Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 251. Kliph Nesteroff

Episode Date: March 18, 2019

Historian, bestselling author and "King of Comedy Lore" Kliph Nesteroff returns to the podcast to serve up an all-new assortment of scandalous showbiz tales and to hold court on a host of essential topics, including Hollywood's flirtation with fascism, the strange predilections of Bud Abbott and George Jessel, the mob's iron grip on the nightclub circuit and the rise and fall of celebrity fast food franchises. Also, Stu Gilliam goes berserk, Rock Hudson "marries" Jim Nabors, Groucho runs afoul of the FBI and Kliph gets a surprise phone call from Steve Martin. PLUS: The Mad Russian! Mickey Rooney's Weenie World! Hitler vs. the Three Stooges! Jerry Lewis pulls a gun! And Sammy Davis Jr. joins the Church of Satan! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Spring is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no.

But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box van? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now.

Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. This is Andrew Bergman, and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. Hi, this is Gilbert Godfrey, and this is Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is an old friend who's returning to the podcast once again to educate, entertain us, and enlighten us about everything.

From Hal Roach's collaborations with Mussolini to Fred Allen's dislike of Eddie Cantor, to Ted Healy's outright hatred of Georgie Jessel, and much, much more. He's a former comedian, a historian, a producer and TV host, an occasional podcaster, and the author of a best-selling book that we consider the Bible here at the show, The Comedians, Drunks, Thieves, Scoundrels, and the History of American Comedy, which received rave reviews and was selected as the book of the year by the National Post and LA Times.

He was a consulting producer on CNN's History of Comedy whenever that show was on the air. It was on about 600 times. Yeah, yeah. Well, it would be on once and 10 10 months later, it would be on again. That's right. And then it would come back on another channel at a totally different time.

It was hard to keep up with. The Spike Jonze produced Funny How and the host of his very own podcast, Classic Showbiz with Cliff Nasal Nose. He's going to do that again, Cliff. Can't wait. What was that, Cliff Nasal Nose? Nasal Nose. Oh, Drew will be so happy. Oh, Drew will be so happy.

He's interviewed everyone from Mel Brooks to Steve Martin, as well as our former podcast guests, George Slaughter, Buck Henry, Bernie Capel, Ronnie Shell, and Dick Cavett, just to name a few. Welcome back to the podcast, the man that Vice Magazine once called the human encyclopedia of comedy, and a man who claims that former Wizard of Oz munchkin, Jerry Marin, was once hired to pee on the legendary Jimmy Stewart. Please welcome to the show the incomparable Colin Noselnoff. You don't know what an honor that is, Cliff. I do know what an honor that is. Thank you so much. To have your name mangled.

Cliff, the great Cliff Nesteroff is here, is back with us. How the hell are you and where are you? Tell our listeners. I am in Nelson, British Columbia. I love that. I'm up as it were because I'm not American. I have to renew all my immigration papers. So I have to be outside of the country for a few months until that's done.

And in the meantime, I'm in my hometown of Nelson, British Columbia, famous for being the shooting location for the Steve Martin movie, Roxanne. So when I was five years old, the first introduction to show business I ever had was watching Steve Martin walk around my hometown with a prosthetic nose. I watched on the sidelines that entire movie being made. I love that. As a child. I just saw Steve Martin perform last night. He played the banjo. He played a sad banjo at Ricky Jay's memorial service here in New York. Yeah, it was very, very, very touching. Before we jump into anything else,

I think Gilbert wants to know the Jerry Marin peeing on Jimmy Stewart story. So Jimmy Stewart at one point said, could you get a famous mid major to pee on me first? I think it was for Jimmy Stewart's birthday party. And some of his friends hired, I believe, Jerry Marin and Billy Curtis, the two little people of that era who were very prominent. I think this was in the 1950s. And Billy Barty was on location somewhere? It may have been Billy Barty.

I'm going off the top of my head. I can't remember if it was Billy Curtis or Billy Barty, but regardless, Jerry Marin and another one of those fellas were hired to jump out of a birthday cake like a dancing girl, but in a diaper and then drop the diaper and start urinating on Jimmy Stewart at his birthday party. Now, did Jimmy Stewart request this? Was he into getting peed on? I don't know if he was into it, but it was a surprise birthday present for him.

And that's according to Jerry Marion's autobiography. So straight from the source. You got that, Gil? That's your opening Jerry Marion's autobiography. So straight from the source. You got that, Gil? That's your opening show gift. Yeah. He was in a diaper and paid to pee on Jimmy Stewart. So, but we don't know if Jimmy Stewart wanted it or not. He may have developed a taste for it later on after that.

I was on the phone with Cliff last night and I told him about, he did not know about, surprisingly, because I thought he knew absolutely everything. Once in a while, we stump him, about the Valanche story about Joan Crawford peeing on David Niven, which he was unfamiliar with. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd never heard that before. Yeah. Add that to the collection. Now, oh, yeah. Go ahead, Gil.

No, no, no. um now oh yeah go ahead no no no i i i'm just stuck on jimmy stewart getting peed on by famous midgets do you guys have a do you guys have a list of all the people that who are into that i mean no not handy not not our i we moved offices so our violence it's in. It's in the old file. Oh, my God. Tell us what you've been up to since we last saw you. You tried your hand at a podcast that Marc Maron produced. Oh, yeah. I don't know how you guys crank out these podcasts two a week. I could

never do it. I did four episodes of my podcast over the course of two years, and that's been it, but it's available there on the same Stitcher app. The Stitcher platform. But it was called Classic Showbiz, and it was a lot of work, man. It was like top-heavy production values, scripted, just stories from the history of comedy and the history of show business, one about the mafia, one about a gay comedian in the 30s who was openly gay, a guy named Ray Bourbon, and an episode about comedians in LSD, about George Carlin and Richard Pryor,

how they did psychedelics in the 60s and that changed things. The one thing about that show that might be of interest to your listeners is that I use the actual audio from the interviews i did in research for the comedian so when i'm talking about comedians in the mafia i throw it to jack carter and then jack carter tells a story on the podcast so if you want to hear the voices of some of these people yes absolutely showbiz yeah now now that brings us to a story that i think everyone wants to hear again. And that's that Marlon Brando fucked Richard Pryor in the ass.

Do you know anything about this, Cliff? Well, I just found out about it at the same time everybody found out about it. You know, it's a shot heard around the world. We all heard it at the same time. I know Rain Pryor was really mad about that story. Yes, she was. I know Rain Pryor was really mad about that story. Yes, she was. Marlon Brando, definitely bisexual by most accounts, but the Pryor story was new to me.

That may have been why Richard Pryor was so enraged. Do you know the story about what happened at the Hollywood Bowl in the late 70s with Richard Pryor? He was booked on a show that was like— Refresh us. he was booked on a show that was like refreshes it was like a gay rights activist type of event in the late 70s and they booked all these sort of uh allies of the gay and lesbian community like tab hunter and lily tomlin and they booked richard prior and richard prior went on this crazy rant for like 10 minutes yelling the word fag and going off and it was front page news the next day um but maybe he had just had that encounter with marlon brando and kind of felt like ashamed about it i don't know but it was a big big story where there was like a campaign

against richard bryer there i think it's 76 or 77 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well at some point in the show and by the way cliff has brought us a fresh list of scandals, Gilbert. You're going to be very happy. Oh, excellent. He was like Christmas morning. He emailed me a list. I can't wait. Well, yeah, that's what I've mostly been up to since the last time I saw you guys, is sort of researching that kind of stuff.

Yeah. You know, and one of the things that I discovered, maybe you had heard about this before, do you know about the incident between stu gilliam the axe and alan hale jr you know that story we'd heard this story well yeah i think gino knows this story because he knew alan hale jr yeah but it's who's who's the axe huh who the axe stu gilliam the black comic yeah an axe you You mean a physical axe. Oh, an axe. Oh, I thought that was some wrestler or something. The axe.

Oh, my God. So Stu Gilliam and Alan Hale Jr., best known as Skipper on Gilligan's Island. For the uninitiated, tell the story. Well, Alan Hale Jr., like a lot of celebrities in the late 60s and early 70s he opened his own restaurant it was on las yanaga boulevard in beverly hills i remember hills in hollywood right and so it was like a family restaurant with a drawing of him on the sign and you get matches that had a picture of alan hale jr on it you know and at the time st Stu Gilliam, who had started his career as one of the few, maybe one of the many black ventriloquists on the Chitlin circuit, along with Willie Tyler and Lester, along with a guy named Richard and Willie, and along with a guy named Aaron Williams, who appeared on an episode of the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour. Gilliam was the fourth of the African-American ventriloquists in that era before he went into straight stand-up.

And, you know, he appeared on many game shows and did voices of cartoons, late 60s, early 70s. His career was on the way up. He had done the Hollywood Palace as a stand-up. Larry Gelbart hired him to star in a new series that was sort of the unofficial all-black version of MASH. Oh, Rollout. Yeah, it was called Rollout. Yes. It starred Stu Gilliam. At that time, there were all these sort of black versions of white shows.

It was sort of a trend. There was a black version of The Odd Couple that was live on the stage. There was a black version of Barefoot in the Park. And then there was the... Yeah, there was... They did a TV version of The Odd Couple. DeMond Wilson and Ron Silver. Ron Glass.

Ron Glass, I mean. From Barney Miller. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So this was part of that trend. Rollout took place during World War II instead of the Korean War.

But it was basically an all-black version of MASH, also created by Larry Gelbart, featured people like Garrett Morris in the cast before Saturday Night Live. So Stu Gilliam starred in this show he was on the front page of a lot of like parade magazine and regional tv guides it was a big deal and got got decent ratings ran about four episodes and then stew gilliam went out for dinner at alan hale's lobster barrel and when he showed up i love this already when he showed up the maitre d said i'm I'm sorry, sir, there's no seats available. And Stu Gilliam said something to the effect of, don't you know who I am? I'm the star of the hit sitcom Rollout.

