Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 214. Tim Matheson

Episode Date: July 2, 2018

Gilbert and Frank celebrate the 40th anniversary of "Animal House" with actor Tim Matheson, who recalls his original audition for the role of Eric "Otter" Stratton, his onscreen chemistry with co-star Peter Riegert and his working relationship (and friendship) with the late, great John Belushi. Also, Tim takes a lesson from Henry Fonda, takes a call from Steven Spielberg, shares a bed with Mel Brooks and shares the screen with TimConway and Don Knotts. PLUS: "Johnny Quest"! Sam Kinison! In praise of Jack Warden! Dean Wormer meets Iron Man! And Tim tries (in vain) to save the National Lampoon! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's right. It's just Sid Croft. This is Marty Croft. And this is Sid Croft. That's right. It's just Sid Croft. This is Marty Croft. And this is Sid Croft. And we're so happy that we've done your show. Thanks, Gilbert Gottfried, for everything. Gilbert, you're the best. Oh, thank you, Sid.

Thank you, gentlemen. We'll see you in New York. See you next week. I sure hope so. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is a popular, versatile, and very busy actor and director who started his career as a child star in the early 1960s and never looked back,

with dozens of film and television credits to his name. You've seen him in popular TV shows like Bonanza, My Three Sons, The Virginian, Night Gallery, Kung Fu, Room 222, The Quest, Entourage, Madam Secretary, and The West Wing, and heard him as a voice actor in two iconic Hanna-Barbera series, Space Ghost and Johnny Quest. He's also directed episodes of dozens of notable series, including Heart of Dixie, Criminal Minds, Suits, Psych, Person of Interest, and Burn Notice, among others. He's also done outstanding work as an actor on the big screen in memorable movies such as American style. Yours, mine, and ours. Magnum Force. 1941. A Little Sex.

To be or not to be. Fletch. Van Wilder. Black Sheep. A very Brady sequel. And, of course, has Rush Chairman and future gynecologist. What? Gynecologist. Gynecologist.

And of course, as Rush Chairman and future gynecologist, National Lampoon's Animal House. In a long and productive career, he's worked with Bob Hope, Henry Fonda, Lucille Bull, Jackie Gleason, Steven Spielberg, Mel Brooks, Clint Eastwood, Don Notch, and Tim Conway, and former podcast guests Chevy Chase and Dick Van Dyke. Hell, he even worked with Mel Blank, Joe Flynn, and Professor Erwin Corey. It's our pleasure to welcome to the show one of our favorite performers and a man who valiantly

tried to rescue the National Lampoon. He's damn glad to meet you, Tim Matheson. Hi, Gilbert. Hi, Frank. How are you guys? Tim! Hey, hello. Hello. You'd think he'd know the word gynecologist. Of all the words for you not to know. That's for sure. He can do it, he just can't say it. I don't know.

Yeah, that's one of those words that's in about 50 of the jokes I tell on stage. And yet, I fuck it up. Now, Tim, we first met because I used to write for Lampoon. And we first met over there. That's what it was. I was breaking my mind trying to figure out what it was. And we wanted you guys to come out to Hollywood. We wanted to revitalize the Lampoon, put a bunch of money into it,

get into TV and movies again because it had fallen on harder times. And, ah, God, those were the golden years when you were there. Man, that's great. Yeah, that was fun. That's where I became friends with Drew. That's right. Drew Dotsfried. You did photo funnies.

You did those old Fumetti things that they used to do, that Doug Kenny used to do. At first, I would do articles. And then I realized the photo funnies is much less work, and you get photographed with naked girls. Yeah, there's boobs. You had to have boobs in it. It was weird they got the boobs in the National Lampoon. Right, right, right. Yeah, it was it. It was separating it from med.

Oh, my God, yeah. And it broke my heart that we couldn't turn it around, that we weren't able to do it. It was back in that time in the 80s when everybody was racing, you know, through Mike Milken. They were putting together, you know, $100 million here and $50 million there, and all we needed was $5 million and couldn't get it. Wow. You know, and couldn't.

And unfortunately, we had to merge with a company that really didn't have its best interests at heart, and otherwise they were going to go broke anyway. Was that J2 Communications? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's they were going to go broke anyway. Was that J2 Communications? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's another scary story. Nobody got paid. I remember working there, freelancing there, and one day there was a padlock on the door. Oh, yeah.

And they were down on Spring Street. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a bad guy. Yeah. The guy behind Dorf. I just realized something. That was it.

The guy behind the Dorf was his. He's one of those guys that if it was only his ideas were any good, you know, and he just, he really, he just was, yeah, he was a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah, because before then there was the Simmons brothers. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

And then so you bought the company or what? We did. We did a takeover. We bought the stock. We paid Maddie off, and we trimmed back all the fat. There were a lot of Simmons working in the Lampoon. And we wanted to – the Lampoon was – the magazine was losing money every month. And so we wanted to shrink that deficit every month and then restaff it and get, you know, like yourself, young, talented, funny people who know how to do that and be funny and get it back to its prime where it was doing the radio show, where it was doing Lemmings, where it was doing, you know, a Broadway show, off-Broadway shows, where it was, you know, where we would get into podcasts, you know, and go back off-broadway shows where it was you know where we would get into podcast you know and go back in and and get into movie deals but basically what had happened was they

had just been licensing the name for the yeah sure right for whatever money came in and and i remember for a while there it seemed like there were about a thousand different times I'd be watching TV at three in the morning. And you'd see some movie and you'd go, what the fuck is this? And it would always be National Lampoon Presents. Loaded weapon. Yes, yes. Yeah, there was a serum. And that was one of the more.

That was one of the better ones. Yeah, that was well known. There were so many I forgot. Yeah, it's interesting, Tim. I heard you say that you wound up spending a lot of time with people that you – that's the reason you became an actor was to avoid people like that. Yes. I mean, there was one point where we would go pitch all the big firms that would pay for, you know, like Smith Barney and, you know,

all the big firms that were investing like that. And then we went from one of those meetings right into a mob meeting with a bunch of, they didn't say they were mobsters, but it was a bunch of guys and literally wanted us to sign a contract before we walked out of the room. Wow. And they said, yeah, yeah, we'll do this deal. Well, it's a great deal. We're going to do this deal.

And it was like, yeah, but we've got to talk to the board of directors. We can't just sign. Yeah, you can sign. Just sign it now. No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't know if we're going to get out of there. But it was like the lampoon was in desperate straits at that time. And we were dealing with Michael Milken, and he almost did the deal until the federal prosecutors got a hold of him.

You're to be admired for trying to return it to its glory days. Those were great days. I loved it. I loved it. And, Gil, you should talk about what your experience was like there because it was just – that was what Doug Kenney did and you guys were doing. That was the fun thing. Yeah. Yeah, Henry Beard and dog and everybody and i

remember once i finally got into the scam of writing the photo funnies rather than actually putting some thought into an article i i found myself writing the same photo funny like 10 times in a row with a slight variation bigger tits yeah exactly yeah in one they were uh women from outer space then then women from another galaxy there was such great material you know john hughes used to write for him of Of course. Everybody. Brian McConnachie and McKinney. Yeah. Chris Miller. Yeah, and Chris. And God, it was legion.

Sean Kelly, Henry Beard. Sean Kelly and Henry. Another great guy. But then when we got there, we found out that what had happened to them, they couldn't afford those guys anymore, so they would license them to write a story, but they'd only license it for one episode. They didn't own anything anymore. So once you got into the library, there was no library except for the old Doug Kinney era.

They didn't own anything. So all this stuff, because like Uncle Buck was a story that had been written by John Hughes for The Lampoon. But you know what? That's the kind of stuff we wanted to make movies out of and work with guys like Hughes. Right, right, right. Let's go way, way back, because before we turned the mics on, we were talking about some of the wonderful character actors you worked with back in the day. It's fair to say you had an entire Western period of your career. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, I was a kid actor, not a kid star. Fortunately, I think I was like the third kid through the door.

You know, it was like here would come the lead guy and then his pal and then me. I had a couple of lines going, yeah, let's do that. And so, you know, I got my training that way and I worked. And then I started doing voice work. And as Gilbert knows, I mean, that's a period where I really learned about the craft of acting. Because I got to tell you, those are some of the best actors I've ever worked with. Mel Blanc was exceptional. He was one of the most amazing.

He could do a scene by himself with two characters. Amazing. It's like, you've seen it, Gilbert. I mean, you do that. It's like, those are the most amazing people. Yeah, Mel Blanc, to me, was just, he would have been the ideal guest on this show. Like an otherworldly talent. Yeah.

