Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 58. Tracey Jackson & Paul Williams

Episode Date: July 6, 2015

Screenwriter Tracey Jackson and legendary songwriter and actor Paul Williams join Gilbert and Frank at New York's famed Friars Club to talk about the launch of their new podcast and to cover a wide array of topics, including the "musicality" of comedy, the addiction of fame, and the movies that changed Paul and Tracey's lives. Also, Paul auditions for The Monkees, Tracey hangs with Hunter S. Thompson and Gilbert "favors" Paul by performing some of his greatest hits. PLUS: John Byner! The Jewish Elvis! Robert Mitchum's bed! Tracey bootlegs a Paul Williams concert! And the return of Pat McCormick! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast, on Twitter at RealGilbertACP, and on Instagram, Gilbert Podfried, P-O-D-F-R-I-E-D. You see, it's kind of a pun on the last name. Ah, never mind. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre, and we're here at the Friars Club in New York City. Our guests today are a screenwriter, television writer, and playwright who's written 12 TV pilots, as well as the screenplays for the movies The Guru and Confessions of a Shopaholic. And our other guest, a songwriter, singer, actor, and member of the Songwriters Hall of Fame who's written some of the most popular and enduring songs of our lifetimes, including We've Only Just Begun, Rainy Days and Mondays,

and The Rainbow Connection, among many others. He's also an actor. He's appeared in everything from Smokey and the Bandit to Phantom of the Paradise to Batman the Animated Series. So please welcome Tracy Jackson and Paul Williams. Thank you.

Thank you. Yay! Thank you. So much fun to be here. I want to hear you sing those songs. Okay. Sharing horizons. Gilbert sings

a Paul Williams songbook. I think that would be a hit album. You know, he sings on almost every episode. Yes. And as a matter of fact, he sang a little bit

of a Paul Williams song on one episode. And he sang? Gilbert, you want to tell Paul? Nice to be around. Oh my God, you know that one? Yes. Paul's going to want money because of ASCAP.

You better probably send it over. Keep that stuff really quiet. Right, right, right. Right, yeah. Okay, then I'll keep my mouth shut. Yeah, no, because he's going to pick his hand up. Sing away, Chuck. Go ahead.

Give him a little bit of it. Okay. I always sing Paul Williams songs as Paul Williams. So, yes. Hello. With affection from a sentimental fool to a little girl who's broken every rule. One that brings me up

when all the others seem to let me down One who's nice to be around Should I say that it's a blue world without you Whisper words I remember from old love songs. But all wrong, cause I never called it love before. These feelings knew it came with you. And I know that the nicest things are never going to last. That we're both a bit

embarrassed by our past. But I think there's something special in the feelings that we found. And you're nice to be

around. to be around. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I think you guys have to go on the road. Wonderful.

I think you guys have to go on the road. What's amazing is you sound exactly like John Biner doing me. John Biner does you? That's great.

Maybe that's how you sound, Paulie It's the way I used to sound Because I couldn't breathe My nose was full of cocaine I couldn't Should I say that it's a blue? Then I got sober and all of a sudden I was like Should I say that it's a

Wow, where'd this voice come from? Because you didn't have your nose in a mirror all those years You wouldn't have sounded like that You see, I think I like your singing better on cocaine Because you didn't have your nose in a mirror all those years, you wouldn't have found it like that. You see, I think I like your singing better on cocaine. But you wouldn't have liked the rest of me any better. You wouldn't have liked the rest of me. She knew me then.

And I feel so bad that I didn't include the first part of the song. It was, hello, what a silly way to start a love affair. Such a simple way to start a love affair. What a simple way to start a love affair. Should I jump right in and say how much I care? Or should I jump right in and say how much I care? And what sounds like a voice, I should be saying things like, Gilbert, are you my daddy? Gilbert, are you my daddy? Gilbert, are you my daddy? Would you take me for a madman?

Or a simple heartache? Tracy, jump in here and save me. Oh, Tracy. I can't sing. Did you write that and a couple of others with John Williams? I wrote that with John Williams. That was for a movie called Cinderella Liberty.

James Caan. Eli Wallach. I mean, if you're going to write songs for a movie, what an amazing way to begin is to have somebody like John Williams pull you into the process. So it was John Williams and the director, Mark Rydell, gave you

the job. It was fabulous. For anyone out there who wouldn't know John Williams, which is shocking. Yeah, turn off the show immediately. He wrote... He wrote Jaws. Star Wars. Star Wars. Traitors of the Lost Ark.

Schindler's List. Every Spielberg film, including a million others. Brilliant. I wonder if he's divorced and has to give away a lot of his royalties. And the two of you together. It's going around, I hear. It's going around, I hear. Yes.

But yeah, it was a great way to start my career. It was the first stuff I ever wrote for a feature film. We wrote five songs for that. But yeah, brilliant that. Brilliant man. Brilliant man. Okay, if we could start with... Now, your father was... How tall

was your father? Six foot two. Do we want to talk about my journey like that, or do we want to talk about gratitude and trust? We have to talk about how tall your father was. We'll get to both of them. I had two brothers. They're both six foot trust. We have to talk about how tall your father was. We'll get to both of them. I had two brothers. They're both six-footers. I have a mild

resentment. The interesting thing is they gave me shots to make me grow when I was nine because I was falling behind. If they hadn't done that, I probably would have wound up at the same height as my brothers and all, but they gave me shots. A doctor said, let's try something. Let's give him male hormone, which did not make me any taller,

but it gave me a huge hard-on. And what was interesting, you know, so it's the headwaters of why I write codependent love songs is because at nine years old, I was humping my Aunt Laverne's leg. I mean, it was just, you know, they went, okay, stop the hormone shots. Immediately stop the hormone shots, you know. So, you know, yeah so you know yeah i was more interested in you know in my my toy chest no but aunt laverne's chest yeah you know so so but anyway

i kind of screwed things up so it's my body clock got all messed up i didn't hit puberty until i was out of high school and i've you know i took a spurt i was four six when i graduated i and then i i spurted up to 5'2. And it slowed everything down. But now, when I'm about to turn 75, I'm thrilled to have things. I mean, now I have three kids that are in their 30s, and their dad is feeling about the same age as them, you know, and about as mature. You look great for 75, Paul, if I could blow a little smoke up your skirt. Tell us how you met Tracy. There's a story. Blowing smoke up my skirt?

Yeah, sure. Can we turn the cameras on for that? I'm wearing pants, so we'll try and do that. And the origin, the story of how you met involves an iconic actor. It does. Paul's hero.

Well, I was a Paul Williams fan when I was a kid. I'm beginning to think that all kids who had come from fucked up families watched Mike Douglas every day. I think that he was like the babysitter for all disenfranchised children. But I was crazy about Paul. I loved his music. And he moved to Santa Barbara where I grew up. And I was friendly with Robert Mitchum. And there were three celebrities in Santa I was friendly with Robert Mitchum. And there were like three celebrities in Santa Barbara.

There was Robert Mitchum. There was Steve Martin who lived on the hill and never came down. And there was Jonathan Winters. And when Jonathan Winters moved to Santa Barbara, he was really bored. So he would go up every day to the upper village and he would do his act. Just for strangers in the street? No, just like for anyone. Like he'd stand in front of the market or the storefront. And he would do his act. Just for strangers in the street? No, just like for anyone. He'd stand in front of the market

and he would do his act. And when he first got there, everybody was really happy because Santa Barbara was a boring city, right? So all of a sudden, there's Jonathan Winters and you go to the market

and he's doing his whole thing and you're kind of cool and you get this big crowd. Well, this went on for years and it got to the point where you go, shit, I've got 40 minutes and you'd park around the back because there'd be jonathan you know season three of the

so so when paul came to town i was very excited i didn't get to meet him right away and then mitchum had a new year's day party and dorothy mitchum known as the sheriff to try and keep bob out of trouble which was not successful said but paul williams was going to be there so i got all dressed up. And sure enough, there he was in like a little Andy Gibb jacket. Sort of. And I went up to him and I said, Mr. Williams, I love you so much. I've loved your music my whole life.

You're just like everything. I was just a total sycophant. I'm 22 years old. I mean, come on. And he looks at me and goes, well, as long as it got you laid. And he turns on his heels and he walks away. Classic first impressions. So then I decided I like Neil Diamond better.

Understandable. And then we got one, we got a photo op on Bob's bed, which is Paula's favorite thing about our relationship, is we got a photo op on Bob's bed. I love saying that we met in Robert Mitchum's bed. He loves that. Well, you love people to think you spent a lot of time in Robert Mitchum's bedroom. Exactly. But I wasn't, you know, we didn't have our noses in each other's laps. We had our noses on little mirrors.

You and Bob or you and me? Me and Bob. Well, neither one of us. Well, Mitchum spoke a lot of dough. And Mitchum was like a dough boy. He called me a dough boy. His nickname was the goose because he walked like a goose. know he had this shoulder thing and he called me the dough boy for the pillsbury dough boy and he'd be like dough boy tried this shit it's no good but you

might like it and then he'd give you something scraped off to king tut that was just gonna it was gonna put you know put you back in grade school mentality and leave you there for a week you know uh and that's probably where i was when Tracy walked in there because I was not that nasty a guy. But that, I mean, what came out of my mouth was just, that day I was just arrogant, little sexist, little prick, you know. So she wandered out, she said, spun on her heels,

Neil Diamond fan, left the room and all. But then we met in 2000, like 2001 I think, when I was at Feinstein's and she and her husband Glenn came to see my show and I was different. I was at Feinstein's, and she and her husband Glenn came to see my show, and I was different. I was, at that time, 11 years sober, and we hit it off, and we became best friends.