And the maitre d' said, I'm sorry, sir, we can't seat you. There's no seats here at Alan Hale's Lobster Bar. Alan Hale's Lobster Bar was doing well. Yeah. So, Stu Gilliam went back to his car, got an axe out of the trunk of the car, and came back and attacked the maitre d' with an axe. It became this huge tabloid story story it was in all the press it was in jet magazine and just like today when something goes crazy on twitter and everybody's like

calling for the person to be fired same thing they ended up um deciding that stew gilliam was too much of a liability so they canceled rollout because of this incident. Unbelievable. They took him off the show and then canceled the show. Did you know this story, Gilbert? No. That's great. It's gold.

That's great. It's gold. And did Alan Hale Jr. ever have any say in the matter? Did he press charges? I don't know. There's no follow-up in the news reports that I've read about that. I'm assuming they didn't press charges. Otherwise, it would have been in the news. But Alan Hale Jr., they didn't mention it, but he may have been there because supposedly he would hang out at his own restaurant all the time and answer the phone. I have friends from Los Angeles. When they were kids, they would always crank call Alan Hale's Lobster Barrel because they wanted to hear him.

They wanted to talk to Alan Hale. They always answered the phone. That's grand. I love that. We'll get into the stories. There are so many of them. But I want you to just – I don't know that people know this about you, too, that you you started as a comic and i was asking you what your act was like and i was intrigued yeah yeah well i had a couple acts i did an act as myself in my own voice like a normal comedian and that act was

always unpopular never went well and then i had another act that i did in character that destroyed it actually was very popular in in Vancouver where I was doing it and the character's name was Shecky Gray at the time I was 20 years old he was an old-fashioned old-timey unfunny narcissistic comedian and ironically at the time I had no context for people like Shecky Green or Jack Carter yet I channeled them. I emulated them on stage as these sort of indignant characters. And I wrote street jokes, basically, that were original street jokes, but that could have sounded like they were from the 1950s. So I'd go up on stage in character.

And actually, you know, whenever I talk about Jack Carter on your show, I do that voice. It doesn't really sound like Jack Carter, but it's really loud, and he's, fuck you, you're not you not you know just screaming and ranting that was basically the same voice i was doing in my standup all those years before shecky gray and i would go up on stage and do jokes like uh uh well i'd say ladies and gentlemen my name is shecky gray i'm an internationally renowned and professional professional comedian i recently threw a party for all my impotent friends but nobody came oh now we're cooking with gasoline and i had this old battered symbol and i would smash this symbol and after every yeah and after every joke, I would yell, now we're working! Now we're, you know, every time after every joke, I'd say, now we're doing something.

And I stole some jokes from this guy named Alan Gale, who was a Miami Beach stand-up comic from the early 50s. He put out a comedy record pressed by the Mafia on Roulette Records called Morris Levy. And the name of the record was live at Jack Silverman's international celebrity club. And I was listening to that record around that same time and was just, that's when I kind of became fascinated by this world, this Miami beach mobster comedy world. And I took a joke off of that record and did it in character on stage as Shecky Gray. And the joke was, uh, I was walking down the street the other day

saw a lady said hey miss your pants are coming down she looked said no they're not I said sorry I've made up my mind oh now we're working Gilbert's taking notes by the way I'm opening

with that tonight so then after all of these sort of street jokes, I would yell, now we're doing this, and they would get increasingly absurd, and that actually became the crux of the act. So I'd do a joke, now we're working, do a joke, now we're cooking with gas line, do a joke, and then,

now we're poking holes in the Pope's condoms! Now we're blowing Bob Dylan in the wind? Now we're wishing that Keanu was the Reeves in a wheelchair? Because at the time, Christopher Reeves was a dark Martin Short character. Yeah, it was

very broad and very sticky, and sometimes very broad and very sticky acts become very popular and it did it really became a phenomenon there but it also it kind of left me with this weird feeling because it wasn't really the kind of stand-up i wanted to do you know i like stand-ups the talk rather than than affect crazy characters but it became very popular and i learned and i don't know if you ever had this experience in your career, Gilbert, but I learned that because my act was very loud and sort of combative, it kind of gave license to the audience to be loud and combative in return. So people would scream at me while I was screaming at them.

Yeah. So eventually that became the act. I would respond to hecklers in character and became sort of this insult comic the same way our friend Jeff Rosta speed roasting people and this was not arranged people would line up at the front of the stage single file to take turns yelling at me and then I would yell back at them with an insult and it would get a big laugh would get a big laugh so I did that Shecky Gray for several years in Vancouver until my throat couldn't take it anymore. It's interesting, too, that you're a kid.

I mean, you're in your 20s at this point. I'm assuming that you're doing this. And already your love of these kind of old school comics, these broken down loser comics, is already informing what you do on stage. Yeah, because I was collecting records at the time. So I'd go to the record store and find all these records by Rusty Warren, Woody Woodbury, Bell Barth. Woody Woodbury. And like I mentioned, that guy, Alan Gale.

And all of them tended to do the same jokes. And they all tended to be recorded in some weird nightclub you'd never heard of. And I just became fascinated by that. You know, Woody Woodbury was on a record label called Stereo Oddities. And the first time I ever did any show business, it was community radio when I was 16 years old. And the name of my show was Stereo Oddities.

And I would play weird records, sort of like Dr. Demento and stuff like that. So the vinyl world was sort of the big influence because those people didn't do TV. You didn't see Woody Woodbury on TV much. He had a talk show, but you really didn't see him growing up. No. Rusty Warren, you never saw on TV. Bell Barth, you never saw on TV. Well, they had dirty acts, didn't they?

Rusty Warren and Bell Barth? Well, yeah, borderline dirty. But for that reason, I would find these records and go, well, who the fuck are they? Like, why are these records in every thrift store yet I've never heard of them or seen them on TV? So that was the sort of inherent historian was born there. Gil, did you know these comics?

I mean, you listen to comedy albums. Woody Woodbury I was familiar with. Still with us, Woody. I think he just had a birthday this week. He did? He's in his 90s. Yeah, I think he turned 92 or 93 or something. He was in some weird movie with Ellen Burstyn.

Wow. It's like where he appeared as Woody Woodbury. Were you a student of these? You collected comedy albums. You listened to comedy albums. I know you listen to Alan Sherman and all of that stuff, but did you know these kind of B and C level

comics? No. The other ones I didn't know. Rusty Warren. Belle Barth was famous. Tell us another frightening stupid story. Let me pick one off the list. What's that? Pick one off the list. Go ahead and pick one off the list.

I'll pick one off the list. I kind of like the Tennessee Ernie Ford story. Okay. Oh, yeah. Tennessee Ernie Ford sent and had delivered a cease and desist letter to the Ku Klux Klan. He loves this stuff. This is catnip for him. The Ku Klux Klan was using Tennessee Ernie Ford's recording of the old rugged cross during their cross burnings.

And God. You like that, Gil? So, did the Klan go to court? I guess they respected Tennessee Ernie Ford. Because they did cease and desist using that during cross burnings reportedly. But yeah. So that's all there is to the story. He loves this stuff.

Yeah. Pick another one. Here's another one that's less funny. I'm sure, but it pertains to somebody we talk about a lot on this show, which is Timmy Rogers. Oh yeah! Timmy Rogers is kind of fascinating because people have not explored his career at all they know oh yeah if

they remember him at all just talk to larry charles about him larry charles knew who he was i heard that i heard that students of comedy you know his name dropper yeah well he started in the jazz world, 1943. He was a member of the count Basie orchestra and he was sort of the comedian with the orchestra, but his knack for writing comedy material came from lyrics. He was a lyricist. He would write sort of funny novelty songs for jazz musicians. And then in 1946,

post-war, he kind of went straight and started just doing standup. He would still close with a song the way like Jack Carter and those guys would usually close with a song in the post-war period. Yeah, he used to do, Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. That's right. And he had another

song about inflation, about the high prices these days, which he did for like 40 years. Bless his heart. But in 1946, he was sort of the first of the modern black comedians to just go on stage as himself in a tuxedo,

as opposed to pig meat, Markham doing a character with a floppy hat and props or mom's Maybelline doing a character. And he and pig meat, Markham had a big feud. Timmy Rogers and pig meat, Markham did not get along. And the reason was because big meat, Markham was old fashioned. and pig meat markham had a big feud timmy rogers and pig meat markham did not get along and the

reason was because pig meat markham was old-fashioned and despite the fact that he was black uh pig meat markham would use blackface he would blacken himself up further and do the white around the mouth and timmy rogers would say man we're past that you don't need to do that anymore and so they would bicker back and forth and then tim Timmy Rogers recorded a number of rhythm and blues records and things like this throughout the fifties. And then in 1958, this is the story. He was booked in London at the Palladium on a show with Liberace and Dick Sean and Liberace was the headliner. Timmy Rogers was doing like a half an hour and Dick Sean was brand new. He was doing like 10 minutes, but Dick Shawn was upstaging everybody. He was so dominant and so good and getting such an ovation. They started whittling down Timmy Rogers's time and bolstering Dick Shawn's time. And so Timmy Rogers got pissed

off. He quit while he was in London and his agent, since he was over there anyways, booked him on a series of tours on military bases. He started performing on American military installations all throughout Europe. He was in Germany in 1958 doing the third show in one night on a Saturday night, and he showed up for a 12.15 a.m. show at 12.03 a.m., and the sergeant there was drunk, he was white, and he was outraged. He thought Timmy Rogers was late, and he said, where the fuck you been? Where's the fucking MC? And Timmy Rogers said, whoa, whoa, man, what's the problem? And the guy said, this white sergeant said, don't call me man, boy, and punched him in the face, knocked him up against a shuffleboard

table, punched him again, threw him to the ground while yelling the N-word, kicked him in the ribs, broke three of his ribs, and fractured his face. Unbelievable. And Timmy Rogers at that point was also dancing in his act, and he was unable to dance after that. And so there was a court-martial. They put this sergeant on trial. People expected him to get five years for this unprovoked racist assault on Timmy Rogers. And they have this court martial and he was acquitted of all charges, despite the fact there were all these witnesses.

