Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: John Astin

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

In celebration of his 92nd birthday (March 30, 1930), Gilbert and Frank revisit this (long sought-after!) 2019 interview with actor and director John Astin, who looks back on a 60+ year career in films and television, recalls his collaborations with Doris Day, Cary Grant, Rod Serling and Jonathan Winters and reveals the positive impact that "The Addams Family" has had on his life. Also, John spoofs Hugh Hefner, records an early "rap" single, chews the scenery on "Batman" and meets the one, the only Groucho. PLUS: "Evil Roy Slade"! "I'm Dickens, He's Fenster"! The comedic genius of Nat Perrin! The strange death of Edgar Allan Poe! And John remembers dear friends Jackie Coogan and Carolyn Jones! (Special thanks to Patrick McCarthy, Robb Spewak and Sean and MacKenzie Astin)  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough for something so fantastic. Fantastic! So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks.

Colossal classic. i'm larry charles and you're listening to gil Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and our engineer Frank Verderosa. Well, we started this podcast over four years ago, and for at least two of his two, count them, two talented sons, Sean and Mackenzie, we're thrilled to say he's finally here. Bravo. He's a highly distinguished acting teacher and drama teacher, an Oscar-nominated director of films and television, and one of the most admired and beloved actors of his generation. You've seen him in pretty much everything. The movies West Side Story, That Touch of Mink, Candy, Viva Max, Freaky Friday, Gremlins 2, The New Batch, European Vacation, and The Twilight Zone, Route 66, Batman, The Odd Couple, I'm Dickens, He's Fenster, Night Court, Tales from the Crypt, Mad About You, and of course, as the lustful and eccentric Gomez Adams on the original version of The Addams Family.

He's also voiced roles in animated programs, directed features in well-known series, directed an Academy Award-nominated short, acted on Broadway, and toured the world in a one-man show about the life of Edgar Allan Poe. He's even shared the small screen with me, Gilbert Gottfried. with me, Gilbert Gottfried. Please welcome to the podcast one of our favorite performers and a man who says he's still sore from the stunts he did on the Addams Family 55 years ago. The legendary and elusive John Ashton. Gilbert, I will

take three boxes of those introductions. You came on just like a candy butcher there in the old burlesque shows. They used to sell stuff when they were changing the scenes backstage at the Gaiety Theater here in Baltimore. Ladies and gentlemen, well, they're changing the scenes backstage.

That's what he sounded like? Almost like a carnival barker. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. I loved it. Now, here's something. He's really here. Pinch me, Gilbert. Yeah. That was, I loved it. I loved it. Now, here's something. He's really here.

Pinch me, Gilbert. Yes, I know. Yeah. You've been one of those from the early on. We've been saying we've got to get John Ashton on here. In my office, I have three different lists of guests and his name. John, your name is on top of all three of them. I was going to take pictures and send them to you. So this is

a two and a half year project. You know, we've called the theater about 12 times. I know. I've been busy. We had Gino Salamone on the job. We sent letters.

You're finally here. Thanks to Sean and McKenzie. Yeah. Well, yeah, I have three other kids. They could have helped, too, if you'd known. We were getting close to that. We're glad you're finally here. Now, here's something. When I was a kid watching the Addams Family, I wanted to ask you this.

family, I wanted to ask you this. And that's like, in the cartoons, the Charles Adams cartoons, the father looks like Peter Lorre. Yeah, he does. It's interesting, I was a huge fan of Charles Adams before I ever knew there would be a series at all. When I was in college, my roommate and I would buy a

one of those volumes, you know, like, I forget what they called them, but Monster Rally or something, and we would razor out the our favorite cartoons, frame them, and put them on the wall

of the room we shared. And I had no idea that it would eventually become a series. And so when it was to become a series, I was introduced to it in a very strange way. The head of the studio took the desk. It wasn't his office.

The meeting was in. He sat there, though, at the, you know, the head of the studio always sits at the desk if there is a desk. Is that John Kelly? No, no. Actually, John was Marty Ransom. Oh, Marty Ransom.

Yeah, and John was his assistant. I see. At that time. And he is the person who first came to me. Actually, you're going back there because I was in a movie called The Wheeler Dealers with Jim Garner and Lee Remick. And a lot of people like Phil Harris. Oh, yeah. Everybody's in that one.

Yeah. Jim Backus. Jim Backus, Charlie Watts. Right. Who was the third person of those three guys? Oh, God. I can't remember the name. One of them was Phil Harris, and the other one was Charlie Watts.

Charlie Watts. Right. And who was the third one? Was it Dub Taylor? No. No. It wasn't Dub Taylor. I'll think of it.

I just watched it, too. Anyway, I was in it, and they got a lot of preview cards on me, and so they decided they wanted to do stuff with me. Filmways did. And so John and I, Callie, we went out to dinner and had a really nice time. He's a great guy. And he had three projects, and one of them was the series,

and there were two movies that he had in mind. And actually, I wanted to do the movies, but I hadn't heard that the series was to be about the Addams Family. There was no such thing as the Addams Family. That was the name that David Levy, who created the show, came up with. Because the characters, just to refresh people's memory, the characters in the panel cartoons didn't have names. No.

They weren't called Gomez or Morticia or Adams even. That came later. No. I'm shaking my head thinking that because I can see you on our FaceTime, that the listeners can see me. No, audio only. I'm nodding. Also, that's interesting too, John.

The other two projects they talked to you about in that meeting were The Loved One. How did you know? And The Americanization of Emily. How did you know that? Oh,ization of Emily. How did you know that? Oh, I do some deep research, my friend. Wow. Where was that? Because Arthur Hiller was involved.

I'd forgotten that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, Arthur. Arthur. Yes. yes, Arthur was involved because he had I had done another pilot film and series

before that called I'm Dickens' Fenster and Arthur directed the pilot film and the first two or three episodes and so Directed the pilot film and the first two or three episodes. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, it never occurred to me until now that Arthur may have recommended me for that show.

Could be. Didn't he direct the Addams Family presentation, Arthur Hiller? Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh... There you go. But I thought it was this, uh... Well, when Marty described the show to me,

Marty Rantzoff, he said, uh... First place, he said first place he said the very unlikely thing that I would it would be a non-exclusive deal you know first network series

ever non-exclusive and I would get a lot of money and top billing, and there was something else. Oh, yeah, I was going to play Lurch. Oh, yes.

I was going to play the butler. And so I started thinking of imagining myself wearing lifts and how I would stand as the butler and how could they build a show around him. During the meeting, everyone was seated in a comfortable chair, except for one guy who was on a straight back wooden chair in the middle of the room, the most awkward position a guy could have.

