Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 22. Bela Lugosi Jr. & Sara Karloff

Episode Date: October 27, 2014

This week on "Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast," "Son of Dracula" BELA LUGOSI, JR. reminisces about visiting the set of "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein" and points out what the film "Ed Wood" got wrong about his famous dad. PLUS: Karloff dances on "The Red Skelton Show"! Lugosi passes up the role of a lifetime! Sara meets the "Son of Gilbert"! And Bela Jr. takes a stand for The Three Stooges! Next, we get into the Halloween spirit by celebrating the lives of two of the screen's greatest horror icons, Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi. First, "Frankenstein's Daughter" SARA KARLOFF looks back on her father's most indelible and unforgettable roles, from The Monster to The Mummy to The Grinch, and tells us why her father always referred to this time of year as his "busy season." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. I'm Dave, and saving with TD Insurance made me feel like I scored my own jingle. With over 30 ways to save, nobody seems like Dave. Save on home and auto like only you can at tdinsurance.com slash ways to save.

TD. Ready for you. Today's show is brought to you by GoDaddy.com. Visit GoDaddy.com and enter promo code Gilbert149 to get your $1.49.com today. Go Daddy! It's go time! Listen to them, children of the night, what music they make. That, of course, was a line that Bela Lugosi said in Dracula. Dracula. When I was a little boy, on TV, they used to have all the old movies. That one station would have the gangster movies, the other one would have the monster movies. And I fell in love

with the monster movies. When I was a kid, I used to like walk around with like a blanket around me. And just, I knew the entire Dracula film. It's like, To die, to be really dead, must be glorious. There are far worse things of any man than death. So it's so much. Anyone who's ever heard me on the Howard Stern show, Howard always asks me to do my Bela Gossi imitation, and they call me Dracula Gottfried on the show

because of my love for Gossi and for Boris Karloff. love for Lugosi and for Boris Karloff. And, you know, I, sadly, I can't talk to Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi, but I got in touch with their kids, who are a little older than just kids, but they were willing to talk to me. I spoke to Bela Lugosi Jr., the real son of Dracula, and Frankenstein's daughter, Boris Karloff's daughter, Sarah Karloff. And I called her up and I said, it's Gilbert Gottfried. Would you be on my podcast? And she said, I'd love to be on your podcast. Nothing would get me more excited. I'd be so thrilled to be on your podcast. So today we speak to Bay Lelagosy Jr. and Sarah Kohlhoff on Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

Colossal Podcast. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my sidekick, Frank Sancho Prodre. I'm just learning to pronounce his name. Episode 8. Yes. One day I'll learn it. One day. And this is the Amazing Colossal Podcast. the amazing, colossal podcast. And this is, anyone who knows me from the Howard Stern Show knows that how many times I've imitated Bela Lugosi as Dracula on this show,

where they start calling me Dracula Gottfried. On Hollywood Squares for their Halloween special. They had me total Dracula makeup. And so that's why it's such a treat for someone who is a horror kid like myself to be talking to this next man, Bela Lugosi Jr. Bela's son. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Gilbert. Now, I have to tell you, as a kid who used to stay up at night and sit an inch from the TV so I wouldn't wake my parents up when I was watching Dracula

late at night and movies like that that I got an email from you that said, Dear Gilbert give me a call thank you Bela Lugosi and I thought

boy, when I was a kid to have thought I'd get a letter like that. That was just amazing. Well, I get that every once in a while. And I wanted to ask you, too, you're like, first of all, the idea of having such an iconic name, First of all, the idea of having such an iconic name. And so, number one, your whole life you must have had people doing Lugosi imitations to you.

Right. And to make matters worse, you became a lawyer, which lawyers are always called bloodsuckers. So that must have added more ammunition. So what was it like growing up with that name well you know uh when you're a school-age kid you like to blend in with the lockers and so my name was giving me too much attention, so I actually started going by Bill instead of Bela, thinking that would help, but it didn't. People have recognized that name every day through today. It happens all the time. It's a funny thing because, I mean, Lon Chaney Jr.,

he changed it to Lon Chaney Jr. from Crichton Chaney, but he regretted being Lon Chaney Jr. his entire life. He regretted the name. So was it like that for you? Did it, at times? No, because I didn't try to follow in his footsteps. I did something so totally different than what he did. I never tried to trade off my name as far as the law business goes.

People took me seriously just because of my profession. And had I tried to go into acting, that would have caused the problem. Yeah, I can imagine. How old were you, Bela, before the realization of who your dad was really began to dawn on you, began to sink in? I mean, obviously, as a little child, you wouldn't. Yeah, grade school, actually. And how so? Was it because your dad exposed you to the films, or was it that you learned about it from your schoolmates?

Yeah, you know, the word would go around that that's Bela Lugosi's son. Now, you were on the set of a few of his movies when you were a child. Do you remember anything about that? Well, I know I was on the set of a film when I was less than a year old because I've seen pictures, but I have no memory of it. But anyway, the one I remember is that when Costello meets Frankenstein, I was 10 years old. And I remember is Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. I was 10 years old. And I remember that very well.

What recollections do you have on that movie? That's one of my favorites. Well, a number of them. For one thing, you know, Dad could do a scene in one take. But other people on the scene would require, you know, five, ten, fifteen takes before they'd get it right. And that's because Dad prepared so much, you know, for his role. He was a real confident professional. I also remember the respect

he got on the set, everywhere from the grips to the other actors. And then I remember coffee break times when people would get from the cart some tea or some other beverage. I'd go there with Lon Chaney Jr. made up as the wolf man and Glenn Strange as Frankenstein. They were both very nice to me. I remember that. And then I also remember the female lead.

I thought she was beautiful. Lenore. I forgot her last name. Oh, God. Now I have a block on that. Now, that brings me to Lon Chaney Jr.

He was nice to you. Oh, yes. And because he has this reputation for alcoholism and being an angry drunk. A lot of people had bad feelings about him. Well, I just had that limited exposure. I think Chaney Jr. liked kids. I think he felt comfortable around kids.

