Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 91. Robert Wuhl

Episode Date: February 22, 2016

Actor, comic, writer, historian and movie buff Robert Wuhl joins Gilbert and Frank at the famed New York Friars Club for a funny and freewheeling discussion of random topics, including the sins of Ty Cobb, the genius of John Ford, the excellence of Ealing comedies, the (alleged) affairs of Clark Gable and the versatility of Michael Keaton. Also, Robert turns down "Problem Child," praises "Cat Ballou," remembers Bruno Kirby and reveals the secret history of the Academy Awards. PLUS: Rod Steiger holds a grudge! Robert De Niro mugs! Bacharach woos Dylan! Paul Newman's favorite joke! And the REAL "Crash" Davis! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Bet mode activated. The Scorebet app here with trusted stats and real-time sports news. Yeah, hey, who should I take in the Boston game?

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betting. Download today. 19+. Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca. The Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast producer of the month is Steve Corey. Thank you, Steve.

Be just like Steve and get rewarded for supporting our podcast. Head over to patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. Go to patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. That's patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Gilbert Gottfried. As always, thank you for your generosity. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Godfrey, and this is Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're here at the legendary Friars Club in New York City in the George Burns Room. Our guest this week is an actor, comedian, writer, and producer who's appeared in films such as Good Morning Vietnam, Batman, Bull Durham, Cobb, Blue Chips, Mistress, and Hollywood Nights, working alongside everyone from Paul Newman

to Robert De Niro to Jack Nicholson, just to name a few. TV appearances include Boston Legal, Franklin and Bash, Everybody Hates Chris, as well as his own HBO series, Assume the Position, and the long-running HBO comedy Arliss. Please welcome a man who, in spite of knowing me for 40 years, is still on speaking terms with me, the most knowledgeable man in show business. Oh, Jesus. Oh, Jesus. Our friend, Robert Wall. Thank you. It's great to be here at the Friars,

aptly named because I'm broiling in this place right now. What is it, 162 degrees in here? We'll see if we can do something about that. Oh, it's awful. You wouldn't know Jews ran this place. What is it, 162 degrees in here? We'll see if we can do something about that. Oh, it's awful. You wouldn't know Jews ran this place. Holy shit. Whoa. My grandmother would be bitching

how hot it is. It's too hot. I got to take off one of my three sweaters. Okay, I'm sorry. You have a show to do. He's too hot. I got to take off one of my three sweaters. Jeez. Okay, I'm sorry. You have a show to do. He's complaining already. Yeah. Now, let's start with how long we've known.

We met at either the Improvisation or Catcher in the Star. Or one of them. 19, it's got to be 76, 77. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about all the people who were around there struggling to get on stage. I remember the first night

I went to go see comics because I wasn't on stage yet. I went to the comic strip and I saw you. I saw the Reverend George Wallace back then. Oh, yes. I saw Larry Miller and Paul Reiser and Jerry Seinfeld. And I didn't think Larry was a comic strip person.

You know who I saw there was Alan – who's on Fox News? Alan Combs. Alan Combs. Alan Combs was a comic. Let's just say he was trying comedy. But he was a nice guy. Was Wolfberg around then? Dennis.

Was Dennis around then? You're coming a little late. Right about then, yeah. Dennis was there, and then there was Ellis Levinson and guys like that. Oh, yeah. And then the other people that we basically fell in with was Glenn Hirsch, Barry Diamond, Bob Shaw, Larry, Jerry. Yeah, Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld. Larry and Jerry.

Kenan Wayans comes a little bit later. Who else am I leaving out? Jack Grayman was a comic back then. Yeah. Later on then there was Dennis Miller and Bill Maher. I pretty much left. Yeah. I pretty much left. I pretty much left.

I was gone at 679. So they were just about coming in then when I left. And you remembered it. Well, I remembered it too. It's not like I forgot. But like, well, Robin Williams used to come in a lot. Yes. Yeah.

And I remember that because that was a difference maker. That was a game changer because he could come in and the act and what he was doing, he could have ten people in and he'd blow away the room. But that had a conundrum then because you didn't want to follow Robin because that was death, but you didn't want to go in before him because then you had no act. Yes. You know, so it was like if Robin's in another club, can I go to right now? Let's just one of the watch them, which was wonderful. But when Robin was there, you know, it was something to see. And he'd come in from that side door.

We'd open the side door. Although Rodney would come in, too, because I'd come with Rodney. I started writing for Rodney right away. So that was, those are good times. And I remember I used to go on stage with Robin Williams. Yeah, you did. He loved working with you. Yeah, and we used to just improvise back and forth. How many times did you do that?

Oh, a bunch of times, yeah. A lot. Did you do it at Catch, too, or just the improv? I think both, yeah. Because Robin, he liked to have someone to work off of, and I always say it was both invigorating and exhausting at the same time, but it was great working with him. But if you asked me, out of all the people whose success,

the enormity of success, we talked about Larry. But I'll throw another name in there. Chris Albrecht. Oh, my God. Albrecht and Zamuda. You're talking about a guy who was half of a comedy team that broke up. I came in after that. But he was the manager of the improv.

He put me on stage. Chris was my backer. Chris put me on stage. And then, of course, Chris leaves. Charlie Joffe and Larry Bresner, may he rest in peace now, come in with Robin. And this is the height of Woody Allen. They've just won the – or they were about to win the Oscar. They just won the Oscar.

And they – and they had the comedy and they were the kings of comedy because of Woody Allen. And it's Rollins and Joffe. And they come in with Robin and they offer – now, I'm not speaking out of turn now either, okay? There was also a common element going on involved here. That's cocaine. Because these guys were doing a lot of blow. A lot of – well, everybody. I was doing it.

But these guys were really doing a lot of it. This was the times. And Chris, Chris's best friend – remember Angel? Oh, yes. He was one of the two or three biggest Coke dealers in New York. Angel Salazar. Oh, Angel Salazar. Who would later pop up in Scarface.

Right. I don't know what happened to Angel, if he's still around or not. Chris might know. I'm sure he probably does. Yeah, and he was always hanging out. Great guy. Sam Kinnison. Terrific guy.

Well, Sam comes later. Sam's later. No, but I mean, Angel would... Well, that would make sense. It's his best customer. But that's years later. So Chris and Charlie Jaffe and Larry Bresner

helped to get Chris a job at ICM as an agent. Now, Chris had bought a piece of the improv from Bud Friedman. When Bud went to the West Coast to open up the LA Club, he sold a piece of it to Chris, and then Chris became the manager of the club. And Chris, I'll tell you, here's the great thing about Chris Albrecht, though. He knew how to put together a lineup. He was really good. He knew how to put together a lineup in that you don't have all your comics.

He knew how to take this comic and put him to have a singer here, Joni Peltz or somebody. Oh, yeah. Shelly Ackerman, you know. And then you'd have a couple different type of comics. He knew how to put together a lineup, so it built, which he later did at HBO. He knew how to put together a lineup. But the amount of success has been incredible.

Oh, yeah. Incredible. But those are all good people, I have to say. They're all really good people. What was their comedy like? We had Zmuda on the show. Comedy from A to Z. A to Z, Albrecht and Zmuda. I never saw Comedy from A to Z. A to Z or A to Zmuda.

I never saw it. No, I never saw it. It was so good they broke up fast. Right. And I remember with Larry David, he was one of those people who could either have become a billionaire or been homeless. Yeah, a billionaire would have been a long stretch. You would have never thought that. Larry's success is, whereas well-deserved, it's the most surprising.

Because you just didn't see it coming. You just didn't see it. You saw talent. You loved watching comics. The two comics you loved to watch was Larry, David, and Gilbert. Because you didn't know what the fuck the audience was going to do. And you didn't know how. This one didn't give a shit. Larry did give a shit. Larry David and Gilbert. Because you didn't know what the fuck the audience was going to do. And you didn't know how this one didn't give a shit. Larry did give a shit. Larry gave a shit.

He got pissed off. Yeah, yeah. This one didn't. Didn't they put you up sometimes, Gil, when they wanted to get everybody out of the house? Just to clear the crowd out. Because I didn't give a fuck and anything that popped into my head. And if they were booing me, I'd just do it even longer. I'm reminded of Norman's Corner, too,

the Cinemax comedy experiment that Larry David wrote starring Gilbert. I don't remember. You remember this? Yeah, yeah. Larry David was the writer of this pilot Norman's Corner. Can't even find

it, by the way. Maybe you have one. I think they threw it on with another special I did. It's really pretty. Larry's probably bought it out. Yeah. He's been known to do stuff like that. It was a Cinemax comedy experiment.

So I heard it was so bad that when Jerry Seinfeld was up for his series, Seinfeld, he said, well, I'm doing it with Larry David. And they said, Larry David, isn't he that guy that wrote that piece of shit with Gilbert Gottfried? Also, we almost co-starred in a movie together. Yeah, I fucked that up. I fucked that problem child. They came to me, actually. I met with Dennis, David. Dennis Dugan.

For the lead. Probably. And I wasn't that crazy about the movie. I mean, I just, you know, here I am coming up with Batman and Bull Dermot. It was high class shit. And here's Problem Child, which is like a piece of shit to me. And being an asshole and arrogant, I said, yeah. I don't know if they ever offered it, but I didn't give an enthusiastic enough response.

Let's go do this thing. We're going to work together, blah, blah, blah. It was two of them. It was Problem and Trial, and what was the other one? Star Wars. No, no, no. Something else. I forgot what it was.

But anyway, be that as it may. Talk a little bit about approaching Rodney when you were writing for him. He had a club, Dangerfields. I just started. I think I just became a regular or so at the improv, and I loved watching Rodney on TV. He was cracking me up down when I was going to school in Houston. We'd always watch Rodney because he had these great jokes. He had the character and everything.

And I thought, you know, this is a guy I might be able to write some jokes for. I was writing jokes for some comics in Houston. And so he had a club Dangerfields, and so one day I go up there, and I tell Tony, I think the guy's name was, who was the head of the door. I said, I got some jokes for Rodney. He goes, well, he's downstairs in the dressing room. So I go downstairs. I knock on the door.

Okay, come on in, you know. And as Rodney's want, he's naked except for the robe, which is wide open. So I'm looking at this guy. And he goes, I got some jokes for you. And he goes, well, you can try them. And I go, okay, I'm all right now, but last week I was in rough shape. Guy comes up to me at the airport. He says, loan me $5 till payday.

I say, when's payday? He says, I don't know. You got the job. And he goes, okay, the kid, the jokes are good, but don't do me. Don't do me. So I started getting $50 a joke from Rodney, which is, and then I'm just

starting out now, and then that, the fact that he was using my jokes, a joke or two, on the Tonight Show when he went on there, was total credibility to my parents. Because my father, he's a businessman and he owned a business and he couldn't understand why am i driving at midnight to go to new york 25 miles away so i can go on for nothing a reasonable question yeah exactly so but because

my joke was on the tonight show it was like you know it was credibility and my mother told me later that they had discussions what is he doing goes i know it's in his heart and my mother was very supportive saying sonny let him, saying, Sonny, let him do what he does. Let him do it. He knows what he wants. See, this is something that's so weird. When I think back on my parents, and I think, God knows what

was going through their heads. Because that was like if your kid said to you, well, I'm going to support myself. I'll buy a lottery ticket. Do you remember their reaction at all? We've asked about this. I remember one time I had already gone

to a comedy club and I was going to go again and my mother didn't want me to. Because back then, that's so... There was no comedy clubs. You couldn't make a living. No, and I remember we couldn't even get a glass.

