Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Carol Kane Encore

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

GGACP celebrates the birthday of Emmy-winning actress Carol Kane (b. June 18) with this ENCORE presentation of an interview from 2020. In this episode, Carol talks about the cinema of the 1970s, Oscar acceptance speeches, the generosity of Jack Nicholson, the inventiveness of Andy Kaufman and her admiration for (and friendship with) the legendary Bette Davis. Also, Bill Murray takes a beating, Mike Nichols performs a magic trick, Gilbert kibitzes with Charles Durning and Carol takes a (career-changing) call from Gene Wilder. PLUS: Fritz Feld! Defending “Ishtar”! Saluting Hal Ashby! “Harry and Walter Go to New York”! And Carol Kane fills in for…Carole King? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadri. Our guest this week is a multiple Emmy-winning and Oscar-nominated actress and a favorite performer of both Frank and myself. We've wanted to have her on this show for a long time and it only took being trapped in her apartment to get her. You've seen her work in popular TV shows such as Cheers, Seinfeld, Homicide Life on the Street, Family Guy, Girls, Gotham, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt,

Gotham, unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Taxi for which she was awarded two Emmys for her work as Simka the Blitz. And she can be currently seen as weapons expert Mindy Markowitz in Amazon's new hit series Hunters. She's also given memorable performances on the Broadway and off-Broadway stage in notable films like Carnal Knowledge, The Last Detail, Annie Hall, The Muppet Movie, Dog Day Afternoon, The Princess Bride, Scrooge, Ishtar, and My Blue Heaven, Sleepwalk With Me, and Hester's Dream, for which she was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress. In a professional career that began when she was just 14 years old, she worked with talents like Woody Allen, Mike Nichols, Elaine May, Steve Martin, Andy Kaufman, Bill Murray, Jack Nicholson, Sydney Lameth, and Al Pacino, as well as podcast guests, Steve Buscemi, Ed Bagley Jr., Lee Grant, Richard Donner, Mary Lou Henner, Richard Benjamin,

and Peter Rieger. Please welcome to the podcast one of the most versatile and original performers of the last five decades and a woman who says that job offers stuff after her Oscar nomination until she was rescued by the late great Gene Wilder. The fabulous Carol Kane. Well, sadly, our time is up now. It's a long intro, Carol. Now, Carol, I guess you remember the first time

and maybe only time we worked together. Uh-oh. Oh, yeah. All I remember about it is that the producers had to separate us because I couldn't stop laughing at Gilbert. He just broke me up every second and they had to separate us like being bad at school. Yeah, I think it was Billy and Mandy Save Christmas and we were Mr. and Mrs. Claus.

I see my darling. Christmas and we were Mr. and Mrs. Claus. I see my darling. And you, I would say something, you'd start cracking up and then I'd watch you laugh and then after a while it got to that point where if either one of us looked at each other we would double over. It could not be done. He has that effect on people.

Does that happen to a lot of people, Gilbert? Oh, yeah. And it was funny, because he did treat us like, he said, okay, you wait outside. We're going to do it one at a time. And it was like talking like two bad kids. We were. Yeah. Carol, just so we don't leave the listeners hanging, tell us about what we put in the intro there about you after Hester Street, you got the Oscar nomination and strangely enough, the phone stopped ringing as of what

people would expect, what you would expect would be the opposite reaction. That's right. It was really a solid year where you literally pick up the phone like if you're in love with somebody and they're not in love with you and you're waiting for the phone to ring. And every so often then you have to pick up the phone to see if there's a dial tone, if the phone is working. Yeah. But no, it wasn't ringing but it was working and you know

the character that I was nominated for. Giddle. Giddle. Yeah. He was a Russian Orthodox Jew and only spoke Yiddish for the first two-thirds of the movie and wore a shidle, a horsehair shidle, which is a religious wig to cover a married woman's real hair for modesty. And so there are not a lot of those parts going around. And because, you know, Hollywood did and still does tend to typecast, you know, nobody had anything for me because they thought it had to be sort of that same character or

nothing, you know, so it was nothing. And then Gene called, Gene Wilder called me one day out of the clear blue sky and offered me The World's Greatest Lover, which was a comedy. I had never done a comedy at all. I had no idea what made him think that I could do it, but he did. He had faith in me and Mel produced it. And anyway, I think the movie is really good, although it didn't get a lot of, it didn't get a lot of advertising because of certain things about when it came out. I watched it yesterday.

It holds up surprisingly well. I hadn't seen it since the 70s. Do you remember Gilbert, the world's greatest lover? Oh, yes. And also I was gonna say, now, Carol, you came along, oh, I got well known, during that strange and great time on film in the 70s. Yes. I was lucky, you know what. Of course, and so you've worked with Al Pacino, I think, twice now.

Well, there again, you'd be wrong, Gilbert. Well, OK. It won't be the first time in this interview. Because the thing is, yes, in movies, I did do Dog Day Afternoon with him. I did do Dog Day Afternoon with him, and then, you know, lo these many 40-something years later, we did Hunters together, the TV series. But when we first knew each other, we also did several plays together at the Public Theater

and in Boston, and yeah, so we did the Resistable Rise of Arturo Uy at the Public and in Boston with the great John Casali in both productions. Oh yeah, great John Casali. Did you see Pacino originally in a show called, do I have this right, does a tiger wear a necktie? Yes I did, I did, did? No, but I saw it in the notes and I found it interesting that you said you knew he had something right away. You knew he had a certain kind of star quality. Oh, God, yes. From the second he walked on the stage,

he was the only, I mean, I shouldn't say this because it's not, no, I'm not gonna say it, but he just was absolutely mesmerizing whether he was talking or not talking or sitting or moving or he was mesmerized that it factor he had it he had it in spades and he still does and what was he the light away he um last week was his 80th birthday. Yes. And didn't Pacino, uh, excuse me, didn't Nicholson just turn 80? I believe I think he did. I believe Jack is, or maybe you're right.

Yeah. 80 or 85. He just had a birthday. No, I think he's 80. Well, I don't know, but yes, I do know that he just had a birthday a little before Al's. Yeah. And you were in a movie that we discussed a few times on this show,

The Last Detail. Yeah. Jack Nicholson. Yeah, it's Encarnal Knowledge with Jack Nicholson. But yes. And Randy Quaid. Randy Quaid, he was directed by, again, the late, great Hal Ashby. Tell us something about Ashby.

