Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 264. Chip Kidd

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

Award-winning designer, author and pop culture historian Chip Kidd joins Gilbert and Frank for a lively (and educational!) conversation about memorable movie posters, Jewish comic book creators, the��convoluted history of Captain Marvel and the 80th anniversary of the Caped Crusader. Also, King Kong goes to Japan, Andrew Wyeth inspires Charles M. Schulz, Gilbert plays a Superman villain and Chip designs the iconic "Jurassic Park" logo. PLUS: Tobor the 8th Man! Batman vs. Godzilla! In praise of Alex Ross! The strange death of Jack Cole! And Saul Bass directs the "Psycho" shower scene! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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A little Gilbert Goffrey. Amazing. Enormous, throbbing. Colossal. Colossal. Podcast. Podcast. I thought we were going to get a sandwich. I thought we were going to get a grinder.

Give it up for Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. This is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is here to join us in discussing and celebrating the 80th anniversary of the iconic American character known as Batman. He's one of the most knowledgeable sources on the subject since he's been obsessed with the Caped Crusader since he was all of two years old

and has authored and co-authored several books on the topic including Batman Animated, Batman Collected, and Batmanga. That's easy for you to say. Batmanga. Batmanga. Batmanga.

The secret history of Batman in Japan, as well as graphic novel Batman Death by Design. He's also an expert on other comic strips and comic book culture. And the writer, co-writer, or designer of the books, Shazam! The Golden Age of the World's Mightiest Mortal, Mythology, the DC Comics art of Alex Ross, Jack Cole, and Plastic Man stretch to their limits. And only what's necessary, Charles M. Schultz. The art of peanuts. And if all that isn't enough to keep him off the street,

he's also an award-winning graphic designer, undeniably the most successful admitted book cover Admired Admired Also admitted I gave up trying at the beginning He's also the most admired book cover designer in the world, producing memorable images for bestsellers by Michael Crichton, Cormac McCarthy,

James Elroy, Dean Kuntz, Oliver Sacks, David Sedaris, John Updike, and even Catherine Hepburn, just to name a few. You know the famous Jurassic Park dinosaur logo that you see all over the world? He came up with that. He also designed movie posters, CD cover art, and promotional art for performers like The Police and Paul Simon. And in his spare time, he wrote two novels on the New York Times bestseller list, The Cheese Monkeys and The Learners. Please welcome to the podcast an artist of too many talents to list

and a man who still has the Robin the Boy Wonder costume his mom made for him back in 1964. The Dark Knight of Design, Chip Kidd. Wow. That's all. We don't have time for this.

Yeah, I was going to say. All right, so we're done. We're done. All right. Do I have the year right on that costume? Was it 66? Actually, the costume itself would have been 68. Oh, God.

I was born in 64. I'm way off. But I mean, what are you going to do? Yeah. It's just that you still have it. I do. It's a cool thing. I do. It's a cool thing. I do.

Now, here's something. I used to be a big fan of going to, when people still read newspapers, there would be an entertainment section in each paper that would have movie posters. You don't find that in papers. Oh, you mean the movie ads? Yeah, the movie ads. I don't find that in people oh you mean the movie ads yeah the movie ads i don't find movie ads anymore and i remember i was always more attracted and fascinated to the simple ads when it had too much going on yes i totally agree yeah too many people in parachutes and guns and dancing and i thought they're trying way too hard and like a poster like the godfather which was a hand

holding marionette strings i thought now see that's something that i'm interested in. Yes, and stolen from the book cover. Yes. And when I was way back in 1990, when we got the manuscript for Jurassic Park at work, I worked for Alfred A. Knopf, it was like my day job, and I'll be there 33 years in October. Wow, congrats. My boss, Sonny Mehta, who is still my boss, he's an amazing editor-in-chief, he kept saying, now remember Jaws. Remember Jaws. Like, you know,

because that was taken from the book cover too. Sure, sure. And we knew that Spielberg had bought this to make a movie. That's all we knew. This is before, while I'm doing the book cover. And he's like, you know, something that iconic. Shark and the waterline and the girl, title. Like, yes, we need to do.

And I remember thinking there is no way that I will ever, ever be able to come up with something like that. That would be that memorable for this. But of course I didn't say that, I just said okay, sure. But, you know, simple, Jaws. It's perfect. Yeah, and that Godfather, that's an iconic image. Sure. It's one you

picture. Absolutely. Yeah. I saw an article, and you picked Jaws as one of your all-time was it favorite book covers was a piece in time i think yeah yeah sure yeah and and and of course i have to ask you jurassic park trillions of dollars they made about 10 of them this is charlie kotchman question yeah and and it's being shown all over the world. Each country. In India, it's made a trillion dollars. So what are you doing with all that?

In countries that don't have movies. Oh, my God. The royalty money must drive you crazy. Well, you can see how I'm dressed. I mean, come on. No, I forget how old I was. I was probably 25, 26, and I did that as part of my day job. But the cool thing to this day about being a book cover designer as opposed to other forms of graphic design is that your name as the designer goes on the flap. It either goes on the flap or the back

cover. Okay. And so I had done this image and made the book jacket. And again, this is back of the day before cell phones or the internet or anything. So my phone rings and it's like, hi, I'm a big scary lawyer from Universal Pictures. Can I speak with somebody named Chip Kidd, please? I'm like, yeah, that's me. Well, we're making this movie and we think that we might want to buy the rights to the image in case maybe we want to use it. And even back then I knew. want to use it.

And even back then, I knew. I'm like, okay, let me transfer you to our big scary lawyers and you all can sort of hash it out. And they did.

But, I mean, they paid a pittance for it. And, you know, that was kind of it. You've said that's going to be, what,

on your gravestone or in your obituary? Well, it's not going to be on my gravestone. On your obituary. If I can help it. You've said that's going to be what, on your gravestone or in your obituary? Well, it's not going to be on my gravestone. On your obituary. If I can help it. I won't be designing my gravestone,

so whoever does that... A gravestone with a T-Rex chomp. Yeah, like chomp. I don't know why I said gravestone. I said that would be the first line of my obituary. That's what I meant. Unless something else comes along. It would look pretty

damn cool on a gravestone though. Yeah. So had you gotten a penny of the royalties you could have... Of the royalties?

No. My boss, again, Sonny Mata, was a real gent and he basically, the money that they, that Universal paid,

he basically turned it over to me, which was very sweet. And he didn't have to do that. And at the time, it was like, wow, well, that's kind of cool. It's not a lot. But the thing that really kind of stung is that I'm not mentioned in the credits at all. Universal can't officially acknowledge that but in on every copy of every book even if it's a movie tie-in book it has my name on the copy

and see there too is a case of it's a simple design it's a it's a skeleton of a t-rex and i could imagine them going oh can we have one where every dinosaur is in the poster? Right, yeah. Yeah, but they didn't. They didn't. And again, I did the drawing of the dinosaur. It was then adapted for that logo. The background of the cover that I did was white

and then they changed it to red and then they put that, frankly, awful lettering with it. But what was really interesting to me is they didn't alter the drawing at all. Interesting. Whereas Jaws, if you see the original, the composition is the same. But the drawing and the colors are completely different for the movie. And speaking of movie design, I mean, you've dabbled in it. You've done a couple.

Dabbled, yeah. You did the Harrison Ford movie and the Robert Downey movie, but it's not really your thing. It's a totally different challenge than designing. Oh, I mean, absolutely. Every now and then, some clever art director for Paramount or something like that was like, hey, let's get this guy

to do it. And sometimes it works out and sometimes it's just a total disaster. But it always pays well. Okay, now here's a strange question and I just want you to say yes. Yes. Okay. Did Jews create

the superheroes? Of course they did. Thank you. Okay. Gee, that wasn't too hard. And all the good Christmas music, too. Yeah, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Club. Good night.

