Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 255. Marx Brothers Round Table with Robert S. Bader, Josh Frank and Bill Marx

Episode Date: April 15, 2019

Lifelong Marx Brothers fanatics Gilbert and Frank are joined by a panel of Marx aficionados, including authors Robert S. Bader("Four of the Three Musketeers"), Josh Frank ("Giraffes on Horseback Salad") and Harpo's son, Bill Marx. Also: Chico works blue, Salvador Dali meets Louis B. Mayer, Harpo shares a bill with Allan Sherman and Bill visits the set of "Love Happy." PLUS: "The Big Store"! Harpo goes to Russia! Groucho livens up the party! Zeppo inspires Cary Grant! And Bill reveals his favorite Marx Brothers movie! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. A fresh voice can speak to you and open your ears and your mind to new views and new perspectives. The call of the wild, a crescendo of culture. Listen as a chorus of fresh voices moves you,

taking you to greater heights. Add your voice to the mix and let fresh answer back with perfect harmony in pure Michigan. Keep it fresh at michigan.org. This is Robert Wagner, and you're listening to Gilbert Godfried's amazing, colossal podcast. And these guys are great. hi this is gilbert gottfried and this is gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast

with my co-host frank santoadre and our engineer Frank Furtarosa. We're doing something a little different this week. Instead of our usual solo guests, we've assembled a crack panel of experts to discuss one of our favorite subjects on this show, the Marx Brothers. Josh Frank is a writer, producer, director, and composer who's written screenplays and plays, including an authorized adaptation of Werner Herzog's Strozek. Close. That's close enough. Strozelnik. Adaptation of Werner Hausog's Strozeck.

Close. That's close enough. Strozelneck. Strezel Biven. He's the author of the books Fool the World, the oral history of a band called the Pixies, and In Heaven Everything is Fine, The history of a band called the Pixies. And in heaven, everything is fine. The unsolved life of Peter Ivers and the lost history of New Wave Theater. His newest passion project is Giraffes on Horseback Salad, Salvador Dali, the Marx Brothers,

and the greatest movie never made, the graphic novelization of the legendary proposed screen collaboration between the Marxes and Salvador Dali. Robert S. Bader makes his second appearance on the podcast he's a historian writer and producer of the documentaries dick cabot's vietnam the legendary bean crosby the dawn of sound how movies learn to talk and you bet your life the lost episodes he's also the editor How Movies Learn to Talk, and You Bet Your Life, The Lost Episodes.

He's also the editor of Groucho Marx and other short stories and tall tales. And an exclusively research book. Exhaustively. It was exclusive too.

Fuck me. And an exhaustively research book that continues to impress Frank and me. Four of the Three Musketeers, the Marx Brothers on stage. And finally, on the phone with us from California, On the phone with us from California, Bill Marks is the last surviving person to have, and television, theater, and ballet, and it's a terrific read. Welcome, boys. Well, we can all go home now.

Yeah. There's no time left for the show. No. Whatever you said about me, I'm so tired. I got to go lie down. How are you, Bill? Hey. Thanks for doing this. My extreme pleasure so far.

Yeah. Do you know these two scofflaws that are sitting here with us? Josh and Robert? Yes, I know. Yep, I know them. And that's as far as I'm going to take with this. I'm not going to say anything more. I think that's a vote of confidence.

Yes. Now, Gilbert and I were looking at giraffes on horseback salad. And by the way, Josh, a nice guest who brought gifts. You know. Very rare. Yeah, he brought us a poster of the non-existent movie. What a mensch. And a t-shirt of the non-existent movie. What a mensch. And a t-shirt of the non-existent.

Now, this, you know, growing up, I remember we'd all hear these horror stories of about someone who dropped acid and they had such a bad trip, they either jumped off a bridge or wound up spending the rest of their life in an insane asylum. That's what this book looks like to me. Well, that's the whole idea. Now you don't have to do those other things. You see?

This is a gift, you know? He was looking at it before and he was saying it's like the kind of movie that in the 60s people would use as an excuse to get high. Yeah, like you'd go see Fantasia and Yellow Submarine. First you get stoned and then see those. And this would be definitely, if it existed nowadays, people would get stoned and there'd be mobs of people wanting to watch TV. Wait until you lick page 34.

He has. Tell us the genesis, Josh. I mean, this thing, everybody, every Marx Brothers fan knows about this long lost project and it was a long lost movie because there was no movie and there was really no screenplay either.

Right. Well, I actually didn't, I've been a fan of the Marx brothers since i was seven eight years old and and um i've been studying you know lost pop culture histories for 20 years now and i actually didn't know about this um until really the last seven or eight years um i heard mention of it at one point just in passing that Dali had attempted to write something, but it really wasn't until about six years ago when I decided that I really wanted my next book to be taking a lost or unmade movie by someone or some group of people that I admired and trying to uncover what was left to work with and try and finish their work. I really, I felt that that

would be something really interesting and cool to do. So after I finished my third book, I started scouring the internet for all of those lists of the hundred great character roles that no one ever got to see or the 50 best unmade movies and there was a ton of these lists of unmade movies and on

all of them along with Werner Herzog, that's how you pronounce it It's not Herzog, Barry's how you pronounce it. It's not Herzlberry? Mr. Poivelman! Along with Herzog, he wanted to make this like a Spanish, Mexican Civil War epic. And then Kubrick's Napoleon was on all the list.

Of course, Dune. And on pretty much all the list was Salvador Dali's Giraffes on Horseback Salad. And it was really the first time that I saw that this was legit. This was not just sort of this silly myth. People were talking

about this, and there was even a couple sentences about things that dolly had wanted to have happen in it and and they were nuts like you know like like harpo uh cracking uh a nut on a midget and then handing it to groucho and for you gil yeah and then groucho eats the nut and spits it back in the, in the, in the, anyway, monkeys and just really crazy stuff. So,

but I was intrigued, you know, because I, I'm never one just to believe that what I'm seeing in front of me is all that there is. Like if there's something about something, there's probably more about that something somewhere, if you look hard enough. And so I sort of...

And then at the same time, in my head, there was that sort of delusions of grandeur thing coming on, which is like, I could make the next Marx Brothers movie. You know, like, I could be that guy. You're going to insert a little person where he said midgets and no one boycotts.

Oh God, you're listening to the wrong show buddy just checking dolly specifically used the word midget there you go i'm quoting dolly but so the point was is that that's sort of where the the spark of maybe i could do something with this started and then the more i dug and the more i reached out to the dolly foundation who sent me to you know I dug and the more I reached out to the Dolly Foundation who sent me to, you know, this museum in Paris. When you reached out to them,

did you say, hello, Dolly? Yeah. He's been hanging on to that since you were booked. That's why you were booked. Surprisingly. The only reason

we booked you is because I've been sitting on that joke for years. Now you could fucking leave. It's all downhill from here then. Surprisingly, the Dolly Foundation. Go ahead, Bill. I'll tell you a happy story.

Hang on, Josh. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Bill. Referencing the midget, I just want you to know, Dad got off. He got a very, very good attorney and got off. He didn't have to go to jail. Bill, give us before Josh tells us about his journey of making this thing happen, give us a little historical context. When did you

become aware of this project this mystery script about 20 minutes ago actually when frank called uh i would i would say maybe uh i met josh last year and he informed me of this absurdity, and I wished him well, and lo would I know, but it is one of the most remarkable, unusual, hardcover comic books you'll ever read in your life. Yeah, he pulled it off. Yeah, he really did, because in the fashion that it is presented, it's unique. And let's face it, we're talking about Dali and the Marx Brothers, both of entities were absolutely unique. And it was a great choice. It's a marvelous,

what I would call, icebreaker at a dinner party. Give us even more historical context. Tell us a little, and I'm going to come back to Josh on this journey, but tell us a little bit about your dad's relationship with Dolly.