Yeah. And Messick, too. Don Messick. Oh, and Messick. Don Messick. Yeah. I mean, who lived up in Santa Barbara and was, you know, he'd do the dog. He would do the characters.

He'd just do anything and everything. And he would do the dog differently than any other dog he'd done and give it a personality. And if you're out there and you're shameful enough not to know Mel Blanc, he was the voice of every Warner Brothers cartoon. Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Porky Pig, Yosemite Sam. Barney Rubble. Barney Rubble and a million other things. A million other characters. Yeah.

Well, when I was doing Johnny Quest, which was the first voiceover stuff I did, I was 15 and 16. I was in high school, so I still had to go to school on the set. So when I would go do an episode of Johnny Quest, I had to go three hours early or four hours early, do my schoolwork for three hours, have an hour lunch, and then go and record. So I'm hanging out at Handbar Barrel while I'm doing my schoolwork, which I could do in probably 20 minutes. How cool. And I'd just, I'd wander around and talk to the animators and see all this, you know, the sales they were doing because they did it right there. And I could go watch, you know, Alan Reed and June Foray

and all these. Janet Waldo. Janet Waldo. All these incredible classic artists that did this voice work. And I mean, it was exceptional. It was just exceptional you call them the pros from Dover I saw in an interview they really were they could do anything and and what were they like in person these people they were you know they were they were lovely and very

nice and I didn't really and rich because what would happen was they would do this they do an episode of the Flintstones and then they get in their car and they'd go do five more, you know, different recording sessions during the day. And I saw, I remember a guy named Marvin Miller who did the Millionaire. The Millionaire. Right? Yeah, sure. He had a huge voiceover. He came in and one of the most expensive cars I ever saw in my life was the Gullwing Mercedes.

It was like brand new and I was like oh my god like this this guy's just he they print the money you know and Mel Blank certainly was yeah like I remember like see people don't realize you know you'll hear Michael Douglas and people like that doing voiceovers but these people who you don't know their names, but they do the voice of everything, and I would see them. They would come in, you know, do the voice and run. Their car would be running downstairs. A guy like Frank Welker.

Yes, yes. And it would be like they do like 20 jobs in a day. Yeah, that's Billy West money. They do it from their home now, right? They do it like an ISDN line, and they build a booth in their home, and they just sit there and record all day. Yeah, they sit in their underwear with a cup of coffee and don't even have to leave the house.

Yeah, yeah. You auditioned at the old building? a cup of coffee, and don't even have to leave the house. Yeah. You auditioned at the old building? It was the old Barbera building on Ventura? Yes. Yes, I did. For Joe and Bill, you auditioned for them personally? Yeah. And Joe was the guy who ran the show.

He supervised it. He directed the episodes. And Bill was like the backstage guy. He ran the office. He ran, I guess, the office he ran i guess the distribution he did all the business stuff and joe was the guy who interacted with the actors was a you know was a glib wonderful you know and he gave me my opportunity to start getting into the other side of things he let me i said i'm gonna write an episode for you he said yeah bring

it in pitch me a bunch of ideas all if we like any idea, I'll let you write one. That's great. And I think I wrote two or three episodes. And he couldn't have been more gracious and couldn't have been more helpful. Now, I heard Hannah and Barbara hated each other. I think toward the end. That I don't know. That was Evan Costello. I don't know.

I never saw any animosity between them. But I never saw, you know, Bill Hanna was never around. It was always Joe. Yeah. And I mean, Bill would be there occasionally, but was Doug Wildey, Doug Wildey president,

any of those, those Johnny quest sessions at the beginning, Doug was there and he was like, cause he was this, you know, incredible illustrator. He was more in the Marvel mold, you know,

the real realistic representation. But I think after a couple of episodes, they decided the network wanted to do what it was going to do, and so Doug sort of took a backseat, I guess. Do you get a kick watching those today? People don't know, it's only one season of Johnny Quest.

And, yes, exactly right. It was the first non-comedic half-hour cartoon show ever. 26 episodes. You know, that I, I don't, I can't think of, probably now they have some, but I mean, it's like then,

it was amazing. Do you watch them still? Do you ever, do you ever catch them and hear that great theme song, that Hoyt Curtin theme song and just get flashbacks? I have, you know,

I've seen clips of it here and there i haven't really sat down and watched one in a while and then when they rebooted it for for um i guess it's a tnt or tbs or something i i actually ran across a couple of pictures i had the other day of me joe barbera and the kid the new kid that they got to do johnny I played some other voice in it. I did a voice. So cool. And I myself did three movies with Jack Warden. I never did a scene with him. I think Tim did some scenes with him. Yeah. I did.

So how was it like to work with him? Well, he was a real treat. And, you know, the lowest key, kind of this layback, kickback guy. But it was at that point in my life where sometimes I'd get on in a part. I remember I worked with him in a show called Jigsaw John. I think it was his show. Oh, yeah, that's right. A very forgettable episodic series that he did.

And I remember coming in to do a scene or a test scene or something to get onto that show. And Jack directed me. I mean, he just said, hey, why don't you try this? Why don't you, you know. But it was just not telling me what to do. But it was just, you know, just try this. And then there was one transition I had a hard time making. And he said, you know, don't work it so much.

He says, you've had this idea for a long time, and then it just comes out easier. And I go, oh, yeah, right. So Jack Wooden could have been a director. Oh, God. Well, he was, yes. I mean, he was so subtle and so wonderful and naturalistic and real. But the chance to do this movie called Dreamer with him and Susan Blakely, it was...

And in cinema, I think he's the only man to ever, on camera, have bowled himself to death. His character had a heart attack. I watched it yesterday. There's that distinction that Jack actually... That and his Oscar, so I mean, you know.

I remember hearing a story about Jack Warden where he was doing construction work during the day when he was a struggling actor. And he showed up at an audition for King Lear. And, you know, smelly, covered in soot. and, you know, smelly, covered in soot. And I think Jack Hausman, John Hausman, was the guy in charge. And he said, and just what do you see playing in this production? What do you see yourself playing in this production? And Jack Warden said, well, hell, who's playing Lear?

What a body of work when you go and you look at all of that stuff from 12 Angry Men to all the way to The Verdict and Heaven Can Wait. He worked a bunch of times with Warren Beatty. Yeah, he's in all kinds of stuff. Yeah, he turns up in Bullworth, I think. Oh, that's right. Being there. Yeah. Yeah, he was wonderful.

But, you know, there's almost, it's a forgotten sort of role that there was a huge number of those character actors, stars like Jack Ward and Sidney Greenstreet, Melvin Douglas. Oh, yeah. Those guys. That's a good example. Ed Begley, senior. They were these guys that played those huge roles. Lee J. Cobb.

And Lee J. Cobb, certainly. And, you know, there's a few of those around now, but it's not quite the same thing. Oh, Nehemiah Persoff was one. Yes. Yeah. Martin Balsam. And, you know, there was a whole slew of New York actors there.

And they were those kind of actors that we love here. The kind of actors that could, you didn't know their names for the most part but they could do everything charles durning is another good example another guy you worked with charlie durning yeah he was he was he was great and and and a fantastic dancer absolutely right you know he could he could do a song and dance too. Yeah, I heard he was a dance instructor for a while.

Is that right? Yeah. We love character actors on this show. We've had Joe Pantoliano. We've had Bruce Stern. We've had a lot of those guys. Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter were here. We worship that craft. And the guy... Oh, fuck, the guy from all of the Corman movies.

Oh, we had Dick Miller here. Yeah. Ah, yes, yes. Well, you know, there was a story. I did this movie, To Be or Not to Be, that Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft, Charlie Durning, and Jose Ferrer were in, and a slew of other people, wonderful people. And Mel was always, he wasn't directing it. There was another guy who was directing it,

which was crazy, because Mel was directing it. Yeah, I'm sure. And one day, Anne Bancroft and Charlie Durning were doing a scene, and Mel hadn't been around, and they were rehearsing the scene, and Mel stopped and watched the scene. He goes, hey, let me tell you what to do. And they were in the middle of rehearsing with the director, and Anne Bancroft said, hold on, everyone, hold on. What have we got here?

We have Mel Brooks trying to direct oscar winner charles durning and oscar winner and bancroft and mel said all right all right do it the way you want to do that's great but she was with that humor and that finesse was one of the few people could handle mel yeah yeah that you're good in that movie you're very funny in that movie oh thank you thank you it was fun it was a treat and what was Mel like to deal with

when you were the most exuberant excitable I mean and it was back when before this was like the time of the transition

to to video assist where they would you know and it was a big deal we had a video assist we had a, you know, and it was a big deal. We had a video assist. We had a video camera on the camera. System came through, and you could record the scene.

