Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Carol Leifer

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

June's Pride Month celebration continues as GGACP revisits this interview with standup comedian and Emmy-winning writer-producer Carol Leifer. In this episode, Carol joins Gilbert and Frank to talk about early comedy influences Mickey Katz, Allan Sherman and Vaughn Meader, her salad days at The Comic Strip and Catch a Rising Star and scripting unforgettable “Seinfeld” episodes like “The Rye,” “The Lip Reader” and “The Hamptons” (aka “The Ugly Baby.”) Also, Carol dates Paul Reiser, recognizes Ron Perlman, compliments Barry Levinson and opens for the Chairman of the Board. PLUS: Lenny Schultz! “Cool Hand Luke”! The return of “Dummy in the Window”! Gilbert meets Lorne Michaels! And Carol (sort of) meets Jack Nicholson! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Here's another Gilbert and Franks! Here's another Gilbert and Franks! Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host Frank Santopadre and today we're gonna be talking to an old friend of mine from the Comedy Club days and I've known her for years. She's gone on to write seven Oscar telecasts as well as some classic TV shows that you may have heard of. We'd laugh about the old days, talked about everyone from Larry Ragland to Frank Sinatra, and I even got to sing a little day. So enjoy our

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Use promo code Gilbert for free entry now at DraftKings.com. That's DraftKings.com. That's DraftKings.com. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a comedian and Emmy nominated writer of Modern Family, The Larry Sanders Show, Saturday Night Live, and a little obscure show called Seinfeld.

She's also written seven Academy Award telecasts and has worked with comedic geniuses like Larry David, Chris Rock, Gary Shandling, Steve Martin and Gilbert Gottfried. Her career has run the gamut from emceeing at male strip clubs to opening for the legendary Frank Sinatra. Her new book is entitled, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, Lessons from a Life in Comedy. Let's welcome to the show our friend, the very funny, Carol Leifer. Thank you, thank you all. Thank you. Take your seats.

Thank you. Welcome, Carol. How's it going, guys? Good. Thanks for doing it. Now, I think we've met once or twice, haven't we? Oh my God. Gilbert, do you know how far we go back? We literally go back. You know, here's what's so funny about my, you know, reminiscences of you. Most of my, when I picture you, it's literally by the velvet rope at

catch a million times in the late 70s, early 80s. I always think of that's when we spent the most time together. Yeah, it was and what I remember too about those days like in the early days of trying to get on at the clubs, was like the MC would come out and sometimes look around the room and go, oh God, we've got a full crowd still, and there's nobody here. But you know, when I think back, I didn't even,

you know, I forgot about that. Like at the other clubs, the Improv and and the comic strip, there were time slots. You were on at 9.50, then at 10.10, then at 10.30. Like a catch, it was just like free for all, feeding frenzy. The MC would come out and it would be like, ìMaybe youíd be next or maybe youíd be picked three hours from then. I mean, it was crazy. Let's talk about some of the people hanging out in the bar with us. Yes.

Okay. Well, Larry David. Right. Larry David, who you also had to be sure if you were maybe following him, you didn't even know if you were following him, you had to be sort of in the room because he could bolt off the stage at any moment from anything perceived as rude or something with the crowd that he didn't like, he would just bolt, so you had to go on next. Yeah, it's like if someone was like biting their nails or something, it would bother

him and he'd start screaming at them. We talked to Susie Essman, Carol, and she said that one night in the club somebody, he was doing a joke about a bungalow and somebody said what's a bungalow and he walked off the stage. That is exactly the kind of thing that would have irked Larry. Exactly. And of course another unknown comic, Jerry Seinfeld. Yes, although I don't remember him being around Catch a Rising Star that much. He was such a comic strip act and identified with that club and really ran the place.

I think what's so funny about having a long show business career like we all have it that you know what i started at the comic strip when i get the addition with paul writer and rich all the same night in nineteen seventy seven and jerry with the mt you know he was already star there i mean he'd only been doing it a year longer than us but he was already like an empty which is like a big deal and could pass people on the auditions. You know he was really this big maher you know only doing it for a year but um yeah he wasn't really as at catch as much as the other um other people that we know like oh Rita Rudner

was also hanging around then too. And I remember with the comic strip, he had such control over that place that every single comic at the comic strip with their delivery would be like this. Was he bothered by your impression? You've alluded to that in the past. Cause I used to like listen listen sometimes just through the wall, you could hear it.

And I wouldn't even see who was on, but I'd hear, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. What did Jerry ever find? You've done that impression. Did you ever do that on, well, I'm trying to think. You've done your Jerry impression places, right? Oh, yes. Because it's so spot on.

One time on Howard Stern, we called up his answering machine and I spoke as his long-lost son for about an hour until he ran out of time. Oh my God. Who else was in the clubs in those days? Who else was sitting around with Larry and Jerry and who were the names that people might not know, might not be household names? You mean the people who were big then? Yeah, like Gilbert talked about Larry Raglin for about an hour with Bob Saget.

Yes. Gilbert talked about Larry Raglin for about an hour with Bob Saget. Yes, Larry Raglin was a very, you know, he was a very big, you know, entertainer. I mean, like, that was great about performing in nightclubs like we did. It wasn't just a comedy club. It was, you know, singers and Larry was a singing impressionist and as Gilbert knows, you know, we all have our tricks of what makes people respond and you know get big, you know Audience reaction and he went up and sang and did all these and before anyone forgets I won't do the entire thing but I thought I saw a dummy in the window. In the window.

But it was you. But it was you. What is the Dummy in the Window song? Did anybody ever figure out what that meant or what it was about? Was it only known to him? Bob Saget was on this show and he demanded I sing the entire song, which I did. I heard it so many times. And it would kill every single time, right?

I'm lying. Oh, and do you know what? Oh, go ahead. The other thing about people entertaining at the club was that you know pat vennett car was discovered at catch rising star and i have this amazing memory of going online in the going in line on a monday afternoon to get my number to go on

that night a catch rising star and i remember while we're all sitting there in the hot sun waiting to get our number, Pat Benatar breezed into the club because she already was somebody with a name and really on her way to becoming famous, and she just turned to the line and she said, hang in there, guys, it really works. Wow.

You know, like the whole system, like it works for me, so I know it can work for, well, maybe one or two of you, you know, like the whole system, like it worked for me so I know it can work for well maybe one or two of you, you know. But it was like, you know, this whole kind of assembly line of trying to become a comedian and be an entertainer but, you know, I think that was an interesting time too because I think as we all know too, it was really good to follow a singer because they kind of got the audience up and in a good place and you didn't have to compete with anybody else's kind of comedic energy or if it matched

yours or not. And I remember Pat back then, Pat Benetto was like this cute little lounge singer. She was buttoned down and very conservative. And Rick Newman wound up managing her for a while. Yeah. I think after that. Yeah. Yeah, for a really, really long time.