And he said something, and I said, what's your name, and what have you done? And he said, well, my name is David Levy, and I was vice president of Young and Rubicam for 20 years, and then I was vice president of NBC in charge of programming. Oh, okay, I said, that's pretty good. And fortunately, he chuckled. It turned out he was a lifelong friend. We became close friends. But after the meeting, I went away thinking, this will never happen. And I got a phone call almost as soon as I got home from David Levy.

And he said, what you heard at the meeting is it's not really my idea for this show. And I'd like to meet with you as soon as possible. I said, what about right now? He said, that's good. Meet me at the Polo L lounge at the Beverly Hills hotel. Nice. And I love their martinis. And so I,

I, I met with David and, uh, he said, uh, I don't want you to do the Butler. He said, he said,

this show is really father knows best, but with different people. And, uh, I love it. I want you to be the father. And, uh, Father knows best, but with different people. I love it. I want you to be the father. That sounded great to me. We started exchanging ideas. The result was a presentation film and following that

you know a crazy couple of years on the air that changed your life it did I was asked to be one of the people doing eulogy for Charles Adams

when he passed away they had a wonderful gathering at the New York Public Library. And I said that Charles Adams and I shared something, this notoriety and association that neither of us had ever expected. That, you know, whenever I appeared outside the house, I would hear snaps, finger snaps behind me and people going, ba- boom, boom, boom.

And, uh... Big Mizzy. And, yeah. And the, uh... He was a friend of David's. That's how he came to write that wonderful tune. What I didn't know at the time is that he had a lot of standards to his credit.

Big Mizzy, yeah. He had a big career. Yeah. And, you know, the Addams Family theme was just one of them, but that outdistanced everything he ever did. Well, they're still playing it in ballparks. Yeah. To rally the team.

They're creepy and they're spooky. They're old again. They're kooky. The house is a museum. That's it. You really ought to see. Now, what I wanted to ask you. Those aren't quite the lyrics. He's in the ballpark.

Yeah. You're in the ballpark. What I wanted to ask you is when I would watch you and the way you delivered the lines and the faces you made and the way you held your cigar, I remember thinking, this guy must be a Groucho Marx fan. Yeah, it's funny. to Nat Perrin one day, I said, Nat, there are people who compare me to Groucho Marx and some to Peter Sellers and some to Ernie Kovacs. Ernie Kovacs, yeah.

I said, what do you do about something like that? And he said, my boy, they're all good. Don't knock it. Good advice. But the funny thing is i never thought about groucho when i was working on gomez it never occurred to me but when i think back as a kid, I dressed up on Halloween as Groucho Marx. Wow.

Oh, man. And my brother dressed as Harpo, and a kid named Donnie Hall up the block, he was Chico. That's great. And the three of us went to school. They're Marx brothers. Wow. And this was in the 30s, you know, when they were very, very, had a great vogue in the 30s.

Well, we should point out, too, just make clear to our listeners, too, that there's a connection there. We were talking before we turned the mics on because one of the showrunners or the head writer on The Addams Family was the legendary Nat Perrin, who had written for the marxists yeah actually that's how he came to hollywood yeah they brought him out to hollywood to write for them and uh uh he uh you know he was uh uh one of their favorite people. I know whenever there was a tiff among the brothers,

they would go to Nat to adjudicate the whole thing. I didn't realize that. He was a very reasonable guy and a very wise man. He was not the head writer. He was the producer of the show. And while his hand was in every script, he rarely took credit for it. But so many of the funny things came from that. He was critical to the show.

Even though he was not part of most of the first show which was the demonstration and I think it was about 20 minutes long I want to ask you about something that was written by Ed James and Seaman Jacobs Seaman Jacobs, yeah. Yeah, or Cy as we used to call him. And they had done some very good work on it before Nat arrived.

Did you ever meet the great Groucho? Did you ever meet the great Groucho? The director of the show, a guy named Sidney Landfield, took me to – what's the name of the country club? Hillcrest. Hillcrest, yeah, yeah. He took me to Hillcrest one day and I looked up and I found

Groucho staring at me. And I was perplexed by that, but pleased. But I don't remember whether I smiled at him or not. He never smiled at me, though. And so I wondered, I asked Nat,

was that some possible criticism coming from Groucho? And he said, no, no, no. He's a very kind man. What about something Gilbert alluded to in the intro? And I've seen this in interviews with you, John. And that was the physicality of the character. That you would get in the lotus position. You would hang upside down.

Yeah. Difficult on the body. Well, that began on I'm Dickens He's Fenster actually Oh yeah you guys did a lot of pratfalls I did a lot of pratfalls I had the feed lines

and the pratfalls and you know Marty had the jokes and if I went out a window there there was a close-up on him observing it. So it started there. And an empty window. I'm just kidding a little bit. But it was tough.

When they found out, because in the theater theater i had done a lot of that stuff and it just came naturally to me uh and i had no training in it or uh oh maybe uh maybe a little uh i guess i guess there was a little training and how to fall and all that stuff, but it doesn't do you any good. I mean, you get hurt anyway. But until I encountered the Hollywood stuntmen, and you see, this was a multiple camera show, and it had a lot of physical gags in it.

And I was always grateful when more people were in the show because I knew they were stunt people who had come in to do gags like that. It was a multiple camera show, and you needed the cement floor for the cameras. and you needed the cement floor for the cameras. But, you know, when you fall on cement, it doesn't go anywhere. Except into your body. When you watch the Addams Family today, that's something that you notice right away as you're doing rolls from a headstand and you're doing flips

and you're doing yoga moves and all kinds of, and hanging by your feet and trapeze moves. Well, I've been fortunate enough to have flexible limbs. The first time I did the headstanding thing, they wired me up

and I didn't like that. And I, there was a guy, the headstanding thing, they wired me up on it. And I didn't like that. And I, I, there was a guy who did stunts for me all the time, a guy named Chuck couch. He did stunts for many people in the movies. He was a former acrobat and he had done all kinds of great stuff. And he said, do you want to stand on your head? I said, yeah. And he said, do you want to stand on your head? I said, yeah.

And he said, okay, here's how you do it. And so the next time I had a headstanding thing, I went up on my head. And when I did personal appearances, people would say, hey, stand on your head. Like a fool, I would do it. Oh, man. Wherever it was. Please your fans. And what the critics all pointed out with the Addams Family, that was the first sitcom where the man and woman were actually having sex.