Unreal. And Timmy Rogers was outraged. He said, this is Mississippi justice. This is Senator Bilbo style justice in the American military. And the reason I bring it up is because a few weeks ago there was that horrible story about the actor from Empire. And it reminded me of Timmy Rogers being attacked by this sort of white supremacist.

And then it almost ruined his career in the sense that he couldn't move for several months. He was just stuck in a hospital bed. Boy, that started off great. And then I said it wasn't exactly funny. But it pertains to somebody. Maybe this one's a little funnier. Okay.

Yeah, make a real duck real fast. But this is from your book, and I'm going to just repeatedly plug the book through the show. The wonderful book, The Comedians. If our listeners do not have this book, please do not waste a moment. Go out and get it because this is the the perfect book for people who listen to this show but what about ted healy trying to kill jessel as long as we're on a violence theme now now for anyone out there ted healy it used to be ted healy and his three stooges right before they split up well i think um the story was in a walter winchell column or

yeah i think it was winchell he reported that george jessel had invented a new drink called the bloody mary this was in the late 1920s they credited george schlatter or sorry with george jessel with the invention of the bloody mary and in in the article winchell mentioned that he had been with this woman named Mary and that he named it after her. And she was Ted Healy's girlfriend or wife. And so Ted Healy did not know that George Jessel had been hanging around with his woman until he read this article about how he had named the Bloody Mary after her.

So they were backstage, I think in Chicago at some vaudeville house. marry after her. So they were backstage I think in Chicago at some vaudeville house and Ted Healy shot a gun, not to shoot him, but to basically make him go deaf right by Jessel's ear. Fired a loaded pistol and Jessel couldn't hear for

a week. He couldn't go on stage because his ears were ringing. I believe that's the story, yeah. Oh my god! So Jessel must have had a few moments of schadenfreude when Ted Healy came to a bad end. Yeah, and then there was that other sort of famous anecdote, because George Jessel would not have survived the Me Too era. He was known for having sex with 14-year-old girls on a regular basis.

And there's a famous story on the Red Skelton show. They had an animal act and it urinated all over the stage and red skeleton came back out and said oh it looks like uh jessel's girlfriend has been here meaning that you know she was a toddler who had read herself so heartwarming so what he thought jessel had fucked his girlfriend yeah yeah that was what the conclusion he came to based on the fact that Winchell had mentioned that they were both together at the same time. Insane. And now, what was your most recent or most factual case of Ted Healy dying? Oh, yeah, what's your take on the mysterious death of Ted Healy?

dying oh well yeah what's your take on the mysterious death of dead healy yeah i didn't read that new book that came out which is supposedly debunks the story about uh wallace bury uh uh curb stomping him to death and then covering it up saying that sailors did it um i don't know i don't i don't have a take on it. I took a lot of heat when my book came out from nerdy Stooge fans for quoting the Moe Howard biography or autobiography where he says that Wallace Beery probably curb stomped Ted Healy. And a lot of nerds were like, ah, that's been debunked. But I sometimes go for the better story. Why not? I don't want these stories to be debunked. Print the legend.

Yeah, exactly. The stooge fundamentalist came for you, huh? Wasn't Cubby Broccoli the producer of the Bond films involved in that altercation too? Yeah, Cubby Broccoli was involved in some way. MGM, a lot of these early MGM guys like Eddie Mannix, who was the fixer, and a lot of these people, Samuel Marks was another guy. They really knew how to

exercise their clout and cover things up, but of course now it's all kind of come out. Busby Berkeley was another famous one when he killed somebody in a car. Drinking and driving. Yeah, yeah. Mulholland Drive. That was a famous one. And didn't Clark Gable kill someone in his car? I don't know about that.

I know about Clark Gable and his love child, David Jansen. Well, by all means, expound on that. You guys don't know that? That's a famous story. Famous rumor. Yeah. And you look at the headshots of David Jansen in the 50s, he just looks like Clark Gable without a mustache.

Giant ears, same face, you know, I can completely believe it. We're jumping all around here as we do, but on this, what do you make of Drew's claim that Clark Gable was involved with Andy Devine sexually? I love that. I love that. I love that. Andy Devine has a closet full of skeletons. Come on. Of raspy voice skeletons.

Didn't we talk last time I was on the show about that town somewhere in America? There's a small town and everything is named after Andy Devine on the streets. And, well, Drew friedman also had a story his stories you know disgust even me they're all crazy one of them was that there was a love affair between eddie canter and shimp howard based on what i don't know.

Based on a drawing that Drew did. A drawing? Drew Friedman. One of his evidence was that chimp had long hair. Drew loves the whole Rock Hudson Jim Neighbors thing though. He dined

out on that. Before Jim Neighbors came though. He dined out on that. Well, you know, there was a, before Jim Neighbors came out of the, came out of the closet, this elderly comedian who's still alive and completely forgotten, never had much of a career in terms of fame, a guy named Jackie Curtis with two S's. I've seen interviews with him on your website. Yeah. He did a bunch of Ed Sullivan shows. He was one of these guys who every time you saw him, he was in a different comedy team. Curtis and Antone, Curtis and this, Curtis and that. They never really clicked,

but he told me that he attended Rock Hudson and Jim Neighbors mock wedding that they had for private friends. I love it. A fake wedding in which they both dressed in wedding dresses, Rockudson and jim neighbors

and that they did they exchanged vows and supposedly jackie curtis insists this is true they uh released a photo album as a gag after the fact and he had photos of this wedding of rock hudson feeding jim neighbors the first piece of cake and getting icing all over his face. Fantastic. This is according to a 93-year-old comedian, so I have a tendency to believe him even if it's not true. And Jimmy Stewart actually did come out of the closet at one point. Jimmy Stewart?

Not Jimmy Stewart. Jim Neighbors. Jimmy Stewart just liked getting pissed on. By midgets. By midgets, yes. Yeah, Jim Neighbors came out of the closet just maybe one or two years before he died. Yeah. He and his lover in Hawaii came out of the closet.

This is, speaking of, I'm going to go back a little bit. I'll come back and give you a fresh scandal in a minute, Gilbert. But Gilbert, did you ever hear of a comic named Murray Roman? It's, Gilbert. But Gilbert, did you ever hear of a comic named Murray Roman? It's, boy. I mean, it sounds like a combination of 20 different comics. Right, and I bring it up because it's sort of, he sort of leads to a turning point in Cliff's career. And explain, Cliff, because I think our, and our readers, a lot of our listeners got the book, but I think people would be interested to know how you transition from being a comic to the foremost authority if i may uh quote uh the professor erwin uh murray roman was an old

school guy pretending to be young and hip in the late 60s he had a comedy record and that's how i was introduced to him called you can't beat people up and have them say i love you it was on bill cosby's record label tetragrammaton in 1969 it had a kaleidoscopic psychedelic cover it was the weirdest comedy record it had liner notes by tommy smothers from the smothers brothers and it wasn't a very funny record but when you listen to it he sounded like a guy doing an impression of lenny bruce like he had that cadence yeah he was an was an older guy, but he was like, yeah, man, can you dig it? You know, doing all this sort of slang that even coming out of the guy's voice, you could tell was labored, but it was a psychedelic comedy record. He would hit a punchline and then the punchline would go into reverb echoing. And then he'd go into his next joke and then music would cut in and out of, out of each of the jokes.

And I was very curious about this record because I'd never heard about this guy, Murray Roman, and I found it in a flea market when I was 24. And when I was still doing standup, I met the Smothers Brothers at a festival or at a show. And I asked Tommy Smothers, who is Murray Roman? Because I have this record and you wrote the liner notes. He goes, oh, Murray was one of our writers,

but he died young. But in the 50s, he was an agent at MCA and he went to prison for some sort of fraud scandal stealing from his clients. He had represented the Everly Brothers at one point. Wow. And he went to jail for like five or six years. And when he came out of jail in order to reinvent himself, he became a standup comic and started playing places like The Hungry Eye and The Purple Onion. Wild. He was 20 years older than all these other guys

like Dick Gregory, but he tried to be hip and cool. And he put out this comedy record and Tommy Smothers hired him as a writer on the show. So the guy goes from being arrested for fraud to reinventing himself as a comic to being a Smothers Brothers writer. Exactly.

Quite a journey. He was part of that same writer's room with Steve Martin and Carl Gottlieb and Hamilton Camp and Bob Einstein. Yeah. All the legends. He was in that writer's room. And so I decided to write an article about it. It was really the first time I ever wrote about an old comedian.

It was about this guy, Murray Roman. I phoned Tommy Smothers. We had met a month earlier and talked to him for an hour about it. And then he said, you know who would know more about this than me Murray Roman. I phoned Tommy Smothers. You know, we had met a month earlier and talked to him for an hour about it. And then he said, you know, who would know more about this than me is Steve. Have you talked to Steve yet? And I said, Steve, he goes, Steve Martin. I said, no, I haven't talked to him yet. You know, I'm a 25 year old kid in Canada. I have no access to Steve Martin. He says, I'll phone Steve Martin and tell him to call you. How about that? An hour later, my phone rang and it was Steve Martin. He was on set of some movies. He goes, I hear you're writing about Murray Roman. I said, yes, we talked

for like an hour about Murray Roman. And then when it was over, Steve Martin kept me on the line. He goes, who else are you writing about? Because I'm really into a lot of those old guys. He goes, you know who one of my favorites is? Steve Martin is saying this. You know who one of my favorites is? Jackie Vernon. I love Jackie Vernon. And so Steve Martin and I bonded over our mutual love of Jackie Vernon. And that sort of set me on the path of researching and writing about old comedians. That was the start. I love that. I mean, I love asking guests about turning points in their lives, but isn't that cool? I mean, that's how he transitioned from being a performer into kind of, and you kind of knew at that point,

this is for me. This is a life for me well if tommy smothers and steve martin were enthusiastic about what i was doing i took that as you know maybe a nice indication absolutely keep doing and have you heard have you heard any of gilbert's jackie vernon by the way no please here's some slides from my vacation. Here's Manuel, our tour guide, leading us around the quicksand. Here we are from the waist up. Here's a bunch of pics and ropes and things. Did you ever see anybody do Jackie Vernon before?