I mean, she just like took off. But then like, remember, oh god, Joni. There was Joni Pelts? Joni Pelts? Right, right, right, right She used to say Don't rain on my parade and

But it was really She was like somebody who you just you know, she captivated the audience, you really just thought it was exciting cause you were always thinking this person could be the next big thing. Every single singer back then and every single club would sing, ìEveryone has its season,

everyone has its time.î It was the time of those kind of songs. Don't cry out loud. Little Miss Melissa Manchester. I remember there was one singer who would only appear at Catch and I think named Bill Marou. What was your name? Bill Marou. Oh, Bill, okay.

He became big. But he used to sing, make me laugh and make me cry. Make me live until I die. That's the way baby tenderly. Let me love you forever I'm so happy that there is someone who give me love in return I don't remember that guy. Did he really, um, like, you know, sing the entire, like, song and people liked it? Yeah, and that was the middle section.

Oh my god. What about, um, Lenny? Lenny Schultz. Oh, Lenny Schultz. Well, I know him, yeah. Yeah, who used to just be like nuts and he'd... Right crazy Did he wear a chicken suit? Lenny Schultz? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And what didn't people in the audience yell out go crazy? Oh, yes. Yes And I think one time he told me he used to travel with a midget and one time He picked the midget up and held

him upside down and jerked him off on stage. Great! Oh my God! That's ahead of his time. Oh my God, well I would have paid to see that and be combined. So Carol, tell us about how you started doing it the first time. Because I think Gilbert, you started at 15. So by the time Carol took the stage for the first time, you'd already been at it.

Yeah, I was already Georgie Jessel. Well you know, I didn't know anything about these clubs, these night clubs, because I was just this college student and i went to school with paul writer in upstate new york in being intent and paul with another city person who knew about the club then he was doing it in high school but he went to side of thing and when we went to college he was like all i'd like to go to this

nightclub and i'd like to go on you know during the summer and you know You know there weren't comedy clubs that are like who's this guy goes with nightclubs like who's this victim moan? Shows up at nightclubs like what is this and then I went and I watched him a catch and you know Paul It's such a natural right from the beginning He was so good at it. And I saw this kind of world of people who like, oh wow, you want to be a comedian? Well, you know, get a number and go on and you're a comedian. And that, you know, I always tease Paul that if I never met him, I don't know if I would

have found that exact route to performing and being a comedian. But it's, you know, it's what I've always loved about stand-up comedy and continue to that, it's not complicated. It's not like if you want to be an actor, you gotta get an agent, you gotta go to classes, and it's like, ah, we're all like, I think, also impatient people, and I like this immediate route to doing what you wanted to do and as you know,

we all know you only get good at doing this by doing it three million times. That's what's so weird about it now because I always think what got me into the business and what kept me there in those early years was out and out stupidity. You didn't realize the amount of work and your chance of making it was one in a zillion. Right. Now, Gilbert, I don't even know how did you hear as a 15-year-old about these nightclubs and was the first one catch? Yeah, I'm curious myself.

I catch, oh, catch hadn't opened yet. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. It's 1942. Yeah, there was like a Chinese linger there or something. He did stand up on the GI bill. I was this kid who would just, I would do imitations of actors I saw on TV and I was joking around

stuff and finally someone said to my sister, you know, there's this place the Bitter End where they have open mic night they called it Hoot Nanny night. And I went there with my two older sisters on the train and I just put my name down on the list and then went on, did mainly imitations. Oh my God, as a 15 year old? Yeah. You didn't really have a comedy act? No, and I was doing like Humphrey Bogart and Boris Karloff showing that even then my act

was really dated. So, and it hasn't gotten any more relevance since then. So, wait a minute, how did they introduce you like, oh, here's a kid who wants to come on. Like, come on kid. Yeah, pretty much. They would just see the name and they'd go, okay, our next performer is so andand-so. Then yeah, then I'd go out and yeah so it was at the bitter end. Wow and how did it go over the first time that you went on? Another thing I think I always say it but it's true I don't know if I did well or if I was too

stupid to know I bombed but maybe I was in that much of a day so I would do it again after that. Right. It's so funny because the first time I went on a catch, I had the perfect spot. David Say was the emcee and I went on fifth. I still remember that. I think I followed somebody who bombed, which was always great because it's only going to be better than somebody bombing. And I went on and you know, I had a pretty practiced five minutes and it killed and then I just came off stage and I said to Paul, I just thought like, wow, okay, so I guess I'll be on the Tonight Show like a week from now. I didn't realize like the next time I went on I went on, I ate it and it was horrible and people were

heckling me and it was like, oh, it's not at all like this first perfect time. It's so funny that way because I know with me it was the same thing. I go on stage, do a great set and then I, well that's it. I'm taking over for Charlie Chaplin as the legendary comedian and then I go on the next night and completely bomb. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you remember your first joke, Carol? Was it, was it, the Trident gum joke was one of your first jokes? Yes, I had a joke about another one, you know, another commercial that's, you know, nobody would remember now. But, you know, Trident gum, they say that four out of

five dentists surveyed recommend sugarless gum. You know, who's this fifth guy? What's he recommending? You know, rock candy and jujubees, you know, or I had always different, you know, maple gargle with maple syrup or whatever, you know, but, but, you know, when I, I have my first five minutes on tape, which is really outrageous that I still have that tape. Yeah. And, you know, I, I listen to it now like it's my daughter doing stand-up, but you know, we know from years of watching Audition Night, you know, if you have something that's pretty practiced and pretty has, you know, one or two okay jokes, you know, the audience would always be with them because they're always rooting for someone who was halfway

seen, you know, and wasn't like a crazy person off the street who came up, you know, and got on audition night. So I always got good feedback right away, as I'm sure you did too, Gilbert, right? Well sometimes I got great feedback. Other times the audience would scream at me and like get their jackets on. Yeah. I think the first time I saw you, Carol, you were doing a bit about Bobby Goldsboro and Richard Harris singing MacArthur Park.

Yes, yes. I did a lot of musical takeoff, things like that. You know, I just, it really, the thing that was so great for me about stand-up right away was that it was like you could take things that you were telling your friends were funny things and like put them on stage and it's like oh and this is what kind of makes up your act. Okay so you know I always tell people we're thinking about going into comedy like it really should be in your wheelhouse already you know this shouldn't be something that you have to really work so hard at that it's uh...

something you want to try to make a living at like you really need to be second nature to do this kind of stuff because um... it it really what that kind of thing and you know to watch paul put his act together at the same time. I'm really impressed, Gilbert, that your sisters brought you, but that you kind of went out on your own with this at such a young age. I always say to people, I don't know if I had been alone if I would ever have the courage to go to these clubs without Paul as know, Paul is my friend there, you know,

experiencing this with me. Now was Paul ever more than just a friend with you? Yes, I dated Paul. Yes, he was my college boyfriend. Just say that like Loris Leachman in Young Frankenstein. He was my boyfriend. There we go. Now You came from a funny family, Carol. I mean, just talk a little bit in the book. It's touching to read about your... Can you describe Paul Reiser in a bit? Oh, God. Did he go, oh, that's good.