They started with the Gollum. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very good. Excellent. Excellent. Right. And they just kind of kept going. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very good. Excellent. Excellent. Right.

And they just kind of kept going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because the Gollum was paved the way for not just superheroes, but also Frankenstein. Sure. Yes. Yes.

But I mean, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, excuse me. Sure. They were extremely circumcised. And. And Stanley Lieber yeah and Jack Kirby

what I noticed too in in Hebrew names there's like an L at the end of a lot of the names okay

yeah and like Jor-El and Kal-El and so there are names that end with the L. He's put a lot of thought into this, Jim. Yes. Yeah.

And I think with a lot of, like, Superman, secretly they were probably saying, you know, that Clark Kent is a nebbishy little Jew, but he turns into this powerful goyim. Yes, exactly. Would you like to belong to Temple Kal-El? Does that make you happy? If only they would have him.

Yeah, I forgot Jack Kirby's real name too, but it's Jacob... They're all Jewish fellows. Kirbystein. Yeah, there was something. They're all Jewish guys. Bob Kane. Yeah. Kainowitz. Yeah, yeah was something. They're all Jewish guys. Bob Kane. Yeah. Kane-a-witch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jerry Robinson co-created the Joker and Robin. His name came from Robinson. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Let's talk about Batman and your childhood obsession, since we alluded to you still having the Robin costume. Which is in the book. Which is in Batman Collected.

Yes. Then my mom made those costumes for us from scratch. This is great. I was showing this to Gilbert. This is you and your older brother. That's my older brother and that's Bat-Mom in the middle. Those costumes your mom made? She did. They're pretty impressive. Yeah, she was a great

seamstress. When we were really little yeah she was a great uh great seamstress and when we were really little she made a lot of our clothes and you still have that you still have that exact one because there's that picture of you on your website yes i have the cape which you see there that's the batman cape but i have the robin i have the robin tunic because you know we used to we run around in those things for you the time. Oh, here's a question I have to ask. 99% of superheroes have capes.

What purpose does the cape serve? Well, like, how geeky do you want to get? As geeky as you can stand. And, of course, the wonderful, incredible, you know incredible Edna Mode. No capes.

Yes. Very fun. I think the idea was to literally cloak yourself, you know, in Batman's case anyway. You wanted to hide in the shadows. Sure. And that would sort of help. Sure, sure, sure. And that would sort of help.

Sure, sure, sure. And I think it also, there's a tradition out of certain kinds of circus wear. Oh. That, you know, especially like, because I know with Captain Marvel, they based it on like Russian opera stars from the turn of the century who would have these weird little half capes that they'd wear. I'm fascinated that was designed to look like fred mcmurray yeah yeah that's a cool thing that's actually come up on this show before yeah by the way we're referring with these superhero costumes we're referring to chip's great book uh batman collected which you guys have to get well and it's totally out of print is it out of print am i i'm plugging a book that's out of print? You could go on eBay. Find it. Find it.

You must find it. But the obsession began at a very early age for you. Yes, it did. I told you in email we had Adam and Bert. Both were here. Well, and if you page through that, the only image that we shot for that book that's arguably not an inanimate object is Adam. Oh, cool. There it is. And again, that was in the summer

of 1995. Wow, look at that. So Photoshop was new then, but we put in the ears on the shadow in Photoshop. Isn't that cool? And we had two cat women, Julie Newmar and Lee Merriweather.

Oh, man. Adam paid Gilbert a compliment that he's still living off of. You want to tell Chip what he said? Adam West told me that I would have made a great penguin. Oh, I can. Yeah, but I mean, you'd have to like put on about 200 pounds. I mean, I guess I can do anything with a fat suit.

Yeah, no. Or a CGI. You're a little skinny. Yeah, no, you would have been great. You can do anything. You could have played the shark in Jaws. Yeah. So you grew up in rural Pennsylvania.

I grew up in southeastern Pennsylvania in a town called Redding. Yes. And, um... There was a Philly farm team there for years. There's a Philly farm team there. They are still there. I hate sports because I'm gay. But you knew that.

I did know that. I got dragged to those fucking games, you know. But, um, there's like five me... Barring me, there's like five interesting people from Reading. The writer John Updike. Wow. The poet Wallace Stevens. The artist Keith Haring. There's a playwright named Douglas Carter Bean who has a ton of stuff on Broadway.

I know who he is. And then some skank named Taylor Swift. Those are the fives. Those are the fives. Plus Chip Kidd. And then me. Right. Not bad.

I'm not in their league. It's an eclectic group. Not in their league. Now, since I think we all, all of us, the three of us here, all watch the same stuff on TV, us here all watch the same stuff on TV. You must have watched those truly

horrible Marvel cartoons. Right, yeah. Oh, God. Those barely moved. You had to bring those up. Yes, yes. They barely moved. They would hold a picture and shake it. Or they'd zoom in and zoom out. Yeah, and only the mouths moved because, you know,

they just sort of had to a little bit. The theme songs were cool. The theme songs were great. Yeah. Nobody loves the Hulk. That's it. I'm going to send you a video of the guy who composed the theme songs

who's still around. Wow. Yeah, I remember. Here's Bruce Banner. Turns into the Hulk. That's it. That's it. But those were so awful.

They were. Yeah. They'd shake pictures, zoom in and out on the still picture, and that was the movement. But when you're a kid, you're willing to accept so much. What do you care? Because I remember, not with those so much, but I mean, I watched everything and was in love with everything. But Speed Racer? Sure.

And then, I don't know, know 20 years later i watched a couple speed racer cartoons i'm like this animation is pathetic i know they don't hold up yes i felt that way about the spider-man series from the 60s remember that one yeah and i was as a kid i adored it i went back and looked at it i bought them on dvd and i said oh my god any tv animation back then it's just horrible cheap and the. And the song was, when Captain America swings his mighty sword. Oh, yeah, sure. You watch

those? Oh, sure. I was a real TV kid. I mean, Gilbert, I know you're much older than me, but in my generation, I was also, both my, once I started going to elementary school,

both my parents were working, so I was one of the original latchkey kids. So I would let myself in and just watch TV from like, you know, three o'clock to six o'clock till they got home and just watched everything,

all that crap. Did you have a 4.30 movie there in Pennsylvania? We had one here. I'm thinking Tri-State. Well, we had Dr. Shock. Oh, so you had like a shock theater. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We had Zachary. Out of Philly. Yeah, we had Zachary. Yeah. Now, you must have watched the Bowery Boys, too. I just, I tried.

must have watched the bowery boys too i just i tried i mean you know again back back then you know cable barely existed and so there wasn't a whole lot to choose from and every now and then it's like it's a rainy saturday afternoon bowery boys movie all right i'll try it i i couldn't relate i had absolutely no idea what they were doing or why why are you little rascals they were on and now that i got yeah okay loved right right loved and all those crazy contraptions they made that's right yeah and the the very weird surreal abedin costello show was also in syndication yes when we were kids which is which is strange to watch to this day. It's like they're movies, I feel, with the exception of Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Most of the movies are like good in part, but I'm fast. The TV show is an acid dream.

Yeah. Strangely depressing. Of Abbott and Costello. Yeah. Yeah. It's very weird. It's dark. Again, quite seriously, it was either before my time or they weren't running it.

Oh, they didn't run it. Because I just watched the movies. And when Joe Besser would show up as Stinky, that would scare me as a kid. I would get scared. The inspiration for Newman on Seinfeld was Joe Besser's Stinky. But I know something you did watch was a lot of Japanese cartoons. Yes. And I know I have a list here.