Yeah, I get that impression from his grandson. And now that brings up another subject that you, his grandchildren, and Sarah Karloff, Boris Karloff's daughter, you help them, I guess, get the rights to their parents' and grandparents' names. Yeah, there was a lawsuit that I brought in the 60s against Universal. The case was called Lugosi v. Universal. And Universal at the time was licensing, quote, Dracula, unquote, but the pictures that they would give to the licensee

was of my dad. And they did this without any permission or compensation to me. And so that's what the lawsuit started out to be about, but it ended up being about whether or not the rights to your name and likeness for commercial purposes continued on as a property right after your death. on as a property right after your death. And ultimately the court found that it did not, but then there's an effort in the California legislature to reverse that portion of the Supreme Court decision, which they did.

And they declared, the legislature declared that this was a property right, and they declared, the legislature declared, that this was a property right, and they provided a whole system for enforcing those rights. Well, I remember years ago, they, I mean, the idea of a Bela Lugosi imitation or a Peter Lorre imitation in a commercial were just open, like anybody could do it without... No, that's not true. Yeah, but years ago... Anymore. Yeah, now.

You changed it. But years ago it used to be like anybody could do a celebrity impersonation in a commercial. Oh, yeah. It's always ripped off. That's true. Wasn't the catalyst for this, Bela, that somebody brought you a model kit?

Yes, exactly. The old Aurora model kit. I know them well. Yeah. And you realized that it wasn't just Dracula. They were using the name Dracula, but what? They were using your pop's likeness. Oh, yeah, clearly.

And you wound up representing, tell us about how you wound up representing some of the heirs of the Three Stooges. Oh, there was a lawsuit among the heirs of the Three Stooges involving the accounting for monies and who owned the rights. And I participated in the trial of that action where we were successful on my clients. And then I went into the business with them of exporting the rights to the Three Stooges,

which I did for a number of years. Which is amazing to me. Bela Lugosi representing the Three Stooges. It's very strange. Well, they never were in a film together. Now, another thing I was always curious about, a lot was always made about that Lugosi and Boris Karloff hated each other and had a feud going.

I never heard that from my parents. I never saw that. So this was something kind of maybe made up by the studio. I think so. Was the studio promoting that idea because they were usually depicted as enemies in their films, do you think, Bela? You know, I don't know, but I've seen little trailers and snippets where the two of them are, for example, enjoying each other's company playing chess or things like that, which would be the exact opposite. things like that, which would be the exact opposite. But I don't think there's any truth to that, not to my knowledge, anyway.

I remember seeing photos of you as a little child standing between Boris Karloff's legs as the Frankenstein monster. That's right. That was on the set. So I remember I told you there was a movie. Son of Frankenstein monster. That's right. That was on the set. So I remember I told you there was a movie where I was on the set. That was it. Oh, there you go. Which your father gave this performance

that people forget about how varied his talent was that he was Igor that was totally different than Dracula. Yeah, he really made that film with that portrayal. And he enjoyed it, by the way. Later years, he always talked about

he liked the opportunity to do a little comedy. It's a very unsettling performance. It's a wonderful performance. Yeah, yeah. It's, you can't... Oh, go ahead. Well, you know, he's a good actor. Yeah, yeah. It's you... Oh, go ahead. Well, you know, he's a good actor, so let's see. Yeah, because part of the fun of watching both Son of Frankenstein and Ghost of Frankenstein

is that he looks like he's having fun. Yeah. A little twinkle in the eye. Oh, yes. I was asking this about, asking Gilbert this before we

sat down, Bale. I was talking about films like The Black Cat and The Raven and, you know, how campy

some of those films were. And I said to Gilbert, I wonder if Bale or Lugosi, you know, if he had that

twinkle in his eye, if he had an appreciation for the absurdity, the dialogue in The Black Cat comes to mind that Gilbert and I were just talking about. Supernatural, perhaps baloney, perhaps not. He must have known.

It's such a wonderful line. It's a wonderful spooky film, but I always watch that film every chance I get. I always wondered, did he have some sort of sense of the absurdity of what he was saying? I think so. He had a sense of humor. Did he know that he had his tongue in his cheek when he was doing it? There was a big age difference between me and him, and so we never had a discussion like that.

That would be a grown-up discussion what was the age difference 56 years wow what was legosi and i'm i realize i'm cold i should say your dad legosi is getting confusing because both of you are. What was Bela Lugosi like as a father? He was a good father. He was always trying to impart to me the wisdom that he had acquired over the

years. He took an interest in showing me and teaching me things. And he was very, very generous. As a husband, though, I guess is where he got in trouble. It's like he was like, he was married, I think, five times. Yeah, a number.

Yeah. He was married to my mother for over 20 years. Wow. I had no idea it was that long. Yeah. So then that must have been a pretty successful marriage then. Yeah. Wow, that I didn't know. Let's talk a little bit about Dracula and about how he was...

How many performances did he do? 261 performances, according to what I found online, on Broadway? Yeah. Before Broadway? Yeah. Before touring? Yes. And is it true? I mean, I said there's some dispute about this, about whether or not the studio wanted, Universal wanted Lon Chaney for the part.

Oh, that's what I've always heard. And that when, you know, he had a terminal illness, they had to pick somebody else, and so Dad was not the first choice. I heard it went so far as, I don't know if it was Lemley, it may have been Carl Lemley himself, head of Universal,

who even sent out a telegram that said, no Beto Lugosi. And it's so odd to think of it now, because to me, I mean to anyone, it's like, I say in 2,000 years from now, if you say to someone, do a Dracula imitation, they're going to do a Bela Lugosi imitation. Exactly. That's exactly right.

That's true. I was reading that they went out to actors like Paul Muni and Conrad Veidt. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, I don't either. Well, don't forget, I wasn't born until 1938. Right. He certainly made the part his own, didn't he?

Certainly did. You know, it's funny. They talk about, I remember when Frank Langella played the part of Dracula on Broadway, and I remember at the time people making a big deal out of it, that it was the first time that the character had sexuality. But your

father's Dracula was always seemed sexual, always seemed smoldering. I remember seeing an interview with your father where he said he got loads of letters from women wanting to get bitten by him. Yeah, I've heard that interview. It's funny, and that's another reason that I like Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein, is because after Dracula,

it's like they had other actors playing Dracula. Like John Carradine and such, yeah. Yeah, John Carradine, who I'm a big fan of, but he just wasn't Bela Lugosi in the part. Well, you know, that's like watching the Spanish version, which they filmed on the same set except at night. Yes. And people say that there's a lot of qualities of that film

that are better than the universal Dracula that starred my dad, except when you look at it, thing is missing and that's the male lead it just it wasn't dad and it just didn't carry itself it's like when I watch they had like House of Frankenstein and House of Dracula where they brought all the monsters together and John Carradine's Dracula who I'm a fan of but it's like every time I see those movies I think boy imagine if Bela Lugosi had been doing Dracula here yeah yeah and and Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein had the sense to bring him back. Yeah, I just saw it this last weekend, as a matter of fact. Oh, yeah? Still holds up.