Well, it would take forever to shoot anything because Mel would shoot a take, and then he'd look at it, and he'd say, let's do another one. He'd change a little bit and change a little bit, and literally it would be like take 14. You're exhausted with this scene. And finally go that's it then he'd look at it and he'd go all right print one two and 14 but we won't use it you know so basically he just he just wanted to prove he was right about one and take one and two i mean he was but but he was great he was i i actually

got to sleep with him in a scene i i slept with mel brooks and and video assist uh another thing that that was what jerry lewis invented that's right and said he wanted to be known for yeah remembered for is that right supposedly yeah among other. He was funnier than Video Assist, I think, right? I think it's interesting, Tim, that you always knew that you wanted to be an actor from a very early age. You're one of those people, you've said, who was lucky enough to know. Yes, yeah. I mean, there was no doubt. I mean, it was, you know, I don't even, I remember the first time I was on, you know, like a play at school or something,

like in the third grade or fourth grade. And I remember the first laugh I got. I mean, Gil, I bet you do too. I mean, it just – and something happens. You go, I like that. I like that. I can do that. Right?

What was the laugh? It was a play about Sacagawea, you know? And if you can get a laugh in a play about Sacagawea, you got a career in this business, let me tell you. Didn't you have an empty TV console in your house and you used to crawl inside of it? Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, and that was, gosh, it was back in the day of,

oh my God, in the early 50s, we had these huge consoles with this little bitty screen. And then when the TV broke down, they'd haul the whole guts out of it and take it away for a week or so and work on it. And so I would get inside this huge console because they took the back off so I could sneak in and get in there and stick my head in the screen and then play what then was probably Stan Freeberg's Beanie and Cecil or some silly stuff, you know, and yeah, I just, I loved, I loved, and I was not an outgoing guy. You know,

there's these kind of actors that are, you know, they do voices they do like like gill they they you know you do you you can and i'm not a great mimic i can't do like you know uh voice over you know like the people that we know and so i but i just like performing i just made me a shy kid it gave me freedom to be whatever i wanted to be so did you you say to your parents, like, I want to be an actor, or how did it come about? You know, I did. And my mom was like, okay, whatever you want. You want to play baseball? We'll get you in the Little League.

Because my mother was a single parent, and she worked two to to keep us afloat um and so i it worked out that you know i could either take a bus or get a ride she'd get off work and come and take me to my auditions which had to be after four o'clock because you were in school until three and then usually the auditions were between four and six. So it worked out. And then when I worked, I get a job a day here, a day there acting. She would drop me off at the studio, find another parent that was working on the set and say, would you watch my kid and tell the teacher that you're responsible for him? And then she'd go off to work. And then when she got done with work at the end of the day, she'd come pick me up. What a cool mom.

She was great. To encourage and also facilitate. Yeah, she was a big champion. Literally, every ad, every TV guide that had my name in it, she lacquered and put on a plaque. Fantastic. And it was like, you know, it was like just the L.A. Times, the section that shows what's going to be on Channel 5 at 6 o'clock.

She plaqued it, you know, and it was like, oh, my God. I saw an interview with you and you said you were doing Leave It to Beaver and you were actually starstruck by Jerry Mathers. Oh. He was the first young star I think I ever met and I just when I was on that show I thought wow now I've arrived this was like a show that had been on

as long as I could remember and he was a nice kid Jerry Mathers but you're a kid and you're working with these legends I mean Fred McMurray and Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda and Jackie Gleason and you know you're not out of your teens. Yeah, I was lucky to have the opportunity to work with vaudevillians, you know, like Debbie Reynolds. And I don't know about Van Dyke, but Jackie Gleason.

Burt Lahr. Yes. Oh, my God. I did a pilot with Burt Lahr. Yes, you did. And so, and there was something, and Lucy and, you know, and Henry, I did a pilot with Burt Lahr. Yes, you did. And there was something. And Lucy and Henry, I don't think was in vaudeville, but Bob Hope. And they took care of the people that they had worked with in vaudeville

or back in the early days of movies that had fallen on harder times. And so Bob Hope would have them around his stand-ins or they'd get a one-day here line there and and uh but they were tough you know Lucy was was tough uh she whether you were three or 83 you know your lines you show up and you do your job and there's no goofing around no bs and and uh you know she taught me how to prepare henry the same way henry was but henry was really cool and relaxed uh lucy lucy was you know she was worrying about the budget so you know she was she was more more um concerned about everything and henry was like okay lucy it's gonna be fine come on now Lucy

it'll be alright we'll do it she was a taskmaster huh she was she definitely was but you know there was times

I remember she invited me into her trailer and sat and talked to me about what I wanted to do and how you know what it took

to be a star you want to be a star you got to act like a star and whatever that meant I don't know. But she was, you know, she could sort of let down her guard and be, you know, as personal as she could. But she was, you know, she was the first female executive in Hollywood. She owned a huge studio, Desilu, with Desi, and she ran it. She ran her other show. They

owned Desilu Gower, Coenga, and Culver City Studio. They had huge studios that they ultimately sold. And when we started Yours, Mine, and Ours, I think she just closed the deal, sold out Desilu for like, I don't know, 20-some-odd million dollars, which was probably like a billion dollars today. Hello, this is Desilu, and we will return to

Gilbert Scott's Amazing Collateral Podcast right after this. Because I have the keys. Hi, I'm Dee Wallace, and you're listening to Gilbert Godfrey's Amazingly Colossal Podcast. Baby! Close. Did I do it right? right no it's not amazingly

it's amazing just amazing colossal okay I like that shut up shut up hi I'm Dee Wallace and you're listening

to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast baby I can't work with you again. Perfect. And I like sex. Live from Nutmeg Post, we now return to Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

I got to bring up some of these other actors, too, and now you got me thinking how many of them were in Vaudeville. I mean, Joe Flynn, we mentioned. Van Johnson is in yours, mine, and ours, and I think he's in Divorce American style. Yes, he is, yeah. Lee Grant, who we had on this show, who's wonderful. I just met her. She's a doll. Oh, you just met her at Chiller. Yes, he is, yeah. Lee Grant, who we had on this show, who's wonderful. I just met her. She's a doll. Oh, you just met her at Chiller.

Yes, that's right. Yes. Isn't that cool? And she's in love with me. She loves Gilbert. What's not to love? Tom Bosley, Jason Robards,

Dick Van Dyke is obviously in Divorce American style. Shelly Berman. I mean, you're working with all of these people. You're not out of your- Leslie Nielsen. Leslie Nielsen, you did Bracken's World. Yeah. And I did also, he was in How to Commit Marriage,

the Hope movie. That's right. And he was also in the first episode I did of The Virginian. That's right. And a great role model. You know, and he was the kind of guy who would sit there and say, don't worry so much about acting.

Read the paper in the morning. When you get on the set, read the paper. Find out what's going on in the world. You know, have other interests. Don't just get all sucked up in, you know, acting. Oh, interesting. Yeah, he was... He had perspective.

That and he had a little uh uh a fart sound oh yeah he was obsessed yes you know you you worked with him didn't you i i i remember i once met him at some event and of course he had that fart maker with him. And I told him, I said, oh, I had one of those that didn't work well. And he told me, he said, okay, well, what type do you have? Is it the one with the black rubber and the hard red metal? And I said, yeah, I think that's it. And he goes, oh, that's useless. Throw it away.

What you want to get is the tan. He knew exactly what fart maker to get. That's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. And he was obsessed. You couldn't carry on with you. You'd be in a room and you'd hear this. And, you know, I was in on the joke,

but he would do it when people who weren't in on the joke were standing around and it was just like. Tim, do you look back at these people sometimes and say, wow, I mean, at 13 or 14, I really didn't quite have the perspective to know that this is Henry Fonda, this is Lucille Ball. This is, you know, Jason Robards. You work with Richard Widmark and Burl Ives and Brian Keith and just all of these people. I kind of knew.

You kind of knew even then. On a good day. I mean, it was like some of them I knew. And I knew enough to pay attention. I remember Henry, I mean, especially like with Henry, there was a scene, because I was just beginning to study acting and it was a scene the first day of Yours, Mine, and Ours. And Henry's supposed to get up, he's at his house with all his kids

and he gets up and he's leaving the house. He goes to the front door and he stops at the front door and he gets up and he's leaving the house he goes to the front door and he stops at the front door and he turns around and he has this huge speech i don't know half three quarters of a page and i was looking at the script and i was thinking as an actor how would i do this i wouldn't know i don't know how you what's he gonna say because lucy had written her part and they had written her part for her and this really hadn't been tailored for henry i don't think at that point, you know. Interesting.

