Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Illeana Douglas

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

GGACP celebrates the recent release of Illeana Douglas' book, "Connecticut in the Movies: From Dream Houses to Dark Suburbia" by revisiting this 2016 interview with the actress/film historian. In this episode, Illeana shares entertaining anecdotes about everyone from Marlon Brando to Peter Sellers to former beau Martin Scorsese. Also, Rudy Vallee soaks up applause, Melvyn Douglas dispenses advice, Robert De Niro watches the Three Stooges and Illeana mourns the loss of drive-in theaters. PLUS: Shelley Winters drops names! Buddy Hackett cops a feel! Illeana impersonates Richard Dreyfuss! Richard Dreyfuss impersonates Spencer Tracy! And Joe Pesci roughs up Don Rickles!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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a million delicious instant prizes and a grand prize of 25 000 play at games.circlek.com or at participating Circle K stores. Good enough for something so fantastic. Fantastic! So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal Podcast. This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're here at Nutmeg Post with our engineer, Frank Fertorosa. Our guest this week is a writer, producer, and actress who's appeared in dozens of movies and TV shows. You've seen her work in Goodfellas, To Die For, Cape Fear, Stare of Echoes, Ghost World, and Grace of My Heart.

TV appearances include Seinfeld, The Larry Sanders Show, The Drew Carey Show, Entourage, and Six Feet Under. show Entourage and Six Feet Under. She's worked with everyone from Robert De Niro to Buddy Hackett to Christopher Walken to Jerry Lewis and her own new book is called I Blame Dennis Hopper and other stories from a life lived in and out of the movies. Please welcome one of our favorite actresses and very likely the only person more obsessed with Richard Dreyfuss than we are, Ileana Douglas. Yay. I'm so happy to be here.

I love that. Thank you. So we were talking and now that, I guess that was our rehearsal. Talk about how we met. OK, we met at the the at the it wasn't even a premiere of Aladdin. It was they did animation has come so far, but they they did a prescreening of Aladdin and it was just sketches. of Aladdin and it was just sketches and they had this extremely expensive kind of faux Indian premiere and you were there and and I was with uh Martin Scorsese then and you were telling us how

they um you almost didn't get the part because they thought you were uh maybe too one-dimensional to play the parrot. Yeah. And Bernie, he thought that was one of the funniest things. He just, he would always repeat that. He's like, remember that time we met? Yeah. I was too one-dimensional. I didn't have the dimensions to be a cartoon parrot.

Yeah. We remembered that. That was fun. That was so funny. And I remember, well, two things I have to bring up. Okay. Number one, in your book, you describe yourself as an Italian Catholic. Yeah.

Yeah. But your grandfather, great actor, Melvin Douglas. Two-time, great actor Melvin Douglas. Two time Oscar winner Melvin Douglas. Yes. Yes. Revere actor. Yeah. Is in fact a Jew, isn't he? Well, I guess he is. He's half he's half Jewish. I mean, we're all we're in show business. So we're all Jewish. The way I look at it. It's already established. you can't be in

show business without being jewish but technically he was only half jewish because his father was jewish his mother was a was a southern scottish belle from kentucky geez yeah so um but so that Scottish Belle from Kentucky. Geez. Yeah. So that. This would mean you are, in fact, contaminated with Jewish blood. But aren't Italians and Jews the same? You're looking at two right here. We've got both sides represented. And, you know, many times, many times I've wanted to contaminate you with Jewish blood. But we have the guilt thing is slightly different.

The guilt, the Italian guilt and the Jewish guilt. A little bit different. Now, I remember, and it brought back a memory of the first time meeting you, that in your book, you talk about being with the cool girl in the car. And she would ride up front and you'd be in the back. And she was the pretty cool girl. And if she wanted a Coke, you ran out and got it for her. Yes. I remember you standing there, and I think Scorsese introduced us. Yeah. And he said, you know, this is Ileana Douglas.

And you said, hello. And I said, I'm kind of thirsty. Can you get me a Diet Coke? And you got me a Diet Coke. Is that true? I was so insecure. I would always think that, you know, nobody knew who I was. Well, it's Marty and people just want to talk to Marty, try to get a job is what I was always assuming.

You weren't trying to get a job, right? No, no. I was trying to get a job, right? No, no. I was trying to get a Diet Coke. Oh, okay. Yeah, and you ran and got me a Diet Coke. Oh, well, good. I'm glad. I'm glad.

I always remember that. Oh, thank you. Well, I was, you know, I figure you wanted your quality time with Martin Scorsese. Yeah. Although he was a big fan of yours. He was, you know. Was.

Yes. I'm hoping he still is. When did he turn against me? Well, maybe he'll turn up in vinyl. See, having, for me, having Martin Scorsese as a fan

is like having a blonde with big tits as your best friend. But he was a fan of yours, so you should be on vinyl. I remember he invited me out of nowhere before I even met him. He invited me to appear at Gracie Mansion when Koch was still in office about a whole thing about preserving old films. Yes. Yeah. That would have been the kind of exciting things we were doing. Yeah. Comedians were doing cocaine we were uh you know yeah and i remember the first time i spoke to him on the phone he says well i i i really want you to to go there and speak and and you know you'll speak there and robert de niro is going to be

there and you know what a great public speaker he is so he knew you were a film buff yes yeah he knew that about you yeah well i mean obviously will you are you are you a jerry lewis fan did you have made he is made yeah we talk about it on the show a lot yeah we're all obsessed you can't go out with martin scorsese without being a jerry lewis fan too, yeah. Rickles, you know, De Niro is obsessed with Don Rickles, too. Right. I heard that Don Rickles during Casino would just constantly be cracking jokes. Oh, that's true. Well, you know, the whole Don Rickles, the whole reason he's in Casino, The whole reason he's in Casino, I was always obsessed with comedians. And I owe a lot to Bob Costas because I saw, I don't know if you guys remember the old Bob Costas. Of course, yeah.

We had him here. Do you remember when he had Don Rickles on for five nights in a row? He just kept the camera going. And he had him on five nights in a row and he was talking about Vegas. And I was talking about Vegas and I was crazy about Don Rickles and after I watched that show I said Marty you got to get Don Rickles in Casino he knows all about this and Marty you know bless his heart was always so insecure he always think oh Don Rickles doesn't want to be in my movie and of course he ended up he did it and he was in uh you know he was in casino and uh

all he ever did was make fun of um robert de niro he was terrible though i yeah i i remember reading that uh de niro would do a dramatic scene and rickles would oh, that's the way you're going to play it? All right. Totally. And he loved it. The only person he was afraid of was Joe Pesci because Joe Pesci would really rough him up. You know, they were shooting these scenes. It was like, you know, well, in Las Vegas, they, you know, they work 11, 12 o'clock at night.

There's no sense of time there so they would be doing these scenes and they'd have to wake up don rickles in his trailer you know it was midnight to go do a scene and he was very afraid of uh joe pesci beating the hell out of him we were also obsessed with the costas show iliana it was the yeah greatest wasn't it oh and the last kind of show, and we said this to Bob, the last kind of show where you could, like the old Cavett show in a way, where you could get a guest on not only for several nights, but really get those kind of in-depth interviews. And he'd get people like Frankenheimer and Rod Steiger. And didn't you talk Marty into doing the show? I did. Those are also memorable episodes.

I did. Yeah. Those are also memorable episodes. I said, you have to do this show because, you know, once this show is gone, there will be nothing else like this. And I was I was correct. He was really glad that he went on and did the show. Yeah. There hasn't been anything like it since now. in your book i i remember i i laughed at one point because in the beginning yeah it reminded me of that albert brooks movie lost in america ah the best where he decides to give up his advertising job rat race because he's he wants to live like Easy Rider. Touch Indians. Yeah. And that happened to you.

Yeah. My parents saw, you know, we had just, I mean, I was a little kid. I was four. But my parents had met in New York City and were living in the village and they'd moved to Connecticut. And they were just about to sort of start the kind of classic American middle-class dream. And then my father saw the movie Easy Rider and came home and quit his job and became a hippie and started a commune called The Studio and started a band. And all of a sudden hippies were living all around us.

And, you know, they, he started emulating Dennis Hopper and the values of the movie, Easy Rider, much like that movie, you know, with Albert Brooks, Lost in America. And it changed my life and changed my destiny because they saw that movie. And my mom used to say, why did they, why did we see that goddamn movie? And when you finally met Hopper, what, what you, you obviously, you told him this, you were dying to tell him this.

