Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 232. David Fantle and Tom Johnson

Episode Date: November 5, 2018

Gilbert and Frank welcome authors-journalists David Fantle and Tom Johnson, who discuss their compelling book of celebrity interviews, "Hollywood Heyday," and recall their (often hilarious) adventures with Fred Astaire, George Burns, Bob Hope, Gene Kelly, Zeppo Marx, Mickey Rooney and Rod Steiger (to name a few). Also, Milton Berle works blue, Jerry Lewis skips town, Jack Carter disses Johnny Carson and Frank Capra sees the Mississippi River. PLUS: Jules White loads his gun! Uncle Fester eats an omelet! Don Rickles pranks Clark Gable! The return of Swain's Rats & Cats! And George Jessel meets the Happy Hooker! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell.

To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hi, I'm Alan Alda, and I'm a guest on Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. You've got to listen to this. They made me laugh. I laughed like this. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Earwolf with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa.

And Frank and I are pleased to welcome two guests to the podcast this week. David Fantel is an author, public speaker, lecturer, professor of film and pop culture at Marquette University. Tom Johnson is also an author, as well as a former editor at Netflix and a film reviewer who has written for Movie Tone, Movie Phone, I already fucked up, People Magazine, and E! Online. Forty years ago, still in their teens and inspired by their love of classic Hollywood, they sat down and wrote letters to both Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly requesting interviews, and to their shock and surprise, they accepted.

So they scraped together some money from their summer jobs and flew from their homes in Minnesota to Los Angeles to meet the two legends. That opened the door to one-on-one meetings and interviews with more than 250 stars and icons, including Bob Hope, George Burns, Milton Berle, Rod Steiger, Tony Curtis, Debbie Reynolds, Mickey Rooney, Gregory Peck, and even George Yassin. One bright and shining light that taught me wrong from right, I found in my brother's eyes. Along the way, they wrote in James Cagney's Bentley, traded war stories with Uncle Fester, kidnapped Frank Capra, and somehow managed to offend Lucille Ball.

And of all these, all of these adventures are chronicled in their essential new book, Hollywood Hay Day, Candid Interviews with Golden Age Legends. Please welcome to the show two guys with a lot of fucking chutzpah. David Fantel and Tom Johnson.

Well, thanks, Gilbert. Thanks, Frank. This is Dave. And you're right. Robert Wagner, I think in his intro, has said something that we had a lot of fucking chutzpah. I don't know if he used that term. I think he said, you know, we had a lot of audacity,

but that's, you know, I think a direct quote. I don't know. I can't see him using a Jew term. No. He's pretty waspy. Yeah. Right. Welcome, gents.

Well, thanks. Thanks for having us here. Okay, we don't understand it. Two guys obsessed with old Hollywood? Yeah, I mean. You geeks. Totally. It is definitely a niche, right?

Yeah. It's a niche. But we're all elite. It's an a niche, right? Yeah. It's a niche. But we're all elite. It's an elite niche. So yeah. So you remember that film, That's Entertainment? Oh, yes. So our parents, we were 15 years old back in 1974.

And our parents took us both independently to see that film, That's Entertainment. And Tom and I, from that moment on, fell in love with these golden age stars and these golden age films. So we were 15 years old at the time. When we turned 60, we had this great idea. The only way to see those films in their entirety back then was to rent the 16 millimeter prints. So we borrowed the Bell and Howe projector from the St. Paul JCC and started schlepping these films to Minneapolis St. Paul nursing homes. Why nursing homes?

Because we cut the cost. We had to go to nursing homes and charge them about $20 a piece, about five or six nursing homes to cover the cost of the rental of these films, which were about 200 bucks a piece, which we did not have at that point.

Well, we dubbed this philanthropic endeavor Films on Wheels. And part of the reason why half of our audience was on wheels, you know. So what happened was, again, talk about chutzpah. We had a few clips written in the local Twin Cities newspapers about this Films on Wheels venture and what was the next logical step when we turned 18? Let's start writing letters to Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly.

So we started using snail mail and started writing. No email back then. No computers. No internet. No Turner Classic movies. How did you even find the addresses? Well, you know, there's Star Stars Homes maps and things like that. All of that stuff. And were those accurate?

They were very accurate. Which is scary. It's very scary. But we got to Kelly and Astaire. We threw those maps and that set us off. And we sent snail mail letters to their secretaries. It was two years before we were able to arrange the in-person interviews when we were 18, our senior

year of high school, and we flew out from L.A., and we weren't legal to drive. We had to walk to these interviews. I know, I love that part. Oh, it was crazy. This was literally 40 years ago this year. 40 years. We were stopped in Beverly Hills on our way to Gene Kelly's

house because we were dressed in suits. They thought we were Mormons trying to convert people. They said no one walks in Beverly Hills. What the hell are you guys doing? You were 18. You couldn't rent a car? We couldn't rent a car. I was 21 back then.

We stayed at a place that's still there at Doheny in Santa Monica. It was $27 a night, and now it's about $270. That's where we stayed. Incredible. Go ahead, Frank. No, go ahead. You got, I guess, the lucky one that you got that opened the doors was Fred Astaire. Right.

I mean, we like to say having that snapshot with Fred Astaire was like the Willy Wonka golden ticket. Yeah. You know, those two, and particularly Astaire, then and today were so universally revered that it opened up the floodgates for us. You know, the stars sort of took pity on us and probably figured, hey, if Fred would see you, we will too. In fact, that was a direct quote from James Cagney. He said, you know, basically he wrote us, if Freddie will see you, I'll see you, based on this snapshot that we had sent. That happens to us booking this show.

It's true. People want to do the show when friends and other people have already done the show. People that they work with. It becomes a safe space. Well, we'd recommend you to these people, but they're mostly dead. That's fine. You've got a couple of people in there we still want. And it's important for me to mention, as always,

Fred Astaire was a Jew. Frederick Austerlitz? Yes, so you found out he was a Jew. Well, by lineage, yes. You're right, his dad was an Austrian brewer, and we were talking about it today. Dick Cavett was all on that.

We were at a thing with Dick Cavett. Did you say hi to Dick for us? We did. We gave him your love. He loved Dick. We adore him. No, he's great. And, you know, the thing about Astaire was that his grandparents were Jewish but converted

to Roman Catholicism, and then he became an Episcopalian. So I don't know where he ends up in the firmament of that whole religiosity stuff. He's not a Jew, Gil. No. No. I guess dancer's not Jewish by and large, right? But Cary Grant, I heard, was. Well, I've heard a few things about Cary Grant.

Not him being Jewish. You know what's funny? It's like we had on Robert Osborne. Yeah, wonderful. Great guy. And Robert Osborne talked about, you know, like how we all knew, like, movies used to show on TV 24 hours a day. And he said there was one movie in particular he saw like 20 times before finding out it was a musical. Because they cut out all the musical numbers for TV. Unreal.

Because they wanted to fit in with the time. When we interviewed Bob Hope the second time, he said that he and Dolores were in Cleveland or some city. They were watching one of the Ghostbusters. I think it was the one with Paul Edgard. Yeah, Edgard, yes. And he said that they cut out a whole reel of the film, and he was trying at 2 a.m. to call the station to get it rectified.

Of course, there was no one there. No. It was already programmed. But, yeah, when we would—here's the thing. When we would show these musicals to six, seven, eight nursing homes, the reality is a lot of these films sucked. Yeah. So we had a trick of these films sucked. Yeah. So we had a trick.

You know how they came in three or four reels of the 16 millimeter cans? So we would cut out a reel or two and these residents didn't even notice. Yeah. Just leave a reel out of him. It was great. I mean, it was fantastic.

They were totally, you know, out of it so we could get away with this. We could get home to dinner. I mean, it was great. Here's Tom and Pat without a second act. And of course, it's not PC to be, you know, we're going to hopefully be old one day. But, you know, we had nicknames for people

at these nursing homes. Remember, there was that guy that we looked like how Harpo would have looked at even 95. You know, like he still had the curly white hair. And then there was a guy. There was the Italiano, this woman that, he still had the curly white hair and then there was a guy there was a guy there was a the Italiano this woman

that like we do Chico Marx lines to her and she just she sort of in some weird recess of her mind would get it and she'd be

ha ha ha ha she would like totally laugh at these Chico Marx lines from like the Marx Brothers movies our punishment for laughing at this is we're all headed there

there he is yes make the reservation. White lightning bolt is going to strike us. This leads us into, you met Zeppo. Well, it was a phone conversation with Zeppo. Tom and I, amongst all this stuff, had a great fascination with that Orpheum-Vaudeville circuit. Sure.

So part of the names that we were seeing were to try to get stories from people who played the Orpheum circuit. And by the time we started doing this, the only one that was alive was Zeppel. And we were going out to Palm Springs to interview William Demarest, a wonderful guy. Oh, great guy. Love him. And I don't know how we, pray tell, got Zeppel's phone number. I don't know, but Zeppel, we got him on the phone and he was totally disinterested. I don't know, but Zeppo, we got him on the phone, and he was totally disinterested.