Henry gets up, we go to roll the film, and then we get, you know, first take, and Henry stands up, does the scene, walks up to the door, turns around, and he's so relaxed and so natural, and he's Henry Fonda. And he just had all those inflections and all those beats, and he was just so rich and so full, And I just looked at him. I said, God, that's a movie star. And I believed every word he said, and I just realized. I mean, you just, by osmosis, you get, wow, I want to do that. That's what it is.

I don't know how he does it, but that's what you've got to get to to be who Henry Fondé is. So it's an example that you've got to really through your studies, got to figure out, Oh, Oh, I know how to get there. You know, you just got to make it real for yourself.

And it was, but it was a real sort of, it was a schooling, you know, by just to work with those people, like with Debbie and Dick Van Dyke. Jason Robards. And Robards.

Yeah. You had like the greatest teachers in the world. Yes. Through your career. Yeah. You had like the greatest teachers in the world. Yes. Yeah, I mean, because and I was a kid, so it's like it was sort of that career that not a lot of people get. You know, usually

you're starting when you're 20s, you're late teens or something, but here I was at a very youthful age, you know. My favorite story was when I was doing this horrible movie with Bob Hope and Jackie Gleason. Only terrible script, but it was fun to do. But I was Jackie's son, and I'm marrying this hippie girl, and we're in a band. So they had a real band playing the band, and they had this young actress who'd never acted before and so when we rehearsed the scene it was like you didn't know what they were going to do and they weren't very good at it and Jackie looked at me one day and sort of just whispered

he says kid you and I are the only ones here and know what we're doing let's just get this show on the road and I was like yeah Jackie, Jackie, you got it. I've never seen How to Commit Marriage. Is that the one where Bob Hope plays golf with a chimp? Yes, yes. And it was the first inkling that this is going to be a stinker. I get the pink pages, you know, and it was like, that was not a bad movie before that.

And I get the pages and they cut all this crap out and then they put in this golf game with a chimpanzee. And I said, oh, God, we're in trouble. Once they throw in a chimp, it means there's no more ideas left. That's the one Professor Erwin Corey turns up in. That's right. How to commit

marriage. That's right. And Tina Louise. And Tina Louise and Jane Wyman. And Jane Wyman, that's right. Yes, the former wife of President Reagan. Absolutely. There was one, this is out of school, but so one day there's Gleason and Hopra sitting at a table and they're running all these pretty girls by,

dancers and all these young ladies are coming in and it's like an audition. And I was like, wow, what part are they auditioning? There's no parts for any young ladies like that. Whatever. Maybe they've written a scene or something. And I think they were auditioning for, you know, after this audition thing went over, a couple of the girls were standing by there, and they went, okay, that's lunch.

And we all went to lunch. And I think that it was a casting session for some extracurricular activity that took place during lunch. For Hope or Gleason? I think both. Unreal. See, back then, there was no such a thing as sexual harassment. Are you sure about that? It existed, but there wasn't a word

for it. And it was just like business as usual. I mean, it was a bit shameful, but it was like, it was, and it took me like probably, I didn't realize it until probably four or five days later and went, oh, that's what that was.

I was real quick. And there was another actor you worked with who was in To Kill a Mockingbird and a Pawnbroker, Brock Peters. Oh, yeah. Oh, God, yes. Was that Night Gallery? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I was under contract to Universal. I was one of the last sort of contract actors back in the day. And it was like 1966 or 7, I was in the Virginian. Mm-hmm. And they put me under what they called long-term contract. And so I did the Virginian for a year. Then it changed to the Men from Shiloh, and my character went away. But they had written a pilot for me to star in,

and so it was a two-hour movie, and then I got another whole year under contract. And so I did every show at Universal. And I'd have to still audition, but because they were paying me, I'd go in and audition. By God, I got everyone I auditioned for. It was amazing.

Imagine that. I kept thinking, wow, I'm really good, aren't I? And one of those was Night Gallery. And it was a treat because I had, at an early age, one of the earliest jobs I did I was a I did a like a small little part I think I got cut from a night from a Twilight Zone episode oh really yeah one about a character that had married a younger woman I think Ruta Lee played that the younger wife and he was trying to to you keep up with her, and she was worried he was too old,

and he felt bad about it. So his brother was a scientist and had this potion that he could drink and make him younger. Well, he drank so much of it that in one scene you see him, you know, like, ah, he's going through the throes of some horrible thing. And then he rushes out of the room. And in the next room, he's like 20 years old running there. And then he falls down.

And when he gets up, he's 12 years old. And he runs into the other room and he falls on the bed. And then he's a baby laying there on the bed. I was the 12-year-old. But I think they trimmed it. I don't think they needed that piece. But, you know, I got to meet Rod Serling. Wow.

So Night Gallery was the chance I got to really spend some time with him as sort of like an adult actor. And I could talk to him a bit. Patrick McNee is in that Night Gallery episode too from The Adventures. I remember that one. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. I remember Patrick McNee one time went on TV and presented that episode years later. Did he?

And he said, had they filmed it now, think of the money they would have saved on makeup for the old man. Night Gallery is one of those shows that you just always wanted to be better. You wanted it to be as good as The Twilight Zone, and it just didn't quite live up. Well, because Rod didn't write it. He didn't write it, yeah. Nah, he was just taking a check. Right, right, right. Yeah, I heard it was just, let's slap Rod Serling's name on it, and that's it.

There were some good ones. Yeah. There were some real moments. I'm just looking at the TV you did then Tim the bold ones Ironside you did the Smith family again with your pal Henry Fonda and Ronnie Howard and Ronnie Howard

you went back and did and worked with Lucy again on Here's Lucy yes Night Gallery Kung Fu Room 222 Bracken's World

I mean you're working like crazy I assume some of those are Universal shows that you were talking about many of them were but there's a lot of them were freelance. And Universal did that thing where I'd go out and audition for other shows and get them, like the Smith family or Bracken's World.

And then they would take the money and just keep paying me my check. So I think they came out ahead on the deal. Police Story, The Magician with Bill Bixby. That's right. Medical Center, Hawaii Five-0, Owen Marshall. We remember all of these shows. Yes, yes, yeah. And right around this time,

and I'm looking at some of these other actors you work with, these great names, Burl Ives, Keenan Wynn, my God, young Nick Nolte. Right around this time, you did Magnum Force? Yeah, yeah. I had been, my first vacation, went to to Europe sort of bumming around with a buddy of mine and and we started London went to Paris and then got to Rome and um and I got a call that I and a script because there was the William Morris agency was my agency

at the time um gave me the script and said I you know, they need you back in L.A. to audition for this. So, oh, that's great. And so I got on a plane and I worked on this audition for the lead cop. And I was thinking, oh, I really want to be in this movie. And I get there and I go in for my audition, what I think is an audition, and the director says, how tall are you? And I said, I'm 6'2". And he says, okay, you got it.

And I said, well, what do you mean And he says, okay, you got it. Well, what do you mean you got it? He said, yeah, you're going to play this guy. And I said, well, can I read for that one? He said, nah, it's been cast for months. It was David Soule's part. David Soule, yeah. A bigger character part. And he said, I just want to make sure you're the right size.

And he said, now we're not going to start shooting for six weeks. And I said, I came all the way back from Rome I could have said it was like but I gotta say working with Clint was was just a trip because I didn't know if he was the real deal you know I just thought ah this guy's a tv actor became I you know I was full of myself as an actor and I thought you know god he I is he a as an actor, and I thought, you know, God, he, is he a really an actor, and I came up to him the first day of shooting, and I said, hi, Clint, how are you, I'm Tim, and listen, you want to rehearse, you want to work on the scene, you want to do anything, and he said, I'll be happy to do that with you, and he goes, no, no, I, you know,

not really, don't want to do that, I don't, there's something special about the first time you say the words, and I'd like to get that on film. Wow. Okay. And I just walked away and I thought, all right, he's not much of an actor. He doesn't know how to rehearse. But we rolled the camera. He listens better than almost any other actor I've ever worked with.

And then during the scene, it wasn't a big, long scene, but he changed something that affected one of my lines and I'm listening. And I changed my line to adjust to his line. And then it was just his banter back and forth between us. And it was, he was right that there was something magic and special about the very first

time you do it. And that's the way he still works. You know, I mean, and I walked away from that day and also that movie was just the utmost respect for him because he really directed it, I think. It was one of his early, you know, directing things, even though there was another director of record on it. Ted Post. Ted Post, right?