Yeah. Holds up so well, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And it's a comedy that's respectful of the monsters. Yeah, and you know, when I go out in the public, make appearances and whatnot, that's almost the most talked- about subject with me is that film. So it's really popular with the fans.

And how did you get along with Abbott and Costello? Well, they didn't have anything to do with me. I guess that answers the question. Yeah. Baylor, what was the real reason, and maybe it was several reasons, that your dad turned down the part of the Frankenstein monster? Because I read somewhere that he didn't want any part of the makeup, that it was the lack of dialogue in the script.

What do you attribute it to? It's the latter, is what he told me. But, you know, it was a dumb role. A role he wouldn't play years later. Stranger Things. Yeah. And it's like, for people unfamiliar with it, he kind of got, you know,

he was attacked for giving a bad performance as the monster, but he kind of was screwed in the part because in the previous film, that was Ghost of Frankenstein, where Lon Chaney Jr. was the monster, and he gets Igor's brain in his body, which is a great scene of Lon Chaney Jr. talking as the monster, and your father's voice coming out going, I am Igor. And then it's found out that the brain,

the blood type is different, and he's blind. Oh, that's right. He was blind. So he had to stumble around. So in the next movie, he was supposed to be blind during the whole part, first part of the film. And that's where the Frankenstein walk that everyone knows comes from. That's what's imitated.

Yeah, they imitate your father's walk because he was supposed to be blind and that's why his arms were outstretched. Right. But then at the last minute, the studio decided to change the fact that he was blind. So a lot of what your father was doing looks strange now. Because he was doing a blind man. And did he take the part the second time in part, Bela, because he had so famously turned it down

and thought he had made a mistake? Did that factor into his thinking, you think? It may have just been to work. That's what actors desperately want to do. And a lot of people I mean like a younger generation of people who aren't familiar with old horror films their knowledge of Lugosi would be from Ed Wood yeah that's at the end of his life

but what did you think of the movie, Ed Wood? Well, it had a lot of inaccuracies, which were pejorative. Martin Landau didn't write the script, but he did a wonderful job researching and portraying my dad at the end of his life. He did a good job of that. But no, the film itself had a lot of bad things that were wrong. Do you remember any in particular? There's some very simple ones.

One is he had German shepherds and dobermans, but they depict him as having these little lap dogs. And they depicted him as swearing all the time, but he didn't swear. Things like that. Interesting. Sleeping in his outfit, Dracula outfit. depicted him as swearing all the time but he didn't swear. Things like that. Sleeping in his outfit, Dracula outfit. He didn't do that.

He was supposed to have been of what I heard, very dignified. Yes, he was. Was he also though very old school and as far as being, he was dignified, but could he be, like, cold to people? Well, sure.

You know, he could play any part you want. Did Landau ever reach out to you at any point, Baylor? Did he ever consult you about the part? Oh, no, no, no consulting. After the fact. Uh-huh. We got together. Oh, really? Yeah. Had a good relationship. Oh, no, no, no consulting. After the fact, we got together. Oh, really?

Yeah, had a good relationship. Oh, good. I mean, it must have been a little strange seeing someone winning an Oscar for playing your father. I know it was. But, you know, he's a very humble guy. but Landau did say that he felt the accomplishment of getting the Academy Award that he was winning it for

Bela Lugosi that was very nice so I have to wrap it up now if you're in a good place yeah that was a lot of information Bela, thank you thank you and if we can ever have you back, I'd love to have you back. Yeah, maybe one day.

Hello, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Now, I remember when I was a little kid in Brooklyn, I would be, I'd watch my little black and white TV. I'd sit in front of it. I'd be, you know, I didn't want to wake my parents up because the monster movies would come on late at night. And I remember watching movies like Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, Son of Frankenstein, and The Mummy, and House of Frankenstein, and all starring Boris Karloff, who is one of the greats of horror actors, and one of the great actors of old Hollywood. And I figure I couldn't get Boris Karloff for this for obvious reasons,

so I got the next best thing. Boris's pride and joy, his daughter, Sarah Karloff. Welcome to the show, Sarah. Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be on your show. Nice to meet you, Sarah. Thank you. Nice to meet you so much. I'm delighted to be on your show. Nice to meet you, Sarah. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Frank. Now, everybody knows Boris Karloff as a very sinister, evil person in all the movies, but what was he like as a father?

He was a delightful father and a delightful human being. He could not have been more different from the roles he played. delightful human being. He could not have been more different from the roles he played. He was just gentle, soft-spoken, had a lovely sense of humor. He was a typical English gentleman. Actually, the roles he played, he was not really evil. He was really very often caught in the dilemma, not of his own making. Now, he was also also like he liked children. And children liked him. He told me once that that children were not afraid of the creature that they seemed to understand that the creature was the victim and not the perpetrator and that it

was adults who were frightened more so than children of the creature well with frankenstein it was always like frankenstein was basically a big kid and uh it was just every so kids identified he was like someone alone in the world and he didn't have any friends, and that's all he wanted was to fit in. Correct. Correct. And now, also, something I always have to ask is, Boris Karloff always acted with Bela Lugosi early on, and there was a lot made out of them having a feud going. Was there ever any feud?

Well, they made seven films together, but there certainly was no feud. That was Hollywood hype, I think, to help box office draw. They had a great deal of professional respect for one another, but Bela, being being Hungarian had his own personal interests, and my father being British had his own personal interests, but there was no personal animosity between them, and there was a great deal of professional respect between them. Did you ever meet Lugosi? No, I know his son Bela Jr. very well. We're good friends, but I never had the opportunity to meet his father. Yeah, I know, because Bela Gossi Jr. is a lawyer who fought so that you and the Cheneys and other people like that can get rights to their father's likenesses.

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And no one expected the film to be the huge success that it was. And certainly no one expected the creature to be the star of the film. They really anticipated that Colin Clive, who played Dr. Frankenstein, would be the star of the film. My father wasn't even invited to the premiere. So there was certainly not, he certainly was not in a position to insist upon a tea break. He was third billed, wasn't he, Sarah? He wasn't billed. Oh, he wasn't billed.

