Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 272. Griffin Dunne

Episode Date: August 12, 2019

Actor, producer and director Griffin Dunne drops by the studio to talk about vanishing New York, teaming up with Martin Scorsese and Sidney Lumet, the timelessness of Billy Wilder's "Ace in the Hole" and the life (and work) of his famous family members, Dominick Dunne and Joan Didion. Also, Otto Preminger takes a bad trip, Jerry Lewis interprets Gore Vidal, Griffin sneaks onto the set of "Gilligan's Island" and Tim Burton (almost) directs "After Hours." PLUS: "The Panic in Needle Park"! The artistry of Harry Nilsson! The brilliance of Rick Baker! Howdy Doody pleasures himself! And Griffin shares the screen with the Material Girl!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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product availability may vary by regency app for details hi this is ro Wall, and you are listening to the one, the only, my longtime buddy is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadadre and our engineer Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is our favorite kind of guest, a New Yorker. He's also a producer, an Oscar-nominated director, a documentary filmmaker, and one of the most visible, versatile, and respected actors of his generation. He's produced prestige films, including Baby, It's You, White Palace, Once Around, chilly scenes of winter, the Sidney Lumet directed Running on Empty, and a personal favorite of this podcast, The Martin Scorsese Directed After Hours, in which he also starred as the tormented hero Paul Hackett. As a director, he's helmed the movies Practical Magic, Addicted to Love, Fierce People, and the Academy-nominated short

The Duke of Groove. He's also produced and directed a terrific documentary about his legendary aunt Joan Didion called Joan Didion, The Center Will Not Hold. But it's his decades of excellent work as an actor that he's best known for, appearing in dozens of notable TV shows such as Frasier, Damages, House of Lies, The Good Wife, This Is Us, The Romanoffs, and I Love Dick, as well as his feature films, My Girl, Quiz Show, Who's That Girl, Search and Destroy, Dallas Buyers Club, and of course, an American werewolf in London.

Frank and I are excited to welcome to the podcast an artist of multiple interests and talents and a man who says he once watched director Otto Preminger freak out during a bad acid trip. Griffin Dunn. I sound fascinating. Hi, Griffin. How you doing? I am really well. So I guess we're going to have to start with that.

Yeah, let's. No, true story. As a matter of fact, you mentioned the have to start with that. Yeah, let's. No, true story. As a matter of fact, you mentioned the movie Duke of Groove. Yeah. It was a very kind of autobiographical. It was the very first thing I ever did as a director. And it was based on a party I went to at my aunt and uncle at John Dunn, Joan Didion's house in 1969. And my mother brought me and it was on a school night. And she brought me because I begged her to because I knew that

Janis Joplin was going to be there. And I love Janis Joplin. And so when we got to this party, I said to my mom, as we were pulling up in the driveway, I said, can you just pretend you don't know me? And I was pretty sure Janice was going to like meet me and, you know, say who are you here with? And I don't want to say my mom, you know. So I'm walking through. Of course, she ignored me as did everyone at the party. I'm waiting for Janice. But as I'm walking around, no one talked to me.

You know, people kind of hid joints as I walked away. I was like 13. Until this guy in a Nehru jacket wearing a gold necklace who I recognized immediately as Colonel Clank from Hogan's Heroes.

And he goes, Come here, come here. He goes, I sit here. You have nice vibes. You vibe very nice. You stay here. Stay here. I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out on the acid.

I took the acid as you are the only, only life here. Do not leave me. Do stay here. And he's holding onto my hand really close. And I'm looking at him closer. And I realize it's not Colonel Clint from Hogan's Heroes. So it's less impressive. And he's just a bald German guy, as far as I know.

I didn't know who Otto Preminger was. And I finally extricate myself. And he goes, stop! Halt! Halt! He didn't say, I didn't have you shocked, but it sounded like it. And I moved on to the rest of the party. And so the movie, that scene is not in the movie, but it's about Tobey Maguire, who played

my alter ego in it about the adventures that he has walking through the party and all the incredible people he meets in this one night it's very good it's on YouTube

people can see it they put it on YouTube in four parts I know and it's all screwed up because the ending YouTube for some reason

cuts it off I know go to Vimeo Vimeo okay and it's all in one fell swoop it's a nice 30 40 minute film it's very sweet it could swoop. It's a nice 30, 40-minute film. It's very sweet.

It could have been a feature. It could have been a feature. I know. It's Cameron Crowe-esque, if I may say. Yes, I thought the same. And you have no idea of the images floating through Otto Preminger's mind. Maybe he was doing research for Skidoo. Some dark, dark stuff.

Do you remember one of his movies was the sterile cuckoo? Yes. Do you remember with the scar on Liza Minnelli's face? Was that it? Yes. I think that's Pakula. Oh, you know what? You're right. That's Alan Pakula. You know your stuff. But anyway, you know, there's...

I looked him up. I think he's not even German. I think it might be Austrian. Yeah. Well, he made that movie Skidoo where Gleason supposedly took acid. Remember this movie that he made with Gleason and Groucho? Oh, God. Yeah. You may have caught him in mid-research.

There's also the famous story of him actually setting Gene Seberg on fire as John O'Rourke. Oh, yeah, that one I know. And while she was being burned at the stake, they really heated her up. They did? Yeah, he wanted that look. And they got the look of terror

and then, you know, got rid of the fire. Not a liked guy. Not a well-liked guy. Oh no, no. He was brutal. Brutal on his actresses. Yeah.

Yeah, everybody hated him. Yeah. We had Austin Pendleton on the Yeah. Everybody hated him. Yeah. We had Austin Pendleton on the show. He liked him. Yes. Yeah. I liked Otto.

That was shocking. But, you know, I think he was different toward men than he was toward women. You know, actresses. Interesting. This was not atypical of your childhood, doing things like this. No. This is the fun thing. But one of the fun things about researching you is is hearing about everybody that came to the house and i was telling gilbert i mean wilder and george stevens and selznick and all of these people yeah that

you grew up around and unfortunately being too young to recognize the value i'm so bummed about that you know because i've uh they're just you know, and I was just reading a biography of a guy named Ivan Moffat. Now, Ivan Moffat was a guy who smoked English with this very posh English accent. And he would smoke and they would go, the cigarettes, and I remember this as a little kid, would all get on his lap. And he was like, you know how adults can sometimes be ridiculous figures to a child. And, you know, I didn't find out until, you know, he passed away recently. I didn't find out that, in fact, this guy was with George Stevens, and they went in the liberation of Auschwitz. Yeah.

Ivan is one of the photographers wow then he became a screenwriter and he wrote Shane he wrote in a lonely place wow he uh and giant I mean you might my my three favorite films you know that name and then oh it's fascinating I mean he would have been a great guest yeah um and uh and had an extraordinary life of lovers and all this kind of stuff and that was like the least known person that would come to the house. Yeah. It's a fascinating childhood. You're talking about how your aunt and your uncle and your dad

would sit and talk about the weekend box office take and studio politics. Yeah, that was our dinner table talk. And your father was friends with Humphrey Bogart. I wouldn't say they were friends, but one of his – he was – my father was a stage manager in live television and Playhouse 90. And one of – they were going to do an episode in Los Angeles, a live episode broadcast from Los Angeles. And they sent him there to be the stage manager. And Humphrey Bogart was going to star in it, or did star in it. And Bogart said to him, you know, one day after the end of rehearsal, he goes, you know,

how do you like Los Angeles, kid? And he goes, you want to go to a party? And he goes, yeah, yeah, you know, put on a suit and we'll go to a party tonight. And he goes to this party and it's like everyone in the world is at this party. And, you know, Bing Crosby is singing at the piano and, you know, all the movie stars they grew up with were all there and they all welcomed him. And he called up my mom that night. He goes, we got to move to L.A. That was it, huh?