That's, uh, oh, yes. Yes. Grab my bolt. Your, your side-fell is much better than your Reiser. Yeah, I know. I could never, I could never quite get the Reiser down. Your Seinfeld is much better than your riser. I could never quite get the riser down. Yeah, I would think he is not easy to get. He's got that shing on him.

I've never seen anyone do Paul Reiser. It's tough. It's a tough one. No. Yeah. But, you know, I grew up, my parents were comedy freaks, really my dad was, because he really had wanted to be a comedic comedian. And so when I grew up, and I think it's really kind of what's sad about kids growing up today

is when I grew up, you were captive to what your parents, to your parents' record player. You know, so I know every word to Fiddler on the Roof as a result, but also to comedy albums. My parents played that 2000 year old man, Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks album, I mean, till it probably was scratched out and we had to get another copy at Corvettes. You know? Corvettes. I had a really good comedy education in the house because they listened to that. They listened to Vaughn Meader, the First Family album.

My dad had these Mickey Katz records, who's Joe Gray's father, who was in Vaudeville. You got to work with Jennifer later, and it's like you know. I did. Boy, Frank, you're on everything. Oh my God. And Mickey would sing, How Much is That Pickle in the Window. He had a Davey Crockett, didn't he he have a Davy Crockett? Didn't he parody the famous Davy Crockett song too? Oh, that's right. That's the one we had. Yeah.

I listened to Mickey Katz and Alan Sherman. I wasn't even Jewish. Yeah. Alan Sherman was, you know, giant, really, really, I mean, at the time. His was Hello, Mother, Hello, Father. My son, the folk singer. But I think we really grew up in a fantastic time because of that, because now, you know,

having a kid of my own, he's not captive at all to what I'm playing in the house. He listens, you know, he's got his own headphones. He listens to whatever he wants, you know? And I think, especially if you grew up with parents with good taste, I look back now and I feel really lucky that I was held captive to whatever they played in the house. I remember back then TV had three stations and it's like you'd watch these shows and you had to watch what was on.

Right. And it's like you'd watch a variety show and in order to see like maybe The Rock Group or Van Churloquis, you had to sit through the other stuff. Yeah, you have to. And you realize that a lot of times the other stuff wasn't that bad. No. And you actually enjoyed it and learned stuff. Yeah, because look at all the great comedians that were on Ed Sullivan and you had to sit

through the guys in tights doing their acrobatic stuff from Poland. And they used to be so many old movies on TV back then they weren't even that old. That's the funny thing. The million dollar movie. Yes. Right, right. And I still remember the theme song from Channel 7 to listen to that, right? Oh sure, with the guy and the director in the chair spinning around in the shot.

Oh yes! It was a 430 movie. With the late night movie it was da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. The syncopated clock. And the channel 7 movie of the week, which I found out years later was a Burt Bacharach score. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Wow. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Very good. And the million dollar movie I think was Tara's theme from Gone with the Wind. Oh yes, yes. Oh right.

Oh and one of the, oh no. This is what we obsess about on the show every week. There was a news that used to use the Coolhand Luke Now we work together among among other things, on a TV show. Oh my God, that's right, The Toast of Manhattan. Yes, which I remember. I remember the song.

Do you remember the song to The Toast of Manhattan? No. Okay. Please regale me. You don't have to ask. It's the toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan. So this must be Sunday, the toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan. And here's our own Freddie. Hey, every Sunday with lots and lots of variety.

It's the toast. I mean, you remember the theme song from a pilot pilot. That is outrageous. I totally know. Wait a second. I remember because it was, you know, I'm like Rain Man with dates. I remember it was the spring of 1982. And so I was already living out in California.

Did they fly you out to be in the Coast of Manhattan, Gilbert? They flew me, Polarizer, out and they, I think we were all staying at like some housing, Bob Nelson. It was Oakwood. I remember that. Yeah. It was Oakwood. I remember that yeah. Yeah, and yes and Yeah, and I remember too I was playing a character on this show who was like some showbiz manager and they said well How do you see him and I said well, he's kind of a middle-aged guy and then

the producers and makeup men got together and this middle-aged guy and then the producers and makeup men got together and this middle-aged guy became like a scene out of The Mummy. I remember that. They put a bald wig on you. I remember that. And all those like glue on like prosthesis. Right, right. Cheeks and chin and neck. what was the premise of it?

And the funny glasses. Oh, yeah. And it was like I would have to come in like three hours before everyone else. Yeah, yeah. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do.

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to decide who the undisputed champions of the world are in the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best players, Messi, Holland, Kane and more are all taking part, and you can watch every match for free on Dazone starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at dazon.com slash fifa. That's d-a-z-n dot com slash fifa. Now Carol, in your book you say that you went you went right up to Barry Levinson and you told him that you loved him in high anxiety and he was flattered and you do you think that helped you get the part? Yes, I do. You know many of the things that I Frank, in my book called How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, I really do think that when you're a true fan of comedy like I am,

I think it always helps to share your enthusiasm with people because people are people and now I've been in the business so long, I've been on the other side where people have auditioned for me and when you tell someone that you really like them in a very small minimal nothing part in a movie and you can recite their lines and all that kind of thing, it definitely has an effect on them. I mean how can it not when you're a fan like that. movie and you can recite their lines and all that kind of thing it definitely has an effect on them you know I mean how can it not when you're a fan like that so I one of my things that I try to tell you know I'm really getting fantastic feedback from very young people about my book and I'm really flattered because I

really do share a lot of these kind of things that I think along the way help you if you want to have not only a career in show business but in anything. Something like that is like tell people when you like them and stuff. It's like don't be afraid to do that kind of thing. Who doesn't love that? It's funny when you mention sitting on the other side of the auditioning process. And the times I've done that and watched people audition, you get a different perspective because when you're auditioning, you just think the other people there are scumbags

making your life difficult. Right, right, exactly. I know. And when you're on the other side, you really see that the thing that always really sells someone to you is when they don't give a shit, you know, when they show up and they do their work and it's not that kind of desperation that I know that I always would bring into most auditions like this anxiety and like, oh God, I really want to get this, you know, and you find that the people who audition and kind of have it, you know, roll anxiety and i don't know if i really like it that that you know when you find that the people who audition and kind of

habit you know well after back i talk to my book actually about you know working at seinfeld and brian crampton coming into audition you know he played him what all the dentists on the dentist on seinfeld and you know he was such a go-to comedy guy which is amazing when you think about how talented he is that he can also play such a dramatic actor so well but you know he would come in and he would know his stuff and he would show up and do it great and he would leave like

it wasn't that kind of thing with me auditioning where the second I leave I'm calling my agent like do you get any feedback? Just people who do their work and can let it go, you know. And what I remember too, watching people audition, and I should really talk, but it's like sometimes a person would walk in and go, oh hello, I'm Joe Smith, I'm going to be auditioning for the part of so and so, and you'd go, oh, you know, I like this guy. He seems like a nice guy. And then when they would act, you know, in quotes.