Well, I'd rather listen to Josh, quite frankly. I have a question for Bill that I think is... I'm riveted, okay? Bill, tell them about your mom and her interaction with Dolly, because I love this. Harpo's wife was the most realistic person about this, because I think she thought the whole thing was a load of nonsense. She told me that it was a load of nonsense. Yeah, and then we'd like to hear what happened to the harp.

Yes, Bill, the harp that Dolly sent. We'd like to hear what happened to the harp. Yes, Bill, the harp that Dolly sent. Well, for those of you who are not familiar with lost screenplays or books or whatever, Robert had the distinct, I'm going to say, pleasure of co-writing my mother's biography. And so he spent a considerable amount of time with Susan, who was not exactly the most sentimental person in the entire world. Probably more interesting than all the Marx Brothers put together, she carved out a life of her own in spite of the fact that she was shuttled as a child from place to place to place to place

and never had any friends of her own while she was young until she met Paulette Goddard when she was I think 16 or something at Ned Wayburn's dance class and then they both went on to the Ziegfeld Follies, and then Mom went into Columbia and Paramount Pictures, and she hated show business.

From the time her mother put her in show business, she couldn't wait to get out. But there was no place for her to turn except toward her mother, who was basically a stage mom who vicariously wanted to experience success through her daughter. And when she finally, Susan Fleming finally met Harpo, and they got married. She became Mrs. Harpo Marks, a totally different entity. And she lived on and on and on for this man.

And if they were alive today, they would still be married. He died on their 28th wedding anniversary that day on September 28th. And so 28 and it's multiplied into infinity will always be a very special number for Mark's family. She could give an opinion on absolutely everything that ever happened on the planet. And she had strong opinions about Dolly. Is that what you're referencing, Robert? Well, I asked her specifically about the time when Dolly visited them, and there was a language barrier, but she said they spoke with their eyes.

But, Bill, tell them about when the gift arrived and just the reaction to it because i think it's i think it's really practical of susan what she well you tell them yeah it's a picture of it in joshua's book uh one day at the door arrived a huge package it was from salvador dali and they opened it, and lo and behold, it was a harp. And the harp was a different kind of harp that you would normally see. Its frame was the same, but the frame was covered with silverware. with silverware. It was all pasted on,

and there was cellophane over the entire frame. And then for the strings, instead they were barbed wire that was constructed for the harp. And this was Dolly's present to dad with this weird looking object that sat in our living room, I guess, for maybe five or six months. And then one day Susan says, I can't stand this thing. This is awful. Who would ever want anything like that? And she went and she took it to the garbage.

And we have no idea whether that garbage man is worth $260 million. What Gilbert said, what it would be worth today. There's a great picture of it in Josh's book. And he posed for for a mock photo a gag photo right he bandaged up his hands yeah yeah he uh dolly they had a correspondence before dolly came over to paint him and dolly sent the harp and then harpo wrote back with a photograph of him with his hands all bandaged up and um he wrote, you know, thanks for the harp. And if you ever come this way, I'd be happy to be smeared by you as long as I could return the favor. So he's basically saying, if you come to America, we can paint each other. You know, it's easy to say, oh, what would that harp be worth?

But if you knew Susan, it was just a harp that no one could play. What the hell do we need it for? She was really, no joke, practical in every sense. But boy, oh boy, your great, great, great grandparents could, I mean, your great, great, great grandkids could probably retire on what that harp would go for. Well, what I love about Robert's experience with Susan, it was the way she told it, she never told it to me. He had a very, very close relationship with her for a year or so, I think. We worked on the book for a couple of years, but I spent a couple of weeks with her in Rancho Mirage, and then we corresponded a lot, and I visited again, but we talked

on the phone, we wrote letters and things, and she was just really great about it, but what I noticed is she didn't necessarily want to finish the book. She wanted to keep working on the book. Oh, there's something sweet about that. Which might be why we never finished it. Yeah. I'll tell you, I did try to get her to talk about the Dali visit and the screenplay. And this is not something you'd put on the jacket for a blurb.

Because I asked her what she thought of it. And she said, an absolute piece of crap and a waste of time. I actually put that in the book. You did. That's right. I did. It's in there. That's right.

That's right. See, this is one of those that if the movie had been made, I know it would be beyond horrible, but I wish to God it had been made. Yeah. It would have been absolutely fascinating. Well, the key thing is Chico would have needed the money, so it would have been absolutely fascinating. Well, the key thing is Chico would have needed the money, so he would have been on board. Absolutely.

Why don't you ask Groucho why this movie should have been made? Oh, God. Okay, I'm going to be... Groucho didn't actually want... He actually had a pretty rough response to it, too.

He said, it's not funny, it wouldn't play. Wouldn't play. But Gilbert, if you were Groucho and I was to ask you, why didn't the Dolly movie get made? Because she needs the money. Well, as my mother would say, whenever she started a sentence that she was rather negative, the first two words that came out of her mouth, oh, Christ. That was that. She'd go, oh, Christ, it's no good. Oh, Christ, it's this and that.

Those were her two favorite words. You know, one of the greatest things about talking to Susan was her completely candid assessments of the Marx Brothers. Oh, geez. It was really incredible because when my Groucho book came out, I sent a copy to her back in 93 when it came out. And when I was talking to her, I didn't ask her what she thought of it or anything. She said, I really liked your book. I like it better than I like Groucho. Wow.

Bill, I was reading your book, and you said that she was one of the women that would not put up with Groucho's insults. That's right. And she was, at least in my lifetime, at least in my lifetime, was the one woman that he respected and dearly loved. He really loved her, I think partly because he knew how good she was for his brother. Groucho would say in interviews that Harpo, all the good qualities that the Mox Brothers' mother Minnie had were in Harpo.

He inherited all of her good qualities. Well, I would like to kick the bucket knowing that I had no enemies. That's really basically my hope and belief that I'm going to work on that as best as I could, because Dad died without an enemy. Oh, that's nice. It's not a very easy thing to do, and I'm trying to emulate him very poorly, I might add. That's nice, Bill. There's a great line in your book, by the way, I think it was attributed

to Ben Hecht, who said the Harpo could light up a room simply by sitting in it, which is a beautiful thing. I know I'm paraphrasing. And in the entire realm of show business, you could not find anyone with an unkind word to say about Harpo. Yeah, what a lovely thing. And I've never found anybody with an unkind word to say about Bill

except the three of us here. Yeah, what a lovely thing. And I've never found anybody with an unkind word to say about Bill except the three of us here. Yeah, Gilbert will have that same reputation when he's gone. Let me just get back to... Let me add myself. Let me get back to Josh's book for a second. So, Josh, you imagined it of a certain period. As long as you were taking this sort of what-if ride, you imagined that it wasn't just made by the Marx Brothers, but it was made under Thalberg. Yeah, well, in order to pull it

off, I felt it was really important to focus on authenticity and make some rules, and that I should stick by the rules. Otherwise, it would be a big mess. So the first rule was that it was 1937, and this was actually being made then. It wasn't being made 10 years later. It was being made when it would have been made, 1937. The other rule was MGM would have never greenlit it in a million years had Thalberg not been there. And unfortunately, he wasn't. He had passed away.