I know you were into Tobor the Ape Man, which, believe it or not, we've discussed on this podcast. Wow. With who? I don't know. It's come up. We do little episodes on Thursdays, just the two of us. And we just riff on anything off the wall or just stuff we remember. Like Gigantor was another one.

Oh, yeah. Japanese. Now, was that? I talk over the guests. I hope you don't mind. You're only a guest trying to talk. But before I forget, Gigantor the Teenage Robot. Space Age.

Is at your command. Yeah. Close. Yeah. Damn close. Call Tobor the eighth man. Oh, yes. Called faster than a rocket, quicker than a jet. Call the mighty Tobor.

He's the one to get. Call Tobor the eighth man. Quick get called Tobor, the eighth man. Quick, call Tobor, the body ain't Tobor, man. There's a prehistoric monster who came from outer space Created by the Martians to destroy the human race The FBI is helpless, it's 20 stories tall

What can we do, who can we call? Call the war, create mass Call the war, create mass Faster 8th Man is faster than a rocket. He's faster than a jet. He's a mighty robot. He's the one to get it. Calls the war. The 8th Man.

Quick calls the war. The mighty and robot of them all. Gilbert, you've met your match. Yes! But the really, really cool thing was the book I eventually did on Batman in Japan, which by the way, the correct pronunciation is

Bamanga. Bamanga. Gil, you want to try that again? Yeah. Bamanga. Really, really quick. The guy in Japan who drew Batman for the Japanese audience for like a year and a half, 66, 67, was named Jiro Kawada, creator of Eighth Man. Very cool.

Okay. Here's something that drives me crazy because I have the habit of putting stuff up on the internet, which I never should. because I have the habit of putting stuff up on the internet, which I never should. But I once referred, if I ever referred to a cartoon out of Japan as a cartoon, people go out of their minds.

Just because you're associated with Japan now? No, no. Because they don't say anime. Yeah. Oh, I see. Anime. Anime. What the fuck Japan now? No, no. No, because they don't say anime. Yeah. Oh, I see. Anime. What the fuck is that? Yeah, no. Anime didn't really exist until like Battle of the Planets or something much, much later.

Much, much later. And what's the difference between anime and like the Flintstones? Nothing. I mean, one's American and one's Japanese. It's like saying, what's the difference between eat,

eat in, in, in English and manja, manja in Italy. I thought he was going to pronounce it

bad manja. Right, yeah. Yeah. It's an affectation. Just, just tell whoever it is to calm down. I thought you were going to tell me

the Japanese were still giving you shit from your tsunami tweet. You watch Astro Boy, Marine Boy? Oh my God, Marine Boy. She didn't wear a shirt. That mermaid. Yes, they had to very creatively keep her hair sort of flowing in front of them.

Now, I haven't seen this latest, The Avengers. I don't even know the fucking name of it. Endgame. Endgame, son. Now, isn't one of the superheroes that used to be a man, isn't marvel a woman now well we could do an entire week's worth of shows just about that but yeah she's a woman she's a woman now because you know captain marvel was that this is so geeky and your fans probably won't be into no they are believe me oh you haven't met our fan base the original Captain Marvel this person I'm pointing out

that book is in print by the way Shazam was called Captain Marvel was published by Fawcett comics in the 40s 50s and was at its peak more popular than Superman

the people who owned Superman sued Fawcett back and forth for years and years and years. You're infringing on our copyright. Into the mid-1950s, at which point Fawcett finally gave up because people weren't really buying that many comics anymore. Like, not three million issues a month.

So then, fast forward marvel comics buys up the name captain marvel in the late 60s and it initially and so they now they're now marvel comics is publishing captain marvel and it's a guy the old green and white suit yeah yeah and dc buys the rights to to this character but they have to technically call it shazam because they don't legally have the rights to the word captain marvel and you got it kill oh yeah that's somewhere along the line he became a woman but this crazy stupid shazam movie came out a month ago and you know anyway and but but but then but the but marvel then in the 70s i think turned the character captain marvel into a woman and did a lot of the superhero comic books stem from the early pulp fiction detective uh i would say so you know you had the shadow um the shadow and doc savage which

were quote the pulps which were more prose stories that that had you know solitary illustrations scattered throughout but they were not what we would call sequential imagery um panels with pictures and words that a to B to C to D to whatever. They didn't tell stories that way. They told stories differently. And then, of course, there was the radio. I'll have to learn to pronounce sequential imagery.

While you're working on Batmanga. Yes. Well, you know, I told you in the email, he wrote a comic. He wrote a Superboy comic. Yeah, yeah. And you said they came to him. And I was thrilled when you were Mr. Mix-It-Click-Click. Yeah.

Although in the comic book, I was Nick-Nack, who I was also in two or three episodes of the Superboy series. Yeah, the syndicated Superboy series. Animated. Yeah. No, that was live action. Yeah no that was live action yeah that was live action live action yeah okay i forget who the guy who played him but yeah it was a live action show and i was in about two or three as knickknack master of toys uh-huh and then that's who I did in the comic book. And then I was in a bunch of different things as Mrs. Piglick. Yeah, I loved that.

I did a whole thing that you read the book Batman Animated. I did with Bruce Timm and Paul Dini. And that was right before they were going to do Superman, I think. That was a good Superman series. It was. Yeah. Well, those guys are great. Yeah, they're great talents.

They're really amazing. I was Miss Jess Picklick in the one where Tim Daly was Superman. Mm-hmm. And then I did it in some other thing, and I never know what the name of it was. How did they tell you to say his name? With me, it was Mischief Pickling.

Because as kids, we never knew. Yeah, there's been a trillion. Say it however you want. Did you know Michael J. Pollard played him on the Superboy series? Oh! Which I found today while researching your character. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant

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A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. But let's talk about Batman.

Let's talk about Batman 66. Wait. Michael J. Pollard replaced me in the awful Gene Wilder, Richard Pryor comedy, Another You. There you go. He was my replacement, Michael J. Pollard. You remember this actor? I know the name. You'd know him if we showed him to you.

In a second. Yeah. He's in Bonnie and Clyde. He had like a crazed baby face. That's my favorite kind. Cherubic actor. So you're a latch kid kid.

That's not easy to say. And you're watching all this stuff. You're watching Japanese cartoons. You're watching Speed Racer. Do you remember Kimba the White Lion? Oh my god, yes. And my god, which was ripped off to become the Lion King, by the way. That's correct.

Wow, now you're... How about which was ripped off to become the Lion King, by the way. That's correct. I mean, holy. Wow, now you're... Yeah. Yeah. How about the animated King Kong, which was also Japanese? You know what? There you got me. Yeah, I'll send it to you. There you got me.

And Ultraman, we were talking about, which he doesn't remember. Oh, God. That was great. That was cool. That was very cool. Beta capsule. Yep. Yep. Remember Ultraman, huh, Gil?

Here's a movie that they used to show on TV a lot that was like a joint American-Japanese effort called The Manster. Do you know this one? No. We like to stump our guests. No, well, I'm stumped. Although it sounds like somebody I used to date.

Who's in The Manster? Refresh me. Well, it's an American is the lead. And he's in Japan. And something, whatever, radiation, or he gets bitten by a monster, whatever. And he becomes this two-headed creature. And there's a great scene where he looks at himself in the mirror, pulls his shirt open, and there's an eye growing out of his shoulder. We got one for you, Chip.

Well, you had me at two-headed. Hilarious. By the way, I sent him the clip of you running a muck in the Japanese toy store which is just

fantastic you are really good we went deep you did you're shocked at how half of this stuff isn't even licensed

and it's off model and not legit really funny that was fun I love funny. That was fun. I love Japan. I love going there. I love going to that place, which is called Nakano Broadway. Yeah.