And it's like, that's when they'd lose all their warmth and everything that you ever liked about them would stop. I love that you went up to Barry Levinson and just told him that you were a fan of something that he wasn't really known for. It was a small part. He was a writer on the Carol Burnett Show and he wrote Injustice for All, which I don't think a lot of people know, the Pacino movie with Valerie Curtin. But he's in high anxiety.

He has this wonderful cameo as the bellhop that stabs Mel Brooks with the rolled-up newspaper So I think we forget to that those people that we're talking to are also fans Who have probably wanted to do that in their careers to other people and and right and um Barry Levinson Used to be in a comedy team with Craig T. Nelson That's right Rudy DeL and Rudy DeLuca. Rudy DeLuca, who's still around. Who's also in high anxiety as the guy with the, as the assassin with the metal teeth. Right.

Yeah. And Craig was in our pilot, the Toast in Manhattan as an actor, and Rudy was one of the producers. Yes. But that's so funny what you were saying about auditioning. You know, the other thing too, like that desperation kind of bleeding through. You know, when I've been on the other side and the people have auditioned and then they audition and they go, would you like to see it another way? It's like, yeah, how about outside? How about you do it out there? I have to tell just a quick story that I'm inspired by what you're saying, Carol. And

I wasn't in the sitcom business very long. I was on a, I was staffed on a show in LA called Lost on Earth that was completely forgettable, except John O'Hurley was on it. Peter from Seinfeld and Stacey Galina was on it, who you worked with on All Right Already. Right, exactly, yes. I wrote an episode with my writing partner and we actually had to sit in on casting. And a gentleman came in, he was an older actor and he walked into the room and I jumped up and I said, oh Ralph Manza. Now he was an obscure, because I'm an idiot savant for this stuff, but he was an obscure character actor that I had recognized from an old episode of Batman from the 60s.

And I made this guy's day. He told me nobody had ever recognized him by name in an audition. That's kind of what I liked about living in LA, you would recognize these people and get to make their day by mentioning their names. He told me he ran home to his wife. He stayed in touch with me for months. Oh my God. Because he said I was the only person that ever recognized him on hundreds of auditions and ever actually bothered to know his name. So it made me feel good. John Herley, who was... John O'Hurley. John O John O Hurley. Yes, mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterman Right. He played Peter was on our show short-lived and and I remember I was on an episode of a USA show called silk stalkings

Where we have Charlie Brill was on that And we had a trap down a killer of course who is for some reason of course in a strip club and we wind up, I'm like fighting with John O'Hurley in the mud wrestling pit. A very nice man by the way. And then we shower together. Me and John O'Hurley, Mr. Peterman, saw each other's dicks. Oh. Well, look at that. Now we've landed on something. But you know, it can work the other way in recognizing someone, okay? Okay, you cannot see someone's dick I moved on from the dick. Okay, so I remember

I was shopping on a street in the village I went into, I still use this luggage called the sports sack, okay? So I walk into the sports sack store and this guy is helping me and he's very nice but he's kind of like, he's very kind of like, you know, manly man, like very kind of hairy and kind of, you know, he's helping me and I'm like, I know this guy from somewhere,

like I know it, I know him and then it kind of finally hits me and I say to him in the sports sector, I said, wait a second, were you in Quest for Fire? And thank God, it was Ron Perlman, you know, the guy who... Oh, sure. But if you say to someone, were you in Quest for Fire? And the answer is no, I wasn't. That's a very bad question to ask. That's hilarious. I heard that actor,

Luis Guzman... Oh, Luis Guzman from... He's in all the... Paul Thomas Anderson movies. He said when they were showing those cavemen commercials, people used to come up to him all the time and go, hey, I love your new commercial. Oh my God. Carol, this is a perfect segue since we're talking about character actors. Oh wait, what happened?

I have to go to the bathroom. Can I pee and come right back? We'll pause it. I swear, I cannot hold it anymore. We'll pause it. We'll pause it and edit it out. What happened I have to go to the bathroom We'll pause it and edit it out. All right. Okay, I'm back. Okay, now this shows our ages here, because when we were getting ready to call you on the podcast, I said, Hey, wait, I got to go pee first. And I ran and peed. And then we were talking to you and Frank said, Oh, I have to pee. And now in the middle of the interview,

you have to pee, proving that none of us are kids. Exactly, exactly. Which leads me to your first sponsorship should definitely be either Flomax or Capitor. Do you know, Carol, that the first person, the first sponsor that approached us when we launched the show was Squatty Potty? Yeah, it was basically a plastic box that you put your feet up on that lifts your legs.

That makes taking a shit easier, scientifically. I know about it because, you know, as a huge Howard Stern know i think you can our character and you know waved about it waved about it and then they became a sponsor and i'm sure they're doing so incredibly well because of howard endorsement which also leads me to i think the funny thing i always laugh gilbert that you do that they play on the stern show constantly

and when you do your uh... rabbi with the fake Hebrew, where to God I lose it. That should be the B side of Dummy in the Window. Carol, because we were talking about character actors and we'll move it along, tell us real quickly the Harry Dean Stanton story from the book, which is wonderful. Oh my God. All right, well, along the lines of telling people that you are a fan of, that you like their work, complimenting their work because you're a true fan, I'm also a big proponent

of being social and so many things have happened over my career really because of a connection meeting someone at a party or some other thing. It's always good to be out and about even if it's not naturally in your DNA to be social like that. I really think you have to kind of develop that skill absolutely to be in show business. So my partner Lori, we're skipping over a whole thing from my college boyfriend to my partner Laurie. Now come back.

Now by partner this means someone you do who's on first base. Yes, no she's my law firm partner. We have a law firm together. I thought it was more like Bud Abbott when you say your partner. Yes, she's my comedy partner. She's kind of really the straight man, and I'm really the, you know, the fall down, the clown, you know. But anyway, so my Harry Dean Stanton story.

