Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 215. Sid and Marty Krofft

Episode Date: July 9, 2018

Legendary producers, puppeteers and showmen Sid and Marty Krofft join Gilbert and Frank for a fun-filled (and fact-filled) conversation about their unusual creative process, the origins of "H.R. Pufnstuf" and "Land of the Lost" and the failure of their indoor theme park, "The World of Sid and Marty Krofft." Also, Dean Martin drops the ax, Bette Davis drops an f-bomb, Walt Disney doles out advice and Liberace "dates" Sonja Henie. PLUS: Live, nude puppets! Sid Caesar to the rescue! The late, great Martha Raye! "The Brady Bunch Variety Hour"! And the Kroffts sue McDonald's -- and win! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time.

This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. hi i'm gilbert godfrey and this is gilbert godf Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guests this week are Emmy-winning puppeteers, designers, writers, producers, and creators of some of the most inventive, original, and imaginative

specials and television shows in the history of the medium. Their outlandish, weird, and wonderful programs are too numerous to list, but we'll try. are too numerous to list, but we'll try. H.R. Puffin Stuff, Lidsville, Sigmund and the Sea Monsters, The Bugaloos, Far Out Space Nuts,

The Lost Saucer, The Croft Super Show, Land of the Lost, Donnie and Marie, The Brady Bunch Variety Hour, the Bay City Roller Show, Pink Lady and Jeff, Briar's Place, and DC Follies. In careers that span an impressive seven decades, they've worked with and alongside a virtual who's who of entertainment history, including Judy Garland, Dean Martin, Bing Crosby, Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra, Liberace, Mickey Rooney, Sid Caesar, and Richard Pryor,

as well as our former podcast guests, Chuck McCann, Mark Evanier, Gino Conforte and Bruce Stern. We've wanted them here ever since we started this show, and we're thrilled that they're finally with us. Please welcome two visionary artists who greatly influenced Frank's childhood and mine, as well as the childhoods of millions of living legends, Sid and Marty Kroff. Not millions of living legends. Thank you. Millions.

Now, Sid. Hey, listen. Do you know the truth of the matter? What? All those names they mentioned, we don't have one picture with any of them. You don't? No, we do so. Now, Sid.

Hey, listen. This is Sid. And I gotta tell you something. Thank you so much for having us on because I am a huge, huge fan of yours. And you really make me laugh my ass off. I'm a huge

fan. And I'm a huge fan. And I never heard of you. I'm a big fan of Frank's. Thank you. Thank you, Marty. So Sid makes me feel like a million bucks, and you make me feel like throwing myself in front of a train not until this is over the comedy stylings of Sid and Marty Kroff ladies and gentlemen

we are thrilled to have you both here we can't tell you it was gonna be no go ahead do you and I was just about to say Marty and myself have been working together for 60 years. Oh, my God. And I've been in the business for 78. So I've been around and back. 78. Wow. And you actually started it all with you being a puppeteer.

Right. Well, what happened was the very first movie that I saw, full-length movie, was The Wizard of Oz. And I knew that I wanted to be something in the business, not an actor. I was too tall to be a little person. So I couldn't figure it out. But the following week, someone gave my dad one ticket to see a stage show at the Faze Theater

in Providence, Rhode Island. And I never saw a live show before. And he brought me to the theater. He asked this couple to bring me in, and there was a puppet act, and the puppet act had a clown. I never saw a puppet before, and the clown blew up a balloon, and the balloon broke, the clown blew up a balloon and the balloon broke and the clown got really sad and i started to cry so loud that they threw me out of the theater that's a beautiful story and i sat in front of the theater i don't know probably hours waiting for my dad to pick me up and people would walk by and think that I was, where's your mom? Where's your dad?

How do we make anybody believe that we don't do drugs? Well, you, you've been fighting that, uh, that rep for, for many, many years, Marty. No, I'm going to answer it later. Okay. But anyway. I'm here. What happened was. You get used to it because Marty always interrupts. Sid, we only have 45 minutes. We've got to get out of Providence.

Okay. And what happened was... I love it. You guys are like the Sunshine Boys. Yeah. I went... Older. Okay.

I went to my dad because there was a kid on our block that had the very first Superman comic book. And in the comic book, there was an ad for a marionette three dollars 95 cents and i went to my dad and i asked him if i could get it and he was furious you know he never hit us but he really let me have it he said three dollars 95 cents would feed your family for weeks or a month and first of all you're a boy and you want a dolly and so in that same i was born at the end of the story

oh my god Oh, my God. You guys are hilarious. I purchased my first marionette, and that's how it all started. $3.95. That show in Rhode Island that you speak of, that was a vaudeville show, Sid? Yes, it was. How about that? Yeah.

Yeah. So it's so funny that your father was against that one puppet, and the two of you become legends because of that. An inauspicious beginning. Well, what happened was- 20 years later, we sold that puppet for $50,000. Did you? No.

Wow. We didn't. I still? Wow. We didn't. I still have it. I have it. I've got it in the original box. So that was 1940 when that happened. Wow. What is this story?

I'm sure you guys are asked about this. The story that used to go around that you guys came from a family of puppeteers dating back to the 1700s? That was when we were doing drugs. That was a manufactured story by a publicist. I see. No, we didn't come from puppeteers. Don't blame that on a publicist. Like in ancient Rome or something.

The 1700s in Athens. The story was the publicists put out in the world that you guys came from like eight generations of puppeteers. It was bullshit. So, everybody, whenever I say I'm going to be talking to Sid and Marty, they always say, well, ask them what drugs they were on. That's the question that always comes up. Okay. Do you want me to answer that? Do you know we do Comic-Con every single year since it opened?