Forget getting cab fare or money. You couldn't get a glass of soda. You were charged for a glass of soda. That must have been hard on you. Oh, yes. It was awful. And the first one to give cab fare, I think Rick Newman was giving cab fare a little bit. But he gave it to certain guys.

Yes, yes. He gave it to certain guys. Yeah. With me, then I get lucky because a couple of things. I start writing for Rodney, so that gave me credit, gave me street cred in the club. Didn't he leave messages on your answering machine, by the way? Yes, yes. And I was telling him, and he paused for the laughs.

I love that. Absolutely true story. He would go, hey, Bob, what do you think of this one? I've been working some tough rooms. I worked Vinny's Boom. Oh, that was a tough room. On the menu, they had broken leg of lamb. So what do you think?

He would do that, absolutely. So I'm doing that, and then I get lucky because I go on the $20,000 pyramid and I win. So I got a couple of bucks, so I win. And what's weird is the day it's aired, my dad dies that night. So that was kind of strange. And this is all within – and then I'm gone out of there. So like on January of – the first I got called out to do the Tony Tennille pilot. This guy Bob Shanks came in. He brought me out to do the Tony Tennille pilot this guy Bob Shanks came in

he brought me out to do the Tony Tennille I was going to have a talk show no captain? just Tony no it was Tony it was just Tony oh that was

was that her talk show? yeah it was dreadful horrible I met Bob Hope he was the guest star so the first comic I meet is Bob Hope and it's like

I wanted to meet you it's my first show hey how about that you know it's like but it was cool you met Bob Hope. And then I move out right away. I'm only there about

a year and a half at the improv. And then I move out to California in 79. Who was your celebrity partner on Pyramid? Sandy Duncan. Love that. Yeah. No, that was great. That was great. Did you win the whole amount? Yeah. Good for you. Yeah, it was helpful. I mean, I had a little... And it turns up in an episode of Arliss, if I'm not mistaken. No, that was great. That was great. Did you win the whole amount? Yeah. Good for you.

Yeah, it was helpful. I mean, I had a little... And it turns up in an episode of Arliss, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, it did. Luckily, I got cast in a movie right away. I got cast in this movie called The Hollywood Knights. And I remember I was out in L.A. to do something. I forget what. And then I decided I wanted to stay out a little longer.

And I was staying at your house. Wow. The house of the apartment? I think the house. The one up at Silver Lake? I was only there a little while, but I had an apartment in Westwood. Well, one or the other. I remember being in your house. That's got to be the house.

I remember you were auditioning for something and I'm pretty sure it was Hollywood Nights because you were going to the audition wearing a baseball cap. That's it. That's absolutely it. That's absolutely right. Wow, that's amazing. We've got a big Hollywood Nights fan in the room.

Right over here, Neil. Our documentary maker. A lot of good talent in that movie. Danza, Michelle Pfeiffer. It was all her first films. Michelle Pfeiffer, Tony Danza, myself, Fran Drescher's in that movie Gaylord Sartain Floyd knew how to get talent

That's Floyd Mutrix He knew talent That's the one thing he didn't know I like his other movie too American Hot Wax Yeah, that's a good movie too Yeah, so I got that When did you appear on The Dating Game?

I found that interesting Oh, well When I first started doing stand-up The Dating Game was a paying gig interesting. Oh, well, when I first started doing stand-up, The Dating Game was a paying gig. It was an after gig. And you could make, you know, you would make your rent payment by going on The Dating Game. And they loved using comics. They used, Tom Selleck was on it.

Oh, yes. I mean, Pee Wee Herman, Andy Kaufman. We'd all, it was a way to pay rent. So I would go on, there's different characters. One time I was Lawrence Talbot. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's great. I went on as different people.

I went on one time, I got myself all band, that's great. I went on as different people. I went on one time, I got myself all bandaged up with blood and I went on as a, and I won twice. I used to do a routine about this, about going on the dating game and I remember I won and I went on a date with the chaperone.

I always joked he got laid and then I always joked about the Arm & Hammer baking soda. I got like 50 pounds of Arm & Hammer baking soda, you know, it was something. But the dating game, I was on about four times because they liked to have me out And then I always joked about the Arm & Hammer baking soda. I got like 50 pounds of Arm & Hammer baking soda. But the dating game, I was on about four times because they liked to have me on because I could think on my feet.

And it paid the rent. Pee Wee Herman's was always on there. All actors and improv people went on there because it paid the rent. Interesting. Yeah. Getting back to the problem child where you said no to that. That's after Batman. Yeah. You told a story about someone you went to college with.

Dennis Quaid. Yeah. Yeah, Dennis Quaid and I were classmates. And at the time, I got the script, and it was really, I just thought, so, you know, I said, what do I, this is, you know, and I said, Glenn, Dave, I go, Dennis, you know, this is a real piece of shit. You know, should I do it? I was very high standards then. And he said, Dennis, this is a real piece of shit. Should I do it? I was very high standards then. And he said, yeah. He goes, I wish I would have done five more pieces of shit when I was doing it.

I wish I had done five more. Do them all. And he was right. He was totally right. But they had moved on by that time. And what are you going to do? Well, we should point out that one of the writers did cry at the screening. Oh, yes.

Of Problem Child. at the screening. Oh, yes. Of Problem Child. So, Scott. Yeah, it was one of those movies that everybody was expecting it to be a complete failure. Yeah, no, very successful.

It shocked everybody. It was another one. I can't think of the other one. It was another one like that, too. You know, what's going to happen? So you're bouncing around in L.A., and you wound up writing on a cult comedy show,

Police Squad. Oh, Police Squad. Police Squad happens right after Hollywood Nights. I had auditioned for the Zucker Brothers for Airplane. Right. You know, me and a thousand others. Me and Letterman and everybody else auditioned for Airplane. But they hired me to write Police Squad.

And that was a great experience. One of my favorite shows. Very short-lived. Yeah. Very short-lived. Very funny. Great. Met some people.

Learned a lot. You know, it eventually became the Naked Guns series. But I liked working with those guys a lot, met some people, learned a lot. It eventually became the Naked Gun series. But I liked working with those guys a lot, a lot. I learned a lot. And Joe Dante directed your two episodes. He did. Future podcast guest here. Good guy.

Yeah, director of Piranha. And Gremlins. Gremlins, yeah. Gremlins, yes. I found it interesting. I found a quote Matt Groening talking about Police Squad saying that he thought one of the reasons it didn't succeed was the rapid fire of jokes were too much for the audience at that time. I think he's probably right. The head of ABC at the time, he was a good guy so I won't use his name, he made the comment, and the problem with Police Squad is you have to watch it.

And it sounds ridiculous. Yeah. But it made a lot of sense. I don't think he knew it made a lot of sense. But it did make a lot of sense. And it's like, but it made a lot of sense. I don't think he knew it made a lot of sense, but it did make a lot of sense. And it's like it's funny. Zucker and Abrams, it's like how many filmmakers watch their films and think, oh, I know how to do that. No, very difficult.

Yeah, yeah. Very difficult. Oh, a lot of copycats and yeah. There were so many. And they would even hire Leslie Nielsen thinking, well, that'll – Leslie's funny. Leslie's very funny. He'd have this constant – you know what he was?

His whole practical joke was he had one of these fart machines. I remember. He was obsessed with it. It drove you crazy. It drove you crazy. You know, the first 20 times it's kind of funny, you know, but after that. Oh, he was obsessed with – I remember one time he was, I was working with him, and he was, I said, oh, I have one of those.

It never really worked. And he goes, okay, which type do you have? Oh, you're great. Is this the type with the black bottom and the red top? Because that's worthless. So he was a real craftsman. Yes, yes. He was an expert on these fart makers.

Okay, so he was a fartatologist. So when did things look up, Robert? It changes with a couple of things. A couple of things in a row. One is Mary Lambert sees me at the improv in L.A. Lambert sees me at the improv in LA and hires me to improvise the beginning of a scene with Keith Carradine for, she was going to direct Madonna's Material Girl video. And we had this thing in the beginning where I was the yes man to his Howard Hughes-esque studio head. And I was doing this thing and it started the beginning of Material Girl, which was

the biggest video of its time, and that helped. Then Barry Levinson, who I auditioned for Diner with, and I auditioned for two or three times, was very supportive. You auditioned for Gutenberg's part of Diner, yeah. Yes, and he cast me in Good Morning Vietnam, and that was a great experience. Of course, Robin and I were friends beforehand, so that was really nice to have somebody you knew, and that was just a great experience. It was great people on that. Just terrific experience. Good Morning Vietnam. Which I then

auditioned for and get do the worst, for the director, Ron Schell will tell you the worst audition in the history of mankind is my audition for Bull Durham. And he said it's the worst audition I've ever seen. Hire him immediately. Why was it so bad? There was no part. It was written like three lines.

Pitching coach. The pitching coach. And I spoke to Bruno Kirby, the late, great, great Bruno Kirby. And I said, Bruno, I ain't got a hook on this guy at all. He's only got three lines. And Bruno says, well, if he's the pitching coach and you've got the manager of the team, my thinking is if the manager goes up through the ranks, they take their pitching coach with them. So I said, got it. I'm a yes man. That's all I need to know. So then it became a yes man. So he would say, in the script, it might say, what do we got today? He goes, it's say something

like, okay, we're going to put Lelouch in. And I would say, I'm good with that. And then it would say, you're going to put Lelouch in. I go, I'm good with that. He's the man. He's the man. He's the man. So I just start going crazy. And I start doing all this baseball jive that my dad had taught me because he was an athlete. And I was all over the place. And he said, hire him immediately. And I get to do the movie, which is a great piece of work. And I get to ad lib the line that lives on, the candlesticks line, which lives on forever.

And Ron keeps it in the movie. And that helped. And then from that Tim Burton Marion Dougherty the casting director who was always a supporter of mine she had me come into audition for Garp

at the time and a bunch of other stuff and then she had me meet Tim Burton for Batman and that changes things you know because Batman's a whole you know at the time

it's the biggest movie ever made and it was a whole lot of fun and I was old enough to appreciate that at the time I'm in my I'm in my how old was I in Batman 36, 37 I was old enough to appreciate that at the time. I'm in my, how old was I? I'm 36, 37 then.

So I get to appreciate that. Nice run. Yeah, that was a good run. And then I direct my own movie and then Arliss happens. Open season. Yeah, then Arliss happens right after that.

We want to ask Gilbert and I always talk about character actors on the show and we want to ask you not only about Bruno but about J.T. Walsh. Great. From Good Morning Vietnam. We've lost

everybody from Good Morning Vietnam. Not much left. Robin's gone. J.T. Walsh is gone. Well, Forrest Whitaker's around. Forrest and Richard Portnow. Right. And we lost Noble Willingham, who played the colonel. He was funny. It was great. We laughed a lot, the two of us. No, it was... Bruno,

he was talking about the maitre d' of life. He was like, can I catch you something? Can I hand you something? Please, can I... He was like... He was the maitre d' of life. He was like, can I catch you something? Can I hand you something? Please, can I? He was like, he was the maitre d' of life. I adored Bruno. What was great is when I turned 50, I had a birthday party. I invited Bruno to the dinner.

And Bruno didn't put up with any bullshit. Bruno would tell it like this. And I had a friend named Rod Lurie, who was a film critic at the time at a radio show. Later became a filmmaker. He directed movies like The Contender. And he did, what else did he do? He did a couple of good movies. So Rod comes in and meets Bruno.

And he goes, I go, Bruno Kirby, Rod Lurie. And Rod says, I am such a fan of yours. And Bruno goes, really? Well, you ripped me to shreds in the show. And he just calls him on it right to his face. And I lose it right there. I bust up laughing so hard. He just busted him right in there.