Or implied. Yeah. Yes, we didn't have it on camera. We kept that to ourselves. Well, it was clear that they had the hots for each other, which was relatively new to television at that time. Yeah, yeah. And it was, I got to say this for Carolyn,

we never really talked about it, but it turned out that we were both attracted. Each of us was attracted by the other. And so it was very easy to do those scenes. I mean, I found her ravishing and wonderful, you know, but and we kept it strictly professional. We

didn't play Gomez and Morticia off camera. As much as you wanted to. Beautiful. That's right. Beautiful woman. And we had a very serious talk before she passed away. And in the course of this conversation, we acknowledged how each of us felt about the other

and that we restrained ourselves from consummating it because we wanted to stay professional, number one. Number two, we wanted to keep that passion inside so it could come out in the work. Wow. And without talking to one another about it, we both decided to do the same thing. And I didn't know it until about a week before she passed on. And it's funny that— We were, by the way way friends for life yeah you delivered

the eulogy at her at her service right john yep yeah yeah i did wonderful talent it's funny to think that back then there was no sex in sitcoms and then it became a thing like it was almost like a rule that you had the couple always ready to run up the stairs to the imaginary bedroom. Yeah, well, I think we started it. I used to do a joke commercial for the show in which I said, my wife Morticia and I are the only well-adjusted couple on television. And after that, you're right. I think everyone wanted to put the stork out of business.

Yeah. You always saw it as one of the most well- a well-adjusted family as a family of people who loved who loved life yeah and weren't afraid to show it you found the show life-affirming yeah i uh actually that's what i found in charlie's cartoons wow i uh uh see when i when we were talking about doing this show, so I started thinking about the cartoons, trying to figure out what they were all about. Because you have, let's say, the Morticia character

going to a neighbor's house and saying, may I borrow a cup of cyanide? two-lane hill and seeing a semi barreling downhill is waving on the driver in back of him. And, you know, do we see the crash? Do we see what Morticia does with the cyanide? In that wonderful cartoon in which the family is on the roof and Christmas carols. Oh, yeah. And they've got to molten something or other. And do they pour it?

And do we watch the carolers writhe in pain? No. All the violence in the cartoons, he never really carried out the violence in the cartoons. I mean, you could say, I know there's one that really struck me. There's a couple living in a house in the jungle. And there's a giant snake with a lump inside of it.

there's a giant snake with a lump inside of it. And there's a woman sitting on the porch saying, oh dear, stop grumbling. Something like that. And that's the closest I can recall Charles Adams coming to an actual violent ending to something. Although we don't know, maybe the guy lives. And Uncle Fester, played by Jackie Coogan, and there's actually, for people who don't know this,

a law on the books called the Coogan Law. Oh, sure. Because he was a child actor, made a fortune, and his parents didn't leave him with a dime. Worked with Chaplin. Yes, the kid. The kid. That's not exactly how it worked. And that's not exactly how it worked.

Jack and his mother were separated. Jack and his mother and his father were separated. And Jack spent all his time with his dad. There was a terrible car accident just before Jack was 21. And his father was killed in the accident. So his mother gained control over all of the millions that Jack had earned. And she gave him some of it, but not that much. And there was a big to-do about it.

And they passed that law to ensure that kids got their fair amount. And the parents are allowed to deduct a certain amount of money. So that's the origin of Coogan's Law. Interesting. He was so funny on that show, John. You both were. Was he something of a character in real life, Jackie Coogan? One of the most interesting people I ever worked with.

And we traveled together a number of times. That's another eulogy I did. In fact, Jack was so much fun to work with. Everybody on the show was. We love Ted Cassidy, too. Gilbert and I are fans. Yeah, he and I were close friends. Coogan always reminded me

when I listened to him of Curly from the Three Stooges a little bit of that quality yeah except broad as Jack may have been his all of his stuff had a basis in reality

you know he was a very good actor. Yeah. And he did a lot of great stuff. He's a good child actor. I mean, if you see the kid, he tears your heart out. Go back and watch it. It's fantastic.

I've seen it many times. So have we, yeah. Actually, yeah. It's fantastic. I've seen it many times. So have we, yeah. Well, you know, after this analysis of the cartoons, I am saying, what is he doing? And I came to the conclusion that Charles Adams was trying to wake us up to the wonder of life. Uh-huh.

And, you know, look at this magnificent spider. Yeah. I mean, the spider is fascinating. It's, you know, it's exciting if it doesn't bite you. And the same with a snake. If it doesn't bite you, you know, that, and the same with a snake. Threatening things are, are interesting. Oh yeah, those cartoons are dark, but there's glee and joy in them.

Yeah. They're very joyful. And he influenced many cartoons. That's why Gomez was there to appreciate the wonder of life. It's exciting. And I heard that Pugsley didn't have a – I heard it was kind of rough on him. Oh, Ken Weatherwax. Yeah. It was.

He got kidded a lot about being Pugsley. And he got kidded a lot about being Pugsley. And, you know, that's got to be tough on a kid to be playing somebody they want to make fun of. And I heard it even went into his adult years. They would know he was Pugsley and start mocking him. Well, he kind of got a kick out of it after a while. He did? Yeah, because we did a few appearances in which, you know, Ken would talk about the show with fans and so on.

I'm glad he got some enjoyment out of it. Hello, this is Ove Villachez, and we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing collage podcast right after this. Gifting Dad can sometimes hit the wrong note. Oh. Instead, gift the Glenlivet, the single malt whiskey that started it all, for a balanced flavor and smooth finish.

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Dine-in only until 11 a.m. at A&W's in Ontario. Dine-in only until 11 a.m. at A&W's in Ontario. Gil and Frank went out to pee. Now they're back so they can be on their amazing Colossal Podcast. Podcast. Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Podcast. So, let's go. You know, it's funny.

Tell our fans to watch the movie The Wheeler Dealers because that's the beginning of Gomez. Because that character that you play, that crazy regulator in that movie, I'm forgetting his name, but he was the over-eager. He was so eager to get a conviction. Yeah. And it's a very manic part. And by the way, that and that touch of mink, you were very good at playing sleazy characters, John.

Yes. The Beasley character in that touch of mink, which I also just watched again. Both that character and the character in The Wheeler Dealer are real sleazoids. They are that. And interesting that they saw something that made them think of you for Gomez. Yeah. To be named later Gomez. I thought that the romance between Morticia and Gomez should be in the grand style and filled with great passion and love with these unusual people.

