Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Dick Cavett Encore

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

GGACP celebrates the birthday (November 19th) of 4-time guest and friend of the podcast, the legendary Dick Cavett, by presenting this ENCORE of a fascinating interview from 2019. In this episode, Dick shares delightful (and hilarious) anecdotes about Jack Benny, Stan Laurel, Truman Capote and Walter Winchell (among others) and looks back on  memorable sit-downs with Orson Welles, John Lennon, George Harrison and Laurence Olivier. Also in this episode: Peter Lorre fails the audition, Lily Tomlin storms off the set, Bob Hope comes to Lincoln, Nebraska and Jack Paar sabotages “Fat Jack” Leonard. PLUS: Oskar Homolka! “Chuckles Bites the Dust”! The return of Richard Loo! Johnny Carson disses Jerry Lewis! And Dick introduces “An Evening with Groucho”! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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within his built-in family. Experience rental family only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This is where the DJ talks. Don't say anything. Okay. Hey, I'm Dave Thomas. You're listening to Gilbert Godfried's amazing colossal cod pass. Cod piece. This amazing colossal codpiece. All right, let me try that again. Hi, I'm Dave Thomas. You're listening to Gilbert Godtreets' colossal amazing podcast. Is it?

It's amazing colossal podcast. One more time. Hi, I'm Dave Thomas. You're listening to Gilbert Godthreat's amazing colossal podcast. Very good. Yes. Fantastic. It's a beauty way to go

Take up to the train right now You're insane, eh? Robert Godford's amazing colossal podcast, I'm here once again with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre, and our engineer, Frank Ferdorosa. Our guest this week is back for a third go-round in the hot seat, and we're both thrilled and surprised that he continues to indulge us. He's a writer, comedian, occasional actor, best-selling author, New York Times columnist, Emmy-winning talk show host, and one of the most recognized and admired pop culture figures of the 20th century. You've seen him in numerous movies and TV shows, including The Phil Silver Show, The Odd Couple.

Annie Hall, Cheers, Beetlejuice, Kate and Alley, Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, and Children's Hospital, to name a few. Wow. He's also appeared in successful stage plays, including into the woods, the Rocky Horror Show, which I did too. Yeah. And Hellman v. McCarthy. In a long and illustrious career, he's hosted variety specials, narrated documentaries, performed both magic and stand-up comedy and written jokes for Jack Parr, Johnny Carson,

and yes, Jerry Lewis. This guy sounds obnoxious. As the host of his own acclaimed talk shows, he's conducted interviews with dozens of influential figures including Woody Allen, Mohamed Ali, Orson Wells, John Lennon, Salvador Dahlies, Sir Lawrence Olivier, Catherine Hepburn, Jimmy Hendrix, and Alfred Hitchcock. He's also interviewed people near and dear to this very podcast, including John Caradine, Elsa Lancaster, Rod Serling, and of course his longtime friend Groucho Marx. His wonderful book from a few years ago is called Brief Encounters and includes delightful anecdotes about everyone from Tony Curtis to John. Jonathan Winters.

Please welcome back to the show the podcast guest who started it all 235 episodes ago and a man who had the guts to ask Betty Davis how she lost her virginity. Our pal Dick Havitt. Mr. Cabot couldn't really be here tonight

because he's a bit under the weather. But I'm his housemaid, and I've come from the old country, and I'm just a jolly piece of... I'm a person. Is that your Una O'Connor? It was a Euna O'Connor. It's supposed to be Hermione Gingold. But I'm a little horse, so I couldn't get down to Hermione's...

Hermione... God, I haven't thought of her in long... I remember the time I asked her after I'd had several people who had been in London during the Blitz, and I said to her, were you bummed during the war? And she said, I was bombed during most of the war. That's a great line. Welcome back, Dick.

Yeah, thank you. Now, you were telling us the one actor, one famous actor who no one imitates. No one ever has. And I asked the great Will Jordan. And it's Basil Rathbone. And he said, yes, I can't really hook on. to that. Interesting.

There's a resonance. You know it's Rathbone. He doesn't sound like anyone else. He isn't an Englishman, oddly enough. He's from South Africa, as so many of us are. And I just, oh, shall I tell you something even more interesting?

Sure. This might change my life. Yes. To you exclusively. My wife, my beautiful darling wife, sent in one of those ancestry type things. Oh, Ancestry.com, yeah. Right, the DNA test.

And hers came back and you can tell from looking at her what it would inevitably be English, French, French, Scottish, Welch, but nothing really exotic. And I had all of those two with a heavy ladling of German, because of my German relative, of course. and then she said hold it point it toward me

don't you see that line with all the other countries and things that goes South Sudan the blackest part of the globe South Sudan she has a percentage of blood

of Sudanese blood wow that's interesting I have no rhythm at all Gil, you should do yours. You should do the ancestry. I want to. You got to be careful with that. Isn't that fascinating?

Do you know some woman told me, and I don't know if this is true, the company could be making this shit up, that her husband went to it, and they even were able to decipher that his chain goes back to Neanderthal. is that sounds like that doesn't sound right how would they know how would they be able to go back that far they would have to have the bones there to scrape it sounds like total horseshit i see the neanderthals knocked out the uh angry uh not the anglo-saxons um so it's my history that's a little screwed up

I remember the late dopey Elsa Maxwell. She said once she was having a feud with Walter Winchell, young folks, ask your parents whose names these are. The people who listen to this show just might know, Dick. Yeah, I know. Now, the Neanderthals were on the planet with the other type cavemen. I used to think it was a million years between. Whom did the Neanderthals eradicate the...

They were the troglodytes. My wife would not. They were, yeah. You keep meaning to have them over. Yeah. What's the Walter Winchell story? Oh, she was feuding with Walter Winschell. I want to talk about the troglodytes.

She was always feuding with Walter Winschell. Okay. Elsa Maxwell. Yeah. Yeah. And she said, I finally thought of something, Jack. I want to call him on your show. It's a name and a word that I only just discovered.

He's a neum. Undearthal man. She was close. I was standing in the back of the studio. I wanted to run down. She was close. Now, is it true in a TV movie about Walter Winchell? They said he used to drink a big glass of water before he'd do his broadcast.

So that would make him rush through the broadcast. Because he had to pee. Yeah. Yes. I'd never heard that. That's fascinating. He used a full bladder to speed himself up. Yes.

Yeah. Fascinating. Of course, he'd have to finish up the show to run and pee. Is that how you got through the intro so quickly? Yeah. You broke your own speed record. It's really about me in that intro. All true.

Get this for a name drop. Walter took me to the Copacabana one night. Walter Wynchel. he was in his latter years obviously he had a 38 in his cummerbund I could just got a glimpse of and a tuxedo on a weeknight to go to the Copacoban

why was he packing heat nobody in the place had a tachito on and Tony Martin gurgled out some songs Tony Martin between sips isn't Tony Martin in the big store you work with the Marxist Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tony Martin. And his opening act for a while in Vegas was Pat Cooper. There you go. Yeah. Is that so? Yeah, and Pat Cooper commented on, like, they would see, you know, one, you know, handsome guy singing and one guy doing jokes. So they thought Pat Cooper must have been the Jew, and Tony Martin was Italian. Pat Cooper. God, he said he made me laugh.

Walter, all his life, professional life, had a two-way special police radio that the cops had given him because he was such a good friend of theirs, however many ways. And so I got into that car with him, and we followed police calls. Everywhere with police call, he'd head for it, if there was a shooting, getting stuff for his column. Walter Winchell.

Winchell. And one night we went, yeah, or do I mean Tony Martin? No, it could be. So he actually witnessed this stuff. Oh, yeah, he said this is stuff that I've seen with my own eyes. And he would go down to murders, sites and fires and domestic, violent places and stuff. And we went not to one of those, unfortunately, but a jail, some part of town, branch of the jail and it went inside

and there were a couple of sleepy guys in the cells and it felt so funny to be there with a man with a 38 in his cumberbund and his tucks and we walked to talk to some people down there while and I thought this is so sad

he is utterly totally vanished and forgotten Walter Winchell Winschell isn't the Burr Lancaster character in the A sweet smell of success based on... He was a hell of a tap dancer,

which Mel Brooks says about Hitler, but he really was. Great vaudevillian. And as we were leaving the jail with nothing having happened and nothing he could use, a young guy says, hey, pop, keep talking.

Yeah, you, pop, keep talking. Hi, oh, I know who you are. And Walter came a little bit of a lot. the voice over, the voice on the series. The untouchables. The untouchables, yeah. And Walter came alive for a bit there. That's something that bothers you

that people don't know who these great stars are anymore. That people don't. I saw that in an interview with you. It's concerning to you that people don't know the name's Bob Hope, the name's Groucho Marx, something we talk about on here a lot. For God's sake. I know, how's that possible?