He didn't give a frickin' flying you-know-what about talking about the March Brothers. But then we said, well, what did you do in St. Paul? We're trying to conjure up memories of, like, 90 years ago, and he had no interest. And then we said, well, what did you do between shows? And he said, we'd three-sheet. shows and he said we'd three sheet we'd stand by the three sheet poster and try and like get girls to like you know notice us from our picture on the poster and then try and date them and then we said well did that ever work well not too much and then you know but did you gamble between shows where where do we gamble what what clubs he was like totally totally interested in any kind of gambling story from the Twin Cities.

And we said, this is a question. We don't know where you gamble. How old was Zeppo at this point? This would have been about 1979. He was born about 1901. It's like when Steve Stolyar met Zeppo at some event. He said, oh, Zeppo, I'm a big fan of yours. And Zeppo said, no, you're not. You're a fan of Groucho Chico and Larpo.

Also, Zeppo kind of hit on a girl that Steve was interested in. Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, man. It's on the Stoll era. When you look at Zeppo's life with Barbara Marks and what have you, is it any surprise that he only perked up when it came to screwing and gambling? Exactly.

That was pretty much it. Right. Right. That was their other pastime. Exactly. Because Seth was one of those. And Chico's for sure. Chico.

Where if you say this was one of the Mox brothers, it's like, which one were you? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Let me think. Well, before we move forward with all of these wonderful people that you guys got to meet, at least give us a little bit of what happened on the first stop with Astaire. He did a little improv for you? A little improvised dance for you?

He did. He was seated in a chair. He was the greatest guy. We came in behind him. He was in his accountant's office on Brighton Way in Beverly Hills. 94.05, if any weird people want to stalk him. I think he's dead now. They can see where he

did his taxes. We'll book his accountant. Yeah, exactly. And they can see where he did his taxes. We'll book his accountant. Yeah, exactly. And we walked in, and he was balancing his checkbook. All we saw was zeros. It was like insane. And then, yeah, we talked about Saturday Night Fever. He voted for John Travolta for Best Actor that year.

Oh, my God. Yeah, he thought he was fantastic. And then he did a dance in his chair for us. Yeah, he sort of scuffled around. Yeah, he went there a little bit. That's fantastic. That was pretty cool. The thing about Astaire is he had no awareness of his genius. Wow.

I mean, totally unaware. Yeah, you said that over the phone. He was humble. He was one of those Hollywood gods. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We had mentioned that when we were at Films on Wheels that we had shown Easter Parade, one of his films with Judy Garland, and one of the residents thought it was one of our

home movies. And of course, Astaire would never analyze his films. He was incapable of it. But he sort of stuttered a little bit. She actually thought it was a home movie. So he got a sort of a kick out of that. No, he actually broke up and then we told him that

in another reel of Easter Parade, one of these residents came up and tried to pull the screen down because they were sick of it or whatever. He totally loved that. He said, well, I think there were some of my movies that the screen should have been ripped down but maybe not that one.

Now, did you ever hear anything of what John Travolta thought that Fred Astaire- Never heard back from John Travolta, but I know that Travolta and Michael Jackson and a few of those contemporary stars at the time, they idolized Astaire. Yes.

And so there was some kind of relationship that they had, but Astaire. Yes. And so there was some kind of relationship that they had. But Astaire was extremely contemporary. And Astaire had a very limited education. He started in vaudeville with his sister. And so, you know, he liked the horse races. He wasn't one of those guys that was going to go out and see opera and ballet. Kelly was different.

You know, Kelly wanted to mentor ballet and dancers and artists and go to the ballet and go to the theater. Astaire had no interest in that. And also Astaire told us a great story. He said there's this young kid. This was back in 78 when we interviewed him. He said, this is a young kid that likes to come up and like in rollerblade, take a skateboard down my long driveway. His name is Michael Jackson. Oh, my God.

And so Michael Jackson came to his house and practiced on his driveway, and Astaire later on tried to do it. I think Michael Jackson sort of taught him how to skateboard, and he broke his ankle. Unbelievable. Yeah, Fred broke his ankle. Never knew that. And his widow, and I better be careful of what I say,

Robin Astaire is still living in the home on San Ysidro Drive. Remember, she was the jockey. Yeah, I was just going to say, she was a jockey. She was a jockey, and I grew up in the Twin Cities. She used to do Shasta Cola commercials. Oh. And I don't remember, you guys may remember when they did the Kennedy Center honor to Ginger Rogers, You guys may remember when they did the Kennedy Center honor to Ginger Rogers and Robin Astaire would not let CBS use any clips of her with Fred.

Oh, it was. And so she's still wallowing in his home and she's not doing anything to perpetuate his legacy. But what she would do, what she did allow was the Fred Astaire famous coat rack dance from Royal Wedding. She allowed the Dirt Devil people to do the Dirt Devil where the Dirt Devil was substituted for the coat rack. See, that's sad. These people pass away and they have no control over their

legacy. It was all commerce. Okay, Frank and I were talking about this yesterday and this is all I want to talk to you about. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. When you were at Stanley Don and Joe's. Oh, no. Oh, no.

So for those listening, of course, all your listeners know Stanley Don, and he is one of the last. They should. They should. He's one of the last survivors of the golden age. He was the director of Singing in the Rain. Singing in the Rain and Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. Two from the Road, Charade.

Living about 20 blocks from here. So at the time, and Tom can take it over, the story, but at the time we interviewed him, he was on Stone Canyon Road, and he was married to Yvette Mimieux, who was probably best remembered for The Time Machine. Remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of stuff. Very attractive. Weena. Ridic? Yeah, sure. A lot of stuff. Very attractive.

Weena. Ridiculously beautiful. Exactly. A sex kitten. Oh, yeah. Yes. I guess you could say that. So go ahead with the host.

No, it was 9 a.m., which is very early for Beverly Hills, Brentwood, and Bel Air. We pulled up. We were in our suits. We came up to a gated community. The gate opened. we were allowed in we kind of drove up we were shown to the study of stanley donan's study which was great we sat down his dogs immediately attacked us and started to shed on us so we were like yetis at the end of this interview it was sick we were just filled with horse hair or dog hair. And then

out of nowhere, Yvette blows through these French doors and she's completely nude. I mean, she came from the shower. I guess Stanley hadn't tipped her off that we were there for an interview. She screamed bloody murder, ran out, and then we hear

we're sitting there with like ten shades of crimson. You guys are 17 at this point? 18, 19. So at your ages back then, a hideously ugly woman naked would have made you come to camp. Absolutely.

Here is a heart-stoppingly sexy woman. If Margaret Hamilton burst through those red doors. And guys, I gotta say, the dogs had started us up. So it was like, come on. So she wails in. And then we hear this heated argument between her and Stanley just screaming. And we're like, Dave and I are looking at each other.

What the F is going to go on here? Yeah. And then Stanley comes in five minutes later, and it's a monosyllabic interview. He's like, he's so pissed off at us, but we didn't do anything. No, no, he should have told her. Oh, my God. So he took umbrage when we dare question the film Saturn 1.

Do you remember Saturn 1? Oh, yes. Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglas. And we're sitting there, and it became very antagonistic. And we're saying, yeah, it didn't quite do as well as you probably hoped. He goes, I wouldn't say that. Well, the reviews weren't too good.

And he goes, what reviews? Cite some for me. You know, I mean, it just— Oh, man. He was just—you got him. He was off on the wrong foot. No, it was horrible. And more importantly, what did Yvette Mew's body look like?

Oh, man. Oh, my God's body look like? Oh, man. Oh, my God. Wait, wait. Let me gather myself here. Tom's glasses are steaming. Oh, my God, I'm fogging up. Robert Wagner wanted to know all about the Yvette Mew thing. He was obsessed with it.

And he was 86 at the time. And he said, like, you know, I was in a movie with her, but I never got her. It was like, I'm like, okay, Robert, well, we have that in common. But, like, it was incredible. No, she was gorgeous. So Stanley has to walk into the room at 9 o'clock in the morning and conduct an interview with two teenagers that were just ogling his wife. Absolutely. His naked wife.

Absolutely. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful woman. Well, and the other one, you know, growing up at the time we did, and she's in the book that, you know, we had the hots for, was Jacqueline Bissett. Oh, absolutely. You know, doing the deep and all that. Oh, man. She was wearing those tight leather pants. It was leather pants.

And she had a dog that just, I don't know what happened, but the dog would not leave her alone. I mean, it was like, that dog wasn't stupid. No, and it got to the shock point. She had to put him in another room. I mean, she was just like, and then the dog started to yowl, and then she had to cut the interview off. We were like, oh, my God, you know? So we never finished the interview with the vet because her dog was in heat. Yeah, that dog said, I don't care if I'm another species.

Exactly. That's why the chapter of Bissett is titled Dog Day Afternoon. And so was Jackie looking good? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. This is all Gilbert cares about. He doesn't care about Gene Kelly. Most women were smart enough and didn't consent to interviews.