You thought, I got a second shot at this. I got a second shot. I had a deal at Sony, and I wanted to do a TV... I'd always liked him, no matter what, even after he said that. And I was writing TV shows at Sony, and I went in one day, and they said, what do you want to do? It was like the good old days, right?

And I said, I'd like to do a show for Paul Williams. And all the suits looked at me. Well, if you back the cocaine truck up into the stage door, maybe. And that was it. They nixed it. And he couldn't get a job. I mean, that was the time you couldn't get a job. But I also didn't know because it was in the 80s, as I imagine.

It was the 90s. It was the 90s. So in the 90s, I wasn't even trying. I was learning to be me. I was nearly sober. You were telling me before about how you used to send people in to your meetings. My manager, Denny Bond, would go to me. I'd send him to creative meetings for me because I couldn't leave the house.

I would say that I had a dental emergency, and so he would go and have a creative meeting on my behalf. It's how rude is that? I mean, if somebody is nice enough to offer you a job, and you send your manager because you're too stoned to go, that was me in the 80s, you know. And you said you kind of felt like you were sending people out like you were Frank Sinatra. Who I thought I was, and, you know, and then I got sober, and I went, do you know who I used to think I was? Not even, do you know who I used to be? It's like, do you know who I used to think I was? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I carried a gun until I got sober. And, you know, always I had a

permit and everything. And I got sober and I looked down and I said, oh my God, that's embarrassing. What is this thing on my hip? This growth with S and W on the side. Oh, it's Smith and Wesson. Get rid of that. Yeah, that's not who I am. That's who I was with the arrogance and the paranoia that cocaine brings. Yeah, to be drunk and stoned and carry a gun to harm you.

Exactly. Might not be the smartest thing. You know, writing children's movies. And now Tracy mentioned the Mike Douglas show. Oh, yeah. Now, it was filmed in Philadelphia. And you said that actor Peter

Lawford called you. Oh, this is in the documentary. Yeah. Yeah, Peter Lawford said, look, I just did the show, the Mike Douglas show. They're not going to want me back and all, but every host, your guest host, every guest host can ask each day for one guest.

Ask for me. Ask for me because there is some blow. And my family knows if I go back to Philadelphia, just to go back to Philadelphia, they'll know exactly why I'm going there. But if you ask me, so if you look at the episode of, and it's in the documentary, if you look at the episode of the little clip from Mike Douglas with Peter Lawford and I, we're so ripped. It's like, first of all, we look like a couple of parrots. We can't stop moving. And I'm just laughing at everything. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. You sounded like Gilbert. Drug test Gilbert. Quickly. There's actually a clip in the documentary of the two of you. We're clearly just ripped, you know. And we're talking about the documentary, so we should plug it. Paul Williams still alive.

Paul Williams still alive. I'm living proof I'm with Gilbert today. Yes. Well, that doesn't prove anything. We all loved it. Dara, too. And you said also from your father, you really adopted your drinking problem. Well, I think there's a genetic propensity to be a lush in the Williams family.

I had two brothers that were drunks. My dad was a drunk. I was drunk. My younger brother is, I think, 13 years sober. My older brother was sober when he passed away from a heart attack and all. He couldn't quit smoking. But, yeah, Williams is our, Williams is our half-half-Vegene, you know. When I was five years old, four, five, six years old at a family picnic,

they'd give us a little glass of beer and all. And I would want to sing. Like Frank Sinatra. Exactly. And for a while, when I was nine, I could. And your father used to pick you up in the car when you were a little kid, and he'd be like sloshed at the wheel. I remember spinning out in the middle of a field,

and somebody coming over and just yelling at him in the window, saying, you're going to kill those kids or yourself someday, Paul. You're going to kill them. And I wound up doing the exact same thing with my kids. When I left my wife and kids, I had a home up in Montecito. I had a home in L.A. I'd drive up and get my kids, and I was driving back and forth just as loaded as my dad was. You know, did the same thing.

What I got, though, was I finally got a place in my life where I hit my knees, said I need some help, and there were people there to help me, and they gave me my life back. And your father would tell us what happened to him eventually. He was killed in a one-car accident. He drove into the abutment of a bridge when I was 13. He was drunk, and he lived a week. He was a sweet, sweet man. I would love it if he had gotten sober, if he had found the avenue of recovery that I took,

which incidentally I don't talk about on the air in specifics. I don't mention that organization. But that organization that saved my life would have been – he would have loved. He would have loved the hearts in there. He would have loved the kindness, the spiritual awakening that was awaiting for anybody that's life is on the brink right now. End of commercial. Well, it's – And now. It's also – A word from our sponsor. Back to gratitude and trust. For anybody that's life is on the brink right now, end of commercial. And now, back to gratitude and trust. It's interesting that you and Tracy would get together and write a book about recovery because unlike you, she was not a drug user.

Never. She was a good girl, if I may say. In some ways. Tell us the bad way to say it. Not with an addictive. I was a slut. But what I used to say, I was. I did. I was a slut. But what I used to say. I was. I did.

I was a slut from a very early age. Why didn't I meet you back then? That's what Paul always says. But what I didn't do. I used to say this. I used to say, I'm fucking everybody, but I'm not taking drugs. That was my thing. And you know what?

Like, you pick your poison. I was terrified of drugs. I was terrified of drugs. I believed Reefer Madness. Like, when they show it in school. Oh, yeah. I was the kid that went, I get it. I get it. I was terrified of drugs. I was terrified of drugs. I believed Reefer Madness. Like when they show it in school. Oh, yeah. I was the kid that went, I get it. I get it.

It's a gateway drug. If you save one person, the reefer will love it. And that's what I say. If you save one person, I was that person. I never did. I was offered drugs by Hunter Thompson. I've been offered drugs by everybody. I had an agent who kept trying to have sex with me when I was in Hollywood.

And he would bring me Quaaludes. Remember the old Quaalude days? And I would just take them and I'd put them in a little bottle in my medicine chest. And I had like 50 of them. And one day, someone came in my apartment, and they went in my medicine chest, and they go, whoa, you got 50 ludes in here. And I went, oh yeah, I guess so. Can I have them? But you know,

everyone used to check everyone's, never touched a thing. I mean, nothing. And so it was a really interesting thing that we, you know, we're the yin and the yang of, and I can have a glass of wine, and I do at night. I'll have a glass of wine, or I'll leave half of it. I mean, you've seen me leave more half of glasses of wine. Doesn't it bug you also that Hunter Thompson?

It kills him. Yeah, that she didn't take it. The story is the story. It would have driven, yeah. But Gilbert, you would have loved. Did you ever know Hunter Thompson? No. You would have, this is a story I have to tell you because you would have loved this. My husband

sells rare books and manuscripts and we went out to see Hunter Thompson right before he died, actually. I wanted to see the Oscars. It was Oscar night. All I said was, I don't care as long as I get to see the Oscars. So we got to this house in the middle of like God fuck nowhere in the snow. as I get to see the Oscars. We got to this house in the middle of God fuck nowhere in the snow.

What's the name of that town again? Woody Creek. I like the other title. God fuck nowhere. I think I played a comedy call there. The windows had not been opened since 1961. He'd been smoking hash in there all day every day. You walk in

and I just want to watch the Oscars, okay? And he's got this setup where he's got a TV and he has all of his drugs, which he kept offering me, which I wouldn't take, and he has his phone. And every time the phone rings, like if you called him, it would play. You say, I can't do your voice, but it would play, you know, Gilbert, Hunter, it's Gilbert, I want to talk to you,

let's have lunch. And he had a TV where if you changed the channel, it went to whatever you were watching, to porn, and then back to a movie that was starring him. So for the entire Oscars, I swear to God. So it would be like, and now best screenwriters are, and then you'd go to like, switch the channel, be like two girls fucking in a hot tub, right?

And then he would switch it back and be like, he and Benicio Del Toro doing Blow. And then he would switch it back to like, and then Billy Crystal singing a song. And then it would go to back and be like, he and Benicio Del Toro doing Blow. And then he would switch it back to like, and then Billy Crystal singing a song. And then it would go to like five guys doing each other. And this went on all night long with all this hash. I swear to God, I went running out of there in the snow at like three in the morning wanting to kill myself. I'm so horny right now. I need to be alone for a little while.

Give me a second. Set your TV so every other channel is porn. It can't be done. Now, here's something I always wondered. I mean, it's nothing just me. The idea of, you know, suffering and being drunk and stoned and creativity. Yeah. Interesting. creativity. I always like, I think

a lot of people avoid psychiatry because they don't want to ruin what's making them so creative. I think it's an interesting question. I get that. At the headwaters of most of our creativity, our creative lives, whatever, you find a lot of broken people.

I mean, I don't think that you... What's your line about if you got a date for the... Oh, well, that's in Hollywood. Show me a comedy writer who went to the prom and I'll show you a network executive. That covers it right. That in one sentence, in a few words, why I love her, but also in one sentence covers exactly what you're talking about.

It's not my line, by the way. It's Chuck Lorre's. I cannot take credit for that. It's kind of like I think with an oyster, if it's got some kind of an irritation, it's how it makes a pearl. Oh, I love that. Yeah, and if it didn't have that irritation, something bothering it wouldn't be a pearl. I've never compared you to Pearl Buck before, but I will from now on. It's an amazing – He kind of looks like her.

