don't have the similar kind of path now because technology was advancing at the time, and they just followed with it. They just went along with it. So I always love hearing the

names of these guys in those old radio shows and then on the old television series and then into movies. It's pretty impressive the amount of work that they did and the different genres they did it for. People talk about, well, I mean, obviously when you think of John Williams, you think of the blockbusters, but you think of the Spielberg movies, you think of John Williams, you think of the blockbusters. Yeah. You think of the Spielberg movies. You think of Jaws. You think of the Imperial March. But you never think of the fact that his original Gilligan's Island theme got tossed after season one. I didn't know that. Well, it was –

He had to do two Boston Space themes too. Yes, that's true. That's true. There are two of those. Well, actually, I think the Gilligan's Island theme was only it only lasted for the pilot. Oh, really? And then it was cast aside for the break in news. The one we all know. I was talking

about like the Poseidon Adventure and the Long Goodbye. Gilbert, a movie you like, Cinderella Liberty. Yes. That he scored family plot. Did he do Towering Inferno? Towering Inferno. Yeah. The Cowboys. Cowboys is an awesome score. Go back and listen to those scores and see the range of this guy. What was that music we were playing on this show?

Was that the Dave Grusin stuff? I wonder if it was Time Tunnel. We were playing. Well, Mike just met Dave Grusin a while ago and spent some time with him. Yeah, a few years back I was in Spain. I was doing a film music festival, and we were doing a film music festival and we were doing concerts. And he and I were doing concerts there together at the same time. And it was – the guy was unbelievable.

He was an incredible professional. He was so on point and he is very sort of serious at times. But he performed Goonies with the orchestra. Of course. He was playing the piano as he's conducting the orchestra. And it was really one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. And, of course, his music for The Firm, which he scored that movie just only on piano. There's nothing else.

It's just him and a piano. And you listen to that score with that movie. It's one of the most effective scores for a film that I've ever seen. It's one of my favorites. We were playing something. We were playing

It Takes a Thief or The Name of the Game. Oh, yes. Some of his TV stuff. Uh-huh. Yeah. Again, these guys. Wild Wild West is another one

that he did. Isn't that great? And also comedy. Good Times and Maud. Oh, yeah. Dave Grusin themes. I mean, again, versatile. And if you would meet him, you'd be like, really?

You did Good Times? Well, I mean, and Tootsie and The Graduate and Three Days of the Condor. I mean, there's a body of work there. Okay. Here's something that annoys me in, what was it? Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson. Oh, A Few Good Men. A Few Good Men.

A Few Good Men. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The music there that keeps playing throughout the movie is da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And whenever that happens, I'm singing, if ever I should leave you. Oh, it's too similar? Yes. Is that what it throws you? Interesting.

Well, we'll have to ask Mark Shaman about that. Yes. We want to ask you about, and we don't know the proper name for this, and I'm glad you talked about how characters, you talked about characters getting their own individual themes and how it goes back to Wagner and it goes back to opera, which I didn't know. When I was a kid, I watched Batman

as I'm sure you did. Of course. And the Joker had his own theme and the Riddler had his own theme. And I was at Billy May or Neil Hefty. Neil Hefty. And what is it called? Gilbert's obsessed with the music in the Andy Griffith show.

I don't think it's called interstitial music. Michael would know. What are you talking about? A recurring motif or a theme within a show. Like Don Knotts. When he'd get tough, it was da-da-da-da. It was almost Highway Patrol. We'llda-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- because we just say, oh, just play his theme there or his getting tough theme. Or like even on Lost, though, every character, so many characters on Lost,

and there was new themes for all the characters. But some characters had like sad theme, like Hurley, the character that Jorge Garcia played. You had sad Hurley and you had just kind of fun Hurley. So it would always be like, well, I'm going to play fun Hurley's theme here or I'm going to play sad Hurley and you had just kind of fun Hurley. So it would always be like, well, I'm going to play fun Hurley's theme here. I'm going to play sad Hurley. So it's exactly what you're talking about, that same idea. So it's not that exciting an answer.

It's interesting that there's no actual technical term for it. You could call it a motif, a leitmotif, which is a small theme. And that's probably, if you want to get serious about it, you could call it that. But I'm not going to say it. And just recently, we played the theme to Mayberry RFD. Right. And that was one of the interstitial music from the Andy Griffith Show. Yeah, they brought it back for a spinoff.

Or it was just easy to use. Yes. It was on the table, so let's use that. By the way, Lalo Schifrin, since you brought him up, and you told me a fun story on the phone that when you were hired by JJ to do Mission Impossible, you felt compelled to reach out to him? I did because I love that show. I love Mission Impossible. And of course, I love the music that Lalo wrote for it. And I was terrified, actually. I thought, oh my God, what if I do

something that this man who I revere. Still with us. Yeah, he's amazing. We're friends now. And I love that I can say that, but he's, at that time I didn't know him. And I said, what if I do something that this man who I consider a hero hates or doesn't like? That would break my heart. I said, so I got to find him. So I called him up. I introduced myself and I said, can I take you to lunch and talk to you about this? I'm about to do it. And he was like, sure, absolutely. So I met him at this Italian restaurant. And we're sitting there.

He's eating his salad. And we're having small talk. And I said, listen, look, the real reason is, and honestly, I felt like I was asking if I could marry his daughter or something. That's how nervous I was. Yes, exactly. And I said, I don't want to mess this up. And I would just love your advice. What should I do with the theme?

What shouldn't I do with the theme? You know, how can I avoid, you know, disappointing you? And he looked at me like I was crazy. And he was like, what are you talking about? He goes, just have fun with it. And I was like, that's it? He? He goes, just have fun with it. And I was like, that's it? He goes, yeah, just have fun.

Do whatever you want. It'll be fun. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah, it's just like, you know, it's jazz. You just go for it. And I always will remember, that's one of my favorite memories, that moment, because it really does, it sort of just opened me up to just say,

you know what, you're right. Nothing is sacred. And don't be afraid to just experiment and have fun with it. But yeah, Lalo's the best. Okay, quickly, since you're on the subject, three favorite TV themes. Mission Impossible. Yeah. Oh, $6 million man. I love $6 million man.