So I resurrected Thalberg so that he could green light it. Because what really happened is Harpo managed to get a meeting with Louis B. Mayer. Yes. And Mayer didn't feel very kindly. Mayer wasn't a big Marx Brothers fan. Yes. One of the little known things is that the Marx Brothers weren't actually signed to MGM. Mayer didn't want them. They had a contract with Thalberg to work at MGM in what was then like the Thalberg production unit.

And the reason the Marx Brothers really left MGM after a day at the races is because they had a clause in the contract that if Thalberg was unavailable for 30 days or something, they could terminate the contract. Well, he was dead, so he was unavailable for 30 days. They actually re-signed with MG, and people say something, oh, they got loaned out, or they went over to RKO for one picture and came back. They made a totally separate deal at RKO for three pictures, only ended up making one because room service didn't do that well. And then Mayer got nervous when they signed with RKO for big money, and he signed them to a three-picture deal before room service even came out.

But Thalberg was the reason they were there, and when Thalberg was gone, they were gone. Did I step on you too much there, Josh? No, I wanted you to take it away because I didn't know what the hell I was going to say next in order to actually not make a mistake with that history. I also found it interesting that you were a little sad that you couldn't use Zeppo. You were being faithful to the period.

Yes. But you're a Zeppo fan, as I think all of us are. And actually, at the last minute, there was like five days left before the book had to be frozen in time. And I said, I'm adding Ze Zeppo in and I'm adding a reference to Mrs. Rittenhouse in because I was like oh my god there's no reference there's no reference and the thing is that

in theory the idea of this movie is that this is a prequel to all the Marx Brothers movies so in theory this is like this is my George Lucas going back thing. Because I wanted to have a fresh start. I didn't want there to be these others.

This was the first story. And I figured that would actually help because it would make it okay for me to put in some references to some of their other movies without it being me stealing from those movies because really those movies were stealing from me, you know, because this happened before those movies. Got it. I don't know if that'll hold up in court, but I love it.

Interesting take. And Harpo is playing like a Spanish diplomat. Well, that's what throws you right away. It's not Harpo and a Harpo playing a Harpo character. Please don't ask me about this part. I have no idea what I did. You're waiting to see Harpo in a wig and beeping the horn and the big coat. And instead, he's like a Spanish diplomat.

Well, he's not technically Harpo at first. This is an origin story. Okay. Harpo at first. This is an origin story. This is the origin story of how Harpo became Harpo and how the Surrealist Woman became the first Surrealist superhero. This is a graphic novel, so you have to have origin story. Absolutely. Sorry, Bill? the book is masterfully, artfully done by some lady. Is that correct? Manuela Portega in Barcelona, Spain. She really captures Dolly.

She certainly does. And the same thing can be said for the layout of Robert's most recent debacle. Have it right in front of me. Four of the Three Musketeers. layout of Robert's most recent debacle. I have it right in front of me. Four of the Three Musketeers. It is a phenomenal book. It is. If you're a Marx Brothers fan.

And even if you're not, I've read it twice. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. the final seconds of overtime or a shot on goal in the first period. So whatever the sport, whatever the moment, it's never ordinary. At Bet365. Must be 19 or older. Ontario only. Please pay responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca.

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A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Before we jump off on this, as long as we've got Bill on the phone and we brought Zeppo up,

and we'll come back to the various books. But Bill, Gilbert and I, and I assume the two gentlemen sitting here with us, are of the opinion that the Marx Brothers pictures are better with Zeppo in them. And I would love your take. I think people would be interested to hear. Well, okay. The four versus the three. That the Marx Brothers Paramount pictures were funnier straight through.

They were really kind of more the Marx Brothers. And when they went over to MGM, Thalberg saw them as headliners that they should have been. And he made motion pictures where intermittently they were absolutely hilarious. He brought in a love interest along with it. He had a more complete fun for the-the-whole-family type of concept for them. I still think that Probably Not at the Opera is the best picture that they made. It's not my favorite. My favorite.

Hold on to your hats. I know what you're going to say what? go ahead you're going to say your favorite picture is Go West? yes

how did you know that? we all know that but we forgive you yeah yeah that I think I think I want to hang up on you

I'm sorry Bill well give us you have specific reasons it was it was my favorite picture because on you. I'm sorry, Bill. Well, give us specific reasons. It was my favorite picture because the brothers didn't want to do it. And they went ahead and did it anyway, and you could

tell Groucho's energy wasn't there, and Chico's energy was long gone by then. I feel that Dad carried that picture, and he was so wonderful in it. And maybe that's just because I'm his son, and I look for little things at the dinner table or when he's practicing the harp or when he's playing the harp.

I looked at him in that picture as pure dad. I didn't see him as Harpo. That's sweet. And that's why it's my favorite picture. But far away, not as good as others. I agree with Bill that it's a wonderful Harpo picture. And I think the stuff they did in their stage tour for it, it really is the best stuff in the film.

That opening sequence in the station is brilliant. That's good. Incredible Marx brothers. And it's one of those rarely seen things with the three of them together doing something really funny and that you don't see much of that, but I don't really watch go West the same way that I watch say monkey business. I know Josh is a fan of Monkey Business.

Oh, that's a great movie. Yeah, I love that. And Harpo kind of steals the show in a lot of Monkey Business, too. And I mean, I think most, I believe, and I think most people, that their ultimate, the peak, was Duck Soup. I love Duck Soup, but I'm a Monkey Business guy. That's funny. I'm a Horse Feathers guy.

Oh, Horse Feathers is great, too. I just love Horse Feathers. Yeah, but on any business guy. That's funny. I'm a horse feathers guy. Oh, horse feathers is great, too. I just love horse feathers. Yeah, but on any given day, I could say duck soup is my favorite. Right, right. How I wake up in the morning, which one is my favorite Paramount? Bill, tell us about being on the set of Love Happy when you were a kid. What memories do you have? I was 11 and a half years old, and Dad was having a tough time in the movie with the producer,

and it was not supposed to be a Marx Brothers picture. Well, it turned out to be a Marx Brothers picture, and the producer had been lying all along. It was to be just a picture featuring Dad. picture featuring dad. And anyway, it was one of the more sour experiences in his professional career. But he went ahead and he did this movie as the lead. And it was not the dad that I knew right at that time. I resurrected his image when I went to Great Britain after the movie was completed. We did a vaudeville tour with Chico.

But there was a moment in my time which I will not forget, and that is that I went down to the set one day, and during a break, I said, here, Dad, look at what I just made in school. I had been forced to paint something or draw something, to paint something or draw something. And I'd draw a pastel of a Palomino horse. And I was so proud of myself. And it wasn't very good, I guess. I don't know.

But I showed it to Dad, and he said, that's the most wonderful picture. It's just fabulous, and you keep up the good work. Well, of course, I could hardly draw a straight line, but nevertheless, he gave me that kind of encouragement all along that I really wish that parents would give their children and give them purpose, give them a feeling of importance and a passion for doing something that they love. And that's what we had with music. Dad and I, he was the most passionate

man when it came to sitting down and discovering himself. He was a guy who wouldn't have known Shostakovich from Frank Sinatra, but he paid attention over the years and listened to all kinds of music, and he learned how to play things that many harpists couldn't play. And he never read a note of music. So we had a fun time together developing a way for him to learn new songs. I just wish parents would encourage their children the way he encouraged me. I mean, he had confidence in me that I didn't have, but he kept crowding me softly, and I wound up being a part of his professional life for 12 years.