Well, you know there's a comedy record. Maybe you could emulate this. There's a comedy record of Jackie Vernon singing Yesterday by the Beatles doing a cover in his voice. Wow. Have you ever heard that? Yesterday all my troubles seem so far

away. But he's got the clicker in his hand. Yes. Now, and Hal Roach had collaborations with Mussolini. I thought you were going to say Hal Holbrook. Hal Holbrook. Also involved with Mussolini. Yes.

There were two people in comedy that were among Mussolini's biggest supporters, and not just Mussolini's biggest supporters in the United States or in comedy, but just Mussolini's two biggest supporters, period. One was Hal Roach, of course, who produced all those two real comedy shorts, Our Gang, Laurel and Hardy. The other was Will Rogers. You know, that saying, I never met a man I didn't like, it may be in reference to this. You know, that saying, I never met a man I didn't like, it may be in reference to this. Will Rogers advocated on behalf of Mussolini in the 1920s in his newspaper column, not as satire, not as humor, said, we need somebody like Mussolini in the United States. And so both of them were sort of fascist sympathizers in the late 20s and early 30s. And Hal Roach went into collusion with the Mussolini regime.

They were going to produce pro-fascist Italy propaganda films at Hal Roach Studios in Hollywood. His son, I forget his name, Vittorio Mussolini, I think. Vittorio. Vittorio. Yeah. Flew to Hollywood and they had a big reception for him. Star-studded invitation, a black tie gallop. Betty Davis was at that event. Betty Davis was there and she wore a scarf that was in the color of the Italian flag.

And at this point, it was well known Italy was a fascist country. This wasn't the beginnings of it. It had been fascist for almost 10 years by this point. And they kind of thought, well, it's a head of state. That's all they cared about. We want to be there and be seen. Eventually, the sort of left-wing people in Hollywood were agitating against this. A lot of the screenwriters who were later blacklisted, one of their first sort of political acts was speaking out against this relationship between Hal Roach Studios and Mussolini and essentially ran him out of town. They canceled this plan because of the blowback that they got from a lot of the sort of progressive

Hollywood people at the time. So Betty Davis was a fascist sympathizer? No, she just attended this party. That I like. But that's one of the most interesting chapters in the comedians too is where you're talking about the the early days of radio canter's early days in radio and how much money canter had raised for children victims of the nazis eddie eddie canter was the first celebrity to try and help jewish refugees escape nazi germany starting around 33, and then it became an official campaign as part of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League in 1935. And because he was doing that, he would get heckled at

radio broadcasts by fascist sympathizers in the audience. So there's a famous story around 1936, 1937, or 1938, Eddie Cantor was doing a live broadcast at KNX in Los Angeles, the CBS affiliate. When the show was over, and this is when like Parkia Karkas was on the show and

Burt Gordon, the mad Russian, was on the show. After the show, Eddie Cantor would address the live studio audience and make an appeal on behalf of Jewish refugees and fighting against Nazism. And remember, this is four years before America entered the war. He was heckled by a fascist sympathizer in the audience who said, stick to jokes. You don't know what you're talking about. And Burt Gordon, the mad Russian, ran after the dude in the studio audience and attacked him and started beating the shit out of him. Got into a big fist fight on the floor of CBS.

on the floor of CBS. And there was a meeting with CBS, Eddie Cantor, and the American Tobacco Company who made Lucky Strike cigarettes saying you cannot speak out against Hitler anymore. You cannot speak on behalf of Jewish refugees anymore. Cantor, you're going to ruin our good standing with bigots in our buying audience.

You cannot talk about politics anymore. And Eddie Cantor wouldn't, but there was this pressure to maybe cancel the Eddie Cantor show because he wouldn't stop speaking out against Hitler in 1935, 36, 37, 38. How about that, Gil? That's scary. Yeah. Could happen again. That's very scary.

So what was the sponsors again? Tobacco company. Yeah, the American Tobacco Company, which they famously parodied in Mad Men. They were one of the most powerful companies in all of radio and advertising. They sponsored everything. So basically what they said went, not just about politics, but if they didn't like your joke, it had to be taken out.

If the sponsor, if the tobacco company didn't like your joke, even though they had no creative involvement in the show, they had final say over what ended up in the program. That stuff is wild.

It's in the book too. In the section you say, the ad agency in charge of the account, Young and Rubicant, sent a memo to the network saying we are of the opinion that we should present eddie canter to the public strictly as a funny man and try to avoid any publicity that would indicate that he ever had a serious thought

or is guilty of a serious deed yeah they didn't want him taken seriously well people forget in that pre pre-war period before 1941 there were a lot of isolationists and a lot of fascist sympathizers in the United States. And they bought Lucky Strike cigarettes. So they didn't want to offend them, even though they were fascist sympathizers. Incredible. uh like sort of like a pre premature uh fascist anti-fascist sympathies right like yeah the the hollywood anti-nazi league was part of that anybody who was part of the hollywood anti-nazi league which was founded in 1935 later during the red scare were often blacklisted because they felt that it was an indication that you were a communist if you were opposed to the Nazis before 1941. Because largely in the United

States, it largely was the Communist Party of the United States that was advocating against Nazism, probably for self-serving reasons, but they still were the only ones really speaking out during that period. I want to ask you about the Red Scare stuff from the book in a second. But while we're on the subject of Nazis, did the Three Stooges end up on Hitler's death list? Well, I've never found confirmation. I had heard that! Yeah.

Certainly Chaplin. Supposedly there was this thing called the kill list that was sort of like Nixon's enemies list in the 60s. Hitler had this kill list. I have never been able to find verification that there was such a list. But supposedly, Charlie Chaplin was on that list. The Three Stooges were on that list. Jack Benny was on that list.

And the reason was because Charlie Chaplin made The Great Dictator. The Three Stooges made You, Nazi Spy. And Jack Benny made To Be or Not to Be. And supposedly ridiculing Hitler was a reason for... He was really pissed off, especially with Charlie Chaplin, because Charlie Chaplin wasn't Jewish. The other comedians were Jewish, so he hated them regardless. But Chaplin was apparently Hitler's favorite.

Maybe the mustache was influenced by Chaplin. Some people have theorized it. So, yeah, supposedly the Three Stooges. I think, again, it was Moe Howard who said that in his autobiography. Yeah, because they did another one. Those not these boys. Oh, you'll never hile again. Yes.

Yes. Or I'll never hile again. Yes. Yes. Yes. Or I'll never heil again. Yes. There's some fantastic Hal Roach two reel studio shorts that are all star people playing Hitler and people playing Mussolini.

And those are really well worth seeking out. I think there's two of them. One of them takes place in hell. So there's a guy in a devil suit like prodding Mussolini and Hitler to do things are very, very broad comedies from 1943,44 that are worth seeking out. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Navigating adulting isn't always easy.

You're not just working. You're working late. And dinner dates are all, what's your five-year plan? And you're thinking, paying off the bill for this fancy pants meal probably. So when you need to break free from responsibility and experience something that feels more you, reach for Kraft Dinner. Because when you're starved for moments that bring you back to who you really are and what you really love, that's when it's gotta be KD. When you gotta do you, reactions. That's not really what I do. Is that because you don't have any knees? The Scorebet. Trusted sports content.

Seamless sports betting. Download today. 19 plus. Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca. Well, on the subject of the Red Scare, and again, the book is such a page-turner. And I've read it twice, but in doing of the Red Scare, and again, the book is such a page-turner.

I've read it twice, but in doing research for having you back, I dug into it again. And just the gold, I mean, the vaudeville chapter, as I told you on the phone, is my favorite. And we want to ask, before we get off with you, we have to ask about Swain's Rats and Cats again. But, because Gilbert and I are just obsessed with that. On the subject of the Red Scare and McCarthyism and some of the people that got caught up in it, I want to ask you specifically

about one person and that is Mr. Julius Marx. Yeah, well, Groucho Marx was hosting You Bet Your Life at the time and one of his lead musicians, does it say there? Jerry Fielding. I can't remember who it was. One of his lead lead musicians is it say there jerry fielding i can't remember who it was one of his lead musicians and i think it was it is uh so one of his musicians in the orchestra

of you bet your life you remember when they spun the wheel and they would play music or they play groucho on and off um he had been named uh in redels or one of those Red Scare magazines, newspapers, and they wanted to get rid of him. And Groucho said, well, no, I don't want to get rid of him. And the reason he had been named was because he had been advocating for the integration of the musicians' unions. In those days, in the 40s, there was a union just for black musicians and a union just for white musicians. And the guy from You Bet Your Life Orchestra was advocating that they integrate. So this is why they went after him. And Groucho Marx initially stood up for him.