Oh, well, that was like the whole joke. I couldn't wait. I said, this is going to be great. I'm going to meet Dennis Hopper and blame him for my life and ask him for all the money I think he owes me because you know we became poor because of the commune um because you know free love is expensive as we began to figure as my parents figured out but the day I was supposed to meet Dennis Hopper on my way to the set well I ended up being in a car accident because the intern fell asleep at the wheel. And so by the time I met Dennis Hopper, I was like lying on the ground and saw my life flashing

before my eyes and thought I heard my father speaking to me. But in fact, it was in the real Dennis Hopper. And so it was very different than I had anticipated. And he, you know, cradled me in his arms and told me I was having a concussion and said, your brain isn't supposed to move inside your head. It's not supposed to do that. And that's why I had my own epiphany with Dennis Hopper. You know, it's funny, Ileana. You and I also met. There's Gilbert's phone going off. We'll edit that out.

Okay. I'm sorry. You got it. You and I also met at the Joy Behar show a couple years ago at HLN in the green room. And you were so nice. And it was just funny because I walked into the room. We'd never met. And within, I think, three minutes, we started talking about old movies.

Obviously, you knew who your grandfather was. And why I think you were destined to do this podcast, and I have to tell this to Gil, too. I didn't get a chance to tell him. I'm going through the book, and I'm finding movie after movie and reference after reference that we've made on this show. Oh, my God, yes. Really? Well, I mean, when we're not doing celebrity interviews like this one, we do a little mini episode on Thursdays where we just we just obsess about movies we love. One movie you mentioned in the book that's an obsession of mine is The Swimmer with Burt Lancaster. There you go. Frank Perry. Frank Perry, my first professional job in show business right across from from, you know, from Frank Perry, working with Peggy Siegel, the film publicist, and working day by day next to Frank Perry, the swimmer.

That movie hypnotizes me every time I watch it. I could watch it a million times. You know, Alec Baldwin for years wanted to do a remake of that. I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know that. I wanted to, but I can't swim and I look terrible in swim trunks. Well, you asked, we were talking about Robert Osborne and Gilbert being on TCM and The Swimmer was one of the movies you picked, actually.

Right, Gil? Yeah. I picked The Swimmer, The Conversation, Freaks, and the original of Mice and Men with Lon Chaney and Burgess Meredith. Isn't that a killer? Isn't that a killer? I have the album of that movie. You know, remember the day they used to sell it? Oh, yes. They'd have like the music and then they have the conversation. So you if you ever wanted to cry, which is me, I always want to cry.

Like another way to make yourself cry is to after the movie, get the soundtrack and then you can have the conversation on the album and, you know, I just cry. Beautiful, beautiful film. Yeah, I remember I had, of course, the album to The Godfather. The Godfather. Now you just have the movies. You don't have to have the albums. No, something about having the album, again, it's that secretive thing where it wasn't as easy to share emotion in those days. Do you find that to be true? Like if you were watching a movie with your friends, if you cried in a film, you were like an idiot or a loser or something. So you wanted to do all that stuff privately. and maybe bringing it up to your bedroom and closing the door, you could put on the album, re-listen to it, and re-feel all those feelings that you couldn't do in public.

At least that was me. Oh, and I just remembered something I had to ask you. Yes. Getting back to your grandfather, the great Melvin Douglas. Yes. What was his greatest piece of advice to you? Oh, I love that. Well, we were on the set. I went to visit him in the set of being there. And, you know, I was a little kid. I kind of wanted to be in acting. And at that point, I was kind of obsessed with Ruby Keeler.

I thought that was like actor what acting was being in a movie, being Ruby Keeler. I thought that was like what acting was, being in a movie, being Ruby Keeler. But he said, Liana, you want to be an actress? I want to give you one piece of solid advice. Wherever you are, always order the club sandwich because wherever you are in any country, the one thing, they can't screw it up.'s always the same so always remember to order the club sandwich that's sound advice this is Melvin Douglas one of the greatest actors ever and that's the bit of advice

that's what he said but I can't tell you how many times I remember having food poisoning in Madrid so many times I open a menu and I'm like I remember having food poisoning in Madrid and being in Brits. So many times I open a menu and I'm like, yeah, I have the club sandwich. He didn't win two Oscars for nothing, Eliany. He knew.

Order of the clubs always go with the club sandwich. It's always the same. Speaking of Melvin Douglas, and I was getting back to why I thought you were destined to do this show. Another movie we talked about and that you picked, Gil, was HUD. Yes. Yeah, I recommended HUD. Yeah, we've talked about HUD. We've talked about being there. We've talked about, I know you're like ace in the hole. Ace in the hole. Ace in the hole is happening right now. Yep. Yep. Sure is. And a little bit of face in the crowd. Yes. More Ace in the Hole. Yeah.

The media has created Donald Trump and they pushed it. Everybody's going to go watch Ace in the Hole. They just pushed it a little bit too far. And now they kick it back. But he's out there. He's goose stepping. It's great. It's a hell of a movie.

Yeah. And we've also talked about Bang the Drum Slowly, which turns up in your book, and The Changeling with your grandfather, and After Hours, and The King of Comedy. And these are all movies that we've discussed on the show, and they play a prominent role in your book. Because I don't follow sports at all and yet i i love bang the drum slowly i saw it at a drive-in i mean again there were so many great films i saw at drive-in movie theaters you know parents where there was no you know parental discretion they sent us off to the drive-in and we were watching Nudity and watching all these films. And so luckily for

me, I guess because I was unattractive, while everybody else was getting it on, I was actually, I'd actually be watching the movie and watching these amazing films. I saw Serpico that way, but Bang the Drum slowly. You're right. I don't even like sports. And that's one of the saddest movies

I have ever seen. It is heartbreaking. And a couple of times on this show, I have sung the song that De Niro and those other people, not the sad song, but when they're on the variety show. Yes.

And they start singing that song. It's a killer. It's a killer. And we have no other actors like Vincent Gardinia. Oh, my God. Yeah. Right. We loved him.

We loved him. Yeah. No one exists. Like, you know, again, we have wiped out, which is getting back to your thing about being Jewish. We've wiped out ethnic ethnicity in films where you need a great Irish guy. You need a great Jewish actor. You need a great Italian actor. There is just a broad, quote unquote, ethnic person. Does that make sense?

That's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. You know, they talk about diversity, and it's great to have diversity, but it's like we're also losing cultural identity within what makes each culture interesting. And speaking of drive-ins, we're also losing movie theaters. I mean, one of the saddest things in your book, I mean, in this nostalgia stuff about you and the drive-in is very sweet,

but also you start talking about the theaters, the old New York theaters that are gone. Like the Thalion, the Ziegfeld just closed here, which is heartbreaking. The Ziegfeld. How many great movies have I seen at the Ziegfeld? Us too. I mean, I remember just being like depressed and just thinking I got to go to the Ziegfeld and just just see a movie just to sit there and see a movie and know how good it feels to see a film. I mean, the scary thing is I can foresee the day, not in the way future, but close up when that's when all the movie theaters close up.

Yeah, that's well, that's true. I mean, that's it's happening in this. You know, you can you can watch movies on Netflix, but we don't have the context of seeing it in a group. But we don't have the context of seeing it in a group. That's one of the things I talk about in the book, what it actually felt like to see Jaws as a kid. Oh, yeah. And to be in a group of 600 people screaming their guts out at a movie and to actually feel that excitement and what that excitement felt like. Yeah, those days are going to be gone.

