Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 97. Michael McKean

Episode Date: April 4, 2016

Celebrated actor, writer and musician Michael McKean stops by the studio for a wildly entertaining, hour-plus conversation about his days in the sketch troupe The Credibility Gap (with Harry Shearer), his brief stint at "Saturday Night Live," the origin of Lenny and Squiggy and the oddball cinema of Christopher Guest. Also, Norm Macdonald loses his cool, Spinal Tap meets Joe Franklin, Rod Steiger brings back "Il Duce" and Michael and Gilbert compare life masks. PLUS: Zacherle! The genius of Richard Libertini! "Abbott and Costello Go to Mars"! Cannonball Adderley buys the farm! And "The Square, Square World of Dick Conti"! This episode is sponsored by Seeso. Comedy’s experiencing a serious renaissance right now, and Seeso is a comedy streaming service tailor-made for comedy-lovers and nerds, with thousands of hours of the best comedy, 24/7/365. Go to http://Seeso.com and start watching all the comedy you can stream for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Albert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, once again at Nutmeg Post with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Nice.

Yeah. Okay. Our guest this week is a writer, musician, comedian, and one of the most prolific and versatile actors of the last 40 years. Notable movies include Young Doctors in Love, Clue, Earth Girls Are Easy, Coneheads, Best in Show, The Brady Bunch Movie, A Mighty Wind, and one of the most revered comedies of all time, and one of the most revered comedies of all time, This Is Spinal Tap. He's also made his mark in dozens of television shows, including Dream On, The X-Files, Smallville, Family Tree,

and the current sensation Better Call Saul. You want more? He's also a talented songwriter who composed several of Spinal Tap's non-hits, as well as the Oscar-nominated A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow from A Mighty Wind. Please welcome the only man alive who might do a better Vincent Price than I do, our pal Michael McKeon. Gilbert, that's a beautiful intro. Yeah. I can't possibly live up to that. Welcome, Michael.

Thank you, guys. Now, I should start out by confessing something. All right. I have never seen This Is Spinal Tap. Is it true? Yeah. Huh. Blasphemy.

And see, the problem is, I went a certain amount of time without seeing it, and everyone tells me how great it is. So now I know I can't see it because now nothing can live up to that. I know. I know. That's true. Well, then skip it. Yeah. I mean, everybody else likes the show.

Can we talk about anything else? Laverne and Shirley. You caught that. Yeah. Yeah. That I saw. That's more his era, Michael. You know that you weren't overhyped on how good that was. That's more his era, Michael. You know that you aren't overhyped on how good that was.

Now, you and David Lander invented those characters years before. Yeah. Yeah, we met at college in 1965 at what is now Carnegie Mellon. At the time, it was Carnegie Tech. It was before the Mellon money. Once they were sure we were out of there, they started endowing it. But, yeah, we met and we were actors together in acting school and teenagers. And, you know, drugs were consumed.

What can I tell you? But we got to, you know, we just smoked a little pot and we got a little silly. And we created those characters along with many others. And David had a persona he did, which was kind of a, you know, heartless showbiz talk show persona guy. And but we also had these two two guys that were kind of based on guys we went to school with. And we we made people laugh and we thought, well, there's nothing commercial about these guys. But nine years later, Penny had this show. Penny Marshall had this show.

She was a pal. She said, maybe you should hire those guys as writers. We were at the time, David and Harry Shearer and myself were known as the Credibility Gap. And we were a satirical outfit. Did a lot of satire on the news, on the radio and live. And so they hired the three of us to write on the show and uh said maybe we'll work those characters in so we worked ourselves into the first episode and we said boy is this easier than writing and so uh yeah so we stayed

didn't you guys do it at a party at rothman yeah yeah raiders of the show or right you're asked to do it a party rob reiner and penny marshall were married at the time and Gans, the creators of the show? Right. You were asked to do it at a party? Rob Reiner and Penny Marshall were married at the time, and there was a celebratory party because Penny had sold the show. You know, Penny and her brother, Gary Marshall, and Mark Rothman and Lowell Gans, who were writers on Happy Days. They spin these two characters off, Laverne and Shirley, so they got a go-ahead from ABC, but they didn't

have any supporting cast. So they figured, well, hire these guys and let's do it. So we did the characters at a party. We did a piece that we'd never done before or since, and we got some laughs. And they said, okay, good. That's so strange, because that's like the 2,000-year-old man

started at those parties. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. You got to be careful what you do at a party. You might wind up doing it for, well, 40, 50 years now. Now, we get to the part I really want to know. I heard around that time Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams hated each other. No? No?

No, they never did. Cindy did not have a great relationship with the writers. Yeah. They didn't know how to write for her. They knew how to write for Penny because Penny was like kind of a Borscht Belt comic. I mean, she's a wisecracking. You know, her character was easier to write, just shtick. But no one could decide on how to do Cindy, and Cindy didn't quite know what to tell them.

So that was really where the rub was, you know. They never had a serious falling out. You know, the last, my theory personally, is that every show is on the air for one year too long. It's true. You look at the last seasons of almost any show, even a show that's beloved, and it's a very rare one that doesn't have a crap last season. Now, what what was wrong with the last season? Because I noticed that a lot of shows fall apart. Well, Cindy got pregnant. Cindy got married to Bill Hudson. She got pregnant. So there was we're going to have to shoot around Cindy. But Penny also wanted to get started as a director, as a film director.

So she had like seven out of 13 or whatever her deal was. I was out of there because I had a very specially designed clause that Gary Marshall and I hammered out. I said, look, we've been trying to sell this movie Spinal Tap. Maybe you've heard of it, Gil. And if we get a buy on that, then I'm out of here. And Gary said, yeah, okay. You know, thinking, this kid hasn't got a prayer. No, but he's always been a big supporter of mine.

And so I was not there for most of it. So for a lot of that last season, it was David as Squiggy. It was the great Phil Foster as Laverne's dad. Eddie Mecca. Eddie Mecca and Betty Garrett. And neither Laverne nor Shirley were in a ton of those last shows. It just kind of fell apart. They want to keep things rolling so they have a bigger syndication package.

But, you know, a big package isn't the whole deal, as any woman will tell you. Now, I'm sure you do a Gary Marshall imitation. I, you know, everybody does. My Gary Marshall is no better than anyone else. I know just what I think about Gary that he would do if he had bad news for David and I tried to spin the show off, spin our characters off. And we wrote a we wrote a pilot and we submitted it. And Gary had to break the news to us. So what Gary would do if he had bad news, he probably still does it.

If he had bad news for you, he would eat while he was doing it. He would bring like something sad, like a little cup full of Jell-O or something. I just, no, they looked at it. They thought it was really funny. And he's eating while you're doing your heartbreaks. So you can't get mad at the guy. He did that to us twice. Both times we knew something was up when he came into our trailer with food.

We knew that's not good news. Do I have this right, Michael? Was it David that referred to Lenny and Squiggy as Bizarro Fonzie, or was it the Amel Nitrate Twins? Amel Nitrate Twins. That's what David called them, yeah. Because if the plot was getting a little slow, they would lower us from the ceiling like Groucho's duck, you know. Right, right.