But then it sounded like De Soto or whoever the sponsor was, was thinking about pulling their sponsorship on this because of this issue. And so Groucho said, okay, go ahead and fire him. And they did. And he was blacklisted for this musician for several years. And Groucho said in the 70s that it was the only real major regret of his career was buckling to those pressures. Yeah, that must have hurt him because he was known for being a stand-up guy. I mean, he came out when he got a little clout, he came out

against ethnic acts. Yeah, and Groucho Marx had a big FBI file. There was an FBI file. You can read it online. There was an FBI file. Most of it redacted. It's still all scribbled in black marker. But in Groucho Marx's FBI file, there's a complaint

because on one episode of You Bet Your Life, he referred to America as the United Snakes of America. And these angry sort of John Birch Society type people wrote in these angry letters saying, I think Groucho Marx is a red. I think he's a commie. You should look into him. And so J. Edgar Hoover did amass this large file on Groucho Marx. And then in the late 60s, Groucho Marx came in out in favor of thes, Groucho Marx came out in favor of the Chicago Eight when Abbie Hoffman was arrested in Chicago. And Nicholas Wray, the filmmaker who made Rebel Without a Cause, was planning a movie about the Chicago trials in the late 60s, about the hippies

versus the police. And he was going to cast Groucho Marx as the judge in the trial, in the Abbie Hoffman trial. It never happened. But all of these things just sort of thickened his FBI file because he was considered a famous name who maybe was giving credence to radical causes. Well, I'd like to think his heart was in the right place and that he really did regret the fielding incident. Yeah, he did. One of the things in your book is what you were talking about uh the old days of the stereotype acts of course gilbert laughs you know the merry wops oh yes but these these these jewish acts and these really these these really unpleasant unflattering stereotypes yes yeah there's a

there was a guy named harry green you guys ever talked about Harry Green? No, I don't think so. Harry Green, between 1930 and 35 at Paramount, you watch old movies. He's in them all the time. He was essentially the Jewish Stepan Fetchet. He did this way over the top, broad ethnic character. He wore these round horn rim glasses and it was all Yiddishisms. And like Stepan Fetchet, he would mumble things under his breath that weren't in the script that if you understood Yiddish were detectable as these sort of, I don't know if they were subversive, but they were off-script things that really wouldn't have made it past the censors. Harry Green.

Harry Green, but it was pretty racist. When you watch it today, it's like really cringeworthy. He's in a bunch of early Bing Crosby movies, and then they got rid of him. He was like persona non grata after 1935 because it was very broad, very offensive. Even in the early 30s, that style of playing a Jewish character like that was already considered

taboo and old-fashioned. And one of my always favorite topics, famous anti-Semites in Hollywood. Where do you begin yeah well the two two biggest that i can think of from two different eras in the 20s and 30s of course it was frank fay but in the 60s 50s and 60s it was walter brennan walter brennan was the biggest anti-semite and he was a racist as well according to his son when Walter Brennan was making that show

what's it called Will Sonnet? Guns of Will Sonnet? Was that his show? Yeah he was in that show and he was on set of that program the morning that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and when news got to set about the assassination supposedly Walter Brennan started doing one of those Treasure of the Sierra Madre jigs, dancing a jig in celebration of the assassination. So he hated Jewish people. He hated black people. He thought that they were all in the pocket of some sort of communist uh conspiracy walter brennan i know there was a character actor eugene pellet who they used to call froggy yeah eugene pellet yeah yeah he was in like sturgis's collection juice yeah he played friar tuck in the adventures of robin famously

and he refused to sit in the commissary with other um black at Warner Brothers. So I'm not sure who offhand, but yeah, he firmly believed in segregation. But that was in the 1940s when it was still federal policy to have segregation. Whereas in the 60s, Walter Brennan at the height of the civil rights movement was calling out civil rights activists as being no good commies. Fucking Walter Brennan. Wow. Son of a bitch. Well, you know, there's a healthy dose of anti-Semitism behind the blacklist in the first place. I mean, in addition to trying to weaken or if not bust unions outright.

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of that grew out of there are too many Jews in Hollywood and we've got to do something about this. Yeah, you know, it's weird. It's all dovetailed. jews in hollywood and this we you know we've got to do something about this and yeah you know it's weird in those days madison in those days madison square garden could be rented to any sort of quote-unquote civic organization so american nazis in yeah you can see that you can see those videos online yeah in 1946 after the war uh the american nazi party and some of their sort of associates, racist groups, rented Madison Square Garden and held a pro-fascist rally. And the name of the pro-fascist rally was the Friends of Frank Fay. Because Frank Fay.

The first stand-up, Frank Fay. Frank Fay was coming out on side of the catholics in the spanish civil war rather than the loyalists so loyal you know it was a big cause in the 30s for progressives versus regressives because left-wing people left-wing people were being murdered in spain at that time in the 30s and so actors equity the actors union came out with this statement in support of those fighting against the fascists in spain but because the fascists were aligned with the Catholic Church and Frank Fay was Catholic, he felt that this was an attack on the Catholic Church. So it turned into this big to-do, and Frank Fay got kicked out of the actors' union.

And so fascists came out in support of Frank Fay, and they did all these pro-Nazi speeches and racist speeches at Madison Garden. Frank Fay was their guest of honor and they called it the friends of frank faye how about that gil oh my god frank faye who you credit as being basically the first the first official kind of stand-up comic now first stand and tell stand to stand there and tell jokes instead of doing a character instead of doing costumes instead of doing shtick he just went on stage and talked in a tuxedo like a normal person and it became a very influential Jack Benny, Bob Hope, Milton Berle. They all cited Frank Faye as a huge influence on their style of standup. And at the same time, they all criticized him for being

this raving racist. And of course, Milton Berle famously attacked Frank Faye when he came off stage at the palace because he heard Frank F Fay whispering under his breath about Milton Berle, get that little Jew kid out of here, get that little Jew kid out of here. And Milton Berle waited for him when Frank Fay got offstage and he smashed him in the face with this piece of plywood from the scenery and tore open his nose and Frank Fay had to go to the hospital. Milton Berle was so enraged. How about that, Gil?

Oh, I like that. Finally a great Milton Berle story that doesn't have to do with this cock. You sure it was plywood that he hit him with? Now, I was reading somewhere that Meyer Lansky used to organize, like, gangs to beat up the Nazis at these rallies. Oh, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that at all. I did know that Meyer Lansky was the connection why Steve Allen broadcast a number of Steve Allen shows from Havana in the months right before the Cuban Revolution in 1959. They did all these remotes. Lou Costello was on a lot of them. And there were a lot of threats from Cuban revolutionaries saying, Steve Allen, the Steve Allen Show, stay out of Cuba, because we're about to take it over. And it was right around that time.

And Bill Dana was with them. And he said that at one point, they had to cancel an episode of the Steve Allen Show because it had been inundated with stink bombs from revolutionaries who didn't take kindly to Steve Allen colluding with Meyer Lansky and using Cuba as their sort of foreign playground.

Steve Allen, a good old radical. Yeah, a guy who also hired people who were blacklisted. Steve Allen hired people that were blacklisted but he never ever hired a black comedian on the Tonight Show. Is that true? When Steve Allen had the chance, and he would bring on black jazz musicians, he would talk in favor of integration in the civil rights movement.

But when he had the chance to book black comedians like Timmy Rogers or whoever, he said he wouldn't do it because white audiences would never accept jokes coming from a black man like mort saw and then just a couple years later dick regri emerged and appeared on the jack parr tonight show smashing that theory but steve allen for all the stuff that he did in civil rights he literally refused to black how strange black comedians now how strange and disappointing and on the subject of disappointing what the hell is with Luke Costello supporting McCarthy? Luke Costello, I mean, a lot of people just heard the word communist and just assumed that that meant I have to fight against it. So in the civil rights era, Martin Luther King and a lot of the people around him, Bayard Rustin and James Farmer, famous black civil rights organizers, had been members of the communist party back in the 1930s so that was enough reason for you to be suspect and considered an enemy even if you were

fighting for a good cause later on you know so luke costello wanted everybody on the set of the avid costello movies to sign loyalty oaths and would fire anybody who didn't and one of the people he demanded sign a loyalty oath was this guy, John Grant, who I think wrote their version of Who's On First based it on a previous routine and kind of punched it up. And if you watch any of the old Abbott and Costello movies in the credits, it always says special material buy.

And I think his name is John Grant. Is that the right name? I don't know. We'll double check it. Lou Costello demanded that he sign this loyalty oath. And he goes, Lou, you've known me for 20 or 30 years. You're questioning my loyalty now. And he refused to sign it, so he fired him.

So that was the end of their association. After that, there were no more Abner Costello movies that said special material buy. How about that, Gil? Jeez. This is the disillusionment episode. This is a depressing story. This is the most depressing story.

I love this shit. I sent you a list of stories that are more upbeat. I just wanted to hear about Abbott and Costello's porn collection. This is on the email thread that you and I are on

Cliff with Scott and Larry and Drew. It's in the FBI file. It's in Abbott and Costello's FBI file. The FBI said that Lou Costello

had pornography coming out of his ears. That's the phrase that they used. Because we heard Red Skelton was the big porn collector. Yeah, that's true.

Red Skelton and Lou Costello and George Raft had the biggest collections of pornography in Hollywood. I heard Bud Abbott had a tremendous collection. There's also a story. I'm trying to

remember who it involves between Lou Costello and a comedian who had children. I can't remember who. They played a prank on them and sent a film print that was supposed to be a children's film. Maybe it was that movie he did where he grows into a giant. What's that?

Luke Costello movie? 30 Foot Bride of Candy Rock? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Somebody was requesting a print of that movie, and instead of sending it over that very innocuous children's movie, they sent out a print of hardcore pornography and screened it in front of this children's party accidentally.

Luke Costello's idea of a prank. Oh, gee! Now you're getting into Gilbert's area. Yes! What about this one? What about, I'll pull one off the list. By the way, it disturbs me to know that Stinky had to sign a loyalty oath. Stinky signed a loyalty oath? With anybody that worked on that but Costello.

