Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Bill Persky Encore

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

GGACP celebrates the birthday (September 9) of recurring guest and friend of the podcast, Emmy-winning writer-director-producer Bill Persky by presenting this ENCORE of his very first appearance back in 2014. In this episode, Bill talks about his working relationship with the late, great Carl Reiner, creating “That Girl” with partner Sam Denoff, directing episodes of "Kate & Allie" and "Welcome Back Kotter" and working with virtually EVERYONE in show business — including Julie Andrews, Tim Conway, Bob Hope, Gene Kelly, Mary Tyler Moore, Peter Sellers and Orson Welles (to name but a few). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You might not know the name of the name Bill Persky, but if you're familiar at all with the Dick Van Dyke show, Kate and Allie, that girl or any, uh, the Bill Cosby specials, your show of shows, specials by Bob Hope, you'll be aware of this Emmy award-winning writer, director, and actor. He's been, if you're talking about any classic television show, your chances are excellent that this guy's name is in the credits. If there's Anybody who knows about old show business, it's this next man. So we were thrilled to be able to have a chance to talk to him. Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Persky. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-star Frank Santopatra here on the amazing colossal podcast.

Hello, Gilbert. Hi. How are you? Yeah, don't talk to me. Did you get your wine? Yes, yes, I did. Now, you know, we have something unusual today because usually when you mention the word television comedy writer, you think of strapping young Episcopalians.

In what country are you thinking? We actually found an old Jew television comedy. writer. Shocking. We didn't have to go very far. Now, the name might not be familiar to people listening, but if you've listened to the following people and laughed at them, like people like Orson Wells, Peter Sellers, Sid Caesar, Julie Andrew, Sonny and Chair, Danny Thomas, Bob Hope, Mary Talomor, Alan King,

Steve Allen, Bill Cosby, Joey Bishop, Tim Conway, Harvey Cormann, Don Knott, Jay Leno, Martin Moll, Betty White, and George Segal, just to name a few. And that was my first week. And ladies and gentlemen, Bill Persky. Hello. It's funny because for so long it was like I was partners with Sam Denoff. You know, we were partners for 20 years. So sometimes people would call me Persky and Denna. But it's like when we were writing comedy back then,

I don't know if it's still true now, but the comedy writing teams were known as the boys. Didn't matter how old you were, the boys. That's like on Avin and Costello's TV show, it always made me laugh when Fred Sittfields would go, boys, boys. Well, the funniest is there was a meeting where one of the comedy writers, Larry Marks' partner, couldn't make it. And they went into the producer, and Larry Mark sat down, and the producer said, boys, they just, there was no individuals. It was boys. That's what you were.

And all the boys are now, like me, old boys. We should say, too, that we're in the Society of Illustrators right now at a showing for, Drew, the artist Drew Friedman. Oh, yes. We'll be coming up on a podcast. Yeah, his artwork is all over. It's unbelievable. Lining the walls.

And Billy was just walking around the room and saying, I've worked with almost every one of these people. Wow. And I'm still here in their pictures. Wow. Morrie, Amsterdam, looking right at me. I did the Van Dyke show. Oh, yeah.

And Mori. You know, the funny thing is when you have an audience show, you do a warm-up. and when Maury would do the warm-up, the show would get off to a very bad start. And Carl realized that Mori's humor was nothing like the humor in the show. Mori would have people screaming and laughing,

and then the show would start, and it would be nice. It would be about life. It would be funny. It would, you know, there would be no schick in it all. And Carl said, Mori, you're not doing the warm-ups anymore. He said, that crazy about me.

He says, you're a hit, The show is dying. So, Maury was that strong? Mori was, I think Mori was the fastest. I think Mori was one of the fastest joke people I ever met. I mean, you know, you didn't finish the setup before he. And you also, Tom Leopold was on, who is one of the funniest people I ever met. And Tommy is a kind of a writer who, as he's telling you the joke, he rewrites it,

and it becomes a different joke out of his mouth. I said, what happened to the original thing you were going to say? He said, I got tired of it. Now, I heard Mori also used to write for Rosemary. Yes, yes. They had a great, great relationship. You know, another thing, here's an interesting thing about Mori. Mori played Las Vegas when they first opened it,

before anybody even got killed there. And he played a club. And he shot craps, and he had a great run, and he made about $20,000. And so he didn't, he said, what am I going to do with this? His wife said, let's buy some property. So back in the early 40s, Mori bought about 12 square blocks of downtown Las Vegas. It was a desert then, you know? and then it was worth billions of dollars.

But that's because, you know, if they'd had a jewelry store, his wife would have probably want it. They didn't have anything there except desert. So he bought desert. They didn't even have dinner in those days. One thing I always want to know was Mori, was Mori's character, was Buddy Sorrell based on a real person because Sally Rogers was supposedly partially based on Selma Dime?

Yeah. No, Mori was just based on funny. He was an amalgam of several people. And he wasn't? Mori never understood, he understood where the humor was. You didn't understand stories particularly. He didn't care. He didn't care.

