Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Charles Fox

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

GGACP celebrates the 40th anniversary of one of Gilbert's favorite comedies, "Zapped!" (released July 23, 1982) with this 2019 interview featuring Grammy and Emmy winning composer Charles Fox. In this episode, Charles looks back on a six-decade career of writing top 40 hits (“Killing Me Softly with His Song,” "Ready to Take a Chance Again") as well as music and themes for TV shows (“Happy Days,” “Wonder Woman”) feature films (“Barbarella,” “9 to 5”) and game shows (“Match Game,” “What’s My Line?”). Also, Charles praises Ernie Kovacs, pens a tune for Burt Reynolds, witnesses the Ed Ames tomahawk incident and remembers friends Neal Hefti, Jerry Goldsmith and Henry Mancini. PLUS: "The Green Slime"! “Love, American Style”! The Charles Fox Singers! And the boys pay loving tribute to Paul Williams! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Dine-in only until 11 a.m. at A&W's in Ontario. TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes An evening with the boys Once is never good enough For something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks Here's another Gilbert and Franks

Here's another Gilbert and Franks Colossal classic Hi, I'm Beverly D'Angelo and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast I'll never I'll never go Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verderosa.

Our guest this week is an Oscar-nominated, Emmy-winning, and Grammy-winning musician, This week is an Oscar-nominated, Emmy-winning and Grammy-winning musician, songwriter, arranger, and conductor, and a composer of some of the most recognizable and admired film and TV scores and TV theme songs of the last six decades. He's created scores and individual songs for over 100 films, including Barbarella, Goodbye Columbus, Victory and Entebbe, Foul Play, 9 to 5, Oh God Book 2, and National Lampoon's European Vacation, just to name a few. And composed music and theme songs for popular TV shows such as ABC's Wide World of

Sports, Love American Style, Monday Night Football, Watch My Line, Match Game, The Bugaloos, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Wonder Woman, The Paper Chase, The Love Boat, co-written with our one-time podcast guest, Paul Williams. With another occasional writing partner, the late Norman Gimbel, he penned the hit song, I Got a Name, Killing Me Softly with his song, I Got a Name, Killing Me Softly with His Song, a number one hit in 1974, and a personal favorite of yours truly, Ready to Take a Chance Again. His songs have been performed by a who's who of popular music, including Roberta Flack, Jim Croce, Johnny Cash, Lena Horne, Johnny Mathis, Barry Manilow, Olivia Newton-John and the Boston Pops, and even Fred Astaire. He's also composed

the music for stage plays, live concerts, and ballets, and conducted symphony orchestras all over the world. And in 2010, he authored a terrific memoir called Killing Me Softly, My Life in Music. Please welcome one of our favorite composers, a member of the National Songwriters Hall of Fame and a man who promised that he would

do this podcast on the condition that I didn't sing any of his songs. The multi talented Charles Fox. Wait, I think I said that in jest. Where did you get that quote from?

We assumed you had heard him sing. Hey, so guys, thank you very much. I'm very honored to be here. Thank you for the lovely introduction. I think I need to take a vacation. I did so much work. You did a lot, Charles. It's dizzying.

Before our listeners, some of our crazed listeners, are going to get angry that we left out your most important credit. Which was that? The green slime. Had I known you would put that up, I would have said, could you sing one of my songs instead?

Truth be told, I told him the section from the book where you said the green slime followed you around for decades. It does. It does. I didn't write any music for that at all. It was my first, well, first opportunity to make some extra money, if you want to know the truth, going back years ago. And I took the job. And it turned out that all i had to do was help them to find existing music and cut into the picture and i took the job and i uh why

are we talking about the green it was a throwaway joke really yeah let's call this prologue a japanese sci-fi movie anyway it's a japanese sci-fi. And first I called the producer back, the director, and I said, you know what? I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't spend the next few weeks cutting someone else's music, canned music. I said, it just goes against me.

And I needed the money, to be honest. Going back 100 years of my career, before I did my first picture. And he convinced me. He said, you know, I'm counting on you. Anyway, so I, before I did my first picture. And he convinced me, he said, you know, I'm counting on you. Anyway, so I said, I'll tell you what, I'll do it under one condition,

which took me a week or two. And you know, when you use that kind of canned music, it was like, all right, you go into your audition, some of the music might be right for a scene. And he said, oh, that sounds pretty good. Let me have about a pound and a half of that music, you know, and a quarter of a pound of this kind of music. And he put it into the picture.

I said, I'll do it under one condition, that you don't put my name on the screen. That was my only condition. And he did not live up to that condition. So it came up with the original Japanese composer, who was hard. And whatever I did, I took demos, and I threw it into the film, whatever.

And for years after that, I could be someplace in the film business, music business, and someone would say, hey, I saw your picture last night, Green Slime. And they said, really? Why did you do that picture? I said, really? Why did you watch that picture? That's the perfect answer. Had you heard of the Green Slime before this, Gilbert? Because'd you do that picture? I said, really? Why'd you watch that picture? That's the perfect answer. Had you heard of the green slime before this, Gilbert?

Because you know every bad horror movie known to man. Yes, yes. He knows them all. Well, don't remind me, okay? Now, years ago, before I even knew you did the music, years ago, I saw the movie Zapped. Oh. With Scott Baio, Willie Ames.

Scatman. Yes, Scatman Crothers and Heather Thomas. Right. Which I thought was going to be, and we'll be discussing this with our next guest. We'll be talking about it later, too. Because this was a TNA teen sex comedy. About telekinesis, right? Yes, yes. It was like kind of a takeoff

on Carrie, but and it was a terrible movie. But I swear to you, I like the music to set. Stayed with him all these years. Really? Well, you know, it's a funny thing because she started with two of my least favorite

brushes where do they go from here but we're good at that practicing scales of hand and can no matter what I promise you

we are going to sing some songs from Zap you're just getting you're just getting even with me now I'll tell you about Zap You're just getting even with me now. I'll tell you about Zapped. I wrote a bunch of songs, and two of them became classics in the Philippines.

Wow. Only in the Philippines. You're big in Manila. Tell me which one. I'll sing it right now. Gotta Believe in Magic? Okay. Okay. I'll... All right now. Gotta Believe in Magic? Okay. Okay.

I'll... All right. I'm ready. Be careful, Charles. Be careful. You want to sing it? Yeah. Take me to your heart. Show me where to start.

Let me play the part of your first love. All the stars are bright Let us make a wish tonight My love Pity those who wait Trust in love to fate Finding out too late that they've lost it. Never let it go. You will never know the ways of love.

Got to believe in magic. Show me how two people find each other in a world that's full of strangers. Got to believe in magic. It's stronger than the moon that shines above. Longer than the moon that shines above. Cause it's magic when two people fall in love. You know what?

I'm so amazed. This is, first of all, I haven't played that in 40 or 50 years. And you are still singing that song? Yes. Yes. I'm afraid to tell you the other song that's in the Philippines. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready. I can't remember. Wait. Don't song? Yes. Yes. I'm afraid to tell you the other song that's in the Philippines. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready.

I can't remember. Wait. Don't say another word. Is it King and Queen? Yes. Okay. Okay. Want me to start?

Come on. I'm ready. I'm ready. I love this. I don't remember it myself. Okay. I don't remember it. Fake it.

Fake what? Okay. Sing along. Okay. Yeah, you do it. Fake it. Okay. Sing a little.

Okay. Yeah, you do it. Where the king and queen of hearts hold me when the music starts. All my dreams come true when I dance with you That's great. Oh, wait. Promise me you're mine tonight

I will wait in line tonight With the lights down low Never let you go Did you dream that we'd dance together In a night that we'd stay forever in a dream that we thought would never end. And it's not my imagination or a part of the orchestration. I just began with the coronation of the orchestration. This began

with the coronation where the king and the queen of hearts I am really amazed. Oh, this is the greatest moment. So for me it is. I, this is the greatest moment. So for me it is.

I will tell you this. Yeah. It's only famous in the Philippines. Until now. Until now. Until we post it on Facebook. You know, this may be the start of big things for me here, you know. I may have a career after this.

In the Philippines, I'm considered the next Charlie Chaplin. I want to tell you something. You can go to the Philippines. Just sing that song. They'll love you there. I think Dara would like you to go to the Philippines. And we're not going to do it now. But when the show ends, we have to do the ending of Zap, which is...

Oh, I won't remember that at all. Ready to get what you got. Oh, I can't remember that at all. Ready to get what you got. Oh, I can't go there. Well, fake it. That one I love. We'll find some other ones for you. It was performed by Plain Jane was the name of this imaginary.

We had two or three different groups, but David Pomerantz sang those two songs, and here's what happened. The movie wasn't a great movie, and it was over in Dunmouth, right? Years later, about four, five, six, seven years later, I went to see David Pomerantz perform a show with David Zippel, the great songwriter, a friend of mine who we've collaborated with. Good writer.