I love that theme. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the composer. I love Six Million Dollar Man. Six Million Dollar Man. I love that theme. I'm sorry. I'm blanking on the composer. I know. We can figure that out. We'll have somebody look it up here. But Six Million Dollar Man. I know you like Hoyt Curtin and Johnny Quest.

Well, Johnny Quest is absolutely one of the greatest TV themes ever written. Isn't that thing fantastic? You know, the Flintstones. Hoyt Curtin also, you know, Flintstones as well. And Hoyt Curtin was amazing. That was a guy who was a jazzer, you know, and you hear it in all the music. But the Johnny Quest stuff was a massive influence also for what I did in The Incredibles. I feel like that's a huge love letter to him in a lot of ways.

But there's tons. I mean, look. You like the Green Hornet theme? I love the Green Hornet. Especially the Al Hurt version. Al Hurt, Billy May, Lionel Newman, I think. Oh my God.

It's so good. When I was a kid, and I remember this. That's part of the drinking game on this show. Yes! Our fans say, take a shot when Gilbert says

when I was a kid. So they're taking a shot. We're not live, but they will. Yeah. When I was a kid, and this is true, I remember being outside playing

and my mother called me into the house. And why? Because Perry Mason was coming on. And as a kid, I really loved the Perry Mason theme. So she would call you into the house for this? Yes. Okay. Right.

Wasn't that Fred Steiner? Yes. Fred Steiner, I think you're right. Well, what about Mannix? Wasn't Mannix an awesome one, too? Mannix was Lalo Schifrin. Yeah, and that's a great theme. Am I mistaken?

I think it is him. I think so. I think it is him. I love that one. That's a great theme. I was in a movie that the score was Lalo Schifrin. What was it? Well, nobody ever saw it, but it was called Bad Medicine. Lalo Schifrin. What was it? Well, nobody ever saw it. Oh.

But it was called Bad Medicine. Lalo Schifrin did the score for Bad Medicine? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wait, what were you in that movie? Some Spanish student. I think he played a Spaniard with Steve Guttenberg.

You played a Spaniard? Yeah. Yeah, typecasting. Tony Sandoval and Alan Arkin was in it. Do you remember any of your lines? Can you give us a bit of your Spanish accent? Well, all of us. It was kind of like how in the Charlie Chan movies,

you'd have white actors playing the main Asians, and real Asians wouldn't have any lines right so and that's the way bad medicine was i don't think any spanish people were in the lead probably not in lalo schifrin's resume on his resume bad medicine i'm gonna have to watch this. Were you doing an accent? Yeah, yeah. And all of us are varying degrees of bad Spanish accents. And I remember one line in particular, I tell Steve Guttenberg, the line is supposed to be, old shoes must be black. Shoes must be black. And I say it in a Spanish accent, and it comes across very clearly in my Spanish accent as, Old Jews must be black.

Old Jews must be black. Old Jews must be black. Just a Sammy Davis reference? Or Yafit Kodo. Or Yafit Kodo. Do you know Yafit Kodo is Jewish,it Kodo you know Yafit Kodo is Jewish Mike no you will learn

you'll learn on this show I'm learning something he's one of the two Jewish Bond villains him and Joseph Wiseman who played Dr. No we are going deep

deeper deeper than you want to go Frank promised me Frank promised me we were going to go deep and this is I never let you down before. Oh, another case of a cartoon that rose above music-wise is Charlie Brown.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Vince Giraldi. Vince Giraldi, yes, yes, yes, yes. Vince Giraldi. Vince Giraldi, yes. I mean, that stuff is like as classic as Mozart, you know what I mean, in my mind. It feels like it definitely reached that level. And creates emotion. Yeah, it does. If you watch the Charlie Brown's Christmas.

If you hear those pieces on the radio during the holidays, it's just like it melts you immediately. Yeah. You know, you're instantly brought back. And that's what I love about music. You could hear something and it instantly brings you back to a moment in time. It's like when I smell, you know, hair mousse, I instantly think of senior prom. And that is true. That is a great thing about music.

There's a song called Precious and Few. It was a pop song by a band called Climax, probably before you were born. And every time I hear the song, it takes me back to reading a Fantastic Four comic, and I even remember the issue. This is too much information. No, it's not.

That stuff is stored. That stuff is hardwired. I love it. And I can trace it. I can look up the song when it charted. I can find the corresponding Fantastic Four issue. Oh, that's so cool. And 1972, it all lines up.

I have a similar thing with an Avengers comic. Whenever I see a 7-Eleven, I always think of this one particular Avengers comic that I bought. And I don't know why, but I remember because maybe I rode my bike there and bought it with my own money or whatever. But it was, you know, with the Human Torch and all of those guys, everyone was like one of those crazy issues. But I always think about that. Just like it's weird what triggers your memory. So how exciting is it for you, obviously, to now be composing for Marvel films? It's really fun.

Being a superhero kid and particularly a Marvel kid. It's really fun. You know, and I in particular, I mean, I really like the movies that are about like a character. It's hard, always hard when you're doing something that's about a ton of characters. So I always gravitate towards like – I remember Spider-Man. When I saw Civil War, Captain America Civil War, there's a moment in there where Robert Downey Jr. goes to visit Peter Parker. And it's a small scene in the film, but it's sort of Peter Parker's introduction into the Marvel universe. And I remember watching that scene, and it's probably, I don't know, eight minutes long, if that.

And it was the most incredible scene. There were no superhero costumes at all in it. It was just literally Tom Holland and Robert Downey Jr. in a bedroom talking to each other. And I thought, that's Spider-Man? I want to score that. I want to work on that. And I remember as soon as the movie was over,

I sent an email to Kevin Feige, who heads up Marvel, and who's just really a fantastic guy. He's just like us. He loves this stuff so much. He's doing a us. He loves this stuff so much. He's doing a great job with it. Yeah. And I said,

who's doing Spider-Man? I want to do Spider-Man. I want to do that so badly. Please let me do Spider-Man. You know, and it was the same thing on Doctor Strange, really. I love what you did

with Doctor Strange. Oh, thanks. That was such a, I always loved that comic. I love that character, you know, and I like the guys that are sort of

a little bit sort of left field, you know, and the movies that are about sort of their development as because I feel like then you can really musically, you know, write something. Someone who's done interesting things and he'll usually in the movies where he does this, he'll pick old pop songs. And that's Martin Scorsese. Yes, yes. He does a lot of scoring with that. And it'll be a song that doesn't match what's going on

with the scene. No, it could be a beautiful sort of like, you know, 60s Motown ballad against someone getting beaten with a baseball bat. Yeah. Yep. Yes. He does it beautifully. Well, there's using Donovan's Atlantis in Goodfellas. Yeah.

