Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 4. Paul Shaffer

Episode Date: June 21, 2014

Musician, comedian, actor and composer Paul Shaffer was heavily influenced by the musical (and comedy) acts he grew up watching on "The Ed Sullivan Show," so it was only fitting that we interviewed him in the "Ed Sullivan Room" of the famed New York Friars Club. Not many people can say they worked with James Brown, John Belushi, Sammy Davis, Jr., Jerry Lewis, Brian Wilson, Chevy Chase, Mickey Rooney AND the infamous Phil Spector, but Paul has -- and he shares memorable anecdotes about every one of them. Also, Gilbert and Paul discuss their mutual obsession with a certain Cindy Crawford/Valerie Bertinelli infomercial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Because the Skip app saves you so much time by delivering stuff like your favorite cool treats, groceries, and bevvies, you get more time to have the best summer ever. Like riding roller coasters. Learning to water ski.

Applying sunscreen to your dad's back. Yep, definitely the best summer ever. Squeeze more summer out of summer with Skip. Did somebody say Skip? Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried from Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Now, most of us know Paul Schaeffer as the musical director of The David Letterman Show, which he's been doing for, I think, a thousand years now. But did you know that every year he's the director and producer at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremonies? of rock and roll Hall of Fame induction ceremonies.

Did you know that he helped create the Blues Brothers with John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd? And he was the musical director of the House Band for Saturday Night Live for several years. And he was the musical director of Godspell. He has worked with everybody in show business over the years. Sammy Davis Jr., Jerry Lewis, Bob Dylan, you name it, he's worked with them. You realize why David Letterman hired him and kept him all these years. He's fast, he's funny, he's witty,

and best of all, he's a friend of mine, and he's here now, Paul Schaefer. It's Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and a special guest we have on the show today, a friend of mine and a very talented performer, Mr. Paul Schaefer. Thank you so much, Gilbert, for that marvelous introduction.

And Frank Santopadre. Yes. How did you get him? Yeah. There was a lot of begging involved. Yeah, well, this is going to be a good... You guys are an easy crowd. Easy audience.

Okay. Now, of course, my interviewing skills are to just turn it to me as best as possible. So let's talk about the first time I did the Letterman. First time you did the Letterman show. Well, you know, a lot of guys are nervous when they do the show, and they can't wait to get on, and they jump their cues, and they don't wait for laughs. They're not relaxed.

You were the opposite. I usually give the comics a choice of what music they want. Because I figure they have to come out and work and do their act. So they should have the music they want. Everybody else, I decide the music. But for the comics, I i say what do you want and i asked you that question what music do you want when you come out and you said well i was thinking about um the theme song uh from um thick of the night i said well i love that you know you were you were a uh you were on thick of the night. I said, well, I love that. You know, you were on thick of the night.

You were a member of the rep company. Yes, with Richard Belcher. With our mutual friend Richard Belcher. And there was, of course, the part, several weeks running, there was a running gag, if you will. You were up in the rafters. Yeah, in the kitwook. You refused to come down.

Gilbert won't come down. He's in the kitwook. He won't come down. That's when they try retooling, man. They tried retooling that show every week. Yes. And so I finally came up with this idea. You're the guy who lives in the catwalk.

I see. He won't come down. No. So we decided then on my theme music from Thick of the Night and my season of Saturday Night Live, my two biggest failures. Well, I thought that that would be funny, since Thick of the Night had flop. Once you came down, they were off the air.

And then the same, you did one season of Saturday Night, and that was a terrible flop, too. Yes. Was it even an entire season? You said, so why not a medley of both of those songs, my two big flops, for when I come out? I said, well, you know, you only got like six minutes. If I do a medley, it's like you're going to be out there,

and I'll just be going into the second song. You said, well, I'll just wait. And you did. You came out and just very patiently waited until I did the entire medley of your two flops in a row. And then you, how's everybody doing tonight? You went on. And I've never, you know, respected a man more than I did you that evening.

Did people really know the Thick of the Night theme? I don't think anybody knew either. I don't think Alan Thicke knew it. No. No, he didn't. Although he wrote it. Running in the Thick of the Night. You want to do a duet?

Yeah. Mama don't leave the light on. I'm on the road tonight. And we do a dueling of Canadian accents. And then there was the bridge. Everyone needs a dream to hold on. I'm going to make it on my own. Running in the thick of the night.

What did that have to do with a talk show, though? Yeah. Everyone needs a dream to hold on to. So I guess his dream was this talk show. Getting a talk show. Well, I suppose so. But I think he just subscribes to the tenant, the songwriting tenant.

When you're stuck, just go into Everyone Needs a Dream. You know? It's the American Idol way of songwriting. Follow your dreams. He was way ahead

of his time, really, because now they're all about follow your dreams. He was into it back in the 80s. He was a renaissance man. He could do everything. He could, and Friday night, as you remember, party night.

Oh, yeah. That's when he would roll the sleeves up of his jacket. Yes. Yeah, and that's when you know it's party night when a guy will roll the sleeves up of his jacket. I'm not talking about his shirt sleeves. The actual jacket sleeves would go up, you know. Serious.

Yeah. Yeah, that's how you know. You're a party animal. Yeah, it's party night, yeah. So that was the first time that you did Letterman. Yes. I played that music. I don't know when it was that we first met.

Yeah. I think that's the first time we actually had a real out-and-out conversation. Well, and this is the second. It's going very well. Yeah, I think so, too. Thank you, George Fenneman.

Nice to have George Fenneman on. You flatter me, Paul. Thank you. Well, you're a lovely couple, and now it's time to play you by July. Yeah. Stay warm. That's what Charlie Chaplin told him. Told Groucho? Yes.

Stay warm. Yes. Well, he was right. When you get older, it's harder and harder to stay warm. That's why. That's the greeting for elderly people. Yeah. Now, I'll just hit you with a bunch of things. Let me have these things, and I'm going to give you the first thing that comes into my mind.

Go for it, Gilbert. Okay. Ed Sullivan. Well, you know, the greatest variety show ever in the history of television and a show which all of us of a certain vintage, you and I included, and I don't know about Frank Centropadre. He's half our age, Frank Centropadre. That's a slight.

But you heard, did you ever hear about a thing, the Ed Sullivan show? Very familiar with it, Paul. Uh-huh. Yeah. It was big in my Paul. Uh-huh. Yeah. It was big in my household, I'll tell you that, up in Canada. And it's a good thing, too, because Ed, week after week, he was, now, if I were to go to the United States and Canada, he would always take care of us people up in Canada.

Yeah, those of you up in Canada, because it was a syndication deal up there. He wanted to keep running up there, too. So, like every family, my family was in front of the television set at 8 p.m. sharp and watched the Ed Sullivan show. And, of course, for us kids, we had, you know, the latest

British Invasion Act, or before that, Bo Diddley. Remember that thing? Did you ever see it on YouTube? Ed Sullivan introduces Bo Diddley? And it's absolutely for real.

Now, up in Ed Schifrin's Apollo Theater, people have been going mad for this next gentleman who plays the kind of music which you call rhythm and color. Rhythm and blues. He couldn't think of rhythm and blues. He said rhythm and color.

Swear to God. But it was another time. And he had all those acts that he, well, Topo Gigio, of the little Italian mouse that he brought over. And do you know who wrote the Topo Gigio sketches? No. Miss Joan Rivers, ladies and gentlemen. Really? Wow. One of the ways she started out, at least if you believe her.

In an interview she gave just a little while ago, I wrote the Topo Gigio sketches for Sullivan. So she had a, Sullivan. Can you imagine? Speaking of Sullivan, Paul, tell Gilbert a little bit about, Rick, we were discussing it before you got here, Ricky Lane and Velvel. Yes, well, you saw everybody from

the Animals and the Dave Clark Five to Tessie O'Shea, the marvelous Irish Music Hall Act that he brought over. Our mutual friend Tom Leopold always talks about the chimps. And Bobby Baranzini's chimps. Yeah, we would see them. Right.

