Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Leonard Maltin Returns

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

GGACP celebrates National Jewish Heritage Month with a series of memorable interviews, beginning with author, critic, Hollywood historian and recent recipient of TCM's Robert Osborne Award, Leonard Maltin. In this episode, Leonard shares his expertise on a number of topics, including the death of fanzines, the disappearance of movie theaters, the charm of “The Maltese Falcon” (both versions) and the appeal of New York-set films of the 1970s. Also, Zeppo breaks up the act, Laurel and Hardy bring down the house, Steve Allen portrays Benny Goodman and Gilbert and Leonard remember their dear friend James Karen. PLUS: Keefe Brasselle! “The Buster Keaton Story”! In praise of “Ed Wood”! Al Pacino remembers “Scarecrow”! And Leonard spends a day with Burgess Meredith! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter P pounder today and discover how words are so unnecessary for a limited time only at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Hey out there, this is Diane Ladd, and you've been listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. This is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. I'm here once again with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Fertorosa, here at Earwolf. Our guest this week is an old friend who's back for a return engagement.

He's a journalist, historian, TV personality, podcaster, internationally recognized film school scholar, and a critic, and the author of some of the most influential and well-researched books on cinema and popular entertainment, including Of Mice and Magic, The Disney Films, The Great Movie Comedians, Our Gang, The Life and Times of the Little Rascals, Leonard Moulton's Movie Crazy, and his most recent book, Hooked on Hollywood. For 45 years, he's edited the essential, indispensable, and greatly missed Leonard Moulton's movie guide. And he's currently the editor of Leonard Moulton's classic movie guide

which includes reviews of the films from the silent era to the 1960s. But that's not all. Not by a long shot. I want a longer introduction. You'll get it.

Oh, I didn't know you were still here. He also teaches at USC, School of Cinematic Arts, and appears regularly at The Reels Channel and Turner Classic Movies. And he's the host of an entertainment and informative podcast called Molten On Movies, which features celebrated guests like Al Pacino, Mel Brooks, Tim Burton, as well as our friends, Drew Friedman, Paul Williams, Pat Noswalt, and Michael Giacchino. And one episode even featured that titan of the silver screen, Gilbert Gottfried.

God bless you. Please welcome to the show someone who's forgotten more about Hollywood history than Frank and I will ever dream of knowing. Marge Simpson's favorite film critic, our pal Leonard Moulton. I've forgotten more during the course of that introduction than at any other time in my professional career, but it's very flattering. Thank you, Gilbert. Yes, thank you, Gilbert. Here's what I wanted to start off with. Yeah.

When I think of all the movies that I've seen over the years, some that I haven't seen, loads I've seen in movie theaters, and I think now none of these would ever make it to a movie theater. And movie theaters seem to be going the way of like vaudeville houses. Well, some of them are, but a lot of them aren't. There's still a lot of life in the movie theater business, and I'm not ready to give it its last rites. Well, that's good to hear. And because I'm Jewish, I couldn't give them their last rites anyway. But I really don't think it's going away.

Movie going is still a social activity. What are you going to do Friday night, Saturday night? If you're a teenager, you want to go on a date. At any age, you want to just go and hang out with some friends and see something. For parents, it's an escape for a night. You pay a babysitter and go to the movies. Yes, there's a lot of temptation to stay home now. It's true.

So there's no question that the competition has gotten ferocious. And this has really hurt the small movie and the medium-sized movie. But you don't hear anybody, you know, the week that the Avengers, Infinity War is open, you don't hear anybody saying, ah, I'll wait for Cable.

You know, they all want to be there. So you're saying they still show up for event movies. See, but that's the thing. Event movies, tentpole movies, all that stuff. Yeah. It's like I think of people who are stars now and i wonder like years ago like julia roberts yeah could she nowadays if she was younger if could she nowadays be making these cute romantic comedies and having them put them in actual theaters

well you know it's debatable. I don't know. Every now and then there's a surprise and something does break through. One of the breakthroughs this season since summer has been a documentary, the one about Mr. Rogers. Oh, yeah.

Won't You Be My Neighbor. Yeah. It's an absolutely wonderful film, very emotional, full of heart, and it's a documentary. And it's an absolutely wonderful film very emotional full of heart and it's a documentary and it's broken records so you know anything's possible that's why I choose to try

to retain my optimism well you're in LA Leonard so you've still got the you've still got the Arclight and the and the the man's theater is it Grauman's now again? no but we're going to Is it Grauman's now again?