Well, and that's the idea of that contrast, right? So what can you do to get the actual emotion that, you know, because it's not truly about a scene like that. It isn't about someone's head being bashed in, although sometimes it can be. But he's so smart in that it's violent and it's ugly in front of you, but he's also with those songs reminding you sort of what it's really about, you know, what's really going on here.

And that's sort of what we were talking about earlier, is just speaking to the truth of the scene. And he's a master at that. He's the best. I've heard you say that sometimes you get a little caught up in doing an homage that you lose sight of the characters. You lose sight of what your main job is. Yes. Which is servicing the story and servicing the emotion. Yes.

Yeah, you can – nowadays, there are so many films being made that are sort of reboots or sequels to what we've known or what we grew up with. There's a lot of that in our pop culture right now. So it can be easy to say, well, every time this thing is on screen, I must play the thing that played on screen with it, you know, 25 years ago. And I think, you know, that's harmful because that's not doing what's right for the story. That's doing what's right for pop culture. And you're not paying attention to the actual and so the thing I try to do and the hardest thing is to do is to really

focus on the story. What is happening in the story? And if it works out to you, something like that, great. But don't do it just because it was. You better have you have to earn those moments, because they were earned when they were originally written back when whatever movie franchise you want to talk about, you know, they didn't just use them whenever they wanted, they used it when they needed it. And nowadays, the tendency is just use it everywhere. And, and,

and I really, I really dislike that. I want to kind of, you know, just at least for me, make sure I pay attention to what's happening story-wise. So if I do that, it earns it. Let me ask you an example because you obviously, you admire very much Jerry Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes soundtrack. Oh, yeah. And now you get a Planet of the Apes assignment from Matt Reeves.

And do you have to sit and smack yourself on the hand and say, don't just go down the homage to Jerry Goldsmith. Oh, I absolutely have to do that. Because what you need to understand about me and Planet of the Apes is that I was obsessed as a kid with Planet of the Apes. I knew that about you. To the point that when I was probably 10 years old, 11 years old, or 9 years old, I would go to the store with my dad. There was a Pathmark grocery store down the street from us, and I would go there with him.

Now, they had a tiled, a sort of linoleum-tiled floor, and they were about 12 inches across. And if you put your foot on one and then skip the tile and then put your foot on the other, your legs were wide enough apart where you looked like an ape walking, you know, in the way that they did in the movies. So I would follow my dad as he was shopping and getting things around the store, walking like an ape, you know, so that's how obsessed I was. And I still have all my Planet of the Ape action figures and the treehouse and all of those things. So flash forward all these years, working on that, yes, I definitely wanted to sort of have an echo of what Jerry did for that very first one especially. But I didn't want it to become about that homage because, again, that's where you make the mistake and that's when you start losing sight of what –

music is a really powerful weapon in storytelling. When I got my first job with Brad Bird working on The Incredibles, he called me up to say, all right, you're hired. You got the job. He goes, but it's going to be the hardest job you've ever had. I said, okay, I'm up for it. I'm ready. He said, now listen, what I mean is your music could ruin my movie and i'm like it's a nice how do you do yeah i'm like well this is a great way to start a relationship and i said um

well i i i and he cut me off he says no what i mean man is that if you're thinking one thing and I'm thinking another and we go in separate directions, we're going to ruin this. So you and I have to be hand in hand the whole way with the storytelling. So whatever you're doing has to support what I'm trying to do with the story. And it was a very, you know, at the time, I thought it was a little aggressive to start out that way. But looking back, he was absolutely right. And it forced me to always really be careful and think about what I'm doing musically, because I could easily get the audience thinking something that they shouldn't be thinking and then derail the whole thing. And then the next thing you know, Gilbert's wondering, why are they playing funny music

behind this scene? You've taken Gilbert out of the movie. You brought up Johnny Quest to him, didn't you? Wasn't that the point where you guys came together on it? When we first met up at Pixar, I went up there and I met with him and I'm at this great studio. And I, you know, I wanted this film so badly. And but Brad didn't know me from your first feature. We should point out. Yeah, it was my first feature that was going to be in a movie theater. And so I met with him and he's like, OK, so, Will, what did you like as a kid?

And I started going into a lot of animation because I loved animation. And I mentioned Johnny Quest, and he's like full stop right there. He was like, Johnny Quest, that was my favorite. And we went into this crazy deep dive about Johnny Quest and Hoyt Curtin and all different episodes and all the storylines we liked and all the, you know. And it was a real bonding moment because I feel like he knew that, okay, he's on the same boat that I'm on. You know, he loves the things that I love. And we have been, you know, we get along great ever since. It's just so much fun working with them. Now, are you a tremendous fan of when they're making a sequel

and they take the original composition and do a rap version of it? What do you mean, like the Addams Family rap? Oh, there's been so many. I sort of like that song. Well, yeah, no, it's not my favorite. It's not my favorite. But you know what? They got to do what the kids are into these days.

What are the kids like? That's what we should do. It's what the kids like. And it's always such a weird marketing thing. Actually, that comes into an interesting conversation about end credit songs. It used to be that you would get a great end credit suite of the music that you had in the film. And it's very rare now that you get that.

You know, now it goes right to a song because they want to have something to sell. You know, they want to have something to sell. And if you can get someone to write a song and slap it on the end of a film, it'll sell. You know, we actually had that on Mission Impossible. I remember we were planning on doing this end credit suite, and word came down, no, no, no, Kanye's going to write a song for it. And I was like, um, what?

For the Mission Impossible 3, I was like, really? Sometimes you get someone who's a big fan of a franchise or something, and they go, I want to write a song. But this was like, I remember the music supervisor telling me, no, man, it's art meets commerce. It's going to be great. And I'm like, art and commerce are never great when they meet.