So that was great. Bruno was special. Bruno was special. People don't know he was a showbiz kid. His father, Bruce Kirby, was a character actor. He grew up in the business. Bruno was very special. And Michael Keaton.

Keaton's great. Well, I first met Keaton because he was doing comedy. Yes. Michael was a special. And Michael Keaton. Keaton's great. Well, Keaton I first met because he was doing comedy. Yes. Michael was a stand-up comic, and I'll see him next week. And Michael Keaton might be my favorite actor. When I heard, I remember the whole Batman thing back then. You have to understand, when it was announced that Michael Keaton was going to be

Batman, there was outrage. Oh, yes. It was, here's this comic we've done, Mr. Mom. Sure. And I knew Michael, and I had seen, I don't know if you ever saw a movie he did man there was outrage oh yes it was here's this comic we've done mr mom sure and i knew michael and i had seen i don't know if you ever saw a movie he did when he's a junkie clean and sober he's great this movie michael had a darks head i knew michael's a pittsburgh kid with a dark side and if you look at beetlejuice how brilliant he is in beetlejuice and how michael keaton like i said might be my favorite actor and i knew knew, but the outrage on Michael Keaton was unbelievable. Then I once asked, if you hadn't gotten Michael Keaton, who were you going to go for?

They said Steve Martin. Oh, my gosh. This is true. Wow. This is how Peter Guber and John Peters thought. And Tim Burton, he was the anchor here. And then the Jack thing happened, which was the greatest thing in the world, was Jack. But it was great fun.

Great, great. I used to call them the comic book fundamentalists, Michael Keaton. Oh, really? Yeah, the people that were screaming about his casting. Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, Ben Affleck's nothing compared to Michael Keaton becoming Batman. Yeah, but he pulled it off. Oh, Michael's a good actor.

Have you seen Spotlight? Not yet. Good movie. But I love Birdman. Birdman, he pulled it off. Oh, Michael's a good actor. Have you seen Spotlight? Not yet. Good movie. But I love Birdman. Birdman, he's great. Birdman, he's great. Got to ask you about some of those other people in Bulldorm, too. An actor who died too young, a wonderful character actor, Trey Wilson.

Trey was a great guy. Who was burning bright. I mean, he's in Raising Arizona. He's in Raising Arizona. He's in Arizona, and he's wonderful. And he was in Bull Durham as the manager. He was in the middle of shooting Great Balls of Fire. He's Sam Phillips.

And he was on his way to the airport to play Miller in Miller's Crossing. Because the Coen brothers loved him. And he has an aneurysm, and he dies. Terrible boss. Terrific, funny actor. Great guy. We became friends. Great guy. Miller's Crossing, because the Coen brothers loved him. And he has an aneurysm and he dies. Terrible Boston. Terrific, funny actor. Great guy. We became friends.

Great guy. He also was a Houston guy. We had been taught by the same teacher down in Houston, a guy named Cecil Pickett. And great guy. You know this actor, Gilbert. He's the furniture king, Nathan Arizona. Oh, yeah. Nicholas Cage steals the baby.

Oh, yes. And he's just wonderful. Yeah. And, and you were saying that you were listening to this podcast and when I recommended After the Fox.

After the Fox is an underrated great comic movie. It is, I was telling Gilbert that when it first came out, there was a theater, the Blue Star Cinema

opened up in Watsong, New Jersey, opened up and that was the first movie they showed. So as a promotion, they had this single of After the Fox, the Burt Bacharach, Hal David single, and if you won a lottery, answer the question. And I won. Yeah.

And I never picked up the single. And to this day, my brother, if you call him up today, he'll say, you know, Blue Star Cinema is still waiting for you to pick up that record of After the Fox. But the interesting thing about After the Fox is I spoke to Neil Simon about this. It's his first screenplay. Yeah. It was free. He hadn't had this success yet. And number one about it is

he said, because it's a brilliant screenplay. You know, it's a satire on movie making. It's a satire on Italian cinema. It's also a satire on caper movies. It's also a thing about a guy with his mother and his sister. This thief, the fox. And so it's all these things.

And it's brilliant. And the casting is brilliant. However, he said something interesting to me. He said, DeSica directing it, he said, never let anyone who doesn't speak your language direct comedy. He said, because DeSica didn't know where the jokes were at all. He had no idea, and he would keep turning to Sellers and asking him, is this funny? And Sellers would say yes.

He had no idea. Is it true they didn't get along, DeSica and Sellers? I can't imagine Sellers getting along with anybody. I mean, who did Sellers get along with? Kubrick. That's the only one he got along with, Kubrick. And a little bit on and off with Blake Edwards. Yeah, I heard originally Sellers really wanted DeSica, and then he hated him.

I would believe that. I absolutely would believe that. Well, you've got to remember, it's also a takeoff on Big Deal on Madonna Street. Oh, yeah. You know, because DeSica directed the comedy. Right, that's a good comedy. So it made sense. But on the casting, I came to Miroff and Martin Balsam,

but I got to meet Victor Mature at a golf tournament. And I asked him about After the Fox, and he loved it. Because that's the most underappreciated possibly comic performance supporting. Because he's doing a send-up of himself, a send-up of all those guys, and he is great. And Victor Mature was a funny guy to begin with. When he was, he told the story about joining the country club. I'm the actor, and I got 50 movies to back me up. Victor Mature was a funny guy to begin with. When he was, he told the story about joining the country club. I'm the actor. Oh, yes.

And I got 50 movies to back me up. Victor Mature was funny. I don't think of him funny. I think of him in dramas like My Darling Clementine. Yeah, and Demetrius and the Gladiators. Yeah, I don't think of him in dramas. Or every movie where he's got a boxing kangaroo. He's always got those movies of Betty Grable where there's a boxing kangaroo somewhere.

He does show up in the monkey movie. He was 4F. Oh, that's right. He's in Head. Yes, he is. Yeah, and there he plays in. Juan Tontan. Juan T 4F. He's in Head. Yes, he is. And there he plays in... Juan Tontan is in 2. He plays Tony Powell.

Tony Powell. Yeah. Tony Powell. Gina Romantica. Gina Romantica. And Gilbert, I think you saw it once, and yet you memorized the theme song. Oh, yes. Da-ding-ding, da-ding-ding, da-ding-ding, da-ding-ding.

Who is the fox? I am the fox. Who are you? I am the fox. Who are you? I am me. Who is me? Me is a thief. You give your poor, poor mother grief. So after the fox, after the fox, into the ha hunt with chains and locks.

So after the fox, after the fox, somebody's always chasing. After the fox. Nicely done. Where is the gold? It's in the truck. Where is the gold? It's in the truck. Where is the truck? I won't tell. We'll make you tell.

Then I will lie. You make your poor, poor sister cry. I'm a fucker. It's a terrific movie. At one point I read somebody was going to remake it, because it's very funny. I mean, it's... But it was interesting,

because I talked with Simon about it. He goes, don't ever let a person... And it's a good room of thought. Don't let someone else speak your language. Direct comedy. Do you know? It makes sense. Seems like a winning idea.

A Hollywood movie, a production covering a heist. Now, that song was, of course, Burt Bacharach. Right, right. You said you had – A Bacharach story? Yeah. Okay. I have a dear friend, Steve Tyrell, who plays up the car file Carlisle.

He's done a – I've heard him on your podcast. Right, exactly. Steve, in the 60s, was a young kid right out of Texas. He was like 18, 19, 20. And he gets a job working for, I think her name was Frances Greenberg, who ran one of the big record labels up here. And so he got to work in the Brill Building and the other one next door, 1350, whatever it is,

with Carole King and all them. And he said, you know, it was Barry Mann and Cynthia Wheel, Bachrach and David. And he said, in the 60s, the two big songwriters that everybody wanted the next song for, it was two songwriters. One was Burt Bacharach and the other was Bob Dylan. Everybody wanted the next Dylan song or they wanted the next Bacharach song.

So Bacharach figures, I'm going to top them all. I'm going to get Bob Dylan to sing one of my songs. So he writes a song for Bob Dylan. True story. And the song is called Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head. And if you listen to it, it's crying, it's not for me,

nothing seems to fit. It's written for Bob Dylan. So he sends it to Dylan, Dylan doesn't respond to it at all. So now, they've got to record this song because it's in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. They have to have it. And everybody's turning down this song. Everybody.

Finally, Steve Tyrell says, hey, you know, my old buddy from Texas, B.J. Thomas, just had a hit. We took on a feeling. So he said, okay, he's had a hit. We'll go with B.J. Thomas. So B.J. Thomas flies out to California. The night before they're going to record it for the movie, he gets hammered. Really shit-faced. And so he comes out the next day

and he sings it and Bacharach is furious at his voice. He says, this is awful, but you're coming back to record the single. And he listens, because the single, the version in the movie is not the single version. And so it's different. So he does this. Now, nobody wants to release the song. They can't

get the song released. B.J. Thomas' manager wants it to be the B-side of the single. And then they said, you're crazy, you're crazy, you're crazy. And Tyrell said, it's the only time that I came close to payola. I told one of the guys who was in control of the market saying, if this isn't a hit, I'll give you 10 grand. So he

put it on. Of course, it becomes this huge hit. Now comes Oscar time. It's nominated for the Oscar. B.J. Thomas is nominated to sing at the Oscars. So he brings Tyrell with him because he doesn't know anybody else. So they're going to the Oscars. These two guys were so out of this world, it's incredible. So they show up at the Oscars, which happens to be the one year.

It's the year that Liz Taylor has decided to come back after not being there for like 10 years. So she's wearing the low-cut Cleveland dress, and she's got the Hope Diamond that Richard Burton had given her on her hand. They go to the party, the Governor's Ball. They win the Oscar. They go to the party. The only person they know there is Dennis Hopper because it's easy rider time.

So they see riders. So they go to him, and they're sitting there. Liz walks in. Dennis Hopper gets on top of the table and goes, Liz! Liz! Liz! And he said, get over here, because she had played his mother in Giant. So she comes over there, and Liz goes, Dennis!

She goes over there, and he goes, Liz! And he sees the rock. I figure he goes, Liz, is that rock real? She goes, yeah, and the tits are too. He said, Liz, it was a broad. People love Liz Taylor. Yeah, that's the story. I'm trying to wrap my mind around Baccarat writing a song for Bob Dylan. But doesn't it make perfect sense?

When you hear nothing seems to fit. Hey, it's not to me. Nothing seems to fit. I'm only thinking about them. Brings to mind your old bit about Dylan and Floyd the Barber. Which I still do. You're still doing that in the act?

Yeah, yeah. With me, an old bit. Sure, yeah, everybody. Yeah. Now, when we get to movies, by the way, talk about After the Fox. The other one, I don't know if you ever discussed this movie. I'm sure you have. Yeah.

We talked about Westerns, right? Yeah. Where do you stand on what I think might be the most underappreciated comedy of all time? Cat Baloo. I like that picture. Cat Baloo is funny. Yeah, Lee Marvin was funny. The whole movie's funny.

I once ran into Jane Fonda at an event, and we talked about, I asked her about, I saw her on Sunday, and she goes, all these shitty comedies she made, like Sunday in New York or any Wednesday or whatever it was. She was in all those 60s sex comedy, and she goes, they were in New York or any Wednesday or whatever it was. She was in all those, like, 60s sex comedy. And she goes, they were all shitty, and I was in every one of them. And I go, yeah, but you were in one good one. She goes, Cat Baloo. Cat Baloo.