Wonderful writer. And after the show, David Pomerantz comes up to me and says, you do know that those two songs you wrote for me are big hits in the Philippines. I said, how would I know that? I never saw royalties. No one ever mentioned it. So he sent me a video of him singing. And as soon as they played a little bit of an introduction to Gotta Believe in Magic, about 5,000 girls start screaming because they know the song. Since that time, because he's become very famous in the Philippines. They've been trying to get me there too for a while. Amazing.

But every place that I've gone, whether we were on a cruise last year, we were on a love boat cruise, they got me to play the piano and sing some of my songs. All the waiters were Filipino and if I ever mention I give people the Filipino test if they yeah I know if they're really Filipino if they know that song that's hilarious yeah and then they start singing anyway so it was what else about my past do you know this is an interesting thing from the book that I was sharing with Gilbert tell us it was almost destined that you would be a musician because of something called the music bump well did you explain this to our listeners i don't think i explained that to anyone

but i'll tell you the fable story in my family supposedly when i was born i was the middle of three boys the doctor supposedly looked at the young born child that I was and said, there's a bump. That's a music bump on the back of his head. Amazing. And it meant what? It meant the doctor was drunk. But there it is.

I followed what he said. And started playing the piano at age nine. I did, yeah. I did. And Frank and I were both interested is that you used to play in the Catskills. Oh, yeah. You put your first band together.

You know, that's where we all got started. I have so many friends who got started in the Catskills. That's where all the great comics started, you know. Could you tell us some of the comics you worked with? You know, I play the piano. And the first place I played, I was 15 years old, had my first band. And we were pretty thrilled to get a job, you know. And there were other hotels.

There were big hotels. There were 450 hotels in the Catskill Mountains. It was a pretty amazing place. How about that? And some of the biggest comedians in the world, but big bands. You know, they were very beautiful places. They were large.

I played a little place, and we didn't have new entertainment that came in. We had two people who came from Yiddish theater. Harry Steinman being one of them. You know too much about him. And Velma Ravel was the other one. Velma Ravel. Did they go back to vaudeville?

They do. And they used to put on skits. Amazing. And Harry Steinman used to actually put lipstick on, like the old vaudeville theater, with pancake makeup. And they would act out plays and stuff. And I would sit there.

You know, just make up things. The happy Jewish moment, you know. You guys were 15. You probably didn't know what hit you. Well, maybe it's the start of my motion picture career. Anyway, that's where it started for me um i'll tell you who i did work with it was shelly shelly berman yes shelly did a show for me uh we went to we did in florida for six weeks and he was a friend what a funny guy yeah he was a nice man

we we wanted to have him on this show but he had taken the turn for the worse by the time we started. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would have been great, too. But, you know, it's very romantic in the book because you're talking about not only the cat skills. You romanticize it. You know, you were 15, and the world was your oyster. But also the coming of age in New York at that time, and you're describing hanging out at the Blue Note and going to these jazz clubs, and there's a doo-wop group on every corner.

I was explaining it to Gilbert. It must have been great times. It was great times, yeah. It was an innocent time. So you know, the truth is, those days I really wasn't into pop music, rock and roll. I discovered Latin music, and I loved jazz, and I loved classical music. But I wasn't into rock and roll of the 50s. I didn't get depreciated, honestly, until I got to do Happy Days.

And they asked me to, you know, I did a lot of the shows for Gary Marshall, and that was one of them. And that was actually an outgrowth of Love, America, and Stone. When I sat down to write Happy Days, I realized I was not into the 50s. I have to get some background.

So I went out and bought 50s records. And, you know, the 50s was a pretty simple time. I was in... Orem Elvis Presley it was either the blues of 1-6-2-5 chord progression and so the early happy days

was a 1-6-2-5 chord meant to sound like a 50s song that would somehow come back and be a hit, which it turned out to be. Big hit. It became a big hit.

The thing about Happy Days, too, is, as you mentioned, they started with Rock Around the Clock. Yes. So at what point did Miller and Milkis, those guys, came to you and said, we need an original song for this? Well, first of all, it was in Love, America style. They used to have three episodes a week. Oh, yeah, people forget that it came from Love and the Happy Days.

Love and the Happy Days. Yeah, it was always Love, American style. And so that was one of the episodes since ABC decided that they would make a pilot. They thought it would be a good idea. And they decided to shelve it eventually because they thought that the world wasn't ready to revisit the 50s. Yeah, we had Henry here. Told us that. Yeah. So then

finally when American Graffiti came out and that was a big hit, ABC decided to give it a shot and put it on the air. So American Graffiti's theme was Rock Around the Clock. We wrote, Norman Gimbel and I wrote Happy Days song right away for the pilot but they were they thought let's hold it for the end title for the main title just wanted to create that 50s sound that everyone

knows they use rock around the clock so the show was on for a year and it was doing pretty well not great but great enough they gave it a second year. And they realized somehow after a few episodes that Henry Winkler was fast emerging, the star of the show, even though Ronnie was great, Ron Howard. And also, Henry was getting a lot of letters. You know, people really, he was fast becoming the star, a star, actually. And the other thing they said is,

let's try to, we went from a film show to a four camera live right with an audience and gary marshall was you know like one of the funniest men ever and he would warm up the audience and and they they loved the the people and so they decided well if we're going to give it a new look and a new sound we can do after the fans at the store and four cameras let's use our Happy Days theme song at the beginning

and then it all broke open you know we had a top I don't know it was number one record in Europe I know that but it was top five

I think around the country still one of the most beloved theme songs and Gilbert and I got a kick out of the fact that you wrote a Ralph and Patsy you wrote music

for a Ralph and Patsy pilot and a Pinky Tuscadero one? We did. We did. We did spin-offs. They tried to spin it off. Well, Laverne and Shirley was a spin-off. Right.

Yeah. Right. And finally, Mork and Mindy. And you wrote the theme music to Love American Style. Mm-hmm. And also that interstitial music that would play. You know what I did there? We had little vignettes.

Yeah. So on those little vignettes, I treated them like a different classical composer would do that. One time it was Beethoven, one time Chopin, Brahms, and I would just treat them as separate and different musically than the theme itself.

Yeah, those were some of the greatest scores. They were fun. Actually, one other truth. On the 17th, if Arnold Margolin is hearing this, he was a creator. Yeah, I met Arnold at a party a couple years ago. He's a sweet guy. I'm going to see him at a party in a couple weeks. Oh, good. Please give him my best. They're having a Love America Saw reunion at the

Paramount Commissary, which he called me to make sure I'm going to get there. Wow. And so those of us who are around. And Stuart's coming too? I don't know if Stuart's coming. He's in the Midwest. We had him on the show too. We had Stewart. Yeah.

I mean, that's probably the first time I saw the name Charles Fox on my television was Love American style. It probably was the first time, yeah. I know you had done some composing of, well, Wide World of Sports came before that? It came before that. Well, I did Monday Night Football. It came before that, too. Right. The original Monday Night Football one.

The original Monday Night Football. Yeah. Oh, and one movie I recommended on this show was a strange film in black and white. Oh, here we go. Another one of these. Oh, no. This is your friend Larry Pierce.

Oh, well, my friend Larry Pierce is, I'm going to see him for dinner. Oh, he's still around. He's a good boy. I like his stuff. Oh, no, this is your friend Larry Pierce. Oh, well, my friend Larry Pierce, I'm going to see him for dinner. Oh, he's still around. He's a good boy. I like his stuff. Oh, my God. Larry's one of my closest friends. Oh, my God. This starred Martin Sheen, Tony Mocente.

Everybody. Mocente, yeah. Jack Guilford. Oh, what's his name? Bo Bridges. Bo Bridges, yes. And what's his name? Mike Kellan. Bo Bridges, yes. And what's his name? Mike Kellan.

Yeah. Absolutely. Ed McMahon, Brock Peters. You have a fantastic memory for things. My God. Yeah. I'll tell you, this has come up on the show before. Oh, really?

We had a whole episode about the incident, a shorter episode. Yeah, I really like that movie. Well, you should speak to Larry Pierce. We should speak to Larry Pierce. He just came in town, I think, today. We like Goodbye Columbus, too? Well, Larry really is one of my closest friends to this day.

My very first picture in 1967 was of Larry Pierce. And that was the incident. And it was a black and white picture, and it was a very, very fine picture. And it was a picture in black and white of two tough guys, Tony Bizzente and Marty Sheen, terrorizing a subway car.

And it was such a frightening episode. In the 60s, there was a lot of stuff going on in subways. Yeah, sure. And I wrote the score. And it was a hit, but it was also, people were very bothered by it. It wasn't just a sit-back, relaxed picture. You know, it was very intense. My next picture was Barbarella.