Bizarro Fonzie, I don't know, that's pretty good, I've never heard of him. Yo, you didn't hear that before? Now, you've worked with and are friends with Harry Shearer. Yeah. You've worked with and are friends with Harry Shearer. Yeah. Now, Paul Schaefer has said to me more than once, he said, you know, Gilder, Harry Shearer hates you. He just hates you.

Why would he volunteer that? Yeah. So unkind. Totally. Well, look. You can't mention him. Let me put it this way. If Harry Shearer hates you,

don't feel special. Okay? I'm not going to go into this. I mean, he's a very complicated guy and, you know, we met 45 years ago and we worked together

on a lot of different things and, you know, hey were we met 45 years ago and we worked together in a lot of different things. And, you know, hey, I'm not I am not I'm not going to go down that road. But he had a perfectly good reason. Well, I think on my season of Saturday Night Live right after the original cast left, everyone had to come out and introduce themselves in a funny way. Right. And Charlie Rocket says, hi, I'm Charlie Rocket. Everyone had to come out and introduce themselves in a funny way. And Charlie Rocket says, hi, I'm Charlie Rocket. I'm kind of the new Chevy Chase. And then I'm Joe Piscopo.

I'm sort of a new Dan Aykroyd. And my bit was, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm kind of a cross between John Belushi and that guy who did the imitations who nobody remembers. Great. But you didn't write that. You were just doing your line. Yes. But he hates you, Gilbert. Well, look.

You know. By the way, was Harry and Abbott and Costello go to Mars? Yes, he was. Pretty cool. Wow. He was in two features as a kid. Abbott and Costello go to Mars and the robe. Oh, he's in the robe.

That's right. I knew that. He's the little crippled boy in the robe. And he's worked with Jack Benny. Worked with Jack Benny a lot, yeah. He was also the original Eddie Haskell in the pilot of Leave it to Beaver. But he kind of, he was already 15 or something and off to college. He was, you know, very

prodigy. And you met Harry in The Credibility Gap. So if I got the chronology of this right, you went to school with David and then you were... Went to school with David at Carnegie and then I was at NYU for two years which is where I met Chris Gast. And Leopold.

And Leopold. Yeah. Tom Leopold, former podcast guest. That's me. Give him a shout out. Yeah. And my good friend. Funny man.

Yes, indeed. And then I went off to California, and I worked with the Credibility App, and I met Harry there and David and a guy named Richard Beebe, who's no longer with us, but he was a very funny man. I've been listening to Credibility Gap stuff on YouTube. Really? Yeah. You can find it. Oh, yeah. You can find the Carson sketch.

Yeah, that's pretty good. There's a great Johnny Carson sketch. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I had the album on vinyl. It's possible. I think there were two albums. Great gift idea.

Great gift idea. I think I had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was released originally by Warner Brothers, and then we bought the master and put it out combined with another disc of our Rose Parade coverage. Right. And it started, if I have this right, Credibility Gaps, it started as a radio act, and then

eventually you guys started doing live stuff. Actually, yesterday was the 46th anniversary, I happen to know because it was George Harrison's birthday, of the first time we did the act live at Long Beach State. That's cool. There's a little tribute online that you've probably seen of Weird Al, who also did this show. Who talking about, it's on YouTube, talking about how he was influenced by the credibility gap. Oh, I didn't know that. And playing a little selection. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

And I remember you were talking about, and I remember them from TV around that time, was the Ace Trucking Company. Sure. George Memoli, Fred Willard. Right, Billy Saluga, and Mike Mislove. How about that? And sometimes a girl. Do a Billy Saluga invitation. Billy Saluga comes up on this show all the time, Mike. I don't do a Billy Saluga.

Well, you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, but you don't have to call me Johnson. You doesn't have to call me Johnson. You doesn't have to call me Johnson. You know, Bill Saluga is still around. We should call him. We should get him on the show. Well, actually, the credibility gap, the three of us, and two members of the Ace Trucking Company went out together because Mike Mislove and Billy left the act. together because Mike, Mike Mislove and Billy left the act and Fred Willard, uh, and George Memoli, they still had, they were still contracted to do, um, three gigs in the Midwest. So they

hired us and we did Ace Trucking Company pieces and Gap pieces. We did, um, Mr. Kelly's in Chicago. We did the Summerfest in Milwaukee. And we did a dinner theater in Valparaiso, Indiana. Wow. Those three gigs. Wow. And that's where I got to know how strange Fred Willard really is. Oh, yeah. Your first exposure to Fred. Oh, my God. Please.

Please talk. Okay, here's an anecdote. If Fred Willard is checked into a hotel room that is too near the elevator he will go downstairs and try to get another room because the bell when the bell

you know it drives him insane so if they don't if they can't change his room he will take his little tool kit that he travels with and disconnect the bell disconnect the and disconnect the bell,

disconnect the wires to the bell. I love that. And he said that more than once, he's had to disconnect the bell on the floor above. I love that. Because he was just too sensitive. The shorter story is Martin Mull's summation of Fred Willard's mind, which is, Fred doesn't use his turn signal. That's great.

A very sweet guy. Had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice. And he couldn't be more genuine. One of the sweetest men I've ever known. Did I dream this? Why do I remember Patty Deutsch being in the trucking company? Remember Patty Deutsch, Gilbert, with the red hair from the game shows?

Oh, yes. She was always on Match Game. Yeah. Yeah. She was one of two different women who worked with them. But a lot of times it was just the four guys. I barely remember. Yeah.

Now, you worked with and I guess are friends with Paul Benedict. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. He comes my God. Oh, yeah. He comes up on the show, too. Yeah. People remember from best from the Jeffersons. Right. They're very, very British next door neighbor.

Yeah. And here's the story I heard about. Tell him what. Go ahead. That one time, you know, he's a big guy, very tall and like, you know, cartoonish looking. Yeah. And I heard he was doing a play and they said, someone here wants to talk to you. He was in the audience and he figured, oh, he wants an autograph or something.

And the guy said, comes up to him and goes, yeah, hi, I'm a doctor. And I was looking at you on stage and I think you have acromegaly. Yeah. You know this story. Well, no, I don't know this story, but I do know that that is something that he was diagnosed with. Yeah. Or, you know, there was a... Because people with acromegaly, well, we always bring up Rondo Hatton as an extreme. They always have like – they're very tall and everything is exaggerated.

Extensive jaw. Their hands and feet are giant. That may be. I never got the solid answer on that. He was a very funny man. Funny guy. Could you do a Paul Benedict imitation? Well, you wouldn't recognize it, though.

I do know this, that he was very soft-spoken. And I was working with somebody. He goes, yes, he's a very good singer. He can't act for shit, can he? Very gentleman. You know, very sweet gentleman. Yeah. And had you seen

Spinal Tap, Gilbert, you would know that he has a wonderful small role in the picture. I heard, too, that surprised me because he's always

doing that English accent and everything and that he's American. He's from Massachusetts, yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. And great in The Goodbye Girl as the crackpot director. Fabulous in The Goodbye Girl. Really, from Massachusetts, yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. And great in The Goodbye Girl as the crackpot director.

Fabulous in The Goodbye Girl. Really, almost steals the movie. Yeah. Funny man. Now, you're in all of those Christopher Guest movies, except which one are you not in? I'm not in Waiting for Guffman. That one I saw. Yeah.