But he was, he was delightful. He was the sweetest man. I never heard him say a bad thing about anybody, you know. Well, if you own 12 blocks of Las Vegas, what are you going to do? Who are you going to be mad at? Now, can you tell us how you started out in this long writing career you've had? I got a job for $30 a week at WNEW Radio back in 1955 as an assistant. I got an ad, it was an ad in New York Times, and it was for an assistant in the continuity department.

I had no idea what the continuity department was. And I went up there in this guy, said, okay, write a jingle and write a funny thing. And then he went out to lunch. And I was sitting there and I said, I don't know how to write a jingle. So I wrote a jingle and I did a thing. And I got the job for $30 a week.

And I still had no idea what the continuity department was. That guy had gone out to lunch to interview for another job. So when he came back, he had that job. I was now head of the continuity department. And I had no idea. I went in four hours from being in the continuity department to being the continuity department. So what it actually was is, you know, the disc jockey. And back then, W&W was a radio station.

There was nothing like it. It had William B. Williams and it had Claven and Finch in the morning. I mean, these are classic, you know, the make-believe ballroom, the milkman. They invented the music and news format. So the continuity department was that every disc jockey show had a book, like a notebook. And the first thing was, hi, how are you? It's the date and the weather is this. And then now we're going to play so-and-so, and then the commercial.

And it was really just putting the book together. It was the most tedious job in the world. So I didn't know where I'd just start to write little jokes. And then I had to hire somebody to be my assistant who would also not know what the continuity department was. And Sam Deneff came in. And Sam had been the bargain broadcaster at Klein's department store, which is not even there anymore. But he used to make the announcement, Ladies, there is a truckload of fancy Italian shoes on the seventh floor.

And people would run. and they kill one another to get there. And he got fired because one day he said, ladies, we have two truckloads of maiden form brassiers, and this is a bust out sale. And that was the end of him. So then he came to work. So then the two of us started to put the jokes on,

and the guys would laugh at them. And then William B. Williams started to read them, and the head of the station said, that's fun, you guys do that, right? So you're writing jokes for the disc jockeys? Yeah, we were writing jokes for the disc jockeys. And then there was a Christmas party, and Sam and I wrote a show that we did.

You know, a satire thing was fun. And this kid came up to us, and he said, I would like to represent you. I'm with the William Morris office. I'd like to be your agent. And, I mean, the thought of that was just, there was never dawned on us that that could happen. And we said, well, that's great. And he said, well, I don't have my cards yet because I just got out of the mail room today.

I said, I don't care if you're still in the mail room or if you ever get cards. And it turned out that was George Shapiro. George Shapiro is Jerry discovered Jerry Seinfeld, and he's Jerry Seinfeld's manager. He discovered Andy Kaufman. I mean, George Shapiro is probably the most successful manager, and he was our agent. And in those days, everyone in the Mars office was short, you know, because Mr. Lasfogel, who owned the agency, he was short, and he never wanted to go like that. He always wanted to look down at people, so when you're talking.

And they were killers. They were short little killers going around. And George was the toughest. guy in the world when we started writing stand-up stuff for comics you've never heard of and he would say the boys get a hundred dollars up front or not a word goes on paper and the guy said well we don't know if they're funny he said would I represent them if they weren't so that's how we got started and our first check we ever got there was a comedian by the name of jimmy Casanova.

Jimmy Casanova. That didn't mean anything to you, Gilbert? So now we meet with Jimmy Casanova. I swear this is the truth. And we said we have a great idea for a routine based on your name.

And he said, what's funny about Jimmy? As I said, comics you've never heard of for good reason. But the funniest is we wrote them a whole thing. he did at one of those wedding chapels out on Queens Boulevard, you know, with the dinner and everything in the show. And he was awful. The food was awful. I think that the bride and groom

probably got divorced. They were awful. And he owed us $500 because we did five minutes. So he signed over a check for $650 that was a settlement. from an insurance claim he had for an accident he had in the revolving door at Bloomingdale. But he owed us five, and the check was for $6.50, and he wouldn't take a check.

We had to give him cash. And so then we started writing for just anybody that George could find him. We wrote for Ron Carey when he was in high school. Wow. And he was hilarious. and we wrote for a series of teams. There were a lot of teams then.

Everybody wanted to be the next Martin and Lewis, which there never was, obviously. But we wrote for Taylor and Mitchell, and then Taylor and Stewart, and Taylor and Stewart broke up and it became Taylor and somebody else and Taylor and somebody else, and Taylor and somebody else.

And finally, we said, you know, the problem is Taylor. So the last guy he was, worked with. Mitchell was really good. And so he got a new partner. And they were represented by Joe Scandori, who was also Don Rickles agent. And, you know, Rickles was just getting started them. But Joe Scandory's biggest thing was that he was the manager and the son-in-law of the owner of the Elegante nightclub on Ocean Parkway, which was the off-broadway version of the Copa. In other words, it was very connected and a lot of people started there and stuff.