Crazy. Crazy. Yeah. And I like how you specify. You don't want to be tempted from stuff from the 70s because you're a purist and you just want to collect 60s stuff. I admire that. 60s stuff. I admire that. And you said that in Japan, they

love the American Superman series with George Reeves. Yes. Emperor Hirohito's favorite show. That's fascinating. And that's true. And this begins, he fights for the American way.

I know. I think there was a very strange hail the conquering hero thing going on and quite seriously with God is my witness I want to do the super manga book because that would really be amazing

because the guy the guy who drew an animated speed racer did a four part Superman who drew an animated Speed Racer did a four part Superman comic book for Japan in the late 50s with

Bizarro and it's amazing. It's beautiful. Oh and did the creators of Superman get fucked as bad as it sounds like they did. Worse. Yeah.

That's a sad story. It's a very sad story. I mean, you know, what happened to me with Jurassic Park is like nothing compared to what happened

with them. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sad story. It's a very sad story. Yeah. What is the full... I mean,

they were two animators. Well, they were cartoonists. Seriously, they were two animators. Well, they were cartoonists. Seriously, they were two Jewish kids in Cleveland. In the 1930s, they were obsessed with this new thing called science fiction. And they made zines. They made zines. And their first concept for this thing called the Superman is that he was a villain.

He was like this big, all-powerful villain. And all of this is well-documented. But then they decided, no, let's make him into a hero. They figured out the costume, etc., etc. And they went to every publisher to try and sell the idea. And nobody was interested. And finally, this guy at National Periodical Publications said, all right,

and I'm throwing this out there, but okay, we'll buy the idea from you for 300 bucks. But it was quite clear, like, okay, but we'll own it. You guys will write and draw it, but we own it. And they were, frankly, they were so thrilled.

They were kids. They were kids. They weren't even 20 yet. And they were so excited that they were like, yay, let's do it. And for a while, it was kind of great because it took off immediately and they were getting a steady, decent wage.

But it just kept getting, but they were, and this is where the whole concept of what we call work for hire in the comic book industry started. So you, you had that, the flip side of that would be Walt Disney, who always owned everything on, who always owned everything. And again, Disney is different than comic books. But yeah, so as it went on, Siegel and Schuster, they would try to sue to get the rights back and they didn't have a...

It was a lifelong battle. It was a lifelong battle and they didn't have a legal leg to stand on. And finally, like in the 70s, DC paid them like $100,000. I think when the Donner movie came out, they were publicly shamed. They were publicly shamed

and they paid them like $100,000. But at that point, they were near death. It's a heartbreaking tale. It's very heartbreaking. One of them went blind in this later year. Yeah, I think the artist, you know, sadly and ironically enough.

Well, thanks for bringing the show down, Gil. Yeah, yeah. I'm just a laugh riot. I'm a laugh riot. Just so let's talk about you just sort of discovering. By the way, one question about Superman being big in Japan. There were really two versions of that Superman series. There was the noirish black and white version,

the first version, and then when it went color, it got light and campy. The Adventures of Superman. That's interesting. Somebody posted this on Facebook today. It's really kind of two different shows. Interesting. Because that Superman vs. the Mole Men, that movie, is very creepy.

And very dark. And there's that episode where they keep hearing somebody in the background that they can't find screaming, Help me, I'm drowning. Help me. That, as a kid, that kept me awake at night. And then at the end, spoiler alert,'s a parrot yep that learned to say that yep and it flies in at the end it says help me i'm drowning help me i was like whoa that is so

it is it is creepy when you go but were you a twilight zone guy too you watch the twilight zone sort of yeah yeah on the creepy scale now do you remember that when superman in the series was responsible for someone's death oh you mean when he put the the couple on the mountaintop when they found out his secret identity no yeah but but but he didn't kill them. They fell trying to escape. They fell to their death trying to get down the mountain. Yeah, he put them on a mountaintop. Yeah.

But it's basically like putting a baby on a ledge. I didn't throw the baby out the window. There was a couple that discovers, a married couple that discover his secret identity. I don't remember this at all. And he has to put them out of circulation. He has to put them away from society. So he flies them to this remote mountaintop, and he says, I'll be right back with food and clothing,

and he's going to make lodging for them. While he's gone, they say, let's get out of here. And they try to make their way down the mountain, and they both fall to their deaths. Very disturbing. That is disturbing. Because you're going, Superman, kill those people. This bothers you all these years later.

Yes. Oh, here's something. I don't care how fucking moral the superheroes are supposed to be. Wouldn't one of the superheroes have killed Hitler? Oh, well, that's been going on forever. In fact, they did a story like, all right, this is how Superman would solve World War II. And he goes and he just plucks Hitler up and he plucks Stalin and Mussolini

and just hauls him before a world court and that's kind of the end. It was this wish fulfillment thing. But they, I mean, they went there. Yeah. Well, he's got, they went there. Yeah. Well, he's got a theory that if you have Superman in the Justice League, what is your theory? That you don't need anybody else?

Superman, he flies. He's bulletproof. He shoots lasers out of his eyes. He can do everything. Super strength. What the fuck do you need the other superheroes? Why do you need Green Arrow, for instance? Yes, yes.

To sell more comics. Because he's hot. I mean, again, I don't know how geeky you want to get. As much as you can. We're going to change the name of the show.

One of Superman's, I mean, there's Kryptonite, but then there's also magic. That's a weakness for him. Ah, yes. And, there's kryptonite, but then there's also magic. He is, that's a weakness for him. Ah, yes. And if there's any kind of what we call magic involved, he's powerless against that. And there's, you know, and believe me, the writers of Justice League over the years used to have to think up all these crazy scenarios for all of them together and doing this and doing that. scenarios for all all of them together and doing this and doing that and there there was a really interesting one at one point where if you think about it the core justice league there's only two

members who don't actually have superpowers batman's one of them and green and green arrow is the other right all the others have some kind of strange super enhancement. And there's some predicament where this wizard or whoever creates some sort of thing, and I'm paraphrasing here, and zaps all the members that actually have superpowers with some sort of ray.

And it was a brilliant idea. Like the only two members that could do anything to save them were the ones that didn't have superpowers. So, you know, it's a good logical question for something that bears no logic. See, all these things are haunting you, Gilbert. He's putting them to rest.

It's very disturbing. He's paying you a public service. And did George Reese have a bit of a pot belly when he was doing Superman? Or was that stuffing? Stuffing. I don't know.

I thought he sort of cut a fine figure. But are you thinking of Adam West? I mean, Adam West did have a pot belly. They always made fun of Adam West for having a pot belly. Yes, he did. And you know who Adam West beat out for the Batman role? Ty Harden. No.

Was one guy. Lionel Wagner. Oh, Lionel Wagner. He did a screen test. Oh, man. And as a, well, again, as a gay child, I would see Lionel Wagner on Wonder Woman, but before that, he was one of the company players for Cal Burnett,

and he was the sort of token hunk, and at the slightest provocation, she would have him come out without a shirt on. And I was just like, you know, my mom was like, what, what,

what are you looking at? Nothing, nothing. And it was only years later that I found out, like, he could have been Batman. I'm like, oh, man. The screen test is online. The screen test is online. And, I mean, we're so used to Adam West now, it's kind of hard to... Because, I mean, Lionel Wagner, as easy as he is to look at, doesn't really have any personality.

No, West brought something to it. Yeah, West brought that kind of winking to the camera thing. That was fun. It was, yeah. By the way, I like to surprise our guest. Gilbert didn't know about this at all. Did you know there was a project in the works Batman Meets Godzilla that they found in William Dozier's files?