It's always terrible when they meet. That's how Prince ends up in a Batman movie. Exactly. Right. Nothing against Prince. Nothing against Prince because he's amazing. Right. But that's exactly right. Right. a Batman movie. Exactly. Right. Nothing against Prince. Nothing against Prince because he's amazing. Right. But that's exactly right.

Right. Yes. And then when Prince came out with that album, Music Influence. Yes. It's fired by. Yes. And I still go, what the fuck does that mean? It doesn't mean anything.

You really think Prince was sitting there looking at Frank Miller comics and going, oh, this is inspiring me to write this? No, it was John Peters saying, how can we sell 10 zillion albums? Exactly. Exactly. And you know what? They make money, and because they make money, they keep doing

it, and it is, you know. What do you think of the creative choice to use the pop soundtrack for the guardians of the galaxy series that worked great because that was tied to the story yes you know that's organic organic it came out of the story it came out of the fact that his mother made him right mixtape so i thought that's brilliant that works great and i'm always happy to see that because i'm not against pop songs in movies or anything like that. It's just about use it in the right way.

It also sets it apart from the rest of the Marvel Universe. It makes the Guardians movies their own thing. Yep. And it never feels forced. It always just works. What annoys me in movies, and it gets back to the Mission impossible theme when they go oh we'll play this and that'll be the laugh yes exactly yeah it's true one of the naked gun movies you do it use it or something i don't know it sounds i know what you're talking about they'll play the rocky theme

oh but the name you just mentioned one of my favorite gets a check so i'm just saying you made one of you just mentioned one of my favorite movies But Bill Conti gets a check, so. I'm just saying you made one of – you just mentioned one of my favorite movies, The Naked Gun. Yeah, we had David Zucker in here. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We love him too. But yeah, it is annoying. They can just license anything, you know.

And sometimes you get approval over that and sometimes you don't. I remember, you know, the video game Medal of Honor that I did years ago. There were times when people wanted to license it to use for their political campaigns. And I would be like, no. Thankfully, I get to say yes or no to that. And I'm like, no, it's not meant for that. It shouldn't be used for that. Or like there was an ad campaign for how to not waste food. And it was a national ad that the government was doing, and they wanted to use the music from Up.

And of course we were like, sure, use that because that's a good thing. So sometimes you have control over it. Sometimes you don't. Good cause. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we play a little bit of The Incredibles, Mike? Yeah.

A little bit of the – what do you call it, the main theme, the closing theme? We'll call it whatever you want to call it. The Incredibles theme? Yeah, sure. And maybe you can, and we won't play much of it. We have about two, three minutes of it queued up. But I thought maybe you could talk us through some of it. Yeah, I should actually send you right now.

I can send you a link to the Elastastigirls then brand new theme oh something really cool that's really fun if you want to see something like that all right i'm just shared the file with you tell me if you uh got it there it goes talk us through some of the what was going through your head some of the influences some of the what was interesting on your head, some of the influences, some of the... Well, it was interesting. On the second one, well, the first one was all about sort of capturing this idea of a spy movie, you know, vibe that John Barry sort of invented in his day, who did it brilliantly. But you also had people like Henry Mancini and Hoyt Curtin, like we talked about. And so there's a lot of influences, I think, that go into that original incredible score. And it's very much, as I said earlier, a love letter to all those guys whose music I loved growing up.

And when it came time to do the second one, 14 years later, I was telling Brad, let's not make this movie. Come on, Brad, let's not make this movie. Come on, Brad. Let's not do it. Let's go do something new. Forget it. We did that one. It worked. We got lucky.

People like it. And what if we screw this one up? What if we do something? And we got into a huge back and forth argument about this one night at dinner. I lost, of course, and it's out. And honestly, I'm super happy to have done it because I think all the fears I had of not being able to match expectations of what we did before sort of went away when I realized, look, I learned a lot in 14 years. Now, honestly, I still have a lot to learn, and I hope I continue to learn as I go. Honestly, I still have a lot to learn, and I hope I continue to learn as I go. But I also learned a lot, and jumping into this movie was a much easier process for me than it was to start the last one.

The last one was all out of fear. Sure, it was your first gig. Yeah. Your first feature gig, right. I was nervous about would people like it or not, but I had way more fun writing than I did on the last one, you know, and I was able to just sort of naturally go into all my influences that I loved without referencing, without listening or going back. I'm just like, I want the feeling of this, or it was more about that feeling I had when I watched Johnny Quest or when I watched the Pink Panther or when I watched, you know, James Bond, it was all about that. So the new one was great. And I also

got to write, I always had wanted to write a theme for Elastigirl, but there really was no room for it in the last movie. And so on this film, she's a real big part of the story. She is the center of the story. Holly Hunter's character. Yeah, Holly Hunter. And so I was like, great. So one of the first things I sat down to do is write – I'm writing a theme for Elastigirl. And yeah, so that's that thing I just sent over. Here we go. GANZO So, wow. It's fun, right? I mean, it was just such a blast to do. Wow. It's fun, right? I mean, it was just such a blast to do.

And anytime you can work with someone playing congas and bongos, that's the best. That, like, brings back every secret agent movie I ever saw. Yeah, but that's the trick, isn't it? A little homage to, I heard a little, correct me if I'm wrong, a little bit of Henry Mancini's Peter Gunn. Oh, yeah, with the dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum. Yeah, it's definitely all sort of like a part of me. So when it comes out, like you're just listening to years of influences that I had growing up.

It's the synthesis, right. But it has to be original too. It has to work on its own merits. Yes, exactly. While paying homage to all of these people. Yeah, it can't rely on that stuff. It needs to kind of be able to stand on its own two feet. And the players that I get to work with

are off the charts, crazy talented. Like that cue that you just heard, we probably only recorded that three times, you know, and they had never seen it before. So there's no rehearsal. You just throw music in front of them and they play it. Yeah, these are the masters. They're amazing. And the bass player on that is a gentleman named Abe Laboriel who played with Henry Mancini. In fact, Abe was brought over to play in film scores and play on pop records and stuff by Henry Mancini.