I got set back this year about two years ago or maybe three. Hey, Mr. Cavett, a young adult that looked like, can you help me with who, let's see, who are the Mock's brothers and who was Johnny Carson? Oof, that hurts. And that hurt. It sure does.

Of course, he'd been off for 25 years. But again, the aforementioned Mr. Woody Allen, we talked about once, Cavett, when we were young, we knew our Benchley, our Thurber, our Kaufman, our Marks brothers, our fields. And they were way before us. Of course.

Gilbert, and... But tonight, anything ahead of your birth is out of fashion. Yeah, I don't understand that at all. I spoke to some guy recently who had no idea who David Letterman was. Well, Johnny Carson, David Letterman. It's scary. Don't mention any more talk show. Yeah, yes.

Oh, boy. So Basil Rathbone was from where again, South Africa? Yeah, yeah. That's so weird. I guess from the British colony of South Africa. I don't even came across that recently. So Basil Rathbone's an African-American. Like me.

That's probably why we hit it off. We had a, I won't say that. We were talking before we turned the mics on about how it's an impossible impression to do Basil Rathbone. And then Gilbert, you offered that Nigel Bruce was easy to do. Yeah, that's an easy. I heard that when they were doing the Sherlock Holmes radio show, Basil Rathbone, of course, played Sherlock Holmes on the radio. And sometimes Basil Rathbone would imitate Nigel Bruce. So Nigel Bruce wouldn't even have to show up.

He could do his interest with. Basil Rathbone would do a Nigel Bruce imitation. Let's hear your Nigel bruce, go. Oh, yes, Holmes. That's what you're going to do is Holmes. Now, say something to me as Holmes as much as you can. Yes. Oh, we found the fingerprints here.

Oh, really, Holmes? Dueling Nigel bruce is They're really homes Oh no Never cease to amaze me But your Richard Liu Remains the industry standard thing That's my own

I haven't even seen anybody Try to do Richard One guy tried embarrassingly Right on a street somewhere But he was doing a Chinese People stopping you in the street To do Richard Lou Impress

I must remind you, You are and I said, that's a Chinese person. Now, don't scorn me because Richard Liu was Chinese, but, oh, I hate to do this to people. The man who does the noir section of Turner Classic movies is very good and obviously very smart and knowledgeable, but he knocked me in the stomach last week.

Eddie Muller? I think it is. Eddie Miller. He said, I think he was talking about maybe the Purple Heart or something, and that wonderful Japanese actor, Richard Liu. Now, first of all, your name couldn't be Lou if you're Japanese. And he isn't. I do one line as Richard Liu.

Go for it. And that's Ah, Kravkarya. Oh, I'm killed. I don't trespass on your team. share it to us. You know what it was about it when I was trying to get

the tenor their range of his voice it's a little I think strangely enough Catherine Hepburn first because my voice is lower than both hers and

but so I think of Capburn and instead of going I must that I'm I must remind you, Captain, that a chain is no stronger than that weak as to rank. Beautiful. Still the best Richard Liu. In the Purple Heart, that fades.

Weakest rink. It's funny because they used to get Chinese actors to be evil Japanese generals. Ironic as hell. Well, their families were being raped in Nanking. uncle played a Japanese soldier in an American movie. And they would sometimes get like German Jewish actors as Nazis. Lots of them. Oh, yeah, sure.

What about Walter Schlezek with many Nazi officers? And there was this actor, I think, Oscar. Carl Weiss. No, Oscar Himmiki. Oscar Hamulka? Not Hamulka. Close. We know him.

But it was like Hamike or something. He was in two Twilight Zone episodes. Look that up. I want to know who it is. One of them was called Welcome to Death's Head. And the other one had to do with they're all frozen. And then, oh, it's Claude Aiken's in it. Oh, yeah, I know the one you mean.

And he, I think it was like Hamike. I'll look him up while you guys talk amongst yourselves. I don't know. There was an Oscar Hamolka and an Oscar Hamike. Yes. Something wrong with you think one of them would have changed it. Death's head. Twilight Zone.

Because there he played a Nazi officer. And they said like in Casablanca, they had a lot of actors there who were Jews who in the old country and their country were major stars now playing little bit parts or just in Nazi uniforms. I think Oscar Carl Weiss was one of those. Oh, I got the guy. you mean. Oscar Beregi? Bereghi! Oh, my uncle Boreghi! Yeah!

You know him? You know him, Dick? No, not a bit. You'll recognize him if you saw him in a second. I can't forget seeing Oscar Hamolko on 81st Street. You did? Yeah, looking at an art gallery window with his beautiful wife, Joan Tetzel. What do we bring in me, sir?

I know this actor. yes I think so I will tell you when I get my glasses on he had a lot of stuff Ask a bridge you Oh it's Shildkraut

Yeah Shildkraut behind him Yeah He's sort of a Werner Klemperer type Yes I saw Shildkra on the stage Werner Klemper Another Jew Klemper

And I saw Shilkrat do The Diary of Anna Frank Or of you people say Anne Frank. Mm-hmm. But in the old country, we say. You know, there's an episode of the odd couple where Oscar's calling up some girl, and he goes, yeah, hello, it's Oscar.

And then there's a pause. He goes, Oscar Madison, how many Oscars you know? And then he goes, you know Oscar, or Malta? I hope Amulka heard that. Hey, wouldn't it be wonderful? if from my having seen Hamolka on stage twice, I could suggest

his voice for just a moment, a syllable or two, how would I do it? It was the play in which he was, instead, it was Japanese. They all played Japanese. Rod Steiger with Berr and...

Rod Steiger was playing Japanese? Yeah, and that I had a lot of tissue. Well, with the wig and... I don't know. know if he used the things for the eyes that really works but um let's see what was that thing called anyway homoka was this was ado japan way back um and he was a wig maker and killed people to get their hair for wigs or no i tell a lie he robbed graves and salvaged and harvested hair for the wigs

and somebody admonished him that was a terrible thing to do and I'm going to try it now and he said what the matter they were dead anyway could you hear it nicely done

all right Gil since you brought up Clazablanca and Dick's into impressions I'm going to put you on the spot again I'm going to make you do Peter Lorry because Dick have you ever heard

as Peter Lorry Well, the best ever. You Americans pronounce it, Lori. Yes, we Americans. It is Peter Lorre. Peter Lorre? Laura? Laura, too sure.

Is the Irish? It's from Glacomora. Give it to him, Gil. You despass me, don't you? If I gave any thought, I probably would. But all I do is prefer documents to leave the country chance. Evil visas and a price you got, eh, and a price. No.

You can be sued for that. Rick, you got to save me. Rick, you've got to help me. That reminds me of one of my favorite Spike Jones records. What? A great Spike Jones record. Yeah. My old flame is a real song.

And a nice tenor, real straight singer. in Spike Jones troupe named Frank Carlson, I think, trivia, sang it. And then in the middle of it, they would do another go-through of the lyrics, a new segment, and it was so good. It had to be Peter Laura without Billing. I've never heard anyone say his name that way. Yeah, it's Germans well.

Is that the best Peter Laura you've ever heard? Yeah, it's really good. Now, it inspires me to try to do my old flame. No, no, no, no, my old flame, my old flame, I can't even

think of her name. She would always something, something and something, something, something, something. She had, the something gaze and something and then there was a wonderful punchline to that i want can you queue up uh can the guys there in the control room give us a hang on a second

i'm 12 years old i can't even i can't even think of her name But it's funny now and then How my thoughts go flashing back again To my old flame I've met so many who had fascinating ways A fascinating gaze In their eyes Some who took me up to the sky

You're gonna love it But their attempts at love were only imitations of my old flame. This is a Spike Jones version? Wow. Just wait. It's a big setup. But I'll never be the same until I discover what became of my old flame.

Ha! My... My old frame... I can't even think of her name. I'll have to look through my collection of human heads. But it's funny. now and then how my thoughts go flashing back again to my old flame. Carl Grayson.

Wow. My old flame. My new lovers all seem so tame. They won't even let me strangle them. For I haven't met a girl so magnificent or elegant is my old flame. I've met so many who had fascinating ways, a fascinating gaze in their eye. I saw this eye, so I removed the other eye, that eye that kept winking and blinking at other men. It was make, I was, it was, it was, it was, some who took me up to the skies.

But there attempts at love were only him. Amazing. And who was the person doing the Peter Lorne impression? I'm not sure. It wasn't George Rock. It's pretty good. I don't think it was Carl Grayson. I used to know all the Spike Jones guys. What do you think, Gil?

