Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Bob Balaban

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

Gilbert and Frank chat with Oscar- and Emmy-nominated producer, director and actor Bob Balaban about his family's history in the movie theater business, his affection for horror films, his transition from acting to directing and his admiration for colleagues Wes Anderson, Christopher Guest and Steven Spielberg. Also, Orson Welles inspires fear, Robert Altman tackles a whodunit, Bill Murray perfects his short game and Bob "apprentices" for Sidney Lumet. PLUS: "Brewster McCloud'! The Marx Brothers on stage! The brilliance of Eugene Levy! Uncle Miltie meets an extraterrestrial! And Bob remembers the late, great Fred Willard! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. As a podcast listener, you've heard from us before. Today, let's hear what members have told us. One member said, I would recommend my therapist 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life.

Another member said, the day after my first session, my friends and family said I sounded like myself again for the first time in weeks. You deserve to invest in your well-being. Visit BetterHelp.com to see what it can do for you. That's BetterHelp.com. uh hi this is gilbert godfrey and this is g Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Our guest this week is an Oscar-nominated producer, Emmy-nominated director, a successful children's book author, and one of the busiest and most admired actors of his generation. You know him from hit TV shows like The West Wing, Entourage, Friends, The Good Wife, Girls, Seinfeld, as network executive Russell Darrymple. And he spent a considerable amount of time in the director's chair, helming episodes of amazing stories, tales from the dark side, the Twilight Zone, Eerie Indiana, Oz, and Nurse Jackie, as well as an Emmy-nominated biopic of artist Georgia O'Keeffe

and 1989's cult horror feature, Parents. He's been a fixture on the big screen for an impressive five decades in popular films like Midnight Cowboy, Catch-22, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Altered States, Prince of the City, Waiting for Guffman, Deconstructing Harry, Ghost World, Capote, A Mighty Wind, The Grand Budapest Hotel and Gosford Park, which he also conceived and produced. He's worked with everyone from Paul Newman to Bill Murray to Francois Truffaut to Milton Berle. And for everyone from Mike Nichols to Sidney Lumet to Steven Spielberg and Wes Anderson. Please welcome to the show a true renaissance man and an actor's actor and a man who says he's one of the happiest people who's ever worked in showbiz and a seething cauldron of frenzy. I don't claim to have said that.

The talented Bob Balaban. That's a funny and a good introduction, but a lot of it isn't really true, but good. Thank you. Which isn't true, Bob. The part about how wonderful I am, but thank you. Welcome. Now, Bob, what are you so happy about? I don't know whoever said that.

I have a great ability to forget when I'm unhappy. Does that make me happy? Well, no, it means you get unhappy, but then you forget. Yes, I forget I was unhappy. That quote is from an actual interview. You're going senile. And speaking of being too old, speaking of being too old to cockers, Bob and I, do you remember where we met? We met at the wonderful audiologist's office, Therese D'Arelaine.

I think that's where we met. Yeah, we met at a doctor's office. And we got to stand there and trade ailments with each other. She has very good candy. Oh, Gil, you must love that. Oh, yes. I always bring my bags with me. Yeah, I'm sure Bob didn't fill his pockets, though.

Practically. Now, here's something Frank and I think we know the answer to, but by law, we have to ask this. So, was anyone else in your family in show business? Maybe.

Is that for me or for Frank? Yes, for you. Oh, yeah. No one in show business. Maybe. Is that for me or for Frank? Yes, for you. No one in my family. Yes, my dad and his seven brothers, well, there were seven brothers in all, were very much in show business, but on the other side of the camera, not on the front of the camera.

And I actually have a couple of cousins. One was a terrific AD and the other one was one of the producers of Larry David show. And the other one does a lot of stuff in theater. And other than that, all 70 million offspring don't do anything in show business except me and those people. And and your your uncle was Barney Balaban. Yes. Oh, yes. My dad was the youngest of seven brothers.

His parents fled up a grum in Bessarabia in about 1882 or some very long time ago. They came to a slum in Chicago called Maxwell Street where they started a horrible failing delicatessen. My grandmother woke up one day and said, we mustn't be in this business. It was 1907. She went to see one of the first Nickelodeons, after which she came home and she said, boys, we're going into the movie business. And eight or 10 years later, they had about 85 theaters in Chicago and downtown and all around. Wow.

And Barney was the oldest brother. My dad was the youngest. And Barney was very oldest brother. My dad was the youngest. And Barney was very good friends with Adolph Zucker because in those days there were monopolies. And Paramount distributed all of their movies in Chicago to the thing called Balabanic Cats. Cats was my uncle before I was born, and then he became my grandfather later,

but we don't have to talk about that. Didn't they pioneer the use of air conditioning in movie theaters too? Yes, they did. They had the first air-cooled system, but this was really in the early days because Uncle Barney worked at an ice company, and he would get large blocks of ice, and they would blow with a fan onto the audience,

and occasionally if the ice started melting too much, they would be flinging ice water on the audience. And occasionally, if the ice started melting too much, they would be flinging ice water on the patrons. But when you think about it, Nickelodeons in those days, they had no air conditioning. So it was something that until they had some form of cooling it off, they could only do this in the colder months. And Barney worked with Jerry Lewis, didn't he and barney worked with jerry lewis didn't he barney worked with a lot of great people because martin and lewis were under contract to paramount

barney replaced adolf zucker as president of paramount but he and adolf were friends you probably know who everybody seems to know who yes people who listen to this show do and he seemed to live to be about 130 uh and um and he came to Barney during the Depression in the beginning and said, this is too much, we would take it over. And Barney, who was a really lovely man, and his daughter Judy is one of my best friends, Barney said to him that he would take over, but he didn't want to be the whole deal,

so Adolph had to be the chairman of the board, and he remained chairman of the board until he died. And then Barney was both president and chairman of the board of Paramount and got to know a lot of very cool people and put them under contract. Many great directors, a lot of interesting people. And the thing about Barney was he was very unshow businessy. He did a lot of civic stuff. He didn't like hanging around with famous people necessarily just because they were famous.

And he was kind of famous for being modest, but smart and strong, which is kind of a lovely thing to be. And I heard Jerry Lewis said in an interview that with Barney Balaban, he never had a contract. They always had a handshake agreement. And Lewis just trusted him. Well, Barney had real relationships with most of the people that worked for him or with him. And he had a kind of a philosophy that if somebody was really good and they knew what they were doing, you should stay away. He was very strong. He took care of money very, very nicely.

And he passed a rule sometime around 1938, I'm not sure. The Balaban rule at Paramount was, since movies that cost less than a million dollars don't make any less than movies that cost more than a million dollars, no movie shall cost more than a million dollars. And he did that for a lot of years and made a lot of good movies and was hated by a few directors because they wanted to get more money. But he was just being practical. He was very practical. And Alfred Hitchcock was one of, in his stable of many people as well. Wow. How many of those theaters, I know the Chicago's theater is still standing. Not many of them. No, a lot of the theaters are there, but they became different things. Right, right.

The State Lake Theater. It was interesting. My dad's office, because he was a baby, was in the State Lake Theater. And directly across the street was the Chicago Theater. And my dad could stand in his window and look out the window at his six other brothers in Chicago, who were also on the fourth floor or whatever of that building. And my dad was kind of a pioneer in cable television because being the youngster in the family, everybody in the family was aware of what was eating away

at the exhibition business, and it was television. And he got into it very early and was very smart about a lot of things, and we were very close. Your hangout was the Esquire Theater when you were a kid? I was an usher at the Esquire Theater when I was 15. I heard you say you used to bring friends and dates to the theater to impress them because your name would be somewhere on the wall. Well, I was a Midwestern Jew, and Jews everywhere, but especially in the Midwest,

are trained not to stand out. Like, don't brag about anything. Don't say anything too much about what you're doing. You could only get in trouble. So I would take my dates to one of the theaters where Balaban and Katz would be blasted all over the front of the theater. And she would, like, casually look up and say,

oh, that's your name, isn't it? And then I had to tell my story because she asked. So that was okay. I see. Very small. And when I was an usher at the Escora Theater, I stood too long and got terrible blisters on my feet and had to stop being an usher at some point. But right as I was stopping being an usher, my mother had come to see me be an usher. She was very, I guess, excited about it all. Remained an usher. It would have been like the scourge of the family. But she came to see me and she told my

father that my usher uniform was about 100 sizes too big for me because, you know, I'm not a very large person. But until I was about maybe 25 years old, I weighed about 98 pounds. And so my father had to have a special suit maker make my usher's uniform, and it fit absolutely beautiful. And then I got my blisters on my feet, and I couldn't be an usher anymore, and I was so ashamed because I had made everybody make me this lovely suit. And I had to pretend I wasn't related to my father. So my cousin, Stanley Lesritritz was the manager of the theater because, you know, it was kind of family-oriented business a little bit.

So I had to call him Mr. Lesritz, and he called me Mr. Robert. And so I guess people thought my name was Robert something, and we didn't really pull it off too well because I'm sure they all knew when my mother came to pick me up the next day gill and i were talking about this and these are the days these movie show places that your family built these are the days when between the films performers would take the stage yes you could see bob hope or eddie kander or jack benny or the marx's yeah the marx brothers were a big deal there. Sophie Tucker was, I guess, a family friend at the time.

Vincent Minelli was head of directing all the stage shows at the Ballad Band and Cats Theater. My dad's theater was an Art Deco theater because it was built after the picture palace I did, but it's a gorgeous theater and very, very well designed. And what was the question, Frank? Oh, Gilbert and I just got a kick out of those days. Of course, on this show, we lament the loss of movie theater all the time. I mean, we've lost the Ziegfeld here in New York. We've lost so many great show places. But we're nostalgic.