He was in, if you watch the movie. He was, it was just a question mark. Oh, the question mark has the monster marks. You're right, you're right. Yeah, yeah. But by the second movie, that's Karloff. That's correct. And then in the end running credits, his name is opposite the creature.

But in the opening credits, it's just a question mark. But keep in mind, he wasn't even invited to the premiere. And you said he'd been a starving actor for two decades by the time Frankenstein came around. That's right. He was an overnight success after 20 years in the business. I remember, I think he was in Scarface, the original movie. Yes, the shot in the bowling alley. Yes.

Yes. Yes. As I say, Frankenstein was his 81st film, and he was 44 years old. And Bela Lugosi had turned down the role. The role would have gone to Cheney Sr. had he not, unfortunately, died prematurely. Now, is it true that Karloff was discovered in the commissary? true that Karloff was discovered in the commissary? Well, he was spoken to by James Whale and asked to test for the role after Baylor turned it down. I read a story that's something to the effect that James Whale saw him in the commissary and liked the shape of his head.

Is that a myth? Well, I've heard that he said to my father, you have an interesting face, Mr. DeCarloff. I see. And Gilbert and I were wondering, was it because, to your knowledge, that Lugosi turned down the part because he didn't want to go through the makeup tests? Or because there was a disastrous screen test? He did not want to perform under all that makeup. And he didn't want to do a non-speaking role.

Now, also, I love the Grinch that stole Christmas. The Grinch That Stole Christmas. That's one of the very few times that my father called me and my children and said he had done something that he just thought was delightful, just magical. And he hoped that my two sons would sit down that evening and watch it because it was absolutely an enchanting, just an enchanting program. And he hoped I'd have an opportunity to watch it that night. And I mean, my, you know, my father never brought his work home. He seldom talked about his work. He never talked about other actors, but he was so enchanted with, with how the Grinch stole Christmas that he called me and I was living in Arizona at the time, and he called me and specifically thought it was something that my kids and I would love sitting down and watching together.

And he was absolutely right. Did he win a Grammy for the performance, sir? Yes, he did. Uh-huh, he did. But he was in England during, he was in England at the time of the Grammy Awards, and so his agent, Arthur Kennard, went and accepted it for him. And then the next time my father came over to this country, and he went to his agent's office, and Arthur said, Boris, here's your Grammy. And my father, who was not into awards, looked at it and said,

looks like a bloody doorstop, and took it and put it down on the ground, on the floor by his agent's door, and left it there. Now, there was a major hit song out years ago called The Monster Mash. Yeah, Bobby Boris Pickett did it. Yes. Now, how did your father feel about his voice being imitated in that song? He felt as well he should, that it was a lovely compliment, and the song itself was great fun. Now, he was friends also with, well, Vincent Price. Yes, they were great friends.

Vincent, of course, was a great intellect and an avid reader and, of course, a great art aficionado. And he and my father had a lot of things in common, and they were very fond of each other. Of course, they had worked together several times. And I think, well, also Peter Laurie he was friends with. Yes, they had also worked together several times. And I think the three of them all had a very healthy sense of humor about the parts they played. Well, I think they were certainly consummate professionals and had a sense of humor about their genre in which they performed.

I know that on the set of Comedy of Terrors and the remake of The Raven, they drove Roger Corman crazy playing practical jokes on one another. Sarah, I want to go back a little bit. Where did the name, because your father was obviously born William Henry Pratt, there's some mystery about where the name Boris Karloff came from. I mean, he never legally changed his name. No, he never did. And there still is a mystery. Two years ago, an outstanding, definitively researched book called Boris Karloff, More Than a Monster, written by a British author, Stephen Jacobs, who spent 10 years researching before the book was published, has never been able to come up with a name even vaguely resembling Karloff on either side of the family.

So no one knows where it came from? I don't know where it came from. No, I don't know where it came from. Maybe my father did. The answer he always gave in interviews was that it came way back on his mother's side of the family, and Boris simply came from thin air. Interesting. I remember a story as far as the sense of humor your father had.

Sometimes he would see the comedy in what he did. Sometimes. And it's like in one horror movie they said they were filming his close-up. And it was supposed to be a really chilling scene. And Karloff turned to the camera and just yelled, boo. Oh, yeah, that was in Targets, I think. Yes. That's a wonderful picture.

Can you tell us anything about Targets? Oh, that's my favorite picture. That's my favorite film. I think that Roger Corman had 10 minutes left of Karloff time and from a previous film or contract. And he assigned the task to Peter Bogdanovich to create a vehicle to use time. And Peter had never done such a thing before. Well, Peter not only wrote, but he directed and he acted in Target. And in the film Target, my father plays an aging horror screen star, brilliant casting. And it

wasn't literally the last film my father made, but it certainly was the last film of merit, and it had great merit. The film is about a sniper, and unfortunately, it was released to the theaters at the time of the Bob Kennedy and Martin Luther King assassinations. So it was pulled prematurely from the theaters. But it is available on DVD now. My father has a monologue in the film, and he did it in one take, and the whole cast and crew stood up and applauded,

which brought tears to my father's eyes because it was essentially a wonderful exit line film for my father. It's a great performance. Yeah, it is a wonderful performance. It's a wonderful story and film and well shot and well performed by Peter and the whole cast. And it's a film he delighted in doing. full cast, and it's a film he delighted in doing. He admired Peter's creativity and talent and energy,

and the film ran in excess of ten minutes of screen time of Karloff, and I believe my father donated the balance of his time to the film because he admired Peter's work so much. It's a great picture. It's one of, if not my favorite film. Do you like the Luden pictures, too? The Val Luden pictures? Yes, very much. I love The Body Snatcher.

It's great. Yeah, I love The Body Snatcher. And Bedlam, of course, is about a real asylum and really depicts the horrors that went on in an asylum at that time. the horrors that went on in an asylum at that time. And Isle of the Dead is a horrible, wonderful film. And everything Lewton did was so atmospheric, and shooting it in black, all those films in black and white, just added so much value to those films.