Oh, yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah, very good. There's some strange and wonderful stuff on the old Spike Jones records. I used to imitate him. Spike Jones. Yeah, and I had a thing in the basement with the horns and all things. When you were a kid?

Yeah, yeah. I found something in my... research that you did as a kid that i never knew about you you made like jones time and he came to lincoln yeah and he came to grand island uh to omaha last time i saw him in omaha he was getting dressed and i stuck my head in the dressing room door and i said he coming to lincoln again spike he said we'll be over to see you one day that's nice that's a good story i heard a story I heard a story that one time they brought Peter Lurie in to do a voiceover, and they said, okay, you know, he started out by saying, hello, this is Peter Lur.

And he goes, hello, this is Peter Lorry. And they go, no, no, hello, this is Peter Lurie. And he starts going, hello, this is Peter Lurie. He didn't pass the audition? Yeah, yeah, he did a terrible Peter Lurie imitation. I just think that's wonderful. He was a morphine addict, as was Baylorogic. Yeah, sure.

Two other people. Yeah. Well, because I heard he, one time he was making a movie, and I don't know, the director's name, Vincent, something. And he said, can we do that take again? And Lori said, no, brother, Vincent. I only do crap once a day. And they said, well, what about those Mr. Motto pictures you did?

He goes, that was different. I was on drugs. Perfect. Wow. Jesus. You will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcasts, right after these important. Messedious.

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Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal podcast. So let's go. Dick, speaking of your childhood, you also made Monster masks? Oh. I thought Gilbert would spark to this. I got hooked on makeup, character makeup, and I think it probably from

seeing, what's his name, Scott, who did the Frankenstein Jack Pierce. And there was some big names in makeup in those days, character especially. And it reminds me of it. I did a tweet

recently. I hate to admit it. How did that thing go? Oh, a friend of mine works with a place that makes those monster masks to scare kids at Halloween. And they have the Frankenstein monster and the wolfman and Dracula and Richard Nixon. All the ghouls. And I said, they don't know this year. Oh, shit, I won't be able to think of his name.

He was kicked out of the Nixon administration. the alt-right man you know with shaggy hair and let's change it to not to kicked out of the Nixon administration I don't mean the Nixon

administration the current is kicked out of the White House or the Trump White House Oh Steve Bannon Steve Bannon So the last line of my tweet was they're trying to decide

what to design this year to scare the Katie it's a toss-up between Steve Bannon and a Catholic priest. Ouch! Ouch! I didn't know whether

send it in or not, but I did. So goodbye forever, Mr. Cabot. Let me ask you about there's a new Laurel and Hardy movie out, by the way. Have you seen it? What are you saying? There's a movie out with John C. Riley,

the actor, and Steve Coogan, the British comic, about the life of Laurel and Hardy. And they play Stan and Ollie? Yes, indeed. Are they good? Leonard Moulton, I think, said he saw it. Leonard Moulton liked it.

Yeah. Has it played movie theaters? He's playing theatrically. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'd like to see that. Yeah. I knew Stan Laurel.

I was going to just use that as a segue to that. Yeah. About meeting Stan in Santa Monica. Yeah. The Santa Monica. And the, uh, it's a apartment house that sticks out a bit, right? and he had a big view window, then it was a modest living room in a desk.

And while I was there, a phone rang, and he had to transact some business over the phone. I just 10 feet away. And it was so strange, I kept going, this efficient, nicely groomed, intelligent, well-read man, is the one who came down the chimney

on top of his friend and the other man doing the dance their dances are fabulous oh yeah especially the one way out west yeah yeah but he was how did you just look him up in the phone he was in the phone book famously

I was a copy boy at time at time right and I left there to go to Jack Park because it was he paid more than my magazine paid $60 a week or whatever for cover and I had to return, it's this real happenstance

or coincidence almost, I had to return an envelope from one of the writers in the folder that they're all in to and it was under, it was for someone named Latla or L-A-T-L-E-R something. I thought,

right next to that is L-A-U Lawrence no just before Lawrence something Laurel Stan I pulled it out and there was an article about how he was alive in Santa Monica and so and um

so I remember best he was talking about Christmas and he said you know babe and I never actually observed Christmas very much babe less than I did but one day I took him a bottle of wonderful bourbon

and he hadn't taken me anything it was on Christmas Day and he gave him the bottle of bourbon and he of course thanked him and put it down under the tree and he said it was obvious from the moment I came in that he didn't have anything for me

but babe said bourbon is interesting isn't it and he went over to his drink shor-hade trolley and got a very fine bottle of bourbon. And Stan said, I think we're going to make history here. And Ali held it out and said, I looked at it and realized it really was a fine bourbon. Second thoughts about giving it to him.

And he said, it's just very hard to find this in Los Angeles and put it back down. Oh, man. It was interesting, too, that you mentioned Chaplin to him. You were peeved, if I have this right, that he wasn't mentioned. Boy, you're a homeworker. Yeah, and you said you'd read something where he wasn't included with Chaplin, and he said rather humbly that he didn't think he deserved to be mentioned with Chaplin. Does that ring a bell?

You've got it right. Yes, I'll now perform it for you. Can you put the light over me a little more? Sure. Thank you. get the green out of it uh yeah he uh chaplain's biography had come out oh there's the biography right here and it had the modest ego title of my autobiography redundant right so i read it and there was no mention of stan anywhere in it but there was a photo caption of the carno troop k-a-r-r-n-o that stan and

Chaplin had been in. And I said, why the hell couldn't the little fellow find room for you in his my autobiography? And he said, well, to mention me in the same breath with Charlie's heresy, I just can't do it. How about that? How about that modesty? Now, was a lot of the stuff that Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel did in movies, just standard pieces from that English troupe?

Some might have been. I really don't know. I've never said. Somebody should treat that in a learned essay. I don't know where their earliest stuff came from, but it must have been. Hardy was never in that troop, so. Yeah, well, he was American. Yeah, totally American.

He said, he had a vowel that was close. close to groucho, close to grouchos, well, you suddenly could have fooled me. Oh, that's right. Interesting. And Hardy would say, that's not your, babe, and it's a little different, babe. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Is it true that Kramer asked him to be in it's a mad, mad world, and he turned him down? Yeah, he said, I don't know if I brought the subject up or not. He said, I don't want to appear anywhere. I don't want the kids to see what I look like. Oh, that's a shame. He could easily. I heard Jerry Lewis when he was putting together his production company asked Stan Laurel. To be a technique?

Yes. Yeah, I heard that. And Johnny came into my office one day. And he said, did you see where, oh, no, I had had a letter. from Stan and I said Johnny Stan who's been in the hospital for a few weeks

and he came out and it was fine but Jerry Lewis came and visit him in the hospital and it gave me quite a lift he said no I tell a lie can we buy this and tear it up and burn it Johnny came and visited him in the hospital

and Stan wrote to me and it gave me quite a lift then I said And you know Jerry Lewis has gone and visit him in the hospital too And Johnny said Yeah that must be a great lift for somebody who's not feeling well Having that asshole comes I laughed

Oh boy I read one of your columns in the times about Jerry And you actually liked him I mean in spite of his his worst characteristics yeah there was a lot likable about him i'm sorry and he was very good to uh for me anyway to work with um the first time i ever saw him in my life where else would you see somebody um but uh he came up to the tonight offices to host for a week in that interim where they used all everybody in show between par and carson yeah the mort's all growls

Pauceau, Peggy Lee, I don't know who all did it. The worst was Art Link Letter. Yes, I read that column, too. I hope that doesn't sound negative at all. I'll give you an example. The great David Lloyd, for the listeners, the same David Lloyd I was in college with. And he was Jack Pard's actually next-door neighbor in Fronksville.

and he wanted to write and he was a brilliant writer and he wrote for Jack and then he wrote for me or he and I then wrote for Jack and he was the late great David Lloyd of Chuckles Bites the Dust fame and Richard Corliss in time

always called him the Great David Lloyd and he went to Hollywood thinking I had all these kids and I need money and it's a risk and he only managed to write Mary Tyler Moore and Cheers and taxi and two or three other

A legend. The famous Chuckles Bites the Dust episode, The Clown. David and I had been warned about someone on the Tonight Show staff. And it was Woody who gave me my warning. He said, Cavett, you're going to meet tomorrow in your first day of work, the worst person in the world. I said, Bob and Ray actually had a character at one point called the worst person.