Well, you've still got the Arclight and the Chinese Theater and the Cinerama Dome. I mean, we've lost, I think, almost all the show places in New York, Gil. Yeah. There's almost nothing left. I remember seeing Death Wish in the theater. And every time he shot down a mugger, the crowd would go insane. Yeah. And they'd be jumping, cheering and applauding

and that kind of thing. I know. Well, it's exciting. You don't, the only time I experienced that now is at Turner Classic Movies when they have the film festival. And they'll show something, like they showed It's a mad,

mad world, you know, in 70 millimeter. And people were going insane because, you know, you just don't get to experience anything like that anymore. Well, we've also talked about how sometimes the movie going experience colors your your memory of seeing that film. Oh, completely. You know, that day you seeing that film oh completely you know that day you went to that theater you you met that person online i mean seeing i saw pennies from heaven the the herbert ross version of pennies from heaven the steve martin movie and in a snowstorm at the ziegfeld i'll never forget it i was one of the two people in the theater and it it really affected

my experience of of the film which is something I think we're going to lose. Totally. I remember being in acting school and we had an experience in our class. I mean, completely tragic where a girl in our class had been murdered. I mean, came to New York with a big dream. And, you know, our teacher gathered us all and he said, you guys should all go to a movie today. Like we didn't know what to do with ourselves. He said, you know what, go out and see a film and be together and watch a movie together. And even that seems like a kind of an old fashioned idea. I mean, this was, you know, 1986. But, you know, though, movies used to make you feel good. Yeah, it's an experience that we're losing in New York,

which is very sad. Yeah. Well, plus the whole, as I write in the drive-in. And drive-ins too. Yeah. Social experience. Oh, yeah. Also, I remember when I used to go to movies and I'd see a movie that I really liked, I wouldn't want to experience anything else. I wouldn't want anything to interfere with that feeling. Yes. Yeah. I know. Yes. I know what you mean.

mean? Because you you've you know, I remember like, yeah, watching a movie and, you know, you got this whole vibe and you'd leave the movie. And my mother would say to me, what is the matter with you? And I'd be like, yes, it's working. I'm I'm whoever I'm just seeing in the movie. You know, it was kind of like you are high on something and you didn't want anything to interfere absolutely i didn't want people to talk to me i didn't want to see tv or any other movies yeah i i just wanted to live in that i agree i agree and i wonder if we you know it's very rare that we have that experience now did you ever have the experience where if somebody didn't like a movie you liked that you, you know, broke up with them or ended a friendship? You guys are laughing. I'm like all the time.

My test was always the heartbreak kid. That's my test. Oh yeah. Yeah. We've talked to another one we've talked about on this show. If somebody doesn't like The Heartbreak Kid, like, I can't be friends with you. Well, our friend is Drew Friedman, who's Bruce J. Friedman's son, who wrote the original story. He'll be very happy to hear you say that.

I'm, like, if you can't quote that film, I know where... I cannot be friends with you. And a new leaf, since you're talking about Elaine May. Well, a new leaf again. One of your picks. Classic.

Marty and I used to quote that all the time. She'll be in my house, touching my face. Now, you, I've heard, do a Shelley Winters imitation. I am not a comedian. You're a comedian. I was a comedian for like a minute. But I barely, barely got by with Shelley Winters. In my era, you know, she'd already, you know, she'd been a 50s bombshell.

Right, sure. Post Poseidon Adventure, she'd gotten sort of large, and she got by a lot by sort of talking about her, you know, she'd been friends with Marilyn Monroe, Robert De Niro. But she would kind of have like a little catch in her voice when I was, you know, Bobby and I were friends, and I taught Marlon how to be sexy. She was constantly, like, rubbing her breasts.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. You know who does a wonderful Shelley Winters in the Poseidon Adventure, Eliana, is Mario Cantone. Really? Oh my God, Mario Cantone, I love him. Yeah, we've had him on the show, he's a friend

and he does maybe the best Shelley Winters going, but that was pretty damn good. Thank you. Oh, yeah. George Stevens said to me when i was working with stanley kubrick she always was like almost out of breath i would always talk about who she stopped too always yeah that was the big thing you You know who took over for the talking about I knew Robert De Niro and I knew Al Pacino? Sally Kirkland.

Yeah. She's the new Shelly winner. She, for a while, was going on every single talk show. And her claim to fame was, oh, I went to acting school with Robert De Niro and Al Pacino. Oh, God. Ileana, there's so many places we could go. I mean, you want to talk about being on the set of Being There as a Kid? Do you want to talk about our shared obsession with Richard Dreyfuss?

Where do we, let's try to do them all quickly. Okay. Because this is just book one. I know. You got more in you, huh? Book two, we're going to get into the Larry Sanders show. Oh, yeah. The phenomenon of that. It's all

one big movie. There's so much we have. We have to ask you about Buddy Hackett and action. We could keep going. Buddy Hackett. You know, Buddy Hackett and action. I mean, we could keep going. You know, Buddy Hackett, you know, again, there was a time in show business where it was not politically incorrect to come up to your co-star, put your hand up her skirt and say good morning. Yeah. And things like that. I miss those days. He says it to me. You're like, oh, buddy.

And then you'd sort of try to put his hand from out from under your skirt. And I'd say, oh, buddy, you realize I'm not a waitress in 1962. We're not at the Sands Hotel. But, yeah, so Buddy was just an incredible person to work with. Oh, yeah. Tell us some Buddy Hackett stories because we love them. I'll tell you the most. I mean, Buddy was, of course, incredible. course incredible but i would say that the the the saddest thing but also the most endearing thing

about buddy is that we were on top of the world with that show action i mean it's a fun show ahead of its time yeah when we just thought you know we we i made that show business mistake of like we all thought oh this show's amazing and we're going to be here forever. But, you know, then we got canceled and I remember shooting on the very last day and we were in some ridiculous outfit. I was dressed as the elephant princess. And I remember Buddy Hackett sort of crying and saying to me, I'm never going to work. This will be my last show business job. You're never going to see me again. And I said, oh, buddy, that's not true. And of course it like it was true. And it was, again, one of those sort of sad, you know, things, those reminders of those

show business legends, Buddy Hackett, Milton Berle, Jerry Lewis, like once they're gone, Buddy Hackett, Milton Berle, Jerry Lewis, like once they're gone, that's it. It's true. That's it. We have no ties to what it was actually like to be a comic in those days. And we all we have left is the stories that they told us. And they weren't, you know, they weren't as forthcoming in those days, except about women they slept with, those that they talk about all day long. But, you know, once those type of people leave, all we have left are the people that they told stories to. So it becomes more and more important.

Well, it's one of the reasons we do this show. I mean, we're trying to keep that alive. Exactly. Again, another example is Peter Sellers. You know, I only had the experience of meeting him one time. My grandfather had this experience. He was in the army. They had been just completely coincidentally stationed together in Burma at the same time.

So he had a relationship with Peter Sellers prior to being in the movie, but they had a very special relationship. And I knew him really as Inspector Clouseau from the films. But, you know, my grandfather, you know, so again, I went from this experience of seeing a poster of him on the wall to now I'm meeting him. And he immediately went into this Inspector Clouseau, you know, routine for me, accusing me of being in this, you know, French baguette stealing ring. And everybody was laughing. But then he got very serious. And he said, he asked me, you know, do you ride a unicycle? And I said, no, I don't ride a unicycle. And he said, oh, but you must. You must ride a unicycle because it's hard and not everybody can do it.

And it was such an odd thing to say to a child. Yet it seemed funny and I kind of remembered it. And then all these years later, as I write about, I had this experience where I go to see a psychic. She informs me that, you know, Peter Sellers has this message for me that he's sitting there on a unicycle. And it was incredible. and it was incredible to me it was this reminder again of this idea of him what he said to me all these years later

being on a unicycle it's hard being a comic not everybody can do it but he was somebody that was misunderstood people don't understand how complex it is to be a comedian can do it but he was somebody that was misunderstood i think you know not people don't understand how complex it is to be a comedian going back to buddy hackett and jay moore probably yourself you know people comedians are pretty crazy and i don't think we have as much sort of understanding for them as we used to have. Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah. You know, like it's we're not as forgiving these days with as much Prozac and blah, blah, blah that's out there. I feel like there's less of a forgiving atmosphere for people who are vulnerable. You know, Buddy Hackett used to be, you know, he was very, he'd be very crazy, and then all of a sudden he was very sweet, then he'd be crying, then he'd be groping you. But, you know, it was like, you know, Buddy Hackett, just give him a break. Nowadays, that would be all over the Internet.

I know, I know. I know. That Buddy Hackett grabbed some girl's ass. They demand an apology. No. He'd have to go on every show as a confessional. I know. As long as we're talking about Buddy, have you seen him play Lou Costello in the TV movie?

No. Ileana? Okay. If nothing else comes out of this episode... Okay. There was Buddy Hackett and Harvey Corman

played in this Bud and Lou movie where they were Abedin Costello. And they... I mean, the routines were terrible in the movie. They couldn't get the the routines were terrible. They couldn't get the timing down. As Gil says, it's like they'd never seen Abbott and Costello. Yeah, it's like they never heard of Abbott and Costello and were just handed the script.