I don't even remember Ted being around. He was there, but I mean, you know. Kind of a Mel Brooks deal. There was something with Clint Eastwood, too. He played like a typical tough guy part, but there was always something in his inflections and in his eyes that you go, wait a minute, am I supposed to be taking this seriously? There was always like that part, like a slyness. Yes, and you liked him.

Because if he just played it that tough, you wouldn't like him. And yet at some point, you know, Harry Callahan, you liked the guy. Yeah. He cared for people. It's a pretty good movie. Yeah. It's a real John Milius wrote it. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. It was, it was one of the better ones. Yeah. And, and, and Clint couldn't have been nicer and sweeter. And, you know, you go home early with him. You never do too many takes. You don't do a lot of different shots. You just do the bare minimum that he knows we need to make this

picture. That's all you need. And then we go home. You're in the middle of your western period, too, at this point. This is interesting, too. You did a TV movie called Hitched with Sally Field. I love these actors. John Fiedler, Denver Pyle, and Slim Pickens.

Those are three names that we perk up at. Wow. I think Ed Begley was in at. Wow. Oh, no. And I think Ed Begley was in it. Ed Begley Jr. That's where I met Ed Begley Jr. in that movie. We had Ed here a couple of weeks ago. He's the best.

He's so funny. Yeah. And you did How the West Was Won, and then you did The Quest with your buddy Kurt Russell. Yeah. Another show I remember that took a beating from Charlie's Angels, as I recall. We were up against that show. We kept thinking, nobody's going to watch that.

Who would you rather watch? Do you want to see the Cowboys or do you want to see these girls? And I think maybe the girls. What the heck? And it's so funny. It's like you've been in millions of – you're already in millions of movies and tv shows and yet if you say to someone tim matheson i'll go oh the guy from animal house yeah fortunately we're not one of those shows which is great i mean because you know that came at a point in my life where i

after the westerns and i did that series with Kurt and then I was doing a, you know, and I was just being a journeyman actor working as much as I could because I was building a house. And I was sick of playing the parts that I was getting. They were just like boring, kind of like nice guy, dramatic parts on these episodic shows. nice guy, dramatic parts on these episodic shows. So I started, I joined a group out here called the Groundlings and started doing improv. And that was the thing that got me into Animal House

because they wouldn't let me audition because they'd seen all my TV stuff. And they said, no, no, he's a cowboy or a surfer. Right, sure. He's not for us. And I asked a favor of one of the executives uh to just just let me go in and fall on my face then i'll be then i can walk away from it but just let me get it let me just have a shot at it so they they let me come in with my long hair and

everything and and uh i i got to audition with peter riegert who played boone in the movie and um and it was a great audition. It was one of those that just took off. And we were improvising, and they were just in tears. And it worked out really well. Did Landis follow you out in the hallway? Do I have that story right? Yes.

Yeah, on my second audition, they called me back and had me come in. And it turned out just as well as the first one. And he said, would you wait out in the hall? John Lannis, he's so animated. He says, could you just stand out in the hall for a second? Wait in the hall. And you'd hear all this commotion going on inside and laughing and commotion and carrying on. And then he comes out and he goes, you are fantastic.

You're going to get this part. We're going to hire you. He said, but don't tell a soul that I said that. Don't tell a soul. You swear? And I said, yes, I swear. I ran out. I got a dime out.

I put in a phone. I called my agent. I got the fucking part. That's fantastic. But don't tell anyone. That's fantastic. And what was your experience like working with Belushi? And what was your experience like working with Belushi?

Well, John Belushi was just the most generous, warm-hearted, big-hearted, sweet guy that, you know, generous. And talented physical comedian and one of the most special people I'd ever met. And because, you know, there was all that sort of conflict between East Coast actors and West Coast actors. And, oh, the East Coast, we're more serious and we're more dedicated and we're here for the theater and the art. And you, you're some pretty people that out there just trying to make money on TV

and don't really know your craft. But Belushi wasn't buying any of that shit. He was a huge star on Saturday Night Live already, you know, and couldn't have been more gracious and more generous. And maybe it's the fact that I made him pay me back $100 I loaned him one day. He would always do this thing to you where you go, hey, give me $100. You got any money?

Give me $100. Give me $100. You got any money? Give me $100. Give me $100. And you'd never hear about it again. And nobody would ever ask him for it. But I was so cheap. I gave him $100. Is he going to pay me back? And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll pay you back.

And so days go by. Days go by. We're in rehearsal and stuff. And I said, John, where's my $100? Where's my $100? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get it back to you., and I said, John, where's my $100? Where's my $100? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get it back to you. And finally he said, John, I want the $100. And he said, alright, alright, alright. He probably looked at somebody else and said,

give me $100. Here, Tim, here's your money. So, I think that maybe was some reason that he just, I earned some respect from him. Interesting. Was Chevy supposed to play Otter? Oh yeah, it was written forvy um and d-day was written for uh for ackroyd wow and harold ramus i think wrote boone for himself and but landis wanted

just belushi he didn't want to do a lampoon radio show or he didn't want to do saturday night live where there's a bunch of comics running around. He wanted to surround John Belushi with real actors and keep him grounded and keep the whole movie grounded and not have it sort of wink and a nod, you know, which is what happened with Caddyshack. And not that it's – that's a brilliant movie. But Caddyshack, you know, it got away from the story. I think it was the Michael O'Keefe character was supposed to be a movie about this kid, Caddy, right? But it turned into a movie about Chevy and Bill Murray and Rodney. And it's as you should.

I mean, there's a book that just came out about it, I think, about the making of it and how they just went with it. I mean, and Harold was great as a director. He just said, I'm going with this. This is funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was Kenny? What was your experience with the stork, with the great Doug Kenny,

who co-founded the National Lampoon? He was the smartest, funniest man I think I've ever met. Really? More than Gilbert? Right on par, on par with Gilbert. I haven't spent that much time with Gilbert. But he was so subtle about it. You know, he wasn't – because I hung out with Chevy and Doug right around the time that Caddyshack came out, right before Doug died.

before Doug died. And Doug would say the funniest thing you've ever heard, the most impromptu, educated, erudite comedy line you'd ever heard, and then Chevy would step on it and not let him get a laugh and make a fart joke. And Doug would just look at you and go, eh, that's Chevy. But he was, I remember he looked at me one day and just said, no more free brunch, you know. A takeoff on the, there's no free lunch line, you know.

And it's like he would just do those things that they were so smart. I mean, he was the heart and soul of the Lampoon. Yeah, he sure was. And I think that he was tortured. He was obviously very tortured. And he'd had so much success and so much money so early that by the time he got to Eugene, Oregon, when we were shooting Animal House,

you could see that he was delicate. He was on a delicate balance. And then once that hit, as big as it hit, his first movie becomes the most successful comedy of all times. And then he was off to the races. I mean, you couldn't stop him. And then when he did Caddyshack and it wasn't as successful as Animal House the first weekend. How could it follow?

How could anything follow that? I said, dog, Animal House is a home run. This is a double or a triple. I said, well, how bad can it be? You know, I mean, they can't all be home runs. And a week later he was dead. Hard on himself. And he jumped off a mountain in Hawaii.

Or fell. Or, yeah. I think Harold Ramis had the classic line about Doug Kinney. He said, I think Doug slipped and fell off the hill while looking for a place to jump. That's a great line. It's a great line. You know what? Gallows humor to the end yeah

and then his and then his funeral service somehow inspired the movie The Big Chill which was also a very a very weird is that right yeah the producer

is a guy named Michael Schamberg who was there and thought to make a movie about this young genius who didn't live up to his potential yeah yeah the Costner character that you don't actually see in the movie that's right and thought to make a movie about this young genius who didn't live up to his potential.

Yeah. Yeah, the Costner character that you don't actually see in the movie. That's right. Such chemistry among those actors. And, I mean, I assume you credit Landis and Ivan Reitman for assembling everybody, but it's as if you guys were acting together your whole lives. I mean, it's almost like you're watching an established comedy team, especially you and Riegert.

Oh, yeah. I guess those things just happen. They exist in a state of bliss, but that really clicked. There was, you know, I think a lot of credit, the script was the most brilliant, well-written, well-crafted script I'd ever seen. And we didn't do a lot of improvisation. And Landis brought us up the Deltas five days early, and we'd basically rehearsed.