Did your father ever speak about the very horrible, like, long hours of makeup he had to put up with in those horror films? Well, he often talked about Jack Pierce being a makeup genius. And he and Jack worked together on, I think, 13 films. And, of course, the makeup for Frankenstein took four hours in the morning and three hours at night, and the art of exact duplication for the camera, which does not lie,

it was, of course, spoke to Jack's genius and the patience of both Jack and my father each and every day. But the makeup was lead-based, and they used no prosthetics. They used, you know, it had to be built up every day, layer upon layer, for exact duplication for the camera. The mummy was almost as difficult a makeup for the role of Imhotep and took almost as long to apply.

And one day my father had a 19-hour day from start to finish. But when they finished applying the makeup which had to be layer after layer of cotton and collodium and moisture and drying each layer with a hair dryer and and then more of the same and more of the same to reach the desired look for the mummy and then when they finished applying getting all the wrapping done my father pointed pointed out to them that they'd failed to include a fly. Oh, hilarious. That's hilarious. And the shoes were heavy, too, weren't they?

They had to make some adjustments, since it was going to be such a hideously long day. Do you know, that's a question I used to always wonder watching some of those horror films, especially the mummy, like how they went to the bathroom. Well, now you know. And Sarah, getting back to the Frankenstein makeup, the shoes, did I read that the shoes were 11 pounds? They weighed something like that, I think 13 pounds. And they were plaster boots. Wow. And they only elevated his height by about, not quite two inches, but it was all due to camera angle and shortening of the sleeves and the jacket. And as if he wasn't schlepping enough around with the costume, he had to carry Colin Clive, correct? Several times.

Up the back hill and drag him up the ladder in the tower. And that's what ruined my father's back. He already had a bad back, but that's what ruined his back permanently. Oh, yeah. And there was take after take after take. Now, your father, as well as so many actors of that time period, were very mistreated by the studio. They were taken advantage of. And so your father was actually one of the main forces of developing Screen Actors Guild, I think.

My father was one of the 12 founding members of the Screen Actors Guild. His card number was number 9. And he felt very passionate about his work as a founding member, although he was very quiet about it, quietly proud of it. But it was very dangerous work for those actors. They were putting their careers on line, and they ran the danger of never working again because they were forming a union in opposition to the studios and the studio bosses and the directors and producers that they might never work again.

and the directors and producers, that they might never work again. And my mother told me this story one time, that they would go to parties and park their cars blocks away from one another's houses when they'd have meetings, and they'd walk to the meetings, and then they'd go to parties, and they'd dance by one another on the dance floor and whisper, meeting Tuesday night at so-and-so's house and dance on by. I mean, it was extraordinarily hazardous to their job, to their profession. But it was remarkable. It was founded, SAG was founded in 1933, and my father remained on the board until into the mid to late 40s.

Yeah, I think your father and James Cagney and a bunch of others. Ralph Morgan, Lucille and Jimmy Gleeson, yeah. Wasn't Bela an early member as well? He was an early member, but not a founding member. I see. I want to ask a question that I think most people would probably ask you many times. I mean, as the daughter of the man who played Frankenstein, I mean, at what age did you realize this? I mean, I read somewhere that you saw it the first time on television as well, the monster.

At what age did you become aware that your dad was famous and that he was this iconic character? At what age did you become aware that your dad was famous and that he was this iconic character? Well, you know, as I say, my father didn't bring his work home. He was very modest and self-effacing, very humorous. It was very interesting to ride in a car with him and stop at a stoplight. It was very interesting to ride in an elevator with him because people just didn't know whether or not to mind their manners or to take advantage of the captive situation. But by and large, they minded their manners and there was a lot of body language going on in the elevator. Turned around, everybody was pointing and saying, that's Boris Karloff, that's Boris Karloff. But growing up, you know, he was my father.

And he would be the first one to say, a plumber probably couldn't act, and I bloody well couldn't fix a sink. You know, it was his job. And that really was his attitude. Back then, the press was less invasive. There was Hedda Hopper and Luella Parsons, and they ran the Hollywood media, period. And so, you know, the children didn't read the magazines, etc. And a famous last name wasn't a big deal in Hollywood or Beverly Hills.

Later, when I moved to San Francisco, a famous Hollywood name stuck out like a sore thumb. So you had to learn to cast your own shadow. Then it became a different matter. Then it became a different matter, but my father didn't carry his name on his shoulder, so his family didn't. I see. I heard a story that, I don't know if you know anything about this, I heard that Frank Sinatra once ran into Boris Karloff at a restaurant and they started talking and Boris Karloff said to Sinatra who had just started getting more and more into acting at that point

your father said you know how to sing with your voice you have to learn how to act with your voice also and that your father was giving Frank Sinatra acting lessons. Frank Jr. and I are good friends, and Frank tells me that's true. Great story. So Frank Sinatra learned acting from Boris Karloff. Well, I'm not saying he learned acting.

I'm not saying he learned acting. I'm not saying he learned acting, but I'm telling you that Frank Jr. tells me that Frank Sr. told him that my father coached him. Wow. Good stuff. Yeah. Now, do you know...

And I'm told also that Chris... Who is it? Nicholson, I think, marks his scripts like my father did. Oh, because, well, they acted together for Corman. In The Terror and in one other film. Oh, and in Comedy of Terror. No, in The Raven. Right, The Raven. And I think, like,

Nicholson said back then, he was like, you know, he really was a kid. Yeah, he was. And to be around, like, Karloff, Vincent Price, and Peter Lorre, he was just like,

he felt like this annoying little kid around him. That's one person I've always wanted to meet is Jack Nicholson. But I never have. How did your father come to be an actor, Sarah? I mean, the things I read on the Internet and doing some research about him and about you is that he supposedly lied about his experience. Oh, absolutely. about you is that he supposedly lied about his experience?

Oh, absolutely. He was trained for the diplomatic service because all his brothers were in the diplomatic service in Great Britain, well, in China and India. One brother having been knighted for a service in China, and my father always referred to him as my brother, the sir. And my father was formally educated for the diplomatic service. And he ran away from home at age 21 with $100 in his pocket and took a steamer, flipped the coin between Australia and British Columbia, wanting to be an actor. Shows you how much he knew about it.

Never having had an acting lesson, but having snuck into various theaters to see plays in London growing up. And so when he arrived in British Columbia, he thought he had a job with a farmer. The farmer didn't know he had a job, but he appeared at the farmer's door, and the farmer gave him a job, slept in the barn, and his goal was to become an actor. So when he heard there was an audition with a repertory theater group, he presented himself to the repertory theater group. He presented himself to the repertory theater group's manager as an experienced British actor.