The worst person in the world. The worst person in the world that's out in his yard right now. He moved in their neighborhood. This was Jack's head writer. And you know, many stars an artist, great artist, have one unexplainable friend

that everyone hates. Sometimes several. and he doesn't deserve it. I don't know if Arthur Rubinstein does, but, you know, a lot of comics do. And managers that drive their career as far down on the ground as they can as with Jonathan Winters.

But this guy was a knifer, a gossip, thwarter of other people's successes. I don't want to use his name, but his initials were Paul Keyes. Oh, Paul Key, of laughing. Yeah, Paul Keyes. David got enough of him one day and said, Paul, your parents owe the world of retraction.

I don't know if he got it. He'd get a strained laugh. Now, what did Jonathan Winters manager do? Oh, I don't know. I have no business saying that, really, because I didn't know them. But people say, you know, his manager took him into the ground. I mean, stupid ideas and stuff.

Oh, let me tell you about Paul, one thing. He came out of the men's room on the seventh floor of NBC when he at 30 Rock. Just as David and I came walking past. And Paul waved and went off. And David said, what do you suppose Paul does in the bathroom? In the men's room? What do you suppose he does in him? But I said, that's where he puts his best stuff on paper.

Ouch. You never let me forget that. I hate you, Kevin. I wish I'd say. But it just, it came, you know. So he was that one guy. You love Jack, but he was that one friend that you couldn't. He was the, you just couldn't understand the relationship.

Scab on the back of. Now, did you ever see, you must have seen Jerry Lewis his horrible side. in fact i didn't ever seem to anything nasty to anybody myself but um if you're looking for horrible sides yes would be right up there among them that awful interview he did where he wouldn't answer the guy and just oh oh yeah well back somebody wrote an article about how he went to entertain took the invitation at an old folks home and he said he came out and he was funny for a few minutes and then he began to insult them and then he did really dirty material some of them became sort of ill and laughed he was a son of a bitch and certainly

Woody wrote him a letter once way back having seen I forgotten what and just said I just want to tell you what a great great artist you really are and at times he is well That interview with you that you did is on... Dick just smelled the search of work side. Yeah, that interview you did with him sort of, which is on YouTube, on the Cavett Show. You know, I've got to watch that. I've heard more people mention that. It brings out the best in him, I must say.

He was well-behaved. Yeah. And I probably did something that night and didn't get to see it. And I never have seen it. Well, you should watch it. I will take your word that I must. I'll say it twice. Also, you brought up the best in hope in that interview.

Once he got past the schick and the gags, you actually got a real interview. I love you for saying that because I mentioned to somebody, I think it was maybe Woody. I said, you know, if you could get hope to talk, you did, just come on and do gags, plug his, plug his special with eight jokes that he uses on everybody's show. I think there is a person there, but you never see it. Yeah, you managed to get to it. He swapped gags, and I just made it my business. business and it upset him for a moment i i don't know it's some normal thing like oh i said

how did you get that scar it doesn't really show much but sitting here i can see it on your upper lip but and and he said oh yeah um and you thought if this is going to be a gag a fan did he said well i was protecting my dog some kids were throwing rocks at my dog and i took out after them got this scar and would you rather have a gag on that and I said no

it humanized him but many people have said they thought the only time it made them think he was a person yeah I'm going to send

both of those to you Gilbert Dick's interviews with Lewis Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope are on YouTube and you've never

seen either one of them more likable damn I want to see this I also watch the Orson Wells interview Dick which was absolutely

fascinating and he was so And he was in such good spirits and self-deprecating, and he made a joke about his weight. Yes. And another person that I think you brought the best out of. We overpaid him. How so? He always broke.

But be under the protection of some Italian countess or something, live in their castle for a while and then move to his next place. And we just paid him way over scale. in fact i doubt that the statute of limitations that's run out on it i remember my producing they don't let anybody know about this god but he he needed it to buy a dozen hot dogs with he was in good spirits on that show he got a big ovation yeah yeah he just he seemed happy to be there so was he totally self-destructive welds i don't know well certain weight alone yeah i guess but um he would louse things up in his life that should have gone better for him and all but he's way too complicated to for amateur analysis i think god what a guy which uh which interview and i've

heard you you say the harrison interview was one that kind of plagued you a little bit the george harrison interview although it started rough and got better i might have yeah that's what i've said and i think so many people have said did anyone tell you you were out of your mind trying to try to do 90 minutes with George Harrison. As I recall it, he got better after being of it. He did. He did. And he showed a sense of humor because you said at one point, you know, John and Yoko were in that very chair. He got up, he got the hell out of the chair.

I said Yoko was in the chair. Oh, Yoko. If it was John, he wouldn't have jumped up. Yoko. Brush himself. Right. He jumped out of the chair. I remember when George Harrison was on there as kind of a jab to John Lennon, who was like plugging a lot of

stuff when he was on the show telling every album he had out and everything and george harrison i don't know it goes oh john forgot to plug this when he was on the show last that's the one he plugged the christmas song yeah war is over yeah yeah yeah but it got better he warmed up to you my favorite moment for john puzzles viewers as i recall it's about 20 minutes into the show and he suddenly said dick what's your definition of love and it baffled people that was one of david frost standards i see every show he asked people that and john despised frost as much as i and the beyond the fringe people did they hated his guts peter cook put out a copy of his magazine, Private Eye. And there was a cover of Frosty, walking sort of toward the camera

at an angle. And he had an envelope or something, and it's as if he's hiding his crotch with it or holding it to his crotch, or holding his crotch with an envelope. And the caption was, David Frost, holding one of the few pieces of material thought to be his own. own. Wow. Gold. He stole stuff from every. The guts to steal from the fringe guys.

Did he steal from those guys? All the time. All the time. Now, what did you, everyone always talked about John Lennon being like, you know, this great mind and a great thinker, and what do you think? He was very intelligent guy. I said, high IQ. And it pains me to say that I had.

Two long letters from him, which I, to put it more hopefully, haven't seen in years. But they were absolutely brilliantly punned and constructed word games. And James Joyceian. And he was a worshipper of Joyce, of course. And he was a fan of that British comedy. He was a fan of the goons. That's why they chose Lester in the first place to make Hard Day's Night. Yeah. And who's the comic that, oh, shit. Everybody knew him, Milligan, nobody does here.

Spike Milligan? Yeah. Thank you. He came on a show of mine in London, and there were Chelsea pensioners in the audience, 20 old man veterans from the Chelsea home for veterans, and Milligan got in among them and made them laugh hysterically. Funny man. You worried about them. They were so pleased with the Milligan. On the Lennon subject, I just want to direct our listeners to your book from 2014, brief encounters, conversations, magic moments, and assorted hijinks. There's a sad John Lennon column that you wrote in here for the Times. Is that in that one?

It's in this book, and you refer to the time that he was on the show with you, and he made a quip about growing older and looking back on himself one day. on the Dick on the Dick Kavitt show and it's Jesus I think I may have thought of that

when I heard that he was dead but I remember I talking about it and how long ago is that when he was killed 1980 Jesus

yeah 198 12 every time I go by the Dakota me too I think maybe someday I won't think it. You know, like, don't think of the word, I'll when you walk into the cave or whatever that thing. And always there are some foreign friends from abroad who come up to me and say, Can you tell us there is strawberry fields?

I like that impression. I remember. And they were Chinese. I was on Saturday Night Live in that horrible season when John Lennon was shot. And they used to have these really uncomfortable parties after the show. They'd go to a restaurant. They still do them in the tradition. Well, it was mostly pot parties.

And after this one, it was like two days after John Lennon got shot. It was at a restaurant right across the street from the Dakota. Bad timing. Yeah. Bad choice. He was killed on a Monday. because I remember very vividly Howard Cosell interrupting Monday night football to make the announcement, December 8th.

That's not where I heard about it, but I can't remember where I did hear about it, but I can remember the feeling. Jesus Christ. What happened to those letters? Did you just misplace them? God, he knows, not I. You have any? Did you have?

It's Shakespeare. I heard, somebody told me, Oliver Hardy. was married to some Jewish woman at one point. I only know of one hardy wife, but there may have been another. And that may be the one. And they split up. And he said, according to this quote, she cast a Jewish hex on me.

He said that? Yeah. That's fascinating. And what was the result of that? I don't know. Oh, my God. I remember a thousand years ago following you around in a hotel. We had just done some show together.

I remember that, too. I don't remember what show we did. It may have been your show for all I know. It might have been. I was following you around just imitating the old groucho. Uh-huh. And... My brother.