Uh-huh. And the fans, I can't believe it. Every time we walk out, we think nobody's going to be there. They're up against the walls. And, of course, they come to see us and they come to hear us. And we never answer that question. But last year, when I walked out, I said, well, you know, you keep coming back and hearing the same thing.

Well, now I'm going to tell you something that you've asked us all these years were we on drugs when we created this and I said well I'm speaking for myself if three presidents said they did not inhale I did they ripped the seats out they went nuts I love it but it wasn't funny the question when they asked me that question

I'm happy to tell them if I did as many drugs as they thought I did I'd be dead sure so that's you cannot to be serious right you cannot create and produce shows stoned.

The audience, now the college kids and whoever watches it, I don't know what they're doing. Right. But I'm not doing it. Maybe the writers of Pink Lady and Jeff. Yeah. They needed more than drugs. Do you know that show is in a time capsule? Did you know that?

No, that's great It's been buried somewhere in Hollywood We had Mark Evanier here Who wrote for you guys on that show Oh, I love Mark He's the best Explain the history of Pink Lady and Jack Marty, why did every episode end up with them in a hot tub?

Better them than me. History's quick. I got a call from Fred Silverman who said he's got two Japanese girls who are the biggest stars in Japan. They sold more records than the Beatles in Japan. So the first question I asked was, do they speak English? And he said to me, yeah, of course. Now, they arrived in America.

I should have known it was going to be bad on December the 7th. That's hilarious. So now we're in the office with them, and the manager said speak real slowly. Well, we couldn't talk any slower, and so they didn't speak any English. So I looked at my brother, and I said, we are in big trouble. And so they didn't speak any English. So I looked at my brother and I said, we are in big trouble.

But we somehow produced 15 minutes. The network gave us $300,000 to do a development tape. And then we barely could pull it together. I went back to New York with the tape, the show with the Fred Silverman at NBC. So I'm sitting there talking to him about the pink lady was his idea. And we were praying that they wouldn't pick it up, right? But anyway, he's sitting there watching the tape and his red phone rings.

And it was the news department saying, the head of the news was saying, we got to talk to you right away. They're releasing the hostages in Iran in an hour. He says to the news head, he said, I can't talk to you right now. I'm watching Pink Lady. That was how it all started. And, you know, on the first show, Sid Caesar was on the first show. Yeah, you spent a fortune on guests. There are a lot of good guests on that show.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Sid Caesar was on the first show. Yeah, you spent a fortune on guests. There are a lot of good guests on that show. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Sid Caesar was on all of them. He did them all. Did he? He was incredible. Yeah, yeah. Didn't help us with the ratings.

And wasn't like... I'll tell you. Go ahead. I want to tell you one story quick. Fred Silverman, the ratings are in the garbage. So Fred Silverman calls me up and says, we've got to get a big star. I said, well, I don't know if that's going to help. The ratings are in the garbage. So Fred Silverman calls me up and says, we've got to get a big star.

I said, well, I don't know if that's going to help. So I called him back and I said, look, I can get Larry Hagman, but they want $100,000. And the rate then for a star, a guest star, was $7,500. So he says, okay, let's pay him $100,000. I said, I'm not paying it on our end. So of course when we finally got them and they

paid, the ratings went down. Oh my God. And wasn't Jeff Altman, he wasn't in the original concept of the show. He was thrown in once you realized you had these girls. Sort of like Tony

Orlando and Dawn, wasn't it? We had to get somebody to speak English. How did Pink Lady do? Did they go back to Japan after the end of the show? Did their careers... They're still thriving. They're still working.

Amazing. I took them to Disneyland the show i'm yeah their careers they're still thriving they're still working amazing amazing but they went back i took them to disneyland oh my god we had to get all the bodyguards we could it was amazing because they were huge huge stars not in amer Well, with the Japanese at Disneyland. Oh, yeah, of course. So they were recognized by tourists. Yeah, absolutely. How about that? Sid, I'm going to go way back again to the beginning. You joined Ringling Brothers when you were a teenager?

And you were billed as the world's youngest puppeteer? Do I have this right? Oh, yeah. Did you read the book? How did you know all this? We have a crack staff. We do deep research, yeah. Did you read the book? How did you know all this? We have a crack staff. We do deep research, Marty. Wow.

Okay, I was 15 years old, and I saw an ad in Billboard. Billboard at that time was a circus and carnival magazine. Oh. Before it was music. And there was an ad in there. I didn't tell my dad that they were looking for novelty acts for the sideshow. I never saw a circus. I didn't know what that meant.

And they just opened at Madison Square Garden, the old Madison Square Garden. It was in March. Massenswear Garden, the old Massenswear Garden, it was in March. And I took some of my puppets and I had a Vic Troller with my music. And I went down and auditioned and they said, okay, you got a job. You can start immediately. And I didn't even tell my parents. I'd never been away from home.

Wow. And they said, you're going to travel all over the country. I said, how much money so I can tell my dad? And they said, $40 a week. And I said, oh, I can't do that. That's not enough. I mean, $40 was like we'd be millionaires. And the reason I said that is because I was scared to death, you know, to leave my home at 15 years old.

But the best part of that job was he lived on the train with the tattooed lady, the giant, and the fat lady. Oh, my gosh. Well well we had more than that it was the most frightening well i asked for fifty dollars and they gave it to me so when i told my dad fifty dollars a week he said two hundred dollars a month, okay, quit school and go, you know, because that was a fortune. When I got out of the circus, two years I traveled with them, I was offered the Sonia Henney Broadway show if I could do it on ice skates at Center Theater. Center Theater. He didn't get that. He didn't clarify it.

Sonia Henney won the Olympics a few times as an ice skater. Famous skater. She had this theater in New York, right next to Radio City Music Hall. It was the second biggest theater in the world. They tore it down. And they had an ice show there. And I went and auditioned.