And then who was it? Oh, yes, Ricky Lane and Velvo, the Yiddish comic, Yiddish Ventolaquist. And the dummy was Yiddish, Velvo. Yiddish thing. You remember this, don't you, Gilbert? Ricky Lane and Velvet? Well, it happens that, and I would have been about 12 years old, 11 years old maybe at the time. Sullivan was the biggest, the United States and Canada.

Sullivan was the biggest the United States and Canada and Ricky Lane went on a Canadian tour selling Israeli bonds okay and he was going to come to Thunder Bay Ontario the Israeli bond drive

this year starring Ricky Lane and Velva well the whole town was up in arms everyone was so excited kids, adults alike. Jews and goyim alike, because Ricky Lane, the Sullivan Show was so big that Ricky Lane and Velva were above, you know, they blasted off right into ecumenicism. They had to, even though it was, you know, they knew they were probably only going to sell Israeli bonds to the Jews.

Nonetheless, this evening had to be opened up to Jews and goyim alike. The mayor was going to come, the Gentile mayor and everybody. The whole community was going to come. Now, it was an Orthodox synagogue where they were going to appear. So the food all had to be glot kosher. And that means they had to bring this food in from Winnipeg, Manitoba, because, you know, there wasn't exactly a glot kosher butcher in Thunder Bay. There may have been at one time, but not at this time.

So the food was being brought in from Winnipeg. And my parents feeling a little bit uncomfortable about their Gentile friends coming and having to eat kosher food and stuff. But they were keeping a stiff upper lip because it was all, you know, the most she-she of Goliath were going to come to this thing. And everybody was a little uptight. So comes the big evening, and it's huge. And a rabbi starts out selling bonds.

And once they get the business out of the way, then they're going to move into the entertainment. The rabbi gives his pitch, selling bonds and how much Israel needs the money. But it must have been a hard year because nobody's buying. And he says, you know, who's going to buy the first bond? Nobody put up their hand. Nobody is going to buy an Israeli bond. And the rabbi starts to flip out.

And he loses his temper. And he starts yelling at the congregation. You people, you don't know what the state of Israel and what it would be like. And he's red in the face. And he screams his guts out. And now,

ladies and gentlemen, Ricky Lane and Velva. Ricky's got to follow that and I remember so clearly seeing him down on his knees with his suitcase open because the dummy is in a suitcase and he's sticking his hands down on his knees sticking his hand up the you know what of the

dummy getting ready for his act and meanwhile he's saying, Rabbi, wow, this is what I've got to follow? Wow, I mean, no, really. I mean, Rabbi, don't feel too bad about it. I mean, wow, I've got to do calmly after that? Wow, I just... Don't worry, Rabbi, we'll talk to the people,

and I'm sure that we will. Wow, you know. That was his intro. I never forgot it. And now another person we're both fascinated by. Yes. Jerry Lewis. Yeah.

Well, I watched that telethon faithfully. 1976, of course, the greatest year, the year that Frank Sinatra brought Dean on as a surprise for Jerry. Oh, yeah. Who will ever forget it, right? Jerry didn't like it.

I don't think he liked it initially. He was caught off guard. Caught off guard. He doesn't really like surprises on his own show anyway. But boy, he had to. You know, Frank Sinatra, you are the kind of human being

that would bring on a man's enemy on his own show and surprise him. The kind of man that you are, you know, I'll get you for this. And he gave him what we used to call the Vegas fist. Just pretending. I'll get you.

I'll get you for this. You know, a fist that doesn't really mean anything. It seemed like Dean Martin was uncomfortable, too. Well, he... Oh. I'm sorry. I hate when that happens. You think Dean was uncomfortable?

What made you think so? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. He looked like he wasn't sure what he was doing. I don't know if he knew where he was. I don't think he was sure what he was doing i don't know if he knew where he was where he was but yeah by the way i want to reschedule this when we can be face to face that's another show that's a reference to another show yeah the audience here's the other show then they'll know what i mean

shecky green agreed to do my podcast, and he goes on and he goes, we're going to have to talk face to face. And he walked off. It was a six-minute podcast. Yeah. Well, some pods are bigger than others.

That's all. I was at this. I don't think I roasted him, but I was there. At the Chevy Chase. Yeah, I was on the dais of the Chevy Chase roast. The infamous Chevy Chase roast. Why didn't you roast him? I don't know.

I always like if I could be there. I've asked him a few times at these roasts. Can I just sit on the dais and not, I won't have any pressure. I can eat and just sit there and have my name yelled out. So you really go for the free lunch. Yes. Does that surprise you, Paul?

I've gone in the other direction. After I did my last roast, I was never asked again, well, you can sit on the dais, but just don't open your mouth. And I say, you know what, maybe not, but now I know I'll give my space to you. Yes. Because you want the free lunch.

They would never ask me anymore to speak. Not after that Chevy Chase thing, which was, well, let's put it this way. When you open up, as I did, I was the roast master, and I opened up with a song, which I think characterized the situation with the whole evening. The song was called We Couldn't Get Anybody Good. Because it was mainly people on the day that he didn't know. Young comedians, right? Yeah, young comedians.

Yeah, young comedians who took advantage. None of them knew him, but they all took advantage of the opportunity to really trash him. Not necessarily for laughs either, which I understand is what you do in a row. You trash the person. Ideally, there's some comedy.

But everyone loves each other so much that you can say anything about the guy. They didn't know him, so they felt they could say anything about him. And it really was a sort of a massacre. You remember it. Oh, yeah. And then there was that long speech at the end when Chevy finally gets up. Well, he didn't know.

First of all, he was taking notes all through yes i remember yeah taking notes and we thought when he finally gets up at the end he is going to put everybody away it looked that way he'd have rebuttal he had a smirk on his face and he would take notes and i thought oh he's gonna explode when he goes yeah and he had one he He did open strong. He said, I would thank all the comics, but I don't see a fucking one, honestly. Everyone enjoyed that. And after that, when he turned to Al Franken, and instead of saying, Al, you were hilarious,

he said, Jesus, Al. Wow. I know. You're not really going to get a laugh with a Jesus Al. Wow. Otherwise, though, he acquitted himself very nicely. I think he was a little shaken by it, though. And that was the last time I ever got to participate in a roast at the Fireside. Now, you also knew, oh, Brian Wilson.

Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys? Yes. Yeah. Brian is a genius. He had a rough upbringing. I don't think he makes a secret out of it. He took his share of psychedelic drugs and such. And whatever it was, you know, genius as he is, it left him talking a little bit like a Bill Murray character.

You remember Bill Murray's character, the honker? Yeah. Yes. Well, that's the way Brian talks. And I think it's just a defense mechanism. Whatever it is, was uh brian helped me with an album that i made in 1989 he and i collaborated on one cut on the album and i was supposed to move in that weekend with uh my wife kathy and i she we weren't married at the time

but we were about to move in together finally get a place together and she we were about to move in together, finally, get a place together. And she, we were going to move in together, but I said, honey, I got to go to the coast then and work with Brian Wilson. And she says, have a heart, you know, how can you do that? But, you know, when you, as you know, when you, when you got to go, you got to go. So now I am on the West Coast with Brian and we're in the studio and the song is, the more we work on it, the worse the song is getting. Sometimes that happens, you know, you can overwork a thing, and that's what was happening to us. It was getting worse and worse, and then Kathy calls up to the studio. I'm in the new apartment, honey, and the whole building is shaking.

