Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Aaron Lee & Rainn Wilson Encore

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

GGACP celebrates the birthday of Emmy-nominated actor Rainn Wilson (b. January 20, 1966) by posting this ENCORE of a memorable 2021 interview with Rainn and writer-producer Aaron Lee. In this episode, Rainn and Aaron talk nerd culture, haunted houses, the many moods of Jerry Lewis, the staying power of "The Office" and the outrageousness of the Comedy Central roasts. Also, Gilbert plays a horse, Aaron pens jokes for Larry Flynt, Rainn wrestles Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Henny Youngman teams with the "Godfather of Gore." PLUS: "Zardoz"! "Clutch Cargo"! The comedy of Foster Brooks! "The Osbourne Family Christmas"! Rainn hangs with Pete Best! And Aaron remembers the late, great Mike McPadden! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And on this episode, we're thrilled to have two guests. Aaron Lee is a writer and a producer of popular TV series, including The Cleveland Show, Superstore, The New Normal, and the little show I've appeared on a couple of times myself, Family Guy. He's also written and produced numerous specials, including the MTV Movie Awards and the Primetime Emmy Awards, as well as the reality show Spoof Show, my big, fat, obnoxious boss. And he's collaborated with none other than yours truly on original material

for the Comedy Central roast of Bob Saget, the Comedy Central Roast of Bob Saget, the Comedy Central Roast of Joan Rivers, and the Comedy Central Roast of Roseanne, among others. He's also the former co-host of the greatly missed podcast Crackpot Cinema, along with our dearly departed friend and colleague, Mike McFadden. And he's also the co-creator, along with this week's other special guest, of the hit

podcast, Dark Air, with Terry Carnation. cast Dark Air with Terry Carnation. And for some odd reason, he remains to this day obsessed with a joke from Mad Magazine parody of Gary Coleman's movie On the Right Track. Rainn Wilson is a writer, best-selling author, producer, director,

and Emmy-nominated actor of the big and small screen. You've seen him in notable TV programs like Monk, Entourage, Six Feet Under, Transparent, Mom, The Rookie, and Star Trek Discovery. And, of course, as one of the most beloved and unforgettable characters in the history of the medium, Dwight K. Schrute on NBC's long-running show, The Office. You bet. He's done outstanding work and features as well in the films like Almost Famous, Galaxy Quest, Juno, Hesher, and the 2018 prehistoric shark movie, The Meg.

Ah, the Bassoon King. Art, idiocy, and other sordid tales from the band room. As well as the New York Times bestseller, Soul Pancake, Chew on Life's Big Questions. He's also co-created and writes and stars in the previous mention, Dark Air with Terry Carnation. And this man claims he once lived in a haunted house and he appeared in the worst production of the worst play William Shakespeare ever wrote. Frank and I are excited to welcome to the show the multi-talented Aaron Lee and Rainn Wilson. Wow. What a thrill. Epic.

Yes. Wow. It's an epic intro. Greatest intro ever. We could just drop the mic. Let's leave. Epic. Yes. Wow. It's an epic intro. Greatest intro ever. We could just drop the mic. Let's leave right now. Goodbye. It could double as an obituary.

All it needs is found dead in his Los Angeles apartment. Found dead in his studio. In Burbank. When I hear those credits, Frank, I'm reminded how many cheesy credits I have. I left some out. This podcast. Aaron, you have way cheesier credits than that. You have so many terrible credits.

I have ABC's Are You Hot is the first credit on my IMDb page. I've tried to get that taken off 100 times. But this podcast. What was Are You Hot? That was Lorenzo Lamas with a laser pointer pointing to men and women in swimsuits bodies to point out their flaws and judge if they were hot or not. It was a ripoff of when Howard used to do that,

but on ABC. And I had to write banter for Lorenzo Lamas. How would that go? What would a sample Lorenzo Lamas. How would that go? What would a sample Lorenzo Lamas banter be like? Oh, you know, that's not a thong. That's more like a wrong, you know, or some terrible, terrible quips like that. That's not bad.

Like fashion police jokes. Yes, exactly. That's not bad. That kind of stuff. But this is my favorite because I'm an obsessive fan of this podcast as frank knows and and gilbert i've been listening since the very beginning i know caesar romero and the orange wedges i know danny thomas i'm i'm the world's biggest fan of this podcast so it's an honor to know about quincy jones story about marlon brando and Richard Pryor. Yes, I do. But I don't think Rain does.

I don't. Why don't you tell Rain, Gil? Oh, okay. Just recently, about a year ago, Quincy Jones says he was partying with Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor once. And they both got really coked up, and Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor fucked each other.

That's fantastic. Hold still, Richard. You're moving around so much. This is great. This is great fucking coke, man. I'm going to enter you rectally now. Good, Brando. Yeah, I always imagine when I think of that story

that Brando would be on top. Yeah, of course. To see an 800-pound Brando crushing be on top. Yeah, of course. To see an 800-pound Brando crushing Orchard Fire. Was this late-stage Brando? Was he enormous at the time? One can only hope. Yes, yes.

Unsurprisingly, Quincy's family stopped him from doing interviews shortly thereafter. You know, Aaron, because we mentioned... We're off to a great start. We mentioned Family Guy, and I remember agents try to act like

they're really doing important work. And so the last time that Family Guy had called me for something, this agent says, now there's a rule that if they draw a picture of you, animate a picture of you, you have to get approval. And I had to explain to the agent, like, well, last time I was on Family Guy, I was a horse. And I'm coming back as a dog whistle. So I don't think we need to bring the legal department in on this one. It's also so ridiculous how many insulting drawings have been done to celebrities on Family Guy over the years. There's no way that's a law.

Yes. We draw Roseanne as, like, Jabba the Hutt. You know, there's no way that's a law. Yes, yes. We draw Roseanne as like Jabba the Hutt. There's no way that gets approved. Rain was on too, was he not? I was on as big forehead guy because I do have an inhumanly large forehead. But it was me as Dwight. I kind of was doing Dwight

and then Dwight had a big forehead. And I had to get approval from NBC and Greg Daniels in the office to do Dwight's voice on Family Gar. And they mocked the office. Oh, yeah, they just shit on the office. I think Seth hates the office. I think he just does not understand why it's as popular as it was. But it was fun. I was happy to be a part of it.

Aaron, do you want us to mention some more of those credits that we left out? Oh, some of my terrible credits? Let's go to town. I know Gilbert at least wanted to ask about the Osborne family Christmas special. I didn't even remember. Until you say that, I didn't even remember I had done that. I do remember doing the Kid Rock Christmas special. Oh, my God.

I was on a real hot streak of dirtbag Christmas specials, and I did those two. But I don't remember anything about the Osborne Christmas special. I can't tell you anything about it. Is the Kid Rock Christmas special out there? Is it on YouTube can you see it god I hope not I hope none of this I hope no one can see any of this shit what's another of your most embarrassing I mean the most embarrassing and career-worthy ending

is Hustler magazine when I was 22 years old course, getting the job as their humor editor. But then from those depths. How much do they pay? What does Hustler Magazine pay a 22-year-old to be the humor editor? I can tell you how much. $19,000 a year. It was the most I had ever made in my life. That's fantastic. Yes.

You know, Aaron, we never go to questions this early. But your friend and mine, Daniel Frank, says Aaron is a good friend of mine. He used to work for Flint Publications, so ask him about his exit interview. Oh, yeah. I do remember this story. At my exit interview for Hustler magazine, they said, you have to give us the reason you're leaving in three words or less. And I thought about it, and I said, moment of clarity. That's my exit interview at Hustler.

That's probably still on a big computer somewhere in a basement at Hustler magazine. And a weird connection, a weird Flint connection to Rain, a loose connection. And that Rain just did that. He's my father. Yes. Larry Flint is your father. You just did that Roy Radin podcast. Yeah.

And it was Flint's bodyguards, his one-time bodyguards, who bumped off Roy Radin. What? Wow. That was Larry Flint's bodyguard. I didn't even put that together. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the Cotton Club Murders is a podcast on Audible I did voices for, and it's one

of the most, I mean, I can't believe there's not a movie about it, but it's one of the most incredible true Hollywood stories, and people don't know it, and it was so recent. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. He was quite a character running away as a kid to join the circus. Yeah. Roy Radin. Yeah, and he had the Legends of Vaudeville tour that he produced.

And then he would, when they came to a town, he would hire the policemen to sell the tickets. So the policemen were calling everyone in the town like, this is Officer Lombardo. We'd really like you to buy 10 tickets to the Legends of Vaudeville tour that's coming to Schenectady on thursday night and and he would sell out every house because he got the cops to sell the tickets that's how he made his fortune a real shady character and and frank and i were talking about and this this really struck me

because i feel the same way um uh you rain were saying that you hate this, how like, you know, Hollywood and the culture in general has adopted like, oh, like the hip nerd thing. Oh, you talk about it in the book. You know, your kind of resentment of the co-opting of nerd culture. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. We could have a debate on whether that is ultimately positive or negative. But yeah, I was like an actual – Aaron and I were both actual nerds.