You remember, she got nominated for Best Screenplay, too. Cat Baloo got Best Song nomination with Stubby K and Nat King Cole. Oh, yes, right. Remember, there's something about Mary totally ripped off Cat Baloo. With the guy singing the songs all the time. Oh, yes, yes. That's a total homage to Cat Baloo. Cat Baloo is so smart and funny. It is one of the great lines of all time.

I used to show it at the writer's room at Arliss, where Lee Marvin goes into this speech, and he's drunker than hell. And he goes into this whole thing about, he takes a hit, and he finally goes into sense memory for something. He talks about, we used to be a brand of men in the old days. We used to take two shows on Saturday, three on Sunday. Not a person

didn't tip his cap. Not a woman didn't come by and say, hey kid, how's it going? We did all this stuff. Two shows Saturday, three shows Sunday. Bing, bing, bing. And he starts shooting everything. And then suddenly he goes and then it hits him and he goes, whoa, what happened? And somebody says, I ain't never seen a man get through a day so fast. It was like this amazing line coming out of nowhere.

I haven't seen it in years. It's really funny. We should talk about it on the show. My wife hates it, so you know it's funny. Another. She don't know fucking comedy. I remember we were also talking a favorite film of all of ours

and that's To Be or Not To Be. The Lubitsch version. Oh yeah, not the Mel Brooks version. No, no, no. The difference between the Mel Brooks

To Be or Not To Be and the Lubitsch is the difference between Hamlet and highlights from Hamlet. Right. To Be or Not To Be is a pretty perfect film

for me. There's a couple of them I put in that category for just my own taste. To Be or Not To Be is a pretty perfect film for me. There's a couple of them I put in that category for just my own taste. To Be or Not to Be is a great film. I tell you, I'm a big fan of Charade. I think Charade... We talked about that one on the show. Charade is a pretty great movie. And he's still with us, Stanley Donnan.

Yeah. He's in his 90s. Stanley Donnan, if you think about it, for my mind, he's probably directed two of my top ten movies of all time. He directed Singing in the Rain. Right. Singing in the Rain. Right. Singing in the Rain, which is a much better movie than An American in Paris. Singing in the Rain might be.

An American in Paris won the Oscar. Yeah, well, yeah. But Singing in the Rain might be. You know the whole back story of Singing in the Rain? Arthur Freed, who ran the MGM musical, you know, he ran all the musicals. Well, he was a songwriter. And he owned all the, so he'd written all the songs. You know, Singing in the Rain, and You Are My

Lucky Star, and all that stuff. So he says, listen, I got all these songs, they're coming off of the Oscar. And he says, went to Comden and Green, I think it was, and said, go write a movie and use these songs. I don't care how you do it. And use these songs. And that's what they did. They had all these songs. I didn't know that. And they had to write a movie. They write Singing in the Rain, which

I would argue, along with Sunset Boulevard, is probably the two best movies ever about Hollywood, is Singing in the Rain and Sunset Boulevard. But what's interesting is, a great story I heard also on it, is that Arthur Freed, they're watching the rushes from the movie. And they realize with Donald O'Connor they had a home run here. But they didn't have a song for him. They didn't have a single for him. So he tells whoever it is, Comden and Green, he goes, go write a song for him. They didn't have a single for him. So he tells whoever his common degree, and he goes, go write a song for him.

What kind of song? They go, you know like Cole Porter's Be a Clown? They go, go write a song like that. So they write Make Him Laugh, which is a total rip-off of this. One is, be a clown, be a clown. All the world, da-da-da, is

a clown. And they write, make him laugh, make him laugh. Pretty damn close. Cole Porter visits the set. Arthur Free says, you gotta see what I'm doing here. You gotta see what I'm doing. And they're doing make him laugh. And they said that, you know, so Cole Porter's watching this

and he doesn't, Free doesn't get it. He doesn't get it. And Cole Porter said, would you excuse me, I'm not feeling really well right now. And he goes, but they totally ripped off for you to make them laugh. But that's how Singing in the Rain came about. It was totally just a bunch of songs. That is good stuff. Actually, that's how American in Paris started.

People think American in Paris, Gershwin wrote. He didn't write that. You know, American in Paris was written in 1952 because Gene Kelly said, you know, let's put together a bunch of Gershwin songs. We'll have a G.I. in Paris after the war. Well, Gershwin died in 1938. He didn't know anything about that. He wrote American in Paris, which was a 10-minute concerto.

And then they just made this movie out of American in Paris. It wasn't an original thing like that. It was like a musical. They just put it all together. We want to ask you more stuff about movies, but as long as you brought up Lee Marvin, Gil, tell Robert that Lee Marvin story.

Oh, there was... So good. Roger Ebert said that one time he was sent to interview Lee Marvin. And Lee Marvin is sitting by the pool in like a beat-up bathrobe, smoking a

cigarette and sipping on a scotch. And he's got his little dog, like a chihuahua, jumping around. And his wife comes home, and she was out of town for a while. And she says hello to everybody, and she looks down at the little dog. And the little dog has something in its mouth. So she goes, oh, what's that in your mouth? And she takes it out and she goes, it's a pair of women's underwear.

And she holds it up. She goes, these aren't mine. And Lee Marvin looks down at the chihuahua and goes, bad dog. I love Lee Marvin. I thought Lee Marvin... No, he's great. I mean...

You've seen Prime Cut. Yeah, great movie. And Hackman. Yeah, no, it's a true... I just saw it recently. Yeah. So great. And I've talked about it on the show Point Blank.

Point Blank's the John Warman film, yeah. Yeah. That's a good film. That's Reagan's last film, isn't it? I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah, Reagan's. Love Lee Marvin.

What do you want to talk about? You want to talk about sports movies? You want to talk about sports movies? You want to talk about Abbott and Costello? Love Abbott and Costello. We talked about Abbott and Costello. I loved Abbott and Costello. Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Pretty great movie.

Yeah. Pretty great movie. And we were talking both about what an underrated straight man. Bud Abbott. Bud Abbott. Yeah, we talked about it. He was great. And we talked about Dean Martin.

Yeah. Dean Martin being another great guy. Yeah, tell talked about it. He was great. And we talked about Dean Martin. Yeah. Dean Martin being another great guy. Yeah, tell... Well, I was once with Shirley MacLaine, and she said, best comic actor I ever worked with was Dean Martin. Hand down. Had better than, you know, as good as Lemon is, as good as Sinatra was, as good as all these guys are.

She goes, Dean Martin. Dean Martin could do anything. You know, it was an interesting question. Here's one. I was with Nicholson one time, and I said, who do you think in the history of Hollywood, this is 1990, who do you think in the history of Hollywood, this is 1990, who do you think is the most pound for pound,

had the more chops and talent than anybody in Hollywood? And I asked Richard Dreyfuss the same question and all three of us came up with the same answer. Just pure talent. Who could do anything. You mean like Sammy, like all kinds of talent? Yes, but as far as Hollywood,

who could do anything, act, do anything and act in different types of movies and pull it off. And all three of us came up with the same answer. Boy, got to think about that. It was interesting. Now, this is before Meryl Streep, mind you. Is it a man? Yeah.

He died recently. Oh. I'm stumped. Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney. All three of us came up with'm stumped. Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney. All three of us came up with the same answer. Mickey Rooney. I was thinking of that because they one time said to Sammy Davis Jr.,

they said, everyone says you're the greatest entertainer in the world. And Sammy Davis Jr. said, I'm not. Mickey Rooney is. Mickey Rooney. When you stop and think, okay, you know he can sing and dance. Okay. And he was in the R-Gang he started in.

Oh, yeah. And there's also, but then you think about Requiem for a Heavyweight. Oh, yeah. Oh, great. And you think about the Black Stallion. And did you ever see him do the comic,

that thing for Playhouse 90, when he is a, oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. I mean, but he could make it laugh. You know, Boys Town, he can make it cry. He's Andy Hardy and everything.

Plus, which it goes, it was funny, because a lot of the intelligentsia will say, well, he had Judy Garland, and it's like, bullshit! He had to keep Judy Garland awake! He had to carry her! She's so drugged out! Mickey carried her totally! Do you know?

But it was interesting. All three of us came up with Mickey Rooney. There's no slged out. Mickey, carry her totally. Do you know? You know, but it was interesting. All three of us came up with Mickey Rooney. There's no slouch in comedy. Sammy Davis. No, he's great. Yeah. I mean, we're not going to talk about Breakfast at Tiffany's. We'll forgive him that.

But that's not his fault. That's a piece of casting, you know? Right, right, right. Yeah, I remember. But look how funny he is in Mad, Mad World. The thing with him and Hackett. Hilarious. Him and Hackett together are just, you know.

Jim Backus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, I heard a story about Mickey Rooney. Go ahead. That he used to have a thing that he would get together, and the whole group would go, oh, Mickey's going to do it. Come on. And allegedly, according to this story,

Mickey Rooney would go to the payphone, call his wife up, and while he was talking to his wife and telling her how much he loved her, he'd be fucking or getting blown by a chorus girl in front of everybody. You know, when I read

the biography of Mickey Rooney, I don't put it past him. He was a notorious, he's Ava Gardner's first husband. Oh, yeah. First husband. I mean – and he's also a huge gambler with betting and he was fucking everybody. Yeah. So I don't see that beyond the realm of possibilities.

Isn't there a new book? I think there's something – Have you read the Bob Hope book or the John Wayne biography? I haven't read it either. They're both great. Different but great. I know the Hope book is heavy on his philandering. Yeah, but it's just

you find out, it's a mixed bed because you find out, you know the megalomaniac, you know the cold guy that he is, but you do get respect the fact that at one time he's the number one box office, TV, movie, at the same time. Crosby's the other one, but

he had the number one radio show, TV show, and movies. He was number one in all three at the same time. Crosby's the other one, but he had the number one radio show, TV show, and movies. He was number one in all three at the same time. And the work, and of course the writing, and constantly... And of course he starts the tours. He starts the overseas tours and everything, basically. He deserves credit for that.

So there's a lot to... And he has this great penmanship, amazing penmanship, and he would write everybody a handwritten letter, at least they think so. But wasn't it also famous that every one of the starlets he'd take on those tours, he'd fuck? Probably, yeah.

Marilyn Maxwell was his main squeeze. Yeah. Yeah, that was his main squeeze. He took with her for years. He was always with her. Marilyn Maxwell. But not all the stars. He got to an age where the end marker wasn't going to fuck him. Yeah. Or Angelo. So, you're saying...

Yeah, I was just going to say... Or Angelion. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star.

With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Now, you told a great story

about the great director, John Ford. Well, that's another story, because that was about The Blacklist. Because there's a movie, Trumbo, which is worth seeing. But the famous thing was that during The Blacklist in Hollywood, well, during the times of the House Un-American Activities Committee in the late 40s,

there was a very famous meeting at the Director's Guild because at that time you were going through all this blacklist stuff, and they wanted people, because of the Cold War and everything, Cecil B. DeMille, the very conservative, very right-wing guy, wanted everybody to sign a loyalty oath. A loyalty oath. And Frank Mankiewicz, or Joseph Mankiewicz, decided, no, no, we shouldn't have to do this. So there was these two camps.

So they had this very famous meeting. Attendance was mandatory, so it was packed. And Cecil B. DeMille says, who doesn't want to write? There was a petition against him. He goes, whose name is on this petition? Let's look at the names. Fred Zinnemann, William Weiler, Billy Wilder. And he goes to everyone with these Yiddish accents.