I couldn't even skate. I was holding on to my rack with my puppets. And they hired me. Wait a minute. You had to ice skate and do puppetry simultaneously? Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

And they hired me. I had a week to learn how to skate i couldn't stop and i couldn't turn around and guess what brooks atkinson of the new york times they named a broadway theater after him i got got the headline. It said, Sid Croft's strutting puppets are masterpieces. It was like the sensation of New York. I love it. Yeah. So now while he was doing all that,

I was about nine, 10, 11 years old. We had no cash still. So we were living in the Bronx with cockroaches. He was gone doing his act. And I lived that. We actually moved right behind Yankee, about three blocks from Yankee Stadium. So I used to, as I was like when I was 12, I worked in a drugstore that had a lunch counter, and the hotel on the Grand Concourse had all the visiting ballplayers. So I used to walk Joe DiMaggio down the hill to the ballpark a lot.

So I knew all those ballplayers when I was a kid. Phil Rizzuto and Barrow, all those guys. Bobby Brown, all those guys. Tommy those, Bobby Brown, all those guys. Sure, Tommy Henrick, how about that? Wow. Didn't Liberace spread a rumor that he and Sonia Henney were having a hot and heavy affair? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

Liberace was, I met him when I became a Hilton act. The Hilton hotels all over the country had a showroom. And if you played a Hilton hotel, you were a huge, huge star. You know, the Waldorf Astoria, La Plaza. You gave $52 a week then. Wow. Only kidding. And Liberace was a famous society act.

And after Judy Garland, the tour I did with Judy Garland over a year, then I toured with Liberace. And boy, are there some great stories to be told. Tell us one. Really? Was that the show, Marty, where you said it cost $2,000 to travel the show and it was only taking in $1,500 a week? Well, it was more than that.

The loss was bigger. The loss was bigger. The loss was bigger? Yeah. Yeah. We never did well with the, you know, our show, our act always cost more than we were getting because of the amount of. Wasn't Liberace at the time known as a big ladies' man? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, definitely. Yeah, you didn't know. Those were the days where you knew nothing about Star's personal lives. Because everything was hidden, you know. There was not that many secrets then. And his audience, the women were all there but they were like about 130 years old well they used to plaster his picture on the magazines on the celebrity traveling with

him huge was very funny yeah i i joined sid a little bit before that but I remember he had a house in Palm Springs and I was like 19 or 20 and he had the Cadillac with the piano it was a piano, all the piano in the back seat it looked like a piano and he let me drive it of course I was thinking this was a good car to pick up girls with

no way this is a good car to pick up girls with. No way. You know, there's one thing that I want to say about Liberace. That movie that was made with Michael... Michael Douglas, yeah. Douglas, yeah. None of it was true. I knew Liberace since 1952. He never was like that. He was the coolest guy.

Whatever he did in his personal life was so hidden and never, ever discussed, you know, out in the open. And so, but that movie just made him just a screamer. And he wasn't, Liberace was the greatest. And I just watched it again recently. You're kidding. And that was the Brady Bunch Variety Hour. Boy, you're really jumping around there.

Yeah, yeah. That was a trip. You're watching and it looks like hell. It looks like hell. It was hell. Well, listen, they were great kids but they couldn't walk

in rhythm so we had a problem. We were on there for about six or eight weeks you know look they they tried real hard the first week we were on on abc we got a 50 share and a 27 rating that would have been number one today on the networks. The second week, we got a let's see, a 25 share and a 12 rating. So the thing, the audience caught on. But we did the best we could with it.

And we had a lot of guest stars on that too. A lot. So, yeah, we did. And it's so funny. While they were wearing outfits that by 70 standards were ugly. And they did one that was a salute to disco. And they had Rip Taylor in a duck outfit singing Disco Duck.

I love it. And Rer. Doing the rerun dance. Fred Berry. Don't you miss the 70s, guys? Oh, yeah. Oh, come on. Is that one in the time capsule too? I think it is. No, we have all that clothes in a warehouse.

They even made a movie, right? The Brady Bunch did that movie that did well. Oh, they had two of them. Yeah, yeah. And they sort of copied the singing and the dancing. Absolutely. It was great.

Not quite. They didn't copy that much. We just had Tim Matheson on before you guys who played the villain in the second movie. Oh, right. A very Brady sequel. Why was Eve Plum a holdout? The girl that played Jan.

Well, you know why? She and her father were smart. But she didn't want to do it. Yeah. She did not want to do it. So we got everybody but her. Then, you know, that, I don't know if that helped us or hurt us, but she didn't want to do it.

But I'll tell you, that whole cast was great. You know, Lawrence Henderson was. Oh, she's great, yeah. And we had swimmers. It was wild. I mean, you's great, yeah. And we had swimmers. It was wild. I mean, you watching it, didn't you laugh a lot? Yeah, nobody attempts television like that anymore. No.

So ambitious. It was jaw-dropping. Well, let me tell you, I cried a lot. Marty, you're hilarious. So, Sid, what was the unusual artistry of Sid Kroff? Was that the name of the tour? That was my act. Yeah, your act.

Yeah, right. It still is. And Marty, when you joined, you were doing puppets as well. You were producing. Well, no, I wasn't producing. I i was 11 no i i joined his act and then we turned it you know from a puppet act into les poupées de paris which is the adults only puppet show which got us on the map and then we kind of i'd like to say we turned it from an hack into a business, but being in this business, it's tough, right? So anyway, look, we did a lot of things.

We have a lot to be grateful for. Much more, we've done much more than the few movies and the massive amount of television. But, you know, most of our stuff was live, and we did a lot of things. Absolutely. In the 60s, we first met Walt Disney for the first time. And he said to us, can I give you both some advice?

