Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Brad Bird & Michael Giacchino Part 2

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

In this conclusion of a 2-part episode, Gilbert and Frank chat with Oscar winning writer-director Brad Bird and Oscar-winning composer Michael Giacchino about James Bond homages, iconic superhero themes, incorporating everyday objects into movie soundtracks and the over-the-top pleasures of the Wachowskis’ "Speed Racer." Also, Bernard Herrmann plays the Theremin, Lily Tomlin (almost) voices Edna Mode, Brad directs a modern-day film classic and Michael reveals the key to his Oscar-winning score for "Up." PLUS: "Tomorrowland"! The genius of Jerry Goldsmith! Al Hirt meets the Green Hornet! Milton Bradley's Fireball Island! And Michael recalls his time on "Lost"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Cool, ready for takeoff. Who are you supposed to be? Well, I'm Incrediboy. What? No.

You're that kid from the fan club! Frankie, Mikey, Braddy! That's it! Braddy! My name is Incrediboy! I've been nice, I've stood for photos, I've signed every scrap of paper you pushed on me, but this? Oh, you don't have to worry about training me. I know all your moves, your crime fighting style, favorite catchphrases, everything. I'm your number one fan. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Hey guys, Frank here, and we hope you enjoyed last week's part one of our very in-depth

interview with director Brad Bird and composer Michael Giacchino. We know you did. So here is part two. It's chock full of goodies. Brad talks about the experience of making the wonderful Iron Giant, one of the best films of the 90s. And Michael talks about some classic Planet of the Apes music from the 60s and unveils some strange instruments that were used in the making of that soundtrack. And Michael even takes some music cues from Gilbert, if you can believe that. So without further ado, part two of our terrific interview with Brad Bird

and Michael Cicchino. Enjoy. Here's a question from a fan for you guys. Given that the incredible movies, this is from Jeffrey Westhoff, given that the incredible movies have a ton of Bond homages in both story and score, obvious question, would Brad and Michael like our version of a Bond movie. Twice. Three times. Twice. Three times. Right, right.

Guys, protocol, too. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, that's a good answer. I love James Bond. I love those movies, but I feel like we did our version of it. We did our thing and I'm happy with that. Yeah. It's basically that, you know, Bond is not the, when we talked about it, we talked about Bond, but we also talked about the man from uncle mission impossible.

You know, there were a ton of spy movies. Secret Agent Man. Secret Agent Man! There was a lot of that in the early 60s. For me, it filled the space that superheroes were trying to fill. In other words, Superman was in reruns when I was a kid. I loved it. But, you know, George Reeves was a little tubby and he, you know, he was obviously going off of a springboard. And then Batman came on and it was campy, campy camp.

And Adam West also, you know, was, you know, not not able to. Yeah. And, you know, it was not convincing. And the Bond movies were over the top. They had crazy villains. You know, you had a guy throwing his top hat with a razor on it, you know. I mean, they were crazy. They were just as stylized as Batman and Superman, but they were a lot more believable.

And so for me, and my parents were cool. They allowed me to see those movies when they were rated M, you know, uh, for mature. And I was not mature. They, they allowed me to see those and, um, they filled that space for me. So when I think, when I was imagining a superhero movie, I went back to what I thought was cool when I was a kid and it was a lot of the spy films. I loved all those spy films and spy TV

shows and spy music and you know, so The Bond knockoffs too, the Matt Helm stuff Yeah, it's still, you know, in like Flint, you know, has some Flint pictures. Jerry Goldsmith and a great a great Bond knockoff

is the Get Smart theme yes right which is also a great piece of music written by Bill Dane his brother Gilbert and it was just all over television at the time it was amazing like you couldn't you know turn the channel without hearing something great yeah uh so and also henry mancini was a massive you know influence i would say even for for me on on the incredibles as well you know all of that so yeah i mean i still have

the peter gunn soundtrack that my dad gave me my dad bought it in the px in germany when he was in the army and uh and he you know that was one of the things he bought there when he was in the army. And, uh, and he, you know, that was one of the things he bought there and he's, it was always in our basement. I have that record, which I, I, I must've wore out the grooves on it. I loved it so much. I love what you did with Speed Racer too. Oh man, I love the movie and I love the soundtrack. Me too. The movie, the movie gets lambasted unfairly, but I feel like it's so ahead of its time in so many ways. It's a fever dream.

Well, the thing is, is that people don't realize. Like, I could see some movie executive going, yeah, that was a really popular show, Speed Racer, but we'll get the Wachowskis, so it'll be like The Matrix. And the thing is, is the Wachowskis actually knew the show. Yeah, it shows. Their whole mindset, as far as I could tell, was, you know, you sit down with a big bowl of cereal that has got about two days worth of sugar in it. And you power down three or four bowls of that stuff and you watch speed racer your heart is racing before the episode even starts yep and that kind of manic thing is what it is so when they did it at mach 5 you know and and over the top and the colors are over the top

and the you know the music is over the top. I mean, that's the perfect version of Speed Racer to me. I agree. guitar solo ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ To me, what drives me nuts is when they're doing a movie of an old TV show or a new version of the TV show, and they figure the way to modernize it is to take the theme music and put in a rap section. Right. Yeah, well.

Yes. That's about selling records, right? Or just, you know, or... Well, yeah, that's a big part of it, for sure. I tried to get Brad to put more rap music into Ratatouille, but he just didn't want to do it. He wanted to call it Rapatouille. I was like, come on, the kids will love it.

Rapatouille. Yeah. And I said, come on. Mike, you know Lalo Schifrin, and he's still around. He's still with us, God bless him. When you're doing your homage, when you're doing your version of the Mission Impossible theme, and I'm not even sure how to put this question together, how much license do you feel comfortable taking?

And did he ever get in touch? Did you guys ever have a conversation about it? Well, when I was hired for Mission Impossible 3, which was directed by jj abrams i which is a film i almost didn't get because i hadn't done a movie yet you know i was just incredibles was just about to come out but to paula wagner and tom cruise i was still just a TV composer, you know? And I think that they were at the time thinking about going with someone a little bit more established. I won't name names, but you know, that was the feeling. And I remember JJ having these conversations with me going, I don't know, I'm pushing and doing what I can, but I'm not sure how this is going to go.

And then The Incredibles came out, and that sealed the deal. That was it. And Tom loved the movie, and he was just like, yes, okay, you can have your guy, you know? So thank you for that, Brad. And then when it came to working on Mission Impossible, I was so nervous about what to do, exactly what you're talking about. I didn't know how much I could change it, what I could do. That's what I mean, yeah. I was very nervous about what to do, exactly what you're talking about. Like, I didn't know how much I could change it,

what I could do. That's what I mean, yeah. I was very nervous about it because I... Tribute and homage. Yes, and I idolized Lalo, you know? All the ones that weren't Ghost Protocol had a very shortened title sequence, too. They were very short.

And the first film with Danny Elfman doing that theme is literally like 10 seconds. It's like, dum, dum, dum, ah, you know?

Yeah. Well, we had fun with it. And on, on the one that we did together, I wanted to pay tribute to the opening titles of Mission Impossible, where they show bits of the episode to come under the fuse and do

a modern update of that. Michael had a lot more screen time because we did all of the main credits under that. He just went to town. Prior to that, on the first one, what I did was I called up Lalo Schifrin. I had never

met him and I didn't know, but I got his phone number. I called him and I was like, hey, Lalo, my name is Michael Giacchino. I'm going to be working on Mission Impossible. Would you mind talking about a few things? I have some questions. And he said, well, why don't we meet for lunch? So we met at this Italian restaurant in Beverly Hills. And I remember I was so nervous. I felt like I was about to ask him if I could marry his daughter or something because I didn't want to like ruin the whole thing.

But I'll never forget. I was like, all right, basically what I really need to know is like what should I do? What shouldn't I do? You know, what are my parameters? What's the roadmap? And he looked at me like I was crazy. And he goes, just have fun with it. Do whatever you want with it. Go have fun. No zithers. Stretch it, squash it. No zither.

Just go do it. And I remember him after hearing that, I felt such a sense of relief. And I just went bananas with it I had I had a blast it's really one of the most fun themes you could ever be blessed with working you guys you guys are smart to know that it brings you right into the movie yeah well and also Giacchino took cues from other cues that Schifrin had done for that show. Yeah. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da scenting that he did on the movie that I thought was great. Okay, wait. I just got an email from Frank Marshall and he said indeed he was. And he was also

in the army band with John Williams. How about that? So that rockin' Munsters theme was written by your friend's dad. That is craziness. There you go. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 Well, if I've accomplished nothing else today, Michael. That's amazing.

That's awesome. Now I've got to get in deeper with him about John Williams being in the Army band with his dad. I want to know more about that. Yeah. Tell me about them catching the clap. Did they ever? Another composer that I grew up with because I was a monster kid. And that was Hans-Jay Salter.

Do you know anything about him? I know he, you know, the Wolfman thing. The Wolfman. He did a lot of the Universal stuff, right? Yes. Yeah, he did all the Universal stuff. The early days of film composing. I don't know a lot about him personally other than, you know, what he's done

and there. I don't know. We should do a show on him. Let's do one where we just talk about him. Let's do a deep dive. I would love that. I just remember the Wolfman was da-da-da that were not afraid to be movies. I feel like nowadays there's so many films that are made that are afraid to be movies, you know, afraid to just be out there and be entertaining.

Everything has to be restrained and, and held back. And in many cases they're afraid for it to feel too emotional or too this or too that. The audience has gotten so powerful in terms of putting the studio on edge and on guard at every little move. But it puts management on guard. It doesn't put artists on guard. No, no, it doesn't. But a lot of times the artists are sort of held back. Prisoners of management, yeah. Yes, yeah.

Brad, here's one for you from Andrew LaPosha. Can Mr. Bird tell us about how he ended up being the voice of Edna, Edna Mode in The Incredibles? And I can't imagine anyone better, by the way. Well, thanks. The short version of the story is I was cheap and available. I actually I had somebody that I wanted this wonderful. Well, I think the secret is out now, so I can say it is Lily Tomlin. I, I wanted, and, uh, I met with her, my producer, John Walker, and I met with her down in LA and I, uh, I showed her pictures of the character and I talked about

the character. And as I was talking, I kind of did a little bit of the voice and she said, that's interesting. And then she said, would you mind just recording all of the part, you know, because she's only in a couple of scenes, just record it into this recorder and leave it with me. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, yeah, I guess I can do that. And so she leaves and I'm there with John Walker and he's reading the other characters and I'm reading Edna. And I'm looking at him like, what are we doing? You know, like she doesn't. Does she want to do this or, you know, so we do it.

And she's very nice. And she sends me on my way and she says, I'm going to listen to this over the weekend and I'll have something for you by next week and we can talk about it. I went, okay, great. And so I left and I talked to her and she said, you know, I tried, you know, kind of getting what you have. And I can't quite get it. I don't think it's as good as what you do. You know, I really think, you know, you should consider doing it. And about the same time I had an internal screening of the story reels of the movie where you have temporary voices, just people that work on the movie are the voices. And it's just to get kind of a generalized timing

and kind of be able to present the movie in a crude form. And after the screening, Andrew Stanton and John Lasseter both said, you should do the voice. And so I was just like, well, you know, I'm available.

I'm not going anywhere. So what the hell? So I did it. But it really happened by accident. I wasn't intending to be in the movie at all. And when you're in the park and you see the giant Edna Mode walking around, does it play with your mind? Well, yeah, I actually worked on that. Oh, you did? They brought the character up and wanted notes, you know, because, yeah. I love it. So, yeah, it's really strange, you know.

Can you do some of the voice for us now? All right. I don't know. What do you want me to say, darling? I don't do these types of shows, you know. What do you want me to say, darling? I don't do these types of shows, you know. I wait for the more prestigious offers

that never seem to come. It sounds a little like Zsa Zsa Gabor. It is. It's like Zsa Zsa Gabor and Maria Uspenskaya had a child. What's the woman from Russia with love? Oh, Lottie Lenya.

Yeah, Lottie Lenya. Fantastic. Let's plug something very worthy and that is, speaking of animation and animated films deserving a lot of respect, and that's The Iron Giant. and i want to bring up i want to bring up anthony michael your brother anthony's great documentary he's around

here somewhere which i which i watched oh and congratulations he's spooning his oscar he's yeah he's in the other room spooning his oscar he just he just won an oscar for colette but we but but uh the iron giant doc which is on the Blu-ray, is just wonderful. Yeah. I agree. He did a great job. He did a great job. It's wonderful and it's heartbreaking, too, particularly when you're telling the story of how you went to the multiplex.

And the standee had the broken leg. All true. I mean, what a terrific film, Brad. Well, thank you very much. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. But it ended up being happy because we got to make the movie that we wanted to make, which, you know, was kind of a fluke. But I'm really happy that we made it.

It's a masterpiece. And you can't dislike any movie that references mad magazine will eisner and zeppo that's the first and actually when brad was just here a couple weeks ago and uh which was really great because we hadn't seen each other in so long because that's nice working working on said musical working on said musical so but one of the things i asked him about was the scene he you know he animated one of the scenes in iron giant and it is the scene where hogarth uh is given coffee and if take a moment and just google hogarth coffee iron giant watch the scene because i have to say i think it's brilliant and it's beautifully animated and it's just you know we don't get to see you do that that often and so that is a great sort of little uh time capsule of what you can do well you're

you're very kind it was very stupid thing for me to do while i was trying to make the movie so it's so good because it was you know it was one of those high maintenance scenes we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast after this i think it was also admirable of you to not throw warner brothers under the bus in interviews that you've given and say that you you know you you were you were impressed i made some big mistakes too well that you made mistakes but that they were courageous enough to make the movie in the first place that's right run from the room when they heard your rather unusual pitch. Right. That they actually embraced the rather unusual pitch, which was very cool of them. But they were kind of, you know, they were live action guys and they

thought that that was a cool twist. So they didn't approach it like a lot of people approach animation. They just looked at it as a story, and that's how it should be approached. And, you know, animation is just a method. Here's something I ask every songwriter and composer who comes on this show. Where does music come from? I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, but I'll tell you this. This is what usually happens. When men and women get together, they have special feelings.

A man loves a woman. After they're married. No, what happens is I, for me, I need to watch the movie. Say if we're talking about a movie, all right, we could talk about a couple of different versions of this, but it's a movie. And I really take in the story and I track how it's making me feel. I really try to understand what the characters are going through.

And I really, it's a tough thing because you have to engage your emotions. You're not just making things up. That's, you know, I don't like to just make things up when I'm writing. I want them to feel like they came from someplace real. So it's really digging into the movie, no matter what movie it is,

and trying to put yourself in the shoes of those characters and go, how would I feel if that happened to me? How would I feel? And from that, I'm able to write something, you know? Yeah. Composers, I think are kind of like, uh, actors of the story, not one particular part, but of the story. They're like actors giving a performance of the totality of the story. giving a performance of the totality of the story and uh that's what they remind me of you know at their especially at their best because they're performing an aspect of the movie that is unique to to them and um you know it's hard when it's done well it's it's hard to separate it from the movie i mean i you think of the Godfather, you're right there with...

I mean... Yeah. Or you mentioned the zither before in the film. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, no, so it is one of those things. It is like being an actor. I always do think about it in those terms.

So if you do it right, you're exhausted by the end of the day. I'm sure. And I always forget, what was that that that the uh beach boys used and it was used in the yes it was used in all the 50s science fiction oh yeah it's so great uh the theremin and uh well you know most famously by bernard herman in uh the day the earth stood still which is incredible.

Big influence on Iron Giant, too. Yeah, I was just going to say that. Yeah. I love your little homages. I love that instrument. I have that. I actually played it on Super 8, the movie Super 8. So there's a portion of the movie where it's showing the movies

that the kids made, and we did a lot of lot of stock music, what we would consider stock music. And I got to play the theremin on it. Michael has a guy that has the most exotic... Well, I don't think he's left us, right? He's no longer with us. Yeah, Emil Richards is one of the greatest percussionists ever. But he had a giant truck full of these crazy instruments that were from all over the place. Emil, he was a percussionist. He played with everybody. He was best friends with George

Harrison. So in terms of music, he played every style of music. And he came in, I think it must have been in the late 60s, early 70s into Hollywood and became a studio session player and just could do anything, could do anything. But along the way, along his travels, all the concerts, all the shows he did over the years, he would collect anything that he would knock up against. It would make a sound. He would be like, actually, I have something I'll show you. Michael has gotten out of the chair and he's walking to his trophy case. I'm going to do play by play here. His eerie silence of the lambs lit face.

Yes, it is a little eerie. What do you see here? It looks like a pasta bowl, a metal pasta bowl. Yeah, it's just a metal mixing bowl. Excuse me. So when I was doing Planet of the Apes, you know, Emil came over to me and I knew this. Emil said, you know, I played on Jerry Goldsmith's,

the original Planet of the Apes, you know? And I was like, yeah, I know that, Emil. And he goes, well, I still have some of the instruments. Would you want them? Would you want to use them? I'm like, yes, what do you have? So he hands me a stack of these, right? And this one in particular was his favorite. He told me, uh, and I said, what, what, what,

what are you giving me? Mixing bowls? And he said, and he told me this story about how he was in a hardware store one day and Jerry, he was trying to figure out what he was going to use for the movie and do something because he was always trying to deliver some weird interesting sound that would help jerry with his scores so he uh he said he knocked over a stack of mixing bowls by accident as he's like looking around and they made this horrible clanging sound and he and he picked one of them up and there was some other thing there and he just started banging on it and this mixing bowl is is used in the original planet that was used in the original planet of the apes film and he would just do it like this he'd be like you know and it gets this really weird sound to it but wow mixed in with all the other percussion stuff it just creates such a unique

identifiable signature that you're not going to get anywhere else. And that was Emil. Emil was responsible for so many of these weird sounds. You know, in the very beginning of E.T., there is this sound. And there's no music, really. It's just the logo. It says E.T. And you hear this kind of a sound. Yeah, it's like ambience.

That is Emil on a giant gong with a super ball. And he's rubbing, dragging a super ball against this giant metal gong and creating this weird, you know, sound. Wow. And, you know, I used to use that a lot on, I mean, he taught me so much about all of this stuff. You know, some, you would think weird sounds

are created by synthesizers and things like that, but he was a guy that was able to make these sounds with real things. I assume that clanging noise in Planet of the Apes was meant to create a sense of dread. Oh yeah. Yes. Yes. When you were hitting the mixing bowl just now, I thought, oh my God, I see the movie in my head. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. Yes. Yes. There's a lot of chaos in

that sound and he captured it so beautifully and uh and of course jerry was one of the most inventive composers ever to live and he was always looking for some other thing to do that also is is those are a couple of your best scores as well i mean i thought those the michael scores for the new apes movies were amazing. Absolutely. And mixed really well, too, in the theater. They really filled the theater. He's my favorite guest to do research for. And I always notice with musicians who they sometimes will refer to as hack musicians.

But it's like mechanical that there are certain notes that are going to make you happy and certain notes that make you sad. Yeah, yeah. It's very strange, isn't it? Like you could sit there and go, you know, that's not a happy sound, right? No. You know, that's not a happy sound, right? No. You know, but then you- But now play it on the banjo.

You change one note of that. You know, suddenly all you're doing is changing one note. Wow. And you feel the difference. That's just one note and it's a half step. It's, you know, the notes between a note. So the note between the D and the E is the half step there. You know, and that's just a C minor chord or a C major.

And then there's the chords that are like, this is one of my favorite ones, this major seventh thing. You know? That's a very specific feeling yeah and you feel there's a sense of melancholy there that you you know and then there's also the combination of chords if you start with and then you go to just change the one one thing you know and it's just suddenly like you want to you want to cry you know it's like this weird and and it's this power that I think no one really truly understands, you know, we know just enough. it doesn't use words. But that's the stuff. To have that come at the end of the process is scary as hell

because it completely influences the experience of the movie. And if it's great, it makes it. And if it's not, it can just kill you. Or if he's annoying me, I can really like, I know which buttons to push by doing something wrong.

This is just the way you like it. So if you just wanted to pick up a check and you didn't care how the quality of the music, you could probably write a movie's theme in about like an hour i guess yeah i mean you know depending on yeah you could you know but it's always much better if you actually care about it it will actually come out better if you care about it which is gilbert can't relate to caring about your work that i understand that was made painfully clear obviously you've never seen me if you think i care. That's a language he understands. But from the audience's point of view,

it's like I see a lot of these superhero films, and I can't tell you what the theme song is at all. Like, you know, I mean, when I was young, or even John Williams' score for Superman is super iconic. Yeah, it stays with you. You think of Superman instantly when you hear that. And Danny Elfman's

thing for Batman is equally memorable. Michael is one of the few guys that still has an identifiable... You have a melody in your mind when you think of a certain character and and i feel like you know the the others are are kind of into this ambient wall of sound that that is interchangeable to me and michael it's a gift uh okay uh for this part of the movie, we're getting ready.

There's a montage of everyone working out. We're going to win this big game. Could you do that? We're going to win the big game? Yeah. Well, normally you would just go, use the eye of the tiger. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. And they're swathering oil on each other here. Finding a sunlit room for the oil to reflect off of. I mean... There was one of those scenes in Speed Racer when they're building the car the night before the race I mean, I'm trying. There was one of those scenes in Speed Racer when they're building the car the night before the race. And they only have like six hours to do it or 36 hours or whatever it is.

That's the name of the cue, I think, 36 hours. But yeah, that was that those things are really crazy. Since we have our friend John Murray is here with his daughter, Samantha Murray, and she was just asking you before we turn on the mics about Up. And since we're talking about emotion, just talk a little bit about finding that the key to that score. Because you told us about it last time. I did play that. That chord is the key to that whole movie. That's it, huh? Yeah, that's it.

The F major seventh. You can go right off of that. It tears my wife apart every time, every single time. Sometimes what I'll try to do is sit down, and when I sit at the piano, the first thing I'll try and do is, OK, if I had to distill this into one chord, what's it going to be? And it's's very difficult and it's not always achievable but for that movie it seemed to work for me to do that and then and then from there it just you know melody is a very tricky thing because you want it to feel like it's something you've heard before but you also don't

want it to be suddenly you're like singing some other song, you know, so it's it's it's this it's a magic trick in a way. It's about leading. But I think it was also very smart of you to do kind of a waltz thing because it's a dance between men and women, you know, and this is's used to go behind the house being lifted up into the air, the core of that moment is the relationship between him and his wife. Well, we almost messed that up talking about how music can ruin a movie. There's an interesting there was an interesting thing that happened in that scene when the house is being lifted up where we knew we were going to use that theme and we're going to do it in a big, big way. And I remember Pete Docter and I were talking about it before I started writing. And he was like, it should feel triumphant and big, like something momentous is happening. And he's going on this adventure and he's going to just take off and leave everything

behind. And that was sort of the feeling. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense. That's great. The exercise montage. Yeah, basically. So I went and I wrote this piece of music and we recorded it. We were all so happy with it on the stage. It was big and grand and adventurous and all of those things. But then when we watched it in context with the movie, when we were reviewing it, it felt very wrong. It felt very wrong. And it felt like we were missing and we were

forgetting the most important thing of that scene which was you know that this is all about his wife his relationship with his wife this is essentially his last dance with ellie yes you know and and and pete and i both sort of sat back and were like, okay, we need to rethink this. Let's take another go at this. Let me have another go at this. And I went back and I wrote a completely, it was essentially the same music, but it was much slower and much quieter. And it became more of a soft sort of waltz, you know, that was much more nostalgic.

It never let you forget what this was really about, you know, and to see that sometimes when I do concerts, I'll play both of those back to back to kind of explain to audiences how music works and what it does and how it can change the story and how you can, you know, you have to be really in tune with it. But sometimes when you're working, you're going so fast, you don't, you know, you miss it. And it. But sometimes when you're working, you're going so fast you don't. You miss it. And that was one of those ones. Luckily, we were able to go back and redo it.

Yeah, he had a moment like that in Ratatouille because oftentimes he will try out a theme not knowing exactly necessarily where it goes. Like, here's a sound that this movie should have. And he recorded the version of the Ratatouille theme with the full orchestra. We had like five minutes at the end of a session and he had not recorded it yet. And he did this very lush, very romantic version of the song. And we had a recording of it and it was just one take. And it was not for the film necessarily. It was to hear to hear it with a full orchestra.

And so he said afterwards, he said, you know, it's probably over the top. It's probably too romantic. But there it is. And, you know, I'll I'll do a version that's not so romantic. And so we finished the sessions. He does the version that's not so romantic for other parts of the movie and it works perfectly and everything's great. And I have not come up with the idea of the review yet. And I, and I have the idea for the review

and it seems so crazy to me that I have John Lasseter and Andrew Stanton come in and I say, look, this is I understand how these work. This is the part of the movie where you get fast and you get loud and all that stuff. And I said, but the movie seems to want to be this different thing. recording that I did a version, I did the narration, but I took that recording of the theme that I had in the bank and I put it behind me reading the words of that review and that persuaded them that it could work. And if I hadn't had the super romantic version of it, I don't know if the scene would be in the movie. And then we just used that version. I think we did another take because you had some technical things you wanted to clean up. But it was that emotional version

of it is behind the review. And that was orchestrated by Jack Hayes. Jack Hayes was one of the great orchestrators of Hollywood of all time. And when we were working with him, he was in his 90s. And he belonged to an orchestration team, Leo Shukin and Hayes. And I think Shukin had died many years ago,

but Jack had continued to work. And I worked with him on everything that I ever did up until... He actually orchestrated the married life scene. I wrote it and let him do the orchestrations continued to work and I worked with him on everything that I ever did up until he actually orchestrated the married life scene. You know, I, you know, wrote it and let him do the orchestrations on that. And he was just an incredible guy who had this incredible knowledge of old school voicing, you know, old school Hollywood voicing. And that's part of the reason that, you know, I think that works so well is he had some great ideas on how to deal with some of the chords and

the progressions and things, which was amazing. You know, I loved him. I like Brad's story because it's the perfect marriage of the storytelling and music. I lucked out that I had that in my back pocket because if he hadn't chosen to record that and record it with that interpretation. Or if we didn't have time or something, you know, we may not have had time, but we had the time, so we did it. Yeah, yeah, right. How much time do you spend immersing yourself, Mike, in something like Ratatouille or Coco? You know what the assignment is. You know what the style of music is, the flavor of music. What is the homework like? And do you

stop at some point because, no, that's too much direct influence? Well, for me, because I'm such a nerd about these things, there isn't really homework. It's just about, you know, because I've been doing this homework for all my life. I see. I've been listening to that style of music, all the different styles that make Ratatouille. Ratatouille isn't one style of music. And one of the great sort of directions from Brad at the time, I remember was, look, think about this score as you're in your kitchen, you got home late from work, you don't know what you're going to make for dinner, look around, see what you got. We'll put a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of this. So for me, it was about taking like Debussy, it was taking Django Reinhardt, it was taking a little bit of

Henry Mancini. It was like taking all, I have little bits of all this stuff. Let's see what we can make out of this. Whipping up something delicious. You know, and that's what Ratatouille was, was really just pulling from all the influences and things that I loved and seeing how we could all make them work the same way that a chef would throw together a meal based on whatever you had in your kitchen. You know, and it sounds trite, but that's what it was. One of the things that happened on Incredibles was we had, we talked with someone else about working on the score and it didn't work out. You know, he was just not into it and not doing what we needed.

And so the word got out that I was looking for a composer and I got a deluge of CDs. And a guy that was working on the film had worked with Michael and knew Michael, Teddy Newton. And I remembered him as well. And I had CDs from Michael. And one of the things that struck me about Michael's work at that point, which was video games and television, was that it was he was a chameleon. He could do he did a World War Two thing and one and he did a spy thing and another and he did a romance. And, you know, he could sound like a 30s cartoon. And, you know, there was nothing that was beyond his range. and that's one of the

things that convinced me to uh you know try to work you know get him involved in in the projects were because he's a chameleon which is like a good actor again you know he can play any part you know and and uh it's so insane though it's so insane that you that I got that job. Like, I feel like, you know, looking back, you know, for a company like Disney and Pixar, Pixar especially had been working with Randy Newman and Thomas Newman. And then the next thing is, well, let's get this guy who has never done a movie. Well, there's there's there's your explanation for the time that went by before I called. Yes. It was a controversial choice to go with someone who had not done a movie yet.

But everyone got persuaded. Once you play his other work, it's like it's a no-brainer. It's like, you know, he's absolutely going to kick ass. You just know it. I always thought it was because you had already blown the money on the guy you just fired. So they were like, well, this is the only one that we're going to be able to afford.

Not at all. I just thought of another scene. The girl says to the guy, you know, you lied to me and I'm leaving. What is this movie? I got to know what this movie is. It's his Yiddish porn movie.

Yeah, it's a Yiddish porn movie. It's the Yiddish porn film that he's writing in his head right now. Fluff her on the roof. After she says that to him, he's standing there in shock and sadness. You know, like there's an old, you know, maybe he's an old detective, let's say. Let's say.

He's confused. He doesn't understand why she's leaving. You know, this is all like, what's going to happen to me? And then I think, then he looks over and he sees the knife on the, on the counter, you know, and, and he looks up and she's still getting her coat on. And then he's just like, Oh, I'm going to grab. He slowly, his hand is slowly moving towards the knife, you know,

and then he's like dragging, you can hear the knife scraping along the uh the counter as he's dragging it towards anyway yeah we could go on with and then his uncle who's from the yiddish theater comes in and he's in a really good mood do you have a charisma over there i don't have i don't have the clarinet. No, I can't do that. Brad, here's my last listener question for you. This is from Megan Reinhart, no relation to Django.

Question, what is going on with Brad's 1906 earthquake film? Oh. Well. Our listeners know their stuff, Brad. Yeah, wow. I still am interested in it. It's a very weird project. There's a lot of misinformation about it on the internet.

Supposedly, they shut it down because we did a budget, and it was so wildly out of control that they shut it down. And it's like, it never got to that point. It never got to the point where we felt that we had the story it's a very um specific time it's an amazing uh uh city at a moment in time between the wild west and sort of a sophisticated 20th century um they were still clunking people on the head and shanghai-ing them for money. But they had gas lights next to electric lights and horses next to automobiles. And it was both centuries happening at once in a very corrupt city hall and just wild.

It's a wild thing. So to get that all in a movie-sized box was really a tall order. But I still have, I'm very interested in it. Michael is interested in it. It's an enormous undertaking, but I think that it would be amazing if it all could come together. It would be great. I'd love to see it. You're not one to shy away from an ambitious project. No, as long as I drag that guy. Oh, hey. Yeah. We gave it our best shot. You have a clarinet with you?

I don't have a clarinet. Do you have some other- Gilbert, what are you? Do you have some other kitchen utensils that you'll... What are you, Lawrence Welk, Gilbert? You realize that Gilbert is making a movie and he's not paying Michael. That's what's happening here.

Oh, yeah. This is how Hollywood works. What is that? This is... I got this... You know, I worked a bit on Sacha Baron Cohen's last movie, Poor At Two, and he sent me this as a thank you. Is that a didgeridoo? I worked a bit on Sasha Baron Cohen's last movie Porat 2

and he sent me this as a thank you Is that a didgeridoo? No, it's like some crazy trumpet thing. It's a didgeridoo Okay I don't even know how to play it. Michael is blowing a four foot long trumpet Yeah, wait

Yeah, that works. And you know, the weird thing is, I just actually recorded this. I recorded this and some other instruments I had to make a new instrument for Jurassic World, which we just finished. It sounds like a, I was going to say it sounds like a dinosaur. Yeah, it works out great. Except the way I used it, I recorded it, pitched it down. It becomes more of an effect. It's like a weird thing.

Here's what I was going to ask. It's not a clarinet. Sorry. Gilbert's project involves a dinosaur and a Yiddish horn. This is the Yiddish horn. We're heading down this Yiddish horn thing again. Does he have a hither? He's getting ambition now.

I want music. I don't know if you could do it without a clarinet. I need music for a Jewish spy movie. A Jewish spy movie? Yes. Wow. Yeah, that I don't know if I can do at this very second. What the fuck are you on this show?

I can throw something for you and I'll get it to you. You know? Oh my God. I'm trying to think. I have the Yiddish stuff, but... My fantasy is to hear you do a version, a variation or an adaptation

of Billy Mays' Green Hornet theme. Oh my God. You know, one of my favorite versions of that theme was recorded by Al Hurt. Yeah, Al Hurt. You know, one of my favorite versions of that theme was recorded by Al Hurt. Yeah. Al Hurt. You know, and, and, and it's on the trumpet. Oh my God. It is like one of the best versions. And actually that was a big influence for me for on the Incredibles as well.

And in particular for the scene where Dash figures out that he can run on water. Right. You know, and I just remember the energy of that tune and that theme, and especially Al's playing. I was like, I want it to feel like that. So those really crazy jazz voicings in the horns, they're all inspired by that version of the Green Hornet theme. What was funny is that the horn section was exhausted after that take.

They were like on the floor by the last note yeah yeah in fact i get rough recordings you know uh like a day or two after the recording session and what cracked me up is they have all the sound of the conductor going you know okay you know tacit this, let's go. And right after that take was finished with that piece, you could hear a couple of the horn guys go, like that. And I always connected that. I always hear it when I hear this thing, even though they clip it off, of course, you know, that is the true version of that cue is the, yeah, it's true at the end of it because we exhausted them ¶¶ we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor gil i've, I've got one question for each of these boys

before we let them get back to their lives, unless you want Mike to pull out a flugelhorn. Unless we're still in development on your film. I want, if I were a rich man, but in a horror film. Make it, if I were in richmond because it's kind of a little sketchy in rich if i were in richmond if i were a rich man i think you would just have to do this yeah you could do this we have to get you to sing it though gilbert i mean we just have to do this Yabba dabba dabba Yeah, you could do this

We'll have to get you to sing it though, Gilbert I mean, we'd have to do that Yes You know, I think we could Yeah, you could do it If you want to hear Gilbert sing Rent Aladdin 2 If I were a rich man

Yabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dabba I think that's like the Flintstones version of Yabba dabba do Yeah Or as Brad said before, yabba dabba don't One for you, Mike One last one for you from Charlie Bruce Michael's work on Lost was phenomenal.

You brought me to tears so many times, especially with the death scenes of Charlie and then Sun and Jin. Any one quick memory from Lost? And our friend Josh Chambers adds, if you revisit Lost, could Gilbert possibly get slipped into the Dharma Project's original design team? I'll just say yes to that. As the designer of the canned goods. Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah, that's what he's talking about. That's the crying.

Anyway. Beautiful. What's the question, though? One quick memory of Lost. It could be short. You know, I have so many memories of that, but I remember one of the biggest ones was like wherever all of us, and I have such good friends that I've made from that show. A lot of times you do these things and you move on

and you don't see these people again, but the cast and crew I've remained close with and it's great. You still do concerts. Yeah, we still do lost concerts. And if any of the cast is available, they come and we hang out. And it's a great way to just kind of reconnect with all the fans. But I do remember watching the finale together with the whole cast. We were together watching it and it was one of the most emotional experiences that i've ever experienced because you know you do something for for that many seasons and together and you will really are a family and that show in particular everyone was a family so i know and and there are people who complain about the ending and

this and that i personally absolutely love the ending ending. I feel like if life were really like that, why wouldn't you want that? If you all end up together with the people that you sort of experience all these wonderful things with and bad things as well. But I just, I don't know. I love the movie and I loved watching it with the people that we made it with, the finale with the people that we made it with all those years. That was probably, that was a great, and they would always come in and guest conduct sometimes. In fact, Jorge Garcia is a good friend and he and I, for the past, I think we are now up to almost 48 weeks. He played Hurley for people that don't remember. Yeah, he played Hurley in the show and Jorge and I, every Sunday with a couple other friends of ours, we get on Zoom for the past 48 weeks and we play a game called Fireball Island, which is an old Milton Bradley game from the 80s.

And so, you know, staying in touch with these, I've made a lot of good friends with everyone. And it's just, you know, it's just such a special show. So thankful I was involved. Okay, I lied. This one's from a friend of yours. Gene Beretta. Michael, having grown up around Philadelphia, let's hear a little of your best Philly accent. Well, I'm going to get a glass of water. I'll get a glass of water and watch out for that pile of cement over there that hasn't dried yet. So, yeah.

The Beretta Brothers. You just did their podcast. Yeah, I did. They're the best. Great guys. And we love Kirk, too. Oh, yeah. Gilbert, unless you want to turn into Dimitri Tiomkin again, we're going to let these gentlemen

have given us so much wonderful stuff. I think you've got to follow up on Gilbert's movie. I think he needs to go all the way with it. I think we could do a reading of it first. We'll just do a reading, a Zoom reading of it once we get the script in order. I'm very happy because Brad wants to make my movie. Oh, well, that, not going to happen. I will go see your movie.

He'll go. He'll see it. Let me thank some people and we'll get out of here. Michael, thank you for being such a sport. Thank you both for entertaining us within an inch of our lives. Not only here tonight, but for the last couple of decades. I want to thank Michael's associate, Curtis Green, who helped us get this done. We want to tell people to go see Anthony Giacchino's documentary, Colette,

and also the documentary about Iron Giant, which is terrific. And what else is coming up? Quick plugs? Anything you want to talk about? Can you say anything about Batman other than you're working on it? I saw the first 20 minutes yesterday.

And maybe that's all I'm allowed to say. But I left very happy. That's good enough for us. And I hope you turn out to be right about movie theaters, because all of those movies that, all of those tentpole movies that Michael's working on need movie theaters. Yes.

And, you know, where's Gilbert's film going to go? Right. Well, in that theater down on Second Avenue. You can have it there. Could you, can I hear the porn porn of my movie? Oh, well that I definitely

did like the wah-wah guitar thing. Oh, okay. But no, then the dinosaur comes in right at the end. Kind of ruins the feeling.

To our listeners who haven't seen The Iron Giant, please see The Iron Giant. Yes. One iron giant please see the iron giant yes one of the best i won't say one of the best animated films ever made i'll say one of the best films ever made oh very very kind absolutely thank you thank you guys for putting up with our nonsense oh no problem this is essentially like uh this is essentially a conversation that brad and i would have so So consider a therapy. This feels very normal.

Gilbert, anything else you want to torture these gentlemen with? I know you're, I know you're a sadist at heart. Yeah. Couldn't we do a porn dinosaur? By the way, Brad, how much of that stuff... As a podcast? How much of that stuff from the cool comic book shop in Tomorrowland did you actually get to take home from the set? Not very much, unfortunately.

Oh, that looked like a set dresser's dream. Yes, it was actually, yes. It was fun for that reason, you know. It was just like, you know, everything under the sun was in there. I have to say that Giacchino's cameo made that film for me. Yeah, man. This is what I've been telling Brad. Speaking of stories, he's got a whole backstory for this character.

Yeah, Mike Lazarus is his name. Mike Lazarus, and he's putting his life together. Mike Lazarus. I couldn't see the Disney badge. I was wondering if it said Mike on it. I still have it. It does, actually. His life was going bad, and he's got this ride operator thing as a way to put it back together.

I have it somewhere. There's a whole story. And I loved his cameo in Coco, too. That was a nice homage. Michael has gotten out of the chair. He's back at the scary trophy case. Michael, do you hear me? Yes, I can hear you.

You can hear me? He's got it. He's bringing it. Oh, here it is. Get the horn also. It puts the lotion in the basket. Get that dinosaur horn. Oh, he's got the badge.

Look at that. Very nice. Now, can's got the badge. Look at that. Very nice. Now, can you get the fucking dinosaur horn? That's still here. Don't worry. All right. I want a romantic moment between two dinosaurs. That's actually very accurate.

We could talk to you guys for hours. Thanks for doing this. Absolutely. Looking forward to doing it again one day. Take care. All right. Bye-bye. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the very talented Brad Bird and the how the fuck does this guy pay his rent? Michael Giacchino. He's got an Oscar, Gilbert. He walks in and he puts the Oscar down on the table like Shelley Winters did. Yeah, I don't get it. I'm sorry.

The Oscar and the Grammys do all his talking. Yeah, Michael, Michael, I'm sorry. I don't get it. Yeah. Thank you, boys. Thank you. Bye-bye. So grab your scouts and goggles, let's fly. I've mapped out our journey, we're up here to stay.

Let's grab our aerosol, on to the moon we'll be there. My spirit of adventure is something to indenture. My spirit of adventure is you. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.