Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Alan Zweibel

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

Gilbert and Frank welcome back Emmy-winning comedy writer Alan Zweibel for a freeform discussion about bad reviews, least-loved SNL hosts, feuding celebrity couples, unsung Catskills comedians and Alan's new memoir, "Laugh Lines: My Life Helping Funny People Be Funnier." Also, Gilda Radner struggles with fame, Abe Vigoda plays an eskimo, Alan gets heckled by a young Bill Murray and Frank reveals his favorite "Saturday Night Live" sketch of all time. PLUS: "It's Garry Shandling's Show"! The craftsmanship of Alan King! The brilliance of Herb Sargent! The REAL Broadway Danny Rose! And Alan remembers his friend, the late, great Buck Henry! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Before unwinding on an outdoor patio. Oh. Then spending an evening on a cruise along the historic Rideau Canal. Ah. Exploration awaits in Ottawa. From O to Ah. Plan your Ottawa itinerary at ottawatourism.ca. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre.

with my co-host Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is back for his third go-round in the hot seat. He's a screenwriter, producer, humorist, occasional actor, children's book author, Thurber Award-winning novelist, Tony Award-winning playwright, and Emmy Award-winning TV writer. He's also been awarded the Ian McClellan Hunter Award Lifetime Achievement by the Writers Guild of America. And boy, don't you love Ian McLaughlin in those Order of the Rings pictures. He wrote the screenplays for movies like Dragnet, The Story of Us, and North.

Hey. Hey, that's a low blow. Did I mention North? No. North, a movie that may have played a role in the tragic demise of critic Roger Ebert. Oh, I did that to him. Yes. of critic Roger Ebert.

Oh, I did that to him. Yes. He collaborated with Billy Crystal and Martin Short on their one-person shows, 700 Sundays and Fame Becomes Me. He also served as a writer and producer on two of the most beloved TV series of the last 30 years. Curb Your Enthusiasm, and it's Gary's channeling show, a series he also co-created. That's right.

He was also one of the staff writers of the original Saturday Night Live, contributing unforgettable sketches like John Belushi's Samurai Skits, weekend update segments featuring iconic characters Emily Latella and Roseanne Rosanna Dana. Roseanne, Roseanna Dana. He's also one of the executive producers of the terrific documentary Love, Gilda

about the work of his late friend, the great Gilda Radner and his brand new memoir is called Black Lives. My life helping funny people be funnier please welcome back to the podcast one of the world's most amusing humans and a man flashed by both mil Berle and Farrah Fawcett

and the tallest Jew in America, not named Jeff Goldblum, our old pal and the creator of North, Hey! Alan Schweinfeld. creator of North. Hey! Alan Schweifeld. Well, I don't even know how to thank you for that introduction.

Welcome back, Alan. Well, thanks for having me, guys. This is great. You know something? I forgot that I wrote North. It was so much fun to have my memory refreshed. I'll remind you every five seconds. Okay, no, that's fine. And you know something? When I was writing this book, when I got up to the section about North, I put in an excerpt from Roger Ebert's review. Okay, just to show you.

Okay, I hated this movie hated hated hated hated hated hated this movie hated it hated every simpering stupid vacant audience insulted moment of it hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would actually be entertained by it. Now. That's a bad review. Now, on the surface, this may seem like an unfavorable review. But if you keep reading it, I think he sort of liked it. You have no idea what that was like. It was the first,

well, actually the first movie I had my name on was Dragnet, but this was made from my book and I co-wrote the screenplay, but it was me up front. And this was the leading critic in the country at the time and i had i had flown my parents out to la there were two les jews in boca that night so they can come out to the premiere we go it's a big hollywood premiere and i had a feeling that the audience was not going to be into it because when the lights came up and I looked around the theater was empty everybody had left okay and in the limo on the way back to my house my mom was crying when this review came out, my wife, Robin, she would come back from the supermarket that we had been going through for years. She was accosted by other housewives who were assaulting her about this movie. And our son, Adam, who was, I think, in like sixth grade at the time or eighth, seventh grade, came back from school and asked if we can change our last

name to Sorkin. It was really what the kids say, a low point. You carried that thing around on your person for years. I have it in my wallet. The wallet's in the other room, but if we go in there, yes, the wallet is there. And you ran into Ebertbert which i didn't know until i read the new book you ran into ebert years later in a restaurant i had always wondered what it would be like if i ran into raja ebert like you know the time that this review came out like i said he was the number one critic and it was devastating and and it was. And I let him have the power of, you know, destroying me. I lost my confidence and all of that stuff. I eventually rebounded.

It only took like seven, eight years to rebound. So I don't think that's called a rebound. Okay. And I had written a book and I was on book tour and I was in Chicago and I was taken out to lunch. I was in a restaurant and I looked over at about two, three tables over. There is Roger Ebert. He lived in Chicago. So I think he wrote for the Sun Times, one of those newspapers there. Yeah, I believe so. And he was wearing a sweater, I remember, who had all the autumn colors on it,

burnt orange and gold and puke green. It was this large thing. And at one point he got up and he went to the men's room and I'm going, I excused myself from the table and I started following him. And I'm saying to myself, as I'm going towards the men's room, as if I'm not attached to my body, I'm saying to myself, I wonder what Alan's going to do to Roger Ebert. Okay. So I go to the men's room and now we're at the sink and we're both, you you know the mirror is on the wall in front of us

so while we're washing our hands i say roger and he looked up and he's trying to place me i go alan's white belt what dream from his face okay and he turned really pale. And I said, Roger, I just have to tell you that I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that sweater you're wearing. It was a horrible sweater. And he looked at me and he started laughing. I started laughing. And that was the end of the great feud. But he all those hates i believe he used as a uh the title for one of his collections he did yeah he absolutely did you know we were talking about the movie last night over email which i you know i watched again and i hadn't seen it in years and i was reading that interview with vanity fair that you gave with our pal donald liebenson and

you said you hadn't seen it, what, in seven, eight years yourself? Yeah. You know, it was meant as a trifle. I mean, am I right? A small kids movie, a little- It was a small kids movie. An affectionate little, a silly story based on your novella. It was so well intended. based on your novella? It was so well intended. I put this little thing, you know,

a kid doesn't feel appreciated by his parents. He declares himself a free agent, goes all over the world offering his services as a devoted son to the highest bidding sets of moms and dads. And after going all around the world of France and Iceland and Italy, he realizes that his own parents are the best parents for him. I meant well. That's a very sweet notion.

This was treated like I committed a war crime. You know, it's got some very good things in it it had a couple of good things it's funny actors funny performances they want more than a couple yeah it's a beautiful movie to look at i have to say looking at the production design oh god it was 50 million dollars and it looked gorgeous and mark shaman did a mark shaman did a great job. Yeah. And tell us... Love is funny. Tell us the cast. Well, Bruce Willis, Julia Louise Dreyfuss, Jason Alexander... Kathy Bates. Kathy Bates, Dan Aykroyd, Reba McIntyre, John Ritter was in it.

John Lovitz was in it. And there was... John Lovitz was in it. And for you trivia buffs out there, it was the first movie appearance by an eight-year-old actress named Scarlett Johansson. Oh, yeah. She's Ritter and Faith Ford's daughter. There you go.

And was Alan Arkin? Yeah, Alan Arkin was a judge. He's good. This was a cast from heaven. Yeah, it's a great cast. Yeah. You know, Belzer's funny in his little moment. Yeah.

Lovitz is funny. Aykroyd is good. The musical number with Aykroyd and Reba McIntyre is fun. It's a beautiful movie to look at. It's got a lot going for it. Yeah, it's good to look at. Unfortunately, you also had to listen to it. And that's where people had a problem.