It's a windstorm, and the building is oscillating and trembling and shaking from side to side. And I'm in the, you know, I'm trying to do a song with Brian Wilson, and she's 3,000 miles away, and I don't know what to do because the song I'm working on is getting worse and worse. So I look around, and what am I going to say? And I guess the perverse side of my personality took over, and I said, Brian, Kathy is in a new apartment all by herself, and the building is shaking. Can you see if you can? And I pass the phone over to Brian Wilson.

I just, I can't, I don't know what's going to happen, you know. But that's how perverse I am. And he takes the phone. He says, hey, Kathy. He says, you know, these tall buildings, you know, anything over 35 stories, it's kind of built to be elastic, you know. And it's supposed to give in the wind wind and that's the way, you know, and somehow he calmed her down, you know. As the honker, he said, okay, thanks, Brian.

I can go to bed now, honey, and that's happily ever after. So you never know what a rock and roll genius will do when he'll come through for you. And then he had that weird psychiatrist that lived with him who was claiming ownership of all of his songs.

Dr. Landy. Dr. Landy was on the scene when I was. He's no longer with The Living, apparently. Dr. Landy died. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. But yeah, he went from being Brian's therapist to being Brian's co-writer and producer and owning all of the material. And I had to deal with this.

Every day, things were getting worse and worse. It wasn't really the doctor, Dr. Landy, that was the scariest, but it was these little boys that he would send over to spy on Brian and call him surreptitiously so that he would know everything that was going on in the studio. You know, well, Brian, I hear you guys didn't come up with a second verse. How did you know that, Dr. Lenny? Oh, just a little bird told me. But really, these kids, and we called them the surf Nazis because that was almost like what they were like. They were spies. You know, they were Luftwaffe SS spies calling in. So every day I would get up and I was staying at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood and say, how am I going to face the studio again?

And I'd be down at the pool, you know, getting a little color. At least if I go in looking good, I'll feel better. And who would pulled up a chair right beside me by the pool? Tommy Toon. Wow. The Broadway legend. And he's seven feet tall. A Tommy Toon. Wow. The Broadway legend. And he's seven feet tall. A very long chaise lounge. Exactly. George Fenneman.

Long chaise lounge. Very funny. Thanks. I do what I can. Yeah. So I started talking to him. Tommy. I don't know. He's a guy. Brian Wilson. You may know you're more Broadway oriented, but there was a thing called surf music And the little old lady from Pasadena

And the thing, California Girls is so great And now there's a guy, Dr. Landy And he was his therapist And now he owns all the stuff And I don't know what to do Because now his girlfriend, Landy's girlfriend Wants to write the lyrics to the song What am I going to do, Tommy?

And Tommy said, embrace the doctor. Wow. That's it. The wisdom of Tommy, too. Yeah, we'll be right back. Wow. Yeah. Embrace the doctor.

That's it. That's all you have to know. Speaking of musicals. You know, I did a music video with the Beach Boys. They sang the theme song to Problem Child. Really?

And that was a movie that you starred in? Yes. Problem Child. Well, excuse me. Wow. I don't go to movies too much. Was that what it was? He's been holding out on me. Frank, was he in Problem Child? He was also in Problem Child 2,

Paul. Those are movies. Yeah, you missed them both. And I was in Problem Child 3. Yes. Those are movies. Yeah, you missed them both. And I was in Problem Child 3, a TV movie. Problem Child 3, Junior in Love. And John Ritter wouldn't do it, so they had William Catt, greatest American hero. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know who the kid was.

Okay. So getting back, the Beach Boys sang the theme song. The theme song. Yeah. How did it go? Okay. Na, na, na, na, na, na. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma.

Oh, yeah. Who wants to grow up? Who wants responsibility? Oh, no no not me who wants to show up and work until you're 93 now everybody says you're running wild. The teacher's calling you a problem. Ooh. That's when you say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, rather than saying child, they lead you. They're going to say problem child. They go problem. Ooh. Oh. Yes. Well, it's almost like child.

That's not blue. Is child a Dirty World? Maybe to some people. No, it made it one of those cool song choices. So then they were performing in the music video, and you were in the video, too? Yes. Playing the problem child?

No, they had the actual kid there. Oh, and what were you, the therapist? I was claiming ownership to the Problem Child theme. He's the Dr. Landy of Problem Child. Well, you should have been speaking to Tommy Toon about this. He would have said, embrace the doctor.

That's right. I'd like to have that as my slogan in life. Embrace the doctor. You can have it. I'll talk to Tommy Tune's people. Can we have embrace the doctor? Yeah, go ahead. Knock yourself out. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast.

But first, a word from our sponsor. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. As a podcast listener, you've heard from us before. Today, let's hear what members have told us. Sure. for the first time in weeks. You deserve to invest in your well-being. Visit BetterHelp.com to see what it can do for you. That's BetterHelp.com. Now, you also knew Phil Spector. Yes, he and I had a 20-year friendship, and we're still friends, as a matter of fact. I got a call from him after he was inducted

into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame back in the 80s. Well, not from him. You didn't really hear from him, but from an assistant. Mr. Spector wants to know if you'd like to hear some jazz music. And I didn't believe it could possibly be him. But it turned out to be him. And he was a lovely guy, almost obsequious in how polite he was. Always stand up if a lady got up to go to powder her nose, you know.

And, of course, one of my all-time greatest idols, rock idols ever, and still a genius. And terrible what's happened with him. But people, they separate the music from the musician, and they still talk about how wonderful that music is, and I still believe that it is. What did you think, or did you see the Al Pacino TV movie? Yeah, I did see it. All I can say is that when it opens up, Pacino

as Spector is ranting about the record Abraham, Martin, and John and about how they added the verse about Bobby as an afterthought. It's an afterthought. And I heard him do that

actual rant live. Wow. In one of those jazz clubs that we went to. So I don't know where this guy Mamet was, how he heard it. He must have been under the table with a tape recorder because I heard it live. And that's just an inkling of how accurate this thing was. I thought it was absolutely wonderful. And you thought Pacino did a good job?

Gino Salamone from Milwaukee? Gino Salamone gets a reference. You know Gino Salamone? Sure. Frank, how do you know? Who doesn't know him? Well, he's a guy who used to work in radio in Milwaukee. The name

has been bandied about. So did you think... Wait, he talks about him? Yep. Did he ever... Did Gino ever represent Gilbert? Gino has come up more than once or twice. How do you work him into the conversation?

Are you still in touch with him? Oh, yeah. Let's give Gino his due. Does he... Go ahead. No, I was going to say, did you think Al Pacino did a good job as Spector? And Gino. Gino directed him.

Yeah, I think he did a good job. I mean, one of the things is that there's a lot of tape now. There was a time when you couldn't. I played Spector in a live presentation back in the 80s, and I didn't know, you know, what does he sound like? I didn't know because you couldn't hear any tape. But now there's lots of video, and I think all that Pacino had to do was study him,

and he got him down, and he actually got him down. But he got him down. But let's get back to Gino Salamone. Well, I know he has a crush on Sandra Bullock. Do you have a theory about Sandra Bullock? Well, she's Jewish. Yeah, that's... That's not a theory.

Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. I don't know if Lewis is Jewish yet, but she's... Yeah, Sandra Bullock is Jewish. Now, how did you find out that Sandra Bullock was Jewish? Gino told me. Any more questions? I got to reschedule this. So we can be face to face.

Yeah, Gino has a crush on Sandra Bullock. And he used to say, live the dream or something, right? Yes. Believe in the dream. And the dream was that he was going to get to marry Sandra Bullock. Yes. But how did you, and it would be a Jewish wedding, of course, but how did you find out that Sandra Bullock was Jewish?

I think it was when she stepped on the glass at that wedding, yeah. That was when. I don't remember how. Sometimes you just know these things. When I used to watch the Ed Sullivan show with my parents, my dad would be watching, and he was uncannily able to spot who had a toupee and who didn't, and who was Jewish and who wasn't.