That was Dino Laurentiis. Sure. Rajiv Adim. Yeah, sure. Two characters. Dino, Dino Laurentiis, and Rajiv Adim. Well, and actually, that was a really nice situation for me, because that was Bobim. Yeah, sure. Two characters. Dino DeLaRentis and Rajiv Adim. Well, and actually, that was a really nice situation for me because that was Bob Crew.

Yeah. You know, great genius of the record. Of course, Four Seasons. So we wrote a bunch of songs for that, and I did the score, and that was a lot of fun. That was a hit. That was a big hit around the world. And the next picture that I was up for was Goodbye Columbus.

And so when Bob Rilla came out, the people from Paramount came out to see who this young fellow was in New York doing a big film, No One Knew Me, because Bob had got me to do that. So that led to Goodbye Columbus, which was Larry. So I've done a lot of pictures of Larry. But I'll tell you what, in Barbarella, so many memorable things. But I'll tell you what, in Barbarella, so many memorable things. When we were finished with the film, I had to go to France to teach Jane Fonda how to sing the theme of the song. And that was, you know, as a young composer, and she and Vadim, Roger Vadim, lived in a farmhouse. I spent a couple days out there with him in the farmhouse, in France, and teaching her how to sing the song and

he had a red Ferrari and lived a good life and that was the inspiration many years later to get a red Ferrari Really? Were you going to cut a record with her? Jane Fonda? There was some talk of that? We were supposed to do an album

Bob Kerr and I were supposed to go to Saint-Tropez spend the summer and do an album. Yeah. Bob Crew and I were supposed to go to Saint-Tropez, spend the summer, and do an album for Jane Fonda. Amazing. And she decided that she didn't want to sing, you know. Yeah. Barbarella is another movie that's come up on this show. Did you have any direct interaction with De Laurentiis, who's a larger-than-life figure? Very little, to be honest with you.

Very little, yeah. But I worked with Vadim, the director. You know, movies, I work mostly with the directors. Television is an odd thing, but mostly with the producers. The interesting thing about the incident, too, and I read in your book, the way people reacted in movie theaters, that people were actually having negative, in some ways, very emotional negative reactions to the movie.

People were tearing up movie theaters. The incident? Yeah, the incident. Going back to this. Yes, because there was such intensity. to the movie. People were tearing up movie theaters. The incident. Yeah, the incident. Yeah, going back to this. Yes, because there was such intensity. I wouldn't even want to repeat it on the air on this show. But there was such intensity.

These two guys terrorizing couples and individuals. And it finally got to the point where Bo Bridges, and that was, I spoke to Beau recently about that. It was not his first film, but it was Tony Mizzante's first. Not Tony, it was Tony Mizzante's film also. Martin Sheen. Martin Sheen. It was his first film.

Yeah. Everybody's good in it. Everyone is great. Yeah. Very powerful. Very powerful movie. I'll tell you, they shot that on a subway set they built in the Bronx at the, I forget the name of the theater, but it's where Charlie Chapman used to, and I was on the set, and it was just a subway. The Biograph Theater?

Biograph Theater, that was it. And the thing was shaking, and the lights were passing by, so you thought you were moving, and the whole thing was shut right there. It's a wonderful movie, but it's an unsettling movie, and it still holds up all these years It was a screening movie, but it's an unsettling movie. And it still holds up all these years later. It was a screening just last year. That's why we got to talk with Marty Sheen and everyone else was there. And it was honoring Larry, the screening.

And it was part of the Turner Film Classics episode. Gilbert brought it up on a show. We've done so many of these. We used to just talk about favorite movies. And he brought that up one day, and we did a whole show about it. Yeah, that was one of those movies I just caught on TV years ago. Yeah. And it was like, you know,

it hooks you in. The Blu-ray just came out. The Blu-ray just was released. They sent me a copy, yeah. Well, if Larry wants to talk to us, you know, we'd certainly love to. Unfortunately, I don't know the theme song. Yeah, you're in luck.

I didn't write that. No, I didn't write it. No, I didn't. But another nice story in the theme, Sean. You're in luck. I didn't write that. No, I didn't write it. No, I didn't. But another nice story in the book, too, is when you first got out to L.A., I think it was your first day in Hollywood, you met Henry Mancini. You know, Hollywood was a dream.

Kenny Starr, who could have imagined to get out and do big movies in Hollywood? I remember seeing, fantasizing, seeing at a Life magazine with Henry Mancini's story, you know, and that he started off and he was in the army, he played the piccolo, he played the piano,

and he was an arranger and he got to do movies, and of course he was the king of Hollywood, you know. And the nicest man in the world, by the way. So my very first day in Hollywood, I know. And the nicest man in the world, by the way. So my very first day in Hollywood, I came out to Do Good by Columbus. And Paramount sent a limousine for me and my family.

And it was all totally impressive. You know, here we are again, a limousine going to an apartment. The next day I showed up at the studio. And the guard said, go through the studio, find turn right turn in front of the you'll find your parking space and I pull up to my parking space

and to the left of me is Neil Hefty oh we love Neil Hefty and to the right of me is Henry Mancini I thought I had died and gone to heaven between those two guys Neil Hefty was odd couple and had to murder your wife he was a friend too Batman between those two guys. How about that? Neil Hefti was Odd Couple and How to Murder Your Wife. Yeah.

Lots of good stuff. He was a friend, too. Neil was a great guy. Oh, Batman. He was great. Wonderful composer, arranger. We love these guys. And one thing you have in common

with Henry Mancini is like, you've gotten your pass the green slime. And Henry Mancini, I think, made his living early on with these crappy sci-fi films. I don't know that, but everyone gets started. Of course.

He was like this brilliant composer. Totally brilliant, but as nice as he'd be. He came into the commissary. I was there with the music editor and the head of the music department, kind of entertaining me, a new composer in town my very first day in california and henry comes in he says they wave him over come on over here hank i want you to meet someone so we had lunch together and he turns to me after a few minutes and he and he says uh are you in the motion picture academy i said no i'd love to be out

i don't know how it happens he He said, well, you need to have three pictures. How many pictures have you done? I said, well, this is my third. I'm working on it. He said, good. He said, someone has to, you have to have two people sign for you to bring, you can't apply. You have to be invited. He said, so I'll invite you. He said, I'm happy to do that. He said, we need new blood in the Academy. That's great. Wow. He said, do you know anyone else? I said, I'm happy to do this. He said, we need new blood in the academy. That's great. Wow. He said, do you know anyone else? I said, honestly, I don't know anyone. He said, I'll ask Elmer Bernstein. Wow.

Oh, my God. So my first day in Hollywood, I get invited to join the Motion Picture Academy. How about that? Neil Hefti, Elmer Bernstein, and Henry Mancini all at once. And we should give us some context. I mean, you're a kid from New York who used to go to the pier and look out at the ships and hope that one day you would be able to see the world. And dream about doing what I was doing.

You bet. And you're living it at this point. Living the dream. Yeah. But honestly, I still am. Good for you, Charles. Good perspective. And I've had great parents, you know.

They supported this all along. They supported my dream. Yeah. They didn't think it was in any way crazy, like, what are you going? I never heard that. No. I never heard that. Oh, nice. You know, how easy. I mean, look, how many people grew up in the Bronx, middle class

family, and then want to go to Paris to study music? Not a lot of people. But my parents supported that in my dreams. How long were you in Paris with the great Nadia? Two years? Two years.

Two years. Yeah, and in the book, and people can tell our listeners to pick up the book, which again is called Killing Me Softly, My Life in Music. Thank you, yeah. The stories of you and your teacher, your mentor, Nadia. Fair to call her that? I call her Mademoiselle Boulanger. You can call her Nadia because you don't know her.

Yes. Now, here's the thing. A woman, she was 72 years old when I was 18. Yeah. And I came home when I was 21. A woman, a French woman of that age should be called Madame. Yes. Her mother was Madame.

So she was Mademoiselle. I noticed that in the book. So we all called the mademoiselle you know and who else did she teach besides you we were talking outside 40 years before me aaron copeland was the first yeah but people came from around the world and uh some of the you know great composers around the world ailey carter and michelle legrand michelle legrand yes philip glass philip glass i once was talking to Michelle Legrand about that. He said, well, I was there with her for six years or something.

He was also French. He had a leg up on you. He was there anyway. However, wait a second. Michelle Legrand is one of the great. Oh, of course. We just lost him. Yes, we did.

One of the greatest musicians and composers ever. And Quincy Jones. Quincy's a friend. And you know, when I get together with Quincy, we talk about bookbinding. You do. That's nice. We speak a little French also sometimes. I was telling Gilbert, part of the fun of reading the book is you're talking about, I'm a kid who

kept kosher and suddenly I'm in Paris. And there's food everywhere. I didn't know what to do. Suddenly a new world. The first day, we hooked up. I think we were on a chartered flight. A bunch of us went to the summer school Fontainebleau.