Yeah. Yes. They were sort of. Well, you were kids, interviews. Yeah. Yes. You know, they were sort of. Well, you were kids, though. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. But, you know, Lucy is.

I mean, and most of the women did not consent to photographs. Yeah. The guys, for the most part, did. They didn't care. Because they were used to makeup and hair and everything else. Well, we'll get to Lucy in a second because that's pretty rich. But at least talk about Gene Kelly. You guys walked over there.

No, I want to talk about naked ass. Well, it's going to run thin with Jacqueline Bissett and Yvette Mimieux. I don't give a fuck that you met Clark Gable. Clark Gable. He was dead in 61. I want to know some actresses' tits. Well, okay, let's get Gilbert excited. We can tell him about the last interview that we ever did with Nanette Fabre.

I don't think that's going to do it for him. That doesn't excite me, Dave. She was 92 and literally under the sheets. Literally. It was the only interview where she was totally under the sheets in her bed, and we had the micro cassettes literally on her pillow. She was in a prone position. The only part of the sheet wasn't over her head.

I mean, it was like, which then about two months later happened. That'll be Gilbert's last interview. Now I'm going to kill myself. So you walked to Gene's house. You got stopped by a cop. And what's interesting about the Kelly interview is that you did two interviews over time.

And there was a lot of it was sad when you went back the second time. Because in 1978 he was 66 years old. He was still playing tennis. He was Gene Kelly. Yeah. Like we know him. Yeah.

Then in about 1992 he was in his early 80s and it was Oscar night and we went back to his home and the stark striking thing is he had to hold on to my arm just to stand up he didn't have his hair piece on which was extremely unusual and his glasses were super thick i mean he looked like he was 95 years old it was just such a jarring image of someone that we know from the films yeah and his his his house had burned down in the interim. Yeah, that's what I was alluding to. He had incredible art. He had rouleaux. He had all this French expressionist art.

He had French dance hall posters from the Belle Epoque. It was incredible. They rebuilt the house. They tried their best to. They rebuilt it exactly as it was, but then all the art was gone. So when we went in the last time, it was just, oh, my God, it was so sad. And all of those celebrities from years ago, they all wound up wearing those same glasses.

Super thick. That looked like two movie screens. Like goggles. The Swifty Lazar glasses. Yes, yes. Dean Martin was wearing them, Ed McMahon, all of them. Goggles. Those were Lazar glasses. Yes, yes. Dean Martin was wearing them. Ed McMahon, all of them. Those were scary glasses.

But the Kelly situation was his house burned down. It was a Christmas tree fire. Yeah. And they found, somewhere they found the blueprints. And they recreated the home. And we actually have the Christmas card that he sent because we received Christmas cards from him. I love that he sent you cards every year. And the picture was the home, and it said, back in the home for Christmas.

Wow. Oh, geez. Well, now we went from the classy. I want to hang myself. We went from the classy of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. Let's change directions and talk about Uncle Miltie. Oh. Can we say the jokes? Anything you know about Uncle Miltie. Uncle Miltie. Can we say the jokes?

Anything you know about Uncle Miltie. Uncle Miltie. I haven't heard the urban legends. We met him at the Friars Club on Santa Monica Boulevard. Now gone. It looked like a parking ramp. That's where I met him. It was incredible.

And we met him in the Milton Berle room, the Miltonton burrow table the milton burrow chair it was like this little microcosm of the world where he was and he was the only comedian we've ever interviewed in our lives that had a gag man with him buddy arnold party arnold yeah yeah one time you forgot he also had the um milton burrow urinal but it was like six inches off the ground yeah it was like we had that booth He had that booth. I met him at the Friars Club. He had that booth, and you would have to go over to the booth and kiss the ring. Oh, yeah.

And he had a crease in his pants in the photo that we just don't know what that... I mean, it was like, oh, my freaking God. And you never asked to see his cock. No, no, no. I think he would have shown it. I mean, he was totally willing to do anything. I think he would have shown it. I mean, he was like totally willing to do anything. I met him, and I wish to God now I knew that he was so willing to show his guts.

Because it just seems like such an honor. Yeah, I don't think we would have had the guile that you had, Gilbert. But, I mean, we were fortunate because there are dick jokes in the Burrell chapter. So that's like the badge of honor. He told us a penis joke, which was amazing. We felt honored. It was incredible. Oh, a dick joke from Milton Berle.

It was a total dick joke. He's a penis punchline for 20 years. 30, 40 years. We felt so blessed. Did you only meet him once or twice, Gil? Yeah, a couple of times I met him. Did he like you uh he seemed to he was one of those people of the old school like kenny youngman who when you met them they were on yeah yeah

every other line was a punchline right burns was on burl was on mel brooks is on but jack carter was on yeah yeah well jack carter That section where you talk to, yeah, where you talk to. Oh, Jessel? Not Jessel. Oh, that's scary. That's scary, too. That's very scary. That was scary.

That I want to kill myself. Yeah, where you were talking to George Burns. Yeah, yeah. Every single answer was a punchline. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, when we got, well, we're all over the map, but Jess. That's our show.

Yeah. We love it. We'll try to bring it around in some kind of way. It's great. So did they ever, I mean, do you know the story of why Burl started doing the drag shtick on the TV show? No. So he was living at his mother's place at the Essex house here in New York City. Yeah.

And he, you know, had this, what he said, like terribly attractive girl from Texas that was at the Barbizon, the all girls hotel. So he went to the Western Costume Company and got the padding for the bust and the dress and the heels and everything else. And the wig. And the wig. So he could get by the front desk clerk at the Barbizon, get in the elevator so he could sleep and make it with this girl. Jeez. And he talked about then exiting was not a pretty picture

because the next morning he was exiting and he said someone was on the elevator looking at him like he was the elephant man because at that point, you know, he was all a mess. And he said it was so damn painful trying to walk back to that home in the Essex house after wearing those heels. Where he was living with his mom at the

Essex house. And didn't Milton Berle also sleep with Amy Semple McPherson? Supposedly. The famous evangelist. The famous woman preacher. Well, I wouldn't doubt it. Look what he has as an advertisement. Supposedly. Oh, really? The famous evangelist. The famous woman preacher. Oh, geez. Well, I wouldn't doubt it.

I mean, look what he has as an advertisement. And according at least to our friend Drew Friedman. Yeah. Drew's a friend too. Marilyn Monroe. I mean, I'd say Marilyn Monroe's the only woman who can honestly say she's attracted to a sense of humor. Because she slept with, according to Drew, she slept with Milton Berle, Jerry Lewis, Jack Benny, and Groucho Marx. Oh, man.

She obviously liked Jewish guys. Yes. Do we have proof of this? We'll take it up with Drew. How does that explain the Kennedy boys? The Roman Catholics? She was slumming. Comparison shopping.

I'll try out a Gentile. Mentioning our friend Drew, another friend, you may not know, Drew's younger brother Kip Friedman lives in Milwaukee. Yeah, we know Kip. Yeah, Kip's a great guy. Great, wonderful guy. So when you're interviewing Burns, and he's doing shtick, because he can't do a straight interview, and he's telling you about all the acts, he's telling you about Fink's mules.

Did he mention Swain's Rats and Cats? He did, totally. He loved the animal acts. He was like a one-man fount of vaudeville information. Powers elephants. Absolutely. Powers elephants. Madame Burkhart and her mules. I mean, no.

Forget it. They said in the movie The Sunshine Boys they basically let George Burns say just whatever memories you have, because he had the names of these wacky football guys. Absolutely.

The funny thing about Burns, when we walked in after the Northridge quake, there were aftershocks for months. We walked in after a major aftershock and we said, George, so this was when he was 95 or thereabouts. Did you feel that aftershock the other night?

He says, I look forward to earthquakes. They're my form of aerobics. I thought he was going to say that's about sex to George. Did you have to deliver a letter from the director, Eddie Bazell, who had a crush on Gracie? Yes. Which is one of the stranger things in the book. Very weird. Let's see if I wrap my mind around this.

Which is one of the stranger things in the book. Very weird. Well, now, let's see if I wrap my mind around this. He's giving you a letter to give to him about his deceased wife, about a crush he had on his deceased wife. That's exactly what happened. Very awkward. Yes. But what happened was we hadn't seen Burns in like 20, there was like a 10 or 15 year span between the first and second interview. Eddie Bozell directed At the Circus.

At the Circus. At the Circus. And Go West. But what happened was Bozell... They're two really strong ones. Great Marx Brothers movies. But Bozell had died in the interim before we delivered the letter. So it was sort of this weird...

That was weirder still. It was like a letter from God or something. Like we just delivered this letter. This letter from the grave that says, I have a crush on you. I have a crush on your late wife. Yeah, here, George, you know. We'll be back with an amazing colossal podcast. And maybe three to four years with good behavior. Ha ha ha! All your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like Blackjack, Roulette, Slots, and Baccarat.