So when you sit there, oh, there's a good toupee. Tony Bennett, oh, look at that. Great, oh, that's a good toupee. Fr yeah tony bender oh look at that great oh that's a good oh that's a good to be fronty and tights oh bad to pay oh those are bad bad to pay and oh jewish you know that tony bill jewish you know so that you i developed so you develop a sixth sense about who's jewish and who wears a toupee and you know sandra bullock's jewish but doesn't wear a two well i don't know if she wears a toupee. And you know Sandra Bullock's Jewish but doesn't wear a toupee. Well, I don't know if she wears a toupee or not. I know that she's definitely Jewish.

So, because I always thought she admits to being German. Oh, she does? Oh, yeah, yeah. Or, I don't know if she, but like her mother was a big opera, German opera star. Oh, her mother was a German opera star?

Yeah, yeah. It sounds like the beginning of the Third Reich. Most German opera stars are Jewish, as it turns out. I don't know. Do you ever get letters from the podcast? Well, Werner. Let's have people call you. Werner K have people call you Werner Klemperer. Werner Klemperer, his father, Otto Klemperer.

Werner, of course, was Hogan. Yes. And his father, Otto Klemperer, was a famous German conductor. Yes. I know that, yes. Yes. And I think he used to date Sandra Bullock's mother. Mother.

So there. There you have it. Was Werner Jewish? Oh, yes. Both the Nazis on Hogan's Heroes were Jews. Schultz? Yes, Schultz. John Banner.

John Banner was Jewish? John Banner not only was a Jew, but he and his family were in the camps. Wow. But the camps weren't quite made into death camps at that point. They were fun camps. Yeah, they were fun. They were sewing activity. Fun camps, yeah.

Sewing circle, yeah. Fishing, it was all. Paul, we were talking About your parents Yes Wait we're talking We're making jokes About the concentration camp

Why are you interrupting Yeah I thought we might Add a little humor To the show Do something radical Paul's parents Were very hip parents

And they took him To Vegas To see Juliette Proust. In fact, it was the first time you ever took the stage with Jackie Gale. I was a part of Jackie Gale's act. I didn't actually walk on stage, and I want to be clear about that. But you were a foil. Because there may be somebody who was there.

That's true. Right into Gilbert's pocket. Paul Shaver was never on stage with Jackie Gayle. Aiming for authenticity. I don't want to be, yeah. We saw a number of performers on that trip.

Again, I think I was 12 or 13. First trip to Las Vegas ever, a 12-year-old kid with my parents. And we saw Nat Cole. Fantastic. I'll never forget it. And we saw... Sarah. Fantastic. I'll never forget it. And we saw Sarah Vaughn in the lounge. Unbelievable.

Fantastic. We saw Vaughn Meter and the First Family Review. Wow. Now, you remember. Oh, my God, yeah. Vaughn Meter had a series of comedy albums in which he did an impression of President Kennedy, Jack Kennedy,

and the albums were big hits. And so he had a review with the cast from the album in Las Vegas. And my dad said, I would not walk across the street to see Von Mitter. But you wanted to see Von Mitter. I forced him to, yeah. I forced him to. And his entire career ended when Kennedy was shot. Well, you remember the story about Lenny Bruce the night after. Can I tell it? Yeah, go ahead. It's your podcast. Yeah, you're a guest, so you get to tell the story.

The night after the assassination in Chicago, Lenny Bruce was appearing in a nightclub, and the tension was high, and people were, what is he going to say? He's so politically oriented. He's incisive. He cuts to the chase when it comes to political commentary. What is he going to say about the assassination of President Kennedy? Well, he comes out. You can hear a pin drop.

It's quiet. He sits down on a stool, grabs a mic, and he says, whew, Vaughn Meter, man. Wow. That said it all. Yeah, that said it all. And I think Vaughn Meter found out, because he was working out of town. He got in a cab.

The cab driver says, hey, did you hear about Kennedy? And he thought it was going to be, oh, another joke. So he goes, all right, let's hear it. And he goes, he was shot. And that's when Vaughn Meter's entire career dried up. Right. That was it. It was it for Vaughn Meter.

Anyway, we saw Vaughn Meter, but we also saw Juliette Krause opening act Jackie Gale. And we're sitting, you know, my dad says, says well let me just show you how to schmear a maitre d you know and we'll get a good so for those of you uh not of the jewish persuasion i'm talking about uh bribe you know this is a you can put a schmear of peanut butter on a piece of toast, or you can use the term to mean bribe the maitre d'. Well, he smeared the maitre d', you know, a good five bucks, and it didn't get us anyway. We were in the very last row of this showroom. But before Jackie Gale went on, the maitre d' came, we have a better seat for you people, and he moved us right up to ringside. Didn't understand why.

Turned out that Jackie Gale needed a kid to talk to in his act and he talked to a kid ringside and returned and it was and it was i and he said to kids today you know forget about they're so spoiled give me an idea hey you kid and he looks at me he says how many televisions you got in your in your house and i told the truth i said one He moved on. He talked to a kid on the other side of the stage. Yes, my first time in show business. That's how I knew I was actually in show business. I remember growing up, it seemed like Juliette Prowse was on TV every day.

Well, when she was going with Sinatra, she was on TV every day. That's all it took. She's dating Frank sinatra are you kidding booker and that's why we went to see her but it was great you know when we finally went to see her for legs up to her neck and uh every number more exciting than the last i loved it i was 12 at the time and i would love it to even today and and much like like Charlize Theron, she also was an African-American. Yes, that's right. Very much like Charlize Theron.

And very similar to the Bee Gees. She was, oh, no, they were Australian. Same thing. Yes, an African-American. A South African. Yes. My drummer on Letterman, Anton, is South African. And he's a South African. South African-American. South African. Yes. My drummer on Letterman, Anton, is South African. And it is South African.

South African. That's my impression of a South African actor. South African. Now, John Belushi. Yeah. Great. Legend. Okay.

And, you know, I did the Blues Brothers with John and Dan Aykroyd and put together that Blues Brothers band for them. We had our pick of the greatest R&B and blues musicians in the country because everybody wanted to play for them. They were so hot. It was, you didn't know if it was comedy, are they sending up the music, are they making fun of it, are they trying to do it? Neither John and Danny really claimed to be all that great shakes as started to see more recently all the tribute bands and clone acts that do a tribute to the Blues Brothers and do the act. And when I see that, I say to myself, you know, it wasn't so bad. Not so bad at all. And John could actually put across a number. He could deliver a number and do a show in a credible fashion. And what did you think of Blues Brothers 2?

Well, I didn't get to be in Blues Brothers 1, so Blues Brothers 2 was my favorite of the two Blues Brothers movies. Now, it only sold four tickets, and I bought all four for my family, but aside from that, I was

very proud of the music in that movie. That's when they added a kid to it. That's always the scariest. They added a kid to it, yeah. Well, the studio said, you've got to add a kid. And they said, whatever. Make the Blues Brothers a little more heartwarming.

Yeah, more heartwarming. Whatever you want, they said. Whatever you want. Tell us about seeing Belushi for the first time, Paul, because you saw him in Lemmings, do Joe Cocker, the first time you ever saw him? Yeah, he was phenomenal. I mean, his Joe Cocker impression was...

Remembered from SNL. It has never been equaled since then. That Lemmings was a hell of a show. It was... Chevy Chase was in it, too, and other people that we know. Chris Guest was in it. Chris Guest was in it as well. And it was a parody of the Woodstock Festival,

which gave them the framework within which to do incredibly uncannily accurate impressions of all the great rock performers at the time. Belushi was a force of nature, no question about it. He and I butted up against each other a little bit when I was working for him in the Blues Brothers. But I certainly miss the cat. What do you think about that?

Now, did you ever... You were looking at your notes... Yes, yes, I was. ...to see what to ask me next. Yeah, yeah. Don't you know the whole thing about... You're supposed to be listening to the guy. No.