So anyway, she is always saying to me, you know, pushing me, say hello to that person. Oh, there's so and so, go over and say hello. And wonderful things have happened as a result of that momentary thing of, oh I don't want to go over and then you go over and it's you know fine so we're at the Paul Simon concert at the Staples Center in LA and I have great seats as a result of being with CAA at the time I mean I have to really say if you can ever be with a big agent, do it

just for the perks of tickets that you can get. And anyway, we're sitting there and Laurie's like, hey, turn around, like a few rows behind us. She says, there's Harry Dean Stanton. And I was like, oh my God. And I turn around and it's Harry Dean Stanton sitting there with Jack Nicholson. And I'm like, oh my God. And Laurie says, go over and say hello. And I'm like, what? She says, remember you had dinner with him? And and I'm like oh my god and Lord says go over and say hello and I'm like what you remember you had dinner with him and it's like oh my god that's right we went we had gone to the Palm restaurant because Richard Belzer had invited he's very good friends with Harry Dean Stanton and he invited Jim Valleley and Jonathan Schmock and Dom Ir wear and a bunch of comic uh... to eat with harry deane and so

you know we had gone to the palm and we had had dinner and it was a you know but we do like not even just a dinner is like a three-hour adventure and drinking and in the middle of the dinner people started chanting mommy could make comedy friends over the years have started to call me at the nickname mommy to be rejected mommy and you know drinking and having a great time and and the way that i could go over and say hello so and let's drop the carriage and i

walk over and i think give me how do you know you know uh... never made carol leaver and uh... he just turns to me and very not, in a welcoming way, just said, no. Like, no, I don't know you. So then I tried, and I wasn't crazy about this, I tried to kind of jog.

Remember I said, remember we had dinner recently at the Palm? It was, you know, Richard Belzer invited me and it was you know which it felt like i mean it was all these comedy guy and and he just heard to be andy another really curtain and not friendly now so i can jack nicholson by the way it it this point just like a three p at

sunday i think i have a knowledge that i'm speaking to the kary deane who's sitting right next to him. So then I get really desperate because I couldn't turn around and just leave then. I'm kind of recounting the entire dinner, almost to the point of talking about the different breads that were in the bread basket on the table at the pond. Nothing's happening. I'm going, remember, people were shouting, mommy, mommy. It's nothing.

He's not turning anything. So finally I had to accept defeat because this is getting ridiculous with the hole I was digging that became even bigger by every passing second. So I just kind of wrap it up by going, well, anyway, Harry Dean just thought I'd come over and say hello. So then I do the 180, turning around, the walk of shame, Laurie's head is bowed down because she could see that this did not go well, and as I'm walking back a hundred yards later in the Staples Center, I hear Harry Dean go, I remember now! And I waved to him a hundred yards away and that was it. What a character he is.

I remember doing a movie called Jack and the Beanstalk and in it was Christopher Lloyd who I've been doing voice work with all these years on Cyber Chase and wait a minute which Christopher Lloyd the director final tab or the oh no for the actor uh yeah back to the future back to the future and oh right right sorry I'm thinking of right Chris Lloyd the comedy so we went to the two main voices on Cyberase for years and then the other person in the movie was Katie Sagal from Married with Children who I was squeezed into a life raft with in that episode and so I was happy to see the two of them and I went over to the two of them, neither one of them, I mean you'd think I wandered in off the street.

You're not the only one, Carol. Right, right. But is that like the worst moment ever where you go over and you expect a somewhat, you know, even just a polite reception if they don't remember you of, oh, hi, how are you? Okay. And then, you know, whatever. And it's like the no, I don't believe. Yes, I remember.

I was- Can you leave? I was expecting at least even a smirk of acknowledgement. Not a hug or anything, but even just like, oh, like that, you know, like a phony smirk. Right, yeah. But nothing, yeah. No, it's hard. Right. Yeah. But nothing. Yeah. No, it's hard.

It's hard to brave that. Carol, we have to get, we'll get to Seinfeld as soon as we can, but let's talk real quickly about Saturday Night Live because neither you or Gilbert had a particularly memorable experience on that show. Right. Yes. Yes. You were there for one season, the Lawrence first season back in 85? It was Lawrence first season back after Dick Ebersole, yes, handed over the reins

again to Lauren and you know people are always like what year did you work and I always kind of call it the weird year because it had the strangest cast ever with you know Randy Quaid and Robert Downey Jr. and Joan Cusack and Lovitz and Dennis Miller and Terry Sweeney. Oh and that guy from Breakfast Club. Anthony Michael Hall. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was such, you know, what I remember so clearly about it too is that, you know, at the end of the

season, you know, SNL is this institution and 40 years and all of that and, you know, that at the end of that year the show almost got canceled. It was that poorly received, you know. So it was really, you know, I'm sure like you, Gilbert, I feel like I would never trade my year there for anything. I mean, because it is, you know, to have worked on this show, I still cherish having gotten the opportunity, even though it was not an easy gig for me. But, you know, it's really wild to look back on, especially when I think back of thinking of writing,

because I saw A. Whitney Brown when I was back at the 40th reunion and stuff, and people smoking in the offices and not having computers to write your sketches on. You'd write them in longhand on a yellow legal pad and hand it over to someone to write your sketches on you'd write them in longhand on it you know yellow legal pad and handed over to someone to write it up for you i mean you know it's just wild and i it's so funny because for years i i felt like this sense of shame like people knew me from this horrible but after a while they totally forget and I get it mixed up like, you know, like cavemen and dinosaurs. Right.

Or Luis Guzman in cavemen. Yes, yes. What were you, 11 episodes? Yeah, yeah, that was pretty much it. And what's funny is I went to the Saturday Night Live 40th celebration. Yes, I saw you there. Yes. And what was interesting, it was the first time I ever met Lorne Michaels. And he shook my hand and I was kind of surprised that he was shaking my hand. He said, well, you're a brick in this wall. Oh, that's kind of nice. Yeah. Wow, that's really amazing.

I mean, I remember when you got SNL, that was really wild to have scored that gig, especially because Gilbert really got to think about. I sucked. They didn't cast a lot of stand-ups. I mean, they put you and Eddie in the cast, well, and Piscoville too, but then they kind of like got rid of the stand-ups and they didn't kind of really come back until like Dana Carvey in that year, you know?

Yeah, it was a very, and with me it was so awful, it was kind of like if in the middle of Beatlemania they got rid of John, Paul, George and Ringo and brought in four other schmucks. They hated us from the start. They did. They did. But you know, it was great at the 40th to see and I should have taken a picture of it when you and Eddie and Tim Kazurinski were all together and kind of hugging each other. It was really nice because you could really see as an outsider that when you share an experience like that, you really are kind of bonded in a way with someone that nobody else knows about.

You could see it all these years later how when you guys were together, how else knows about. And you could see it all these years later how when you guys were together, how familiar it was. And you see people you didn't work with and you still have that connection. So it's all a fraternity that you're all in, really? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Did you get anything on, Carol?