And, of course, that became a feature of the show because Nat picked up on it. One nice thing about doing that show was that if you had an idea, you could go to them, and there was no ego trip on Nat's part. He was ready to grab anything that worked as was David. Oh, that's great. Uh, and,

uh, so I remember, uh, I, uh, I wrote a little bit to put into one of the shows and, uh, uh,

uh, I had, I had actually, uh, Ted was looking out the peephole, I guess, in the door, if there was one, or a crack in the door, who was outside. I don't remember who it was. But he made that moan, that groan, you know, kind of, uh, you know. It was like a growl almost.

And in that marvelous voice of his. And I said to the director, could we get a close-up of that when he does that? And then I wrote a little bit where we were going to go into politics and Lurch would appeal to the women. I remember. And we cut to Lurch and he goes, I broke myself up.

But that's... So they were accepting. It was that kind of set. Yeah, Ted was wonderful as an actor. He really wanted to play Hamlet. Amazing. Would have been a very interesting Hamlet. Very interesting.

Todd Young, the poor thing. You have a lot of your career is owed to Tony Randall. Oh, yeah. I had the good fortune to be in, ostensibly to cover Eli Wallach, but Burgess Meredith had to, this was a play by Shaw called Major Barbara. And Lawton, Charles Lawton, did a production of it on Broadway. And the character of Bill Walker was played by Eli, and they wanted somebody to cover him, and I ended up covering lots of people in the show.

And when Burgess had to, he was one of the producers of Dial M for Murder. And when it was opening, his services were required. And so he had to leave the play for about, I don't know, it was something like eight or ten performances, something like that.

And so, excuse me, Richard Lupino was his understudy, and I covered Dick in the part of Charles Lomax. in the part of Charles Lomax. And so when I went on as Lomax, I had a very good experience with it. Lawton directed it and gave me an idea for the character. That really worked. And I had a good British accent. And so it scored, and I had lots of, got lots of agents to come and see it.

However, no one wanted to sign me, but that's the way it goes. But you were on Broadway. Yeah. That's the way it goes. But you were on Broadway. Yeah, but many people in show business saw that play, and one of them was Tony Randall. And so four years later, when I came in to read for a summer package that Tony was doing, Tony looked at me and says, I know you! You know, that way he did.

Very excitable. Yeah, and I knew then I had the part, you know, because he paid me a lot of compliments on the role. And so we hit it off and we we had a great time in this play and uh let me get a little sip of water go ahead uh it's good stuff. I was waiting for you to do a Gleason take. We used to go, ah, it pays to buy the best.

So we had all kinds of fun doing that and I Tony and Patricia Barry who was also in the play encouraged me to come to California I guess we were in Chicago at that point and

I ended up going directly to California, and Patricia and Phil, her husband, put me up for quite a few weeks until I got settled and found a place and brought the rest of the family out to California. And, uh, uh, I should have, uh, Tony made many overtures to me, uh, to do stuff with him. Uh,

and even, uh, I know when I did, uh, uh, HMS Pinafore in New York, Tony called me up and he said, John, write down five plays you like, and I'll put one of them on with you in it. I mean, and why I didn't follow up on it, I don't know. Interesting. I know, had I been wise, I would have. And that was not the only overture that he made to me over the years.

The only one I took him up on was they said they needed somebody on the, was it the Odd Couple? Oh, where you play the Hugh Hefner character. Yeah. Yeah. Buff Buffington. Buffy. Buffy.

Buffy, they call him. Yes. I always remember that as the episode without a laugh track. Correct. Yes. Very good, Gilbert. Yes. You get an A.

Every now and then I pay attention. Yeah. They were trying to show. The show didn't get good ratings originally or didn't get enough of an audience for them or something. And they wanted to show that the show could be funny without a laugh track. They were both trying to get them not to use a laugh track, I think. And that was the show.

And they stayed on the air. You were very funny in that part. It was funny. You decided, I guess, to play it as a loony character. Did I? I don't remember. Go back. Have Mac fire it up and show it to you.

Maybe I was just loony. You played him as a real eccentric. And now that we're talking about Tony Randall, I'm picturing John in the Oscar role. I'm wondering what you would have done with that. Wow. Who knows? Yeah. But I could see you doing it. Who knows? Yeah. But I could see you doing it.

Who knows? Yeah. I can too. A little trivia, by the way, about that Major Barber cast, and this is just for our listeners, that three of those actors, Eli Wallach, Burgess Meredith, and yourself,

what did they all have in common? They all played villains on the Batman series. Ah. All three of you went on on the Batman series. Ah. All three of you went on to do that series, which is a little fun piece of trivia. Did you face any opposition from fans when you took over the role of the Riddler? Well, I just did it for two one-hour shows. So I never had a chance to assess the reaction to it.

I had a ball. I loved doing that show. It was a whole lot of fun. You could show the scenery. Yeah, yeah. I had always wanted to run around in my underwear in public. You know?

And so it you know, it's I'm happy they gave me that opportunity. I want to ask you too about being a young actor, John, John,

and was your first screen appearance when, when, uh, when, uh, the studio one production, was it live television? Uh,

night, the ninth America trembled. No, uh, that, that, that was not my first. Okay.

Uh, the, my first appearance was on a Robert Montgomery Presents. I didn't even find that in the research. Wow. No. Well, I was an extra. I see.

But in those days, you had to get a SAG card or an after card, rather, after card to be an extra in New York. Not in Hollywood, but in New York. to be an extra in New York. Not in Hollywood, but in New York. And so that was my first professional union, actually. And I got it, I got it from an association that I formed where we're broadcasting, where I'm broadcasting from now,

Johns Hopkins University. Oh, tell us what that connection is. Where I work. Yeah. No, I run the theater department here, and I'm very busy. That's why you didn't hear from me we know we didn't give up though i made students my first priority yeah of course good for you yeah i realized that taxes come before that so so tony's, was that Abby Greshler?

Yeah. By the way, that's how Murray the Cop got his last name. Murray Greshler. It was an homage. It was an homage to, I believe he also handled

Neil Simon or I could be, or Klugman. He handled Tony. He handled Tony. Yeah. And you started working. I mean, going through your IMDb credits, which is fun to do, and I found that the night America trembled with you

and very young Warren Beatty and Vincent Gardena and Ed Asner. Yeah, that was done in New York. Yeah, yeah. Norman Rose, the voice of God, was on that one, Gilbert. I once did a voiceover somewhere. How about that? And Norman Rose was there, and he was unbelievable to watch. And these are fun. I'm going through these, John.

And you did Maverick. That was my first show in Hollywood. Oh, with your pal James Garner. No, it was Roger Moore, who was the Maverick that week. Oh, wow. A rare moment. James Bond as Maverick. Yes, I remember. Frank and I are trying to figure out, did you ever meet Rod Serling?