And he's making his point real strong. And he goes, this is the people who don't sign the loyalty oath. And so I say we bring it to a vote. Hand goes up in the back. And we recognize the man in the back. The little guy stands up goes my name is john jack ford i make westerns that's how he induced himself and he says cb you know more about making movies than anybody here in this room you know more about putting asses in seats than anybody

else in this room but i don't like what i'm hearing from you say b and i think we go with mankiewicz now it makes this so anyone it over, what makes it so strange is that John Ford was about as conservative, right wing as you can get, and Ward Bond, who's the biggest prick that ever lived, one of the great anti-Semites of all time, he actually hit, I'll tell you a story about him slugging Martin Lando, he told me. Oh, wow. New York Jew actor came out to do Wagon Train. So the New York Jew actor, he said, you know, at one time he had a swing.

He's supposed to miss him. And he cold cocks him. And he went, Lando, and the director goes, oh, he goes, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And I thought I missed you. And so the director said, oh, that's fine. Can we do one more? And Lando said, fuck you.

I'm not doing one more. But he said, you know, Ward Bond. So Ward Bond and Victor McLaglin were huge right-wingers, as was John Ford. But the difference between Ford and John Wayne was that they were right-wingers, but they weren't zealots like Bond and them. Wayne, in his biography, is a total conservative, but he got along great with Katharine Hepburn. He got along great with Geraldine Page. He liked it if you had a position, if you stood up for it.

He respected that. Even in the movie Trumbo now, if you stood up for it. He respected that. Even in the movie Trumbo now, where he's really right wing, Edward G. Robinson comes and does his thing, and he tells Hedda Hopper, who's fucking crazy, that I just made a deal with the guy. She goes, well, we're not going to let him do it. He goes, I just made a deal with the guy. And Edward G. Robinson, actually, who was on the blacklist slash pinklist,

doesn't work for a while. Big lefty. Right, and what gets him off of it is Cecil B. DeMille, because Cecil B. DeMille has to cast him as Dathan the Jew in the Ten Commandments, whereas your mom says, now, you know, that's, everybody said, well, if CB is hiring him, he's obviously okay. You know, so that got him off of,

that got him off the blacklist, really, was Cecil B. DeMille on the Ten Commandments. And with the blacklist, it was still... And then Jen Spader comes along. It was still... World War II was still considered, like, by a lot of people, the Jews' war.

Yeah, the Jewish war. And a lot of people lost their families, and so they still, in spite of everything else, still considered the Jewish war. And a lot of people had lost their families. And so they still, in spite of everything else, still considered it the Jewish War. You know, Billy Wilder told a great story about him doing, when he directed Spirit of St. Louis. Not one of his better movies. No. And he had to direct, you know, it was a story of Lindbergh. And Lindbergh is this huge anti-Semite.

And, you know, big Nazi lover. And so Wilder said, I'll direct the picture anyway. But he had a, he said But Lindbergh was completely cold. He had a scene that he wanted to do. He talked about Wilder that there was going to be the night before the flight. He's in the bar and he sees a girl with long blonde hair. And, you know, he sees her and they talk that night. And whatever happens the next morning, he wakes up and he says he's getting ready to get get dressed and he looks back on the bed and on the pillow there's a long blonde hair he wanted

to have one long blonde hair on the pillow and glenberg said no way no way he wouldn't allow anything like that he just wasn't going to allow that kind of stuff um i told you the funny story that wilder had oh yes he was talking about the i saw wilder talk one time and he talked about the blacklist and the unfriendly ten. And he said, but the thing to remember here is only two of them were talented. The other eight were just unfriendly. That's a great line. We had Ed Asner on the show, remember?

And he told us about Ward Bond. Do you remember this? He told us about Ward Bond. I can't remember the name of the actress. I'll go back and dig it out for you. A woman, an actress who had a promising career, a New York actress, and Ward Bond really did damage to her career. It wasn't Lee Remick. It wasn't a name we knew.

But I'll dig it out. Ward Bond was the biggest prick of them all. And Ward Bond was one of those people who was turning everybody in as a communist. Yeah, yeah. And you had to get past Ward Bond. Yeah. And Wayne and Ford said, you know, fuck Ward Bond. That was her best friend. And you had to get past Ward Bond. Yeah. And Wayne and Ford said, you know, fuck Ward Bond.

You know, that was her best friend. Yeah. And it was fuck Ward Bond. You know, they were, it was a bad time, period. I mean, what are you going to do? I had a friend, interesting story.

I had a friend who was an agent and he represented two sons of the period. He represented the son of a writer who was blacklisted. And in fact, it was Nick Kazan and Trumbo's kid. So one was the son of a writer who was blacklisted. And he, in fact, it was Nick Kazan and Trumbo's kid. So one was a son of a blacklisted writer and the other was a son of a

writer who was blacklisted. And each one hated the father for what they did. It's interesting. Two handed play. I always thought, I always thought that was because each one, one said, why did you destroy the family to help people that,

you know, to hide people who were already outed and everything else? And the other one said, how could you turn people in? So each one – that's a tough one. That's a horrible situation right there. And I remember somebody one time asked Paul Newman, who was a major liberal. They said to him – He came later.

Yeah. But they said to him like about later but they said to him maybe it was Ilya Kazan they were asking him about or something and Paul Newman said it's very easy now to say what you would have done back then

I would have ratted you out me too you would have been so fast gone you were the first one. And then I mentioned Gilbert Gottfried. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lee J. Cobb. Who else?

Michael Moore. Did I mention Gilbert Gottfried? Tom and Gore. Did I mention Gilbert Gottfried? Paul Robeson, Gilbert Gottfried. I like your Orson Welles line about Ford, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a true story.

Three best directors. John Ford, John Ford, John Ford. You want to talk, before we get you out of here, because it's 120 degrees, you want to talk about A&C, you want to talk about Cobb, Abbott and Costello, you want to talk about baseball movies, about...

Oh, well, you worked with Paul Newman. And you worked with Paul Newman. Yeah, well, I didn't really work with him. I rehearsed with him, and I actually had dinner at his house. Paul was a really nice guy. Now, Paul was one of these method guys. But here's the thing about Paul. He told the worst jokes in the world. The absolute worst jokes in the world.

He was like a frat boy when it came to pranks. His idea of a prank was, you know, it's like he loved practical jokes, but his idea of practical jokes was like, let's throw a ton of manure in somebody's car. That's his idea. You know, it's a frat boy type of shit. So that's what he did. But this was his favorite joke. I remember him telling this joke.

Because I talked about it. I once did a thing with Redford, and I said, boy, he told bad jokes. And he goes, boy, did he ever. And I said, this was Paul Newman's favorite joke. Three people are talking about the greatest invention of all time. And the first one says, well, that would have to be the telegraph because you can do the telephone because you can reach people all around the world and everything. And the guy goes, no, no, no. He goes, what about you?

He goes, no, that would have to be the airplane because then you can fly around the world and go anywhere. The other one goes, no, no, no, no, no. The third one goes, no, that would have to be the thermos. And he goes, the thermos? He goes, yeah, no, no, no, no. The third one goes, no, that would have to be the thermos. And he goes, the thermos? He goes, yeah, it's a thermos. And he says, because it keeps things hot and it keeps things cold. And he said, he goes, well, what's crazy about that? And the guy says, but how do it know?

And that was Paul Newman's favorite joke. Oh, jeez. Okay, so this gives you an idea. Good guy, though. I mean, he would drive Ron Shelton crazy because he was one of these method actors who would take something on the page and then try 50 different ways to try something else and eventually come back to what's on the page. But it drove Ron crazy. Now, to his credit, he turned down, it was a movie called Blaze, which was about Blaze

Starr, the stripper. It's a good movie. I like that movie. And he turned down, it was going to be cast by an actress named Nancy Travis. And Paul Newman rejected her because he had casting approval. So he turns her down and they wind up going with this girl who auditions for a tape in Canada, Lolita Davidovich, who plays the part, eventually to this day, is Ron's wife. So it's like, So because of Paul Newman, indirectly, he's responsible. I also should mention that Haskell Wexler,

who died yesterday, the day before, and I loved working with Ron, hated him. And he could be difficult, but I loved him. Medium cool? Yeah, well, Haskell did, you know, in the heat of the night, he did In Cold Blood. He was a great cinematographer, just great. But that was somebody else in the movie.

And De Niro? What was it like working with him? It was great. You didn't expect... He hadn't done much comedy yet. So the only time I had seen him do comedy was in Brazil. And he was funny in Brazil. And he did these big takes. And when I did it,

I realized he knows how to mug really well. In fact, when I told Billy Crystal, when he knows how to mug really well. In fact, when I told Billy Crystal when he was doing Analyze This, I said, get ready for some really good mugging. He goes, I was surprised how much he mugged, but how good it was. Yeah. And so, listen, that movie, I was going to work every day. It was Tribeca's first film.

Mistress, we should remind our listeners. And I play this would-be filmmaker, independent filmmaker, and Martin Landau plays this down-on-his-luck producer. And he's got a script, and he's going to raise the money. But each of the guys that want to put up the money want their mistress to play the lead in the movie. And it's a pretty damn good movie. In fact, the one I get stopped from by film students, Alexander Payne and all film students, they want to talk about Mistress because that's their lives. film students, Alexander Payne and all film students, they want to talk about Mistress because that's their lives.

Unfortunately, we came out about a month after The Player, which also dealt with Hollywood, and which I think is, well, it's just my own thing. It is what it is, but it's such an overrated movie. It has this murder mystery. I mean, you really believe Lyle Lovett and Swoopy Goldberg are cops? Then we flee. You know, it's like, I mean, it's good because of the frou-frou in the opening shot,

which is kind of cool, but it's not a very good movie. And actors played themselves, so it had this frou-frou stuff. Oh, yeah. But the movie itself isn't that good. But in Mistress, I'm working every day.

It's Tribeca's first film. De Niro's got to approve me, and I'm working every day with Martin Landau, Danny Aiello, who was terrific in the movie he got scenes that got cut out that people didn't see

that I saw that were just brilliant I love his tantrum at the end well he had a whole he had a monologue that got cut that was brilliant Eli Wallach

Christopher Walken is in the movie who am I leaving out and then the women Jean Smart Cheryl Lee Ralph a girl named what was her name?

I can't think of her name. But I mean, just every day. The kid who plays the young writer is fun. Jace Alexander. Jace, who became a TV director. It's a dark movie. It's very dark. Oh, and Laurie Metcalf plays my wife.

Laurie Metcalf. And I mean, every day I'm going to work with a great actor. And Barry Primus, who wrote and directed. People think I wrote and directed it. I didn't. It's Barry Primus, and it's basically his life. And that's the best thing I ever did from an acting point of view,

without a doubt, in my opinion. Does he have to kill himself? Can't he just leave town? Yeah, I mean... He's Spielberg's nephew or somebody like that. He's studying with the same teacher as Spielberg. He's studying with the same teacher, that's what it is. That's a fun movie like that. He studied with the same teacher as Spielberg. He studied with the same teacher.

That's what it was. That's a fun movie, mistress. Yeah, yeah. That's one I can actually watch a little bit of. I don't like to watch most movies. Cobb is one I can watch, but only for, I think back to other things. Cobb is a very dark movie. Did Ty Cobb really beat the hell out of a guy who had no hands?

Absolutely. Where he had two fingers? Absolutely. He was quadriplegic. Quadriplegic. Had no arms and had legs. And by the way, whenever I hear about this Hall of Fame crap, Ty Cobb is a racist, a bigot, a Klansman, killed a man,

beat up a man with no arms and no legs, threw games for money, and he's the first person they put in the Hall of Fame. He's the first person. So when I hear this steroid stuff, it's like, please. Right, right. Please. What is this you're talking about? of Fame. He's the first person. So when I hear this steroid, something's like, please! Please! What is this you're talking about? He's the first guy in the Hall of Fame.