Apparently so. I'm extrapolating. What is this about people loving to pelt Rudy Valley with fruit? And please tell us there's a Cesar Romero connection. It may have inspired Cesar Romero. He was breaking into the biz at the time. There was a trend. You know, in the old days, they always talked about how there were these college student crazes

like swallowing goldfish or cramming yourself into a telephone booth. You know, there's all these. Yeah. Comedians would always reference that in the 50s. Well, in the early 30s, there was this trend of attending Rudy Valley concerts

when he was already at the height of his fame, had a hit radio show, and pelting him with rotten fruit. So it happened in Boston. It happened in Detroit. It happened in Chicago. Every concert that Rudy Valley did for several months, college students were throwing a rotten fruit at him and they would have to

stop the show. If you look at newspaper articles about Rudy Valley in the early thirties, this is constantly coming up. It became a trend, a craze to assault Rudy Valley with rotten fruit. And Rudy Valley of course was known for being super temperamental, involved in a lot of scandals.

He punched a busboy in Miami Beach unconscious because he spoke to him right before he went on stage and he was sued. So it's Gilbert's done that. You've cold cocked people for approaching you. All the time.

Before you get on stage. Now, I, now, Rudy Valley sounds like he was probably a racist. I heard he was the cheapest man in Hollywood. That's what I'd heard about Rudy Valley. He was very cheap.

His autobiography, if you can find a copy, is a must-read. Okay. There's an entire chapter about 40 pages just devoted to settling an old score with Victor Borga.

Oh! Love to read that. Rudy Valley versus Victor Borga, 40 pages, says that I gave him a start in this business, he's an ingrate, he's a lowlife, he doesn't blah blah blah. Just goes on and on and on, ranting and raving about Victor Borga.

It must be at least 30 or 40 pages. Well, your friend Ileana Douglas knew Rudy Valley early in her career. Ask her about that. Okay, what about the story about the kingfish? That's on your list here? I love this already. The actor who played the kingfish, Tim Moore.

Yes. Tim Moore, who was considered one of the funniest or maybe the funniest of all Chitlin Circuit comedians. Jack Carter told me that he thought Tim Moore was the funniest man who ever lived. He knew him personally. We'd go and see him perform live. But in the 1950s, Tim Moore got arrested for assault with a weapon.

He went to his fridge, and the roast beef that he had been saving was gone. His wife had apparently eaten it, and he tried to murder his wife for apparently eaten it and tried to murder his wife for eating his roast beef. And that was shortly... You should see the color Gilbert's turning. You love that so much, you lunatic. I love that stuff too.

Here's another. Go ahead. I got another good one here. Why did Sammy Davis... Go ahead. No, no, you go ahead. Why did Sammy Davis join the Church of Satan? Oh, God.

Yeah, yeah. He was... You know, it was the early 70s when Sammy Davis Jr. was doing a lot of sort of offbeat things. You know, he dated Linda Lovelace, I think, a couple times in the early 70s when Sammy Davis Jr. was doing a lot of sort of offbeat things. You know, he dated Linda Lovelace, I think, a couple times in the early 70s. He would screen Deep Throat for private parties, Sammy Davis Jr.

So he was getting into these sort of things you don't usually associate with Sammy. I would say so. One of them was Anton LaVey. He became friends with Anton LaVey, the high priest of the Church of Satan, and got into Satanism, doing ritualistic, Satanistic rituals,

sacrificing things. Look at the look on this man's face, Cliff. His jaw is hitting the table. This stuff is not hard to find. It's also not cloaked in rumor. You can find Los Angeles Times articles from the 70s about sammy davis jr joining the church of satan wow and this didn't work against him anyway

no man he was the candy man there was you couldn't you couldn't uh take anything out tom why did uh why did jerry lewis not like lynn redgrave oh yeah shit man i wish i brought that quote with me i think i can paraphrase it but you why did Jerry Lewis not like Lynn Redgrave? Oh, yeah, shit, man. I wish I brought that quote with me. I think I can paraphrase it. But you probably have talked about this on your show before in the late 70s when Jerry Lewis was starring in Hell's a Poppin' on Broadway. He did a version of Hell's a Poppin'.

Yeah, sure. And it was a famous debacle. It closed shortly. Jerry Lewis blamed the critics, he pulled a gun again. Another pulling a gun story. Jerry Lewis pulled a gun on a reporter from New York magazine. You can read that online as well. It's part of the story that the New York magazine article or writer wrote.

But he also was blaming Lynn Redgrave for the failure of the show and they did not get along. Redgrave for the failure of the show and they did not get along. And I guess one of the journalists asked Jerry Lewis what he thought of Lynn Redgrave. And he said, uh, uh, he goes, I should have taken my cock out and pissed on her.

There's the Jerry Lewis quote. Jerry classy as always. Now Gilbert's happy. You're a sick individual. What else is on the list? You had a run-in with Jerry. You told me on the phone that only two comics that you've interviewed over the years were genuinely unkind to you. Yeah, the only two old guys that were sort of rude were Jerry Lewis and Marty Allen.

The Jerry Lewis story is... Marty! Marty's like the nicest guy in the world. Not to Cliff. Yeah, the Jerry Lewis story isn't that good. It was just he was very non-communicative. I told it on the show before with Drew about how Drew Friedman set it up for me. He said he's waiting, expecting your call.

You can call him right now. That's right. I did. That's right. And then Jerry pretended like he wasn't waiting for my call. And he goes, I never do interviews after Drew had said he'll do an interview. But Marty Allen, Marty Allen was bizarre. I was interviewing Marty Allen and I would say, um, so in 1955, you were in another comedy team with a guy named Mitch DeWood. Uh, what can you tell me about Mitch DeWood? And then Marty Allen would go, uh-huh.

So? So what? Marty was having a bad day. Jeez. After every question, he said, so what? What's your point? So? So what?

And this went on and on. And then I was talking to Mark Maron, because Marty Allen did Mark Maron's podcast as well. And as you know, Mark does his show out of his house. Sure. And I said, Marty Allen was really rude to me was he rude to you he goes no he wasn't rude to me but he absolutely destroyed my bathroom because apparently marty allen didn't have the best aim at the age of 90 he said that he looked like he had intentionally ruined mark's bathroom there There you go, Gil. But I've never heard bad stuff about Marty Allen. You've been in that bathroom.

You've been in Mark Madden's bathroom. The first, we had Marty on this show and he was an angel. So this takes us back. Gino's going to be very upset. Yes. About this. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this.

Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more.

That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history. Thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. Hot chicken in the window. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect.

What about, this one's right up, Gilbert Sally. What about the George Goober Lindsay story? Okay. Well, George Goober Lindsay was a semi-regular on Hee Haw. And he and Grandpa Jones, you know, Grandpa Jones was considered the patriarch of country comedy, of hillbilly comedy. He was an older guy, very experienced. He was also very conservative. And in fact, talking about the Red Scare, Grandpa Jones recorded a 78 novelty single in the early 50s called I Ain't No Communist.

So he was a pretty conservative dude. And George Goober Lindsay used to love to annoy Grandpa Jones. At Hee Haw, they all shared one big communal dressing room, with the exception of Roy Clark and Buck Owens, who had their own. But everybody else was in the same big sort of airplane hangar of a dressing room. And Goober Lindsay used to take his underwear off and then tuck his cock and balls between his legs like he had a vagina and walk over to grandpa jones and say he was a girl touch it touch it i'm a girl and

grandpa jones would get annoyed and storm out that's great oh my god that made him happy. You just, you made his night. What are you, speaking of that, speaking of balls, what do you know about Mr. Belvedere sitting on his own balls? That's a Hollywood. Yeah, I was on the sound, I was in the studio. I was doing, I was a guest on another show, and Mr. Belvedere was being recorded on another soundstage. And all of a sudden, the talk throughout the studio was that Mr. Belvedere sat on his balls.

I love that. I love that. What do you know about this, Cliff? I don't know much about Mr. Belvedere's balls, but I do know that, I do think that Bob Uecker is one of the most underrated and hilarious doodles in show business. You should get him on your show. Why did Steve Allen fire Alan Sherman? Oh, I love this story.

Your friend, Steve Binder, who you interviewed on your show. Yes, a lovely man. I love this story. Your friend, Steve Binder, who you interviewed on your show, told me this story because I had't know why some practical joker doesn't do this more often. During Steve Allen's monologue or when he was talking, whenever he was saying anything that wasn't supposed to be funny, Alan Sherman would flick on the applause sign and the laughter sign. And he did that like several times throughout the show. So just for no reason, people started applauding when Steve Allen is talking. And so Steve Binder got, or Alan Sherman got fired shortly after that. I'll jump back to it.

I just thought that was so great. I'll jump back to, I love that one too. I'll jump back to a few from the list, but this is one of Gilbert's favorite subjects. And I was reading this part of the book over again last night. And that's the stuff about the nightclubs and the mob. And specifically, you know Joey Lewis, you know this story?

Yeah, yeah. They slid his throat. Absolutely horrible story. He was working for Capone, I guess. Yeah, he was working, I can't remember if it was Capone or the rival faction was Capone, but he did something. He had a residency in Chicago at a nightclub and he went and accepted another gig without permission. He did not realize that he was, you know, the mob's comedian and you couldn't go and take another gig without their say.

So he took a gig at a rival mob club and he said in defiance, he said, you can't tell me what to do. You don't own me. And they said, yeah, we do own you. So later that night at his hotel room, he got a visit from three thugs. One who was apparently Sam Chicana before he was famous mobster.

He was just an underling. And of course, uh, cut his throat and almost cut out his tongue. And it's weird when you watch Joey Lewis on Ed Sullivan later on, you can still see the scar on side of his face from where he was sliced.

And if you hear him, he's in a movie with Jane Withers called Private Buckaroo and another movie from that period. And his voice is so gravelly. Apparently before this incident, he had like a very sweet, smooth, sing-songy voice. But then afterwards, he just has this crazy voice because he had to relearn how to talk and relearn how to acquire the ability to speak.