Yeah. We were working as Velasco. Caesar, and Nunley Johnson came in. And Nunley Johnson used to like to smoke cigarettes. And then, you know,

because that was a very popular thing. A lot of people smoked cigarettes back then. And they would like them back then with a match. They would have a match.

and they'd run it against the safest, and a flame would come off from the match, and that's how they'd light their cigarettes. Your antique groucho should be in the Smithsonian. It's the Nunnalli Johnson reference that puts it over the top. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. And then I remember you, after a while, you couldn't take anymore,

and you were running away from me. And I followed you in the elevator. I had that thing where you let out all the air in you and you still can't take it into it. And then when you finally got to your room, I got on a whole phone and you said hello. I said, you had, you know, Peter Benchley. I probably thought it was possibly, was he alive then? Yeah. You could fool me.

Oh, Robert, yeah. Yeah, I don't think he was palling around when they were writing. Jaws. Robert, Robert Benchley used to wear a green jacket. And this was a jacket that had a green color on it. So it was a green jacket because it was both a jacket and it was green. What would Groucho have thought of him? Have you no mercy.

What would Groucho have thought of Gilbert's impression, Dick? Would he have appreciated it? Well, I think he probably would enjoy it. He loved talent. I remember once the very first time, and maybe only time, that I mentioned Jonathan Winters to him and like some idiot, I thought, I wonder if he knows who he is. And of course, and he just said, there's a giant talent.

How about that? I watched the episode of the Cavett show where he proposed to Truman Capote. Yes, wasn't that. Gold. And the best part of that was he had on the fabulous golf hat that he wore in my first great, full evening Groucho show. And he had it on again that night. It had knitted little snowman or something on it. And they were holding little miniature golf clubs.

You remember the hats? Yeah, the beret, and they'd have clown faces on golf balls. This had three knitted golf balls and two golfers, and he loved that hat. Anyway, on the same show, he reminded Truman that a nuptchel was possible if he wanted it. It was great. Or as everybody says, nuptial. And he repeated the offer, and Truman said, I could never marry a man

It has three balls On his hat Were the last three words I don't think anybody heard them Because three balls Has it got the last I don't know if you're able to do it on the spot If you could honor me in this way

I try Can you take the name Gilbert Gottfried And twist it into something Oh, you're an anagram expert. Yeah, I usually can't when I'm assigned one. Oh. They come unbidden. Sometimes I can.

You can take anyone's first and last name and turn it into a... Well, it happens when I'm a little tired. I see. It started with the game per quacky, where you dump out lettered cubes and make bath, bathe, star, rats, arts, penguins. And that started it, and it got so I couldn't go anywhere without seeing anagrams or rearrangements. And I was with Marshall Brickman, and he said,

you sure you get, and I said, no, I'm looking out of the train at night from, oh, Mr. Donut. And Donut was burned out, a neon red mister. He said, do mister. And I was in the vein. And they said, Mr. Remits, merits, merits, timers, mitters, and two more. That's impressive. The nicest, classiest one.

With the East Hampton Marquis, East Hampton movie theater, with the letters you stick up. And I don't know, some kid probably put up, and he thought, I got to have one name from the movie. So the Marquis read Lawrence of Arabia starring Alec Guinness. And I thought, I just had O'Toole on the show. And I thought, I'll take a picture so that O'Toole will see finally who the star of Lawrence is reading. I never did it, but I told him about it. But then I saw Alec Guinness.

a lot of the letters for genuine is there genuine laces no genuine class genuine class that's how did you know he could do that gilbert how did you know that he always used to do that he would twist names up my name by the way it's a curious odd bird my name unscrambles as dan fake porn star Is it really? Yeah. A little bit of fun.

Who got that jam? We just found that one day. Most importantly, you know, fuck the big movie stars and authors you've known. You had a chance to fuck Melanie Griffith. Do what? I heard you had a chance to fuck Melanie Griffith. Where do you get this stuff?

Yes. I think you even said this. You were at a party. Yeah. And Melanie Griffith was coming on to you. Or Andy Griffith. That was later. We'll take either one.

Yeah, we switched that night. At the risk of your image of me going all to hell, who is Melanie Gorphus? No, Melanie Griffith, Tippy Hedron's daughter, the actress. Oh, oh, Melanie Griffith. Yes, sir. There's also like ear muffs. Uh-huh. I regret with a pyramid.

Oh, Lord. Wait a minute. Pyramid is an anagram for Army Dip. Very good. Oh, excellent. Very good. That's the way it happens. Oh, God. I got tired of being asked who is the worst guest you ever had, and certainly who's the best.

And I decided to give Spiro Agnew the honor. for a press thing What does this have to do with Melanie Gryph? He's changing the subject. I'd love to know. Here's what they did to me. What they did to me was they booked Spiro Agnew on the show.

And they said he'll, you know, he seems kind of dry, but they said he's got some ideas of amusement. And apparently he asked, for a, or someone with him asked for a blackboard or a whiteboard or something and they stuck up on it caricatures

of Spiro Agnew which were current at the time. He was new. And they said he'll have interesting and amusing things to say about them. Some bell warned me. So they wheel out the blackboard

or whatever and they have eight caricatures, her block and I don't know, maybe I don't know who all day. David Levine, maybe. Levine, probably. I think even Hirschfeld that one.

So we got to the first one and I said here's the first one. They focused on it. He said, yeah. I thought, I was like to bail people out when they've blanked. And I said, and then this next one

is rather amusing. He said, yeah, I think so. I reached for my gun. We got it's the third one. And it was just hopeless, hopeless. He would try to be, oh, I remember he said, maybe this will work. I noticed that her block does your eyes as just a slit like that,

which is pretty much what his eyes would. And he said, yes, that's the way he does it. so he was a riveting guest Spiro Agnew Yeah My regret is That less than a minute After the limo

Drove him away I thought grow a penis Oh Oh geez Spiro Agnew Wow Are we still broadcasting Yes

And Gorvidal said Well it could also be Grow a spine But yours is better See, I would think among the worst Cavett shows You would consider the Gazara Cassavetti's debacle I was just gonna mention that one Oh shit

What was wrong with that? Peter Falk They were all like oh God They were bombed out of their skull That's immortalized on Somewhere on YouTube And somewhere else And the one place that's listed is

Dick Cavett's worst show ever Was it? No, I had much worse. But there it is. All I can remember, after they had... Casavetes came on and then did a full-body fall to the stage. And somebody took one of their guys' shoes off and smelled his feet. And real satire.

And the audience began roaring with laughter. Then they began to pull back going, I saw one woman's face going and she felt sorry for me I said well this is why I never joined her fraternity and that got a hand I didn't think it would those guys they were such a lot

All three of them were bombed, fought two Yeah they were yeah I don't know who was drunk-assed Yeah But it was And afterwards I went backstage and their director was there,

and he had them like three kids being reamed out for their behavior. But you weren't... You sold about 2,000 unbought tickets to every theater where this thing plays. I mean, you have just probably ruined any chances. And they were like this, oh, God. Like little schoolboys.

But you weren't live. You had the option to not run it, to not air that. oh i wouldn't not not run okay they deserved it they were falling on top of each other too like one would hit the ground the other would fall on top of him you can find it online i don't remember who removed whose shoe and smelled his feet but uh oh i also said which amused me but hardly anybody else i just realized these same chairs one week ago today were occupied by alfred lunt Lynn Fontan and Noel Coward.

Nice. And a few people got to do who they were. What was so terrible is like I respected all three of those actors. Yeah, me too. They're all good actors. But to watch them like that, it was like, oh my God, no, don't do this. Or if you have a relative you very much like and one night it gets shit-faced drunk and you're so embarrassed for him. But the director, the movie.

The movie, I think, was husbands. Sounds right. Yes, that sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. I saw Falk in Casavetti's both in later days, and they were so sorry. Oh, they apologized. Oh, well, that's nice.

Yeah. And what else did the director say to them? I'd love to hear. Oh, he was just saying, if anybody had half a desire to see this movie, you killed it. and that sort of thing. I never saw anybody more expertly unselled tickets than you just did. Your show was event viewing for those reasons. I mean, Lily Tomlin's storming off.

Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is I didn't know Lily stormed off. Right. I was watching that one. Yeah. As a kid. She left out of my vision, and that was with... Chad Everett, the Immortal Chad Everett. He insulted her.

And that other guy, what's his name, W.H. Auden? that's right w h imagine this is some strange did he say something like my wife is my favorite animal yes

yes that's my favorite animal yes and she bolt it said to referring to referring to wist and Hugh Arden you don't understand

we poets he said at one point and oh the classic which broke up many distinguished people

was turning to this great poet and said, do you work from life or what? Boy, that's a meclectic booking, Chad Everett and W.H. Auden. I know. I don't know who did that. Auden refused to ever appear in television again, which is a shame. And one of your classic moments is a health expert

who died on your show. Rodell. You gotta be kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, The gods having their usual sense of humor picked of all the types of people

and professions and arts could drop dead by the farm. Purchase the acreage. It would be a health expert. You have to be thankful for things like that because it makes the Kavits show so immortal. People are still talking about it. And how did you realize he was dead?