Nostalgic, we didn't even live through it, Gilbert. But the days you could see the Marx brothers coming up and on stage live and working out bits from their next movie. Yes, and I don't know, I guess people do sort of realize this, but the Marx Brothers did almost all of their movies as stage plays first to work out the kinks and among other things to find out

where the laughs were because in a movie obviously you can't stop for laughs. So it's not a bad idea to have in your head where the laugh is going to be and then design something. You have to pick up a piece of paper at that moment or something happens. And I think George Kaufman was hanging out with him because he wrote a lot of these things. And Maxine Marks, who is I think Harpo's daughter, I'm not sure.

Oh, Chico's. Chico's daughter. Chico's daughter. She used to be a casting director at an ad agency that I did voiceovers for occasionally. And she said she was with the brothers. She was offstage. She was like 10 years old.

And George S. Kaufman is watching. And he goes, all of a sudden, he whispers to her offstage, oh, my God, oh, my God. And she said, what happened? He said, they said one of my lines. Wow. Gilbert got to know Maxine a little bit. Oh, yeah. How do you know everything?

You know everything about Gilbert. I do. I'm his keeper. And, you know, Frank told me something that a similarity we both had as kids, you and me, we both had as kids, you and me, that when I was a kid, I used to make out of paper mache puppets. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I used to make puppets. And I put on at least two productions from my parents

with like one of those fold-out dinner tables with a blanket over it. And I did one of Dracula and one of Jekyll and Hyde. I did My Fair Lady. Did you really? I really did. Learner and low. Yeah. My parents, I was a big New Yorker file,

but I had never been there. And my parents came back, and they were so excited about My Fair Lady, and I said, I was probably nine. I said, well, tell me about it. And they told me about it. And I created My Fair Lady, the puppet show. But Julie Andrews refused to be in it.

So you were singing the whole thing? I kind of didn't care. I had, if only I remained as impervious to things as I was when I was that age. I just did whatever I could do, and I charged a nickel, and I made all my friends and all of my relatives had to come and see these things. What's the story about how you rigged a bunch of strings? You had seen The Invisible Man and been inspired by that?

Well, if we do this, this is great. I mean, it's like I'm reliving every minute of my life. But if we continue, this may be a 10- interview. So we move around. I was infatuated with old horror movies. Oh, me too. You're in the right place, Bob. My nine to 11 year old period, I watched The Invisible Man and The Mummy, which was for me the most terrifying one. I could smell the leaves and I'd get terrified and you can't really smell them on the television set. But I did this amazing thing, which really didn't work at all, but I thought it was fantastic. I would tie various things in my room that were movable to monofilament or, you know, white thread or whatever. And I'd hide in my bathroom with the

strings going under the door. And I would ask a friend to come into the room. And then I would start slowly pulling the strings. You know, like a pillow would move a little bit. Or maybe the lamp would shake. I don't think I really terrified anybody. But I spent a huge amount of time rigging my invisible band strings. So you're a little bit of what they call a monster kid. You familiar with that term?

I could imagine. Yeah, kids like us. well, Gilbert and I are. Oh, I thought you meant kids who behaved monstrously. No, no. Kids who grew up on that stuff. I would read, I would study famous monsters of film land. I used to look up Lon Chaney in my Encyclopedia Britannica, and it had a whole page of him showing him putting on his makeup

and how he put horrible things on his eyes to make him look blind and all the stuff that he did. It was a great page, and I don't remember the page number now. I'm sorry. Well, you're talking to a man who sent a fan letter to Lon Chaney Jr. Okay. Mr. Gottfried. And I have, like, a postcard back in a frame

with a picture of the Wolfman and it says he signed the bottom, Lon Chaney. Okay. I hope you kept it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My grandfather was head of production at MGM.

He was the man who had originally been married to my father's sister and then years passed and he married my mother's mother and became my grandfather. But he was the Katz of Balabanic Katz. His name was Sam Katz. And at Paramount, he did a lot of things. He helped start the Arthur Freed musical unit and was very musical. He's supposedly, according to that wonderful woman, Janine Basinger. Oh, yes.

He was responsible for Shirley Temple not getting the part and for Judy Garland getting the part and sang Somewhere of the Rainbow because of my uncle. But he also got an itch for a few movies that he was very personally involved with and they were both terrible movies, but I loved

them. One was called, it's sort of a cult thing, The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. Terwilliger. Do you know that movie? Well, didn't they release it under The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T? Yes. And I had an original five... Hans Conrad?

Yes, very good. Very, very good. And I can't remember who else. Hans Conrad was the evil piano teacher. The whole movie is a dream about a little kid who hates playing the piano. And at one point, they converted two entire stages at MGM to a piano that sat 500 children who all played the piano at the same time. Wow. It's a triumph of shoddiness, but it really is pretty interesting.

I think Dr. Seuss wrote that screenplay. Really? If I'm not mistaken. God, I could have met Dr. Seuss when I was little. Yeah. Well, do talk about how you went to your first trip to a movie set, too, to see Sid Charisse and Dan Daly. Yes, it was very exciting.

In Meet Me in Las Vegas, in which when Dan Daly touches Sid Charisse's shoulder, or God, whatever else he's touching, they don't mention that specifically, she becomes lucky and wins everything at the roulette table. It was a really not very good movie. I don't even think she sang and danced in the movie as far as I remember it. And it showed up on TV a couple of years ago. I think it shows every 50 or 60 years. They show it once in a while. It's just a terrible movie.

But I was 10 years old. I broke my arm at camp. They didn't know what to do with me, so they packed me off to California to be with my grandparents who were in the movie business. And he took me to the movie studio, and I had a little chair with my name on it. Oh, that's sweet.

And I go there sitting in a chair. And I'm kind of a fanatic for movie sets. I'll go anywhere and wait. Even now, if I can get near a movie set, all I want to do is sit and watch it and see how it works. And I love watching the people coming in and out and all that stuff. So I'm sitting there and it's a set of a casino in Las Vegas. It's gigantic. It's a whole soundstage of this one giant room. There are maybe 200 extras and they're all very quiet and everybody's standing around. And I look out the glass windows to the fake outside and there are real cars coming in and moving and parking. It

was just fantastic. And they screamed action. And all of a sudden 200 extras start yelling, craps, craps and yelling and screaming and saying they won. And then they say cut and everything becomes quiet and nobody moves. And unfortunately, I was hooked. It was like after that. That was it. Yeah, I came home and made the puppet show of Meet Me in Las Vegas immediately. We'll move past the childhood portion of our program in a minute. But I do want to bring Barney back into the equation

because you told a fun story of when you made Midnight Cowboy. Okay. Low these 50s, 51 years ago. So I got a couple of jobs when I was in college in New York. I was Linus in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown off Broadway. And so, you know, you get on casting director's list and I, and I got into, I had an audition for a movie for something called The Midnight Cowboy, which I didn't really know what it was, but I went for my audition at Marion Dougherty. She's wonderful.

There's a great documentary about her that I recommend everybody see. And I loved her. And I was kind of on her list of people that appeared to me maybe 16 or 17, even though they were maybe 20 or 21 or whatever. And I had my audition with John Voight, which was great because I had studied at Second City in Chicago. And the one thing that I could do fairly dependably, nothing else could I do dependably until I was at least 50.

I mean, I really couldn't. And even now it's not all that dependable, but what I really could do was, don't give me a script, just tell me to do something, and I just am very happy to do that. So for the audition for Midnight Cowboy, we did the scene where John Voight tries to steal my watch and I've just gone down on him and I'm throwing up in the basin and he's going to show the watch and maybe my mother will find out and then she'll figure out I was

gay and all that stuff. And we did it for like 25 minutes. John was a really good improviser. I had a great time. And I walk out and then I got a call right away from the office and said, well, you got the part. So I called home and I said, I think I got a call right away from the office and said, well, you got the part. So I called home and I said, I think I got a part in something, Mom. And she said, oh, what is it? I said, I'm not really sure. I think it's a television series. How in the world could there possibly be a television series

where people go down on people in 1976 i mean when the movie came out i was the x-rated literally there was a lot of stuff going on but the the implied blow job uh the only danger of which was my knees got horribly skinned from kneeling for such a long time from kneeling for such a long time. And there it was. I remember, I remember, I snuck into the Cameo Theater on Easton Parkway in Brooklyn, saw Midnight Cowboy,

and for years after that, whenever I'd see you in a movie or TV show, I'd go, that's the guy who blew John Voight. Everybody needs to be known for something. But I was referring, Bob, to when your uncle said, when you told your uncle you were in a movie. So I told my uncle that I'm in this movie, and that happened to be a Paramount movie. And I noticed that 10 film cans were sitting on his desk, and then we went out for lunch.

And I thought, oh, I'll be curious as to what he thinks about me in the movie or the movie, which I'm sure he had seen. And he never mentioned it. I mean, he lived for another 15 years after that. And he could have said something. Interesting. But I think knowing my grandfather,

he didn't have anything great to say. I don't think it bothered anybody in my family particularly. But I think he just didn't know what to say. So being from the Midwest as well, he just didn't say anything. And since we're on the subject of Midnight Cowboy, Gilbert, I promised Bob that you would

favor him with a little bit of your john mcgyver you've got a strong back joe buck you're gonna need it i'm gonna work you ragged i'm gonna use all the time i prayer doesn't have to be joyless get down on your knees I pray everywhere I pray in the saloon I pray in a bar I pray everywhere well that's that's another career you have there Bob you've been around the block but have you ever heard a John MacGyver impression? I don't think I ever knew anybody who even knew John MacGyver. I am a big

John MacGyver fan. This show, buddy. Yeah, well, somebody's got to remember. The fact that you did Midnight Cowboy and Catch-22 while you were still in school is incredible. And worked with John Voight in the first two things that I did. Yeah, twice.

Oddly enough. Yeah. And it was interesting. And in fact, in Catch-22, originally Mike had suggested I be Milo Minderbinder or Minderbinder. I never figured out which one that was. And then it just worked out that I was Captain Orr and John Voight was Milo. But our paths crossed very intensely, very briefly.