I don't think we've had too many people, Gil, who've been on this show who've worked with Hal Ashby. No. Have we had anybody? Think so. I don't think so either. Well, I had been doing a lot of work in Toronto, even though I'm not Canadian,

but I did a movie there called Wedding in White with Donald Pleasance. And then I came back to do the PR for that movie and was aware of the fact that Hal was there scouting for the last detail. And when the publicity ended, then they wouldn't put me up at the hotel anymore, but I had a friend, Graham Beckel,

who was doing paper chase, John Hausman, and anyway, he let me sleep on his couch, and I wrote a letter to Hal at the fancy hotel he was staying at, and then I just kept my fingers crossed for two, three days. And then I got a call to come meet him at his hotel, which I did. And he gave me this part. He didn't make me audition for anything. And now, no, he was just such a unique, fantastic personality. And he had this thing about him which was sometimes problematical, but also just so exciting when you're working with him that if something happened that was funny, Howe

just bust out laughing, even during the takes. So sometimes you have to do it again. You know, Rob does that sometimes too, Rob Reiner. But it's very unique for a person to get so carried away and be so free with their feelings as to just let them fly even though they're shooting, you know. And he was just a gorgeous, gorgeous artist and gorgeous gentleman. I know you're a film buff too, Carol, as we are. Look at that run of films for Ashby in the 70s. I mean, The Landlord and The Last Detail and Shampoo. Harold and Maude.

And Harold and Maude with your friend, Bud Court. Yeah. Oh, and we did have someone who worked with Hal Ashby. That would be Lee Grant in Shampoo. Sure. Oh, okay. Which I just, and also in, oh no, I guess Hal was the editor on The Landlord.

He directed The Landlord. Oh, right, with Paul Bridges. Paul Bridges. He was in that too. She was so great at both. That's right, that's right. She was. Great run of films. Gilbert, that's one of your favorites, the last detail. Yeah.

Talked about it on the show before, a lot. Yeah. It's from the 70s. And the 70s was that time where they said that the inmates had taken over the asylum. Yeah, well, thank the Lord, right? Yeah. Should we read that book, Easy Riders Raging Bulls, Carol? Yes. Yeah.

And it was like- They're very much out of that period. Yeah. They made the kind of movies that wouldn't even be filmed nowadays. Yeah, what do you mean by that, Gilbert? Well, it seems like... I agree, but I'm not sure why.

It seems like they were like a film, like the last detail. They go, what, we're just following these three guys around? You know, who's going to see that? No, that's right. There's no, what do you call it? There's no fabulous sets or, yeah, there's that production value is only that it be true, that it look true, sound true and be true. That was the production value.

Well, it's a character study. Movies like Panic! and Needle Park and Serpico and a lot of these films that were being made at that time all fall into that category. There's no explosions, there's no big set pieces, there's no car chases. And sometimes there's no, a lot of times there's no big ending. It just kind of ends. It just stops. Panic!

I saw that recently again and it just kind of stops. Yeah stops. Panic. I saw that recently again, and it just kind of stopped. Yeah. And then watch it this weekend. They're just going to keep going. You don't know where, but it stops. And for me, though, yeah, I just watched it, too. And what I would just about killed me was the scene with the dog on the ferry. Do you remember that? Oh, yes, yes. He kicks the dog out because they wanted to

shoot up and the little doggy puppy that they just got, it falls off the side of the ferry, the Staten Island ferry. Oh my god, that kitty win boy. You know, you're 19 years old and you're working with Hal Ashby, Nicholson and Robert Towne. It doesn't get much better. In a way, you're almost, if I'm correct in saying this, Carol, you're too young even to grasp the enormity of this and who these people are. Of course, they were still building their resumes and their legacies. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I,

I think I knew how lucky I was. You did, great. I was aware of their other work and I had been acting professionally since I was 14. So that was, you know, about five years later. Although last, carnal knowledge was before that. I think I was 17 or 18. Um, Jules Feiffer, you know.

But anyway, uh, I think that I, I was a tremendous perfectionist, uh, to a fault, maybe, as was my idol, Betty Davis. And when I saw the work of these directors and these writers, you know, I read, I read and watched. I knew that it was rarefied air. I knew that I was speaking with brilliant, brilliant people. You were in a play where you played Betty Davis. I was, that's right. Can I put you on the spot

and hear you speak as Betty Davis? Oh God, I don't think you can, maybe later. Ha ha ha ha ha. Because if I do it, well I'll just feel so horrible, so. Ha ha ha ha ha. I said I'm a perfectionist. Oh, okay. But you got to know her Carol as you were telling us before we turned the

mics on. Yeah I was madly lucky but not only lucky because at a certain point I lived in LA I was doing taxi and I had to get a new place to live. And I saw two gorgeous apartments and very old Eastern looking buildings, red brick, so that they didn't feel shockingly like you were in LA. And the thing that tipped the scales on which apartment was that one of them was the building that Betty Davis lived in.

And then how I met Betty Davis, should I go into that? Yes. Oh, okay. Because it's sort of a miracle how I met her. Yeah, please do. I was moving in, but then like in four days or something, I moved in. I had to go to Sydney, Australia to make a movie. And I, you know, was still pretty young.

And anyway, so I moved in and the next day I went down to the basement and to the laundry room. It wasn't the basement, but it was the first floor of the laundry room. And I was doing my laundry and in comes a beautiful dark-haired young woman and her name was Catherine and we got to talking and it turned out it was Catherine Cermak, who I still know, who was Betty Davison's assistant. And I told her, oh, I was going to Sydney and I didn't know anything about where to stay or what to do or any this and that and on and on. Then we go, we finish our laundry.

We dried it and everything. And then we went upstairs and Catherine, I think she peeked into my door and she saw that I had an old Betty Davis, what were they called? One sheets? Yeah, and it was framed in my apartment even though I'd only been there one day. So then we say a pleasant goodbye, and then a little while later something has slipped under my door, an envelope, a nice sturdy monogrammed envelope. And I open it up and it says, have been to Australia, maybe I can help,

come for drinks at six, Betty Davis. Wow. Can you believe it? I mean, I can't even, it was, it was the most stunning thing that had ever happened to me,

I think it was just, I mean, and I was terrified, of course, you know, and, it was just, I mean, and I was terrified of course, you know, and, but I did, you know, I kind of tried to dial up and get over there. It was literally right next door to my apartment was her. How about that? And I went over there and she answered the door

in a baseball cap, but nice clean baseball cap, no team on it. A baseball cap, a starch kind of peach colored shirt and a cat keys. And she looked impeccable, but it was a whole different look, you know, for Betty Davis. And then we sat and we had drinks and we talked and Katherine was there. She told me where to stay, and that is where I stayed for three months. And it was wonderful.

Wow. Yeah. And then can I tell you one more Betty Davis story? Sure. Cause I love this story. It sort of makes me cry because it's about my dad and my dad is gone now. But he came to visit me in LA and he came with his wife and we cleaned and I said, I'm going to invite Betty over for a cocktail if she'll come. And we clean and clean and cleaned.