I think the minute I looked at him the very first moment And thought it, fought it. I mean, I thought, now that's partly because he had been very funny in the half hour. That was his half hour previously. And I had, pardon this, made a mental note to have him back. If not a physical note. And he was funny in his segment.

And he offered me some asparagus. boiled in urine. That's what did it. I had the good taste to say who's. Part of the audience found that amusing. But boy, he, the sound, I'll never forget. I've heard the death rattle in my life.

This was not, I think it was mostly a nasal snorting. Wow. Oh, geez. This guy's dead. Dead, was he livelier than Agnew? Still? Funnier.

Funnier. Certainly funnier. Now, did you, you must have known Zepo somewhat. I never met Zepo, but we spoke for an hour on the phone month. And he was going to come on the show. And somebody said, get Zepo. He is hilarious. And all you could think of is what a stiffy way.

in the movies. But I've told he was really funny. In fact, he said, I've got Mark's brother's stories that nobody has. And it'd be interesting to know if this was before or after Orson, but he said, I need $5,000.

I said, well, you know, a law, we pay maybe it was $3.40 then. $340,000. And he wanted $5,000. When Jack did the show, it was $3.20. country knew that tonight show paid 320 everybody joked about it in fact Peter

Laura Peter Lora Jack said something to him and he said Jack I don't have to hear things like that at these prices

I kind of flattened Jack Jack did a dirty trick one night and I thought But he was nasty in various ways, and certainly the most interesting, fascinating, neurotic, weird, and having the one quality that made him so unforgettable danger. Olivier has it in acting.

Something might got to happen. Jack said, stop me if I told you this on the first show. Jackie Leonard was on. To those who don't know, Jackie Leonard, he was a rather obese comedian, and he was called affectionately Fat Jack. Yeah, and he had a kind of a gruff delivery on. My diet, I lost more than you are. I can't remember any of the others.

But he had a million of them. But the way he worked was you came on and he'd throw a line. I don't you put your glasses on backwards and walk into yourself, and you would have to say something. and then that gave him the next line and the next line from his repertoire. Backstage, just before airtime,

Jack said, Kid, when Fat Jack comes out, I'm not going to do anything. I'll introduce him, of course, but you know how he works. And then you say something and he works off that, then you say something and he works off that. I'm not going to answer him once.

So Jack, poor Fat Jack, A lovely man And it came on and said, well, sometimes in, you could arrive at a damn, laugh, and then he kind of seemed to sense something was up, but he couldn't quite say you're supposed to talk back.

And he got kind of desperate, and you felt sorry for him. Wow. Jack just sat there, thinking, indeed, but not even saying that at the end of a line. And I hoped he would stop it. and then came

I think what he did when he got desperate and was actually perspiring was grab a fact out of life something just to have something to say about something even if you don't know what to do

and he said Jack you know my wife is an acrobat and Jack said she'd have to be oh god and they couldn't go on I told Jack that. A couple years later, he had no memory of that. Cliff Arquette came on drunk one night as Santa Claus.

Jack said I first time I ever saw Santa in the bag, which is rather nice. Very good. Great line. He had some good ones. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal podcast after this. Speaking of Zepo, we had Ron Delsner on the show a couple of months ago who produced Groucho at Carnegie. Oh, yeah, yeah, right.

I've forgotten that. And you were the MC, the opening. I just said the opening, yeah. I was there. Gilbert was there. Yeah. As was Sandy Helberg, who's sitting in the next booth, was there. Were you sitting near Woody and Diane Keaton?

but they were actually they were on the aisle about four rows back and I kept you know it it isn't always good to know someone's there that you know because you tend to go back but um and somebody said to me lately you know you do a banquet and you do something and you do a dinner somewhere and a thing at a school and invariably one aspect of the field fucks up. Audiovisual. Oh, they ran the wrong clip. There's a howl they can't get out of it.

The film comes on upside down and tears. Chris Porterfield said, I've got a collection of 10 audiovisual fuck-ups, and I told that to an audience one night, and they seemed to understand what I was talking about, and then all the mics went out. I said, I didn't do it. But in the book is one of the, is your Times column about that night, and how concerned.

you were when you got to the when you got to Carnegie Hall I nearly chat I came out obviously I came in from outside and outside there were nice kids who had gone to great pains to make up as Harpo and make up as Harpo so I start all over no no just be closer to the mic good evening I'll get hell from my engineer nice to have me back yeah keep pulling me forward as the actress said to the bishop you showed up everybody was dressed as harpo

outside and there were kids dressed as harpo and kids dressed as nobody as gumbo of course Gilbert was dressed as gumbo there were quite a few grouchos and some chikos and some of them didn't even get in it was so

oversold sold out and they seemed content to just outside the building where their hero was. You know, they just, they waited around through the whole show, not hearing any of it. They got to see Groucho come out and get in the car and they applauded and yelled and stuff.

But when I got there, he looked like a dead man. And I didn't know what to do. It was echoes of the Blue Angel. Something awful is going to happen on that stage. And I asked, I said, would you like to cut the musical number that you and Aaron do? This sent Aaron off like a rocket. I'll bet. No, that is not going to be cut.

It was her moment. But I didn't think he was going to get, be able to take the steps to the mic, let alone the stage. But nothing mattered. just were so happy that he was there. Did I say, um, by the way, they were supposed to pay me for that.

I didn't even know that. And they never had. You never got paid? Never got paid. Now, we're breaking news. What can you tell us about Aaron Fleming? Very little in case there are adults listening.

Oh. Children okay. No, but seriously. Folks, uh, Aaron was a highly ambitious. just not unintelligent, pretty as she looked like Vivian Lee at that time. I was about to do a vulgar joke.

She looked like Vivian Lee. She was a Canadian, and she met Groucho at a time in his life when he needed somebody, and he would walk his dog in his neighborhood, hoping someone would invite him into dinner. if he was so lonely and think of how many people would have volunteered Of course, that they'd known it was Groucho Marx.

Right. Yeah, one day, the tour bus, those infernal tour buses that plagued the stars stopped in front of Groucho's house and there was a man doing the roses out front and fertilize the rows and something like them.

And the jackass tour bus guy said, I'm going to go out and talk to that man. We're not going to see Groucho, but we can see someone who works for him. And he took his mic out and the guy's down like this with a hat down. And he says, tell me, sir,

is your boss, Groucho, a nice man? And the man under the hat said, he's saying he is. He lets me. sleep with his wife and the tour people the Christian church ladies on the bus it was all broadcast you know into the button

I just love that but Aaron was good and bad like so many of us she got to him at a time in his life when he was fading fast even those are hate her guts and then they're not far to seek

said she did she did do one thing she got she got him to do the Carnegie Hall right he was in bed all day he was depressed and Aaron was a mixed blessing for sure and

remember how fulsomely he thanked her on the Oscars sure sure yeah you were going to at each one point you said in the article you considered spiriting him or snatching him away and sneaking him out a side door.

Yeah. And putting him to, taking him to his hotel and putting him to bed. And when he stepped through those curtains, it nearly tore the house apart. You introduced him and you said, I want to mention some other people who need to be mentioned. Otis B. Dr. Dr. Dr. Riftwood. Rufus Firefly. Yeah. Quincy Adams' Wagstaff. Five of them.