Like I was – Us too. I was on the ceramics club and I played the bassoon and modeled United Nations. And I was covered in pimples. And there was, you know, being a quote-unquote nerd in the late 70s and early 80s was like, there was nothing cool about it. You just got the shit kicked out of you.

People mocked you. They spat at you. You really were rejected. But I think Hollywood essentially just cashed in. They kind of realized, oh, wait a minute. There's a whole audience here. We can attune our movies and our crap to this nerd audience. It's just – there's nothing – so how do we do that?

Oh, we'll make nerds cool. I don't know. Well, look at Comic-Con. I mean, it's gigantic business. And what drives me crazy is whenever they're interviewing like some gorgeous, sexy actress or model who says, I was always the biggest nerd oh and i was like i don't see that it's con it's like the list of nerds like charlize theron and scarlett johansson i was such a nerd

oh god all i did was watch old bowery boys movies and and I was such a nerd. Yeah, because none of those models or actresses could ever get laid. I'll have you know there's no bigger Leo Gorce fan than Scarlett Johansson, Aaron. While we wait for you to explain... Cindy Crawford's a fan of Huntsville. Since we left it hanging out there, Aaron, and you're such a fan of the show, would you like to attempt to explain to Rain the Cesar Romero urban myth? God, what an honor.

What an honor to come on the podcast and get to be the one who explains Cesar Romero. I'm getting chills that I get to do this right now. But I have heard some Danny Kaye stories. No, Danny Thomas stories. Oh, yeah, okay, yes. There's Danny Kaye stories, too. Well, Danny Kaye, there's a Danny Kaye, too,

because Danny Kaye and Laurence Olivier used to fuck each other. According to Malcolm McDowell. According to the old big theater Olivier and Danny Kaye would fuck each other in the wings of the old

thing I think you're ad-libbing Gilbert during the opening of the Inspector General that's right Aaron go ahead I'd love to. You know, I'm only going to attempt this a little bit. I'm going to try and do a little of Gilbert explaining,

because I've, like I said, heard about it. Cesar Romero used to stand in warm water, pull his pants down to his ankles, while his boy toys would fling orange wedges at his bare ass some say it was tangerines i was thinking do they win a prize if it wedges in his ass crack because that was the idea maybe caesar romero he's the prize. Yes. Would you like to tell in my voice, tell Rain, the Danny Thomas. I think he knows that one.

But yeah, but just to hear it. Danny Thomas laid on the floor while women shit on his chest. But I heard it was he he laid under glass coffee, glass coffee. Yes. You're absolutely right. Yes. Which is the perfect segue.

Aaron. Yes. I know where you know, you know where I'm headed with this. Well, for the comedy central roast one year, I wrote a joke. I think it was for Carl Reiner where he said,

and I want to come here tonight to tell everybody the legend of Mary Tyler Moore in the glass coffee table. Knowing that only like 10 people, three of whom are here, would get that reference. But Carl Reiner was game. Isn't it true that Danny Thomas slept in the bed with his mother up through his teenage years because they were very poor? And then later he would make soup out of women's panties.

So it's kind of all connects. You know what I mean? It just gets better in a second. Oh, God. Rain, another recurring motif on this show is monkeys. Okay. And you had a monkey story from when you were living in Nicaragua.

Yeah. The neighbor's pet monkey, which Gilbert found fascinating when I told him about it. Yeah, I haven't read that part yet yet i haven't gotten up to that part no i know that when we were we lived in nicaragua as a child and i have a little section in the book where i talk about yeah that's great the critters of central america because there were all kinds of just weird creatures everywhere and i know the monkey would come into the kitchen but what did i say i can't remember what happened you said he would come into the kitchen. But what did I say? I can't remember what happened.

You said he would shit in the kitchen, which... Yes. Which reminds me of Dwight's kitchen on the beet farm. Yes. He would come in and shit in the kitchen, and then we'd have to chase him back out the window. Yes. There you go, Gil.

We had a parrot named Jose, and the reason that we know his name was Jose is because he said one word. Jose. Over and over again. That's all he would say. And I remember as a kid going in and going, Jose. And the parrot would go, Jose. Now, if you're listeners to this podcast, can either one of you tell the cunnilingus chimp story?

Oh, God. That's, yeah. Wait, who is that that would train? It wasn't Kay Dunaway. It's about Billy Wilder. That's right. It's the funeral for the chimp in the beginning of the movie, right? Yes.

Okay. So in the movie Sunset Boulevard, it opens with the funeral for the chip and billy wilder went went to glorious watson and said you're fucking the chip don't forget because beverly hills housewives would train chimps to perform cunnilingus on them this came from jackie the joke man martin i love how you have to legally back up who gets sued for this. And I think when the

chimps were eating them out, the music would be dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-d Roe v. Trail. Yeah. An Ernie Kovacs reference. Rain, back to the book. For the kids out there. For the kids. By the way, didn't the monkey ride the dogs back? That was also... I just... I can't remember.

We're obsessed. Chimpanzees. Aaron knows the book. If you know the news stories, chimpanzees are horrible creatures. Yeah. Didn't that one bite that woman's face off? Yes. They bit a woman's face off.

They bit a man's face off. They bit their toes and fingers off. And on the man, they mutilated his genitals. So those are, I'd rather be in a lion's cage than a chimp. Well, a lion is going to just end your life immediately. You know, a chimp is going to eat your dick off, and then you're going to have to live with that.

I'm with you 100%. Yeah. Aaron, talk about what you told me on the phone. We're going to bounce around here. You guys can see there's no pattern here. There's no rhyme or reason to this. No rhyme or reason to any of this. But Aaron, you were born in a place with famous comedy roots.

Oh, Jamestown, New York. Yeah. The hometown of Lucille Ball, which when I was growing up, I heard the same thing from every like old person in town. They would say Lucy was a slut and a booze runner during the prohibition. And she's not even from Jamestown. She's from Falconer.

And years later, just recently, I found out this was all started by my grandfather who was being a prick who started these rumors about lucy that were completely false no kidding i don't know what his beef with lucy was your grandfather have against i have no idea i don't know i don't know did you ever i mean i'm sure everyone's seen that statue at least on the internet oh my god oh it Oh, it's terrible. The greatest Lucy statue. He did that statue of Lucille Ball where she looks like a Neanderthal man. Yeah. No, they took it down.

They put up a pleasant one, but it was amazing. It looked like something out of a horror movie, like the statue they find in the beginning of The Exorcist or something. Have you been to the comedy museum up there, Aaron? I love it. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah it's amazing they got the great comedy festival now yeah i know i'm i'm proud of my hometown for that they it's really amazing have you performed there

gilbert uh i i filmed some stuff there oh god it's great And I know they have me there on their basement of like, not porn, but dirty material. Right, right. Rain, I just want to ask you about some stuff from the book, too. Speaking of family, since Aaron brought up his grandfather. And your dad is a very, very interesting character, kind of a Renaissance man, a painter, an author of science fiction books. And we were talking about nerd culture a beat agoz and Silent Running. That was your... Yeah. Your dad's work kind of inspired your creativity in certain ways.

You know, speaking of nerd culture, and Aaron and I talk about this, I started, like most kids do, reading comic books, but I switched over at an appropriate age out of the comic book world at like 12 or 13 i switched over to uh more heady stuff like science fiction and uh yeah my dad was writing science fiction and i still have my uh collection of science fiction from the 1970s and it's it's hundreds maybe four or five hundred uh uh books all from the 1970s paperbacks and and now zardoz that's the movie where sean connery uh is bald and wears a diaper that's

right yeah he has a metallic diaper yeah he's got a big um and it's a v-shaped, yeah, it's like a diaper with like lederhosen straps on it. So much chest hair peeking out. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. He's hair suit. But your dad, you paint a very interesting portrait of him. A guy who was into everything from Tchaikovsky to Brubeck. Yeah, my dad passed away almost a year ago, actually.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, thanks. And it was very sad. He died at 79 of heart failure. And but yeah, it was it was there were a lot of fucked up things about my family, as most people's families are. But he was very inspiring in terms of his love of the arts. So, you know, we would go to museums on art museums on weekends and he would talk about abstract art and he would be reading me my, actually my namesake rain actually comes from Rainer Maria Rilke, the German poet. And, uh,

but they didn't want to name me Rainer cause it's too close to Mount Rainier, which we lived by in Seattle. But, you know, read poetry and watch, you know, crazy old movies. He was he showed me the Bergman's. What's the dance with the seventh seal? Seventh seal. You know, when I was like inappropriately young, like, look, he's playing chess with death and I'm seven years old. And it was great. And he would blast opera music and paint abstract oils. And then at his desk job, which was at a sewer construction company, it was kind of slow. And he would be pounding away on an automatic typewriter and writing book after book after book

he only sold one called Tentacles of Dawn and but he had stacks of other ones called like Clarissa of Doom The Lotus Eaters I kind of I think I list the titles in the book

yes you do he sounds like a fascinating guy, and I'm glad he was around to see a lot of your success. Yeah, he was great. We were very close, and he was very proud of having a son that was in show business. He would wear Dwight office T-shirts and sweatshirts around so people would say,

oh, I like that show, and he'd be like, that's my son. So he would have – That's great. He'd walk around with my face on his chest. I love that he would walk into rooms full of strangers and say, who wants to come back to the house for a spiritual gathering? Yeah.