But because he never squealed on the mafia, he became like their darling. And they set him up in all the best nightclubs in America, the Copacabana. It's a weird twist. Yeah, he always played New Year's Eve in those clubs, but yeah. You know, it's funny because we've had a lot of people on the show. We've had, uh, Tony Sandler was here and Ronnie shell, a lot of people who worked for the mob, either in Vegas or in clubs. And you hear the same thing, which is they were better to us than the, than the corporate owners, the corporate landlords. But when you read your book, I mean, Jack Carter on the run from a hitman.

Shecky got beaten up at one point. What's the Jerry Lewis, excuse me, the Joey Bishop story at a club called El Dumpo? Yeah, Joey Bishop was in a comedy trio called the Bishop Brothers, and I'm pretty sure that none of them were brothers. There was a guy who lived a long life named Rummy Bishop, who Drew Friedman loves because he's got this crazy-looking face, and was in a comedy team with Drew Bishop. And he's named Rummy.

But I don't think they were actually brothers. But anyways, he was doing this trio, the Bishop Brothers, some roadhouse. In fact, there's a photo of the crime scene. A guy was murdered in the audience while they were on stage, and they just kept performing pretending that nothing was happening because they were afraid that if they got off stage, they would see too

much or they would get involved. So they just kept powering through their act. It was in New Jersey, some roadhouse in 46 or 47, yeah. And Sammy Shore, Pauly's father, witnessed a murder from the stage? Actually, before we get to that, one other thing about Joey Bishop. Yeah.

Did you know, I may have mentioned this on your show before, did you know that in the late 40s, he was briefly in a comedy team with Jack Su of Barney Miller fame? No! Oh, you're breaking news, buddy. I did not know that. Joey Bishop and Jack Su did a two-man act in the late 40s. It didn't last for very long.

I don't know why, but there's a blurb in Billboard about them breaking up after having performed together for a while. Jack Sue and Joey Bishop, Gilbert. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. That's mind-blowing. But what happened to Sammy Shore? Sammy Shore was playing a place in Danville, Illinois. Again, a fight broke out in the audience and somebody was murdered. It was a mob related dispute. Sammy Shore had a trumpet in his act at the time and he started performing the Saints Go Marching In just to sort of

calm things in some way, just again, distract people and keep performing. And in doing so, the club loved him. They said, you really held it together when that guy was murdered. We're going to hold you over for two more months. So Sammy had to keep performing in this place where there was a murder for another two months because they felt he did such a great job. There you go, Gil. There's some stories that challenge the idea that the mom was so good to all of these performers.

This is a bleak episode. I love it. I love all this dark history. Let's talk about this. This will lighten things up a little bit. You sent us this wonderful list, and this is your new preoccupation, and that is celebrity franchises. Oh. Yeah.

In the late 60s and the early 70s, this was so common, mostly because of Mini Pearl. We were talking about Hee Haw. Mini Pearl had the most successful fast food celebrity franchise of the time called Mini Pearl's Fried Chicken. And Mini Pearl's Fried Chicken was so successful

that everybody else started cashing in. And the first person to cash in on this craze was mahalia jackson mahalia jackson the gospel singer it was called mahalia jackson's glora fried chicken it's true true name you see the list i sent you of these today? I sent them to Dara. Yeah, there was many... Sorry, go ahead. What I remember is Jack Klugman had that Jack's popcorn for a little while. Yeah, he's talking about actual locations. Yeah. Like real places.

Yeah. Well, the list I have here, we have Minnie Pearl's fried chicken, Mahalia Jackson's Galora fried chicken, Eddie Arnold's fried chicken. These are all chains. Chill Will's had a chicken joint? Chill Will's Chuck Wagon barbecue. Chill Will's had his own restaurant.

Tex Ritter's Chuck Wagon restaurant. Eddie Arnold's fried chicken. Mickey Rooney's Star Barbecue. Love that. Hank William Jr.'s Barbecue Pit. Johnny Carson had a restaurant chain called Here's Johnny's. And it closed down in a scandal

because the police got all these reports that people were eating at Here's Johnny's and getting sick and they learned that the coffee pot had been spiked with methamphetamines. Holy God! Johnny Carson's restaurant.

Here's Johnny. There was the Petticoat Junction theme park in Panama City. Wait, wait, wait. How did the drugs get into the coffee pot? Apparently, some employee was doing something. I don't know. But they tested the coffee after all these people got ill and it tested positive for narcotics. Oh, geez.

What was Mickey Rooney's weenie world? That I love. That one, that's my old time favorite. Yeah, Mickey Rooney's weenie world and Mickey Rooney's Star Barbecue and Mickey Rooney's lime soda. They all came out around the same time. He was doing all these stupid harebrained schemes in almost every situation, including most of these celebrities.

In almost every situation, it was some sort of shell game where they met some sort of shady businessman who made off with all the money, and then they had to file for bankruptcy. Conway Twitty's Twitty Burgers uh conway twitty's twitty burgers conway twitty's twitty burgers god tennessee ernie ford steak and biscuits yes yes mickey mantles country cooking roger miller's king of the road motor in roger miller had a motor in

called king of the road motor and these are these are great what was going on in the petticoat junction theme park petticoat junction theme park was in panama city florida it was the only one um it was one of these things sort of like the bedrock city flintstone theme parks where they thought people would make a pilgrimage to these areas that were way out of the way if they built this stupid theme park based on a popular entity but mostly they just kind of rusted away um and there's still elements of these places you can still sort of see the petticoat junction train that they built for it somewhere but none of these places really succeeded they kind of had a very low threshold of success there was the laugh-in yeah i was just gonna ask you about the laugh-in restaurant Where was that? They sold Bippy burgers.

I think, of course. Oh, jeez. Gilbert, how did you never do this in your career? She would never do that. Whoa. Open up. Yes, I know. Gilbert's fried chickens.

Oh, my God. There was also Steve Allen Honda. Yeah, I saw the picture of that that you sent me. Steve Allen Honda. Oh, I saw the picture of that that you sent me. Steve Allen Honda. Oh, that doesn't make any sense. He ran a Honda dealership on Santa Monica Boulevard. Walter Brennan, aforementioned, had the Indian Lodge Motel in Joseph, Oregon. I think it's still there.

I'm sure he loved Native Americans. I'm sure he embraced them. There was Johnny Weissmuller's Natural Foods. There was also a place in Florida called Tarzan Land that Johnny Weissmuller was the spokesman for until it found out they didn't have the copyright or the legal basis to anything Tarzan. They changed the name to Johnny Weissmuller's Tropical Wonderland.

That's my favorite one on the list. Johnny Weissmuller's Tropical Wonderland. Hey, kids. Pack your suitcases. And then Ken Berry, who just passed away. What was the Ken Berry gift shop? It's like a dream. This is like a fever dream I'm having.

Yeah, it was in Encino. It was called It's the Berries. It's the Berries. This is making me so happy. Yeah, it was a Ken Berry gift shop in Encino. There was the Arthur Treacher service system.

That predates Arthur Treacher's fish and chips. I would assume, which was big here in the States. The service center? It's the service system. Service system. Yeah, when he was the sidekick on the Merv Griffin show, he opened this business because in the 30s he was famous for playing. In the 30s he was famous for playing butlers like Jeeves and Ask Jeeves.

He created this butler-maid staffing service. If you needed a butler-maid, you'd phone the Arthur Treacher service system and say, I need a butler. And they would supply a butler for you. And Arthur Treacher appeared in all the ads. Again, it didn't last very long. Wow, this is great. Andy Griffith's Good Eatin'. Good Eatin'.

Which was a fast food place. Gilbert, how did you never open like Gilbert Gottfried's brisket world? Yeah, this is unbelievable. No one ever came to you? No shading, white hair and a briefcase. Hey, Gottfried. The funny thing is most of these restaurants were in terrible neighborhoods, you know, like Jack in the Box.

Often if you hang out in a Jack in the Box parking lot, there's sketchy shit going on same with these places everything i looked up on mini pearls fried chicken were about uh armed robberies god being held up all these places and without exception most of these people these celebrities got ripped off they got screwed out of their investment in some way or another. It's Sunday at Many Pearls. Friends, family, and food to plenty. And of course, plenty of Many Pearls chicken. Plump, tasty, golden brown chicken fried the old-fashioned way. Not too greasy

and with just the right touch of herbs and spices. Now, maybe you won't get the chance to enjoy dinner with Minnie Pearl, but you can enjoy dinner with Minnie Pearl's chicken any time you want. Most folks say many pearls chicken is the best going, but you'll never know till you try it. Well, we saved the best one for last,

and that's Cesar Romero's Cappuccino Ristorante. Oh, boy. Oh, this I got to, this I want to devote a whole show to. This one. Cesar Romero's Cappuccino Ristorante, which was this sort of Hollywood attempt at an Italian restaurant. Back then, the word cappuccino was unknown. It was considered like a real high-end thing.

But I think that place only lasted 10 months, and they used his drawing, a drawing of Cesar Romero as the logo, the same way they used a drawing of Alan Hill Jr. as the logo. I don't know why they didn't use it. We've come full circle. It's always this artist's rendering of these restaurants.

I'm going to put this out to our listeners because I know they're going to get jazzed by this. Post on the Listener's Society your favorite celebrity theme restaurants or celebrity franchises because there's got to be even more than this. Well, I should mention Minnie Pearl was so successful with Minnie Pearl's fried chicken that she tried two other franchises. One was called – it sounds like a euphemism, but the other one was called Mini Pearl's Roast Beef, which was a restaurant chain. Well, the kingfish could have

gone there and gotten a new roast beef. If you go on eBay, you can buy patches that you can sew onto your jacket of the logo that says Mini Pearl's Roast Beef and wear it proudly on your lapel. I mean, we know the modern ones.

Go ahead. And then she also opened Mini Pearls Daycare Centers, a series of child care centers. Mini Pearl Daycare Centers? Oh, jeez. Oh, that's too much. Did all the daycare workers have a hat

with a price tag on it? I believe so. The children were forced to wear those. I think we also know what went on at the Chuck Berry Park Country Club. Yes, yeah. A lot of underage sex going on there. That was a Catskills-style resort named after Chuck Berry, endorsed by Chuck Berry, with his image on all the advertising. Chuck Berry's Park Country Club Resort.