Yeah. Dr. Hackenbush. Yeah. That must have tore the proud of it. of course what else would they do you remember any of this guilt oh yeah and and i remember too around that time afterwards he kind of got in trouble because maybe he was slipping a little and wasn't watching what he was saying yeah and and he was saying like you know i did great at carnegie hall he goes george burns did it he didn't get like uh quarter of the people

that I got and he was insulting these people that were life-long friends of his and he I heard like a lot of people got pissed off at him his first move on that stage was just dump on a violin and said yes I've had enough of Jack Banny yeah he throws down the violin he goes I've had enough of Jack Banny and so has this violin yeah James A.G. In his book on film, probably 50 years ago. I have it. Yeah. You've got to have it. It's a good one. And he talks about Groucho in there and says, I sometimes worry that a lot of people miss Groucho's weirdest curves. And I thought about it. I know what he means.

some of them were in the movies of course and many of them are on what he always called the game show the quiz show on the quiz show but I got one that I saved for humanity I was driving Groucho and Harry Ruby in the back seat Harry Ruby and my wife was in the seat and I could just hear them

and I kept thinking oh God, I have to drive and if I could switch on something that would I just said one gym after another passed in the night and out of recollection but there was one

that really got to me we stopped at the light on sunset 10 o'clock at night I'm taking them both home for their dinner and stopped for a light on sunset sitting there quietly and harry ruby and groucho says that building over there on the corner that's where your son lives and harry ruby said no it isn't groucho he said yeah that building that's

your son's apartment building he said it isn't grouch my son lives on the way over beyond wilshire shaking his head your son doesn't live in that building he said no groucho well that's funny I ran into him last week and he never mentioned not living there

perfect you're not going to get that from very many comedians did he did he know Dick I mean the Carnegie Hall obviously that I mean that must have you know encouraged

him greatly but i mean did he did he understand fully understand the impact i'm not sure marks brothers and and their value their lasting value i hope so you know it's hard to say he did a commercial he did a tonight show monologue one night when it was his week in the off summer thing and it was such thrill to write for him and I got I got so I would do things that weren't jokes

and they were fun to write and you couldn't do them for anybody else in the business and one of them was after a joke but enough of this bridled hilarity he loved that and he killed with it

he loved words and wordplay so much and is it true I heard George Kaufman said the only person he would allow to ad lib in one of his scripts was Groucho. That's true, and he told that on the show one night, and he got a little teary as he said it. Yeah. I loved what you said in Mark's brothers in a nutshell, in a documentary.

Do you remember what you said toward the end of the documentary? You said you felt sorry for him because everybody else got. to have a Groucho Marx, and he was the only person that didn't get to have one. That's not bad. Pretty good. Pretty good. Did I do it right?

You did it right. What's the experts? I've never asked you your favorite Dick Cabot guest, but Gilbert and I will ask you, what's the best Marks Brothers movie? Oh, that I don't know. You know, I saw Groucho first on the quiz show,

You've met your life. And then I saw the movies. And they didn't always, weren't always distributed in Nebraska, but I saw three at least, night at the opera duck soup and something else. My dad was in college,

in the Grand Island Baptist College. So were most of our friends. And he said, when the Marx Brothers first came to town nobody was prepared for it nobody had ever seen or heard anything like it

of course it was animal cracker I know it was the one shot on the Astoria Animal crackers well coconuts first coconuts it was coconuts which certain isn't their best movie but he said it hit people

and they were vulnerable to it in a way he had never seen an audience people literally I'll clean that up. It's okay. I'm going to save that. He said they literally

fell off the chairs. And I said, oh, come on. He said, no, it would be like this. They would be laughing, and they would just go like this, laughing and laughing, and get so far down, they fell off. And he said, it took you several days to get over it. because you were not inoculated for that kind of stuff.

Groucho was proud of, which movie is it where they run downstairs on the ship and hide in the barrels? A monkey business. And we were watching that. And I said, I love that part with the, you're getting the barrels, and the guys are looking around, and you say, never mind the barrels, and go down.

They said, I thought, of that. I thought of that. As if you say, you're kidding, you don't have enough talent to have said that. When did you? Oh, God. They keep pulling my

mic away. Tonight, Auto Light and its three of dealers present Miss Agnes Moorhead in sorry wrong number

I gave myself goose pimples Wasn't Agnes Moorhead one of the actors who came to Nebraska Yes she was Your knowledge it's just Oh well I do my homework dick Yeah funny to think in Lincoln Nebraska I who was a celebrity worshipper And wanted to get into show business

In Lincoln I met Charles Lawton And Cedric Hardwick and Agnes Moorhead And Charles Boyer and Spike Jones and Henry Fonda. And Johnny Carson. A young Johnny Carson. Bob Hope came to town. And my friend Lyle Burke and I

said, this is a trick, you know. They say September 14th. But when you get there, it's a film. And people had had that experience. And I couldn't see it's a film in the ad, but it didn't say it wasn't. And he came. And it was a We went to it and there was a magician and then there was a dove, trained dove act

and then there was an acrobatic dancer and somebody else and a dog juggled. And the curtains closed. And I was saying, God damn. I said, how can they get away with that? I was thinking we were going to see Bob Hope in the flesh.

Nothing between us but air and now shit. and then some music played and people started going back in and we didn't know that intermission wasn't the end of the show oh we went back in and the voice of the blocks went down and the voice and now the star of our show Bob Hope

uh da da da da da thanks for the memory and I remember I went God, there he is as he came on stage. I can still get... You're still getting goosebumps. Yeah. You know...

He brushed Marilyn Maxwell's ass once on stage. And she... She may have been tired of it. I don't know what, but she said, Bob, you're not supposed to do that. And he said, read your contract. But afterwards, I ran... around to the stage door, about 10 steps,

Hope came tripping down the 10 steps to get into the Cadillac with Marilyn and somebody else. And I said, fine show, Bob. I was 9th grade, 8th grade, maybe. And he said, thanks, son. And it just went through me. And I told all my friends the next day how I chatted with Bob Hope the night ago.

It's what you call one of your looking through the looking glass moments. Yeah, and it goes on because now how many years later, coming back from a commercial, you can see me standing up looking into my own wings to see if Bob Hope is actually there because he wasn't going to be

at the beginning. Wonderful. He came out and said, hey, I like to see you working. And I said, do you remember when we first met? He said, no, no. I said, you came to Lincoln, and you were coming down some stairs, and I said, fine show, Bob, and you said, thanks, son.

And he said, was that you? 17 years later, the best part of that is he had been in Lincoln before, and I never believed it, but he liked to play golf on their Hillcrest Country Club. Lincoln had a good golf course. So he'd come to town and rounded up five Republicans, and play golf. And a kid, I hated, saw him on the golf lengths and said. You know, he's pretty funny.

I said, yeah, I know. You saw him, right? Yeah. In this town, yeah. And he had on a flowing Hawaiian shirt. And a snotty little kid, Ralph Lingus, said, Hey, Bob, your slip is showing. Hope said so is your father's and I didn't get it for about a year

you know I don't know why this I was thinking of this when you were talking about the Marx Brothers and the reaction that I read like well Roger Ebert said his father would take him to Mark's brothers because he loved them Good parent. And he said when there was a big laugh, his father would look at him and kind of wink. Like, you see what they got away with there. Oh, yeah, yeah. I love that.

I wonder what are the most got away with lines that. Oh, there are at least two people in public. I'm alleged to be a friend of one. So this time I won't mention who say and say it. again three weeks later on their show and again oh yeah that great groucho line about who are you going to believe

me or your lying eyes they mess the line up it's like it's an art link letter moment I didn't finish my link letter we're going to wrap it up but go ahead we're depressed and down in the mouth and writing for art link letter

all synonyms and it was just hopeless and David Lloyd, the great David Lloyd handed in Tonight's show is dedicated in a way to great comedy teams you know comedy teams like

Burns and Allen, Abbott and Costello Laurel and Hardy Jackie Leonard and and Art managed to inject morphine into it

somehow with his inimitable delivery and he didn't get a laugh it was and I can't even, no one could imitate how badly he did it and so it came out I don't know Adam and Costello and Jackie Leonard

who's so fat that he's a one-man comedy team all by himself Explaining the joke Fantastic Oh, by himself Just set us through the wall

That's one of my favorite columns of yours Because it's about comedy writing Art link lettering Yeah, yeah For years after we said I hope I'm art link lettering this joke But just as a convenient phrase For spelling it out

Art link lettering it So I just want to plug, too, Dick. Our mutual friend Robert Bader helped you basically compile these shows and organize them, and they've been recently donated to the Library of Congress every episode? Bader the Magnificent. We had them here. Yeah, I know. And you know what happened?

After his appearance here, his book sales took a terrific upswing. That's why I'm going to plug yours again. Yeah. Yeah. And can you believe that book? Oh, God. That's scary. He tracked, where he basically tracked down every single live date they ever played.

Yeah, he specialized in their vaudeville years because nobody has. Yes. It's in every credible piece of work and research. He went to Red Oak, Iowa to find the... Every playbill, everything. I think he told me why he was venturing into Nebraska. as he called me and

he didn't know if there'd ever been a Jew in Nebraska he was breaking new but when the crash

came you know Groucho was killed by it yeah he was just wiped out they all were

I guess and he was so depressed and they kept hoping he'd pull out of it maybe he wouldn't there were suicides

of course not in their family luckily, but jeez. Groucho said in the park the pigeons are feeding the people not even necessarily meaning it as a joke. Yeah, I know he took it very hard.