And his answer. I've been on enough radio shows to know that in the middle of an answer, the guy is like checking the boards and looking over notes and talking to other people. Well, that's what you're nicely done. Yes. See?

Now you're impressed. Yes, yes. Did you ever see the Charlie's Angels episode with Sammy Davis Jr.? No, boy. I really, I missed out on something. Oh, you owe it to yourself. Now, I know the name of the game

episode with Sammy Davis Jr. You're not confusing these two things, are you? No, they're both great. Yeah, No. They're both great in their own... Sure. Yeah. They're both great in their own... Let me hear a little bit about the Charles H. Oh, okay. And then we'll talk. He does a tour de force. He plays two roles.

One, he's Sammy Davis Jr. Yeah. And the other is he's a guy named Herbert who owns a supermarket who looks just like Sammy Davis Jr. And is Herbert sort of a nerdy guy? Yes, yes. A bookish, bookworm kind of guy?

And then you know how shows in that era always had to end with a joke? Yeah, yeah. Wonk, wonk, wonk. Yeah. So that they could put that sound effect in. Yeah. And so this one had a double joke.

This I gotta hear yeah let me hear that at at the end uh sammy is there they capture the people who thought they were kidnapping sammy davis jr who were actually kidnapping herbert and then at the end he goes you know i'm the most talented guy in this room herbert as sammy as herbert says this and sammy with a non-threatening uh very affable uh black power fist uh goes right on herbert and that's one joke and you figured that would be enough for me it would have been yeah but they break for a commercial and come back and sammy and altavis oh walk in on the angels and say we're going to a big opening and altavis and they go an opening oh that's great what'll'll I wear? And they get all girly. And he goes, it's an opening of

Herbert's new supermarket. Oh. So it was Wah, wah, wah. Yeah, it was the greatest Charlie's Angels. I love it. Paul, you worked with Sammy. Didn't you? I got to work with him twice. Both times

were... He was Jewish. Yes, he was. I've heard. He sure was. And each time I worked with him was an education. First time was when Letterman Show was doing shows from Las Vegas. And he came in from working the night before in Boston with the Boston Pops.

He was always working, this guy. I got to talk to him once before the show, and I said, what song do you want to do with me in the band? And he said, you tell me, man. I said, what do you mean? Pick out something for me that cooks and swings, man. Let me know. I thought I was dreaming.

What am I going to do? So I thought and thought and I asked the different guys in the band. And actually, it was Will Lee, who both of you guys know, who plays bass with me on the show, who came up with two great ideas for Sammy. Oh, and the other thing I forgot to mention was we weren't going to get a chance to rehearse because he was flying all night from Boston the night before. He was going to get there just in time for the show, no rehearsal. What can we play for Sammy Davis? No rehearsal.

So Will said, well, maybe for Once in My Life, Stevie Wonder version, because that's a song he knows very well, or perhaps on Broadway, George Benson version, also kind of in his wheelhouse. Every time I called from then on, he was either sleeping or working, and I would call day after day, and AltaVees would pick up the phone.

He said, may I speak to Sammy Davis Jr.? She said, this is AltaVees Davis. Well, I was so thrilled. It was Alto. And I knew to call her Alto from watching the Johnny Connors. Alto, I said. She didn't miss a beat. Yes, it's

me. I said, where's Schmool, using his Yiddish name, because that's what the rap guy called him. That was Sammy's Yiddish name? Schmool? Schmool. Sammy and Jewish. Oh. Fantastic. Sammy and Jewish. What's Sandra Bullock's Yiddish name? Yiddish name. Shmuel? Shmuel. That's Sammy in Jewish. Oh. Sammy in Jewish. What's Sandra Bullock's Yiddish? Well, that I don't know.

Okay. Sorry. I am going to reschedule this when we can be face to face. I said, Alto, where's Shmuel? He said, Shmuel is sleeping. Always, you know. Always sleeping. Well, I'll call back tomorrow.

And I didn't,muel is sleeping. Always sleeping. Well, I'll call back tomorrow. And I never got him. And it's the morning of the show, and I'm in the showroom in Las Vegas. And I don't know what to rehearse because he hasn't picked a song. So I guess, well, I guess I'll rehearse them both, I guess. And then the phone rang, the backstage phone. Mr. Schaefer called for me with Mr. Davis. He's calling from the plane. And this is before there were phones on the plane.

I don't know how he did it. He must have had one of those things, styrofoam cups in the shop. He said, for once in my life, it'll be great, you know, and he told me the keys and stuff, now I was fine, and I rehearsed, and I decided to tape the arrangement in case he made it in time to at least hear it so he would know what was going on. Tape the arrangement. He comes walking in. By some miracle,

his plane lands on time and he's there in time for one run-through of the song. I said, here, listen to the arrangement. I taped it. He said, I don't want to hear it, madam.

I said, what do you mean? I don't want to hear the arrangement. I said, just listen to it. I said, you may not like it. He said, I like it. I like it. I said, it might not be in the right key. All right, play it for it. I said, you may not like it. He said, I like it. I like it. I said, it might not be in the right key.

All right, play it for me. So I press play, and I start to play it back. And he's hearing it on a little cassette. His head starts to go. He's starting to enjoy it. And he's grooving on it. And he looks at me, and he says, do you know how much fun this would have been if I hadn't have heard this tape? And he was serious. He wanted to go. He's done so many shows, you know how much fun this would have been if I hadn't have heard this tape? And he was serious.

He wanted to go. He's done so many shows, you know. He wanted to just do... He wanted spontaneous. Spontaneous. First time hearing it. Let me just go and see what happens. And I wrecked it.

Because I... Wow. Yeah, I wrecked it. But anyway, and there's this other... You can see this on YouTube now, too, because he comes over on the show and he says, Paul, I was hoping I might do a thing with you and the cats. And I looked down and I said, it would be my honor, man. I said that.

He says, oh, you're doing that Billy Crystal stuff on there. So, you know, no good deed. Anyway, thrilled, though. It was a thrill. The next time he came on, he knew better. He said, I'm just going to, I know you're going to need me to rehearse, but I'm going to save some of my best lines for the air. So the first time you hear him is on the air.

And he was singing, I've been around the world. And he changed, and Billy Crystal has asked me to start. But he saved that for air. He had me figure it out. Any more questions? I always thought Sammy and Jerry Lewis were very similar. Same person?

Yeah. How so? How are they similar? They're influenced by each other, for sure. Yes. Their singing styles, the way they talk the way they get serious i'd like to hear a little bit about that when they get serious what's it like when jerry lewis gets serious well um as a filmmaker i think i speak the international language, which is mine. And I was always, I think the secret to my comedy is I was

nine. I was always nine. I never grew up past nine. I'm nine. I'm nine. I'm nine. Oh, he used to refer to Jerry in third person. I don't think I'd

allow Jerry to go up and do that. Jerry would never do it, yeah. And what about Sammy Davis? What does it sound like when he gets serious? I'm just a filmmaker. I love when Marty Short does the serious Jerry with the lozenge. Oh, the lozenge.

Yeah, well, Gilbert's got the lozenge, too. And I remember Jerry also, when he talks about Dean, he was the handsome guy. And I was the monkey. The monkey, yeah, monkey. Right. And he says, you know, well, we had the kind of arrangement whereby we both shared the work. I wrote the act act and Dean drank. But that was the kind of, you know, the way we had.

One of my favorite things when Jerry acts like he's giving credit to someone else but likes to put it on himself, he was saying, it was so unfair, the pain that Dean was going through. Yeah, he went through pain. And, I mean, look, here's the reviews. They would only talk about me and not Dean. Jerry is a brilliant performer and great legendary comedian. And not a word about Dean.