Shit. And papers that he had donated to the university of wyoming a 22 page treatment this is how deep this research is chip and was that gonna be a movie it was a toho project it was gonna be a movie oh and it was written by the writer of Mothra vs. Godzilla. Oh, man. That's one you wish had been made. Well, not only do I wish, but I also had not heard that. Yeah. Which is embarrassing. Do you remember there was one? I think it was Japanese King Kong vs. the Robot. Oh, Techno Godzilla?

Was it Mega Godzilla? Yeah, it was weird. They build a robot. Mega Zilla? To kill Godzilla, but they make the robot look like Godzilla for some reason. Right. There's no point to it. No. Well, that's like your bit about the castle where they built the lever.

Yeah, I always say like in those movies like, oh, that lever blows up the castle. It's like, yeah, when they built the castle, they needed a lever to blow it up. Just in case. The architect put it in. I'll send you this. This was supposedly a Toho project. And there's a 22-page treatment.

That would have been so great. What exists. Yeah. I don't know. Apparently Batgirl turns up in it, and they fight a villain who controls the weather. Oh, what did you think about the Wonder Woman series? The TV series? Yeah.

With Lyle Wagner. Well, Lyle Wagner was... Obviously, he was a fan. He was Steve Trevor. So that, you know, my dad could watch Linda Carter's boobs bounce all over the place and I could watch Lyle and Wagner.

I was thrilled with it. I was thrilled with it. One of the interesting things about it is that it started on one network as a period piece, as a World War II show.

And then I think it moved to CBS and became in the contemporary world. That's weird. With no explanation. But I think what was amazing about that is she just looked perfect. And I think a big part of it is,

you know, the characters look a certain way on the page, obviously, but then when you try to translate them into three dimensions, sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesn't but she there's something about her

that looks perfectly natural in that outfit and the outfit was absolutely faithful to the comics she was well cast and what do you think of the current Giggles Gazoo or whatever Giggles Gazoo

that's a Hebraic pronunciation. Gail Godot. You're so bad. She was an answer in the crossword puzzle the other day. It's Heroic Gal. She's very good. Which was a good clue because Heroic Gal.

Ah, they mean her name. And the answer was Godot. I think she's terrific. I think she's terrific. I think she's absolutely wonderful. And I think they did a brilliant job. My big beef as a fan is why on earth would you set that movie in World War I? Oh, I know. We'll put Wonder Woman in all quiet on the Western front.

That's interesting. Why? That's interesting. She's completely born out of World War II. And I like it most because she's a hot Jew piece of ass. Yes.

Yes, she is. She's in the category of Natalie Portman. Natalie Hirschloch. Yeah, yes. Thor's girlfriend, Natalie Portman. There you go.

Yes, yes. Didn't you ever wonder why the God of Thunder fell in love with a nice Jewish girl from Massapequa? It's like, what? What? And Ringo's wife, Catherine Bach. Yeah. He's also obsessed with Jewish Bond girls.

Yes. There was also... What? What's her name? The English one. Seymour. Jane Seymour. Oh, Jane Seymour.

And in one of the current Bond movies... She was in Live and Let Die. In one of the current Bond movies, they have an Israeli Bond girl. Carol something. I don't know. Do you know the guy that... I think that's great. I think that's great.

I think that's wonderful. Hello, Gino. And there were two that I could think of Jewish Bond villains. Wait for it, Chip. He's at the edge of his seat. Dr. No Was Joseph Wiseman Very good Okay

And the other You'll never get it An African American Jew Yes What? Yes African American Jew

Yes Nipsey Russell was a Bond character No Yafit Koto Yafit Koto You know that actor? I do. I know him from Alien.

Sure, Midnight Run. Yeah. Yafit Koto's a Jew. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, great. He must have converted. I think that's terrific.

This is the shit he cares about. Yeah. Talk about watching the original Batman. You said you watched it with your dad. Yes, I did. Let's talk about all the Jewish Batman. You said you watched it with your dad. Yes, I did. Let's talk about all the Jewish villains on Batman now. And all I can think about is that, oh, he's circumcised. That's awesome.

We like that. We like that. Now, obviously, this is a question. Yes. Obviously, the show worked on several levels it did uh but you were though you would become a designer later in life you were not aware at that age of the pop art component of the show no but i think it definitely had an effect on me and the way i design um because the way they used to tilt the camera. It's like every...

When you tilt the picture plane, it literally creates a sense of tension that you wouldn't have otherwise. Okay, while you were answering that, I thought of a Jewish Batman villain, Otto

Preminger. Yes, that's right. Very good. That's right, Mr. Freeze. Yeah. Well, Eli Wallach's a Jew. Oh, was he? Yes. Sure. He sure was.

Of course. And he was also Mr. Freeze. That's right. Oh, who was who? He was Mr. Freeze, Eli Wallach? Yeah, they both were. Yes. Yeah, no, I knew he was a Jew.

He can't be anything else. It's like saying, gee, Myron Cohen, I'm not sure he could be by the way this batman collected book which now i'm sorry you said is out of print but we're gonna our fans are gonna try to find it you can it's all over how did you i mean this first of all this is a great picture yes i love your stories too i love that. I love this picture where you're wearing the Batman puppet on your hand. Yeah, my mom made those, too. Right. And there's the story from when you were sick and your dad got you the nightlight.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's really sweet. There's some nice stories in the book. But how did you come by all this stuff? I mean, I know some of it you had, like the cape. Some of the stuff was in the family. But you couldn't have owned all this stuff.

No. cape some of the stuff was in the family but god um you couldn't have owned all this stuff no uh when we were doing that or when i was doing that it was this god 1994 95 um there were two people besides myself that had these massive batman collections and one was in kenosha wisconsin and the other was in Cincinnati. And so- How did you know of them? Oh, DC, because this, anytime you do something like this, it has to officially go through DC Comics.

Right, okay. They have to have the stamp of approval. It was the Bat Radio. And they knew. They knew people that did. And I knew as a fan that nobody had done a book like this before. So, which is, and I

you know, I cheated and put a lot of like the original art from the comics in it. I mean, it's ostensibly, it's supposed to be about collecting the toys, but it's more than that. It's great. I mean, I was obviously born in 61, so obviously I was into this series too. There's the Aurora model, Gilbert, which we've talked about. We've talked about the Aurora monster

models that he had. I used to put the monster models together. I did too. There's the Batman one with the original instructions. With the parts broken down. Isn't that fantastic? But to have that, oh to still

have that in that Corgi Batmobile. Yeah, the models I have. Look at this. I used to have Frankenstein, the Wolfman, Dracula, the Invisible Man, Jekyll and Hyde, the Hunchback. Well, his father had a hardware store. Yeah. And did he sell the models in the store? Sometimes he would sell them.

Other times we'd get. I remember my mother, because I was in love with those models. I guess she got them probably two for the price of one because they were together. They were taped together. Bride of Frankenstein with the witch. Right. Then the Bride of Frankenstein one was really, really cool because it was so intricate. Yes.

With the machinery and she's on the slab and all of that stuff. I remember that. There was a Jekyll and Hyde one too. Yes. It was so intricate. Yes. Sure. With the machinery and she's on the slab and all of that stuff. I remember that. There was a Jekyll and Hyde one, too. Yes. Yes. I had the Jekyll and Hyde. How do you say his name? Jiro Kawada?

Jiro. Jiro. Jiro Kawada. Still alive. Yes. Yeah. He is. Wow.