We got to get out of New York. We're going to be here. There were different stories about it. There's a story that Bogart took a shine to him and brought him to L.A. to do a live version of Petrified Forest. Not true. I don't think he decided. I don't think it was Bogart. Maybe.

You could be right about that. But I don't think. I thought that they met there. But he might have. I don't think he decided. I don't think it was. Maybe. You could be right about that. But I don't think. I thought that they met there. But he might have. I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure. Differing reports on it. But it's fascinating.

And also that he was. Gilbert got a kick out of this, too. That your dad was the floor manager on Howdy Doody. I know. He was. And what they would do is, you know, before it would roll, they would take Howdy and they'd make him jerk off and go, ow! And they would go down on Howdy and they'd do all this shit like this. They're counting off on the live talent.

Four, three, two. And then they'd put Howdy back and walk away. That is gold. They did filthy, filthy things put Howdy back and walk away. That is gold. They did filthy, filthy things to Howdy. That is gold. I learned a lot about your dad doing the research. I mean, I knew a lot about him. I didn't know about Howdy Doody.

That's just for you. God, how I wish there was a film of that. Can you imagine? Better be in an old kinescope somewhere. I hope. And one of his jobs is bringing the kids into the peanut gallery. Yeah, yeah. But he did it all.

He edited. He talks about how he learned live television. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It was a real learning experience. From being in the trenches. Yeah. Yeah.

The other thing I found fascinating, too, was the Sinatra story. That he said that when they were doing a live version of Our Town, do I have this right? Yeah. The other thing I found fascinating, too, was the Sinatra story. He said that when they were doing a live version of Our Town, do I have this right? Yeah. And he said it was the first time he'd seen a star act out an ego trip where they were doing this. I can't remember who the director was. It was a known director with Sinatra who gave the guy a really terrible time. But he says in the doc that Sinatra liked him.

Like your dad. My dad said that? Yeah. About Sinatra? Did he tell the Sinatra story about paying the maitre d' to punch him in the face? That one I don't know.

Oh, well, tell it. Yeah, because we didn't grow up liking Sinatra because of this very story. There used to be a club in LA called The Daisy. And it was like a club in L.A. called The Daisy, and it was like a disco at night and a place to eat during the day with membership. And in like 1963 or so, my mother, who was a very, very beautiful woman,

and my dad walked into the restaurant where the maitre d' seated them. And, you know, when the maitre d', in those days, people would, like, send the maitre d' Christmas presents for their children and, you know, just to, you know, make sure they got the good table and all that kind of stuff. It was a real kind of community. And there was nobody there during the day except for them and Sinatra in the corner with Jilly Rizzo and about four other guys. And for some reason, Sinatra had like teased dad or mom at other things before.

And he'd yell across the room, hey, when are you going to get rid of that guy, Lenny, and, you know, come and meet a real man kind of thing. And so there's been those sort of taunts. Anyway, they're sitting at the table. Major D comes over. And he stands over my dad. And he's kind of shaking. And he says, Mr. Sinatra made me do this

and he whaps him across the face like with all of his strength and Jelly and Frank roar with laughter and my dad and my mom, they get up, they go, they leave, they go to their car,

the maitre d' comes out and he cries. He's bursting to d' comes out, and he cries. He's burst into tears. And he goes, he scared me. He scared me. And he offered me the money. He gave me $100 to do that, and I had to do that. And I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. And they never went back to the club again. Wow. So that was like our little childhood story about Frank Sinatra. So, you know, when he became really in vogue, and, you know, all my friends would go, oh, you know, the chairman of the board and he's the coolest cat. I go, I don't think he's that cool. You had a different take. I had a different take.

Yeah. And it's funny. It's like nowadays if a celebrity did something like that, forget it. The world would know immediately. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's an interesting journey, though, for your dad, too. He goes to work for this company, Four Star Studios, which was run by David,

and I was telling Gilbert, David Niven and Dick Powell. Charles Boyer. Charles Boyer. People he liked very much. Yeah. And he wound up being involved in all of this wonderful television. Some live and shows that weren't live. I mean, Richard Diamond, Wanted Dead or Alive, The Rogues, St. Grey Theater.

A lot of really good early television. Yeah, yeah. The Big Valley. Big Valley, yeah. It was considered a Tiffany production company. Big Valley? It was considered a Tiffany production company. They were very classy in an era where there were a lot of silly shows.

Now, having said that, those silly shows were the ones I watched. Of course. I would go to the set. I would go. His office was at Radford Studios at CBS. And I would go after school, and I wouldn't go see him. I would go right to the set of Gilligan's Island. That's great. I thought that lagoon was one of the most beautiful things I ever saw in my life.

That was nature to me. Then I'd go over to McHale's Navy in Gunsmoke, and I would just wander onto these lots. And those were my favorite shows. Entertaining fantasies of being an actor at that point there was there was a series called I've looked it up on IMDB and I can barely I still can't find it

but I'm telling you it existed and it was called McIver's Colonels and it was about a boys military school and McIver was a kid my age who was like nine or ten and i would go to the set and i would watch him work going i can do that i can do that and um i was so competitive with mckeever and uh one day i at, I'm in a playground.

It's totally empty, the playground. And I'm like playing basketball, you know, and just dribbling to myself. And all of a sudden I see this kid, McKeever, running at breakneck speed

across the playground. Being chased by about four or five kids. And I went, suddenly I went, oh my God, I got to protect, I got to save McKeever. I mean, they're going to hurt him, you know. And McKeever goes and he climbs up this wire fence, you know, this chain link fence. And I'm just watching, you know, there's like my competition but kind of hero. I kind of idolized him. And he gets up and he screams down at them.

He goes, I make more money than all your parents, so fuck you. That's fantastic. I don't think I like this kid. How disillusioning. It really was. It was like my first brush with, you know, don't get to know your heroes. Right. But it's interesting, too, that your dad, and we were talking before you got here,

that he went on to produce good movies. Yeah. Boys in the Band and Panic in Needle Park. But at some point decided that this was a life that he wasn't cut out for. I mean, to quote him, he said he didn't have the balls of somebody like Selznick. He also, you know, and this is also what he said, you know, he really self-destructed. You know, he was a very, you know, he struggled with alcohol and drugs, and he made some terrible decisions, and socially.

And, you know, he never got his groove, really, when he and my mom divorced. You know, he was terribly lost. And he made a real flop movie called Ash Wednesday with Elizabeth Taylor. We were talking about it, yeah. And it was a big flop. And he was drunk and told a disparaging story about Sue Mingers. That ended up in the paper.

Even though he told it while he was in Italy, it ended up in the trades. And the vice president of Paramount called him up and said, when you get home, you know it's over, right? I mean, you're over. And he went, yeah, I know, I know. And it was. he never worked again and um and he ended up you know uh kind of uh working with like dvd or early those laser discs yeah you know and

for rca you know selling in this little crappy office and and A, it was a real comedown. And ended up going to Oregon because his car broke down. He lost all his money. That's fascinating, too. And then he reinvented himself. As a writer. As a writer. And became a very, very successful writer. Yeah, very.

Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball.

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Echo thanks its presenting partners Sun Life and its official partners Air Canada and MasterCard. Is that the movie that you made with Margolin that we were talking about outside, The Discoverers? It's in Oregon. It is in Oregon. Not by accident. By total fluke. Oh, okay.