It was the pain that he had. And he went review after review saying how great he was. Not a word about Dean. It was the pain that he had. And he went review after review, saying how great he was. Not a word about Dean. Well, that's the, you know, that's what a person goes through. That's all I can say. But, you know, we mean this, of course,

with all the love. We mean it with the love. Yes. Well, okay. I think, see, this is something like a lot of people don't understand but i know you understand it and like in i think we both have that fascination of show business that it's a love hate relationship you can only first of all you can only parody somebody that you really love that's the only way you can really get to the higher levels of what they're doing and really do a one-for-one parody when you really love. That's the only way you can really get to the higher levels of what they're doing and really do a one-for-one parody

when you really appreciate and love the person's talent. How can you argue with Sammy Davis's talent? You can't. He was the greatest entertainer that ever lived, maybe ever will live. Or some say Louis Prima. But I say it's got to be Sammy Davis. So you got that for openers.

You're not going to criticize the guy's talent. You can't argue with it because it's got to be sammy davis so you got that for openers you're not going to criticize the guy's talent you can't argue with because it's there but that doesn't mean you can't kid him good-naturedly and like to talk about when he says you know man if i may say you gilbert in all seriousness or as bobby bittman would say in all seriousness as a comic the way you what you do man for the kids and you don't hear enough about the good things you do. You got to have that ability to kid a guy and appreciate him at the same time. And people just say to me, oh, you hate Sammy Davis.

Well, no, I love Sammy. I love Sammy Davis. That's the thing. Love him, kid him. It's all part of the same thing. Right? Yeah. Just like when you-

Well, maybe not you. You hate him. You hate him. It's a little different there. You hate him. kid them it's all part of the same thing well yeah just like well maybe not you you hate it a little different there yeah you hate him when i watch jerry lewis there's like when he gets really egotistical sometimes really phony and everything but i love every second of it well there's that too and we love every second but you also think you can't deny he's the funniest. Oh, yes, yes. The bellhop, funny, right? Yeah, oh, Nutty Professor. The errand boy, right? Yeah, funny.

I grew up on Ola Jerry Lewis. So there you go. She's great. There you go. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Now, here's a segue. After this. Now, here's a segue.

They once said to Sammy Davis Jr. that he's the greatest performer in the world. Yeah. And Sammy said that he didn't agree with that. He thinks Mickey Rooney was the greatest performer in the world. Sammy Davis feels Mickey Rooney was the greatest performer. That's interesting. Mickey Rooney, who you also worked with. Worked with him, yes.

And he, what do you think? Do you think that Mickey Rooney, greatest performer in the world? I don't know. Certainly a brilliant movie actor. Yes, yes, great. Had a lot of wives. Yes. Beautiful wives. Yes.

Really hot. Ava Gardner, married Ava Gardner twice. Isn't that true? Yes she did Yeah Some guys couldn't even marry her once Sinatra couldn't get her Couldn't get her once

That's right Mickey Rooney twice Tell us about working with Mickey Well George Fenneman I aspire to be George Fenneman In the 70s I did a sitcom

For CBS Called A Year at the Top, where I and a kid named Greg Evigan had sold our souls to the devil in return for rock stardom. And Mickey Rooney was on the first episode, the first hour-long debut episode. I was telling Gilbert about it before you got here. Really, he was supposed to be on the series, but we made four episodes with him.

And it wasn't his fault, but the episodes were so bad that they had to shelve all four and start all over again. By this time, he had to move on. He was bored. He said, I'll do the first one. When I first started working with him, I was thrilled to be working for him, and he was so funny. I was writing down the jokes that he would tell during the read-through on the back of my script. Like he would say, well, a guy says, when I get older, I'm going to be buried in a copper coffin. He said, why? And he'd point to his wrist and say, help my arthritis.

As if like a copper thing. And then the next day he would say, the guy says, copper coffin. And the day after that, copper coffin, help my arthritis. Same jokes coming back time after time after time. Not his fault. He thought he didn't know anybody was listening to it, let alone writing it down like I was. Funny guy, though. Funny guy.

And he has that type of thing that so many stars have where they have to be the center of attention. That's what makes them great. And even if somebody else is performing, well, they have to be enjoying it more than anybody else in the room. That's what makes them great. That's why he's great. One of the reasons why he's great. You did that show for Norman Lear and Don Kirshner.

Yeah, it was Norman Lear's first flop, I think, as a matter of fact. Now, your co-star, Greg Avigan, who would later be in My Two Dads with Paul Reiser. How about that? Yeah. And BJ and the Bear. First, he replaced me with a monkey and did BJ and the Bear.

And then he was in, yeah, My Two Dads with Paul Reiser. Yeah. Yeah. Is that where your relationship with Don Kirshner began and the impression of Don Kirshner started? Is that where your relationship with Don Kirshner began and the impression of Don Kirshner started? When I was doing this show, and Kirshner was the co-producer with Norman Lear, and I got on with Kirshner right away because I knew everything about him.

I had read about him in Time magazine. I knew about how he was the man with the golden ear. I knew about he was the music supervisor for the Monkees. And so he got a kick out of me because i got a kick out of him and one day he called me and he said i've decided to go on camera doing on my own show you know he had john kirsch's rock concert where a voiceover and i was saying now edgar winter is white trash well he said i'm gonna go on tv on camera and do the intros myself and he would say you know they say sullros myself. And he would say, you know, they used to say Sullivan was stiff, but he had the gig, you know?

Right, right. They'd say, I'm stiff, Sullivan was stiff, but he had the gig. So he was going to, stiff as he was, he was going to go on TV. He wasn't anything but stiff in regular life. He would be a fast-talking New York publisher who would say, forget about it with the Carole Kings and the Sadakas, and we never looked at a contract. Herbie made them out, he didn't look at them,

but, you know, it was over with the Connie Francis's and things with the Monkees and the Mickey Dolans and the Stummies that we gave him. A mile a minute talking, and then when he went on camera, he slowed right down and his eyes glazed over and he said, I'm Don Kushner and welcome to Rock Concert.

And I never, I mean, the impression that it left with me was so strong that when the show flopped and I got my old job on Saturday Night Live back, I started doing the impression of Kirshner on the air. And the rest is. I think it's the first time I remember being aware of you. I mean, watching SNL, but seeing that Don Kirshner impression. Well, thank you. I was really, you know, I channeled him because I really felt, you know, I had a simpatico with him.

You say you parody what you love. You parody what you love. That is the point, I think, that I'm trying to make. I love how he... Gilbert hates the people that he parodies. I love them. I love them. That's where he and I differ.

Here's a name out of nowhere. Okay. But I don't know. I just thought, because she's really of like more modern but still old hollywood raquel welch yeah uh had a little experience with her uh she hosted uh one of the saturday night live shows i think in wouldn't exactly know what to do with yet, he would say, get a rehearsal room and go in there with Paul and figure out what you're going to sing. So here I was, fresh out of Canada, 25 years old.

I'm in a little rehearsal room with Raquel Welsh and she's doing her act for me, including what she called the hot tamale numbers. And I would say, well, I don't know if that hot tamale number is better than that hot tamale number.

One of the greatest days. Greatest days. And of course, Chevy Chase wrote the sketch for her. I don't know whether it actually played. The sketch was called Take Off Your Shirt.

Hi, I'm Chevy Chase, and welcome to Take Off Your Shirt. Today's guest, Raquel Welsh. And you can guess where the thing goes from that. You know, see, now, Chevy Chase is one of those people. Yeah. And he's in that category, I guess I say with both with with jerry lewis where you could say the same thing and that's like he was always nice to me he was always nice yeah chevy chase was always nice to me the few times i've met jerry lewis always nice to you but but

it's like you you hear stuff some of the guys who did the roast of Chevy, I suppose, may have heard a few things. I don't think any of them knew him. But they had heard a few things. And I think it's just Chevy, you know. We in comedy, Gilbert, if I may say. You know, we're trying to be edgy. Yeah. I don't know if this goes with Chevy or not.