You've got such good taste you knew instinctively the one to see I think that's sweet no it's a very funny movie it is indeed like what gets me about those movies is you know

they're old comedies, and yet there is something so tragic about all of the people, all the characters in those movies. Yeah. There's an element of, well, bless their heart. They are trying so hard. And it's also – Chris's films or three of them, three out of the four I think anyway, there's this sense of a very small world that these people exist, a small bubble. And they're all kind of vying to be the star in a way. They're all kind of vying to be – to rule that little tiny world. Yeah, like the dog show. Yeah, or that one play that little tiny world. Yeah, like the dog show. Yeah, or that one play.

Yeah, exactly. And even, you know, even A Mighty Wind, which is about the world of folk music, you know, in 2003, that was a pretty small world. Yes. And it was about the survivors. It was all these guys kind of surviving, and there's this internecine competition among them.

Who's top dog and as much as in the dog show. And all those characters are very sadly delusional. Yeah. Or happily delusional. Seriously. Well, that's part of the fun of it. I mean that's a little thread with Chris's work. Yeah.

There's – even people who are kind of hopeless, of hopeless, I think there's an affection for them. Especially Corky in Goffman. Oh, my God. Yeah. As absurd as he is, he's also sort of adorable. Lovable. Yeah, exactly. Very lovable. So you saw that one, huh, Gil? Yeah, that one.

He's actually, he's holding out on you, Michael. He's seen best in show in my opinion. That's all right. It's not a prerequisite. We can have a conversation without you having seen all of my shit. Did you see Young Doctors in Love? Yes. You did. I just saw a shot from that the other day.

I thought, no way was I ever that young. Oh, that's scary. Just blonde. I had so much blonde hair, my God. Yeah, that was not too long after Laverne and Shirley. That was while

it was still going on. Gary Marshall's first directorial, yeah. With Hector Elizondo, who's turned up in every one since. That's right. His good luck charm.

Well, it's his good luck charm and also he's a really good basketball player. Is he? Yeah, so Gary values him for both. I don't know whether he still is, but I mean 30 years ago. I've heard that about Gary Marshall, that all of his cast and the people he chooses play basketball with him. Yeah, and softball.

Happy Days had a very serious, very humorless basketball team, baseball team. They're lovely people, but you know with with certain exceptions they were all really kind of serious jocks and uh henry we weren't we were right next door we were terrible we were they were the stepford cast they just they just hit their marks and said their lines and they were just awesome and we were such a pain in the ass. And I remember the first and last time we spoke. Yes. It wasn't a screening for Spinal Tap. No, it wasn't.

I know that. Yeah. It was at when they still had Politically Incorrect. It's the Bill Marzell show. Yeah. And we were all playing historical. No. I'm still not sure it was a great idea.

No. But it was pretty funny, I thought. I guess it came out well. Yeah. And you were Napoleon. Yeah. And I was Freud. And Rod Steiger was Mussolini.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You guys did politically incorrect with Rod Steiger. With Rod Steiger. Yeah. Sorry to miss that. Well, he was interesting because he was,

and we were kind of looking for jokes and everything, and Rod was like looking to invade Ethiopia. He was a very hard-ass Mussolini. Oh, that's funny. This was not a minor league Mussolini we were seeing. That's funny. Yeah, Steiger wasn't one of those, hey, let's goof around and have some fun.

No, he was hard- goof around and have some fun. No, he was hard. But he was great. And the first thing I told him, I said, I got to tell you, your portrayal of Mr. Joy Boy in The Loved One is a great comic performance. It is. And he didn't do a lot of comedies. He was a wonderful actor, but he didn't do a lot of comedy. And this was like a seriously creepy performance. I'm trying to think of him in another comedy later, like Mars Attacks and stuff like that.

But not much. We like No Way to Treat a Lady, which is sort of a black comedy. He's funny in that. Yeah. He's actually funny in that. But it's, yeah, it's dark. Boy, he comes up a lot on this show, doesn't he? Oh, my God, yeah.

Rod Steiger. Yeah. His widow has apparently just written a book. Oh, my God. Which widow? I think the last. I guess that's the only one that gets to be a widow. Yeah.

Well, his first wife wound up married to Philip Roth. I didn't know that. Yeah, Claire Bloom. That's the name I was trying to remember of his wife. I knew there was one. Claire Bloom. Yeah. Very beautiful English actress.

Yeah. Well, English actress. Yeah. Well, here's the thing about Spinal Tap that Gilbert will relate to. Even though he didn't see the movie. One of our early guests. Did you spell that for me?

Yes. Well, it was spelled differently when it first started, right? It was Spinal Tap. With a Y? Yeah, with a Y. That was one of the things we thought about.

Yeah, when you got the law. Didn't you get a gift recently from Christopher Guest? I took over for Harvey Fierstein in Hairspray 11 years ago. And as an opening night gift, I got a framed picture. I had seen it before, but it was a piece of notebook paper where they were – we were jotting down all these names of the – these prospective names for the band that we were going to do. And this was before it was a movie. It was a sketch on a show called The TV Show. I remember it.

Yeah. Leopold was a writer on that show. He was. He was also very funny in that show. Yeah, and Harry Shearer and Chris. Harry was one of the producers, and Chris was a writer on the show, and Tom and Rob, of course, and a bunch of others. Martin Mull?

Martin Mull was in the show. Yes, he was. And so they were – I was on the phone with them and we were trying to pitch it because I wasn't on the – I was just going to do that one piece. But we were pitching ideas and I was on the phone and I remember that was one of the ones that came up. No one can remember who it was who came up with it. But they were all being jotted down in this picture. So like, you know, in 2004, I got this framed copy of that. Not a copy.

It was the actual thing. And it was all these other, you know, Bloodhammer and all these other, you know, names. Jumbo Prawns. Jumbo Prawns. It could have been This is Jumbo Prawns. This is Jumbo Prawns. Andumbo Prawns. It could have been This is Jumbo Prawns. This is Jumbo Prawns. And tell us about your season of Saturday Night Live. Yeah.

Really? Only if you tell us about yours, Gil. God. I've been trying to make people forget. I did Coneheads, which was, of course, Danny Aykroyd and Tom Davis created those characters. And so they did this movie and I was playing kind of I was playing Gorman Seedling, which was a part originally played in a sketch. Kind of was an immigration guy played by Bill Murray. And, you know, whatever. Third season, I guess. But I was an immigration guy played by Bill Murray in the, you know, whatever third

season, I guess. But I was the immigration guy in this thing. And, you know, I had kind of a nice time with Lorne and he was looking for someone because he knew that Philip Hartman was leaving the show. So they needed another adult. You know, they had plenty of kids coming up, you know, plenty of younger guys coming up. So they needed someone to be David Spade's dad or to be, and to be Clinton. I mean,

but you know, just following Phil Hartman's Clinton is, that's one of the stupidest things I've ever, and I, they said,

would you do it? And I said, yeah, okay. And it just, no. But you had some good moments. You know,

I had a couple of things that I liked doing. I think you're the answer to the trivia question, too. Oh, yeah? The first person to join the cast after having been a host. Is that not right? In 84. You know what?

I think that is right. Yeah. I'm definitely the first person to have joined the cast after having been both a host and a musical guest. Because Spinal Tap appeared in 1984. That's right. Yeah. So you hosted during when Harry and Chris were there in the Ebersole All-Star year.