Born in 35. Yep. And there were manga versions of the invaders and the time tunnel now that's outside of my purview ok but tell me about

the discovery because this is a key thing for you the moment that you kind of discovered that Batman had a whole life in Japan which you said was like being a Beatles fan yeah it was really amazing it was like being a Beatles fan. Yeah, it was really amazing. It was like being a Beatles fan and realizing that they recorded an album in Tokyo and kind of left it there and never released it. In this book, there's a section which is all Japanese toys,

but even at that point, I didn't realize that there were also comics. And there is an an amazing batman artist named david mazikelli who had done a um he did a sort of fellowship in tokyo drawing comics in the early 90s and somebody told him about it and then he then he told me but they had never been reprinted so we had to go and it was nuts. Like, buy stuff on eBay in the early days of eBay. Are they still, is Japan still into Batman

with all the different variations and incarnations of the character? It comes and goes. Because you've made several trips over there. I have, yeah. I think it's more niche over there. You know, a movie comes out and then they kind of get excited a little bit, and then it sort of goes away. By the way, Robert Butler, I did a little research, Gino knows this, who directed the Batman pilot and the Star Trek pilot is still with us at the age of 90.

Oh, geez. So we have to track him down if he's able to be interviewed. Wow. if he's able to be interviewed. Wow. Talk a little bit about another book that you did, and Gilbert was fascinated by this, as I was, which is Jack Cole and the Story of Plastic Man.

Okay. And you did this great book with Art Spiegelman. With Art Spiegelman. Okay, so Art Spiegelman, who's a friend of mine, and who I work for. And a Jew. Oh. Wow. And a Pulitzer winner.

You know what? He's several Jews what do you think what do you think of that he's like a little army of Jewish people do you know Art Gilbert I don't think

you should have him on this I went to SVA I know Art a little bit we should he's amazing well first of all when I was in college I started reading Maus M-A-U-S in installments

and then when I started working at Knopf which is part of Random House and there was Pantheon and then Pantheon published the collected Maus and then that was a huge milestone in graphic novels and comics

and they created a special Pulitzer Prize for him and we sort of eventually got to know each other a little bit well he was a huge Jack Cole fan and Plastic Man and lo and behold one day whenever that was you know the New Yorker

comes out and Pl plastic man is on the cover which was just so bizarre um and it was a painting by art and he had written um a lot you know a big long new yorker article on the life of jack cole and uh and you know it being the new yorker they could illustrate it a little bit but not that much it was very pros very pros heavy and so um the head of dc comics at the time a woman named jeanette khan uh he has impeccable comic timing doesn't't he? Much like James Caan. Yes. Different spelling. I believe,

if I'm not mistaken, I think she approached Art about saying, let's turn this into a book. And so he said yes and then brought me on board to design it. Terrific book. It's quite amazing, know, it's quite

amazing, but very sad. I mean, this guy. But he also, Jack Cole, as you know, I mean, he kind of, he was brought on by Hugh Hefner to be the staff cartoonist at Playboy. You'd recognize his stuff from Playboy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Single panel gags. And he was, I don't know, raised in this very straight-laced sort of upbringing and was married. And I don't think they had kids, but he shot himself at, I don't know, in his 40s? Yeah. It was very strange. In a car on some dirt road. Yeah. And so, obviously, there were some, and he left a note saying how sorry he was for what he'd never said.

Well, the note, and it's in your book, is you reprint the note that he sent to Hefner, which is fascinating. Yeah. You know, saying, please don't blame yourself for this. You're a great guy to work for. And what a talent. Yeah, incredible. And it remains a mystery. Yeah, and I guess it always will.

Yeah. I love that mystery. Yeah. And I guess it always will. Yeah. I love that character. Yes. Because it was also one of the few combinations of sort of superhero derring-do and gags. Yes, it was very funny. It's very funny. And they've tried to develop a movie over the years. You'd think it would practically make itself.

You really would. Well, they incorporated some of his powers into Mr. Incredible. Yeah. In The Incredibles. Yes, that's right. And to his Mr. Incredible. Yeah. In The Incredibles. Yes, that's right. Into his wife. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry.

And you were describing like covers of books and movie posters. And you said something really interesting that you like the street signs, like the crossing signs, the electric crossing signs that would have a hand and a number next to it. Yes. I did a book for the TED Talks. Yeah. They started a book in print and they wanted me to a talk, but then also turn it into a book. And it was about, um, in sort of in design, but also in your life, like it was about first impressions, but also like, when should you be clear and when should you be mysterious? And so I go through in different examples of that. And I just remember when they introduced those street signs here that, you know, okay, you have 20 seconds, 19 seconds, 18 seconds to cross the street before you get run over.

So it tells you exactly because remember before. Yeah. It's just a flashing hand. You have to guess right and i'm the sort of person who's always late and always in a hurry and so you know now you have this thing that says to you this is exactly how much time you have so that that to me was an example of clarity that's like really really important and then you redesigned one of those horrible subway signs. Oh, he also redesigned a horrible Amtrak ticket. Wow.

Which I loved. You showed that horrible sign that you look at in every train station, and I go, that might as well be another country. Yeah, yeah. And you redesigned it, and immediately I go, that might as well be another country. Yeah, yeah. And you redesigned it and immediately I go, okay, so the E train is running on the A track. It's like they refuse to do a simple declarative sentence with a beginning, a middle, and an end.

Instead, they do this like bifurcated chart thing, like weekend, time, train thing. This is what, you know, it's crazy. And when you say I redesigned it, yeah, I redesigned it for the book. It never went any farther than that. And it should have.

It was so clear the way you made it. Well, you'd think they'd at least change it or something. Yeah. I also will direct our listeners to buy your chip book. Just to see how you redesigned that amtrak ticket right which used to drive me crazy yes but the the fact that you feel compelled to streamline these things and simplify them and make them i

mean that's a service making them easier for people it's not just the the amtrak ticket and this is going back a ways because now you get your ticket on the phone but that was for a magazine called McSweeney's literary quarterly Dave Eggers they just said we're doing a travel issue and we want you to here's two pages think of something to do

and I take Amtrak all the time there's got to be a book idea in that in just going through life redesigning things that are poorly designed well that's kind of a little bit what the Ted book is okay and that's called Judge This the Ted talks are very funny by the way

and I know people have told you that you should try your hand at stand up well you know I'm a frustrated stand up comic have you seen him live? you and me both yeah but you're a success ad I'm a frustrated stand-up comic, yeah. Have you seen him live? You and me both. Yeah, but you're a success at it. And like you, I hate the new Penn Station,

and I share a love for the demolished Penn Station. It's so sad. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Can I ask you questions from listeners? Please. We have one from your friend, if I can find Dan Reba's question. Okay.

But as I say, here it is. He's a genius and a friend, so many things to talk about. He designed the Jurassic Park logo for Crying Out Loud. He has very informed opinions about the origin of Lucy and Peanuts that he may be willing to share. Does this mean anything?

Well, it's no big secret, but that was Schultz's first wife. And that was the tenor of their relationship. Oh, I've read that. That was the dynamic. Yeah, I mean, that's not a big secret. That he felt that he identified with Charlie Brown being kind of dominated by a woman. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's not a big secret. That he felt that he identified with Charlie Brown being kind of dominated by a woman.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. By the way, the David Michaelis story, where everything went wrong before you got to design the cover of the book, is also fascinating. Yeah. And it's weird and sad. It's an amazing story. We don't have to go into it. We can. It's in the book. Yeah, it is. You want to tell it real quick? Because it's weird and sad and it's an amazing story we don't have to go into it

but it's in the book you want to tell it real quick? I just tried to be as diplomatic as possible because Jeannie Schultz is a dear friend and I was sympathetic to her but they hired David Michaelis to do the official Charles Schultz biography because Michaelis did a biography

of Andrew Wyeth and did a spectacular job because he's a brilliant guy and Wyeth was one of Schultz's great heroes and so they thought okay and so David Michaelis who's a reporter

great writer I botched his name, my apologies threw himself into it, took six years to do it interviewed everybody everybody gave him complete access to everything and Hey, my apologies. That's all right. Threw himself into it. Took six years to do it. Interviewed everybody. Everybody gave him complete access to everything. And he writes this big, massive biography. It lands on their desks with a thud. And everybody gets a courtesy read.