But no, but there were no rehearsals because Landis didn't know anything about all that stuff. But we just hung out and spent all day together every day and were getting in the spirit of it. And I remember when we did the, there was two scenes where Peter and I were in. I think the scene where belushi um was saying well what what happened to the germans when they bombed pearl harbor oh yeah

the rallying cry speech the right that sequence and and it was the um and and there was a another scene with the toga party scene where I gave Peter a line. I said, look, it was Otter's line. He says, you know what we have to do? Toga party. And that was Otter's line. And I said to Peter, I said, look, we're so tight. Why don't we say it?

We look at each other and say it together at the same time. And I pitched that to Landis. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, try it. And so it just made more sense to me that we were – and it was little things like that that bonded us because Peter and I bonded anyway. And we were all very much in character and in sync. Plus we got into a huge fight with a fraternity up in Oregon. Oh, really?

Together the weekend before we started shooting. So we got our ass kicked by these football players that were invading their party, their rush party. So they said, you can't be in here. Only fraternity members could be in here. And I said, well, all right, we'll leave. I'm sorry, big deal. All right, we're leaving. But they were all drunk, and then they jumped us out on the lawn, and we ran into the night laughing. I have to blow a little smoke up your butt, Tim, because as much as I love Chevy,

I think that the character would have been a little too wink-wink with Chevy playing it. And I assume it would have been kind of a cousin of Ty Webb in Caddyshack, Chevy's character. And your version of Eric, he's a cad and an operator, but there's a little innocence to him. There's a little, you know what I'm trying to say? There's a sweetness to him. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Chevy was— I'm not sure Chevy would have brought out.

No, that's very nice of you thank you i think that was what landis wanted to get at i mean because he said basically you know to all of us they have to like you they have to like you can't do mean things i mean i there was uh there was a line in the script as i recall where we're on our way to the Emily Dickinson School for Girls. We're driving. Fawn Leibowitz. You know, we're driving in this Cadillac, this Continental that Flounder's brother has loaned him for the weekend.

And Flounder's going, oh, boy, is this great. I hope we get dates, you know. And the line was that, and I said, yeah. And Flounder goes, I hope she has big tits and I think then Otter looked around and said yeah at least as big as yours and that was the written line

and then Landis I think we did a take of that and he goes no no no no it's not nice you can't be mean to him so he was always protecting the characters from being mean-spirited and some

saying things that you you know you wouldn't like and that's why the girls walked home that scene where the women yeah walk home from the um the the dexter lake club where it was the all the black club you know which was so politically incorrect it Yeah. Very funny. Which was perfect lampoon. That's why the scene is there where they're walking home, so that you know they got home okay. You know, they all weren't raped and murdered and left by the side of the road. So that we looked okay. We ran out and left them there, you know.

It was like a bad thing. We've got to do something. He's serious this time. I think he knows about the exams. He's right. You're right. We've got to do something. He's serious this time. I think he knows about the exams. He's right. You're right. We've got to do something. Absolutely. You know what we've got to do?

Toga party. We're on double secret probation, whatever that is. We can't afford to have a toga party. You guys up for a toga party? Toga! Toga! I think they like the idea, Hoof. Oh, Otter, please don't do this. We've got news for you, pal. They're going to nail us no matter what we do.

So we might as well have a good time. Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! Toga! We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. I love what you tweeted when Stephen Furst, who passed too young, and a funny guy in his own right. Tell Gilbert what you tweeted as a tribute. Well, I think I said, hey, Flounder, you fucked up. You trusted us. It was perfect.

It was funny and edgy and sweet at the same time. I remember him saying in an interview about his weight, and he used to say he would go into McDonald's, and he used to say he would go into McDonald's and he was so embarrassed by how much he ate that he used to make a list and he would make it look like he's ordering for other people. And he'd go in McDonald's and go, okay, Frank wants the fish fillet and i think bob

wants a large diet coke poor guy yeah yeah i hated him when he got up there we he he he was so innocent and so like like golly gee you know he was one so like that after about three days of this i just i'd had enough of this shut the fuck up would you you just you're just bugging the shit out of me and and then and then after three or four more days even before we started shooting he's i kind of fell in love with the guy you know know, you sort of just, ah, that's Steven, you know. Because he had just this way about him. And he told these silly, stupid stories about how, you know, he froze his dog. No, he blew his dog up in the – no, I froze Fluffy was the story.

He froze his dog. He got his dog all wet and dirty. And he knew he was going to get in trouble. So he stuck him in the freezer to try and, you try and dry him out or something. I don't know why he put him in the freezer and then he forgot about him and left him in there. Oh my god. That's a terrible story. I know.

What I remember is after Animal House came out there were about two or three TV shows. There was one on every network. Yeah. That's right.

Yes. That was trying to be the Animal House series. It was Delta House, I think, was the one that had Stephen in it. Yeah, Stephen and D-Day. And then Jamie Widows, maybe. Jamie Widows and I think Jim Doughton and a bunch of other people. It was Brothers and Sisters. Michelle Pfeiffer was in it.

Michelle Pfeiffer was on it. Yeah. There was one called Brothers and Sisters. Oh, okay. And I can't remember the other one. But they all had a version of Animal House

that was on the network. Right. But that cast, I mean, Karen Allen and Kevin Bacon and you and Peter

and Widows, I mean, it's just, it's a great cast and it's just great to watch everybody. And John Vernon, tell us about,

and there's a guy with a career. Yes. You see him in Point Blank with Lee Marvin? You must have. Yes, yes. Tell us a little bit about him. Well, he was, you know, Landis just fought to get him in the movie. And, you know, and Cesare De Nova.

I mean, here were these, again, character actors, character stars that had been, you know, he'd been a heavy villain, you know, in Clint Eastwood movies and Josie Wales, I think. I mean, he was a very formidable actor. So I think he was the perfect Dean Wormer. But he kept trying to be funny. And Landis would go, no, no, no, no. He'd come to John and he'd say, he'd pitch him, John, you know, I'll do this, I'll do this, and then I'll do this and this,

and he goes, no, no, no, just say the lines. Just, you know, it's perfect the way it is. But very nice fellow, you know, wonderful man. I mean, I didn't, you see, we were all in our own compartments. I mean, we only had one or two scenes with Dean Wormer, so I never saw him. Right. I mean, he only had one or two scenes with Dean Wormer, so I never saw him.

I mean, he was around the roadway in, but, and I realized that the other day, there really only one scene where we're all together with the Deltas and the Omegas and Vernon

and just everyone is in the courtroom scene. That's right. That's the one scene where we all, you know, and really it's just, it's Jamie, Widows, and me, I think, and John Vernon, and, you know, and it was really. And Marmalade and. Yeah, and all those people are there.

But, I mean, it's like we sort of carried the ball, and it was a very special day when we did that. Because, you know, we shot the movie in like five weeks. It was like we had no time for anything. He played a cartoon superhero, as you did. You were on Space Ghosts, and he was iron. You ever see those bad Marvel cartoons from the early 60s? Oh, horrible.

Where they basically just animated comic strips and tried to make—he was Iron Man. Who was? John Vernon. No way. He was Iron Man. Who was? John Vernon. No way. He was. Wow. He was. I remember those.

He did those Marvel Super Heroes cartoons. 65, 64. They would have a still frame. That's correct. Of like Spider-Man, and they would shake it around for the action. That's pretty much it. There would be no animation, or they'd zoom in and zoom out on the picture real quick. Yep.

And I think I may have misspeaking here. He might have been Sub-Mariner, too. He had a long career. He did a lot of interesting things. Yeah. And it's funny you talk about the acting style, because we had Ed Begley in here talking about playing comedy. And maybe he was talking about Spinal Tap. I can't remember what it was.

And we had David Zucker zucker here from airplane but talking about and ed was saying you got to play it like it's strindberg for it for it to work and it's interesting that landis gave him that direction play it straight when you watch animal house today you realize it's really not trying hard to be funny oh no it's playing it like a drama that's why one of the reasons it works and and when zucker was on it was like originally they wanted a load airplane with comedians and then what i always felt what what what hurt leslie nielsen was when he realized he was funny. And he was no longer the B actor that he was in Airplane, and he was trying to be funny. Yes, yes.

Some of that may have been direction. You know, Zucker was here, and I think he was very happy with Stack, and he's very happy with Nielsen, but he says looking back now, Bridges was a little broad. Lloyd Bridges was going for laughs, and it still bothers him. 37 years later. He's dead. Dig him up. Make him do it again. The other thing about Animal House, this I found funny.