Yeah, exactly. He's mistaken for Pearl Buck. Yeah, but you know what? looks like her. Yeah, exactly. He's mistaken for Pearl Buck. Yeah, but you know what? The fact is that, you know, a lot of people, you know, I mean, there were guys that said, you know what?

You're not as funny and straight as you are. You know, you're not as good, whatever. I was working on a musical based on this called The Secret Life of Queen Victoria, and I was working with a couple of really funny guys and great guys and all, and I think they were saying to me, I remember one of them saying to me at the time, you're not as good sober as you were loaded, which is, you know, the fact is now that I look back on it, I think they were saying to me, I remember one of them saying to me at the time, you're not as good sober as you were loaded, which is, you know, the fact is now that I look back on it, I think I was lying to him about being sober then, you know, so that's a relief. But I wrote in spite of the drugs. I mean, I would get a little bit of sleep.

I'd wake up and do the work that was good, and there would be seven pages of just crap from before when I was loaded and all. And also it's interesting that I had the kind of career that I did in the 70s when I hadn't crossed the line from abuse to addiction. But you go jump into the 80s and I did Ishtar. I mean, it's like, you know, the 70s was, you know. Hey, I like Ishtar. Nominated for six Academy Awards. I won one in the 80s.

I did Ishtar, you know. So there's a lot of, you know, you could tell that to kids and that's pretty much the story of my life But I also think that you were And that question always does come up Especially in a lot of the work that we're doing now And I think you can get away in the beginning With a certain amount of abuse and creativity

But I mean what's the longevity of a career? It's discipline And I think just like you did it until you just burned yourself out And then you had to go away and get clean and come back. You can't sustain – look at all the people who are real drug addicts. They're dead or they're no longer working. You can't – you've got to have that discipline at the end of the day, right? You've got to show up.

Had they not been doing drugs, would there have been a Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band? Good question. Interesting. Good question. Yeah, I think, as a matter of fact, I think that Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band probably exists because there was enough sobriety in the room to get it done. Oh, okay. Because they weren't all doing it. Yeah, exactly. I think that if you take George Martin out of the mix, there is no Sgt. Pepper.

Thank God he was there. Or you look at Lenny Bruce. You look at anyone who's just completely self-destructed. If Lenny Bruce had been a drug addict, how long would his career have been? What always got me about – when they talk about comics like Belushi or Chris Farley and they'll go, oh, there was the good side of him where he'd run naked down the street screaming at people, but then there was the bad side, the drugs. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Let me get out my dictionary

here and check out what is good and what is bad. What did George Carlin say he used to light up a joint just to do the polish when he was writing comedy? And I always wondered if a little bit of stimulation was not a bad thing as part of the creative process. Falkner wrote drunk and edited sober, or was the other bad thing as part of the creative process.

Faulkner wrote drunk and edited sober, or was it the other way around? That's Hemingway. Was that Hemingway? Yeah. Wow. I was so impressed that I'd used a blind about Faulkner, and then I fucked it up. Wow. What condition was he in when he shot himself?

I think fucked up. Oh, okay. What condition was he in? When he shot himself. Or certainly depressed. Oh, yeah Or certainly depressed. Oh, yeah. Certainly depressed.

Which seems to be... I think your brain, when you're young, can absorb a certain amount of stuff. And then you hit your middle age and it goes, time out. You know? Either you get clean or you're going to die. I do think that's true. I just think you can't do it. Interesting. And now we should concentrate a little bit on your career in this interview.

Or a lack of drugs. I mean, Paul, you became, and I remember it was like you became during the 70s and 80s, I guess, it was like where you popped up on every single show. Oh, I became better. You know, like I was addicted to this. I was addicted to, yeah, America's Sweetheart. It's what I mean. It's it's being different is tough. You know, being special is, in my case, addicting.

You know, when I was treated like I was somebody, I went any place where I would get that treatment. You know, I mean, it just plopped down a camera and a couch and i was on that couch you know i did carson 48 times the joke is that i remember six but the fact is that i became better at showing off than showing up and my craft suffered and it just i i loved the attention i love the attention i would and i would have stayed there until i actually burned out every possible you know venue of being seen. But another addiction outran it, and the addiction that outran it was my addiction to cocaine and alcohol. And one of the elements of that disease is isolation.

And so when the desire to be loved, you know, what I would call a clap trap. You know, there's a clap. I was in a clap trap. You know, I loved, and it's not that kind of clap. It's this kind of clap. Well, I did a little of both. But the fact is that I fell victim to the clap trap. I loved the attention.

I loved the applause. Well, there's a great thing in the documentary, a great moment where after you win the Oscar, the next morning, Circus of the Stars calls. Yeah, and as I said, we searched the Parachute Club of America's record books, and we're looking for a celebrity that skydives, and you're the only one we could find. It's not you, is it? And I went, yeah, it is. It was like, because I had that moment.

I just thought, okay, I just won the Oscar. Now what? You know, it's like I needed to feel, I needed to be a little more special, a little more different, a little more courageous, a little more whatever. Was it thrills, chasing thrills or just chasing the need to be noticed more? Well, you know, it's like a lot of guys who I thought were absolute assholes and I didn't know what they were talking about said to me, you're probably just trying to like prove that you're a man even though you're short. And I said, that's bullshit. And then I spent thousands of dollars on client analysis.

short and I said that's bullshit and then I spent thousands of dollars on client analysis and my therapist said you're trying to prove you're a man just because it's like the exact same thing truck drivers have been telling me for years. And one of your like bandmates or something a musician said to you at one point. Chris Caswell said I'm worried about you I fired him I fired him on the spot incidentally he's working for me still, working with me still. Incidentally, I got an email last night with our music cues for the podcast, Ms. Jackson. Excellent. But it is funny with fame.

It is one of those drugs that when you first get it, it's a real high. And then it's not even as big a high afterwards, but you have to keep it going. Like, you know, if they tell you to do porn and you go, well, people are going to see it and I'll still be famous. I took my clothes off in a movie and they changed the rating from R to PG. It's just insane.

It's so insulting. It's just insulting, you know. But yeah, yeah, I just, you know, it's addicting. You yeah, it's addicting. It's totally addicting. Tracy, do you have some of the same issues as far as being attracted to show business? Was it all about the work, or was there some desire to,

hey, let me get a little taste of this glamour, a little bit of fame? I always wanted to be an actress from the time I was very young. You wanted to be Marla Thomas, right? I wanted to be was very young. You wanted to be Marla Thomas, right? I wanted to be Marla Thomas. I wanted to be Marla Thomas and I wanted to marry Donald Hollinger.

I always wanted to be an actress and then by the time I was 27, I wasn't getting the parts that I should have gotten. I think there's a moment when you want to do that and I started to write on a bet and then within six months,

I had a huge agent and I was writing pilots and I had an overall deal and part of me wanted it and part of me still likes it if people know who I am. But really for me then it just became about the work. I'm pretty happy just being able to work every day and expressing myself. And if people know who I am, then I'm happy, sure. But I never – you know, I never experienced that enormous kind of fame that it became who I was.

I mean, there was one point when I made a documentary, and for about three weeks I became really, really well-known. And the Enquirer was following my daughter and I around. And in that moment I went, you know, this is not so great. I don't think that this is something that I really want in my life. But I never experienced the Pauly experience. something that I really want in my life. But I never experienced the Pauly experience.

But I did always want the, I've always wanted to, I've always wanted to be known for what I do. And I think when you, as long as you get to work, it's not even, I don't know, maybe I'm a little healthier than Paul. I was going to say, my line was going to be, once again, mental health rears its ugly head. I think fame or

money and recognition for your work, they give you the opportunity to do more work. I mean, wouldn money and recognition for your work, they give you the opportunity to do more work. I mean, when she says True Gilbert, I mean, you kill it in a club and then you get a better club. And as long as you keep doing the work and you don't let that go to your head in a way that corrupts you,

you just get to do better work. I think for me it was just always about the chance to keep working and get to do better work. And if that meant you get to be a little bit better known, that's how you do it. Mental health. I'm kind of screwed, too, in different ways. Let me introduce you to our friend Bill Persky, who created that girl. I've met Bill Persky, actually.

Yes, I have met Bill Persky. Since you're so Donald Hollinger and Anne-Marie obsessed. Oh, I would totally. Nobody goes on vacation for the moments that are just okay. That's why Sunwing vacationers go all in like it's a buffet of fun. Whether you're skimming the treetops like Tarzan's long lost twin, or deep end swimming with your flippers and fins. Or maybe you're just perfecting the art of doing absolutely nothing.

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by delivering stuff like your favorite cool treats, groceries, and bevies, you get to spend the summer doing what you really want like successfully cutting your jeans into jorts yes shipping the kids off to summer camp yes or winning the annual schellenberg family water balloon fight yes suck it aunt susan yep definitely the best summer ever. Squeeze more summer out of summer with Skip. Did somebody say Skip? And you wrote an episode of Beretta. Yeah, Paul, what the hell?

I was on the couch with Robert Blake. I said, I love your show. I'd love to do it sometime. He said, write one. I was the only one that did. But you've acted a bunch through the years and all, and you found a whole thing in voiceover. Is that not the most wonderful?

Oh, yes. You know? Yes. Where did that start? Oh, okay. Paul is now interviewing Gilbert. Yes. I said, Paul is now interviewing Gilbert.

He's a better interviewer than I am. Well, you guys are about to launch your own podcast. It's funny because that's when you slid into it. You started acting, but then you slid into it. Do you not love doing that as well? Yes, I love doing voiceover work. I mean, I guess what really was the main thing. Let me admit something.