And about, you know, a quarter of the way into it, they're like, oh, this is great. This is brilliant. And halfway into it, it's like, what do you mean he had an affair? And then it just sort of goes on from there. It's a warts and all book. It's a warts and all book,

but the warts aren't all that. No, no. There's no great revelation there. But except that he was depressed. Well, of course he was depressed. Like, how could you read Peanuts and think that that was not the work of somebody who was often very melancholy? I mean, of course he was depressed. Like, how could you read Peanuts and think that that was not the work of somebody

who was often very melancholy? I mean, it's just... Right. It's the thing that attracts you to the strip in the first place when you're that kind of kid. The melancholy and the longing. So the family tried to stop

the book from being published. Legally, they could not, but the only thing they could legally do was prevent him, me, from using any Schultz imagery on the front cover. So now he's got to design the cover of this book, Gilbert, and he can't any Schultz imagery on the front cover. So now he's got to design the

cover of this book, Gilbert, and he can't use Schultz's signature. I mean, in fact, that was going to be the cover of it. I was going to do that with type on it. Which is Charlie, we're in an audio medium, so we'll describe it.

It's just the Charlie Brown squiggles, the two eyes, the sideways nose and the little mouth and the little tuft of hair is what Chip's referring to. Yeah, it's reductive. And anyway, it ended up just being a yellow field with a black zigzag going across it and his name. And that was actually all you really needed. I mean, yeah, it's a fascinating, too. We'll recommend this book as well. But it's also, it's fascinating,

which is called... Only What's Necessary, Charles M. Schultz and the Art of Peanuts. But you really get to track the development, the evolution of the characters. Yeah. And the writing. They gave me complete access. That's great.

And I'm not, I mean, I throw in my opinion here and there about, you know, but it's all about the art. It's not about the life. I'm not, I mean, the life gets thrown in there, but I'm not conjecturing on, well, he must have felt this or that. It's just like, well, you know, he tried a go-kart in this one, and we never see a go-kart again. I didn't know he had attempted, and Gilbert didn't either. We were looking at it before you got here, that he tried his hand at adults. Adults.

An adult strip, and a strip that was completely separate from peanuts. Right. How long did that last, the adult? Well, there's there were two Sunday strips, and this, well, again, nobody can see, but if you...

I promise we'll be a video podcast next time we have you back. Schultz tried, and he tried lots of things that he just decided didn't work, but they had to go to press with. For the two of the Sunday strips, they were continued, and Lucy was in a golf tournament and for some reason Charlie Brown was her caddy but all the other players were adults so you only see them from the waist down, pardon me, so you get this

kind of you know, kids eye view of them and that lasted for two weeks and then that was it, he never tried that again. It's interesting. It's also interesting that there are things in the book that he never meant to be seen or published.

And the family was okay with that. They were, I mean, they have to, well, they were definitely okay with it or that book wouldn't exist. I think, you know,

but they were very supportive. It's a wonderful book. As is your other Peanuts book. Very supportive. What, um, Oh, as is your other Peanuts book. Very supportive. What, um... Oh, as far as superheroes go... Yes? How did the Hulk's pants stay on?

Chip, you have to answer for the entire superhero industry. As a gay child, I asked myself this all the time. Please, please split those seams. You wanted to see his green penis? Oh, my God. Yes. I wanted to swing on it.

Are you kidding? Oh, man. Like, obviously, you haven't seen the new movie. No. But, well, one of the schticks is that Bruce Banner and the Hulk basically meld into one being, which is now called Smart Hulk. So it's sort of like the Hulk,

but he's not, like, angry all the time. And which basically means he's, like, the sexiest man on the planet. At, which is basically means he's like the sexiest man on the planet. Like, at least, you know, for me anyway.

It's like, oh my God. Oh my God. Yes. Okay, you, we'll save the Cesar Romero story for the end

because I'm sure he hasn't heard it. Okay. but, what's your, this is a question I'm sure you've been asked. Do you have a favorite

Schultz strip? A favorite? Because I have a favorite. Well. That defines the characters for me. Charlie and I used to talk about this, like a single strip. Charlie Kochman, you mean. Yeah, Charlie Kochman, my wonderful, fabulous editor.

Who also knows Gilbert, just to catch our listeners up. And discovered Jeff Kinney. Discovered the wimpy kid guy discovered I mean that exists because Charlie we always default to the very first strip you do and it's I think it's Shermie

and Patty Shermie was a lot more prominent in the early strips yeah but see things like that evolved and when Schultz decided well I don't have any more ideas? Shermie was a lot more prominent in the early strips. Yeah, but see, things like that, it evolved. And when Schultz decided, well, I don't have any more ideas for Shermie, then Shermie would just go away. And all of a sudden, there's Pig Ben. Yeah.

But, no, it's just the two little kids on the stoop. And, you know, panel one, oh, here comes Charlie Brown. Good old Charlie Brown Brown Charlie Brown passes out and the final strip the final panel Shermie says how I hate him that sums it up and that's how

Peanuts begins I mean it's really like who did that now I remember there was the Superman series that, and this shows my mind is gone. The cartoonist, the Batman, not the Batman, the Popeye creator. Why was his name? Oh, his name went out of my head.

What the hell was his? Sagar. Yeah, yes. No, no, no, no. Okay, now you're thinking of the Fleishers? Fleischer. Oh, his name went out of my head. What the hell was his... Sagar. Yeah, yes, yes. No, no, no, no. Okay, now you're thinking of the Fleishers? Fleischer! Okay, okay. Oh, he was the animator.

But they were the animators. Yeah. Not the creator. Yeah, but Fleischer was the one who designed the art for the Batman. No, you're thinking of the Superman. Not Superman! I'm getting it all confused! Fuck me me I know

but I'll just take over for a sec yeah okay I wish you would but you do it weekly Max and Dave Fleischer Max and Dave Fleischer had this incredible

animation studio they were trying to rival Disney and they adapted Popeye and before that they adapted Betty Boop and they did very early what's called rotoscoping which was they would have

actors, they would film the actors and then draw over them and so what became DC Comics they wanted to rival Disney with a cartoon for Paramount, they went to the Disney with a cartoon for Paramount. They went to the Fleishers

and they said, we want you to do a series of Superman shorts, short cartoons, subject for movie theaters. And the Fleishers actually didn't want to do it. And I'm condensing the story.

So they said, okay, but it'll cost you $200,000 an episode. Because they figured, all right, that's our way of, we don't have to say no and we just get out of doing it.

And Paramount said yes. And so now they were stuck doing it and those are some of the very best cartoons that anybody ever made. They really are. They're great. I like those. And that's another thing.

They did Betty Boop, which was one of the most deranged cartoons. She was very sexy. And her boyfriend, I heard originally they were all animals. Betty Boop was like a girl dog. And she had a dog boyfriend. Okay. Boop was like a girl dog and she had a dog boyfriend. Okay. And then when they

made her a real woman, they kept a boyfriend as a dog. So Betty Boop is going out with a dog in it. And plus her head is just giant. Yes, yes. Giant, teeny little body, giant head.

And they have her doing these sexy dances and I remember they had And they have her doing these sexy dances. And I remember they had one. She's doing a sexy dance on stage. And the entire audience is different animals hooting and hollering and applauding like a strip show. Here's another one from a listener. From Cedric Wilson. What is, as a collector, what is Chip's holy grail?