But there is one scene that I thought, oh, this is the greatest movie death scene of all time. Yeah. Artie Johnson from Laughing shows up as their, I guess, Eddie Sherman, the manager. Yeah. And Buddy Hackett as Luke Costello is in his hospital bed. It's on YouTube, Pilianna. You could see it. Okay. It's on YouTube, Pileana. You could see it. And Artie reaches under his jacket and he takes out this container and he goes, I got you a strawberry malted.

And Buddy takes one sip and he goes, you know, I had a lot of strawberry every mortgage in my day. But this one's the best. And his head falls to the side and he's dead. Oh, no. You must see it. As somebody who knew Buddy and worked with him, you must. Oh, my God. That was this week. Buddy also, you know, he hated smoking, couldn't smoke with him. You must. Oh my God. That was this week. Buddy also,

you know, he hated smoking. Couldn't smoke around him. And we had, we went to New York for the, what they call the up fronts. That's when you, they you know, decide that your pilot's going to be picked up. And we were at the up fronts and there was some actress and her

manager was smoking in New York. In those days you could smoke. Buddy got up from the table, grabbed the guy and punched him in the jaw. That's a good story. The guy was on the ground. No, you can't get away with stuff like that. You'd be like, it's Buddy

Hackett, whatever. Well, it's like don rickles would have had his career destroyed the stuff he said nowadays yeah no i know you can't say anything these days nothing is what jerry lewis stories do you have meeting and working with him that's book number two well There's some of it in the back of book one. Yes. Toward the end. Laying the groundwork for Jerry is that what we met and I got cast

weirdly, this little cameo in a movie called Max Rose and I was playing his psychiatrist and we just, you know, we just hit it off. We started, you know, becoming friends and I traveled with him a bit to watch shows with him on the road. And it's he's got a whole fan base out there. I mean, I know people have very strong feelings about him, but he did contribute a lot to, you know, the film industry. I don't know. I can't speak about people's personal feelings about him, but I didn't feel any of those things. You know, again, he works with he worked with Kathleen Freeman. He was a huge fan of Toadie Fields. I love Kathleen Freeman.

But so it's always interesting, again, to see the public perception to somebody and what that comedian's privately like. And all you can do is stand back these days and go, you know, I think maybe he's a little misunderstood. Can he give you a gift? He gave it. Well, he's given me many gifts. The first gift he gave me was, again, a wanted to give me a flashlight and wanted me to have a flashlight, which I thought was a sort was a nicely significant gift. Because when I was a kid, I used to have this dream about having a gigantic flashlight and putting it in the sky. That was my dream. I was leading kids.

I was leading people through the darkness. kids that I was leading people through the darkness. So him giving me this flashlight was a sort of strangely significant gift because I thought it coincided with, you know, my work on Turner Classic movies. And, you know, he never had his handprint footprint in front of Grauman's. Wow. I didn't know that. Really? Yeah. So it was something I sort of mentioned and campaigned for him. Again, he's not the most politically correct person, but I felt as if he was kind of due something. And so they, you know, they, it ended up, you know, he did get his handprint footprint there.

It has brought back some, I think, positive feelings for him. But, you know, he's a complex person. People don't seem to relate to him. You know, although I I think his movies are great. You know, again, I don't quite understand that. But and and Scorsese looks up to Lewis. I think he does to a certain extent. I mean, my recollection was interesting being having Marty talk about Jerry on King of Comedy and all of his contributions to King of Comedy, you know,

which Jerry, you know, originally King of Comedy was going to be Johnny Carson. Yeah, sure. And then that didn't work out. And then they ended up with Jerry. And once Jerry came on board, he really kind of shaped that movie in ways that I don't think people are really aware of, which is some of the things I had heard from Marty. And then later on, when I got to know Jerry, those were things that he confirmed. You know, being able, you know, there's a whole part in the movie where they're doing the live television show. And Jerry directed a lot of that. Those were all like his suggestions.

He had a lot of contributions to that film, much more than I think he ever acknowledged, you know. We've talked about that film. We love it. Oh, it's the best. They don't make black comedies. Hollywood doesn't make black comedies like that anymore. No, they don't do them as well as that. No, not at all, especially with an icon like him. Yeah, it's so good. And I remember also in your book, and I had heard this before, then it fascinated me that originally Steven Spielberg was going to direct Cape Fear and Martin Scorsese was going to direct Schindler's List. Yeah, that's true. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah, they swapped projects, yeah. that crazy? Yeah, they swap projects. Yeah, I'm I'm the rememberer, I guess. And you go. Yeah, no, no, that's that. That's true. Marty originally had the option on Schindler's List and he was going to do it. And through, you know, while I was out doing this little cameo again in this movie called Guilty by Suspicion, they discussed it and they ended up swapping material. So Marty ended up doing Cape Fear and Spielberg ended up doing Schindler's List. And and it's interesting to see how that all, you know, how that all turned out. I think it worked out. It's one of those things like I kind of wish separately they had both done both pictures.

was that because he was not Jewish, would audiences, you know, would he be raked over the coals for doing a film like Schindler's List? It's a risk. What do you think? Well, the closest he dealt with the Holocaust a little bit in Shutter Island. He did? Yeah. God, I don't even remember that Island. He did? Yeah. God, I don't even remember that. Oh, yes.

Yeah. Because it's like, DiCaprio has memories of like shooting down the Nazi soldiers. Oh, yeah. Oh, God. Okay. I think I blocked that out. That's like one of the movies that sort of goes over the top of my head, I guess.

There's a lot of like rear screen projection in that film. Yeah. That somewhat threw me. And I know Marty was a big fan of Val Luton films. Do you like the Val Luton? Oh, yeah, sure. We've talked about the Body Snatcher. Yeah.

So when I saw Shutter Island, it seemed like a Val Luton movie. It had a lot of those qualities. I hadn't thought it through that way. Had you, Gilbert? No. It is a little bit like that. It's got those qualities. But interesting that you point that out.

I wonder if that was a big regret of his. Yeah, because there is a scene in a concentration camp. Wow. And then when he meets, what's his name? Yeah, because there is a scene in a concentration camp. Wow. And then when he meets, what's his name? Mark Ruffalo? No, the exorcist. Oh, yeah.

Max von Sydow. Max von Sydow. Right. It shows there's a tension there because he's speaking in like a German accent. Yes. So he immediately hates him. Interesting. Okay.

I just wish Martin Scorsese had directed more comedies, out-and-out comedies. I mean, Goodfellas is funny and Casino's funny. But After Hours, which we've talked about, Gilbert and I have talked about, and The King of Comedy are so wonderful. You just wish he'd gone back to that well yeah well i mean you and i we may be in the minority i felt that way i was you know when i met marty when he was doing last temptation of christ those were all i love king of comedy and after hours i wasn't as much of a fan of Raging Bull. Right. You and me both. Like, even though I know they're the classic films, but I just loved After Hours.

I thought it was one of the funniest movies I'd ever seen. And King's Comedy, I just thought was brilliant. And yet, for lack of a better term, I mean, all of his films are highly regarded. But those two films are a little bit of ugly stepchildren. I think so. And maybe because the reception wasn't great that he didn't go back into making comedies again. But, boy, both times that he tried, he hit the bullseye. Well, he's very funny. Gilbert knows that.

He's very funny, loves comedians. You know, he does love comedians. Yeah, he was at the roast. He was at the Jerry Lewis roast at the Friars. Yeah. So, I mean, I think he's very funny, but, you know, I guess you're right. I guess doing a comedy at this stage would be sort of tough, maybe. sort of tough, maybe. And I remember him sending me a tape of like, like an old Eddie Cantor voicemail routine as a Jewish tailor that he was very, he was a big fan of.

Did you ever see Hell's a Poppin? Oh no. Olsen and Johnson. Oh yeah. He, yeah, he would watch, he'd, no. Olsen and Johnson. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he would watch. Sometimes we would watch these movies. Yeah, we watched Hell's a-poppin'. And sometimes, you know, and he also loved Red Skelton.