I'm really not interested in your voiceover, but I have to admit something. I noticed that like three times Tracy addressed you and took things right back to you and I thought, I'm such an asshole. I'm just sitting here talking about myself. I think I should probably ask Gilbert something right now. Yeah, but I'm not as self-obsessed as you are and that's my whole thing about having anything. Exactly. So that's

what I observed. So it was like a mild moment of progress for me where I said, you know, because I don't really care about Gilbert. You don't even care about Gilbert that much at this point. Well, no where I said, you know, because I don't really care about Gilbert. You don't even care about Gilbert that much at this point. Well, no, I do care about Gilbert, but I don't think there's anything interesting about how he became a voiceover actor. But I was horribly guilt-ridden. This refreshing honesty, Paul.

And all I could think about was how many green envelopes does he get from Aladdin? You see, that's the writer in me, right? We're having a moment here. Rigorous honesty. And, you know, that's what I'm most excited about, about us doing a podcast, because you can just do that. You can just take over and not talk to the guests? No, but you can be honest. You can be just totally honest in this conversation.

That's what's a treat about sitting here, beyond the fact that we get to talk about my favorite subject. You. Me. But I just – and that's what I'm most looking forward to. Talking about you? Well, I'm not going to let you. No, I know that. But just conversation.

An honest conversation, apparently. Honest conversation. Well, since you brought it up. That's recovery. Tell us about the show since you brought it up. You haven't launched it yet? No, tomorrow. We go tonight.

Podcast one. Give us a date since this. We don't know when this will run. This won't be tomorrow. Tuesday, June 9th will be our first podcast on podcast one. Weekly. Gratitude and Trust weekly. We're starting out weekly.

You guys are weekly, right? Yeah. We are. You're weekly. Very weekly starting out weekly. You guys are weekly, right? Yeah. We are. Yeah. You're weekly. Very weekly. Very weekly. No, you're not.

Hey, Tracy's a fan of the podcast, Gil. She listens. Really? I've been binging it. And Paul hates it? Nope. No. No, but Paul, he hasn't been on it yet.

Once he's on it, he'll listen. Paul can't find his car keys. You want me to find a link to the podcast? And, you know, it's like I have a great memory. I'd like you to meet her. Hi, Tracy. I'll say, let's listen to Gilbert. He'll go, let's listen to the Nerdist.

We're on there. I go, well, soon we'll be on Gilbert. Then we can. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I love it. Okay, and it's called Gratitude. Gratitude and Trust. Gratitude and Trust.

Based on the book. You know, the concept of the book. Based on the book. The concept of the book was that recovery is not just for addicts. And it's interesting. As we went around and started talking about the book and everything, there's a kind of a connection that the two of us have that people would say, the two of you ought to be doing a show. You ought to be doing a show.

And all of a sudden, the idea for a podcast came up. Actually, I realized how many books it took to get on the New York Times bestseller list. The week we got on the bestseller list. And then I realized how many – You sold 98 books that week. And I realized how many – even a not successful podcast, how many hits you get. Yeah. I went, let's do the podcast.

It's the new thing. The new thing, yeah. You're called Norm Pattinson. Well, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. I'm learning from you guys. I think you better pick someone better. What's in his brain?

That's what I'd like to find out. You don't want to know, Tracy. You don't want to know. I listen to these podcasts and they'll be like, you know, Marie Osmond showed up on the lot wearing a pink dress and she walked in the third. Too much. It's like insane.

It's too much. How long were you on The View? How long did you work on The View? Two years. A little over two. That's where we met. Yeah. Yeah.

I loved your performance. And you introduced me to your co-writer. The gentleman who co-wrote Rainbow Connection was with you. Oh, Kenny Ashton came and played for me that day.

Kenny and I wrote a bunch of songs together. Why are there so many songs about rainbows and what's on the other side? Again, John Vandert. Rainbows are visions, but only illusions. Rainbows have nothing to do. Okay, I'll do Willie Nelson, you do me. Okay. Great. So we've been told, and some way it's too high.

Why are there so many songs about rainbows? What song? What's on the other side? Rainbows are visions, only illusions. Rainbows have nothing to hide. So we've been told and some choose to believe it.

I know they're wrong, wait and see. We one day will find it. The rainbow connection! The lovers, the dreamers, and me! I do Gilbert, you do Paul.

I will never speak again. You just ruined your voice, Paul. Wow. Okay, interview me. You be Gilbert, and I'll be Paul.. You be Gilbert. All right, all right. And I'll be evil. All right, I'll be Gilbert. So, what'd you have for breakfast?

Well, I had some scrambled eggs and some orange juice. Is it true you're as well endowed as they say you are? No, no. My penis is quite tiny. That's not what I heard. Oh, Lord. I always wanted to ask myself that question. It's barely...

I heard they called you the Log. The legend of the Log. That has been nicknamed the Enterprise. No, no. It's barely visible to the human eye. Oh, I thought you were talking about my talent. I thought we were talking about your talent. That's a cock.

Now you've done it. You've got Paul Williams working blue, Gil. Now couldn't we... I wish you would do this more often. May I talk about my balls now? What did you call them earlier? I have burglar balls. Oh, yeah, balls of a burglar.

Balls of a burglar. For going through that jungle in the Philippines. I will steal for sure. Speaking of your songwriting, the segues are not easy to make. You mean from cock to songwriting? That was like a hard... Well, I just want to ask a question

about the Rainbow Connection. You said one line in the song may be the best line you've ever written. Who said that every wish would be heard and answered if wished on a morning star? The line is, somebody thought of that and someone believed it. Look what it's done so far.

Great. God, I can't hear after doing Gilbert's voice. That happens. I think I feel every week. My inner ear that is now, you know, suddenly wants to stand up. I don't know. It's weird. Yeah, I think that thoughts become things.

But, yeah, I think that thoughts become things. I think that, you know, I'm very Jiminy Cricket about the life I've been given and the way this whole thing has evolved. Thank you, Darren. And I haven't really chased, you know, much of what's happening to me right now and all. The last 25 years, my concentration has been on my recovery and all. And it's kind of – and wonderful things have happened. Tracy is a classic example. I mean, she heard me say that my choo-choo runs on gratitude and trust, and she came up with a whole idea for the book and a way to share this message and all and everything.

So the older I get, the less and less I feel like I have to do with the creation of the best things in my life. It feels like it really is at this point all a gift. And it's not funny, but it's a really, really wonderful, comforting feeling to know that you can just get up in the morning and be led to what you're supposed to do that day if you listen. Well, the scene in the movie where you go to the Philippines, and I believe it's a shot of a busboy who knows the words to one of your songs. What I call a heart payment, yeah. Yeah, and we had Mike Nessmith on the show, who we know you know, and he was talking about why he could... Never liked him.

Interesting. Sorry, I had an attack of the Gilbert. Interesting. Say it in my voice. Yeah, never liked him. I think you should be more Gilbert. I think we're going to have to do that. Exactly.

Make you more Gilbert, yeah. Oh, I love Mike. He was so talented, too. He was just talking about gratitude, about how the faces of the Monkees fans, that even though there are parts of the Monkees that didn't mean that much to him, or he didn't appreciate it while it was happening, he looks into the eyes of people that it was such an important part of their lives.

It was a huge part of their lives, yeah. And he does feel the same kind of gratitude. Really good songwriter, too. Oh, sure. A wonderful songwriter. Listen to the band. It was a big hit. I actually had a song that was supposed to be a big hit,

and on the B-side, I listened to the band, and they turned it over and played his side. But I forget it because you got paid for the B-side, too. But yeah, his mother invented Whiteout. We had a whole interview with him about it. Liquid paper, yeah. Yeah, Mike's true. Two great no's in my life, two important no's in my life,

is I auditioned for the Mouseketeers and the Monkees, and they both turned me down, which was a real gift. Oh, Lord, was that a gift. You would have been a kick-ass monkey. I mean, a kick-ass Mouseketeer, rather. I'd have been a better Mouseketeer than a monkey. You would have been a great Mouseketeer. Do you think the Monkees would have ruined you, your career?

We're talking about singing or sex? So that's just over the edge I mean they became so big in a way it would have done what being an entertainer did for my craft because I think as I said earlier

that need to get all that attention pulled me away from songwriting there's no way in the world that I could have become a songwriter and been one of the monkeys. That was a full-time job, you know? So, yeah, it would not have been good for me.

It was great for Davey. They already had one little guy, a little guy with a big talent. And Tracy, go ahead. No, no, I was going to say, in the film, in the biography, you see people come up to you who are crying at your concert. And it's funny, like the first instinct I have is always like,

oh, God, are they pathetic? Look at their crying over some entertainer and blah, blah, blah. And then you get that feeling. You get the second thought of like, wow, he means this much to their lives. And it's like a nice thing. He has a real core group of like, oh, I shouldn't say this. I'm like Gilbert. What the fuck?

They're like middle age. They fall between, say, 50 and 60. They're usually really overweight. And they tend to be single. This is true, right? And they kind of follow you around. They just show up at an airport. You can always see them from a mile away.

Is that true? It is kind of your core group. They're always beautiful and... I've just lost so many friends. Oh, my God. It's just... The thing is I actually tweeted a great quote this morning

That applies You can't read your tweets on the internet I know I'm having a senior moment I can't remember what it was But it was perfect The Larry David show No no no wait

Never mind They're not all over me I'm feeling guilty about this And it's the Larry David show. No, no, no, no, wait. Never mind. I'll be back. They're not all over Wade. I'm taking it back. I'm feeling guilty about the fashion part. I'm going to go look for my conscious mind. I'll be right back. So summer thin.