I mean, the director and producer didn't know that. But we ended up shooting where my father's car broke down. It's a great coincidence. Where the cabins were that he lived in exile in for over a year. You'd like this movie, Gilbert, with Griffin and Stuart Margolin, who I was telling you we had. Yeah, terrific guest. He's a fun guy. But you said that your dad inspired the performance?

I thought of him a great deal. Yeah. Yeah, throughout making that, I thought of him a great deal. Good film. We've discussed After Hours a number of times on the podcast. We used to do smaller episodes on Thursdays where we'd each pick a movie we loved. And I picked After Hours. And then we kept revisiting it.

Because it's just a movie that stays with you. Well, you know that you're Marty's favorite comedian. You must have heard that before. And you could tell by all the Scorsese films. Well, exactly. Your imprint is on all of them um did you like my work and i'm not saying and last temptation of christ oh you were hilarious No, I happen to know that because Marty chose you to give an award to Bob at Gracie Mansion, and I was there. I went to Gracie Mansion.

I forget if it was honoring De Niro or honoring Marty, but you gave the award, and you were hilarious. And Marty just, you know, you can't hear him when he laughs. And you just, you just, you know, killed him. But I was just thinking of that today in the shower. I'm not. I'm not, Gilbert. I remember that. That was years ago.

I got a call at the last second that, oh, they were giving Marty an award. Was it Marty giving the award? I think because of preserving film. That's right. That's right. Something like that. And I remember I did this, I did a whole bunch of jokes and then that Koch was the mayor.

I was going to say it was Koch, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and Koch just comes up afterwards with a completely confused look on his face after I get off and goes, our next guest. So I'm Scorsese's favorite? Yeah. You'd think you'd have brought that up, Gilbert. That's how that came about. Yeah.

He goes, you know, he was doing it, and I think we all went in the car down to the award thing. He goes, I got Gilbert. He's doing this thing. He's the funniest guy. He's this funny. And he just, you know, he loves you. Wow. Yeah.

Two-story. How about that, Gil? Yeah. And meanwhile. He's a sucker for a Norman Felt reference. Yes. Yes. And meanwhile, during every Scorsese films, I'm doing Mr. Chuckles in Indiana.

Sir laughs a lot. Yes. We have Rosanna here, as I told you. Yeah. But tell me, I don't know the genesis of it. I don't know how you wound up. I know you and your producing partner, Amy Robinson, wound up producing the film. Yeah. As well as you starring in it.

Did you both find Joe Minion's script and bring it to Marty? No, Amy found it. She found it. She was at the very first year of Sundance, not the festival, the workshop, which was where Redford has his house. It was where Redford has his house, and they would develop projects and choose filmmakers, and then they would choose advisors. And I believe Amy was there possibly as an advisor or whatever capacity. There was a great Serbian director named Dujan Makovejev, and he had an assistant who worked for him who went to Columbia. He was a Columbia student.

And he said, you should read this script. One of my students wrote it. He's my assistant, but he's a student at this school, and you should read it. It's pretty good. And anyway, she called me up and said, I have the greatest part in the world for you. This is like, and I haven't really, I'd only done Werewolf, but.

And, you know, then I read the script and it just gave me a complete anxiety attack and laughed at the same time. I had to read it standing up, turning the pages with my big toe and just would walk away going, oh, my God. Oh, God. with my big toe and just would walk away going, oh, my God, oh, God. And, you know, the first person, because Amy was friendly with and she was an actress in Mean Streets. Right. He became like the very first person we thought of. The last movie he'd done was King of Comedy,

which was totally different in tone, as you know. But she knew that he was funny. You know, like, and so we gave him the script. He went off to do Last Temptation and

couldn't do the movie. So we started working with Tim Burton. Oh, I didn't know that. That the movie. And so we started working with Tim Burton. Oh, I didn't know that. That's interesting. And then Marty gets fired. They cancel Last Temptation. He's on his flight back. They pull the plug on this thing, Paramount.

And he's on the flight back from Casablanca or somewhere in Morocco. And there at the top of the pile is After Hours. And he lands, and we all had the same lawyer at the time, a great guy named Jay Julian. And he calls up Jay and goes, what's the story with that? That's what I want to do. And Tim, at that time, we were only aware of him from a – they showed a comic or like a cartoon before a movie started, and it was his. And we went, whoever did that is the guy for After Hours.

Burbank and he was an animator and he had the short sleeve button up shirt with the pencil pen packs with the ink draining through the pocket. Real nerd stuff. But you could tell he was brilliant. But this would have been his first movie.

And so we said kookiest thing happened the other day. We told you we gave you the script to Marty and and, you know, he couldn't do it. Anyway, now he wants to do it. So, anyway, we were down the road with you. We were just like, we were going to go through with what we were going to do. But he goes, wait, did you say Mr. Scorsese wants to do this movie?

Yeah, yeah, but, you know, we said, you know, I will not stand in the way of anything he wants to do. I respectfully withdraw. How about that? Yeah. Would have been a different movie. Wildly different. Wildly different. Yeah.

And when Scorsese was directing the actors, I heard you say in an interview that he would bring them a clip of film from different movies and say i want this scene to be kind of like this scene in this movie yeah there was like a um he was very inclusive with his thought process and it was it was more it wasn't like saying you have to – I want you to act like that. But he would say this is what influenced me. These are the movies that – it was really like going to film school. I mean all through pre-production, we would either – and movies were on those video cassettes. And we looked at a ton of movies or we'd look at it in a screening room uh what was

he showing you tempo pace tone just just sort of tone influence oh tone you know hitchcock um third man he wanted to be nightmarish yeah yeah and and uh and then if there was a movie i wasn't aware of and i wasn't there he'd have an assistant bring down a video cassette, and I'd watch it on my own time. He'd go, did you see the film? I went, yeah, you know what I'm saying? And it wasn't like that's what I want you to do. He just wanted you to know.

But it was also, you know, I was a young man, and I don't think outside of, you know, Alice doesn't live here anymore, I don't think he'd worked you know, Alice doesn't live here anymore, I don't think he'd worked with such a young guy, you know, age difference-wise from him. So I think he was like, it was my education too. You know, he wanted me to know all this stuff. And then that extended to everyone.

I've yet to have this experience on a movie where he, on the on the sides or on the and you know on the call sheet that the actors and everyone in the crew would get for every page of dialogue there was another page of all the of the shot lists and very elaborate shots so that everyone knew what the shot was going to be and they were very elaborate shots, and they'd be simple shots. But he just put everyone from, you know, at every level in departments in the frame of mind. Interesting. What a cast.

Yeah. Yeah. And Rosanna said the same thing that you said, that you would see him out of your peripheral vision shaking with laughter. Yeah. It was a great thing to see. And one thing Franken and I enjoyed very much was the story of how Scorsese said, he said, you shouldn't have sex.

Oh, yes. He wanted, he felt very strongly that there would be a look in my eyes if I went a couple of months without any release. And he wanted no release. And then, I'm not going to tell you if I honored that or not but if I slipped he could tell so later when we were promoting the movie Marty loved

Dr. Ruth Ruth Westheimer and so he said of all the interviews that we were doing Marty loved Dr. Ruth, Ruth Westmeyer. Oh, yeah. Who doesn't? And so he said, of all the interviews that we were doing together, he's the one who asked for her.

And he goes, and so he and I are sitting and Dr. Ruth is over there. We're doing the interview. He goes, so Marty tells me

that you did not have sexual release for three months. What was that like? Did you ever have the orgasm when the shooting was over? Did you masturbate? I could have died. I could have fucking died. You know, it's a rare episode where we get an Otto Preminger and a Dr. Ruth impression. Yeah, it's rarer than I get a chance to do it.