Ty Cobb, the worst human being that ever lived. Wife beater, everything. And good trivia about Cobb is the real Crash Davis shows up. He has a small... No, that's at Bull Durham. No, the guy that Crash Davis was based on shows up. The actual Crash Davis shows up in Cobb. The story would happen with Bull Durham. No, the guy that Crash Davis was based on shows up in Tom. Oh, it was Crash Davis.

The actual Crash Davis shows up in Tom. Well, the story, what happened with Bull Durham is that Ron got this name out of nowhere. He just looked up in a book, you know, Crash Davis. Good story. And so he named him Crash Davis. You know, think of the guy's dead 100 years. Well, first day of the scene

is the scene with Susan Sarandon and Kevin Costner. And they go, Ron, there's somebody here who wants to see you who's he goes says he's crash davis and this guy showed up very you know in shape guy about you know maybe about 60 at the time and he says i had no idea there was a real crash davis he goes he goes i you know we're going to use your name and stuff like this any problem i just want to get one question do i get the the girl? And Ron said, yes, you do, and that's her right there. There's another church right there. That's a true story. By the way,

you know who I talked about? Were you a fan of Ealing Studio comedies? Yeah, well, Lavender Hill Mob and all that stuff. Yeah, sure. I was talking with

Ian McKellen recently because I'm a huge fan of Alistair Simm. Oh, yeah. Who is a definitive Scrooge. Yes. He was out of doubt. He is the definitive Scrooge. I like Mr. McGoo.

But he's also – did you ever see The Ruling Class with Peter O'Toole? Oh, yeah. Well, Alistair Simm is the priest there. Yeah. Well, what's funny is that – so when we were shooting Batman, we shot at Pinewood Studios. There would be these huge pictures of all their movies up there, you know, and there was Sim. And I would talk to Jack. Jack would go, Nicholson would go, Sim.

So years later, a couple of years ago, they had that movie Nine came out with Daniel Day-Lewis. And for some reason, I'm at Daniel Day-Lewis' table. What am I going to talk to this guy about? What am I going to talk? But then I remembered that his uncle or father ran Ealing Studios. He was like the president or something like that. And so I said, were you a fan of Alistair Sim? And he lit up.

And so suddenly, we had common ground. We talked about Ealing Studios. That's great. Now, you know what's interesting is they went to, you talk about the Lady Killers, right? Yeah. Well, Lavender Hill Mob and the Lady Killers. The Lady Killers, they went to Alistair Sim to play the lead, and he passed on it. So Alec Guinness takes the part, but who does he look like in makeup?

It's Alistair Sim. He puts the buck teeth in there, and it's Alistair Sim. And McKellen was telling me he directed Sim twice. And he said, Sim only liked to be around young people. He believed that you should not have the vote

after the age of 30. He said he always wanted to be around young people all the time. He was like, he was really dotty, you know, out there. But he said,

but he had such, he was such a character. I mean, because I love those movies. The Lavender Hill Mob. Oh yeah, they're all good. What's the one that went?

Whiskey Delore. Man in the White Suit. Man in the White Suit is one. They're all good. Heavens Above where that went? Whiskey Delore. Man in the White Suit. Man in the White Suit is one. Heavens Above where they shoot sellers up into space and stuff like that. I heard you mention The Loved One. Who mentioned The Loved One? Oh, we talked about it on a previous

show. Yeah, it's a film I wanted to love and it's so uneven. It's uneven. It's pretty dark but it's very funny. You can't beat that cast. It's very funny. It's so dark. We're going to have to invite Robert Morris on the show. I mean, what's his... Robert Morris and Winters.

Yeah. And Steiger. And Steiger. Steiger's Mr. Joy Boy. Yes. Mr. Joy Boy. I once played cards with Steiger. Oh.

I played cards with Steiger. He was part of this game I was part of, which I still play to this day. And talking about Lee Marvin. Yeah. And so the night before, I played cards with Steiger. I'm sitting next to Steiger. Oh, I think I know. The night before, there was a special on Lee Marvin. Yeah. And so the night before, I played cards with Steigman. I'm sitting next to Steigman. Oh, I think I know. The night before, there was a special on Lee Marvin.

So I'm sitting next to Rod. I go, Rod, did you know Lee Marvin? He goes, no. But he beat me out for the Oscar one year. And I go, Capaloo, great movie. He goes, did you think that performance was better than mine in the pawnbroker? I said, he got more laughs. So I could see him really get pissed off, but I had an ace in my hole.

I go, besides, you won the next year, didn't you? And he goes, yeah, yeah. We won for the heat of the night. The heat of the night was the next year. Yeah, yeah. So, but Steiger was, he was a trip. I mean, he was Steiger. Did you ever meet him, Gilbert? I know you're such a fan.

Oh, I did meet him once. I think it was backstage at Politically Incorrect. And he told me that story, like, in the cab scene and on the waterfront. Oh, yeah, he's pissed. That, you know, you're supposed to, like, sit behind the camera and read your lines. Off camera when you're doing your side. Yeah. You know, you shoot the master shot, the two-shot, in the only cab in the world that ever had Venetian blinds.

And, I mean, did you ever see a cab in the history of the world that had Venetian blinds, only on the waterfront? So, and you do the two-shot, and they covered Marlon's side, and of course Steiger's reading the off-camera. When it comes time to shoot the other side, Brando takes off, right? Yeah, and Steiger looks at me in that intense way where his eyes open up, and he goes, I didn't speak to him for 20 years after that. I love your impression. Did you ever see him on Bob Costas' later show? Oh, yeah.

When he loses it on the show and he's talking about depression, he goes, let me tell you something about depression. Let me tell you something. When you have depression, you lose it in many ways. You lose it in many ways. I'm out of the boat. I'm Al Capone. I'm Al Capone. I got that on VHS somewhere.

I remember they asked George Segal, who worked with him on No Way to Treat a Lady. Good movie. Yes. Underrated movie. We talked about that on the show. Very funny movie. Fun movie. Who wrote it?

William Goldman. William Goldman. Fun movie. Yes. But I remember when they asked George Segal, George Segal goes, He plays in the card game too. Oh, I'll have to ask you about him.

George Segal, they said, what was it like working with Steiger? And he goes, well, Steiger was a force of nature. That's true. He's like O'Toole. That's true. Yeah. He's like O'Toole. He's in one movie and everybody else is in somebody else.

James Coburn told me the same thing about working with Steiger. Yeah. And I love James Coburn. We shot, the last thing he did was Arliss. I had, for years I had known Jimmy. And I wanted him because he was a big pothead. So we got along very well. So.

Oh, wait, wait, wait. I got to tell you a Martin Landau story, pothead. Great story about Steve McQueen. So Jimmy and I, so had Jim play the fictionalized version of DiMaggio. Yeah, I forgot what his name was. What the hell was his name? It wasn't the Splendid Splinter. I forgot.

I can't think of it. But it was a fictionalized version, but he was DiMaggio. It was a great, dark, good episode. But he had talked about Steiger, too. But the question was about the pothead. So Landau, Marty, and I were talking about it. He was talking about great potheads of the times. And he said,

he and McQueen, they're doing Nevada Smith. Remember the movie Nevada Smith? Oh, yes, yes, sure. Well, he says, we're doing this movie and we're done for the day. And so we're in McQueen's dress, you know, his trailer, and we're just getting high. and so we're in McQueen's trailer and we're just getting high and this is back in the 60s so even though

you still get a lot of trouble they left you alone but you didn't do this on the street there's still laws and everything and he says so we're done for the day

and we're higher than a kite and so I'm leaving and Bill is a smoker coming out and I'm walking back and suddenly the director I I see Henry Hathaway, who was one of these old time true grit, old timey, tough motherfucker directors, took no shit. Just walking towards us. And I go, Hank, something. Marty goes, yeah, we got, we finished early.

I want to do this two page scene, just a bunch of dialogue scene with Steve today. By the end of the day, we could do just a two-hander. I'm sitting there. And he goes, Marty goes, let me tell him. So he goes and he goes, you're not going to, he opened up the billows of smoke and he says, you're not going to believe this. Hathaway

wants to shoot this two-page scene. And he goes, okay. And McQueen took the page like this and he saw his name and he crossed out every piece of dialogue he had like this. So the guy sat down, and the guy would say, I hear you've been looking at me, looking for me. And McQueen would just smile. His eyes are redder than shit. And he goes, just kind of smiles and nods his head.

And the guy would say, well, I'm here. And he said, the whole scene goes, you got something to say to me? And McQueen's just smiling away, saying nothing. He said, fuck if the scene doesn't work. He says, because that's movies. You show tight shots. You show reactions. He said, but he goes, he cut out every word of dialogue in the scene.

Wow. Yeah, because he wasn't going to remember it anyway. So he did that whole thing that way. Landau's so great in Mistress, too. Landau's great. Jack Roth. So he did that whole thing that way. Landau's so great in Mistress, too.

Landau's great. Jack Roth. Marty had that run where he had done the Woody Allen movie, Crimes and Misdemeanors. Great in that. You know, I put that in the top five Woody Allen movies by far. Oh, yes. Wonderful. That's the one.

I asked you about movies. If it's on, I'll go right into that one. He also told me how they fired Stephen Hill in the movie, too, Landau. Jerry Arbach wasn't his brother to begin with. Yeah. It was Stephen Hill. And he and Woody didn't get along, so he was fired and Jerry Arbuck gave in. He had that.

Then he did another one. He did Tucker. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then he had Mistress. And then he has Ed Wood. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so he has all... And he was talking... He was asking me about Tim, because I had done Batman with Tim, and so he's about to work with Tim in, with Ed Wood, and, you know, that's, he's the movie. Oh, yeah. He's the movie in Ed Wood. He's wonderful.

Yeah. Showbiz is funny, isn't it? One day you're in the Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island, and the next day you're winning the Oscar. It is amazing. You know, some people, I mean, I'm a member of the Oscars, so I can go off on that. And you've written two Oscar shows. Go off on the Oscars.

Well, here's the thing about, you know what's funny? As a member of the Academy, they tell you very, it's hysterical here, do not divulge who you voted for. Yeah. Do not divulge.

Now, you've got every person in Hollywood is a political activist, you know, talking about Obama or this one. You can talk about who you vote for president, but God forbid, you should mention that's who you voted for the Oscar for. So I have a whole thing.

I love the Oscars. I mean, it's fun. But I have a whole take on who I vote for. And you have to remember that this is not some benevolent organization. I don't mean the Academy. The Academy not some benevolent organization. I mean, I don't mean the Academy. The Academy is a benevolent organization.

But the Oscar Awards, I remember how it started. It started in like the 1926, 27. And it was a dinner that the Academy, which were the five studios, put together to invite everybody in to try to bust the unions, saying, you don't have to unionize. We will take care of you. You don't need a writer's guild. You don't need a director's guild. You don't need the actor's guild. We will take care of you. And at the end of the night, the last 15 minutes, they gave out these medals, as he said.

So anyway, so Louis V. Mayer said, my God, if you give out medals, they'll show up for anything. So this did not start by some great artistic achievement. It started out because they wanted to bust the unions. But as Tommy Lee Jones, when we were doing Cobb, he was up that year and he had lost the year before for JFK,

and then he was up this year for the Fugitive, and that was a cranky week because he's a very competitive guy. And the whole talk around when we were doing Cobb, they go, boy, if Tommy doesn't week, he's going to be suicidal. I said, fuck that. If Tommy doesn't week, he's going to be homicidal. But we talked fuck that. If Tommy doesn't week, he's going to be homicidal. You know, so, but we talked about that. Those statues, this little thing, is worth

a lot of money. These are worth money. A lot of money. And don't think, because if they weren't, you don't really think that they would, the studios would be spending tens of millions of dollars on all these campaigns, or tens of millions of dollars on lunches and dinners that I go to

and part of this, these are worth because they're going to get money out of this thing. You say best picture, that's worth another $40, $50 million. You get a best, I have a friend who runs one of the studios, says if I can get a best actor nomination, that's $10 million more for my studio. If I can get this, so these things are worth money. My dad, who was not in the business, used to say, I don't understand. How can somebody be the best actor one year and not the best actor the next year? Did he forget how to act?