But that was, Joe brought all of his acts in and we would write stuff for them. And the first thing we wrote was for Mitchell and Sean, who we wrote a thing hot off the front page about astronauts. They had just announced that there would be astronauts. Now, am I talking? Not at all, no. I mean, I want to hear. No, you're like my perfect guest. Oh, okay.

Where you just put you there and I can take a nap. Okay. I'll put you to sleep. So, anyway, you got to understand a little thing about the eleganthe. It was, on the weekends, it was a big date place, right? But they kept it open during the week by selling the concept that, your organization could have their celebration or their swearing into their officers or their dance or whatever it was. And it was $20 a couple and you got dinner and drinks and a show.

And it was great. The only thing is they told like five different organizations that they had the club. So when they got there, it was a mob. I mean, you'd have the German-American bun sitting next to an A. Britt. You know? So you literally you literally had these people who hated one another and they hated the club because they thought well this is our event. We're having the swearing in. So the first thing is Joe would send everybody a bottle of wine and then there was a guy who when the show can, the food was great. Although I must say I never

had anything but veal parmesan here. Joe would say He'd talk like this And he'd say Give the boys whatever they want So you look at the menu And we'd order lobster And we'd order this

And by the time the show started And you know And you were eating And it was dark And I said This lobster tastes like It's got cheese on it So

Everything I ever ordered Ended up being Veal Parmesan But at any rate The the emce which was like he was the first seal team member i mean that's how courageous you had to be to go up in front of this mob and try and turn him into an audience he was fearless and then the show would come on and they'd have a dance team and then they'd have this italian woman i forget her name

and she would she would make fart sounds during her song she sang all these great italian songs class show and doing things like that. And she was doing that. And we were writing Blue Angel type material. So we wrote this thing about the first astronaut and they went out

and nobody knew what an astronaut was. We thought we were so current but no one knew what it was and they're talking, I'm up here on the moon and people are looking and say, what the what's he doing on the moon?

What's Houston? They had no idea. So now, and I, you know, these, I wrote a book about my life called My Life in Situation Comedy, so these stories are all in it, but they're relevant because they happen. And I always said in those days, every nightclub, they were all tough places. I mean, I'll just digress for a second. Joey Bishop was on the road in Scranton, outside of Scranton, working at a nightclub. And in the middle of his act, two guys came in and held the place up.

Bishop panics. And they said, keep talking, kid. So he's talking, and people, they're going around, taking everybody's money and everything. And then they finish and they start to leave. And they said, you're good. Keep going. And now they sit down. They got guns.

And he finishes doing his act. And on the way out, they toss him a warrant. that they just stole from something else. So in those days, the nightclub business was really tough because a lot of the smaller joints were really strippers, and they didn't care about the comics. They came out while the girl went on to put on new clothes to take off. And anyway, oh, God, they were great days, great days.

So I said, and it's true, you call any nightclub in America, and say, is Rocco there? And they'll say, speaking or just a minute. At the elegante, it was so tough, they said, which one? They literally had two Roccoes. How much time did you guys spend writing for comics before you mean? You were able to jump to TV. Five years.

And the first TV gig was the Steve Allen show? Yeah, but I got to tell you one, because I'm looking at Marty Allen. Alan on the wall. Our big breakthrough was that we were going to write for Alan and got a chance to write for Alan and Rossi. George said, because we had gotten a reputation already, you know. So they were like it. And this was at the Copa. And we're sitting ringside at the Copa and drinks and stuff and everything.

And they go on and I hated them. I, you know, it's like, it's like, I wouldn't have wanted to write for them if they paid me. It's like the comedy version for me of going on a cruise with a whole bunch of people I didn't invite, you know. And now, here I am, and I'm thinking, oh my God, I just, then what are you going to say? say, you know. So they come off and their shirts are open and people are doing and I'm sitting there and I'm saying to say what the hell

are we going to say in these guys. So they come over and they're giving us, huh? Wiping sweat off, throwing it at us and everything and they says, so what do you think? And I said, you sure do 45

minutes. And they took that as the biggest compliment in the world. Yeah, well, You know, all I did was tell them how long they were wrong. We just interviewed Marty Allen last week, though. I don't care. So we'll be sure to run these two back to the back. I don't care.

I'll tell them to his face. I hated them. I hate. We'll run these two consecutively. We should have had you on together. No, I hate because, you know, there's certain people you say you can write for. Yes. I mean, I've got no more right for them than, you know, for Hitler.

It's the first time. I would have actually done all right with him. I mean, I could have thought it. I didn't want to know where to start with them, you know. I'm a man who wrote about the first astronaut. It's the first time I've heard of Alan and Rossi compared to Hitler. No, he was a very sweet guy, God knows. But it's just like, I'm saying, God, I don't think they're funny.

What are we going to do, you know? Oh, Jesus. Now, and then you started grinding for him. That first big break was Dick Sean. Oh, okay. Was Sean half of that comedy team? No, no, no, no, I just. Mitchell and Sean.