The three of us were offered SNL, but my then wife was newly pregnant. We just got a new house. It was not the time to be leaving LA, so I had to pass. So, you know, Harry and Chris went off. I'm not speaking to each other for several years i love that season and it's not available on dvd it's only on vhs i had it

really great stuff now you are also a case of one of those people who people already knew right before you came to snl yeah i see i think the ideal time to do snl to start on snl in the cast is when you're like 28 and really hungry you know and i was 45 and not particularly hungry i kind of i already knew what i did for a living you know and i felt like what i was i was kind of a swing man you know i was kind of a guy who could do some things. And I discovered a few things along the way. And it was fun. And I was on only 26 shows.

But as a writer or co-writer, I had 26 sketches on. So I really don't have 20 sketches on. So I don't have a lot of complaints, you know. It was a lot of fun being paid decent money to be in my hometown and hang out with some, you know, funny people.

A far better experience than Gilbert had. Horrible. Well, that was a real interim. He was a Dumanian. Gene Dumanian. Yeah. Following the original Beatles.

Genie Doom. Her street name is Genie Doom. She's gone very street. Genie Doom. I've actually worked with her several times since then i don't didn't didn't know her in those days but i but she's produced a couple of plays that i've done tell michael that story of uh how you were waiting outside the office oh it's pretty it's worth it's worth telling him i mean that, that show, the season I was on, was doomed from the start. Yeah.

Because we were after the original cast and Lorne Michaels left. Stenny Dillon? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. Sure. And you worked with her on Dream On. I did.

And Charlie. Yeah. Who I worked with in Earth, Girls, Crazy. Wow. Right. I've worked with everybody. I'm the town pump. Let's face it.

And, oh, and Eddie Murphy. Gail Mathias. Yeah, Gail Mathias. Gail's great. Anne Risley. Anne Risley, right. And so I remember. And Biscopo.

It was that, you know, we were all in trouble, and they fired Gene Domain. Yeah. fired Gene Domain. Yeah. And then Dick Ebersole comes in and says, okay, we're going to give everyone a week off, and when you come back, we're just going to make some changes here and there, and we'll meet you and tell you what it is.

And I'm waiting outside his office for my turn to go in, and while I'm killing time out there, they had a desk where they used to dump the fan letters. And I pick up a letter from some girl from Oklahoma or wherever. And she goes, Dear Gilbert, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I love that. Oh, man. I love that story. Yeah. So I was the last to know. Oh, man.

Oh, man. Yeah. Don't come to the upfronts tomorrow. I got that once. Ooh. Yeah. I was on a show called Grand, which was a series, and it was on right after The Cosby Show. So it was like a perfect hammock.

It was like, oh, no way it's not going to be a hit. We did fine numbers and everything. But it wasn't – we weren't holding the numbers and, you know. So they decided to make some changes. And I didn't know that. And I'm doing a Broadway show at the time. And I'm about to go on. And I talked to my agent.

And she said, yeah, don't go to the upfronts. Really? Why not? I thought we were going to do a little piece. And don't go to the upfronts. Why not? Well, you're not going to be on the show anymore. Did you witness something with Norm, with Gilbert's friend Norm MacDonald?

I did. While you were there? I did, yeah. I heard you tell this story. Well, it was a kind of, yeah. Do you know this, Gil? Ian Maxton Graham, who is a writer. He's written on The Simpsons, and he was on SNL at the time. He might still be a writer on The Simpsons.

I don't know. But he's this big, tall guy, and he was always in his jogging suit. He was always out running and working out and stuff. So he came into the writer's room there, and Norm was smoking a cigarette. And he's not supposed to be smoking indoors at the time, you know. He says, but, you know, Norm, he's just like, light up a cigarette.

So he's, Jay Moore is the only one who does a really great Norm MacDonald. But anyway, he's smoking a cigarette, and Ian, you know, said, you're not supposed to smoke up here. And Norm said, yeah, don't worry about it or something. You're not supposed to smoke up here. And Norm said, yeah, don't worry about it or something like that. So Ian squirts him with a bottle of water, just squirts him in the face with it to put the cigarette out. And Norm took a swing at him and they went at it.

And it was pretty good for a couple of seconds. Two real tall, kind of gawky guys, you know, swinging away at each other. And Farley broke it up. Farley just stepped in because he was, you know, that was who he was. So I wish it should have ended with someone going out the window, but it didn't. And entertaining 26 episodes, however many weeks you were there. Yeah, I had some fun. Was Norm screaming or yelling stuff at him while he was punching?

I don't think so. I think it was pretty physical. I think nothing needed to be spoken at that point. No, you cocksucker. Gonna fucking kill you. Herb Sargent told me that Norm punched a couple of people out there. I think it happened fucking kill you. Herb Sargent told me that Norm punched a couple of people out there. I think it happened more than once. Wow.

I've heard that. Yeah. He's an interesting guy. I mean, he is. I think he's fabulous. I think he's very funny. Oh, yes. He's a very smart guy. And he's a very kind of sensitive guy.

I mean, he just did this Larry King interview on Hulu, and he's really kind of wonderful. Wow. Yeah. Well, he teared up at the last week of Letterman. It was so moving. That was amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a real moment. Yeah. But I'm going to bring it back to Spinal Tap only because- Okay. I'm going to go out and take a walk. One of our first guests on this show was Joe Franklin. Yes. You guys famously did the Franklin Show.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean this is the question I'm sure you've been asked. Did he know it? Yeah. We were kidding? Yeah. You know what? It didn't seem so at the time.

Yeah. And we showed up in wardrobe. It's not like we, you know, we traveled there in our spandex and our wigs and stuff and played, you know, the, I guess, listen to the flower people and played the whole version. I remember. Yeah. And he was just, he treated us like any other band who would have been on that show. But the thing I mainly remember, the thing I mainly remember, it was at one point he was wearing a double-breasted brown pinstripe suit.

And at one point he stood up and just to stretch, you know, and I saw that there was a huge just gash in the suit that had been stitched together by a blind person, apparently. And it just broke my heart. It was so sweet. But I remember Joe Franklin from when I was growing up, you know, my whole life. We should tell our listeners you're a local product from Seacliff. I grew up in Seacliff. It was strange.

It's like the show that told you you were staying up too late. Yeah. Well, it was also, though, it was on in the early afternoon when I was a little kid. I first remember Joe Franklin being on in the afternoon. And he would show, you know, some silent stuff, silent comedies, and some really obscure, like Wheeler and Woolsey. Oh, yes.

Oh, yeah. You know, and those were, you know, those were sound. And Charlie Chase, who you never saw anywhere. Charlie Chase was really, really funny. Now, I think it was Wheeler and Woolsey. Was that the team where one of them painted on his eyeglasses? Yeah, Burt Wheeler. Yeah.

Yeah, yes, indeed. Fooling exactly no one. I just thought it was just kind of weird that no one in the film with him went, did you paint those? I think Raucho had a painted mustache. That's a little different. All right. It's the same thing.

I used to feel, remember the show Jungle Jim with Johnny Weissmuller? Yeah. I kept waiting for someone to say, yes, Inspector, and this is Jungle Jim. Jungle Jim? But nobody ever did. What the hell? You said Lorne Michaels got mad at you just once. Yeah.