It was in the Palace of Fontainebleau. That was Napoleon's summer palace. And built by Francois I. But anyway, I hooked up with some other people going to Paris, part of the school. And we had a week to spend in Paris before the school started at Fontainebleau. So we all kind of stayed together

because no one knew anyone or anything. We walked together. We took a train together. And we had meals together. And I didn't know anything about food that didn't come from my own house, frankly. Right. Corned beef sandwiches, I knew.

And every night I would have steak because I could understand the word steak. All the other things, rabbit, mutton, lamb. Corned beef, anyway. So after a while, it was about a third day, there was steak, ta-ta. And I thought, well, I'll give it a shot day, there was steak tartare. And I thought,

well, I'll give it a shot. That's probably steak with the sauce. It's harder sauce. So I asked for the steak tartare. Well done. Right. Which they rolled out because steak tartare is raw steak.

Right, exactly. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. What happens when 20 extremely athletic Canadians who thrive on competition and won't settle for less than number one

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The Glenlivet. Live original. Please enjoy our products responsibly. And we were talking, because we're both fans of Get Smart, that you wrote a song for one of our guests, Barbara Felden.

Was she here? We had Barbara Felden. Oh, really? She lives a few blocks from here. I didn't write the song. I erased the songs. And that was for Davidid susskind 99. asian 99 yeah we had a song called 899. yeah i found it online it's on youtube is that so yes dan melnick now that was his partner and dan melnick during that recording session put his arm on my shoulder and said, hey kid, it sounds like you could do pictures. I was in a range and I said, I sure would love

to. And then I ended up getting a picture, one of my first pictures for David Susskind. So that was a turning point. You know what, there have been a lot of turning points, I'll be honest. People have asked me that question. Sure.

I got sort of, I guess, I got a lot of starts. And one of my starts was working for Skish Henderson at Tonight Show. Yeah, tell us about that, because there's also a famous Tonight Show episode that falls into that story. Oh, I was there. Yeah. Yes. There's one of the moments, when you see some of the greatest funny moments for Johnny Carson on television. It's an iconic moment.

It's an iconic moment. It's an iconic moment. Ed Ames throwing the tomahawk. And I was with Ed Ames that day. Incredible. And he sang Try to Remember

and one other song. And I did the arrangements. So in the afternoon, you know, the show tapes in the afternoon and we did the show. I did rehearse the band.

And then he played an Indian on Daniel Boone. He was no more an Indian than you or me. But that was who he played the role. I forgot his character. So they wheel out this big backboard of a wooden thing with a kind of a carving or a cutout of an outline of a sheriff,

of a cowboy, and they hand it to Tomahawk. He never threw it, Tomahawk. He said, here, throw it. He said, I don't know how to throw it. So he just naturally pointed the point of it towards the screen, the backdrop, and threw it, and 10 times in a row, it kept bouncing off.

And one of the stagehands came to him and said, here, turn it the other way so that the point is facing you. He threw it once. It stuck in. And they marked the spot. And so he sang us one or two songs. And then they handed him the tomahawk.

He threw it. And he had no idea that he was going to circumcise this cowboy. And you can't see because it's black and white TV. He got all red in the face oh he was so bad and all he wanted to do was get out

and remove this thing and Johnny who's you know comic genius sure he kept you watch it he keeps pulling it back

he tries to make his way over there he's sharpening the two things he's waiting for his line he milked that joke as much as he can milk it and he Carson said to him it's okay you can't hurt him any worse.

First he said, I didn't know you were Jewish. Oh, yes, right. Yes! What did you do with Skitch on the Carson show? I used to do, first of all, themes, original themes, as the show went on the air and off the air. Not the Tonight Show theme. Right, original themes. As the show went on the air and off the air, not the Tonight Show theme, but they play music. I used to write some of those themes.

They'd show them on the air, off the air, for the big band with Doc. Doc was their trumpet player. Right, of course. Later on, I did an album with Doc, actually. A whole album with Doc. And then every now and then, Skitch would do a separate piano arrangement

where he'd play the piano of the band, and I would arrange that for him too. So he really was great. Now, one thing we love on this show, and we've played it a few times, and that's the Nairobi Trio. Oh, yeah. Earlier in your career,

I made a note that you did an arrangement of the Nairobi Trio piece from Ernie Kovacs. You know, as a young arranger, if you're dreaming about being an arranger, all you want to do is write something and hear it. So you can put the notes on paper, but until the trumpets play it back and the saxophones, you have no idea how it's going to sound. The guy who was the head of the jazz band when I was a freshman, maybe a sophomore in high school, we had a fantastic jazz band.

His name was Joel Greenwald, actually. And one day, he was a trumpet player that I knew professionally because he had worked the same place you mentioned, the Catskill Mountains. He had been in that same hotel two years before. And he said to me,

well, if you want to write something for the big band, we'll play it. And so... he said to me well if you want to write something for the big band we'll play it and so that makes Gilbert so happy we're picturing the chimps so the chimps what I loved about that there was if you remember

people who remember there were three gorillas yeah oh they three gorillas. Yeah. Oh, they were gorillas. And this, you remember, I'm sure. Yes. Oh, yeah. And while this music was playing, the three gorillas were standing, and one gorilla had a big stack of blocks,

which one by one he would pass to the guy in the middle. And he'd pass block after block and the third guy just stood. Didn't do anything. That was the whole bit. And then one had like a drumstick or something that he would hit the other one on the head with. That was Ernie Kovacs, right?

Yeah, that was his show. He was a comic genius. 100 years this year of Ernie Kovacs' birth. Wow. Yeah. I would say he would have been 100, but that's unlikely. I love your career at that point, too, because you're bouncing around and you're doing so many interesting things.

You did commercials. You did the Parker Brothers commercials. I did a lot of commercials, yeah. Yeah, and White Owl Cigars. When the values go up, up, up, and the prices go down, down, down, Robin Hall in season will show you the reason. Low overhead, low overhead.

Yay! Oh, man. Hilarious, Charles. I think I'm going of regret this hour our listeners are going to eat this up are there any other famous ones like that you remember the white owl you know what I have to

confession honestly I didn't write that song I only arranged it but I arranged it a hundred different ways we had the Christmas thing I don't know I did all the commercials like I think Barry Manilow said in an interview. Oh, he did a lot of jingles. Yeah, because he had a history of writing jingles.

He did, yeah. And that he said, now I can't write a song that's not catchy. Oh, well, that's true. Barry's a great writer. Great writer. Another thing you wrote then that Gilbert and I are interested in, too, is game show music for Goodson and Todman. And I like the story in the book about you, about what a hard sell.

Was it Todman? The other guy. Mark Goodson. No, Todman. Mark Goodson. Todman used to come in to say hello to me. Yeah. They had an office on the Seagram Building on the 30th floor.

They had the whole 30th floor. And there was a big conference room. And I got to do the shows, three or four of the shows. Tell the truth you did and match game and what's my line. Match game. And it would always start off with them, Mark coming out, saying hello to me. And then I'd go into this room to play my little theme. Now if you do something, you make a demo,

you synthesize it, it sounds good. I would just have this little, and it wasn't even 88 keys. It must have been 66 keys. I don't know why. There was plenty of room for a full piano in that room. And I would sit down, and Mark would assemble all of his staff. No pressure. Including Gene Rayburn.

You remember Gene Rayburn? Yes, sure. And he'd bring them all. Come on, let's hear the new theme for the show. And I sit down and in my head I'd hear trumpets

and flutes and piccolos by him. And I would play that through, and Mark would go around. He'd just stand by the piano and lean over this piano, this little upright piano. And his left hand, he had a big cigar, and he'd smoke. And I'd finished this little theme and he turned to each one of the people in the room and say what'd you think what'd you think but no one knew what he thought so no one wanted to say what they thought oh one of those you know

so they would say oh nice beat it's nice rhythm gets catchy whatever they would say and finally mark would turn and to me he said all, let's hear it again. I go back. And some along the way, while I was playing, I would see his foot tapping. And when I see his foot tapping, I knew I had him. You had him. And then I had him. He was a hard sell.

I think Dick DiBartolo was probably in that room. Oh, my God. Because he was a writer on Match Game, Dick DiBartolo was probably in that room. Oh, my God. Because he was a writer on Match Game, and he used to punch a clock in that Sebrams building. And how did Foul Play come about? Well, I did a lot of work for Tom Miller and Eddie Milkus. You know, I did most of their television shows, Happy Days of Vernon Shirley. And they were good friends and wonderful guys. And Foul Play was their second movie

the first one I didn't do it was Henry Mancini actually did that one but Colin Higgins was the writer

sure Harold and Maude Harold and Maude yeah he didn't direct that first one Silver Streak right

it was Arthur Hiller Arthur Hiller yeah it was a terrific movie. Henry, of course, always did a great job. The next picture, he wrote a trilogy. The second was Foul Play, which is a big hit. And the third one never was made.