And I forget who said this, but somebody once said, I don't read my bad quote. I don't read my bad reviews because I know some good friend will read them to me. That's exactly right. And you experienced that after knowing. Oh, you know what it was? It was my dad calling me up.

Don't read Time Magazine. Page 67. Column 3 three right under the subaru ad i'm gonna i thought it was sweet too that robin tried to help by reading you bad reviews of classic films well my wife is the greatest robin um she tried to help me get out of the doldrums and she looked up and found bad reviews for things like The Wizard of Oz and Godfather II. And she meant well. We have to say, Gilbert, that Abe Vigoda was in it, too. Oh, that's right.

He's the Eskimo granddad that sent out on the ice floe. And it was Belza who was the orphan, right? There's a lot of laughs and didn't a rabbi call you oh this was no i ran into him at a supermarket okay and he cornered me in an aisle filled with traith okay all sorts of pigs knuckles and things like that i knew I was in trouble. And he just basically not only offered his condolences, he was willing to sit shiver. And he quoted, because he's a rabbi and he's knowledgeable, he quoted, and I swear to you, this is the truth, he quoted one of the reviews that Hitler got for Mein Kampf. Apparently, Hitler did better than I did.

What was the O.J. line you did on Letterman? Oh, yeah, when I was on, I think it was my first appearance on Letterman, and David asked me about North, and I told him, I said, you know, it didn't do that well at the box office. As a matter of fact, the night of the killings, O.J. was actually in a theater watching North, but there was nobody else in there to corroborate his story. Hilarious. And you have to tell this again, too, which is the story about Adam, your son Adam and Mike Ovitz's kid. about Adam, your son Adam, and Mike Ovitz's kid?

Well, we were living in L.A., and our son went to a school we spent through the nose for called Crossroads. It's a private school there, and there's a lot of show business. The sons and daughters of show business folks there. And we played a game when the kids came home from school at night. It wasn't a game, but it was a ritual we had at the dinner table. We called it high-low. And everybody had to tell their high for the day and had to tell their low for the day. And this was a way of keeping in touch.

And if there was a low, we helped them. You know, if a kid was giving somebody a hard time. And it was nice. It was a great bonding thing that we used to do when the kids were young. nice. It was a great bonding thing that we used to do when the kids were young. And Adam, when it was his turn to go, his low was a run-in that he had with Mike Ovitz's son. Now, Mike Ovitz ran Hollywood at the time. He was the big guy at CAA. He was the most powerful man in town. And his son, in town and his son, Chris, you know, he got into a bit of a shouting match with our son, Adam, you know, in the schoolyard. And most kids, when they, you know, when they sort of like put each other down, you know, you're fat, no, you're fat, you're a bad ball player, you're a bad ball player.

And it started like that. And then Ovitz got in the last shot by saying, yeah, well, your father wrote North. And that's why you're going to get 10 million at the box office. He's a Hollywood kid. Okay. And I said to Adam, I said, well, how did you answer? He said, well, I said, well, at least people like my father. And I said, that's your high for the day. Okay. So nice. Good kid. Gilbert, we said it on the, on the episode with Jeffrey last week with Jeffrey Tambor, but tell it's, it bears repeating. Tell Alan your worst review. Oh, uh, I, my worst review was Gilbert Gottfried is the worst thing to happen to movies since the snuff film. You know, I was, I was, Dennis Miller, I was on his show, I guess it was last week, and he was talking about, we were talking about Tom Shales, who was a legendary, wonderful critic from the Washington, and he was the guy, you always wanted Tom to like you, okay? Tom wrote a book about an oral history of Saturday Night Live. Great book. Terrific writer, James Andrew Miller.

Okay, they wrote it. And I said, you know, I had, you know, those books I don't read. I just look at the, I look in the index for the pages that my name is on. I go to those pages and make sure I was behaving myself. And then I put the book back on the shelf. So I asked Dennis, I said, you know, how much time did you spend with him? Because I know I spent a lot of time giving them interviews. And he said, no, he didn't.

He just couldn't sell himself out that way. Because when Dennis was doing Weekend Update, Tom said, Shale said something in a review about him that the highlight of every weekend update that dennis does is when he turns the page to the next joke no i'm paraphrasing but that's the essence of it so unreal you know boy and you said gilda radner said call me g? Well, yeah, what had happened was when Gilda started getting famous, you know, we all started the show, you know, with just a bunch of kids in the early and mid-20s, and we started putting on this show. And I remember there was one time that we went into

Carnegie Hall. We went to see Billy Crystal was there with, I think Melissa Manchester, okay? And as we're walking in, this is Carnegie Hall now, okay? People from the upper tiers, when they recognized Gilda, they started yelling down, hey, Roseanne, Roseanna, Dana,

hey, Gilda, hey, Gilda. And they started saying, hey,anna rosanna dana hey gilda hey gilda and they started saying hey i also have an eating problem hey i also have trouble keeping a guy and it spooked the hell out of her it spooked her and at the end of the evening um we were talking we were sitting there they emptied the place out and um she was down and i said said, what's the matter? She says, it just scares me that people who I don't know, know these personal things about me. And she, as a sign of affection or a sign of our closeness, she wanted me, she said, please don't call me Gilda anymore. I said, well, isn't that your name? And she said, yeah, but I want our friendship to be special. I'd like you to call me something that nobody else does.

And I said, what should that be? And then she said, Gilbert. And from there on for the rest of her life, any note I sent her, any phone call, it was all Gilbert. And you thought it had something to do with you, didn't it? I was hoping. All right, take two. Take two. We're in Carnegie Hall.

And we're sitting afterwards. And, Sly Bell, I would really love it if you called me something that, oh, let's see, that Gilbert Gottfried's parents called him. You can edit that in, take the other thing out. You were 24 when that, when that, all that happened, Alan. Yeah, I turned 25 on May 20th of 1975. I got the job like either late April or early May. The first meeting was exactly July 7th, 1975. So I had turned 25 a couple of months before, but I was 24 when I found that I had the job. And I remember I was with Richard Lewis

when that phone call came. He and I were writing spec scripts together. And we both had the same manager, a man named Dave Jonas. The legendary Dave Jonas. Dave Jonas. And Gilbert Dave Jonas. Dave Jonas. And Gilbert, do you remember Jonas? Oh, yes.

He was a sweet man. He was an older man even at that time. And, you know, it's been said that Woody Allen based Broadway Danny Rose. Yes, I've heard that. That character very much on Dave. Dave was a vision in polyester, and he had a toupee, but he didn't have enough glue because when the wind, you know, would spin it around, and I'd stand with him on a street corner,

and all of a sudden a part that was over here is now over here, and it was a whole to-do. But he was my first manager yeah yeah the legendary dave jonas you were saying that when you were writing bunny bunny you were talking to a tv executive oh god yeah yeah i had written bunny bunny which was my tribute to gilda i wrote it to get over you know her, her death. I relived the whole relationship as I remembered it. You know, where did we meet? Oh, that first meeting. And it was she talked, I talked, she talked, so I talked. And I just chronicled everything as best my memory can

serve me for 14 years of this relationship, ending with a eulogy that I gave at her memorial. And the book did very, very well. And there were people who wanted to option it. And there was a meeting up at HBO. And there was some genius up there who said, we love this book. We really want to do this movie. But does she have to die at the end? I said, well, what did she have, like a bad cold? What did she talk about? They were trying to make it, you know, the opportunity for a possible sequel.

It was insane. You know, thinking about those days, Alan, the old SNL days that you bring to life in the book, I mean, it's kind of romantic. Even you struggling as a stand-up at Catch, you and Billy taking the Long Island Railroad back and forth into the city and running

jokes together. Billy and I speak about it all the time. We did a movie together that wrapped in November. We just got it all done, and we locked the picture before this coronavirus stuff happened. So, you know, we were lucky that we have it.