In one show. Because I always heard that with coaches and athletes. And sports, yeah. And fighters. And fighters. Yeah. We love movies that show New York. I know you're a movie buff too movies like Serpico

and the taking of Pelham 123 you get to see real old New York here's old New York in the 80's that really doesn't exist anymore especially Soho and I heard you say you could lie down and fall asleep in the middle of those streets now nobody would bat an eye

it's like Rodeo Drive now it's all gone It's all gone It's all, you know, people find that hard to believe That there was an area in New York that was so desolate Yeah, I mean, we were both around then You lived on St. Mark's Place Yeah, I lived on Avenue A

Avenue A Yeah What years? Oh, my God I came from Brooklyn And then I think it was like in the 70s. Yeah. And I remember when I moved to Avenue A, people were saying, what are you, out of your mind? You're moving, you're living on Avenue A?

And B and C during the daytime, you know, that was taking your life in your hands. That was a suicide. The only time I've ever been mugged was, I now live in the East Village, you know, three blocks or so from where I was first mugged. But the first time, and the only time in a sort of serious way, I was mugged. I sort of deserved it. I was. Were you mugged by Gilbert Griffin? Yes. Yeah. I sort of deserved it. I was... Were you mugged by Gilbert Griffin? Yes.

Yeah. I couldn't have taken him. He was tough in those days. But I was with a friend, my best friend, and we went to boarding school in the East Coast, and we were wearing our blazers looking for the Fillmore East at night. And we got lost and went in the other direction. And this kid, who may be a couple years older than us, a good deal bigger, managed to

mug us at the same time. He would, like, when he was holding one, he'd punch the other in the face, and then he'd switch off and punch the other in the face. And we would just get tossed back and forth. And I remember thinking, I totally deserve this. I mean, I'm looking at my little school blazer.

I would mug me. It's in New York that's so gone. I know. You know, and those clubs and Danceteria and the Ritz and all of that, that whole world just vanished. And speaking of that, like, I mean, movies is where we see old New York now. Yeah, yeah. And you worked with the top New York director.

I mean, aside from Scorsese. Lumet. Yes. Yeah, one of our favorites. You know, that was such an incredible learning experience to see him.

And also, about New York, by coincidence, having no idea we'd be talking about him, I actually saw over the weekend a documentary about him. So there were all these things

I didn't, I'd totally forgotten. The Wiz was shot at the World Trade Center, at the base of the World Trade Center. It's like I got chills looking at that. And then, you know, and when, and Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. That was a good one. That's a movie made by, that could have been made by a young man. Absolutely. That's like the Hungry Cone Brothers movie.

Yep, yep. You know, and Sidney was in his early 80s when he did that. I mean, that's the most vital, violent. Yep, it's a good one. Oh, my God. They're all good. That's one of those movies I remember I knew nothing about it, and within the first 10 seconds, I'm hooked.

Totally. And it's like you got to see what's going to happen each second. Yeah, absolutely. And I couldn't believe that he directed that at his age. You know, and he was a, which he would talk about too, which I appreciated. You know, he was a kid actor in Yiddish theater. And, you know, as I said, I live in the village. I live right across the street from, well, the corner was where the 2nd Avenue Deli used to be.

But across the street is, I think, a movie theater now, like Cinema Village or something. But it used to be one of the great Yiddish theaters. And the building I'm in is where all the great Yiddish playwrights and actors and everyone lived. It was like the Chateau Marmont for Yiddish players. And Sidney would talk in this documentary about being a kid in this area,

in the East Village, in the coffee shops and the bars and the theaters that were around. It was just an incredible world. And that's where he got his – he came out of theater. So when he rehearses and makes a movie, he does something that no one else before or since I've ever seen do. It's also out of live television. He gets the exact dimensions of what the set's going to be. He puts down tape in an open rehearsal space and you rehearse with the actors

for like two weeks. So by the time you're shooting, everybody's off book and it's one, no more than two takes. Ron Silver once said, Sidney, I can do this in less than a take. He just needed, Sidney, I can do this in less than a take. He just needed, you know, everybody was so totally prepared. So in Running on Empty, what a lot of people think is the best scene, the most sort of emotional, when Christine Lottie sees her father while he's underground, while she's been underground all this time um they did that scene in one take about that they had two cameras they filmed it maybe two but he was like they got it in one and uh and everyone knew when you read the script here we come on the scene here we come and it was like one of those things where everybody was so excited for the scene to play that you know people i've never

the crew was more attentive than normal you know and people came to just watch quietly and it was over about it was over before it began yeah and i remember they always used to say the real star of a Scorsese film is New York. Yeah. You could say that about a lot of Lumet pictures. Yeah, for sure. But Gilbert likes Bye Bye Braverman, which we've talked about, which is one of the lesser known Lumet entries. That's right. I know.

I saw that. Yeah. Pawnbroker. You go back and you look at that body of work. Oh, and Prince of the City. Prince of the City was just amazing just great yeah

and even the one you should have Treat in the show by the way the one Treat Williams we should have oh yes

yes here in New York we should he is between New York and we should have him shooting

but he's here a lot we should have him that's a favorite of Gilbert's too yeah oh yeah I love that movie

yeah me too yeah these are movies that come on and you can't. I've heard you describe Strange Love and Ace in the Hole as movies like that. Like, you're going to be late for dinner if they're on. You're going to be late for dinner. But I think that's true of a lot of those Lumet pictures. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. And even Q&A. I mean, ones that people don't talk about as much. Look at how he got Nick Nolte to give one of the bravest goddamn performances ever. Yeah. Yeah. And we've talked about it, and it's a movie that they use that term ahead of its time with so many movies, but really is ahead of its time, is Ace in the Hole. Yeah.

Yeah. Facing the hole. Yeah, yeah. Because it touches upon that whole idea. You know, you take tragedy or a big news story and the press, you know, makes it into a big publicity. And they perversely, they can't help it. They want that kid to be dead. Yeah. Yes.

It's going to, it'll pay for the paper. You know, it's just like, and you're down there and you're pretending you give a shit and, you know, it's just all newsmen just vying. And it really is like that. I mean, when I saw the movie,

I never, it's not a very well-known movie, Wilders, and I forget how I came across it. It was some time ago. And it took my breath away how cynical it was. And also funny. It's kind of my sense of humor.

And then years go by. That's how I know that this is the case. My mother lived in Nogales, it's right on the border of Mexico. She was raised there, and she went there for the end of her life. And my brother was staying with her, and he went for a hike, and it's a very rugged country, and he went to this national park, and he climbed a mountain, and he disappeared. Disappeared for five days, and it became a huge media event.

Wow. Because of the – my dad was covering the OJ trial, and it was during that time. And Judge Ito would say, we know Mr. Dunn is – we wish him the best. We know his son is missing. Mr. Dunn is – we wish him the best. We know his son is missing. And what happened was – I mean I flew out the minute it happened before the press arrived. And matter of fact, the guy we were with, my friend Charlie Wessler, hired the pilot who was the helicopter pilot who did the OJ chase.

So we had this guy flying over the terrain where Alex would have been. And then we saw his car in the parking lot. And the moment we called that in, news trucks, these special units for the police, these special units for the police, these enormous RVs, communication centers, mules, dogs. Everything just started to come into this one – under this parking lot in the middle of nowhere. And then crowds, the looky-loos and the thing. And it just built and built and built. And it was like – I just kept going. Ace in the hole.