So your house was haunted. Yes. Oh, the house in Nicaragua. The house in Nicaragua that the monkey shat in the kitchen was haunted. And this is an absolutely true story. Like my dad, as crazy as that sounds, he was kind of a conservative guy. He was very grounded in a lot of ways. He wasn't like a crazy woohoo hippie.

And he told this story and he took it literally to his grave and he swore that we moved into the house and there were rumors that the house was haunted this was in a small town in nicaragua called blue fields and on the caribbean coast and it was an old victorian house who'd built in like the 1880s and uh every night he heard um this kind of Every night he heard this kind of, and he couldn't figure out what it was. And in the morning, he'd kind of noticed that the furniture would be in completely different places. And so he took a chalk and he drew little circles around the legs of the furniture and he'd hear the same noise at night and sure enough like every piece of furniture in the house had been moved either a couple inches or a couple of feet and um he's

like what do i do here and we were the reason we were there is that we were uh bahai we're members of the bahai faith and we were kind of uh pioneers a missionary type of work in the area. And so he read these Baha'i prayers for the dead and the departed. And it never happened again. Wow. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

Did you really look up to and admire seals and crops? Or was that just a joke in the book? Come on. look up to and admire seals and crofts or was that just a joke in the book come on are we here to to shit on seals and crofts hummingbird right summer breeze summer breeze no they were we looked up to them because they were the famous bahais so we were all behind we were you know you know besides playing the bassoon and being on Model United Nations and having pimples, we were also members of the Baha'i faith, which is very, that really outcast you. But Seals and Crofts were top 10 band in the 70s, and they were Baha'is. So we were like, oh, that's so cool. Absolutely. Yeah.

And Aaron, you worked with Don Rickles. Well, we met him at a party. Yeah. Did you work with him too? You know, I don't think I ever actually got to work with him. And I loved Rickles. I was obsessed with them, you know. And went to a birthday party one year.

It was comedian Jeff Ross, who you guys have had on, of course. And this was pretty close to the end of Don's life. And we go in. It was all old Hollywood. It was great. It was at Buddy Hackett's old house, you know, because Jeff loves that kind of comedy and everything. Oh, yeah. He knew.

He loved those guys. Yeah. And Jeff, you know what? Larry Flint was there. My old employer was there. Actually, it's the last time I saw him alive. But Jeff said to me, hey, look, Bob Newhart and Don Rickles are here. You want to meet him? And I was like, yeah, of course. I was so excited. We go over and he introduced them. Bob, Don, great to see you. Thanks for being here. This is my friend Aaron. And Bob Newhart is very friendly and you know how nice to meet you and don rickles is sitting there like like a corpse like completely zoned out just staring ahead mouth hanging open and he's barely like grunts when i say hello like huh and i'm like oh this

is sad like it's so sad to see him in this you know you want to and and jeff is talking bob you were so great on letterman don and then somebody comes up want to and and jeff is talking bob you were so great on letterman don and then somebody comes up talk to jeff and he says oh will you excuse me for just one minute and he gets up and turns around to talk to someone and don leaps up in his chair and he says to me who is this guy i don't know who he is who is this yo-yo he's acting like he knows us he doesn't even know us and jeff turns back around and don slumps in his chair like a corpse again and acts like he's out of it. And I fell out of my chair laughing. And Rickles sees this and he does not know me at all.

I'm a complete stranger. He does this bit all night. Every time someone comes up, a woman comes up and is like, just want to say what an honor it is to meet you. You're a legend. He goes, and then the second she turns around, he says to me, an honor it is to meet you. You're a legend. He goes, uh. And then the second she turns around, he says to me, oh, my God, did you see that one? Jesus, who let the elephant in here? I can't believe it.

This whole Don thing. And then when someone's looking, goes comatose again. Doing a bit for a stranger he's never met just to entertain himself. It was great. It reminded me of when you guys had Alan Swybell on. You told that that great story about was it henny youngman talking to the pigeon on the street when he doesn't know anyone's watching he sees a pigeon he says something like hey i got a letter for you there's any mail for me yes exactly these guys were just they just well i got i got a henny youngman story so oh my god or early um early 90s uh my friend uh chris found henny youngman's name in the new york phone book and uh threw a party and gave henny youngman 200 to perform at the party

and we were at an apartment in the upper west, like 1992, and Henny Youngman told like 20 minutes of one-liners. And then he wanted his $200, and then he left. Oh, my God. I don't remember any of the jokes, but, you know, all the standards. Take my wife, please, et cetera. I love that. I remember hearing Henny Youngman was booked in a gig, and when he finished, he was riding in the elevator and someone saw him in the elevator

and said, can you perform at our party we're having? And he got off the elevator. They gave him some money and he did two shows that night. That's fantastic. Can you guys name Henny Youngman's uh horror movie his 1970s splatter horror movie you know this one frank this is a good trivia question for you directed by herschel

gordon lewis i can't believe you've stumped these two i can't believe it it's called the gore we love herschel gordon lewis it's called the gore gore. And Henny Youngman performs in a club. Yeah. Yeah, he's the act in the club where the murderer is attacking the Gore Gore Girls. I had no idea. I did see that movie. And then someone stopped him in the elevator and they said, hey, we're shooting the Return of the Creature from the Black Lagoon in the other studio will you come be in that one sure 200 bucks i'll do it we will

return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor which leads me to a question another segue mikey frank i love rain from the office of course but if this doesn't come up on the show i would love to hear his thoughts on house of a thousand corpses working with rob zombie or the late great karen black or anything about transfer being transformed into a mermaid even uh yeah that's that was awesome this is a crazy business to be in uh when i moved to la from new york i've been doing theater in new york for a long time moved to LA from New York. I've been doing theater in New York for a long time. I moved to LA in 99 with a comedy show. And one of the first auditions,

I did a couple of small parts. I was in Galaxy Quest and Almost Famous and some small parts. But my next role was like, you have an audition for a horror movie being directed by Rob Zombie. And I went into this dingy little office in the valley. I put myself on tape, you know.

And then you have a callback. And I met with Rob. And Chris Hardwick was my co-star in that. And I got cast in the lead in this you know kind of classic you know purposefully b movie horror movie and uh in which i sid haig was in it karen black oh sid hey gil yeah yeah love him he's so great and um uh yeah and karen black was in it. I remember, you know, I loved Karen Black as a kid. And I was like, I love your work. And she's like, what do you love?

And I was like, well, Five Easy Pieces. And she's like, that was Jack's movie. What did you like about me in that movie? I was like, well, you were just great. You were great. She's like, like what? What scene? What did I do that was great?

I was like, I don't remember. I was like, you just remember Jack. And I was like, okay. But she was very nice. She was great. I mean, that was not, that was atypical of her. She was kind of having fun. You couldn't call up Trilogy of Terror in a hurry.

Right. Trilogy of Terror. Oh, that's with those little creatures. With the knives. Little voodoo creature. On the subject of nerd culture, and we're talking about Hanny Youngman, I'm interested in you guys both kind of discovering comedy. And I think in similar ways.

I think, Rainn, you talk in the book about memorizing Python sketches. You've got a great line. Everyone successful in comedy has a secret comedy dork life in adolescence, which I think is true. Aaron, same thing for you. Discovering comedy albums, Carlin, Steve Martin, SNL. Yeah, I was thinking about it when you were talking about your dad bringing you to Seventh Seal.

My dad introduced me to so much great shit then. Monty Python, he loved on PBS, Saturday Night Live. And he woke, you talk about Seven Seal, when I was around seven years old, you know, you didn't have VCRs yet even. And he woke me up in the middle of the night to watch the original Frankenstein because it was being aired on New York television. And he knew, like, you might not ever get to see this again. You know, that's the way it was then. So there weren't DVDs or VHS. Yeah.

That's a good dad. Yeah. There wasn't even cable. There were four channels. So who knows when they're going to show Frankenstein, you know? So, so he introduced me to,

yes, all the comedy records and, and SCTV was a huge one for me. And I remember seeing Gilbert on Letterman for the first time doing the ben gazar a bit and that uh that boy of mine and i think i brought this up to you frank the other thing my dad had he was a hippie he had national lampoon a subscription i started reading that way inappropriately young and i i always remember a gilbert article in an old issue of National Lampoon, a hundred excuses to give if you can't get an erection. Do you remember that?

I do. And I maybe can remember three. I can remember one, the pump don't work because the vandal took the handle. That's right. That's one of them that I remember. That's from Bob Dylan. And another one was,

I've had many erections when I walked among the living. I feel like there's such camaraderie here. I feel like Aaron and Gilbert, you guys should do cocaine and fuck each other. And I'll do my Marlon Brando imitation. And you can do your Richard Pryor. Mudbone. Rain, same thing for you.

Same kind of discovery. You and your friend John that discovered comedy albums together and would do all the Python skits. Yeah. You know, it was the same. It was George. It was Richard Pryor, George Carlin albums.

