Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 274. Robert Wuhl Returns

Episode Date: August 26, 2019

Gilbert and Frank welcome back one of their most popular guests, comedian and actor Robert Wuhl, who holds court on a variety of subjects, including bad biopics, overrated film classics, the real story of Ty Cobb and the 30th anniversary of Tim Burton's "Batman." Also, Jack Nicholson hatches a plan, Ward Bond tangles with Martin Landau, John Ford takes on Cecil B.DeMille and Robert remembers his friends Joe Bologna, Bruno Kirby and Trey Wilson. PLUS: "The Babe Ruth Story"! The villainy of Frank Fay! The cinema of Michael Ritchie! Neil Simon teams with Peter Sellers! And Robert reprises his Oscar voting rules! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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PC makes any culinary adventure an on-budget breeze. Hey, hey Mo, you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Colossal Terrific Podcast. Why don't you say mammy? hi this is gilbert godfrey this is gilbert, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verderosa.

Our guest this week is returning to the podcast, his second visit, because Frank and I, as well as our listeners, had so much fun with him the first time. He's a comedian, Emmy-winning comedy writer, occasional podcaster, producer, show business historian, and an actor with dozens of TV and feature film credits. As a writer, he's scripted everything from the cult series Police Squad to Oscar telecasts. And as a performer, he's appeared in hit TV shows like Everybody Hates Chris, Tales from the Crypt, Blue Bloods, Boston Legal, and American Dad, and was both the star and creator of his own long-running series, the award-winning sports comedy Arliss. But he's perhaps best known for his memorable work in the feature films Hollywood Night's Mistress, Cobb, Blaze, Good Morning Vietnam, and Bull Durham, and Tim Burton's Batman. Now, celebrating its 30th anniversary in a career spanning five decades, he's worked with everyone from Robert De Niro to Madonna to Jack Nicholson

and hung out with everyone from Martin Landau to Sean Connery to Robin Williams. Please welcome to the show an artist of many talents and a man who isn't afraid to share his opinions on anything and everything, the always shy and retiring Robert Wall. Well, thank you, Gilly. That was great. I guess all the five decades now, I met you when I started, so you're old. I know. You guys actually remember meeting?

You remember the moment? I don't know the exact moment. Would it have been the improv? It had to be the improv or the comic strip, one or the other. Yeah. I mean, yeah. That's seven years, the improv or the comic strip. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. In the 70s, assumedly. Oh, yeah.

That's scary. And a couple of times when I went out to LA, I stayed in your house. That's right. That's right. We go back a long time. It's good to see. Good to talk to you. Did he replace what he ate, Robert, when he stayed?

No, no, no, no, no. Gilbert's great. Gilbert's great. All these stories about Gilbert, they're all half true. You want to tell Robert what you had in mind for him? Oh. Yeah. Well, we just had on Neil Sedaka.

Cool. Yeah, great story. Neil Sedaka sang his haftura and uh so somebody tweeted me that every guest from now on should have to sing their haftura can you do that for us now no i can only sing the second haftura yeah no i couldn couldn't. You know, I couldn't do it. Wait, I couldn't do it at my bar mitzvah. It's a true story. I used to cut Hebrew school all the time. I hated it. So every time they would drop us off, I would, me and a friend would usually walk in the door and then walk right back out as soon as the car left to drop this off. And we'd go to the local

IHOP and have breakfast and everything and eat and go walk around town. And then we'd show up to be picked up. Now comes my bar mitzvah, about two, three weeks, I tell everybody, you know, I can't speak a word of Hebrew. And they go, no, no, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. And I said, well, I don't know how I'm going to be fine. I can't speak a word of this stuff. And so they realized with a week to go that I can't speak a word of this stuff. So I said, listen, here's what you want to do. Just spell it out phonetically, B-A-W-R-U-C-H, Baruch. I said, I can do, I'll memorize that. And no, no, no, you'll be fine. So I said, now two days before the bar mitzvah, they realized I can't speak a word of Hebrew. So they finally spell it all out for me. I memorize it, and I go through the actions, like I'm giving Hamlet soliloquy.

And afterwards, they said, oh, my God, you read so beautifully. And then so I got through that. And then you had to give in my temple, which was a Reformed temple. It was so Reformed, it was actually Catholic. had to give in my temple, which was a Reformed temple. It was so Reformed, it was actually Catholic. But to get bar mitzvahed and not kill the party that your parents spent all this money for, I had to somewhere in my speech say that I would go on to confirmation, you know, whatever that meant.

And I didn't want to spend an extra day in Hebrew school more than I had to. So the rabbi comes up to me afterwards and said, oh, you did such a great job. And I'm so proud to see that you are going to go on to confirmation. And I looked him straight in the eye and said, you know, rabbi, I am prone to lie. And I never set foot in the temple again after that day. Wow. Yeah, well, it's a rite of passage for your parents. You know why Gilbert can't recite his Haftorah, Robert? Why?

Because? No, I was never bar mitzvahed. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, your parents saved a lot of money. I know. By the way, if you ever want to see a terrific movie, I think it's called 1960.

I think that's what it's called. It's a British comedy starring Eddie, what is his name? Eddie Redmayne? No, no, no, no. This is much, he's a character actor. It's actually, Eddie, he's usually the sidekick in something like that. It's killing me. British actor?

Yes, yes. You saw him a thousand times. And Helena Bonham Carter, which is the first time I saw her being funny, plays his wife. And it's about this kid in 1960s London, middle class family, who is about to have his bar mitzvah. His older brother has had a bar mitzvah. And he got the big one with the party and everything. Well, unfortunately for him, his father's going through bad business times. And they keep cutting back on his bar mitzvah and he got the big one with the party and everything. Well, unfortunately for him, his father's going through bad business times and they keep cutting back on his bar mitzvah and it's hysterical. And worse of all, it's 1960 and should the London national team,

it's in the world cup. And should it get to the finals, it's the same day as his bar mitzvah. And sure enough, that's what, it's a wonderful, wonderful little film. It's not Eddie, what is his name? It's not Eddie Izzard. It's Eddie, okay, maybe it'll come to me later. Okay.

What's it called, 1960? I think it's called 1960. 1960. I think it's called that. Your Oscar rant last time you were here, Robert, was very well received. Oh, about the kids?

By our listeners. Yeah. Gilbert and I were going over the roof. Tell us again. It's going to happen again with the kids from Once Upon a Time in America, I guarantee you. Tell us again who you will not vote for. Well, I just have a guide. I have a guide because I believe that you have to, now I got to explain my take on the

whole Academy Awards. Now, I'm a proud member of the Academy, and the awards is just one part of it. They have all these great, you know, symposiums and the library and everything else, and that's the real great part of the Academy. And you're a writer of past Oscar shows. Yes, I am. Yeah. And so I have great respect for that. But as Tommy Lee Jones said one time, it's the world's greatest trade show. And he's right. And he's right. It's you know it's that this is a thing that goes out worldwide to show this is our product this is who we are and we're going to reward people now i am not of the opinion that it's not a lifetime achievement award i totally believe it's a lifetime achievement award and i will back that up by saying when the first line of your obituary

is written the moment you win win an Oscar or more times even nominated for an Oscar, that's a lifetime achievement award. And my friend from the New York Times, Richard Sandemir, who now writes obituaries, I said, what's your first line? He goes, your biggest achievement. I said, so if somebody wins the Academy Award, he goes, that's absolutely. So it is a lifetime achievement award. And so my whole thing is, it is about business. achievement award. And so my whole thing is, it is about business and I respect business. And there's certain things about it that I will vote for. Well, first of all, I vote for my friends. That's first and foremost. And here's why, here's why, because it is a business and I want my friends to do well in business. I do not believe that my father used to say,

how come, who was not in show business, used to say, how come, who was not in show business, used to say, how come somebody can be the best actor this year and he's not the best actor next year? Did he forget how to act? I said, he goes, I'll tell you what, if everybody plays the same part, I'll tell you who the best actor is. And I would say, dad, not even then, because people could have different interpretations. So the fact that we're judging Oscars, it was like, what do you used to do? You wouldn't do it because you didn't think artists could compete. So the fact is everybody's playing a different part. If you're nominated, you're good. Let's just take it at that. So if my friend is nominated, I'm voting for them. I want them to have hospitalization the rest of their life. I want their families to do well. I'd like

to see them move out of an apartment and into a house. So that's just nature because it is a business. And these things are worth money, as Tommy Lee Jones would say. Those golden statues are worth money. And if you get a nomination, you will work the rest of your life. You may not become a star, but you will work the rest of your life.

So I do want my friends to do well. So that's my first criteria. Number two, no kids under any circumstances. No kids. Again, because I respect the art form. And there's too many people who have paid their dues and have worked in shitty roles and in shitty clubs and have gone on shitty cattle calls for years and years and years. And to see some six-year-old get a nominee or a 10-year-old.

I remember a couple of years ago, I'm at a function, one of these luncheons, you know, which is a lobbying thing. Remember, there's been, remember these Oscars, people spend, studio spends tens of millions of dollars to get these nominations and wins because they're worth it to them at the box office.

They're not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. So I remember there was a movie called The Beasts of the Southern Wild. Yeah. And I'm sitting next to the part, next to the six-year-old girl, and everybody's talking about how brilliant she is in Oscar nominations, and I'm watching her on a Game Boy.

Do you know she's playing with her Game Boy? And I'm saying, are you people fucking crazy? You're going to vote for this girl and take an Oscar away from a 65-year-old actress, which is usually who they take it away from, a 40, 50, 60-year-old. Sure. I said,

this is not going to happen. I'm a big believer. Also, no first-timers. No rookies. I will not, under any circumstances. I believe in the old Bill Parcells,

coach of the Giants, who used to say, can they win a few games before we put them in the Hall of Fame? Do you know, it's like you see one, you know, Sandra Locke got an Oscar nomination

her first time out. She did. Case closed. Do you know how many times we've seen somebody, it's like, so, no, I believe it is for a body of work. Yes. You know, so those are my pretty much, but the kid thing, not on a million years. What about no Jennifers? That was, you were strong on that one.

Well, there was a lot of Jennifers, right, for a while. There was Jennifer Hudson. There was Jennifer, who's the one who was in A Beautiful Mind? Yeah, Jennifer Connelly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jennifer Holiday. Yeah, Jennifer Holiday, Jennifer Hudson. Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, it was all Jennifers. And by the way, they're all young. You ever notice that? In fact, if I'm not wrong, in the last like 30 years, 25, 30 years, there's only been about three women under 35 who've won an Oscar. I think, you know, you count Meryl Streep, the woman who won last year for the favorite. And I think Judi Dench and Helen Mirren, everybody else.

And I'm talking about best actress, best supporting actress is under like 25, 30. Of course, most of the parts are written for them too. Yeah, interesting. Well, this is a question for both of you guys. What do, most of the parts are written for them too. Yeah, interesting. This is a question for both of you guys. What do you think of the Oscars without a host? I thought it was fine. Yeah? I thought it was fine.

Here's the problem. What do you think, Gilly? What'd you think? Yeah, I think it's just as boring as the ones with the host. You're indifferent. Well, here's the thing. When I got to work with Billy the first few years, the one thing we were respectful of at that time

was that you're the host of the Oscars. It's not your show. It's not the Billy Crystal show. It's not the David Letterman show. It's the Academy Awards. You're there. So we'd back up. We'd make sure we can kill with the monologue.

Do your first six eight minutes the first 10 minutes of the show is yours after that get out of the way don't do bits everybody now started that's the billy did it too they all start stop the show and do bits and it's like what the fuck nobody cares about going next door to the movie theater and giving everybody popcorn or getting pizza it's like got to remember something else about that crowd. When you're in the Oscars, most of those people have to, the Oscars, let's say, started like,

what did they start at? Five o'clock here. That means that since two o'clock in the afternoon, probably earlier, these people in the audience have been getting ready. They've spent thousands of dollars to get ready for this thing because most of them, the studio don't buy tickets for, unless you're an actor or a director.

The other ones, you have to pay for yourself. And then they got to pay for their gowns and they got to pay for their limos they got to pay for everything else so it costs about five ten grand to go to this thing now they get there at about three o'clock because you got to be there two hours early and they have not eaten right so they sitting there the show starts at five o'clock so now they've been there about two hours before the show starts and they're hungry and they gotta go to the bathroom and you have to remember

with each category, four out of the five nominees have lost and they're not in a real big mood to hear jokes. You could tell. You know, that goes with every category,

every single one. So by the time your show's a third over, a third of the audience hates your guts. They wanna be out of there. They got to go to the bathroom. They got to get something to eat.

They're not really happy that much. And so you start doing bits. You're stopping the show to do a funny comedy bit. It's not your show. Remember the shit Letterman caught for doing stupid pet tricks and top 10 lists? Well, he's not alone. He's not alone.

I mean, you had selfies. You had somebody giving out pizzas. You had Jimmy Kimmel going next door to the movie theater and stopping the show there. It's like the people in the audience are saying, fuck you, I want to get out of here. I'm like, you're the next goddamn award here, for God's sakes. And always, each year, the biggest complaint is that it went on too long.

Yeah, I wonder why. Yeah. Why? Why? Now, by law, what's interesting is by contractual, this is something I learned from Bruce Valanche. A lot of these countries around the world, if they have it in their contract that there has to be X amount of minutes

of musical entertainment, which is why the songs had to be in sometimes. Oh, I never knew that. That's interesting. Well, it's usually a production number or a song or something like that. Wow. I don't know if that still holds today, but it used to. The other thing, too, about the Oscar ballot now, here's something that has nothing to do with the show.

It's done with the voting. When you get an Oscar ballot, I don't know if you've ever seen one, you vote, you nominate in your own category. I'm in the actor's category. So everybody votes, nominates the best picture, and everybody votes for their own category. The only names, I mean, proper names that are on an Oscar ballot are in the acting categories.

Everything else is strictly the picture. It would say best writing for original medium, and it might say Roma, Green Book, you know, something else, you know, Black Panther. It never gives any of the people's names, direction. It'll say Roma. You know, it does not any of the people's names, direction. It'll say Roma. It does not say Martin Scorsese. It doesn't say Quentin Tarantino.

Nowhere is anybody's name on the ballot except for the actors. Now, so that's when you say, how did this person lose 10 times? Because her name is never on the ballot, number one. Number two is, in the last couple of years, they've gone to this system, which is, I find, a little disturbing, or maybe, maybe the last couple of years, they've gone to this system, which is, I find, a little disturbing, or maybe people like it better. You vote for one in every category. You check off one of the five names or six names, four names, whatever it is, except for best picture. In best picture, you have to vote one through nine, one through ten.

And what, so like if you like the picture best, maybe you voted, you voted number one. If you voted for the less, it goes number 10. And this has hurt. I really believe, uh, the T I have no doubt in my mind that the last few movies that got the most amount of first place votes did not win the Oscar because you had people, I'll just take two examples, La La Land and Roma. La La Land and Roma won every other award that night except Best Picture because the people who liked La La Land and Roma voted it one. The people who hated it voted it 10. So you have movies that got the most second-place votes, third-place votes that beat them.

And there's not a doubt in my mind that's what's happened. That is interesting. And I definitely didn't know that the foreign rule about having to have so much musical entertainment in the show. Because the first thing

that occurs to you every year is get rid of the songs. You'll shorten the show. Yeah, but it's also tough because of the certain branches of the academy. They got their lobbying groups like anybody else.

Sure, sure. And so you got that problem. And basically, yeah, they should cut from the, if you're talking about getting a better TV broadcast, you have to cut all these crafts awards. I mean, does anybody care who wins best short subject, animated or short subject? Does anybody care who, I mean, or best costume design

of a short film that's done in Sweden? I mean, nobody cares about those awards. To be fair, the Grammys have 50,000 categories. They show 10 on TV. Yeah, right. You know, so, but there is, you know, they do lobby for themselves, and I can understand the lobbying for them. Well, that's where the two things, as you say,

are sort of crashing into each other, an entertainment show and a trade show. Right. And an industry show. Well, it's a trade show either way. Yeah. It's a trade show either way. Yeah, pretty much. Tommy Lee's right. By the way, and show. Well, it's a trade show either way. Yeah. It's a trade show either way. Yeah, pretty much. Tommy Lee's right.

By the way, and I support that. I support that, by the way. And you were saying how the award show got formed in the first place. Oh, it was to keep the unions out. It was to keep the unions out. The Academy didn't want the different guilds to form. And they came out to this whole, they had a banquet at the Roosevelt Hotel. And Louis B. Mayer and everybody said,

you don't, the Academy, we will take care of our own. You don't have to form a writer's guild. You don't have to form a director's guild. You don't have, we will take care of you. And then at the end of the night, the last 15, 20 minutes, they gave out these awards. And he realized that all these stars were showing up. And he said, you know, if you give them medals,

the stars show up for anything. So that's how it started. Sneaky shit. Yeah. On the subject of Tommy Lee, who you brought up, I want to ask you about Cobb, which is also celebrating an anniversary, 25 years. How did you, and I know you, that Ron Shelton says

you gave a famously bad audition for Bull Durham. Yes. What was, did he right hand you the Al Stump part? Did you have to audition again? No, that was mine. We had talked about it when we shot Bull Durham and then I was in Blaze with him and then he went off to make

White Men Can't Jump, which was a big hit and that gave him the clout to do Cobb and pick whoever he wanted to be in it. I like Blaze a lot too. That's nice. Thank you. I'll tell Ron. Yeah. I mean, a lot too. Yeah. Well, that's nice. Thank you. I'll tell Ron. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting movie because a lot of what Stump wrote was what?

Later discredited? No. Or it was claimed that he exaggerated some things to sell books. I mean, watching the film, I mean, the film works so well on its own merits. But then I read all of these conflicting stories about what was true about cob what wasn't true about cob well about about two or three years some guy writes a book with the help of the cob family debunking everything that i'll and anything that i'll stop that forget i'll stop for a second debunking everything bad about ty cop his whole career and everything and how all the stories about him are not true. And then he said, these are all because of Al Stump.

Now, Al Stump doesn't meet Ty Cobb until 1960. So everything that happened before Al Stump met him about this guy being a bastard and a prick and a Klansman and throwing games for money and spiking people and everybody else before 1960 lied. Everybody else. Because Al Stump doesn't meet him until 1960. Right, right. That's a great point.

This guy retires in 1930 or something like that. And then it's interesting, recently, about five years ago, there was an audio tape discovered about Lou Gehrig giving an interview. And on it, he's talking about the great ballplayers of all time. And he talks about Babe Ruth. And he talks about Walter Johnson.. He talks about Ty Cobb. And he talks about what a jerk he was. So this is Lou Gehrig talking out. So suddenly the guy blames Al Stump for everything. I see.

So, you know, it sold some books, but you know, how come no one, no one's ever, you know, in the first, here's a story in the first Hall of Fame class, which is another story, the Hall of Fame is that, you know, whenever I hear about this guy took this and this guy did that and this guy shouldn't be in and this guy. Let me explain that the first guy they voted in was Ty Cobb, who was a racist, a bigot, threw games for money, went into the stands and beat up a quadriplegic who was helping him. Yes. He may have killed a man, wife beater. and this was the first guy they put in the hall of fame so whenever i hear this holier than thou morality clause i get a little kick out of it but interestingly enough cobb would not take the picture if you see the picture of the first class in the hall of fame cobb wouldn't take it because he didn't like some of the guys who they voted in

with so al stump i don't know if al stump was even born then when i was taking interesting so you know it's all revisionist history and that guy had to sell some books and by the way with the help of the Cobb family right so it might have been

yeah so it might have been revisionist history because the family had to give their yeah had to give their okay which is you know

everybody does revisionist history if you want to see revisionist history go see Once Upon a Time in America in Hollywood Gilbert would like to ask you about Jewish players oh yeah he's interested in Hank Greenberg Everybody does Revisionist History. If you want to see Revisionist History, go see Once Upon a Time in America. In Hollywood. Gilbert would like to ask you about Jewish players. Oh, yes.

He's interested in Hank Greenberg in Art Facts. Sure, sure. And Rod Carew. That's right. Now, the famous thing about the Oscars, and that is we all know these, there are certain roles and certain movies that the Academy just gets an erection about. Oh, you mean the gimp factor? Yeah, the gimp or a beautiful actress being ugly.

Yeah, or a Holocaust movie. Yeah. Holocaust is tough to beat at the Oscars. You know? Or the Emmys. Well, AIDS is tough to beat at the Oscars. You know? Or the Emmys. Well, AIDS is tough to beat at the Tonys. You know? You've got to play, you know, it's like,

there are certain categories that are tough to beat. You know, so not because they're not worthy, it's just tough to beat. Yes, I remember a time, my partner on Arliss, Mike Tolan, had produced the Hank Aaron documentary, Chasing the Dream. Oh, that's a good movie. Yeah, and he was up for the Oscar. And he was up against the Anne Frank film.

They had found a new documentary, and they actually found footage of Anne Frank. And they had her waving out the window and everything. And it's legit. So he was up against that. Now, the night of the Oscars, Mike told me that Hank Aaron came up to him and he said, and he had, you know, these athletes are competitive. And he said, Michael, I saw that Anne Frank film. You know, that story has been told before, you know, so, you know that story's been told before you know so you know of course he's not wrong but the Anne Frank movie won do you know so that's a tough one but you're right of course it's an out there was a year when every Oscar nominee

one year was an alcoholic it was a year Albert Finney was up for under the volcano and I think it was uh Paul Newman was playing oh and the verdict I. And I think it was Paul Newman was playing- Oh, and The Verdict. I think The Verdict. It was like every single actor in the category played an alcohol. That's interesting. Every single one of them. People like that. The hardest thing to do is comedy. And that's why for years I was lobbying for getting a category for best comedy, because it's a different animal. It's a totally different animal. And I said, you know, come on, they give out best animated film. They got best documentary. Why don't you

give out best comedies? And Tom Sherrick, the great, he was a former, he was the president of the Academy at the time and a legendary vice president of distribution and marketing at 20th Century Fox said, Robert, I a hundred percent agree with you. And from a marketing and distribution standpoint, it's great because it allows me to put on a poster and nominate for best comedy. And he says, but the Academy will never do it. And you know why? And I said, I know why. It's because the Golden Globes do it.

He says, that's exactly right. Oh, interesting. And I said, I don't care where a good idea comes from. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea. Now, interestingly, Ron Howard has been a favor of this. know i don't care where a good idea comes from if it's a good idea it's a good idea now interestingly ron howard has been in favor of this even harvey weinstein in his day was in favor of this a lot of people are in favor of this but the academy because because the golden gloves do it the academy won't do it because you can count on one hand the the number of oscar-winning comedic

performances in the last 25 years kevin whatline. What about films? What about films? Well, Annie Hall and what? What's since Annie Hall? That was 77. Well, Shakespeare in Love. Shakespeare in Love was a comedy. But that's about it. That's about it.

And then that makes all these comedians in movies want to do their really pretentious dramatic film. Well, you want to play Disraeli, don't you, Gil? Oh, yeah. Don't you want to do a serious role, Gil? Well, yeah. In fact, I saw this. It's Walt Disraeli. Going off of Cobb again, Robert,

because you're a big movie buff. Why are biopics so hard to do well, in your opinion? I saw a great one, by the way. Did you see Love and Mercy? it's a few years old just see love and mercy the brian wilson movie i did very well done for half of it oh you didn't like you only liked the younger half the younger half yeah i didn't like the old i didn't like the old i mean and you you know you've been in a couple of good ones what why is it uh But Cobb did not make any money. Cobb was a tremendous failure.

I remember playing golf one time. I mean, Cobb bombed the box office. Now, because of the MLB network and cable, it's getting a second life and people are catching on to it. And it's finding a good cult audience. But I remember one time I was playing at the Lexus Challenge Golf Tournament, which was a celebrity golf tournament for NBC. And I was playing with Sean Connery in a foursome with Sean Connery. And Connery was walking with me and he goes,

you did that movie Cobb? I said, yes. He goes, I liked that movie. He goes, and I'll tell you why I didn't do well. You want to know why? And I said, yeah. He goes, because it showed what it takes to be great. And Americans don't want to see what it takes to be great.

And I said, well, that's interesting. I got to tell you, but it bombed in the UK too, you know, you should know that. That's interesting. Sean Connery is a cop fan. Yeah, yeah.

Because it was about, you know, tough guy. I mean, you're looking, I was looking today, I mean, Raging Bull. I mean, well, you're in Good Morning Vietnam, which is pseudo biography. It's about Adrian Cronauer. Good Morning Vietnam, which is a pseudo-biography.

It's about Adrian Cronauer. Yeah, okay. Based on a true story. That's right. Yes. That's right. But there's so few of them. Did you see the Queen movie, the Freddie Mercury?

Yes. What'd you think? It's okay. Why do you think that so many of them are half-baked or hard to do well well wait wait but see but i said i thought it was okay but it's a tremendously successful movie true i mean the the guy put on a pair of buck teeth lip syncs and wins an oscar okay the uh you know to me to me to me that's kind of like uh you did a movie by Gene Kelly, but you didn't dance. So, but that said, he's good.

But that did very well. I said, and also the Elton John movie, I liked it. I liked it too. I liked it too. Yeah. But people, well, that's a different thing because that's jukebox musicals. Yeah. And people like the music.

Good point. I mean, yeah, they took liberties. The fact in the Freddie Mercury movie that when he does the Wembley Stadium thing for live aid, he didn't even know he had AIDS at that time. He isn't that old five years later. Oh, yeah. They mess with the— Well, they all do. I mean, look at Argo.

Argo, right? I liked Argo. Terrific piece of entertainment. But the whole third act never happened. That whole scene at the airport never happened. That's all Hollywood. Well, it's so ridiculous in Argo that they have to stop the plane and they use rifles and blast the door open. Wouldn't that have stopped old planes from leaving at that point? And wouldn't it have stopped the plane if an army car was chasing after it

um again it didn't happen so what difference yeah it's like yeah it's a movie it was a good third act it worked you know it's a lot of time uh you know it's the old line billy wilder don't give me truth or logic give me emotion so uh hollywood's not in the truth it's not in the history business i know you're a wilder guy too. Hollywood is in the entertainment business. They made two movies about, historically, about Thomas Edison.

One is Young Thomas Edison with Mickey Rooney, and the other one was Edison the Man with Spencer Tracy. And in both of them, they kind of, they portray Edison

as this kind of a vuncular, absent-minded, good-natured guy. Edison was a motherfucker.cular, absent-minded, good-natured guy. Edison was a motherfucker. Edison was the most ruthless businessman that ever lived. Edison once hooked the— You know, Edison was in the AC-DC wars when he was up against Westinghouse,

who owned the patent on the DC, and Edison had AC, or vice versa, forgive me. Whichever won, Edison tried to crush Westinghouse. And how he did it was there was an elephant named Topsy. I was going to mention the elephant. Oh, I know this. Have you seen this? Yeah, sure.

You've seen it. Well, Edison, who helped invent the electric chair, by the way, hooked up the Westinghouse's electricity. And in fact, he tried to copyright the term Westinghoused to mean electrocuted. It didn't happen. But he hooked up Westinghouse's electricity so they could euthanize the elephant. You'll see it on YouTube.

The elephant gets, you see it burning up in smoke and dropping dead. Horrible. And Edison filmed it with his movie cameras to show in his movie theaters. Now, Hollywood is not in the history business. You're not going to see mickey rooney or spencer tracy electrocute an elephant you know christopher walken maybe you know christopher

walken is edison and i remember there was one year i think one of it was the english patient right and the other one was like three days in Tibet or whatever the hell. Seven years. Seven years in Tibet. And both, they found out in real life, both those guys were Nazis. Uh-huh. I didn't know that. Yeah. And, you know, that they conveniently.

Well, look at A Beautiful Mind. Yes. I mean, that Russell Crowe movie, they whitewashed this guy's story yeah he was a you know he was gay and a homophobe anti-semitic he impregnated when he was a class teacher he impregnated one of his students and has never paid a penny of child support and they gave this best picture so maybe the whitewashing is partially the answer to why so many biopics don't work. And I heard that in A Dolphin's Tale, where Morgan Freeman is the brilliant doctor who comes in, they said it was actually two Scottish doctors

that made the tale. Well, that's interesting, because I've also heard that Finding Nemo, you know, Nemo was not really animated. It's a real fish. And the fish lobby just isn't very strong, you know? Here's a bad biopic that I've heard you talk about, Robert. The Babe Ruth story.

One Gilbert and I love to talk about it. Love it. Love that movie. William Bendix? Yes. Oh, come on. It doesn't get any better than that. I mean, the guy's 50 and he's in school.

And he doesn't know how to swing a bat. Oh, forget that. By the way, as bad as it is, it's better than the John Goodman version. Oh, I've never seen that one. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's really bad. One Arthur Hiller made. Not because of John.

Not because of John. John's a great actor. But, baby, it's hysterical. I mean, it's just you can't stop tears come down your face but by the way and that's part this whole thing now there's no bigger baseball fan in america than me but part of the charm and the romance of baseball where they get into the hall of fame stuff is because we've grown up on a bunch of movies that you know made baseball you know and i like i said there's no bigger baseball fan than I am. Yeah, we know.

Sure. But we've done that. I mean, my friend Jeffrey Lyons, his favorite movie is Field of Dreams. And it wasn't until I pointed out to him, I said, yeah, I like the movie a lot, except when James Earl Jones gives this speech at the end of the movie, and he says, Ray, it's about baseball, Ray. Because baseball reminds us of all that was once good in America and can be good again. And I'm sitting there saying, wait a minute.

If it reminds us of all that was good, how about the fact that you couldn't play until 1947 and that everybody was coming out from behind that fence was all white? Like, how are we missing this? Good point. And it's funny how many people never thought about that. And Jeffrey says, I never thought about that, but it's still a great movie.

You know, it's like, yes, it is, but come on. You know, that's a little bit, you got to do that. Did you ever see a movie about the Negro Leagues? You must have seen it because you're the big baseball guy. Bingo Long? Yeah, Bingo Long, John Badham's movie. Bingo Long's a fun movie. Yeah.

Fun movie, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Bingo Long traveling, oh, James Earl Jones, there you go. Yes, it is. In fact, I'll see movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Big old long traveling. Oh, James Earl Jones. There you go. Yes, it is. In fact, I'll see Billy Dee Williams when I'm at Chiller Theater. I'm going to be. Gilly, have you done any of these comic books?

Oh, yes. Yes. I did one, and I'm going to do another one. I'll take, because of the 30th anniversary of Batman, that's my only connection. But it's a good one. I had a really good time, and I'm going to do Chiller Theater. I'm doing another one in Mohegan Sun in a couple of weeks. And Billy Dee Williams will be there.

So I haven't seen Billy Dee since Batman. Oh, you're doing the Terrificon. Yeah, I am. Yeah. I am. And I haven't seen Billy since Batman. So I'm looking forward to seeing him there. Well, tell him we loved him in Bingo Long, which is a movie more people should know about.

Yes, they should. And the other one that they made for HBO, I think, was called Soul of the Game. That's it. Also excellent with Delroy Lindo. You know, the most underappreciated, when people talk about the best baseball movies of all time, of course, it's subjective totally. But the one I think is the most underappreciated one of all time is the original Bad News Bears, which I think is a great movie.

It's very good. And it's about America. It's not just about, you know, the problem in most sports films, as Ron Shelton and I would talk about, is they're always told from the point of view of the fan. Do you know? And the fan only cares about one thing. Does the team win or lose?

That's it. They don't care how you did it, how you got there. They want the rah-rah. The best, and it's always about the big game. The big game. Ron would tell you, there's no big games. You know, The best, and it's always about the big game. The big game. Ron would tell you, there's no big games. You know, once in a blue,

there's no big games. If you think of the best sports movies, Raging Bull, Bang the Drum Slowly, The Hustler, Requiem for a Heavyweight, there's not about a big game. There's not about a big,

Bull Durham, I'll put Bull Durham in that category. It should be. It's not about a big game. There's a great movie about baseball called Sugar that was out about 10 years ago. That was a great movie. And you'd swear it was a documentary, but it's not. Yeah, I saw you recommend that. I got to catch up to that. It's a great movie about these kids who come over from the Dominican Republic. They don't speak English and they're suddenly in a minor league team in Iowa. And how do they deal with that?

And it's not easy. That's a terrific film. Gilbert likes Bang the Drum Slowly. Yeah. Yeah, you've recommended it on this show. Yeah, I've always been a fan of that one. Gilly, you'll love this story then. Bang the Drum Slowly is Danny Aiello's first movie. Yeah.

I think it's, maybe it's The Godfather, then Bang the Drum Slowly or something like that. Or Godfather 2. And Danny could play ball. Danny knows baseball. But he gets there the first day. And if you remember, Vincent Gardenia plays the manager of the team. Okay?

He pulls Danny aside. As they go on the field, they go, Danny, which one's third base? Fantastic. Are you ready? Wait. Code it. He's nominated for an Academy Award. I'm going to do it.

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This genius treat is only a DQ for a limited time. DQ. Happy tastes good. It's Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Podcast! You told a great story the last time you were here

about when it was during the House of Un-American Activities and Cecil B. DeMille. Yes, very famous story. Yeah. Can you tell that story? Oh, that's a great one. I was at a wedding this last week and one of the people at the wedding who's a close friend of the grooms, which was the best wedding I've ever been to. I got to tell you, this guy, my friend Tom Todteroff was up in connecticut who's one of the great acting teachers in america and around the world he got married to his longtime girlfriend and he

had it on his property and it turns out that jose feliciano lives a mile away and he comes over and sings four songs wow it was very and the cow sills are friends wow so they got up and sang it was really cool. But anyway, he went to school at Juilliard with Alexander Payne, the filmmaker. And Alexander and I were talking about great films. And I mentioned the story again about the famous, I think it's 1952, 53, it might be off on the year, the famous DGA meeting where this is during the Hollywood, you know, this is during the Blacklist and this is during the House Un-American Activities Committee.

And Cecil B. DeMille wanted everyone to sign a loyalty oath. And Herman Mankiewicz, I think it's Joe Mankiewicz maybe. Joe Mankiewicz was on the opposite side totally. Joe Mankiewicz, of course, did all about Eve and a lot of great movies. And there was a big fight about this thing. And Cecil B. DeMille was leading the way. In fact, the famous scene where he wrote down, who are the people who are against this?

And he said, it's Billy Valder. It's William Viler. It's Fred Zinnemann. Do you know, he laid on this thick accent to make his point. And the evening was going his way until finally a voice, you know, a hand came up in the back, and they called him. He stood up, and he goes, my name's Jack Ford. I make Westerns. Now, everybody knew John Ford.

I mean, he's John Ford. He had six, he had 110 Academy Awards with him. And he said, you know, CB, you know more about moviemaking than anybody else in this room. In fact, you know more about putting people in seats than anyone else in this room. But I don't like what I'm hearing from you. And I say we go with Mankiewicz. Now, what makes this amazing is that John Ford was part of a troop of Victor McLaughlin, Ward Bond, who if you look under anti-Semite in the dictionary, there's Ward Bond's body.

Yeah. He didn't like liberals either. Oh, no, no. He was the worst. John Wayne was there, but the difference with John Wayne was John Wayne would respect you

if you disagreed with him and stood up to him. He won't agree with you, but he was, I mean, he became close friends with Katharine Hepburn, with Geraldine Page did a movie with him

and got her only Oscar nomination for many years, got her first Oscar nomination. So John Wayne, but Ward Bond was one of the great anti-Semites of all time. In fact, Martin Landau told me a story that he was guested on Wagon Train and Ward Bond, he was a New York actor and he was a scene where Ward Bond came up to him and he was supposed to, you know, he's supposed to punch him in the face. Well, of course they staged it and you know, missus and cam's time to shoot it ward bond slugs martin landau just cold cocks him and they said oh i'm so sorry so okay let's get one more landau said fuck you you know it's like ward bond was

about to work but victor mcgloglin ward, you know, that whole crew was the John Ford crew. And for John Ford to take this stance was unbelievable. So that shows you never quite know with certain people how they're going to go. That's a good story. And I love that interview with Landau you did, by the way, on your podcast. Oh, he was a great guy.

Kind of so facto. He actually sponsored me. I was doing Mistress, and he he and deniro actually signed my card and sponsored me into the academy very nice wow yeah that's a nice interview you did with him and our listeners should check it out and the story about him calling james dean's girlfriend um to to inform her of his death is a fascinating story well they were buddies there's no question he has he had an album i mean they were acting school buddies. And he had his picture album, Marty. And you'd see all these pictures of James Dean there.

On the subject of anti-Semites, Gil, who was it? They were telling us Walter Brennan was the big guy. Big time. Oh, yeah. That's what we heard. Oh, and also, you know who else told me? Andy Devine, I heard. Yes, yes.

Andy Devine was an anti-Semite. Now, Charles Durning, who's one of the great human beings of all time, and Charles Durning not only was a World War II vet, he was one of the soldiers who opened up the camps. He was one of the guys there. And didn't talk about it. And he told me a story about Ned Beatty going off on the Jews. Yeah. And so that's his first tan. And he was there.

And Charlie, who would not, after seeing the camp, would not tolerate any kind of bigotry or hate. He almost went after Ted Beatty. They had to hold him back. Beatty denies the story. I'm sorry. I'll believe Charlie. I trust Charlie. Gilbert's making a list.

You hit your anti-Semite list. Another one was this character actor, Eugene Paulette. Yes, yes! I heard about him too! Now, do you know who Frank Fay was? Yes, yes, yes! Frank Fay is generally credited with

being the first stand-up comic, although Will Rogers might take issue with that. But he was a monologist. Bob Hope says he learned a lot from him. Frank Fay was also the biggest megalomaniac that ever lived. And a megalomaniac to the biggest degree. The famous story was, who has the biggest prick in Hollywood? And the answer was Barbara Stanwyck, because she was married to Frank Fay. And in fact, that was her first husband husband and many people say that the story of a star is born is based on the relationship between frank fay and barbara stanley because she was a nothing and he

was a huge star now however he was such an anti-semite such an anti-semite and pro-nazi and everything else that it basically killed his career. But the craziest thing is, if you look up Google, look up Friends of Frank Fay, which was a rally at Madison Square Garden, the old Madison Square Garden. It's a Nazi rally in 1946. In 46. Friends of Frank Fay, it's named.

Incredible. Frank Fay was a huge, he blamed the Jews for everything. But interestingly enough, he blamed them for hurting his career. But interestingly enough, he got his huge break later in the great Antoinette Perry, who's the namesake of the Tony Awards, Antoinette Perry. She produced a play called Harvey, and the guy she picked to play the lead, Elwood P. Dowd on Broadway, was Frank Fay. And Frank Fay was pissed that he lost the movie role to Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart, Elwood P. Dowd on Broadway, was Frank Fay. And Frank Fay was pissed that he lost the movie role to Jimmy Stewart. But Frank Fay, here's a great story of Frank Fay. You'll love this, Gilbert. There was a thing where he was deposed. He had to go on trial for,

I don't know what the reason was. And his lawyer said, Frank, do me a favor. Don't let your ego go crazy here. Just downplay everything. Don't let them think you're this favor. Don't let your ego go crazy here. You know, just downplay everything. You know, don't let them think you're this, you know, just don't let your ego lead you in this thing. And he goes, absolutely. He's sworn in. They say, what is your name? He goes, Frank Faye.

What is your occupation? World's greatest entertainer. The lawyer nearly shits. He doesn't say anything. When he gets off the stand, he turns to Frank and goes, what the fuck was that? And Frank looked at him and he goes, I was under oath. That's fantastic. Are you familiar with Cliff Nesterov's book, The Comedians, Robert?

I don't think so. We've got to send you a copy of it. It's good Frank Faye stories. Both you and Gil were on Osborne show. We're on the Essentials. Yes. What did you pick? Well, I don't know if I was on the Essentials.

I was a guest. Oh, you were a guest. Yeah, I was a guest programmer. The three movies I picked was the Ernst Lubitsch, To Be or Not To Be. Oh, yeah. Great choice. With Jack Benny, Carol Lombard. One of my favorite Westerns, The Big Country with Charlton Heston

and Gregory Peck and Gregory Peck. Martin Landau told me a great story about Gregory Peck. He goes, great guy, don't let him near a comedy. Was he ever in a comedy?

Oh yeah, a few. You know, it's like Roman Holiday. That's a light, yeah, light. But he told me,

he told me, well, I'll come back and I'll finish the story. Yeah. He was doing Porkchop Hill, yeah, light. But he told, well, I'll come back, well, I'll finish the story. Yeah. He was doing Porkchop Hill, Marty, one of his first movies, about 1958 or so, doing Porkchop Hill,

and Lewis Millstone was directing it, who had directed All Quiet on the Western Front, and they're lining up this big battle scene, and it's taking about an hour, and meanwhile, Landau and a couple of guys are in the trenches, you know, and they're sitting in a trench, and to pass the time, he goes to Greg and he goes, Greg.

He goes, yeah, what? He goes, did you know that 80% of most degenerates are hard? And he goes, what? He goes, hard of hearing. And Greg goes, good one, good one. And so then as they're going, Marty notices Greg is rehearsing the joke. Did you know? And he's watching them.

He finally, after about 10 minutes after rehearsing, goes up to Lewis Millstone. Millstone feels him on his shoulder and says, Greg, is something wrong? He goes, Millie, did you know that 80% of all degenerates are hard of hearing? Shit. And he walked away. He said, great guy. Don't let him near a comedy. Pretty funny in the voice from Brazil, though.

By the way, the other picture that I chose, only because I didn't want to take, you know, I didn't want to take Casablanca or something like that, you know. The other one I took was I wanted something that I thought the audience, I said, let me get a little bit offbeat. I said, when I grew up, when I was in college in the 70s, there were three, during that period, there were three filmmakers, I think, that really were holding a mirror up to America

and showing a different side of it. And to me, they were Hal Ashby, Robert Altman, and Michael Ritchie. And I said, and Michael Ritchie did a movie called Smile. Sure. We know that one. Which is about beauty pageants. And it's very much of its time. It's very much, it's not going to be for everybody.

But I remember watching this and I started, this helped form my satiric point of view about playing something straight and it being really funny. And so that was the other movie I showed was Smile. Good choice. We had Bruce Dern and Barbara Felden. Yeah, we had two. Yeah. Yeah.

But he made Downhill Racer and The Candidate. I mean, you see somebody that— He had a run. Yeah, he did. Downhill Racer, The Candidate, and The Bad News Bears in a row. Yeah. And then from there, it goes straight downhill. Except,

I mean, he made a lot of bad movies, except the only thing that ever came near it was he did a movie for HBO about the Texas cheerleader mom. Oh, yeah, the Holly Hunter one.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, that's good. That's like old Michael Ritchie. Yeah. But I think he just was in a hock for a lot of money. Ashby had a good run, too.

Ashby had a great run. Now, what, what are some- What movies did you pick, Gilbert? What movies did you pick? run, too. Ashby was great. Had a great run. Now, what... What movies did you pick, Gilbert? What movies did you pick? Oh, okay. I picked Freaks. That was the one by Todd Browning. Sure, sure.

That's a certain thing. The Conversation. Good movie. The Original of Mice and Men. The one with Lon Chaney Jr.? Also Lewis Millstone, I think. Yeah, also Lewis Millstone. Yes, yes. movie the original of mice and men the one with lon chaney jr also lewis millstone i think yeah also yes yes and the swimmer with burt lancaster burt lancaster you know who's in that joan rivers is in yes yes yes very good yeah very good well the cults those are good those are offbeat movies

it's funny that they're out of the they didn't we didn't really pick any comedy well i guess to be or not to be all Oh, smile, too. I'm wrong about that. Yeah, I remember when the guy was talking about mine. They said they were shocked that I didn't pick any comedies. You didn't pick any comedies when we started doing those movie recommendations on the show. And never recommended a comedy. No, you went something like 16 weeks.

Boys from Brazil, Mr. Klein. Bobby? Yeah, B.R.G. Robinson movies. Yeah, man, man. Hello, Bobby. Yeah. weeks boys from brazil yeah mr klein bobby yeah bbg robinson movies yeah yeah a great thing about that podcast uh your podcast robert as i was saying the bookings the joe bologna episode two another guy we missed out on here not only land out two guys we were trying to get what what a joy to hear the two of you guys talking baseball and brooklyn baseball oh he was great joe bologna was a great guy. He started out as a director, you know, he was a director of commercials and then he and Renee, you know, then they started, wasn't it great him talking about

lovers and other strangers and how they screw, you know, he, you know, it's like the guy didn't realize what the hell was funny. You know, well, you know, Gilly, you know what I watched about two, three weeks ago after the Fox. Ah! There you go. After the Fox was on. Ba-bam-bam, ba-bam-bam, ba-bam-bam, ba-bam-bam. It's so good. It's so good. Who is the Fox?

I am the Fox. I am the Fox. Who are you? I am the Fox. I am me. But, you know, until we talked about it, did you know it was Neil Simon? Yeah. But, you know, until we talked about it, did you know it was Neil Simon? Yeah, it was Neil Simon wrote it and Victorio De Sica directed it. I spoke with Neil Simon about it one time.

And he said that, he says, never let anybody direct a comedy who doesn't speak the language that you're in. That's a good piece of advice. He said, yeah, because he had no idea. But what he'd do is he would turn to Sellers, and he'd go, is that funny? And Sellers would say, yes. Because that is their stuff in that movie that is just. And the most underappreciated performance in the history of comedy.

Oh, wait. By Victor Mature as Tony Powell. Yeah, Victor Mature's daughter is on Facebook, and she listens to this podcast. And she got very excited when she heard you guys singing the After the Fox theme on your last episode. Oh, it's Backrack. It's another Backrack song. And I thought Martin Boltsom was very funny.

I recently did a play reading with his wife, with his daughter. Oh, yeah. I talked about Marty, and I talked about After the Fox. Akim Tamirov is great in that. Oh, yes. And I talked about Marty, and I talked about After the Fox. Akim Tamirov is great in that. Oh, yes. It's a great cast. But Victor Mature, when I got to meet him, Gil, I was at a charity golf tournament. Frank Sinatra used to have a charity golf tournament, and Victor Mature played in it.

And I came up to him. I said, I want to talk to you about one movie. And he said, After the Fox. I said, yes. And the same thing, Robert Stack was also at that tournament. And I said, I want to talk to you about one movie. He goes, To Be or Not to Be. I said, yes. That's funny. said after the fox i said yes and the same thing robert stack was also at that tournament and i said i want to talk to you about one movie goes to be or not to be i said yes that's funny well it's the same way when i met james garner now james garner they by the way both these guys

know garner we all play cards at norby's house that's where i met united meet land i met him at mistress but joe bologna and all these guys it was a card game a dollar norby walters just to explain to our listeners yeah yeah dorby walters isters is an old-time agent. And now he holds like a dollar card game. And every old actor plays in this game. Brian Cranston plays and Jimmy Woods and a couple other guys too. But mostly it's all of us old guys. I'm the kid there. Peter Marshall played the other day. Peter Marshall is 93 years old. Yeah, and sharp. And sharp as a tack.

And you know how, Gilbert, we talk about stories and you say, well, this guy worked with Jack Nicholson. And this guy worked with Martin Landau. Or this guy once saw Jack Benny and stuff like that. You know who he was telling stories about? I was with Jason Alexander. He's saying, you know, I remember when I saw Jolson, and we sat, and Jason and I looked at each other, Jolson?

You saw Jolson? He's like, holy shit. He talked about how Jack Benny ripped off a bit of his, he ripped the, you know, he was a part of a comedy team, Noonan and Marshall. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. And he talked about how he did a – and that Jack Benny ripped them off.

And he did it. And Benny came to him later and says, I did your routine. I just wanted you to know. You know, it's like – thanks, Jack. You know, it's like – he did it in London or anything. We have Peter on here. So I got all these guys from the card game. That's where they came from and stuff like that.

Was Eli Wallach in that card game too? No. Eli's an East Coast guy. He's an East Coast guy. He was a great man though. Yeah, where they came from and stuff like that. Was Eli Wallach in that card game too? No. Eli's an East Coast guy. He's an East Coast guy. He was a great man though. Yeah, I know you worked with him on Mistress. Mistress was the best acting class of my life. I mean, because it was Tribeca's first film.

It was their first film. And Barry Primus, the writer-director who cast me, he was very good friends with De Niro. And he'd been trying to get this movie made for many years. And they picked me. And Bette Midler had a little something to say in it because she had seen me at her clubs a couple times. She was very helpful to me, and so I auditioned a couple of times. And I got into a fight with Barry, and he liked that.

So he cast me, but listen, it was De Niro, Danny Aiello, Eli Wallach, Christopher Walken, Martin Landau, Gene Smart, Laurie Metcalf played my wife, Cheryl Lee Ralph. I mean, you're talking, it was the best acting class I ever had in my life. And it's a movie people should see. Yeah, it's a good movie. We got to talk about Batman, Robert. It's 30 years. Yeah, it sure is. Yeah, it's a good movie. We got to talk about Batman, Robert. It's 30 years. Yeah, it sure is.

Yeah, what do you want to know? I mean, I saw a couple interviews with you giving credit to the great Marion Doherty, for starters. Yes. Oh, yeah. Without her, I'm not in the movie. Marion was great to me. I was very fortunate. Marion was a fan of mine.

I mean, she brought me in. Gilly, you know that I auditioned for George Roy Hill for Garp? Wow! To play the lead? Yeah. Wow! Yeah, they went with this Williams kid. Did you know Gilbert lost a role to Billy Barty, Robert? No, I did not. Yes, I had

an audition with Mel Brooks for one of his classic comedies, Life Stinks. Yes, yes yes yes of course i know the film and uh and and i lost out to billy bardy yeah well that's mel that's old hollywood you know yeah yes but but the williams kid had no talent that i never mind yeah the uh hey here's something I wanted to ask you. With what movies that are universally accepted as great movies do you not like or you respect but don't enjoy? Oh, good question. First one that comes to mind is 2001.

Yes! 2001, I respect totally and it bores the shit out of me. You know, any movie that's got Cure du Lait for two and a half hours, it's tough. In fact, the famous story was that after that movie, Cure du Lait went on to do the Italian job,

and with Noel Coward. And when Noel Coward was asked, what do you think of, you know, coming off of 2001, what do you think of Cure du Lait? His answer was, Cure du Lait gone tomorrow. That's hip. Do you know, coming off of 2001, what do you think of Keir Dullea? His answer was, Keir Dullea gone tomorrow. That's hip.

Do you know, I don't remember who the movie critic was, but he said, 2001 is a great movie. It's just not a very good movie. Well, again, it's personal taste. I mean, I find it boring. I mean, people, but I respect, I'll tell you another one. Okay.

I don't, this one I like, but I just, Raging Bull. Raging Bull to me. Interesting. Is a great piece of filmmaking about a very uninteresting subject. I don't find Jake Lamont a very interesting, you know, a very intriguing

subject, but it's a great piece of filmmaking. So I don't think I'd put that quite in the same class. No, I mean, I don't like 2001. I will actually sit and watch Raging Bull and, you know, and I get into it. You know, it's a movie I didn't like at first much, and I've grown to love, and I've seen it more and more times. King of comedy. I didn't like it the first time I saw it that much. That's a tough one. You know, and I've grown to like it more and more times. King of comedy. I didn't like it the first time I saw it that much. That's a tough one. You know, and I've grown to like it more and more and more. It's another anti-hero, a little bit like LaMotta. Yeah, I think Roger Ebert said about it,

it's a frustrating film to watch. Oh, I got the one. Are you ready? Yeah. The biggest one. The movie I don't like. Up until before The Godfather.

What's the most famous movie of all time? Gone with the Wind? Gone with the Wind, I can't stand. Interesting. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. A couple of reasons here. One is, the central character is a real bitch.

I would use a different word, but it's like unpopular. I mean, here's a woman who was stringing along this other guy. She's in love with her sister's husband, trying to steal him away, the whole thing, and she's fighting for the cause. The cause. What fucking cause? Slavery? There is a great play that was written called Moonlight and Magnolias.

I forgot who wrote it. They did it at Lincoln Center some years back, and I actually auditioned to play Ben Hecht. Because it's a story where – it's a three-pander, and it's Victor Fleming, Ben Hecht, and I forgot who the third person is in this thing. Oh, Selznick, of course. And Hecht was called in to write, you know, because it's in trouble. And Hecht wants no part of this thing because he goes, wait a minute. What cause? Why are we making this a hero?

She's doing this. She's cheating on this guy. She hates this guy. She's going behind him. Here's the guy who loves her. She's treating him like shit. And they're fighting for this cause? What cause?

Slavery? And he hated every second of it. So that's, I have a problem with Gone with the Wind. I just don't. You know, this is not the craftsmanship of it. I'm not talking about that. I just don't like the lead character, and it's like I'm not rooting for her. You know, it's like so, by the way, you know who else is in that movie?

Ward Bond. Oh, he is. Very good. Very good. However, now I got to give Ward a couple of props though, because Alexander Payne and I were talking about this the other day. He said, Robert, have you ever seen a movie called Gentleman Jim? I said, of course, with Errol Flynn. And Ward Bond plays John L. Sullivan in that movie. And he's great. He's great in the movie, I have to say. You know, so I have to give him his props there.

You know, you got to separate the personal from the professional. But, you know, so, you know, there's one there. But gone with the wind. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Introducing TD Insurance for Business, with customized coverage options for your business. podcast after this. can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance Advisor to learn more. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In season three, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White,

Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. So, so far, I've gone with the win. What else was on your list, Gilly? Oh, God.

I don't know. There's a few. I asked the question, and it's like I don't know if I have any. I'll give you a more recent one. Yeah. There will be blood. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the emperor's new clothes as far as I'm concerned. Good acting, though. Yeah. I'm an oil man. Yeah. I'm doing my best John Huston. I just didn't get that one.

The future, Mr. Gitz. The future. Yes. I like the kid, Paul Dano, in that. Yeah, I didn't't get that one. The future, Mr. Gitz. The future. I like the kid, Paul Dano, in that. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. Not in that movie. I like Paul, but not in that movie. You know, it's just personal taste.

He's a good actor. But, you know, you mentioned Errol Flynn. Errol Flynn, major Jew hater. I never heard that. You know, there was a guy who wrote the book, said he was a Nazi, and everybody tells me this guy wouldn't give a fuck about anything

he just wanted to get laid was he supposed to be a Nazi spy? yeah that probably was a little nutty people could write Lincoln was gay

and Errol Flynn is a spy and you know it's like anybody can write anything you know Ty Cobb's a sweetheart of a guy Santa Claus

I'm going to go back to Batman only because the fans demand it Robert yes of course the most expensive Anybody can write anything. You know, Ty Cobb's a sweetheart of a guy. Santa Claus. I'm going to go back to Batman only because the fans demand it, Robert. Yes, of course. The most expensive movie made to date at that point, which I didn't know. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of, well, obviously a lot of pressure riding on Burton, but you give him the lion's share of the credit. Without a doubt. Now, but I have to say, he does get the lion's share, but I have to say,

John Peters and Peter Guber were really good producers. They got this thing made. Michael Yousland tried forever to get it made. For years, yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I got to give him props,

but it's Tim Burton. You know, it's Tim Burton's vision. You know, I was not a fan of the TV show. It was too jokey for me. It was too campy for me. So when I read the first draft, the first script of Batman, I said, boy, this is going to work. And I said, Tim Burton's doing this? This is the right person. Then came the casting of Michael Keaton. And people don't remember the shit that that caused. I mean, if there was social media back then, there is no way I don't think Warner Brothers

would have been able to put up with Michael Keaton's casting. Because I don't know if you remember how much shit- I do remember. We do, yeah. Mr. Mom is playing Batman? I mean, in England, it was Mr. Mum. But it was like some- But then I knew Michael from standup.

And I had seen Michael's movie called Clean and Sober. Yeah. And he is great. Michael Keaton might be my favorite actor working today. I'll tell you, an underrated film. Gilly, did you see the one about Ray Kroc, about McDonald? Oh, I didn't see it. Yes, yes.

I saw it three times. I love that movie. What was the name of that thing? That's another one. It's called The Founder. The Founder. That's like Cobb. You know, it's like, I really enjoyed that movie.

And you see what a scumbag Croc was. Yeah, but at the same time, he was, yeah, exactly, but he was brilliant. I mean, the other guys didn't want to bend an inch. They didn't want to do anything, and he just said, you're wrong, and he took it over. And, you know, and he was pretty, of course, he takes the other guy's wife at the end, which is very funny. But, no,ael has done work i mean the founder good work uh he's one of those guys bird man what about spotlight good movie spotlight i mean michael's done such a movie called game six game six i have seen i like that movie a lot yeah the so then you had you know you had jack nicholson i mean, which at the top of it,

I mean, he's the biggest star in the world probably at that time. And he's such perfect casting. And the studio wanted him. He'd just done The Witches of Eastwick for them. And it was a lot of money. And Prince had just done Purple Rain, so they were going to shoehorn these Prince songs in,

even though Tim didn't want it. He didn't want the Prince songs. No, no, no. Tim did not have it. He didn't want the Prince songs. No, no, no. Tim did not have Final Cut or anything like that this time. But, you know, and it's crazy, and they are intrusive, but they work. Yeah. It does work.

And, I mean, it was just, and Anton first, we shot at the Pinewood Studios in London, and I would go to work every day and see Gotham City, and it was just something to see. I mean, it was just a lot. I was really fortunate. I was super fortunate. What do you remember about Nicholson? Didn't you guys drive to work to the set sometimes?

A couple of times. Yeah, he gave me a lift. They're usually coming back from the set. He's the greatest raconteur in the world. He could tell stories. He's talking about, you know, on tour in the world. He could tell stories.

He's talking about, you know, you know, one day I'm with Princess Margaret and I'm coking her up pretty good. Oh my God. You know, and I'm hearing stories and I believe every fucking word he's saying. And then he tells me, and he told me how to smuggle weed into London. And like an idiot, I did it.

He'd say, Bobby, what you do is you mail a fan letter to yourself saying, you don't know me, but here's a little something to keep you going. That way, if they catch you, you go, I don't know who the fuck this guy is. It's clever. It's's clever. And I did this. He's very clever. And believe me, if I would have spent the time preparing for the part as I did, you know, grinding up the weed and putting it in there, I would have been much better.

Much better. Were there a couple of tense table reads at Batman? Oh, yeah. Well, what happened was, what happened was, remember, like you said, it's the first, it's the most expensive movie ever made. And the original Vicki Vale is Sean Young. She's come over

and she's been in the news because there was a thing with her and James Woods and she was leaving voodoo dolls or some shit with James Woods. They'd done a movie called The Boost together. And she was in the news a lot.

And John Peters had a hard-on for her. You know, he wanted to fuck her. So she's Vicki Vale. And we have a table read. About two weeks before shooting, we all got over there for rehearsal. And there was a table read. And it was Marion Dougherty was there.

And John Peters and Peter Guber, and Tim, Jack, Michael, Sean, and me. And we go through the table read of the first draft, of the draft, Samham, and it goes really well. I mean, it went well. You could feel it in the room. I mean, God damn, we're onto something here. Now, as is custom, after you do something

like this, you go and get everybody's notes. The director goes over, Jack's got some suggestions, Michael's got his thoughts, you know, and you do it in, you know, in, you know, in order, you know, you do it in rank, rank order. Jack goes first and Michael, then Sean, then me. And when some things get taken out, some things get moved in, they add a little here, take away a little there. Well, so now comes a week, we're only days away from shooting, and now all the exchanges have been incorporated into the script. And now the big brass has flown in. I mean, there's twice as many people at the table read. You have all the chairman of Time Warner and the chairman of Warner Brothers, and everybody's at this table read.

And it's going pretty damn good again. And then Sean, who has lost a couple of lines, suddenly says, I feel like I'm disappearing from the pages. And then for the rest of the read, reads her part in a monotone like this. And all the energy goes out of the room. Now you got to remember, people's big jobs are at stake here. The first day of shooting

is the scene between, they're shooting the scene between Jack Nicholson and Jack Palance. They're going to shoot Jack Palance out in two days. So while they're doing that, there was a scene where Vicki Vale and Bruce Wayne are on Wayne Manor and they're going horseback riding on the estate. So Michael and Sean go horseback.

You know, they go with the trainer and the wrangler, and they go horseback riding. And Sean gets thrown from the horse and separates her shoulder. Now, I don't know this until I arrive on the set because I wasn't shooting that day, but I decided to go for solidarity, you know, team player. And I show up on the set, and I go, what's going on? He goes, what's going on? Sean just separated her shoulder. They got to find out if she can continue. So then I go to the luncheon and there's the head of the studio.

And I said, what's happening? I mean, what if Sean can't, you know, what if she can't continue? And, you know, if the doctor says she can't continue, and before the doctor even gets there, he says, she can't continue. Wow. I go, well, I did the doctor, she can't continue. So now they can't wait to get rid of her. So now the problem comes, we started shooting, you know,

and so we don't have a Vicki Vale. So the first choice, you know, John Peters says, let's go to Michelle Pfeiffer. Because they had just done The Witches of Eastwick together, which was a huge hit for Warner Brothers. Well, they want to go to Michelle Pfeiffer, but Michael Keaton hears about this. And Michael had recently had an affair with Michelle for quite a while. And it broke up. And now Michael is trying to get back with his ex-wife, who was joining him in London. And the thought of Michelle Pfeiffer showing up on set

does not sit well with Michael. And Michael can be tough. Michael's a really, you know, Michael's a Pittsburgh kid. And Michael says, there is no fucking way that Michelle Pfeiffer is setting foot on this set at this time. There is no fucking way. I will go after you and I'll rip your throat out.

And John Peters is a boxer. He's a pretty tough guy. And so they back away and then they go to Kim Basinger. Now, she's got to be on the set in 48 hours. You think she's got some leverage? Her agent's got some leverage in negotiations? So not only does Kim get the part, she gets her assistant to come with her.

She gets to design her own outfits, her own, which drew the wrath of the two-time Oscar-winning costume designer, Bob Ringwood, a great designer and a great guy, and who she keeps waiting for three or four hours. But she had such leverage. And on of that within a week she's moved in with john peters so wow it worked so it worked out yeah but i gotta tell you at the end of the day you know things you know the movie's pretty big hit yeah i mean with all of those things going wrong yet everything manages to gel yeah in fact would say, you know, what's interesting about the Batman series is the first series, not the, not the Dark Knight.

I'm going to take them separately. That's, that's a different. The Burton and Schumacher films. Yes. Right. If you put the Burton and Schumacher films back to back to back to back to back,

my theory is every hour gets worse. The first hour of the first Batman is dynamite. The second hour is pretty good. The next hour, the first hour, the second Batman returns is okay. The second hour is like, then come the Schumacher movies. And his sensibilities is much more like the TV series. Yeah, it's a little campier.

Oh, a little bit campier? Nipples on Robin? Come on. You know, the bat suit and stuff. You know, you got to know Joel. Joel used to, you know, Joel's a little bit more flamboyant. So those movies. Now, people ask me what I think about the recent, you know, the Dark Knight movies, which I sort of enjoy.

Here's my, and this is a generational thing, and it's just a personal taste. And it's definitely generational. The difference is the original Batman, at least the one I did, it's darker, but it's still fun. It's still fun. Jack is having fun. Do you know, it's fun. The latest incarnations I don't think are fun.

The Nolan pictures. Yeah, I don't think are fun. The Nolan pictures. Yeah, I don't find them having fun. I think they're incredibly well-crafted. They're terrific pictures, and you have to, and I will not say anything, I just don't see the fun in them. Did you see them, Gil? No.

Any of the Christian Bale Batman pictures? No, I don't think I've ever, no. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And what's interesting, because science fiction and fantasy are not my favorite genre. So, with rare exceptions.

The original Dave, The Overstood Still, good movie. Oh, yeah. Oh, getting back to a previous topic we were talking about, Good Morning Vietnam. Do you think any of it was true? There wasn't Adrian Cronauer.

He did have a radio show. He was a little bit more offbeat. He was a little bit more anti-establishment. But it wasn't Robin Williams. Remember, that's the type of thing. It was a vehicle for Robin Williams. It's just like Naked Dool Dandy is a vehicle for James Cagney. Just like these are vehicles.

So you're going to tailor it to the talents of the star. People, you know, he wasn't, but he did exist. And he was a DJ in Vietnam about that time. And that movie is, the success is Robin Williams, Barry Levinson. And I have to give some props to the producer, the late Larry Bresner, who we knew, did you? And that great cast. I mean, those wonderful characters. Yeah, we did have a pretty good Bruno. Bruno.

J.T. Walsh. J.T. Walsh. Noble Willingham. Noble Willingham. And who else? Richard Portnow. Forrest Whitaker and Richard Portnow and Richard Edson. And Uncle Floyd.

And Uncle Floyd. It's a great cast. Yeah, itrest Whitaker and Richard Korsnow and Richard Edson. And Uncle Floyd. And Uncle Floyd. It's a great cast. You guys look like you were having the time of your lives making that. We did. It was hot, but we had a great time, and we all hung out together. Before we get you out of here, Robert, and we'll do the plugs, too. You're on Cameo like Gilbert is. Yes, yes.

We'll plug the upcoming festival. Yeah, the Terrificom is when? That's coming up soon. That's April 9th through 11th. And Chiller Theater is in October, I think about 27 to 29. And I did a movie, but I have no idea when the hell this movie's coming out.

Shirley, it's about Shirley Jackson, the famous horror author. Oh, The Lottery. Yes, yes. Yeah, they asked for The Lottery. Elizabeth Moss plays her, but I don't know when it's coming out. It's an independent film and I haven't heard anything. Okay, so wild card question.

This is either a question from a fan or you want to tell us a quick Bruno Kirby story if you got one. Bruno is one of the great human beings of my life. Bruno helped me get the, he's one of the great acting teachers, you know, and acting

students. And when I was auditioned, the day before I went to audition for Bull Durham, I called up Bruno because I would, anything I would do to call Bruno. Bruno was my guru. And the part that I played in Bull Durham, on the page, he's only got like four lines in the whole movie, five lines, maybe. And I was trying to find a hook for him. And Bruno said, and he broke it down, and he'd say, well, let's think about this character. He's the pitching coach on a minor league team. And the staff of a minor league team at that point consists of the manager and the pitching coach.

That's it. And he says, it seems to me that if the manager is promoted, he's going to take his pitching coach with him. And I said, that's all I need, Bruno, because now I know he's a yes man. That's all I need. So no matter what the skipper said, and I'm auditioning, the skipper would say, Larry, and he's like, this guy needs to get tougher. That's right, Larry.

You got to be more tougher. Come on, get some balls. Get tougher. They're lollygags. They're lollygags. You know, I was just the, oh, I just was a yes man. That's what I was. I was a yes man. And what I was I was a yes man

and that was you know Bruno and Bruno was the as they called him the the maitre d' of life it was very sad you know he

developed leukemia and he went in for radiation and 10 days he was dead yeah my friend who's a doctor really thinks he goes well it sounds to me like

they OD'd him he goes you gotta remember when you take radiation it's a guess it's an educated guess you know to do it, it sounds to me like they OD'd him. He goes, you got to remember, when you take radiation, it's a guess. It's an educated guess, you know, to do it. So it sounds to me like they might have given him too much.

He could play anything. He could play straight roles. He's so fucking funny in Good Morning Vietnam as Hawk. I mean, it's a brave performance. He's great. He's great. Because he has to play an asshole. Yeah, he's young Clemenza in Godfather 2. He's Billy Crystal's best friend in Harry Met Sally.

Such a great loss. He's in the original City Slickers. The, I don't know, Bruno I Miss. Bruno was a loss. And also your friend Trey Wilson, too, another guy we lost. Trey was great. Another guy we lost too young. Trey dies out of nowhere.

I mean, he just, you know, we had just finished Bull Durham. I don't think, is the movie out yet? Yeah, it's out. Because the movie came out, and then Trey, who, of course, is best known for playing Nathan Arizona in Raising Arizona. He had just finished his role as Sam, what's the guy, Sam, Sun Records. He found, Sam Phillips. He played Sam Phillips in Great Balls of Fire.

Oh, yeah. He's been married to the mob. He was on a run. Right. So he had just finished, you know, Great Balls of Fire with my college classmate, Dennis Quaid. We were college classmates. And he was on his way to the airport because the coen brothers had given him

the lead sure next movies he was going to play the lead miller in miller's crossing he was going to play the part that eventually wound up going to albert finney right and he has an aneurysm brain aneurysm on his way about to leave to the airport and dies tragic and that was just because we had a memorial service because dennis qu, they were shooting great balls of fire when I was shooting Batman at the same time in London, and I was over at the memorial service. Two talents lost far too soon. Oof.

Gil? Funny way to end the show. Great note to end the show. Yes. We like to end it on a fun note. Okay, then quickly, a question from a fan, if you can go quick. Buddy Spencer wants to know of Robert. If he could act in any John Wayne movie, which one?

Oh, well, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Oh, yes. Good call. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Are you kidding me? With Lee Marvin? Good one. The last bad guy Lee ever played.

I love the Man of Shot Liberty. That's my top five Westerns. Did Jack Elam turn up in that one somewhere? No, Jack Elam does not. But Liberty Valance's two sidekicks are Strother Martin and Lee Van Cleef. You're right. Oh, that's right. You're right.

Very good. Very good. I mean, our good buddy, Andy Devine, because he gives his Haftorah in that movie. All right. We lift it up again. A great performance by Edmund O'Brien. Yes. The editor of the Shinbone star, Dutton Peabody.

And it's got that great line. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend. That's it. Yes. And the other great thing about it is Jimmy Stewart plays a young guy just out of law school who comes to the West, and I think Jimmy Stewart was 57, just got out of law

school when he did that movie. He comes out of law school, he just got out of... He's about 60. It's like Bendix. You know, that's a great... And Woody Strode is in that movie. Woody Strode, love it. Yes.

Pompeii. All right, we lifted it back up again. Yes, we did. Okay. And it has a Burt Bacharach song that is not in the movie. That's very good. The man who shot Liberty Valance. That's right.

He shot Liberty Valance. He was the bravest of them all. Is that Gene Pitney? When Liberty Valance came to town, the men would step aside. They'd step aside. When Liberty Valance came to town, the women would run and hide.

Because the point of a gun was the only law that Liberty understood. The man who shot Liberty Valance, he shot Liberty Valance. He was the bravest of them all. We're going to send you guys on tour. Backrack and Hal David and the song's not in the movie. Wow. I didn't know it was, no wonder it was

so catchy. Robert, you're the kind of guy we can talk to for hours and do all this stuff. So, okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and we've been talking to

the very funny, our friend, Robert Wall. Where can people see you and get autographs and hang out with you and Billy D? That's Terrificom. That'll be at the Mohegan Sun Casino, August 9th through 11th. And then Chiller Theater is in Persephone, New Jersey. That's October 25th through 27th. You know what's going to be there? Tony Danza did it last year.

And I don't know if Tony's doing it this year, but I'm going to talk to Tony because if he is, we have never done any Hollywood Nights. Hollywood Nights reunion. Yeah. And boy, is that a cult film. We'll come see you in Chiller. Outside of Batman and Arliss, I can stop more for that than anything else, Hollywood Nights. We'll come see you in Chiller if Gilbert's not on tour.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thanks, Robert. Thanks for schlepping through traffic, man. Okay. My pleasure, guys. Have a great time.

Okay, pal. Bye. Thank you. I'm going to go. Godfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Godfried and Frank Santapadre, with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.