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19 and over and physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins,

the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Yo, you doesn't have to call me Johnson. My name is Raymond J. Johnson Jr.

Now, you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me Johnny, or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me Junny, or you can call me Ray J., or you can call me RJ, or you can call me RJJ, or you can call me RJJ Jr. But you doesn't have to call me RJ. Or you can call me RJJ. Or you can call me RJJ Jr. But you doesn't have to call me Johnson. And ladies and gentlemen, you have been listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, wonderful, funny, hysterical podcast. We now return to the Gilbert Gottfried Amazing Collective. I was reading somewhere that Emil Zitka was visiting Curly Joe Dorita

and they said Curly Joe Dorita agreed with Emil Zitka that Jules White was a schmuck. Now you met Jules White. The famous Three Stooges director. How did you pick Jules White?

Of all the people that you guys criticized. I think it was a lotto. Probably because Joe Besser was dead. How did you pick Jules White of all the people that you guys could have chosen? I think it was a lotto. I don't know. I mean, it was like, oh. Probably because, you know, Joe Besser was dead. I don't know. Dorito wasn't worth the trip. You know, and the weird thing about Jules White is we interviewed him. We called him up, and he was like, you know, he didn't want to do it.

He said, I'm going dove hunting up in the Sierra Nevada. I'm like, I don't want to do this. And we said, come on, it'll be a short subject interview like your shorts and he was like total dead silence like he didn't think it was funny so we eventually consented but he said i'll be loading my shotgun during the interview when we do this so you'd better be you know quick about this and he was indeed he was loading his shotgun during the whole interview it was like it was the most tense interview so this was a comedy during yes yes you tried to get him to do the eye poke so we tried to take photos for those who consented immediately after and we said come on can you do

the eye poke and he goes i can't do that i won't do that because i think it sends the wrong message to kids. He filmed like 5,000 story stooges. Would he put your head in a letter press? Yeah. Was he okay with the saw? Yeah, the saw. The sound effect. It's crazy. Flamed the blowtorch.

Yeah. Okay, since Gilbert alluded to it, let's get Jessel. Oh, yes. Let's get this one. I don't know if you saw the photo in the book. I did. Yeah, I saw the photo. The photo is right there in my mind with Bud Abbott's photo in the home.

Ugh, yeah. It's, oh, just, all right, just killed me. Jessel was living in Reseda in a home. In the valley. In the valley. How old is he at this point? Oh, early 80 was living in Reseda, in a home in the valley. How old is he at this point? Oh, early 80s. Early 80s, yeah. And when you got in, there was a housekeeper of some sorts by the kitchen.

But the kitchen was pretty much, the counter was full of Swanson TV dinners. Oh. And there were flies buzzing around. A full trash bag that had not been emptied in probably three weeks filled with swans and dinners. He's living like Ed Gein at this point. Oh, yeah. And he's wearing the beret, a bathrobe, and he's sitting in this shabby, lazy boy. But the interesting thing, he's surrounded by all of this memorabilia.

He had a cane that Eisenhower gave him. He had the Gene Herschelt Award. He had pictures with all of these David Ben-Gurion and all these famous people. He had an autographed photo of Xavier Hollander, the happy hooker, that he told us to go look at and read the inscription. So the crap he had in his house was probably worth a few billion. And who knows whatever happened to it when he passed.

But again, he was so bitter and he said to us, I just got off the phone with Burl, I mean with Burns, and we said, how's he doing? And he just said, making millions. So he was envious that Burns was still working. And we knew little about Jaisal going into this thing.

The only thing, and this was like late 70s, early 80s. I don't even know the context. Rob Reiner did some late night sketch where he played Jaisal doing a telethon to stop death in our lifetime. He did the whole thing. We've got to stop death in our lifetime. And that's all we knew. We also knew all he did was give eulogies to the people that died before him.

Yes, the Roastmaster General. The weirdest thing at the end of the interview, we had been pointed to all these different things and we had been looking at him, reading inscriptions at his behest. Then we finally got out to the

car and our our you know by this time we were yeah by this time we had a tape recorder and we had notes and stuff so we got out to the car and i'm looking at the notes and he had written an inscription when we were walking around all over the you know room you know reading harry truman's love letter to him or whatever and And he said, the inscription said, to the greats without a microphone, which was very poignant in a way because he was a vaudevillian back in the early 1900s and they weren't mic'd back then.

So he was sort of living in the past in a weird way. He was like standing up for people that could project without a microphone, the olden days. That's weird. And he was the one, he came very close to being

the star of the jazz singer. Absolutely. Borners didn't offer him enough money. Yeah, he turned it down. And they say that Jolson, I mean, it's sort of a myth, because it's probably an exaggeration, never saw a microphone until he was like 60 years old. That's what they said. Yeah, but I mean, he made jazz of a myth because it's probably an exaggeration, never saw a microphone until he was like 60 years old.

That's what they said. Yeah, but I mean, he made jazz singer. That wasn't a microphone. No, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he think he'd been blackballed, too, from the industry? Jessel? Jessel for his conservatism?

Yeah, I think he did. But he was very proud of the work he did for the establishment of the state of Israel. For Israel, yeah. Very proud of that. The weird thing was, that trip, about a week later, we're leaving LA, we're at LAX, and we see him being wheeled down, you know, one of those

runways, you know, one of those hallways. He was in his military uniform. Oh, sure, yeah. With his purple heart. Yeah. I mean, we were like, hey, George, good to see you. You always went out in a uniform. Exactly. Hey, great to see you again, you know? I mean, it's great that you're, what are you, a major general today? I mean, it was insane. But it was so bizarre that he would go to these Hollywood openings with the tuxedo,

the cape, and a beautiful girl on his arms to go back to Reseda and his Swanson TV dinners. It was just so weird. It was crazy. Great stuff. And I'm sure turning down the jazz singer haunted him every second of his life. It must have. What about Hope? Well, Bob Hope.

He hated the Jews, didn't he? He strikes me. Where do you get this? Like he couldn't avoid them. He had to associate with them. But I get the impression he and Bing hated the Jews he had to associate with him but i get the impression he and bing hated the well there was certainly enough stuff on bing in that but i always well we try to talk about contemporary stuff and politics we looked at what happened to minnesota

senator l franken for his uso hijinks yeah i said l franken was a boy scout next to him in the usa but he wasn. But he wasn't a member of the government. There was those stories that Bob Hope on those Vietnam tours, he would have some young honey the current

Brooke Shields or whoever. And Jillian. Joey Heatherton. Exactly. And according to legend, he would say to them, if they didn't fuck him, he was leaving them in Vietnam. We cannot confirm that. I confirm that. Hey, wait a minute.

I was there. That story was told by a guy we interviewed that was your guest, Dave Thomas. Oh, yeah. Dave Thomas. Excellent. Yeah. Dave Thomas, great. See, I told you.

The only guy who could do hope. But I mean, hope, you know, was infamous for not saying anything. I mean, he was a publicity whore. Of course. He would talk to anyone. Yeah. And protected the brand. Exactly.

But, you know, we actually sort of got him off his guard a little bit when we did a long-form interview in Minneapolis. What he used to do later in life, and he was always with Dolores later in life, he would come to a city like Minneapolis, he would play one show for an hour at a nightclub

or what have you, but he would use it as an excuse to golf all day. And so we interviewed him late night because comedians are up late because that's their lifetime schedule. And we got into a little bit of politics and him being a war hawk and his conservative politics. And the one thing that he took umbrage of, it was right after Reagan had gotten shot.

And it's in the book how he talks about, I can't understand. That was interesting. How Reagan is not supporting tougher gun laws. Yeah. From Bob Hope. That was interesting. That totally surprised me. He talks about, I can't understand how Reagan is not supporting tougher gun laws. Yeah. From Bob Hope. That was interesting. That totally surprised me.

That was interesting. He came to homecoming at the University of Minnesota, and we started by saying, you know, what do you make of this term legend? And he said, you know, it really makes me blush because, first of all, I'm still working. I'm still here. And he sort of thought the term legend, if you affix it to anyone, should be affixed to someone who is deceased. And, I mean, I know, I think legend is the most overused term. Absolutely. It's there with hero.

Yes. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, he was very. Was Dolores in the room? She was in the room. And his dog, Toby. And Mr. Minnesota, who was his personal bodyguard in Minnesota. And I heard Bob Hope, wherever state he was working in, he would claim he was going there because he likes to eat healthy.

But they said he would find out where like these ladies auxiliary meetings were and ladies clubs and he would make a claim well the food is uh much better and healthier and yeah yeah well he was appalled because he went to a movie theater in the twin city it wasn't north dallas he went to see north d Dallas 40 because his good friend Mac Davis was in the movie. And he walked out because he was appalled at the profanity. He thought modern movies were crude and dirty. Yeah, exactly. Fascinating.

It's funny, too, because did he tell you guys that part of the road movies were ad-libbed? That 20% of them? Yeah, do you buy that? No, I don't. Here's what I heard. I don't. I don't either. Here's what I heard about the road movies.