And Saturday Night Live, you know, in those early years, 78, you know, 79. And, and just,

yeah, Buck Henry and just odd comedians you'd never heard of from really New York underground. And you were seeing like Tom Waits and you'd never heard of from really New York underground. And you were seeing like Tom Waits and Ricky Lee Jones before they were ever on the radio. Yeah. And we would just redo the sketches as we remembered them. Panasonic tape recorder and when it was on even if it was on like 1 a.m on public television I would record an audio cassette tape of like of sketches and I would listen to them over and over again I would memorize them I would write them out in notebooks um so but yeah but I think that

comedy nerds do that that that there's a when you discover it it, oh, there's this whole world. And you always hear about comics talk about memorizing entire halves of comedy albums or radio shows. Oh, I think we could all do Python bits, chapter and verse, couldn't we, Aaron? Sure. And the stuff from Let's Get Small, too, the Steve Martin album. Oh, yeah. couldn't we aaron sure and and the stuff and the stuff from let's get small too the steve martin album oh yeah i remember i used to memorize whole passages of mark's brothers films oh yeah yeah yeah that was another one yeah that was a favorite of my dad too my dad my dad turned me

on to mark's brothers as well absolutely yeah rain you also cite keaton and peter sellers too in the book i thought this was interesting which i I was talking about with Gilbert. One thing I will say, and Jerry Lewis I mentioned in there. I loved Jerry Lewis. I loved Jerry Lewis. I know it's not common or popular. Anything he did, I thought he was the best. You're talking about Jerry with Dean or Jerry solo, mostly all of it. I didn't, it didn't matter to me. He just delighted me to no end. Me too. I grew up on Jerry Lewis. And the funny thing about it is I love the crazy, classic, crazy Jerry Lewis. And I also loved when he was like just himself this egotistical it always was heartbroken heartbreaking to me to watch the jerry lewis telethon and he was corpulent and chain smoking and it's like wait yeah, wait, he's not funny anymore. And he would just go on and on

and kind of chronic windbaggery. And it really ruined my idol. I imagine that must be like Dwight fans listening to me right now. Jerry would pull out the giant lighter. Remember, Gil? Oh, yes, yes. And put the glass, put the drinking glass in his mouth and throw the

cigarette in the air and catch it in his mouth was the other thing and but he i i remember one time when i was on saturday night uh me and piscopo found out he was going to be on live at five so he went over there and he was everything you wanted jerry lewis to be he was like doing crazy knocking stuff on the ground laughing doing crazy shit and then he goes on camera and like the jaw tightens up you know, it's like the filmmaker Jerry. The snaced. Yeah. Martin Short always said the key to imitating late Jerry was to be pretending to be sucking on a lozenge.

An imaginary lozenge. That gives you that serious, serious Jerry. Did you meet Jerry at any point in your travels? Either of you? God, no. No. No. Gilbert was fortunate.

He did not encounter him. I met him a couple of times, and people like that in the business where you have to preface it with, well, he was always nice to me, meaning I know he's an asshole. Yeah. There's that great Hollywood reporter interview with him towards the end of his life.

You can YouTube it where he just busts the interviewer's balls where the guy is like, of all your films, could you tell me your absolute favorite? No. Next question. Yes. The telethon. You favorite? No. Next question. Yes. The telethon. You love doing the telethon. Yeah.

Next question. Yeah, and he says, did you ever think of retiring? And he goes, why? And it's scary because you see that other side of Jerry Lewis. Yes. How bad did you ever want to see The Day the Clown Cried? Do you know about that? His Nazi movie?

Yeah. No, the script's available. And now there's clips on YouTube, too. Yeah, I've seen some clips, but never saw the whole thing. How did it get out of the vault? I thought it was like in a vault or something. Yeah, I don't know. How did it get out of the vault? I thought it was like in a vault or something. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Speaking of vaults, whatever happened to all of J.D. Salinger's books he was supposed to have written? He died a long time ago. I'm waiting for some more Salinger here. It's a good question. I don't know. Gilbert and I were tickled by this, too, on the subject of classic comedians. You playing Alvy Singer early in your career. Terrible. Ter terrible career choice so i went to acting school at nyu it's not much of a story i'll see if i can gussy it up a little bit maybe i can bring a a shitting monkey into it but um

please do but or tell us about pacino, too, if you want. Yeah. I can do that. That's good. That's good. So when you go to a fancy acting school in New York, there's these presentations you do at the end of the year for all the agents and casting directors and producers in the city. And all this pressure is put on you. And I couldn't find any scenes to do for this i was i know this is going to sound terribly pretentious but because i was playing the dane i was playing hamlet at the time sorry and um uh so i was a huge woody allen fan Allen fan in my comedy nerddom, of course. So I did a scene from Annie Hall, which was just the worst thing to do.

Most because, you know, it's 80 percent, 85 percent Jewish audience who revere Woody Allen. And here's this nerdy, gawky, six foot two suburban Seattle kid doing a terrible Woody Allen impersonation. I didn't get a single call. I didn't get a single nibble. No agent wanted to meet with me. I completely bombed and somehow or other kind of salvaged a career out of it. Do you remember the scene you did, by chance? Yeah, there's a spider in your

bathroom the size of a Buick. Oh, very good. Coming over to kill the spider scene. Can you do it in character? Right now? Yes. I'm not a trained monkey. But I will shit in the kitchen. I don't know. I don't remember how to do it. I can't do that.

What about doing Salome? Because you know what? Woody Allen is cancelled. And you know what? How dare you even bring that up? Exactly. I'm so offended. What about Salome with Pacino? That was fascinating. Oh my god. That was one of the great... So Pacino kept

reviving this production of Salome. He was obsessed with the play Salome by Oscar Wilde, which is not a very good play. And it's in these rhyming couplets and it's about the, you know, Salome seducing and chopping up the head of John the Baptist. And there was this little subplot in the beginning of the play with this page and this guard who love each other. And I played the page in a way too skimpy outfit, like kind of revealing everything about my gawky body. And then once I had my little love scene with this guard, I with a literally holding an urn on my knees in the corner and then pacino did the whole play so it's an hour and a half play so it's my my little scene and then watching pacino work for you know the next 70 80 minutes and i'm just there

looking up sideways out of my eyes of watching al pacino in this terrible play. And he's playing like, I don't know. How do you do Pacino? I keep going to Brando. It's not that dissonant. I guess, you know, Pacino, you go to the. But he would be like, Salome, I will give you peacocks. I will give you gold. Because he was trying to seduce this temptress Salome. Like, I will give you gold, because he was trying to seduce this temptress Salome.

Like, I will give you, and we would always joke, like, I will give you Knicks tickets. But what was amazing about him is that people were paying $90 a ticket to go see this pretty mediocre production. And there were nights he was on fire. And there were nights he was on fire. And there were nights he just blew the roof off the place and he gave the performance. And there would be standing ovations. There would be other nights he would so completely phone it in that you could barely hear him.

I would be on the stage, I could barely hear him. And I don't know what the hell he was thinking or doing. He was just like rehearsing in front of an audience, I think, essentially. And I always just remember feeling so bad, like, God, looking out at the audience, God, all those people paid $90 to watch this terrible Pacino dressed biblically.

It's all in the biblical times. That's fascinating that his performance would run the gamut. I am not exaggerating. From a standing ovation to not even being there. I'm really not exaggerating at all i was exaggerating about the monkey stuff but the but you know it was it was a light out performance of the century to like just dreadful boring dreck there must have been a lot of arguments with

people where somebody would say, I saw Pacino. He was incredible. You got to go see him. Exactly. By the way, have you heard Gilbert do Hervé Villachez in Scent of a Woman? Oh, please. Because you haven't lived.

Ah, your name is Daphne. I could tell that from the southern accent. And you're wearing Chanel No. 5. Hoorah! Oh, my God. You're right. You haven't lived until you've heard that. That's fantastic.

How the hell did you guys meet in the first place? And, Aaron, does this connect to the – is this the Spirit Awards and the Philip Seymour Hoffman story? That was the first time Rainn and I ever worked together. After, you know, meeting through comedy world contacts and all that kind of stuff and having mutual friends. contacts and all that kind of stuff and having mutual friends. And, uh, and I got asked to host the, uh,

independent spirit awards, um, which, uh, I haven't seen it recently, but it's a, it was cool award show back in its day. It was really edgy and all the stars would be there.

It was the night before the Oscars or the day before the Oscars. um, and, uh, they kind of let you do whatever the hell you wanted to do. And I was like, shit, I'm going, okay, this is great, but I need a writer. Oh, Aaron has done – he did the Kid Rocks Christmas special.

Get him. And he said, are you hot with Fernando Lamas? Lorenzo. Lorenzo Lamas. Okay, whatever, Lamas. And, yeah, so we worked together on that award show. It was really fun. And I was – it really – not many people saw it, but to my grave,

I will take that that was one of the better things I've ever been involved with. Yeah. We had Dennis Hopper on it. We had Ed Begley Jr. We did an opening film where Dennis Hopper was going to teach Rain to be an independent film star. So he dressed up Rain in hooker clothes and a wig. And I was John who stood on the corner and Dennis Hopper pimped Rain out to me.