I was reading backstage. I was reading this book about soccer hooligans. I couldn't take my eyes off it. And I had nothing to do for like 20 minutes. I was reading this book about soccer hooligans. I couldn't take my eyes off it. And it was, I had nothing to do for like 20 minutes, you know. And he just kind of glowered at me, catching up on your reading. And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. I just, I didn't know, you know, what do you say?

It was, I did, I was doing it out in the open. It was so stupid. But you know what? I would do anything to keep me away from those crass cervix tables. They were just insane. They would put vats of macaroni and cheese out there, and I was just, I gained so much weight on that show. I went into Slim-O, and I came out of the fatty.

You're a big, like us, silent comedy fan. I mean, obviously, you're bringing up people like Charlie Chase. We've had six people, I think, by our count. You know where I'm going with this, Ken. Who worked with Buster Keaton. We've had six people on this show who worked with Ken. We had Chuck McCann. James Caron. We had James Caron.

Jimmy Caron. Yeah. I remember Jimmy Caron. Yes, nice man. Great guy. And we had, who else? Paul Dooley. Oh, yes, yes. Yes.

Wow. I did not know that. We had Frankie Avalon. Was Larry Storch? Frankie Avalon got some beach pictures. Yes. That's right. Not Storch.

I'm trying to remember who the other ones were. There was another one. Well, Dick Van Dyke. Oh, yes. Well, knew him. Didn't work. We just had Dick Van Dyke on the show last week. Wow.

Yeah. That's pretty impressive. 90. Right there. I know. You know, I don't have to tell you. Sharp is... And totally alert. Yeah, yeah, That's pretty impressive career right there. I know. You know, I don't have to tell you, Sharp is...

And totally alert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Norman Lear, who's 94. And, you know, I guess we should get Norman Lear. I don't think we'll ever

get Harry Shearer. You don't? Never say never. Well, you never know. He did the Marin show. I know that. Said some crummy things. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this.

And I love this, too. You played Carl Laemmle in Drunk History. Oh, wow. I did. Yeah. This is stuff right up our alley, Michael. Yeah, I love Drunk History. These are the people we talk about.

The head of Universal Studios. Yes, the guy who started Universal, yeah. With all, yeah, that's, I love him because I'm just such a fan of the old monster movies. Oh, me too. Yeah. Oh, my God. Now, you grew up in New York? In New York, yeah.

So, do you remember when the Universal Monster movies first started in Shock Theater? Yes. There were Saturday nights at like 1130 or something. I remember there were certain nights or certain channels that would have the Universal Classic Monster movies. that would have the universal classic monster movies. And then there were like a million of the other stuff, like Indestructible Man and Plan 9. But still were also fun.

Yeah, they were great. And Zachary Lee, you remember Zachary Lee? Oh, yes. He's still with us. Yes. I have an autographed T-shirt. Mike Thompson, who was one of the makeup guys on SNL, is friends with Zach. And he got me an autographed T-shirt, a picture of Zachary on it. It says, to Michael McKeon, good luck in the afterlife.

That's fantastic. Yeah, he was awesome and I remember he Zachary Lee used to you know and it was more tricky back then because it was live he would jump

into the movie oh yeah but he'd do it sparingly yeah he'd do it just a couple of times a half an hour

and one time was brilliant it was I think it was The Raven remember with Karloff and Lugosi? Yes.

And Lugosi was playing the organ as villainous people often did in those movies. And he just replaced the music. So there was supposed to be this minor key ominous music. But instead it was like. It was hysterical. Is the Raven the one where he's the twisted surgeon where he has to – what's the – where he has to – And he messes up Karloff's face. Right, right.

And I think somebody said that they came across a makeup box and in it was like a round piece of white paper with a black dot in it. And they were saying, what the hell is this? And they figured out that that white piece of paper with the black dot was the Karloff's other eye. Oh, my God. Wow. Really cool stuff. Yeah. You like the black cat, too?

I do like the black cat. It's a good one. I have this is a makeup relic I have a mold of one of the ears that Martin Landau wore as Lugosi in Ed Wood. Oh wow. That's cool.

Yeah. I got one of those on my mantle. I also have a life mask of Karloff. Oh, see, I don't have a Karloff. I have a Lugosi, Lon Chaney. A cast? Yeah, yeah, the life mask. Lugosi, Lon Chaney Jr., and Vincent Price. Wow.

And also Al Pacino. Al Pacino meets Sean. Where'd you come across these? I've got them from makeup people will have these. Yeah. There was this outfit up in Nyack that I had to get a prosthetic thing for a mangled arm I did for a TV show. And they had Jimmy Durante and they had all these people on the wall and everything. And I said, there was a Karloff there.

I said, oh my God, that's great. Oh, yeah. We'll send you one. Oh, yes. So they mailed me one. I love that you both have horror icon life masks on your wall. Yeah.

I got two of me. I got one from a Star Trek I did and one that's just my regular face that was cast for the Adam Sandler movie, The Little Nicky. Because they had to do a special effects thing for my face. They did one of me and I never got a copy. Well, maybe you can contact them and see if it's still lying around someplace. I'm sure, like, all these makeup men seem to have the same ones.

If they don't have it, they could get it. They get a copy. Yeah. Well, sure. They just took a little melange and make a copy of same ones. Right. If they don't have it, they could get it. They get a copy. Yeah. Well, sure. They just took a little melange and make a copy of that one. Yeah. We had Sarah Karloff on this show. Really?

We had Bella Jr. Wow. Bela Jr. Bela Jr. And we had- Lon Chaney Jr.'s grandson. We had Ron Chaney. Ron Chaney.

Yeah. Bless his heart. Yeah. And I've heard you tell that story, the wonderful story of the drunk Lon Chaney Jr. on live television. This I have to hear. Well, apparently he was doing Frankenstein. He was playing the Frankenstein monster. Oh, yes. You know this.

You know this. And he thought it was still that he'd been drinking since early in the morning, and he thought it was still the dress rehearsal. that he'd been drinking since early in the morning, and he thought it was still the dress rehearsal. So instead of picking up the table and throwing it, he would pick it up a little bit and say, so I pick up the table and throw it. But instead of throwing it, he puts it down.

So it was basically he was feng shui-ing the lab instead of destroying it while it was on, while the cameras were rolling, apparently. Speaking of Vincent Price, since you guys brought him up, you want to do something silly? I'll try. I haven't done him in a while. You both, Gilbert does a wonderful Vincent Price, which he's done on the show numerous times.

There's such a call for it. And Michael did a wonderful Vincent Price on SNL and in other places. And I thought you guys could each take a section of this. Okay. Sure. Go. So, Gilbert, you want to do the one that's Mark G?

If it's really good, I'm not going to come in. I know. That's the way I feel. He's pretty good. You can do the second paragraph. The tingler exists in every human being. We now know. Look at the tingler exists in every human being. We now know. Look at the tingler, Dave.

It's an ugly and dangerous thing. Ugly because it's the creation of man's fear. And dangerous because a frightened man is dangerous. Ladies and gentlemen, just a word of warning. If any of you are not convinced that you have a tingler of your own, the next time you're frightened in the dark, don't scream. Now both of us. Now do it together.

Ladies and gentlemen, please do not panic, but scream. Scream for your lives. That's like the first Beatles records where they were double-tracked in unison. I love it. Have you, I've met Vincent Price like twice.