And he told me the best, most expensive scotch to get for her and all this stuff. And I'd always seen her basically in her at-home look. So doorbell rings. Let's say 6 o'clock again. Doorbell rings. I open the door and there at the door for my father is Betty Davis.

Fabulous hairdo, perfect makeup, a nice tight suit with the belt at the waist, high heels, Betty Davis. And she did that for my dad, you know. How nice. Was that the, I mean, it kills me to think of that, how kind that was. You know, they always say, don't meet your heroes, Carol,

cause you'll be disappointed, but you had, you obviously had the opposite experience. I had the total opposite experience. How lucky. Did Betty Davis, did Betty Davis ever give you any career acting or life advice? But we talked about all kinds of things, but well, I told you she told me where to stay in Sydney We talked about all kinds of things but

It wasn't really career advice we talked about everything but But it wasn't really career advice. We've talked about everything, but not really career advice because she gave me my career advice, which wasn't career advice, it was artistic advice. She gave all that to me in the movies I've been watching since I was a little kid.

Do you still turn those movies on TCM like we do? Oh, of course. If you stop on Now Voyager or All About Eve, you can't change the channel. No, you must not. You just get drawn right into it. What's that? It's illegal to change it.

Yeah, it is. Here's another larger than life actress you worked with, if I have my notes correct, Shelley Winters? Yeah. We did the effective gamma rays in Man and the Mirror Golds on Broadway. And yeah, she was wild and fabulous. You worked with so many greats.

You worked. So lucky. You worked for Backstage Magazine. Yes, I did. And I had already done, I guess I had already done the last detail. I believe I had already done the last detail on Cardinal Knowledge. careers like working in a health food store, a candy store. And then at one point I worked stamping envelopes at Backstage Magazine. I love that. It's interesting about a young actor.

You've sort of made it. You're in motion pictures working with Jack Nicholson and Mike Nichols. Yeah. But you're still going back to a day job. Well, yeah, you know, I mean, it's notoriously true that many already semi-well-known actors or actresses end up serving you your meal, you know.

And it's funny, like people who would see you on the big screen were probably going, oh, she's in a movie. She must be a billionaire. Maybe, but they'd be wrong. I find it interesting that you both started so young. They'd still be wrong, by the way. What's that? They'd still be wrong. They'd still be wrong. You both started in show business so young. Gilbert, we've talked a lot

about how you started at 15 and got on the stage for the first time. Did you know that about him, Carol? We did not. A teenager like you. A teenager. And you were 14. What was it, Gilbert?

I became interested in show biz, and I started doing imitations all the time. And then my sister Arlene found out about, from some friend of hers, they said there's some club in Manhattan that you write your name down in the book, when they get to your name, they introduce you. And I should know the name of the club but I don't remember it.

But I remember going with my two sisters up from Brooklyn to Manhattan and that was the first time on stage. So we have your sisters still going. Yes. But you know you are so great because the thing is that's not I mean, that that's just you and nothing else up there. You don't have a script. He I mean, I mean, you haven't got a storyline that someone else has stamped on you. It's it's all you, right? Yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, you can't blame it on the script or something. It's this, there's an old joke,

uh, guys on stage, uh, doing Hamlet and the audience is booing and the actor says, Hey, I didn't write this shit. There you go. They had someone to blame. Hey, Gil, this is a side thing, but since we were talking about Gene Wilder and the world's greatest lover, and another piece of trivia, Carol, that's interesting. You were in two movies about Valentino in the same year. You were in Valentino.

Were they in the same year? Wow. Yeah, Ken Russell's Valentino, and then you were in a parody about Valentino. Were they in the same year? Wow. Yeah, Ken Russell's Valentino, and then you were in a parody about Valentino. Yeah. In the same year. And Gilbert Carroll got to act in scenes in that movie with Fritz Feld. Oh, my God!

I love Fritz Feld. I love him. And then also, in Ken Russell's movie, I got to dance with rudolph nuryev nuryev amazing fritz bell like cornered the market on being like the maitre d or the hotel manager yeah and this one he's a hotel manager That's who he was. He was the hotel manager. Yep. Right. And he gives you the trademark mouth pop that he was famous for.

Gilbert talks about Fritz Feld in his documentary. Yes. And the audience is scratching their heads. Can somebody send me that? Is it possible to see it? Oh, sure. Oh, Dara's nodding. She'll get you one. Dara's nodding. She'll get you one. Dara's nodding. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast, but first a word from our sponsor. No Frills delivers.

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visit connexontario.ca, T's and Z's apply. I find this fascinating too, Carol, going through the research, all the famous names, but also the influential artists that you work with. You work with John Castavetes. I mean, another larger than life character. Staggering. And oh, God, he was just so fantastic in every way.

And Jenna, Roland's his wife and his three kids. And yeah, I worked with him on two plays, two different plays. And they were both so exciting. One, John wrote, called A Woman of Mystery, and it was for Jenna, and I played Jenna's daughter, and Jenna was a homeless person and didn't necessarily accept that I was her daughter. And so John wrote and directed that. And then we did a play called Thornhill that his friend Meade Roberts wrote and that was with Benghazara and Patty Lapone and just a great... Ben Gazara, Gil. Yeah.

Another favorite of Gilbert's. Oh, Ben Gazara. Yeah, another favorite of mine. Another favorite of his. Yeah, St. Jack was on the other day. That's a good one, Bogdanovich. He, you know, except Benny, he was too much, right? You knew all these people.

It's amazing that you worked with, you know, and also so early in your career Yeah, when you're still in your 20s, you're working with John Cassavetes and Sydney I don't think I was in my I wasn't in my 20s when I worked with John. I was okay. Oh I forgot totally forgot the most incredible thing Well, they were all incredible that I got to do with John

was that he and Elaine May had written a play slash movie. I say slash because between the two of them, nobody could decide if it should be a movie or a play. But we worked on it for months and months. And Elaine and I played really bad hookers, failing hookers. In that, we were so opinionated about who our Johns should be that we never had any work because we never would, we just had too many opinions about them. And it's funny.

And John was in it and it was so great. And Peter Falk was going to direct it and then he couldn't. And anyway, it's just a wild experience and a great, great, great experience. And and you once injured Bill Murray. Who said that to you? I saw it in that during Scrooge, you had a pull on his lip. Yes. But but again, it was Shakespeare who made me do it.

It wasn't me. It wasn't me. Nice. I did, you know, and oh, you know, oh, and I worship him and I love, he's so great. But I did, I think in the course of having to kick him in the groin from a flying position and splatter him with my wings, with my back to him in the kitchen where I really couldn't see exactly where my wings were landing.