And we both like, oh my God, Walt Disney's going to give us advice. He said, always put your names above everything that you create because someday it's going to be worth something. So last week, or I guess it's two weeks now, thank you, Walt. Look what we got, a lifetime achievement. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Congratulations on that lifetime achievement, Walt. Look what we got. A lifetime achievement. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Congratulations on that lifetime achievement, Emmy. I'm about to sell mine.

Already. Let's talk about, go ahead, go ahead, Marty. No, I want to kind of add to the story with Walt Disney. Yeah. We're in the polo lounge with Sid Charisse and Tony Martin, and he saw Sid Charisse and her legs. You know who she is. Sure.

And he came over and he said, whatever you do, don't sell anything that you create and always fight for your name above the title. But the one thing he didn't tell us, how do we save our money? Never had to do that. He left us with two good things. Yeah, yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast.

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19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Conax Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I want to ask you about, too, the adult puppet show and the people that was listening to the album, by the way, and I can't believe that you

got all those wonderful people are on there. Gene Kelly is on there and Sinatra and Pearl Bailey and Phil Silvers and Edie Adams and Jane Mansfield and Uncle Miltie. And Sammy Conn and Jimmy Van Heusen wrote the score. And the song,

Sammy Conn and Jimmy Van Heusen. You'll appreciate this, Gilbert. there's a Frankenstein and a Dracula puppet. And Guy Marks is doing the voice of Dracula. He's doing his Lugosi impression. Yeah.

Hey, Frank, how do you have time to work watching all this stuff and reading about us? You know too much. I know that Joey Foreman also did the Karloff voice.

He did the... Right, right. Yeah. How did you get all those people? I know the thing was a big hit. Well, I'll tell you, Sammy Kahn helped us a lot because he had written for Sinatra, everybody. So we had 18 stars in that thing,

from Gene Kelly to Sinatra to Dean Martin, you know, Sammy Davis Jr. So we built puppets of all of them, and so that's how we got there. That show played to nine and a half million people. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. That put us on the map. I'll tell you a fast story about the New York World's Fair. Yeah. Because we were the only show that survived.

So we put on the marquee of the theater you know, all the names of these stars. And we never advertised it as puppets. So it's kind of like misleading. So I was standing out front one day and a woman walked by with a little kid. And she looked at the

marquee and she said that the price was like $3. She said Frank Sinatra elvis presley dean martin jane mansfield i don't want to see her let's go she passed up all the stars what happened when billy graham came to see the show oh god that was at the seattle world's fair we were sponsored by the fair and they built this beautiful theater for us. When you walked in to the theater, it was like a garden. And the whole audience was on a turntable.

And when the show started, we revolved the people and the girls, the puppets, came out of the ceiling. There was a 30-piece orchestra. All puppets came up on an elevator. That sounds wild. I mean, it took three months.

Was there a waterfall too and a skating rink? A skating rink and all those things. All those effects. How about Billy Graham? And Billy Graham was brought to see. Thank you, Marty.

They brought, I was getting to it, Marty. Well, I mean, you got only a month here. Hey, let me ask you something. God free, do you have a lawyer that I could divorce my brother? Oh, really? He starved to death. Yeah. free. Do you have a lawyer that I could divorce my brother? Oh, really? He'd starve to death. You guys

are great. Okay, so anyway, Billy Graham Kennedy was supposed to cut the ribbon on opening day. And something happened and Billy Graham came instead. And he Uh-huh. unbelievable spectacle the whole audience was invited backstage to see the naked girls the puppets in their dressing room getting dressed to leave the theater and to see this big piece

of machinery you know well billy graham wouldn't come back And that night he had a rally of 100,000 people in the stadium. And he announced that everybody in America should come and see the World's Fair. It's unbelievable. Seattle is the most beautiful place. But he said, don't go see a show called Les Poupées de Paris because the women don't wear bras. Well, forget it. Did it boost the buzz?

I couldn't get, we couldn't get a friend in the theater for six months. That was the biggest attraction at the Seattle Film Fair. I love it. Yeah. Well, the follow-up to that story is the next week Time Magazine picked it up and said, think about it, a dirty puppet show.

That's why we sold out. Was Nixon in the audience? No. No, Nixon was in the audience here in L.A. when we opened was in the audience here in LA and we opened out in the city of

the Povida I'm not helping you I'm not helping you that was the first place like Poupée de Paris Nat Hart was the maitre d' at the Flamingo Hotel, and he said he was leaving Vegas,

and he was going to build a restaurant, theater, nightclub, and that's where Le Poupée de Paris started. Yeah, I should urge your fans, people who love your television shows, to find that album, and it's online. It's on Amazon. I mean, Pearl Bailey's great. She practically steals the record. Oh, well And it's online. It's on Amazon. I mean, Pearl Bailey's great.

She practically steals the record. Oh, well, here's something. Love is a boar. Love is a boar. It's great. Is Barbra Streisand's hit on her album People. Oh, I didn't know that. That's on People, yeah. Tell us about being picked up by the Dean Martin Show.

I know it only led to eight episodes. Well, what happened on the Dean Martin Show is I made a huge mistake. I asked Liberace, who had the biggest fan club in the world, to tell his fans to write in and say there should be more puppets. And so all these women from all over the world wrote in, and Dean got really upset and he fired us. Wow.

Because he got all this mail. I never heard that story before. Oh, bullshit. Right. What? I never heard that story before Oh bullshit What was Dino like to work with? I know he didn't rehearse famously Never Never We would rehearse all week long

And then I would tell him Hey Dean Stand on the left side Because all the puppeteers They were like I don't know I would tell him, hey, Dean, stand on the left side, because all the puppeteers that were like, I don't know, five, six, eight puppeteers in black, you know, that were crushed out on the screen. And it was very complex.