He was a big Red Skelton fan. We won't hold that against him. Not a name, again, mentioned too much. But there was like, you you know sometimes like if i was like i i was like please don't make me watch one more like red nickels uh red skeleton film i'd be forced to watch red skeleton so since we touched on it and by the way i want to go go i want to speak since gilbert mentioned spielberg uh this is a side note but you also have defended a film that we've defended

on this show 1941 the best yeah again we're in a minority no it's it's it's you know the No! The interesting thing is, when I show that film on TCM, on was a whole new renewed interest in the film. And since then, it's been given a Blu-ray release and they've started to screen it again. Wow, maybe in part because of you guys. I think so. I mean, I think that people, again, Spielberg,

never made another comedy. I know. Yeah, put his name on a couple as a producer, but never. So here's two, arguably, the two best filmmakers, the best American filmmakers of the last, what, 40 years? Yes. And they both had slightly compromised experiences, you could say, making comedies, and I think shunned them after that.

Yeah. And I think it's unfortunate. And Spielberg and Scorsese and all those guys of that time period are all friends? Well, I mean, are they friends? I don't know. I'm asking you.

I'm the interviewer. You're the guest. I'm asking you. I don't think they are friends. You know, when we were living in New York, I always felt like, you know, Marty was like, you know, the Phantom of the Opera. Like, you know, in his brownstone, never going out. And I used to try to get him to go out and, you know, see people and be out in the human race and meet other filmmakers. I think there's this assumption that they are all really close friends. And I but I think that there's a little bit of friendly competition amongst everybody. You know, I don't know if they're as close friends as we all imagine it. You know, does that make sense? Gilbert wants to live in a world where they're all really good friends.

Yes. Yeah. I want I want it to be like the Rat Pack. De Palma, too. Yeah. I don't think it's quite that. Yeah. I don't think it's quite that way.

I remember, you know, sort of going out to Steven Spielberg's house in the Hamptons and it would be like Marty and Brian De Palma and Spielberg and it was always very awkward between them. There was always a little bit of friendly competition between them. The only thing they could agree on was that Coppola was a genius. That was their all. They would all be competing with one another and there'd be a sort of quiet as, you know, they get to apocalypse now and go, yep. Yeah. Francis. Yeah. Francis is a genius. And that, you know, they'd be on safe ground.

Now you do raging bullwinkle. I used it back in 1986, I did it. But I no longer – you don't have enough money to make me do Raging Bullwinkle, which is one of the scariest things I ever had to do. Everybody keeps making you do it. I saw you on Kevin Pollak's show, and he tried to get you. It's not even funny. I'm not a comedian. That's why I was a comedian

for about a minute. Well, does Gilbert know that? Do you know that Ileana did stand up here in the city at Stand Up New York? Were you briefly managed by Carrie Hoffman? No, I wanted to. A guy we know? Oh, okay. I won this contest. I was like, how hard could this be? Be funny for five minutes. And I won a couple of contests at Stand Up New York. And what was so funny was he kind of lied to me and he said, you know, listen, you do well here and you win this contest and, you know, I'll get you on Letterman. I'll get you on Letterman. So I won the contest, and I said, when do I get to be on Letterman? And he goes, no, no, you misunderstood. I meant you play your cards right, you go out on the road, you do some gigs, and someday you'll be on Letterman.

So I didn't like the idea of going on the road. I went on one gig. He sent me on one gig to like Mount Vernon and I was taking the subway home at one o'clock in the morning and thinking, how do, how do girls do this? Like, this is terrifying. I mean, how does a young girl do stand up without getting molested? That was always like my, uh, experience of doing stand-up there was like the casual groping that that that preceded uh everything that i would do i didn't quite understand but is that just me or no no i get groped all the time people grab my dick before I go on stage. Or he wouldn't go.

I was doing stand-up with people like Judy Gold, so maybe they didn't have the experience that I had. But I was always experiencing like, wow, this seems to be like, this is kind of a seedy environment to do stand-up. So I wasn't crazy about it. And the minute I heard that you'd do one set, then you'd have to go in the village and go do something there. And I was like, this is late at night. I can't do this.

The whole world for me seemed kind of out of place. But I love doing sketch comedy. And when I was doing sketch comedy is where I developed the the raging bullwinkle routine. Oh, please do it. Marty came and watched me do that. Do the raging bullwinkle. Oh, it's terrible. Just do it. We can cut it out. What was the you know, it was very simple, you know. You just have, you have like

you know, Rocky the squirrel, you know. You know, did you fuck my wife? You know, that's all. It's Bullwinkle asking Rocky. Yes. And Pesci was the flying squirrel. Yes, Pesci is the flying squirrel.

I got it. And what does he say? Are you nuts? Did you ask me a question like that? Why'd you ask me a question like that? ask me a question like that? Why'd you ask me a question like that? I know you laughed as much as Marty. Marty

was the funniest thing he ever heard. When we were on Goodfellas, he'd say, oh, Bob, Bob, you gotta hear this raging bullwinkle. It's so funny. And then suddenly, I'm like a then suddenly I'm like a person, I'm like, I've got this much of an act. It's not even like perfected. And

suddenly he's got Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci staring at me while I'm doing raging bullwinkle. It's a pretty cerebral comedy piece, if I must say, if I can say, Ileana, especially for a young comic to have come up with that. Yes, thank you. Pretty smart. Oh, and tell us about meeting Brando. Well, I mean, again, where do we, did you ever meet him? No. No. Just an amazing person. Well, again, this is when I was, you know, with Marty, I was out in L.A. Of course, I always thought the I love the irony. He was out.

I was doing a low budget film called Wedding Bell Blues, and he was receiving the John Houston Humanitarian Award. Our lives were kind of different. And but he said, oh, by the the way because he would always do this oh by the way marlon brando's coming over for lunch he's going to talk to me about this movie and you'll get to meet him and i had a panic attack i didn't want to meet marlon brando i was like i he meant so much to me as an actor he was like it i had posters of him up on my wall and, you know, I just did not want to meet him. But Marty insists that I meet him. And it just turned

into this crazy experience at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel where Marty kept he coached me. It was like when a producer you're going to be on a talk show and the producer keeps coaching you about you'll say this, Dave will say this. And Marty had coached me so much. Don't talk. Don't say about acting. Marlon Brando, don't do this. Don't do that. The door opened and there was Marlon Brando.

And I literally just burst out crying. It was like, girl. I started bawling. And he was like, oh my God, my dear girl, what is the matter with you? And I just went on this, everything you are is what I want to be. You're my little girl. My kid, everything I want to be is because of you.

And Marty was like, get a hold of yourself, but all of a sudden you know Marlon Brando just it was very weird like we just kind of locked eyes and he started crying and we just had this weird connection where we both got like really really emotional and it just changed the whole kind of day. I write about this whole experience and he never left our room. He was there. He came there for lunch, stayed for dinner. He didn't end up leaving until like one o'clock in the morning. And it turned into this, you know, long day's journey. And tonight with Marlon Brando, where it changed the whole trajectory of my relationship with Marty, finding out about Marlon Brando. It was really an incredible experience. And Marlon Brando, much like Dennis Hopper and some of the other people,

you know, he kind of changed my life. I don't know if you ever met anyone because he was from the movies. It's difficult to explain. If you have an upbringing like I did, that was completely unstable, right? You have no father figures except for Melvin Douglas. So I look to the movies for social cues, right? Then what happens if one day your social cue comes from a man who you have seen in movies? He's not even real. He doesn't exist. But suddenly he is real. He does exist. He's two feet away from you in the Beverly Wilshire Hotel, and he's giving you validation. You know, for me, that experience, I didn't need to go to therapy. That experience cured me. For other people, they would say, OK, well, maybe that's silly or that's not real or whatever.

okay, well, maybe that's silly or that's not real or whatever. For me, because my whole world wasn't real, having Marlon Brando give me that validation, in a sense, cured me, if that makes any sense. And if Marlon Brando believed in me, who was I not to believe in myself? That's quite a story. Didn't he say something about your feet? Yeah, well, that's how it started.

That's how it started, because he looked at me and he said, he looked at Marty and he said, they were talking about movies, and I just thought, you know, I had so, I mean, listen, when I met you, remember, I was like, do you want a Diet Coke? Do you want anything? You know, my whole thing was, I just thought, well, you know, people are here to see Marty.