There's a thing I'd like to just point out about Harpo that I learned from Groucho's daughter, Miriam. Yeah. Things weren't always so wonderful at Groucho's house when she was a teenager. And she used to escape and run over to Harpo's house to be around them because she just wanted to be around him. And Susan always said, why don't you stay for dinner?

And they just gave her that haven like life at harpo's has been like a dream i mean there's something surreal about that what kid wouldn't want to be there that's that great picture in your book bill uh i guess it's from christmas with you and your siblings and it's just the picture of the picture of happiness and it might have been taken in april because the christ Christmas tree stayed up like all year. Yeah, it did stay up a long time. And we had lights outside and a jacaranda tree. And one year, it was Christmas lights. And one year after Christmas, Dad said, let's keep them on all year round so we don't have

to, you know, do this again next year. And he decided that at the end of a particular day that somebody might have done something really well in school or whatever, we would turn the lights on that night to celebrate Minnie's paper on horses and Jimmy's ability to do something, and Alex's the same. So we used those lights to great advantage. That's one tree that never came down after Christmas. That's lovely. one tree that never came down after Christmas.

That's lovely. So, other than the ability to speak, it seems like Harpo really was that character on screen and off. You could say that. In fact, I think I just heard you say it. Bill, tell us, since Gilbert brought up the not speaking, and Robert, it's in your book, tell us since Gilbert brought up the not speaking and Robert it's in your book. Tell us about dad turning down a significant sum of money when he was offered to say one word. Oh, that's a night in Casablanca. David Lowe wanted Harpo to say the word murder.

And well, do you want me to, I could tell it. Either one of you. Sure. His answer was I'm not going to tear down something that I've spent decades building, and he was offered something, I think $50,000. Admirable. To say the one word. Now, I'm sure Chico would have said, do you want me to not talk for $50,000?

Yeah. What Chico would have done for an extra 50 grand in 1946, right? Harpo and Chico agreed to play a UK tour together, and Chico went out there first and played his own stuff, and they didn't rehearse anything. And when Harpo came out, they were going to do something together, and Harpo went to see Chico's act, and he came back to Susan, and he was really disgusted because he said,

it's all blue, Chico's doing blue material. It really upset Harpo. So Chico disappointed Harpo, and Susan was really, when I talked to her about it in 1995, she was still pissed off about it. Yeah, yep, you're right. They went to the UK because Chico had to have money. And William Morris, I think it was Jack Kalsheim was their agent there. He said, okay, Harpo, you're going to get 75%, and Chico, 25%.

And Dad said, no, I'm not going. It's a 50-50 split. And that was the way it wound up. And that's one of the reasons why Dad was very hurt by Chico's behavior is that he was willing to do this basically for Chico. Dad didn't have to go to the UK, really, not because he had enough money but he he was tired he had finished a picture and he was oh let's see 19 well 88 12 and 12 and he was already in his 60s Wow Wow. And mom saw

the effect that it had on dad and I think that's what really stayed with her and why she reacted the way she did when Robert was there. Interesting. Bill, the one thing I really want you to

mention that was just a very profound discovery for me was when I came to visit you and I saw that on all the walls there were paintings. And I asked you, who are all these paintings by? And you said, Dad. And it just blew my mind because I've been a Marx Brothers fan and particularly a Harpo fan my entire life. You expected something different. You expected photographs from the movies. Photographs from the movies.

And the last thing I expected was to find out that my of Harpo and Dali's short friendship, but how it affected their lives in so many ways with Dali, you know, ending up writing this movie for the Marx Brothers and Harpo, you know, really, I think, partially appreciating Dali's interest in him because you know he was painting too and i think he appreciated uh that that artistry i was hoping you'd maybe talk a little about that well dad had a heart attack um i forget what year he had 1958 i think he started having heart attacks okay uh and he got very depressed because the doctor said, you will not be able to work for about a year at your profession. And so he got very depressed and decided that he had to find something creative inside of himself. And so he discovered going back to painting, he had painted over the years, he had painted Dabble just a little bit here and there. And

there's a wonderful picture of a clown that's in Harpo Speaks and a picture of something that he did, a self-portrait, in my book. And so he went and he started to paint, and he realized that this was another part of his passion of just discovering things. He was, you know, he could have been Christopher Columbus. He was always out to discover something. And he just loved doing it. He would sit for seven, eight hours in his studio, working away and think nothing of it. And then, of course, he was able to go back to work. And then he had another heart attack. And then in 1961,

after that heart attack, he was no longer depressed. He said, why am I being this way? From now on, I'm on velvet. I'm living on velvet. That was his statement. And he had changed his whole attitude about everything. And if you research what he did in 1961 until the time he passed in 1964, you'll realize he collaborated on his autobiography.

He did numerous television shows as a guest artist. He did a number of concerts, charity concerts. He was all over the place. And I think he even played golf with Sam Snead around in that time. There was a show called Celebrity Golf. golf with Sam Snead around in that time. There was a show called Celebrity Golf. And he was more active in those three years

living on velvet than he had been in the previous 10 years. I love that. Love that expression. I'd be remiss if I didn't do a shameless plug for the Marx Brothers

TV collection DVD set which contains Celebrity Golf with Harpo and Sam Snead. Right. I heard that he liked to occasionally take his clothes off on the golf course, Bill. Well, I had the privilege of hawking his book when it came out in paperback in 1985. Excuse me.

And I went up and down the East Coast, and I wound up on the David Letterman show. Oh, yeah. And if you want, you can YouTube it, and it shows my appearance on the Letterman show, and I talk about being the first person probably that ever played a round of golf with a guy who was totally nude. Do you remember what Letterman asked you? Where did he keep the tees? That's right. Didn't you say, Bill, didn't you say in your book that he would hit a couple of holes

and then jump into somebody's swimming pool to cool off and then get back on the course? Precisely, yeah. He's a happy guy. It was 110 degrees down where he lived in Palm Springs. But he could have been a legitimate nudist had he not been a famous person. I love that. There's a phrase Bill once used that I love. He called his father a pioneer nudist. I love that. There's a phrase that Bill once used that I love. He called his father a pioneer nudist.

I love that. That's great. What about the show that Harpo did, a strange show in Russia? Well, I know that Robert would be able to tell you a little bit about that. I was never here. I hadn't been conceived yet. Well, neither was I. No excuse, Bill.

Well, I can tell you this. Alexander Wolcott, Harpo's great friend, was really the promoter behind getting him to go there. He was the first Western artist to go post-Russian Revolution to play in the then Soviet Union. And he went there in December of 33. He played Leningrad in Moscow. And in Harpo Speaks, there's just some wonder.

I recommend everybody who's hearing this who hasn't read Harpo Speaks immediately catch up and go out and get a copy of that book right now. Stop listening to this and go get Harpo Speaks. Well, actually, after you get my book. After you buy San Horvath Salad. And Bader's book. Right. Presumably,

they have our books. They're here. But he talks about the experience of going to Russia and creating a show to do there. And there's a wonderful story

where he is asked to do some of his stuff in front of an arts council of avowed communists with zero sense of humor in a cold, empty theater. And he's doing the thing where he's dropping the knives and they're looking at him like,

who is this and what are we doing here? And I just read it in Harpo Speaks. It's charming. But he went there as almost like an arts liaison to the United States. And he got standing ovations and he would joke about it because of his last name. Go ahead, Bill. The interesting thing that I took away from all of this

is that he had to prove to the authorities that 300 knives in your suitcase was not to go after the head of the Soviet Union. And they said, well, show us what it is. And he did his routine for the authorities. And as they were dropping, it turns out that they had a carpet and you couldn't hear the the sound of the knives dropping which is half of the fun the way he spaced everything and uh this and he was terrified that they because nobody laughed at all.