And I vomited up the imaginary semen. After blowing me. This is the opening of this award show. This is a hip award show. the imaginary semen. After blowing me. Yeah. This is the opening of this award show. This is a hip award show. Then Dennis Hopper took a condom full of heroin and stuffed it down Rain's throat to make him a drug mule.

And the best part, I don't know if you remember this, Rain, we would pitch these things to Hopper, and then you're going to take a condom full of heroin, and Dennis Hopper would go, whoa, that's pretty wild, but okay. And I'm like, you're gonna take a conan full of heroin and dennis hopper would go whoa that's pretty wild but okay and i'm like you're dennis hopper i know you've done all this come on and then do you remember that we had lunch at dennis hopper's house um oh yeah in venice yeah and he took us over and he had his art collection was just like jaw-dropping like

basquiats and yeah andreons and, and it was like a museum. Yeah, it was fun. And the, and the story I was telling you, Frank was that I had a joke in the opening monologue where rain goes, um, wow, look at this crowd,

independent film stars, Steve Buscemi, uh, Philip Seymour Hoffman. And then rain stops and he goes, oh, it's weird to be the best looking guy in the room. And then there's like a laugh. And then,

and then I told rain to turn away like Rickles and go, what's Phil Hoffman doing? Is he coming at me? Anyway, so Rain does this. And when Philip Seymour Hoffman went up to accept his award, he said, I'm going to go kick the shit out of Rain Wilson. That was like his good night. So then all night, Rain and I kept writing insults of philip seymour

hoffman too and and we didn't have a close for the show so i said to rain like what if you said ladies and gentlemen good night philip seymour hoffman prepare to die and you jump off the stage and you start beating him up and rain said well if you ask him he's like i'm not gonna ask him if you go ask phil hoffman if he'll do this so i have to go interrupt him in the middle of his dinner and say mr hoffman big fan uh really admire he's sitting like next to a net danay yes and and brad pitt and i'm like would it be okay if rain jumps off stage and starts beating you up at the end of the show and he and he said to me tell rain as long as he comes for real as long as he doesn't like fake it as long as he lays ready to fight.

And I said, okay. And that was the end of the show, was Rain jumping into this award show crowd, knocking over tables, wrestling Phillips. It was so great. He was so. And of course, he pinned me right away. He was pretty big back then. And then I read that he had been on the high school wrestling team. Another nerd.

that he had been on the high school wrestling team. Another nerd. And Aaron, you said that when you used to, when you'd write on the Comedy Central Roasts, what would happen when you came up with a really completely tasteless joke? It would go to you. That's what would happen. You were my absolute favorite right for it because just tell it he'll do it well there's a couple reasons one is i'd go okay he'll say

anything the other he'll make jokes more obscene you'll come and he'll make them worse than they were and i knew if i wrote a joke comparing kathy griffin the swamp thing you would know who swamp thing was i wouldn't have to explain the nerdy reference so you were the absolute most fun to write for no question yeah it's like when they come up with a joke and every other person on the show said, this is a joke that'll destroy my career. Yes, this is hurtful. I would go, oh, I'll do it. Gilbert, you're like the kid in school that eats the paste.

Yes. No self-control, no filter. What is the story, Aaron, about the Pam Anderson roast and Bea Arthur? Oh, God. Well, here's the funny thing about being like a nerdy comedy writer working on a show like family guy people really do come and they do say to go like oh you guys must be high all day to come up with that stuff right no one's high and in the family

guy writers room it's a bunch of nerds and but the one time in my entire entertainment industry career that i ever did use a substance at work was all the rehearsals for the pam anderson roast were done they were finished and my co-head writer a very talented guy ray james he said hey the rehearsals are done it's all done james amazing he said, let's smoke some pot. We've got nothing else to do. And I said, okay, sure. So we smoked pot, got high. We're sitting in the empty offices playing guitar.

And suddenly the phone rings, and it was like an emergency call from the producer. Bea Arthur has arrived, and she wants to unexpectedly, you know, rehearse her stuff and there was a really obscene anal sex joke that they wanted me to pitch her on the spot they were afraid to send it to her but they said you have to go tell her this joke where you read a section from pam anderson's book about how to have anal sex and pam anderson says in there it's like holding in a fart and And the joke is that, and the joke is that B Arthur is supposed to say, I wonder what that feels like. I've never done it. I've never held in a fart. Okay. So I'm brought, I'm brought to this soundstage high flying high and brought over to be, this is B Arthur and she's a foot taller than me and i

have to pitch this whole thing i get to the punch line i've never done that held in a fart and she looked at me and she went oh no and stormed away and i was to her credit the next night this is the best part. She did the joke. She went ahead and did the joke. It was fantastic. So God love Bea Arthur. What a trooper. Wow. Yeah. I think that was the roast.

Was that the same roast where Jeff did that infamous line? Oh, my God. Where Courtney Love got up and attacked him. Right. Yeah. He said, how does Courtney Love look worse than Kurt Cobain today? Yeah. She's the girl next door.

She got right up and charged him. She's the girl next door if you live next door to a methadone clinic. Did you guys watch those? We had Gabe Kaplan here a couple of weeks ago, and he was a fixture on the old Dean Martin roasts. Oh, my God. I know you guys, I know, Rainn, you talked about early in your life watching those Carson monologues, appointment television. Did you guys watch those roasts in the old days?

Those stilted, badly executed roasts? I never did, but I have seen those infomercials where they – Oh, yeah. Have you seen the infomercials where they're plugging the DVDs of the Dean Martin roasts? But they go... You feel like you're watching them because they just go on and on and on, so you feel like, oh, I've got...

You're an Orson Welles guy, and he's all over those things. He is. Who's that guy? Who's that great comedian who pretended to be drunk better than anyone? Foster Brooks. He was a genius. yeah yeah he was great he was amazing on those roasts though they would have like you know gary coleman roasting orson welles and you go like what's what is the connection

yeah and they said on those roasts like everybody they would be shooting like one person one week and the next person like the next they weren't together yeah they would just cut together the reaction shots of of of johnny carson doing a spit take they'd make yeah they'd make phyllis sit diller sit there for six hours just doing reaction shots and then cut them all. No one was in the room together at the same time. Gabe told us they weren't in the room together. Often. Often no one was in the room.

Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. That's amazing. Some jokes from the Comedy Central roast that Gilbert did and I know you said to me Aaron that you can't remember it so many years later you can't remember who wrote what all the time sure

but Gilbert's bit the Bob Saget joke I saw his special in high def because you have to be either high or def to enjoy it that's a wonderful joke that's an amazing joke and the leprechaun bit with Brad Garrett and Mario.

Do you remember giving Gilbert anything specific? Well, sure. Other than the one we can't talk about? Absolutely. I won't bring that up. I won't bring that up. Although it is my favorite. It is my proudest, but I won't bring it up because we all want to work in this industry.

but I won't bring it up because we all want to work in this industry. I do remember one I gave that I was like, talk about something no one else would do. It was Jane Lynch from Glee hosting the Roast of Roseanne. And she comes up, she did Gilbert Gottfried, everyone. And Gilbert comes up and it was some long thing I wrote where it was like, I hope you can hear the sound of my voice. So many pubic hairs have flown from between the teeth of Jane Lynch that they've covered the mic and muffled the sound. It was so obscene and awful and went on for five minutes.

And he did the whole thing. And it blew my mind. You know what he said? He said, between every commercial break, they have to hose down the front row of people here because they're covered in pubic hairs. They've shot from her mouth with such velocity. Yes, and then he says, so I apologize if my voice is,

if you'll allow me to say, muffled. Oh, man. And quickly, we'll move past the roast, but this is good stuff. The Shatner-Betty White interaction? Oh, God, that was great. You know, that is actually, speaking of me having to go up to an elder comedic genius woman and pitch something awful. The same thing happened with Betty White. And that exchange is actually on video. It's an extra on the Shatner roast DVD where I had to go pitch a joke to Betty where I say, hey, Betty, here's the joke.

You say, you know, I actually had sex with William Shatner once. Oh, it was unbelievable. You should have seen him red in the face, wheezing. And finally, I popped his dick out of my mouth and said, Bill, they're about to start the roast. You know, hurry up. So I pitched this to her. I pitched this to her. And without a beat, she looks at me and says, Honey, I never talk with my mouth full. And she just changed the joke.

She said, He's got to be on top of me, not his dick in my mouth. And I said, Okay, great. So she did the joke. She's a great – she laughed at herself. Oh, she was amazing. Yeah, that was a super fun one. Yeah, that was great. I told you that when I wrote up the Friars in new york about her that joy did and she loved it so

much betty white's so old and her vagina is so old and dry there are still jews wandering in it she she loved it and made joy tell her that joke over and over again lisa lampinelli had that amazing joke about betty at that rose where she said she's so old on her first game show the prize was fire that's a great joke that's a great joke those were fun times yeah i'm glad gilbert was uh was the right muse for you oh always always just you know always out of the park. I was telling Aaron when we were turning the mics on before,

watching Carl Reiner, of all people, venerable, respected elder statesman Carl Reiner, is sitting there reacting as Gilbert is talking about Joan Rivers spreading open her legs and being blinded by a flurry of bats. And it's just, you've got to go look at his face. It looks like he got hit with a wiffle ball bat. He wrote the Dick Van Dyke show. Yeah, the man who wrote the Dick Van Dyke show.