I didn't have a rear view mirror or anything. And then the whole thing with the lip anyway. I did hear rumors from Bill himself. I think perhaps I had caused him some harm, which I certainly had not intended to do. I'm not one of those actors that likes to get physical even if it's gonna you know but I don't know I guess these were real stunt things and some of them I could do and some of them I guess I couldn't for instance Lucky Bill I did not I did not actually hit him with the toaster. Right. That did not make contact, I swear. The story's floating around on the web that Gilbert's referring to, Carol,

is that you had to pull his lip down at a certain point and maybe you yanked a little too aggressively when he was injured. Is that on the web? Yeah, it's everywhere. They say he had to take a few days off no that's Gilbert annotating we'll check with Richard Donner Gilbert you auditioned for that movie yes yes I love you what's his name? To Bobcat. Buster Poindex. Oh no, David Johansson.

Oh David, you were gonna be one of the ghosts of Christmas. Yeah, I think I was auditioning as the cab driver. Yeah, that was the Buster, yeah. But David, I mean, yeah. And listen, but where does this thing on the web come from? Is it Dick Donner or Bill? I don't know, it's floating around. Various interviews or, you know, you find these articles,

like 10 things you didn't know about the movie Scrooge. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm not going to lie. Are you saying, are you implying that if the world ever goes back to work, I will never go back to work again. Yes, you've been blackballed for injuring Bill Murray in 1985.

OK, one of Gilbert's favorites, we have to work into the show, and that is the late, great Sidney Lumet. Yes. Yes. That you worked with. Yeah. Sidney, who is it? Okay, well, so, I mean, I guess

this is probably floating around on the web. And... You know, the thing with Sidney is that he was also from the theater. And so on Dog Day Afternoon, we did something that I

have never experienced before or after in making a movie in that Sydney rented a hall above the Second Avenue Deli. There was kind of a big hall there, they had events and stuff there, but very old fashioned with the wood panels. And they taped off that hall, the state, the AD taped off that hall like you do when you're rehearsing a play. They tape off the stage

or the rehearsal hall floor to indicate where the bed is and where the door is. And there's nothing there, but it's taped to give you an idea of the space you're working in. So they did that. And we rehearsed that movie so that we could run it top to bottom like a play. In a couple hours, we would run from the beginning of the show till the end of the show, i.e. movie.

And this was so helpful because when you get to location, you know, you can never shoot in order. And we were that little body of people cramped into that bank, you know, over days. And we had to really understand what the passage of time with no air and with the crowds and the FBI out there. And we had to really all know together of one mind what was happening to us.

And because he did rehearse it that way, we knew, you know, except Gilbert, I have to tell you something, and I hope you won't feel I was cheating on you. But the other laughing episode that nearly killed me in my life was on dog day afternoon because somehow whenever Al locked the cashiers and everybody into the vault, we started. Uncontrollable. Uncontrollable. And there were like six of us and it was uncontrollable. And Al is trying to do like a great job as a brilliant actor, a bank robber, a complicated person. And then we just all are like. And then finally Penny Allen who played the head teller,

she was so great, she's led into us, thank God. And she said, you know, Al is trying to work here, he's trying to do his job and that shut us up. And she said, you know, Al is trying to work here. He's trying to do his job. And that's shut us up. And it worked. But for days, every time we got in the vault, we couldn't stop. What a movie.

You worked also in that movie, aside from Pacino was an actor who, I think he did only five movies. John, because of Al. Yes. And each one was a great movie. actor who I think he did only five movies. John Cazali. Yes, and each one was a great movie. I saw you in that documentary about his life, Carol. Yeah. John Cazali.

He's my friend. Real heartbreaker that lost him so young. And I would have to say, and I would have to say because it's true that he was a true genius, you know. And in a short career, Godfather, Godfather 2, Dog Day Afternoon, The Conversation, and The Deer Hunter. Great body of work. Incredible.

Charles Durning too, we have to ask you about. Oh, yeah. Because he's in there and you did, I think, four or five films with him. I think I did five movies with Charlie. Yeah The movie I did with Mark Rydell directing called Harry and Walter go to New York Did not have a success, but it had in it Diane Keaton Charlie Jimmy Khan Elliott Gould anyway

Michael Caine Michael Caine. Oh, I love that movie people. They I'll tell I'll tell our listeners to find that movie. It's on Harry and Walter go to New York. Yes. So that was the first time I think I worked with Charlie and then dog day and then we did two Stranger callss movies together. And the Muppet movie. And the Muppet movie. And I think there was actually another one which I'm blanking on,

but if it comes back to me, I'll let you know. What was he like? I mean, you know, we love these character actors, Carol. We gush on this show about people like Charles Sturning, right, like Jack Ward and Gilbert. Or Martin Balsam. Martin Balsam. These great, solid American character actors. We just love them. They just show up on the set and they're always great.

Always great. And he, Charlie, was what you call a mensch. Oh, and we did a play reading together not that long before he passed away. When we did a play reading together, not that long before he passed away, he was a mensch, he was, you may have heard or even seen, a beautiful, beautiful ballroom dancer and soft shoe dancer. He was so great. We heard that.

He was, he had an amazing life. He was a World War II hero and a ballroom dancer. He played the piano too. Yes, and a prize fighter. Yeah. And great in drama, in a part like Dog Day Afternoon, or you could put him in a broad comedy like the Muppet movie, or you could put him

or a relationship comedy like Tootsie. And he was just great every time. Oh, I think he's so beautiful in Tootsie, he was just great every time. So good one Tootsie Omar. So heartbreaking. And also I'll tell you you asked about Betty Davis's career advice. Well I'll tell you Charlie Greening's career advice because he gave me some explicit advice and what it was is I was very young when we were doing When a Stranger Calls, and I had had an abrupt success at a very young age working with the best of the best of them. And then I didn't know what to do as to how to pick a role or say yes or no to a job.

And if only I had known then what I know now. But anyway, I would torture myself. And I made some huge mistakes, by the way, overthinking and overthinking, you know. Just couldn't do it, I couldn't decide. So I said to Charlie one agonizing day on the set. I said, Charlie, you know, I just can't, I don't know how to decide.

How do you decide? You know, what's the next job you should say yes to? And here's what Charlie said. He said, I say yes to the first person that asks me. And that. And here I am literally sick. I mean, throwing up anxious sick, trying to make decisions. I say yes to the first person that...

You know a fun performance of his that people don't know about is to see him singing and dancing in the best little whore house in Texas. He could do it all. And he also was so brilliant on Broadway and the gin game and he just could do any. Gilbert, did you ever meet Charles Sturning? Did you ever come up across him? I remember one time at the Comedy Awards, I did a bit about how they got Ned Beatty. Did he know about the rape scene in Deliverance before he accepted the job? And I said that they at least, one of the lines was, did they at least ask Charles Sturning. There it is. But Gilbert, can I ask you a question, Gilbert?