It was, but somehow or another, I don't remember why they still allowed him to do that. was that Wolcott was really kind of the reason that Dad called. He said, you know, there's this lady, I'm a confirmed bachelor, and I'm 44 years old, 45 years old, and she's pressing me to get married. Of course, that was Susan. He says, I got to get away from this between pictures. What can you do? And Alexander Wolcott arranged for the tour of Russia. I just thought I'd throw that in.

What year was that? Late 33. And what is your middle name, Bill? My middle name is, let me look at my, hang on inside my lapel here. It says, Made Expressly for William Wolcott Marks. There you go. There's something else in Harpo Speaks About Russia that I love. They assigned him a pair of writers because they thought his show was incomprehensible

and the audience wouldn't go for it. And Harpo, in the book book calls the writers Kaufmansky and Riskindoff. That's funny. That's great. I heard they added, it was just like, that was surreal what they did to this show.

People running around on stage. Yeah, they made an 18-minute vaudeville act out of it where he didn't know what the plot was he didn't care but he would take his cue and just go do the part where harpo it's almost like the joke of susan would talk about this they give him a marks brother script and they didn't know how to write for harpo and would just say harpo does something funny here or harpo business and you can see original manuscripts where it says harpo business

and it's his job to come up with what harpo is going to do and in the russian one act play that was apparently 18 minutes long they would do this little plot with these russian actors and then harpo would come on and drop some knives and they'd all look at him like he was crazy and they would do something and then harpo would play the clarinet and then they would do something just they'd worked them in that's really funny it seems to be like a running thing over generations because dolly's script uh he wrote you know this uh basically a treatment you know um and it was mostly just these crazy scenes and ideas and small character descriptions that gave some hints as to what the movie was supposed to be about. But whenever there was going to be a Marx Brothers bit, he didn't know how to write Marx Brothers bits.

So he would put in the margin in between his scenes, insert Marx Brothers mayhem here. And so that's how we... It's been going on for generations. What did you think when you found out that he was going to attempt this impossible project, Robert? Well, I thought he was crazy. Yeah. Which, if you want to deal with the estates of the Marx Brothers, that's a good attribute.

So I thought he was in a good position to do it. Yeah. It's really an interesting thing because he took up, first of all, what I love is a guy who wants to cover something about the March Brothers that hasn't been touched. Yeah. So I thought that was a great starting point for him. I also want to just say that this podcast is very much like one of the Paramounts because Zeppo vanished after 20 minutes. The Zeppo conversation? I got more Zeppo questions.

I got more Zeppo, but what I do. I've even got Gummo questions buddy oh I had lunch with Gummo's son last week there you go we can talk a little Gummo there you go

now there's a story I don't know if either one of you if you probably know it or want to tell it of Harpo when he was in a cab with Alexander Wolcott and Alexander Wolcott falls asleep.

And I heard what happened was, so Wolcott's asleep in the cab, and Harpo says to the cab driver, he gives him directions to like a strip club in Brooklyn. You know this story, Robert?bert no but i like it and and he you know and and harpo gets out at his stop and the cab driver's driving him to a strip club in brooklyn wolcott and then at about three in the morning the phone rings at Harpo's house and Harpo says hello and Wolcott goes, you fucking Jew. Oh, I've heard that story. I think he calls him a Jew son of a bitch.

Yes, yes, yes. Does this ring a bell, Bill? And a fawn's ass. Fawn's ass was a good term. I have a gummo story I think Frank is going to like. Okay, go for it. Because this is a Bob Mark story who's Bill's cousin, good friend of all. And when Bob was about nine years old, they were asking the kids in the classroom who their fathers were and what they did.

And Bob said that his father was Harpo. And Harpo was the ideal father. Everybody, Bill can attest to that. When Gummo found out, he says, Bobby, why did you tell them that Harpo was your father? He goes, come on, Dad, whoever heard of you? Very funny. It could be a knife in the back, you know,

if you look at it that way. But no, it's just a back, you know, you look at it that way. But no, it's just a kid, you know, trying to make it in the school room, you know, that's all. And Bob doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but I guess he was just being quite honest. He's a funny guy, though. He's funny at nine. That's a good line.

Yeah, he is. We were having a discussion before we got on the air of some stuff that, and I think Groucho would get in trouble a lot when he'd be interviewed. Yeah, and there's some really good stuff in some of the interviews from the 70s where he was not caring anymore and maybe a little compromised. And, you know, it's all well known to everyone

that Gilbert's impersonation of old man Groucho. Gilbert's also compromised. Yeah. You know, we can tell this because Gilbert got to meet Chico's daughter Maxine towards the end of her life and he used to do a pretty devastating

imitation of Groucho as an elderly man and he would freak Maxine out with it occasionally and you know there's an interview that was done in the 70s

Richard J. Noble he did books we all know March for the Scrapbook of course with a lot of really great interviews with Groucho but Groucho ended up trying to sue to have the book stopped but it was too late because the interviews were published uncensored shall we say and there's one of them

where he's talking about a particular act that the march brothers had before chico was with them and an old boy innocently says to groucho you ready And an old boy innocently says to Groucho, you ready Gilbert? Yeah. Innocently says to Groucho, and where was Chico at this time? Chico was out getting cunt. I just do what I'm told, Frank.

I'm sorry. Bill, are you having flashbacks? Hell yeah. We can cut any of this out, by'm told, Frank. I'm sorry. Bill, are you having flashbacks? Oh, yeah. We can cut any of this out, by the way, Bill. I mean, I heard, too, around that time, I remember, after he did his one-man show, they interviewed him for some, you know, a bunch of interviews. And he started, like, going, you know, well, George Burns tried to do a one-man show it was terrible and no one saw it and it was he he was constantly getting in trouble like that yeah he was unfortunately not quite himself at a certain point and there are some speculative things about him being

medicated uh you know look it's a whole other show about the later years of Groucho. Bill, Bill, you were at the house for a lot of those Groucho special evenings where you would have guests over, Elliot Gould and Bud Court and all of those people. Yep. What were your memories of those evenings? And also,

we're dying to know, what did you think of Aaron? Okay. I'd like to address one more Gummo story. Go ahead. And I would like to finally include Zeppo in this entire conversation. Try to work him in. Just like you did at Paramount.

The Fed's called Gummo and said, we're looking for your brother. Where is he? And Gummo said, why? Because Gummo was their personal manager. And they said, because the IRS is after him and he owes a lot of money and all this kind of thing. And Gummo said, well, you guys are not looking very hard because he's in only one of two places. He's either on a horse or a woman.

Oh, Chico. No, that was Zeppo. Oh, about Zeppo. And I'll tell you something. I love it. People who knew him, like Susan especially, Zeppo was more of a hardcore gambler than Chico.

Really? And as much of a womanizer. And the thing that Susan said that always stuck with me, as a gambler, Chico was in it for the fun and the game of it

and he didn't care if he won or lost. He just loved having a game. Zeppo would try to kill you with gambling and he wanted to take your money and he wanted to take it all. And he was just a violent gambler.