You know, they have the legend like, oh, you know, Bob Pope and Bing Crosby tossed the script to the side and they did their own stuff. And what someone said is, yeah, they may have tossed the script to the side, but that's only because they had their own staff of writers who were giving them jokes,

so they were using their jokes. Hope and Crosby weren't thinking it up. Absolutely not. And he was always quick to credit his writers. He was. I don't know if it's Hollywood lore, too, where he would stand up on the second floor of his home and throw the checks down to the writers. I heard that about Jackie Gleason, too. So I don't know which one.

Apocryphal. And you know, the reason, I mean, Bob Hope had amazing timing. He had that great cowardly womanizing persona. I mean, it's surprising. Woody Allen says basically he's still He just adored Watch Love and Death. Dick Cavett even said today to us, he

corroborated that. He said Woody Allen worships Bob Hope. In many, many Woody Allen movies, you can see a Bob Hope line delivery, Bob Hope characterization, Bob Hope timing. He would do that cowardly thing. Yeah, Bill Daly, who was a major Healy

on I Am a Genius, it recently came out that he was doing Bob Hope. But not a legend. No. See, now, Bob Hope, what's so weird to watch is you watch the early movies, and he's like a little effeminate and rolling his eyes

and jumping around all over the place. And then by his later movies, he's turned into that Bob Hope. And he's standing there in the scene with the other actors, and it looks like he's looking at the cue cards. And he's standing there just like those specials. His arms by his side and delivering his... And Zoglin, in that he wrote a great book on Hope a couple years ago,

talked about how it became throwaway. And he was trying to sort of act hip and cool to introduce himself to newer audiences in the 60s and 70s it just didn't work and what was the one he made with eva marie saint late in the 70s wasn't i'll take sweden it was one of those that was anita and he made a film with her that was one of these sort of six seven i can't think of the name yeah it's in the book and she just said it's something that i really don't want to boy did i get a wrong number yeah boy did she get a wrong number? Yeah, I think maybe it was that. Boy, did she get a wrong number.

And what used to, as a kid, make me so uncomfortable on these TV specials, they would have like Bob Hope and Lucille Ball dressed as hippies. Or dressed as rock stars. Or she'd be a cheerleader. He'd have fake bazooms and pop pops and you'd watch them and it was like oh you have no

idea of this time period it's cringe worthy yeah it is and you were here Frank we did present

Gilbert with a couple gifts oh my god yes one of them was the actual cassette recording of hopes was the actual cassette recording of Hopes for the

Holidays. And another one was... Wait, it features Jack Frost. Oh, this is gold. And another one was the Christmas ornament that Dolores gave us that I don't want anymore that I gave to Gilbert with all my love. And like I said

to you there, it's one of those gifts that's both great and horrible at the same time. Very scary. Because you look at it and you go, oh my God, I want to smash this fucking thing. What year is this? Because when you sat down with him in Minnesota, it was well before Jack Frost. Oh, yeah. He was at the death's door. And once again, everybody, you owe yourself to look up Pop Hopin' and doing Jack Frost.

You know, if you go to that YouTube page, all the comments say Gilbert and Frank said that. It is. Yeah. On that YouTube page. It is a living nightmare. No, it is. Talk about killing a legacy.

Because he couldn't stop. Yeah. Because he was one of those guys that just had to keep performing. He would show up at Bob's Big Boy all the time, which is like about a mile from where I live. It'd be 4 a.m. He'd be there with his driver eating a sundae. I mean, you could go up to him and, hey, Bob. And I think he was non-compass menace.

I don't know what. He had a publicist, Ward Grant, who always consented for Hope stuff. And years after our last interview, he was still in the early 80s, I was doing some stuff for a radio station in Milwaukee that was sort of the music of your life, playing the classics. You could get Hope on the line when he was 94 years old. Incredible. And he would do the call letters.

We started this show too late. He would parrot damn near anything you asked him to do. When I was looking through your book, all I could think was oh, it would have been great to interview him. It would have been great to interview him. It was killing me.

Killing both of us. You've got a couple of people in there that are hanging on that we'd still like to get. Angie Dickinson and George Hamilton and some of those people. There's about a dozen of the 75 that are still alive. And you had a day with Don Rurkels. Oh, yeah. Don was a great guy. And I got to know his road manager, Tony O.

Yeah, Tony O. Tony O. What a great storyteller he is. And, you know, I mean, you knew Don, right? No, I never met Don Rickles. Oh, I'm sure you would have hit it off. Yeah, I would have loved to have met him. I never had that chance to.

Well, and I mean, I think that's, he's indicative of how humor has changed. First of all, they say you can never have a Don Rickles today. And I think there's some- Probably not. And I think there's some truth to that. But the thing about Don Rickles' humor, it came from a place of love and affection. It didn't come from, I hate so-and-so, so I'm going to rip the shit out of you. And I think that's how things have changed a little bit over the last 30 years.

But it was, again, and I know Gino and i saw don the last time he came into milwaukee and he was already nine you talk about a guy who would be still performing in his mind was sharp the gray goose on the yeah the mind was sharp but first of all there was no there's no there was no diversity left in the audience to you know to do his insult humor he couldn't walk by this point so he would sit in a chair with his cane and half the show was watching clips and the sad part of it is you know you look at him watching those monitors and you could almost tell there was a certain sadness everybody was gone yeah except for his buddy newhart yeah and that's what cavett said to us today he said it's hard to watch those shows with all those iconic actors because he says to

myself, I'm the only one alive. But the thing about Rickles, which was great, and it was just wonderful. I was in the audience when he mocked the hell out of me. I was in the second row. What an honor. You and Gino both insulted

by Don Rickles. But the great thing about it was that he said, you must be Italian. Nothing on you matches. And everything matched. And I'm like, I'm as Italian as Ludovic. Oh, Gilbert loves this. No, it was incredible. And you know what?

The whole audience broke up. They loved it. He could do no wrong. And they couldn't see that I was like as Irish as, you know, whatever Gene Kelly's left butt cheek, but it was insane. So, I mean, he could do no wrong.

He was just an absolute, you know, original with that stuff. I read that Tim Conway went to see Don Rickles and Don Rickles saw him there. And he said, you know, Carol's retired. It's over for you. And said you know uh carol's retired it's over for you

and you know it was sort of like insert the name because you could say that yes he's and was there ever in the history of don rickles career a chinese guy in the third row well the sad part is the only time he could insult a black guy was when there was a black guy in the band because later on there was no one in the audience but he would always give a bottle of champagne to anyone he ever insulted he'd send a bottle of free champagne to the table that he had you know totally opened up on that was his thing at the end of a show. Even his best friend Bob Newhart made light of the fact that in his Vegas and his nightclub routine

for some inexplicable reason Don Rickles did a Jimmy Cagney tribute. Complete with the tap dance. He's doing the whole Yankee doodle. He starred as an impressionist Rickles before he was an insult comic. Yeah, but he was an insult comic.

Yeah, but the impression of George M. Cohen just didn't work. I mean, it was like, oh, my God. Well, and he tells the story of, what was it? Run silent, run deep. Have you heard the story when he and Jack Weston, you know, Clark Gable was the star. Yes. They were in the bunk in the submarine, like, making out, you know out because they knew Gable was going to come in. And Gable came in when they were doing this

and Gable said something like, why don't you two a couple of fags? And they just totally baited Gable. It was great. Let's talk about, let's see, where do I want to go here? We could go so many places. As long as we're on the

subject of comics and one Gilbert did meet and get to know is Jerry Lewis. Oh, yeah. Oh, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. Yeah. He owes us and we're never going to collapse. What happened to that? A hundred bucks. Yeah, he bet you that you could name two lines from Gone with the Wind.

You know, I asked the question and he said, you're a young guy. You don't know crap about movies. You don't know anything about Hollywood lore. And I'm going, you're talking to a wrong little nerd here. And he said, name two lines from Gone with the Wind and I'll give you a hundred bucks. I said, I don't know about birth and no babies. And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

And then I and then he silence. And then I said so when can I get the money? He said come by the stage door after I welched on the back. He told me skip town. Gilbert it was one of those he came to this Carlton celebrity room

in Minneapolis and we were college students at the newspaper there and we got the cheap $10 balcony seats a bunch of us, because we always had this sort of perverse interest in Jerry Lewis. Of course, he couldn't sell any tickets, so they all moved us all down to the front.

Of course, he was doing the conducting shtick, the typewriter, and the music would fail and he'd start yelling at the crew. I mean, it was just total Jerry. No, and it was the most un-PC part of his comedy act. He said, do you know how the Chinese name their kids?

And he threw up some stones and they hit the symbols. Ping, pang, chung, fang, chung. And I was like, oh my God, Gilbert. That's less PC than your act. No, I was like, oh my God, Gilbert. That's less PC than your act. No, I was like, we were shocked. But the thing I love is that Jerry Lewis is one of those people I can use the classic line, well, he was always nice to me. Yeah.