Gilbert's rubbing off on you. This is you off drugs. But there was some brain damage, Gilbert. A little bit. A few neurons aren't quite synced up. No, but the fact is that there is a bunch of Paul Williams fans that fall into the description that she speaks of. And I think I wrote a lot. Because I wrote a lot about loneliness and heartache and feeling like you didn't fit in, I think there's that kind of emotion underneath a lot of the songs.

There's a lot of people in this world that feel that way. Well, yeah, because you wrote, all of your songs seem to be like that, like, you know, someone being lonely. Ouch Mommy songs. Yeah. Well, Rainy Days and Mondays was part and part inspired by your mom? You know, my mom used to, she would talk to herself. She would, you know, she would go, God has a plan for you, my son.

And then she'd walk off one day, she'd find me and write my little songs in the morning. I'd be sitting there. She'd go to work, and she'd say, don't worry, my son. God has a plan. And then she'd walk up. You'd hear, son of a bitch, I hope so. She'd talk to herself, and I'd ask her about it. And she'd say, which for her was a word, I'm just feeling old.

So Roger Nichols plays a beautiful melody for me and I hear what am I going to write about I remember my mom talking to myself and feeling old but that's a song where it took we wrote most of that song and it took me probably a month to figure out what I was going to do to not just be down

because I didn't want the song to just be a downer and then all of a sudden I went wait a minute funny but it seems I always wind up here with you nice to know somebody loves me. And I found a way to make it positive, which I think is kind of a feature in most of my songs, too, that they have a positive outcome. Yeah.

And I'm listening. I'm going, he does a terrible Paul Williams. I was going to say, I'd like to hear Gilbert sing that. Let's hear Gilbert do it. When there's no getting over you, my smallest of dreams won't come true. That's the way you remember me. I'm sorry, I don't sound that way anymore.

The sinus is cleared up. Talking to myself and feeling old. Sometimes I'd like to quit. Nothing ever seems to fit. Hanging around. Some kind of lonely clone. See, what I love is the fact that you know the words to these songs. He does.

Which is really touching to me. He's a fan. Why do I feel like this is going to end up in his act pretty soon? That's what I call a heart payment. He knows the words to all these songs. Even if he's making fun of you, it's okay. Any attention is good attention. Inside Gilbert is an overweight 55-year-old single woman,

and that's why he's a huge success. He didn't pull these out for you, Paul. With a lot of cats. I'll direct you to earlier episodes where he was doing, where he just got into Paul Williams songs, and he just started singing. Oh, I love that. So he didn't just trot this out because you're here.

He's actually obsessed. We're together again. Days are short and the nights grow colder. Some people get twice, but you just got older. And you never listened anyway. That's the hell of it. Oh, my God. The Phantom of the Paralyzed. Good for nothing.

Bad and bad. Told you. Nobody likes you and you're better off dead. Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. We all came to say goodbye. Oh, I love it. I would have paid to be here today.

Me too. Did We've Only Just Begun really begin as a bank jingle? Had all the romantic beginnings of a bank commercial. It did. Roger Nichols and I were asked to write the song. had all the romantic beginnings of a bank commercial. It did. Roger Nichols and I were asked to write the song. We wrote the song for this pretty little commercial. And Richard Carpenter called and asked if there was a whole song. The number one album at the time was in a Gada De Vida.

There's no way in the world that song was going to be a hit song until an angel sang it. And when Karen sang it, people responded. So Richard Carpenter saw the bank commercial? The commercial recognized my voice. I was singing the commercial. Incredible. We've only just begun. We've only just begun to live.

What lesson promises a kiss for Luke and whereon? Is it Paul Williams or is it Memorex? Is it Paul Williams or is it Memorex? Is it Paul Williams or is it Godley? Biner, listen to yourself. John Biner, we should get John Biner for the show. Tracy, speaking of writing, you were a Neil Simon fan. You started out wanting to be an actress. The Jewish Elvis. How do you make the transition?

The Jewish Elvis. How do you make the transition into writing? The truth is there was this lesbian who was in love with me. I like it already. Right there. We should devote the entire show to this story. It's a very true

story. And she's dead so I can tell the whole story. There was this lesbian who had a lot of money who was in love with me. And she was a producer in her spare time. And she also decided that she wanted to be straight. So she fell in love with Derek Jacoby, who's like the gayest person in England. And she was gonna

produce, and she was producing shows for him. So at one point she said to me, because I was funny and I wasn't getting any acting work, and she wanted to sleep with me. She said, you should write. And if you write a play, I'll produce it on Broadway. Well, I was 27 years old. I thought, I can sit down and do this.

So I thought, yeah, yeah, I want a Broadway show. I'm not going to sleep with her, but I want the Broadway show. So I sat down, and in three weeks I wrote a play. And somewhere in the middle of the play I just realized this is what I should do and then she got mad at me at lunch a couple weeks later and just sort of walked out of my life but I had a play and you know someone saw it at ICM and they took me on

and within a year I was sitting under a palm tree in Hollywood with a deal with Bud Grant who just left CBS and I had my own show on the air within a year and a half after that. So it was really fast. It just sort of happened. But if this girl,

it's how do things happen. That literally was the way it happened. I think if she hadn't said do it, I don't know what I would have done. I would probably be working at a Red Lobster right now. Well, you're both people who started pursuing acting.

Yeah. Paul too. Paul, you wanted to be Montgomery Clift. And both started writing at like 27, which is really interesting. Well, I think there's this age. I was having dinner with a friend the other night, and their son was starting to give up acting, and he's 30. I went, well, you know, you get to this age, and you go, okay,

maybe it's time that I'm a grown-up. I'd actually been in a film called Heartburn that Mike Nichols put me in. And I went, and I shot the scene with Meryl Streep and then the next day I was standing in line at Equity waiting for some roadshow production of a Beth Henley play or something. I realized

I can't live like this. This is a terrible life. Writing, that was it. I've been writing ever since. Why didn't you sleep with her? She just wasn't my type. She was really bossy and I'm the only bossy one in the room. Well, make something up.

Part of me stopped right there. Part of me went, wait a minute. Why didn't you sleep with her? I also didn't know that we both started writing at 27. I've never told that story before, actually, because she's dead. Well, she's dead. I can say it. Isn't 27 the age, the magic age, when people die?

Rock stars die, yeah. Yeah, Janis Joplin and... Yeah, there must be more. Oh, yeah, there's a bunch of them. 27 is the magic age. You die or a lesbian falls in love with you. What's his name with the guitar? Jimi Hendrix?

Jimi Hendrix, 27. Yeah, Jimi Hendrix. What? Who? A bunch of famous rock stars all died at 27. Jim Morrison. Jim Morrison. Our research team is on it.

Thank you, Dara. How old was James Dean? How old was Kurt Cobain, too? James Dean, maybe. Maybe younger. Yeah, I don't know. There you go. 27 Club. Now, I don't know. There you go. 27 Club.

Now, Jesus made it to 33. So that's pretty old. That's the rumor. But he wasn't singing. Exactly. Thank God he picked up an electric guitar. Had he been in a band. James Dean was 24.

24. Thank you, Dara. Wow. Wow. That whole fast car thing. You go 24. 24. Thank you, Dara. Wow. Wow. That whole fast car thing. You go sooner. Yeah. And was not interviewed on the Joe Franklin Show with Al Pacino.

Oh, yes. Joe Franklin came on. And, you know, Joe Franklin talks about himself quite a bit in his day. And he would have these stories saying that, oh, on one of my shows, I had on both James Dean and Al Pacino. And we did the math, and Al Pacino would have been 10 at the time. God love you, Joe. Joe, well, he just didn't, you know, well, those cards get, you know, get moved around in the later years. I'm observing some of that myself. Already. So speaking of acting, Paul,

you wanted to be Monty Clift. And I've looked, I always joke that I felt like Montgomery Clift and I looked like Hayley Mills. That was, and it was really, really hard to catch.

So you could have done Parent Trap. I could have done Parent Trap. It's true. It would have been great. And you wanted to be a movie star, really. Yeah, I didn't want to be an actor.

I wanted to be a movie star. I wanted, you know, I wanted to, yeah. I loved Montgomery Clift. My two favorite actors in the world had totally different styles. They were Spencer Tracy and Montgomery Clift. And I just, I mean, watching them, I just, I wanted, that's what I wanted. No, I didn't, I think of, you know, I didn't want to be me. More than wanting to be an actor, I didn't want to be Paul Williams.

And that's the, you know, that's the, yeah, a little time on the couch took me finally to that point of view. So once again, a fascinating story about my childhood. No, I think Peter Sellers said something very similar in an interview. That he wanted to be somebody else. He was always better at being someone else. Sure, sure. Yeah, playing ourselves is weird. I mean, if you're on a set, it takes me like two days to lose what I call losing my hands.

If I get an acting job, because there's a lot of space in between the acting jobs, there's about two days where I don't know how to sit. I don't know how to walk. I call it losing my hands. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, yes. This is really simple. This is just an establishing shot. We want you to get out of the car, walk over, walk in and walk up to the counter where you'll

have a conversation. We'll pick it up there. Okay, walk from the car to the counter. You turn into Jerry Lewis. I don't know how to do this. But yeah, I think looking back, I didn't know how to be me. I certainly didn't feel much of anything in those days. Before I drank alcoholically,

I acted alcoholically. And the way an alcoholic acts is he just doesn't feel stuff. He avoids it. He avoids it, which I did. I don't think people who know you as a songwriter are aware of the fact that you were also a child actor. Well, I was in my 20s

when I was playing children. Right, well, that's what I meant. I played a 13-year-old when I was in my early 20s, and the loved one, I played the boy Jesus. The loved one, right. And you weren't Gary Coleman or anything.