And this is like Susan talking about him. And he had a bit of a gangster streak. And there's a great story that when Chico got married for the second time in 1958, Zeppo was going to be his best man. But he was unable to attend because he was under federal subpoena in a racketeering case in Indianapolis. Wow. That's right. That's right.

He knows his stuff. What about those nights at grouchos, Bill? I mean, I've heard you say that he was never really happy unless he had an audience. Yeah, he never was. He was always a fish out of the water unless he had an audience. He was always a fish out of the water unless he had an audience. He was basically a pretty unhappy kind of guy toward the end because his whole life was a performing seal. He had to be on.

He had to do something. his girl Friday, Saturday and Sunday, she made sure, she would arrange these parties. I remember them being mostly on Thursday night where everybody would come up the hill to where he lived in Truesdale Estates to pay homage to Captain Spaulding or Dr. Hackenbush, neither of which were there anymore. But Groucho would be in his 80s then, and they would invite people for dinner and then a show. And it was, I just wish Salvador Dali had been there

because it was about as bizarre an experience. We had people making an effort to enjoy themselves rather than just enjoying themselves. Occasionally they did, but it was kind of a macabre thing to be a part of until Groucho got up and sang, Peezy Weezy is a Bull Bad Man. And then the party came to life. I played the piano there. That's when Groucho had me.

And we met piano there. That's when Groucho had me. And we met everybody there. I mean, there was always somebody showing up, three, four, five people. And it went on until 2 o'clock in the morning. And Groucho was... The only time Groucho was happy was when he was performing. Then he would go in at about 9 o'clock at night and have a picture with a couple of beautiful girls that would lie next to him in the bed. And then he would go off to sleep, and the party would just keep going on without him.

But truly for me, and I was only in my 30s at that time, I didn't really know what was going on in terms of how unique this evening would be or any of these evenings, because all I did was just observe people, and it only came to my mind how strange the whole thing was years later. It takes a little time for things to sink into me. And when you have a different perspective

and you look back and you say, oh my God, I was a numbnuts at that time. I didn't really, and in answer to your question about Erin Fleming, I would say she was a real piece of work. And I just went along with the program. And for whatever it's worth, she kept Groucho alive for seven years by appealing to his ego, by finding things for him to do, to get an Academy Award, this, that, she would throw these parties so that he could perform for a half hour. And she and he would sing Peezy Weezy. And then, of course, he would sing, you know, Father's Day or one of those songs.

But most importantly, she kept him going, for better or for worse. And believe me, it was worse. But the better part was that she appealed to who Groucho really thought he was. was that she appealed to who Groucho really thought he was. And she was able to control him like no other woman could. And that's why he had an extra seven, eight years with her. And in his life, yeah, she knew the buttons to push on Groucho. Does this show ever have profound observations? Never.

Okay, we'll try one. Yeah. It'd be a nice time for one. Yeah. At the age of 15, Groucho was being pushed to perform by a very ambitious woman who wanted to be in show business, Minnie. Minnie was living vicariously through 15-year-old Groucho. At the age of 85, he's in the exact same position with Aaron.

Fascinating. It's fascinating. That's a wonderful observation. I just made it up. Yeah. If not for Al Sheen, would Groucho have gone into show business anyway? Did he want it that badly? Was Minnie pushing him that hard?

You know, Zeppo did an interview with the BBC at the end of his life, and he said Groucho would have made it in show business because he wanted it on his own. The rest of us would have probably been dead or in jail. Interesting. So even it wasn't just Al Sheen's success. It wasn't just Manny's product. I think Al Sheen's success probably attracted Groucho. I think that's what kind of got him going on it.

What were you going to say, Gil? Oh, I was going to put you on the spot, Bill, as I do with all our guests. If you know the words, could you sing any of Peezy Weezy for us? Peezy Weezy, he's our man. Peezy Weezy's a bold bad man. He will catch you if he can. Peezy Weezy was a bold man.

I'm picturing Groucho chasing Dinah Shore. The lyrics are in the book. I know. Thank you. Bill, that was terrific. Bill, tell us a story from your book. It's about you performing in Allentown, Pennsylvania in 1985. It's a sweet story.

Oh, yeah. It was called Symphony Hall. I did a tour for Columbia Artists with a gal who played the harp, and we did all Dad's arrangements, and we had a book show, and that's how I first met Robert. He came down to see it when you were in your early 20s, I think. I was just a young Marsh Brothers fan. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I'm finishing the show, and we go back to the dressing room, and a young man comes up in his 30s, and he says, I just want you to know, Bill, that my dad was in the pit rehearsing Animal Crackers when they would try the show out before they went in. This was in 1929 or 1930, I can't remember. But he says, my dad actually performed with the Marx Brothers. It was his dad or his grandfather.

I think it was his dad. Anyway, and he said, even more so, your dad performed on this stage, and you are now dressing in the dressing room that he dressed in. I love that. All those years later. 66 years in. I love that. All those years later. 66 years later. I love that. Yeah.

That's great. And it goes to show you things come around. And that was an amazing moment in my life to find somebody. And what was it, Frederick Merick mary ellen i think it's allentown pennsylvania allentown story oh allentown allentown if i would never correct bill so i'm probably wrong of course no you are right it was it was i'll say she is which had its world premiere in allentown and it was 1923 got it got it we it. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Okay, I'm going to let you guys make the case for Zeppo because I know Josh is a big Zeppo fan and he's a monkey business fan.

Can I say something that Groucho said about Zeppo that I love? Go. He said, with Zeppo, our act was worth a million dollars. Without him, it was worth two million. That's like the old joke about how to make a million dollars in the restaurant business. But Josh, because you were sorry that you couldn't include Zeppo, and I heard you making the case for Zeppo, particularly in Animal Crackers. Yes, no, I...

There was something about them. There was something that he brought that not even the Zeppo impersonators, Alan Jones and Tony Martinin brought to it yeah i mean well so i you know at the very beginning of this of our talking i was saying how i really wanted to include him in some way yeah and um i ran out of time but i i i told i made a deal with the publisher that if we sold the amount of copies we needed in order to do a reprint, that I wanted five days to add in Zeppo and Mrs. Rittenhouse to the end of it somehow. Perfect. I know a part of my love for Zeppo's characters in the movies was because I grew up re-watching Animal Crackers, Coconuts, Duck Soup, particularly Monkey Business, when I was little. And I think that as a child, seeing Zeppo, I don't i you can't i don't like calling him the

straight man because he was really funny i mean he he he wasn't harpo funny he wasn't groucho funny he wasn't but he he made the comedy of that work and so therefore he was a part of that funny that was happening and but i feel like he was the one you could, you could relate to him as the, as the normal one, you know, and you know, when you're little,

you think of yourself as the normal one. And then when you get older, you think of yourself as the, the, the crazy one, you know, he had, he certainly had his moments.

I mean, the hunger dunker scene. Yeah. Zeppo has a surreal gag in duck soup when he comes in with his hat, The crazy one. He certainly had his moments. I mean, the hunger-dunger scene. Zeppo has a surreal gag in Duck Soup when he comes in with his hat. His hat's been sliced in half. It's great. There's a lot to be said for Zeppo. And his acting.