With Billy Barty. Yeah, Billy Barty's in Foul Play. The third one was the one that never was made. It's called The Man Who Lost Tuesday. Never made it. Oh. And Calvin died not too many years after that. Yeah.

I work with him again with 9 to 5. And he made Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, too. Yes. And actually, I wrote a song for him for Burt Reynolds, which didn't get used, by the way. That's in the book. It's in the book. Yeah, Dolly upstaged you. Yeah, well, it's okay.

Dolly's a great songwriter. Yeah. And she was in the movie. She felt that was a spot. And no complaints, you know. But so when Colin did his first directing, he asked me to do it, the movie. And then I did the remaining pictures with him. And now I got to put you on the spot yet again because that's my job.

Charles, you're a sport. Do I have a choice? No. I want to sing the great song you wrote. Which one is that? Ready to Take a Chance Again. You do? Yes, I do. With you playing, oh my God. He's like he went

to heaven. you remind sorry he'll tell you when to come in I'm giving you a good introduction you remind I'm giving you a good introduction. You remind me I live in a shell. Say from the past, I'm doing okay, but not very well. Me too. Not doing very well. Me too.

Not doing very well. No. No jolts, no surprises. No crisis arises. My life goes along as it should. It's all very nice, but not very good. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. You're living with nothing to show

for it you get what you get when you go for it and I'm ready to take a chance again ready to take a chance

again with you when she left me I'll take a chance again with you. When she left me. He notes the whole thing. In all my despair. I just held on. My hopes were all gone. Till I found you there.

And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. You're living with nothing to show for it You get what you get when you go for it And I'm ready to take a chance again Ready to take a chance again With you With you. With you.

Barry Mantle, eat your heart out, right? You know, we used to sing it on the show, acapella, and I said to Dara, now we'll never get Charles Fox. And now I'm going to say, now we'll never get Barry. Because Charles is here. Barry's a good sport. So you wrote that song. I did. With Norman. Norman Gimbel, yeah.

Great Norman Gimbel. That is a terrific song. Thank you. And that's one of those songs, like a lot of songs that barry manlo made famous with hitch is one of those songs where people don't want to say how much they like the song yeah they know there are these songs that you feel like oh i want to pick something really uh you know something by captain beefheart you know there something by Captain Beefheart. You know, there's an episode my grandson watches.

I think it's a cartoon show at night. It's kind of a hip cartoon show, The Americans or something. I don't know what. That they did a whole episode on these four or five guys that sit around. And they said, yeah, I don't want to sing any Barryman. Which shows do you listen to? Which singers? And they said, Barryman. Yeah, I don't care for his songs oh oh it's family guy family guy yes and uh well how about mandy yeah that's one's not too bad yeah it's just the other songs how about um ready tickets oh i like and they all started singing of course that's cassettes

of barry manlo fan the guy that runs that show. He's got to be. Oh, and then in 10 years. Barry Manilow, I have to say, is one of the nicest men, one of the greatest. If you ever saw his show, you'll never forget it. I've seen his show. I saw him outdoors, Forest Hills. I saw his show, too. I'm a definite Barry Manilow fan. We're fans.

And family guy, then they get like little girls, and they say, oh, we have to see him. And then Barry Mandelow's there singing to Quagmire. Yeah. And he says, you came and you gave without taking, he sings. And Quagmire goes, I would never take from you, Barry. I think when you talk to Seth next again, ask him if he's a Barry Manilow fan. Oh, I'm sure he is.

I'm sure he is because it's turned up a lot. I saw him. He would take out, he never took himself seriously in those live shows. He would take out the accordion and play Lady of Spain, and then he would finish and say, I'd like to see Billy Joel do that. But see, that's what I was talking about.

He's one of those guys, people are embarrassed to say they like his songs, but everybody likes his songs. Not the people

who come to see his shows. Oh my God. Not the people who count. And not the people who buy records. Yeah.

He's one of the greatest entertainers and one of the most popular, successful singers ever. Yeah, I loved his show. Was that a fun film to score? Because it's a comedy, but it's also a Hitchcock Greatest Entertainer is one of the most popular successful singers ever. Yeah, I love T-Show.

Was that a fun film to score? Because it's a comedy, but it's also a Hitchcock homage. You know, I've done a few of those kind of things. I've done a number of movies that are dramatic, and they're sometimes suspenseful, and yet comedy at the same time. Well, like 9 to 5 was a little like that. Sure.

I did a picture called Trench Code, too. Oh, I know that picture. Robert Hayes? Yeah, Robert Hayes. 5 was a little like that. I did a picture called Trench Code too. Oh, I know that picture. Robert Hayes? Yeah, Robert Hayes. But anyway, yes. So I remember talking with Colin Higgins before the picture was shot and the end of the movie was

Goldie Hawn and Chevy Chase make his first movie, trying to get to stop the Pope from being killed. It was just sort of an homage of the man who knew too much

it was it was definitely Colin was very quick to say that he was a real fan of Hitchcock and

so it's going to start with the beginning of the Mikado and then we're going to see we're going to see the Goldie and Chevy trying to get to the opera house

and stop this murder about to happen, but they kept getting stopped by traffic and a singing cowboy star and all kinds of fun stuff, you know, and two Japanese people in a taxi singing Chop Chop something. What was the, it was a famous television show, I don't remember. Kojak, Kojak.

Kojak Chop Chop, you remember that? Right, right. Anyways, and we kept, so I do a piece of music, and then we cut to the opera house. And every time we have to have the opera house more in progress. So we listed five or six or seven pieces that the opera would have to sing. And I went to New York and I recorded the New York City Opera Company

doing those numbers. And then when the picture was finished, I wrote the music that led into each operatic moment so that in the end, the design was at the end of this long 10-minute scene, it would play like one piece of music, mine, and then Arthur Sullivan, then mine, then Sullivan, you know? So that was pretty challenging.

Yeah, I can imagine. It's a good film. Oh, it's a great film. It's a good film. And now I'm going to go back and watch it again and just listen to the music. Yeah. I did have a lot of fun.

Absolutely. He was another one of our former guests. Who's that? Chevy Chase. We had Chevy. In fact, he sang Ready to Take a Chance Again to Chevy. Yeah. So I work with him on the European vacation.

Sure. Sure. Was that Amy Heckerling? I think it was. We had Amy here too. Yes. We're following your career, Charles. What took you so long to get me?

We're stalking you. Since you're talking about, this is a fun story too, since you're talking about how you were pitching in the room to Mark Goodson, the story of you pitching the Love Boat theme to Aaron Spelling. That was unique. I've told that story many times. It's fun. I mean, along the way, when I played new songs for people,

sometimes they had some way to hear it in the room, a cassette machine. Sometimes they had nothing. I had sometimes four or five producers going into my little car, listening to something in my car, and I played themes over the phone for people. Yeah, that's interesting, too. But that particular one, Love Boat,

there was a movie called Love Boat. It was a two-hour movie, and I did a few of them. And then they decided to make it as a series, and I said, it would be great, Aaron, if we got a song. He said, who would you ask? I said, Paul Williams. We just worked together. He's fantastic.

So he said, great. So we wrote a song, and I made a demo, a proper demo, with singers and band. And I brought it into Aaron's office for him to hear the demo. And I walked in. He kind of rubbed his two hands together like and sang gleefully, oh, boy, where'd you bring me? Because I'd worked with him before. Yeah.

I said, I think we have a good song, Aaron. So do you have a tape machine I could play the demo? And he looked around the room and he said, no, we do you have a tape machine I could play to the demo? And he looked around the room and he said, no, we don't have a tape machine here. I said, okay. Why do they have a tape machine? Tell them it's your producer's office. I said, no problem. A cassette machine.

I came prepared. I said, a cassette machine would be fine. He got on the horn with the secretary and he said, could you bring in a cassette machine? She said, I'll have to find one. She came back a few minutes later and said, I'm sorry, Mr. Spelling, there's no cassette machine. So I said, look, Aaron, we're on the lot of 20th Century Foxes, pianos all over. I used to go to Mel Brooks' office sometimes to play songs for Goldie Hawn for that movie that I did with the Dutchess and the Dirtwater Fox.

Good movie. And I wrote with Sammy Kahn. Yeah. And I said, so Kahn. Yeah. And I said, so there's pianos all over. She said, all right, let me check with my secretary. She came back a few minutes later and said, I'm sorry, Mr. Spelman, there's no pianos available. So I look at him and I kind of shrug my shoulder.