My dad would say, and he goes, I'll tell you who's the best. Let everybody play the same part. And I'll tell you who the best actor is. And I would say, Dad, not even then. You could have different interpretations of the same thing. So to think that someone is the best is ludicrous. These are all good actors and everything. But here's my criteria on voting.

Because it is. And by the way, you don't get there unless you're good. So at the very least, you gave a good performance. You're not going to say best. You gave an exemplary performance. So here's how I vote. Number one, who's my friend? That's number one.

First and foremost. And this is my reason for that. And here's the reason for that. And here's the reason for that. Because these things are worth money, I want my friends to have security with their families. You get an Oscar nomination, that means you will have hospitalization the rest of your life. Your family will have hospitalization the rest of its life. That is also, okay, also, you've paid for it probably. If you're a friend of mine, you've probably paid your dues.

So who's my friend is first and foremost. I want my friends to do better. I don't care about, you can't tell me this performance is better than that performance. You can't do it. You just can't. So I want my friends to do well. That's A. B, hard, fast rule, no kids.

No kids. There is no, under no circumstance, zero tolerance, no kids. None. Zero. I give a fuck if a 12-year-old kid from Australia gets an Oscar. Are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? You're talking about people who have worked their whole lives,

studied what the cattle calls their whole life, got rejected their whole life, and you're giving it to a fucking kid like that six-year-old I sat next to last year at a dinner from that movie in the swamp. What was that movie? The Beast of the Southern Wild. I'm sitting next to a six-year-old kid who's playing on fucking...

And she gets nominated for a fucking Oscar. What's her name? Quahenzabana something Wallace? It's like she's playing and doing fucking Oscar. What's her name? Quahen Zivana something Wallace? It's like she's playing and doing fucking things on a night tour. And you give her the Oscar and she gets fucking nominated

for an Oscar. Are you out of your fucking mind? You know, so no kids. And you can't give me an example where I've ever missed one. If I'm going to miss Jodie Foster, you know what? She'll grow up and become Jodie Foster

and I'll vote for her again. Tatum O'Neill. Right, exactly. Yeah, there's an example. Tatum O'Neill. I mean, no kids, there's an example. Tatum O'Neal. Right. I mean, what about Justin Henry from The Champ or the girl who was in The Goodbye Girl? It's like you're taking away a spot from someone who has paid their dues.

So there's no kids under – there's no way, shape, fucking form that I would ever vote for a kid. Also, I'm not voting for rookies. I'm not voting for anybody first time out. There's no reason to. There is no reason. It's like, let me ask you a kid. Also, I'm not voting for rookies. I'm not voting for anybody first time out. There's no reason to. It's like, let me ask you a question. A guy comes up to bat the first time, hits a home run, you're putting him in the Hall of Fame? No. No. No.

Let me see a couple more at-bats here. Because if that's the case, Sandra Locke would have won an Oscar. Remember when she got... Sandra Locke got an Oscar nomination. There's not too many worse actresses ever than Sandra Locke would have won an Oscar. Remember when she got... Oh, the heart is a lonely hunter. Sandra Locke got an Oscar nomination. There's not too many worse actresses ever than Sandra Locke. Okay? So no rookies.

No fucking rookies. Okay? Nobody wins also for singing a song. You know, it's like, we've had how many people now sing a song and win an Oscar? Jennifer Hudson sang a song. She won an Oscar. That's all she did.

She sang a song. Wait, wait, wait. And here's the way, I'm not done. Wait a song. She won an Oscar. That's all she did. She sang a song. Wait, wait, wait. And here's the way. I'm not done. Wait a minute. Anne Hathaway sang a song. She also shaved her head and lost some weight. She sang a song. She's out of the movie in ten minutes. She sang a song. Now,

I'm not voting for anyone anymore. Then you got the Jennifers that come on. Jennifer Hudson. Jennifer Holliday. Jennifer... Who's the other one? Jennifer... There's another Jennifer. I'm not voting for anyone anymore. Then you got the Jennifers that come along. Jennifer Hudson, Jennifer Holliday, Jennifer, who's the other one? Jennifer, there's another Jennifer. I'm losing here. There's another Jennifer. Jennifer Hudson, Jennifer Holliday. Who's the one who was in A Beautiful Life?

What's her name? Oh, Jennifer Connelly. Jennifer Connelly. What's the same fucking name as this fucking Jennifer shit? Do you know? It's like, come on, pay your fucking, like I can tell you who I'm voting for right now for the Oscars, right? I'll tell you who I voted for. I'll break the tradition, you know, I can tell you who I'm voting for right now for the Oscars, right? I'll tell you who I voted for.

I'll break the tradition, you know, and please forgive me. I'm voting for Lily Tomlin. I mean, did you see the movie Grandma? No. Okay, she's really good in it. I mean, now, you would say, is that an Oscar-winning performance? She's really good in the movie, and she's Lily fucking Tomlin. These are lifetime achievements.

That's how you see them. I was just going to ask that. I totally see them. Because if you win an Oscar, the first line of your obituary is already written. Right. So if that's not a lifetime

achievement award, I don't know what is. It's like this is, I mean, Dr. Hangnor. Fuck, what is this shit? You know, it's like, you know, Dr. Hangnor. The poor guy got murdered.

I mean, it's like, I mean, really, really. Come on, can we have this bleeding hard shit? I mean, it's like, I mean, really? Really? Come on. Can we get all this bleeding hard shit? I mean, come on. Dr. Hangnor. Give me a fucking break. Where do you stand on the gimp rule?

On the what? The gimp. The gimp factor. Again, again, I take that into consideration. But if it's a guy with a track record, a body of work, it's a little bit different

than if it's, you know, a first-time Sandra Locke thing. Who was another one? Who was another one? I mean, but it's like not me. And also, up until last year, we almost had – you had three of the four winners. If Michael Keaton had won, all four would have been over 50, and that has never happened. That has never happened.

There was a run at one point where there wasn't an actress or a best actress winner who was over 35. There was like a 10-year run without one of them. And Judi Dench changed it and Helen Mirren. That's the other thing I try down the line is if I don't have to, no Brits. That's another thing. No Brits. Because, you know, we live in this world. We have this bullshit idea that because somebody speaks with a Brit posh accent,

that they're very – they know how to act. Oh, yeah. That's what the Baftas are for. You know, it's like – again, I have voted for Brits. I will not – some of them are my friends who I vote for. But as a rule, I keep it in America. Okay. But as a rule, I'd keep it in America.

Peter Sellers for being there or Ben Kingsley for... Wait, do I have this right? Nope, hang on. No, it was Peter Sellers for being there or Dustin Hoffman for Kramer vs. Kramer. Peter Sellers. Okay, and then... Yeah, Dustin Hoffman won before, though. He won for Midnight Cowboy. No, he didn't.

Oh, you're right, you're right, you're right. So that was his first one. If that's his first one, I can understand it. Right. Because he's Dustin Hoffman. Yeah. But I'll go another way. I'll say Peter Sellers for Strangelove or Rex Harrison for My Fair Lady.

There you go. There you go. Oh, who are some of the ones that, like Sandra Locke, who you go, who the fuck? How did they win that award? Every year. There's always one. It's every year. But that said, though, the Academy, there's a lot of other stuff that's really good.

I mean, that people don't see. The library that they do work, the exhibitions are great. The screenings are great. They have talks all the time. They do a lot of stuff that people don't see. They know the Oscars and it pays the rent. So I get that. But, you know, the Oscars is like the Hall of Fame. It Oscars and it pays the rent. So I get that, but the Oscars

is like the Hall of Fame. It's not the pearly gates here. So I'm voting for my friends and I'm voting for a woman who works like no fucking kids. I love that. They should have

a juvenile award just as if they always, they should have an award for comedy. Right. They absolutely should have an award because if you look, I guarantee you

over the next week, you're going to see every 10 best lists in the next couple of days. I guarantee you, there'll be maybe two comedies on a 10 best list. Maybe.

And then they're going to come out with their 10 worst lists. Always comedies. And there's going to be seven comedies. Right. Because everybody knows how to do comedy. Yeah, I've heard you speak about this. Everybody knows how to do comedy,

but everybody knows it's much harder. But everybody, but on your 10 best, so why don't you give, you have your best animated films, you have best musicals, best documentaries, why not have comedies? Now, I talked a little bit over with Ron Howard and Harvey Weinstein, and from a marketing point of view, it's much smarter. If I can put best comedy on my, you know, marketing, that's more money.

It's like, and you know why they won't do it? I know why. Because the Golden Globes do it. Absolutely. Because the Golden Globes do it and they would never you know how far be it

to take an idea to me it's like a good idea no matter where it comes from well we've talked about this there's very few comedies that get that kind of respect and recognition

and very few have won best picture very few and are usually romantic comedies I can't think of a balls out comedy that ever did I mean

what would you call the apartment comedy drama yes yeah that's yeah that's Shakespeare in Love Annie Hall balls-out comedy he ever did. What would you call the apartment? Comedy drama. Yes, yeah. Shakespeare in Love. It's just like funny actors or comedians in movies, they want to prove themselves by doing a

dramatic part, because then you'll get respect. Right, exactly. You know, Hanks did all those comedies. It wasn't until he played Forrest Gump and he did Philadelphia that he really got the props there and big. And AIDS is very big. It used to be big. Well, it still is.

Well, it depends. If you're talking Tonys, if you're talking Tonys. Well, then you're. I'm in the theater world now. There's two things that are really having a child. Beating an AIDS-related thing at the Tonys is like beating the Holocaust at the Oscars. There you go. It's like, you know, you're swimming upstream there.

A story to that effect. My partner for Arliss, Mike Tolan, had written and directed a documentary on Hank Aaron about 20 years ago called Chasing the Dream. It got nominated for the documentary Best Picture. However, at the same time, he was getting all the arrangements done. I said, this is going to cost more because you've got to get the car. Your wife's got to get a gown. The tickets are $500. It costs a fortune to go to the Oscars.

And I said, Mike, you realize there's an Anne Frank documentary up against you here. It's like you have no chance. None. You have zero chance. So he goes to the awards. And, of course, Hank Howard's there with him. And Hank, being a ball player and competitive but a nice man, goes, you know, Mike, I saw that Anne Frank documentary. That story's been told before.

Unbelievable. How do you argue with that? How do you argue with that? Oh, God. We should let this man get on with his life. And it's 112 degrees in here. It is hot in here. And, Joe, you want to say the name of your podcast?

Oh, yes. Tell us about your podcast. Oh, yeah. I have two podcasts, actually. Well, two shows. One is on Monday nights on Sirius XM Radio, Fantasy Sports. That's Off the Wall. Oh, yes.

I told you. I've got to have a name with the walnuts, Off the Wall. That's Off the Wall. It's on Monday nights at 10 p.m. Eastern. And that's a fantasy sports show, mostly baseball. I'm really into fantasy baseball. And I'm into baseball, period. We'll talk about sports films next time.

Another time. And then on podcast, I'm on CBS Digital, play.it. And the show is Ipso Facto with Robert Wall. Right, which is a terrific show. And a lot of versatility in your bookings. Frank Luntz, Jean Larroquette. Yeah, it was fun.