They don't care who I am. I'm an actor. They don't care. So I tried to always make myself invisible. And so while Marlon Brando was talking to Marty about this movie, he he all of a sudden stopped and he looked at me and he said, look at your feet. And I looked down and he and my feet were kind of inverted, pigeon toed. And he said, that's a sign of insecurity why should you be insecure and i just burst out crying and that's why i said i i am insecure you know and i just went on this thing of feeling as if i don't know why i'm here you're here to talk to him i you it just set the tone of the day of, you know, he called me a tuning fork because he

started to cry. And it was this very strange thing where suddenly Marlon Brando and I were engaged in this really incredible emotional experience. And I had like, you know, Marty on the sidelines kind of going, hey, what about me? Now, you also say then Brando sent you flowers and you were talking to another girl about possibly fucking Marlon Brando. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. My biggest show business regret.

I mean, to this day. And again, I don't know if he wanted to. Maybe he did. Hopefully he did. But anyway, we had a real moment there. We connected. moment there we connected he sent me a really beautiful a personal letter along with like a bushel of roses and he invited me to his house for lunch and this is when i was still in a relationship and marty's assistant uh recommended quite strongly that i not go there to his house for lunch. So ultimately, I didn't go, but it was my biggest show business regret.

And you are saying that it went so far as discussing with this other woman, like how his fat would get in the way and what position it would have to be. He was very large at the time. I mean, he showed up. He was wearing a sweatsuit. He was wearing this blue velour sweatsuit which matched the color of his eyes.

I was like, where do you even get that much velour? I've never seen that much velour in my life. It was very, very large. And he had actually said he lost 30 pounds. I was thinking, you know, 30 pounds from what? You know, 300?

But my friend, you know, I got invited to lunch, and I was like ultimate fangirl. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to go to Marlon Brando's house. I'm going to have sex with Marlon Brando. I'll tell you all about it. She's like, you're in a relationship. I was like, I don't care. It's Marlon Brando. But she kept trying to ruin it for me by describing that because of his girth, there would probably be only one or two ways

we could have sex. Incredible. Whether or not that's true, men of girth need to come out and explain whether she was correct or not. We'll put it out there. She kept trying to root it for me.

To this day, who would, I mean, You should get a hall pass. Tomorrow in Brandon, right? Right, a hall pass, right? So what were the positions? There's only Too much info. There's only one or two ways

if a man of gigantic girth there you could either there's you could either be underneath him and he would suffocate you or you'd have or the girl would have to be on top either way and if she's on top he gigantic. You just can't look down. You just can't. That's when you just have to fantasize. Three-card aim, desire, and, you know, don't look down. While we wait for Gilbert to find the men's room, we promise we'll come back to the show after a word from our sponsor. Don't go away.

Let's talk about another great actor that has a prominent role in the book. And that's going back to your intro, Richard Dreyfuss. Oh, yes. Who we love. We've talked about him on the show. We've talked about the Goodbye Girl.

You've talked about the... You picked the Apprenticeship of Donnie Kravitz. The you picked the apprenticeship of donnie kravitz i love the best is it fair to say i love when you say in the book that you wore him down until he became your friend that's true that's true when i was first of all i was obsessed with him this is one of those interesting things i mean the movie the goodbye girl i thought it was real. You know, when I moved to New York, I actually tried to get an apartment in the building, even though, you know, they shot the movie in a soundstage and the exterior of the building was on 78th Street in Columbus. And I actually tried to get an apartment in the building on 78th Street in Columbus. And I actually tried to get an apartment in the building on 78th Street in Columbus.

Oh, where he slides down the fire escape ladder. Yeah. Yeah. I think I know the building. You do? At the time, there was a place called Alice's Underground. There was a thrift store in the bottom floor. And I tried to get an apartment in the building,

and I couldn't get it. But that's how real I thought it was. And again tried to get an apartment in the building and I couldn't get, but that's how real I thought it was. And I was, and again, when I was in acting school, I remember doing, I was in a play and I really, they didn't like what I was doing. And I said, you know what, screw it. I'm just going to be Richard Dreyfuss. And then suddenly they were like, I don't know what you're doing, but keep it up. It's great. And I'm like, Dreyfus, Jaws, that's what I'm doing. But so then years go by and I get cast in this movie with Richard Dreyfus. And again, I'm like, oh, my God, it's going to be amazing. I can't wait to tell him I'm obsessed with him.

And but it was a drama. It was not a comic. Meyer Lansky. And I was doing a very serious scene with him and but it was a drama it was not a comic Meyer Lansky and I was doing a very serious scene with him and I I could not stop laughing because you know he was very funny in the film and uh but we eventually sort of got to talking got to be friends but it was really through Turner Classic movies that I wore him down into actually participating in a friendship with him and letting me interview him on stage for Turner Classic Movies. And I think that was really a turning point because he hadn't done many film interviews. I don't think he takes his own career

seriously. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's interesting. Well, what I found interesting in the book is you said you were doing Richard Dreyfuss. And when you talked to him about this, he said he was doing Spencer Tracy. Yeah, I finally revealed to him that I was doing him. And he said, oh, that's funny, because I was doing Spencer Tracy. I was like, what? And he goes, yeah, I love Spencer Tracy. I was like, I said, wait a minute. So I'm doing you doing Tracy. I was like, what? And he goes, yeah, I love Spencer Tracy. I was like, I said, wait a minute. So I'm doing you doing Tracy. You're not, I'm not even doing you, you know. Now, is there any way you can demonstrate what your performance as Richard Dreyfuss was like? He needs to be full body. You know, he's got this thing where the way he walks, he kind of... Wait a minute. Let me try.

Ileana is getting up. We're on Skype looking at her. We should tell our listeners. We're looking at her living room and now she's standing up. He kind of... He does... You know, he does the bent over. Is that... That's pretty good.

It's pretty good. He's going to walk away, and then he goes, aha! And he's a great on-screen thinker. You know, as you talk, he goes, say, all right, talk to me as Richard. I'll be Richard Dreyfuss. You guys talk to me. Go ahead, Gil.

Okay. I think we caught the shark. Aha! Shark? OK, I think we caught the shark. Shark. I'm telling you what you did. He has this kind of cockiness, this belief in himself. And what I love about him is as the other person is talking, you know, he's kind of nodding like you can't wait until the other person is through because, you know, he's going to rip into him. Did you guys see him recently on Stephen Colbert?

No, no. I'll have to track that down. Yeah, it's interesting because there is no longer a place for Richard Dreyfuss on television. Wow. It's there. We just don't have the time. You know, that's why podcasts are so important. There's not the time on television for nuance anymore or for long,

prolonged comedy bits. Remember the old days? Comedian would come on and they'd kind of plan something. There's just. Oh, yeah. Steve Martin always brought a bit to the tonight show. There's like six, there's six minutes to come on.

And the person to me, Dreyfus needs, you need that nuance and that build for him. We're going to get them on this show. We're just, we're determined. Oh, you must've seen Mr.

Holland's opus a few times. It's a killer. He's just he has so much range. The movie is a killer. You go, I am not going to be taken in by this movie. He's got the deaf son. I'm not going to. And then by the end, you're bawling.

And in the book, you talk about that scene in The Goodbye Girl, and he's so funny in the film. And we'll just throw in youngest man to ever win the best actor and all of that. And you point out in the book last comedic performance to win in a lead role. Completely interesting topic. No one since Richard Dreyfuss has won Best Lead Actor. You can look it up. No one has won Best Leading Actor for a

comedic role since Richard Dreyfuss. Banner year because Diane Keaton won for Annie Hall the same year. That's the interesting year, yes. You talk about in the book that moment in The Goodbye Girl, and I know Gilbert knows this, and he's so damn funny in the film. But when he bombs in Richard III and they go backstage to see him and he's sitting there at the dressing table. Yeah.

And it's absolutely heartbreaking. It is. And there's this whole turn because it's this whole comic, you know, persona, you know, very cocky, very confident. And in that moment, you go, oh, wait a minute. Is this whole thing an act? Is he maybe more vulnerable than we had imagined? personally, he started this whole, again, idea of the comic personality, the comic, the schlubby guy that gets the girl. That's where it began with the goodbye girl. And you can see a whole people after him, you know, Jonah Hill, Seth Rogen, et cetera, that it begins with Richard Dreyfuss.