No, I wasn't Gary Coleman. Gilbert and I loved the loved one. And that had Jonathan Winters in it. Yeah, and Sir John Gielgud. Yeah, Rod Steiger. James Coburn had a small part. It was just an amazing cast and all. Sir John Gielgud and all, huge.

And here you're a kid from the Midwest walking onto a movie set. I walk onto that set, and you see that big old Panavision camera and Haskell Wexler and all Sir John Gilgud And all huge And here you're a kid From the Midwest Walking onto a movie set I walk onto that set And you see that Big old Panavision camera And Haskell Wexler And all these people And it's like Oh my god

And Frank and I Were talking before That you were in a movie With Robert Duvall That's the chase With Marlon Brando Jane Fonda Robert Duvall

Arthur Penn Little Paul Arthur Penn Yeah Exactly I actually on the set Was playing with a guitar. I shared a dressing room with a guy that had a nice guitar. And so I picked up his guitar.

I said, don't mess with that. That's a Martin. I said, oh, OK. I went and got a little guitar, painted it so it would look good. It was brilliant. And I started just doodling. I actually doodled a little song in that movie that Robert Duvall said, come here and show it to the director.

And Arthur Penn filmed it and put it in the movie. Before I was a songwriter. It was just doodling. It's doodling. You never know what's going to happen. You never know. The big amigo led me to it. Do you credit that with kicking off a musical career?

Well, you know, it's a billboard. It's like one of those moments where you look back at your life and looking from the other end, young to old, you'd never see it. And I certainly didn't. But looking back, you go, oh, my God, there's a billboard there. You scratch out two lines of a silly little song and they stick it in a movie. Wait a minute. Maybe you should examine the idea of being a songwriter.

It took another couple of years to get to that. And that brought the room to an absolute... And ladies and gentlemen, that's what we like to call room tone. I think we need Gilbert to sing a little bit of Someday Man now.

Oh, wait. He doesn't know that one. Tracy, you said you were a Paul Williams fan. So what were you a fan of years before you met Paul? Was it the movies? Was it the songs? No, it was the songs. Was there something about him?

Well, I was a fat girl, and I was sitting in my room, and I had a screwed up childhood. And, you know, Paul sang to that part in People, Loneliness. Gilbert, can you sing a couple rounds of loneliness? Loneliness? How does loneliness work? I can't sing. But his songs really did speak to that part of you that was sad.

Yeah. And I think sad people related to Paul. And so I was sad. And I remember seeing him on probably Mike Douglas, probably Merv Griffin, because I couldn't stay up that late in those days to see you on Carson. And I just remember thinking, this guy's really fucking funny. I probably didn't say fuck that. I might have been eight years old, but I thought it. She didn't say fuck until she was maybe nine.

Nine. Yeah. I have not stopped. But I remember thinking he's just hysterically funny. And I would stay up late to watch him on Carson. Yeah, me too. Sometimes I would sneak it. You know, I don't know what it was about.

I honestly don't know. I mean, I'm kind of a believer in like things they're sometimes meant to be. Anyway, so there was always, and I used to see him. I went to see him at the Universal Amphitheater, and I slugged my grandmother in the middle of the concert. Which is on tape. Which is on tape. She left me there.

She's a set recorder trying to record me and gets in an argument with her grandmother. And I slug her. I give me my phone. I slug my grandma. Sent me home the next day. Elder abuse. Elder abuse at the age of 13 listening to Paul and Helen Reddy. But yeah, I just had always related.

I liked Barry Manilow too. And Neil Diamond, you confess to. And Neil Diamond. Barry Manilow also seems to get a cult following. He does. Of people following from city to city. Because they're songs for the lonely hearts, kind of like some of Paul's compositions.

Yeah, so that was it. And then it kind of went away. And I always liked the music. I've always liked Paul's music. kind of went away and I always liked the music. I've always liked Pulse music. That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history. Thornton Prince was a ladies man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com.

Tennessee sounds perfect. Now there's Paul. Yeah. And, you know, you're an underrated comedian. I mean, you're known for being a songwriter and a singer, but you've got to, if you allow me to say, you've got a knack for comedy. Well, life is funny. At least one of us has a knack for comedy.

Yeah, I would never say that about him. Yeah, life is funny. Is there an ear for humor, sort of like an ear for music? Do you have to be able to hear it? Do you have to be able to hear the rhythm of a joke? I have no idea. I just think life is funny, and I love funny. And I love sharp funny.

You know, you talk about Carla, and you talk about, you know, reading Judd's book, Judd Apatow's book. I mean, he talks about, he wrote a luggage, he wrote a Gilligan's Island joke when he was like 10 or something. And I read it, and I went, oh my

God. I mean, the joke was, if they're only going on a three-day trip, why do they have all that luggage? Right. Three hours. It was a three-hour tour. Well, I heard that Mel Brooks, when he was auditioning for his films, he wanted the actors

to sing. He wanted to hear if they were musical. Because of the rhythm. Yeah, I think there's a connection. The Marx Brothers, old musical. I always thought Who's on First had a real catchy musical sound.

I think you hear it or you don't. I don't think, don't you think, you can't teach people to be funny. I remember when I used to teach screenwriting for years. You can teach people technique, but either you hear funny in your head like music or you don't. That's the way it's always been for me. And if someone goes off one beat if they're reading

something you've written, it's like you play a musical instrument and you're off one chord. It screws the whole thing up, right? Isn't it true of the joke? I mean, one beat and the whole thing falls flat. It can be a nanosecond and it falls flat. Well, that's why I always love to talk about the Abbott and Costello TV movie

where Buddy Hackett and... Oh, Harvey Korman. Harvey Korman were doing Abbott and Costello and the bits were, like, completely off. They weren't funny. Yeah, and the whole thing that makes it so addictive, sorry, but what makes it addictive, yeah, is with, like, a Who's on First or anything like that, where it's so musical. Yeah, the rhythm.

Yeah. The rhythm and the timing. But, like, watching a comedy piece, and I did a lot of research, and watching you go on The Tonight Show in your Planet of the Apes costume and your makeup, and you sing, if I'm correct, Here Comes That Rainy Day? Yeah. The timing, the way you're waiting, the way you're taking pauses. I mean, I'm watching a comedian. I don't think I'm watching a musician.

I'll tell you what I'm proud of about that appearance is I had a line that I still think is funny, and it still gets a big laugh. Carson asked me when he touches my orangutan face, he says, this is for a movie. And I said, no, this is six months of nothing but banana daiquiris. Now, here's something. It's a great line. Say the doc. You've acted and been friends with Pat McCormick.

and been friends with Pat McCormick. Can you tell us a famous story that had to do with a helicopter? Pat McCormick. The helicopter with Pat McCormick? Yes. Are you thinking about Sid Caesar with the helicopter? Oh, I heard it with Pat McCormick. There's a Sid Caesar version?

The aerial photo. Oh, even Tracy knows the story. I know every story, Frank. I know every story. Go ahead, you do it. I'm going to do the story for you? You do it. Come on, Tracy. See if it works for you doing it.

All right, let's see if I can do it. All right, so you and Pat McCormick, you meet and you go to a bar and you spend the entire night in a bar and you're shit-faced drunk, the two of you. Okay. Exactly. And you stumble out of the bar and it's in Burbank and it's sort of a daylight and you just can't see.

And Pat McCormick looks down at you and he says, you look like an aerial photograph of a human being. Yeah. And that's not the story. That's a good one, And that's not the story. That's a good one, but that's not the story. You look like an aerial photograph of a human being. And then he says to me...

Well, I wasn't there. I didn't know his inflections. No, but... Which made me love him, of course. He offers a lot of shade. I also like that. But he looks... He said,

you know what, little guy? I don't remember where I parked my car. You're going to have to help me find where I parked my car. I said, okay, what kind of a car is it? And he went, oh, no, that would be cheating. Pat and I in a helicopter. No, no.

I can't imitate a drunk if I never drank. This is the story I heard. If it's true. This will be funny. Well, actually, I think it may be true because I met Tim Conway. It's true. This will be funny. Well, actually, I think it may be true because I met Tim Conway, and I was once working with him, and I said, I know a story about Pat McCall. And without even completing the name, he goes, helicopter.

And I heard that he and a bunch of his pals would get together once a year and try to outdo each other with like uh the part the the dinners they throw for each other and each one would have a more elaborate expensive fancier dinner and then one time they got everyone in a van uh mccormick and he had, took them out to a heliport, and each one, one by one, was given a bag with a tuna sandwich and an apple, and they said, you know, what the hell's this? And they were put on a helicopter with a hooker, and the helicopter was instructed to circle their house as the hooker was blowing them. Wow. I wish I'd known him then.

You were not invited on that journey. I think that might have been before we were pals. You know what? That son of a bitch held out on me. I knew there was something there. Oh, my God. Sweets, why would you not do that with me? You were a great team.

A tuna sandwich and a blowjob, and you missed out. Yeah, exactly. He was big Enos to your little Enos. He was big Enos to Smokey and the Bandit. Smokey and the Bandit won two and even worse, yeah. And I gotta tell you, I mean, to this day you get off a plane in Nashville

or in Dallas or you go into a senator's office, you know, on the hill and you're little Enos Burdett. God, I love those movies. We had no idea. They still live. Oh, my God, walking through an airport with him in the South.