Every – it was exactly like Ace in the Hole. How strange. Life is imitating art. Also, the movie was also released as The Big Carnival. Yeah, they changed the title. Oh, that's right, that's right. And, of course, in the movie, it's so strange. It's like a carnival is built around the area where this guy, a coal miner, is dying in the mountain.

And it's like they're making money. They're selling shirts. And Wilder was a reporter. So he knew that world. He knew what he was writing about. And it was a very unpopular film. I can imagine. I remember hearing that people actually just hated it because it was just so ugly for them to see.

It was like, people go, why did you make that movie? And Kurt Douglas is a scumbag in it. A total scumbag. I think he produced it, too. I think he did. He liked playing those parts. Played the bad and the beautiful. He played the stimulus.

Oh, my God. I think he was attracted to those kind of anti-heroes. He liked playing those parts. Played the bad and the beautiful. He played some of us. Oh, my God. I think he was attracted to those kind of anti-heroes. Yes, it was a great movie. And it just reminds me of a story. I think I was doing an interview for CNN or something, and they said, oh, we don't know if we can get to you yet because there's a plane, the news story,

there's a plane that's out of control in the sky they said they don't know if the the pilot died but the plane is moving erratically in the sky and so i'm waiting there backstage and they keep going no is still following the story of the plane and then this woman runs backstage excited, and she goes, great news. The plane crashed. Unbelievable. I actually remember that. They became overcome by some sort of fumes in this thing, and it was a jet, a private jet, and it just flew until it ran out of good news.

Yeah. Sometimes wilder cynicism worked. Yeah. Like the mix was right in things like Sunset Boulevard. Oh, absolutely. And other times, like in Kiss Me Stupid, audiences rejected it. They rejected it. That he went too far.

Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast right after this. That's what you say. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, three car me and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade a michelin star with golden globe and emmy wins the show starring jeremy allen white io debris and maddie matheson is ready to heat up screens once again all new episodes of fx's the bear are streaming june 27 only on disney plus at mila our partner is planet. Our appliances use less water and energy and are tested to last for 20 years of use. That's the ultimate form of sustainability.

I'm Nelson Fresco, President of Miele Canada. From now until June 30th, every Miele dishwasher purchased supports the planting and preservation of Canadian forests through the Miele Forest Initiative. Join us in making an impact today for a better tomorrow. Visit Miele.ca to learn more. Hi, I'm Rosanna Arquette, and you're here listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal Podcast. We now return to Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Podcast. Okay, well, I have to get to the thing I brought up with a million guests so far. Oh, prepare yourself for this, Griffin.

Okay. This is his theory about Billy Wilder. Okay. You may not be Scorsese's favorite comedian after this. Billy Wilder, you know, he also directed, of course, Sunset Boulevard, where Gloria Swanson's the old, old silent screen Hollywood star. And at the beginning starts off with a funeral for a chimpanzee. and they said that the direction that wilder gave to gloria swanson was remember you are fucking the chimpanzee and and according to this discussion i had with of old people, Jackie, the joke man. It must be true.

We've discussed it several times that there's a story that rich women back then used to have trained chimpanzees to perform carnalingus on them. Widows, I would imagine. Yeah. Well, I'd hate for their husbands. I have never heard that. To be having to wait in the yard. But it does make sense why the chimp had such an emotional impact. Yes.

Why would she? Well, it could have just been an attachment to a pet, Gilbert. No. No, there had to have been a chemistry that was unspoken. A love that has no name. He had an expression, Billy Wilder, whenever he saw someone who looked like they were really in the dumps, he used to go,

What's the matter? You look like you just saw your rough cut. Oh, that's funny. someone who looked like they were really in the dumps. He used to go, What's the matter? You look like you just saw your rough cut. Oh, that's funny. Oh, wow. And Wilder was one of those people at the house when you were a kid, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him I did get to know as an adult.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And loved him. Wow. He was funny, as we all know. He was still showing up for work every day. He'd go to that office in Beverly Hills in his 90s. Absolutely. He was right around the corner from Mr. Chow's and he'd have lunch

at Mr. Chow's every day. And he would say, you know, no one comes to see me. I mean, don't give me any awards. Give me a job. And he was kind of taking it back, except for people like Cameron Crowe. Sure, it's a great book. Very few people took advantage of him. There was a great, I'm having a moment here, a brain moment. A moment here, a brain moment.

The editor of Bonnie and Clyde and, oh, shit, I can think of Thelma Schumacher, but that's not it. Not Verna Fields. No, no. A woman or a man? Woman, woman, elderly woman. She won the Academy Award twice. Oh, I should know this. I should know this. I should too. Because, anyway,

she was given an honorary position at, you know, to be the advisor at Warner Brothers. And, and Dina,

what the hell is the matter? Anyway, at the time, of course, I knew her name because she was so damn famous. We'll have our researchers working on it.

Our crack team is working on it. And, and she, anyway, so damn famous. We'll have our researchers working on it. Our crack team is working on it. And she... Anyway, I called her up when I did the very first movie. Dee Dee Allen.

Thank you. Oh, my brain. Also Red. Killing me. She edited Red. Look at that. Zonya is the internet magician. Nice work, Zonya.

Thank you, baby. Thank you. And Paul is the internet magician. Nice work, Sonia. Thank you, baby. Thank you. And Paul is taking a nap. Our researcher dozed. Yeah, there you go. So, but anyway, I call her up, and I said, Miss Allen, my name's Griffin Dunn. I'm about to direct my first feature film for Warner Brothers, And I understand you're on the lot. And I just want to know when I'm ready, I'd love you to be one of the first people

to ever see my rough cut. She goes, what's your name? I went, Gryffindor. And she goes, you know, I've been here for over a year. You're the first director to ever call me. I went, well, I don't know what to tell you. And when I got my rough well, I don't know what to tell you. And when I got my rough cut, I indeed did.

She flew to New York and stayed in the editing room with us. And it was just such an incredible honor to have her be so jazzed. And at that time, I used to edit at night. And that was my editor, Beth Kling. We finally fixed this problem. And it was around four in the morning, this problem that had been haunting us throughout the thing. And she said, should we call Dina?

Didi? Should we call? It's four in the morning. Yeah, that's a terrible idea. Let's call her. And I said, yeah, we fixed the thing in the real four. She goes, I'll be right over.

And the hotel was like two blocks from the Brill Building where we were cutting. And she was that kind of a person. That's great. That's great. I'm glad you brought up Addicted to Love. We had worked with Pollack. You had worked with Lumet. Were you picking up a little bit from all of these guys?

Because obviously you have a taste for the black comedy, which is in your work. Yeah, I do. And I was, you know, kind of, there was something to learn from everyone. And Marty, obviously. Well, yeah. I mean, certainly Marty.

And I kind of always thought when I was producing with these extraordinary directors, even though I was there at the very, very beginning and responsible for actually the script that they signed on to do, for finding it or developing it, I always thought directing would be such an overwhelming achievement. I could never possibly do it. But when it actually came my turn sort of in life, I've never felt more comfortable in my whole life, you know, in a profession.

So, you know, I would nap during lunch because I remember I saw that's how Sidney gets his – I'd never eat lunch. I'd just go to my trailer and sleep for a half hour, totally, so I took that from him, and the kind of unpredictability of Marty, I would borrow from that, and Sidney would talk about how if you're not quite sure what you're doing, how you could stall, I never did this trick, but I always loved this story. When he wasn't sure what the first shot of the morning should be, he needed time to think.