And I was one of those. I liked you. That line says so much. It says a lot. I love that in the book he says... Oh, I heard that too from Kathleen Freeman. Oh, yeah. Great character actress.

And she also said, well, he was always nice to me. He gave her a lot of work. The ladies' man, among others. But, you know, Harry Warren, the great composer from Hollywood, he composed all kinds, 42nd Street. Warren and Dubin. Warren and dubin he said that he would turn on the telethon every year he had wrote that's amore for dean martin and jerry lewis and he said he'd turn on the telethon every year just to see if jerry lewis is as big of an

ass as he remembered back in the 50s and he he was never disappointed. Because Harry Warren, when the musicals were dying down, the only paychecks he could get was he did Cinderfella. He did The Caddy. And he wrote the music to those Martin and Lewis films. So you saw that total prick side.

He didn't like cerebral comedy. He said there was too much cerebral comedy. Yes, exactly. Yeah, he hated that stuff. Need more slapstick. So he said, there's not enough high-lying

voice. You know what your comedy needs is a little five-in-my-hole. The eternal five-year-old. It's true.

It's true. Oh, God. One of the touching things in the book is how well you guys were treated The eternal five-year-old. It's true. It's true. Oh, God. One of the touching things in the book is how well you guys were treated by some of our favorite character actors. And in booking this show, we find that we have a lot of luck with character actors. Oh, yes. Tim Matheson, Peter Rieger, Joe Pantoliano. Yes. Oh, Dick Miller.

Dick Miller, Peter Rieger. So you guys sat down with Ernest Borgnine, Eli Wallach, and one of Gilbert's favorites, Rod Steiger. Oh, yes. Yeah, Rod was great. He was one of the most fascinating interviews we ever did. It was over three hours, and it was the only interview in our 40-year career that we voluntarily ended because it was getting dark.

He was in the patio of his Malibu estate way above the ocean and he was sitting in a, you know, half robed in this, you know, bathrobe. And after a while, the sun set

and we couldn't see him. We just saw the white robe pulsating. He looked like Casper, the friendly ghost. So we saw his head reflecting on the moon. It was crazy. And he was amazing.

Great anecdotes about, you know, Gary Cooper, Marlon Brando, James Dean. He loved bogey. He was, you know,

he would tell us to stop the recorder when we'd ask about any of these. And at first we were like, oh my God, what, is he pissed at us?

And then he'd do this zen-like thing. He'd get into this trance for like maybe 30 seconds and then he'd say, turn it on. And then he would just give this-like thing. He'd get into this trance for like maybe 30 seconds, and then he'd say, turn it on. And then he would just give this great, verbatim, wonderful quote about whatever the star we asked about. It was great.

I remember, oh, I think it was Thick of the Night. They wanted to film some funny sketch of like their, you know, land on Rodott steiger's house they break into his house and they the a guy who's there at the shoot said to me he said that rott steiger didn't want them to leave he wanted people to talk to oh absolutely i mean he was incredible and and he said his whole reason for being the reason we he got into movies and up until the day we met him when he was incredible. And he said his whole reason for being the reason he got into movies and up until the day we met him when he was in his late 70s, he was trying to get respect. It was so that the Steiger name would be nice and out of context.

And his mother, too. His mother, yeah. They said that, I remember he said this in a few interviews, that he used to get called from, like like the bar to go pick up his pubs and take them home. In New Jersey. In Newark. Yeah, absolutely. You know, when he was telling stories about Gary Cooper, he told how they were doing a reenactment on the Ed Sullivan show when they were in a movie together, the court martial Billy Mitchell.

And he said that Cooper was just sweating bullets. He was very nervous. This was late in his life and career. But he said while he got through gamely doing that bit, he said he had no problem in the dressing room with Elizabeth Montgomery during the filming of that movie. Yeah, they had to crowbar him. So Gary Cooper was still working it. Maybe that's why he had the heart attack. Toward the end.

Wow. So Gary Cooper was still working it. Maybe that's why he had the heart attack. Toward the end. I found it interesting that he told you guys, if I weren't an actor, I'd be some mean drunk that got stabbed in a bar. Absolutely. Yeah, and that was all a testament to his mother, who he'd be called out of high school up to the front of the class, and they'd say, Rod, you've got to pick your mother up. She's dead drunk at a bar in downtown newark and he felt so embarrassed so shattered and that was the whole respect thing that's how

it started and he said i i will never you know countenance the disrespect of the steiger name my whole life good for him has been and i think credit to him he got an oscar and he's one of the i think he deserves to be mentioned. I'm glad we're talking about him because here's a guy, very few American actors could do dialects better than him.

Yes, yes. And he won an Oscar for In the Heat of the Night. Sure did. And the indignity came when he was trying to resurrect his career to pay the bills

because he had young kids and he made a movie with Sylvester Stallone and Sharon Stone called The Specialist. And he said, before I could get that job, I had to sit in the opulent office of a young 34-year-old studio executive who had the nerve to ask me, can you do a Southern accent? And he said, you putz.

I was like, you know, I want an Oscar for Heat of the Night. You know, you idiot. It's like that story I told you on the phone about Shelley Winters, and I hope it's not apocryphal. No. That's that a young executive asked her what she's done, and she reached into a shopping bag and took out her Oscar. Yeah, right. And put it on the desk. He also said that his favorite movie of all time was The Pawnbroker. Gilbert?

Yes. Gilbert Loza. It was a great movie. And he said he was mistaken for years for being Jewish, but he said he was the only Lutheran in a Jewish neighborhood in Newark. So he learned from all his Jewish friends sort of what the milieu was, and that held him in good stead. Everybody assumed he was Jewish after that movie. Right. And he also, I heard, had like a crippling depression.

He totally did. When we interviewed him, you know, and this was like maybe a couple of years after we interviewed him, I'm looking closely at the photos that we took. And he has a little, it was a silver ornament on his, not a cross or anything like that, but like a little ornament. And it was of the little prince. like that, but like a little ornament. And it was of the little prince. And when we asked, we had asked him during the interview, whatever got you through your depression? And he said, it was the, the, the, uh, the story of the little prince by St. Exupery. He said, anyone who's suffering crippling depression should read that book and it'll get them through. And it was years and years later that we saw, Oh my God, he has a little prince thing, you know, around his neck.

It was amazing. And I just I just met him once. I spoke briefly with and he told me that story. That's a famous story when he was doing the cab scene in on the waterfront. Yeah. And usually the actor, if they care, if they're professional, they stand behind the camera while the other one's doing their close up. And Brando just went home. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. And he said, I didn't speak to him for 20 years. I love that impression. Well, and Eva Marie Saint, who won her Oscar for that film, her film debut, sort of was caught in the middle. She's in the book. Yeah. And she loved Brando.

She certainly liked Rod, but Rod would not let that go. And that sort of bothered Eva Marie that he would never let go of this dislike or this problem he had with Brando. Terrific actor. I love him in No Way to Treat a Lady. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a great one. Pawnbroker, The Loved One.

He's one of those actors. Rottsteiger is one of those actors, much like Al Pacino, who, whether it's a great performance or a bad performance, it's so enjoyable. Yeah. It's interesting. It's riveting. Yeah. It's a weird thing.

He's one of the few actors that really would come clean about roles that they lost or that they turned down. He said he was the first choice for Patton. And he said, sometimes I regret that I turned that down, but other times I'm in an anti-war mood and I'm glad that I didn't take that role. I think he always felt that had he done Patton, they would have given him the godfather. That makes sense. Very interesting.

Tell us about a much happier guy. Ernest Borgnine. Ernie. Well, yeah. I mean. A love of life kind of guy. Yeah. Right.

You know, we got to know Ernie because he became a regular every year at the Milwaukee Circus Parade. And that happened because he was on Carson in the early 1970s promoting the Poseidon Adventure. And Carson said, Ernie, you've played damn near every role in your career. Is there anything you haven't played? And he said, you know, I've never been a circus clown. So there was this PR guy in Milwaukee who puts on this annual circus parade. They don't have it anymore. And he got on the phone to Ernie and said, guess what? I can make you a circus clown.

So for about 25 years, every year, he and the lovely Tova, his wife. Yes, Tova Borgman. But Ernie loved his role as a supporting actor. And, you know, we talk about Steiger. There is a good transition because Steiger played Marty. Oh, yes. Very good. Good transition.

But Steiger was looked at as being a bit difficult. And so they gave the role to Ernest Borgnine, who ended up winning the Oscar for it. But one of our favorite films is The Wild Bunch, the Sam Peckinpah film. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. Yeah, there's that famous scene where William Holden and what's his, Ryan? Yeah, Robert Ryan. Robert Ryan.

They all go into the brothel in Mexico. And then there's the scene of Ernie outside of the brothel whittling a piece of wood. So, of course, film historians are making up that he was gay and that it's a phallic symbol and what have you.