I know you had a rough year. Did you get any sketches on? You know what, Frank, it's really wild to look back now because I did this, they did a video shoot with a few of the writers and I did it with Sarah Silverman and a bunch of other people and Sarah was saying you know she really only had like one sketch on that she got on and you know other writers like Larry David who said he never got anything on like I really got a bunch of stuff on you know like things that I wrote with other people like that black girl was that what didn't eat her back girl yeah we didn't eat your man remember that

I got a sketch on with Tom Hanks and one with Angelica Houston and Dudley Moore. And I look back now, it's like, I can't believe I got fired. Like, I got a lot of shit on. I did it. I did it. And let's see all the people. Like, I was fired from Saturday Night Live. But the other people, like Sarah Silverman. David Tell.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, and Norm MacDonald. Larry David. Oh, I know McDonald Larry David Damon Wayne's yeah, right. I was there that year when he got fired too Because I think he got mad and he was doing some sketches a cop and he for no reason at all played it as gay

Yes Yeah, it wasn't really a good thing to do. If you were looking to get fired, that was the kind of thing one would actually find in the handbook of how to get fired. So you're a writer on a show. It's an iconic show. It's kind of an up and down year. You get a lot of stuff on, but oddly enough, you're let go. And then you go back to stand up, Carol? And then I went back to stand up, yeah. And actually that was, I wasn't too upset about not going back to SNL because when you're on the outs there, when you're kind of not in the main club of whatever year you're there, it's a little bit of a relief because, you know,

when you're in with the in crowd, it's great, but when you're not, you really wanna get as far away from there as you can. So it was a good time for me to concentrate on doing stand-up then, but I'm still, going back to the 40th and you know I am really proud of the writers that I came up with because you know George Meyer was a writer when I was there terrific terrific who's you know just so

much Simpsons and great work and John Swartz welder and Jack Handy and Don Novello and you know I always tease him because Robert Smigel was a they called it an apprentice writer that year and I would always tease him that that meant that he needed to wear goggles safety goggles whenever he was in the writers room but you know to come up and you know the guys from kids in the hall were writers my year. So it was really amazing to really work with that caliber of people that early in my career. I just worked with Schmeigel recently on that night of too many stars. Oh, oh right. Is that, was that last night to that air? Uh, yeah. And he was

there and and his puppet was there. We have to get Robert on the show. Triumph the dog. So Carrie, you went back to stand up and when, help us with the chronology, when did Larry and Jerry call? with the chronology when did Larry and Jerry call? That was in 93 so that was a few years later you know I got the luckiest break of my life in that Seinfeld when Larry and Jerry were hiring writers for the show they never wanted anybody who had written on sitcoms before. They really wanted people who had never done it because as far as Larry was concerned, if you had written sitcoms already, you were kind of corrupted by the system and had a lot of bad rules and guidebooks in your head.

So they asked me to come on the writing staff of Seinfeld. It was amazing because it was also kind of right on the cusp too of it becoming super successful. So it was an amazing, amazing opportunity but the show was still kind of finding its legs. It wasn't the blockbuster yet that it became um probably two years later so it you know it was amazing was season five when you came on yes it's funny to look at the early seinfeld shows seinfeld chronicles yeah at the very beginning and and you see that the characters weren't down yet.

Right yeah yeah well you know I think what is so brilliant about the show and you know everything to do with the show came from Larry and Jerry I mean they were really you know the crux of every episode and every script you know every script that people see on the air went through there. They did a draft of every script but I think what's amazing when you look back on it now is even at the beginning when I wasn't there but the beginning where the ratings were not good at all, the show would have been gone if it aired now. They wouldn't give it the time to breathe and grow like they did back then just because they did. It would

never happen now. So it really is kind of a comet to me in that way because I don't think it could even have existed now. And I remember what was so funny is like knowing Larry from the clubs is when I'd watch Seinfeld and I'd go, Oh, I remember him talking about that happening. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like talking about at SNL when he couldn't take it anymore as a writer and left a message on Dick Ebersol's dancing machine.

Oh yes! You know, saying that he wanted to, well telling him he wanted to quit and then going in on Monday and just trying to ignore that he had quit on Friday. Yeah, he had thought about it. He was a big shot and he told him off and he said I'll never work with you again. Then he thought oh my god I have a job I can walk to work. And that became an episode where George does the same thing. And I remember there was an episode that got changed to Elaine but where Elaine has a boyfriend she can't stand from out of town and she has to get

him to the airport and the alarm didn't go off so she rushes him out and speeds her car to the airport to get rid of him. And I remember Larry one time talking to him and goes, one time I was at this girl and, uh, I had enough and, uh, and she was leaving the next day and I drive it to the airport and, uh, the alarm didn't come off. And, uh, so I was like, hurry, hurry, hurry. Let's, uh, you your bike in the car. They encouraged all of you guys, all the writers, to write from, to draw from your own lives,

as you did with your classic episodes. Well, it really was a great lesson in learning how to be in your life, but also always one step out of your life to try to see the funny situations and You know make them Make them comedy because you know Larry And Jerry were so good at that of just using real things I mean

I knew if I went into pitch that if it was something that had happened in real life and I could point to it as a real story, it definitely had a leg up, you know?" Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Roger Stadium with Go Transit. Thanks to Go Transit's special online e-ticket fairs, a $10 one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel on any weekend day or holiday, anywhere along the Go network. And the weekday group passes offer the same weekday travel flexibility across the network, starting at $30 for two people and up to $60 for a group of five. Buy your online Go pass ahead of the show at Gotransit.com slash tickets. Mom, Mom, did you see my race?

Of course I did, darling. Look, you did your best. You tried. The thing is, it's not about winning. It's about taking part. Next year you might do better. But I did win, Mom. You did?

When it's sunny, make sure you can still see. At Specsavers, get two pairs of glasses from $149 and one can be prescription sunglasses. Hey, the sun won't wait. Visit Specsavers.ca for details, conditions apply. Now, how was it getting stuff submitted there compared to Saturday Night Live? Well, it was really different because as you know Gilbert from SNL, so much of whether

your sketch gets on is determined at the read through, you know, where everybody writes their sketches and then Wednesday afternoon all of the cast is around a giant table with Lauren and whoever the guest host is and then all the sketchers are read aloud and whatever really works there usually gets on or has a good shot of getting on and if you read a sketch and it dies, it probably won't be on that week. So much of it had to do with the read through. As opposed to Seinfeld, we didn't have a classic writers room per se, like on other sitcoms I've worked on.