The guy that played Otis Day, I hope this is true and not bullshit, Dwayne Jesse, changed his name to Otis Day and toured. That's so cool. And he makes a lot of money. Isn't that cool? To this day, especially like this is our 40th anniversary year, and there's a lot of, you know, like Chiller and those kinds of events. There's a lot of these events, andiller and right right right there's a lot of

these events and i actually was at one down in uh orlando no i take it back it was in tampa bay and and uh um otis was there and i always wanted to call him duane and i said no no his name call him call him jason name to the character's name gilbert And he gets, you know, he plays with a local band and he sings the songs and he gets paid a lot of money. Damn it, everything works in that movie, no matter how many times you see it. And I know this is the thing about art, is that sometimes

there are happy accidents. But you go back and you watch that thing and you think, oh, am I looking at this, you know, through nostalgia, you know, through rose-colored glasses because I remembered it so fondly? Like Blazing Saddles or Young Frankenstein. You could just put it on, and it's just textbook. Well, I agree, and it's a testament, I think, to the script because Harold Ramis and Chris Miller and Doug Kenny were the smartest guys in the room, and it was just that good.

Belushi was really the only one who improvised much. We might have thrown in a line here. I got an idea. Let me try this. Yeah, go ahead. But mostly was per script. It was written that way and performed that way, and those guys were just geniuses.

I mean, Harold had a tremendous career as a director and an actor. Right, sure. And, you know, I mean, Harold had a tremendous career as a director and an actor. Right, sure. But better as a director and a writer. And, you know, Doug certainly as a writer and the founder of the Lampoon, you know, and we lost him too soon. To all of them. You know, we would have killed to have Ramos here. But it's also a turning point for you because at this point you're saying I'm not doing comedies.

I'm playing Westerns. I'm playing boy next door characters. Now after Animal House, you comedy guy yeah you're in up you're in up the creek you're in uh you're in 1941 doing a doing a a big comedy scene suddenly get matheson if you're doing this comedy i mean spielberg called me i don't know how he found me i was on my way back from i think the how the west was one or or the apple dumpling gang rise again which were two jobs that i took after animal house i believe uh not how the west was one but i did but it must have been uh apple dumpling gang because i needed the money there was no money for animal house nobody got paid anything i mean i think i got paid 20 grand for six weeks which was less than my TV money.

You know, it was less than I normally made. I said, for this one, I'll do it. And so I'm on my way back from Utah after shooting this movie with Tim Conway and Don Knotts. And I stop at like the MGM Grand. And I, you know, wake up and the phone's ringing one morning. And it's Spielberg. And he wants me to, he wants you to come over to the studio.

I want to get to know you. I loved you in the Animal House. And it was like, okay. And when I got there, he said, I got, there's three parts of this movie and you can have any of them you want. But I think you should take this one, but whatever you want to do.

And it was like, okay, all right. And I realized the character I played in it, Loomis Burkhead, was a character that could have been and should have probably been cut out of the movie. And the movie's way too long, I think. It's funny, but it's one of those things that easily that whole sequence with me and Nancy Allen, that whole thing could have been cut out of the movie.

Well, yes, it's not germane to the rest of the plot. No. But it doesn't matter. I don't want them to cut it out because it's one of the funniest things in the movie. Yes. Thank you. I mean, it was so much and and his success and his stardom had taken such a toll on him by from the time we did animal house till the time you know we did 1941 i mean blues brother had been in between and now they're touring he and

danny were touring as blues brothers and and you know they've got to hit records and they hit movies. And so, you know, it was just and everybody he met wanted to party with him. So, I mean, he even had a he had bodyguards to keep people away from giving him drugs, which never worked. And and but he was yeah, he was in not in the best shape at that point. best shape at that point. And when you were doing Animal House with him, it's funny because for a guy with a drug problem, he was like, wasn't it like half the week he'd fly to New York to do Saturday Night Live and fly back and do Animal House? Exactly.

But he was clean. I don't know what they did in New York, but at least when he was with us, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then on Wednesday night, they'd drive him to Portland and put him on a plane, Red Eye to New York,

and Thursday, Friday, Saturday, he'd be there in New York doing rehearsals, and Saturday night live, they'd perform it Saturday night, late live, and then they'd pour him on a plane on Sunday morning, and he'd fly back to Eugene, and usually it was me and Bruce McGill

who played D-Day. We'd pick him up and bring him back to his house where Judy was waiting, and we'd have a nice quiet dinner and then go to work on Monday. And he was on his best behavior, and you didn't see any of that, you know, any of that druggie behavior, thank God. And that's why he's so good. And that's why you loved him.

His character, he has that, he was so cuddly, you know. He just had a big heart. And it came across in whatever he did. and i think that's one of the things that made him so funny and and uh and so dear and and by the time we got around to 1941 and then afterwards uh it just he wasn't so cuddly you know sounds like it was a troubled set 1941 for for a lot for a lot of reasons yeah it just went on and on and on. I mean, you know, and there was all this, you know, amazing talent. And we're just, and I'm not in most of the scenes that everybody else was in. So I'm off doing my thing alone with Nancy.

And I think there were a certain couple of scenes that I was in while they were in the main street with everybody else. So, but, you know, you'd sit around for three weeks waiting to shoot one little scene yeah and because that's how steven worked then and he liked everybody there and we may get to it we may not and that was just the way it did it but it was a huge huge movie there are individual moments in there we've recommended the movie on the show on this show you know stack has some great moments the christopher lee slim pickens to shiro Mifune stuff is just off the wall. Ned Beatty's very funny. But I think Gilbert would agree.

It's like most all-star comedies. It's hard to pull them off for some reason. Yeah. It's like they get outsized. It's just like mad, mad, mad, mad world. Too big. It's like I advise everyone to see it, but it's not that good. Yeah, yeah.

No, you're right. And I think when you look at Animal House, everybody has their own unique style of comedy. Yeah. You know, Belushi's physical and not much dialogue. Yeah. You know, Belushi's physical and not much dialogue. And I'm sort of this, you know, guy that's trying to get laid. And Boone and Katie are a romantic, you know, Marx Brothers kind of thing. And Pinto and Flounder are like Laurel and Hardy.

You know what I mean? So everybody's got their own little distinct voice. Well, in 1941, everybody had the same voice, and it was just ah! You know, it was just crazy. Pitch manic. Yeah, there's also lacking heart that Animal House has. There's an emotional center in Animal House. I agree.

Tell us quickly about working with Tim Conway and Don Knotts. And Jack Elam. Kenneth Mars is in that movie. Anotherie another genius oh my god yeah um i the don knots was the sweetest shyest quietest guy he was really like if you gilbert i don't know if you ever seen the the things that he did on the steve allen show i'm older than you so but they would do the man on the street, and he was like this nervous guy, and he was, you know, he was always getting, he was very nervous. And, well, that was sort of Don, you know. I mean, he was kind of just sweet, and he didn't know why he was a star. I mean, he, you know, kind of did,

but he, and Tim Conway was merciless to, he would break him up, and he would try and break him up in every scene they did. And often he'd get to the point where he would just look at him, and Don would just go, you know. So it was hard to get through a take without Don, you know, falling to pieces and saying, stop that. Just stop that. But Tim Conway, God, he was. Both brilliant. Yeah. Both comedy icons, I think.

Yeah. I mean, I don't remember much about that movie, except it was a Western. We shot it up in Northern California, and there was a train involved. And then we shot in Utah a part of the time, too. So it was fun. I mean, it was my only Disney film, really. I think it was the only time I ever really worked at Disney. Interesting.

And, yeah, I mean, but those guys were just, it was a joy to be on the set with them. They were just too funny. Here's a couple of quick wild cards, Tim, as we wind down. Did you audition for Indiana Jones? Oh, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Well, everybody in Hollywood auditioned for that.

And I remember I was doing a play or going into a play, and it was a question whether I'm going to do the play here at the Mark Taper Forum in Los Angeles or I'm going to do Indiana Jones. Of course you want to do Indiana Jones. And I just knew I looked too young for that part. I mean, I barely was shaving. I'm in my late 20s, but I have a very light beard. And I knew that, you know, and so I just did what I could.

I added lines to my face and just make, you know. And I remember I did a good test. I did a pretty good test. And I remember finally like three or four days later, you know, the agent said, you know what, they love you, but they're not, you know, they're going to go another way. I said, all right. They said, but George Lucas wants you to come in.

He wants to talk to you. And I said, really? Okay. So on my way to the rehearsal, I'm going to do the play now. I go in and see George Lucas, and I'm kind of heartbroken. I mean, I knew this was a big movie. I knew it was going to be big. And I wanted to work with Steven again too.