And I asked, we asked Ernie about it and he does that big hearty laugh. And he says, no, I was just finished first. Well, and then the story, I don't know if the people know the story of how he got McHale's. You know that story? Yes, yes, I know this one. Okay, so the interesting thing was, of course, back in those days, if you were a film star, it was considered a step down to go into television. Not so much now. So some kid went to his door selling candy for a local Little League or what have you, and he

looks at him, and he goes, aren't you James Arness? And he goes, no. Arness was the big star of Gunsmoke. And then he said, he looked at him again, and he says, aren't you Richard Boone? You know, who was then in Have Gun, Will Travel. That's right, Paladin. Yeah. So Ernie was dejected.

His ego was bruised. The kid, he buys the food or whatever the kid was selling. He gets back to the agent and he says, is that McHale's Navy role still available? And the agent says, yes. He says, I'll take it. Wow. And from that moment on, after McHale, he said it didn't matter whatever he did

in film, everywhere in the world he went, the greeting was, how you doing, McHale? Good for him. Well, he was one of those actors that still was able to make features, too. And we had on John Amos. And John Amos worked with him. Future Cop?

I think it was Future Cop. Oh, yeah. They worked together and John Amos worked with Future Cop? I think it was Future Cop. Oh yeah. They worked together and John Amos said like at times during the filming it would hit him. He's working with Ernest Borgnine. He'd look over at him and suddenly be on. And he would stare at him in the middle of the scene.

He was just again a great guy. I heard that they once had a reunion of the Poseidon Adventure and Ernest Borgnine walked in and he was all hunched over. His hands were shaking. He was like wheezing for breath and holding on to a chair. And then everyone was looking at him going, oh, my God, he's going to die soon. And then Ernest Borgnine stopped, stood up straight and yelled, you thought I got old, huh? Or maybe it was Shelley Winters. I mean, I don't know.

Could have been. Wow. And then he made that one of his last films with that David Zucker film called Basketball. Yes. Remember that? Yes. We had David here. And then he even was in cartoons toward the end.

Yeah. Yeah. He had a nice long career. And a lot of people loved him. Yeah. Nice, likable guy. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this.

Okay. In the time that we have left, and of course we're never going to get to everybody here. I want to talk about it. Man, she was so hot. Yeah, maybe we can get her on the line here, you know. Gilbert, let's ask about two TV stars that we've talked about on the show. Ted Knight, because it's a really sweet story. And Peter Falk, two wonderful guys that you got to sit down with.

Yeah, Ted Knight was great. We interviewed him on the set of Too Close for Comfort, the show we did after the Mary Tyler Moore show. Exactly. And he was just a wonderful guy. And Dave and I had been out here for maybe two, two and a half weeks, and we were running low on our kick, which we needed to do.

Yeah, we didn't know if we'd be able to pay the hotel bill. So we kind of, in a weak moment, said, Ted, yeah, we're kind of destitute. We weren't angling for anything. And he said, well, you guys, if I can help you out, I will. And he ripped out a check, a blank check, and gave it to us and said, write in any amount you want to, and it's no problem. And being the Midwestern Minnesota rubes

that we were, we didn't do it. We gave him back the check. Idiots. Ted Baxter gave you a blank check. Exactly. And we didn't take it. So you could have retired. We could have retired. Another well-loved guy who had success late in his career because he was a bit player

forever. He always played the Nazis in the 80s. Or a courtroom guard. Exactly. In combat. Both John Amos and Ed Asner. Yeah, we had them both on the show. And both raved about watching him

do a scene. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Ed Asner told us that Ted Knight, in between takes of Mary Tyler Moore, was the funniest guy you'd ever want in a room. He absolutely cracked everyone up. Mary, everybody. He just was so funny. They used to sit on the sidelines just to watch him.

Him and Gavin McLeod. Just sit there and envy what he could do. Yeah. He's a great guy, isn't he, though? Yeah. Fantastic. We love him. I think in the book, Ted Knight tells a story that to audition for parts, he learned one piece of dialogue, you know, one whole page of dialogue in German.

Yeah. Yeah. He played so many Nazis. Yeah. Yeah. And then it wound up like what he was saying is, you know, gee, I think I'll get a haircut. Something benign. Right.

Exactly. And he'd get the rolls, you know? I mean. He was a showbiz survivor. He was a puppeteer. He was a ventriloquist. He did everything in showbiz before he made it. You know, like Leslie Nielsen.

Same. Who toiled for decades before The Naked Gun and Airplane. Falk was a great, you know, another one. I mean, you know, at the time we saw him, he was really into his painting. He did a lot of charcoal paintings, and I don't know whatever happened to him. But he certainly was well aware that his legacy was always going to be Columbo. He showed you his Emmys on the shelf. Yeah.

But again, you know, here's a you his Emmys on the shelf. Yeah. Yeah. And, but again, you know, here's a guy who was a terrific character. Absolutely. Yes. Well beyond what he did in Columbo.

But he also was chain smoking. Yeah. He was a human smudge pot when we met him. I mean, it was just, you know, ashes everywhere. I mean, it was crazy.

He couldn't kick those cigarettes. No, no. And he, he used the excuse that my mom's 90 and still alive. Well, that was his excuse. Did people yell serpentine to him in the streets?

They would see him. We weren't in the streets, but that would have been a good question to ask him. Him and Arkin, yeah. I love that he referred to Columbo as an ass-backward Sherlock Holmes. What's so horrible is him toward the end, because, you know, I mean,

when Rita Hayworth got Alzheimer's, there was no internet. Yeah. Right. With Peter Falk, there was an internet, and it was all over the place. Yeah, yeah. Him wandering in the street yelling at people.

Yeah, I think they figured it was just forgetfulness from Columbo or something. I don't know. Part of his character. But yeah, it was sad. It was sad. Yeah. Okay, do you guys want to tell us about Capra, which I found fascinating?

Oh, my God. Do you want to tell us about Cagney? Cagney? Which one do you want? I'll take Capra. What, do we flip a coin? Okay. Yeah, can we see Cagney naked?

No, Capra. Capra. Capra, we saw naked. Yes. How did you know? Gilbert. Capra, you're prescient. It's amazing. It's with a vet debut.

No. Oh, my God. Capra did not do anything to us naked like a vet did. No. In fact, he almost towel whipped us because he had a weird towel around himself. Cagney didn't run into the room and go, stop looking at my dick. Which, you know, he had a pair at that point. But no, no, it was Capra we interviewed in Minneapolis.

Came to Minnesota. Came to Minnesota for a film festival. It was the dead of winter. It was about 10 degrees below zero. And he came like he was teeing off at Palm Springs at the 18th fairway at La Quinta. He had no coat. I mean, it was like, it was incredible. I mean, you know, like engine blocks were falling out of cars and he's, he's like, you know, practically in a bathing suit. And what we did was we kidnapped him from this film festival

because we were never going to be able to interview him going through stages with the film people. So we just went up to his room. Back then, we went to the desk and, you know, we asked, well, what room is Mr. Capper in? And they gave it to us. It was like a kinder, gentler America. They didn't care. So we knocked on his door, got no answer. We went back down and got like a hotel dick with a master key because we were worried.

We go back up. He opens up the door and campers in the shower screaming at us. He's screaming. He's like swearing in Italian. The little Sicilian. He is nude. No, it's great. He's like, you know, God damn.

He's going to be 83 years old. He was 83. Yeah, he's 83. He's going insane. So we beat a hasty retreat. And then we have the gall to wait for him in the lobby thinking we can still get an interview. He comes

down just sputtering. He's pissed. And then we say, Mr. Capra, can you do an interview with us? And he's like, alright. Let's go eat. And so we take him all over Minnesota. We take him all over.

We took him five times across the Mississippi River. It's a great story. One of the best things in the book. Yeah, because he wanted to see the Mark Twain's River. It was the crux of Twain. He said, we had to put a little boat cushion under his butt because he was so little. And so he could see out the window. He opens the window.

Remember, it's like 10 below zero and he's like five times we go over the river and he's like waxing rhapsodic about the Mississippi River. I'm trying to wrap my mind around you guys driving around in sub-zero temperatures with Frank Kapper in the backseat. It's insane! And then he wanted to go to church so we take

him to the, you know, the cathedral, St. Paul Cathedral. It was right after the hostages from Iran had been let out. They had the My Country Tis of Thee as the recessional hymn and they had all these lyric sheets, like eight verses. Capra knew

every verse without looking at the lyric sheets. He knew them by heart. Like the ultimate American. It was a patriot. He loved his country. About eight hours later, we get them back to the coordinator of the Minnesota Film Festival, and she's pissed at us. She's looking at us like she's going to kill us.

And Capra, you know, an old silent film writer, gag guy, kind of looks at us, lets us twist in the wind for about three seconds, and then says, well, I had the greatest tour from two of the top flight tour guides in the state.

And so we were off the hook. It was great. Nice ending. Exactly. We couldn't hope for anything better. By the way, you'll have to read, I'll say to our listeners, you'll have to get the book for this, but he tells you a fantastic Ernest Hemingway story from the backseat of the car. So if there are Ernest Hemingway fans, when you read it, you may not be.