People ask you this a lot. Oh God. An item he most regrets missing out on. Huh? That I don't have? Yeah. Because you've got the, we should tell people you've got in your apartment, the Batcave. You've got a collection of this stuff. I've got a bunch of stuff. Yeah, cool stuff. Oh, jeez. Get back to us on that. Yeah. I don't have... Because they're so prohibitively expensive now, but I don't have any of the costumes or props from the show. Mm-hmm.

That would be... It is prohibitively expensive. That would be really, really cool. But, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars. We know somebody who can get you a utility belt. Really? We'll talk. All right. Greg Anderson, who is Chip's Batman artist?

Who is his Batman artist? Maybe he has a top two or three. You're Neil Adams' guy, aren't you? I was. Oh, you were? Until I met him. Oh! Sorry, I brought it up.

And I avoided it, because I heard that he's not a nice person. All those meeting your heroes is treacherous. Meeting your heroes. And I was at a convention once and he was there and he was at a table and there weren't many people. And I thought, all right, I'm just going to introduce myself. And I don't know, this was six years ago, six, seven years ago. And he says, I finally, you know, there's two or three people ahead of me and I get up to him and I'm like, well, Mr. Adams, I told him my name and he said,

oh, I know you. You do some really good work, but you also do some really bad work. Oh. Well, Mr. Adams, could you tell me what some of that is so that I can improve? Oh, well, I can't really think of anything right now. But yeah, no, I've seen some stuff that you do that I really can't stand. Is he slipping? Is that the problem? And I was like, wow. All right.

Well, it's been so nice to meet you okay so the answer is not going to be that no I was a huge fan as a kid I mean obviously Frank Miller but even more the gentleman who I mentioned before who worked with Frank Miller on something called Batman Year One

which is a guy named David Mazzichelli and incredible he only did one story but it's just perfect yeah it's just absolutely beautiful i like the guy that the brit who who illustrated your your graphic novel and his name is escaping me dave dave taylor dave taylor yeah nice work brilliant brilliant guy and that's all done in pencil i was not familiar with his work before. What else you have for this gentleman, Gilbert? Oh. Anything else?

No. I'm just, I'm trying to think of other. You're still fixated on Hulk penis? Hulk penis. He has a story. This is, of course, we like to think of it as a Hollywood urban myth. Because we were talking about me as Miss Jess Piglick. Yeah.

Could everybody, can anyone out there go to my Twitter account, Real Gilbert, and tell me all the things I've been as Miss Jess Piglick in? You want them to do that now? Yes, I'll wait. No, because I don't know other than Tim Daly, but I know I've done it a bunch of times. Did you ever play a character called Toy Man?

Toy Man, that was Nick Nack. Oh, that was Nick Nack, okay. That was the master of toys. Okay. Now, okay, Cesar Romero, best known as the Joker. This is our big... of toys. Okay. Right. Now, okay, Cesar Romero, best known as

the Joker. Gay! Yes, yes. This is our big closer, Chip. Okay. No, there's anything wrong with that. And, uh, and he, okay, best known as the Joker and Joker

with a mustache. Mother mustache. Damn that mustache. So in movies, he was, you know, a Latin lover and romanced the ladies. But in real life, what he was into was gathering up a bunch of boy toys, and he would stand there. He'd pull down his pants and underwear and i i guess bend over and they would fling orange wedges at his ass and some say some say he stood ankle deep

in warm water that's the only variation. Oh, also, I've gotten arguments that it was tangerine wedges. Who among us can say that at some point we all haven't yanked down our pants and our underpants

and been pelted with citrus? I mean, come on. Not me. I can't. Now, please. But there's got to be... I wouldn't single him out for this because we've all been there.

We've all had that phase. I want you to know that everybody who's remotely associated with Batman has heard this he said this to Adam West I'll never work again he said it to Julie Newmar he said it to he said it to Lee Merriweather

and I say it to people who have no connection to Batman I said it to the author of Schindler's List. I think. Who preferred limes, by the way. Chip, we gotta plug the books. This would be a

terrible time to thank Lisa Bernbach for introducing us. She's deeply, deeply backing away from all of this. Another wonderful book that you, True Prep, Lisa's book that you designed. Yeah, she was a childhood hero of mine. We love Lisa and we thank Lisa for setting this up. We got to plug the books. The Charlie Brown book.

This wonderful Batman collected book that you can't get because it's out of print. Yes. This one is in print. Shazam! The Golden Age of the World's Mightiest Mortal.

I'm going to tell people to get the wonderful Plastic Man book that you did with Art Spiegelman. Also out of print. Which is wonderful. And by the way, I'm a third of the way. I'm a very busy guy,man. Also out of print. Which is wonderful. And by the way, I'm a third of the way,

I'm a very busy guy, Chip. Yes, you are. I'm a third of the way through your novel, through the Cheese Monkeys, and I'm enjoying it very much. Good. And we'll talk when it's finished.

I would love to. What else is coming up? What else have you got to plug? Oh, God. What else do I have to plug? Will there be another manga? Did we say there was another thing? Well, I'd like to do a super manga,

but that's all tied up in legal crap. But I bet you a lot of those lawyers are Jews. I bet they are. I have this big Marvel book that's just out now called Marvelosity. Oh, that's the one with Alex Ross. With Alex Ross. Wonderful.

Yeah, I've done two books with him. He's fantastic. We should have Alex on here. Oh, that two books with him he's fantastic we should have Alex on here he's a universal horror guy for sure oh did you see his yeah have you seen

his universal horror drawings oh my god Alex Ross the cartoon art he does these painterly superheroes yes yes oh they're beautiful

he's a very gifted illustrator you have to get them you have to get them you can buy them as lithographs. And he painted them in black and white and did just about everybody. But he sort of reimagined.

You'll love it. Love it, love it, love it. Okay. And would you look at Gilbert's drawings and see if he should be institutionalized? Sure. Well, this is... Look, it's just been an incredible treat i've been did you have fun yes and i've been such a fan of yours for so long and i and when i used to listen to

howard stern i mean you would be the one of the highlights definitely how about that and we do groucho marx give him a little give him a little yeah like wait okay it. Like, wait, okay, it's Groucho, and I've just hit on him. Okay. You know, once I was on a show, and a homosexual, and his name was Chip, and he was, back in my day, homosexuals were men who had sex with other men. Which meant they could have oral sex, which would be the mouth.

All right, all right. It's like a dream come true. You've got to keep that in. You've got to... Don't edit that out, please. We'll leave it in for you. Sometimes I have anal. Alright. And what would that be?

I don't understand. One person, back in my day, he was called an erection. You mean like a building? Yeah. And it was incited in the anal cavity.

This is the strangest Batman tribute show in history. And certainly the darkest. Well, I don't know. Happy 80th Batman. Yes. Chip, thanks for doing this, man.

Thank you, guys. This was a lot of fun. Oh, God. Come back and play with us another time. I would love to. Okay. Well, I don't know. He's a homosexual.

I don't want him playing with me. You want to sign off? We didn't even talk about Saul Bass, which is a whole other... I know you were at the Saul Bass event.

Yes. Yes, we're Saul Bass fans. And you know he made the shower scene. He did? The entire thing. Oh. Yes.

Saul Bass. Okay, we can't stop now. Saul Bass directed the shower scene. That's impressive. He did? Yeah. Wow. Yep.

And, you know, for another episode, we'll leave that as a cliffhanger. Okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and a man who took time out of his busy schedule to confirm that the Jews, that's right, the Jews created superheroes and he'd still like to swing on the Hulk's dick. Chip, this is one of the strangest episodes we've ever done. It is strange. I can't link it to my elementary school fans anymore. They'll have to wait until they're 18, and then we can link it.

Thanks for coming in, buddy. Shit, kid. Thank you, Chip. Can I put my clothes on now? Yes. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Thank you. I'm going to go. is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre, with audio production by Frank Furtarosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals.

Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.