Incredible. He was born in Mexico City, and Henry Mancini found him somehow and brought him in. And at his first session that Abe was having, his first Hollywood session, and he was nervous as anything. And so Abe is there with his bass. This is years ago. And he's looking at the sheet music. Henry Mancini is on the stand and he counts off and they start playing and they're recording and Abe is diligently playing what's on the page, paying what's on the page. And then Henry stops everything in the middle of the queue. It's like, hold on, hold on a second. He goes, Abe, what the

hell are you doing back there? And Abe was like, oh God did i what did i do uh and he goes well i'm just i'm i'm playing what you wrote and he goes i didn't bring you here to play what i fucking wrote just do your thing you know because abe is one of the most creative bass players you'll ever hear and man he was on the first Incredibles. He's been on everything I've ever done. And even when it's not necessarily a bass-type score, I still love having him on there because he always adds something creative and beautiful to the music.

How cool is this? This crosses generations. Yeah. And we've talked about studio musicians. Yes. And how they're like these unsung heroes because a lot of how we remember our favorite songs. Like the Wrecking Crew. Yeah.

Exactly. Stuff they created. Stuff that they made up. Yes, exactly. We got to get Hal Blaine on this show. Well, we could do, you know known so many of these guys and that would be actually a fun show to bring in a bunch of the guys that that that are it's and it's mostly the rhythm guys that really you know a violin player can't really go off chart

you know like they got because they got because there's there's 24 of them and if one of them is deciding I'm going to improvise on this it's not going to work you know most of the instruments in New York just sort of have to stick to what's written for them. But the rhythm guys are the ones that you really want to give some room to. You don't want to – and unless there's something specific, I will write moments of specificity for – how do you say that? Specificity. That's it. Say it like that.

I'll write very specific things for moments. But in between, you want to just let them do their thing. And they'll always add just this incredible layer of magic to what you have. When you're sitting there, you're saying, okay, I got to make this sound. It's got to work in its own right. But it's going to be a little bit reminiscent of this, a little bit. And you say, I need a bongo because there's a bongo in the mission impossibles well there's a possible theme there was a bongo on all of those old rca lounge records that i had growing up you know all of that stuff which which i love which influence those

guys oh man and so you have people like alex acuna who was the original drummer from Weather Report. He's in my orchestra. He plays on all of my things. And they are just the most, I mean, just incredible people you'll ever meet. And they just have fun. They have so much fun. And that's important to me that we all have fun at the sessions. A lot of sessions are very sort of tense and serious. And ours are completely opposite of that. Yeah, I've seen you conducting in costumes and masks and things.

It happens. Yeah. Didn't Jerry Goldsmith conduct in an ape mask? He did. That's the rumor. No, he did. Actually, there's a great photo of him. Did you know that, Phil?

No. He put the ape mask on to conduct Planet of the Apes score. He did. There's a great picture outside the Fox scoring stage where he is wearing the mask, and a few of the players are also wearing ape masks, and he's conducting. Fantastic. Yep. And is there ever going to be a law passed in movies and TV

where you can no longer use the Hallelujah Chorus. I would sign that bill. I'll sign that bill. Yes, let's send it. Let's send it on to the- Or a record or a needle being pulled off a record in a trailer. Yes, yes. Or walking on sunshine.

Well, we don't want to prevent these people from being paid. There's that. Roy paid. There's that. Speaking of the Incredibles, I just thought of an example of a moment where somebody has their own theme. We're calling it a motif. When the French villain first shows up, what is his character's name? Bon Voyage. Bon Voyage. Bon Voyage.

You go to a little bit of accordion. Yes. I know. I know. I'm so ashamed. Great little wrinkle. It's a great example. And Randy Newman comes from a family.

Yes, he does. Oh, yeah. Now, is it? I heard he does come from a family. Yeah. A mother, a father. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. He, yeah. Sure. I heard he does come from a family. Yeah. A mother, a father. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. He's got it all.

A family of legendary composers. Yeah, and I think it was Alfred Newman who wrote... Yes. And then Star Wars starts. That's how I remember. Weren't you asked to compose something similar? I did a 100th anniversary thing for Paramount. Yep, we did a new logo for them. How cool.

And then we also did that Newman 20th Century Fox fanfare. I redid it for the last Planet of the Apes, and it's all like, it's just very Planet of the Apey. It's just very, it's so strange. Do you have that? Do you have that one? I don't know. I was going to send you that, too, because that's pretty funny.

Send it to us, and we'll play it at the end. I want to give a shout-out to your sister, Maria, who's sitting there. We're looking at Mike on Skype. He's in L.A. And because Maria was instrumental, hello, Maria. Even though she doesn't remember meeting me back in the 80s, I'm not insulted. Is this on? Yeah, hold on one second.

Yeah. Hello. Hi, Maria. We want to give you a shout out for being instrumental in setting up and arranging Michael's 50th birthday celebration at Royal Albert Hall. I know, yeah. She produced that whole concert. Now, you can imagine what that's like

when you have, how many directors did you have there? Yeah, there was eight directors. Eight directors there that are going to be. I got to direct the directors. Yes. Oh, nice. What an ego trip. And you said you were just. So it was JJ.

It was Pete Docter. Matt Reeves. Matt Reeves. Colin. Barry Bedwards. Colin Trevorrow. Right. Yeah.

And but actually one of the greatest things that we had there was the great Gonzo. The Gonzo from the Muppet Show. I know you're a Muppet guy. Oh, my God. I love the Muppets so much. And I had to get a poodle. Yes. A live poodle.

Because we came up with this skit that we were doing when Gonzo comes in and interrupts what I'm conducting and just to say happy birthday, but of course he's interrupting everything and it is... Oh, we have it here. Send it back. Send it to that email address. And so she had to go and find a poodle, a live poodle.

In London. Yes. On short notice. And it all worked. It was hilarious. But then Gonzo sang one of my favorite songs in the world. The whole concert was all my music except for this one bit which was where Gonzo sang I'm Going to Go

Back There Someday written by Paul Williams who of course has been here. Come on Paul. He's been here. Paul's the greatest. We're going to send you a clip of Gilbert singing the Rainbow Connection with Paul. He's been here. Paul's the greatest, right? We're going to send you a clip of Gilbert singing the Rainbow Connection with Paul. Oh, okay. Hey, at my 60th birthday party, you can come and sing that. There you go, Bill.

You've been warned, Mike. Why are there so many strong support rainbows? It's so beautiful. On the other side. Are there tissues here? I'm crying. It's so beautiful. Are there tissues here? I'm crying. I need. But I'm sorry I cut off your Paul Williams story.