You might not be a fan of Hemingway after. There's a million names that we could pick off these cards here, but tell us about you want to hear about Cagney or Mickey Rooney, Gilbert? Oh, well, Mickey Rooney I heard's a major league prick. Not anymore. I heard he was

a major leaguer. Certifiably crazy. You didn't know if any anecdote or story he was telling you was true. You never knew. But, Tom, tell the story about the woman came up to us at the hotel when we were interviewing. Yeah, we were at the Westlake Marriott out in the middle of nowhere, the western end of the valley. And, you know, I'm sitting, we're both sitting there in the lobby and waiting for him. And it's like 20 minutes.

And then he comes huffing and puffing in this, yale cap like you never went to yale and he's running in and he's totally sweating he's like a red mess and he's like my car ran out of gas on the freeway i had to run here we're like okay well whatever we sit down in the lobby where people are checking in on these like you know in these couches waiting and And then this woman, like a raptor starts to circle us like a vulture. Like she kind of recognizes him but doesn't really quite recognize him. She comes up to us and

then she goes to Mickey. Aren't you? Oh, I love your films, aren't you? Dear, dear, get away from me. I'm doing an interview. Can't you see this? Get the hell out of here. She's an autograph seeker. Oh my God, I mean, like his only fan. He told her to go to hell. I couldn't away from me i'm doing an interview can't you see this get the hell out of here oh my god i mean like his only fan he told her to go to hell i couldn't believe it i couldn't believe it i heard a story about mickey rooney that he was in some public place and you know a crowd was gathering

lining up to get his autograph and among them in the crowd was a guy really handicapped in a like an electric wheelchair strapped in and and looking very like shaking and everything and uh mickey rooney yelled out hey get him up ahead of the line i want to shake your hand and give you an autograph and they moved him up and he signed the autograph and then Mickey Rooney leans over to one of the guys working for him and he goes

now get him the fuck out of here oh man that sounds like he might have said that Gilbert you need to do your own Hollywood Legends part. It won't be as heartwarming as Dave and Tom's. Will you do the forward to our second friend? Yeah, exactly. There's a perfect segue.

Let's end on the bitterness of Jack Carter. We'll have to come back and talk about Cagney and others. We'll make him read the book. Yeah, make him read the book. The Cagney and others. We'll make him read the book. Yeah, make him read the book. The Cagney stuff and the Gregory Peck stuff in the book and Robert Stacks and his car for you guys. Really nice. Or DeForest Kelly wanting to meet at a Scandi Navy rescue. The DeForest Kelly story is funny.

And Tony Curtis, too. So Jack Carter, we saw him when he was already 90, 91 years old, toward the end. He still lived in the same home on Chevy Chase Drive in Beverly Hills. Nice real estate. Although we characterized it as a teardown because he had never touched the home in about 40 years. But he was so embittered

he said to us I'm so sorry we didn't get him. The tour buses, he said come by the house and point to next door where Joey Bishop lives. I'm still alive. I'm still alive. And they ignore me.

He goes, when these comedians die, the news media calls everyone but me to get a quote. And the sick thing, the nail in the coffin was a week later, he phoned me. I live out in L. in LA and he said, Tom, I want you to do my autobiography. I have scores to settle. They'll never work again. I said, sorry, Jack. I don't have time.

It was like I refused to do an autobiography. It was like the final nail in the coffin. It would have been the most bitter book in the history. It would have been the title, The Bitter Book by Jack Carter. What is this about Durante and Groucho that he claimed? That's in the book? It's already good.

He said something about Durante, about Groucho said to him when he was really old and losing it. He said something about, why do you wear that stupid hat or something? According to the book, Groucho would say to him, why don't you die already? Which I can't imagine. I know Groucho had a dark side and then something. I can't quite imagine.

I'm glad Frank knows the book better than we do. Cover to cover twice. Wonderful, thank you. And he thought Johnny Carson was an anti-Semite? Yeah, based on what? Well, the fact, you know, Johnny was, you know, in his New York days, Johnny drank a lot. Yeah. It's a bad drug.

Yeah, it was an angry drug. Yeah. So apparently, according to Carter, he was with another Jewish comedian, Jan Murray. And... Phil Brent's loving this. And Johnny was spewing anti-Semitic stuff to Jan Murray

and Carter after he came out of a restaurant he said are you Jews going into that restaurant oh my god and then like

Jan Murray beat the shit out of Carter allegedly allegedly I mean you've seen Jan Murray I mean could he

beat a fly it was amazing not anymore I'd love to watch Jan Murray beat a fly. Classic. There's a lot of sweetness in the book, as we talked about. And the Robert Stack one, and I'll let people buy the book, and it's great.

But there's also a wonderful helping of bitterness, which we're talking about. Also, Jackie Coogan, who sat down with Uncle Fester. He's ripping into Chevy Chase for no reason whatsoever. And he sticks us with the bill, of course. He drank eight iced teas. And he didn't go to the bathroom. I mean, it was amazing. I couldn't believe the bladder control.

He had a cheese mushroom omelet, and he had no bottom teeth. It was spewing out between the teeth. It was on our glasses. No, it was talking, it was spewing out between the teeth. It was on her glasses. Oh my God. Let me tell them some of the other people in the book too. And there's some more offbeat interviews. Al Hirschfeld, Julius Epstein, the writer of Casablanca,

the Nicholas Brothers, for Christ's sakes, you found. Mel Blanc, and we talked on the phone, Louis Marx. The toy king. Oh God, but Mel Blanc. That talked on the phone Louis Marks yeah the toy king oh god but Mel Blanc that's someone I would have loved

yeah what a talent you know his voice was like Barney Rubble's his real voice that was his speaking voice he talked just like Barney Rubble

and the people you didn't get or the people you didn't put in the book I should say the Ned Fabre Sheldon Leonard you met with he's not in the book

Alan Hale. Ray Walston hated My Favorite Martian. Yeah, but you notice he had no problem doing the sequel that was made years later when they wrote him a nice check. Yes, yes. There's so much good stuff in there. There's so many people we didn't get to. And it's fine. Is it 250?

What do you put the number at? Roughly about 250. You know, we've, your listeners will be happy to know we don't pursue contemporary actors or actresses. And the reason we don't. Like our show in book form. Yeah. Exactly. Because we live in the past like you guys. Yeah.

And we just, this is sort of the bow. This book is the package and the bow because working with publicists and contemporary stars and the gauntlet that you have to go to to get access, just it's not fun anymore. Yeah. We had a great time doing this. Yeah. I'll tell you, we've almost had about 250 guests on this show. And in reading the book and doing this show, I've come to a conclusion. People are fucking nuts.

Yes. Yes. That's a true statement. No dispute. Jack Carter we missed by like a day. Just missed him. He agreed to do the show. I think he died just to get out of doing the show. And then like the next day.

You would have had fun. You also have songwriters in here. Sammy Kahn. Gilbert and I talk about Billy May. One of Rayburn's favorites. Hoagie Carmichael, for Christ's sake. There's so many people in this book. There's so many wonderful interviews. I don't know how you got Robert Wagner to do a foreword for you, but that's also a coup.

Yeah. And so you want to plug it one more time? Okay. The book is Hollywood Hay Day, 75 Cand interviews with golden age legends. And the authors are David Fantel and Tom Johnson, who saw Yvette Minou's pussy. Don't you realize we're in the Me Too era? Oh, no. Oh, they spoke to Gregory Peck, too.

Who cares? Gregory Peck. Who cares? They did see a Batman News pussy. Oh, and they may have met Charlie Chaplin. Who the fuck cares? Let's end on that note. It'll end us, that's for sure.

Guys, listen, the show we do is a labor of love. Obviously, this book is. Definitely. We can't believe what you guys pulled off. No, thank you. Well, I'm going to be pulling it off to you. T-M-I, Gilbert. So get the book, everybody.

The Lucille Ball story, we teased. We didn't give you that one either. You got to get the book. And we want to thank the person who Gilbert refuses to name on this show. The great Gino Salamone. Yes, Gino. For bringing you guys. We love you, Gino.

We love you, Gino. And this was a real hoot, so thank you. Thank you, guys. It's been great fun. Yeah, it's been great. There's no people like show people. They don't run out of dough. Angels come from everywhere with lots of jack.

And when you lose, it has no attack. Where could you get money that you don't give back? Let's go on with the show. There's no business like show business if you tell me it's so Traveling through the country is so thrilling

Standing out in front on opening nights Smiling as you watch the benches filling And see your billing out there in lights There's no people like show people. They smile when they are low. Even with a turkey that you know will fold.

You may be stranded out in the cold. Still you wouldn't change it for a sack of gold. Let's go on with the show. Let's go on with the show. Let's go on with the show. Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre, with audio production by Frank Verderosa Web and social media is handled by

Mike McPadden, Greg Pair and John Bradley-Seals Special audio contributions by John Beach Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray and Paul Rayburn Thank you.