I never met him. Wow. I saw him in a couple of restaurants in LA and almost went up to him

but then said no. But I remember your impression and you kept referencing my wife, the actress

Coral, Coral Brown. My wife, the actress, Coral Brown. My wife, the actress, Coral Brown. I actually saw an interview with him or some kind of – maybe it was a pledge break or something on PBS. And he said that at least twice. Right. Well, you did – one of the sketches you did on SNL was a pledge break. That's, yeah.

Was it a pledge-a-thon or something. That's where I first saw you do it. Dead man's beans. Yeah. It's a recipe. I was reading a recipe. That's right. We had Victoria Price on here, too, on the show.

Yeah, yeah, she's very sweet. That's cool. And she's forthcoming about, you know, his sexuality and other things. Oh, his decadillo. Oh, shit. Hey, you know what? We and other things. He's got gigadillos. Hey, you know what? We're all grownups here. Not that anybody, I think, was ever really totally. See, it was weird.

Back then, gay was either eccentric or sinister. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. Just like, you know, Paul Lynn was eccentric. I'll just say the least. Yeah, he wasn't gay. He was just like, or Charles Nelson Reilly, eccentric. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah, yeah.

I just, I used to, you know, in Laura, for example, which is a, you know, terrific movie. Yeah. And here's this guy who's the kind of the interloper. You know, he's the kind of, he's the ladies' man. And it was like, yes. Okay. I remember in Laura, that's where. And Clifton Webb, who was also.

Yes. I was just going to say, Clifton Webb, too. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Yeah. So Laura I was just going to say Clifton Webb, too. Oh, perfect. Yeah. So Laura was kind of a, you know. Everyone in it was gay. Yeah.

But they're not supposed to be. Yeah. I remember at Laura, that's where they said to Vincent Price, oh, do you know a lot about art? And he goes, I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everything. That's right. Now, I've heard you say that you never found Vincent Price scary. You found Peter Lorre scary. But you never thought...

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, Peter Lorre is scary in M. Yes. And that's like, that's a seriously creepy movie. Yes. And that made him a star. Yeah.

You know, that was kind of, it was interesting. It was like Peter Lorre and Richard Widmark became a star from a role that was really sinister. Oh, The Kiss of Death. The Kiss of Death, yeah. I mean, you can't,

you can't top kicking an old lady, a crippled old lady down the stairs in a wheelchair. And he had that, like, crazy laugh. Yeah. And I think that's where Frank Gorshin got the Riddler laugh from. Yeah, I think you're probably right. Yeah, definitely. Now, the minute I said that Michael McKeon was going to be on the show,

inevitably, everyone... that Michael McKeon was going to be on the show. Inevitably. Yeah. Everyone. I don't know where you're going with this. Be careful, Michael. Be afraid. He's already breaking himself up. We have to address the...

He never worked with Danny Thomas, so don't go there. Don't even bother. I was in a car with Tom Leopold when Gary Goodrow, does that name ring any bells? Oh sure, is it National Lampoon? Lampoon, he was with Lemmings.

But he was also with the committee, Second City. Right, right. Living theater and he took saxophone lessons from Charlie Parker. So the guy really got around. He was the one we first heard that from. And Tom Leopold, Tom Leopold, I've never heard, I mean, when he gets lost in a laugh, he was gone.

He was gone for a half an hour. He was inconsolable. He was laughing so hard. I've had hour-long conversations with Tom Leopold on that subject. It's an inexhaustible topic for him. And then I heard a story that someone asked Milton Berle about Danny Thomas. And Milton Berle got serious and said, yeah, Danny was a Jekyll and Hyde. Wow.

Wow. Where were you going with this before I stopped you? You never shit on Danny Thomas. That's what I want. Did you ever throw orange wedges at Cesar Romero's naked ass? Have you heard this one? No, I haven't. According to every show.

I apologize, Michael. When you say every show. Every one of them. Meet the Press, for example. The McNeil-Lauer book. This just in. Caesar. Caesar Romero.

In case any of our listeners haven't heard me say that. 72 times. Caesar Romero. You know, he also Latin lover on camera. Yeah, yeah. Smoothie. But, you know, he's gay in real life. Yeah, yeah.

Smoothie. But, you know, he was gay in real life. And his thing was he'd gather up a bunch of young boy toys, and then he'd pull down his pants and underwear and bend over, and they'd have to throw orange wedges at his ass. Some say tangerine wedges. That's the only argument. That's ridiculous. Some say tangelos.

Yeah. See, that's the only argument. Some citrus was flogging at his ass. Well, I guess that's kind of a beautiful story. I've not heard that before. No. Now, he's asked at least three guests that we've had

that work with Cesar Romero. He asked Julie Newmar. He asked Mary Weather, bless her heart. Adam West. And Adam West. I think you're asking

the wrong people. I really do. I think Roddy McDowell could have told you. Right. Oh, he would have been a good one. Or Victor Bono, perhaps.

Or David Wayne. Or Vincent Price. For God's sake, yeah. Yeah, Mr. Egghead. The guy who did my makeup on Laverne and Shirley did Cesar Romero's Joker makeup. Really? Yeah. That's pretty cool.

He did. No, he did a lot of the Batman stuff. Did he mention smelling of orange? He always smelled so fresh. Almost a citrus kind of scent. I just assumed it was. It's the truest nickname they used to call him, Mr. Tropical. Oh, man.

He had his tattooed on his ass from concentrate. See, it's so easy. A couple of things to ask you about here, Mike, as we're winding down. No, no. Here's what I want to ask. He's got something in his head. Okay, go ahead. You know, naturally, we can't avoid the inevitable.

Everyone said, of course, can you and Michael McKeon sing a duet of Just Walk Away, Renee? Walk Away, Renee? Yeah. I didn't do the vocals on that. Were you in the left bank when they recorded that? Yes and no. Yes with an asterisk. The original band kind of fell apart after their first album, which kind of tanked.

And then suddenly they had a hit single. And they re-released the album, but the band wasn't getting along. And Mike Brown, who was the author of Walk Away Renee, co-author, and he wrote Pretty Ballerina, which was their other top 20 hit. He tried to assemble another, put together another band.

It was a guy named Bert Sommer on bass and vocals. He had kind of a tenor voice similar to, he's a much better singer than Steve Martin, who was the, not that Steve Martin, the lead singer of the original Left Bank. And a guy named Warren Shearhorst, who had played drums on some of the original tracks. And so we put together this new version and I was 19 and we rehearsed and we were about to do some gigs. And then Mike Brown had a big falling out with his father who was also our manager. And so we never actually did anything. We released one, they released one single while we were together, but it was all session guys. It was Bert singing lead and Mike on keyboards,

but everybody else was a session guy. I wasn't much of a guitar player at the time. Well, would you be willing to try it now? Sure. Let's see. It's an E flat originally, but it doesn't have... That means nothing to him. You've obviously never...

And when I see the sign that points one way The lot we used to pass by every day Just walk away, Rene Pass by every day. Just walk away, Renee. You won't see me. I'm trying to do harmony, but it's not possible. Forget it. I need a melody. You back home.

The empty sidewalks on my block are not the same. You're not to blame. See, I'm playing my guitar part with my voice. It's all wrong. I say we don't go on. It can only get worse. Your name is... You know who should cover this song?