Or am I interrupting? I'm interrupting. Oh, I just want to and just hold. It turns out Charles Sturning was in the audience and I went over to him and he said, I would have taken a part. I can squeal. Yeah. Oh my God, I can't believe, I almost cut the punchline. Fantastic.

That's fantastic. So what were you gonna say, Carol? Well, I was just curious, cause you said when you were so young and you started at a comedy club and it was where you put your name on the list and they call you up and I just was wondering if you ever ran into or worked out of the same stage as Andy Kaufman. I remember seeing him at the clubs and he'd go on and I remember laughing when

he went on stage and he starts singing a hundred bottles of beer on the wall. And at first the audience laughs because they think, well, he's not gonna sing the whole song. And then he proceeds to sing the entire song. Yes, I went to some college performance of his. I think it was at a college in a big, big old theater like some of the big old colleges have. And he was reading from...

He used to read The Great Gatsby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was The Great Gatsby or it was War and Peace or something. and he picked up the book and he began to read and then he read that whole M.Effer book. And people in the audience, just little by little, they emptied out, the audience emptied out because they had not signed up for thinking that this comedian is going to read a piece of important literature for like six hours, you know, that's what he did.

And well, you, I guess you met him or at least worked with him on taxi. Had you seen him in the clubs first, Carol, or or or after you got to know him on taxi, you went to check out the act. I think that I had not seen him. I think that I once I got the part, then I investigated who he was. Did Jim Brooks seeing you in in Hester Street somehow lead to you playing Simca? I always wondered that.

I imagine it might have had something to do with it. Speaking the foreign language. Of course. I imagine it did, but I don't really remember him saying that, but I think it did because I didn't have to audition. And those were the days when movie actors did not do television. We all looked down our noses at television. And I was the same little stupid idiot that I was

because such great writing, right? But then I watched an episode of a taxi that Jack Guilford was in, and I thought, well, all right, if Jack Guilford will say yes, then I watched an episode of Taxi that Jack Gilford was in, and I thought, well, all right, if Jack Gilford will say yes, then I'll say yes. And I did it with much disdain, but then came to understand that that was some of the most brilliant writing you can find anywhere. How about those writers? Ed Weinberger was here with us, by the way. You want this? On the podcast. What was that?

Oh, what did we have him Gilbert about two years ago? I guess so. I lose track. And you thank the right, I think in one of your Emmy speeches, if not both of them, you could you thank James Brooks at Weinberger, Stan Daniels, Ken Esten. You gave them their due because you were always so appreciative of that writing.

Oh, I, you know, it was everything. I mean, Jimmy Burroughs was brilliant, brilliant director, as were several of the other people that came on later in the game. But without the writing, you know, you're just a blithering idiot out there, like flapping your lips or something because that's everything.

It's everything that you have to stand on is the writing. Julia Jim Burroughs here too. Oh, how great. And you remember Gil? Yes, and did you witness any of Andy Kaufman's like hijinks, like causing trouble on the set. Well, I'd have to say a complete yes and a complete no to that.

And this is why. Andy had created Foreign Man, who later became Latke. He had created him way before, and Foreign Man was a character that he performed in nightclubs and probably, I don't know, everywhere for a long time before Foreign Man was hired to be on taxi and turned into a lockup. So Andy told them right up front that he had certain very strict stipulations for saying yes. And one of them was that he would only do, I think, one more than half the shows or maybe

just half the shows. And the other, and unbelievably important to Andy, was that he would only have to come in Monday for the table read, Friday morning for the finalizing the blocking, and run through before we perform the show Friday night. So that leaves three whole days of a five-day week that Andy was nowhere to be seen. And you could call that high jinx

because it was certainly very, very difficult for me because I come from this stage, so it's the opposite for me. I like to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. And Andy felt that knowing himself very well as an artist, if he would rehearse too much, he would lessen the first time that Andy and I had a really big episode together, and he still kept to his contract and wouldn't come in, and Tony Danza, he walks in on Friday, and Tony Danza was so angry on my behalf, which nobody had a right to be, really, but he was so protective

of me. He got so angry that when Andy walked onto the stage in the bleachers, he turned the fire hose on for real. I mean, a real powerful fire hose right at Andy, who was so shocked. And I think I ventured to say, pretty hurt, you know? And both sides were right. You know, that's why I say yes and no. You know, he considered hijinks that he wouldn't show up, but it was also in his contract. And of course, everybody knows the story of when Andy was hired to play Vic

and he came on the lot with two actual hookers and was smoking and drinking up a storm and Andy was Macrobiotic and Anyway, then he he got himself fired You know watching those episodes Carol watching scenes keys from a marriage With you with the line that you of course you've found out feel me like a grape so I can get out of here But they're just the chemistry between you guys. Yeah Particularly and particularly you and Judd in that scene.

Mary Lou sends her love, by the way. I happened to speak with her yesterday. I told her she- I send it right back. I will tell her, I told her you were coming on with us. And that reminds me, I was just talking again with Jeffrey Tambor, and he sends his love. Oh my goodness, yeah.

As does Peter Rieger, who emailed me this morning. Oh my God. It's a love fest. Oh, and something Frank and I were watching and it cracked us both up and was amazing. You were on the Letterman show. Yeah. Oh, this is her singing backup.

This was, did I replace Carole King? You did. Yes. And like, Will Smith was in it. Dion. Dion, yeah. And there was I, knowing nothing. But, you know, I had just done a movie with Paul Schaeffer called The Lemon Sisters, and

there was a lot of music in the movie. And Paul and his band taught us all the music. And Paul was the musical director. So, and I, at that time, used to do Letterman. I was so lucky to do it, you know, not infrequently. And then I think Paul came up with the idea that when Car Carol King dropped out I should stand in for her. That was a great joke. An amazing group of people. Again so lucky you

know I don't know how I get so lucky. Here's a question that I have for you Carol. We told you we have a couple of questions from listeners who do this thing called Grill the Guest. Now here's a memory for you. Mark Harriman says, does Carol remember being in a cult classic called Pandemonium? Oh, of course I do. With the great Phil Hartman, Pee-wee Herman, Paul Rubens, Tommy Slyther's. The wonderful Eileen Brennan.

Yeah, Eileen. And Tommy Slyther's. Eileen Brennan, Tommy Slyther's. And Squeaky, David L. Lander. David. What a cat. And Tab. And Judge Reinholtz. And Taub Hunter. Right, who we would love to have had on this show, huh Gil? Oh my, so many of those names that we go, oh God, why didn't we have him on? Well, we keep trying.