You run the gamut. Luntz, it's amazing. Don was. I'm friendly with these, you know, I'm not political much. My dad was a Republican. My mom was a Democrat.

I think both sides are totally full of shit. You know, I just do. But I understand both points of view. I totally get it. So Luntz, I've become friendly

with two conservatives, Frank Luntz and George Will. I'm pretty good friends with because of baseball. I'm a big baseball fan of both Frank and George, especially. George wrote one of the best baseball books ever, Men at Work, which is a great baseball book. And, you know, so those

two guys, and I'm friendly with both of them. Frank's got one of the great, in his house, one of the great historical memorabilia collections. You'll have to come to Gilbert's house. He has a Lon Chaney junior life mask. Did you ever know the reason why, I heard a story, why Karloff didn't play the monster in Abedin Costello? Well, I know he just felt he was through with all of it. Had to be money.

Yeah, what? Had to be money. Yeah, maybe. You don't think they didn't hit the all of it. Had to be money. Yeah, what? Had to be money. Yeah, maybe. You don't think they didn't hit the number? I'm guessing it's money. Because he did Abedin, Costello, Me, Jekyll, and Hyde. Another pretty good movie, by the way. Yeah.

That is a pretty good movie. I like that one. That one's okay. When he turns up the mouse, that's kind of funny. Yeah. Glenn Strange was serviceable, but he wasn't Karloff. No, no. He was fine.

But I got to tell you, that's a terrific... You know why that movie's terrific? The danger's real. They didn't play the danger jokey. They didn't make the monsters into clowns. Right, they didn't. No, he's Dracula. And it's really good.

Who directed that one? Is it Charles Barton? Charles Barton. Charles Barton. Yes, yes. He's no Jules White. He's no Earl C. Kenton. How many of those do you think Jules White, how many of those things did he do?

Jules White. Oh, my God. You've got to believe he had to do. This poor guy was dying for a feature. I know, banging him out. I remember hearing that one time Curly Joe Derrida, who was the last Curly, was hanging out with Emil Zitka, who was like this character actor in all of the Stooges movies. And, you know, I'm not going to pronounce your man and wife. You know, he had like a German.

And they were hanging out together. And their interviewer said both Curly Joe Derrida and Emil Z Sitka agreed that Jules White was a schmuck. These two guys. By the way, you know who else I heard was a big anti-Semite? I heard it at the – Henry Ford. Well, yeah. Andy Devine.

Yeah, I've heard that too. Andy Devine. Didn't that break your heart though? Yes. Hey, Wild Bill, wait for me. Jingles. Jingles. I always liked Andy Devine. According to – Man who heart, though? Yes. Hey, Wild Bill, wait for me. Jingles. I always liked Andy Devine. According to...

Man who shot Liberty Valance. That's right. According to Drew Friedman, Andy Devine and Clark Gable used to fuck each other. Oh, give me a... Yeah! Give me a fucking break.

I mean, no. Let's take the premise, which I don't buy for a second, because Clark Gable fucked everyone, that Clark Gable was gay. If he was gay, if he was gay, do you think out of all the people there, he's got Montgomery Clift, he's got James Dean, he's got Farley Granger,

he's going to go, Jingles is the one I want to fuck. I'm going to fuck Jingles. Well, Clark Gable. Clark Gable was attracted to... Clark! Wait for me! Clark Gable was attracted to a sense

of humor. You might get him to buy Randolph Scott. Thai power I can buy. Thai power I can buy. Ty Power I can buy. Tony Curtis would say, Ty Power I could buy. Ty Power I'd understand, but not fucking Andy Devine. See, what pisses me off is you're on first name basis and friends with all these legendary stars.

I never met Ty Power. I meet actors or directors for once, and it's uncomfortable, and then I can never watch their movies. We've been through that. Harrison Ford, Jeff Bridges. What happened to Harrison Ford? Well, it wasn't his fault. He was nice. Welcome to part two with Robert Woolf and someone

says Gilbert and I turn around it's Harrison Ford and he goes I'm a big fan I loved you in the aristocrats and you know rather than saying what I should have said thank you

I'm a big fan of yours here he's the biggest star in the planet and I should have said. Thank you. Move on. Thank you. I'm a big fan of yours. Here is the biggest star on the planet. And I could have said that means a lot to me. I'm a big fan of yours. I go, I figure I got to be funny.

Yeah, I did. And it's like, you know, 90% of my life is a bad Gilbert Gottfried imitation. So I shake his hand and I go, oh, thank you. And your name is?

Did he buy it? Did he get it? Either way, I'm sure he thought I was a fucking asshole. Another big pothead. I've heard that. Huge pothead. I knew a woman. I knew this woman. Huge, huge, huge. It's like with Tommy Lee Jones and I would get together. They did The Fugitive. I don't think anybody was straight for two seconds. I knew this woman huge huge huge it's like with Tommy Lee Jones and I would get together they did the fugitive I don't think anybody was straight for two seconds

I knew this woman who owned a restaurant on the Upper East Side and she said oh you know Harrison Ford loves my restaurant he comes in all the time and her son was there

and she goes he's a pothead he comes in when he time. And her son was there, and she goes, he's a pothead. He comes in when he has the munchies. Yeah. You could have said that to him. Yeah. Instead of what you chose. I remember being, we talked about Jim Coburn. He used to have these great parties at his house.

Me and Bill Moore and Jim would have a good time. It was great. And who was the other guy you pissed off? Who was the other one? Oh, Jeff Bridges. Jeff Bridges. What was that about? I just...

The dude? The dude. Yeah. I had a photo that I took as a kid of Lloyd Bridges in Central Park. And I was waiting and waiting. And then finally, I barged into his dressing room. And he was nice. He was courteous.

Was he fucking Andy Devine? Gabby Hayes. You walked in and there he is. He's fucking Andy. Although he was getting... Ned Beatty. Another anti-Semite. Ned Beatty's an anti-Semite?

Oh, well. We were going to ask him to do the show. There goes that. Big story. Big story. What? Tell. Big story. Big story. What? Tell me. Charles Durning, who was as great a human being as ever lived.

Yeah. Because I'd heard the story about Ned Beatty. And this went around. Because he didn't work for a while. And I heard the story. And I said, Charlie, did you ever hear the story? And he goes, I was there. Now, Charlie Durning, you have to remember, was in the first wave at D-Day.

And he helped open the camps. So Charles Durning had no tolerance for any kind of discrimination or any type of stuff like that. And he said, I was there when Durning – when Batey went off and said, you tell those Jews – he went off on the Jews saying – he was doing a movie. He said, you tell the Jews back there they can go fuck themselves. And he went off on it so much. He goes, I was there for that. Now, again, Batey denies it. So we give him the benefit of, well, you can give him the benefit of the doubt.

But you know what's something he said interesting, though? I watched him, I watched him, I'll tell you a great story, though, about him. He said something, he said something really interesting. I watched him on Inside the Actor's Studio one time, and he was talking about network. Yes. And, you know, he replaced an actor, he replaced the actor on network. They fired the guy who originally was playing that part. What was his name?

Mr. Jensen. Yes. Mr. Jensen. He was the head of the conglomerate. And he said, he goes, so I came in and he goes, here's something to note. But it goes back to me saying no to the movie. He said, I was a day player on network and I got nominated for an Academy Award. He worked one day on network and got nominated for an Academy Award.

He worked one day on network and got nominated for an Academy Award. Wow. No kidding. He said, so that's it. And I go, yeah, I should have learned this a long time ago. But how about that? You have meddled in the primal forces of nature, Mr. B.U. And I heard that Charles Durning, he was a hero. He liberated the concentration camps.

And he wouldn't talk about it. Yeah. He would not say a word. We played cards constantly together. I must have played with Charlie 50 times. And one of the truly, he did Arliss. In fact, I cast the whole show mostly from the card game. Oh, yeah.

Because it was Norby Walters, this ex-sports agent, music agent. He has this dollar card game. It's a dollar game. If you lose every hand, you agent, music agent. He has this dollar card game. It's a dollar game. If you lose every hand, you could lose $100. You could play in this game. That bad. No, but it is. It's everybody like that.

Do you know how to play poker, Gil? No. Half the people out there don't know either. Half the people don't know either. It's more of a bullshit game. You get bullshit. George Siegel plays all the time, and that's where I know George from. I used to cast the whole show from the card game.

By the way, another Oscar pissed me off. How about the fucking guy from Captain Phillips? The guy who was the... Oh, yes. The guy who was... The pirate. What's that? Yeah, the pirate.

It's like, what the fuck are you giving this guy an Academy Award nomination for? It's a stunt nomination. It's like, what the fuck? It's like you're taking a nomination away from an actor to give it to this guy with three teeth? And he's doing this bullshit stuff. Give me a fucking break. And you're going to spend millions of dollars promoting this guy?

What is he going to do? I hear he's the next Tevye on Broadway. He's going to do Tevye. He's doing the tour, the Captain Phelps tour. What the fuck? This is going to go viral, Robert. What the fuck? Oh.

What the fuck? Lang Nor and this guy. Or the kid from The Sixth Sense. It's like another one. What the fuck? Come on. 50 other kids couldn't have said, I see dead people. Come on.

No fucking kids. None of this stunt shit. It's like Bill Parcells. Can a guy win a couple of games before we put him in the Hall of this stunt shit. And have a, you know, it's like Bill Parcells. Can the guy win a couple of games before we put him in the Hall of Fame? Exactly. You know. Next time we'll talk about sports and sports movies. Don't get me started. All right, Gil.

Okay. If Robert wants to hear the end of that Jeff Bridges story, he'll have to tune into another episode. So what happened with Bridges? No, he was I mean, he was very courteous. Did he take a picture of you? Yeah. Well, I kept waiting. Because he came in late.

You were meeting at the Tonight Show also? Yeah. Okay. And he came in late, and then I was waiting outside his dressing room, and everyone kept coming in and talking to him, and Leno was talking to him. And then finally I barged in at the last second, and I said, you know, when I was a kid, I used to go to Central Park with my sister, and he goes, yeah. And that was already an uncomfortable, like you're rushing, get to the point.

And then I showed him the picture. And he was nice, courteous. And he said, but I just remember it as being uncomfortable. So now Harrison Ford and Jeff Bridges I can't watch anymore. Because you feel like there's something there. Yeah, there was something uncomfortable. Neither one was a bad person necessarily, but... Well, the good news is lately they have... So you're not going to go see Star Wars.

What if you get cast in a movie with Jeff Bridges and Harrison Ford? You're not going to watch yourself? If there's money involved. No, really? Yeah. Really? I'm with him.

I'll work with Al Qaeda if there's money involved. Really? Yeah. Really? I'm with you. I'll work with Al-Qaeda if there's money. Really? Which reminds me, which reminds me, we talked about, has anybody heard the new ISIS podcast that's coming on later? No. It's like everybody's got a podcast. ISIS has got one. They got everybody.

Mel ISIS is going to have one. Okay. So, I'm Gilbert Khyfri. Yes, you are. And I'm Andy Devine. Oh!

It's Andy. Bend over so I can fuck in the ass. Okay, Wild Bill. You're not Wild Bill. I guess now I know why you did the misfits. Andy, I want to give you a blowjob. Oh, okay. Andy Devine, who came up with that? Andy Devine.

Andy, I want you to come all over my face. All right. I'm Gilbert Gottfried, once again, in case you forgot. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, at the Legendary Friars Club. Lost 12 pounds. Yeah, no kidding. lost 12 pounds and we've been talking to someone I've known for too long Robert Wall

come back Robert we'll have more fun next time thanks for doing it.