You know, there's some post-production work that has to be done on it, like music and whatever, but the picture exists. The fact that he and I wrote this movie and we brought it up a lot, and it's even in the forward to this book. And if any of you who, it's this book that... The fact that we had started 45, 47 years earlier,

I lived with my parents on Woodmere, Long Island. He was already married to Janice and they had a child. They had Lindsay, Jenny, excuse me. And we became fast friends at Catch a Rising Star. He would pick me up every night at my parents' house in a little blue Volkswagen. We'd drive into the city. We'd do our respective, you know, sets, and then he would drive me home, and we would listen to the tapes, you know, and critique each other, new jokes, what if you said it this way, oh, I really like that piece, and the fact that so many years later, we're now doing this motion picture together that stars him and Tiffany Haddish, and Billy directed it, that stars him and Tiffany Haddish and Billy directed it.

We wrote the script together. It's inspired by a magazine piece that I had. And it was just magical how it all, you know, and in between those two, we had done 700 Sundays, which was a real highlight for me because he was a guy, Billy, who wanted to do a one-man Broadway show that was about his parents, about his extended family. And he trusted me with them. He trusted me to have the respect for them that he had. And it brought back a thousand memories for me because, you know, two Jews from Long Island,

it's not like that their relatives are like, you know, aliens. They're pretty much the same people. So it just got me in touch with my old relatives. And we put some of that stuff in the mouths of Billy's relatives. But yeah, the whole relationship, the whole friendship is really magical. And having those roots. And then here we are. We just did this picture. And Tiffany Haddish wasn't even born when you guys.

When we met. Was she 30 or something? Yeah. She's late 30s, maybe 40. No, she was not born. No. There were so many people not born when we built it. But it's romantic in the book, the picture you paint of you guys in those days.

And even going to meet Lorne for the first time in the hotel room. guys in those days and even going to meet Lauren for the first time in the hotel room. Well, you know, I had, um, I had 1100 jokes that I had written for all those standup comedians in the Catskills. And I had written a bunch of jokes myself when I was on stage of Catch a Rising Star with the hopes that a manager, an agent would, um, like my writing and want to represent me as a writer. And I remember I was really nervous. I was going to have my meeting with Lauren. Dave Jonas and there was an agent in William Morris at the time named Leon Memoli set me up with a meeting with Lauren. And I went into the city with a notebook filled with 1100 jokes in it.

And I was really nervous. Volume. Yeah, volume. Yeah. Yeah. The margins are thin, so it's a volume business. Yeah, I was in the schmata business. He's got to like one of these 1100s.

Yeah. And I called Billy. Here's Billy again. I was in the lobby and there were no cell phones. It was a pay phone. And Lorne had spent time with Billy. They had gone to dinner and they hung out and they spoke comedy. And I said, listen, I have a meeting with this guy, Lorne, in a little while. Anything you can do to give me a leg up on this meeting? And I was desperate because, you know, I was making seven,

learning $7 a joke from those Catskill comedians. And to supplement this great living I was making, I took a job in a delicatessen on Hillside Avenue in Queens. Okay. You name it. I sliced it for about two years. So Billy says to me, he says, well, he's worked with Woody Allen and he's produced Monty Python specials. Oh, and he hates mimes. Lorne hates mimes. So I said, okay, got it. I go upstairs at the appointed hour and I sit on a bed. Lorne pulls up a chair and I hand him this, this tome of 1100 jokes. He opens it. He reads the first joke and he goes, very good. Very good.

And then he closes the binder and he said, how much money do you need to live on? I said, well, I'm making $2.75 an hour at the deli. Match it. So he said, tell me a little bit more about yourself, which I took to mean that before he committed to this kind of cash, he wanted to see what he was buying. So I remembered my phone call with Billy and I said, well,

Woody Allen's my idol, love Monty Python. But if there's one fucking mime on this show, I am out of here. He gave me a job. So, you know, I'm paraphrasing, obviously, and I've said it so many times. But that was the essence of the meeting. And about three, four days later, I got that phone call saying I got the job on this new show. While you were writing a Robert Klein pilot with Richard Lewis, the phone call. Richard, it was called Boiling Points,

and he played a Jack Neufeld kind of investigative, muckraking reporter for a Village Boys kind of newspaper. That's absolutely right. Love it. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences Using Colossal Podcast after this. one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for T's and C's. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement

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Play at games.circlek.com or at participating Circle K stores. And you, when you were talking about the early days of Catch a Rising Star, you mentioned Roger Riddle. And I remember him. You do? Wow. Yes. Yes. I thought he was funny, Roger Riddle.

Well, I think he has since passed. But he was a little guy and he, his real name was something like Roger Rosenblatt or something. Okay. And he earned his money by and large as a clown at children's parties. So he, and he wanted to make the leap from that to, to becoming a comedian. And I remember, that to becoming a comedian. And I remember, oh, this was so sad. I went to see him perform and he started his set. He wore a tuxedo. And he said that at the beginning of the evening, one of the guests at one of the tables came up to him, thought he was the waiter

and asked for ketchup. And he says, no, I'm the comedian. And the person then said, well, can you bring it to me in a funny bottle? Now, that was his opening joke, okay? That was his opening joke, okay? When I said to him, that was his, oh, he started with that, and then he lamented doing that later on, because he said, and I hope you're sitting down, Gilbert and Frank, he said to me later that he should have ended with that joke. He should have led, built up to that joke

how do you how do you follow a joke like that you know and i'm going wow you know it's not like he made it to like sinatra starting you know the show with my way okay wait a second no roger it's you you actually remember rogerdle, huh, Gil? Roger Riddle. Yes. Roger Riddle. Yes. Gil remembers all these comics like Roger Riddle.

And who was Dummy in the Window again? Oh, that was Larry Raglin. Larry Raglin. Oh, I remember Larry Raglin. Timmy Rogers. There was a comic who lived on Long Island, a couple of towns from my parents' name, Bob Melvin. Do you ever hear him or hear of him? No.

You talk about him in the book. Oh, he was an older guy. And I was like 22 and he was like 50. So right away, you knew that there was a disconnect. And he lived in the next town and there was a strip, you know, with all these stores on it, the main, the main drag. And I would walk with him and he would tell me his, some of his jokes. None of them made me laugh. He says, but what really put me on the map, this is him talking. He says, his catchphrase was, you got a minute?

Yes. That was Bob Melvin. You got a minute? Oh, my God. And then he was doing these low-budget commercials. There you go. Where he'd start every commercial with, you got a minute? There you go.

Don't remember him. He would speak, Frank, he would speak about himself and you got a minute as if it was part of American lore. Okay. There's Mark Twain, there's Huckleberry Finn, and there's Bob Melvin's you got a minute. He says, you know, it's worked so good for me. I can go, I go into any store and the proprietor looks up and goes, hey, you got a minute? People got traffic sometimes at a red light. When I walk by, somebody sticks their head out. Hey, you got a minute?

Trust me. I walked with this guy a lot. I went into dozens of stores with him, passed a lot of cars. Not one. Not one person asked if he had a minute. And you also mentioned, of course, everyone's favorite, Freddie Roman. Freddie Roman is such a nice man.

He's a good guy, Freddie. Great guy. And what was interesting about Freddie always for me, I saw him do industrial shows. I saw him in the Catskills. I saw him do fundraisers, corporate events. He can go into any room in the country and kill. He was that good of a comedian.