He would point to where all the trucks had parked and go, we're going to be looking that way. Because then, they'd have to move all the trucks, which would take at least an hour. Very smart. So there was all these little tricks. Shrewd tricks all these things we had Matthew here by the way

we had Broderick Gilbert insulted him yes because I fucking hate Ferris Bueller's Day Off yeah wow he was a sporty role

yeah I like Matthew and I think he's a good actor I've never heard of such a thing but I fucking hate Ferris Bueller's Day Off. We just saw it on the plane. We looked at it again. And I was watching, and Sonia was looking at it with the headphones.

I was looking at it without. I didn't even need it. I'd seen the movie so many times. I knew the dialogue. What do you hate about Ferris Bueller's Day Off? The guy's a little prick. You thought he should have gone to school. You thought he lied.

No, I thought he should have gotten his ass kicked. I don't think it's the filmmaking he takes issue with, but the character. Yeah, no, I know. This is like the goody-goody critic. Like, oh no, he shouldn't have done that. But it's like when you watch the movie. The biggest villain's the principal.

And what's he doing? He's saying, oh, there's a kid who's constantly playing hooky, and I have to do something about it. He's a heroic figure. And Ferris Bueller's a fucking prick. Wow. And I hope you're listening to this, Matthew. Thank God.

He was so gracious about it. He was. He was very nice. You should do the remake and just have it be about the principal. Him going home to his wife. And he's such a good husband. Two movies, black comedies, election, speaking of Matthew,

and your picture, which is really, and this, we'll talk about American Werewolf in a minute, but I found parallels because you said a lot of films, critics don't know what to make of a film that's trying to be two things at once. Yeah. That's trying to be funny and that's trying to be dark. Addicted to love, by the way, my hat's off to you because this is dark.

Yeah. A studio picture as anybody's attempted to make. The darkest romantic comedy you could do. I know. I love Meg's performance, too. They're both so great. Both good. could do i know i i love meg's performance too i love they're both so good but uh you know it was like and you know meg um in preparation for that role you you know here you have the the the goddess

of romantic comedies in this role that kind of turned on its head you know and uh you know she And she read books like the darkest books about Schrenker was a concentration camp survivor. Oh, I know him. Bruno Bettelheim? Yes. She would read really heavy, heavy shit just to get the darkness in her face. Method. Yeah, it was good. It's a good movie.

And you mentioned Werewolf. That it was critically panned by the majority of papers. Because how dare it be two things. I went there to be scared. I don't want to be laughing. Yeah, that's what I mean. And, well, I'm sorry you made your laugh, but, you know, and it was a great tone. But you're attracted to that.

You're attracted to that kind of subject matter. Oh, yeah. And After Hours is another example. Yeah. Funny and really frightening. Yeah, I know. Genuinely. Genuine menace.

People in peril and people in pain are pretty funny. I don't see why everybody doesn't get that. Yeah. and people in pain are pretty funny. I don't see why everybody doesn't get that. Yeah. And one person who we'd like to have on this show, if he's listening,

and you worked with him, is the great makeup artist Rick Baker. Oh, yeah, yeah. He'd be a great guest to have. And Frank and I were talking about it that you are like a living corpse throughout the movie. And you keep, each time you pop up, you're more and more decomposing. And that this was very upsetting for you. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know what it was. When I first had the makeup on, I don't know what I expected. I don't know what it was. When I first had the makeup on, I don't know what I expected. But looking in the mirror and seeing what I would look like if I was violently murdered, it just had a really emotional thing for me. I don't know what it was.

I remember thinking, I hope my mother doesn't see this. I didn't have a sort of sense of humor having just established I've got a dark sense of humor. For some reason, I didn't about this. Interesting. When we were shooting in London, in Trafalgar Square, I had to walk from the hotel to the movie theater. And, you know, before then, people would, on the crew and different things, they wanted, when I was in the makeup, we were shooting at Twickenham, they wanted me to go into a bar, you know, in one of the pubs

and, like, just order a drink and just freak people out. And I wouldn't do it. And I just thought it would be kind of cruel. But walking from the hotel to the movie theater throughout this crowd of people, it was like people were really freaked out. I can imagine. And I didn't enjoy it.

I didn't enjoy freaking people out. I can imagine. And I didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy, like, freaking people out. I mean, it's exactly the opposite of, like, how you're supposed to be about Halloween. You're supposed to walk around and shock people and all. I don't know what it was. It's never been my, and to this, I'm not really a horror movie fan, to tell you the truth.

I did not enjoy scaring repulsing revolting other people or whatever it was I don't know why do you think people don't or studios you know the movie business why are these kind of

for lack of a better word black comedies dark comedies why are they so hard to do why are they so hard to pull off I know you're also a fan of Strange Love which is obviously

one of the granddaddies of that. I think walking that line is really, really tough for a lot of people. People either, when it's not done successfully, it's usually the director or the actors sort of give a little nod to, a little wink to the camera, whether they mean to or not, like, I'm kind of funny here, aren't I, seeing how serious I am? And it's not really played straight.

There have been so many movies that people say, oh, it's just, after hours, we just, after hours almost become an adjective for a kind of movie. And, you know, if it's not done right, it's like too outrageous. The circumstances are too over the top. So you kind of don't buy it.

And it's missing an element of anxiety. You still have to be anxious and the laughter still has to be a release. And if it's just laughter for dark circumstances, you've already shot your wad

in the first 15 minutes. And you've got nowhere to go. I think about movies of the 70s. I think about things like Where's Papa? I guess that was the 60s. Harold and Maude. They don't really attempt them anymore. Maybe Election, which is more of an indie

or off the studio path a little bit. After Hours, same thing. Those two movies, like Harold and Maude and Where's Papa, are in that category and you've discussed this, the category of films called the cult film.

And I heard you don't really like when one of your films, you've been in a few that have been called cult films, and you don't like it. I don't. You know, there's a book that three movies that Amy and I have produced or I've been in, and the really cute little title of this book is The Best Movies You've Never Heard Of. I don't want to be in that book.

Is Once Around in that book? Yeah, I think everything I've ever done is in that book. That's a good movie. No, hats off to you done is in that book. That's a good movie. No, hats off to you and Amy for that one and maybe it's you which we discussed

with Rosanna which people have to see. Absolutely. I know it had branded the music rights issues but it's so good. Yeah. It's so good.

You guys were young. I heard you talking to Eliana on her podcast. You said, we didn't even know what we were doing in the chilly scenes of winter. Best way to go. We went and chased down Ann Beattie wherever Liana on her podcast. You said, we didn't even know what we were doing. The chilly scenes of winter.

We went and chased down Ann Beattie wherever she was on campus somewhere. Good movies. You guys had an absolute instinct for picking things. Thanks. They should be films people know not to appear in that book. All right, here's one I want to ask you about. Where is the question that I had this is an American

werewolf question too about the makeup because Gilbert loves Rick Baker at one point you just sort of pulled it off your face and you said

you looked at Rick and he was going to cry yeah it was it was a bad moment you know it took I had to be on the set for like at four in the morning with Rick. Luckily, we adored each other.

So the company you keep in those times is very important. And then it would start at four in the morning for me to be on set by, you know, nine o'clock or something. You know, it would just take forever to put on. And you'd have to be very, very patient and zen. David too, both of you. Yeah, but he only had to do the transformation.

I was an everyday thing. And when the transformation was no small potatoes either. But you know, we would also, I think that the methods have improved since then, but the stuff that they glued on my face,

the acrylic or whatever it was, under the lights would shrink and pull on your skin, and it would really be uncomfortable. And then Rick would have to, like, come in and moisturize it up and loosen it up so I could breathe, so the skin could breathe and all that stuff. So after a 14-hour day, you know, I was in, it was, like, painful. You know, it was, like like somewhere between incredible discomfort and pain. And when we wrapped this one day, it was particularly tough.