But we're always trying to get close to the edge, and sometimes we fall over the edge. But you can't be edgy unless you're willing to get as close to the edge as you can. Chevy may have fallen over a little bit with the insult humor. Perhaps. I'm just saying perhaps. He was always nice to me. Yeah.

He was always nice to me. I worked with him. He was always nice to me the few times that I've met him, too. Yeah. Yeah. So they were both always nice to both of us. Always nice to me. I worked with him. He's always been nice to me the few times that I've met him, too. Yeah. So they were both always nice to both of us. Always nice to both of us. Chevy Chase and Jerry Lewis were nice to both. Yes, we've got that.

Now, we both have a great admiration and respect for Cindy Crawford's infomercial. Well, now you're really getting into my wheelhouse. Yeah. Cindy Crawford's infomercial. Now, this has to do with the product Meaningful Beauty. Yeah, by Dr. Chavard, the French doctor. You're talking about Dr. Jean-Louis Chavard. Yes.

Yeah, Chavard. S-E-B-A-U-G-H, I believe. He's known as the youth guru. Yes. He's known as, I don't know what else. And I remember he tells the story with Cindy listening and being very touched by it. He goes, well, she walks into my office and she's the most beautiful girl in the world. Yes.

And what does Cindy do? Just a very modest, doesn't say anything, hands together in prayer. Yes, yes. Bends over sort of like a Buddhist salutation. Oh, doctor. Yes. Oh, you shouldn't have. And Valerie Bertinelli is the interviewer.

She was the interviewer on the classic, the first episode of this. I think they've got a couple of them going now. I don't like the second. No, well, there's no Valerie Bertinelli. Without her, what do you have? You know, you've got a chick with a mole. You need really the full... The Lou Beron, though, you really should the full, the full, the Luberon, though.

You really should visit it sometime, Gilbert. That's where the melon. Dr. Savag has found a new melon, a miracle melon, that grows in a secluded area of France called the Luberon. You should visit it sometime. And they have a great scene where he's actually out in the field with a tiny little vial that's like half an inch big. And he holds it into the sunlight. He's holding it up to the sunlight.

And then, of course, you know, he... Let's talk to the doctor. Well, he didn't have time to come in for the taping. He's by a satellite. Really, he's in the next room, of course. So obvious. Like they painted the Eiffel Tower behind him. He's in the

next room. Well, I'm glad that somebody else is as weird and perverted as I have. They've watched it as many times as I have and has memorized it as I have. And Valerie Perrine is very good. Valerie Bertinelli. Valerie Perrine.

Oh, Valerie Perrine will be our next subject. Love Valerie Perrine, yeah. Valerie Bertinelli has a great self-effacing. Yeah, how does that go again? Oh, I... Well, when she says I use it morning and night, I'm greedy. Is that what you meant? Well, I love when she looks at the two pictures of Cindy Krupp.

Oh, yeah. And goes, this was 20 years later. Cindy? She is Louise or something like that, right? Cindy. And we wanted to make new pictures. You know, these are three years old. We wanted to do new pictures you know these are three years old we wanted to do new pictures

so we did these new pictures Cindy now Valerie Perrine great only met her once she didn't really know who I was but

one of my favorite actresses. Any personal experience with her? I never met her, but what I loved about Valerie Perrine is she had no qualms about getting naked in every movie she was in. Well, an actress has to.

Except for Superman. Yeah. I would have no clowns with that either. But I'm only here because I said you do it naked. She was one of the few who was naked on

TV. What was she naked in on TV? Steam Bath with Bill Bixby. That's right. I don't know how I missed Steam Bath. It was a play written by Drew's father. You were sort of like the guy, Mr. Skin.

You could say that. Yeah, who fast forwards to the good parts. Is that what you're like? And they always do those bad puns in the Mr. Skin one. Yeah.

Like, they had one. They said, you know, you'll be mad about Helen Hunt's nude scene. Yeah. And when you see Helen Hunt's naked body, it will definitely give you a riser. Like Paul Reiser. I didn't know that. Now, Frank Sinatra. Yeah.

Ever had dealings with Frank? No, I never got to meet Frank. But I understand that in his compound, Palm Springs, he named each one of the different cabins after one of his hit records. Wow. Tom Dreesen, he usually stays in the tender trap. So that's all I know about him. And you know that Frank Sinatra Jr., you remember when he was kidnapped?

Sure. Yes. Yeah, wasn't that terrible? Fascinating. Yeah. And the kidnappers eventually had to let him go. You know why? Why?

They heard him humming in the trunk. Seriously. Now, here's what I don't understand. Here's what I don't understand. If you're Frank Sinatra and you know every gangster in the world. Allegedly. Yeah. Allegedly. Yeah. Allegedly.

Now, if your son's kidnapped, wouldn't you just make one call and have them both killed? You should be able to. I don't know. I can't explain it. What do you think happened there? I have no idea. Obviously, they heard him humming. Obviously.

Yeah. And you worked with Frank Jr.? Yes, definitely. Worked with Frank Jr. Because in the 80s, there was a band called Was Not Was. Oh, yes. Don Was. Yes, Don Was.

Everybody walks the dinosaur. Walk the dinosaur was their thing. And Don Was has gone on to do great things as a record exec and producer and everything. But he had a band, Was Not Was, with a guy who they pretended to be brothers, but they really weren't, but maybe they were. And their tradition was they would do

one Vegas-y, lounge-y kind of cut per album. One album, they used Mel Torme to sing a song about a kid who, you know, like a teenage suicide, and the record was called Zaz Turned Blue. Zaz being the name of the guy. Zaz turned blue. He didn't know what to do. And then the following album, Frank Jr. singing one

called Wedding Vows in Vegas, and it was brilliant, and we had them on Was Not Was with Frank Jr., special guest Frank Jr. singing Vegas, Wedding Vows in Vegas. So, Morty, who we all remember so

well as being the producer of Letterman back in those days said, let me take you and introduce you to Frank Jr. And he did. Took me to his dressing room. Frank opened the door. Morty says, Frank, this is Paul Schaefer. What? I do not understand

who that is. Like his dad, he spoke like a character in Guys and Dolls. I do not know who they are. Like his dad, he spoke like a character in Guys and Dolls. I do not know who, you know. I said, Mr. Sinatra, I absolutely love the record. He said, what record? I do not understand. Oh, Don Wise's record. Oh, that's another story.

You know, he had to make sure that I understood. It wasn't his record. It's a record that he did for Don Wise. I understood it wasn't his record. It's a record that he did for Don Wise. And I said, I loved your record, which I remembered from the 60s. He had a record out in the rock and roll era, his attempt to get a rock and roll hit. And it was called Shadows on a Foggy Day.

I said, Frank, I love Shadows on a Foggy Day. He says, that record got me dropped from Mercury Records. I said, what? How? How did that happen? He said, it was about LSD. And they wanted me to do a follow-up the same. And I said, I will not sing another pro-drug song.

And they dropped me from the label. So there you go. Who would have thought Shadows on a Foggy Day was another pro-drug song, and they dropped me from the label. So there you go, you know. Who would have thought Shadows on a Foggy Day was a pro-drug song? Shadows on a foggy day. That's his idea of a rock and roll single. Not too hard to find. Okay. Now, we're also big fans of the same film starring or co-starring sammy jr and now frank sinatra jr yeah with sid melton well this is something that i believe you turned me on to

i don't know yes how a thing like this gets made but just talk to me a little bit about it. Tell the people, the fine folks at home. There's Sid Melton, one of these character comic actors. Yeah, from the 50s, 40s, 50s. He was in Make Room for Daddy. That's how we know him. But he'd pop up in old movies. Oh, he was in Lady Sings the Blues. That's right. He was in Lady Sings the Blues.