Rufus Wainwright. Oh! Wouldn't he be amazing? Oh, my God. That'd be great. I've known Rufus since he was months old. Because you met Loudon at college. Because I have to sing in each show.

Okay. My fans... He sings on every show. All right. You've got some instruments out there. Yeah. There's one there they've prepared for you. We'll be putting you on some instruments out there. Yeah. There's one there they've prepared for you.

We'll be putting you on a spot. Okay. Yeah. I haven't taken my Advil today. I got a little arthritis.

Really? Now this is something I found a surprise. You're married to the actress Annette O'Toole? Sure is. My wife, the actress Annette O'Toole.

I am. Yes, we've been married 16 years. Yeah. Yep. Because why I remember Annnetto Tool is she showed her tits in Cat People. Yes, she did.

Great, great scene. Yes. Yeah. I was very, very tell-hard. It's impressive. When you talk to your wife, please thank her for me. Okay. She's been thanked for that a lot.

Yeah. I like her and cross my heart with Martin Short. Marty Short. Yeah. Did she show her tits? No. No. No.

Marty did. In Cat People, great, great, great. Yeah. She's gorgeous. Still gorgeous. She is now playing a man in a show called Southern Comfort. It's a musical. It's down at the Public.

Wow. They opened officially on the 8th. They're in previews right now, and they're sold out. But it's amazing. It's a very remarkable musical. They've been workshopping it for five years. So they got their big New York shot now. Good for her.

What's it called? Southern Comfort. Southern Comfort at the Public. Yes. Okay. Doing a little research, I didn't know that she had been acting so long, that she had been in stuff in the 70s, that she was in the Partridge family. She was. Was it the Virginian and My Three Sons?

Yeah. Did you know that, Gilbert? She'd been doing it that long. Gunsmoke. Gunsmoke, yeah. It was her first TV thing was a Gunsmoke when she was 18. And then wasn't she in one of the incarnations of Superman? Yeah, she was.

She was Lois Lane. No, no, she was, excuse me, Lana Lang in Superman 3. And then she was on Smallville as Martha Kent, you know, Clark's mom. Yeah, exactly. And I was Perry White on that show Clark's mom. Yeah, exactly. And I was Perry White on that show. I remember. Oh, wow. Yeah, I just did a couple of episodes. Nepotism.

They never had you say Great Caesar's Ghost. You know, I think, no. They had another character do it, and I kind of react to it because it's like it's the nascent Perry White's before he's the editor of the of the planet. He's this kind of investigative before he was the blustery that Perry White. Yeah, but that was a fun show to do. It's up in Vancouver, which is a nice town. You want to tell us Gilbert.

Did you know that Michael was in the Sunshine Boys remake with Peter Falk and Woody Allen? Oh, my God. I saw that. I've never seen it, and I don't intend to. I hear it's pretty dire. I remember watching that on TV, and I thought, Woody Allen and Peter Falk, this has to be great. And Peter Falk, this has to be great. And I remember, first of all, it seemed like Peter Falk and Woody Allen were in two different productions.

That's very true. That's very true. Like Peter Falk was doing like this 90-year-old Jewish man. Mm-hmm. And Woody Allen was Woody Allen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I just worked one day on that show and they were two very, very different people.

You know, I had a lot of fun with Peter and Woody was just kind of by himself, you know, he just kind of liked getting through it and he didn't socialize really. And I worked with, I worked with Woody a couple of times years later, you know, and it kind of depends on what he's doing, I think. I did a film with him and he was great. And I did a play with him that he wrote and directed. And he wasn't – it wasn't his element, you know. He likes being the film director. He likes being the guy making the movie, you know.

And he was really fun then, you know. But I don't know. It's just your sphere will tell a lot about you, I think. Yeah. But Peter was great. Peter was like a super guy.

but it seemed like the two of them were in two totally different productions. Very, very true. And didn't they have a, didn't they give the Richard Benjamin character

a sex change? Wasn't it Sarah Jessica Parker? Sarah Jessica Parker, that's right. How strange. I know. Yeah. Do you have any stories,

anything about working with Busey? You were another guest on our podcast. And you do a pretty good Busey impression. When I did it on SNL, the next day, the Sunday after I had done the show, I ran into him in the airport. And he said, I hear you did me on SNL last night. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm, you know,

because I'm, you know, I didn't know how he was going to react. Right, exactly. I had worked with him before, you know, and in this movie. And he said,

I didn't see my manager said it was really funny, though. So we'd run into each other. And Annette, you know, who I wasn't with at that time, but she worked with him years before, too. We had him on here.

Yeah, he's a character. He's a strange cat. That's a nice way of putting it. Any stories about Clue or Radioland murders? Two movies I actually like. They're sort of maligned. I've never seen all of Radioland. Clue I'm very fond of.

Yeah, it's fun. And we did have a lot of fun. We had some really funny lunches. And a great cast. With, yeah, Martin Mull and Tim Curry and Eileen Brannan and Madeline Kahn and Chris Lloyd. And it was just, everyone was a little bit nuts, you know. And we just had a lot of fun. Co-written by John Landis, which I don't think a lot of people know.

Co-written by John Landis. The original pitch was by John Cleese. Really? Who was going to play the butler. This I didn't know. Yeah. And I don't think they used any of his material because they did a total rewrite when John Lynn came aboard, Jonathan Lynn, the director. Right.

And it was his first film. And we've stayed close, and he directed me in a play a couple of years ago in L.A., and he was baffled. He was baffled when it was a flop, and now he's really baffled that it's the movie he's most well-known for. Because people love Clue. People who grew up with it

just really love it. And it is. It's a really sweet kind of goofball movie. The reviews were decidedly mixed at the time, but its reputation has grown over the years.

Yeah, it didn't get much in the way of criticals. Also, I think the original idea was to release it with three different endings and you never knew which ending you were going to get.

Right. And it made people very cynical about it. People, they're responsible. How good is this movie going to be if it could end three different ways? So finally, for the home video, they released it with, well, maybe that's how it happened. Maybe this is how it happened. And so they released three endings. There was a fourth ending, which they never even cut because it was kind of a big mess.

But I'm the only one who was never guilty. Mr. Green. Mr. Green was the only one who never committed any murders. Here's one question about Spinal Tap that will get Gilbert interested in it. Which was this movie again? I'm not going to give it up, Michael. Okay. Were the drummers named with the Stooges in mind?

Yes, of course. There you go. Well, they become, it became, we just thought of Stumpy as a funny nickname for the guy. And then his replacement, how about Stumpy Joe? Right, Stumpy Joe. The drummers keep dying to see Gilbert. It's a runner. The last one was Joe Mama Besser.

Well, I knew that Joe Mama Besser was... Joe Mama Besser played by Fred Asparagus. That was his name. There's a real guy, Fred Asparagus? Real guy who was also in Three Amigos. Really? Yeah. I don't lie.

This is good stuff. Because I don't need to. The shit I actually know is weird enough. I don't have to make stuff up. Gil, any other questions for this man? Yeah. What about Cannonball Adderley, you can ask me? Yes.

What about Cannonball Adderley? This is from Tom Leopold, who wrote me today, and he said, Ask Mike about Cannonball Adderley's Maalox, and he wants you to respond to The Square Square World of Dick Conti. Well, to take care of that, The Square Square World of Dick Conti was a comedy album I had.