Where do we go now? And he looked at me and I said, all right, Aaron, here goes. Love. Exc exciting and do. Come aboard. We all welcome you, the love boat. And that's how I sang the song. He just sang it to him right there. I could tell he was snapping my fingers.

Snapping your fingers. And you sold it with no music. And you know what he said? What? I like it. I think he owed you that at that point. I like it. That think he owed you that at that point. I like it. That was a unique story.

That never happened to me. Talk about working with Paul. Paul's been on this show. We all adore him. We were talking about him outside. You did One on One first, the Robbie Benson movie. We did a bunch of songs for One on One. Paul's wonderful. I love Paul. He's a gent. I love him as a creative person. I told you, I think, before, I was a fan of his

before we ever got to work together. We're good friends, and I love him, and we have fun working together. And actually, I just got to tomorrow. Tomorrow, not literally, but we have written a new song together for a movie coming out. It'll be out in October. It's an HBO picture.

Exciting. But it'll be in theaters first. And it's a documentary picture called The Bronx, USA. And we wrote a song called The Bronx. And Robert Klein sang it. Oh, great. He sang it. He's in the picture.

Interviews a lot of people from the Bronx, including me. Including Colin Powell, by the way, from the Bronx. Yes. And other people. And then we needed, Paul wrote a rap lyric that I asked him to do and he was great and we got

Donald Webber Jr. who was who right now is playing Burr in Hamilton but he actually he was Hamilton on Broadway here for a while

and then I said I also need a background group like the like the like the you know like the

Four Seasons Frankie Valli's group. And anyway, we ended up with the cast of... Hamilton. No. Oh. Jersey Boys. I said I need a group like the Jersey Boys. Right.

I was still on Hamilton. Yeah. So we got the four guys from Jersey Boys. So they sang. So that's this record that we have. So then they went out to the streets of New York on the east side, Bronx, and they shot all the people and the singers and everything on the streets of the Bronx. And it's a lot of fun.

So that's the opening of the movie. And the end of the movie, the song we wrote, Da Bronx, we had everyone, the whole cast on stage with the band, with myself and the piano playing this as an end title. So Paul and I are very excited. Great that you guys are working together.

Yeah. When he was on the show, I was singing his songs to him in his voice. In his voice? Yes. Why are there so many songs about

rainbows he's doing a Paul impression to Paul I love those songs I mean not only

we've only just begun but even some of the lesser known ones like won't last a day without you I don't know how

lesser known that is it's a big hit song yeah but and oh we had a hit together though called My Fair Share. Yes. Seals and Crofts. Seals and Crofts.

The one I always liked of his, and I sang it to him there, was Nice to Be Around. Nice to Be Around from Cinderella Liberty. Yeah. That was a beautiful song. That was John Williams' music. Yeah. Beautiful song. But we started to work together.

We've been friends ever since. And he's great. He's a giant. Yeah. He really is. Not only that, but he's been the president of ASCAP. Yep. He does a lot for songwriters. We should point that out.

And very nice. He's done a lot for songwriters for music. Absolutely. He came to the screening of my documentary, and afterwards he threw his arms around me and said i love you even more no and he took us to a nice lunch yes you me and terrific guy let's talk about norman your collaborations with with norman gimble and and and these three wonderful songs that charted uh the croce song i got a name and Me Softly, which we have to talk about.

Jim Croce's song. We did a picture called The Last American Hero with Jeff Bridges. Yeah, I know the picture. And we wrote the song. And we were kind of late in getting the song going with the film. So over the phone, we called Jim Croce, which is kind of unusual. He usually sent a demo. We called him, and he heard the song over the phone

and said he would sing it. So I got his key. I still hadn't met him. I got his key by listening to his record. He had a new song coming up on the charts called Operator. Sure. And he was a new, really not that well-known singer yet, before any of his hits.

Operator just coming up on the charts, and we thought his voice not only matched our song, but matched the character, Jeff Bridges' character in the film. So I got his key by just listening to some of his records. I made a big record, orchestral background, strings and everything, at 20th Century Fox Soundstage in Hollywood.

And I brought it with me to work with Jim. And when I got to meet him for the first time in his producer's office, he said, let me hear that song. I only heard it on the phone. I knew I'd have to sing it. So I played the song and I sang it for him and he was touched and he said he knew

he'd have to do the song because he knew it reminded him of his father who died before fulfilling his own dreams. And he said, can I play a song for you? I said, sure. So he played a new song he had just written called I Have to Say I Love You in a Song. Love that one. So I always look back on that relationship, two songwriters.

Yeah, it's nice. Playing songs for each other. Many years later, I'll tell you another story. Many years later, Lena Horne was doing her broadway show lena horn broadway and alan bergman one day said to me a great song right and a friend he said if you want to hear a great version of that song i got a name she says go to new york and see lena well i couldn't that, but then she came out to California. I saw her there. And she came out and she started singing Stormy Weather, her signature number. She sang about a minute of that. And then she went right into I Got Her Name. And she did her own interpretation, her own style. And it was fantastic. And she started talking about her father in the song.

And about how he just got it all revved up, and the audience reacted to her by cheering her. They got up and cheering in the middle of the second night, myself included. So I didn't know Lena Horne then, so I didn't go backstage and plan to do that. But the next day, I sent her a bouquet of flowers, and I said, from a grateful composer.

Oh, nice. And she sent me back a letter, which I can pretty well quote because I have it framed. It's in the book. It's in the book, yeah. Actually, I think it's in the book. And it basically says to the composer, my favorite song.

Thank you for writing my favorite song. You don't know how much meaning it has for me because every time I sing it, I think of my father. Isn't that something? So that's the interest. And actually- People connected to it that way. It's interesting, yes.

And a lot of people did, yeah. Connected through... And I've seen him many times since. Roachie was a big talent and, of course, left us early. Yeah, he died way, way, way too young. He was such a... I love those songs. Rapid Roy, the stock...

We talk about how people don't write story songs anymore. He wrote story songs. He wrote a lot of story songs. Rapid Roy, the stock car. We talk about how people don't write story songs anymore. He wrote a lot of story songs. Rapid Roy, that stock car boy. Of course, you don't mess around with Jim. Bad, bad Leroy Brown. Yeah. And the love songs that he wrote. Time in a Bottle doesn't get any more beautiful.

I have to say I love you in a song. It's beautiful. And Frank and I were talking about how Roberta Flack came to sing that. She was flying from Los angeles to cal to new york and uh you know those days 1972 73 people didn't carry walkman didn't have their own music cds and mp3s that we have now so we had this record that was programmed on american airlines and um roberta was was uh with that song and she was flying from los ang. And Roberta was with that song. And she was flying from Los Angeles.

She had just done a concert with Quincy Jones. She was flying home. And she heard that song. And she's a real musician, Roberta. She took a pencil and paper and started to write notes and the lyrics. And she got to New York. She said she listened to it a few times. She called Quincy Jones and said,

Quincy, how do I meet Charles Fox? So Quincy called me. No, she called me, actually. And I was... Quincy gave him numbers of mine where to reach me. And one day I was walking through the Paramount Music Library and someone handed me a telephone and said,

here, this is for you. And I can still remember it in my ear because Roberta Slack said, she had just won the Grammy Award for best record, best song. Oh, first time ever I saw your face. And she said, hi, this is Roberta Slack, and we haven't met, but I'm going to sing your songs.

And I had to take this phone away from me or look at the phone, am I really hearing this right? Anyway, so we met in Quincy Jones' office when she came out to California. And that was the start of it. Yeah. And it's funny. Beautiful piece of work.

They used the song in About a Boy. And it was funny. The way they used it gets back to what we were talking about before. Like the whole thing is, no, he can't sing that. It'll be embarrassing they'll beat him up they'll laugh at him that's and then when he's singing it it looks like oh this is pathetic and then when you grant joins him and does the backup you go wow this is really nice you know uh it was it was a night it was a fun performance of that. We've had probably about

2,000 people record this song. How about that? I was reading an interview with the director of that movie, and he said he chose the song because they needed a song that was so nakedly vulnerable, or so emotionally open, that kids could make fun of him for singing it, but it also

had to be a song that when you really listened to it, was cool. It had to... Speaking about that, Quentin Tarantino made a movie that he used, I got a name in a couple of years ago. I can't think of the name, was it Cowboy Picture? Was it Django Unchained? Django Unchained. And there's a whole moment, like a two minute where Django meets the other guy,

I forget the situation, and the two go riding off together to be partners. And he scored the whole scene with Jim Croce singing that song. And I didn't know it. No one called me to tell me that.

They don't call you, I was going to ask you, they don't call you to get the permission? Sometimes. Sometimes. Well, they do with some songs.

Kill Me Softly, yes. Yes. So I saw Quentin Tarantino at the Oscars that year. And I went over to say hello and to introduce myself because I never met him.