And, you know, Americans and Canadians will fall for anyone with a British accent. So the manager gave him a job. And my father told a story on himself that his salary was $30 a week when the curtain went up on his first performance, but it was $15 a week when the curtain came down on his first performance because it was completely clear he'd never stepped age before in his life, but at least he still had a job. And he worked ultimately off and on for 18, 20 years for three different repertory theater companies in British Columbia, sometimes being paid, sometimes not, doing three to five plays a week.

He was a quick study, fortunately. And sometimes they'd build sets, paint sets. Sometimes there was no work and he'd dig ditches and work for the British Electric Company or the British Railway Company or learn to drive a truck. Had no driver's license, of course. Did whatever it took to keep him starving to death for 18 to 20 years. But he learned his craft there and eventually made his way down to Chicago and then went back to British Columbia and then finally made his way down to San Francisco

and eventually to Hollywood for another 10 years. Hollywood were for another 10 years he was an extra as he said third from the left in the fourth row and then did some bit parts and was in the criminal code in the play and then was cast in the film and became a bit part player which is an improvement over an extra. But he had made 80 films before Frankenstein. It's a long journey. Long journey. 20 years. I heard James Whale, who could be a bit of an egotist and very bitter and jealous of anyone else's fame,

used to sometimes angrily refer to Boris Karloff as, oh, that truck driver. Well, I heard that was Bela. Oh, okay. Good enough. But I didn't say that. Good enough. But I didn't say that.

However, James Whale was jealous of my father being the star of the film because James Whale was inordinately fond of Colin Clive. And he was supposed to be the star of the film. supposed to be the star of the film. And I heard a story that when your father was a starving actor, I think he was like hitchhiking or whatever out in L.A., and he was picked up by Lon Chaney Sr. He was standing in the rain waiting for a bus in front of the studio. And Long Chaney Sr. picked him up and gave him what he considered to be the most valuable advice he ever got. And that was find something that nobody else is doing or is willing to do or can do and then do it better

than anybody else Wow great advice mm-hmm and then then your father basically got he received like the mantle after Cheney senior died of like the king of no bailer bailerela really did. Bela was first. And then when Bela turned down the job. Yeah. And then Bela turned down the job. And then my father was offered the part. And at that point, my father would have taken any role.

I mean, he was a starving actor. Bela already was an established star in the stable. Baylor already was an established star in the stable. You know, I mean, that's what they were referred to by the studios. And Baylor, of course, was following in the footsteps of Cheney Sr. But the unfortunate decision that he made to turn down that role, then it was offered to my father. And history was made. that role, then it was offered to my father. And history was made.

Yeah, and you know, one never knows how the film would have been received had anybody else played it. It would have been different. That's all anybody can say. And they said, too, when Lugosi had turned it down, it was

a different movie than... Well, it had a different director assigned to it. Yes, I think Robert Flory was going to direct it, and the makeup looked more like the golem from the silent movies. And I think people who have seen the script... Proposed makeup. Yeah. People who have seen the script and said... One person said Lugosi was right in turning it down.

The one that he was offered. Now, also, your father, aside from knowing Chaney Sr., also worked several times with Lon Chaney Jr. I think they only worked together once on TV. Well, yeah, that was Route 66. I don't think they made any films together. Owlet's Wing and Lizard's Tail. Is that the last time he wore the monster? Yes, yes.

Lizard's Tail. Is that the last time he wore the monster? Yes, yes. Karloff put on the Frankenstein makeup and Cheney Jr. put on the Wolfman makeup for Route 66. They worked together in one of those Monster Mash type movies

back then when Universal was in House of Frankenstein. Cheney Jr. was the Wolfman and your father was the evil scientist Joseph Niemann. Oh, yeah, yeah. Is that the one that made him leave Universal? Well, I don't know. But did you ever meet Chene't know. But did he ever,

did you ever meet Chaney Jr., or did he ever speak with him? No. No. I know Ron Chaney, but no. My father never spoke of Chaney Jr., and he really never,

I have an interview where he speaks about Bela saying he was a fine actor and he had great respect for him Did he ever feel Sarah type cast in horror films or was he

grateful for the fame that it brought him and grateful to be working? Oh he was very grateful for that role and made such a pivotal difference in his life, both personally and professionally. And he always said, you know, if you find something you can do and you do it well and it brings you fame and fortune, why in the world would you spit on it? I heard a story that your father in like the last days of his life he was in a hospital bed and he still had a voiceover that he had to do so they brought the voiceover equipment to the hospital room

if i i don't know if you remember if he ever spoke to you about this but what i heard is they brought the voiceover equipment and and your father said, isn't it wonderful, even at a time like this, to be doing something that you love? Well, that certainly is the way he would have felt. However, having died of emphysema, I don't know that he would have been able to do that. Well, I heard in his last movies, and that also shows what a trooper he was, he would have an oxygen mask.

Oh, yes, that's true. But I'm not sure the hospital would have allowed unsterile equipment into it. I want to ask Sarah about what we were talking about before, Gilbert, about Arsenic and Old Lace. The joke in the play, in the Broadway production, was that he plays a homicidal gangster who goes into a rage because people keep referring to him as Karloff,

mistaking him for Boris Karloff, which is a joke that they kept in the movie that Frank Capra made, even though Raymond Massey was playing the part and not your dad. And Gilbert and I were discussing how the joke never works, because it's not Boris Karloff. Right, right. Yeah, the line was, his sidekick asked him, why did you kill him?

And he said, because he said I look like Boris Karloff. Which the audiences must have loved when he was in the part. The joke made no sense. I don't know how it possibly looked like Boris Karloff. Why didn't he do the Capra film?

Was he otherwise? They would not release him from the run of the play. I see. It's a shame. Oh, it play. I see. It's a shame. Oh, it is. It is. It's a terrible shame. It's a fun little film, but what it's missing is Boris Karloff. And it would have been fun.

Oh, it would have been. It would have been fun watching him play off of Peter Lorre in that. And Cary Grant, for that matter. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It would have been great fun. But, you know, you can't, you know,

they weren't going to release him from the run of the play. Now, your father, at one point, he got so tired of, like, Universal making and remaking the same films over and over under different titles. I think he went to either Columbia or RKO. RKO, I think. RKO.