And then 10 minutes after the show was over, they forgot his name. You know what I mean? It was that ilk of comedians that they were really good commercial comedians. And he was so good to me. He was such a to me. He was such a nice man. Yeah. I like seeing those names in the book, you know, Corbett Monica and, and Johnny Hamer and Jackie miles, Gilbert, you know, these names and Gene Baylows and Henry. Well, Pat Henry opened for Sinatra and I had written him jokes for a fryer's roast, okay?

But who did you just say before, Pat Henry? Well, it's Jackie Miles, Johnny Hamer, Gene Balos. Gene Balos. This was a guy. Gilbert, were you familiar with Gene Balos? Yes, yes. I used to see him at the fryer's. Yeah.

Well, the first time I met him. And the waiters all hated him. He went around picking food off of everybody's plate. He would come in with a bag. That sounds familiar. And he would take it off the little serving table there. But here's the thing, and I think I have this in the book. Freddie Roman took me, or Morty Gunty took me there for the first time,

and he's introducing me. I'm at the bar, and oh, here's a bright young writer, da-da-da-da, and they were very nice, because hopefully he would spread the word and maybe get me some more gigs. Took me into the main dining room, and at that first table, when you walked in, the first table on the right was the comics table, okay? That's where you saw Red Buttons and Alan King and, you know, whoever was in town sat at that table. And he introduces me to Gene Baylis, who had like those beagle kind of droopy eyes. And I really say, it's like,

it's like if somebody stuck a pin and deflated his face, okay? And he introduces me to Gene Baylos, and he goes, Baylos looks at me and goes, I hear you're very funny. You know who's also very funny? My dentist. And he takes out maybe 30 chiclets out of his mouth as if they were his teeth. My dentist. And I swear that to this day, I don't know. Did he walk around all the time with 30 chiclets in his mouth,

waiting to be introduced to some unsuspecting kid? Or did he see I was coming, turned his head, shoved in 30 yards? I just don't know. God bless these guys. Tom Leopold would talk about he and Paul Schaefer were at the Friars, and they ran into Gene, and Tom said, you know this, and Tom said, I've told you this, Gil. Tom said, how you doing, Gene?

He said, not too good. I got a glass tube in my prick. I never heard that. That's hilarious. I love seeing those names in the book, Alan. I told you about Henny Youngman, right? Oh, yeah, with the pigeon. Oh, tell I won again. That's a great one.

Well, what it was is I had just joined the Friars Club, and I was on my way there, Well, what it was is I had just joined the Friars Club, and I was on my way there, and that was sort of in front of me steps Henny Youngman. He doesn't know I'm behind him because I'm back there. All right. And so he thinks he's alone. That's the important part of this story. He crosses the street to go into the Friars Club. He's about to step onto the curb when a pigeon flutters down, lands a couple of feet from him, and without hesitation, Henny looks at the pigeon and goes,

any mail for me? And I'm going, he didn't know I was there. He was talking to a bird. It's a classic. It's a classic. This is the way these guys were wired. You don't even get a laugh any way you can.

Some of these other names. And by the way, before we get off the subject of Freddie Roman, who wrote that wonderful Friars joke that Belzer did? The joke about, you know the one, Freddie Roman. Freddie Roman, ladies and gentlemen, Jack Ruby had a longer TV career. Was that your joke? It was not me. No Joe? It was me. No, it was not me.

I had. That is gold. Tell us about these names. Billy Baxter, Dick Lord. Dick Lord was a comedian. You know, these comedians, they lived in New City, which is in Rockland County, and the reason they chose to live there, it was somewhat equidistant between Manhattan and the Caskell hotels. So it was a suburban town.

They brought their families up there. And I would go there on a Friday afternoon, and I'd write jokes with and for them, have dinner with their families, and then go up to the Concord or, you know, the Neville, whatever hotel, and see if my jokes worked, you know. And then Dick Lord also lived, he lived down the street from Freddie Roman, Morty Gunty lived there, Myron Cohen lived there, if you remember him. Great names. There was a comedian named Vic

Garnell who lived nearby in Suffern. Dick Lord was a very funny guy. And he grew up, his best friend was Bobby Darin. And this was really sort of weird. His best friend was Bobby Darin, and they made a pact that whoever became famous first, the other one would open for him. So I think you know sort of the end of this story, because I don't believe in the annals of show business did Bobby Darin end up opening for Dick Lord. And Dick had three children, and one of them he named Darren, Darren Lord. Oh, that's cool.

Yeah. You know, you're reading the book, and at one point you say, this is analogous to the scene in Annie Hall where Woody is stuck or Alvy Singer is stuck writing jokes for these fly-by-night comics, and it's, hey, kid, can you write me a French number? Played by Johnny Hamer, who you actually wrote for. It looks wonderful from here. Yeah, it was spooky as all hell when I saw that in the movie.

And we've all seen that movie a million times. the movie and we've all seen that movie a million times the guy the manager at the desk who says to johnny hamer about young woody who's sitting in the chair this uh this kid writes some good jokes um you know maybe he can write for you or something like that okay and johnny hamer gets up and he says to the kid um young woody he says i hear you write good jokes, but I'm, you know, I'm not typical. I'm good looking. You know, I look very nice in the suit. I don't have a big nose. There's nothing distinctive about me. So when it's a little tougher, do you think you can do it? He says, you know, I like to come out and I sing, you know, oh, Jean D'Arc, all this French stuff. Jean D'Arc.

All this French stuff. And when I saw that, I thought I was going to, I went nuts because a few years earlier, not that many years earlier, I sat in Dave Jonas's office where he introduced me to Johnny Hamer. There you go. So I lived that scene, you know? So, wow, what are the odds of that? Yeah.

So when you watch Broadway Danny Rose, it's like a documentary to you to me it's a documentary look who you had at that table you had Morty Gunty Morty Corbett Corbett Monica Monica was there Jackie Gale who you worked with Jackie Gale I worked with I did a show called the boys for showtime oh yeah Jackie Gale was in he was a very very funny man Jackie and Howie Storm was at that table, who we had, Gilbert. Yes. A couple of months ago. He's the last surviving member of that scene. Yeah, because Jack Rollins died also.

Yes. And I remember at Catch in those days, Gabe Kaplan used to go on all the time. Right. And that whole, his whole welcome back Carter was a bit. Sure. Yes, that's exactly right. And that's what gave way to the show.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Uh-huh. Who do you remember in those clubs too? This comes up in the book, Gilbert. Of course, we know Ronnie Shakes, the Untouchables. Yes. You're mentioning all of these people, Ed Bluestone, Larry David, Richard Lewis was there. Belzer was there.

What do you remember? What was your stand-up act actually like, Alan? Because I don't think you ever told me. And two, do you remember seeing Gilbert for the first time? I remember seeing Gilbert at the improvisation. And Gilbert, I don't know how old you were, but you had like three bar trays, those circular trays. Yeah. And you were doing impersonations with them. had like three bar trays, those circular trays. Yeah. And you were doing impersonations with them.

Still doing it. Yes. Still doing it. Okay. So I see this kid going, Ironsides. Okay. Sounds right. Gilbert was hilarious.

Hilarious. I remember you said Ronnie Shakes. Sure. Ronnie Shakes has since passed away. I think he died as a very young man. But isn't it weird that so many years later, and it's in the book, Ronnie Shakes had a joke that there's just you know, for 70 years, I've been going to the same shrink three times a week. I tell him all my problems. I share everything with him, all my fears, all my neuroses. And today he said three words that brought tears to my eyes. No hablo ingles.

That's the best joke. A wonderful joke. How great is that joke? Yeah, just great. I love reading those old jokes too in the book. And I love, you know, Arnie Kogan, who's obviously been on this show and is a mutual friend. I love that you meet Morty Gunty and he's going, oh, they all wrote for me. Morty Gunty. All these guys wrote for me. Larry Gelbart, Neil Simon. He would take open a drawer, Morty Gunty would, and he would take out folders that had jokes. Larry Gelbart, Neil Simon. Amazing.

Danny Simon. Danny Simon. Yeah. And Arnie Kogan. And Arnie, when I was researching his book a little bit, and I was asking him for some Morty Gunty stories, he told me that years later, and Neil Simon did write for Morty Gunty, obviously, on his way up, okay? And he said something, it was at the opening of something like The Odd Couple, or, you know, Lost in Yonkers, one of those big hits.

And Morty was at the opening of it. And as they're leaving the theater, it's the hub of a Broadway play, opening night, da-da-da-da-da-da. Morty approached Neil Simon and says, you know, that shopping cart routine, it's not working. This is 30 years later. He's not working. This is 30 years later. He's Neil Simon. He's got a theater name. I love that all the great comedy writers of the generation had to

go through Morty Gunty. It was a serve apprenticeship with Morty Gunty. It was a rite of passage in a way. Yes. Yeah. And I love reading those jokes too. Your let your last supper joke. Well, I did. That was for Dick Capri.

Dick Capri is still alive. I believe he was in Florida. Funny man, a sweet, sweet man. And I remember when they had Catskills on Broadway and we were living in LA at the time. So me and Robin went and there was Freddie Roman, Dick Capri,

Mal Z. Lawrence, and they always had a woman. Also funny. I think this was Marilyn Michaels was in it, somebody like that. And I'm sitting there, and this is, oh, God, I want to say early 2000s, okay? Or maybe late 1990s, okay, or maybe late 1990s, okay, somewhere in there. And Capri is there, and he's doing a routine about his family tree that I had written in 1973. He was talking about his family tree that he had his Italian uncle, Giovanni Montini Capri, who was at the Last Supper. You know, you can't see him in the picture. He wasn't at the dais.

He was at table six. Okay. He won the centerpiece. And he did that joke. Now, Mouncey Lawrence, was he the one that said, you want to hear a sad story? Oh, wasn't that Eddie Lawrence, the old philosopher? I don't know, but I remember he was also doing a commercial. Interesting.

Really funny guy, Mousy Lawrence. Alan, were you heckled by a young Bill Murray as a stand-up? Okay, so I went on stage at Catch a Rising Star to advertise my material. And if people liked the joke, they laughed. If they didn't, I started, like, weeping. I had no sense of performance. You see this big Jew just starting to melt in front of you. So you asked before what I spoke about, Frank.

Yeah, what was the act like? Well, the act was as if, you know, look, we were the next generation, like Alan King's children. Yeah. Okay. So it was talking about Long Island, middle class, what our parents, you know, what was suburban life. middle class what our parents you know what was suburban life but from our perspective and um oh the jokes were uh you know everything is artificial in long island um even uh the grass of my parents lawn has black roots okay no gray roots yeah gray roots well no matter what it was it never got a laugh it never got ever ever ever the response it just got from you was probably that much better than

we got up there you know it was like tumbleweed came down the aisle and in one time i was on stage at catch and to set up all my terrific Long Island jokes, I said, I live on Long Island. And a voice from the back said, so do I. Could I have a ride home? I didn't know how to respond. So all I did was, oh, I took the train. I later found out that it was Bill Murray who was there.

Unbelievable. But I didn't know him, nor did I know it was him who did that at the time. And you know what's interesting? All these names and some bigger ones like Alan King and Henny Youngman and Milton Berle, they started out as basically Jew comics. That's right. And there are Jew comics that I see nowadays that if they went in front of an audience that wasn't Jewish, they would be speaking in a totally...

And somehow these guys were able to make the transition i'm telling you that you know even like we said freddie roman before could go into any room in the country and kill a good commercial comedian alan king obviously became very famous and very successful but they knew how to read a room and they played it. Alan King. Do you remember that routine he had, uh, survived by widow? Oh, great. Great. Great. God, he would just take the newspaper and read the obituary and he'd have an audience member say, what's it say? It's survived. And it was hilarious. Sell the shit out of that bit. He would sell the shit out of it. But you want to know something? You get a guy like Freddie Roman, and look, he was a shoe salesman before he decided that he was going to make the leap onto the stage.

And he used to tell jokes like, my wife is on a new diet. She wears little pieces of Limburger cheese hanging from her ears. And she never brushes her teeth. And from a distance, she looks thinner. And he would get big laughs with it. And I would laugh. There was something. He was not of our generation.

But there was something. They were real craftsmen when it came to joke telling. And I admired that. That's a real honor. He would do jokes like the car mechanic telling his wife, I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made the horn louder. I love that joke. You had great affection for those people, Alan.

I really did. We were talking about the boys. Gilbert and I were talking about the boys. The great Alan Garfield just died last week. He was in the series. Tell us about it. Bernie Brillstein called me up. I was doing a scary shambling show.

And so I was hot on Showtime, okay, in the late 80s. And he said, you want to do a show called the boys i said well i don't know what that is and he said you know about a bunch of old comics and i said you know something i belong to the friars club i said why don't i call it the boys but i'll make it about a fictitious club not unlike the friars club and our hero cast could be the guys who play cards with each other up in a specific room every week so the cast was an all-star cast it had alan garfield who was a terrific actor it was great lionel stander the best was in it norman fell um norm crosby played himself, okay? Because, okay, he couldn't make the stretch since he was having a different name. And these guys would fight amongst themselves.

It was hilarious. This was, I'd come home, Robin and I would take the kids, let's say to Disneyland, it'd be a Sunday night, we'd get home, it's a school night. I'd play back the messages and I would hear just somebody clearing their throat

for maybe 10, 15 minutes, then hang up, and I'd go, oh, Lionel, stay on the call. Okay? It was like running a geriatric kindergarten. But Alan Garfield was a very accomplished actor. He had already done, I think, was he in The Conversation? He was. Yes, yes, he did.

And so I consider ourselves very lucky that we have very difficult, very difficult to work with, questioned everything, no leaps to faith. So he was, in one way, he was an anchor to this group, but on the other, he didn't have the facility that other people did, but he was a good actor. You have him on VHS or something, Alan? I've got to see these episodes. You know something?

I would, if not- Five of them? Oh, no. We did a, I want to see, it might be eight or nine. Wow. I got to see them. Yeah.

You still have a Betamax player, right? Because I got him here. I don't have a Betamax. You told a joke that Gary Shandling called you. Oh, when I first met him? Yeah. Gary Shandling was a genius. Gary Shandling was such a good writer. What had happened was I was at the

Friars Club. And this was after SNL, a couple of years. And I'm sitting there and the phone rings. So they bring over a phone, Friars Wipeout, bring over the phone. And I answered it. And it was Bernie. He says, you know who Gary Shandling is I said yeah I think he's funny I've seen him on Letterman on some talk shows he says well he he's doing a special for Showtime that's headed right for the shithouse if you don't get your ass on a plane they sent me the script I read it I thought it would was funny that I could help. I went out there and I went straight from LAX to whatever restaurant to meet Gary. Now, Gary was waiting in the restaurant and he was wearing sunglasses. This was at night in a restaurant, never took them off. So when we were talking

in general, just getting to know each other and specifically about the script, I couldn't get a read if the guy liked my ideas, liked me, couldn't see his eyes, all right? We left each other, and we said, okay, we'll keep in touch, and I honestly didn't know if I'd ever hear from this guy again. I go, I check into whatever hotel, I go to sleep, and now it's one o'clock in the morning, which is four o'clock for my body, right? The phone rings. Hello, Alan, it's Gary. Hey man, what's doing? Alan, my dog's penis tastes bitter.

You think it's his diet or what? And I'm going, I called Robin. I said, I think I found a writing partner. And at his memorial, we all told Gary jokes. He would call. He called at six o'clock on a Sunday morning. And back then there was no caller ID. So we'd be lying in bed. We'd be asleep.

The phone was on Robin's side of the bed. The phone would ring. At this point, if you're a Jew and if the phone rang at six o'clock in the morning, either somebody was dead or it was gary and robin and i would have debates as to which was worst news okay you you said he had one joke where he was in bed with a girl here we come so he takes robin takes the phone and she just hands it over to me. I go, hello. Alan's Gary. Hey, man. This is six o'clock Sunday morning.

And he goes, Alan, I had a date last night. I go, yeah, how did it go? He goes, well, we were in bed and the girl said, no fingers in the ass. And I said, look, it's my finger and it's my ass. And if that's where I want to keep it, we don't have a vote. That's a great joke. Now to write a joke, if I live to be a thousand,

I can't write that joke. Oh, God damn brilliant. Tell the chimp story too, Alan. What was that? Tell the chimp story since we're talking about Gary. I was just getting to know Gary and I had never seen him in a club before. Okay.

Eventually I saw him in Las Vegas and I have it in the book that I had never been and he this is what kind of genius he was he was doing a Toyota convention in Las Vegas it was like 2100 Toyota salesmen worldwide okay and I'm in the back and Gary comes onto stage and he looks at these 2,100 Toyota people and he says, you know, one thing I love to do after I jerk off is talk at a Toyota convention. That was his opening joke. What you're talking about, Frank, is Gilbert, I'm sure you've performed at the Comedy and Magic club down in emosa beach oh yeah la gary used to work out there all the time okay and uh we're driving down there from la and he says to me look i'm gonna get to a point in my act where and i'm gonna just brush my ear just gonna hit my ear that's your signal

shout out tell us about your chimp i said what he said and no matter how i resist you keep on insisting that i tell you about my chimp. I go, fine. So I go, I'm sitting in the back. Gary's on stage. He's talking about his problems with girls and with his mom and dating and all of that and how he spends most of his time alone. And then he hits his ear and I yell out, tell us about your chimp.

And he looks at me, goes, no, no, no, no, no. That's it's too personal. I can't tell that story. And he starts again. And I go, tell us about the chimp. And he says, sir, I appreciate that you like the chimp, but I can't tell there's women here and whatever. I insist. And now the audience catches on and the whole audience is going, tell us about the chimp. audience catches on and the whole audience is going tell us about the chimp tell us about the chimp it became like a whole new thing okay so finally Gary goes all right fine he says I have a pet chimp and the other night you know he just just imitates everything I do and the other night I brought a girl home for the first time I took her into the bedroom and the chimp took one look at me,

jumped up onto the dresser, dipped his hands, his fingers in a jar of Vaseline, slapped it on his ass and bent over. And Gary said, he said to the girl, I swear, he's never done this before. Bad chimp. Naughty, naughty, I swear he's never done this before. Bad chimp. Naughty, naughty. I swear he's never done this before. I had never seen anybody manipulate an audience that way. Yeah, I did. Maybe Andy Kaufman, when I used to see him at Catch or at the Improv at the really early days,

he would make the audience hate him and then love him. And it was, but Gary with his chimp story, Gary always spoke about his ass and he, like he would make those phone calls just like Rodney did. Robert and I went on our honeymoon. We came home, this is after SNL. No, no, we're still doing SNL.

We were married in 1979. So we came home and it's two o'clock in the morning. So we're still doing SNL. We were married in 1979. So we came home, and it's 2 o'clock in the morning. So we're dead to the world. We don't even unpack our suitcases. Plop into bed. At 2 o'clock, the phone rings. I pick it up. Alan, it's Rodney.

Hey, man, Rodney, what's doing? Alan, when we were growing up, were real poor i go how poor were you he says we're so poor that come christmas we couldn't afford tinsel for the tree we used to wait for my grandfather to sneeze now it's two in the morning i'm with robin and i'm laughing a it's a funny joke and b this poor woman is going to spend the rest of her life, as long as we're married, getting phone calls like this in the middle of the night. Rodney says, what do you think? Funny?

I went, yeah, it's real funny. He goes, yeah, that's what I thought. He hung up. I didn't hear from him for two years. Was it surreal when Rodney came to host SNL, considering you'd had history with him? Yeah, I had history with him. And I was, I remember writing a lot for the show that week.

And you'd think about it, the worst host we ever had was Milton Berle. And Rodney, probably around the same age, maybe a little bit younger, but of that school, you know, joke telling and whatever. But there was something so hip about Rodney. You know, he was friends with Lenny Bruce. Okay. And Joe Ansis was legendary. He used to hang out at Hanson's, you know, the drugstore there. And boy, I would have loved to have been the fly on that wall. You know, George Carlin, they were all there. Rodney was of of that ilk and so when he came to host um i was like proud hey everybody my dad's coming uh you're gonna love it was great who were the uh aside from uncle milty who were the hosts that disappointed you the most personally

well to say disappointed that you had an expectation i think we talked about louise lasser last time louise last i you know she was you know she was huge star okay um uh mary hartman mary hartman sure right yeah and she came and um boy she was incredibly unfunny and um she she there was no flexibility there. You know, certain people, their method is to memorize something or just to, you know, and you had the greatest improv actors in the world, you know, with Gilder and Belushi and Bill Murray and Danny and Lorraine. So it was a different school altogether.

And they had an idea because at one point they thought she was going to walk out or wouldn't do the show. And what was the idea of how they were going to fill her sketches? Oh, you're talking about Louise Lassig? Oh, yeah. They were all going to wear the wigs, right, Gil?

Yeah. All the cast members were going to put on the Mary Hartman wig. Wow. This is how I have to find out. Like when Buck got cut by the samurai sword and everybody put a band-aid on. Everybody put a band-aid on, and at the end of the show, for the good nights, everybody had a band-aid, the same as X-Files.

You know, Alan, you talk about in the book how you decided to leave in 79, and it's sad in a way because had you stayed one more season, you guys would have been on together. Who's that? You and Gil. gill oh yeah me and gill i thought you were talking about milton no the other well-endowed comedian yeah yeah boy i would have been surrounded by um wow um what you would call it i left the 79 80 season so i left at the end of the spring of 80. Gilbert, you came on in the next fall, right? Yeah. We crossed in the night, absolutely.

It could have been fun. Yeah. Why do you think Gilbert's season didn't work, Alan? I know that's a loaded question. I think that, you know, something, as I remember, look, there was a couple of things going on there first of all look what they were up against the legend of course people who came before them okay so you know and wasn't Eddie Murphy there oh yeah you had people you had Gilbert you had Eddie Murphy

you had people but I think it was up against the the comparison what was. I also think that you didn't have at the helm, with all due respect to Gene Domanian, Lorne was a genius. Lorne created this show. Lorne was very, very funny. Lorne had taste. Lorne was a comedy technician to a great extent. That wasn't in Gene's wheelhouse. You know, so even if you had a staff of writers and you had very capable actors, you didn't have anybody at the helm who could put it all together the way Lorne did. And also, I always thought it was like if when Friends was the top show on the air,

if you changed the entire cast. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. The only time that ever worked is when the first Darren died in Bewitched. Yes! Yes! That was so weird. Everyone accepted it. He looked nothing like the other guys.

Everybody accepted a new Marilyn Munster, too. Yes! In those days. You know, a new Marilyn Munster, too. Yes! In those days. You know, it's sweet, Alan, too, the way you write about SNL in the book. It's in the early part of the book. You're talking about going to SNL 40. Gilbert was there, too. Sure.

We sat near each other, I think right behind Gilbert. Yeah, but it's sweet the way you talk about how, well, first of all, your heart goes, you're thinking about the people who weren't there. You were thinking about Gilda and John and Dave Wilson. Yeah. You know, you look around and you're back to where you were then. So I looked at it through those eyes. Tom Davis. And the place was populated by now, you know, people who were deceased.

So like the director, Dave Wilson and Michael O'Donoghue, and Gilda, and John. And Herb, of course. Herb Sargent, who was my mentor. Now, Herb was still there when you did the show, right, Gilbert? I don't remember. Do you remember Herb Sargent, Gilbert? Yeah, he may have been. Older man, full of whitish hair.

He was much less so, Alan, but a mentor to me as well in later years. He's the greatest. Just a lovely man. Gave me some great gigs. Yeah, he was a legendary man. And he had produced, remember that was the week that was? Of course. Yes.

He produced that. He wrote for presidents. He wrote for presidents. He wrote for presidents. He did everything. I'd walk in. To know Herb Sargent was to be two degrees of separation from the world. I would go into his office. Ben Bradley would be there.

And Gloria Steinem was like the love of his life. And Art Buchwald, Mort Saul. I met Petty Chayefsky in his office. He knew everybody. He knew everybody. And he was the quietest man in the world, okay? He hardly ever opened his mouth. He'd just stand in the corner and observe.

He wore his glasses up here, his reading glasses. And Larry Gelbart once said, if Herb Sargent could talk, can you imagine the stories he'd tell? That's a good line. How some stuff sticks in my head. I remember the opening theme, just to the lyrics in the opening theme

of That Was the Week That Was. And it was, that was the week that was, it was that was the week that was it's over let it go yeah that's right remember the one who sang it was nancy ames that's right was the singer right very good and bob did buck henry was on that show as well and david frost it wasn't it was like he didn't he commute back and forth to England where he hosted it there? Sounds right. Tell us something about Buck, because Buck passed since you were last here. And obviously you were instrumental in getting him on this show, which we're grateful for.

He had a great time on your show. Oh, we were so happy to have him. And I know you were happy with him. And his widow, Irene, has since told me stories about how much it meant to him. That's great. You guys, Buck Henry, when he first came and he did the show, I was in awe. I used to hang out downstairs in 30 Rock when I used to run errands for my father, who manufactured jewelry. And his place was 52nd between 5th and Madison. So it was like three

blocks from 30 Rock. So when I'd run errands for him, I'd make sure every errand, either coming or going, I went by the lobby in 30 Rock and I'd hang out by the studio elevators because Johnny Carson had the Tonight Show upstairs. And that was the week that was was there. And I, there were people in that building doing what I wanted to do someday. And Buck Henry, I just had a natural affinity to him. He made me laugh on that show. Then I remember when the graduate came out, and he was the desk clerk. And if you remember, he was really funny, just looking at Dustin Hoffman, who said, I forgot my toothbrush you know and uh then I remember him going on the Tonight Show and just talking to um Johnny Carson for eight minutes about nothing and it was really hilarious and when he came on the show I remember being nervous

I was nervous because um it was Buck Henry and uh I knew I'd be working with him because I wrote Samurai Delicatessen. I drew from my days at the deli. Write what you know. Write what you know. You know, of course, the deli I worked in had a samurai guy behind the counter who would slice tomatoes with a sword. I wrote it and hung out with him. And as I got to know him, he loved words. He was the most well-read person, saw every movie in the world. And he was a sweet guy who, yet, when he would come to town, and this was before Giuliani cleaned up Times Square. I'm married to Robin at this point. When Buck would come to town and I'd go out with Buck alone,

Robin would find it necessary to hose me down before she let me back in the apartment. Because we went to all of these places with peep shows and this and a guy with a mop. We heard some stories about Buck. Well, there was a place he took me to call the Unicorn Follies. Okay. I like it already. Okay. So we're the only two men in there who was sitting with each other. It's all single guys and three seats over. It's that guy. But Buck and I are sitting next to each other. And performing was a, performing.

You tell me if this is a performance, was a woman named Monica Kennedy. And what was her big trick? Monica Kennedy would hike up her skirt, pull down her panties, drink water, and through a certain aperture, and I think you know which one I'm talking about, she would shoot water and put out the candle.

Gilbert, she opened for you, didn't she? Yeah. What's that? She opened for Gilbert. She opened for Gilbert. At Rascal's. At Rascal's. Yeah. So, I'm watching this and I'm going, wow, she put out the candle. This is amazing.

And then, okay, the show is over. The curtain closes. We're getting ready to leave. The curtain parts and Monica Kennedy sticks her head out and goes, Buck, you want to bring your friend backstage? Okay, he knew her. He would know who these people were. They'd address them by name. He was a patron of the arts, Alan. I understand.

Gilbert made him happy by singing the Captain Nice theme for Buck. Yeah, that's exactly right. The Captain Nice theme. It made him happy. Yeah. Remember, he did a show called Clark also. Yeah. Go ahead, Gil.

It's the man who flies around also yeah go ahead gil it's the man who flies around like an eagle who no look it's the man who flies around wait wait a minute oh look it's the man who flies around in pajamas it's oh fuck hands like hammers put runs with pajamas wasn pajamas. Wasn't that it? Wasn't that it? Something, something. Oh, oh, look, it's the man who flies around like an eagle. Look, it's the man who hates all.

That's illegal. Who is this man with arms built just like hammers? It's just some nut who flies around in pajamas. That's no nut, son. That's Captain Nice. We made him happy. We knew so much about him. Quick couple of questions from listeners, Alan.

Harold Steenworth says, did you ever see Dan Aykroyd's infamous webbed toes? Yes, I did. They were legendary. And it was one of those things i thought maybe there was like urban legend and then i wrote dragnet with uh dan so it was only after i left snl uh it was must have been about 10 ish years later we wrote a couple of drafts of the movie dragnet together and we did it up in um martha's vineyard so i lived him, and Dan was really into the characters. It was like I was living with Joe Friday,

and we would go into the hot tub and come out, and I saw his web toes then. Yes, he does indeed have them. Michael Alvarez, did Uncle Miltie's boy look more like an unsliced pepperoni or a tongue in a deli? Geez. The boy, I think you're talking about Mr. Wiggles?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Wiggles. I don't know. Anaconda. That's where I went with it right away. How did you see Farrah Fawcett?

Oh, yeah. Farrah Fawcett flashed you. It's in the book. I did a series, a very ill-fated series called Good Sports for CBS. This was after the Shanling show. Bernie called me up and said, you know, CBS wants a romantic comedy for Farrah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neill. And I said, no. I said, are they funny? No. Are they romantic? No. They were always like in the Globe or the National Enquirer, you know, fighting. And I

said, he says, well, you know, make believe you're writing it for Tracy and Hepburn. I said, well, it's different because Tracy and Hepburn were funny. They got along. They liked each other. They liked each other. So, okay, those are two important ingredients in romantic and comedy, okay? For the only time in my whole career, even things that never worked, you know, that failed, there was a nobility about why I did it.

This was the only time that I can remember that I ever did anything that went against the grain. This was, I did it because, you know, I was hot off the Shanling show. And if this was a big hit, you know, maybe I could become Rob Reiner or Jim Brooks. So that's the way it was presented to me. And so we had a supporting cast that had about four or five Tony Awards.

We had a writer's room that had at least a dozen Emmys in it. But it was one of those situations that the only reason the show existed was because of the two of them. And the only reason that the show failed was because of the two of them. And the only reason that the show failed was because of the two of them. When they would get in a fight, they lived together and they would bring it to the studio. And there was one particular morning where I was talking to Farrah in the studio. And she had had an argument with Ryan, who I didn't know was approaching behind me. And she made sure that he was at a certain point where he would see her pick up her shirt and flash me just to piss him off. OK. And by the way, that's not a lament on my part at all.

It's not a cry for help. It was like the greatest day of my life. But, you know, but yeah. So I saw Uncle Miltie's penis and I saw Farrah Fawcett's breasts. And you also got to work with, I'm looking up the credits of Good Sports. By the way, there's great stuff about Good Sports in the book. I found out things about you I didn't know that you had turned down running the Cosby show. I turned down running the Cosby show and I turned down running Roseanne.

I thought I knew you. Yeah. So when I was presented with this, Jay, on the off chance that this becomes like traffic pulls over to watch Farron Ryan on Tuesday nights, I didn't want to miss the party for a third time. So that went into my decision. Yeah, I believe they call those kind of performers writer killers. There you go. Yeah, and he called us career killers. It was a beautiful relationship.

Did he take a swing at somebody on the crew too? Yeah, I'll tell you, not only did he take a swing at somebody on the crew, that's the one credit that people on that crew and who are on that show left off of their resume, okay? That show is on in 1992, I want to say, and it wasn't until around, oh, 2008, 2009, that I was back on solid food.

Okay. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. to nine that I was back on solid food. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Wish you were a better investor? Then stop wishing and start listening. With Dynamic Funds On The Money podcast series, you'll get timely insights to help you become a savvier investor. From retirement planning and investing to the latest market trends, the On The Money with Dynamic Funds podcast series covers it all. Get On The Money.

Search On The Money with Dynamic Funds and follow today. What's 2FA security on Kraken? Search on the money with dynamic funds and follow today. and protect that lead. That's like 2FA on Kraken. A surefire way to keep what you already have safe and sound. Go to kraken.com and see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. See kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer for info on Kraken's undertaking to register in Canada. Tell us, just before we get out of here, because we were talking about Buck,

maybe my favorite sketch in the first five years is Lord and Lady Douchebag, which you and Franken and Davis. What had happened was I was in California the summer of 1976. It was the bicentennial summer. Lorne was producing a Beach Boys special for NBC. I was one of the writers on it, as were Belushi and Aykroyd, who were in it. And it was great fun.

We hung out with the Beach Boys, and it was a lot of fun. Al Franken and Tom Davis were also out there that summer. And they had a home that they rented in Laurel Canyon. And I remember going over there one night, and we were just talking. And it was coming back. We had to come back and do a couple of shows in late August. And I think one of them was hosted by Louise Lasser, as a matter of fact. I think. And then there was another one before we actually started the new season in September. So we were pitching ideas, and I suggested a party where anybody who had anything named after them was there.

So like the Earl of Sandwich, you know, and Lloyd Chesterfield, anybody who had something named after them. And we came up with, well, what if Lord and Lady Douchebag are at the party? Well, we were thrilled with it, and we went back, and we went back to New York, and the censor said, not on your life, there's not a chance in hell. And every year we would pitch the Lord and Lady douchebag sketch. And every year, look, the first guy that we had as a censor, his name was Jay Otley, really sweet guy, very funny. And he worked with us. okay? He would say, look, you know, my boss won't let me

do this. Maybe you could do it that way, do it this way. But he was adamant against Lord and Lady Douchebag. Then came a sense in named Jane Crowley, who was, I don't know, Margaret Dumont. Dresshield, you know, oh, professor, like that. She couldn't know a joke of a bitter in the ass, but she saw a douchebag and she ran for the hills. Finally, there was a guy named Bill Cloutworthy. And this was going to be our last show. It was the last show of the fifth season. And we pitched it and he let us do the Lord and Lady Douchebag sketch.

It's so great. They were all there, and the buck played the Lord Douchebag. Douchebag, how are you? I haven't seen you in the House of Lords in ages. Don't tell me for the first time in memory we're gonna have a Parliament without a douchebag. My dear sandwich, parliament has always had its share of douchebags and always will.

Spoken like a true douchebag. I have often heard the king say of your family and yours as well, give me a sandwich and a douchebag and there is nothing I cannot do. Hey, tell me, Douchebag, when are you going to show us that invention of yours? Yes, Douchebag, just what kind of an invention are you sitting on? Well...

It's, uh... It's a long story. Why don't we go out into the garden and I'll explain it to you? Tell me, did Lady Douchebag help you in the project? Hell, she was the inspiration. It's so wonderful. That's so funny. Clotworthy was the censor on my season.

Isn't that something? Oh, did you run afoul of him, Gilbert? Did you run afoul of him? Did you have issues with him, Gilbert? And I think right around the point where we lost you, Frank was asking about the uncle. Oh, I was asking you about Uncle Roy. Uncle Roy, you know something? I can't even imagine anybody trying to do that today.

No, sir. Or even thinking about it. trying to do that today. No, sir. Or even thinking about it. It was, and that's the sort of, I wouldn't say saving grace because that's not right either, but it was written by Rosie Schuster and Ann Beetz.

So there were two women writers who wrote Uncle Roy, who used to babysit his young nieces, Gilda and Lorraine, who had pigtails and they were playing like eight nine-year-old kids and he would take pictures of them as they slid down the banister and their legs were apart so their panties were it was you can't even think along those lines these days but buck i think they did it a couple of times i look at those sketches like ex-police the one about police brutality and that one.

And the things that you guys got away with when you were riding high on that wave of success. Well, it was, you know, Danny had a lot to do with it. Danny Ackroyd would come up with characters. Think about it. He had a character called Irwin Mainway. Oh, the best. He was a real sleazy kind of guy. Bag, yeah.

And he would try to sell his products, the best. It was a real sleazy kind of guy. Bag of glass. Yeah. And he would try to sell his products, you know, bag of glass. So this is fine for a kid. You know, chips of broken glass. Johnny Human Torch. The book, Alan, is Laugh Lines, My Life Helping Funny People Be Funnier. Forward by Billy Crystal. And you got a book that you did with Dave Barry, your pal Dave Barry and Adam Mansbach.

Yeah, that was a field guide to the Jewish people. Yeah. I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried. I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this... Shut the fuck up, both of you. Hey! This is Gilbert Gottfried. It has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast

with Frank Santopadre as my co-host. And we've been talking to the man who saw Milton Berle's cock. And most importantly, brought the film north. Hey! I was hoping you would have forgotten. To the big screen. We urge our listeners. Alan, swipe bell. the big screen. We urge our listeners to watch North.

I would be very curious. We have a lot of listeners, Alan. I'd be very curious to see what they think of North. You should take some sort of poll and see. Yeah, in a new context all these years later. The book is wonderful, full of great stories, touching stories, stories about your complex relationships with Gilda and Gary Shandling. It's practically a comedy writer's manual. Loved it. Thank you so much.

Tiffany Haddish movie with Billy. When are we going to see that? Well, now we don't know because it was going to be the fall, but now because of, you know, nobody's allowed to be together. So thank God it's in the can. And when it's ready and when people are ready to go to the movies again, I guess there will be a release date.

Okie doke. And 45 years since SNL, since you walked in that room and saw Gilda behind that plant. You bet. Almost a half century. Wow. Am I old? Wow. So Alan Schweibel.

Well, Gil, how'd you like our first Zoom episode? Woo! Excellent. Okay, thank you. Great job. Thank you, Alan. Thank you, Dara. Hey, thanks, guys.

This was great fun. Thank you. This is the theme to Gary's show. The theme to Gary's show. Gary called me up and asked if I would write his theme song. I'm almost halfway finished. How do you like it so far? How do you like the theme to Gary's show?

This is the theme to Gary's show. The opening theme to Gary's show. This is the music that you hear as you watch the credits. We're almost to the part of where I start to whistle. Then we'll watch it's Gary Shandling Show. This was the theme to Gary Shandling Show.