Oh, no, no, no. Your favorite song. It was just, and he played it there, and we had the orchestra play along with it, and it was just such an emotional moment. And just to have him do that live on stage, where I'm on stage at the Albert Hall with Gonzo Well you sang with him

and I sang with him so it was like it was such a probably one of my favorite moments in life What a thrill and what an honor to have all of these people

show up and have this orchestra Yeah Legendary orchestra playing your compositions It was fun It was fun It was an insane evening.

We had 10 stormtroopers, too. And 10 stormtroopers. They did. They introduced Rogue One. None of them could pee, exactly. One movie I've spoken about before as far as great theme music for a mess of a film. And that was the original Casino Royale. Oh, the Burt Baccarat.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The music is amazing. That opening theme music, you can't get better. I mean, the movie's horrible. Yeah, it's not so great, but the music's awesome. And, I mean, that happens a lot, right? I mean, not every movie can be great, and it's hard. But, you know, a lot of times, a lot of the movies out of the 60s,

there's a lot of probably bad movies, but that you love the music to. Absolutely. And what I love about that time period, there was such crazy, you know, experimentation going on. You could do jazz orchestra, and no one even blinked an eye. By the time that I was doing The Incredibles, no one was doing it. And there was even questions as if, is this going to be popular? Are people going to understand this kind of music anymore?

I remember one time working on a television show where I wanted to do a jazz score for it. It was an I won't name the network and I won't name the show. But for the pilot, it didn't last very long. It only lasted seven or eight episodes, I think. But for the pilot, I wrote this jazz score with, uh, I had a, um, a jazz bucket player, like those guys down in the, in the, in the subway that you see with that are playing the buckets. Um, that was sort of the drum set for it And everything was really jazzy. And one of the studio execs said, you can't do jazz in TV. People don't understand jazz. You can't use jazz in a television show. And I'm like, literally, this was the comment. And the score got thrown out.

And I ended up not scoring the show, thankfully, because it just would have been a nightmare. But I remember thinking, are you kidding? So every time you try to do something different in this town, there's someone there to slap you down and tell you why you shouldn't. No, we can't be different. It must all be the same or else we won't make any money. People only will eat the same thing over and over again.

Well, the thing about The Incredibles is you almost think you're watching a period film because the music is so reminiscent of that stuff, of the 60s stuff. There's a little bossa nova in there. I watched it last night and the scene where Bob is kind of getting his mojo back. Yes, yeah. And you're playing, I mean, I'm almost feeling like I'm listening to Sergio Mendes in the Brazil 66. And I know this because I know you so long. I know this comes from listening to your father's records in the basement.

Yes, I love that stuff so much. And you're just pouring everything in there. And I'm watching it with my wife, and she says it's like we're watching a retro superhero movie. Yes, exactly. Set in 1962 or 63. And the design element of the film as well. And the design, obviously. Everything there, it all works together when you're looking at it

and you're just like, wow, it is a big throwback. And I love it for that. But there's not many, you don't get that many chances to do things like that in this town. Tell Gilbert, too, and he'll get off on this. You scored, and was this for um for I think for JJ for Cloverfield you you did a tribute to Japanese monster movies yes I did I did I did I love all Godzilla movies and and wrote you know we do too versus destroy all monsters

exactly I love those things and Godzilla died And Godzilla died recently. I forget. Well, he'd been sick. Yeah, he was the guy who was Godzilla. Oh, you're right. Yes. Yeah, the guy in the costume. Yeah. He died.

Two years ago. Yeah, yes. But as a kid growing up, I mean, I grew up outside of Philadelphia, so they had this thing, Creature Double Feature, on Saturdays. And we would watch me and my brother, Anthony, that's where we were at 1 PM, whenever it started, that's where we were watching it. And so much of it were, were films like that. But that's where I also found my love of Ray Harryhausen, you know, and Willis O'Brien and all those guys. Because man, did I love

stop motion. And I loved anything that had to do with a guy in a suit smashing a city. I was in for that. I was like, I am all in. And in fact, I was telling you, Frank, about the short film that I just— Oh, you just did with Pat? With Pat. With Pat, right. And the film is literally about a guy that does that.

Oh, that's hilarious. And it is. You guys are completely cut out of the same cloth, so you must have been simpatico. Oh, no, no. We're good friends, but he was not happy with me because the suit was like, like I explained the Stormtrooper suit. This suit was even worse because it was like 300 degrees in the suit he had to wear. You cast Patton as a guy who puts on a monster suit and steps on cities.

Yes. Fantastic. And I heard Willis O'Brien, he also did the original Lost World, the silent movie. Yes, yes, that's right. And then they called him back to do the Claude Rains Lost World, you know, in color and sound and everything. And he was excited about what he would do. And they wound up using the name Willis O'Brien, but having that shitty footage of actual lizards.

Yes, and they would glue the horns and different things. Yes, I know. I remember watching those as a kid and not liking them. And sometimes they would poke the lizard to make it move. You could tell. Or they'd throw them at each other so they could fight. Yes! Oh, my God.

Incredible. I always thought that was the worst cheat in the world when they had lizards. Did you ever, one of my favorite movies is a movie called Valley of the Gwangi. Oh, yeah. Sure. And the dinosaur's like a blue color. Yes, it is. But the cowboys, when they're going after trying to rope him, it's such a great scene.

The score for that film is amazing as well. That's a lot of fun, that movie. Oh, I love it. Since we mentioned Royal Albert Hall, I want you to tell your story of who came into the studio while you were recording in London. Not long ago. I think you were. Well, I was lucky enough to work on something with Paul McCartney a few years back. And I was helping to arrange a song that he had written. And we

recorded it here in LA. And we kind of became friends through that. And so when I was recording Doctor Strange at the Albert Hall, I mean at Abbey Road, Abbey Road, I was at Abbey Road recording Doctor Strange. And I said, maybe I'll just call him and see if he wants to come over. I don't know if he's in town or not. And I did. And he was like, yeah, come over. I'll be around tomorrow. Are you going to be there? I said, sure.