They said Groucho never quite got over. Yeah, that did something to him. Is there a piece in the Marx Brothers in a nutshell where he always carried an orange around in his pocket? Because he was afraid of if there was another crash, if he suddenly around

out of money he would have am i getting this right that he would always have something to eat it sounds authentic did i make this up or dream this well if you did you should make up some more we want to plug robert's book since we're talking about it four of the three musketeers a wild ride and just an exhaustively research book i called that book and there's robert bader in the audience he's read this wonderful book five of the four uh four of them uh i saw him gnashing his

Steve. I finally got it right. And we'll plug Steve Stollier's wonderful book about Groucho, too. Raised eyebrows. Raised eyebrows. For our Marks Brothers listeners who want to read

great stuff about Groucho. Well, that has as much about Aaron and a lot about Aaron. Yes, indeed. Aaron wound up a homeless woman. I heard at one point asking after her years ago,

where is she now? Has she gone back to Canada? They said, no, she's she sort of goes into stores and gets day-old rolls and things to eat. A bag woman almost. Yeah, it's a set, very sad ending. Somehow she got a hold of a gun, and that was it. Yeah.

Yeah, boy. Sad person. She's in a Woody Allen movie, though, so she's immortalized. Oh, everything you want to know about sex. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I got along with Aaron and felt guilty about it some of the time. But she would say, I don't know how I can go on.

Then she'd do something good for him and feel better. Like you said, the good and the bad. Yeah. We have to thank you personally, Dick, and Gilbert knows why. How are you going to do that? Because this show, this show was on live support after one episode. Have we started? No, no, no.

We originally interviewed Erwin Corey. He was our first guest. He was 130. God bless him. But the material, what we recorded, wound up being unusable. Gilbert Dara and I walked to a pizzeria. Or as I call it a pizza store. You want to take it over from here?

Yeah. And I said, before I took a bite out of the slice, I said, all right, well, you know, we tried it, a podcast. We gave it a shot. And it was basically over before it began. And we needed something. And I said, I looked at Dara and I said, you know what will solve this problem? Called it Cavett.

And you did the first show. Yeah. And we had a show. I, I, I, I replaced Erwin Cor. Well, in a matter of speaking. You were older than him. I would, you. I tell you, you were the maiden.

voyage. You know he was a communist. He was, it was like Irwin Corey, when he was at his peak, he was like crazy and mixed up. Yeah. But it was crazy and mixed up funny. And now it

was just crazy and mixed up. But he lopped off the funny. Yeah. Well, bless his hard, he did it for us, but he was not in he was not in fine condition. I used to see him as a kid on this is show business. Honey man. Sullivan and everything. Yeah. Irwin Corey.

So the Dick Cavett episode was the first official episode of this show, and it made us realize that we had a show. You mean I don't have to pay for this bottle of water? That's it. No. That's comp, buddy. That's comp. So I'm going to tell people, too, to get your book, which is brief encounters,

wonderful stories. You even tell the Walter Mathout Tony Curtis story, which we won't make you tell. Oh, yes. That's a corker. That's a good one. That's a good one. But we will make you tell the Benny elevator story as we go out. Tonight?

Yeah. You okay with that? Sure. Or if you'd rather tell the... Your choice. The what? The Mathout Tony Curtis story or the Benny story? Benny stories.

The Melanie Griffith's one you could tell, too, if you want. I'm leaving right now. I don't know where you got this, Gilbert. I was in Hog Heaven getting the job with Jack Parr because I had ever missed a par show, I don't think. And there I was in the Parr office, and here were the familiar people. The old writers would go home, and I stayed for taping.

So I was in Sid Cesar's dressing room and Jack Benny's and Bob Hopes and Carmel Quinn, and, you know, just about everybody. on this night funnily enough I don't remember if it was with Jack or Johnny but it doesn't matter the tonight show finished

people were going out looking for exits who came through the doors they weren't supposed to and some of those people who did that saw an elevator door that was being held open by a page and they got in and that was supposed to be the star elevator and they were supposed to get into the six

others. But they got in there and Jack smartly dressed in his belted burberry said to me are you going home and I said yeah and he got in that elevator so I got in it with him

I think it was seven comments were made to him. To Jack Benny. To Jack Benny by the Hoy-Polloy in the elevator are you still cheap, Mr. Benny.

He'd smile. It's such a lovely, nicest man in show business ever. You know, sort of the opposite of Danny Kay. So, I mean, that's not a real name, I just read that. Somebody else.

Would you still drive the Max well? And you can see him kind of, God, please let this elevator get to the bottom. you got this guy living in a box or something under your house is guarding your money or you don't pay Rochester they got them all in you can only tell this to an audience of a certain age we get to the bottom they rush out to tell their friends

and we step out and I say Mr. Benny do you get a little tired of after all these years, the same old ones. And this lovely man put his hand on my shoulder. And he said, you know, kid, sometimes you just want to tell them to go fuck themselves. I left all the way home. I never get tired of hearing it.

That voice that came out of our radio. Oh, man. Dick, will you come back sometime again and play with us some more? Yeah, how about ten minutes from now? Fine. There's so much, of course. Remind me to tell you that we didn't get to. Yeah.

Not only the greatest coincidence, and they're kind of spooky in my life, but just about anybody's. Okay. Have me back for that. Okay. Okay. Well, there's plenty to ask you about.

But we'll plug the shows. People can go to, if you're lucky enough to be visiting the Library of Congress, they can see all of them. Yeah, that's right. I guess that's an honor, isn't it? Yes, it is. But in the meantime, they can go to YouTube, and I'm going to tell them to watch the Orson-Wells interview, the George Harrison interview, the wonderful. You know what's great is the one you did with Frank Capra, Robert Altman, Bogdanovich, and Mel Brooks. movie makers. A real treat. A real treat.

That's where Capra talked about what a bomb. His great movie of Shangri Love... Yeah, you loved Lost Horizon. Asked him about it. Yeah. And the guy who was coming out of the toilet. Yeah. Capra had gone in to beer or whatever.

This guy comes out. He did that Charlie Chan thing they're showing in there. Just what he needed. Find those episodes because they're through a... And come back and we'll ask you a lot more. Nothing easier. Hey, my friend. Frank and I have often referred to you as the self-interviewing guest.

Well, don't stay home next time. Joy Behar said to me, you have Cavett tonight? I said, yeah, she said, he'll be easy. Yeah, yeah. I wonder why that is. I am easy, I guess. You're the automatic interview. Don't feel confident that I'm going to be on my way to the thing.

You still have those anxiety dreams about showing up and you don't have the cards. You don't know your lines. God, I had a killer about five days ago. I was out somewhere in the country and we were doing a musical of Syranow, which we had done at Yale. And I got there and I got into the wings and I realized, Jesus. I haven't looked at this script in 25-40 years. I don't know one of my lines, and it's my scenes coming up.

Olivier, I asked him if he got that dream, the classic actor's dream. Yeah. We try to grab a script and maybe learn a couple lines and, oh, and you're sweating. And he said, oh, dear boy, I... I come, make my entrance, and I get to the door, and I realize I don't know where I am in what play. And then I open the door, and I think, perhaps it'll come to me, and then there are two more doors.

And I take one, and it's not it. And I take another one, and it's not it. And I can hear the actors out there on stage doing the scene and Ed Libbing, and I can't get to them. And Joan says I wake up screaming. Wow. Wow. Oh, you're a good company there.

How could he not be sure? Well, this has been Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast. Now, Gilbert Gottreys is a double-literate name like Francis Farmer or B. Benedict Erich. Look at a laugh. Or Charlie Chase. I'm here with his co-host is Frank San Antonio Padre, which is like a Spanish way for father. Because, you know, in some families, they have both the father and the mother. And the father is the male member of the family.

and the mother who actually gives birth she gives place to the child if they have if they are lucky enough to have a show Dick is melting into a

I'm not letting a puddle of manners we've had Dick Dick is a way you talk to someone named Richard

If someone's name is Richard, you call them dick. Or if you don't like that person, you refer to them as a dick. But if you like the person, then it's a short for Richard. If you don't like them, you go, you know, like he was a real dick. Thank you, Dick. This is the eighth one. Thank you. It's the eighth one you're in the road.

His head is down on the table. Now that's not nice. Oh, Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia. champ of them all she once swept an admiral clear off his feet the ship's on her hips made his heart skip a beat and now the old boys then commend of the fleet for he went and married lydia i said lydia he said lydia i said lydia i said lydia he said lydia Gilbert Godfried's amazing Colossop Podcast is produced by Dara Godfried and Frank Sontapadre, with audio production by Frank Verde Rosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Phaer, and John Bradley Seals.

Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiades, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.