And I don't think anybody gives him credit for that. The vulnerability of the comedian who gets the girl, gets the girl because he's charming. And I think it's one of the not to make this about awards, but I think it's one of the years that Oscar really got it right. got it right. Oh. 77. And then two years later, they would get it wrong when Peter Sellers does not win

for playing Chance the Gardener in being there. It's hard to imagine. Loses to Dustin Hoffman. And I love Dustin Hoffman, but not for Kramer versus Kramer. I mean, it's a good movie, but it can't compare with Peter Sellers.

No, it's the performance of a lifetime. Yeah, and what about the growth of the popularity of the movie being there? Yeah. Which, again, went through, you know, it's another whole interesting topic. You guys love movies. But the death of Hal Ashby and Bob Fosse, I feel, really contributed to the lack of sensitivity in films. They were two really interesting filmmakers, and I feel like their loss is really felt. You know, Hal Ashby with movies like Coming Home, The Last Detail.

Oh, yeah. Bound for glory. Yeah. Yeah. You know, his his take on society, that social satire that being there is I really feel is missing. But being there is I think has gotten like an enormous repopularity because of our crazy political system. because of our crazy political system. But that's a great film. And to me, Peter Sellers in the movie is, I don't know, beyond reproach. It's a performance you can't even describe.

And Gilbert worked with Jack Warden. Oh, yeah. Who's in Being There. On three of the Problem Child movies. He was terrific. You know another Martin Scorsese favorite film, Problem Child, John Ritter. It pops up in Cape Fear. There you go. It's come full circle.

Yeah. Again, my whole goal in life is to work with people. I was working with John Ritter on a movie called Hacks. And I said, you know, by the way, Martin Scorsese is a huge fan of yours. He put Problem Child in Cape Fear as a little nod to you. So, yes. That's great.

He is a fan of that movie. I love Jack Warden. Oh, yeah. And it's like with Duddy Kravitz, they had both Jack Warden and Joseph Wiseman. Ah, the best. Yeah. Speaking of Fosse, did you and Richard ever talk about all that jazz and what happened?

No. Is he willing to talk about that? Do you know? No. I mean, the, you know, as I said, just with it's a shame that Fossey is not around. I think it's really it's really a shame. Well, you know, Dreyfus, you know, the goodbye girl, you know, of course, originally it was Robert De Niro. Right. Bogart slept here. Bogart slept here. Right.

And then it didn't work out. And but the goodbye girl, bring it back to Dustin Hoffman, apparently was based on Dustin Hoffman. Oh, yes. We've said this on the show. You talked about this when we talked about Goodbye Girl. Remember, Gilbert? Yeah. That's who it was originally based on, and that story, that's where the original idea came from. And I think Mike Nichols was directing the De Niro, Marsha Mason version before they rebooted it.

Yeah. And then Herbert Ross. It's really, you know, successful movies exist in a state of grace, right? Everything has to go right. Yes. And whatever happened to Max Rose? Because it also has Ben Gazzara, another favorite of mine. That's a good question. I don't know. I just heard Jerry Lewis and I wanted to be in it.

But after it went to Cannes, I don't I think that the screening in Cannes did not go well. Oh. Became like many other movies where it exists, but, you know, but I don't know if anyone has seen it. There is so much in the book, again, Ileana, which we want to say as we wind down, only because we'll all get exhausted. We could keep going. There is so much in the book i want you to tell the billy uh the uh the rudy valley story uh real quick if you can did you get to that part in the book oh yeah it's so touching i i mean it was sad and sweet it's you know it's interesting when i was writing the book and i wanted when i wanted to do the memoir I wanted to tell this memoir through movies and it was interesting when I was talking with my editor we had reached a point where

you know he wanted me to be talking more about my career and I'm like I don't care about like I haven't done anything interesting and I kind of like I had read these notes that were, you know, sort of challenging where I thought, geez, am I even on the right track? And I took a couple of days off and I said, you know what, I'm just going to write about something. I don't even know if it's going to go in the book, but let me write about an experience that I really had that profoundly changed my life. And that ended up being the Rudy Valley chapter, because, you know, my first experience being on the peripheries of show business was getting a little job at this place, the Camelot Dinner Theater. And Rudy Valley, who was in his 80s by that point, had come in to do this one man show and watching him for the seven days he was there perform kind of night after night uh just really changed my life he was such a trooper

and he kind of took a liking to me and on the last night that he was there and again i should say that rudy valley for people who don't know he invented crooning oh yeah yeah you know he was there. And again, I should say that Rudy Valli, for people who don't know, he invented crooning. Oh, yeah. He was a matinee idol. Yeah. And Bing Crosby was a fan of his. Frank Sinatra is a fan of Bing Crosby. So again, we have this whole trajectory

of show business. But I was so, it was like when he was performing it was like he wasn't this 85 year old man out in the boondocks of connecticut i saw this matinee idol you know performing and people giving him a standing ovation and cheering and on the last night he was there he invited me back to his dressing room, this like creepy little dingy dressing room at the Camelot Theater. And I thought, oh, boy, this is what my grandfather has warned me about. He's going to pounce on me and be my vagabond lover. But he took out this little very cheap G.E. tape recorder and he pressed play pressed play he said I want you to hear something

I think you'll appreciate that and we were sitting there in his dressing room and I was listening to this thing and I said is that the ocean I didn't know what it was I heard this like whooshing sound and he turned around and he looked this floor flourished with his hands and he said that's my applause and uh it was so touching because i thought you know in this moment like if you could be rudy valley if you could record applause, if you could somehow hold on to that joy that you've given people, that maybe in a sense, that is the essence of what show business is. Because so many times, you know, you leave the stage, you're only happy. I don't know any performer who's happy for more than 10 minutes.

Is that how long it lasts? If it lasts longer than 10 minutes, you tell me once you get off stage. Oh, it's, I always hear and I totally understand why some, why so many people in show business get on drugs. Because there's this high, you know, they're all applauding, they're worshiping you. And then, you know, you go back to your dressing room and you're sitting by yourself. And it wears it's like a magic spell that suddenly wears off. wears off. And so watching Rudy Valley listen to this applause on a cheap GE tape recorder that he had recorded, and this man had been like a giant in show business, I just thought, I saw the future of my own life as a performer. And I was like, wow, that's all it is. If you could somehow remember, try to remember

this joy that you've given people, which is impossible. But if you can try to remember that, that can somehow, you know, give you this sense of purpose that no matter where you are, that's all it is. It's very hard to retain. And your friend Roddy McDowell. I tried to incorporate that in the story of what it feels like, if that makes any sense. Oh, very much so. And your friend Roddy McDowell gave you similar advice,

hang on to the joy. Yes, very touching. Again, very interesting thing. He blew me away when he said that people like Marty Scorsese and Spielberg were beyond feeling any joy in their work. retain and hold on to joy. And that was what led to depression. And so these were things that people said to me very early on, and they were warning signs so that, you know, I didn't let myself fall into that trap of feeling depressed, of trying to, you know, trying to understand how do you retain joy? How do you hold on to that feeling of wanting to make audiences happy. It's very, very hard, very challenging. It's one of the profound things in the book that stays with you,

as well as the Rudy Valli story. Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, I was going to say it's a challenge because it is. It's like it goes up, you know, it disappears. I know all all the joy that I've ever experienced. Most of it has not been in real life. It's been in show business.

And that's that's always sort of weird because it's not really real. It's not it's not real. You're not supposed to get happiness. You're supposed to get happiness from holding babies. You know? You know? Your family tell you you love you. But if you don't have that,

the only other happiness you have is when someone you respect and admire says, hey, I saw your movie and, you know, I really dug it. And you're like incredibly happy. And then when you find it fleeting away, you're like, no, no, please don't let that feeling go away. So but that's what show business is. There is so much we could cover. There's so much in the book. The book is dense. There's I mean, there's there's stories. There's there's love of movies. Are you still doing the thing with TCM? Are you still doing second looks? Oh my goodness. Well, we, we were, we're developing the second looks actually into what could possibly be a web

series, which could be really interesting for the online community. But in the meantime, we're getting ready for the TCM film Festival, which is coming up in the end of April. And then we're doing Trailblazing Women. The first year we covered female directors. And now this year we're going to be covering female actresses, their social contributions. And we're going to start shooting that in July. So I'll still be doing that. It's all I watch is TCM, Gil. I don't know about you. I'm obsessed with it. And what are those movies? What are those posters? I was just going to ask her that. We should again tell our listeners we have Ileana on Skype. So we're looking at her den. I've been looking over your shoulder at that.