And he wanted to do something different. And then I think he felt then once again they were making the same films over and over again. making the same films over and over again. Well, I'm not sure why he temporarily left Universal. I think he had been promised a raise if he had made a certain film, he would get a raise on the next film, and he didn't, and so he walked. Oh, and I also...

Oh, go ahead. He was a man of great integrity. I heard that your father, also not making demands and being, you know, hard worker and easy to work with, he was like, at one point in the Frankenstein series, they had developed boots that were much lighter than the ones he was used to wearing. And they said, we can make these for you. And he turned them down and said, no, that he was fine with the Frankenstein boots he was wearing. Well, that's something I never heard, but I don't, you know, I have no way of knowing. I was not alive when those films were made.

I was born when Son of Frankenstein was made. Is it true, Sarah, that you really don't like scary movies yourself? I do not like scary movies. I'm a wuss. The daughter of Frankenstein does not like scary movies. I'm a total wuss. I leave the room during murder, she wrote. That's wonderful.

Now, your father, I also have vague memories. I think this was either man from uncle or girl from uncle. Girl from Uncle. And he played a woman. Oh, yes. He played Mother Muffin. Yes. That's right.

Girl from Uncle. Oh, yes. And when they finished the makeup, he looked in the mirror and he said, I look like a two-bit whore. I'm sorry to say that's actually how I discovered Boris Karloff was in the Wild Wild West and Route 66, and I spy

before I ever saw them. Before I ever saw the horror films. I mean, he was good in them. But before I ever saw Frankenstein when I was a kid. He's good in those parts. He seemed to be having fun. Oh, he loved what he did. He absolutely loved what he did.

What I remember, too, when your father passed away, I was a kid, and I looked in the newspaper, and it said, you know, Boris Karloff dead at whatever age he died at. And there was a picture in full Frankenstein makeup of the actor Glenn Strange. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They, like, didn't even bother to find the right Frankenstein. It was probably provided to them by Universal. Yeah.

And I remember as a kid being such a fan of those movies, right away I said, that's going strange. Yeah. Probably Universal provided them with the photograph. They don't know. with the photograph. They don't know. And I remember your father was also the villain in The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.

Oh, I know, Danny Kaye. Yes. Did he ever talk about that? Because he seemed like he enjoyed comedy. Oh, he did. He had a wonderful sense of humor. Wonderful sense of humor. He and my godmother used to exchange Christmas gifts in garbage cans. So he had a dark sense of humor as well.

Oh, he just had a lovely sense of humor. And he sent himself up, I mean, and things like Mad Monster Party. Oh, he really liked that, you know. Yeah, he took that, you know, that was great. That was fun. I mean, his career was long enough that he got to parody himself, which must have been a treat. Oh, yeah, I mean, to turn around and that's like Vincent and Peter Lorre in the Corman films.

They got to spoof their own boogeyman image. That was great fun for them. And I read somewhere that you would love to see Jeremy Irons play your dad. Is that right? Oh, how wonderful that would be. That would be wonderful. That would be great casting. Did you see Gods and Monsters?

Yeah, I would be. Did you see the James Whale picture? Yeah, yeah, Gods and Monsters? Yeah, I would be. Did you see the James Whale picture? Yeah, yeah, Gods and Monsters. Yes, I did. Oh, what did you think of that? Oh, I thought it was great. I mean, you know, I'm delighted to see Whale got the credit and attention his brilliant directing deserves. I love the old dark House, too, speaking of

Whale. Oh, yes. Oh, it's wonderful. Talk about atmospheric. Yeah, it's a good one. Yes, it is. It's wonderful. It was hard to find that film. It was out of print or something. It was very difficult to find for years, and it's got that all-star cast. Melvin Douglas

is in it, and Charles Blunt is in it, and your dad is fun yeah yeah he looks like he's having fun yeah i mean i love it when he slides open the window on the door oh that's that's great that's a great scene and i just heard recently recently a recording of your dad and beta lugosi on a radio show singing a song called we're horrible horrible men horrible men oh god horrible horrible i have to see that and it was so funny you could see that you could just hear that the two of them were enjoying, like, making fun of themselves. Oh, sure. Why not?

You know, they had a good time. There's somebody working on a project of Boris Karloff sings all the songs he sang on TV and on Broadway. Oh, my. He sang and danced. And it's funny because they mentioned... And the peppermint twist, yeah. Oh, God! Was that on the skeleton show? On the skeleton show.

And as a matter of fact, there's an episode of The Honeymooners. That's right, where they reference Boris Karloff dancing on the Red Skelton Show. He says something like, he goes, you know, when you see Boris Karloff in Frankenstein, that's Frankenstein. He goes, that's Boris Karloff, not singing and dancing on the Red Skelton Show. I believe he's talking about his mother-in-law. Oh, how funny. Boris Karloff is an analogy. Oh, how funny. Boris Karloff is an analogy. Oh, how funny.

I thought that was so classic and such an honor that he's immortalized in The Honeymooners. Oh, yeah. Well, he's immortalized in a lot of ways. I tell you, Sarah, doing research today and just surfing the web and finding just all kinds of wonderful gems, and this is your life episode that you are in. Yes. And it's fascinating to see the look on his face. Originally, he's waving when Ralph Edwards says, oh, Boris Karloff.

And I think if you go and you watch it again, correct me if I'm wrong, he gives a little wave like, oh, I'll acknowledge that I'm Boris Karloff. He doesn't realize that he's actually the subject. Yeah, he thought he was being introduced because he was great friends with Ralph and Barbara, he and my stepmother, and they were great friends, and very often they would watch the show from the wings. And so he thought he was just being introduced, and he had always elicited a promise from Ralph that he would never make him a subject of the show.

Never. Because my father was a very modest, very private person. And he was horrible. I could see it in his face. If you watch it and look, the second time he looks back and looks at my stepmother, he gives her a look that would fry anybody. And he later said she sold him out for a washer and dryer. Great stuff. It is.

It's a double take. The first time he looks up, it's like Ralph is acknowledging him. And he says, oh, yes, Liz. Yes, I'm Boris Karloff. Thank you very much. Yes, hello. And this little wave. And then he looks over. and it's a triple take.

He looks over at my stepmother, and then he looks again when he realizes it. And it is a chilling look. It's wonderful. He's aghast. And the other thing I found was the color makeup test of him with Jack Pierce, clowning around with Jack Pierce. Yeah, that's my home movie. Oh, it's great. It's great.