And if you said left, he would go to the right. So then, you know, he would do the opposite all the time to throw you right he never came to rehearse i'm sure yeah he was infamous for that yeah you did eight episodes of it and fired and i gotta jump backwards like we do on this show all the time. Because you mentioned Sid Caesar. And what was it like working with Sid Caesar? Oh, God, I loved him. I mean, come on.

He was the pro to end all pros. There aren't performers like that anymore. He did it all. He was invulnerable. He was on television. Nobody could do dialects like him. No, he had it all. He was the greatest pro ever

to work with. Did you enjoy working with him, Marty? Oh, yeah. He was great, but it didn't help. Anything we did with Pink Lady did not help. It sounds like you could have gotten

Julius Caesar wouldn't have helped Pink Lady. You're right. Jeff Altman, he was a trip. But I think he wound up

taking drugs after this show. He's still around, Jeff. We should get him on here and ask him his experience. I see him all the time. Do you? Yeah. So you guys had built your own shop by this point.

You were starting to build the factory. Let me see if I have the chronology right. When were you asked to design the characters and the sets for Banana Splits? Soon after you left Dean martin no no um in between all of that we were the creative heads of six flags and we had a puppet theater in every park uh that sat 1200 people and there were nine shows a day and um and we and they set up uh what we call the show business factory and in april after we would build everything for them we didn't want to let any of the people go we had over 250 the greatest craftsmen on the planet working for us so we opened our doors to everybody and that's when hannah bobera came in because in our puppet shows we always had a little person that we disguised as a marionette mixed with the puppets with strings

and the audience never knew that the press never knew it interesting yeah so so we knew how to build people in suits so this is what now 67 or 68 joe barbera approached you guys? Yeah, it was before Puffin stuff, right. 68. 68. Yeah. Banana splits always reminded me of sort of loosely being based on something like laughing or hell's a poppin'.

Hell's a poppin'. Yeah. I worked with Olsen and Johnson. You worked with Olsen and Johnson? Johnson, yeah. We opened in a show. It never came to Broadway. It was called Pardon Our Antenna.

And it was all about television. It was great. I love it. It was great. I worked with Charlie Chaplin. Did you? Yeah. No, I had dinner with him. Oh, you worked with Charlie Chaplin. Did you? Yeah. No, I had dinner with him.

Oh, you had dinner with Chaplin. Well, come on. Tell us about that, Marty. Well, Sid has to finish the banana split story. No, I... But I forgot what the question was. We'll get back to banana splits. Charlie Chaplin.

You finished it. Well, I went to... I was on a trip with my wife in Europe in the 60s. I was on a trip with my wife in Europe in the 60s, and I was with a producer and his wife, who was in a picture called The Fox, at the time she was well-known, invited us to dinner at Lausanne, Switzerland.

He said, I'm going to invite someone to dinner. Believe it or not, it was Charlie Chaplin. So he was interesting. But, of course, I stuck my foot in it. I said to the table, isn't it great living in Europe? You're 20 minutes from everything. And Charlie Chaplin says, you're right, including the Third World War. That's a funny line. And I heard a quote where you said the secret of your success was screwing with children's minds.

No, we never said that. Maybe Marty. Marty talks like that. I don't. Let me tell you, I definitely said that. Yeah, he said it. I don't talk like that. Because you know why?

Because we were screwing with their minds. That's why, no matter what Sid says, that's why they're still with us. I mean, these people walk down the street, and I can ask them to sing a theme song, and they're 45 years old, and they remember it. Yeah. Now, that's amazing to us. That's what really blows us away that they took it with them

all these years. Of course. All of our shows. You know, we did 26 titles that turned into series and 21 specials, and all of them were on network.

So it's not like we're all over the place now on cable. We are on Amazon and a couple of... I think Gilbert and I are two of those kids you're talking about who know specific episodes. We know the theme songs. And before Jurassic Park, you did Land of the Lost. Yeah. Land of the Lost.

Yeah. Yeah. And tell us about when you tried to build what was going to be the next Disney World. Ah, the world of Sid and Marty Croft. Sid and Marty Croft, yeah. Well, it was so amazing in Atlanta, but they promised us

the mayor of Atlanta that they were going to clean up downtown, and people were afraid to come downtown. And that was the Omni, which is now CNN. So the real bad part of the whole thing is

if you have something that fails, it goes away, and you never have to see it again. I watch CNN. I have to watch that park every day. As a matter of fact, my doctor was down in Atlanta last week, and i told him to go by the escalator we built this nine-story freestanding escalator is the entrance which cost about a million dollars

then so he gets on the escalator he says it's a tour that cnn gives it was all about sin marty croft 400 years later so you can't kill that with a baseball bat. No, it was amazing. You know, it had a pinball ride. You got in the pinball. A crystal mythological three-tiered carousel. State of the art. All crystal.

It was, you know, we painted everybody's face, and everybody working in there was a performer. So there were shows just for you. The world's first indoor amusement park. That's right. Yeah. And there was a giant hotel in it, and when you looked out your window,

you saw, saw like ice skating going on and everything. Yeah. Yeah. And that giant escalator. Right. We had a suite in the hotel called the World of Sid and Marty Croft Suite and Jimmy Carter and his kid and his wife had the suite the night they won

the election. They used our suite. Nice. Well we have a picture with him. That's not a real interesting story. He came... He's going to tell it, though. He came to our... a day before we opened and

all the Secret Service kept pushing him closer and closer to him in case there was somebody that was going to shoot him, we would have gotten shot first. Wow. I just want to ask you

how working for Hanna-Barbera gave you guys the motivation to do your own thing. Well, you know, it wasn't a motivation. Joe Barbera was sorry he ever asked us to do it because NBC came to me with Kellogg's,

and they said, why don't you do your own show next? So that's how we got into Puffin stuff next. And Kellogg's was on board. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, big time. So, you know, that was our first show, and then we wound up having about four shows at the same time, so we knocked off, you know we wound up having about four shows at the same time so we knocked off you know a number of the cartoons and you guys you guys were smart about me making

presentations because you made them visual you knew people wouldn't read just the written word oh yeah we still do that we go in with this big book with all the characters because nobody reads. And we make them sit around. Well, we can't fool them anymore, though. I have to tell you the truth. They'd like to read something. Okay. But we still do the visual. And didn't you work with Mick Jagger at one point?