And he's a wonderful actor, but I've never seen him since then. You've never seen him again? I've never seen him again. 50 years. What about Orson Welles on the set of Catch-22? Well, we didn't become good friends, but he was there, Catch-22,

because Peter McDonavich was working with him, using that footage from the movie called whatever it's called. You probably remember it. Do you remember it, Gilbert? Peter McDonavich made a movie out of shreds of things that Orson Welles had done. I remember hearing about it, but I forget the title. Well, so Orson Welles came, terrorized everybody. And Mike, obviously, Mike was in great, really respected of him. He was also kind of terrified of him, I think.

And he kind of ran ragged over the set, quietly. And then, so from then on, I could actually say, I worked with Orson Welles, but then he died. Did you ever work with him again? Did you ever run into him again? No. Oh, he would not have had any idea that I was there. No, huh?

Oh, my God, no. We had Austin on the show. We know your friends. Oh, so you know the story about Austin and Orson? Oh, yeah. He told, well, which one specifically? Well, the only thing I remember is my character and a bunch of other people in Alan Arkin are sitting in this little mini auditorium in a tent and Orson Wells is, is he dreidel? I can't, oh no.

And this very sexy, beautiful woman that had fake gigantic breasts and Austin were in a scene together and Austin was very wonderful and then they did our coverage first and then we went out then they did our coverage first, and then we went out, and they did Austen and Orson, and Suzanne Benton was her name, was playing Dreidel's nurse or something like that. And Austen would come out every 10 minutes practically crying. It's like, oh, my God, I can't take it, I can't take it.

Well, what had happened was Orson had gotten a sense that Austen might be stealing the scene. And there was a lot of focus pulling going on. It was very, very well photographed. It was very intricate and very complicated. And in the design of the shot, Orson would go in and out of focus as Austin in the foreground would get into focus. And then Orson wouldn't. And Orson, with his knack of kind of knowing what was going on behind the camera, figured out every time that Austin was in focus, he wasn't in focus, and he blew the shot.

It happened over and over and over again. It was one of those one-shot wonder things. And he really, really did that. Austin was weeping at the end of it. And yet Austin's still very good in the movie. And Orson's fine. Yes. It's a good film.

He's got some great stuff. We've had five people from that film. Yeah. And Buck. Did you ever have Buck? We had Buck. Yes. Buck, Austin, Peter Bonners, and who else?

Who am I missing? I can't remember off the top of my head. Except for the fact that almost that whole group is dead right now. We could come back and reproduce small sections of the movie on radio. Isn't George Clooney supposed to be doing a Catch-22? He did it. Oh, he did it already? He did it about two years ago.

I didn't see it. I heard it was good. You directed an episode of Amazing Stories that I still remember. With Milton Berle. Yes, yes. Oh, my God. Where these aliens come down and they're... Aliens have fallen in love with American television.

They love I Love Lucy. There are some sections of it where the aliens act out scenes from I Love Lucy on whatever planet they were on. We showed those scenes. And they came to Earth, and they had to fall in love with a very famous American television person. Only nobody was willing to do it except Milton Berle, who happened to have played at my relative's theaters a lot.

Oh, there you go. In Chicago, he did a lot of that. And there's a little story about that, which is not that. It's a little scatological. But anyway, so Milton's there. We have a little reunion. He obviously didn't remember me, but remembered my family, someone. And it was very interesting. And he was,

it was very interesting. First of all, it was amazing. You know, you, you run into somebody like that. It's, it's, you, you can't explain how that stays with you, you know, for your whole life. So he always asked two questions. Okay, Bob, is this scene supposed to be funny or is it a serious scene? Because I have to know whether I'm going to be Milton or Miltie. Cause if it's serious, I'm Milton. And if it's a funny scene, I'm Miltie. And I said, oh my God, the man has two personalities. And also, I wouldn't say he couldn't remember his lines. He wasn't being paid enough to learn any lines or anything like that. So he had everybody write his lines on little pieces of paper and the kids who were in the scenes with him would wear them. So one of the kids would have lines on his forehead

so it could look like Milton was looking into his eyes. The other one would have his lines on his chest. And that was my experience of that. But I met some great people, and I was there basically because I knew Stephen from doing Close Encounters. And he was kind enough to give me a shot at directing something. And it was probably the first thing I ever directed where you had to join a union. It's truly surreal to watch that episode because you've got what I assume are little people in those alien costumes.

And I had alien masks made by some huge famous person who did all the masks for Star Wars. And I kept them in my basement for years and years. And one day I went, I could sell these things on eBay for millions of dollars. And I went and they all had melted into one goop of plastic. Oh! But they're little people playing extraterrestrials dressed as Fred Mertz and Gracie Allen.

And they were great and very good-natured. It's very hot inside those masks. Now I have to ask you the obligatory Milton Berle question. Yes, here's the answer. So Milton is playing at my parents', my relatives', including my father's theater at the Chicago Theater. And he's with the guys, and he always came to collect the box office receipts, because in those days,

he was always scared he wanted to get his percentage because he had a piece in the box office. And he came, and they were all standing around in the office counting the pennies and the nickels and everything, and he said, okay, I know what you're all thinking, so I'll show you. And he put it on the table, and he said, see, and then he put it back.

Which I guess he did everywhere he went uh you must know alan's white belt yes i love alan yeah okay alan's did alan have that story too no but alan alan saw it oh did he live yeah yeah he was staring at it uh eye to eye uh he was sitting down and Milton Berle was standing there. Was he just waving it at him or what were they doing naked together? He said, do you want to see it? Oh, okay. And Alan Zweifel described it as an anaconda. Well, and it's very scary to have something like that to be sitting.

Yeah. I mean, we just have to say that in the days of Me Too, where would this have fit in? It's like he's in the days of Show Me. He didn't do anything with it, but he showed a lot of people. I think it was when he hosted SNL, wasn't it, Gil, in the dressing room? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Well, I guess you get to a certain point in your career and there are just a few things that still remain. Gilbert and I also watched, Bob, we watched one of your Twilight Zone episodes. The Pharaoh's Curse, which was a lot of fun. And the Tales from the Dark Side episode,

the pilot that you did with the great Barnard Hughes. Oh, wow, yes. Actually, part of that was probably how I got to do my Amazing Stories episode, because a producer named David Vogel had produced Tales from the Dark Side. And when he when Stephen needed a line producer for Amazing Stories, I recommended David, who was a wonderful producer and a very good line producer. But I guess he was also my champion catb Bob an episode, and then I felt terrible about my episode because it was kind of dumb, but I did my best.

What about the Twilight Zone episode? There were two of them. The Pharaoh's Curse, which was sort of a Harry Blackstone story. I kind of vaguely remember. They were kind of fun to do, but of course, these were not original Twilight Zones. Right, right. This was the

Forrest Whitaker edition. Because I could have done the Twilight Zone puppet show, but I wasn't old enough to actually do the episode. We assume you're a fan of the original series. Of course I am.

They're great. And this one was kind of slapdash, but I like doing things that are quick, that nobody notices, and you just get in and you just do your best

and you can't worry about anything. And sometimes you're freer and looser and i enjoyed those two episodes not that i remember them particularly but the food was very good we were in vancouver um and it was really fun doing the show and the scripts were pretty interesting it was very uneven but you know that's okay we will return to gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this baseball is finally back get in on major league action and swing for the fences with bet mgm the king of sportsbooks log in or sign up to play along as bet mgm brings the real-time action embrace a season's worth of swings with bet mg, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs.

19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. When summer brings the heat, McDonald's brings the chill.

During summer drink days, enjoy a small iced coffee or a refreshing Coca-Cola for $1 plus tax and step up your summer today. At participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada, prices exclude delivery. You know, you do have a taste for horror and I find it very interesting.

Yes, I do. And the first movie I got to make on my own was a horror sort of a horror film called Parents. Talk about Parents. Yeah. I had been directing Penn and Teller in a Showtime, in the very early days of Showtime, we did like a hybrid little movie, actually,

about an alien that comes from outer space. He's going to destroy the Earth unless he can find four reasons not to destroy the Earth. And nobody ever saw this. It was called The Invisible Thread. And it was kind of good, actually. I love Penn and Teller, and I've been friends with them ever since. But somebody in an office, maybe accounting,

had written a script called Parents, and he called me and said, you don't know me, I'm in the accounting office, I see you here every day, you're coming and directing this thing. Would you read it? And I'm like, well, first of all, I always say yes to anybody because you never know where the next good thing is going to come from. So I'm very superstitious. And I read it and I thought it was interesting. And the one thing I mostly did for the movie was it was set gothically in scary

old castle. And this was happening. It was all very morose and i said well i like this thing and i don't and you don't have to change it all that much and it and i said but the one thing is i'd love to set it in 1955 it should be cheerful and happy and with bright colors and it would be much more wonderful if the parents were cannibals in that situation and there's there are metaphors it turned out i really basically the movie was autobiographical for me because I grew up in the cheeriest, happiest house. And in spite of all of its scary undercurrents, nothing bad really happened. I had lovely parents and lovely sisters.

But for me, I knew there was a dark cloud hanging around somewhere. And it reminded me of the little boy in Parents who happens to look a lot like I looked at the time. You know, when I was 10, he was nine. And when I was nine, that was kind of me then. This kid who knew that something bad was happening but couldn't put his finger on it. And that was why I made the movie.

And that's why I'm crazy. It's a good black comedy. One horror film we talked about a lot on this show, and I want to know your opinion, are The Black Cat. You know this picture with Karloff and Lugosi? I've only heard about it and read about it. I didn't see it.

You must watch it. Okay. You must watch it. I remember seeing some of the horror movies where they did all the characters together, like there was one with Wolfman and Frankenstein. Oh, House of Frankenstein. House of Dracula and Abbott and Costello.