I just thought Dick Sean that sounded like a comedy team. But Dick Sean was this great comic, and his manager was a guy by the name Pierre Cassette, and he saw something that we did, and he was a friend of Joe Scandori's, and he said, those guys are good, and Dick needs a hunk. And so we said, we met him,

and Dick wanted to do something. Lolita had just come out, the thing. And he said, I want to do something about Lolita. So we wrote a 20-minute musical comedy version of Lolita for him. And we saw him do it only once down at the Doeville in Miami. And he was brilliant in it. And as a result of that, George moved out to L.A. in television after he had set us up with all these comics and stuff.

And he went out to do the Steve Allen show. And he said, I'm going to get you to California and be on television. That's my next assignment. And sure enough, the Steve Allen show came up, and he was the agent on it, and he talked us up. And so he said, I want you to send some material to Bill Dana was going to be the producer. He said, I want you to send some material to Steve. So by that time, we had 10 pounds of comedy material.

So we packed it up and we sent it to Steve. He was in San Francisco. And by the time it got to San Francisco, he had already left. So they said, well, send it to Bill Dana. He's in Vegas. So then they sent it to Bill Dana in Vegas, and he had left. So Steve was that, it went to about 11. cities. No one ever

saw it. So your package was following. No, and ever saw it. I don't think we ever made back the postage. But anyway, with all that's going on, and there's so much talk about it,

well, the material's here, and it weighs a ton, and so, and Steve and so and so, and George is talking us up, and we get the job without anybody ever seeing the material. And I swear to God, this This is the truth. I had an apartment on 81st Street, West 81st Street, and by now I was earning $75 a week at W&W, which back then was, you know, pretty good. You know, that was when you say, I remember a bunch of guys sitting around saying, what would you like to earn? And I said, I would, well, the biggest thing you could earn was 100 a week. I mean, there was no more money in the world than $100 a week. That was it.

And so I was sitting with a bunch of guys, and they said, what would you like to someday earn? I said, I would like to earn my age every year. And they said, you mean when you're 35, you want to be earning $35,000 a year? I said, yeah. I said, what are you crazy? Who would? I said, I would sign with the devil right now to just earn my age every year. So 75, they gave us $500 a piece, but a guarantee for three weeks.

and then we were picked up for three more weeks and then if it worked out we'd be picked up for three more my wife was pregnant and Sammy and I just said you know what this is it it's never going to get any easier never going to suddenly arrive we got to take the shot and do it so as I'm leaving the apartment to get into the cab to go to the airport a postman shows up

with this package covered in stamps. Now weighs 11 pounds just from the postage. And it was the 10 pounds of material, which proves that it's more important to have 10 pounds of comedy material than for anybody to ever see it. So you really got the job on the strength of George, of George convincing. And Sam had worked as a.

Page with Bill Dana. So he knew, they knew each other, but not in any great friendship, but it was enough. But George, George was just great. He wouldn't give up. So we went out there. My wife was pregnant. And we had it three weeks, and it was scary. And Buck Henry was the other writer who came out from New York with us. He was doing an off-Broadway show. So we went out there together. And on the first show, this kid who Steve had heard about in Cleveland came on, Tim Conway, and who was it? Bill Dana or George or somebody had seen the Smothers Brothers. So they were on the first show. So that was the first things that they ever did. And Sam and I wrote a piece for Bill Dana.

about the protocol something in the news about somebody coming to Washington and the protocol. So we wrote a thing about the protocol man and he was the protocol man. It was one of my favorite jokes too. And in the sketch

he was dictating a letter to his secretary. And he said, take a letter to the Shah of Zolzine. Dear Zolzine Shah. Which only the Jews makes it. Tim didn't understand what the hell it was. He said, I have a piece.

Just went over my head, too. He said, well, Zolzine Sharmin, shut up. I know it in Italian. Yeah. And so Tim said, well, I have something I'd like to do. And that was that. How did this show only lasted five weeks? Well, the funny thing is we're there.

The first we did the thing for Tim and he didn't want to do it. So we're not scoring very big. whatever. And now the third week is coming up and we don't know if we're going to get picked up. And if we don't, what the hell is going to happen to us? You know, we had $1,500 a piece and that was it. And we did a sketch on the show Ben Casey, which was a big, the first of the medical shows with Vince Edwards and Stanley and Sam Jaffe Yes

Not with the diaper from He didn't wear the diaper from Gunga Den He was playing the The head doctor Dr. Zorba And so And Joey Foreman, you know Joey? Did you know Joey Foreman? Great impressions

I know him from Get Smart Yeah he was He was on the show, and Steve was playing Ben Casey, and Joey was playing Dr. Zorber with a fright wig that was about 11 feet high. And so the opening of Ben Casey was that there would be a blackboard, and on it were these chalked figures. And he had a pointer at the beginning of the show, and Dr. Zorba would say, this is the sign for. for man, this is the sign for woman, this is birth, this is death, and this is infinity. So the sketch, and this one joke saved my life. Show opens, this is the sign for man, this is the sign for woman, this is bite, this is death, this is infinity, and this is a

pussycat. And it was just a little chalk figure of a pussy cat. And when Steve saw that, he got so, Steve used to cackle when something pleased him. He just cackled. And he said,

pick him up. So we got picked up for the whole season, and they were canceled on the fifth show. And we got 26 weeks of 500, and it allowed us to stay. Can I be, can I, Can I maybe bring the interview to a dead halt?

I don't care. This is a drawing I made when I was a teenager. Yes. And that's amazing. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I'm surprised you got to your 20s. If you see here.

Birth, death, infinity. No, birth. Man, woman. When? Birth. Birth. Death and infinity. Oh, that's hysterical.

Yes. Where's the pussycat? Because I used to watch Ben Casey. Oh, that's so funny. And I remember Ben Casey was on opposite Dr. Kildare. Yes. And they even had like training cards for Ben Casey and Dr. Kildare with the gum in them. Yes.

Wow. But that was that was the joke. literally that saved my life. I mean, I don't know. If we hadn't done that, we probably wouldn't have been picked up, and God knows what would have happened after that, you know. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor.

And how did you make the leap from, or jump around a little bit, though, from the Steve Allen show, gets canceled in five weeks. You get paid for 26. Yes. Tell us about the Van Dyck show and meeting. Well, that was. There was a lot of scared time in between that.

Oh, tell us the bowling alley story real quickly. Oh, God. Well, the first, really, next show that we got was the Andy Williams Show. And that had, as its head writer, a guy been named him of Mort Green, who was known as Velvet Mort. Because all of his sport coats had velvet collars. And with his partner, he had written Perry Como and the craft music. They were really big guys. Well, this was at the other end of his career.

And then also on the show was one of the great comedy legend writers of all time, Harry Crane. I don't know if you know about Harry Crane, but he was the funniest. You know, and they say about comedy writers, nicest guy in the world can't write his name. Or funniest man in the world. Don't turn your back on. Well, Harry Crane was the second verse. He was funny.

And he was so crafty. And the thing about Harry was he was so brilliant. He didn't have to do all the stuff that he did to manipulate, you know. So we're on the show, and we're like the junior writers. This is on the Andy Williams show. On the Andy Williams show. And the first reading. were doing a lot of the work, but we were not in any power position. We were lucky to go. That show was

produced by Bud York and Norman Lear. And George had introduced us to them, and they had seen some stuff we did, and they liked us, and I owe them a lot. And, but anyway, we were just buried in the whole thing. And the first reading of the script with the network and the whole bunch of people around. And we had heard about Harry and be careful with Harry. And, and Mort, was, there was a war between them for power and stuff. And so they do the first reading. And on the second page, there's a huge laugh. And Harry says to the room, the boys wrote that.

So I turned to Sam. I said, you know, people are wrong about him. That's, what a nice thing. He never said it again. We were there for an hour and 20 minutes, about 100 pages, and about, 50 other jokes that were hysterical that we wrote. But he never mentioned it again. So we were not high on the list. So the show got canceled anyway. And Harry had managed to survive. And, you know, he was very outspoken about it. He said, guys, I had to make some sacrifices. You'll learn

along the way. You'll do great. So on, so on, so on. So now my baby is born. I've got a rented convertible. I don't know where the next dollar is coming from. There's a rap party. Did you ever go to a rap party

where you were not wanted? You know that feeling where everybody, and you're the people who are not coming back. Several. And you're not the catererers.

So what the hell are you doing? So the only person who was nice to us at the rap party was Claudia. Jean Lange, who was Andy's wife, and I would have gone as a character witness for her in the murder trial.

I said, if she killed him, he deserved her. So, anyway, we're now supposed to meet these two comedians at the Covina Bowling Alley. They're playing the lounge. It's pouring rain. don't have a job. I'm in the car. I'm thinking, I got to bring the car back one. And go on and got lost. Who goes to Covina? You know? And go under the Covina bowling alley. We pull in. There's no parking near the place. It's pouring. We don't have umbrella. Who has umbrellas in California, right? So we're walking. We get into the place. It's soaking wet. The air conditioning is up. I'm

freezing. And the guys are on in the lounge. We got there late. And they're working. And every punchline, it seems, someone hits a strike. And the pins are flying and the people are screaming. And so no one laughs at them because they're not hearing anything, you know. And so we sit down with these two guys afterwards. It was the most depressing drink I've ever had. It was Rowan and Martin.

Oh, wow. Rowan and Martin Now you were telling me a story If you could tell this one About the great Jan Murray Oh Jan Murray Jan Murray Had a grandchild

And he was so excited And the whole family was excited But he was going up For a part in a movie So he came home the baby had just been born and he comes in, he gets everybody together, they're in the

hospital, and he says nobody can say anything about the baby. He said, well, what do you mean? We just had, no, no announcements, nothing, I'm up for a part in a movie. I don't want them to know I'm a grandfather. It'll screw everything up. Just don't say

anything about the baby. But it's the happiest, I'm thrilled. I couldn't be having it. Don't tell anybody we have the baby. Well, she'll be good. No, shut up. Use a strange name. I have the meeting tomorrow until at least tomorrow there can be no grandchild. Do you understand? And the family's fighting his wife wants to kill me. She's what kind of a person are you? You're just at a grandchild. You haven't even seen it. I don't want to see it. I don't want to know it. It doesn't exist. So now, he goes in the next day to the meeting, and he walks in and the producer looks and he says, oh, Jan, yeah, what?

He said, I don't know, for some reason I thought you were older. He said, are you kidding? I'm a grandfather. I'm great. Oh, I tell you. And I don't think, I don't know, God bless. all the guys who are around today and they're brilliant. But there just, there isn't the, the subs, that's not the word.

I mean, Jerry Seinfeld is brilliant and all those people are brilliant. But there just, there isn't the suffering in the same way. There isn't the struggle in the same way as the great old guys had, you know, and there was just, Phil Foster here. Yeah. Phil Foster, one of the sweetest guys in the world. He traveled with a, his manager was, what the hell was his manager? Great guy.

They traveled with this guy who was a musician. And he was the first guy to get polio. You know, people say, when did you get polio? He said, the day it came out. And Vernon Duke, Vernon Duke. Vernon Duke And Harry Moore That's who Phil's manager was

Honey I don't have Alzheimer's yet I'm remembering old names And so They were crazy They were funny So now they took Duke everywhere And he had these canes that he walked with And he was

He used to play his fingernails When music was on he had long fingernail, and he would use him like symbol then. He was great. So they would always play tricks on him, right? So once they took him to the Meadowbrook, Frank Daly's Meadowbrook, they drove up, they dropped him out of the car into the guy's arms, the doorman. They said, what am I going to do? He said, take him inside. He loves the dance. I mean, so now, now. Now, They're driving cross-country, and every night that they stop, they shave a little bit off of Duke's canes. Just about an eighth of a month.

By the fourth night, he's like about three-quarters of an inch. And he's being very strange in there saying, what's wrong, do we say, he said, I don't want to say nothing they said well what what I think I'm growing Harry Morton got a Volkswagen he was the first one he said you can't believe the mileage

in this thing he said they really aren't good you know and said so Phil Foster every night went and put gas in his car he was up to 150 miles a gallon I got to be talking too much. No, no such you think.

I haven't even gotten started yet. You want to tell us about the Van Dyke Show and how Carl Reiner your mentor came into your life? Oh, my God, yes. Well, everybody wanted to write for the Van Dyke Show. And in those days, you would write a sample script. Now you really can't do that because they won't. look at it because they'll say you're, you know, if we come up with a similar idea and you

got to have an agent to submit it and most young writers can't get an agent until they got a job and you can't get a job until you get an agent. But back then there were guys like George who loved finding people and were proud of them. Ronnie Meyer, who is now the president of Universal, was my agent after Ronnie and after George. And he took such pride in my work. And he took such pride in my work. I mean, he loved it, and he loved when I'd get a job, and he loved when I won an award, and, you know. But at any rate, we wrote this sample Van Dyke,

and George got it to call, and it was not really good. But it, I mean, it was stupid, but Carl thought there was enough in it that maybe we should have a meeting with him and Sheldon Leonard. So simultaneously, Tim Conway was now on McAil's Navy, and so he got us a script on McAil's Navy. And in those days, it's like if you did variety, you couldn't do situation comedy. You were very much stratified.

And it's like if you did television or movies, you couldn't do the theater. I always said it was like a cake. Television was at the bottom, movies was in the middle, and the theater was on top. You could fall down the cake, but you couldn't fall up there. You know, I mean? So to break through to the next level was really hard. So Tim got us this script for McHale's Navy, which we wrote.

And incidentally, three weeks ago, I got a check for 37 cents from Guam for the McCall. Cal's Navy. Which I had to send my ex-wife 16 cents. Wow. It was 17, whatever the hell it was. So I said, go have a party. And she, on all the checks that she gets, she calls up the billing department and asks for an accounting.

I'm so embarrassed. I said, it's from heaven. You don't deserve it. You're lucky. You're not dead in the country. street from how mean you were and you're calling up that girl and marlowe began saying how can there be still such legal fees on that girl and i say it's for the DVDs which didn't exist when i wrote it the technology wasn't there this is like magic what are you can why are you check just

hide it don't tell anybody they'll come they'll come take it all away from us because we don't deserve it. Don't you understand. Oh, that's great. So anyway, we're doing the McHale's Navy, and there was a, the producer was a guy named is Cy Rosen, who was a very nice guy, but he was such a stickler. Who I worked for later in life. You did.

Tough. I mean, it was a very irritating voice. Story for another day. Very slow. So now we go to Universal for that meeting, and on every page. of the script why did you put and in that third

speech well because it was a series of things and it was the last one and so and so I said well can you kind of find another way to do that well there is no so now we got there at 9 o'clock in the morning

and you go to lunch at this Chinese restaurant and I said to Sam we're never going to do it we can't do it if this is what it's like and we had turned the script into Carl too already at that point waiting to hear on that we spent

five hours going over a 30 page script so humiliating so depressing and we had an office everything is a story

we had an office that was at the end of a corridor and it was a little room and there were a couple other offices along the way and our office was so small that I had to sit in the hallway because Sam would sit

at the typewriter and it was about as wide as this but the big attraction was it had a bathroom the bathroom was bigger but also over the desk was a huge picture of Mount Fuji with shutters like you could open the shutters and see Mount Fuji and next to us

next to us was Ellis Gold Productions of a guy who handled porn stars now unfortunately he was up there and my back was turned through all the time Sam could look out and he's looking out like this and I didn't want to embarrass my so anyway we now get back to the office and we're just sitting there and the phone rings and it's Carl and I'm not ready to hear this right and Sam said yeah oh hi Carl he said yeah

no kidding oh yeah tomorrow yeah yeah and I said what what he said Carl said it's the best script he read he wants us to come he's going to give us an office and we can write as many shows as we can handle

and that was all in the course of one day and wasn't the Dick Van Dyck show originally basically the Colorado yeah it was a pilot that Carl did for himself but Carl you know Carl

I met him Carl is the gift of the world I mean this man there is nobody like him in the world he is the most I could take three hours

but he's the funniest the sweetest the most honorable the toughest I mean tough in terms of integrity and stuff because the first show we wrote was about them thinking they had the wrong baby and it ended up we were at the you know this is 1962 and we had this great show was really funny

it was based on the fact that when I had my first child we got some flowers that were meant for somebody else and some candy and I said how do we know we got the right kid you know there was no DNA there was but they didn't use so there was no way no so here we have this thing and there were hilarious things that did did in it and when we got to the end we said we got to have something that everybody knows that it's the right kid so the only thing you could do was have it be a different ethnic mix so we always thought well we'll use Asian you know but Carl said you know what let's make them black well this was unheard of at that time I mean the racial tension and the the country and stuff.

So, great. So he went to the network, saw the script and said, well, you can't do that. And he said, why? They said, well, the country is going through a change. And I don't think the country is yet ready for a white couple to be making fun of a black couple. And Carl said, no, no, you don't understand. this is the black couple making fun

of the white couple and the guy said, well, they're certainly not ready for that. And the funny thing is when we did the show, there was an audience. And if the ending didn't work, because we didn't really know what to expect,

and if the ending didn't work, we were going to have to reshoot with an Asian couple or whatever. And it was really important, And it turned out to be a major important breakthrough in television, and that's Carl Reiner and his guts, you know. And we did the show in front of an audience, about 300 people, and I was standing next to Carl. And when the door opens, and Dick just does a take, and then he says, come in, and in comes Greg Morris. From Mission Impossible.

It's impossible. And this, forget the young woman's name, but they come in and there is a deadly silence, long enough for Carl to say to me, oh, shit. And then a laugh started that went on for 20 minutes. every time we quieted the audience down and did it over again, they would start over again. We couldn't get the show finished because they kept finding new levels

on which it was funny. So that was the first Van Dyke show we did, but we went from this nightmare in the morning to this incredible experience. And we wrote 14 Van Dyke shows that first season. and wrote 48 overall and, you know, wrote on Muslim. It produced the last half of the fifth season because Carl went to do the...

Oh, the Russians are coming. They turned the show over to you and Sam pretty much. Yeah, and it was fine. Mary and Dick, love it, but Richard Deacon never accepted us. Richard Deacon and Rosemary never liked us. And so when we came to the first reading, where we were producing the thing. We used to sit at the table,

and Carl would sit at one end, and Sam and I would sit at the other end, and Sheldon Leonard, who was the executive, but he'd sit on a director's chair behind us, and you could always tell how the show is doing, because Sheldon would, if he didn't like something, he would breathe. And we were the only ones that knew that he didn't like it, Because he was breathing on us, you know.

Anyway, the first show that we produced, we walk in and we're saying, what are we going to do? We're not going to sit in Carl's seat. We'll just stay in our seats and we'll leave it empty. So that's what we did. And we get there and we start the reading and the phone rings. And Richard Deacon picks it up. And he said, just a minute. It's for Carl Reiner.

and he gave me the phone. The person said, is this Carl Reiner? And I said, no, ma'am, it's not Carl Reiner, but I'm doing the very best they can. And that kind of broke the eyes. Do we through? Did I, is it still Tuesday? I think we have a couple more minutes.

I forgot what you sound like. You haven't asked me anything. Say something. Say something. Most people wish they forget what I sound like. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. The first time I saw Gilbert's act, he was doing a Ted Bessel bit. Oh, Ted Bessel.

And I know you were friends with Ted Bessel. I'm sure Gilbert's interested. Ted Bessel was one of the funniest comedians. Wow. He was so funny. I mean, he was one of the funniest people I ever met. He was the, oh, he was great. He's also a brilliant athlete and a terrific actor.

He did that show, a man's world. Remember a man's world? Oh, the title sounds like. Yeah, it was a bunch of guys living on a houseboat and going to college in the middle of India. Gilbert, you're now with, and suddenly I'm embarrassed. I know. Ask him about me and the chin. He'll know that.

Oh, yeah. That killed, Teddy. For people who don't know, Ted Bessel was the boyfriend of Marlo Thomas on that girl. That's right. And the most popular co-star on television, every young girl wanted to marry Donald Hollinger. He was the best guy. And it's funny because Teddy had a picture. he had his regular

his autographed picture thing but then he had one made because so much of the show was on over shoulders and stuff with Marlowe that he had his publicity picture from the back no one's going to recognize my face he was great Teddy

Teddy was terrific who were some of the people you've hated in the business Would you talk about any of them? You know? He's already given you Marty Allen. No, no, hold it. Hold it.

I didn't hate Marty Allen. I hated their act. There's a difference. There is. There's a difference. No, there's a difference. I mean... I'll never play this show for Marty.

Ted Cruz from Texas. I hate him. I hate his act. There's a difference. Marty Allen, nice man, didn't like his act. You know what I mean? You have to differentiate these things. My first wife, the whole package.

We haven't gotten partway through my career. I think I can help you out with Gilbert's question, though. Someone you worked with in a pilot called Baby I'm Back. Oh, God, yes. And he won't listen to this podcast, Bill. No, well, I hope. Well, the funny thing, it was DeMond Wilson, who was the son on Sanford's son. Lamont.

Yes. And so he did a pilot of a show called Baby I'm Back about a guy who had left his wife and came back and so on. I remember this. Yes. Denise Nicholas. Denise Nicholas. And it was written by, oh, God, I'm so embarrassed I can't. One of the really terrific women writers at the time, producer writers, who lived with Mort Laughman.

Not Trevor Silverman. No, no, no, no. It was, at any rate, so he was just awful. And it was. There you go. No, no. Harry, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, Harry, Harry Crane, line that will be the last thing because it has to do with this.

Yeah. But anyway, I go in and it was early on. I mean, Sanford and Sun had been on, but there weren't a lot of shows with blacks and white people running them, you know what I mean? Bernie Ornstein and Saul Turtle Tap did Sanford and Son, and they got along great because Red was just a terrific guy. And, but DeMond Wilson, Lamont. DeMond.

Demand. Yeah. DeMond Wilson. Oh, you're a big dummy. I walk in, and he's being, he's being really unpleasant. And everybody has taken their cue from him, you know. And we start reading, and I start talking, and he's looking, he's saying, yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh. I said, let's get something straight.

You know how to be black. I know how to be funny. You take care of that. you take care of that and I won't interfere and I'll take care of this and you don't interfere so at any rate

he carried a gun he carried a gun because he was such a big star he had to protect themselves so the producer what's her name oh god I can't remember

she'll never speak to you again She says to me I understand that Taman is carrying a gun I said, yeah, apparently so. She said, well, tell him he can't. I said, I said, no. The producer tells him he can't.

The director tells him how to hold it. So anyway, they were doing, They were doing a Dean Martin roast in Vegas that Harry Crane did all the headwriting. He was big with Harry, with Dean and Frank. They loved him. So DeMond Wilson comes down, and now they got Orson Wells on the panel. They got Frank Sinatra. They have Stephen Eadie.

They have the whole world, and they had them up for some reason in the moment. He comes down. His limo isn't big enough. He won't lead the airport. he wants a stretch they got to get a stretch he gets to the thing as sweet as it

he is nothing but a pain in the air so finally and then the writing he didn't like the jokes and everything and so Harry says to him demand

I see the way you're acting here you're a pretty big star right he said you bet your ass I am he said he says you know and you know a lot of big stars He said, yeah.

He says, you have pictures with him? He said, yeah. He said, keep them for the wall of your car wash. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Well. Great stuff, Bill. This, this has been the fastest and easiest show I've ever done. We didn't do anything.

I'm having a good time, right? Yeah. I, I, I. You don't want to hear more about the marriage? I'll. You'll have to come back. You don't want to hear about the fact that it ended in an improvisation in an acting class? Okay.

Next time. I'm not going to tell you that. Next time. You'll tell us about Orson Wells next time. Oh, my God. Oh, yes. And everybody. We didn't scratch the surface of the things you have to talk about. No, it's true.

I just have had the most wonderful, wonderful experiences. I mean, I really have. and when you say anybody I didn't like, I really, I can't, I can't think. Well, I didn't like Sidney Beckerman. Between now and the time you come back, could you make a list of people you didn't like? Well, this is, finally I get a chance to talk on my own podcast. This is the amazing colossal podcast. I'm Gilbert Gottfried with Frank Santopatra,

and we've been talking to the great Bill Persky. And it has been so much fun. I've learned so much about you. I mean, there are things that came out that I think probably were hard and very personal, very personal. And I don't know, I don't know if some of your best friends know the things that you've revealed to me here today. And I'm honored, and I'm going to keep everything you told me just between us. Thanks, Billy.

Thank you.