Usually you take it off, Rick, so we'd have all the pieces. And it was all under with spearmint gum. And he'd have like a little brush. And he'd just scrape, little brush and he just scraped script script script script and it would take almost as long as it took to put it on it would take so long just to get all the glue off and to come out in one piece and one day I just I just couldn't take it anymore and I just grabbed the thing and I ripped it off my face and it felt so good to get it off until I saw

Rick's face and it was really like you, I took a dump on the Mona Lisa. You destroyed a great world. It was that look, and I swear I'd never do it again. Wow. I would imagine they've improved this kind of makeup. Apparently it's a completely different matter. We're going to get him on the show. We'll ask his point of view.

That makes me think I can only imagine in the classic horror movies that i was in love with like with karloff and cheney and legosi it's like what that makeup must have been because that was really primitive yeah you know um orchard yeah um um uh the frankenstein thing i mean that, that nearly killed him. Yeah. It would like, it discolored his skin and the pores, they couldn't breathe and it would take twice as long. It must have been incredible. Oh, you think back to The Wizard of Oz

and Buddy Epson having died from that metallic, the dust in the makeup. You know, I want to recommend too to our listeners to watch the American Werewolf in London commentary with you and David, which is so much fun. And I hadn't seen the movie in years. It's so much fun to revisit it. I mean, it really creates a world. And you were a kid. Yeah, sure was.

One of your first things. And most importantly, Jenny Agater. Oh, lovely. Was one of those actresses that didn't mind getting naked for movies. No. Yeah, so I'm. Getting your kid on. So she's one of my favorites. I know, I love her. Love her, love her.

She was great. We have to just, these are wild cards. Can we ask you one thing about Me and Him, the Talking Penis movie? Which, by the way, is hard to find. Thank God. Thank God. The weirdest career choice in history. You're a chance taker, yeah.

Well, you're a chance taker, Griffin. Very bold. You're a risk taker. Very, very bold. And I knew, first of all, it's based on a very, on Italy's most famous writer. Yes, I know. He also wrote The Conformist, one of the great Bertolucci movies. Very difficult subject matter.

Serious material about a man who talks to his penis. I get it. I get it. Directed by Doris Dory, who was very hot off a film called Men. Yeah. So there was a certain logic. I knew it was a little

risky. But I remember driving to the set of Running on Empty. And I'm on the George Washington Bridge. And it had just been announced about the movie and what it is. And I'm

listening to Howard Stern. And all of a sudden I'm driving on the thing on the bridge. And he goes, Griffin, Don is doing a movie called what it is. And I'm listening to Howard Stern. And all of a sudden, I'm driving on the thing on the bridge. And he goes, Griffin Dunn is doing a movie called Me and Him about a guy who talks to his penis. Who wants to see Griffin Dunn's penis? First of all, it's got to be really, really small.

It's got to be this. And he starts putting down my penis. And I almost lose control of the car. And I went, oh, this is only the beginning. Gilbert was not on that particular episode of Howard Stern Show. He would have ganged up on you. So you heard the Irwin Winkler episode. You know that Gilbert likes to ask about the flops.

So just one question about who's that girl. Which, by the way, I did some research. You got excellent notices. Everybody loved me. New York Times loved you. Chicago Trib loved you. Do you remember any of the horrible, horrible reviews of who's that girl?

I really I remember just that I got good reviews. Very good. Vincent Candy said you were the best thing in it. Yeah, I know. I got a lot of that. So I thought, I think it's time to make a movie about a guy who talks to his penis. Yeah.

Let me take all that goodwill and run with it. I'm friendly with the guy that wrote that original script, which was called Slammer. A guy named Andrew Smith. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He used to work at The View. Oh, really? Before me, Small World.

But he wrote the main event, the Streisand picture. So he dabbled in screenwriting. But that thing went through a lot of changes. I heard you say what you remember was the paparazzi, was how famous she was, and the chaos. Total chaos. I mean, we'd have to reloop scenes just because helicopters, you know, when we were shooting outdoors, you know, drowned out our dialogue. It was like we were shooting in front of Trump Tower on the day of the marathon. And the guy who the building is named after, this star fucker.

Oh, he's the president now, actually. Yeah. He came down because he heard Madonna was there for having his picture taken with Madonna and me. Not that he knew who I was, but there's a picture of him. So he's there, and the marathon is near. The finish line is not far away. And the word must have gotten around the runners that a Madonna was shooting. And people, they've only got like 500 yards of the finish line.

They stop running, and they come over to watch the shooting, drenched in sweat, like that kind of crazy look in their eye. And I was thinking, just finish the race. You just ran 24 miles. Finish the race and then come back and watch. But it was that kind of like zealotry that was wherever she'd go. You just blow off the finish line with the hope of seeing her. I watched the movie.

I do very, very deep research, as you can see. I see. Did you learn defense? This is like being on 60 Minutes. Did you learn to work with a sword? Yes, I worked with one of the great swordsmen in Hollywood at the time. He was, for my nose. Oh, Cyrano.

Cyrano. Yeah, yeah. My nose. Oh, Cyrano. Cyrano. Yeah. He was Ferrer's, Miguel Ferrer's father is how I know him. Jose. Jose.

Yes. He was Jose's coach. He did a lot of the great movies at the time. I could tell. Yes. You were quite good at it. I loved it. Okay, wild cards.

Do you want to tell us, first of all, as I was saying to you outside, we have to recommend the doc that you made about your aunt. Yes. Which we had in the intro, which is just lovely. Thank you. And, I mean, it's fascinating on so many levels. I mean, her connection to the Donner party that it opens with. She wrote that story when she was five years old or something

about the woman who dies in the desert. It's a fascinating movie. And you and Joan are the last of the Mohicans in this dynasty. Yeah, in the family, yeah. Really worth seeing. Oh, thanks. I'm very proud of it.

You should be. And she liked it a lot, too. It should be. And she liked it a lot, too. It was really nice to see how it affected people so deeply. People who didn't know her books kind of went out and got her books, and people who did, it just filled in all the information they were already hungry to know. So I was really glad at how it turned out.

Yeah, and interesting. It's full of surprises, like how that dialogue in that John Wayne movie affected her her whole life. Mm-hmm. Just a very interesting person. Yeah. And she wound up becoming, you know, she cataloged this big period of time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah, there was a, I was thinking of that when I was looking at the HBO How They See Us about Central Park Five. I haven't seen it yet, but she was involved in that, obviously.

And she wrote one of the, you know, defining pieces about the media. Yeah. And about the city. It's a great story about New York City at that time. And that cast an enormous amount of doubt on this.

Rather heroically, I might say, because it was not. And a lone voice. Yes, that's what I mean. If you remember that time period, there was really not a lot of people running around saying, I think those kids are innocent. It's a very sweet film, and people need to see it. And the documentary about your dad after the party, which I know you didn't make, is fascinating. Yeah.

Yeah, a fascinating life. Do you want to ask Griffin about the first movie he saw in a movie theater? I was just going to ask that. Unbelievable. Because it's your favorite. Oh, fuck, I was just going to ask that. Tell us the first movie you saw in a theater. I can tell you, but I can't tell you who's in it, and I can tell you the scene movie you saw in a theater I can tell you but I can't tell

I can tell you who's in it and I can tell you the scene that I remember but I don't know the title we can do it it was a Jerry Lewis movie he'll know that's why I bring it up

okay and it's a he put an entire pack of cigarettes in his mouth and smoked the cigarettes in the whole pack and I must have been around five or something.