And then there was another joke in the Joan Rivers one. That Joan Rivers is so old that her breasts Oh, that was Cloris Leachman. Oh, Cloris Leachman. Cloris Leachman's so old, her breasts are marked colored and white

only. Right. And then you ad-libbed a Nipsey Russell line on top of that. Yes. And I said, and to watch Nipsey Russell get chased away from our press was a shameful time in this country's history. I think we can use some of this material. Robin A. says, to me, it looked like Rain was really enjoying himself playing

Harry Mudd. Is there any chance he might return to one of the Star Trek shows? And here's a weird one. What is the most Harry Mudd thing Rain has done in real life? What? Yeah. Yeah, so in the reboot,

reimagining of this new kind of woke Star Trek, I played Harry Mudd, who was one of my favorite characters, in a couple episodes, and it was great. It was super fun. I love Trek, and to play that kind of reimagined classic character from the original series was... Roger C. Carmel's old character. That's right.

Yeah. Roger C. Carmel. And it was amazing. It was great. And yeah, I pitched him. I was like, hey, bring me back. I think Harry Mudd should have a spinoff or be on another show or something like that. And they just, they didn't nibble.

So I don't know. I don't know what to say. But I'd love to do more uh sam weisberg says rain i wanted your true opinion of the longmont potion castle duck oh co-produced and appeared in uh yeah i i didn't think it was very good. Yeah. But I just want to... Do you guys know Longmont Potion Castle? We do not. So he is like... How do I say it? He's like the

Salvador Dali of prank calling. Oh, wow. And he lives in Colorado and he does just really insane crank calls. And he never goes for like the obvious laugh, which he could do kind of like,

what are they called? The jerky boys or something like that. Yeah. But he plays with the sound and he just torments people. And he has multiple calls of him calling Alex Trebek. Somehow he got Alex Trebek's number. And Dave Koechner,

he was calling him for a while. And I was a huge fan of Longmont Potion Castle, and I've kind of heard everything he did. So I was happy to support a documentary on him, but I don't think it turned out very well. But I just love more people to learn about him. Gil, we don't even know. We're huge fans of prank calls. We don't even know. We're huge fans of prank calls. We don't even know about this person. Yeah, listen to The Clown Motel as a starting one. And there's one about millipedes.

If you look at the millipedes one, he'd always call people like, yeah, we got a delivery down at the dock. We got to create 1,200 millipedes from the Philippines. We need you to pay for them. $379. And he just the Philippines are there. We need you to sign. We need you to pay for them. $379. And he just takes it from there.

What's his name? Longmont Potion Castle? Yeah. What a great name. Talk about Dark Air with Terry Carnation, which you guys created together. Jesus Christ. We're an hour and a half into this thing. Oh, my God.

Well, we had to tell a bunch of jokes that will end my career being repeated in 2021. The fact that I took credit for them. So, yeah. So, Aaron and I in our comedy nerddom were really huge fans of Steve Coogan and Alan Partridge and the Alan Partridge character. in Alan Partridge and the Alan Partridge character. And I just love that idea of like someone has a character that they, you know, they have their acting career, but they kind of continually dip back into the well of playing a, you know, an interesting comedic character. It almost becomes their alter ego.

And so we spent years talking about it. I mean, we were talking about it in 2015, 16. And, you know know what would that be like to create something similar to that and then we came up with the name Terry carnation and then we knew he wanted him to be kind of in the seedier elements of Hollywood you know living off of Hollywood Boulevard over in like Franklin back when it was more rundown I, it's kind of nicer now. And we talked about him maybe being a horror writer. Or like a B-movie producer or writer.

Yeah, yeah. Horror movies. And then we were talking about Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM. And we were both fans of that. Aaron's a true nerd fan and has listened to hundreds of hours of it. But the Paranormal AM Radio Late Night Calling Show. And we thought, oh, that would be such a great milieu for Terry to be in. He could also tangentially be part of Hollywood.

So it just kind of evolved into this character and this situation. I had this idea that his wife has died, but on his first on his return back to the radio, the voice of his dead wife calls into his paranormal call in show. And what you know, what kind of trail of dominoes with that, you know, set into motion. And and so we were like, should we do it as a TV show? Should we you know, how should we do this? And then we landed on trying it out as a podcast to kind of, because I didn't really know what the character was, I helped find the character and explore the world

and try something both really new, because it's not really done much, but it's also very old right aaron yeah because i'm like a obsessive old-time radio fan and and it's funny and i've seen a lot of people online writing about terry carnation being this scripted podcast i didn't even think of it at the time like oh this is like the old radio stuff i'm obsessed with, but I'm like an obsessive Jack Benny fan and love all the old radio stuff. So it was a really cool experience for us to do this entire thing in shutdown,

recording from people's closets and stuff like that. Like never got anyone together in the same room and got all these great comedy people involved in it. Yeah, yeah. A lot of, we had- Kevin Smith and Thomas Lennon. Yeah. And we had Nathan Fillion was on it.

Nathan Fillion. Yeah. Sam Neill. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. It's very good.

It is, as you say, Aaron. It is kind of theater of the mind. Yeah. Very much so. I got Susan Sarandon to do the credits read, to read the credits. Yes. It's great. This is Academy Award winning actress Susan Sarandon. This episode is entitled blah, blah, blah, blah.

So-and-so was the producer. So-and-so played the part. And then she started saying things like, how many of these do I have to do? That I don't know if it was scripted or not or if she was just. Yeah, it was great. But yeah, so we did 15 episodes. You're in it as the shrink. I'm Dr. Norman was great. That's hilarious. Yeah, so we did 15 episodes. And Aaron, you're in it as the shrink. I'm Dr. Norman Kesden.

That's right. Which is only because we didn't want to pay actors. Because we're cheap. I just remembered. You've done 15 and you're going to keep doing them? I don't know. Season two is unclear. You know, I'm not sure if we kind of pitch it as a TV show or a special or a movie or go do another season of the pod. It was it ended up being way more work than either of us thought it was going to be.

We thought, oh, how hard can it be? We'll outline a bunch of episodes. We'll get friends to write them, pay them a little bit. Then we get on a Zoom. Everyone records their stuff. We edit it together, boom, you're done. But sounds easier than

the reality was really hard. Yeah, it was. It's a shitload of work. It's been very difficult to record under lockdown. I just remembered, there was a joke, I think Comedy Central cut it out of the roast, that

Pamela Anderson's vagina is so stretched out, it moves around like those inflatable men at the car lot. That one got cut, eh? That's over the line. Oh, now that. Bats can fly out of Joan Rivers, but we're cutting that. That's fantastic. Rain, I want to sing the praises of the rocker.

Okay. That's it? We're done with the podcast? That's what we're here to do. That's it. We just moved on. We went to Pamela Anderson's vagina, and now we're going to the rocker. That's it. We just moved on. We went to Pamela Anderson's vagina, and now we're going to the rocker.

That's it. Let's go, Aaron. I'm out of here. We don't do segues on this show. Apparently not. Yeah. So listen to Dark Air of Terry Carnation if you like comedy, old-fashioned radio shows, scripted Jack Benny-like comedy,

gussied up in the world of Coast to Coast AM and Art Bell. Thank you. That's my pitch. Now, what was your question, Frank? The Rock. I wanted to ask about Hesher and the nice things that were said about you by some critics. I think it was Roger Ebert paid you a very nice compliment comparing you to

Bill Murray and Christopher Walken. Wow. That's nice. It's a great, dark, sad performance. Thank you. Thank you. I thought you were asking about The Rocker, though. I just was jumping around, but I also want to ask about The Rocker.

Okay, yeah. I have done some magnificent work of scintillating drama in uh dozens of movies that no one has seen no one has seen like more people have seen an outtake of like dwight sneezing on youtube that have seen all of the other films have done collectively so well you would think The Rocker is a film that's going to be, if it's not already, being re-evaluated. I mean, these are films that pick up audiences as the years go by. They become more popular. Yeah.

I mean, people I know hold that movie with a soft spot in their heart. I mean, I think it's hard to kind of find. Yes, they should. I don't know where they... But I thought it was a terrific little film. You know, it was a terrific little film, you know? It was, I write about it in my book

about how devastating it was because it totally bombed at the box office. I mean, big time bomb. And, it was on 2,000 theaters and it came in 12th

on its opening weekend. It was, like, really, really bad. And, but, I will say say the critics were just merciless with it because they thought we were trying to do school of rock because there was an older

there was an older character and there were younger characters and they were making rock and roll music beyond that there was no real similarity. That's a sweet movie with a good message that you're never too old to give up on your dream. Yeah, exactly. It's a fun family comedy. And it's got a great cast. And Pete Best shows up. That's right. Yeah. Pete Best. Did you talk to him? Yeah, I hung out with Pete Best for a whole day. And I think his life was pretty sad. I mean, he tours around with the Pete Best Orchestra.

But I think then he started getting residuals because they did all these re-releases of early Beatles stuff, like on companion discs and stuff like that. I think all of a sudden he started really getting paid and feeling much better, which was a good outcome there. But yeah, very nice gentleman. And what a pleasure. Because that's a strange life and a strange career. Did he ever talk about being fired? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we interviewed him about it.

And he's very open to talking about it, you know. And I don't remember. He's just very, he's like, yeah, it's unfortunate. You know, we all played together, and the manager didn't think that I fit in with the band and wanted me fired. And then I was let go. Because you hear different stories. You hear conflicting stories that John was threatened by his way with women or that he wasn't a good enough drummer. There have been so many versions of that over the years.

It's hard to get at the truth. Here's one for you, Aaron, quickly from another listener, Andrew LaPosha. To Aaron's knowledge, has anyone ever declined a Comedy Central roast? Oh, God, yes. That happens. They have to try 15 people to get someone to foolishly sign on for that. Yeah. Yes.

I know. I mean. I wouldn't do it. I mean, I'm not famous enough to do it, but I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Why would I sign up for people making jokes about my big head and my weird face? Yeah. Very little payoff.

Yes. And I sit there and listen. uh yeah very little payoff yes like i just and i sit there and listen i was like i i i it was called the rain wilson comedy roast was my high school that was but anyways you said what were you saying god i remember for my bachelor party like comedians going we're having a roast of you aaron because you're the roast guy and i was like oh great and i sat there for two hours and i hated it i was like this is hurting my feelings they're they're mean two hours well it wasn't two hours but it was long oh god it was brutal so no i don't know why anyone ever agrees but sure i mean one one person i remember who it looked like it was gonna happen for uh a couple days and they were freaking out they

were so excited and it all fell apart was kanye west i remember i remember kanye agreed to it or i think for a minute and then it didn't happen i remember willie nelson didn't happen which was a big disappointment um that would have been good yeah yeah yeah no wow sam jackson he's one um what about trump well they did it. Trump agreed, yeah. Yeah. Trump agreed. Trump was one of my favorite roasts, I got to say, because it was in New York and the audience was crazy.

Gilbert was there. The audience was really rowdy, and the reality TV star The Situation from Jersey Shore got up and did a set and got booed off the stage. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. Which would never happen in LA.

Like LA crowds are so polite and in New York, they just went berserk. So I gotta say that was, that was really fun. I got one question about Dwight, uh, rain, which is,

it's interesting to, uh, an acting teacher of yours told you that he thought you should that you would make hay in your career playing misfits and outsiders. And you took that advice to heart. And also, it's very interesting the parts you didn't get where the dominoes fell and led to Dwight. You didn't get the part in Arrested Development. Yeah, Will Arnett's part. Yeah, and we had Richard Benjamin here last week, and he was talking about,

he did a series called He and She with his wife, and that show was quickly canceled, and he was talking about how if that show had caught on and he became a TV star, he may not have had a movie career. So it's very interesting the things that don't happen. But those stories happen so much in Hollywood

and I guess in life too. You know, I'm so elite and out of touch with real life that I wouldn't know how that works in the outside world.

But like, you know, my part on Six Feet Under, I got to do 13 episodes of this really amazing character. That was the fifth character I auditioned for. So I was auditioning for gay choir member number three

and dead body number four and funeral mortuary attendant number two and all these small, tiny little roles. And I kept not getting cast. I really just wanted to be on the show. I loved the show. It was on HBO, which wanted to be on the show. I loved the show. It was on HBO and, which was blowing up at the time. And, um, and then I saw it on the, on the breakdown lying on the table. I saw on the character description of Arthur and I was like, oh my God, I could totally

do that character. Uh, it was a Peter Sellers, like odd alienated mortician. And so I asked the casting director, I just, I, you know I you know I summoned the courage and I was like do you think I could audition for that and I got permission and then that's the part I got so had I gotten gay choir member number three you know with with three lines um I never would have gotten to play Arthur Martin which led to Dwight right because Greg Daniels was a fan of Six Feet Under yeah and he'd watched all watched all the episodes of it. You know, I know awards aren't everything, and I know awards are mostly meaningless. And Aaron, as a guy who's written award shows, would probably agree.

But watching the show all these years, and the most watched show under lockdown, by the way, The Office, how you and Carell were not given awards for your performances is – it's criminal. Yeah. Well, you know, Jeremy Piven has his statues, and we honor him. And his incredible work as Ari Gold, which stands the test of time. incredible work as Ari Gold, which stands the test of time. I say to my wife, I've never seen actors,

I mean, you know, commitment. I've never seen actors commit to a piece the way you and Carell commit. Oh, that's very nice, Frank. Giving birth to the watermelon, the Mussolini speech, there's so many moments. I'm sure people talk about the scene where you beat yourself up. Sure. In many moments. I'm sure people talk about the scene where you beat yourself up.

Sure. In the office. I mean, the commitment and also the range of those characters compared to, not to disparage Alec Baldwin on 30 Rock, but the range and the depth of Michael Scott and Dwight and those performances. Anyway, I had to get that out. Yeah. Well, thank you.

That's very kind. Thanks. It's also interesting, too, how much luck is involved in a show staying on the air, that Kevin Reilly and Bob Wright's son were both pivotal people in keeping the office on the air, much the way an executive named Rick Ludwin was a fan of Seinfeld and shepherded that and protected it from the network. It's very interesting how these things happen. Yeah. Yeah.

How much luck is involved? Bob Wright was the chairman of General Electric, which had just bought – isn't that funny? Their stock is like $3.81, General Electric. But they bought NBC at the time, and we were on the verge of getting canceled. And Bob Wright's son was just going to college, and he watched all the shows, and he watched The Office. And then he brought his friends over, and they watched The Office, the first season, those first couple episodes, over and over again. He was like, this is the show. And they just barely kept us hanging on.

So thank you, Bob Wright's son, wherever you are. It's amazing. It really is. How many dominoes have to fall? We've asked a lot of actors that have been on this show this question. In your opinion, could somebody like Gilbert pull off a dramatic role?

Did you ask Gabe Kaplan this? No. We asked Bob Balaban and Alan Arkin and Griffin Dunn and people like that. Okay. What about Piven? We didn't have Piven. You didn't have Piven? How could you not have the great Jeremy Piven, the award-winning actor?

He's won two Emmy Awards. I know. Multiple Emmy winner, Jeremy Piven. Haven't had Alec Baldwin yet either. Yeah, I think Gilbert would be great in a dramatic role. I honestly believe that. I think you've got to find the right role. It probably wouldn't involve being some kind of serial killer, but I think that – No, I honestly believe that – I think some of the great dramatic performances are done by comedic actors.

True. And you have to kind of tailor the role to their quirks. But absolutely. Let's do it. There you go, Gil. Let's make this happen what a compliment that oh thank you somebody said i can't remember was it alan arkin who said you should play willie loman you gill i'm not talking to rain that's boy that brought silence. Now, let's do... How about...

But do you guys remember Herve Villachez's Willy Loman? Do you remember that? And when he died, he died the death of a salesman with his pink bedroom slippers. Nice setup. By the way, you and Gilbert, you probably don't even know this, Rain.

You and Gilbert share a screen credit. You are both in a show or a movie. I guess it's a movie. Well, maybe it's a series. The High Fructose Adventures of Amazing Orange. Oh, yeah, sure. My son was like four years old. He loved that show, that animated show, Amazing Orange,

about a talking orange that was created from some YouTube video. So I went and did some voices so that we could share that with my son. And Gilbert and I were in the same episode then? Gilbert was Alfalfa, and you were Dr. Poe. Oh, yeah. How nice. Yeah, that's where they did that trick. What was the original cartoon that did the superimposed mouths?

Clutch Cargo. Oh, Clutch Cargo. Right. Yeah, oh, the mouth. Yeah, filming the mouth. Did you have approval over your mouth filming? See that callback? See what I did there?

See how I brought that back? I'm sure my agents would have demanded it. Before we get out of here and get your guys' plugs, Aaron, a few words about the late, great McPadden. And we mentioned it in the intro. Not only the podcast, Crackpot Cinema, but a long friendship that went back yeah. That went back years. And I know Rain was on the show as well.

That's right. You were on the podcast with us. You forced poor Rain to watch that Gary Coleman movie. On the right track with Gary Coleman. Oh, God. Yes, that was. Never get that two hours back. That was rough.

Mike, but, you know, that's the kind of movie that Mike loved. Mike was the one of us who gave it a thumbs up. And I remember you were mortified. You were like, how could you like this movie? Yeah. But Mike, yeah, Mike McPadden wrote amazing film books like Teen Movie Hell and Heavy Metal Movies. And he loved this podcast, too. I believe I introduced him to it.

And he immediately... Thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. And he was like, he'd never loved anything so much and he contacted you guys and he said, as far as I know, he said, I'll be involved whatever you need, whatever you want. And oh God, and he just, he loved being

a part of it. And yeah, he was my absolutely dearest... He did social media for them? Yeah. He did social media for them? Yeah. He ran our Facebook page, yeah. Oh, great. Yeah. And I met Mike when I was, I think, 19 years old through doing fanzines. And we got on the phone and just instantly it was like we're talking about Mad Magazine

and the Golden Turkey Awards, the book of bad movies we were both obsessed with. And I just, I loved the guy because there was, you know, there's just no one else on earth I could just call up at any point in a day. And you just get him on the phone. You'd go, what about Boom with Elizabeth Taylor? That's a pretty bad movie, huh? Oh, God. I know. And he'd just go for three hours.

And I absolutely loved the guy and missed the hell out of him. He was, yeah, he was a- We miss him greatly. Yeah. And he was a real dichotomy, you know, a guy who was covered in tattoos who loved Barry Manilow. He was a hard guy to get a beat on. And thank you for introducing him to this show because he really turned out to be a great asset. Oh, my God.

For years. And we'll miss him terribly. What did you do, 30 episodes of that podcast? Yeah. Yeah. People can still listen to it. You can find Rain's episode and- What's it called again?

Crackpot Cinema. Crackpot Cinema. And it was just us talking about the kind of insane, messed up movies that Mike loved and I loved. We did one episode that was a tribute to the films of John Ritter. You know, just whatever shit that he— Did you get Problem Child in there? Gilbert's— No, see, Problem Child—

That was actually pretty good. Exactly. We wanted the really bad John Ritter movies. There was that one, like the last American hero or something. Oh, no. That one we reviewed. We reviewed Hero at Large. Yes.

That was a bad one. Yes. We talked about that one. It was also Skin Deep, right? We talked about that one. With the Blake Edwards one. Skin Deep. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely love the guy. We love him, too. And we love Rachel and John and Gene. And we will miss him forever. Rain, tell us about SoulPancake and the good work that you're doing before we get out of here.

Oh, well, yeah. So with some friends, we created a digital media company, SoulPancake. And we had a YouTube channel, have a YouTube channel, and do work, branded content, social media. We created a lot of online viral shows. And the whole philosophy of the company is uplifting, inspiring content for young people. And we've got over a billion video views on the stuff that we've made and uh it's uh it's been a great a great ride and a really fun endeavor yeah and the book was a bestseller book was a bestseller yep congratulations translated a bunch of the shows that we produced into made them into tv shows and um it was uh it

was really it was really fun we were we were purchased by Media, which is a big Oscar-winning media company, and we've kind of become their digital arm now to what they're doing to Participant Media. Great. Yeah. And you want to speak a little bit for a couple of minutes about the great work that you're doing in Haiti? Oh, okay. Sure. And tell people how they can support it. Okay, great.

They can send cash to Gilbert Gottfried, 79 East 79th Street, Apartment 3G. He'll let you do that. So my wife and I went to Haiti and visited a bunch of programs down there and fell in love with the country. And two months later, it was the earthquake and hundreds of thousands of people died. We went and volunteered our time doing arts classes for adolescent girls that were living in the tent city. classes for adolescent girls that were living in the tent city. And out of that was born a nonprofit called Lide Haiti. And we've been working now for the last seven years. It's been very successful. We have about 800 girls in 12 different educational programs for arts and literacy.

girls in 12 different educational programs for arts and literacy. We have scholarships and mobile computer lab and an apprentice program. And it's been a great endeavor. It's a lot of work. It's hard work. But we employ a lot of Haitians. It's really Haitian run and operated at this point. And you can learn more about us by visiting lidehadi.org. Good for you. Rain helped all these people and started a spirituality website and I wrote, Are You Hot?

for Lorenzo Lewis. I'd just like to make sure we plug that again. ABC's Are You Hot? Tell us, from the sublime to the ridiculous, Aaron, tell us a roast joke or a family guy moment or something that you're particularly proud of

as a writer. I mean, I can't imagine there's any roast jokes left that we haven't told over this amount of time. I'll tell you a great Aaron Lee joke. Please. Go ahead. I think it got cut. Okay.

But it was from the Independent Spirit Awards. And I was introducing the people that were going to be giving out the awards. So Forrest Whitaker was going to be giving out an award. And so the joke was, ladies and gentlemen, the next guest to the stage is someone who has been an inspiration to me, someone who I've looked up to so much, and he has helped me throughout my career. I'll never forget when I was starting out as an actor, he once came to me and, no, at first I said his name, so I said that Forrest Whitaker is coming to the stage. He's helped me so much. I remember when I was starting out my career,

he came to me and he said, I always, you know, it's so funny, these popping in your head. I always remember you introducing Javier Bardem on the show. Yes. And I wrote an intro for you where you were like, he is magnetic. He is charismatic. Three-time Oscar winner.

Three-time Oscar winner. I want to fuck him so fucking bad. Javier Bardem. Yes. And I think he was like, I would fuck you. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Yeah.

And so we did cocaine and fucked all night long. You two are the Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor of your time. You really are. You really are. We loved having you guys. Sorry we bounce around so much. Sorry it's so schizophrenic. I love it.

That's why I love it. That's why I've loved it for, what, seven years now? We try to cover as much ground as possible. 377 episodes. Seven years. Oh, what we forgot. Closing in on 400. Aaron, what was your favorite line of that Mad Magazine parody?

Oh, okay. So there's an old Mad Magazine parody of this movie that we forced rain to watch gary coleman and on the right track and the joke i loved as a kid was gary coleman who is a you know a short actor he was playing a little homeless boy and in this panel he's taking a shower at the at the train station where he lives and it's the image is him two men pointing at him saying what what we call a urinal he calls a shower and it's an image of gary coleman nude with his little butt out and a brush and subsets in a urinal. And that, as a kid, I thought that was the funniest thing I'd ever seen in my life. And Mike and I used to say that all

the time. What we big people call a urinal, he calls a shower. What else do you guys want to promote and plug? What's coming up? More Terry Carnation, hopefully. Hopefully. One of these days. We'll figure it out. Rain a couple of movies

in the can. Various things. Will you direct again? Will you keep directing? I would like to direct more, yeah. I'm trying to come up with some projects that I can direct. May I direct our listeners to that wonderfully obscure

and dark and weird and delightful A Funny or Die piece you did together about Dynawoman? That blew my mind. Frank sent that the other day. I had forgotten we did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why I've written so many pieces for you where you're in women's clothing being a prostitute.

Yes. Again, Rain is an actor who commits. My wife says, why is Rain always shirtless or in his underpants? Just for comedy. It just makes people laugh. I have a long, bulbous, eggplant-shaped torso, and it always gets the yucks. Yeah, Dyna Woman. it's on there somewhere. Is it online still? Yeah, it's there.

You can see it. It's great. It's great. Well, thanks for having us, guys. Oh, this is wonderful. I'm out of cards for these gentlemen, Gilbert. Oh. What do you think? I guess then it's time to wrap up. Do you like working with our friend John Amos

in Shakespeare in the Park, Rain? Wow. Yeah. Lovely guy. You did the deep dive. Yeah, he's a great guy. Lovely guy. I love that you also got to work with Hesseman

because I know he was one of your childhood favorites in WKRP. Yeah, yeah. Totally. It's fun, isn't it, to watch these guys as a kid and then grow up and enter their world? You feel that way about Gilbert today?

I do. He's absolutely my idol and it's an honor and a privilege. And you know, I just want to say, I didn't actually write a lot of those offensive jokes that we were talking about. Don't get me in trouble. It was not me.

It was Groucho. And Groucho, why did you write all those offensive jokes? Why did you work for those terrible roasts? And Groucho, why would you do that? Because Chico needs some money. Yes. Beautiful. Thanks for helping me out to find a button, Aaron.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for a great setup. Gilbert, let these gentlemen get on with their day and their lives. They're far from home. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and we've had not one but two great

guests. Aaron Lee and Rainn Wilson. A treat fellas. Thank you. Wow, this was super fun. Thanks so much. Thanks a lot. We'll see you guys out there.

All right. That's great. Thanks, guys. This one'll never sell. They'll never understand. I don't even sing it well. I try, but I just can't But I sing it every night

And I fight to keep it in Cause this one's for you This one's for you I've done a hundred songs from fantasies to lies but this one's so real for me that I'm the one

who cries and I sing it every night and I fight to hide the tears Cause this one's for you This one's for you This one's for you, wherever you are To say that nothing's been the same Since we've been apart

This one's for all the love we once knew Like everything else I have This one's for you I've got it all it seems, for all it means to me For all it means to me But I sing of things I miss And things that used to be And I wonder every night If you might just miss me too

And I sing for you I sing for you, I sing for you This one's for you, wherever I go To say the things I should have said Things that you should know Things that you should know This one's to say that all I can do Is hope that you will hear me sing Cause this one's for you

This one's for you, wherever you are To say that nothing's been the same Since we've been apart This one's for all the lovely ones new Like everything else I have This was for you Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Frank Santopadre,

Derek Gottfried, and Starburns Audio. Audio production by Aristotle Acevedo and John Murray. Editing by Aristotle Acevedo. Social media production by Greg Baer, Josh Chambers, Michelle Maninen, and Dino Corserpio. Thank you.