Oh, yeah. I directed a number of shows that Rod wrote. Oh, Night Gallery. Yeah. And we were on game shows at the same time. I think that's how I met him, in fact. But I thought a great deal of Rod.

He changed television. Sure did. And through his diligence and talent. Well, you were in that Twilight Zone episode with Cliff Robertson. Yeah. You certainly must remember doing that one. I do. A hundred yards over the rim.

I didn't meet Rod at that time. Okay. But while I was doing that show in Lone Pine, California, that's where I heard that I'm Dickens, He's Fenster was going to be on the air. Love it. And tell us about I'm Dickens, He's Fenster. And a guy I love reading about is the creator of that show. Leonard Stern? The great Leonard Stern, who also created Get Smart.

Right. And he tells a funny story, too, about pitching on Dickens. He's Fenster, which we won't go into here, but it's on a YouTube interview with Leonard. Oh, yeah? Yeah, where he went in and basically just winged it, and he never actually wound up telling them the premise of the show. He was just trying to make them laugh for half an hour, but they bought it. And you and Marty were a fun tandem. to one of those cabins at the Beverly Hills Hotel

and talked into doing an improvisation for a couple of other people in the room. We didn't realize that was the network president and vice president. Wow. In charge of programming. And that's how the show got sold. Or the casting of the show got sold. Right, right, right.

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Leonard Stern, an interesting guy who also invented Mad Libs, Gilbert. Oh, wow. Did you know that? And Mel Tolkien, the great Mel Tolkien was on that show, was he not? On the Dickinson-Penster. Yeah, from Sid Caesar.

Mel was the head writer. Yeah. I learned a tremendous amount from Mel. He was a theorist about comedy. And actually, there are things that I learned from Mel that I use when I'm teaching about what makes a good play and so on. Oh, that's great. The source of humor. Mel maintained that all humor involves an immigrant.

Oh, I've heard you talk about this. This is the shattering of the context. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. When did you hear that? Oh, I do lots and lots of research, John. You must be in the stacks all the time. I'm an idiot savant, you see.

I don't know about the savant part. But I can vouch. We're doing I'm Santo Padre, he's Gottfried. And you toured the country as Edgar Allan Poe. He went to Australia. He went farther than the country. Edgar Allan Poe. Yeah. He went to Australia.

He went farther than the country. Australia and Ireland. Yeah. We went both places. Yeah. Now, here's what I want to know, because I hear varying stories. How did Edgar Allan Poe die? We don't really know. I mean, he was found near death in a pub or an inn or a pub and taken to the hospital. And he lived about four days or so.

hospital and he lived about four days or so uh but uh he disappeared for uh a number of days he was on his way to baltimore he got on a steamer in richmond and uh uh nobody knows what happened. There are lots of theories extant. And there's some very interesting theories, but some people think that he was accosted and he probably had an allergy to alcohol. He couldn't handle a lot of it.

And he was actually an abstainer until things got bad. And he had so much tragedy in his life. Lots of it. And he would go for a drink. And, uh,

uh, even if it's just wine, uh, uh, it would send him off on a toot. And, uh, and,

uh, so it was in a way his enemy in life. Uh, uh, in a way, his enemy in life. And they think maybe, I mean, one of the theories is that he was in one of these coups that they kept people in, alcoholics generally, and send them out to vote, and then send them to another precinct to vote, and so forth, on election day. There was an election around the time he died. Then there are people who theorize that he was pursued by the sons of the woman he was going to marry. And done in by them. Oh, interesting.

And what were some of the tragedies in his life? And what were some of the tragedies in his life? Well, generally, any woman that he loved seemed to be doomed. His mother died in her early 20s. The mother of a friend who was the first person to encourage his writing she died uh young uh his own wife virginia uh died at 24 mtb and and uh yeah and uh his stepmother, of whom he was very fond, she died young. And in spite of a tragic life, and most people I would consider Poe's work to be, or what they know of Poe the person, to be morose. You said you tried to find the joy joyfulness and the and and the wit well it was there it was there yeah uh well you tried to bring it out i should say yeah yeah i i

uh and that was easy there was plenty of humor to uh put in the show you know we we didn't have any problem with that. He invented the detective story. We know that. He was also the first journalistic critic. And he wrote some reviews that held a certain amount of humor, although it may not have been in favor of the work he was reviewing. But he was very creative in that way. Did you enjoy that? I will direct our listeners, by the way, too.

There's a YouTube performance of you performing or reading The Raven. It's online. Is that the one? That's the one I did for. Did that come from CBS or did that come from Maryland Public Television? I can't tell. I watched it last night. Forgive me.

I did The Raven for Maryland Public Television. And there are parts of The Raven that I did for a Sunday morning show, for the show called Sunday Morning on CBS. I heard you say the show was big in Australia in part because they love the Adams family so much. You were playing at big houses there. Yeah. Yeah. We sold out most of the time.

That's great. And now I'm going to totally put you on the spot and feel free to say no. Can you do a tiny portion of the Raven for us? Well, what about the copyright? He's too smart for you, Gil. That's... I forget how it goes. Yeah. Something like once upon a midnight dreary.

Okay, I got it. Once upon a midnight dreary. While I pondered weak and weary over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore while I nodded nearly napping suddenly there came a tapping as of someone gently rapping rapping at my chamber door. To some visitor I muttered,

tapping at my chamber door, only this and nothing more. Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December and each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor. Then it goes on. Wonderful.

Wow. What a treat. Another few minutes. Wow, that was terrific. It's a very long poem. Yes, beautifully done. John, here's... Well, it's not just...

It's not the only thing he wrote. I mean, there's a canon of extraordinary. Oh, I love the stories as a boy. The Cask of a Montalado and Telltale Heart. Yeah. Grow up on that stuff. I'd watch all these, you know, different movies that had names of Edgargar allen all those call those corman pictures but none of them had anything to do with the stories no loosely based yeah yeah they were very

frustrating like yourself i first came upon poe when my mother suggested I read the Purloined Letter. And I was no more than 11 years old. Maybe less. I don't know. But I have a clear memory of that because when I was 12, we moved to another residence. And the effect of reading it was so strong that I looked up at the room I was in

which was in that old that little old house and I was stunned by the denouement of that show of that story.

And I examined the room I was in very carefully to see if there was a place where the purloined letter could be hidden. Wow. It was really exciting. And you were hooked for life. Yep, I was. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this.