No. No, Mick Jagger, we didn't work with him. The Buggaloos, Lionel Bart was a real good friend of mine because I was in a show in London for a year. And Lionel Bart, when we did The Buggaloos, came and helped us audition at, where were we auditioning? I was in there. I was in London alone.

No, I was. With 2,000 kids in line. No, you weren't. It wasn't that Puffin stuff with Lionel Bart? No. No. And Lionel Bart brought Mick Jagger when we picked the finals. I see.

Yeah, that was it. Well, tell us about pitching Puffin stuff, because this is the first time you guys went in there to pitch your own series. You know, there's one big problem with this interview. You guys know too much. You can never get out of here. We could pretend to know less, if you like. Research didn't like the name HR Puff and stuff.

I know that. No. No, they thought it was too feminine, powder puff. And when we handed in the rough cut, which they insisted upon, they hated it. And they gave us notes, 10 pages of notes. We didn't change one thing. We sweetened it, gave it back to them, and they said, oh, thank you so much.

It's wonderful. And so that's what happened. You were getting 10,000 letters a week about Puffin Stuff at one point? Oh, well, because Puffin Stuff at one point? Oh, well, because Puff and Stuff at the end of the show said Keep those letters and postcards coming in And, oh my God

We had a room up to the ceiling We've never answered one of them We didn't know what the hell to do Remind Gilbert and I not to send you guys any mail. No, we did. We finally did answer it. Yeah. Yeah.

And you guys wound up suing McDonald's over Mayor McCheese because of his resemblance to Puff and Stuff. Do we have that right, too? The most important thing of this interview is you two guys laughing that's the audience are you kidding mcdonald's well you know we ultimately did what the beverly hills lawyers told us not to do how could you sue mcdonald's but they you know they they had access ray crock had access right and we decided they ripped us off. Mayor McSheese was puffing stuff.

The Hamburglar was witchy poo. Yeah. And ultimately, 13 years later, it took 13 years to win the whole thing. I love it. We did. It's the number one case of copyright law in the world. It's in all the law books right now. Interesting. I'll tell you,

the one thing we're trying to figure out, maybe you can help us. We're told we have about 40 million fans dedicated. We're looking for a way to get a dollar from each one. How is that going to work? That shouldn't be too hard, Marty.

Jeez, you two guys like each other, don't you? We like you guys. You know, one of the interesting things about your show is, and we've talked, we've had people on here from cartoons. In those days, you know, Yogi Bear was Art Carney and Huckleberry Hound was Andy Griffith. And you,

well, they were homages, if you will. But you guys did the same thing. I mean, Dr. Blinky was Ed Wynn and Ludacris Lyon was a little bit of W.C. Fields. They were tributes to the comedians

you guys grew up with. Yeah, that's right. I hope you run out of things to know. Even Orson the Vulture was Frank Nelson. Right. Yes. So they were homages, right? I'll tell you the truth.

I have never, ever done an interview with two guys that know this much. We're scary. You know more than we do. I got to say, I mean, you know, I went back and watched some Puffin stuff prepping for the interview. And it's, I don't know, 40, 45 years later. You know, it's as bizarre and as original as it was then. And I'm looking at it in my 50s. You know, it's as bizarre and as original as it was then. It holds up, doesn't it? And I'm looking at it in my 50s, and I looked at it when I was a teenager,

and it's as original and as wild as it ever was. Well, one of the key parts of it, I had a very close friend who introduced me to his cousin, who was a producer, showrunner, writer. His name was Cy Rose. He did from McHale's Navy on. So he was kind of phasing out. I asked him to come and help us because I said, you know, we got an order for a series from Puff and Stuff.

I sent our assistant to the bookstore to get a book on how to produce the show because we never did it before but cyrose was a master at jokes and that's a very specialized field yeah and a lot of his stuff you know if you look at puff and stuff holes today because it's very hard to find the guy that can write those jokes oh yeah, I've got to tell you what we really wanted when we did Puffin Stuff. We didn't want

the adults to just shove their kids in front of the TV set. We wanted to capture mom or dad to watch it with them. So the jokes were very adult and if mom laughed or dad to watch it with them. So the jokes were very adult. And if mom laughed or dad laughed,

the kid would laugh, maybe didn't understand it. You know, nobody likes a smart door or all those, you know, goody two-shoes or all those little lines that were in Puffin's stuff. Well, we didn't know that we were producing a show that the adults, even the college kids or whatever. So I got a call one day from a manager here of the Beatles, and they wanted the kinescopes,

because at that time, you know, you didn't have all the technology we have today. So we would send them periodically the tapes of the shows. And what was your process? When you created a show like Puffin Stuff or Bugaloos, did the two of you just get in a room together and spitball ideas? Did it start with a concept? Did it start with an image?

Concept. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, we had, this wasn't just us. Walt Disney did not do all of his own stuff. Of course, of course. So we had some incredible young, we always believed in the young people with talent.

We didn't care about their credits and all that. Today, you can't get a writer approved unless they see what he's done. I said to Marty the other day, do you realize that we probably employed thousands, thousands of people? I'm sure. And what we get all the time to this day,

I mean, famous directors and choreographers and whatever come up to us and say, when I was a kid, I watched your shows, and I really credit you guys for wanting me to get into show business just the way when I saw The Wizard of Oz. I knew, you know, I had to do something. You know, now that I'm hearing all this, this is all the past, but this company, Croft, is still in action.