Yeah, we've done that. It is not fun. And getting back to Robert Blake, because I remember he eventually, I think he caught on that he then hated Carson for bringing him on because Robert Blake always had kind of emotional problems. Dees, dems, and dos. Yeah, and he felt like Carson was just using him as this nutty guy. I didn't have a real relationship with Blake. I saw him a few times through the years. We were always friendly and all. There was a certain point

where I ran into him one time with I just realized it's a story I can't tell because it involves something else. In other words, this is a story without an ending. Take it. Didn't Robert he kill somebody? Didn't Robert Blake kill somebody? Didn't he kill somebody? Allegedly.

He allegedly killed somebody. His wife. His wife, yeah. Bonnie somebody. Right. Bonnie, Bonnie. And he's dead. No, Robert's with us. But he's not in jail.

I'm really confused about the whole history of Robert Blake. He was acquitted. Well, it's L.A. So he was acquitted. It was kind of, he sort of pulled a Phil Spector or not? I don't know, but not quite. We don't know, but he's in jail. And you can't get Frank to say it either.

It's like, let's back away from that story. And Frank, okay. But I was right that there was like a little thing about like someone died. What was his wife? Yeah, well, that's a problem. Yeah, but he was acquitted. So he's still on our guest list.

Yeah. Oh, good. I think you should interview him. Oh, I would love to. Yeah. Does he do interviews? No. I don't think so.

Let's talk about something safer. How about Claudine Lange? Go ahead. What? Oh, Spider Savage. Oh, because she killed. She killed. By accident.

By accident. So celebrity deaths for 100. She got off the hook too, Paul. And so did William Shatner. Take Tracy Jackson to the blog. Oh, well, the Shatner thing. Oh, you think Shatner killed his wife? The swimming pool thing?

What was the thing in the swimming pool? She drowned in the swimming pool. Oh, she just drowned. So she just needed swimming lessons. Yeah, but if he would tell the swimming lessons. The show has taken an ugly turn. It's turned into Hollywood babble. Wow.

Who was the guy? No, Frank will know this. Who was the guy from SNL and his wife? He did kill his wife. Tony Rosato. No, someone else. No, the comedian. The comedian.

But he never actually killed her. He killed himself. He thought his wife was trying to kill him. Oh, well, he's in jail. He was in jail. Oh, he's out now? Put him. Oh, well, he's in jail. He was in jail. Oh, he's out now? Put him on the guest list. He's in jail.

No, he's out. Who was in jail? Who are you referring to, Tracy? Oh, Tony Rosato. Tony Rosato is a comic from Second City who became an SNL guy. No, this guy was on SNL. Phil, you're talking about Phil who was killed by his wife. Oh, Phil Hartman.

Oh, no, the wife. Yeah, the wife shot him. The wife shot him. Shot herself. Come on, Tracy. It wife shot him. The wife shot him. Shot herself. Come on, Trace. It's hard to keep all these things straight. Yeah, he was sleeping, and she shot him, and then shot herself. Yeah.

All right. That valley. That valley. That San Fernando Valley will do bad things to your head. I'm telling you. Stay out of Encino. Once you get north of Moorpark, all bad shit happens. Encino, and you just lose it.

You start killing people. It's like a post office, like a big post office out there. We're winding down, but I'm going to ask Paul about Ishtar, which I love. Now, please don't tell me that you're disowning it because it was part of your lost decade. Oh, no, I'm so proud of it. I think I worked 18 months on it. I think I spent the first year of it trying to get Warren to tell me I had the job. Warren Beatty was like, we just, you know, write something that, you know,

write these songs, these intentionally bad songs, to be sung by Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman with a screenplay, a really hilarious screenplay by Elaine May. Great Elaine May. Elaine was going to direct, and it was just and it was an amazing opportunity to work on something. And I kept writing songs. I couldn't get Elaine to tell me what she wanted. She said, I'll know when I see it.

She did that with the actors. She'd do take after take after take. What do you want? I'll know when I see it. And I would write stuff and write stuff and write stuff. And by then, I was on salary. It was great. Columbia was pumping money into my bank account.

And finally I wrote a song. I wrote a song called That a Lawnmower Can Do All That. That's great. Saturday morning, the sound of a lawnmower touches my soul, touches my soul. Brings back the memory of first summer love of Ella and me. That a lawnmower can do all that. That a lawnmower can do all that. That a lawnmower can do all that. That a lawnmower can do

all that. It's amazing. Gotta read Sing the Bridge. I can see you're standing in the backyard of my mind. She cracks her knuckles and the scab that's on her knee won't go away. I can see the woman waiting in her eyes and I can see the love but I can't see the Brooklyn Dodgers in L.A. That a

lawnmower can do all that. And Elaine May went, that's what I'm looking for. And I was off and running. It was a great job. Was it not hard to write a bad song, intentionally write a bad song? Oh, no. Au contraire. I would say that to write a believably bad song, to write a song that starts out great that you then screw up.

Telling the truth can be dangerous business. Honest and popular don't go hand in hand. Pretty good up to there. If you admit that you can play the accordion, no one will hire you on a rock and roll stand. It's like, wait a minute, where did they go? I saw the film recently. Elaine May came out at the 92nd Street Y and showed the film.

And it's unfairly maligned. I mean, the press attacked it because she ran over budget and because she ran over schedule, but it's funny. And Drack Weston's great. Charles Grodin's great. It's so funny. I urge our listeners to look at Ishtar.

Tracy and I went out to, where was it? The Historia, the Film Academy in Historia. Film Museum. Film Museum, exactly. And moving images, whatever. And I hadn't seen Elaine since we did it, but we were able to spend

a little bit of time with her and it was great and all. And of course, the other side of it is that Tracy was friends with Mike Nichols and all. And you actually introduced me to Mike when he was interviewed

by Judd Apatow. That's true, but I don't have any Mike Nichols stories. Not that they're funny. Well, you're a screenwriter. I mean, what did you think of Ishtar? I mean, it's not entirely successful, but there are some really great things in it. The songs are good.

And the songs are damn good. What was that guy who... No, I think Ishtar is funny. There's no question. I mean, it's no Saturday Night Fever. But no, it's a funny film. It is a funny film. I did like it.

I mean, it was an attempt to make a Hope and Crosby picture. It was. I mean, I prefer Phantom of the Paradise. But I think it's a very, it is a funny film. It is a funny film. I did like it. I mean, it was an attempt to make a Hope and Crosby picture. It was. I mean, I prefer Phantom of the Paradise. But I know, I think it's, I think it probably is maligned. And who knows why it's maligned. Maybe. But it's coming back. You know, people now really do include it in pictures that are good that people always trash.

I think it's going to be, yeah. That kind of rep, I think. I read something the other day, like, pictures that are trash that are really good. Ishtar. New York Times gave it a good, finally gave it a good review. 40 day, like pictures that are trash that are really good. Ishtar. New York Times finally gave it a good review 40 years later or whatever. Yeah, Blu-ray.

Blu-ray has a way of changing people's minds. Well, I mean, even Duck Soup was not well received. I mean, there are movies that gain a reputation over the years

and I really do believe Ishtar is going to be one. We do a mini episode on Thursdays where we recommend movies and I'm jumping the gun and recommending Ishtar and the songs

of Paul Williams. Oh, lovely. Sung by Gilbert Gottfried. Yes. Sung by Gilbert Gottfried. Why are there so many songs about rainbows and what's on the other side?

Keep singing. See, when you insulted me, I'd known Gilbert did such a good rendition of you, I would have liked him instead of Neil Diamond. Think of it that way. insulted me, I'd known Gilbert is such a good rendition of you. I would have liked him instead of Neil Diamond. Think of it that way. You know, I about maybe three or four times on stage did a bit when I didn't care if the audience was following me or not.

I used to do a bit of, this is true, years ago I used to do this. Paul Williams fucking Shirley Temple. Tracy is clutching her chest. At what age? Well, I don't want to say that, or it would just be wrong. Okay, here's Paul Williams fucking Shirley Temple. Oh, Shirley, your pussy is so tight. Oh, yes, Mr. Williams.

I really like your big, veiny, hairy dick. Oh, Shirley, would you like to give me a blowjob, Shirley? Oh, yes. Oh, boom. Oh, oh, the magic in my mouth. It feels so good. Oh, oh, I'm going to come. I'm going to come, Shirley.

Oh, oh, that's good for me. Mr. Williams. Oh, can I, can I fuck you in the ass? Oh, yes, Mr. Williams. I would be honored. Oh, Lord. I may have just had a peak experience in my life. Can I take my dick out of your ass

and smack you across the head with it? Oh, yes. I would be honored. Here's the line. Oh, my God, Gil. Here's Gil. You finally found the line. Oh, yes! I would be 100! Here's the line. Oh, my God, Gil. Here's Gil. You finally found the line. Oh, God.

They would have been the same size. Height-wise, you're the girl. Tracy's losing it. On a good ship, lollipop. Oh, you curly blonde cunt. I want to go down on it. It could have been a new lollipop on the good ship lollipop. Oh, wow.