I just want to go back. We jump around here, John, and I just want to say one more thing about I'm Dickens. He's Fenster that I found in my research, and you might know this, you might not. I read that Stan Laurel was a fan of the show. I didn't know that. Had you heard that? I read that Stan Laurel was a fan of the show. I didn't know that. Had you heard that? I may have, yeah. I may have.

That show got the same phrase was used by two national magazines, like Time and something else, they said the best new show in years. And when it was going off the air, I remember there was a critic in Canada who said they may be canceling the best show ever on television. Wow. Wow.

That's what they said. About that. And Stan Laurel, that's praise from Caesar. Praise from Caesar. And, you know, Mel was, he and Don Hinckley did most of the writing. Mel Tolkien. But then Leonard, you know, rewrote everything. But a foundation was provided by Mel and Don.

Smart guys. Yeah, they were wonderful. You know, Mel is the guy who collected all those fantastic writers for that show of shows. He was a head writer on that show. And there was Mel Brooks and Doc Simon. Sure. And Danny Simon. Yeah.

Larry Gelbart. Larry Gelbart, Shelly Keller, Woody Allen. Yeah. You know, tremendous. You know, something I find in the research of your career that comes up is, and it's funny you say that, how many great comedy writers you worked with over the course of your career. And I would add Marshall and Belson and Evil Roy Slade. Oh, definitely.

They were... Which you are so much fun in. A man so tough he pinned on his own diaper. And you worked with Mickey Rooney in that. Oh, everybody. Uncle Miltie's in it. Yeah. Yeah.

He was, both of those guys were great in that show. They, Nelson Stuhl with the stubby index finger. Oh, sure. By the way, the third guy you were searching for in the Wheeler Dealers is Chill Wills. Oh, it was Chill Wills. Just popped into my head. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

Yeah. What about Viva Max? What about working with Jonathan Winters and your friend Peter Ustinov? Well. Another film you're a lot of fun in. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I was doing a play in Los Angeles called Rattle of a Simple Man. And after a matinee performance, my hero, Jonathan Winters, came into dressing room.

And he said, you know, hi, I'm John Winters. And I said, yeah, I know. And he said, I like what you did out there on the stage. He said, you made me, I know you've done it before, but it didn't seem that way. It seemed as though you were doing it for the first time. And he said, I can't repeat stuff. And he says, so I want to become your friend so you can teach me how to do that.

Wow. And I said, well, you know, I had said before, if there's anyone on earth ready for canonization, it's Jonathan Rebis. And I repeated that. I told him, that's how I feel about you. So immediately, I'll be your best friend. So immediately, I'll be your best friend. And so we had some good times together. But it was somehow very difficult to get John to do what had to be done to repeat something. Interesting.

Because his style came from his desire to communicate. That's why he'd go into these characters, because they exemplified what he was trying to say. they exemplified what he was trying to say. And I took, I came up with an idea for a show, which I should have pushed a little more than I did, which would set him off on an improvisation each week.

And, you know, he'd just let him fly and see what happens. You couldn't lose doing that. I'm sure. But one time we wrote something together, and it was one glorious afternoon and it was really 98% John and I was just the stimulus to it. And he said, let me work on this a while. And he said, I'll call you up.

So two weeks later, he calls me up and he says i got it i got it and everything was great and he had this terrific young guy in it uh and a great part for him i said john where's your part he said oh well there's not that much to it now but it's still there but he had completely changed it away from himself but you know he I would take great delight

in just starting him on something you know and just watch him go watch him go and you know when he needed watch him go? Watch him go. Yeah. And, you know, when he needed a little stimulus, throw it in. You know, sort of what Carl Reiner did for Mel Brooks on the 2,000-year-old man. Sure.

Do you look back, John, sometimes, and I know you're very busy and you're very much in the moment with what you have in front of you. Do you ever look back and say my god i worked with all of these these people and these larger than life characters i mean peter ustinov and and jonathan winters and you worked with phyllis diller and you worked with betty davis for god's sake and orson wells and mickey rooney we talked about i mean it, pinch me moments. You know, I once wrote down the names of all the people I'd worked with and just put a comma after each name. and just put a comma after each name.

And it was single-spaced typing. Wow. And I filled up a page with single-spaced, you know, with all these names. And so one of my students, I was working with one of my students. She said, John, did you ever work with any big names? Ringo Starr. And I didn't think about Ringo at that moment. But I said, well, what about Cary Grant?

There you go. And they didn't know who Cary Grant was. Oh. And I started naming people, and they didn't know any of them. And then I said, what? Then I said, I played Jodie Foster's father one time. And they said, you worked with Jodie Foster? Freaky Friday.

Freaky Friday, yeah. And so I I've got to have younger people on the tips of my tongue well I I saw you do

I saw you interviewed at a convention and you were talking about the Adams family you were on a panel with Felix Silla and I think Lisa and you

and somebody mentioned Bob Hope and you went around the room and you said, come on, none of these people know who Bob Hope is. And you said, show of hands, this is something that comes up on our podcast a lot. You said, how many of these people know who Bob Hope is? And it's one of the reasons we do this show

is to keep these names alive, is to keep this history alive. We consider it very important i think one time dustin hoffman was speaking somewhere and before the lecture started he said okay does anyone here know what the graduate was and no one could answer it. Stunning. Wow. Stunning. Yeah. And that seems, to me, relatively recent. I'd like to see that piece of paper. The names in candy alone that you work with, Ringo and Walter Matthau and Brando and Richard Burton. And I was saying Betty Davis, Ernest Borgnine, Lottie Lenya, Bea Arthur, Burgess Meredith, Eli Wallach, the list, Charles Adams himself.

I mean, the list goes on and on. And a favorite of ours, Jack Warden. Jack Warden you worked with. Oh, yeah. Speaking of Burgess, I spent a lot of time with Burgess because I assisted him on developing Ulysses in Nighttown. And in fact, Zero Mostel was in the show. There's another one. Because my first wife, Susie, and I had gone to a backers audition. I can drop a couple more here.

Please do. I can drop a couple more here. Please do. Well, we lived on the fifth floor of a walk-up that looked out over 10th Avenue and beyond the Hudson and finally Jersey. And we had gotten the apartment next to us for Jerry Orbach. Jerry and I were working together at the time. And his roommate, Joe Goldberg, excuse me,

Joe had written a uh play and uh they were uh uh raising money for the play they had a backers audition and uh you know we knew joe and wanted to support it. So he went to the backers audition. And, excuse me. Okay. If I get rid of that, my voice will turn young. Anyway, we're watching this backers audition and there's Zero reading for five bucks

doing a backers audition I mean he was on the blacklist at that time and so forth and we looked at each other and we said my gosh that's Leopold Bloom. He'd be fantastic in that part. And I tried to, I called Burgess right away,

and he said, yeah, that's great, that's great, the way he would, you know, but, uh, and then I, I remember taking scripts to Hugh Griffith and Franchotone. And, uh, I even, uh, he even called Johnny's agent and tried to offer it to him.