We finally got Carol. Yes. So nice of you. Well, you know, I didn't mean not to do it before. It's just, you know, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm got Carol. Yes. So nice of you. Well, you know, I didn't mean not to do it before. It's just that I had a little and it doesn't happen a lot in my career. I had a little busy streak thanks to I did, you know, and it was all thanks to Tina Fey. And then from that somehow hunters came along even though it was

completely the opposite type of work. It's a drama as you know. I auditioned for that but I didn't audition for Tina. But anyway so those two things kind of backed up to each other and it was during the course of that that I I think you had asked me but I literally couldn't do it at that point but now that we are all unemployed you know Carol I loved your auditioning story I heard you tell this story on another show about how disturbed you were by the experience of auditioning for Wic.

Was it Wic? No, Wic. I got Wic. Not Wic. It was something you were auditioning for. You didn't get it. Pippin, excuse me. It was Pippin and then it was one of those great stories for actors of how a door closed, but other doors suddenly flew open.

Well, they didn't fly open, actually. Oh, no. I had been doing Wicked. I mean, if you want to hear the real story? Yeah, it was touching. Okay, so I had been doing Wicked already for, like, close to four and a half years, and it was in my last nine months of Wicked, which was the 10th anniversary, that they started to put

together the new version of Pippin. And I, you know, came over like between a matinee and an evening and I had been told that all I had to do was prove that I wouldn't be frightened to do the trapeze work. And it was a miscommunication, but anyway. So I went in, I did the trapeze, and I actually really loved it. And then I went away, and then I was told that I had to sing and do scenes and do all that.

And meanwhile, I had to prepare while I was doing the other show. And anyway, it took me too long. And the genius, Andrea Martin got the part as well as she should have because she was just spectacular. Right. So, um, anyway, then, um, I was auditioning on and off. They kept saying, your audition's in two months, it's in three months, it's in six months. Anyway, it just got to be, it went on for a long time, which wore on my nerves because

each time, of course, I got more and more insecure, you know, that after all this time I wouldn't deliver and I kept working with a singing coach and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, when I finally got to audition, I thought it went okay. And I think that was a twofold thing. I think it was because the wonderful Steve Freeman, who was teaching me how to sing, made me feel so proud of my singing that I actually thought it was all right, which apparently it was not,

and also because they stood up and applauded at my audition. So you would think it went well? Oh, yeah. Anyone would. So I thought it had gone quite well. at my audition and... So you would think it went well? Well... Anyone would. Anyone would. So I thought it had gone quite well. I went home and I got that call that we as actors have gotten so many times in our lives

and when you've been doing it for 52 years or something, this This call gets work to me worse, which is you know, they went another way or They just didn't feel that you were exactly right for they whatever you they say It's a version of yeah, you fucked up and you didn't get it. I don't know. Are we allowed to swear on the? Yes. No, I wouldn't be swearing so much more if I had known that. I'm not like a sailor, but I was trying to be judiciously. We encourage you to swear, Carol. All right, well anyway, that's what it really means is that you weren't good enough.

That's what it means in your being. And I just felt like, okay, I can't do this anymore. I cannot afford to audition anymore because I was literally, and you're gonna think I'm out of my mind, but I was just crawling around my apartment sobbing. And I thought, it's too late for this in my life, you know and So I vowed that I would never audition again not because I thought that I was too good to audition

but because I didn't think I could survive it and Then I right away got two jobs That I didn't audition for. And one was Gotham, the other was Kimmy. But I think it was a good solid year between Wicked and those other jobs. Okay, so they didn't fly open, but they did open eventually. They creaked open.

And I dove in. Are you someone, when you watch yourself, if you do watch yourself, are you sitting there going, oh God, why did I do it that way? Of course. I want to set the record straight about something before we start again. You can all just go fuck yourselves if you think I'm gonna say fuck again. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm sorry, my show. Yeah, it was such a nice contrast between the sweetness of the dog.

Gilbert, you were asking me about when I see things, do I, am I horrified? Why didn't I do something else? Yeah, and even recently I screened a movie that I'm in that I did right before the shutdown and you know I see a scene and I think I know exactly the right choice now I know I know that this is a horrible choice I know the right choice this is six months later you know but yeah. You must be a perfectionist Carol.

Yeah I am a perfectionist but I've calmed down since I was young because I realized that sometimes when you're a real true perfectionist, it comes out of other people's hides. It's hard on other people. And the older I get, the more I realize that it is the experience, the day-to-day experience when you're collaborating with people. It's just the day-to-day experience that matters because

no one, you can't control the outcome of anything, but you can control how you treat other people. Gilbert doesn't like auditioning either. So I think you're both in the same. I got better at it years later. You did? But yeah, I got better years later. I remember the first couple of years of auditions, I would go like, what am I in this business for?

I have no talent. I know, it's torture. I think it's torture. And also, not only is it torture, but it is truly not representative of your work. It's an audition, and that's a whole other animal than, you know, working to understand something and deepening it, and it's a whole other animal.

And I heard I've always heard this, these actors who are great at auditioning and I'll get the part. But then they their part, their acting won't improve any more than the audition. Yeah, I've heard that.. It's interesting too though, Carol, at a point where you said that's it, you kind of made a life decision, I'm not going to do this anymore, I'm not going to subject myself to this anymore. But then I did. Oh, but also then two parts showed up that you didn't have to audition for. There's something about that. Yeah, and that took me for another four and a half years.

And then sadly when Kimi was cancelled, well, we were so sad when it was cancelled, but then I read this gorgeous material called Hunters, and I was told that everyone had to audition and I was crying. My manager called me and told me I had to audition. I was crying but I decided it was worth it and I actually got it which I don't know how that happened but it did. Gilbert's hooked on that show Gilbert and Dara. And the children. And Max. Yes, yes. And both our kids, who are 10 and 12, are fans of yours. That is so sweet.

How nice. Gilbert, my cats are fans of yours. They're about the only fans I have. We love Saul Rubenek too. Another great character actor who you plug into anything. And that show has a lot of great, also Dylan Baker. Oh, another one. Is he frightening in that? Oh my God. Scariest villain.

Dylan Baker played arguably the bravest role in the history of motion pictures in that movie, Happiness. Yes. You know, that's a type of thing you have to think, seriously, will I work again if I do this? Because it's so despicable. And it's the funny part about it,

the performance he gives, it's like he's somehow sympathetic at the same time. He's a child molester and yet there's a humanity. Dylan Baker. Oh, such range. I have to ask you about some of these other wonderful directors, Carol, that we didn't mention. Milos Forman, Mark Rydell, Gus Van Sant,

Rob Reiner, Ken Russell, the great Herbert Ross. My boo heaven. And Ishtar. A movie that Gilber... What? And Ishtar. A movie that Gilbert and I like. I like it, too.