So he came over. And just sitting in the room with Paul while we're recording Doctor Strange. Now, one of the things we were recording that day was this really sort of Beatles-esque version of the Doctor Strange theme. And he's sitting there listening to it and he goes, sounds very walrus. And I was like, yeah, it does. I said, look, you guys invented everything. We have no choice but to copy what you did. And he's just – what I love about him is he'll come in.

He'll say hi to the musicians. He's just – he'll tell you tons of stories about his time working there. It's so beautiful because he just loves music so much. And he just loves the creation of music. He respects the musicians. And he has wonderful stories about George Martin, who did such brilliant work for the Beatles as well. And he's just truly a guy who loves what he does. And he's one of those guys, like Scorsese, knows every kind of film. He knows music. He's an absolute student yes absolutely

any reference you pull out i mean he probably can have a conversation about neil hefty and franz waxman oh absolutely he's obsessed with it in the way that we are obsessed with movies and everything that we talk about absolutely and it all comes from a really honest place so you don't agree with quincy jones that the beatles didn't know music at all, that they were terrible? Well, they may not have known music in the traditional sense that we would say, oh, a person must play a piano and look at notes and play the notes that are there. But they had an instinct for music that no one else had, you know? And I think in part because they weren't classically trained, they were able to break the rules in ways that guys who are classically trained are afraid to do.

So they would do chord progressions that you would never hear anyone else and simply because, you know, they didn't know any better. And yet they were still creating something that no one had ever heard before. So they were breaking rules by the fact they didn't really have the training that everyone else did. And so I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of or anything to put down.

I think the creation of music can happen in millions of different ways. It doesn't only have to happen in the way that somebody who's classically trained feels like it should happen. They did okay. They did okay. I think they changed the world in my opinion.

Yeah. Tell us about how you're working with the importance of music education and how much you do for that cause and how important it is. I'm on the board of a group called Education Through Music. called Education Through Music. Because in Los Angeles, as with many other places in the country, when a school is in financial trouble, the first thing they'll do is kill the arts. They will just lose the arts. They will never lose the science or the math or the history or the things.

But they'll happily take off the fourth wheel, which is the arts. And cars can't run without four wheels. And there's this feeling that the arts are not as important as science, math, and history, and everything else. I think they are all equally important. And a child needs the education of all of those things in order to be a well-rounded individual. They don't have to go into music, but learning music can help you with math. You know, learning math can help you with music. And learning music gets your imagination going. It gets your brain working in ways.

There are tons of studies that talk about developmentally how music can help a child as they're growing up. So, I mean, I can go on forever about it, but this group that we're involved with- You just tell how our listeners can contribute or donate or get involved. If you look up education through music, and I believe the website is etmla.org I would imagine and what we do is schools that have had their music programs removed due to financial difficulties, we put a new music program in. We hire teachers to go and continue the music programs for the kids. We help them get instruments, we help them learn and we create an environment where they can stay after school and learn music as opposed to going home

and doing nothing. You know, they can actually continue their arts education, which I think is so important. So important. That's admirable work, Mike. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. Before we let you get out of here, you've got a life to get onto. You've got two movies opening. Did you get the Fox thing? We're going to play it. Frank has it now, so let's pop that in.

You can play it now, whatever you want. Fantastic. That had like a jungle beat to it. I was almost King Kong presents. Exactly, yes, yes. If King Kong were writing music, there it would be. And at the end, I was reminded of when you would go to the movies in the 80s, I guess it was, and the Dolby thing would come up. Yes. Do you remember that?

Yep. It would just build a crescendo and tell you that you were watching a movie in Dolby Sound. What a joy it must be to do that kind of stuff. It was so fun. It was so fun. I'm sure they're rolling over in their grave, but you know what? It was neat to do. There's so much we could go into.

We've hit the 90-minute mark, and we're going to let you and Maria get out of here. Come back sometime and tell us about working with Albert Brooks. Oh, okay. Yes, that'll take another 90 minutes. Well, he's a hero. Absolutely. We want to know about when you were interviewed by William Shatner. Okay.

When I got my own planet from William Shatner. He gave me my own planet. But there's so much we have to save something for another show. I had questions for you from listeners that I didn't get to. One guy says, Rob Martinez, though, does say, please tell Michael the score for Ratatouille is perfection. Oh, well, thank you, Rob. I appreciate it.

But I'm quickly going to tell, and I told this to Gilbert, too, today, and he got a kick out of it. I'm quickly going to tell the Speed Racer story. Yeah, please do. You and I met at night, even though your sister doesn't remember me. You and I met, I think 1988, 87, something I may have the year wrong. And we were hanging out in New Jersey.

I knew you were obsessed with Planet of the Apes then, by the way. I think you told me. But you, out of the blue one day, you said to me, God, man, I'd love nothing more than to write a Speed Racer movie. And I said, wow, that's interesting. There should be a Speed Racer movie, Michael. And who do you see in this?

And you said? Well, I said Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder. Right. I thought that would be perfect. And a live action. You were working in Disney publicity at the time, probably. Yes. You were doing that internship.

Yep. And Michael and I met back in film school days. And years later, how many years later? Well, what year did that come out? 2006? 2008? Right. My son is also here.

He's telling me. Oh, your son's there too. Yes, yes. The Wachowski brothers decide, or Wachowski brothers, how do they pronounce it? The Wachowskis. Wachowskis. how do they pronounce it? The Wachowskis. Wachowskis decide they're going to make a Speed Racer movie. Yep. And you score it.

They called me. I was like, are you kidding me? This is, you know, all these years I had wanted to make it. I remember even contacting the people who own the rights to it, which was Broadway Video. Remember there's this place. Is that Lorne Michaels' company, Broadway Video? Was it? Maybe.

Maybe. I don't know. And I could not get the rights to it. I was nobody. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, and here I am writing letters to all these people. I want the rights to this. Maybe I could have made it on Super 8 film.

I had nothing else. But, yeah, that's actually one of the most fun things I ever got to do was write the score for that movie. The Wachowskis are some of the nicest and smartest people you will ever meet in your life. Did you say when you got the call, you guys, I really – Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I spent the last 15 years dreaming of a Speed Racer movie. Well, they quickly learned what a nut I was about Speed Racer. You know, I look at some of those

episodes to this day and I could look at it and say, if you filmed that episode using this animated episode as a storyboard, it would be brilliant. They were so well laid out and the stories were so economically told and they were great. I just loved it it i grew up with it and loved it so much so us too yeah yep us too you know a guy you gotta meet you know um kirk hammett from metallica no i don't he was on the show with us yeah total total monster he is a monster kid. He used to build Aurora models and then set them on fire. Oh, yeah. And I know you did the same. Absolutely.