Jonathan Winters. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but, uh, Johnny never saw it, I guess. The agent decided against it. But I remember Milt Kamen was offered.

Milt Kamen. Remember him, Gilbert? Oh, yeah. Sure. Remember him? Yeah, sure. And lots of people. And finally, we had found someone, Sorrel Book.

Oh, we talk about him. We like Sorrel Book. Yes. He's a very talented guy. By Bide Braverman, and he was Boss Hogg. Yeah, he was Boss Hogg on the Dukes of Hazzard. Yeah, I mean, that, I would say, ruined his career. Oh, it's too bad.

He made a lot of money, I would say ruined his career. Oh, it's too bad. He made a lot of money, but he's a far better actor than this show allowed him to present, you know? And Sorrell was cast almost as Bloom. We didn't have enough money, and I found some backers and brought them in,

and they said we want to see who you have for Bloom and so Sorrell came in and read again but he had a bad reading and so they passed on him and

finally I said what about Zero Mostel and finally I said what about Zero Mostel and there was talk about the blacklist and the hell with the blacklist let's

and I had already gotten a script to Zero he'd had it for some time so he was already a couple of people went up and list you know the money people went up and listened to him and went up down to his place and then they called me up and said make the deal and so I called his agent and explained to her what was going on. She had no idea about it. so we

made the deal and it changed his career. He was brilliant in it. And a few years later

I'm doing a show with Sam Jaffe. a few years later, I'm doing a show with Sam Jaffe. There you go. It's another name. Yeah. And Sam was a close friend of Zero's and he'd been back East. We were in California and he'd been back East

and Zero's agent was suing him because Ulysses had changed his career and she wanted a piece of it. I see. And I said, now actually the case got thrown out, but I said, no, actually the case got thrown out, but I said, I never told Zero that he wasn't first choice. I didn't want to say that to him. Right, right.

And so I said, if it's necessary, Sam, tell him that I can testify that that never happened. And so he never had to tell him. Wow. So Zero always thought he was first choice. That's nice that you never let on. He should have been. He should have been. There was no one who could have done that part the way he did.

I hope you're writing a book, John, or you plan to put some of these things down beyond the list of names. Who knows? I mean, what a journey. It is. It is a journey. It's a delightful journey, actually. I've enjoyed all these people. You even worked with Jerry Lewis.

I did. In the original Evil Roy Slade incarnation. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, Uncle Miltie, Henry Gibson, Mickey Rooney, we were going, and Gilbert and I love character actors on this show. We see names like Pat Harrington and Louis Nye and Joey Foreman and all of these wonderful people. John Fiedler, Joey Fay, Gig Young, you know, everybody.

Did you ever see Joey Fay and Jack Albertson do their burlesque sketches? No. Oh, would I love to see that. Well, Joey Faye was half of that sitcom team. Mack and Meyer for hire. Oh, okay. On TV in the 60s, but never saw him team with Jack Albertson.

They did Flugel Street. They did Niagara Falls. Oh, man. That must have been amazing. All that stuff. And then for a third guy, That must have been amazing. All that stuff.

And then for a third guy, they used a little fella named Bobby Ball. I don't know him. You don't know him? You stumped us. Yeah, you know, I'll tell you who knows Bobby Ball is Ed Asner. Oh, okay. We'll ask Ed. Yeah, Ed, he's a funny, he was so goddamn funny. Forgive the expression.

No, that's okay. That's okay. Before we get you out of here, you and Gilbert did a show. You both did, well, a show you were on many times, Night Court. Yes. Oh, my. Playing Harry Anderson's mental patient

father. Harry, yeah. We just lost Harry this year. Yeah. Sadly. Too bad. You really sank your teeth into that part. I did.

I loved it. I'd love to do a show based on a character like that, the same gestalt that Buddy Ryan had. Buddy Ryan. Who did you play, Gilbert, on Night Court? I was like a sleazy lawyer. It's hard to buy. Yeah.

Are you available, Gilbert? Yeah. What about Cary Grant before we get you out of here, John? And I watched that touch of mink. By the way, great scene of the New York automat in that movie. We love movies where you get to see old New York. Yeah.

Old forgotten New York. That was a good scene. And tell us about Cary Grant. Tell us about working with him. I mean, you have just those two scenes together, but they're so much fun. He was, both he and Doris Day were wonderful. Wonderful to work with.

Kerry was so nice to me. was so nice to me. He continued to encourage me after the movie. When I did Operation Petticoat, he sent word to me how happy he was that I was doing it and so on how nice gave me tips on where to buy clothes how nice but and doris was uh uh you know i still think about her and the conversations we had, you know, off camera.

You worked with her a lot. A swell human being. So I was very lucky on that film. And that came from one of the jobs that Abby Greshler got. Abby Greshler. Yeah jobs that Abby Gressler got. Abby Gressler. Yeah, about Abby Gressler. Okay, before we let you out of here, we're going to embarrass you, John, if that's okay. Oh, boy.

This is what I've been waiting for. We found a clip from 1964. I think this is you on American Bandstand. Do you know what we're going for here? On American Bandstand. Do you know what we're going for here? On American Bandstand? With Dick Clark. You're doing a song. Oh, yeah.

Is this Wallflower Pete? This is Wallflower Pete. Oh, my God. Yes, yes. That got a lot of plays, actually. And it got me a deal with United Artists, a record deal. I didn't appreciate it.

I was shooting a film somewhere in Europe or something and didn't really follow up on it. How did this happen? You were hot from the Addams Family and they said... Yeah, and I did... A side was Karina Mia, and the B side, it was a forerunner of a kind of rap. Right. And.

We're looking at you right now, by the way. We're looking at you against a brick wall. And these girls doing like the boogaloo. You are surrounded by go-go dancers. Yeah. Started from the beginning. We're going to play a little of it for you. Okay.

And the music so hot, no one knew if they had a partner or not. Pete got all shook up. He couldn't find the ball. His body started shaking. He was having a ball. His arms ready. His feet flat west. He was jerking away like all the rest.

That's great. Oh, sugar. I got it at home. How you didn't become a rock star after that? You know, my, you see, the A side was Carita Mia, and I did a whole thing. And Lloyd Thaxton, remember him? Oh, sure. Lloyd Thaxton.