And real funny looking guy. Yeah. And when he was really old, he made this movie, and called me in the morning, where Frank Sinatra Jr. is his agent. Plays his agent, yeah. And it is just, it never was released, amazingly. First of all, how old was Sid Melton at this point?

Oh, my God. He was like a day away from death. Like in the 90s. Yeah, yeah. And then the movie was about how he was having an affair or something. Yes, with some hot young girl. Hot young chick, and he's 90. Hot young 30-year-old girl.

And it's, the whole thing comes across as very dreamlike because there's no rhyme or reason. I thought I dreamed it. Yeah, but it was true. But we both became hypnotized. Well, if you see it, you know, you can't help but be hypnotized by it.

But it's because we love Sid Melton and Frank Jr. Not you. You hate that. I once visited Sid Melton's apartment with Gino. Really? With Gino Salamone.

Gino Salamone. It's a callback. It was like some little ratty apartment by the airport. Yeah. It was quite sad. You once told me that he was like six inches from the road. Yes. No front lawn area at all.

Oh, God. Just front door, highway. Yeah. When you open the door from the street, there's no like... There was no stoop. No foyer or anything. No stoop. No stoop. It was right flat on the ground.

If it rained, it would rain in the apartment. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. You were there, right? You were at St. Martin's? Do you remember what Dean Martin said when Jerry Lewis, Remember what Dean Martin said when Jerry Lewis, toward the end of their team, when Jerry Lewis said it was about the love we have. No, are you talking about the reunion on the telethon?

No, no, no. This is a story that when Martin and Lewis were really arguing and they hated each each other. Yeah. Jerry wanted to reach out to Dean. He said, you know, I think what people really loved, our success was our love. And Dean Martin said to Jerry Lewis, well, you talk, love all you want, Patty. When I look at you, all I see is a fucking dollar sign. Oh, boy. Well, first of all, you do a great dean. Thank you.

You can see where that might have caused a rift. Perhaps, you know. Anyway, it was a love story, though. Oh, yes, yes. The book, The Love Story. Yeah, it was a love story. George F Oh, yes, yes, the book, the love story. Yeah, it was a love story. George Fenneman, what were you going to say? I was just going to talk about how much I loved reading your book.

Well, that's very sweet of you. Which is called We'll Be Here for the Rest of Our Lives, a Swingin' Showbiz Saga. Still downloadable, I think. Listen, I got the audio version, too. Before we let you go, Paul, we have to ask you about the significance of James Brown's cape in your

life. Well, of course, it has a number of significant features. First time I saw it and the cape act was on the Tammy show in the 60s. I had to get up Saturday morning at 8 a.m.

That's the only time they played this thing. It was in a kinescope that they played in theaters. I saw him do that. Cape was the first time that the white audience ever saw James Brown. I never got over it. And then somehow I ended up in a position where I got to do the Cape Act every Friday night on Letterman. Explain to the listeners what the Cape Act was.

Well, it was a thing. He said in his book that he got the idea from gorgeous George the wrestler, who wore a bunch of capes when he would walk into the wrestling ring. So James would wear the cape, and as he was getting ready to go off stage, one of his henchmen would come on with the cape put it over his shoulders he would walk off stage like a broken man he would then get re-innervated and throw the cape off and come back on for one more curtain call and now the henchman would come on with a different color cape put that on, he would do the same thing. Broken man walking off. He didn't want the audience to see the pride of a man broken from a woman.

And the henchman was even embarrassed for him. But he would throw that cape off. And that was the act that I would do on Letterman each Friday night. In the middle of two commercials, there would be about 30 seconds there, I'd be doing the cape, throwing it off, falling down on my knees. More recently, I went to an auction, the James Brown Estate Auction at Christie's and bought one of the actual capes where I have it now on display in my house behind glass. And right next to it, Murray the Kay's hat. Wow.

So that's the kind of the, you know. I remember seeing you do the bit on Letterman, and guest stars would come out and wrap the cape around you. Tina Fey and Whoopi and Jack Black. Fantastic. Different guest stars coming out and putting the cape on me, including James Brown, the godfather himself, came out and put the cape on me.

So, you know, I want to talk about a guy who's had his share of thrills in show business. That's it. I definitely have. Thanks for bringing it up. Here's a very quick question that I'm sure you'll have a quick answer to. Now, what are your plans now that Letterman? Oh, you and everybody else

in the whole world have been asking me. What are you going to do now? Well, I'm not retiring. You know, my boss is retiring. I don't plan to retire. I'm going to do now? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not retiring. You know, my boss is retiring. I don't plan to retire. I'm going to keep playing the piano. That's all I know. I'm going to lie down initially, and when I get up, I'll see what happens.

Try to keep playing the piano. That's all. That's what I'm going to do. Thanks for asking. And what's Sly Stallone doing? Not Sly Stallone. Sly Stone. Yeah.

What's he doing? I don't know what he's doing. I heard he was homeless and living in his car. Oh, I read that too. He was living in a trailer. You never know with that. Living in his car, living in a trailer.

Yes. Living in a studio, living in the Plaza Hotel. You never know with that guy. Well, this has been this has been Gilbert Gottfried.

You know how Don how Don Kirshner would answer that? He had a way, Don Kirshner had a way of refuting a thing like that. You say to me, he, he, Sly's living in his car. Yeah, Sly's living in his car. He's living in his car, he's not living in his car. That's how he would Living in his car He's not living in

That's how he would do it Is that what you're going to sign off? Peter Lawford Peter Lawford Yeah Salt and Pepper Oh yes Sure with Sammy

With Sammy Yes That Jerry only directed. Yeah, and then there was a follow-up to it. Oh, one more time. Salt and Pepper one more time. Yes. Yeah.

And this is how the theme went like this. Salt and Pepper one more time. No. Salt and Pepper one more time. Salt and pepper one more time Now, didn't Sammy also sing the theme song of The Errand Boy? How did that go? Starring Jerry Lewis How did that go?

Oh, I forget God, this is going to kill me This will come back to me in the middle of the night That's a Drew Friedman question Yeah, oh God He'll know What did you say about Drew Friedman and his dad wrote Steve Beth? Oh, no, no, no, no.

It was the disorderly order. Oh, he sang. Yeah. How would that have gone? It was something like, and all I remember is the name disorderly orderly. Yeah. And I think it was Sammy, and I think he was going, then disorderly, orderly. That I got gotta hear.

We gotta get a hold of that. Can we find that? Can we get a hold of that? Will Chow, make it my business. Edit it into the podcast. Have it playing throughout. I remember Sammy on I Dream of Jeannie. That was also a great episode. Phil Spector, too, Sammy on I Dream of Jeannie. That was also a great episode. Phil Spector, too, was on I Dream of Jeannie.

That's right. Yeah. Well, are you going to sign on? Oh, I guess so. Okay. Could you take us out as Don Kirshner, Paul? Oh, yes. Okay.

Dear Anthony, who's a gentleman, called me on a kid named Giver Godfrey. He's one of the funniest gentlemen ever. Something like that. Are you going to sign on? Oh, yes. I can't top that. Are you going to sign on? Yes. I can't top that. Okay. So Gilbert Coffey's Amazing Colossal Podcast,

and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we've been interviewing the legendary. Oh, you should. Yes. You don't have to. It's true. As a performer, he's one of a kind. And as a human being, he's one

of the kindest. Oh, you don't have to say that. Eugene Levy once said, as Bobby Vittman, as a performer, he's marvelous. As a human being, he's absolutely marvelous. As a human being, he's absolutely marvelous. He's someone who taught me.

It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. Good night, everybody. Good night, everyone. It's been a pleasure being on your podcast, both of you guys. Thank you. Thanks, Paul. Thanks for doing it, buddy.