All the time. All the time. Destroy stuff after you built it. When someone first suggested him, I was thinking, I don't give a fuck about Metallica. And then he said, he's a big monster fan. And then you're like, he's in. Yeah, exactly. We had him here almost as long as you.

We had him here 90 minutes remote from Hawaii. We talked about Metallica for about four minutes. The entire episode was about Universal Horror Classics and the Monster Times. And what was it? Forrest Ackerman's Famous Monsters of Filmland. Yes, I actually went to his house. I visited that house.

You went to the Ackerman mansion? I did. Yes, I did. It was amazing. Great memory of going through it. I was just talking with a friend about that. It was really amazing. We were just wondering. I wonder where all that stuff ended up. We were wondering about it too. He sold some of it. Some sold. I think a lot of stuff got up, you know. We were wondering about it too. He sold some of it. Some sold.

I think a lot of stuff got stolen from his collection. Oh, probably. The Basil Gagos paintings or Gogos paintings, a lot of them, because Kirk has a lot of disposable income, obviously. He bought them. He bought a lot of the stuff from Forrest. You could probably, I don't know if you're a collector of that stuff. I'll go check on, go

knock on his door. Or may I just steal them? We'll hook you up. I just got a thing. Who is it? I forget. Who composed the Get Smart thing? Oh, that was hold on, our researcher

here is quickly. I want to say not Vic Mizzy. Yeah, it's a great one. John Burlingame. Well, I should know this off the top of my head. I know, I should too. I'm embarrassed. Do you love the Munsters theme too?

Oh, yeah. Was that Vic Mizzy? No, Vic Mizzy did The Addams Family. Wait? No, Vic Mizzy did The Addams Family. Wait. Oh, Vic Mizzy did The Addams Family. I met him. You know that? I met him, too. He was a friar.

Yeah, I met him not long before he passed away. Yeah, great guy. Let's see. Irving Sathmary. Yeah, Sathmary. Yeah, that is Bill Dana's brother. That is great. Bill Dana's a comedian.

That's his real name. Yes. And then what's his name? Mel Brooks directed that, didn't he? He created it. Him and Buck Henry. He created it. Him and Buck Henry did that.

Did he direct it? I wonder who directed the pilot. That's some great music. Oh, and it's some great... That's some great television, just overall. That's amazing television. Did Hoyt Curtin do the Jetsons theme, too? Because that's a great one. Yes, and it's some great television just overall. That's amazing television. Did Hoyt Curtin do the Jetsons theme too? Because that's a great one.

Yes, I believe he did actually. Yep. Yeah, Hoyt did. Hoyt was a big Hanna-Barbera guy. Right. He did a lot of stuff for them. That's another story you'll have to tell us next time. That's the other thing we've got to tell too.

We've also got to talk about Scott Bradley, the unsung hero of animation music who did all the Tom and Jerry's. The unsung hero of animation music who did all the Tom and Jerry's. You know, Carl Stalin gets all the attention. And I love Carl, but Scott Bradley was also really amazing. And we have to talk about Joe Barbera because you worked on the last. I did. I worked on the last thing that he worked on. Yeah, which was amazing.

Well, you've got another reason to come back and talk to us again. Anytime. I'm happy to do this. This is what I do anyway when I just sit around with my friends. We're honored. Why not? Will you send me the script that I gave you in 1988? I gotta get back into the shed and find it. So yes, I'll do my best.

And say hi to your folks for me. Absolutely. I will. And one more question. Yes. Counselor, let the guy go. He's got children. Do you agree with Quincy Jones that Marlon Brando fucked Richard Pryor in the ass? Oh, stop now. Well, Quincy Jones has met a lot of people in his time.

I would imagine if he's saying it, I don't know. The question is, who did that to Quincy Jones that he's so upset that he's going around telling everyone else? Exactly. Gilbert's dined out on that story for the last six weeks. So quickly plugs, your website, michaeljacino.com. Yes. Incredibles 2 opens tomorrow as we are recording this. And then Jurassic

World is next week, I think. Talking about monsters. There you go. And if you're into dinosaurs that eat people, you'll love Jurassic World. What else is coming down the line? I'm going to be doing a film with an old friend of mine,

Drew Goddard, who wrote The Martian and wrote and directed Cabin in the Woods. It's called Bad Times at the El Royale. And it has Jeff Bridges, Jon Hamm. It has a lot of great actors in it. So I'm going to be doing that next. Heist movie? Yeah. It's kind of a noir-ish sort of.

Check out the trailer. Bad Times at the El Royale. It really looks cool. You'll love it. You'll dig it. Frank, did he send us something else to go out on? You can go out on whatever you want. We're going to go out on...

You had the old Incredibles things lined up. Might as well. Go there. We're going to do that. And next time we'll talk about all that stuff. Excellent. Come to New York and we'll do it in person. Yeah, that would be fun. I would love to. Next time I'll force myself upon you. And then Quincy Jones will go telling stories about it. Mike, this was a kick.

Thanks for having me. It was really great. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and reading a phonetically spelled out... I spelled it out for him phonetically. I didn't want to happen when you got your Oscar. Michael Giacchino.

Beautiful. Not Giacchino, as they said at the Academy Awards. Well, it's funny. It could go either way. If you ask my grandfather, it was Giacchino. Oh, really? If you ask my brother John, it goes by Giacchino. I heard.

There's a rift in the family. I heard Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor could go either way. Hey, give our love to Patton. We'll do it. We'll give your love to Richard Kind, who's a big fan who just wrote me

an email about you. Let's bring him in next time, too. Let's do one. We'll do a Pixar episode. I would love it. That would be great. Let's do it.

Absolutely. We'll do it next time. Thanks, buddy. All right. We'll talk to you episode. I would love it. That would be great. Let's do it. Absolutely. We'll do it next time. Thanks, buddy. All right. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks again. We'll see you next time. Padden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis,

and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. Thank you. Bye.