You notice I have stayed out of this totally. He's turned several colors. Every now and then there's a little wisdom in the wound, as Oprah says. There's a little wisdom in the wound as Oprah says. There's a little wisdom in the wound that I back away. And I didn't say any of the things that occurred to me. See, if you were still drinking,

you would have really been fun in that moment. Off the air, I will share a couple lines with you that occurred to me. Can't wait. Bring them to lunch. Now these people want to eat, so we should wrap the show up. But you're both movie buffs, big-time movie buffs. And I saw a Turner Classic Movies podcast interview with you, and you were talking about Lonely or the Brave,

and you were talking about Sergeant York. So for the two, the actor and the screenwriter, we're just going to throw out some random questions. Favorite character, actor, any era? Tracy? Oh, God. John Cleese. I'm sorry. John Cleese. Fish Called Wanda is my favorite movie ever.

I don't know why. But John Cleese, to me, is hysterically funny. No matter what he does, I laugh. I know maybe he's not considered the total. We'll take it. I wouldn't have thought of him as a character actor you wouldn't?

no? really? I would think of him as a leading man in comedies but yeah if you stretch it I was going more for the sort of Walter Brennan

Arthur Honeycutt yeah George Kennedy Arthur Honeycutt go for it but I'll take it I have to

my favorite like George Kennedy like Burgess Meredith like George Kent, like Burgess Meredith, like those guys? Yeah, well, Gilbert loves Burgess Meredith. Oh, yeah. Okay, then for Gilbert, I'll say Burgess Meredith. Okay. Because I love the original of Mice and Men. Oh, brilliant.

Yeah. I'm a big Lon Chaney Jr. fan, of course. Rocky. He was pretty... I mean, he's... Yeah. Okay. Yeah, someone like that.

Paul? Eli Wallach. Great. Oh, great one. Good choice. Misfits. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Baby doll. Yeah, okay. Yeah, someone like that. Paul? Eli Wallach. Great. Oh, great one. Good choice. Misfits. Yeah, sure. Baby doll.

Yeah, exactly. But there's also, I mean, there's guys like Royal Dano. Love Royal Dano. Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, but Eli Wallach, I mean, he was just a great actor. Just a great actor. And Misfits is one of my favorite movies ever. This one's for you, Tracy.

Best or smartest romantic comedy that people don't talk about or give enough credit to? I know you wrote some rom-coms. Oh, that people don't give enough credit to? Underrated. An underrated romantic comedy. I'm putting you on the spot. You're really putting me on the spot because... Oh, shoot.

Ask Pauly another question, let me think. No, no, you do. I gotta go off the top. I don't have an underrated. I mean, when Harry How about favorite? My favorite?

When Harry Met Sally. Okay. I mean, you know, in terms of... I mean, but see, I kind of like films from the 90s. I know you guys

all love the old films. I'm really one of those sort of like 90s on people. Fair enough. Can I put you totally on the spot? Yeah. Can I put you totally on this? Yeah. Most overrated film.

Oh, the most overrated film. Probably Notting Hill. Notting Hill. Okay. I think. Good cast. I missed that one. What?

I mean, that's just maybe. Maybe. Oh, God. I'm really bad about that. I mean, maybe if you go back to the 80s. I mean, coming home doesn't count, does it? It wasn't funny. No, but I God, I'm really bad about that. I mean, maybe if you go back to the 80s. I mean, coming home doesn't count, does it? It wasn't funny.

No, but I really loved it. I love Hal Ashby. I really love Hal Ashby, Shampoo. I love him. He's very funny. Oh, my God. But when he goes down on her, I'm sorry. That's like one of the great scenes.

I'd never seen anybody go down on anyone until that movie. That's sucking my head. I'm sorry. It meant a lot to me. The next day her hair was curly. All across the board. Okay. Really? Shout out to Hal Ashby. I'm sorry I'm too horny to actually answer any more questions.

She keeps doing that. Best TV theme song that you didn't write. Oh, the best TV theme song that I didn't write. Wow. Ask to the man who wrote The Love Boat. Well, Charlie Fox wrote great ones. Charlie Fox wrote Happy Days. He wrote Laverne and Shirley. Can you write Love American Style?

Love American Style. I love that one. Charlie Fox was the best. He and I wrote Love Boat theme together and all, but he wrote so many good ones and all. The theme for M.A.S.H. is, no words in it, but just a great... Written by Robert Altman's son, if I'm not mistaken. Johnny Mandel. Oh, Johnny Mandel.

But didn't Robert Altman's son write the lyrics? Suicide is painless? Suicide is painless, yeah. But the music is Johnny Mandel. It's just great. Favorite sexual position with Shirley Temple? Well, it doesn't really matter which position we're in

as long as it says the name Black is on her dressing room door. But then to go back, I would make her shave. So I could pretend she wasn't. Wait a minute. See, that's what I wasn't going to say. And then I went, you's what I wasn't going to say. I love it when you say that place. I know you do. It's a healthy place to go to.

Thank you. Thanks, Gil, for corrupting my childhood hero. Appreciate that. All right, last movie one. Tracy, movie that changed you or rocked your world? Well, I guess we have to go back to Coming Home. Really? Coming Home.

Changed me or rocked my world. Changed my thinking about everything ever. Knocked you for a loop. I'm really bad. You know, now I'm on the spot. The movie that rocked my world was The Way We Were. Okay. But again, it's a sex scene.

It's when Robert Redford has sex with Barbra Streisand. And it's like, yes, handsome men will have sex with ugly girls. I think we got a recurring theme here. I was. You know, those were the films.. Yeah those two. Those did it. Okay. Good choices. Paul life changing movie? I'm younger than he is that's why you know.

Oh Killer Mockingbird. Etika's Feet. Great. Daddy we all wanted to have. I love it. The most amazing film. My favorite film maybe in the whole world. Robert Mulligan. Exactly.

Why are all sex and yours are all like parents? Yeah. But the thing that's great is that in my real life, I'm all about sex. No, wait a minute. No, that's not a show either. I think that movie just – there are a couple movies that drove me to music. One of them is Man with a Golden Arm, because the music is part of the environment.

The other one would be Blackboard Jungle, because it's one, two, three o'clock, four o'clock, rock-a-do-five. The music was integral to the story. It was part of the environment, not just the score. I think there was something that sucked me into film and music in those two pictures. But, yeah, good movies. All good calls. Good choices.

I can't wait to watch Coming Home again. You don't remember Coming Home? What year did it come out? 78. Okay, by then I was... Go watch it. That, to me, was like a politically correct film In that

It's like The ideal man Is a man who's paralyzed From the waist down That's what that film was telling you And maybe I was on to something You know My former boss Joy Behar has a funny bit about

Coming Home where after the sex scene Her hair is curly. It was straight before the – and she comes out and now she's got a fro. I don't remember that part. The sex was that good. Yeah, it was a very – it was definitely a mind-blowing film. Who knew? Yeah. Who knew?

I'm out of cards. Anything you want to ask these nice people, Gilbert? Well, I think we could wind it up with you as Gilbert Gottfried and me as Paul Williams. Should we lead Paul over there, or is that putting him on the spot? I am a horrible piano player, so

I would rather stay a cappella, but you know... I've been meaning to tell you that. What did it cost you to rent that thing? Nothing. They just threw it in in case you wanted to play. I didn't know your instrument of choice. No, no, no. Dream away.

Dreams are dreams run wild. Her favorite song of mine is a song called Dream Away. So now you're doing it as Gilbert? I'm doing it as Gilbert. You won't be able to talk tomorrow on your podcast. I won't be able to talk tomorrow. My favorite Paul Williams song. Old fashioned love song.

Oh, here we go. Playing on the radio. And wrapped around the music is the sound of someone promising they'll never go. Take it, Paulie. You swear you've heard it before as it slowly rambles on and on. No need in bringing them back. They never... Really, you know, it's still gone, whatever.

Just an old song. Fashion, you left out fashion. Oh, what? I mean fashion, you left out... Oh my God, which one am I? We'll be back with one of us someday. Wait, wait, what? I mean fashion. You left a, oh my God, which one am I? We'll be back with one of us someday. Wait, wait, what's the next? Before we go, plug the book.

Tell us the book. Tell us the podcast. The book, Gratitude and Trust, Six Affirmations That Will Change Your Life, written by Paul Williams and Tracy Jackson. And the podcast, Gratitude and Trust. Starting in June with their first guest, Judd Apatow. Judd Apatow?

Actually, our first guest will be Chris Hardwick. The way that it airs, I made it airs. Our first guest will be Chris Hardwick. But we're taping Judd Apatow first. You know the world of podcasts, right, guys? We tape Judd tomorrow. We tape David Steinberg tomorrow. Penn Jillette.

Wow, you're stealing all our guests. I know we are. I looked at your roster and I went, grab it. Damn it. Okay, here, so you won't have to listen to it. Here's Paul Williams interviewing David Steinberg. So, David,

tell us how you first started doing comedy. Well, I started doing comedy when I was in Canada. Well, I started doing comedy when I was in Canada. Oh, well, Winnipeg. Yes. Well, Winnipeg sounds like a

lovely place. Oh, yes. Yes, I enjoyed living in Winnipeg very much. I love Winnipeg. What a treat. Thanks, guys. Thank you, guys.

Now, Paul, could you please tell me... He won't stop the show, Paul. Could you please tell me what it was like fucking Shirley Temple? It's time for his medication. You know what? I knew he was coming. Okay, one more time. Well, David... Time for your Well, David.

Time for your medication, Gilbert. Time for your medication. Well, David, it was... I like doing a 69. I'm sure. Okay. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. My new favorite episode. Thank you, guys. At the Friars Club in New York City where we've been interviewing Tracy Jackson and Paul Williams, who revealed today he fucked Shirley Temple. Yes. As Pat McCormick watched it from a helicopter. And now let's go down to the kitchen and get shit-faced. Thank you, guys.

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