And I thanked him for doing it. I said, I love the way he used my song. He said, oh, that's your song. He said, you know, I found that song listening on YouTube with you singing. Oh, that's right. That clip's online. So I said, well, you made a smart move by asking, getting Jim Croce. But here's the nice thing. I said, you know what? I was going to send you a note to tell you how much I liked you using my song in that picture.

He said, if you send me the note still, I'll keep it. How about that? I wrote him a little letter, yeah. How about that? Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal podcast after this.

I got a quick question about, and we jump all over the place, but the Charles Fox singers, since we were talking about Love American Style, it started out with the Cow Sills. Started with the Cow Sills. They sang Love American Style for me. Right. The second year Paramount asked me to replace them because of business arrangements, whatever

that was. Those days there was the Henry Mancini singers. Right, so you decided there were the... So someone said, someone said, what should we call the group? You can call them tomorrow, I don't know. So I said, we need a name.

He said, well, you had the counselors give it a name. Give it your name. So I said, okay, Charles Fox Singers. He said, well, you had the counselors. Give it a name. Give it your name. So I said, okay, Charles Fox Singers. But the truth is, there was no Charles Fox Singers. Were they the Ron Hicklin singers? Well, Ron Hicklin and his group, his group of guys. Okay. They did most of my shows.

I did a little digging. Yeah, and never take anything away from anyone. Ron is great. His singers are great. They did most of my shows, Wonder Woman, all those things. Sure. Laverne and Shirley.

No, Laverne and Shirley, they didn't do that. That was Cindy Greco. Cindy Greco. See, I promise I won't sing these songs. It's too late for that promise. We're way beyond that now. If we could hear a snippet of some of these great, like, love American style. Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, white, and blue. Love, American style. That's me and you.

And then Sunday, Monday, happy days. Tuesday, Wednesday, happy days. Thursday, Friday, happy days. Saturday, what a day. Rockin' all week with you. Give us any chance, we'll take it. Read us any rule, we'll break it. Read us any rule, we'll break it. We're going to make our dreams come true.

Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman. The love of... Anyway. Oh, my God. I love the way they just go right, flow right into each other. Well, I just did that. It doesn't usually, you know. And actually, I didn't sing the love, I just said the word, but anyway.

Fantastic. That was great. You know, I got a question here. Charles, this is, I asked a couple of musicians, friends of mine. I said, do you have questions for Charles Fox? And my friend Shark, who's a musician in Los Angeles, said, ask him, please ask him if he ever was rushed and wrote something five minutes before he had to play it for the producer or creator of a show.

Most of them went that way. You know what? Just come up right on the spot, under pressure. Honestly, Hollywood works that way. You don't get a whole lot of extra time to do things. Not quite, not quite that. But the truth is you always get up and have to do the work and show it off and present it in a nice light and all that.

And to tell you the truth, with all my movies, I always like to play the whole score for people at the piano. And the director comes to my house and I played the entire, I did a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger. The only movie

he ever directed. Oh, Christmas in Connecticut. Connecticut. Yeah. And when I went to work with him, when I met him the first time,

I went to his office and he said, you know, I'm not going to imitate his voice. You all know how he sounds. He said, you know, I never work with music. I don't know how to work with music. I said, that's great. I said, you know, I'm not going to imitate his voice. You all know how he sounds. He said, you know, I never work with music. I don't know how to work with music.

I said, that's great. I said, let's talk about the picture. Let me worry about the notes. So that made it easier for him. Then he came to my house, and I played the score for him at the piano, and he got it, and he became real astute. He was really smart in terms of hearing things and knowing where music, where it would help, where it wouldn't.

But, I mean, there's always a challenge, but it's simply what I do. I've heard you say one of the thrills of your career is sitting in the theater for the first time and hearing the score or the music come up full and watching everything. Well, not even full. You know, I went to the dubbing sessions of every one of my movies because it wasn't just enough to write the music. I had to get it into the picture at the right level. It could have been loud. It could have been as soft as anything. It's a matter of enhancing the moment of the undercut of the story to what you're trying to bring out, the emotional qualities, the dramatic qualities even. And I always felt that if...

And directors expected me to do that, so I used to go and sit right next to the music mixer on the dubbing stage. And very often I'd move the dials myself, you know, the faders. And so then when it's finally finished... By the way, I didn't always get my way. Sometimes the director wanted a lot of sound effects

that would wipe out the music. But I mean, it's a collaborative business, and the director has the final say. It's just that simple. So you work with the director. Of course. And when I sit in the theater, I hear everything's just at the right level,

whether it had to be full screen, all these parts, a little oboe behind a delicate moment. Yes, it's very satisfying for me. And I'm going to ask you, who are your favorite we talked about Neil Hefty

Henry Mancini you were friends with the great Jerry Goldsmith who were your favorite composers well Jerry was certainly one of

my favorites he was a fantastic composer and a good friend of mine we love those scores Omen

Night of the Apes so I will tell you that when Jerry was sick near the end, when he was still functioning, but he was ill, and he had two concerts. I conducted for him from time to time, not on his recording sessions, but in concerts.

He asked me to do a concert for him. At one time, I was busy finishing one of my ballets, my Zorro ballet, and he called me, and he said he had two concerts coming up, one in England and one in Japan. He loved working at the London Symphony, LSO. And he said he didn't think he could do both that and Japanese concerts. Would I do the Japanese concert for him? So I couldn't say no to Jerry, so I said, of course I would. So in the daytime, I was writing

my music, orchestrating my music at that point. In the evening, I was studying his scores. So when I stand in front of a 100-piece orchestra, I know what the music is. So we actually did the first time ever episode,

Suite of The Omen had a hundred voice chorus and it was the first time it was ever put together and I conducted it in Japan with the Kanagawa Philharmonic in Tokyo and in Yokohama So he would

certainly be on the short list of your favorite film composers. Firstly I think he's one of the greatest composers ever. And I always say about Jerry, he's a great film composer, but more than great, he was a great American composer who devoted his life to film. John Williams is a fantastic composer. There are a lot of...

Michael Giacchino, a young composer. He's been on this show. Has he? Yes, he has. He's a nice guy. He's a good friend, too. Yes, he's... And a charming guy. And he's a lot of Michael Giacchino, the young composer. He's been on this show. Has he? Yes, he has. He's a nice guy. He's a good friend, too. Yes, he's. And a charming guy.

And he's a lot of talent. I told him you were coming on. Did you? Yes, I did. One thing I always think about whenever there's a composer is it's the sign of a bad composer and a bad director, for that matter. When music comes on and I find myself going, okay, I'm supposed to be sad now. I'm supposed to be invigorated.

Do you find yourself going, okay, I got to work against certain, you find- Sometimes you do. Sometimes you play against what's on the scene. Sure, there can be a happy scene between two people talking,

but really what she's thinking about is something else. A little bit of underneath the skin, but really what she's thinking about is something else. A little bit of underneath the skin. You know, she's thinking about a moment they had. So you have that control as a composer. You certainly want to play a design. You have a design for how you're going to treat

the music, and you usually go through it with the director, and it's a very collaborative thing. But there are certainly times that you want to play against the film. If it's a happy moment, you may play sad. If it's a sad moment thing. But there are certainly times that you want to play against the film. If it's a happy moment, you may play sad. If it's a sad moment, you may play it up. It's all a matter of what you're trying to let the audience understand the feel of that moment

as part of the grand design of the film. And I mean, I did a film, it was a television film once with a great director, Lamont Johnson. And it was about a woman who had 200 names 200 alter egos and she had suffered hardly as a child and didn't know that she was called 100 200 voices or something like that thousand voices something it's a true story and the director said to me now know, I want to be very simple

because this woman has these noises in her head. And so just not much music and very sparse, very simple. And I went ahead and I wrote the most busy score I've ever written in my whole life. And he came over to my house. I think I did most of the synthesizer in my studio. And he came to my house and I said, Lamont, I wrote some of the busiest music I ever wrote. I said, but what I played, I played what is in her head. So I wasn't playing what the audience reaction was. I played what this woman was hearing in her head. And he loved it.

So you have to take a chance. Of course. Do what you think is right, you know. I also found it interesting that you don't like themes tv theme songs that explain the show you you prefer something that sets a tone right or creates a context right so i did a show called the paper chase sure john house yeah and um when i went to do the show with him, John Houseman said, so I'm going to start the show with narration. It was like the movie, The Paper Chase.