I mean, it's funny you mention that moment because we showed Duck Soup at my first book event in Austin last week. And there's these beautiful, pristine prints now where you see every little every little crease in the characters because of you know the the i highly recommend the blu-ray set of the paramounts right no the blu-rays they're amazing they're great but you can really see the the reactions and when when when zeppo turns around after the hat breaks and

he throws it's a great take he's he's it's It's a great take. It's like, it's perfect. I wish they gave him more funny to do. Let's just say that Zeppo was really a pro because he was on stage with them for a number of years

and he was good. And the thing that I think really is where Zeppo gets the short end of the stick is those Broadway musicals had to be cut down significantly

to be made into talking movies in the early part of talkies. And like, for example, Animal Crackers on the Broadway stage was two hours and 40 minutes long. And the first thing they do is cut out most of the musical numbers, which in many cases featured the four of them.

In Animal Crackers, you had the song, we're four of the three musketeers, which I stole for the title of my book. But Zeppo really lost a lot of his action as part of the team when those two plays were converted into movies. And he has more to do in the first original thing they wrote for the screen in Monkey Business,

mostly because Monkey Business is really an expanded version of Home Again, their great vaudeville show. All of that stage stuff really featured the four Marx brothers. And what I love about the Paramounts is it's the direct link to what they did on stage. Those scenes where they're the four, like the lobby thing in Coconuts when they're walking past each other over and over,

this is stuff that they really perfected from being on stage as a quartet for years. So I think that's the great loss when he's out of the act. And that's why those films are special to me. Zeppo delivered a line in Duck Soup that was funny because of this, what was happening, but the way he delivered it was just wonderful.

Hey, you're shooting your own man. There's something about the four of them that just, it's hard to put your finger on. They balance. It's a perfect balance. Somebody would occasionally write a very sublime, wonderful line for Zeppo in monkey business when he's trying to flirt with a girl. He goes, there's some mighty pretty country around here. Yeah.

They're in the middle of the ocean. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Well, also, I like to think that it gave Groucho somebody to play with because Harpo and Chico always had each other. And Groucho did not interact a ton with Harpo on screen. That's right. And I like the balance, as Josh said. I like the balance and the symmetry of the four of them.

And you'd think Zeppo, in a situation like that, would seem completely out of place, and yet he seems comfortable in the scenes. Like, you don't go, what's this guy doing there? I think the sad thing for Zeppo is he was much more talented than he was ever allowed to show in the March Brothers because he joined them to replace Gummo, who, by his own admission, was pretty terrible on stage.

And he had stage fright. He stammered. And Groucho spent many years covering for him when he would lose a line and stammer. It made Groucho a better ad-libber, having a cover for Gummo. But Zeppo comes into the act at a point where that fourth Marx brother doesn't really do all that much. Gummo, in the early shows, played Groucho's son.

Zeppo was young enough to really pull that off. Gummo's only two years younger than Groucho. Zeppo is 11 years younger than Groucho. So they really continued playing that bit where he was the son. Zeppo comes in when they're doing Home Again. So it kind of stunted his growth. Go ahead, Bill. I have a question to throw out to you guys.

Can you imagine Zeppo not in a regular suit but in something that the Marx Brothers created for themselves. Being in normal everyday clothing that represented something. Probably more

than Zeppo. I just wonder why they didn't ultimately dress him up. Is it just because they wanted him as the principal? Except for the last scene in Duck Soup. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Interesting point.

You're right. You're right about that. But can you imagine Zeppo being in anything other than a normal business? I think you're onto something. He sort of becomes a viewpoint character, becomes a normal guy. It's also interesting because Cary Grant cited Zeppo's style and his look as something that influenced him. Amazing.

Amazing. Bill, we know you've got to head out of here. Bill, you've got time for two quick questions? Sure. What's the capital of South Dakota? I think it's... General Grant is absolutely right. What's the capital of South Dakota? I think it's... General Grant is absolutely right. What was it like?

You were all of 12 years old, and you went on tour with Groucho and Uncle Chico. No, no, no, just Chico and Dad. Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry. I misspoke. But yes, Chico and your father. And one of your responsibilities was putting the knives that we talked about before all the cutlery up the sleeve oh i i became his prop man and uh i've been a part of those props all the way up until about two or three years ago when i divested

myself of the the responsibility of looking after, and I got rid of them. But I was always a part of the act. At least Dad made me always a part of the act. What did you hang on to? Any of the props? No, they were all at, the props are all at, well, I still have a few. I have a few at the house,

but most of them went to the Academy of Motion Pictures. Right. And so, but I had always felt, I mean, those props and that prop trunk and a lot of weird items have always come with me wherever I moved and wherever I went. It was my responsibility from the time I was 12. At least I felt it. And in a way, it was so good to get rid of them and put them in a place where maybe a bunch of people can look at them instead of the 12 people that come through my house every year. It's their responsibility now to make those things available for people.

Generous of you. Can I put you on the spot one more time? Can I make him sing again? Yep. Can I put you on the spot one more time? Can I make him sing again? Yep. And that's because your uncle, you know, who's in the team of Gallagher and Sheen,

can you sing, if you know the words, a little bit of their big song? Their big song, Mr. Gallagher or Mr. Sheen? Yes. I never really memorized the lyrics on that, but I do know the melody. It kind of escapes me. Yeah, absolutely, Mr. Gallagher, positively, Mr. Sheen. Sheen, yeah.

Mr. Gallagher. I have one quick story, a Groucho story, if you've got time. Sheen, yeah. Mr. Taylor. That was a big... I have one quick story, a Groucho story, if you've got time. Of course. Absolutely. He donated a lot of his letters to the USC Library

in Los Angeles, and they had a big luncheon for him, and Fenneman was there, and was the emcee and all, and he... for him and Fenneman was there and was the emcee and all. And he introduced Groucho and Groucho was to sing a song. And I forget, it was Show Me a Rose or something like that. And so, and I accompanied him. Rose or something like that. And so, and I accompanied him and about halfway through Show Me a Rose, he wound up in Omaha, Nebraska, which was another song. He just lapsed into

that. And, but I followed him and I got, I got through it somehow or another. And he and he finished strong with Father's Day, okay? But we didn't rehearse that. He just went off into space. So we're coming back to the table, and I'm sitting there, and Groucho comes over to me, and he looks down, he says, I couldn't have done it without you.

It was the first time he ever complimented me on anything. Wow. And I remember it so heavily. And we never had to have, you know, hey, Groucho, we're great. Or Bill, you really did this, or whatever it is. It was the only time, and it was about three or four weeks before he passed away. That's a sweet memory. Yeah, it is. And there was a warm spot in Groucho.

He didn't want to show it very often. in Groucho. He didn't want to show it very often. And I don't know whether he was the one that said every time a friend of mine has a success, I die a little. Well, that was Groucho. He was envious of people. But he had a warm spot somewhere that would come out now and then. And that was one of the moments for me me anyway. That's a nice story.

Tell us real quick, Bill, about his last performance with, I believe, Alan Sherman, the last time that... You mean Dad's? Yeah, Dad's last performance. Going back, well, my mother and I used to always stand in the wings, terrified, flop sweat, because he was getting up in years and all of that. And this was in Pasadena Civic Auditorium, and people like Steve Allen were there. Alan Sherman did the first half and Dad was to do the second half

and they closed out together. And at the end of the intermission after the first act, Alan came back and he noticed that there was a bottle of champagne on his couch and Dad said, this is for you because as of now, this is my last show. I'm retiring from the stage and the screen and everything else. And Alan went into tearful fit.