So I show up in this office that you're... And I'm at the gym. You know, he's at the gym. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, Marty. Do you still come in five days a week? Well, I come in for a few hours. Yeah, like 7.30 in the morning. Good for you.

Till 8 o'clock at night. Because he's got nothing else to do. We've done three series in the last two years. I've done five pilots. So we're in the action. One series, Mud and Stuff, which is with the 23 dogs. We've got 73 episodes in two years plus. We just finished two one-hour specials.

So, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff still going on. So there's still pain in my life. Was there talk of rebooting the Paris show? Well, actually, right now, the guy that keeps wanting to do it is David Arquette. David Arquette wants to find a, he has a club in town. He wants us to redo it. So I don't know.

We'll see what happens. I see. And what was it like working with Richard Pryor? Well, that was interesting. Richard Pryor was not easy, but very talented. And I guess the only thing I remember with him is he called me one day when I was mad at him and I went in his dressing room. He said, I want you to handle, I want to, I'm going to open up a black film company and I want to do a press conference.

So he said, I want you to work it out. I said, I'm not a press agent. He said, no, I want you to do it. So I hired my two guys to do it, and the lady from the New York Times asked him at this press moment, she said, why do you do this show for kids, Richard? Is it because you're trying to do something good with all the drugs you did and the kids you screwed the kids up he said no he said let me tell you why I did it he asked her do you know Marty Kroff she said no he said well if you knew him you'd say yes to him in a room

and get him the hell out that's a good answer but Richard was great he He was great. That was a real special time. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Tell us about somebody you work with a lot that I'll assume was easier to deal with, and that's the late great Billy Barty. Oh, he was great. Oh, I love Billy, yeah. Oh, he was great. Oh, I love Billy, yeah.

But when we did Puffin stuff, it was Billy Barty that knew we needed 30 some odd little people. And he reached out. We brought them from Germany. We brought them from all over the world because we didn't want little dwarfs. We wanted, you know, in those days, well, you call them now little people.

Yeah. And that is a story within itself, just dealing with 30 little people, you know, more than The Wizard of Oz had. Right. Did you know that the man sitting next to me lost a part to Billy Barty? Yeah. I went up for a Mel Brooks film, Life Stings,

and they said, we really want you for this part. And then at the last minute, I find out, no, they're not going with you. They're going with Billy Barty. Now, that's the funniest thing today. I wouldn't mind if I lost to George Clooney. Billy Barty had a lot of rage. Oh, God. Tell us about working with Charles Nelson Re Riley, too, on Lidsville.

Another guy we liked. Yeah, he was good, except I lied to him. To get him, I told him the makeup would take 20 minutes. It took three hours. And he said it was like a Polish, what did he say? I can't help you with that. Concentration camp or something. Oh, my God. Jeez. Lidsville. Like a Polish, what did he say? I can't help you with that. Concentration camp or something. Oh, my God.

Jeez. Lidsville. Oh, God. He complained all the time. He complained a lot? Yeah. Now, we got a very scary story. Is this about Butch?

Yeah. Butch Patrick, who played Eddie Munster on the Munsters. And he said he was being chased around. Oh, when he did Lidsville. By Charles Nelson Radley. He said Charles chased him around the set. Really? Really?

Yeah. I think he's... You sure he didn't mean Liberace? God, I don't remember that. Tell us something about the great Martha Ray. Oh, I loved Martha Ray. First of all, all of our villains were our stars. You know, Benita Bizarre was a great villain.

And, of course, in Puff and Stuff, was she poo? Yep. So, who'd do? Charles Nelson Reilly. What happened with Martha Ray, in the movie, the Puffin Stuff movie, we approached Betty Davis. Oh, you did? To play Boss Witch.

Wow. And Betty Davis, someone gave me her phone number in Connecticut. And she had an ad in the trades. She was looking for a job. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I got her on the phone, and she said,

I said, well, we're doing a movie at Universal. And she said, what's the part? And I said, Boss Witch. And she said, you want me to play a witch? Fuck you, and hung up. Oh, that was good. Oh, that was good. What a story.

That was a good one. Oh, that was good. What a story. And so I sent her a handwritten letter. I never heard back from her. But the little woman that's in CSI or one of those, who is that? I'm not. Oh, Linda Hunt. Linda Hunt. Yeah. She was another one that told me the four

letter word I offered her. She said, what do you want me to be? A mushroom? Gilbert would have been in the Sid and Marty show for scale. He would have been thrilled to be asked, believe me. Oh, my God. Yeah. What kind of character was Martha Ray?

I mean, her legend precedes her. Martha Ray. What do you mean by what kind of character? Yeah. I don't mean what kind of character. What kind of character was she in real life? The same way. Yeah, exactly.

She was Bonita Bizarre. Oh, yeah. But she was no trouble, though. Yeah. She was a pro. She came to work. Well, most of the talent are pros that way. A couple, you know.

I knew her when she had the club in Florida, her own club. in Florida, her own club. And the second choice we had after Betty Davis was the black comedian that was on television, Marty. Pearl Bailey? Huh? No. Oh, okay. You know who I'm talking about?

We called him. He wanted too much money. Who's that he played famous black comedian he played a character in drag who was that

Flip Wilson yeah sure Geraldine but he wanted I don't know a hundred thousand dollars or something. He was a huge star. And that's why we settled with Martha Ray. She was a friend of mine. And what did you do and what was it like working with a former podcast guest,

the great Bruce Stern? Oh, I loved him. Marty got Bruce. He was a friend of Marty's. Did you ever meet him, Sid? I'm only kidding. We had him on this show. He's a wonderful storyteller.