Seinfeld, it was really you going into Larry and Jerry's office, you know, setting a time to pitch your stories. You know, it had to be one or two sentences, pretty, you know, concise, that would make them laugh right away. And it was, you know, not easy. should have their daddy their desks faced each other they were in the same office yes that that they each other and you know a lot of times are going in with you know

definitely intimidating and you know i picked up and you know larry was uh... impatient or unhappy you know he kind of thing i don't know i can hear that that idea on another show. That was like a big put down. I could see that on another sitcom or whatever, but if you said something like, Elaine thinks the Korean manicurists

are talking about her behind her back in Korean, that would be something that he'd leap out of his seat and go, yes, yes, we're doing that. That's a show. That's a great one. And that was the kind of thing that happened to me in New York all the time. So those are the kind of things or saying George brings a deaf woman with him to a party to lip read his ex-girlfriendís lips from across the room to find out why she broke

up with him. That was right in his wheelhouse, Jerryís wheelhouse. ìYes, thatís it. Weíre doing that.î And then you knew that we can write in his wheelhouse jerry's we'll have yet that they were doing that you know and then you knew that you were kind of on your way to developing a script for the show so it was really you know where fnl was really down to the table read of these kind of things you know type i was all about if larry and jerry signed off an idea that you had been you knew you could go off and start to write your script you know but if you didn't have that if you

didn't have the funny idea right away you were never going to get a script you know and the lip was it the lip reader the episode where Elaine pretends she's heart she's deaf so that she doesn't have to talk to the limo driver that also yeah that also came from your life right Right. This will be perfect to tell you guys because as fellow comics, that idea came from all my years on the road. I always had a car service guy take me to the airport. It would always be at 6 in the morning when you just rolled out of bed. I'd get chatty Cathy, you know, who couldn't stop with like, how's it going this morning? What are you for you? Who

wouldn't stop talking and whatever signals I would give to like, would you please shut the fuck up and just drive? He would never get it. And so when I pitched that, you know, it was great because, you know, Elaine pretends she's deaf so that the car service guy won't talk to her. I mean, obviously I never When I pitched that, you know, it was great because, you know, Elaine pretends she's deaf so that the car service guy won't talk to her. I mean, obviously I never did that, but it's something that I always wanted to do. Now, when you were submitting material to Jerry and Larry, did Jerry ever say to you, No, that's a terrible idea.

You suck and I never want to talk to you again. You have no talent. You know, it was a little subtler than that. It was really more if they weren't responding to your ideas and you could just kind of feel like, ìOh, Iíve been in this office a long time and itís getting near lunch and this is not good, nothingís landing.î I write a lot in my book about how Jerry and Larry, for two guys who also were just stand-up comics before that experience, they were also remarkably good bosses.

I mean they really knew how to run the show well, they were very diplomatic, you know. The thing I loved about Larry as kind of you know more of the boss in terms of show things while Jerry was on stage rehearsing was he was always a straight shooter and you know his personality is very much like that but he was always really diplomatic like there were so many actors who came on the show who would be at the read through and they weren't landing at the read through and they had to be fired and you know most show runners are just big pussies and they get someone else to do it and the person is gone and it's terrible and Larry was always the kind of guy like if they had a fire summit, he would insist on it being him, you know, just to be a nice guy and just say, hey, look, it's not anything personal.

It's just kind of not working. I'll try to get you back on the show with something else. And I always really admired that about him. You forget that Gilbert worked with Larry on a pilot. Oh, my God. Norman's Corner. Yes. And to show you how bad this show was. We all forgot really. Yeah. How awful this show turned out is that when they were pitching Seinfeld and I think Seinfeld

said well it's gonna be written by Larry David and they said isn't he the one that wrote that piece of shit for Gilbert Gottfried? Oh my god now wait a second what network was that for? It was I think Showtime or something. Was it Cinemax? Oh Cinemax! You know better than I do. Was it a Cinemax comedy experiment? Yes, it was one of those experiments. Was there nudity involved in it? There was some nudity. They would call a backdoor pilot, talk about a double meaning.

Gilbert wore a merkin. I remember it. He played a Manhattan newsstand owner. Yes, yes. And you shot the pilot or you didn't shoot it? We shot it, but like I said, they called it a backdoor pilot, meaning it was a special that was like secretly, like we'd like it to be a show. Oh my God. And who directed it it do you remember? Oh

god I forget the director's name. Robert Wise I think. Oh yeah! I'm kidding. I think David Lee. David Lee. Carol Lisp. Ang Lee. It was Ang Lee. Let's talk for just a second about a couple of the great iconic episodes you wrote, The Understudy with Bette Midler, and we talked about the Lip Reader, and my personal favorite episode I think, the Hamptons episode with the Ugly Baby. The Hamptons, the Ugly Baby, yes, which was written with the great Peter Melman. Peter Melman. Yeah, that really... And the Rock the Driver. with the great Peter Melman. Yeah that really, I think the ugly baby idea, pretty

positive was Peter Melman's and then the shrinkage thing came up I think that was a Larry David thing. So you know what was so great about working on the show was all of the, you know, the synergy of so many creative, amazing people that, you know, every episode became ten times more than it started out to be because of all these amazing writers that I worked with. So yeah, you know, I look back on the Hamptons and I always laugh, particularly at one line because, you know, Larry especially never liked pop culture references. I mean, I knew that if you put that in a script, it would pretty much be guaranteed to be gone in the final draft. And I remember Julia came out wearing this big blousy, unattractive sundress and Jerry has this line, he says, and then there's Maude.

I was so happy that Larry never took that out because normally it would have gone, but whenever I watched the episode I was like, thank you Larry for keeping that line. It's so funny because so many things are, I mean, well look at Murphy Brown. You couldn't watch one episode of that now. Yeah. You couldn't watch one episode of that now. Yeah, yeah. It was just constant pop culture references. And then, oh I remember they did actually, and it's funny because it's Seinfeld,

they redid the Sunshine Boys with Peter Falk and Woody Allen. And they threw in a reference where he goes, well I'm gonna go home and watch Seinfeld. I love it. Oh I don't really, I don't remember that. Wow. There's a scene in the Fortune Cookie, the Billy Wilder movie when the guy that's spying on Jack Lemmon says, okay I'm gonna go home and watch Batman, which was a big cultural reference in 1966. And they redid the man that came to dinner for TV and they threw in a reference to Dan Quayle. Oh, yeah. So like a year or two later people are going, what is that?