I urge our listeners to find it. Because it's a funny thing. They're copyrighted. It's not supposed to be findable. Oh, it's not? Forgive me. I found it on YouTube. No, that's all right.

I'm glad to know that it's findable because it's not supposed to be. It's copyrighted. Yeah. And that's wonderful stuff. It's great to see him. He's sticking his tongue out. It again speaks to Jack Pierce's genius because the greenish tint of the makeup was developed by Jack because he knew that then on black and white film it

would come across as the deathly gray that's a great clip and it's funny because now when they'll do cartoons or any kind of Frankenstein appearance on a color film they make him green forgetting that the whole point was that he looked gray in black and white. That's right. So the green is an error, really. Even in the Color Munsters pictures,

the Fred Gwynn version of Frankenstein is green. That's right. Sarah, you know what I was going to ask you about? Is the internet letting me down again, or was your father's favorite actor really George Kennedy? Yes. That's fascinating.

Did they have a relationship? No. Were they friends, or he just admired his work? He just admired his work. And I met George Kennedy at a show several years ago, and I had the opportunity to tell him that, and he cried. Oh, that's wonderful.

Oh, my God. Yeah. He said he had wished he'd met my father, and one time in New York, my father was across the street walking someplace, came out of a stage door, I guess, and George didn't, he said he almost walked across the street to meet him, and he hadn't, and he'd always wished he had. Wow. And, yeah, I loved

the fact that I told him. Also, on that, This Is Your Life, they brought out Jack Pierce, the makeup genius from all those movies, and your father was so appreciative. And I think...

Oh, yeah. Yeah, he said, greatest makeup man in the world, I owe him a lot. That's right. My father genuinely meant that. And then later on, I think Jack Pierce wound up... Well, he was kicked out by Universal after all. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

He wound up being a makeup man on Mr. Ed, the talking horse. That's what he was doing. That's what he was doing when they made This Is Your Life. Yeah, and the Westmores had taken over by then. Oh, yeah. When Mel Brooks made the spoof when he made Young Frankenstein. Yes. Oh, you're groaning.

Oh, I love it. I love it. It's just my favorite film in the world. It's wonderful. It didn't translate well into a play, but it was my favorite film in the world. It's a wonderful picture. But they didn't have the rights to the Pierce makeup. Is that correct?

I have no idea. Of course, you wouldn't know this. Peter Boyle's makeup is not Jack Pierce's makeup? No. Oh, no, it isn't. But it wasn't supposed to be. Really? I mean, come on. There's no stable in Frankenstein.

That's true. How did your father feel about seeing the Munsters? I'm not sure he ever did. Oh. We'll assume he had a low opinion. He would have had a low opinion of it now he he didn't take part in abedin costello meet frankenstein but he did later on join them for abedin costello meet dr jekyll and mr hyde did he ever talk about abott and Costello? I don't remember. Tara, I just wanted to ask you about him referring to Halloween

and Christmas as his busy season. Yes. Yes. And he did refer to it, and I refer to it as mine, too. Because of the Grinch? Well, Christmas, because of the Grinch, yes. Right, right. And

he was, some people thought that an actor named Thoreau Ravenscroft actually sang. He did. He is the one who sang it. Right, who was also the voice of Tony the Tiger. That's right. Interestingly. That's absolutely right. For you trivia buffs trivia buffs listening. And your dad was sometimes incorrectly credited with singing in the show. That's right. He was. Meanwhile, it was a baritone voice. Right. If he pulled that off, he really would have been a renaissance man.

Right. Right, no. The Grinch still lives on to this day. That's what an amazing classic that is. Oh, it's played every year. The Grinch, yeah, played every Christmas. It's a wonderful legacy

for his family. It's a wonderful piece of work. Oh, it is. It's just, it's delightful. It's enchanting. It's everything it it should be i still get choked up and emotional watching it all these years later yeah look when your father says and his heart grew three times larger that day it's It really is the moment you choke up. Oh, yeah. And, you know, what's wrong with he had garlic

in his soul? That's a lovely line. Don't we all know people like that? Well, also the rhymes. I mean, the difficulty of that dialogue and the challenge it must have been for him and how effortlessly he pulls it all off.

And changing from one to the other, from the narrator to the grinch. Absolutely. It's just a great performance. A classic all-time performance. Yeah, it is. I'm very proud of it. And Chuck Jones, I think. That's right. Yeah, who was the... Oh, yeah.

Yeah, behind Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck. You can't do better than a collaboration of Chuck Jones and Boris Karloff. Well, and how unlikely. This is a timeless piece of work. Yeah. No, it was wonderful. Well, Sarah... Absolutely.

Well, Sarah, we had met, of course, at Chiller Convention. I'm going to be there this October. Oh, okay. I'm there every year. I'm just like a bad penny. And I remember my son met you, who was four years old. He looked at you and he looked at a photograph of Frankenstein, your father as Frankenstein, and looked at you very seriously and said, you don't look like your father. I'm so glad he said that.

I would have had to eat him. That's great. Well, Sarah, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. Well, it's been lots of fun. Thank you very, very much. It's been a treat, Sarah. Thanks for doing

it. Oh, my pleasure. Really, it's been lots of fun. Thank you very, very much. It's been a treat, Sarah. Thanks for doing it. Oh, my pleasure, really. It's been lots of fun. And I'm not sure I understand what a podcast is any more than when we began, but I don't think I need to. You, can I tell you something? I'm the host,

and I don't really know what this is. Oh, good. That's nice. Does Frank know what it is? Do you know what this is. Oh, good. That's nice. Does Frank know what it is? Do you know what it is? I can't operate my cell phone, so this podcast. Oh, good. We have a nine-year-old that comes in and shows us everything. Oh, I'm so glad.

I'm so glad. And I won't be expected to do anything about it. I'm so glad. So I'm Gilbert Gottfried and my co-host, Frank Santopadre, the first time I got his name right. This is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast, and we've been speaking to Boris Karloff's daughter, his pride and joy, Sarah Karloff. Thank you. Thank you so his pride and joy, Sarah Karloff.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sarah. If you like listening to comedy, try watching it on the internet. The folks behind the Sideshow Network have launched a new YouTube channel called Wait For It. It's got interviews with comedians like Reggie Watts, Todd Glass, Liza Schleichinger. Schleichinger, I've been friends with her for 10 years.

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