And George Lucas said, yeah, well, you know, he's, and he's so shy and, you know, well, you know, it was a tough choice and we're going to go on really sorry. And I said, well, yeah. And he said, but you, you know, you, you did the best test. Yours was the best test. And I know he's probably bullshitting me, but I thought, oh, well, thanks. It's like the girl breaking up with you and said,

yeah, you were a great lay. But so long, sucker. I'm sucking his dick. And I looked at George Lucas and I said, oh, George, don't worry about it. We'll work together again. And it was like, I'm consoling him for this. It's hilarious.

Oh, geez. You know, and I want to say, too, you play a good bad guy. Fletch, I just rewatched the Brady Bunch sequel. You play a fun, what's the word? Asshole? Huh? word? Asshole? Huh? Yeah.

Asshole? You do, and that's got to be hard to do. It's got to be hard to play that character and still be likable. I just play myself, you know? I mean, and the best, one of the best that, you know, thank you very much. Always the best roles are the villains. And I did a character named dead Larry on burn notice, which was actually one of my favorite.

Oh, we got to dig that up. Yeah, it's fun. Really, really fun. He's, he's the,

he's like the biggest jerk, but you loved him, but he cut your throat. You know, the second you weren't looking, you do have that little, there's that little Indiana Jones opening in the Brady sequel. Right.

By one chance. Yeah, you got a little bit close to it. I just want to go back quick, Tim, before we let you get out of here. Because I've got to bring these names up. And we didn't talk really about Space Ghost or the late, great Gary Owens. But also Ted Cassidy. Key Luke, who you mentioned.

Paul Freese. These people are iconic. Key Luke. I think I worked with Key Luke on The Hardy Boys. Okay. Which is something I did, a pilot that didn't sell when I was like 17. Oh, no, 18. Because I know part of the reason that I got the job was for all the people who auditioned, you had to have a deferment.

Because this was during the Vietnam War. And so no matter how good you were, if you didn't have a good deferment, then they couldn't hire you because, you know, you'd be drafted and be gone. And I had a deferment, so they let me test and I got the job. But that's where I worked with Key Luke and all those guys. And what was your deferment? I had a 2S, which was a student deferment, and then I lost my deferment and went into the Marine Corps Reserves

and did six months active duty and then came back to my reserve unit in Los Angeles. So I was in the Marine Corps but never saw active duty, never went to Vietnam. Wow. Interesting. Thank God. Otherwise, I'd have been dead. You want to tell us about somebody you both knew before we jumped, Sam Kinison?

Yeah. Sam. Sam. He was great. I mean, my experience with him was um we did this pilot you know and and you know and he was legendary drug issue and drug problems and one of the funniest people i ever met charlie hoover charlie hoover for fox and um but he was clean and sober and straight arrow through the whole pilot. He played my demonic, evil sort of voice in my ear, you know, to try and – and I was a milk-toasty guy that, you know, he was trying to get me to break loose.

And he'd say, yeah, you know, get out there and do it. So – and we came in after we shot the pilot, and I think it got picked up, and we were going to do the series, and we came in to we shot the pilot, and I think it got picked up, and we were going to do the series, and we came in to record a bunch of lines, loop some lines, re-record sounds, and I said to Sam, I said, God, you know, I love you. How did you get off drugs, and what's your deal?

He said, I'm not sober. I said, fuck it. He said, have you ever had one of these? And he pulled out some big pill. I had to fuck it. You know, he said, have you ever had one of these? And he pulled out some big pill. And I thought, oh, holy shit.

We're in for it now. And, you know, and he was great to work with. And, again, a troubled man. But, I mean, what a brilliant comedian. He was. You know, a brilliant stylist. I mean, Gil, you knew him. I mean, you guys performed together. How old did you know Kennison? What I

remember about my best memory about him was I went on the Emmys as a presenter and I got in trouble for doing these jokes about Pee Wee Herman masturbating in a theater.

George Schlatter's still mad at you. Yeah. And they cut it out, and there were all this outrage. And I remember Kennison was cracking up. And he said he loved it because everybody was worried that he was going to do something bad. He took him off the hook. So when I got in trouble, he thought that was the greatest thing in the world. You watched a couple of guys, you know, young talents burn out.

And John Belushi and Sam and also Chris Farley. Chris Farley. He did Black Sheep. And all these guys, you know, they were so vulnerable and they had such big hearts. And Farley, too, I mean, I think he had a death wish. I think he sort of really revered John Belushi and revered Animal House and wanted always to hear about it. You know, he couldn't have been more generous and nice to me and fun to –

and he was one of those performers, Chris Farley, was between takes while they were setting up a scene or lighting a scene, he'd entertain the background artists. There were 250 background artists extras there as a crowd for a campaign rally. He would do a strip tease to get them all you know laughing and just relaxed i mean he just couldn't not perform so um and he was sober while we were doing the movie but smoked more and drank more coffee than any 10 people i've ever seen in my life and i wow, if this is how compulsive he is about smoking and coffee,

I would hate to see him when he's off the wagon. And what was the cast of Bonanza like? There's one out of left field. Speaking of druggies, come on. How tight were you with Hop Singh? We always talk about on this show, we bounce from someone being born to how would you like to be remembered to the middle of your career. And I just saw, I wrote down, how was the cast of Bonanza? You know, that was the 14th year.

of Bonanza? You know, that was the 14th year and, you know, you'd have to drag these people onto the set because,

you know, they'd done this show so long. And really, Michael Landon was running the show and they loved it. He ran the show

very well. He wrote a lot of the episodes, you know, and Lorne was there. They were all getting paid a lot of money to do this.

And I got into trouble because I had, you you know i'd never really done a lot of press and and so they but when i got cast in it they tv guide did an you know a whole episode a whole issue about bonanza and i was quoted as saying you know i think the time for these kinds of shows has come to an end and that it's time for a new kind of Western. And Michael Landon took tremendous exception that I said that and almost never forgave me. He was always nice to me, but I don't think he was ever really pleased that I'd said, you know, he called me and read me the riot act and I apologized and said, you know, he said, people have died, people spent their life And he said, people have died. People spent their life on this show. They've died on this show.

And it's like, and you're dissing them. And I said, no, no, Michael, I got quoted out of context and whatever. And he said, all right, all right. But I don't think he really ever forgave me for that. Wow. It was his family. And those were the same crews that went with him to the little house on the prairie and then Highway to Heaven. And those were the same, you know, the same group of people, the same crew that followed him everywhere.

And he was a very talented, very funny man. Nice that he was so loyal. So we'll sign off. We just want to ask you about your directing all the time now. Yeah, yeah. I've been very busy. And actually, this last couple of months, I've been so busy acting, I haven't had a chance to do much directing. So I'm just going with the flow.

And I love this business. I love, you know, I'm never more comfortable than when I'm on a set. And so I just, the door opens, I go through it. You're working with Christine Baranski on The Good Fight. You're doing movies. You're doing all kinds of stuff. Yeah. You're constantly working.

You can't get rid of him, you know? What the heck? And do you have anything to plug? Well, The Good Fight is a CBS.com show that I've been recurring on with Christine Baranski. And it's a sequel to The Good Wife. And what else? I was in Madam Secretary. And no, I just, you know, it's now the new shows have just been picked up.

And so it's all going to start over again. So this has been great fun. You guys are awesome. Well, we thank you for doing this. You know, we wanted you on this show, and we really appreciate you making the schlep and being part of this oral history project. We've done over 200 of them. Wow. Good for you.

This is fabulous. Really fabulous. Really fabulous. Okay, so this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the man who took over National Lampoon and failed miserably. He ran it right into the ground. Sad but true. He ran it right into the ground. Sad but true. Tim, this is the first guest.

You're the first guest where my wife wanted to actually come to the recording. Oh! So, I like to flatter you a little bit. And thanks for being so great a chiller, too. All right, well, thank you. Thanks, Frank and Gil. It's great being here, and thank you. Oh, thank you, Tim Matheson, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you, Tim. Thank you and thank you. Oh, thank you, Tim Matheson, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, Tim. Thank you. Thank you. Animal House. Animal House. Animal House. Animal House. Animal House. Animal House. That kid, he's a real swell guy. I'm a whole house I'm a whole house

That dinner, he's a real swell guy A rat with gel, big body, gave her a try She dug and prayed, where's second to none They started under a tiller behind Mr. Jennings got his wig on right Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Furtarosa

Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals Special audio contributions by John Beach Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis, and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. Woo!

Yeah! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! And come on!