Yeah, and I love that. And I love the Abbott and Costello one where they keep pushing the revolving door. And when they push it one way, the monster comes out. When they push it one way, like Bud Abbott comes out of there. That's one of my favorite things that I can't remember any more than that. Watching Parents again, and I remembered liking it when I first saw it

in the 80s, you know, we've talked about, on this show, Gil, we talk about how nobody really does black comedy, black, really dark black comedy. Well, there's a reason. And why is that? It's very hard to know that it's a comedy. If you have the wrong

expectation and it's been advertised that it's scary, there's no hope. And there's a very small window of people who like, and what is it George, what they said, don't do satire, it closes on Thursday. That's the definition of satire.

It's tricky because I know when we made Parents, the studio loved it. It was for Vestron and they thought it was scary and wonderful. I never thought it was particularly scary. I just thought it was ominous. Well acted, certainly. I thought the actors were great. And then I went on to become really good friends with Mary Beth Hurt

and other people from the movie and Sandy Dennis was fantastic. Wonderful. Yeah, but when they started getting ready for the movie, they put on a screening in Paramus, New Jersey, and they showed me the one sheet for it. And it said, and it was aimed at boys between 12 and 16. This is not who that movie was. Not at all.

And it said, beware, this is the scariest movie you will ever see. And I had to go to the screening with a whole bunch of the studio and the staff and the producer and some friends of mine. It starts going 10 minutes into it. The children in the movie start screaming, where's the beef? Where's the beef? And then they literally started throwing things at the screen. Like, you know, I don't know if it was tomatoes, but at least it was a lot of popcorn. And I think by the 20th minute of the movie, they had all left. We didn't even have to stay for the rest of the movie. And then when it opened, it got some really good reviews, you know, about it. Pauline Kael. Yes, Pauline. Thank you for knowing that. Yeah, Pauline Kael was great

about it. She mostly talked about the acting, which is. Thank you for knowing that. Yeah, Pauline Kael was great about it. She mostly talked about the acting, which is funny in a movie like that. But she figured out that somebody, the only thing I can claim to have been somewhat savvy about in that movie, other than the wonderful shot where Sandy did a screams and the camera pulls back and then goes to the house, which, of course, obviously no CGI. If they had it, we couldn't have afforded it.

So that was all constructed with little pieces of the set that moved on wheels so the camera could be hidden and then you could see the camera and all this kind of stuff. But it was hated by most people. I think it's a film that has a cult following now. I think it might, but part of things that have cult followings by nature

were huge failures when they came out. I read the John Waters movie Serial Mom borrows thematically from parents. Have you heard this before? No, but I think that's great. My roommate in college had been John Waters' roommate, and he was so scared of John Waters that he had to leave. It was like John Waters is the sweetest man. But John Waters just scared him for some reason. I don't know why.

Now, your family made these theaters. Yeah. And it's like years ago, I mean, even as much as seeing the movie was seeing the theaters when you'd go. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, we have to remember there was nothing else you know radio

there was radio you know but this is where you could see things and it could be and there was no competition so they could really spend the kind of money you can only imagine these things were handmade the architects for the balaban and cats theater were called rap and rap they they specialized in egyptian and archaeological kind of figures. So there were gargoyles and mummies. It was just fantastic and really very, very beautiful. The family mausoleum into which my mother said, when I die, if you ever put me there, I'll kill you,

was made by Rap and Rap. And when I was a kid, as my uncles, one by one would die because Barney was 24 years older than my dad. So the ones who lived only to be 60 were dying when my dad was like 28 or 38 years old. So I used to see the mausoleum a lot. And one day he went with me because he wanted to put flowers on somebody's, whatever you call people in a mausoleum.

It's not a grave. It's whatever it it is and they had an eternal flame in there which was like it was like a dracula movie in there and i bumped into the eternal flame and it fell over and went out which i never forgot that for many many years wow but of course they just put it up again and lit it and added some oil and it was fine and the family family and parents, by the way, is named Lemley. Is that an in-joke? No, it was in the script. I don't know how that happened. In fact, I forgot it until this moment.

Okay. Gil, I'm not really old enough to have remembered some of those show places. I mean, obviously Radio City showed movies. Remember, no, but Radio City was deco. Yeah. That was later. I mean, Georgia O'Keeffe was around in the 20s, and she's the one who originally painted the mural in the bathroom

and then had a breakdown and couldn't finish painting her mural that she was supposed to paint in a bathroom of a movie theater. But that was later. The height of these things, they really started getting crazy in about 1915 or 16. I would have given anything to see them. Yeah. I remember a lot of these incredible theaters when Times Square truly was Times Square.

Yes. Were like showing porn and really low budget horror films and stuff. Well, when we did The Midnight Cowboy, which was filmed in three different locations, I had three little baby scenes spread over three and a half or four months. It began with the end of the movie with me throwing up in the movie theater,

which was done somewhere in a movie theater, throwing up, I don't remember where. Then it had me going down on John Voight in the village in the, in this, I forget the name of the theater, but it's a famous San Francisco theater that they also had in the East Village. And that was there. And then in September, we did in front of the movie theater where John, where I see John Voight and pick him up in front of the movie theater. And that really was on Times Square. So I think it was a night scene. I can't quite remember,

was on Times Square. So I think it was a night scene. I can't quite remember. But I know I had to walk to one of those horrible hotels that used to exist right on 42nd Street. Yeah. You had to hold your hands to your pocket so that nobody would reach in and grab your wallet or your watch or anything. It was absolutely terrifying. And then they put us in one of the hotels, you know, the cast, it was, you know, there were only like three cast members in the thing and a bunch of extras and we all had to go in one of those hotels up there in the room and I was scared to sit on the couch I thought I'd get bugs or something and it wasn't such a far away thought

that that would happen and it really has changed since then but it still is cheap and tawdry. But at least it's not dangerous. But it was really, really dangerous. And the reason they played horrible movies is only horrible people went to see movies in that horrible location. Right. I remember I used to go to the improv every night and how I didn't get killed.

Yeah. It was a scary place. Culture shock for a kid from Chicago get killed. Yeah. It was a scary place. Culture shock for a kid from Chicago. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about Sidney Lumet, one of Gilbert's favorite topics.

Oh, yes. Why is he your favorite? Why do you, well, aside from the fact that he's brilliant, did you know him, Gilbert? No, never met him. I just know I loved all of his films. Well, I used to say the star of a Sidney Lumet film was New York. Yes.

And I remember I liked The Pawnbroker and Dog Day Afternoon and Prince of the City. I'm a big fan of. Yeah. And also a lesser picture by Barry Furman. Yeah. Well, I met Sidney at an audition for Prince of the City. And it's interesting because I never thought I was right for the part. And I never thought I was very good in the movie, which is fine.

You know, doesn't matter what actors think. You just have to do what you do and whatever happens, happens. But I remembered at the audition, he's a lovely man and he takes a lot of time with actors. And I probably was late for something and I had to wait for about an hour and a half to have my little audition. And I'm rather easygoing. I mean, I'm probably not really, but I act like I'm easygoing and I, you know, and it takes an awful lot for me to register annoyance, even forget anger, you know, that kind of thing. You're one of the happiest men in show business. It was right in the intro.

I would say quietest might be the adjective. I wouldn't necessarily say happiest. But so I'm boiling mad. And I'm and I barely looked at the script before I said this character is another asshole do I have to play another asshole you know so I got in there and we didn't talk much and we just did the scene and I was ragingly I was quiet but oh my god was I mad and then I left and I got a call oh you got the part you were great what did you do it's like I'll never be this mad again I don't know how I'll be able to do this thing. But everybody thought I was perfectly fine. And I didn't, it doesn't matter. And for my birthday, one year, my wife made me a short, she's a wonderful writer, Lynn Grossman is her name, and she wrote a short film that's wonderful. And she said, you have to, you can't just keep being doctors

and psychiatrists and lawyers all the time. You have to be in control of your life a little bit more. So here's my present to you. I'm writing you a short film. And it was wonderful. She's a wonderful writer, and she continues to be, and she does all sorts of great things. We want to see that film, by the way.

Well, it's really very good, actually. Richard Dreyfuss is in it.ard dreyfus is in it richard dreyfus is in it wally sean yeah we'd like to see it and a bunch of other people it's you know it's a very simple movie but but it got me started basically but and so i so i i'd make this short film it was devastatingly difficult and in order to do the movie to do the short film i had to turn down a lead in a broadway play that jules pfeiffer had written which is a very good play and he wrote devastatingly difficult. And in order to do the movie, to do the short film, I had to turn down a lead in a Broadway play that Jules Feiffer had written, which is a very good play. And he wrote the part for me based on something he saw me in at one point. And he called and he said, Bob,

I've thought about you the whole time I was running the play. So I've written you a play. It's the starring role. It starts, you know, in a month. And I said, I can't do it. He said, what do you mean you can't do it? I wrote the play for you. And I said, well, I'm trying to get a, I'm trying to become a director. So I really can't throw this aside. And I have actually asked Sidney Lumet if I could apprentice myself to him. And because I had just done a movie with him, he was willing to let me, when I say apprentice, it implies that I might've helped him or carried some books or pencils around. Literally, it simply meant I was have helped him or carried some books or pencils around. Literally, it simply meant I was allowed all the time

to watch what was happening from early pre-production until editing. I got to watch the whole process. And Sidney, because he's such a wonderful, generous man and loves teaching people, you know, it's a very Talmudic sort of thing, I think, and he was raised very religiously, told me about everything that was happening in the movie. It was the movie of Death Trap, which wasn't his most successful movie, but it's a fun movie. And for me to be watching was a brilliant movie to be observing because it wasn't like Prince of the City where it was 185 pages shot in like seven weeks,

where every day they had three moves and they had to pack everything up. There would be no time for me to do what I did, which is I slavishly wrote down in the script on the empty side of the page, I wrote down all the camera moves, the lenses that were being used, what the shot looked like, did it have a zoom? Well, he didn't zoom, but did it have a dolly or whatever? And it was a tremendous experience. So I said to Jules, who I think stopped talking to me for about 42 years after that, that I had to do this non-existent thing of working with Sidney Lumet where I wasn't getting paid or wasn't doing anything. But it was a highlight of my life, both because I learned so

much, but because I got to see a great man working from all angles and all sides. And the simplest thing I took away from it, and there were many, many other things I took, but the simplest thing I took away from it, and there were many, many other things I took, but the simplest thing I took was Sidney had the concentration, the skill, and the greatness with being with people so that every single person on the set thought he was only doing the movie for them. The actors thought that was it. He lived and breathed acting

and we had a four-week rehearsal period and all sorts of stuff. And when I was acting in the movie, even though I was unhappy with myself, I was aware of the care and the meticulousness with which he dealt with actors. The furthest guy on a lighting rig 28 feet up in the air that Sidney would come in every day and say hello to him and talk to him about a new invention he made for how to drop a

little gobo over something without getting hurt by using an instrument with a pincer attached to it everybody in the movie thought that's that sydney loved them and was making the movie for them and in a way he was he was the happiest person i ever speaking of happy i ever saw on a set i mean in his real life he had many ups and downs and whatever it was. He was always a wonderful person. But he was in heaven the way Robert Altman was in heaven when he was on a set. But leading up to the making of the movie and after the movie was over, Sidney was just blissful as long as he could just be near film.

It was just amazing to watch. That's great to hear. What a body of work. And you've been on both sides of the camera, of course. Yeah. Yeah. How, what's the first sign that you're working with a bad director? I probably wouldn't have recognized it. Oh, I remember, but I can't tell you who it was.

You don't have to say the name. I was working with a director. I'd been in a bunch of movies, so I kind of knew when, easier than that, I knew when somebody was great. And it didn't mean the movie was going to be great. But, you know, I could get a sense when somebody knew what was happening and was putting it together well. But for a lot of years, before I started directing

myself, I didn't pay that much attention to the making of the movie part. When I was in a movie, I was so fixated on myself. I didn't really pay attention until I started directing. And then I watched and paid attention. And when I did Close Encounters, I didn't bother Steven Spielberg, but I tried to figure out every single thing he did and how he did it and why he did it and Steven is the kind of director like Sidney Lumet in a way and like Robert Altman in a way who wants to share you can be a great director and hate people

I guess but some of these great directors that I work with absolutely love the actors they love the people part. They don't necessarily, in fact, they usually hate the executives. You know, that's stuff they don't like. But these are people who want you to see their dailies. Altman, the thing was, it's lunch. Why didn't you go to see the dailies today?

And this was, you know, before I was even producing a movie with him. I just used to know him and he'd invite me to every screening and seeing all the dailies and all that stuff. Stephen would take the actors that paid attention that, you know, would be hanging around. He would take us to his house for dinner and show us all great movies that he wanted to point out. There's some brilliant movie that's entirely made in a studio that the entire movie takes place with like eight feet of snow on the ground and you're fooled into thinking it was really snowing outside. It's a very famous movie. I can't remember the name, but he loved showing us this the way Marty Scorsese's dream is to make a movie where he shows you all his favorite movies and explains why this one is so good or why this

one isn't so good. This is a quality that a lot of great directors have. That I've been lucky enough to be around a number of people who wanted to share this. They're inclusive. It doesn't mean I can do it. But it means that at least I have an idea of what good is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's interesting with Altman, too. And I heard you say that.

I saw an interview with you. And you were talking about how he would invite the smallest... The person with the smallest role in the production. You have to go to dailies. He really viewed it as a group experience. In his case, his anxiety level, his perfectionism,

his everything was so keyed up until the day the cameras rolled. Because Robert was a very complicated person and a fair amount of his movies would fall apart or the financing didn't happen. And he, you know, there were, he didn't get along with bosses. You know, he had to be a boss, which is kind of a sign of a great director, you could say. But the anxiety with Gosford Park, I eventually found the financing by mistake. It wouldn't have happened.

I was able to, and a bunch of things. It was always very rocky. So he was really on edge. Literally the first day that the camera started turning and I was probably there after the second or third day started. I wasn't going to be on the movie at all because I was only producing it. It was too expensive to have me stay there.

But then nobody else was willing to play the part of the American producer. You're sort of the ugly American in that. Yes, for many reasons, including you had to stay there for a good long time because Robert filmed those scenes in sequence. And he wanted you there. He didn't want to just do half the room and then shoot you out so you could go home because you were paul newman it was we need bob alaban because he'll stay he has nothing else to do and so he'll like he'll have to be there all the time but um you you met him you met him years and years ago you had i met him years and years ago for brewster mcleod oh how did you do it i must have said that i guess somewhere you said i had an audition for brewster mLeod, and Bud Cort was a friend of mine.

We had actually done a movie together that was the example of the movie that I didn't give you where I knew the director was a lovely man and made great commercials, but just wasn't made out for making movies. Well, we're going to look it up after we hang up. You can do that. I've only been in one movie with Bud.

You stayed in touch with Altman over the years, and then you said, what haven't you done? And he had never done a whodunit or a mystery. Well, I was sitting around thinking of how can I get off my ass and stop waiting for the phone to ring all the time. And I thought this would be a good idea. I was reading it, I got the Christie piece, and I thought, I don't remember Robert ever doing much in London,

and he certainly never did a murder mystery exactly. I mean, he did a little bit of everything, but this hadn't happened. So when I told him my little three page synopsis of what this could be, he immediately responded to it. And then I found Julian Fellows. It was a miracle. I had been given a script by another friend who's a producer who said, I know this writer. He's been around. He's, he's old. He's never gotten anything made and he's never, I don't think sold a screenplay, but he's talented. So I had him write something called the Eustace Diamonds, which is an Anthony Trollope novel. And he did a magnificent job. This person out of nowhere who who who was

an actor who used to do small parts and commercials and got on tv once in a while and so i dragged him in and and uh and now he's all of our surprise he got to he got to be the writer and he understood from the beginning how to write this movie and robert you could tell i mean it was magical yeah you you are you are uh you are partially responsible for Downton Abbey. Well, yeah, I mean, sure. Indirectly? Well, and Maggie Smith. Yes, that's right.

It's kind of Gosford Park fancier. Yeah, it's funny how it worked out. Gosford Park was actually, the mansion was, which we all wanted this to be, was kind of falling apart. But please don't tell the owner of the mansion this. which we all wanted this to be, was kind of falling apart. But please don't tell the owner of the mansion this. But Downton Abbey had the best of the latest, newest scenery,

curtains, good couches. This thing was filled with decrepitude as the really fabulous rich people with houses that were built at that time. It's a wonderful movie with a lot of old Hollywood references in it. If you want to hear Ray Milland and Claudette Colbert and Alan Mowbray. Well, you know, that was all improvised. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, when I say that was all. The parts when I was on the telephone, they didn't work exactly. Everything else in the movie was beautiful. But frankly, Julian, in that movie, it was hard for him to capture what would American voices.

He can do anything in the world now, but I think at that point he really was more comfortable doing things with British people. So Robert said, well, just don't say any of that. I said, can I do that? I mean, that's kind of rude to, you know, nobody minded, and they were only phone calls. It didn't really matter. Right, right, right. And so he said, just talk.

Pretend you're making this movie, and what are you saying? And now be casting the movie. And I forever want to shoot myself, but nobody seems to notice this. I was thinking, you know, when you're improvising, you just think about what, say what you know. You know, you can't improvise something you don't know about. And I remember that from the minute I saw Claudette Comber, I knew two things about her.

One was that you could only photograph her from the left. She would not be photographed from the right. I remembered that. And I also remembered, I didn't know if she was British or if she was like phony. I couldn't, so that's how come my little rant about Claudette Comber, is she British or just affected? It's great. But it was fun. And that's a fun movie. And the thing about great directors, But it was fun. And that's a fun movie. And the thing about great directors,

they all are great for different reasons. And Robert's greatness was literally his very being on a set that you were on, it provided electricity for the whole day. And not because he kept you on edge, but the opposite, because he so reveled in everything you were doing and he paid so attention to it and he was so careful and yet would let you do anything you wanted.

And if he didn't like it, he would tell you. But you felt totally freed because he was somebody who directly grew up on television. That was his job and grew to hate it. So he didn't necessarily like it that you should say your lines the way they're written. The fact, I mean, you probably have noticed this, but Robert Altman, when he shoots, developed a shooting style strictly because he hated what he had to do on television, which is

a master of three close-ups and two overs, and that's which then you had the scene. So Robert loved, as you know, he always had two cameras. Overlapping. Now, and I'm acting this out with my hands which is really silly because I don't think anybody nobody's watching this on TV, are they? No, no, it's only audio

Well that's good because I didn't wash my hair today my one hair he had one camera slightly behind the other camera and giant pieces of gently circling tracks. One would begin moving from left to right and the other one would be above it and moving from right to left. There was always a point when one of the cameras blocked the other camera

where you didn't have a shot. And then for the rest of it, you had this gently moving eye watching the scene and gently panning. And he did it for almost every movie, unless it was a big wide shot or an establishing shot or something like that. He didn't do what a lot of bad directors do which have these little wandering camera moves on long shots

and then they never move anything after that. But this was very, it's the thing that when people saw the movie that they most responded to and they didn't know it was, didn't know it was the way it was shot. They said, we feel like we're in these scenes with the characters. Why do we feel that way? And it's because of the way he shot the movie. And he did it because when he shot on television,

he always felt that if there was a long shot, a close-up, and a medium shot, that they were all useful for some pieces of the scene, but he always found places where he wished he'd been on the side of somebody. And he said some of the best moments happen in movies with people leaving and then talking over their shoulder. Well, when you do this wandering style in Pan with people, you pick up, it's like having 3,000 shots of people in one scene in a movie without looking busy.

It looks organic. So it's a great thing. That's one of the things I picked up that I loved. And when I did an HBO movie that was just a little independent movie with Ralph Fiennes and Susan Sarandon called Bernard and Doris, it was literally made for $500,000. And she's the richest woman in the world. like to donate, you know, to let Susan wear the Bulgari or whatever it is, the jewelry. And I said, well, you're very generous, but we can't afford the guard to watch the jewelry, even though you're giving it to us for free. So they really were great because also they loved Susan and they wanted to keep supplying her with jewels every time she won an Academy Award. But anyway, what else should we talk about?

I was going to say, like Lumet, when you look at Altman's body of work, I mean, I could watch McCabe and Mrs. Miller. I absolutely love it. But Nashville's incredible for so many reasons. And he worked in different genres. Yep. And The Long Goodbye. Yep.

Yeah. It's amazing. And then in between, he would wander around doing whatever he felt like, making enemies of all the studios. It was very hard for him because when we did Gosford Park, there was literally, he had made a movie called Dr. T and the Women right before we made Gosford Park. And the movie didn't do very well.

I liked it, actually. But it offended people because the guy was an amorous obstetrician, which is really not a gynecologist. I mean, even worse. There was no baby coming out. It was just him and the women. And so he was really persona non grata. It was very hard to get financing. And you could say the tragedy, well, it's kind of like Orson Welles, except Robert Altman made 3,000 movies and Orson Welles made 3.5 movies

that's a good analogy but in exchange for that Robert always had complete authority when we sat down in the beginning to try to raise the money and I went to a bunch of the meetings with Robert the guy who financed Dr. T and the women wanted to give us $16 million for Gosford Park. And we thought we could do it for $9 or $10 million, but we didn't tell him that. And then we had lunch and it was like, okay, let's sign a napkin now or whatever we have to sign. And this nice man said,

oh, by the way, I find it, if you don't mind my saying so, I adore the movie. It's brilliant and it's wonderful. But the fact is, you don't really solve the murder, particularly in that version of the script at that point. And you should make whatever movie you make, because he knew Robert, you know, you don't tell him what to do. But would you even consider having an ending? Robert said, no, and I'm not going to let you give me the money. So we made the movie for $9 million instead of $16 million.

So if you want real, do whatever you want, you pay a price, but then you also gain a lot. I find it interesting. Gilbert likes, Gilbert's still out there acting, and Gilbert likes, he doesn't like actually, the process of auditioning, but you like it. I don't audition enough anymore because they kind of know

he does this, he does that. You don't have to do that. But I always liked auditioning for many different reasons, including I love not knowing what's happening. I'm a kind of and I'm kind of

getting over this not wanting to know what's happening business. Cause you know, like it can be really tiring, but I want just to be me and what's, and the, and the, and the, and the piece. I don't want to have to have things like now I have to know lines. Now I have to walk to a certain place. Let me just be there, which is, you know, like the dream we all have, but you have to be realistic about it. But in auditioning, you get to hold on to your script. At least you do now. You do then. You didn't used to be able to do it.

So I would glance at the script just enough to know, did I have to really be emotional, in which case maybe I'd prepare. But I didn't want to know what it was. So I would be in these auditions and I'd go, this is happening? Oh, my God. I would get so excited because the first time you read something, you can't get that again until you rehearse and rehearse and work and work. And if you're lucky, my character in Waiting for Goffman says this at one point

with Christopher Guest playing Corky, because Corky never prepares for anything. He just like goofs off all the time. And he says to me, well, what's your opinion? I said, well, I think you have to work very, very hard and you have to learn everything and practice everything and then pretend you don't know what's happening. And Chris said, well, it's easier my way. I really don't know what's happening. And I was just saying that was my goal even as an actor.

Discovery. But the height of that discovery was simply to be auditioning all the time. I auditioned for Starting Over for Alan Pakula, one of my most favorite directors. And I don't know what was going on in my personal life, but I was under some anxiety cloud or whatever. And I went in, and it's a silly, wonderful movie. And Austin Pendleton ended up doing my part in the movie.

I mean, the part, if Austin sees this, forgive me, Austin. I mean, but all actors all got a part because somebody else didn't do it, you know, for the most part. And at my audition with Pakula, there's a scene where we're all in group therapy. You remember the movie with Candy Gardner? Yeah, Burt Reynolds. It's great, and Burt Reynolds is fabulous.

And I'm in the men's group group and I have to tell a tragic story and literally weep it says now it's a comedy so you didn't really have to weep but I so didn't understand the script that when I got to the partner and says he weeps I just started to bawl and directors like when people can have emotions I didn't think twice about it

but the one thing I knew was I probably could never do it again like when people can have emotions, you know, it's, it's, it's, I didn't think twice about it, but the one thing I knew was I probably could never do it again because it was a comedy and it had nothing to do with my part. I was just really in a bad mood that day. So it was very easy to do because I didn't have to work on it. I literally could just read it. So that's way too much on that. I hope you've got a lot of this out. Yeah. Gilbert. Well, why do you hate the process of auditioning? Does anything Bob say, can you relate cut a lot of this out, please. Yeah, Gilbert, well, why do you hate the process of auditioning? Does anything Bob say, can you relate to any of that? Oh, no. See, I hated it in the beginning part of my career,

and then I became good at it. Well, as soon as you're good at something, it does become more friendly. Yeah. I found myself more ready to play with stuff and and that's that's that those auditions i enjoyed like uh well like aladdin and beverly hills cop 2 i went in and just played and enjoyed it rather than trying to be good you know know. Yeah, somebody that I worked with recently said something I thought was really smart.

He said he had been auditioning and auditioning, and he had studied well, and he had great teachers, and he went to RADA and all sorts of things. We were doing a series together called Condor, which was only on for a year, and the second year may return at some point. And he said, but he wasn't getting jobs. And some teacher that he wasn't even working with said,

well, let's talk about this a little. And then he said, let's work for a minute. And he said, I know what's wrong. You're fulfilling the part beautifully, but how do you feel about this thing? Are you having fun? And he said, no, I'm just working really hard. And he said, until you're entertaining yourself, other people aren't going to be entertained enough to want to hire you. You have to be doing something that excites you, that you enjoy, that's fun, even if

it's a tragedy. And a lot of people make, for me, the mistake is if you're playing in a tragic part, is if you're playing in a tragic part, it's much easier to do that if you aren't feeling tragic. I can't explain this very well, as you can see, so let's hop away from that stupid topic. I shouldn't be talking too much. Let me ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners, if I can. Let's see, let's see, let's see.

People are listening to this now? No, no, no. These are questions people sent in. Oh, my God. They sent them in on Patreon. We do a thing called Grill the Guest. Okay, I hope they know I lie. Marty Weinberg wants to know,

can Mr. Balaban talk about acting with the late, great Fred Willard, who we just, sadly. Well, acting with Fred was unlike anything I've ever done. Even if I didn't interact with him in Waiting for Guffman, all I did was sit with Christopher Guss and watch him audition with Midnight at the Oasis.

Midnight at the Oasis. It's great. As you know, these movies were unscripted. They would say, Ben, Fred and Catherine come in and they do something. Nobody knew. Even Christopher didn't know what song movies were unscripted. They would say, Ben, Fred, and Catherine come in, and they do something. Nobody knew. Even Christopher didn't know what song they were going to do or that they were going to have music.

I mean, who knew? You didn't know that. And so it was, everything Fred did was so intelligent and so when he needed to plan, he planned. And if he didn't have to plan, he would only plan as much as he needed to plan he planned and if he didn't have to plan he would only plan as much as he needed to he was the most present person i've almost ever worked with which is why i loved him in scripted movies but in non-scripted movies when you'd be three inches away from him and you could literally almost look into his eyes and see what his brain was doing

he was leaping around these are the givens this. This is a circumstance. I could go here. I could go there. And he did the best desperation that I've ever seen in anybody. It was the real thing. And he could control it. It wasn't like, and he was the happiest man in the world as everybody says. So there's no big news because he's so, he's really the happy person. He had a great relationship. He was great with his kids. I think he loved his life. He seemed to be, because I worked with him a million times, and he always was having a good time. But being with him felt a little bit like being,

I said this already, but being run over by a truck, but a very friendly truck. But he had every trick there was that you could do, he could do. And things would pop into his... When you're working with Eugene Levy, it's different because everybody's motors are different, their speeds are different and everything. But this is a Eugene story and you didn't ask me about that. That's okay.

It's kind of like Fred. I love him too. So in these Christopher Guest movies, you have multiple takes. Yes, you're inventing it. And yes, there's no rehearsal and you don't tell Chris what you're doing. You just know you can't go too far left or the camera ends over here 20 feet to the right. You can't go over there and that's all you know. So we were doing a rather ordinary scene and Eugene was addressing a bunch of press for some movie. I forget which movie it was even. Maybe it was for your consideration.

I don't quite remember. And probably there were 10 takes, which is a long time because it wasn't because the actor wasn't doing something. It was the camera didn't move or somebody didn't stand up in the right place. And the amazing thing is, is when you improvise, you can almost always repeat yourself exactly. It's like well you could take an hour memorizing

something but if you said it once or twice you kind of remember it because you have a muscle memory for it. It's really interesting. So Eugene was being brilliant and word for word was doing an eight or nine minute scene exactly as he had done at the time before

and just as relaxed and wonderful. And all of a sudden we get to take seven or whatever it was and something pops into his head and he just says all these new things that he hadn't been saying before that weren't said he didn't you knew he was so relaxed this had nothing to do with thinking or trying to make something happen but something organically happened and it's the best of second city and sometimes it happens in chris's movies they're always good and wonderful they're always entertaining but when you're in them you can see when somebody is having a genius moment which comes from not trying to do anything and it just happened and you don't know where it came from g Gilbert, in the scene... And that was Fred. You never knew where it came from.

Inspired. You know, you just... He's somebody you can't take your eyes off in those movies. And those films are populated by a lot of wonderful performs. Well, everybody has a specialty. Everybody has a specialty, but he's just best in show. He's just electric.

You know, he did that entire performance in a day and a half. He came in, he talked, he talked, he talked, he went home. Unbelievable. Gil, on the subject of improv, the scene in Beverly Hills Cop 2 with you and Eddie, how much were you improvising? That totally. I mean, just the original script was, you know, I have these parking tickets, and is there some way we could get over this unpleasantness? Well, how about $200? That's what it was. And each time, like,

when I auditioned for it, I just, see, that's what happened. It was like I used to try to do the lines exact and want it perfect. And I just was playing with it. And every time Eddie and I did the scene together, we did it differently and just laughed and had fun. is it's called playing, you know, play the part. It doesn't mean you're supposed to sweat the part. It doesn't mean you're supposed to agonize the part. If you are playing, who knows what's going to happen? And yet pretty much the same thing sort of happens. And that's all you have to be. Yeah.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by RBC Student Banking. But first, a word from our sponsor. Watch more. Unlock more perks for less with RBC Vantage. Conditions apply. Offer ends June 30th, 2024. New eligible clients only. Complete criteria by August 30th, 2024. Visit rbc.com slash student 100. Planning for a summer road trip? Check. Luggage? Check. Music? Check.

Snacks, drinks, and everything we can win in a new game at Circle K? Check. With Circle K's Summer Road Trip game, you can win over a million delicious instant prizes and a grand prize of $25,000. Play at games.circlek.com or at participating Circle K stores. Here's another one from our friend the rabbi, Gilbert, Rabbi David Komarowski. How was Bob able to suppress laughter during Ed Begley's Yiddish soliloquy in A Mighty Wind? We had Ed here. Well, Ed is another amazing one of a kind, amazing, wonderful person in acting and in life and everything else. Sometimes it's very easy not to laugh in these things. If your character is sort of trying to get something from somebody else,

or you could actually be, they're silly, but you could be in a scene. So that never impelled me to laugh. In all those movies of which we probably made five, including one that maybe was on TV, I don't even remember. Oh, Mascots was the one. I don't remember too much. But let me see how I was going to say. I was going to try to do a short answer for a change. Let me work my way back to a thing. Let's start with a question. What was the question? How did you avoid laughing when Begley was talking in Yiddish? Lars, the Swede.

So that was no problem. It was brilliant, and Ed is brilliant. But also, you really don't want to laugh at somebody because it ruins their take. But then, of course, that makes it a little impossible not to laugh. The only times I really laughed in the Chris Guest movies were, too, when it was very late and we'd worked for 16 hours. It can be funny to just see somebody pick up a spoon and it's like, oh my God, I'm giggling and my lip is quivering. But really, Chris Guest

doing Corky, sometimes when I was tired, I couldn't be around Corky. I could be around Corky fine when I wasn't tired. But as soon as I got tired, I just, it's unfair. I mean, it's his brilliant work and you're tromping all over it and you don't want that to happen. Yeah, it's unfair. I mean, it's his brilliant work and you're tromping all over it and you don't want that to happen. Yeah, it's wonderful. And My Dinner with Andre, action figures. Yeah. Just watched it again.

Here's one for you. Let's see. Janine Duffy says, I don't have a question. Can you just tell Mr. Balaban I've always had a crush on him? Well, can you send me her number? Not really. And Sean Demery uh did you really get the role in close encounters because you told mr spielberg that she spoke fluent french yes they

asked if they needed an actress for french my agent asked if i did and i said yes and i went to the audition and they said say a few things in french and i said he'll give me a book who done it I said, say a few things in French. And I said, It's been many years since I've studied French, and if you give me this job, it will be very difficult for me. I didn't lie, but I said it in French. And they assumed from that you were fluent.

Yeah, and then they said, talk a little bit more, and I recited The Ant and the Grasshopper, which I had memorized in eighth grade. And then he gave me the script, and it didn't translate anything into French. I had to do it all on my own. So I went to Berlitz intensively for two months before the movie started. I want to get that book, The Close Encounter Diary. It's now called, that one can sometimes cost hundreds of dollars because it was made on tissue paper. Yes, just look for $460.

Don't buy it. cost hundreds of dollars because it was made on tissue. Yes, just look for $460. Don't buy it. We did it again for a British press called Spielberg, Truffaut, and Me. It's got some nicer pictures and it's a little better printed and it doesn't cost $400.

I also want to ask you quickly before we let you get out of here. You got mistaken for Dreyfus a lot in those days? Who knows? Yes. Constantly, in fact. And we're still really good friends.

But all we are is short Jewish, and our hair was receding at an early age. Other than that, there's nothing. So we're doing Close Encounters, and Richard is on a radio program doing an interview about the Ku Klux Klan marching on the 4th of July parade because it's the centennial or the bicentennial whatever it was. And he gets

death threats because you know the Ku Klux Klan doesn't like it when people say they're bad you know. So he's got like 12 guards and it's the big weekend coming up of the actual parade and the guards are getting bigger and bigger and he's under lock and, and they have to be really careful. And I go to Julia Phillips, the producer, and I say,

look, everybody on this set thinks I'm Richard Dreyfuss because I have a beard and glasses, and I look like he looked in Jaws, but he wasn't famous before Jaws. And they think of my beard and glasses, they think I'm Richard because in the movie now he doesn't have a beard and he doesn't have glasses. So could I please have some guards? And they said, well, if Richard gets because in the movie now, he doesn't have a beard and he doesn't have glasses. So could I please have some guards? And they said, well, if Richard gets shot, the movie stops. If you get shot, nothing happens.

Well, I guess there was some truth to it. Absolutely. Neither of us could figure out. Now, Ron Rifkin and I are, you know, we're like Siamese twins, practically. People get so confused with us. And then they think Joel Grey is both of us could figure out. Now, Ron Rifkin and I are, you know, we're like Siamese twins, practically. People get so confused with us. And then they think Joel Grey is both of us. And we went somewhere once, and the three of us were there together,

and people got really excited. But if you took the picture of the three of us together, we don't look anything alike. I want to recommend two movies, Bob. We like to recommend, during the course of these interviews, movies come up. We're going to recommend Gosford Park to our listeners that don't know it. Great.

I have to recommend the documentary, the Hitchcock Truffaut documentary that you narrated, which is wonderful. Yeah, he did a really good job. Your old friend, Francois Truffaut. Yeah, but did Kent Jones do that documentary? Kent Jones. Yeah, he's wonderful. Kent Jones. And the film is terrific for film lovers like us. Gilbert, but did Kent Jones do that documentary? Kent Jones. Yeah, he's wonderful. Kent Jones, and the film is terrific for film lovers like us. Gilbert, that's right up your alley.

You love Hitchcock. Yes. Francois Truffaut told me that when he was, when Albert Hitchcock asked him to write the book and do all that interviewing with him, Hitchcock didn't have anybody much who wanted to listen to him, so he told his stories, and like three months became six months, and Truffaut said at one point

they'd been working on him for like a year, and he couldn't bear to say, Alfred Hitchcock, I'm bored, I can't do this any longer, and he was so polite that he waited until Alfred Hitchcock literally had nothing left to say. Wow. Because I mean, he's a genius,

but everybody gets boring at some point, even me. What's your favorite hitchcock film what's a what's a hitchcock film that if it comes on television later tonight you're channel surfing you you have to stay through you have to stay well i like a lot of the old british ones foreign correspondent oh that's a great one uh is that one he did twice did he do it in england and then he did in america eventually but the one with joelRae is the one I know. That's the newer one. The Hollywood one.

I'm also very fond of North by Northwest for two reasons. One is because when I was a small child, I entered into the hotel, which I now forget its name, in Chicago, and it was Cary Grant filming a scene when he goes in and he's going to say, is Jessie Royce Landis, is that who the woman was? Yes, I believe so. And he's going into her hotel, and he comes up to the bell is Jesse Royce Landis, is that who the woman was in the thing? Yes, I believe so.

And he's going into her hotel and he comes up to the bellman and he says two words. And he did it 50 times. I stood behind a rope for 50 times and watched Cary Grant. And then it was another kind of like thing, like when I was at MGM when I was little. And also there is a scene in that movie that there is a huge mistake in it. So I always get a huge kick out of watching North by Northwest. Oh, is that the kid who puts his... It's the kid who puts his fingers in his ears.

Yeah, who anticipates the gunshot. And they can't cut the scene out, you know, because a lot of these things, as years go by, these things go away because they keep shortening the movies. But it's got an integral part of the plot and you can't remove it. So look for it. They're at the mountain.

The monuments are right outside the window and a little kid looking in the wrong direction puts his hands in his ears because he knows that even Marie Saint is about to pretend to shoot Cary Grant. And the noise is too bad. Gil, what's your favorite? I'd have to stick with Psycho.

You're sticking with Psycho? Yeah. I like Strangers on a Train. Oh, that's a great one. Maybe I'm in the minority there. And I like what's the one with Joseph Cotton as the shadow of a doubt? Tell us quickly before we let you run, Bob, you've worked with Bill Murray a couple of times on the Wes Anderson pictures and also Monument Man. Yes, it's great working with him, yes. And you guys have become, shall I say, a little bromance.

You've become buds. He's a great guy, and he's a lot of fun to be with. And we happen to have spent a rather large amount of time together occasionally during these Wes Anderson movies. Not in the movie necessarily, but just because we're in the same hotel. And he taught me how to putt well. He taught you how to putt? Really well.

He doesn't sleep much. And if you put a ruler on the ground, it's a three-foot putt, and you've got a little sort of shot glass at the end of the thing. You have to be able to putt so the ball stays on the ruler all three feet and ends up in the cup.

And if you can do it ten times in a row, then you can putt. And it's true. That's valuable information. You could never get it anywhere else. I saw an interview. Somebody was saying that there's a little bit of Truffaut, I think, in some of those Wes Anderson pictures.

I always thought Moonrise Kingdom, the relationship between the kids and the stuff with the parents, it doesn't look like Truffaut, and it's a very formal shot, the way it's done. And I thought, he taps into humanity in a way that Francois did beautifully. You ever see a movie called The Little Fugitive? Oh, my God, yes. Yeah.

Was that made in Chicago? Favorite of Gilbert's. No, here in Coney Island. Oh, no, he went to Coney Island, but yes. No, but I saw it in Chicago. That's why I thought, it's the little kid who runs away. It's wonderful. Yeah. And Truff kid who runs away. It's wonderful.

Yeah. And Truffaut loved that film. Yeah. Yeah. All the French New Wave. What do you want to plug, Bob? Is there another season? Are you in another season of The Politician? There's another Wes Anderson movie coming out. There's a Wes Anderson movie called The French Dispatch. That's great. That has gotten its release screwed up because of COVID-19. But I think it's coming out in the fall or some version. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. Henry Winkler and I are in it, joined at the hip in our little part.

We're brothers. That's all I'll say. We're not supposed to talk about the movie too much. We love Henry. Me too. He's been here. I did a second season of a series called Condor, and then the network collapsed. It was for something called DirecTV, the audience network, which no longer exists, but it was bought by HBO with a name attached to it, like HBO Weird or something like that.

So it might come out one day. And I loved it because in the first season, I'm this maniacal, horrible political person as often as I might want. And in the second season, I had a girlfriend and fell madly in love and then get killed at the end of the season. So it was a big change. Did you end up in a coma on The Politician? I don't end up in a coma, but I had a very long coma that lasted for about seven shooting days. But I did a lot.

When I was awake, I did a lot. And after my coma, I did a lot. But I did a lot of coma acting. At one point, the script literally said, a tear comes out of his right eye. And I was so bored that I thought, okay, I'm going to make a tear come out of my right eye. But I could only do it three times. After three times, I couldn't do it anymore. Will you write more children's books?

I might. I'm trying to sell the series McGrowl, May Have Another Life, because it did very nicely, but it only sold a couple of million copies, and they need it literally to sell 10 or 15 before they advertise. So we're trying to get somebody else to buy it and get a better cover you are busy i've heard you say ad you have add and you can't sit still forever you need to be involved in this is true and you're you're succeeding well the the covet for me if you ask me how are you doing with the kova yeah it's it's horrible it shouldn't be there and

what else what else can we say who who wants there to be people dying? But for me, I've had to sit still, and I've finished a few projects that I've been intending to get involved with. And, you know, so there's always, everything has, not everything, but there's always a little bright corner to everything. And for me, sitting still has been kind of good. How about you, Gilbert? Are you finding your life changed in any positive ways? Well, what's what I like is, well, number one, finding that I haven't changed that much. Like I sit mindlessly in front of the TV set. I never socialized before all that much, and I'm not socializing now.

That's funny. So nothing's changed. Yeah, yeah. So my life is pretty much the same. Although I don't have to rush to the airport, pack a bag and rush to the airport. You may never have to do that again. Oh, maybe. Gil, you may have to write some children's books.

Yeah. Like Bob. Yeah. Like Bob. Yeah. Find some new outlet. Bob, you are the kind of guest that obviously we could do hours and hours with, as you predicted at the beginning. That's the nice way of putting it. No, no.

We didn't get to Frankenheimer or Sidney Pollack or Ken Russell on Altered States. Or Wes Anderson. Well, we touched a little bit about Wes Anderson. Yeah, we did uh and uh or or uh or 2010 or or so many of the other things that you've done so well that's what happens when you're around a lot maybe you'll come back and play with us another time i would love that i had a great time you guys are a wonderful trio uh and it's fun so thank you i'm so glad i'm so glad you had fun gil anything else you want to ask this man?

Or you want to talk more about doctor visits? Yeah. Well, we'll have to next time we meet each other at a doctor's office. One of my hearing aids got ripped off when I took my COVID-19 mask off. It got twisted in my mask. And I tore my mask off. And it went into a bush. And I could never get it back.

So I'm wearing one. On my right ear, I have a $4,000 hearing aid in my left ear. I have a $75 hearing aid my wife found on the back of a magazine and it works just as well. Oh, I got one last one, Bob. Did you, did you know Michael Hitchcock was going to slap you in the head? No, God no. I only knew that he was getting more and more irritated with me and it was he's so much fun to work with. We had two days where the script said, Bob

irritates Michael. And that's what it was. That's a great moment. It was really funny. And you know what? When I saw the movie I thought, when it happened, I thought he had struck me really hard on the head and I thought I had screamed. And you on the head and I thought I had screamed. And you see the movie, it's like, boom, ha. Well, I mean, for our listeners, we've done 300 and what now, Gil?

316 shows. And this could be one, three, this adds up to the same amount of time that the 316 shows took. This is normal length for us. We had Begley, we had McKean was here. So by now people must have seen the Christopher Guest movies. And Gilbert still hasn't seen Spinal Tap. So shame on him.

Well, it's worth waiting for. I saw a documentary last night you must see called The Painter and the Thief. It's kind of amazing and strange and weird and wonderful. The Painter and the Thief? Yes. It doesn't sound promising, but it is. The thing with Christopher Guest's movies, it's like they're comedies bordering on tragedy. They are tragic.

Yeah. Sporky is a tragic figure. Well, if you saw all the footage, well, in the beginning, Chris shot much, much more, and as the movies went on, he realized he didn't want to be stuck in the cutting room having two years of cutting, he cuts he started and you know adhering a little closer to the story but in the beginning some of these

movies could have gone in many directions and it would be brilliantly fun to see them re-edited and see how many movies you could make from them but he would go mad I can imagine but Gilbert I think you nailed it I was watching Guffman and a mighty wind this weekend, and I was thinking, these are ultimately set characters who find themselves in very sad situations. Well, the relationship between Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara, which they do in real life adore each other, not romantically, but they do adore each other. And you could have made that into Camille, practically. Absolutely. Yeah, it's like every one of the characters is like in a dream world. There is a scene from that movie that never made it into the movie in which I think Jane Lynch and Michael Hitchcock and John Michael Higgins do a 10 minute take.

They did it once. It was perfection. They didn't do any coverage. It never ended up in the movie. No one's ever mentioned it again. And in it, each of them is trying to pick up the other one, and you can't figure out who's the initiator and who's the catcher. It's the best 10 minutes of improvising I've ever seen.

Try to get, maybe if Chris is ever on the show, you can squeeze it out of him. Okay, we'll beg him. We'll see if we can get him on first. Yeah, Bob, this was a thrill. Great to see you all. A lot of fun. Gil's going to sign off. Don't jump away.

OK, and I should say this is neuroses and it'll be cut out of the show. But I refer to Bye Bye Braverman as a lesser film, and that doesn't mean I'm putting it down. It means it's a film that didn't do great. Well, some of the best movies, you don't notice them for so long, and then you go, why wasn't everybody talking about this one? I never went to even bother to see it, and some of the best work does that. Yeah.

And, you know, things are popular in different time periods sometimes that weren't popular before. You want to say goodbye to this man, Gil? Oh, I'd love to. Bob, we don't want to let you go. We're having too much fun. I look back very fondly on the day that we encountered each other at Therese D'Arrelaine. And I hope we do again not there. And I hope to get to meet you in person when all this is over, Bob.

Well, if you're very lucky, we could make that happen. I'm feeling lucky. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the man who blew John Voight. Well, you should say the Midnight Cowboy, not actually John Voight. Not quite the man who shot Liberty Valance.

If I ever have a podcast, will you be on it? Can I make you be on it? He owes you now. Yes, yes. Okay. I've got it. I have a witness. Yeah. He blew him in the movie. He didn you now. Yes, yes. Okay. I have a witness. Yeah, he blew him in the movie.

He didn't actually. Although John Voight's a great actor, and it wouldn't be such a terrible thing. And a handsome fella. Yes. We've been talking to the very talented Bob Palaband. Bob, thank you so much for indulging our madness. It was great, Frank.

Thank you. And thank you, Gilbert. And thank you, Dara, wherever you are. Dara, it's Dara, but I call her Dara. Thank you, everybody. Excellent. Beautiful. Excellent.

As I travel down the back roads of this home I love so much. Every carpenter and cowboy. Every lame man on a crutch They're all talking about a feeling About a taste that's in the air They're all talking about this mighty wind That's blowing everywhere Oh, a mighty wind's a-blowing

It's kinking up the sand It's blowing out a message To every woman, child, and man. There's some mighty winds up the wind, cross the land and cross the sea. It's blowing peace and freedom, it's blowing equality. From a lighthouse in Bar Harbor to a bridge called Golden Gates. From a trawler down in Shreveport To the shore of one great lake There's a star on the horizon And it's burning like a flare It's lighting up this mighty wind

That's blowing everywhere Oh, a mighty wind's a-blowing It's kicking up the sand It's blowing out a message To every woman, child and man Yes, some mighty winds are blowing Across the land and across the sea It's blowing peace and freedom

It's blowing equality When the blind man sees the picture When the deaf man hears the word When the fisherman stops fishing When the hunter spares the bird, we'll still hear the wondrous story of a world where people can. The story of this mighty wind that's blowing everywhere. Oh, a mighty wind's a-blowing. It's kicking up the sand.

It's blowing out a message to every woman, child, and man. Yes, some mighty winds are blowing, cross the land and cross the sea. It's blowing peace and freedom. It's blowing equality. Yes, it's blowing peace and freedom. It's both you and me.