But wasn't he hiding cameras in the ladies' rooms? You remember this story, Gilbert? Yes, yes. At restaurants that he owned? Right, right. It was like Errol Flynn. Errol Flynn had a specially designed house with people's secret two-way mirrors

and secret passageways so he could spy on all of his guests having sex whenever he would hold a big party. In fact, that house went up for sale like five years ago. It's at the top of Mulholland Drive, and it's still full of all the secret passageways and peepholes because Errol Flynn liked to spy on people and jerk off. There you go, Gil. Jeez. This is all too much

okay cliff we could do six hours or six shows you make us so happy uh just just uh which one

which one do you want gil uh the rat pack movie that was protested by neo-nazis or how maury amsterdam got in trouble with mental health advocates holy fuck

i'm i like i like anything with nazis okay got in trouble with mental health advocates. Holy fuck. I like anything with Nazis. Okay, you want to tell that one before we get out of here, Cliff? So the American Nazi Party had this crazy resurgence in the 60s where they were in the media a lot, mostly because of George Lincoln Rockwell. He was very well known

because Mark Wallace would interview him. And George Lincoln Rockwell, who was very well known because Nick Wallace would interview him. Right, sure. And George Lincoln Rockwell, who was the head of the American Nazi Party in the 60s, organized a lot of protests against movies. They protested the movie Exodus.

So there were all these people with Nazi armbands marching in front of theaters that were showing Exodus. But when they showed the movie, came out with the movie Sergeants 3, starring the Rat Pack, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Joey Bishop, Sammy Davis Jr., the American Nazi Party protested that because of the interracial familiarity of Sammy Davis.

And so that went on in Chicago for a few weeks where if you went and bought a ticket to go see Sargent's Three, there would be Nazis marching around out front. If you went and bought a ticket to go see Sergeants 3, there would be Nazis marching around out front. And it should be noted that George Lincoln Rockwell's father was a guy named Doc Rockwell, and he was a comedian in Vaudeville. Very famous comedian, contemporary of Groucho Marx, contemporary of Frank Fay. Doc Rockwell was not a racist, but his son became the leader of the American Nazi Party, George Lincoln Rockwell, and he disowned his son at that point. But yeah, they staged an organized protest against Sergeants 3. There you go, Gil. Jesus.

All right, now I have to hear the Maury Amsterdam. Okay, and then we'll get out of here. Well, I learned that Maury Amsterdam was involved in a lot of lawsuits. It was litigious. Well, he always claimed that he had written that song for the Andrews sisters, Rum and Coca-Cola. You probably heard that, that he had written that song. And his name does appear on the credits of a lot of records. He did write songs. He wrote the

Dick Van Dyke theme. Did he write the theme or did he write the lyrics that nobody used? Oh, that's interesting. Yes, the theme may have been written by a musician. I stand corrected. I'm pretty sure because he did that with Rum and Coca-Cola. Earl Hagen or somebody.

He went to Trinidad on some sort of war tour in the 40s, and he heard Rum and Coca-Cola being played by a local Calypso musician, and he basically stole it. He stole Rum and Coca-Cola, added a few new lines, and then Rum and Coca-Cola became a huge hit in the states and all over the world and people and it got back to this calypso musician he said that's my song and so he sued maury amsterdam and won but maury amsterdam's legal defense when he was defending himself and saying that they should throw this out of court this plagiarism suit he said that the plagiarism suit doesn't bear any water because the lyrics to rum and Coca-Cola

are lewd, lascivious, and obscene. Therefore, your copyright is not honored in the United States. It was a weird defense, and he lost the case. Then a few years later, Maury Amsterdam and Pat Carroll sued Hanna-Barbera because they had done an audition for the Jetsons and thought that they had been promised the voices of George and Jane Jetson. They lost that suit. And then in the late 70s, what you're referring to, Maury Amsterdam was cast in this pilot for a sitcom that took place in a psychiatric ward. It was supposed to be a takeoff on One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but a comedy. Hilarious.

And Maury Amsterdam was playing this sort of spastic Jerry Lewis type thing. And it was the late 70s, so this was already considered kind of, you don't do that anymore. And so all these sort of public health and mental health advocates came after him and ABC for running the pilot. They thought it was going to go to series, or at least Maury Amsterdam did, and mental health advocates came after him and ABC for running the pilot. They thought it was going to go to series, or at least Morrie Amsterdam did,

and he had turned down the job playing Lou Grant's boss on Lou Grant when they were preparing Lou Grant to do this other series where he played a spastic in a mental ward. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But of course that show never got made. Cliff, we could go on and on and on.

I want to recommend the book again. All this great stuff to be found is in the Comedians, Cliff's wonderful Bible of Comedy called Essential by John Hodgman. There's a Mel Brooks blurb on the back. It is a wonderful read. This kind of book you can read three or four times and then come back to it and find boy, what an undertaking.

We're just so happy you wrote it and we're so happy you came here and you came back to us. You know so much about these restaurants. Will you help Gilbert develop Gilbert Gottfried's Pastrami Palace? I'm sure we can slap some labels on the unsold bottles of Mickey Rooney's lime soda.

If you want to find that, is that, is that, is that acquirable? Well, Mickey Rooney, you can find some of these weird things on eBay from time to time. Um, the Andy Griffith, the good eaten paper hats that the, uh, people that work their war sometimes show up on eBay, mini be my new collection mini pearls fried chicken patches there's a lot of matches you can find matchbooks covers from alan hill jr's lobster barrel i don't know what your next book is about but i hope it's about fun celebrity scandals and and we only got to half of them it is and i've been researching will rogers though quite a bit for my new book i can't say what the new book's about yet but i have been researching will rogers because I left him out of the previous book because I always thought he was sort of boring. You know, you hear a lot about Will Rogers, but it doesn't sound funny to me. You know,

they say, you never met a man he didn't like. You never met a man he didn't like. And you're like, what the fuck does that even mean? It's not a joke. It's not a punchline. But I looked into it. I learned what it means. it's taken out of context he had written a list of jokes in his humor column of fake epitaphs things he wanted on his tombstone and the last one was that maudlin sentence i never met a man i didn't like it was sort of like you know don rickles insulted everybody for an hour at the end he would do that maudlin apology and say, we're all the same. We're all here for a bit of laughter. It would be like this corny wind down. Will Rogers did that.

He would do this thing of the mock epitaphs, and then he would wind down with this corny maudlin thing and say, actually, I want my tombstone to say I've traveled the world and I never met a man I didn't like. And after that, he said, I wish I could die right now so somebody could start carving the tombstone, which was a weird thing to say. Things taken out of context. How about that? Gilbert, all I can say is take heart because you would have been on Hitler's list.

Had you existed, had you broken through in the 40s. Don't you think so, Cliff? Don't you think he'd have made it? He may have. He may have. Any quick plugs before we get you out of here? No, not really.

Not really. But if people want to see some images from those restaurants and stuff on oldshowbiz.tumblr.com is a sort of page that I use to dump all my research materials. Great. As I'm researching and discovering things, use to dump all my research materials. Great. As I'm researching and discovering things, I just post it for other people to see.

And it's all tagged, so you could click on the word Cesar Romero, and it'll take you to pages and pages of Cesar Romero-related stuff. And, of course, the classic showbiz site that still has your great interviews on there. Yes, that's all out there. So, yeah, no real plugs. You know, you asked me what I've been up to, and I haven't been up to anything other than watching old movies and discovering these stories. I'm like you guys. I'm obsessed with this shit, you know.

That's why we love talking to you. So come back and we'll do it again. Sounds great. Sounds great. We'll get to the rest of these. Well, this is one of those shows I feel like I have to lie down. Gilbert's mouth has been agape for the last 45 minutes. I feel like I desperately need a shower.

Come on, you got Goober pretending he had a vagina. It's unbelievable. Stu Gillum attacking a guy with an axe. We won't go into the stories, but what's on that list that we didn't get to? That list that I gave you of all the scandals. Is it the things that... Oh, God. We'll do it another time.

Just name one. I just want to hear some of the lists that I don't have in front of me. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's long. I printed out three pages. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah. We'll do them next time for sure.

Do you know, I remember one time working with Dom DeLuise where he said he was doing a show for Jerry Lewis and Jerry Lewis would come over to him with a stick and balls tucked between his legs. Really? Yes. It was a trend. I'm expecting that from you by the end of the evening, Gil. I know you're not derivative and Dom DeLuise said

in the middle of you know a million dollar show and everything's going wrong why would he be doing this add that one to the list Cliff oh man everybody get your hands on the comedians go to Cliff's great websites and we will see you again, buddy.

Thank you for doing this. Okay, this is Cliff Nuzle Nozzle. Cliff Nuzle Nozzle? Nuzle. He was a famous Nazi. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, guys. We'll talk soon.

All right. You can have my coffee You can have my tea Just you let my fella be I'm jealous Jealous hearted me I'm just as jealous as I can be Now I like fiddle-style crowd I get my mail on the rural route

I'm jealous, jealous hearted me I'm just as jealous as I can be I've got a man and a bulldog too My man don't bite but my bulldog do I'm jealous, jealous hearted me I'm just as jealous as I can be Now I've got a soul, got the best in town What I need's a good man to turn the damper down I'm jealous, tell authority it's me. I'm just as jealous as I can be. Now I may be old enough in years

But I can climb a hill without changing gears I'm jealous, jealous hearted me I'm just as jealous as I can be Now, I ain't no beauty, don't dress so smart. I'm a big, gentle, up-celebrity. I'm a celebrity. Celebrity. I'm just a girl.

I'm talking to you. Hi, Mark. and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.