And Paul Williams has been here, and we are big Elaine May fans, and I want to defend Ishtar again. I think it's wonderful. I don't know why they, I don't know. Maybe it was that thing about like Heaven's Gate where they think you've spent so much money that I don't know.

I think the press was out to get, I don't think it was personally against Elaine. I think the press was out to get Beat don't think it was personally against Elaine. I think the press was out to get Beatty and Hoffman for some reason at that time. That seems who they were grinding the accent against. So good. It's got so much going for it. Hoffman is one of two actors you've worked with. It gets the reputation, him and Pacino get the reputation of being difficult. So I want to know if you experienced any of that. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And you know, I just worked with Al and Al as I am,

is creeping up in age. And if he ever had a right to be difficult now it'd be not at all. He's an ensemble player. I was thinking the other day as we're not seeing Jack Nicholson on the screen anymore and so many of these actors have started to, Gene Hackman is another one who stepped aside, that somebody like Pacino is still out there, grinding and doing these great performances one after the other. And I was turning to my wife and I said, we have to be grateful for this guy.

Oh yes. De Niro too. I was gonna say and Robert, you know, and by the way, that's my bucket list is to get to work with Robert and Marty. I'm showing it out there. Gilbert, you have it over Carol because you got to work with De Niro.

Yeah. What did you do? What was it? Did you have proms? She hates you. No, nobody saw the film. What was it? It does still counts. I don't think the cameraman saw the film. What is it? It does still counts.

I don't think the cameraman saw the film. It was Robert De Niro. He was in a movie called The Comedian. Oh, I saw The Comedian. I really liked it. And Danny was in it and Lucy DeVito was in it. Yeah, I liked it. And I was in it as Gilbert Gottfried.

Right, I'm sorry, Gilbert. You stole the show. My most difficult role. Yes, you did get to work with him. Well, Scorsese says we've got... Put a good word in for me, Gilbert. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha He's favorite comedian, Martin Scorsese's favorite comedian, and quick, name any film, any Scorsese film I've been in. Weren't you in Cluedun? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha This is a nice actor story too. How about living the rest of your life knowing that you are Martin Scorsese's favorite comedian? That, I think you might as well just hang up the headsets.

I'd rather be in this film and have him think I suck. All right. Gilbert, he's still cranking them out. You get your chance. Carol, this is a sweet story, one actor to another. When you didn't, you were nominated for Hester Street, which we talked about in the intro. But you didn't win, I believe, Louise Fletcher won for Cuckoo's Nest as Nurse Ratchet. But you got a phone call from somebody, a nice phone call and a lunch

invitation. And that's a nice story. And it's an aside of the man that I don't think we hear a lot of. Well, okay, the man we're talking about is Jack Nicholson. And I have many stories equally equally kind about Jack. But the story you're talking about is, I was 23 when I got nominated, and Jack had been nominated and won or lost, you know, over the years. And he knew what that whole process, awards season, what that whole thing feels like.

I had no clue. I mean, I was shocked that I got nominated. It was a beautiful movie, but it cost $375,000, you know, black and white and everything. So I did go out there and I stayed at the Beverly Hills Hotel and did press. And you, I mean, you are like a queen when you're, people can't do enough for you. You have to get a second room just to put your flowers in. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but you know, the phone never stops ringing, never. So then comes the day or the night that is of the awards

and I didn't win. And again, the phone story, like I wake up in the morning and have to test whether there's a dial tone. Because you could hear a pin drop. It feels like all my flowers have wilted. I mean, that's how bad it is. So quiet, right?

The phone rings once at about 11 in the morning, and it's Jack who did win the night before. And he calls me Whitey. He named me that during Cornell Knowledge, and he said, you know, Whitey, Angelica and I are going to have lunch at El Cholo's. Want to come with? I'll come by and pick you up. So he did. He came by, he drove to the hotel, picked me up, we went downtown, just the three of us

had the loveliest, sweetest time. And it was so unbelievably empathetic and kind of him because he knew what that next morning was like. He knew what it was like he remembered and he wanted to soften the blow for me. Isn't that nice, Gilbert? Yeah, it's kind of funny. It seems like when when someone's nominated, they are really important. And and then quickly you become not someone who didn't win,

but a loser. That's right. You can bypass the didn't win, but a loser. That's right. You can bypass the didn't win and go straight to loser. And they're in such a hurry to talk to the winner that there's they trample over you. Trample over you. And you can't get your car, you know, in the ceremony. Like you're out there till three in the morning waiting for your car. No, I'm kidding.

But there's a big difference. I think it's always kind of sweet when someone takes the stage, when a winner finally takes the stage to make their speech and they thank or at least acknowledge the other nominees in their category. I agree. So nice. There's something nice about it because they're being inclusive about it. It's not like, okay, you'll never hear those names again.

It's fair, you know, people have said they think you did an exceptional job if you get nominated, but then between, you know, the five or six people's exceptional jobs, you know, it's slightly hit or miss as to who got the most votes or didn't quite get the most votes. So I think it's fair to acknowledge your fellow artists because also just think of the many brilliant performances every year that don't get seen and don't get nominated because they didn't have a big studio behind them and they didn't have the

money to spend on press and you know you see incredible performances every year that get no acknowledgement at all. I remember Dustin Hoffman when he won the Academy Award. I said I refused to accept that I'm a better actor than and he named all the other people. That is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nicely done. Another sweet story too. And you know, this is obviously we know this is this could, you know, it can be an unkind business at times but you were 17 when you went off to shoot carnal knowledge and Mike Nichols was another person at a kind of a key moment in your life that that said something very kind to you said something that you never forgot yes and this what he said to me was a part of his genius I was such a nervous wreck, you know, and they had been shooting already in Vancouver, so a kind of a family had formed between Mike and Candy and Jack and Artie and Jules Pfeiffer and the, you know, the crew and Thea Silbert, Dick Silbert silver and then I come in from nowhere and known by nobody.

And, uh, then I have to just walk on a set the next day with all these. How are house artists? And, you know, I just was so nervous and I, I said, Mike, I, I'm just so worried, I'm so nervous. And he said, why is that? And I said, well, I'm just, you know, afraid that I won't be able to do what you need or be who you need me to be or whatever. And he said, you are absolutely perfect for this part. You can do no wrong.

You are absolutely perfect. And I believed him and he meant it by the way. And because he meant it, that was what happened. He made actors better by believing in them to that degree that they were brave for him. They wanted to be brave for him because he was so loving and also such a great artist at the same time.

What a great attribute for a director. No. To make actors feel so wanted. I think that it is. If there is a magic trick with directors, I mean, it's not a magic trick. It was more than more than more than genuine. But if anybody asks me what makes

the difference between a good director and a great director, that might be one of my answers. It's a director who believes in you. Of the list of directors I was raving about here, too, I don't want to leave off our friend Richard Donner, who did the show, but also Joan Micklin-Silver. Gilbert and I are big fans of Crossing the Lancy. Yes.