Channel 13, wasn't it? Lloyd Thaxton. Is he a comedy writer? No, he was a performer. Oh, I'm thinking of somebody else. A performer. Yes. A host or something like that.

Yes, I'm thinking of somebody else. And he would do a lip sync to Querida Mia. I see. And actually, on Hollywood a go-go, I did that. That was really on the edge. It was so sexy, all the girls, dancers on that thing. The one you have, the Wallflower Pete, that was American Bandstand and was clean. Right.

We want to direct our listeners. Hollywood a go-go came from a local station. We want to direct our listeners to YouTube to find you singing Wallflower Pete. There's also an interview with you and Dick Clark where you're talking about the Addams Family. Yeah, it's great to see these old clips. Yeah. So tell us about the family. Mackenzie we know about.

Obviously, Sean, we know about. Both of them with terrific careers. And again, we're indebted to them for making this happen. Finally. Yes. So all hail Sean and Mackenzie. Thank you. But it's a big brood now john it is well my my uh i uh i uh my third wife valerie is uh um i refer to as the dessert in my life.

Uh, we, uh, we've been, I, I'd say our next anniversary, which is a couple of months from now will be 30 years. Oh, congrats.

We've been married. Yeah. Thanks. And, uh, uh, she's an amazing human being. Uh, we refer to her basically as the general.

The general. Well, how many kids and grandkids now? And she's about five, one. Okay. Oh, so I see. But she's the general. But she's the general. And then the other three are in order an inventor, a teacher,

and probably will become a therapist. And the other is a programmer. Okay. So this is a creative family with a science in the family, science in the genes. Yeah. Which we didn't get into. And when your son said they were going into show business, what was your feeling about that? Delight.

Good for you. You encouraged them. Yeah for you. You encouraged them. Yeah, but I wanted them to do it the right way if they could. Actually, all five of them had a little touch with it of one kind or another. Uh-huh.

I remember Alan was in a pilot film I did which didn't sell. I remember Alan was in a pilot film I did, which didn't sell. And it wasn't Alan's fault. But it was a lot of fun to do, as a matter of fact. I met some friendly writers on that show. And one of them is still a friend.

Good. Married to my representative. Oh, okay. Because Abby Greshler is long gone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to say, John, we've done about 230 of these. Everybody from Carl Reiner to Bruce Dern to Peter Bogdanovich.

Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke was here. Norman Lear was here. Buck Henry, who I know you know. Yeah. And this one was particularly satisfying because we chased you down for so long. Well, you know, it's interesting. I was thinking about this.

You talked about the fact that a lot of people wanted me to come on the show, people you'd heard from. Yeah. And unless you were just jiving me. Not at all. Oh, okay. I've got, I've got, I told Mackenzie,

I've got, I've got 57 pages of Facebook posts from people who wanted you to come on the show. Really? Which is about 400 people that wrote about you specifically. Which I sent to your office. I'm sorry if you didn't get it. Oh, really? I'll send it again.

Oh, fantastic. An outpouring of love. But there's something about the myriad reruns of The Addams Family. There's such a positive affect to, and I credit the writing of the show, and the quality of performance in it. the quality of performance in it, people absolutely loved that experience. And Carolyn and I were sort of surrogate parents for a lot of kids who'd run home from school

and visit the Adams family on a daily basis, you know, when they were stripping it. Uh-huh. And while we were in production only two years, the effect of the show is much greater than that. the effect of the show is much greater than that. And so in Hollywood, they don't really know how powerful the effect of that show was nationally.

I can't escape it because... Of course. Even in my altered state now, without hair except on my face, I'm still, you know, not all the time anymore, but recognized by people, partly because of my voice, I think. Yes, it's unmistakable. And the... I found it out when I started doing plays

I found it out when I started doing plays because people would come to see something that I did. And I'm so grateful for the good luck to have been in a show with the kinds of writers that that show had. And particularly, my gratitude goes to Ed and Cy and to Nat and David Levy, the executive producer. I mean, they gave us something really fantastic to work with.

That's great. And it has such a strong positive affect. People's hearts are warmed by the kind of humor that's in that show. Absolutely. And there's not, it's not terribly dissimilar from some of the Marx Brothers stuff. Or you can't take it with you.

Which reminds me of sometimes that screwball family. Yeah, we use that analogy a number of times when talking about the show. You can't take it with you. You belong to that fraternity of actors that are like Carol O'Connor and Alan Alda, who will be known for many things,

but that part, that character, it's iconic. Yeah, it's... Of course, my brother said, you know, the real you is Gomez Adams. That's great. That's great. We hope you work on a book, John. There's so much.

And we could interview you for about six hours because there is a a lot to cover we just we want to thank patrick mccarthy my friend who who uh who hooked me up with sean who got this process started and we want to thank our engineer who's there with you rob spiewak and do you have anything you want to plug before yeah plug the theater program yeah plug the theater program tell them them to turn it, give us a major. It's the John Astin, tell us what, it's the John Astin theater at Johns Hopkins University.

Yeah. That has to be a thrill too, to have the theater named after you, for God's sake. Yeah, it is. It is that. I know you're into something called value creation john because i was doing very deep diving about your work and what you what and how you you you talk to your students and i just want to tell you that gilbert and i have been lifelong fans and you have created a lot of value for us thank you very much. And many people. You know, it's part of my Buddhist philosophy,

but it existed long before that because I noticed an article that was in a Hopkins publication when I was in Three Penny Opera. And they asked me a question, what is it you really want to do? And I said, I want to try a way to create value on the stage. You have, my friend. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for decades of entertainment. And thanks for your research. Are you kidding? I've been researching you for about two years hoping this day hoping this day would arrive do you know what do you know what my first movie was uh god yeah i have it somewhere give me a hint well my, my first Hollywood movie was West side. Oh, West side story. We didn't even get to West side story.

Glad hand. I used to say that all the time. Glad hand. Until someone from New York, uh, said, but John, what about the pusher?

Oh, that's right too. I found that in the credits. I, I, I, I, I, I have, I think two lines in, two lines in the pusher as a detective.

Yeah. We hope you write a book. We hope we get to see you again, John, and cover some more stuff. Thank you very much, guys. And this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to a guest who was well worth the wait. John Astor. And then some.

And, John, I'm going to send you those Facebook posts from your fans. Okay. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you, Mackenzie. Thank you. Thank you. They're creepy and they're kooky. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you, Mackenzie. Thank you. Thank you. family neat sweet petite so get a witch's shawl on a broomstick you can crawl on

we're gonna pay a call on the adams family gilbert godfrey's amazingossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Steeles. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.