So Carol, tell us your favorite Seinfeld episode that you wrote and your favorite episode that you didn't write, because I'm curious. Well, I really probably would have to say The Rye is probably my favorite Seinfeld episode. You know, mostly because too, when we shot it, it They'd never spent I think they spent a million dollars on the episode which probably in terms of TV production today is not a lot But it was like a big deal back then and we shot it at the at paramount lot You know to do the snow and the handsome cab right right and the all that kind of stuff Reno the beef Reno which you know, I have a couple of stories about that because it has a big storyline in the rye about what was then called Price Club, which is now Costco,

but I'm still a devoted fan. I love it. And about how you buy too much and you're always left with so much leftover. And it always made me laugh. That giant can you could buy of beefaroni. And then we wanted to use that with Kramer feeds the beefaroni to his horse Rusty, which is my horse at camp. But anyway, Chef Boyardee wouldn't let us use Bifaroni,

so they made us change it to Biferino. Hilarious. And the prop guy gave me that big can as a souvenir when we wrapped shooting, which I kept so proudly until I moved, and a mover thought it was an empty can and threw it out. Broke my heart to read that in the book. I know, that was really a super drag. But I would say that that's probably my favorite episode. And I know it's one of Jerry's favorites,

so that means a lot to me. And I think of the ones that I didn't write that I admire. I mean, and he won an Emmy for it, I think deservedly so. You know, Larry writing that, the contest, you know, the masturbation episode. I mean, you know, there's nothing as brilliant as that. It holds up today like anything else. And you know, it was so edgy and so amazing when that aired. And that to this day, you know, it still never says masturbation in it, you know, the word masturbation or anything like that, that it's so clever and so real and it really, I think, summarizes the brilliance of Larry David. I mean, I really can't say enough

about how much I respect, you know, his talent and what a great person he is. That shot of Kramer coming in and just slamming the money down and saying, I'm out. Absolutely wonderful. My memory of that is that that was the episode that sort of, I could be wrong about this, I mean the show was ascendant, but that that was the episode that really turned it up a notch. Yeah, you know I wasn't there then. But I think it was kind of cumulative. I remember Jerry sending me, I would say emails,

but they weren't around then, just saying, I've noticed people in the Village Voice are talking about Seinfeld in in comments you know like it still had people that were taking to it and we're seeing you know that it was different and funny even though it wasn't tearing up the ratings people you know people were liking it and I think you know I said it earlier but it's amazing that the show stayed on because if it were today, it really would have gotten a quick chance and then it'd be out Well, it's not a who liked it with movies that changed too

They used to be these little movies that would be out for a certain amount of weeks and then they would build and become Blockbusters. Yeah. Yeah. Now on the opening night, they go, okay, didn't make any money, get rid of it. Or they don't even get released at all. They go to DVD or they go to now, I guess, Netflix or... Yeah. And then you went from Seinfeld to another television show that Gilbert and I love, The Larry Sanders Show. And that was a different experience altogether because if I'm not mistaken, it was your first writer's room?

Yeah, it was my first kind of classic sitcom writer's room where, and it's really the way that I kind of still like to work today, where writers kind of write their own drafts. And then that goes to the writer's room, and then everybody kind of rewrites it together, you know, after a table read, which is always fair, like what worked and what didn't work. I think that really showed me kind of the style of sitcom writing that I like now.

I mean, you know, it's funny, when I've worked on sitcoms, you can always tell the comics who became writers versus the writer writers because if we're filming live and a joke doesn't work, all the comics or writers are immediately like, ìGreat, we'll come up with a few different choices because it didn't work.î Where writers can be more precious about it like, ìOh, well, we'll sweeten it in post and all that kind of thing.î Whereas the comics are like, ìIf it didn't work with the audience, we're not keeping it. We're going to come up with something else. I experienced that when I'm on a show and I'll, they'll have a joke in the script and

I say it and it doesn't get a laugh and they go, well, you can make it funny. Yeah, and it's like I kind of already did that. I tried and it didn't work. So yeah, what's the plan B? Can you tell us real quickly about opening for Frank Sinatra, Carol? Oh my God, opening for Frank Sinatra. That really, you know, as long as I've been around, and I can say that because, Gilbert, you might be the person who's been around longer than me. You know, that still is like the high point of all my years in show business, because, you know, I really, I was having a really tough time during that,

you know, it a stand-up. I was getting really shitty gigs. I wasn't doing great. I got this big come-on by this new agent who was like, I'm going to get you three times the money you're making now, much better clubs, you know, come over and work with me and it's going to be blue skies, you know, the whole song and dance. And like, cut to six months later and he's literally booking me at ground round comedy nights on the Jersey turnpike. It was horrible and you know, you're trying to do comedy and people are, you're hearing

squashed peanut shells on the floor and I kept saying this guy, like where are my great gigs? Where's all the stuff you promised me? And he was like, I'm working on Frank, you know? And I'm like, Frank? Frank Stallone? Because like, what is going on here? And lo and behold, like, I get a call, I was working on a cruise ship, and you know in

those days if you were working on a cruise ship, you know, one of your parents croaked or your house burnt down. It was my agent going, I got you opening for Frank Sinatra. He had some weird, strange connection to Jilly Rizzo who was Frank Sinatra's manager and I got to open for him. It really is such a highlight of my life because not only was the crowd amazing and great, but he was such a gentleman. Frank Sinatra was like the classiest, nicest guy.

He would bring me out for a bow after my set, which at that time a lot of celebrities wouldn't even put their opening act on the marquee. I mean, I know this happened to Bill Maher. I won't say who the celebrity was but her talent is supreme. Oh, okay. Nice touch. So there you go. You had a good experience.

And I'll just throw out two names and then we'll let you go. And that's you worked with Bob Hope and Milton Burrell. Yes, I did. Bob Hope had one of his young comedians specials on NBC. And he put me on, you know, I was on the show. But it was very sad because it was really, you know, a little past, I think, where Bob Hope should have been performing because they said, come up with something at the end

that aligns where a joke you can do with Bob. So at the time, I was doing a joke that was like, you know, things are going great. I just made a three-picture deal, you know, two eight-by-tens and one wallet size, you know, a photo mat or whatever. And I did the joke and Bob Hope turned to me and said, well, good for you. You know, like not getting it at all.

I was like, oh. Did you keep the cue cards as a souvenir from the Bob Hope experience? I do have those cue cards, yes. It's wonderful. I'm looking at them right now. But anyway, this was so much fun. Please tell all of your loyal listeners to get my book, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, all these stories and more. Lessons from a Life in Comedy, Kara Leifer.

Kara, we'll have you back another time and we'll talk about all the stuff we didn't get to. I'd love it! We could talk forever! Soupy sales and the Oscars and Jay Leno and Carson and everything else. And Dave Boone and he says hello, by the way. Love Dave Boone. Our mutual friend. So thanks for doing it. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Well, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre.

And this has been another episode of Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast, where we've been talking to acclaimed television writer and comedian and the author of the new book, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, lessons from a life in comedy, try watching it on the internet. The folks behind the Sideshow Network have launched a new YouTube channel called Wait For It. It's got interviews with comedians like Reggie Watts, Todd Glass, Liza Sleischinger. Sleischinger, I've been friends with her for 10 years.

One of the funniest people out there and I still have a hard time with the last name, Liza. Our very own Owen Benjamin, that's me, takes you on a musical journey down internet rabbit holes and much more. You don't have to wait any longer. Just go to youtube.com slash WaitForItComedy. There's no need to wait for it anymore. Because it's here and it's funny. And I love you.

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