And Dad went out the second half of the show and was just wonderful. But my mom and I were standing in the wings and fearful that he was going to screw up his harp solo and forget what he was supposed to do. And it all worked out pretty well. And at the very end, Alan came out and said, you in the audience are experiencing a historic day. Harpo Marx has announced his retirement from the entertainment industry. And there was a big hush and all of that kind of thing. And he said, Harpo, would you come out and take a bow and so forth and so on. And so dad came out from the wings and went to the microphone, and instead of playing or whatever he did, he took the microphone and he said, For 13 long years I've toiled and labored for your happiness.

And he went on, that was his bar mitzvah speech. went on, that was his bar mitzvah speech. And concluding with it gives me great feeling to know that you folks have

with your keenness and perspicacity, have recognized true talent and monumental megalomania. I thank you. Sweet. What a great... And then he said, hey, this talking racket ain't bad.

I should have stayed with it, you know. And the audience went crazy. That must have been two or three minutes. And that's a long time. Oh, to be in that audience that night. What a gift. What a gift. Let's get some plugs in here, guys.

Bill, the website, harposplace.com. Yep. Great stuff there. And it was conceived and made possible by a gentleman who is, I would have to say I could be almost his grandfather. His name is Matt Hickey, and he did work like this, and he was a huge Marx Brothers fan and a very close friend of Robert Bader's. And he did the design and put in all the stuff. I'm so proud of that particular website.

It's called harposplace.com. That's great. That's all it is. It's great. Thank you, Ed. It's a wonderful, wonderful primer for anybody that's interested in Dad, his family life, his musicianship, his paintings are in there, and there's a whole segment in there

where I open up his prop trunk and I demonstrate a lot of the things that are there. So it's well worth a good look. And we're going to plug your book, which people can still get, Son of Harpo Speaks. It's on Amazon. And full of great stories, including your own personal stories and your own personal

journey, and your journey to discover the circumstances of your adoption, which was very touching. Thank you. Yeah, there are two separate stories that I tried to put together in some way. They were different chronologically. It didn't happen at the same time.

But it's a Hollywood story. It's bizarre. Yeah. The real joshfrank.com. And the book. Gilbert? Ah. Oh, Christ.

You woke him up. Let me see if I can get it right this time. Go for it. Giraffes on horseback salad. Josh Frank. And actually, the website for the book has its own site, which is horsebacksaladbook.com. And it's got a lot of extras and cool stuff.

And the most interesting aspect, actually, I feel, is that along with trying to really give people as close to the full movie experience as they could possibly have um we actually recorded the songs that are in the book so it's a marks brothers movie there has to be songs it's ambitious you can actually i have a friend who lives in japan and i asked him if he'd compose these songs and i thought he was just going to do it on a little four track like a 1980s four track with an audio cassette and send me a little piano he put together a 30 person orchestra 20 person chorus recorded all these songs and

they're actually available for free if you buy the book on the book's website for the next month. Okay. An ambitious undertaking, this book. And then some. And you guys are going to be doing an event this week.

This will post well after that. Yeah, we can't really. We'll plug it retrospectively. Well, we'll plug it on social media, but we might have it up in time for the event you're doing with Bill in April in California. I got to tell you, I'm so excited that I get to be with Bill and Robert in Rancho Mirage, where Harpo lived and where Bill now lives,

and that I get to spend a day with them presenting the book and stories about the Marx Brothers. And that's going to be April 26th. Okay. And this masterpiece. Four of the three Marx Brothers. No. Try it again. Four of the three.

I fucked it up. I'm fucking, see, I knew it. Did you get any sleep last night? See, I. The last time I was here, it took about three takes to get the title. I thought when I had the horseback salad... You were on a roll. Oh, I'm back.

We'll try it again. See, now I know what Groucho felt like toward the end. You know, you're no longer just doing Old Man Groucho. You're becoming Old Man Groucho. Poor of you. Poor of you. He did some public speaking lessons from my dad. Perfect, Bill.

They're phoning in the insults now. Fantastic tome written by the great and obsessive Robert S. Bader, which you can get. Four of the three musketeers, the Marx Brothers on stage. Yes. Get all three of these books. There's a website. There's a website.

Hit me. MarxBrothers.net. It's all about the book. There's stuff in the website that didn't fit into the book because as you can see, Frank, Frank has to lift the book carefully. It's a little on the heavy side.

I will tell you the research, the years of your life that you put into that book, Frank has to lift the book carefully. It's a little on the heavy side. I will tell you the research, the years of your life that you put into that book, you have my admiration. Both of you do. I'll say this. I'm glad Bill mentioned Matt Hickey. He passed away a few years ago.

He's a great, great guy. And my early days of writing that book, he really helped me in ways that I can never even explain because when I was afraid the book was going to be too long and I've got too much about 1914 he would say no we need a whole book about 1914 so Matt was the greatest you know

supporter of this project more Marx Brothers books in the work more I've got a couple of things I'm cooking up I hope to uh well I'm working on the paperback of this book which is going to hopefully come out later this year it's going to have some revisions in the stage chronology because the obsession did not stop with the publication of the book. I assure you there has been a discovery here and there. Good. More projects with Mr. Cavett? Yeah, we've got a couple of cool things.

I'm actually showing this week a rough cut of something we're working on about Groucho. Okay. So I will just say that the book for The Three Musketeers has gotten a really lovely reaction, a lot of which came from my first appearance on this show. I got a lot of mail. There's a website, marchbrothers.net, which has an email contact for me. I tend to answer the least insane letters, but I've gotten some really insane stuff from that email contact thing. But there are a lot of crazy Marx Brothers fans out there.

There must be something that makes people obsess about the Marx Brothers. Well, the episode you did, people ate up with a spoon. So they're going to love this one too, I'm sure. And one last question, if you guys can all do this in about 30 seconds. Possible? We've talked about favorite movies. Pick one scene from a Marx Brothers picture. Bill, if you want to pick the same one from Go West, you can, or you can pick a different

one, but we'll do Bill last. So go ahead, Robert. Sweet Adeline, Monkey Business. Okay, great one. Josh. Harper doing the puppet scene in Monkey Business. I love it. I am going to pick either the scene in Thelma Todd's apartment in Horse Feathers where Groucho breaks the fourth wall or the speakeasy scene.

Hey, you took two. Okay. I can't decide. But I'm taking the mirror scene for my second look. Speakeasy, well, the courtroom scene in Duck Suit. Ah, it's magnificent. Bill? the 16th century theme of dad playing the harp in front of all the mirrors with the cello.

And it was in the big store. The big store. Yeah. That is an amazing piece of film. It is a great one. When Harpo looks over in the mirror and sees Harpo playing the cello, I lose it. Gentlemen, this was a treat. We don't realize, but we didn't have those kind of, you know, the fancy kind of stuff that they can do now with computers and all. That was a really tricky scene, and it was brought off beautifully.

I like everybody's choices. Yeah. Wonderful. Bill, this was great. We thank you for taking the time to do this, and we know you got a gig, and you're spread thin, and we appreciate this greatly. And I'm very grateful for having the gig.

And he doesn't mean this one. Thank you, Bill. You were well worth the wait, Bill. Thank you, Josh. Thank you, Robert. We should do this every month. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, guys. Gil, will you take us out?

Yep. What? Gil's going to take us out. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's... I must be going. I cannot stay. I came to say... I must be going.

I'm glad I came, but just the same. Just the same. I must be going. I'll stay a week or two. Maybe the summer through. But I am telling you. I am telling you. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going.

I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. I must be going. Thank you, boys. This was special. Thank you. Bye-bye. Ketika kita berada di kota, kita akan berjalan ke kota yang terbaik. Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok I love you.