Yes. Yes, wonderful. Somebody else who, you know, you clicked with early. Yes. And your career? Wonderful. Somebody else who you clicked with early. Yes. And then Amy Irving, of course. Sylvia Miles. The great Sylvia.

We just lost. We have to ask you about something that's important. I was just going to say, Crossing the Lancy Street is one of those romantic comedies that's not like a goofy. Romantic comedies are usually like goofy and they're exaggerated. Or they're formulaic. Yeah, but Joan, she's such a good writer. That doesn't happen when she puts pen to paper. She made a great short, Bernice Bobbs Her Hair,

with Shelley De Bobbs. Our listeners should find that too. And Bud Court. And Bud Court, absolutely. Seek that one out. And I'm also gonna recommend a movie called My First Mister with you and Albert Brooks, directed by Christine Lottie. Oh, thank you.

Also, which our listeners, but we have to ask you something Carol that I found in my research that is near and dear to Gilbert and that is interesting about the character that you play on Kimmy and she's a character who fights against gentrification. She's somebody who loves New York City and that is near and dear to you personally. She's sort of like a Jane Jacobs kind of a, but that's important to Gilbert and to me. And it's something we talk about the loss of neighborhoods, the loss of old New York, the loss of movie theaters,

the loss of bookstores, so much of the city losing its identity. Totally. Just, you know, you go down a subway Upper West Side you come out and so how and it's you're in the same place You see the same stores you see the same you know pharmacies and banks and you're just in the same place used to be when you got on the Training you hop out in a different world you know

different they used to be these junk stores that didn't, you know, they had a little bit of clothes, a little bit of razor blades. You mean odds and ends stores or like five and dime? Yeah. And and I could walk around those for the day. Well, there were book and record stores that you could lose a day in. Yes. Just go in and look through soundtrack albums, or just look, just go into, you know, use bookstores, or. Yeah.

So much of it. And you know, we've lost Roseland, and we've lost the Siegfeld, and I could go on and on. And you know, I assume that going to the movies back, because you're such a movie buff like us that going to the movies And having that experience you mentioned young Frankenstein That's something that I saw in the movies with my dad and that experience especially now with them being threatened by what's going on but I

Hate to think that we're gonna lose so much Houses, you know, are just either have died or are seriously ill, you know. Almost all of them. Well, we lost the Lincoln Plaza cinemas recently and the failure. I remember with like movies, I'm talking like it was five thousand years ago, and it feels like it, that that moment you're sitting in the chair waiting and you sense that the lights in the theater have just gone like a shade darker. And you go, oh, the movie's gonna start now.

Yeah, so exciting. And I don't think there used to be like 45 minutes of trailers before the movie. No. You finish your popcorn and you of trailers before the movie. No. You finish your popcorn, you finish your popcorn and you haven't started the movie. Yeah. I've mentioned it on the show, it's kind of a downer, Carol,

but I was in LA for a number of years and I moved back to New York in 2003. And I think I've seen about 20 theaters shutter in Manhattan since I got back and that's only 17 years. And I wonder what will happen now because of COVID I don't know. It breaks apart. One of the things that might be lost I don't know. Let's hope not.

Because that Gilbert Scorsese picture needs to be seen with an audience. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha So the Kimmy Schmidt movie, Kimmy Schmidt versus the Reverend, I guess is what it's being called, premieres on Netflix on May 12th. So when you hear this, it will already be streaming. And it's so much fun to make because it is an interactive movie, which I had never heard of or seen. But you get to choose, each audience member gets to choose between three endings in each scene. Oh, it's like Clue, Gilbert. And like Mr. Sardonychus.

Mr. Sardonychus, yeah. I don't know, but, and then, so you get an entirely different story. You can get all four of our stories all different ways. So you can watch this thing a million times and never have it be the same twice. I think it's so much fun. That's a great gimmick. Carol, this was a lot of fun.

Oh, and we'll when I say the good night, I'll need you for two quick things. You want her to say the F word again, Gil? I OK, I want that on the show. The last thing I wanted on the show is, can you, it would be an honor if you would, if you, Carol Kane would say, Gilbert, go fuck yourself. All right, this is what I'm gonna say. Gilbert, go F yourself.

No, you have to say fuck. That'll be three times in one show. Plus, you know, Gilbert, I don't know if you noticed, but there are young people here with you. Okay. Okay, okay. Yeah, Gilbert, class up there, will ya? Gilbert, go fuck yourself.

Thank you, Carol. That is an honor. That's an exchange for you putting in a good word with Marty and Bob. Oh, God. Gilbert, can you do that for her? That's an exchange for you putting in a good word with Marty and Bob. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Gilbert, can you do that for her? Yes. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Frank Santopadre and we have had the wonderful Carol Kane. And Johnny.

What's the dog's name Carol? Johnny, we can see Johnny waving. Carol, you've had the kind of career where we could go on for six hours. Thank you all for being so kind and fun. And I'm sorry for my swearing. It was one of the best parts. It's from the last details from hanging out with sailors.

Oh, that's right. Last question. Did you work with Richard Kind and Larry Storch in Sly Fox? I did. There you go. How about that, Gil? And Arthur Pan. Arthur Pan directed it. Arthur Pan, another great director. I heard with the last detail, just to have it ready for TV afterwards,

the old cursing when they curse, they turn their head from the camera to make it easier to put in clean words. That's true. But I'm glad you- Just, okay. I mean, I'm not an authority, but I can't imagine how saying to any of them, turn your head away for the camera so we can loop it without swear words.

That's just not him. That is not him. Watch the movie again, Gilbert. You can see Hal Ashby at the bar. Yes! A little quick cameo. Oh. I noticed it last night.

Okay, so can we have an ID where you say, I'm Carol Kane and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But do it any way you want it, Carol. Yeah. I'm Carol Kane and you are listening to Gilbert Guthrie's Amazing Colossal podcast. And can you say Amazing Colossal Show also? Just Amazing Colossal Show. Amazing Colossal Show. Good. We'll sell that together. Carol,

you're so kind and so generous to give us all this time. It's been really fun. We loved going down memory lane with you. It's been really fun. Thank you both for being so kind and Dara, thank you, and the kids, and John. And thanks to your manager again, Donald. Okay, I'll tell them. And thank you to John Murray as always. Thanks John, thanks for saving me even though I didn't have no headphones or nothing. Bye everybody. Unbreakable, they're live, damn it! But females are strong and tame. Unbreakable, they're live, damn it! It's America!

Unbreakable, they're live, damn it! That's going to be a, you know, a fascinating transition. Damn it!