I fell down laughing so hard. I thought it was the funniest thing I ever saw. And for some reason, I want to think he's in a space. He's in a space capsule. There was that one. Oh, God. You know it, Gil. Oh, there was that one he did with Dick Shawn.

No, it's not Way, Way Out. No, not Way, Way Out. It's the one based on the Gore Vidal story. Oh, a little visit to a little planet. A small planet. Visit to a small planet. That's based on a Gore Vidal story? Can you believe that?

Yes. Jesus. Yes. That, I didn't know. I know, that's a head-turner. Yeah, so that's a movie. It was basically like the original Mork and Mindy, where he learns about the earth. That's right.

So he was like a Martian, and that's why he was smoking cigarettes, because that's what he thought. Yeah. Got it. But then Griffin met him later in life, and he wasn't very nice to him. Oh, surprise, surprise. I don't mean to devastate you. Yeah. Because he was always nice to Gil.

See, Jerry Lewis is one of those people I can use the classic line, well, he was always nice to Gil. See, Jerry Lewis is one of those people I can use the classic line, well, he was always nice to me. I bet he loves you. Before we get out of here, what do you want to plug? I mean, there's so much good stuff, and you're in all kinds. I heard you say something about how independent film isn't what it used to be, and making independent films kind of breaks your heart, and now a lot of that is in television?

Yeah, exactly. And you're in all these hit shows, all these smart shows, Romanoff's and Succession and the Pamela Adlon show. Yeah. I'm actually doing now, oddly, a network show, which I haven't done in a very long time. oddly, a network show, which I haven't done in a very long time.

But it's an incredible part that kind of came my way to be in a family member in This Is Us. Yes. And I'm playing, for those of you who can't see what I look like, I look about 30, 31. He does. But I'm playing a guy who's,

I played 75 in one section, 80s in the other. It's another makeup gig. It's all right. Well, the 70s is not enough makeup, but for later, yeah. So anyway, I'm doing that. I'm going to leave for L.A. to start shooting that in the end of July.

And you're in the new Wes Anderson. Yes. That's great. That was the most for L.A. to start shooting that at the end of July. And you're in the new Wes Anderson. Yes. That's great. That was the most fun ever. Wow. And here's something I brought up. We've discussed a few times on this show. Like today, on the way over here, I was on the Upper East Side,

and I saw a movie marquee, and I remember thinking, a movie theater, what's that? Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's like vaudeville movie theaters. Do you know the Upper East Side at all? I do. Near me, since I moved back here from L.A. in 2003, which isn't that long ago, I've watched, I think, six theaters shut down?

Shut down, no, I know. 86th Street Theater just shut down. Did it really? The one between 3rd. I know just the one you mean. And 2nd Avenue or 3rd and Lex. Wasn't that like, that had a bunch of theaters? Yeah, it was a fourplex.

Gone. Oh, what a bummer. They're disappearing at a record rate. Wow. I just went to a movie theater, and I realized how long it had been. This weekend, we went to see The Dead Don't Die at a movie theater. I have a house in upstate New York, and there's a little movie theater up there. And it was so nice to sit and watch a movie with a bunch of strangers.

And I thought, how weird. Especially a comedy. It's like something I'm noticing that we just took for granted. You think it's on the way out? Or we're just tentpole movies? I think, you know, it's hard to say. I certainly hope not. But, you know, entertainment has been confronted with so many tragedies and crises from, you know,

the birth of television is going to ruin the movies and talkies are going to ruin the silence. You know, I mean, it was like, it's constantly evolving as technology evolves, as audiences evolve. You know, it's hard to say. I think people will always still be drawn to the humanity aspect. I hope so. But the idea of, like of growing up and going, hey, we're sitting around.

Let's see a movie. I think that's gone. You grew up in Brooklyn, right? Yeah. Neighborhood theaters. I grew up in Ozone Park in Queens. Double features, I remember. Right, right, right.

Yeah. I used to go see the Planet of the Apes movies five in a day. Yeah. In succession. In the old Frost movies five in a day in succession in the old Cross Bay Theater in Queens which is now a Modell's a lot of that is disappearing and from Manhattan too

no I didn't know about 86th Street what a bummer it's gone alright what else do you want to plug I'm all plugged out I want to tell people to see this I Love Dick on Amazon. You can see that for the rest of your life.

That's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like the name of the Talking Penis movie. I'm just saying they're not related. I still have such PTSD from making the Talking Penis movie that I called. I still have such PTSD from making the Talking Penis movie that I called, I couldn't really say the name of the series once it was going,

so I would call it I'm Terribly Fond of Richard. Great actors, boy. Yeah, I know. It was a gas. You and Bacon. I loved it. And Catherine Hans. Catherine Hans. The three of us had so much fun.

Brave performances, all of you. And Catherine Hans. Catherine Hans. The three of us had so much fun. Brave performances, all of you. Incredible. Yeah. So I'm just going to tell people, if our listeners haven't seen After Hours by this point in the show, almost 200 episodes in, Oh, yes. a shame on you.

But see, baby, it's you. Griffin's movie, Addicted to Love, the documentary, the Joan Didion documentary, which is great. We didn't even talk about Practical Magic. I suspect you're a Harry Nielsen fan. I certainly am. Yes.

I wanted them to be dancing to that one. Yeah, and Panic in Needle Park, which is another family project. Yeah, that my dad produced and aunt and uncle wrote. Yeah, people need to see this stuff. You need to write a book, my friend.

All right. Well, this is good practice., people need to see this stuff. You need to write a book, my friend. All right. Well, this is good practice. And people need to read up on the cunnilingus chimpanzees in old Hollywood. You're going to get to the bottom of that. And you work with a monkey in Addicted to Love. Yeah, let me tell you one quick thing about that monkey. Yeah. I was.

You look terrifying. The Hot Zone, you remember that monkey. Yeah. I was... The Hot Zone. You remember that movie? Sure. So, here we have like movie stars in Addicted to Love.

Yeah. It's the first day of shooting. You'd think we'd all be... Everyone was so excited because we got the monkey from the Hot Zone. And it was like, there's the monkey

and the monkey is there. And we're like, oh, and we're all catering to the monkey. We're so excited. First take of my first feature action the monkey was supposed to jump from one shoulder onto somebody else's shoulder the monkey jumps onto the shoulder jumps off the shoulder runs up fifth

avenue we stopped shooting for two hours. They got a fire truck to take that fucking monkey out of 34th Street and bring him back to the set. I hate that monkey. That actor's terrific, by the way, that Turkish actor whose name escapes me. Yeah, Chucky Carrier. Really funny. One of the greats. Good movie.

Gil, man has a life he's got to get back to. Okay, so you're going to be doing a sequel to the Talking Dick movie about a cunnilingus monkey. Okay. That's my next project.

Anyway, this has been Gilbert Godfrey. Yeah, I'm Gilbert Godfrey. Are been Gilbert. Yeah, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and I can't get a fucking ticket to a Martin Scorsese movie. So fuck you, Martin Scorsese. Come here and suck my dick. Come here and talk to my dick.

Okay? Talk to my fucking cock, Martin Scorsese. That just may get him here. Yes. And we've been... And I've been sitting here with Frank Santopadre, who has spoken to my dick a few times. No trade secrets.

Yes. And we've been talking to the great Griffin Dunn. Griffin, thanks, man. Well, thank you. Don't go around tonight, let's bomb and take your life Yeah, the bad moon on the right Hope you got your things together Hope you aren't quite prepared to die Looks like we're in for nasty weather One eye is taking for an eye Well, don't come around tonight

It's bound to take your life There's a bad moon on the rise Don't come around tonight well it's bound to take your life there's a bad moon on the right Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals Special audio contributions by John Beach Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn