Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 280. Treat Williams

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

Actor, writer and cinephile Treat Williams stops by the studio to talk about his 45 years in film, his admiration for Frank Capra and William Wyler, his love of old movie theaters and his memories of working with legendary directors Milos Forman, Sergio Leone and Steven Spielberg. Also, Vincent Price disses Alan Thicke, John Belushi auditions for "Hair," Gilbert hangs with Katharine Hepburn and Treat cameos in "The Empire Strikes Back"! PLUS: "The Phantom"! Praising Bob Balaban! The mastery of Sidney Lumet! Gene Hackman cuts to the check! And Treat remembers James Cagney, Martin Landau and Orson Welles! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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TD Insurance advisor to learn more. People, this is Phil Rosenthal and I'm on Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast. Why aren't you listening? Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verterosa. Our guest this week is one of the most respected and prolific stage and screen actors of his generation. You've seen him in popular TV shows like Blue Blood, Chicago Fire, Brothers and Sisters, White Collar,

Heartland, CSI, Chesapeake Shores, and Everwood. But it's his work on the big screen that's brought him the most acclaim and attention in memorable films. He's spoofing you already. Yes. Like The Ritz, 1941. Once Upon a Time in America. The Phantom, Smooth Talk, Dead Heat, The Devil's Own, Deep Rising, The Pursuit of D.B. Cooper, Mulholland Falls, Hollywood Ending, 127 Hours, and a movie we love to talk about on this podcast, Sidney Lumet's Prince of the City. Four decades ago, he starred along with our recent...

Gilbert, I'm falling asleep. Get to the point. Cut to the chase, Gilbert. Get through that part. I'm boring myself. See, this also serves as your... Who wrote this crap? This will work as your obituary, too. I would never let it climb.

Yeah, yeah. Found dead in his New York apartment. My obituary said, I told you I was sick. That's all I want my gravestone to say. And he worked with shitloads of people. Blah, blah, blah. Let's get talking. And the Andrew sisters.

Oh, yes, the Andrew sisters. Appeared many times on Ed Sullivan. Did an acclaimed production of Playhouse 90. All right, at least read the last part so people know who it is. My silent film career. Let's do the silent film career. I was in Wings. Worked with Mary Philbin.

Worked for Caldy Tree Service in Stanford, Connecticut. Doc Boy at Yacht Haven. It's all good. Alright, let's get to it. Co-wrote films. Do that part so people know who it is. Okay.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Please welcome. See, I rushed ahead to please welcome. Please welcome. I want to become Gilbert Gottfried tonight. The previous host of Candy Camera with Derwood Kirby. When it's least expected, you're elected.

It's your lucky day. Smile. You're on Candid Camera. With the hocus pocus. You're in focus. You're in focus. Okay, here's the trivia. Who was on Candid Camera in the bookshop telling the endings of all the books to the people?

Was it Woody Allen? God darn it, you. Yes. It was Woody Allen. Yes, a man you would later work with. I would. Well, how about telling the audience who we're talking to? You know what?

I'm going to go home. We're done. That's it. I'm the mystery guest. He's the mystery guest who we've talked about many times, and he's finally here. We have the very talented Herd Hatfield. Now, there's a reference. He's a movie buff

So he'll understand that reference Is that picture of Dorian Gray? Yes Yeah, very good We have our Clifton Webb is here We have our pal The very talented

John Hodiak I'll read this Please welcome to the podcast A favorite actor of Frank's and mine One of the few performers Versatile enough to play Lionel Atwill Jr. To play J. Edgar Hoover, Jack Dempsey, and Ted Kennedy,

the great Treat Williams is here. Treat, welcome. Thank you. I'm not familiar with your work. No, I'm not either. Sorry. Tell me what you've done. Yeah.

Nothing good. You do funny voices, don't you? Okay. Animals. Aren't you two animals? You're an animal guy. I was the voice of Yogi Bear. Parrots and ducks is all I know from you.

That's it. I used to do ducks. Not anymore. No more ducks. Sorry. We'll leave that out. No more ducks. We've all been there.

Okay. Enough about you guys. Let's talk about there. Okay. Enough about you guys. Let's talk about me. Welcome, Tree. Now, one movie a couple of times on this show. Okay, Frank is leaving. Frank is leaving. Okay, Michael is leaving.

It's just you and I. Yeah, see, we didn't like you as a guest from the beginning. What the hell with him? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck him. I'm back. I did, and it didn't go well.

He wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. We ended it. Hilarious. Hilarious. We have a sponsor. Oh, sorry. We're done already.

Okay. This is never going to make the interview. Are you. We're done already. Okay. This is never going to make the interview. Are you distantly related to P.T. Barnum? No, but my uncle hated him. They hated each other's guts. They were both in Connecticut. My uncle was a senator from Connecticut. Okay.

I got bad info. And he and Barnum hated each other. Okay. Why? Now, P.T., P.T., because P.T. was a, you know, he was not unlike Donald Trump. Ah! And we'll leave that alone. Okay.

And so my uncle, who worked for government in a different kind of way, was a senator, and he felt that Barnum was, you know, a snake oil salesman. But you are distantly related to a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Yes. Yes. Robert Treat Payne. That's cool. And what's interesting about him is that he was a good friend of the ex-president, John Adams.

And during the trial of the Boston Massacre, he represented the Americans. And as you know, Adams got the English soldiers off. Sure, sure. So I saw the miniseries. He was the prosecuting attorney. The other thing that I found of interest is a book about whatever happened to all the signers. His son married an actress, and he disowned him for it. Wow.

So I don't think he and I would be close. But it's quite an honor. He's buried in the granary up in Boston, and that's kind of cool to see my name up there. Yeah. It's just cool to have a relative who signed the Declaration. Yeah. I don't think he owned slaves, which is kind of cool. That's cooler still. That was pretty cool.

Yeah. We were talking before we turned the mics on about how nobody remembers anybody anymore. No, yes. And Treat was saying how people don't know who Humphrey Bogart is. I met someone who doesn't remember David Letterman. He was on the air like a month ago. Rick Dreyfuss and I were having dinner on a film that fell apart. We were out in Youngstown, Ohio.

We were talking about the movie and what happens is you have references when you're doing a movie. And we referenced Jimmy Stewart in the films of Frank Capra. And the set designer said, I'm sorry, who's Jimmy Stewart? Incredible. And Richard and I went into shock. Yeah. You can't, how do you talk to someone in your business who isn't interested in the history of film

and isn't interested in starting with silent films? Bizarre. And the comedies of the 20s. Right. And then the screwball comedies of the 30s and the 40s and then film law in the 50s. Sure. You'd think that kids who came out of film school

would know these films. Or get that basic education. I don't want to be the old guy who is... I know. But it's true. They're not interested in the stuff that we grew up studying. It's part of why we do this, too.

They did... We're the only ones left, just us three. No one's listening to this podcast. They did a review of Benicio del Toro's The Wolfman. And the guy said it would be good if the movie had him as someone who wants to be cured of this problem. And then he gave us an example of The Incredible Hulk. And I said, no. Like The Incredible Hulk. And I said, no, like the wolf.

Too far back. Yeah. I know. But your local theater was the Avon Theater? One of them. I was born in Stanford, Connecticut. There were three theaters. There was the Stanford Theater, the Avon,

and the other one, I'll think of it, there were three. And then there was the Darien Theater, which was near Row 8 where I grew up. So those four theaters were the theaters. But Stanford was where I did my first theater. It's where I had my first two jobs. I actually was a dock boy at Yacht Haven. And one day I carried the spaghetti already pre-made with Frank Sinatra and his wife to his boat. And I was a dock boy there.

Wow. Oh, boy. Mia Farrow was the wife. Wow. Women were falling off the bows of their boats. That's cool. I'd never really been around that kind of... Fame.

I mean, superstardom. Yeah. Where people were basically falling all over themselves. And he was very polite, very kind. You know, I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, be careful, that's hot. I'll never forget that. That stayed with you.

Oh, it stayed with me for life. It's the deepest thing I've ever heard from a celebrity. A couple of times on this show, we do a thing where we recommend movies to watch. And one that I recommended that we both love is Sidney Lumet's Prince of the City. Yeah, we did a whole episode about it. Yeah, I heard. I'm grateful.

Because it's funny. Like, Sidney Lumet also did Serpico, which is similar because it also deals with police corruption. But whereas Serpico, which was a great film, it's very black and white. It's Serpico's good, the cops are bad. And in Prince of the City, it's more gray area. Like you're going, okay, the cops are doing bad things, but they're not bad guys. And you don't know who to side with in Prince of the City. Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of an American tragedy. Very much so. Just rewatched it. It's kind of an American tragedy. Very much so. Just rewatched it. And I think what Sidney explained to me was that once you turn, you can't turn back. And I think that was the most important point of the film is that this young man got kind of eased into it. You know, it starts with a donut.

It starts with a free cup of coffee. And then you get into narcotics, and then it starts with starting to take a couple bucks here and there or stealing money off the guys that you arrest. And then it's right in the opening scene. The suitcase full of cash opens up. We don't see the guys take it, but it's pretty apparent that they're going to take it. And then, you know, it was written so beautifully by J. Preston Allen that when Bobby has this argument and he says, these guys can't pay their dentist bills. They can't carpet the upstairs of their homes in Long Island. can't pay their dentist bills.

They can't carpet the upstairs of their homes in Long Island. And these guys that are getting off are going back to South America and living in gigantic houses. And at some point, you say to yourself, I'm going to take this money from him. It's never going to go back. They're just going to get away with it. I'm going to keep it. And you do kind of understand it, but it's not right.

So it's a very, very great – you're right. It was a very difficult, tough. And it shows that the cops, even though they're breaking the law, among themselves, they have like a loyalty. Yes. And in some ways are more trustworthy than the guys who are doing the good work. And I became very close with Bob Lucy, who was the guy. We remained friends for life. And I think the thing that was important is that Bob never thought – his tragic flaw was that he thought he could control.

He was always so good at manipulating people. He thought he could control his environment. And then he got involved with people who were much smarter than him. And he hadn't been in that aura. He was with other cops, people in his sort of world, and he was the best at being manipulative and sort of controlling his environment. And then these guys came in,

told him things were going to be a certain way, and he thought he could control them, and found out that, no, he said, okay, I just will not rat on my partners. But he lost control of it. And then things started to go bad and guys started killing themselves. And that's when it became an American tragedy, I think.

But it also was indicative of how cyclical corruption is in police departments. It's happened again. We'll go through more and more. It's cyclical in government too, as well know it's happened before it's happened since it's happening now you made this movie yeah yeah and it has to be cleaned up and then everything's okay for a while and then it goes on again but but i thought sydney did a great job in in in um telling that story tell us about sydney lamette how'd you get the part let me talk to you

about this is something and i that i i something that I'm sorry for and about, and it's been with me recently in movies and everything I do, is that Sidney, and I'll do it in two ways. I'll talk about Sidney, but also the fact that Sidney came up through, well, he was a very well-known actor. He actually was Marlon Brando. He took over for Marlon Brando in a play with Paul Muni. It was called The Flag, and he was a very good actor. He Brando in a play with Paul Muni. It was called The Flag.

And he was a very good actor. He actually starred in a couple movies. His father is one of the great Yiddish actors, Baruch Lamed. So he knew acting and understood it. And then he became a director and started directing myriads of television, live television plays. And he was given his break by Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men. That was his first feature. And he was off and running after the film.

But Sidney believed that you rehearsed a movie like a play. So we went down on town on 2nd Avenue. Everybody knew their lines. We rehearsed for three to four weeks. And at the end of the rehearsal period, we did run-throughs of the movie and everybody watched everybody else doing their scenes. So we all knew what we were in. You'll go into comedy now and you'll say, what kind of comedy is this? What's the energy? Is it broad comedy? Is it subtle? I mean, you don't know because you haven't seen

the other actors work but in back in the day even when hair also which we'll talk about you rehearsed and you and the director had a chance to work with everybody and this thing sydney did that i loved was you'd you'd get a scene up to speed and he'd direct you and direct you and you'd get up to certain kind of emotional place that was the right place and you'd finish that rehearsal take of that scene, and Sidney would go, that's a print. And that was him saying, that's where I want you to be in three weeks or whenever we do it, out of context, that that's where the scene needs to be,

and I want you coming in, I want your motor running, because I've got everything. That whole thing about Sidney doing one take, the reason he did one take is everybody was good to go. Right. If the sound was good and the actors were up to speed and lighting was good, camera got the scene, why do two takes? He didn't waste any time.

He didn't. And didn't waste film. No, he didn't. And he was kind of neurotic about being on time. So that was the wonderful thing about him, was that he would listen forever if you needed to. Lindsey needed to talk to him a lot. I didn't talk much.

Lindsey Krauss. Yeah, Lindsey Krauss needed to sort of talk it out. I was more, let me just go do it. Let me try it, and if you like it, then that's what we'll do. He'd seen you in Grease? He'd seen you on stage? No, he'd seen me in hair.

In hair. I think he saw a degree of okay fearlessness okay okay one of the things he used to say was treat one thing i i i'm glad about treat he said he doesn't really give a damn what anybody thinks of him he does i didn't care whether the character was likable or not likable or you know i just wanted to embody what Bobby did and the character and what he went through. There are some directors known for doing like about 100 takes. Like I think, what was it, Kubrick is one of those. I could spend a day on like a five-minute scene.

Yeah, Yeah. And I know Baruch Lamet shows up in The Pawnbroker. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Were you a fan of his films before?

Sydney? Yeah. Oh, God, yes. Before meeting him. Oh, my God. Because you're a movie buff. We all wanted to be Al and Bob. I mean, I tried to hide the fact

that I'd gone to prep school. You know, we all wanted to be Italian. Right. And I get to be. But I was a kid who wore penny loafers and shirts with my initials on them

when I grew up. I read that that project started with De Palma before it made its way around to Sydney. I heard about that. I wasn't aware of that. It knocked around a little bit. It was a difficult film. They wanted another actor who was a movie star, and they made Sidney go out and meet with him,

and that didn't go well. And Sidney came back and said, you're still my guy. That's nice. You called him a ball of fire in an interview that I read. Oh, he was extraordinary. Yeah. He was really extraordinary.

I mean, he was, oh, gosh. You know, it's interesting to compare Milos and Sidney. Like, Milos was the kind of director. He didn't do lots of takes, but because we were young and starting out, Milos would wait you out. You know, he'd do it again, and actors would go over. I mean, he was talking to Mike Hausman, who produced the films, and Mike would say, the actors would come over to me and say,

why is he asking me to do it again? What am I doing wrong? And Mike would say, well, go ask Milos. But Milos was of a European school where he didn't like acting, and he wanted you to stop acting. I see. So he would wait for three or four or five or ten takes until you stopped acting and started to play.

I heard about that with other directors. What we did tonight at the beginning is the kind of thing that a great director's looking for, where it's completely free, we were relaxed, we weren't thinking about what we were going to say. That should be in a movie we just did. I'm serious. I think that's... I'm glad you liked it. No, that's comedy.

Yeah, it was great. In its purest form. And when you see people trying to be funny and doing the one-liners, and you watch the ad for a sitcom and you go, oh yeah, there's the punchline. Oh yeah. That's all you got? You kind of go, I can't.

Yeah, there's a few directors that will purposely rehearse something to death just so the actor won't act anymore. He'll be too tired to act. When you think of his body of work, I mean, and we talk about,

yeah, even before The Devil Knows You're Dead, the last film he made, where he was just still on his game. I mean, that's a terrific movie.

And what is he, in his 80s at that point? That's amazing to me. I think he and Woody had a lot in common because I worked with Woody Allen too. And I think that

Sidney and Woody were like, that was their job. They could have been, you know, working down in the garment district. Every year they did a movie. And sometimes the movie failed. Sometimes it succeeded.

But that's what they needed to do. That's what they did. I make movies. Turn them out. I make a movie. I'll make movies. And when Sidney wasn't making a movie and things got slow, he wrote one of the best books about filmmaking I've ever seen. It's this big.

It's very simple. It's very small, and it's the most concise, sort of honest, unpretentious book about filmmaking I've read. It's a hard film to watch. I mean, watching the scene where you're slapping your brother around. You should be me watching the film

trying to watch it. It's a tough to watch. I crawl under my seat. I talked to Beverly about that. She said because you were learning to act as a film actor? I knew film acting acting but it was just so he was it was so raw and so emotionally just he was it was just i i went to places that in my life i had not been i see i had not been responsible for a friend committing suicide two friends committing suicide right i had not been. I see. I had not been responsible for a friend committing suicide, two friends committing suicide. Right. I had not been responsible for bringing down an entire industry, all the cops.

I mean, he brought down SIU, the Special Investigating Unit. Sense of guilt and realization that he thought that he was in control of something that he lost control of and brought this thing down. I mean, I don't know how people say in the movie, I don't know how you live with yourself. One of the most interesting experiences, and I realized how bad this was for Bob all his life, was Henri Behar, a French journalist, was going to take me around. We were going to take him around New York late at night. So they brought in a police officer, a current police officer, to make sure that we were okay because we were going to drive around Manhattan late at night. So this cop and me and I can't remember, a producer or somebody, and Bob was there, Bob Lucy, the star of the film, you know, who it was about.

And we're all introduced, and they said, this is Bob, this is Treat, this is Joe, whatever. And the cop looks at me and says, so what do you think about this fucking rat? I mean, how can you play this fucking rat? How do you do that? I said, well, why don't

you ask him? He said, right next to you. Wow. That was a very uncomfortable moment in my apartment. I can imagine. Wow. Well, how did he live with it? I mean, how did he deal with it? He became a writer.

You guys, you said you stayed in touch with him until his death. He only died a couple of years ago. I don't think he was ever able to explain it. How did he process it? Especially the suicides and... Well, I think at some point in your brain, you have to figure out that the guy was weaker than you were. Sure.

I mean, if I were to process it, I would say, well, they weren't Jerry Orbach's character, were they? They weren't Les Wolfe. Right. Les Wolfe said, fuck you. So I did some shit. I'll throw you out on your pointy little head out the window. I don't care. This is what we did.

And we did it, and I'm proud of it. And the audience cheered yeah they loved him yeah it's interesting they're owning it am i allowed to say these words yes absolutely okay so so i think jerry you know sort of was the hero of the piece by saying this is what i do this is what i did and i'm not ashamed of it and i'm not going to kill myself you know that's what he says, I'll take this desk, I'll throw it out of the window. We put our lives in danger. There is a wonderful speech that I had where I say, you guys don't understand what we do. We go out into the jungle. We put our lives

at stake every single day. And if we find money, we're going to take that money because these guys are bad guys. And we put our lives in the line for it and nobody's nobody's taking care of us so i'm going to take the guy's money and that's when i fall apart in that one scene yeah and that's what they know they've got it's emotional they've got me because i'm guilty and i want you know i want to to sort of regain my young catholics catholicism they they show in the movie like even when they're finding out that that character's a rat, they're still remaining loyal

to him. Well, I think, yeah, it's a difficult scene. The scene where I confess to them is a really tough scene where I say that I, it's a great line. I say, I did, they say, well, Bobby, you're all good. You didn't, you didn't do anything. You didn't say anything, did you? And I say, I did, they say, well, Bobby, you're all good. You didn't, you didn't do anything. You didn't say anything, did you? And I say, I did some things. That's the most extraordinary

line to me. When Bob says, or my character, Danny Cello says, I did some things and they're all staring at me. And it's the beginning of the confession to them that he had, you know, talked, but he says, you know, the whole point is I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want to bring you guys down, you know, and they're actually show compassion for him at that point. Because I don't think they still think that they're going to be brought down too at that point. Good cast too. Balaban and Horbach. Bob is extraordinary.

And Carmen Caridi, who we just lost. Carmine Caridi. Did he die? He just died a couple of months ago. Yeah. He was wonderful. Everybody was wonderful. Carmine.

James Tolkien and all those character actors. No, it was an honor to be in that cast. And I read something Milos said about Jack Nicholson when they were doing the film that Milos did with him, Cuckoo's Nest. Cuckoo's Nest, yeah. And he said that Jack was just like one of the actors. There was no Hollywood. There was no movie star. Jack just wanted to come in and do good work.

And I hoped, because I was younger than most of them, that I would be that same guy, that I would come in and just be one of the actors. By the way, there was about over 80 years of time spent in jail amongst that cast. I can imagine. There were some very tough guys. Bobby Alto was in that cast. Oh, that's right. Yeah, from Alto and that cast. I can imagine. There were some very tough guys. Bobby Alto is in that cast. Oh, that's right.

Yeah, from Alto and Mantia. Yes. Yeah. We love New York City movies. We just love, and that's one of the reasons we love Lumet stuff. We love to look at old New York.

Oh, yeah. You know, in Serpico and Bye Bye Braverman. Oh, Gene Halperin's Car Chase. Yeah. Oh, and the French Connection, too. In fact, when I run away

from the guys watching me on 8th Avenue, just around a corner from here, Sidney put the camera up on a building, and there was no permissory stuff going on. I was knocking people over. Oh, that's great. I'm sure they're going to come after me now. And then that he could turn around and make something like The Hill or Murder on the Orient Express. I mean, and The Verdict. I mean, he's just such a master of the different forms.

Yeah, I mean, the great directors, the directors that I love are the ones where you don't see their imprint on the film. Yeah. It's not, you know, William Wyler is my favorite sort of director of that period. Because there's no such thing as a William Wyler film. His films were all completely the film of the story and the period, and the style is completely different in each film. He served the master, which is the text. So it's not like the Capra Touch where you know you're getting a Capra or a Sturgis or a Ford.

Yeah, and I worked with John Sturgis in The Eagle Has Landed, and I loved him. There was a for that. Or a Sturgis or a Ford. Yeah, and I worked with John Sturgis in The Eagle Has Landed. And I loved him. There was a different style. You know, Capra had a style, but I adore Frank Capra films. Well, he always talked about the old directors with the studio system, that they said they were these kind of directors that if you said we're directing a Western, they direct a Western. If it's direct a western if it's a love story it's a love story michael curtis yeah like casablanca mildred pierce yeah just we just turn

them out yeah yeah i love the stories about curtis yeah i love the story you know he said bogart just look over there and nod your head why oh just do it and it's when he's nodding for them to sing you know the French anthem Bogart had no idea he just looked over and went okay do it

it was like one of the great moments in the film and Bogart didn't know why he was doing it you read Bogdanovich's book Who the Devil Made It? I'm not sure

you'll enjoy that I'll get you a copy it's a good read I just finished Milos' book which I adored I just finished it this week which is Turning Around which is a great book, too.

That scene in Casablanca where they're singing the French allegiance or trying to drown out the Nazis. That's wonderful. They said the war was still going on at that time, and they said there are people there. The people crying were actually crying. Of course. Now I'm going to make him do something for you since you're such a movie buff. Give him a little bit of your Peter Lorre impression.

No, it's you who banded it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it. Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder we had such an easy time buy it. Kevin to found out how valuable it was. No wonder we had such an easy time getting it. You blundering fathead! You bludded

idiot! Rick! Rick! Help me, Rick! Rick! You got to help me!'ve got to help me. You've got to save me. I stick my neck out for no one. There you go, Trio.

I was, you know, one of my favorite lines in that movie is, Mr. Rick, what is the captain like? What kind of a man is he? Well, he's like any other man, except more so. And then there's that line Sidney Greenstreet has where he goes, leaving Casablanca now

would take a miracle, and I'm afraid that the Germans have outlawed miracles. Great stuff. And yet the Epsteins who wrote that script were tired of hearing about it toward the end of their lives. Can you imagine?

I heard a story that somebody actually put the script out as a modern-day film and pitched it to all the studios and everybody passed. Oh, God. So going to the movies as a kid at the Avon and other theaters, and I mention the Avon

because I think it's still around, right? Didn't you do something? Didn't you and Beverly were at a hair celebration? Oh, just two weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. So that's nice to see that the original...

Well, I produced and starred in a film called The Congressman and I went down to the Avon about two years ago and we did a presentation. And there's a lovely guy, Adam, who runs the theater. How nice that it's still there.

They're doing a great job it's an art house now it's gorgeous in fact they've made two theaters the balcony is one theater and the house is another so we went back and did that and that went well

and this is where I started I did my first musical there I did West Side Story at the local high school that was the first time I was ever in a musical on stage and then he said would you like to come back and do hair?

So I got everybody together. I got John Savage, DeAngelo, Donnie Dacus, Dorsey Wright. We all came. And they did a beautiful job. You know, it's a great print. It was lovely. But I went there as a kid. It was where I was born, where my dentist was.

I had two jobs. But I saw all the big movies there. It was a big movie house. So I saw Lawrence of Arabia. I saw Sound of Music. In fact, when Sound of Music went, I'd never seen a film that had an intermission. And when the intermission came on Sound of Music,

I turned to my friend, I said, what the fuck is with, what the hell is that? That's not the end of a movie? That sucks. I want my money back. And I turned out, you know, it was to go get more candy

and Lawrence of Arabia also had an intermission. And they had a thing that I'd never seen. I said, what's that French word? Entract? What is that?

And they played, ya-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- lot and then it's like how the whole life of uh seeing movies in theater with an audience is gone yeah just about in la they do a pretty good job i mean they've hung on to the chat the chinese theater there's the there's the cinerama dome there's the you know tarantino water revival people who really like this and i think to be honest be honest with you, it's our job. It's my job to get my son to want to continue this process of saying, yes, it's wonderful to have a screening room in your home. I have a beautiful screening room in my home, finally. I was always the shoemaker who had no shoes, and we finally put a big screen in our house in Vermont. But there's something about being in a darkened place with a group of strangers who all come together to experience this extraordinary thing called film. Yeah.

And I don't know how we, well, what we're doing right now is a way of keeping it going. It is an exquisite, almost religious experience. You know, interestingly, George C. Scott used to say theater was church.

This is our church. Yeah. I think movie theaters are, in a way, a form of church where people come together and experience something as a group. It's just very different when you're talking to your family in a room and you're going to get your

pizza that you put in the microwave as opposed to sitting in a theater darkened and really becoming immersed in this event. We don't know Vermont. How are they doing in terms of preserving well our theater just closed we had an art house in town that's heartbreaking it is yeah because here it's happening i will do everything i can to you know to find a way that

we can create something that people do want to go to um i don't know if it was well run or not i i certainly didn't support it in a way that i should have, but I'm not there half the year. I'm doing other things. And your son's making movies now. My son just made an extraordinary film. I like to talk about it because I think he's going to be a very, very good filmmaker. And he lived with the world champion beatboxers in Brooklyn. Okay. Gil Williams, isn't it?

Gil. Yeah. For two years. And, you know, we were all nervous. He was nervous to see the film. And so he made a film, he followed them, and did a film about these guys going to

Europe and performing and competing in something that we don't yet know about. It's sort of kind of like rap when it started. It's an extraordinary art form where they take a microphone and it's that kind of thing they make these extraordinary sounds with their they they're beyond what i yeah it's impressive and what was

i thought it was going to be like okay i'm going to watch like two hours of the guys making you know and what it turned out to be was russians and koreans and americans and Frenchmen, Canadians, all these kids competing, competing with the enormous amount of love for one another's talent and work. And when one would win, the other would hug them. And I saw these Russian guys that were extraordinary. Just they were bonding in a way that I thought, why can't the people running the countries learn from these kids? So it isn't just about beatboxing. It's really about our younger generations wanting to be close

and wanting to share a common love of something. What's the name of the picture? Beatbox House. Beatbox House. Beatbox House, okay. Because the guys all live together. Oh, no, it will be great. And we're working one of the best sound houses

here in New York. Is that what your son's attracted to, documentaries? My son is a writer, director, actor, singer. He's already surpassed me. Oh, nice. No, he's extraordinary. So it's going to be a great film. And it already is, and people are really responding to it.

Good. We'll look for it. Beatbox. Beatbox. We'll look for it. Beat Bachhaus. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast right after this. That's what you say.

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Here it comes. You're not going to Piscopo, are you? Were you in it? No, no. 1941, were you in it? No, I wasn't in that one. Dead Heat, were you in it? Dead Heat. Lucky you. He was a corpse. No, I wasn't in that one. Dead Heat, were you in it? Dead Heat.

Lucky you. He was a corpse. No, I wasn't in it. I wasn't in it. Do you know the meaning of the word nadir? Yes. It's a low point. Yes, I think we do.

Okay, then we could move on. Okay. No, I'll talk to you about it. He worked with Piscopo on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, on Saturday Night Live, I worked with Piscopo. Well, he was very good at his Frank Sinatra doing rock and roll. Yes, he was. Wait, listen.

Vincent Price is in it. One of our favorite actors. Number one son is in it. Darren McGavin. Wait a minute. Vincent Price. Darren McGavin. Key Luke.

Me. Yeah. Reasons to see it. Now, the movie was a piece of shit. But I did seven hours of makeup for a piece of shit because I had kids that were going to be in college. Tell us about... I own that. I'm owning the fact that I was in a piece

of shit. By the way, that's not the only one. When Michael Caine got his first nomination after like 20 years, he walked up to the microphone. And everybody looked at him and he said, I've done a lot of shit. Yeah. And he got a wild applause.

I can't wait to say that. Jaws full like Jaws 4. Tell us your worst pictures. We already had Teddy. We had Erwin Winkler here. Tell me when you couldn't go to the toilet. You know? Okay.

This morning. It's weird because some of my worst pictures have become like – what's the word they use? Cult? Cult classics. Cult classics. Dead Heat has a cult following. Yeah. The Substitute has a cult following. A lot of people like Dead Heat.

It's online if you do the research. I think what Brando said was you owe them nothing but not to bore them. You know, like a cult classic that I think is the kind of film that you really want to be in, if you're going to be in a bad movie, is like Mommy Dearest, where all the gay guys in New York are watching it and talking back to the screen, and it's the funniest experience. One of the best experiences in a film theater I ever had was watching Mommy Dearest opening night.

Or Showgirls, another film like that. It makes it fun, you know. I've done over 100 films. I think we could, like, when you finish this tonight, I'll give you a list of 90. Let me do it this way. Let me say the ones that I like because it's more positive.

I loved Hair. There's some that I have a kind of a... They're not great, but I love The Ritz because I got to play a wild character that... I love Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead because I got to play a psychopath. Critical Bill.

Hair. Prince of the City. And then television. I got to play Mike Ovitz in The Late Shift, for which I was nominated for an Emmy. Yes. I got, there are a bunch of stuff that I, you know. The Leone movie.

Our streetcar. Once Upon a Time in America. The streetcar Beverly and I did was very, very good. So there's a bunch of stuff that I'm really proud of. Deep End of the Ocean's a pretty good movie. But I sort of, I don't think, I could, if we went down the list uh uh you'd say this is shit i go yeah yeah yeah that was real shit but you know on the other hand there's something people that love like like deep like deep rising we spent six months on it it's not a good movie but it's fun it's fun yeah it's

full of axes in the head and people dying and so is the Phantom. Fun. Now, that's interesting. There is another podcast that Gil told me about where apparently I'm the only one who survived that. And that's the kind of thing. I always do a movie I think, you know, I'll talk about Phantom. That's a good movie to talk about in terms of bad movies. It was written by the guy. I can't remember his name. Jeffrey Boehm.

Jeffrey wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah, he wrote the third one yeah yeah and uh i thought i walked it out and i said oh this is great this is a comic book villain i know exactly what i want to do with this and there's this podcast called uh what went wrong or what happened oh it's this it comes out of here what's it called uh it's uh uh how did this get made thank you frank i had a brain fart and and paul shirschow gil told me he listened to it and said that i survived it he said the reason i survived it was they said treat williams who chews up the scenery in the movie i had a blast you do understood the movie he was in but unfortunately i was was the only one in that movie.

I think that's accurate. I have never sat through a screening of a movie in Hollywood next to the writer. We watched the screening of the movie, and I went, well, I do what I want to do. I mean, I came up with stuff where when I was fighting with Billy Zane with the rings, I was running on the beach, and I thought,

what if these rings with these powerful rings back and forth, what if when I lean forward, I go past gravity? And they went, oh, that's good. So they rigged me up with a wire.

Yes, I just watched it. So that I'm pushing toward, and this is my idea, pushing toward Billy, and I go past the possibility, and I'm leaning down almost to the ground, and then I come back up again,

because he's like beating me with the ring, you know, the ring power. And I thought that was fun. That was the kind of like wild stuff you come up with. But I sat next to the writer in the screening

and when the lights came up, there was this silence and, you know, the director, I loved him. He was a wonderful guy. Simon Windsor? Simon should not be directing,

you know, comedy. He's coming off free willy you simon but yeah you free willie but don't you freed me from from a career um so i i the lights come up and the guy the writer you just met jeffrey bohm jeffrey bohm just looks at the staring at the screen and he goes, what happened to my movie? Oh, boy. Oh, that's awful. So for me to talk about my lousy films, I'm going to hurt a lot of feelings. Oh, no.

We won't go into detail. By the way, you played it like a... I always say, they say, you know, you do a lot of shit films and you say, yeah, but I got a nice house. I got a swimming pool. So shut up and leave me alone. You're one to talk about taking a check pool. So shut up and leave me alone. You're one to talk about taking a check in bad films, Gilbert. Oh, Christ.

Oh, really? I'm still waiting. Yeah, but it's just your voice. It's just your voice. He's on camera in a lot of them, my friend. Are you? Okay. Oh, yes. I'm still waiting. I'm proud of all of them. I'm sorry. He was in a movie called Funky Monkey. Yes. That's my favorite film! Yes.

Bring up Bongo. Bedtime for Bonzo. Bedtime for Bonzo. I remember one movie I had a part in, and the review was God Save Us All. That was... All right, I'm going to tell you my favorite review. I have a boat on a lake up in Vermont. I have a boat, too.

Some bad movies got me a boat. No apologies needed. And there's an island called Neshobe Island on Bomazine Lake. It belonged to Alexander Wolcott, who was the New York Times critic. And everybody went there. Harpo went there. Friend of Harpo's. Great book, Harpo Speaks.

Yes. And he talks about going up on the island, stripping off all his clothes and then running back to LA afterwards. We had Harpo's son on this very podcast. Are you kidding? Bill Marks, a couple of weeks ago. Oh, I'd love to meet him. Yeah, we'll send you the link. Yeah. Oh, I'd love to hear it. So, there was a... Alexander was questionably liked

boys as much as girls, and he met this young man from South America who he thought was an extraordinary actor, and his name was Guido Nazo. Guido Nazo. And he wanted to make him a star, so he put him in a play in New York, and George Kaufman wrote the review, and at the end of the review, he said, as for the star, Guido Nazo is not so Guido.

That's funny. That's funny. You played it sort of like a Bond villain in The Phantom. You just sort of like, you were having fun. No, I was a cartoon Bond villain. You were having fun. I was having fun, but I was committed. Yes.

You know, I was committed. And I remember I had a line where I said, inflate the boats when we land somewhere. And I did it in such a way during the read-through, I said, oh, yeah, this is the guy. Because I just went, inflate the boats. And all of a sudden, everybody went crazy. And I went, oh, okay, this is a comedic villain. You saw him as Clark Gable on acid, you said.

Exactly. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Clark Gable on acid. I think my favorite line is when you scream, the skulls have spoken. Well, the skulls of Tuganda. The skulls of Tuganda.

I thought it was, show me the power. Show me the power. And then I went, I love this. I also liked it when I threw the spear through Joe. That was great. It was Joe Ranio, I think. And I threw the spear through Joe Ragnall, I think. And I threw the spear through a guy. And while I was talking, I ripped out his body without missing a beat.

I had a blast in that film. It's clear that you did. Could you tell us about Vincent Price, working with him? Well, I didn't know him. It was like meeting the most elegant man you'd ever met in your life. I met these your life. He was sitting. I met these guys after. In 1941, I worked with Shira Mifune, Christopher Lee.

I was like. Doug Taylor. All of a sudden, yeah. Or, you know, yee-haw. Slim Pickens. Slim Pickens. What a cast. He came on set, and I think at that point he'd been on so many movies, he probably didn't know which movie he was in. But he this lovely suit on sitting in the chair cross-legged just waiting

for his moment he was just polite and elegant and and present and lovely but it was like meaning you know uh the uncle you'd never met who who was just the nicest most calm reasonable, reasonable. You know, here were these old pros sitting there at one or two in the morning and I was getting angry because they didn't know what they were doing. When you do an indie, you know that's how it goes sometimes. Since you're such a film buff, would you like to hear some of Gilbert's Vincent Price?

Of course. I won't compete on this one. I can't do him. Run! Run for your I won't compete on this one. I can't do him. Run. Run for your life. No, scream. Scream for your lives. Scream for your lives.

The tingler. It's noose in the theater. Everyone scream. Scream for your lives. We like to keep the guests entertained as we go. Scream for your life. We like to keep the guests entertained as we go. And my favorite part of that is after screaming, because the tingler was loose in that theater. He goes, we now return to our movie.

You know the tingler? Oh, sure. The castle movie where they wired the seats oh i know your butt got yeah yeah yeah they squirted perfume on your face and water in your face it was like a rubber centipede on a stress terrible yeah terrible since we all want to be so frightened by that i remember meeting vincent price when was doing Thick of the Night. Oh, yes. In the Thick of the Night?

I love them. Rod Steiger? No. In the Thick of the Night? Oh, it's a bad talk show. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, with Alan Thicke. Yeah.

And then years later, I ran into Vincent Price somewhere, and I said, you probably don't remember this, but we did the Alan Fick show together. And he goes, oh, yes, that was a terrible show. Let's just talk about 1941 since you brought it up. Oh, let's. Because you're so much fun in that movie.

I had fun. And your ability with slapstick you know I mean how much work and how much prep went into that jitterbug

fight scene no we worked really hard we went down to a guy that was you know had been teaching acrobatics

and we worked very hard with Bobby DiCicco and we did the thing where he runs up the wall and i flip him over the wall yeah i hate eggs and the late great wendy joe sperber and late great and also what a you know when i think about that that that tank crew yeah danny akroyd john candy and guess who was driving the tank oh god i'm trying to remember you don't see him much mickey rourke mickey Rourke, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Great cast. It was lovely. Yeah. It was lovely. Walter Othewitz. We had a lot of fun.

I don't remember much of it, but I know we had a lot of fun. Oh, I see. It was one of those. No, it was just, it was a period when everybody was really having a lot of fun. And actually, we all worked very, very hard and did all the rehearsal. And it was fun. John and I became good friends. Belushi? Yeah. And I have to say, I don't get to say this much, you know, this whole drug thing about John. hard and did all the rehearsal and um it was fun john and i became good friends and actually yeah

and i have to say i don't get to say this much you know this whole drug thing about john we would go to martha's vineyard with our families and you know go clamming and drink beer and there was no drugs and there was a lot of there was a lovely side to john that that i think he's been known for being this sort of out of control drugcontrol drug addict. But he was – we should remember what an extraordinary talent he was and what a lovely man he was when he was not in the throes of Hollywood. When we were on Martha's Vineyard, he was delightful. And I remember my cousins were all at my house and John came over and he was very good about sort of surreptitiously letting him take pictures with him. And we went clamming and we grilled him up. And, you know, there were times with him

that it was really just two guys who liked being in the theater. It's a sad loss. He had a lot of talent. He had a lot of energy, a lot of passion, and good work was left to be done. Yeah. I mean, I think his death was a wake-up call for all of us to sort of get off the train.

And it was, you know, I think everybody goes was a wake-up call for all of us to sort of get off the train. And it was, you know, I think everybody goes through their crazy times. But, you know, he wasn't the only one. He just got unlucky and was a little bit more. The thing about John that was extraordinary was his acting showed the kind of, like, complete commitment to whatever he did. And I think that's probably the kid from Saturday Night Live, the other kid from Chris Farley. Same thing. Just an absolute kind of

if I do it, I'm going to do it 100%. Did Spielberg encourage a lot of it? No, never. Experimentation? Not drug use. Creative license among the actors. Let you take chances with things. I mean? No, not drug use. I mean creative license among the actors. Let you take chances with things.

Yeah. I mean, he was one of us. He was our age. So it was kind of odd. You know, he'd had this great success with Jaws. I think he was in new territory for himself. He was lovely to me. Lovely to all of us.

He was very respectful to all of us. We think it's an unfairly maligned film. I mean, it has so many good things in it. It doesn't work as a whole piece, but it has wonderful things in it. Well, I call it a kitchen sink comedy. Yeah, but it's a good one. I think Stevens should be forgiven for trying, you know, I mean, look, one of the things about American culture that I find unfortunate, when I went to England and I would go to the theater, I went to see all, because I wanted

to be a great theater actor. I had no interest in film so I went and saw Anthony Hopkins do Macbeth I saw wonderful performances by you know Gielgud and Richardson I saw Maggie Smith do Private Lives this was my senior year in college but one of the things I noticed about the English theater goes was they'd say oh god Anthony was awful in Macbeth awful I can't wait to see him in the next Shakespearean play at the National they were able to forgive failure in a way that it was just a part of the natural oh how interesting when you fail here it's as though you're done and I wish failure were accepted as it should be in life as a part of what we do. You're part of the process. We all fail.

And if we don't fail, we don't grow. What also always got me is when they'll give an actor a lot of credit when he tries something different. But then if he tries something different and it fails they they they're unforgiving yeah i don't understand it i think it should be when that's what the english audiences and critics are like it failed but i understand why you know they had these guys used to be called dramaturgs and they would they would describe a failure as a learning tool not as that guy should never get on stage again or he's just so bad. Remember that we all used to look forward to reading those reviews by John –

Simon. Simon, and they were horrific. He would destroy women's facial features. I think the English weren't like that. They just really loved theater. Where did you get that bit where you would change your face? Stephen. I don't think I'd do it if I had my druthers. I thought it was a little too cartoony, but Stephen had this concept

of it being that the movie was kind of like, he said to me when we first met, he said, I kind of see this as being like a Roadrunner cartoon. Oh, because it's pretty broad. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, you know, there are things you look back on and say, you know, I would have said, Stephen, I just think it's not organic, you know. And, you know, I did it because Stephen asked me to. And I think, you know, if you go back to something, you say, I'd really like. I think you're one of the best things in that movie. Thank you. But I think there are things I'd like to do again.

But I must say when I do something broad, I'm committed to it. You know, I mean, I think I'm the only actor in american film who ever tried to justify eating shit for money in prison and kind of got away with it and things to do in denver right and then describe the consistency yes who's ever done that critical bill is quite a creation spongy okay have you seen this movie gil you need to see it no yeah i'll make you watch you haven't seen it yeah i have to go now you also pop up in a movie i don't know where or what scene or anything but you're in marathon man no i'm not he said i don't know what that's about yeah oh but i will tell you what i am and i'm not in marathon man i No. Runner or whatever. They credit you as runner, unknown runner.

I don't know. Oh, sure you're not. Oh, maybe I ran through a shot and they saw me. I don't know. Maybe I was jogging. Ran through a shot. But I did go to England. Yes, well, Carrie.

After Cannes to visit Carrie. And I have pictures to show you. You can put them up if you ever do a TV version of this. And she said, why don't you run through a shot as an extra just as a joke? And I did. And then I said, okay, let's go have a beer and she said no no no you're you're now you're in it you're in for the for this whole sequence so for three or four hours i had this costume on and i ran through the shots and i have myriads if you go online treat williams carrie fisher there are myriads of pictures of us in the empire strikes back i have never gotten more requests for

autographs than i have for my two seconds. I'm going to watch it tonight. What are you wearing? You dressed as a stormtrooper? I don't think the question is appropriate. Sorry. We're on radio. Forgive me.

Let me ask you. I can't see you behind the curtain. What are you wearing? White taffeta. I can show you a picture momentarily. I'd love to see it. I had on the helmet and the thing. Oh, so you were a stormtrooper. Whatever they're called. I can show you a picture momentarily. I'd love to see it. I had on the helmet and the thing. Oh, so you were a stormtrooper.

Whatever they're called. I don't know. I wish I'd never done it. You're still getting mail about this? Not now. Oh, okay. Everybody who wrote about it was dead. Wow.

But I'm the only one left. Wow. Let's talk about hair and your audition. Because Beverly told me a story about you grappling with one of the producers and wrestling him to the floor. It's in Milos' book. Yeah, because you were fed up with auditioning. Well, it's a bit dense, but I will tell you the story.

Jerry Ragney and Jim Rado wrote it. Sure. Jerry Ragney used to hide behind the seats. I was starring in Grease on Broadway as Danny Zuko. And after the show, Jerry would pop up behind the seats. So it was obvious that he was interested in my kind of enthusiasm and energy. Very few have the kind of energy that I have,

which is kind of bizarre. I wish I had seen you in that. It was fun. And when I went to meet Milos, the first meeting, I was actually very angry because everybody from Superstar was going in and I couldn't get an audition. And I finally, Milos came and saw Grease and I was asked to come in. And he said to me when he met me,

Trita, I saw you in Grease last night with Mikhail Berishnikov and you do something very few American actors ever do. You go completely overboard. And I didn't know if he was complimenting me or just making an observation about my bizarre sort of approach to the work. And that began a series of dance auditions, singing auditions, acting auditions. We'd go to his apartment, and I would act probably with seven or eight different groups of people. In fact, I found out Deborah Winger came up to me and said,

did you know that I screen tested with you just before Beverly came out? And I said, I said, I was so terrified. I can't remember the day. I was absolutely, I wanted it so badly, you know. So I had done that screen test and that was my 11th, I think, audition. And they were casting hair and the play and the movie at the same time. And I went into this audition where Twyla and Galt McDermott and Jerry and Ragney and Jim Rado and Milos were all in the room. And I was asked to do this monologue in the play of Burger. Because I didn't know if I had the movie, so I was auditioning for it. So I did the monologue.

And as I was doing the monologue, I removed every article of clothing on my body and I finished the monologue stark naked. Milos doesn't put that in the book and I finished the monologue and they were all just staring at me naked and I said this is all I've got. I've given you guys 12 auditions this is really all I've got. I don't know what you want from me to choose me so it's all I've given you guys 12 auditions. This is really all I've got. I don't know what you want from me to choose me. So it's all I've got. And during the process, I realized that Jerry was conflicted. He wanted the role for himself because he had created it for himself, but he was 10 years too old. So he wanted me to do it, but he didn't want to give it up. How interesting. When I finished the audition, he came out and with this big smile on his face

and said that was amazing man that was so great and i was enraged and i grabbed him by the neck and i threw him on the floor no i'm serious i heard the story and milish put it in a way that was lovely i didn't want to hurt him but i wanted him to know how angry i was that he was fucking around with my head and that's what i said i said was fucking around with my head. And that's what I said to him. I said, you're fucking with my head, man. And then he got angry because he was embarrassed. And we got into this kind of pissing match. And I put my clothes back on.

And I said, fuck you. Fuck this film. Fuck everybody. I don't want anything to do with this anymore. I'm done. And I was crying. I mean, I was really emotionally distraught because I had wanted it so badly. And I felt that I'd been pushed beyond, you know, what I had to

show to get it. What else could I do? And Milos grabbed me before I walked out and said, Tree, Tree, come here. Come on, calm down. He took me in a room. He said, calm down. He said, you're going, I'm going to give you the role of Berger in the film. But I can't promise it to you right now because I have to fight with seven different entities. Sure. But I want you for the movie. And he said, so don't take the play.

They're going to offer you the play because they were doing a revival. And I said, well, does that mean I have the movie? He said, no, but don't take the place. Did that calm you down some? Oh, yes, of course. I knew that he wanted me. At that point, he said, I want you.

I was up against, believe it or not, John Belushi and I believe that Richard Gere was up for it. There were a lot of guys that were up for it. At that point, it wasn't about being competitive. It was about, at some point, you really do have some part of you that says, I'm not going to take any more of this. You've put me through too much.

That's interesting. So it was a wonderful experience, and I never want to go through it again. Your greatest film experience, you said. It was the best film I've ever been. I think Prince is a wonderful film, but in terms of naturalness and being a part of something that's the the changed american musical theater yeah i think that's the one i'd say if you only interestingly milosh when he had friends over who'd seen of course his great films they they'd seen amadeus and they'd seen cuckoo's nest he

would always show his guests at home in connecticut hair i mean in summer what are you going to do you want to watch a musical right Right, right, right. But it's really a lovely... Holds up very well. And the ending breaks your heart. You know, I was thinking, today I said to the guys who fell in love with it, these young guys who'd never seen it,

when you listen to old singers from the 20s, and they sound like they're a million miles away, it's the 20s. I can name you some of the singers who sang in a way that was so odd. Like Rudy Valli, you mean? Yes, exactly. Same period, Rudy Valli. Listen to Rudy Valli.

It's some period in some strange place. You listen to Fats Waller, and he's right next to you on the piano. It's present. It's now. It's a guy who's in your face with his voice and music. And hair feels like that to me. We aren't being... It's present. It's now. It's a guy who's in your face with his voice and music. And hair feels like that to me.

We aren't being, it's not period. It's people with real feelings that are really present and really kind of contemporary. And Cheryl Barnes singing Easy to Be Hard is one of those gorgeous things I've ever seen on film. It's beautiful. And I like the changes. Frank said to me, you're not going to ask Street to do this, are you? And I said, fuck you. I am. No, I'm not going to take all my clothes off.

I want to sing Age of Aquarius with you. Is that the one you want to do? Yes, yes. I don't think I know. I never sang it in the movie. He sings Good Morning Starshine in the movie. Okay. Who, me?

I sing seven songs. Yeah. Okay. This is going to be really embarrassing. Are we going to be playing the music? Is there music? Yeah. I think there is.

I've got to carry on the track. Is there music? There is. This is the one we want to do? Yes. Listen, I'll do it. By the way, I have to tell you, in my history of movies, I just finished... Okay, I just finished co-starring with Dolly Parton in a Christmas musical movie.

Cool. And Christine Baranski. And I took it because I said, I've got to do a movie musical every 40 years just to kind of keep things sharp. Absolutely. So here we go. I'm not sure how sharp this will be. Are you going to play music? Are you going to sing?

No. Why not? I'm just going to watch you two. Who's going to come in first? I'm going to to watch you two. Who's going to come in first? I'm going to watch the two pros. Who's going to come in first? Are you kidding? Let's both at the same time.

All right. Go ahead. Here we go. Turn it up. Why don't you let... Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Stop that thing.

Stop that thing. Hold on. Why? That's for the do the... This is... Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Stop that thing. Stop that thing. Hold on. Why? That's for the fucking Broadway show. Where's the movie music? All he's got is karaoke. Oh, for God's sake. That's what we have.

All right. So then now... Don't come on my podcast and be a fucking pain in the ass. All right. All right. I'll do it. Why don't you let Tree do the first part? No, let's do it together.

Only because I love you. Okay. Okay. But I only love you tonight. Tomorrow, we're done. Yes. Okay, here we go. All bets are off.

All right, here we go. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Can you sing? Oh, brilliantly. Oh, boy, it's going to be a cheerio. Oh boy, it's going to be a interior. When the moon is in the seventh house And Jupiter aligns with Mars Then peace will guide the planets

And love will steer the sun. This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius. Aquarius. Age of Aquarius. Aquarius. Aquarius. Affleck Harmony and understanding

Here we go Harmony and understanding Gold and lead Dreams of vision Crystal revelation And a mind to liberation Aquarius Aquarius And mine's your liberation. Aquarian.

Aquarian. You know what? You're starting to look like a parrot. That's yelling Aflac. That's my Gilbert Gottfried. Not bad. Let the sunshine. Let the sunshine in. The sunshine.

The sunshine. I'm Gilbert Gottfried singing here. That's me. Sunshine. I'm Gilbert Gottfried singing here. That's me. Sunshine Aquarius. This is never going to get on the air. Oh, this is funny. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. Loeb and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27,

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You're a good sport. We're done. I want you to tell me about meeting Jimmy Stewart since we brought him up. And you also met Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Gene Kelly. Well, it was Night of 100 Stars. Wow. And I was 112. Okay.

There was one extraordinary night. I was doing Pirates of Penzance in New Yorkork and i saw you do pirates of penzance all these guys were there and uh i got to this thing and i was just it was it was really bizarre to be seeing all the guys i'm watching on film but they all sat quietly orson well sat in a chair well he sat in about four chairs he was so big you know and i just was, there's Lucille Bull and there's, and one of the things

that was interesting, here I was with Jimmy, with Jimmy Stewart and Orson and all these guys that were, you know, extraordinary stars of the period

and they were going to bring Jimmy Cagney up on, he was already sort of really kind of old and frail so they put him down on,

at Radio City Musical, you know, they have that thing that comes up onto the stage. What do you call that? A lift, an elevator. And Jimmy was down there, and they put him down, and they left him there, and he was alone. Oh, Christ. And everybody went,

where's Jimmy? And we went, oh my God, Jimmy's downstairs on the thing. Well, is anybody looking after him? I don't know. So we all all went down and he was sitting in a chair crying because he'd been abandoned and he couldn't move he couldn't get out of the chair oh my gosh so we all sat with him and stayed with him until the chair went up but they were all you know they were just a bunch of guys who'd done well and and now or later part of their career and this thing was meaningless to them it was like you know another i'm here them. It was like, you know, another fundraiser. Yeah, fundraiser.

You know, but it was really an honor to meet. As a matter of fact, one of the great conversations I had with somebody was they said, you know, they had this great tribute to Alfred Hitchcock in Los Angeles. And everybody was there, you know, Cary Grant and all the people. Oh, was this the AFI tribute? Yeah, back in LA. And they said, but of course, everybody who went to that thing, who attended it, all the actors and everybody was there are dead.

And I said, no, they're not. And they said, no, they're all dead. It was like, you know, it was 50 years ago. I said, they're not all dead. How do you know that? I said, because I was there. I was one of the young actors who had gotten invited, and I was staring at all these extraordinary people. Everybody who'd worked with Hitch i was there i was one of the i was one of the young actors who got invited and i was staring at all these extraordinary people everybody who'd worked with hitchcock was there

it was really great to be a part of that transitory period where the mantle was being handed off from the 50s stars 50s and 60s stars who'd moved on to television at some point some with success and some not you know jimmy stew Stewart's television shows never had success. I know. Yeah, shame. Yeah. We had Tippi Hedren here, actually, on the podcast. Oh, God. What a great film. Kim Novak's still with us.

Oh, I know. Eva Marie Saint is still with us. I know. I just worked with who stars in the new television series about the family that runs the TV studios. Oh, what are you talking about? Succession. Brian Cox. Brian and I just did a film that's coming out this fall. And Brian said he was doing a Shakespeare talk at USC.

And he looked at the audience and he froze. There was Eva Marie Saint there to listen to him discuss Shakespeare. He said, I was never so sort of shocked and pleased. Did you meet Alec Ennis when you did the Empire thing? I never met him, but he's my favorite actor. I read both his books. Yes, I saw that. One is Blessings in Disguise, and the other is My Name Escapes Me.

He is probably one of the great character actors, if not the best character actor in English history. He's great. You gave me a perfect segue. We love character actors on this show. And we've had a bunch of them. Bruce Dern has been here. Who else have we had? Laura and I did a beautiful film together called Smooth Talk.

Yes, you did Smooth Talk. Griffin Dunn was here. Tim Matheson was here. We love those. Tim is in the movie that I did with Brian Cox. There you go. Peter Riegert was here. Peter Riegon was here. We love those. Tim is in the movie that I did with Brian Cox. There you go. Peter Riegert was here.

Peter Riegert and I have worked together, too. We love character actors. You work with some great ones. Am I considered one? At an occasional leading man. No, we don't consider you an actor. I have to go. I think I said that three or four times already.

Tell us about directing Charles Durning. Yes. You know, you want to talk about... My manager called me and said, you're going to get a chance to direct a short film. And I said, oh great. And they're doing it for, I think it was Showtime. He said, and you know, five actors get to direct movies.

And he said, and you're going to direct a film written by David Mamet. And I said, oh great. and he said um and you're gonna and you're gonna direct a film directed by uh written by david mamet and i said oh great and he said the only thing is david mamet doesn't know it yet okay and i had worked with david in a lot of stuff and he did water engine i called dave up and oh i'd done theater with him too yeah and i said listen i got a coattails question for you i've been offered to direct a movie, a short film, you know, but the only thing is you have to write it. And I started to talk, and he said, he talks like this.

That's great. That's very cute. What would you like? What do you think it should be about? I said, well, I know something about airplanes. Okay, give me two weeks. Two weeks later, he sent me a script, and we made it, and it won three film festivals.

It's called Texan. Yes. It's a lovely little film. Dabney Coleman? Well, you know, it was wonderful. I first offered it to Gene Hackman, and the agent wrote back and said, he works for money,

which I thought was the best response from an agent. That's phenomenal. That's a great response. I've not been able to say that yet, but I will one day. That's a great one. So I got Dabney, that yet, but I will one day. That's a great one. So I got Dabney, who I ended up co-starring with in the series a couple years later. But Dabney and Charlie and Dana Delaney and Billy Macy. And I'm in it myself.

And it was an extraordinary experience. And we used my airplane, which was great because I get to fly over to the island off of L.A. And it was really watching Charlie and Dabney do those scenes that David wrote, they really understood. You know, Dave Mamet writes the way people talk. And if you can't do – Mamet to me is like the violin. If you play it badly, it is really the worst sound on earth. And if it's played well, it's the most beautiful sound on earth.

And David writes the way people talk where i'm telling you something and i say you know the thing i think about here's the deal i you know this is what i think so people stop themselves and start up and david writes that rhythm of people talking like people think and talk and if you can't do that naturally it doesn't work charlie and those two guys did it with great panache, and they were gorgeous in it. That's why it probably won these festivals, not for my directing. And it was wonderful. It was really, Dabney particularly, really got Mamet's sort of rhythm and speech. Everybody was great.

It was fun. We love those actors. What about somebody we had here, Don Murray? Your first film. Don Murray was great. It was fun. We love those actors. What about somebody we had here, Don Murray? Your first film. Don Murray was great. I was just a kid starting out, but my favorite thing about Don Murray was I didn't study people like I do now.

I studied the young actors and know what they've done before I walk on, so I scare them with the fact that I know who they are. They don't know who I am. But Don had this jean jacket he wore to work every day, and there was these strings on the shoulder, like gold strings sewn in. And I said,

what are those strings on the shoulder of your jean jacket? He said, oh, I did a movie where I had a rope around my shoulder. And I said, what movie did you have a rope around your shoulder? He said it was called Bus Stop. It was Marilyn Monroe and I. And I was like, you work with Marilyn Monroe? Yes. Oh, yeah. He said it was called Bus Stop. It was Marilyn Monroe and I. And I was like, you work with Marilyn Monroe? He told us about it.

He was a nice guy. He's still with us. Yeah. I meant he was not making him dead. Yes, yes. I was a nice guy. May he rest in peace. No, I meant, I can't get out of this. I meant he was nice to me during the filming. He was found dead in his L.A. apartment. But I have to say, the guy who got involved with the Heidi, Heidi, what's her name?

Heidi Fleiss? Heidi Fleiss' boyfriend was the director. Oh, my gosh. Ivan Nagy was his name. And I loved it because I'd never done, I think it was my first movie. Yes, I think it was. So they would say, you know, rolling, and Sam would say speed,

and I'd expect him to go action, you know, and I'd wait for the action, and I'm all ready to go. It's my first movie, and I hear this Polish voice go Okay, boys, let's boogie! And I was like, okay. That was his direction. Does that mean I'm supposed

to start? Is it? Go ahead, Gil. You know, direction. Does that mean I'm supposed to start? What about one of Gil? Go ahead, Gil. You know, it's funny. When you were talking about David Mamet, that was another thing I think of people who don't understand. When people make fun of David Mamet, they'll just have the characters saying dirty words. And they don't realize there's a whole rhythm. Oh, yeah.

It's musical. To listen to Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. Yeah. It's like, it's... No, David's language. I just did last summer, I did American Buffalo. Yes. And David's understanding of comedy is what, you know, apparently the English production had no laughs,

which blows my mind, because I think it's one of the funniest plays I've ever been in. And the opening scene, Teach comes out and does a diatribe about fucking Ruthie. And he's just furious because he took a piece of her toast on the table and she called him out for it publicly. And he's obviously one of those very violent guys who's oversensitive. So he does like a three-page diatribe you know about ruthie and it's it's violent and it's loud and it's it's it's insane and then he sits down opposite his friend and there's a pause in the after this violent

diatribe and he goes so what's new and it gets this howl if it's done correctly but if you don't do it right the audience doesn't know what the hell's going on i when when i was like struggling to get any kind of work and i would i still am yeah i would do like the improv and catch at night for no money yeah but during the early evening hours i had i got a job working the concessions in the broadway theaters you know selling the grape drinking and t-shirts and one of the plays that was playing when i was working the concessions was matter of gravity now with katherine hepburn and christopher reese and american buffalo with robert duval john savage yeah john savage and kenneth mcmillan kenny mcmillan who milo loved working with by the way yeah he's great in ragtime yeah by the way i

have to go back a second because i auditioned. Chris and I were both up for that play. Really? And I was late to my audition with Katharine Hepburn. Oh. And I don't know why I was late, but I was late. And when I walked in, Hepburn looked at me and said, Mr. Williams, you're late. And I said, I'm sorry, Miss Hepburn.

She said, when I was late late my father used to beat me I didn't know where to go I was done I remember Catherine Hepburn would come in before the audience was allowed in yet and she'd walk around she liked us to keep

some of the doors open to get air in the theater. And one day we came in and we hadn't opened the doors yet. And she walked in and looks around at the doors. And she yells out in this empty theater, The doors are closed, morons. Wow. Gilbert Gottfried and Catherine Hepburn.

Talking about walking around a theater, my favorite thing, I'd just come to New York and I'd finally gotten the lead in Grease on Broadway after a year of being here. And it was the most extraordinary thing. It was just to be on Broadway

starring in a Broadway musical. And I didn't know anything. I was just starting. I was going to acting class. But every night, I would be the last one out of the theater. I was just so excited. And I would walk know anything. I was just starting. I was going to acting class. But every night, I would be the last one out of the theater. I was just so excited. And I would walk out onto the stage, and there was always one light.

It was the stage light. It was just this one light. And I used to just sort of feel the energy that had been in the house just 20 minutes before, just kind of dissipating in the house. And I used to just look out at the house. It was like church. And you go out and go, wow, this is a very, very beautiful thing that we get to do.

You know, I still feel that way. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. The Royale Theater. It's not the Royale anymore. It's named after somebody. You do that, Gil? Do you stay behind in the comedy club and soak up the...

You'd be there until six in the morning and wait to leave. Another play that I was doing the concessions at, Richard Burton and Equus. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. He was uneven, but when he hit it, boy, he was hitting it good. Gilbert sold you your snow caps that night. Yes.

You may not remember. No, I do. I didn't like you very much. I did not like you. You were very rude and dismissive. I tried to tell you about how good I was going to be down the road and you had nothing to do with me. One of Gilbert's favorite actors you worked with,

Ben Gazzara. I believe he directed you in something. Any memories of the great Ben Gazzara? Yes. Okay, we're moving on. Martin Landau. Martin Landau, yeah. Which? Who? Who? Who? Ben Gazzard? It was not a good time for

a band. We had on Dick Cavett, and when Husbands came out, he brought on the cast of John Cassavetes, Ben Gazzard, and Peter Falk. No, they got plastered on the air. And they came across like total

assholes. It was sad. You know, I was No, they got plastered on the air. And they came across like total assholes. Yeah. It was sad. I was at the point where I really wanted to make a good movie, and I really liked Ben enormously. We've all had our bad nights, but Ben had a bad night every night on the film, and it was actually kind of sad.

I think Ben had a style of life where he would drink too much and he'd go to Florida and dry out. And then he'd be okay for a year or so. And then, you know, it was too bad because it was a nice group of people. But we met our best friends in England and still are very close to them. So good things happen. What about Landau or Glenn Ford? Love Marty Landau. Yeah.

Love Marty Landau. There are great things about him. Actually, this is. Back to Hitchcock. Okay, back to Hitchcock. So I did a film last year with Jennifer Lopez called Second Act. You mentioned it. And we went out to Long Island.

And it was weird because I, as I said, I was a preppy from, I taught sailing as a kid. And we were at this, we were doing a scene where we were doing eight man skulls. And I went, I know this place. Well, I realized I'd raced sailboats at this yacht club when i was a kid and then we stayed at this place and i looked at the house it was this big house in long island i said i know this it was the house they used for carrie grant and hitchcock's film how cool by northwest wow and we stayed in the house from north by northwest and as you well know Marty was there

when the alcohol got poured down one of the funniest, most comedic, scary scenes when he drives the car on the cliffs, where there are no cliffs in Long Island it's all on the PCH but Marty was a wonderful person to work with I got the James Dean stories

they were best friends we were shooting in Eastern Europe. And he's one of the real great early actors who cared about the work and still did. He's wonderful. And by the way, when I had not met him at all and I was nobody, I was doing The Eagle Has Landed. And my son, my, was it my, no, I didn't have a son. It must have been my nephew loved this tv show he was in that was like space stuff space 1999 thank you and he gave me a couple of the fake

you know ray guns uh-huh very cool he was very very generous and lovely uh good guy that's an early role too for you eagle has landed with uh michaine and Donald Sutherland third film Bob Duvall who I ended up co-starring with Duvall you did a lot with D.B. Cooper yeah that was my third film

with John and John Sturgis who I I was always the kid that wanted to sit at the feet of the master I would go these guys were all

going out chasing girls I would have dinner with John Sturgis I had more dinners with Sergio Leone during the making of Once Upon a Time in America

we got to ask about that too. And how you fell asleep in the middle of a take. Well, that was extraordinary. Bob De Niro had to wake me up. Listen, we were all out late at night and it took the Italians to take forever to light and, you know, I was in this comfy

hospital bed with nice pillows and, you know, after two years they're, you know, they're two, excuse, after two years, they're, you know, excuse me, after two hours, they're ready to shoot. Nobody said, better check treat. Are you ready? I was out cold. You know, and I just remember Bob,

I see Bob De Niro shaking my shoulder, smiling at me. I'm going, hey, what's up? He's like, you know, we're in a scene. Would you like to say some words? And you got to shoot at Chinatown where they shot everything. Chinatown. Yeah, Chinatown. Would you like to say some words? And you got to shoot at Cine Tito where they shot everything. Cine Città. Yeah, Cine Città. Is that how they say it?

Cine Città. Cine Città. And I learned to speak Italian because I did about 10 movies after that, so I became quite good at Italian. That is a wild movie with a lot going on. Yeah, four hours. Yeah. I loved Sergio Leone.

I mean, working with the Italians was like watching people paint great paintings. Every department was an art department. The wardrobe was an art department. Even the poster is one of the most beautiful posters I've ever seen. Wasn't he more interested in the visuals while making that film than the performances? For a guy who didn't care about performance, we did a lot of takes. I think he cared about performance. It's sort of sad how they cut the film.

They took the film away from him. They put it back, though. It's one of those things where I honor that film. There's some very tough scenes to watch. The rape scene is horrific. Even the scene where you're having the gasoline poured on you is hard to watch.

I had gasoline that day. So there was no acting required, as Cary Grant used to write, NAR on scenes. No acting required. Love that. And I'm going to make Gilbert watch things to do in Denver when you're dead, because your character... Just remember the word spongy. Critical Bill is quite an invention.

Yeah. That whole movie. Gary, that was a wonderful script by Scott. Scott Rosenberg. Lovely script. Yeah, yeah. He created a language. Yeah.

Like the Coen brothers do. Chungo Dinge. Yeah, like a Miller's Crossing. How do you call somebody a Chungo Dinge? I don't know. That movie is nuts from start to finish. I loved that part. And everybody's doing really good work.

I had more fun with that role. I always love it. If I get a character part where I'm chewing scenery, I'm happy. Well, you do play a good psycho, I must say. Well, it's, you know, somebody asked my wife, he said, how did he get to that? She says, what are you talking about? He's like that at home.

That's who he is. Will you take Gilbert up in one of your planes? Sure. I'd love to. You know he's a of your planes? Sure. I'd love to. I'd be honored. You know he's a pilot, Gil. Yes. I'd be honored.

I heard about that. Beverly said you took her up. I flew Bob De Niro and Chris Walken to Cuba. Wow. My God. I flew Harvey Keitel from San Francisco

down to LA. I've flown everybody. We're going to let this man go home. This was fantastic. Thank you. And I think my new favorite episode.

When the moon is in the seven pounds. How do you make a career out of that? That's a really good question. I don't want to do what you do. You do nothing. You yell and you make money. I want this guy's career, okay? I want to talk like this and make a million dollars.

One last impression for you. You familiar with an actor named John MacGyver? Yeah. Sure, hit him, Gil. Everything in this company must be run according to schedule. We will have no slackers here. What did you think? Every.

All right, I'm going to do one. I'm not going to say who it is. I'm going to take it out of their skulls. Nice. Treat us, Brando. So much more to ask you, but we've got to get out of here. Will you come back and play with us another time? No. Okay, good. Yes, of course. You you come back and play with us another time? No.

Okay, good. Yes, of course. You were fun. Thanks. What a blast. Oh, my God. All right. Gil, wrap the show.

The man has to go home. Gil, wrap the show, Gil! The engineer has to go home. Why don't you wrap it up as Gilbert Gottfried? I don't know. Give me the words and I'll do it.

Give me the words. Yeah, this is Gilbert Gottfried. Here. Give me the words to read. Write it down. I You have to. This is Gilbert Gottfried. Here. Give me the words to read. Write it down. I'll do it for you. I know what you're saying. I'll do it.

You've got this part. Gilbert Gottfried has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal. Let's see if they can tell it's me or you. Okay. There you go. Okay. That's the name of the show. All right.

This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. Thank you for listening. Treat Williams, we love you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Beverly. Blow it, show it, long as God can blow it by

Let it fly in the breeze and get caught in the trees Give a home to the fleas in my hair A home for fleas, a hive for the buzzing bees A nest for birds, there ain't no words for the beauty, the splendor, the wonder of my hair Blow it, show it Long as God can blow it by hand I want it long, straight, curly, fuzzy Snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty

Oily, greasy, fleecy, shining Cleaming, steaming, flaxen, waxen Pounded, polka dotted Twisted, faded, braided Pounded, borrowed, and confetti Tangled, tangled, tangled And spaghetti Oh, say can you see My heart

If you can Then my hair's too short Down to here, down to there, down to there Down to where it stops by itself I'm a dog, I have to go, go When they see me in my toga My toga made of blonde Brilliant chain, biblical hair I'm Mr. Toggle. Go ahead, show it, long as I can grow my hair. Go ahead, show it, long as I can grow my hair. Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Godfrey and Frank Santapadre, with audio

production by Frank Furtarosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.