Have you been trying to figure out what they are and piece them together? So have I. What's the big one over your right shoulder? I've got Jules and Jim. Okay, it's a great one. I've got Some Came Running, DeMartin,

Robert Montgomery, Ride the Pink Horse. I've got Side Street. I've got The Nutty Professor. There you go, Gil. Oh, great. Signed by Jerry Lewis. That's a really good one.

And then I'm surrounded. Here, wait a minute. Hold on. She's turning the camera around. Hold on, hold on. Oh, look at that, Gil. Oh, wow. Hold on.

Oh, look at that, Gil. Oh, wow. A whole collage of Jerry Lewis in clown makeup in his regular. Yeah. And the MDA telethon tux and the whole thing. We don't have, we need headshots like this to come back. I know. Gilbert will send you one.

He'll sign one for you. With a series of looks. I love those kind of head shots. They always make me sad. There were ones that would come four shots. And one would be in like an army helmet. The other would be like a southern general. The other would be like a southern general. The other would be a playboy.

Or like a kung fu pose. Oh, yes. In a white karate suit. There's so much we could talk about. You're doing another book, so we'll have to do another episode. Yeah, I'm starting on my second book, which is called Nostalgia-holic. That's my, because I'm obsessed with the past. Ileana, one of the touching things in the book, and you talked about why podcasts are important, and this touched me. You said we all have, movies change our lives, and we all have to be living historians.

I think it's true. I mean, I think of myself as, you know, I mean, one of the weird, you know, hits. And there's been, you know, the book has been like extremely well reviewed and people love it. But every once in a while you get some like, you know, Internet Yahoo and it was like, oh, she's such a name dropper. But it's like to me, it's you know, I think of myself as a rememberer, you know, and I remember these stories and I'm trying to give voice to people that meant a lot to me. Who else is talking about Buddy Hackett or Rudy Valley or Jerry Lewis? We are on this show. That's about it. Constantly. Yeah, it's constantly although

i don't know if buddy hackett ever got shit on yeah i don't think so i don't think he was he didn't like cigarette smoke even no no one's talking about these you know what this is like this is like what is that movie fahrenheit uh four of a 451. I forgot. Yeah, I forgot the number. The one with the Ray Bradbury story? Yeah. Where they all had to walk around memorizing these books and reciting them. Yeah. Yeah.

Because all these books were gone. Well, that's, I mean, listen, when I'm on a film set, nobody knows who anybody is anymore. When I'm on a film set, nobody knows who anybody is anymore. So it's like in order to give film some context and you're talking about something, you know, the fact that nobody knows who Spencer Tracy is anymore. I know. It's really, you know, it's kind of frightening. I was at a table and these people are talking about Jack Benny. And one of them said, was Jack Benny ever funny? And the other one said, oh, the other people on this show were funny. But Jack Benny just kind of stood around. days I mean, so that's why I say, like, I'm trying to give context for some of these people that I've met along the way. You are, you know, and find their put their place properly in film someone who allegedly is a movie expert and I'll go, oh, my God, they're getting everything fucking wrong.

Well, that's true. There isn't. You know, in my day, again, because my grandfather was Melvin Douglas, you know, the Jew, I really had to have my movie history correct. I couldn't, like, screw up something with Greta Garbo because he'd actually worked with Greta Garbo. Of course. And we gave your uncle, your uncle, your grandfather a short shrift on this show, unfortunately. And there's so much we could also say about him.

I mean, he worked with Fay Wray and Greta Garbo and Dietrich and George Zuko, Gilbert, you would care about, and Loopy Velez and Karloff. Unbelievable. And what a career. Yeah. And Robert Redford. Right, of course. George C. Scott and the list goes on.

Lionel Atwill. Vampire Bat. These are the people Gilbert cares about. You say Robert Redford, he says Lionel Atwill. And George Zuko is one of my favorites. Yeah, look him up if you don't know him. I will as soon as this call is over. But no, I couldn't screw up my references, you know.

And now it's so weird. Like people just write stuff down and it's derivative and it's not even really accurate or reflective of what the person was really like. So in a sense, I'm trying to, again, give a voice to somebody, you know, like Marlon Brando or some of the people that I've worked with, like Robert De Niro. You know, nobody's ever written. De Niro. You know, nobody's ever written. We, you know, we, we think of Robert De Niro, but I thought, you know what, I'm going to write a whole chapter about what it is like to work with Robert De Niro because nobody writes, no one's done a profile of Robert De Niro. And you ever consider that? Yeah.

You said that when you were doing this dramatic scene in Cape Fear with Robert De Niro in between takes, you'd be acting out three stooges. Yes. That's right. He was into the three stooges. I know. Over my head. I don't.

I'm not even going to say I appreciate their humor. I'm not even going to say that. I do not. Well, that's sacrilege. And I don't want to fucking talk to you anymore. We're missing some chromosome. They're waving a flashlight at us, a Jerry Lewis flashlight, telling us to wrap it up. Okay.

We're going to wrap it up. But we'll do it again. Okay. We hope you'll come back. There's so much we didn't cover. We'll come back real soon. After the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival, I'll have it again. Okay. We hope you'll come back. There's so much we didn't cover. We'll come back real soon. After the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival, I'll have more gossip on everybody. We'll come to New York and we'll do it live.

Yes. I'm sorry. You can blame the airline that, you know, well, it's the one that is, if you don't have sex with anyone, they call you a blank. Wait a second. A virgin. Yeah. You said it. You said it, not her.

Before I forget, I got kicked out of the Metropolitan Museum of Art after a screening of Goodfellas. What? I said, where's the party at? of goodfellas what i said where's the party at and the guy waves his hand the guy behind his desk and security guards grabbed me and threw me outside is this true yes absolutely true and then i finally got back inside and some woman was following me around saying that she thought I was taking pictures. And so let me just say, fuck you, Metropolitan and Museum of Art. Did you tell Marty this? I did.

What did he say? He didn't react at all. He's an asshole. Fuck Marty Scorsese. He's going to call you now. You You're gonna be in vinyl like next week You're gonna be like Ray Romano There you go Gil you should be so lucky We'll have you back

When you're in New York we'll talk more about Your grandfather's films and more stuff From the book And I'll contaminate you with Jewish blood Thank you Now we've We've been talking to And I'll contaminate you with Jewish blood. Thank you. Now, we've been talking to actress, producer, director, and now writer. And film historian.

Yeah, and film historian, Ileana Douglas. And she's got her new book out, I Blame Dennis Hopper and Other Stories from a Life Lived in and Out of Movies. And most importantly, she is the granddaughter of Jew actor Melvin Douglas. He used to bill himself as that, didn't he? Yeah, he did. He did. The book is phenomenal, too. I just want to say to our listeners, our loyal podcast listeners, it's a memoir. It's a film history book. It's a movie

guide. There's so much in here. It's so dense. I appreciate that. I want them to read it and then they can write me if they have any questions. As I said, I'm going to do a follow up. So I got a bunch more stories in me.

It's great. And to go out, Ileana, you said I heard you say that you wanted to marry Groucho when you were growing up. Oh, my God. There was something wrong with me. So quick. He was like wrong with me. So quick. He was my, like, again, yeah, it was, again, another, it was delusional. I was like, I used to be obsessed with marrying Groucho Marx. I didn't get to meet him.

I meant to cab it, though. Close enough. So just to get you into your sexual fantasy. Here you go. You're lying in bed now, and an elderly Groucho Marx is on top of you wearing his beret going, Oh, I'm going to shake my dick. No. Don't ruin it for her.

He's going around the house doing his cigar. I'm going to go down on you now. Keep it clean, Groucho. He's singing Lydia the Trout Toot Lady. Not my fantasy. Lydia the Trout Toot Lady. Ileana, this has been fantastic. Thank you.

A lot of fun. Ileana Douglas. Thank you. And this has been Gilbert. Thank you. A lot of fun. Ileana Douglas. Thank you. And this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre at Nutmeg Post with Frank Ferdarosa. Thank you, Frank. Thank you again. And I really hope to see you in person again soon.

You will. I promise. I promise. Bye-bye. Very soon. Bye. Bye.