It was recorded live. I used to be able to remember the name of the club. It was like Estelle's or something like that in Cairo, Illinois. And he was just this really kind of just average comic. Not the worst you ever heard. Not the best. So in the drugstore, I buy this rat poison. I say, how do you use this?

He says, you put it next to the rat's hole. I said, look, if he had his back turned, I'd strangle the son of a bitch. I came home. I said, honey, let's go out. Grab a shovel and powder up. I mean, it was that level of stuff. So that's

Dick Conte. Sort of like Jack Carter or who he's like an amalgam of. Very much. Very much. We almost had Jack Carter. We almost had him. He died after we booked him. Yeah.

Yeah. He was a character more. So, but anyway, Cannibal Ladder, we were playing at the Summerfest in 1975 when it was the combined Ace Trucking Company and Credibility Act that I told you about before. And we were on the bill, you know, the bill of the whole fair with Chuck Berry, Ella Fitzgerald, Cannonball Adderley. And we were over in the, you know, the who in the who cares tent. We were doing our thing. But it was like a really kind of an interesting thing. So we run into cannonball there, and, you know, hey, man, how you doing? Oh, my stomach is really killing me.

I must have drunk about a gallon of Maalox. I'm going to go lie down. And he laid down. He went into a coma, and he didn't come out of it. Wow. It was like days later, he was gone. Yeah. We had a very late conversation with Cannonball Annerley.

Wow. Yeah, I know. That's what he came up with. I said, we have Michael McKean on the show. Give me something from, because you guys have known each other, what, 40 years? Yeah. 45 years? Yeah, yeah.

That's what he came up with. Now, I just thought of another team that is forgotten. Yeah. The Times Square Two. Peter Ebling. Wow. And I don't remember the other guy's actual name, but they went by the name of Mycroft Partner and Andrew I. And they would introduce each other

as My Partner and I. Oh. Times Square 2, they're a very funny act. And Peter, I see Peter occasionally. They're still around? Mycroft left the business a long time ago.

That wasn't his real name. Yeah. I forget what his real name is. How about the Stude Prunes? Stude Prunes, I don't remember as well. Richard Libertini, who just passed away.

Oh, yeah. We wanted him for the show, yeah. He was an awesome guy. Just loved him. And McIntyre Dixon. I remember McIntyre Dixon. They had a duo called Stude Prunes. And they were just hilarious.

It was just that free form, very nonverbal, you know, just kind of, you know, strange little pieces. I wonder if you could find any of this stuff, if it exists in any form. Maybe. Stewed prunes were actually in a movie called Fire Sail. I know the movie. Yeah. Robert Clay. They were the painters.

Where's Papa? They were the painters. Okay. Well, Libertini's in that. He's one of the painters. And McIntyre's the other one. That's right. Yeah.

Directed by Alan Arkin. Yes. That movie, while being uneven, has a hell of a lot of funny stuff in it. And Vincent Gardenia. Great. Yeah. Rob Reiner. And Rob Reiner.

And everybody. Have you ever seen Fire Sail? Written by a guy. Were you in it? No. Oh, then I must have seen it. It's good to have principles, isn't it, Gilbert? I can't believe you brought that movie up.

In fact, it's one of my favorite films. I have a copy signed by the entire... In fact, it wasn't in the film, but there's billing. It says, not Michael McKeon, which is what got Gilbert into the theater, obviously. Here's a team, a comedy team for both of you guys that was perhaps not as obscure. Patchett and Tarsus. Sure. Radio.

Yeah. Remember Patchett and Tarsus? Yes. And then Jay Tarsus became. Jay Tarsus. Created Molly Dodd and... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Slap Matt Buffalo Bill and...

Yeah. All kinds of wonderful television. That was a funny show, wasn't it? It was a terrific show. It was a great show. Terrific show. See some of those. And you worked with Dabney Coleman.

Drabbers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're trying to get him to come on here and talk to us. He's a surly bastard. That's what I hear. He's great.

That's what I hear. He's great, yeah. Before we let you go, talk about, just tell us a little bit about Chuck McGill. Yeah, it's this character I play on Better Call Saul, and he's a very, very brilliant lawyer who is being squeezed out of the real world because of an affliction. He has a hypersensitivity to electromagnetic fields, and so he doesn't go out of the house, and he can't stand to be around electronics and everything. And so he's had to retreat from the world we all live in. You're getting great notices. I do. People are liking the show. I mean, they hate my character because he's a prick.

I mean, there's no reason to hate somebody. Come on. We might be about to elect one. Well done. But it's a good show. And I get to work with Vince Gilligan, who I worked with on X-Files years ago. And Bob Odenkirk, who is one of my favorite people. And Ray Sehorne, who is

brilliant. And Jonathan Banks, who is the badass's badass. Another terrific. Yeah. Heavy. Yeah, yeah. And we have a great time. We shoot out in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where they have at least two great thunderstorms a week.

It's my favorite thing about Albuquerque. It's gorgeous. Skies just go. They go all Joshua Light show. It's nice. It's fabulous. It's nice. And for the record, I've never seen an episode of Just Call Saul.

Better Call Saul. Better Call Saul. You can watch Just Call Saul because I'm not in that. I'm out of questions, Michael, unless you want to say something about Joyce Boulefont. I said she had a hair helmet. Yeah, that wasn't very nice. She's around. She was very nice. I made fun of her on the Letterman Show because I had never been on the Letterman Show before.

Thanks for doing this and putting up with us. My pleasure. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre at Nutmeg Studios with our engineer Frank Ferdarosa and we've

had a man who I've never seen in anything. Ladies and gentlemen. The very low profile Michael McKeon. You're one of those guys we could talk to for hours and hours, but we barely scratched the surface. Well, thank you guys. Everything you're into. Okay.

So we'll see you again. Next time we'll talk about Max Swain. Max Swain. Max Swain! Oh my God! Or Dwight Frye. I tried to drop his name as a gag once in front of a huge audience and they went, crickets, crickets. I thought you said Max. They thought you, they didn't know it was Max.

They didn't. Max Wayne. Max Wayne. I don't know what I was thinking. I thought it was going to be hilarious. Okay, last thing. All right. Gilbert brought up an actor on this show a couple of weeks ago.

I have some hope that you might be one of the few people who would know who this was. You want to pull it out? Oh, was this Skelton Nags or Knags? Do you know this guy? If we showed you his face, you would. Give him a hint. He was

just a really ugly looking guy. Real creepy, bad skin. And he played, he was in a pirate movie. He may have been. Yeah, that's something he would be. I think I do. He was in at least two Frankenstein movies as an angry villager.

Oh. He made Jack Elam look like Tyrone Power. I think I actually, I think I know who you're talking about. I think I saw him and he had a couple of lines in a pirate movie in like Captain Blood or something. We're going to show them to you. And I had to look them up. I said, what the hell is that? You'll have to come back and we'll just talk about old horror films.

Let's do it. And old character actors. Deal. Okay, man. Thank you. Just anything as long as you earn in it. And I'll be willing to talk. I was in none of the old

Universal horror pictures. We'll talk about those. That's why I love them. Thanks, Mike. Okay, man. Thank you. Thank you, Gil.