Oh, he's fabulous, yeah. No, he's a pro. Yeah, he really is. He's out of his mind. A little bit. No. But we gave, actually I gave, I was in Dallas shooting in Middle Age Crazy, the movie. Yeah, good movie.

We did with him, with Ann-Margaret. Ann-Margaret, yeah. So his daughter, Laura Dern, was about 15. I gave her her first shot as a Dallas cowgirl. We shot it in the stadium. But Bruce was, you know, a major talent. Did you guys do, this is something interesting,

did you do a live show at the Hollywood Bowl? The World of Sid and Marty? With the Brady bunch. With the Brady kids and the Puffin Stuff cast and Billy Barty. And Billy Barty, yeah. What was that experience like? That was good. That was good.

That was good. It came off without a hitch, did it? You know what it is? Before Marty joined me, I did a night with my act, Johnny Green and the Symphony Orchestra at the Hollywood Bowl. So that was the second time we were there. And speaking of the Brady cast, I saw an interview with you, Marty, and you were talking about the stage mom, the Osmonds' mother.

I did? Yeah, you were saying that she would say, you would say, can they skate? And she'd say, how much time do you need? No. Can they juggle? We're talking about Donny and Marie. Donny and Marie.

By the way, another one just came into my life, the nephew. David Osmond. He actually is talented. I wrote a talk show for them. They were very nice to me. He's doing a show called Wonderama, which was an old show. Oh, sure.

They're doing it again. We had Sonny Fox, the original host of Wonderama, here on the podcast. Really? He's going strong in his 90s. And what was it like working with Donny and Marie? And Bruce Valanche was a writer on that show. Yeah, yeah. You know what?

Let me ask you. Do you guys ever get tired? Marty, we have no lives. Let me tell you. I'm out of steam. I got no more jokes on the paper. We'll wrap it up in five minutes. Oh, my God.

Tell us about the Donnie and Marie show. What about it? What do you remember about Donnie and Marie? I'll tell you what I remember. I told Marie last week at the Emmys. She was being interviewed. I went up to her. I hadn't seen her in a long time.

I said, do you know how much money you owe me? And then she says to me, no, no, no. You owe me money. That's an actor. Really? But you know what?

They're doing good. I don't know how much they get in Vegas, but they're like... Oh, they're out there. They're four-walling. Four-walling. They're billionaires. They sell out every show.

Yep. You guys, I have to give you credit. You've survived every other company in kids' TV. Hanna-Barbera, Filmation. You're the last of the Mohicans. No, we survived this show. You're still going strong. Are you kidding?

And like the old expression, everything old is new again. You got it. Aren't they remaking so many of your old shows now? Well, they made Land of the Lost into a feature. Yeah. I have to tell you, we made that and failed. Because you lost control over a $200 million movie. So that wound up being a Will Ferrell sketch.

But you know what? We made the picture. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do a series with Landon Lost. I'm out there now trying to figure out how to do it. And with that, I have Akiva Goldsman. You know that? Oh, sure. Yeah, wrote many

screenplays. A Beautiful Mind. Yeah, sure. He just produced Star Trek. And we've got Jeff Pinkner. And he did Lost. He did Spider-Man and Jumanji. So we got some good people. Today, you got to have the writers.

That's the number one thing. Oh, absolutely. What do you guys look back on? I mean, when you look back at your body of work, are there one or two things that you're particularly proud of that you'd like to sit and watch again? I mean, I don't mean just for nostalgic purposes, but just to put it on.

It's always your first show is your baby. Puffin stuff is my favorite. And, of course, they all, you know. Mine is Laurel and Hardy. Sons of the Desert. And what was it like working with... Puffin stuff, you know, being your first show. Look, that's it.

Sid said it. Your first show, you know, you go back to, and I think we were lucky enough to have the talent and the support people to make that show legendary. Do you want to hear my Jimmy Hoffa story? Yeah. That's a fun one. Do you have one?

You know what? You have to pay for that one. Why aren't you guys writing a memoir or doing your life stories? I don't have the time. You don't have the time. You're too busy. You know, we lost Chuck McCann recently.

Oh, nice to see him. I saw him at Comic Con. Yeah, sweet guy. We loved him and you guys did a series with him. Any quick stories about Chuck

before we let you run off? you know, I saw, I'm at CBS every day so there's a restaurant across the street called Jinkies and he's there every day at lunch. He's restaurant across the street called Jinky's.

And he's there every day at lunch. He's sitting at the bar. Doesn't drink. I mean, that's where he has his lunch. So I used to see him all the time just recently.

That's too bad. That was a big loss. Yeah, we love him. And any quick stories about him, about working with him? Well,

the only thing that I know is he was always pissed off that I never released the I know Far Out Space Nuts He was always pissed off that I never released the DVD on Far Out Space Nuts You know That was his big complaint

Thank you guys for doing this Oh God, thank you for having us on I hope you have a big pair of scissors So, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to two guys who are busy than ever and still deny rampant drug use. Sid and Marty Kroff. Guys, we thank you for making

our childhood special. You're both national treasures. We appreciate it. Thanks. You guys were great. Someone who will take the time to listen to your prayers. I got, you got, everybody do got someone who cares by the name of HR Pumping Stuff. Where'd you go when things get rough? HR Pumping Stuff. You can't do a little Cause you can't do enough I got you, got everybody, you got Someone who cares by the name of

Ain't your pumping stuff Where'd you go when things get rough? Ain't your pumping stuff Well, you can't do a little Cause you can't do enough It's your puff and stuff. Where'd you go when things get rough? It's your puff and stuff. Well, you can't do it. Of course, you can't do enough. See you next week. I sure hope so. Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by

Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Fertorosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fotiadis, and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance.