Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Brenda Vaccaro Part 1

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

In this first part of a 2-part episode, Emmy-winning and Tony nominated actress Brenda Vaccaro regales Gilbert and Frank with stories from her seven decades in show business and discusses (among other things) avoiding nude scenes, the drug culture of 60s-70s Hollywood, the physical demands of acting in a disaster movie and her memories (both good and bad) of filming the Oscar-winning classic "Midnight Cowboy." Also, Uncle MIltie hogs the spotlight, Michael Douglas drives a hard bargain, Aunt Bee meets Jack Nicholson and Al Pacino takes Brenda on a "magic carpet ride." PLUS: Remembering Ben Gazzara and Harry Guardino! Loving Robert Mitchum! The REAL Ratso Rizzo! Anthony Newley directs! And Gilbert wows Brenda with his John McGiver impression! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Dine-in only until 11 a.m. at A&W's in Ontario. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is an Emmy-winning, Tony and Oscar-nominated actress who's been gracing the big and small screen as well as the Broadway stage since the early 1960s. You know her familiar face and sultry voice from hit TV shows like The Fugitive, Columbo, Saint Elsewhere, The Golden Girls, Ally McBeal, The King of Queens, Friends, Nip Tuck, and

the recent Sex and the City reboot, and just like that. Sex and the City reboot, and Just Like That. She's also given memorable performances in movies like Summertrees, Zorro the Gayblade, Capricorn One, Airport 77, The First Deadly Sin, The Mirror Has Two Faces, Love Affair, HBO's You Don't Know Jack, and Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, as well as Jacqueline Suzanne's Once Is Not Enough, for which she was nominated for an Oscar,, of course, as a seductive Manhattan socialite in the 1969 film classic Midnight Cowboy.

She's also received Tony nominations for her work in Broadway productions of Cactus Flower and The Goodbye People and co-starred in a Neil Simon productions, The Odd Couple and Jake's Women. In her long and very impressive career, this lady has worked alongside Robert Mitchum, Jack Lemmon, Kirk and Michael Douglas, Dustin Hoffman, Warren Beatty, Peter Falk, Michael Caine, Vincent Price, Alan Alda, Ron Liebman, Richard Benjamin, Sally Struthers, and Barry Levinson. in the Sirius XM Studios and excited to be talking to one of our favorite actors and a woman who says she used to sneak into Broadway plays with James Caan and Dabney Coleman,

the great Brenda Vaccaro. Wow, that's some review. Brenda! I'm scaring me how old I am. I think we dropped one of your Tony nominations. I feel like I'm 104 right now. Thanks for being here. We're back at SiriusXM just to bring everybody up to speed.

You did that brilliantly, Darlene. Oh, thank you. Oh my God, I'm exhausted. Yes. And all that work. See, I always say these double as obituaries. It's so true. Prop up out of the coffin and say, Jesus, thank you so much. I'd forgotten. Brenda, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me. You're back at Sirius. I think it's great that you do this show. Do you? I think it's an honor and a pleasure. That's very kind. And I love going back to the past because more and more as I see what the future is and the present. This show's all about the past.

I think, Jesus Christ, get me out of here. You know, so I think the past has such great class and such style. And there were wonderful people that you could make friends with and that you could remember. And remember with glee and joy. You're on the right show. You know, now you can't wait to get rid of them. Is that how you feel about Gilbert?

No, not at all. Not at all. I think Gilbert's wonderful. Do you want to explain what was in that intro that you used to sneak into Broadway shows? Yes, yes. For the second act? Well, it was Jessica Walter and Liz Ashley.

It was really the girl group. We would ask the, who were those, usherettes, can we see the second act of West Side Story? She'd go, yeah, okay, stay in the back, stay in the back. And we would sneak in and we would see the second act. And you guys were all students at Neighborhood Playhouse in the United at neighborhood playhouse yeah yeah so we tried that a lot of times a lot of times we got a no you know but the times we got a yes we're like glorious glorious i remember i snuck in to see midnight cowboy the film yes oh how wonderful yes it was uh at the cameo theater on eastern parkway i love it you remember the theater yes it's in that great and and i remember there was a side door and you

could kind of get your fingernails in it and yeah because they wouldn't allow uh it was like an x film yes it was at the time. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. How'd you get that part? I know Marion Dorsey was the casting agent. Yeah, she was great. Boy, who's the likes of her now? A legend.

Maybe Bonnie Timmerman. Yeah, not a lot of them around. Not at all. There's not a lot of anything around anymore. John Schlesinger had seen you on Broadway? No. Yes, he had. He was not impressed, but Marion pushed me. Because he didn't think I was right for the part okay and so i came in and i auditioned and i think i don't know he just

called me back i don't want to say he was impressed but he called me back he was terribly english you know thank you very much for coming one of those where where you thought, well, that's doom. If I've ever heard doom in a voice, that was it. Thank you very much for coming. And then he asked me back, and then he asked me back, and John Voight was there, and I read with John. And then my agent, Arnold Hoskwith at the time, started getting excited. He said, I think something's going to go on here. He started to feel that it was going to happen.

I had to audition quite a few times before he settled with it i saw an interview with you that that voight and hoffman weren't his first choices he was after michael sarazin that's he was for the joe michael sarazin was not permitted to leave his contract interesting with somebody else and i think that just was the end of his career to tell you the truth think about it it would have made his career and it would these are the things that happen to make you feel truth think about it it would have made his career and it would these are the things that happen to make you feel like you're in vegas you chose the wrong card at the wrong moment you know what i mean the the other one who was supposed to be joe buck was uh

what what's his name blonde-haired very handsome actor was in barbarella oh oh i know who you mean actor was in barbarella oh oh i know who you mean uh three names oh god yeah he was supposed to be john philip law john philip law john philip law oh my god they asked him to be in uh you know joe buck and and i think the movie he turned it down he turned it down yeah and because i mean why would you turn down a movie that has uh how can it not be a great film if it has jackie gleason and groucho marx oh he turned it down for that movie but yeah for skidoo skidoo unbelievable he's turned down why he didn't kill himself uh right then well i mean he was very handsome yeah but he was just a little stupid i didn't think the guy had a keen eye about where he was going you know what i mean now i didn't think he was a career strategist you like schlesinger although i heard you say in

an interview he could be a little on the bitchy side. Always. Yeah. Always. Always bitchy and then laughing hysterically after he'd say something so cruel. And he wanted you to be nude. And this is where Anne Roth comes into the story. Right, right. Oh, you know that. Yes. Oh, my. Yes.

Because you had a famous line that you said to him about your mother. Oh, yes, yes. That's true. Yeah. About your mother. Oh, yes, yes, that's true, yeah. I think he kind of went along with pasties on your nipples and panties on. He kind of didn't say anything when I came out with the pasties.

And he never looked to see if I had panties, but I did. And I got into bed, and, oh, they were driving me crazy. I was doing this a lot, moving them around. And finally he said, take the fucking things off. You know, and I said, really? He said, yes. He said, Julie Christie and Darling took them and threw them across the room. I said, oh, okay. I did.

I threw them across the room. You know, and that did that. But he was very bawdy about everything. But what did you say to him about your mother? Yeah. Because that's a funny line. What did you say to him about your mother? Yeah.

Because that's a funny line. The greatest story is Anne Roth, because I was panicked to continue the work without any cover, without anything. And she said, don't worry about it. We'll fix it. And I said, we will. And this was her first film, I think, wasn't it? I think it was her first film. It's interesting. It may have been.

Yeah. And I'd worked with her in Cactus Flowers. She had done my costumes there, so I knew her. Still with us in your 90s. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Working. Yes.

Just went to London because of a contractual thing. Tell us about John Voight and Dustin Hoffman. Oh, they were great. They were wonderful. But I want to tell you this thing about Anne Roth, because this was kind of movie magic. So she said, I'll fix it. Don't worry. And I said, how?

Because he wants me nude. She said, let me think about it. So she went back to Pennsylvania where she lives. Not because of me, just that's her house. So she went there. And on her way home, she stopped at like a drugstore or like something that would be like, what, a store where you go in and buy everything. A general store?

Yeah, like, okay, something like that. And on her way in, she sees this guy with his trunk open, and inside he's got all these furs. So she goes up to him and she said, let me ask you something, what's all the furs about? He said, what do you want to know for? And she said, well, I was just wondering if i could buy that red fox that coat so he said yeah how much she said 250 he said yeah take it she gave him 250 in cash she went to her purse she gave him 250 in cash it was magic that she had $250 in cash in those days.

Yeah, sure. No ATMs. Yeah, right. Right. And she brought it in the next day. She said, here's what you're wearing in the scene. And saved you. Saved me.

Yeah. Oh, come on. That was like, you know. And Mom and Aunt Margie didn't have to see you. And so when Schlesinger saw me, he said, oh, darling, I absolutely adore it and a brilliant i loves he fucked in fox so tell us about boyd and hoffman well i mean they were really splendid guys i mean they were fun to work with it was easy it was cozy they both were theater people you, they had done plays. They had done off-Broadway. I love Dustin. I just thought he was a hoot, you know. And you know how he got this part. Did you know how he got the part?

Wasn't he, didn't he drag Schlesinger to see a waiter? Down to see a waiter in the meat market area. Right. He takes him to a restaurant and this guy whose hair was all going in different directions and was like, you know, one of these, and had pants that were hanging off of him, and he had a limp. And he looked at Schlesinger, and he said, you see him? That's Ratso. And Schlesinger turned to him, and he said, I think you've just got the part. How about that? Oh, my God. Very clever.

That's how he did it. Wow. That's how he did it. And I think that's just because, you know, who was he going to put in Ratso? Who, what actor was good enough to do a Ratso? And what original look, what original persona would that be? Because it's such an important part. It's the integral part of the whole piece. You had worked with Dustin years earlier. Do's the integral part of the whole piece. You had worked with Dustin years earlier. Do you have any memory of that? No. I'm going to have to dig it out of my notes.

I'm too old to remember. An early TV performance with him. I'll come back to it. But do tell Gilbert. I would not be surprised. Tell Gilbert about the- But I adore him. And I adore John Voight. It's just, you you know he was like

so innocent in front of the camera he go do i look better this way doing a muscle pose he was a little into himself he wanted to do joe buck but he was so joe buck uh-huh do you know what i mean yeah sure it would sit there on the bed funny when you look back on the young uh john void yes it it's uh it's it's what what's her um his daughter angelina joe lee it's angelina joe lee that i mean it's you go oh my god she definitely looks like her yeah yes she looks like that young when he was because he was a pretty actor yeah and unfortunately politically is just as confused as unless imdb is full of shit brenda you were in a show called the doctors and the nurses in 1965 with the young dustin

hoffman oh my god yeah now before gilbert, you know who produced that? Quinn Martin. Am I right? Probably. Probably. Quinn Martin was one of the greatest television producers at the very beginning. He produced everything back then. Do you remember? Yes. A Quinn Martin production.

That's the first time I worked for Quinn. I loved Quinn Martin. Tell Gilbert about the party scene where all the Andy Warhol people showed up, and you were talking about the girl who dyed the monkey green. Oh, Jesus Christ. Does this ring a bell? Yes. So as soon as you're invited,

everybody from New York City to the party, word went out and every creature, crazy or not crazy, and when I came to work one morning i walk into the set which was that building they were going to have the party and i don't know dead stairs like this i can't remember there was big rooms all over i think it was andy warhol's one of his buildings because viva's in the movie and yeah yeah the wild people are in the movie. Anyway, there's a girl standing there and she had on a green outfit. I'm trying to remember now all this.

And there was a green monkey sitting on her. And a green parrot on this side. Her nails were green and her hair was green. And she said, good morning. I'm here for the party. And I went, really? I couldn't believe that somebody like this would get asked into the party. Weren't there just like couples having sex in your dressing room?

Yeah, well, I found somebody doing that in my dressing room. It was 1960s, you know, freak out fun. Sure. No rules. Schlesinger wanted that. He wanted this crazy party that he knew was happening in America right then and there. You know, people were free in an exotic and eccentric way. Interesting.

The Andy Warhol way. Look at his people. You know, what was her name? Ultra Violin. Everybody was kind of like, you'd say, are they crazy? You know? You'd lean forward to a friend that wasn't and say, what's with them? You know?

And this girl that was all green, I don't think she got into the party. Uh-huh. Because I think she was really gone. Or the monkey. Yeah, or the monkey. Or the parrot. Gilbert, now would be a good time for you to favor Brenda with a little bit of your John MacGyver

from Midnight Cowboy Joe Buck you got a strong back Joe Buck you're gonna need it get on your knees get on your knees and let's pray

Joe Buck that's brilliant oh my god that's so good we finally have somebody here for midnight cowboy i'll say you could and wasn't he brilliant great wasn't he the right person to cast in that part and then when he opens the door and he was there's jesus christ yeah it was it's not on your name i just re-watched it and every other party played was a comedy part yeah and this was perfect he was brilliant yeah i never forget that casting i think it was some of the brilliant casting that john did oh it's terrific he did surprising actors you You went like, what? Even small parts. Balaban, too, who was here. Yes, yes. Oh, God, wasn't that great?

Yeah, yeah. That scene, he was pretty damn brave to do that scene. He was a kid. You were a kid. Yeah. Were you 21, 22? We were all kids. Yes, I think I introduced him as the guy who blew John Voight.

In the movie theater. And then doesn't have any money. Well, that was the only way to do it in those days oh my god let me tell you won't so missus something you take your hair damage it take it and you go right on with your work that's all there's time where to go sir yes i believe you are cowboy Cowboy, eh? Yes, sir. Yeah. Ready for some hard work, son? I'm ready for anything.

Yeah. I reckon it's going to be a lot easier for you, Joe Buck, than for most others. It's going to be like money from home, sir. Money from home. There's your strength, son, see? You've got the way of putting things earthy so that anyone can understand them. I warn you, Joe Buck, I'm gonna use you. I'm gonna run you ragged!

Woo-hoo! You're a wonderful boy. You and me, we're gonna have fun together. It don't have to be joyless. Hell no. Don't have to be. Say, why don't you and me get right down on our knees right now? How's that strike you? Where? Right here, here, here, right now. Why not? Why not? I've prayed on the streets. I've prayed on the saloons.

I've prayed on the toilets. It don't matter where, so long as he gets that prayer. It don't matter where, so long as he gets that prayer. Oh, you know, you, like a lot of guests we've had on this show, you've worked with Milton Berle. Oh, yeah. So I have to go to the next question. Did you ever see Milton Berle's dick? No.

You know how happy I am about that? If I had to say yes, this conversation would have gone on way too long. You dodged a bullet, Brendan. But he talked about it a lot. Did he? And I finally said, I'm not interested. Shut the fuck up. I mean, he was a character.

Do you know he upstaged me once? You know what he did? He replaced my father in the Herb Gardner play. The Goodbye People, yeah. Silverman, that was his name. And he walked all the way upstage to say his line. Wow. So if I had walked up there, I would have been upstaged because then he would have probably gone around.

You know what I'm saying? Sure. So he was upstaging me. It was an old-fashioned way to upstage somebody. So I thought, I don't give a shit. I walked up there and I looked at him and I said, okay, say that line again. So he said it again. He was like beside himself

and I turned to the audience and I said, you see? And I said my line. I was like, you're not going to do this to me. He was famous for upstaging. Yeah, you're not going to get away with this with me. Now, what did he say about his take? You know something?

How big it was how women would swim around in it i don't know listen he was embarrassing he was really embarrassing did he see you run into him in a club but years later or the friars or something and he said this one is funny yeah yeah yeah yeah he pointed you out watch out she's funny like that you know because i all i but he was scared of me after a while because you know you couldn't do that to me you couldn't upstage me without me knowing i was being upstaged or if he would flub a line i would say to him you want to say that again so my laugh line makes sense do you know that in other words somebodyubs there, the setup to your laugh line.

I would look at him on stage, not so the audience, but it would go. You want to say that line again? You know, say it again. And he would say it again. So in the end, I was bossing him around like his wife, Ruth. I mean, he had no chance with me because I didn't fall apart like a $2 suit. Was he insecure because the role was too big for him?

I think he was because one time, Walter Matthau, I heard him go backstage. Yeah. And he went into his room and read him the riot act. Really? What's wrong with you? You can't have an accent? What's wrong?

Who is this character? Who are you playing do you have a picture in your mind that was math out wow tell us about math out i loved him oh my god i didn't i never got to work with him yeah but wasn't he brilliant oh great yeah you did work with jack lemon and you notice we're jumping around here a lot yeah i love jack i'm gonna make segues here because before we turn the mics on, we'll tell the audience that Brenda showed us. And before we go, Walter Matthau.

I didn't work with Walter, but I knew him. And he always in Universal Commissary. How you doing, kid? And he'd wink. That meant a lot to me. He's going to do a little Matthau for you. He's the kind of person you're going to be for the rest of your life.

You're not going to make any effort to change. I wish you guys could see Brenda laughing and applauding. He's the best. He's a great mimic. You're the best, darling. How many John McIversons? It makes me miss him. That's from the one he did with...

With Jack Lemmon. Odd Couple. Odd Couple, it was that? H-10-4! The Carson and Cat people. Oh, God, weren't they great? And the one he did with, who was the little guy, the comic, famous, famous.

Oh, George Burns and the Sunshine Boys. George Burns, wasn't that the best performance? The best. I love that character he played. I just want to say, too. Impenetrable. You could not get a word of sense into it at all. It's the Maresco Theater.

It's so true. Let's quickly segue so we don't lose the thread. Jack Lemmon, before we turn the mics on, Brenda opened up her phone and showed us a picture of her from the set of airport 77 which you did with jack scary and she terrified gilbert and i with this photograph why don't you tell our listeners what the photograph was it's me jumping off a helicopter a helicopter plane into the water, which was the Pacific Ocean, 12 miles out from San Diego. And with, I think, six or seven, what do you call those guys? Navy SEALs. Navy SEALs in a plastic boat with their hands up like this, without my shoes, meaning that

the plane was sinking. That's what they were trying to show. And that I had to jump into the water to save myself. And I had on this jacket. Right. And I was crying. I said to Jack, I don't want to do this. I just got over pneumonia.

I can't do this. And he kept saying, kid, this is showbiz. Come on, don't cry just get the thing over with jump and go for it they're gonna catch you it's okay brenda you're gonna be okay what if i die and break my neck or something he said you're gonna be fine you're gonna go just go for it just go and so he was standing there like this you see his hands they were crossed he had just gone like this he'd just given me go and so he was standing there like this you see his hands they were crossed he had just gone like this he'd just given me that push and he was waiting to see what happened i just watched it last night and i assumed that you guys were in the tank at universal no way and you were actually in the pacific in the pacific ocean and i just gotten back from

two weeks of trying to heal from pneumonia because every day they put water all over you and as a matter of fact to leave it to have every day they put water all over you. As a matter of fact, to leave it to you, DeHavilland, I have a picture of her with her false eyelash this way, hanging on her face. I was going to ask you about that. When they flood the set and you guys are hit with the water. It was huge things like this coming at you. As a matter of fact, they hit her in her chest and she screamed like you can't believe. Not even, it was like if she had put that in her performance of The Heiress, she would have won three. You're in this scene with Robert Foxworth and Monty Markham.

Oh, everybody, look at that. And Lee. And Lee Grant. Yeah, and you guys are all suddenly, they let go of this water in this tank. Everybody showed up, didn't they? Joseph Cotton showed up. Christopher, Joseph Cotton's in there. He had an ascot on.

I think he was sick from smoking or something. I don't know. But he was such a gentleman. We've never interviewed anybody who got hit with water like that. That water was forceful. I can imagine. And so what they were trying to do was to create the kind of force that when you land at the bottom of the ocean or you're on your way down

there there's a lot of water flushing in so i think a lot of actors were scared it was scary did you at any point think like all right enough i gotta get out of this yeah you mean that movie in particular i kind of had a bad time because, number one, I got sick. Because every day that my blouse was wet, my underbody, bodysuit was wet. You know, you were freezing. You were cold. You know, and then they do the water again. It was warm water. It was arduous. You know, an arduous experience. And now you could stay at home and they could just computerize you in the ocean.

I guess, yes. It's a different kind of thing. One time, one of the women who was married to one of the producers, and she used to be a singer in France. Don't ask. I don't know nothing about her. She's standing on the set. You want to know? Because it's when the plane falls back into the water and she's like this.

She's doing this. And Jerry Jamison, the director said, hey, he said, whatever her name was, Nicole. I can't remember her name. You don't have to do that, honey. We have a hydraulic plane. We can do that. You know, people were doing the most ridiculous things to try to look like they were really

involved in this crash. What about your fight in that scene with your longtime friend and our guest, Lee Grant? I know. I know. And she's hysterical. Well, set the scene because I watched it last night. She's hysterical. She's married to Christopher Lee. But he's

in the water. He's in the water. He can't get back in the plane, right? She's married to Christopher Lee. Yeah. She's trying. But he's in the water. He's in the water. He can't get back in the plane. Right. She's trying to open the door to get him. And you're the flight attendant that has to prevent her from opening the door. Correct. That's going to let the water rush again. And you and Lee have to fight.

Yes. We have to fight to get the door. Because you can't open the door, you idiot. I said, if you open the the door then all the water's going to come in and kill everybody right and her husband's at the window going me me i want in so she goes crazy to try to open the door and i try to stop her you know yeah and she really got very upset in the scene she was pushing me and doing it real and i was like could you calm down you guys were friends to this point you'd already made the tv special what the fuck are you doing

you're beating me up you know so that was one take that didn't go and you finally land a punch on her yes i did you saw that i got tired it's great of her state of reality you know she had it had to be so real for her you know we lovely now I do gotta mention a name I was trying to hold it till later what everyone's bringing it up, and that's Michael Douglas. Oh, God. We were puppies. We were young colts together. Sweet. Yeah.

He was wonderful. Your hippie boyfriend. He was a hippie dippy. Yeah. That's what I called him. So that was in Streets of San Francisco. You met him? No, no. What?

Where did I meet him? On Summer Tree, didn't you? Yes. He chose me to be in Summer Tree with him. Yes, he did. Yes, Streets of San Francisco came later. And that was the film his father let him produce. Right, right. Or his father's company produced it.

And tell Gilbert who the director of that picture was. Anthony Newley. Can you imagine? I don't know how that happened. Oh, jeez. Anthony Newley? Yeah, isn't that weird? What kind of fool am I?

Who never fell in love? You think that I'm the only one that I have been thinking of? What kind of... I didn't know you were going to get a show, did you, Brendan? That is so great. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Gifting Dad can sometimes hit the wrong note.

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Please enjoy our products responsibly. What happens when 20 extremely athletic Canadians who thrive on competition and won't settle for less than number one find themselves on a team? Taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing. Working together on a team

with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada is one thing. Working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge. And sparks are going to fly. New episode Sundays. Watch free on CBC Gem. What can I say? Because he was an interesting dude. He really was.

I think he was looking for a girlfriend i think and he wasn't with joan collins yet and he seemed kind of desperate and sort of like like he felt he was out of place directing this interesting you know he wasn't comfortable and why he took the job i don't know you know but he was't comfortable. And why he took the job, I don't know, you know. But he was very competitive with Michael, you know. And Michael and I were forming this kind of new relationship. And he was trying to get in the middle of it. And, you know, he was like a bit of a nuisance.

But I really felt very kindly towards him because of his work. His work was brilliant. You know, the singing. Good songwriter, too. Yeah. There's always a joker in the back. There's always a cardboard clown. The poor painted fool falls on his back.

But everyone laughs when he's down i love that song what is that song in the game but he's only funny by mistake everyone laughs at him just the same they don't see his painted heartbreak jesus where does that come from that's some musical none of us have seen i don't even know what is that from stop the world i want to get off i think so okay stop the world that's michael that's just a pure guess and leslie brickus in here we're like yes leslie brickus yeah yeah he used to write those songs for him huge talent so you've so to follow gilbert's thread and we don't really do gossip here but we'll do a little bit of it sure you and michael obviously clicked yeah on that movie and that that launched a seven-year relationship seven years it was wonderful

in many ways we we we came to hollywood he was in New York. He did a play called Huntsville. And his father said to me as we walked backstage, he's not going to do theater. And I said, he's not? Why? He said, he doesn't have the voice for it. Take it back to go back to Hollywood. How interesting. Isn't that interesting he said he's going to be a he's going to be a star but he's not going to be a theater star because you have to and that's one of the things that's really true you know he doesn't have that kind of a voice projection yeah yeah or that kind of a voice that you need to be on the stage gilbert you're a

projector you could start a street car. I don't think Michael had it. But in the movies, he became like that. You know, Streets of San Francisco. We packed up. I had a cat that had three babies. I took them on the plane. And we went to, I gave up my apartment in Gramercy Park.

Oh, I loved it. Anyway, I gave up my apartment in Gramercy Park. Oh, I loved it. Anyway, I gave up my apartment there, and I went to New York to live a life with him there. And he was right. We went to build a stairway to paradise, and by God, we did. We ended up sitting in a circle. Everybody wore white. There was Joni Mitchell, Warren Beatty, Julie Christie Key and Brenda Jack And I don't know

Robert Town Wow Smoking a joint What a crowd Talking about what we were Going to do in Hollywood Angelica wasn't there Not yet

Okay Not yet What did you guys But when I met her She became my best friend And she is up to this day I adore We're big fans

Oh my god She's crazy We had Danny here As I told you. Danny Houston. Oh, yeah, right. So you guys had some sort of ceremony, but it wasn't a wedding. It was a hippie ceremony, thank you very much.

Okay. It was in Joel Dean's backyard. He was our agent. And I wore a long dress with flowers in my hair. You know, these girls that were all on Sunset Boulevard sitting on this sidewalk with little elastic things here that came off. And then the umpire elastic and down dresses flock velvet down to the bottom. And they'd come up to the car at a red light and they'd throw a joint in the car and go, peace. Great days, Brenda.

That was the best. That was the best. I smoked it too trust me trust me things were pure in those days did kirk want you guys to make it official i think he did yes i think and did too i think i was there long enough yeah you know kirk would say things tell me you're trying just tell me you're trying. Just tell me you're trying. Now, Kirk is like the definition of a movie star. Absolutely.

It's like you can't, there'll never be one like that ever again. And you know, I really learned a lot from him because during the rushes of Summer Tree, he would be sitting in the back and he'd say brenda and yes sir he'd say when it's a close-up on you and it's that close you can't move do not move your hands don't move you're moving too much just be still say your lines find another way to adjust well how interesting and it was interesting see that was a lesson he tell you and when i did that other movie that howard kotch produced uh he knows more than i do jackson suzanne movie yes once is not enough he was in it yeah right yeah and he would say don't turn your head that fast you're turning

your head too fast he said you need to have a new reverence for the camera. That's fantastic. A reverence. Did he tell you how to enter the set? To walk onto the set? Oh, yes. Oh, this was great. He said, my dear, he said, here is the key. And you are a star. You're becoming a big star. I want you to walk on that set every morning

and have people ask you, is anything wrong? Can we get you anything what can we do is are you all right and i said really he said listen to me do what i say he said you're in command now so he had it to a science how about that to a science what a wonderful thing to say that's pretty cool that's pretty cool what he said. You're so right, sweetheart. He had it down to a science. He knew what to do all the time. And I saw one of the greatest moments of nepotism in my life when Michael Douglas convinced him to give him Cuckoo's Nest he had given it, or was thinking of giving it to Peter Fonda,

and Michael was having a shit fit in the cab up to a Japanese restaurant. God knows where. Who remembers? I don't even remember the sushi. And we're in the cab, and here's Michael. Dad, give it to me. I grew up with it. I know the guy.

You know, I mean, I know the book. It really it to me. I grew up with it. I know the guy. I mean, I know the book. It really belongs to me. I want to produce it. I've got $150,000 in that thing. I can't give it to you. I got to give it to somebody who's produced something. Dad, I'm the producer. I'm telling you right now, I can handle this thing. I know exactly what to do with it. It's got to be written as a screenplay. I've got Larry Taubin ready to do it. I'm going to make you more than $150,000. You listen to me. I'll make you millions with this picture because it belongs to me. And I'm going like this and looking at him in the middle, in the backseat. I heard it. I heard him win his father over. Finally, Kirk got out on the wrong side of the street, said, I'm getting out of here.

All right, all right, you can have it. And movie history was made. Movie history was made. And cab ride. Isn't that great? That's a true story. When you saw the Oscars, the ceremony, and you see Cuckoo's Nest winning Best Picture. But we all knew it was going to be.

You've got to think, I was in the cab when it all happened. But that beautiful moment when people use the word nepotism, if it can be that beautiful, if you can win it with such grace and such wisdom about what you're going to do and how you're going to do it, and you can't give it to Peter Fonda, I'm of the same generation, Dad. You give it to me.

It's me who deserves it. And he made magic. And I read it. And I know that book backwards and forwards. And you can't give it to anybody but me. And I see this plea. And I see Michael leaning forward talking. And I thought, wow, this is beautiful.

This better work. I got goosebumps just now. This better work. Kirk Douglas spent years trying to get that made for him. He spent thousands. He had $150,000 in it, if I recall. And for him at that moment in this time in his life, I think it was a lot. I mean, you know, people thought more of $150,000 than they do today.

It's impressive when you think of Michael being a young producer. Not really. Not seasoned. No, he's never done well. But he has the sense to bring in miloš forman and and and nicholson but that's after a lot of people but still he was still with not not knowing they were really judgmental but the great thing was jack jack nicholson you know they worked on writing this thing he closed himself off in a room with larry larry hobban

hobban and they would write and write and i'd do this and put a sandwich in on a piece of plate and shove it in there we're not eating oh god they're on drugs again you were living well well you know yeah yeah in benedict canyon right but it was like that was the 70s in Hollywood, you know. Wow. Everybody was on drugs. You name it, they were on it. They were on it, man, you know.

That's why we were back in the days when we got the hippie wedding. We were with Joel Dean, and there was this table that was laid out. Instead of cake, it was all these joints. These joints and booze. Bottles of booze. Whiskey. Brewer bourbon. Vodka.

And all these joints, baby. But you didn't like LSD, you said, because it made you see. Oh, we were in Bali, Indonesia. I didn't like it at all. Yeah, you didn't like it. They make it from the cow shit over there. It's kind of bluish.

I see. You didn't like it? And all you do after you've seen one thing eight times, like this thing, eight times, you go, I want off of this. Anybody got anything like two Tylenol? Anybody got aspirin? You can't say you didn't try everything. I tried.

I tried. You were there? Yeah didn't try everything. I tried. I tried. You were there? You know, when in Rome. And speaking of getting advice, and Nicholson, he gave you career advice, too. Oh, he did. That guy was great. What did he tell you? Well, not was.

He's alive, but I adore Jack Nicholson. What did he tell you? He said, I'll tell you something, baby. He said, don't you do television? I said, but I make money. Don't do television. You're a movie star. And I said, but that's ridiculous.

I'm an actor. You are a movie star, Brenda. And if they're looking at you at this size, and he did his hands like cinema. What is that? Was it cinema? The huge. Oh, CinemaScope. CinemaScope. Yeah. His hands were out here. I didn't? Was it cinema? The huge. Oh, cinema scope.

Cinema scope. Sans radio. I didn't know there was a screen that big. And he said, and they see you this size. Do you really think they're going to come and pay to see you in this size? It's fascinating advice. Isn't it?

Something he said, never do it because it diminishes the star capabilities, the star position. He used a better word. I can't think. But anyway, he was determined that I shouldn't do American television. He popped up. He's never done television.

The only place you've ever seen him is a basketball game. To Andy Griffith shows. But he wasn't Jack Nicholson yet. Yes, he was on the Andy Griffith show. Yeah, well, You never saw him again except at the basketball game. Not till he's right. On one of the Andy Griffith shows,

every sitcom has to do their 12 Angry Men episode. So Aunt Bea was on the jury and he's a guy accused of stealing a television set. Oh, wow. And he's a guy accused of stealing a television set. Oh, my God. Was he good?

I think he was the father of a bully. Oh, he has a baby and leaves it in the town. That's right. But this is so long before. Almost like his real life. Yes. Long before he's a live-in star. He had babies with different people um speaking of movie stars that

you loved robert mitchum yeah i loved him he was like everything to me really yeah everything can't find that movie either i'm just going home yeah oh god i learned everything from him everything he was just bre Brenda, watch yourself. You got the common touch. I said, what's that? People think they can come up and hug you and touch you. You know? And he said, they can hug you.

And he said, it's no good. Just keep walking, baby. Don't look back. I love it. Isn't that something? He was like, I was so in love with him, I couldn't see straight. And I just worshipped the ground he walked on because he didn't act. He just was to be.

Right. You know, I saw him lose his temper. I saw him hold up a bag of grass in one of those black garbage baggies, the brown one. Yeah. And he said, I guess this will get us through the summer. He liked his cannabis. And I said, what is that and he went you think i'm holding garbage here he said this is mishwa khan and i said mishwa khan

what an idiot you know he couldn't get over how dumb i was he said that's a state in mexico where they have the best grass grown and known to man he would know who brought that to you a little guy on a burrow with a sombrero all right what more do you need to know and he said just try it well we rolled one i tried Guess what? I need to be carried back. I bet. I need a gurney to take me back to my room. It makes you like this. I wish we had video. You were at peace, man.

You want to talk about peace from grass? You were at peace. That's a movie star, though, huh? Night of the Hunter. And you worked with Peter Falk. You were at peace. That's a movie star though, huh? Night of the Hunter. And you worked with Peter Falk. Yes. Charming. A couple of times.

Cookie. Yeah. Susan Seidelman's movie. Yeah. And you did a Columbo. I had a Rottweiler at the time and I brought a broad filo to work. And so under the table where everybody was eating out by the beach because we were doing God, that was such a rich show.

The table was long. The fried chicken was great. Colum doing, God, that was such a rich show. The table was long. The fried chicken was great. Columbo, you mean. Yeah, Columbo. They had the good craft services. And I had Philo with me. And Philo was very interested in Peter Falk. I don't know why.

And he kept going between his legs like a puppy. And Peter kept saying to me, is this dog dog all right it's a rottweiler i said no don't worry get this dog off of me you know and the dog then put both legs up on his thighs and wanted to kiss him and he went god almighty brenda get this dog off me it's a rottweiler you like he loved animals yes but but you know this was sc's a Rottweiler. He loved animals. Yes, yes. But, you know, this was scaring. The Rottweiler scared him.

You liked him personally. Oh, I loved him. Yeah. I loved him. He would say things like, you see her do that scene? It's from the crew. That is a great actress.

That's what you are. You know how he would... He could love actors. He was so good to everybody. Now, what I said was that your baby sister, she's so beautiful. Teresa was only two years younger than I, Lieutenant. Oh, look, I didn't mean...

No. You know, I had this younger brother. He was like a year and seven months younger than me, but I called him baby. He sounded like everybody else, so I just said that brother. He was like a year and seven months younger than me, but I called him baby. So did everybody else, so I just said that automatically. Never mind. But you're right, of course. She never had a facelift, either.

Facelift, huh? Oh, she's a natural beauty. And she's so sweet to everybody. Look, even when they ask her dumb questions, look how sweet she is. Lieutenant, I thought you were out looking for her killer. Oh, I am, ma'am. There's just some things that I want to learn about her first. Like what?

Like she never quite ever grew up? Never stopped talking to strangers? Was always the fairy princess in the family? Except that hasn't bothered me since high school when she got all the dates and won all the English prizes because I discovered I knew how to make money for everybody. And she discovered

just how much she needed me. Excuse me, ma'am. It's just this part here. He was so loving. You liked his pal Gazara as well, a favorite of Gilbert's. What is it? Ben Gaz loving. You liked his pal, Gazzara, as well, a favorite of Gilbert's. What is it? Ben Gazzara.

You liked Ben Gazzara as well. I loved him. Those guys were great. You know what? One of the worst things in my life is turning down John, who was the partner, the other guy, the other actor. Cassavetes. Cassavetes.

What'd you turn him down? He called me down from the actor's studio. He called me from the actor's studio, and he asked me to come down and do a play with him and Gina and Carol Kane. I said, I can't. I'm just so sorry. You regret it. Huh?

You regret it. To this day. Yeah. To this day. I was shooting a Polaroid commercial. And as you know, that took me to the nearest bus stop and that was it not taking jack's advice i should have gone down and worked with them on some play they were doing i don't know what it was

whatever it was it was john casavetes i should have just gone and spent the day what kind of guy we were throwing names around too before we turned the mics on and and brenda was delighting gilbert and i with these names harry guardino oh i loved it ben gazzara yeah we just those guys were a team you know they were the italian guys running the city but nobody knew it i love these character actors oh they were so good they were so good and their laughter and their jokes everything about their humor was just i don't know i found myself just laughing laughing so hard I had to go pee. I was just in love with all of them. They were so good.

Harry Gardena was in everything. He was. He was great. He worked all the time. He was great. And he had an affair with Janet Stewart, who was the socialite. Okay, go ahead. Janet Stewart, Rhinelander Stewart, who she was married to John Rhinelander

look at everybody looking it up I'm looking it up and he had she was madly in love Janet was her name and it was Serena's mother Serena was in the neighborhood playhouse with me Serena Rhinelander Stewart she was an heiress

and her mother married this man who bought and owned Washington Square and hired Sanford White. He's loving this. Sanford White. Because I know. To do the inside of Washington Square. These people were rich. Let me tell you.

And he was in love with her. And he was having an affair with her. And she was breathtakingly beautiful. Good stuff, Gil. Show me a picture of janet oh rheinlander stewart i wonder if this little thing will work you work in syria yeah we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast after this let me throw let me throw some more fun go go go i just thought if they popped up i'd be really tell us about working with pacino well i've known him since we were 18

do you know what i mean we both had marty bregman as a manager yeah and we were both with him for years and so every party that marty breman would give, I would see Al there. And we would flirt with each other. He was just the most, you know how beautiful he was when he was young. Oh my God. He was so handsome. We were just reading, we had an author here who wrote a book about the Godfather. And George Lucas's's wife said to coppola cast him because he undresses you with his eyes yeah and he has a very powerful a very powerful presence when you're with him you know and you loved working with him and barry levinson i loved it i had the best time ever you played cavorkian jack cavorkian's sister yes and you you came up with the idea to do that scene

in the Bob's Big Boy I read it your idea I read it yeah and you told Barry and somebody who was a friend knew about it and um wait a minute what was this now the sister what was it again she knew that she knew why he was arrested why the cops found out yeah in the scene about him yeah and it was because of the sister's daughter that's right who took a check that he wrote that he paid signed his name or something and gave it and the police found that check and that's how they found and that's how they found him. That's right. Because he's bawling you out in that scene.

He's saying you and your daughter. Yeah, you and your daughter. That was when they split up for six months. That's right. They split up for six months because he was furious at his sister and at the daughter. And then what happened? He went to prison, yeah yeah did he ever did you know but six months later did they get they never got back together again you know in the

movie they made him go back together again but they never got back together the truth is she died right well you stormed out so six months later she died yeah and so he never was able to to make it right to say I love you to say goodbye whatever they had a terrible fight it's a good movie and a good scene and you guys have you guys have great on-screen chemistry but I heard you say that he would throw you sometimes with these improvisations yeah but I loved it uh-. Do you know that the entire scene, that's a clever way to ask that question, the entire scene in the end in the cafe was all improvised. He had called me at 11 o'clock at night the night before and said, you want to come down here? I'm having a late dinner.

And I had my night count on. He said we could run the scene. And I said, is this like marlon brando in the back of the car remember when they did that kazan sure kazan did that thing come down here and i said what's going on babe and he said come on down let's just run lines i'm here and i'm having a steak you want anything i said at? No, we got to be up tomorrow. No, come on down. So I went down.

We tried to rehearse. Guess what? The entire bar was like this, watching Mr. Pacino. So we had to stop. He said, the script is light. It's just light. I said, I know. Because the writer didn't really know.

It wasn't in his soul, in his spirit. He had no idea. They'd been put upon him to write this. But you know what I mean? He'd never read the book. How interesting. He'd never thought about it. So the scene didn't have any power.

It didn't have any juice. It didn't have any kind of real anger, real disappointment, real betrayal. It was a betrayal scene, right? And so 8.30 in the morning. Well, he tried to rehearse it and he couldn't because everybody was like this, you know, watching him. And so in the morning at eight o'clock, we're off camera. He turns to me, said, we're off the script. Right. We're off the text. We're off the script. We're off the text. We're off the script.

OK, I'm trying to remember every little thing. And he says, I said, oh, okay. He said, yeah, we're off. We're off of it. I went, okay. That was like getting on a Persian rug going like this in the sky. Just taking a trip with him. He was taking me for a ride. Yeah.

And I said, okay, fine. Yeah, okay. You know, I wasn't going to get scared. Why would I be scared? I loved him. He's loving. He loves actors. It's maybe the best scene in the whole movie.

It's the best scene. You know what? Mr. Levinson let it run. He didn't know what the hell was going on. The script girl was, nobody knew what we were doing except the two of us. And during that scene, I remember thinking I heard my Aunt Marge. My Aunt Marge saying to me about the only daughter left

that was with the mother who was bedridden. What about me? Nobody thinks about me. And I thought I heard her. And so I did it. That's great. I did it. I did Aunt Marge in the scene. Remember when I go,

what about me? Yes, of course. Nobody cares about me. And then you storm out of the restaurant. It was Aunt Marge who used to make all my dresses for opening night for the theater. She was a bridal designer. She never got married. She was the best lady in the whole world. I loved her so much. How did mom and Aunt Marge like Midnight Cowboy, by the way? Because you were concerned about the nudity as we covered. I think they were proud as get. They were. They were supportive and loving it. My mother was like, what are we going to do? An Italian mother, what are we going to do? On one hand, my daughter's in an X-rated movie. On the other hand, it's Best Picture. best picture that was her line she said i don't know

how i'm gonna feel if i see your tits before your face that was the one that's the line i was chasing before i don't want to have to look at your tits before i get to see your face in the first movie you've ever done you know and i said ma it's gonna be okay don't worry he said well let us hope so you know but they loved it. They were proud as punch. Everybody. I had a healthy family. Thank God. OK, folks, we're going to pause it right there, which is a perfect place to stop.

And we there was so much great material here from Brenda that we decided to make it a two parter, which by now you have figured out. And lots more great stuff next week. you have figured out and lots more great stuff next week. She talks about working with old blue eyes on the first deadly sin and our pal Ron Liebman on Zorro, the gay blade. She weighs in on the famous, the Andrea Martin spoof on SCTV of Brenda's play text commercial, her friendship with the ingenious Peter Cook,

working with Faye Dunaway on Supergirl. Lots more goodies next week. It was great to be back in the Sirius studio with Gilbert. Great to be with Brenda. We loved her. We clicked with her, as you heard. And more wonderful stuff in part two next week with the great, legendary Brenda Vaccaro. Can't hear a word they're saying Only the echoes of my mind

I won't let you leave my love behind I won't let you leave