I'm going to start it with narration where I talk about the kids coming to school and they're going to learn this, they're going to learn that, and they come from different countries, different parts of the United States, and I'm going to make a lawyer out of you. I said, what do you think about putting music behind that? I said, for the main title,

you absolutely should have music behind it. He said, okay. I said, as a matter of fact, I have an idea. Since it's the same narration over and over, I don't want to tell him it's boring, but since it's the same narration over and over, it's the same story every week. I said, why don't we start with the narration

and then we'll go into a song explaining just those feelings about with the feelings of doing something new in your life something frightening something exhilarating what it's like to be a first year law student and then we'll cut we'll see the kids get on buses and trains coming to harvard and when they go into the huge auditorium where you're speaking we'll cut back to you and your narration and And he waited a beat, and he said, you want to cut out my narration? I said, well, you know, the song would really work better.

Anyway, we ended up with a song as I wrote it. And actually, of all my shows, it was the only one that got a lot of awards and nominations, myself included. But it lasted one year. It didn't. But then it went to syndication and he took over and he went back to his narration

oh he changed it in syndication I was thinking in for one of our short episodes we should do all the shows that had theme songs telling the story all the Sherwood Schwartz theme songs I didn't want to say that,

but that's true. Yeah, they all explain the show. Every Miller Boyette was also like that. There were a handful of them. Yeah. Well, I work with

Tom Miller. Those guys are great. I did a song, a show with them. They pretended to be the Hogan family. Yeah, sure. And I wrote a song

that Roberta Flack sang for me. Right. That's a good one. I'll tell you a song I love is the one from the other side of the mountain

Richard's Window Richard's Window beautiful thank you we were nominated for this beautiful piece of music yeah

and a good film it was a very good film well again Larry Pierce directed it and my good friend Ed Feldman was the producer

people should see it I'll tell you a couple things if I may if you want to know about that. Yes. So I did one of the most, I do a lot of varied things, as you know. One of the things I did is very exciting to me.

Recently, I started off my career in Latin music. You may know that. I played. You're Carlos Zorro. I will call it Carlos Zorro. Really, honestly, I want to get accepted by the Latin people. We got a kick out of that. So I found out they thought I was okay anyway.

I didn't have to take the Spanish name. But I did go by that for a while. But I played the Tito Puente. Yes. I played the Ray Barreto and people like that. So last year, I decided after 50 years of not playing Latin music, I want to make another Latin record. Fantastic.

So I was going to record some of the great musicians in New York and L.A. and maybe Puerto Rico and Cuba. And a friend of mine who's Edesio Alejandro is a great Cuban composer. And I told him about that. He mentioned it to the Minister of Culture of Cuba. And I was invited, the Cuban Minister of Culture invited me to come over to Havana to do concerts. So last summer, I did two concerts at the Opera House

with all the fantastic Cuban musicians. Omar Portanto, you know, from the Buena Vista Social Club. Yeah, I love that movie. She sang with me in my concert. And we had 2,000 people each night, and I was back in my happy place, just playing Latin music, all my songs. And actually, it's being made into a film. It's being cut into a motion picture, a documentary film,

this trip to Cuba. Wow. You've got a lot going on. It's something I'm really happy about and proud about. What else? You want to plug the Fulfillment Fund and Songs of Our Lives? Are you still involved with that? Fulfillment Fund is a fantastic organization, mostly in California.

A good friend of mine, Gary Gittnick, started about 33, 34 years ago. It's an organization that helps about 2,500 young students a year from the most disadvantaged parts of Los Angeles and some other places too. It gives them an opportunity to help them through high school into colleges with all kinds of support, scholarships. Yeah, yeah. So about 10 years ago, Gary asked me if, oh, I know what, my wife Joan became a co-president of the Friends of the Fulfillment Fund, a self-auxiliary group, ancillary group. And she asked me if I would do a concert in someone's house one night, just play some of my songs, and maybe they'd raise some money.

So we did. It's quite a bit of money, right? $100,000, something like that, in someone's house, people promising money. $100,000 something in someone's house, people promising money. And Gary Gittnick was not a musician, but he didn't waste a beat and say, what can we do next year?

So I started doing concerts of friends who were songwriters. It's an impressive list. We had everyone. I'm telling you. What I wouldn't have given to see some of those concerts. I'll tell you, here's where we had the very first year. First of all, Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil. We had

Libra and Stoller. Oh, man. Melissa Manchester, Bill Withers, Steve Terrell singing. Sadaka did it, didn't he?

Hal David singing. Yeah. And Alan Bergman. This is all, only the first concert. Amazing. So we've done 10 years where I had back rack

and I'll speak. I saw the list today. Staggering. Yeah, we did. And of course, we raised a lot of money for this group. So Charles Fox,

give us the website too so people can go there and look at your stuff. Well, it's Charles Fox Music. Charlesfoxmusic.com. You've got this HBO thing happening. You won't see yet, but a show that I've just completed

we're working on now with Norman Steinberg, your friend. We love Norman. Yeah, I do too. We did a musical based on an 18th century play called School for Scandal. And we're just now taking meetings. We've completed it. With Arthur Hamilton, who's my collaborator, who wrote

Cry Me a River. And we're here to begin getting to theaters. We hope to move it to Broadway. That's great. You're busy. I'm busy, yeah. And we want to thank, I just want to thank two people, too. Chris DeRose, who helped with the research, and our friend Jared O'Connell, who set up this wonderful keyboard.

Well, thank you. It was fun to play, and I see all your notes. It was very impressive. This is your whole career in about 12 chords. And believe me, I'll never forget you singing my songs. That touches me. And you're not off the hook yet. Not yet?

Because this is the end of the show. Yeah. Why don't we let Charles do one by himself? Oh! Song? Yeah! Yes! Yeah, Surprise us. Amen. Gjørens fjell Thank you. Beautiful.

Thank you. What a special treat this episode was. This was amazing. This may be my new favorite episode out of 250, Charles. This was amazing. Look at your grateful audience here. Well, first of all, thank you guys. You know too much about me.

It's just that simple. I appreciate it. You guys are great. I had a good time myself. There's plenty we didn't even get to. We didn't get to Marcel Marceau and Fred Astaire. You have to come back. You'll have to come back and entertain us. Come back with Norman.

And I've got to put you on the spot again. At the end of Zach, they had a song And I got to put you on the spot again. Yeah. At the end of Zach. Uh-oh. They had a song ready to get what you got if, you know. Don't ask me to play that. I can't remember that for the life of me. Okay, here, here. You can sing it.

You can fake it. I know it's sorts of. I can't remember. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Someone's playing tricks on me. Where is that quiet kid I used to be? Not long ago. You could cut this, Gilbert.

One I used to know. You are amazing. Isn't he something else? I don't remember that. I honestly don't remember that. You know, it's funny. One night we were in the theater years ago, and there was an Albert Brooks movie. I think it was Albert Brooks, and he was with the girl,

and he went back to her house, or she went back to his house. And they find that they're both into theme songs. And he said, really, I love theme songs. And he said, what's your favorite? And he starts to play The Bugaloos. It was a Sid and Marty Krofft show. Of course. I forgot that I wrote that, honestly.

Oh, wow. And I turned to my wife, and they're singing the Bugaloos on the air and everywhere. And I turned to my wife, and I said, I think I wrote that. That's great. And then on the screen credit, I saw it. I knew it might be what it is. Oh, my God. I've written a lot of stuff.

Usually, I don't forget it. We got somebody else we got to get on the show. So we're going to we're going to Oh yeah. We're going to bid Charles a fond farewell. Here I am.

Take a look at me. I'm Isaac Kite and I'm twice as free like a dream that was meant to be. This time I'm fine and I'm ready to get what you got

if you're ready or not. ready to get what you got if you're ready or not. Ready to get what you got if you're ready or not. You're going to come back. You're going to memorize that song. And we have to go back and learn that song again. And you're going to learn that song. We have to learn that. Thanks for reviving it anyway.

Gilbert, you've got to go straight to the Philippines with that. Yes, yes. Guys, I had a lot of fun. Thank you, Charles. This was a real treat for us. This has been terrific, terrific. And, okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre,

and a guy who composed pretty much everything. Pretty much. Charlie Fox. Thank you, guys. A great pleasure. Thanks for inviting me back again. I had a great time. Oh, we will.

We will. You bet. And I carry it with me like my daddy did But I'm living the dream that he kept here Moving me down the highway Moving me down the highway Rolling me down the highway Moving ahead so life won't pass me by Like a north wind whistling down the sky

I've got a song I've got a song. I've got a song. Like a willful will and the beavers cry. I've got a song. I've got a song. And I carry it with me and I sing it loud. If it gets me nowhere, I go there proud. Moving me down the highway, rolling me down the highway. Moving ahead so I won't pass the by. guitar solo

And I'm gonna go there free Like a fool I am and I'll always be I've got a dream I've got a dream They can change their minds but they can't change me I've got a dream I've got a dream, I've got a dream I know I could share it if you want me to If you're going my way, I'll go with you

Bend me down the highway, don't let me down the highway rolling me down the highway moving ahead so life won't pass me by moving me down the highway rolling me down the highway moving ahead so life won't pass me by