No, but we're going to call it Grauman's anyway. The Chinese theater, you've got the Egyptian, you've got the Cinerama, you've still got movie show places. We lost the Ziegfeld here. If you're lucky enough to get an invitation to go to a screening at the Academy of Motion Picture

Arts and Sciences, they have a beautiful, beautiful auditorium. I remember it. And right before we got on the air, and this fits in perfectly, you were reading an article to us. If you could tell us about that. Oh, this is from, I think, yesterday's Los Angeles Times. And it's about Rick Caruso, who's a developer out here who's had great

success building not just malls, but environments. He did The Grove, which is kind of based on Disneyland or inspired by Disneyland. He even has a trolley going through that'll take you to the farmer's market. And he's done one in Pasadena called The Americana. And his newest one is in Pacific Palisades, which is a very high-end neighborhood. And they've rebuilt at great cost a vintage movie theater called the Bay Theater, B-A-Y. And here are some of the menu items that I know Gilbert and Frank will recall from their childhood movie-going days.

Vegan spring rolls with Thai peanut sauce and M&M's on the side. A Kobe beef burger with bacon and sriracha mayo, which is a great accompaniment to your red vines. And a brioche sandwich with sautéed shrimp, blended cheeses, and pickled strawberries. You know, it's a whole new world. See, but there too, like more and more theaters have like really plush seats and reclining. They're trying. And massage. And it reminds me of like the idea of like when TV came out, that's when they were trying 3D.

Like, maybe this will get audiences back. Right. They wanted to drag people out of their living rooms and back into the movie theaters. And it worked to a degree, but not really long term. Well, you mentioned the screening rooms, Leonard. And obviously, you have access to all of these screenings. Do you still want to see a movie? At the snap of a finger.

Yes. By the way, that Academy screening room is the best sound I've ever heard. I remember seeing A League of Their Own there, and I couldn't believe how crisp it was and everything about it. It's the best. Because all the movie professionals go there.

Absolutely. They have to meet the highest standard. Would you prefer to just go and see an experience, have an experience like that in a screening room, or do you still want to see movies with an audience in a theater? Oh, that doesn't matter to me terribly much. I don't mind going. There are these modest-sized screening rooms all over town

where they have press screenings mostly. And some of them are maybe 35 seats, 50 seats, 75 seats. But the screen is a decent size and you're in the dark and you're having the movie going experience. No brioche sandwich though. No, no, no. No pickled strawberries. No pickled strawberries. Yeah. The screening rooms here are pretty good, too. There's a Disney screening room, a Paramount one. I go at I'm in the Writers Guild, so I go at Christmas time.

And it's a different way to see a movie if you're a purist. Well, yes. I mean, and now, of course, though, it's getting tougher and tougher because this is not news to anybody, but they're now sending out, of course, screeners. Right. Which is to say DVDs and Blu-rays for the awards season.

And it's very tempting to stay home. Sure. We moved four years ago to a new house, and my wife, Alice, said, we're getting an 80 80 inch screen, TV screen. I said, 80 inches? She said, yes, yes. We went to Costco to compare 70 inch, 72 inch, 75 inch. Then there's a big price leap to 80 and I'm a cheapskate. and I stood there and they all looked great and I said, really, wouldn't a 70 or 70?

She said, 80 inches, it's got to be the best. Well, you know what? She was right because now we have a better home viewing experience

but a crappy movie is still a crappy movie. Yeah, yeah. But there's so many movies that I've seen over the years where I thought, you know, if you never saw this movie in a crowded theater, then you never saw it.

Yes, I agree. When my daughter, who's now 32, was nine years old, we took her to a Laurel and Hardy show on Broadway downtown here in LA. There's a wonderful organization called the LA Conservancy, which is kind of our historical society. They fight the good fight, trying to protect older buildings and keep progress from moving too fast. And they celebrate the remaining movie theaters on Broadway every June and July by showing classic films in these classic theaters, the largest of which is the Los Angeles Theater. I think it's 2,200 seats.

That's a big theater. I mean, it's no Radio City Music Hall, but it's still a pretty big theater. That's a big theater. I mean, it's no Radio City Music Hall, but it's still a pretty big theater. And to sit in that theater and hear over 2,000 people screaming with laughter at Laurel and Hardy was just such an exciting and heartwarming experience. That's great. And it's something that very few people have ever known. Even if you go to a good, funny movie today, you're not going to have that many people surrounding you,

and you're not going to get that impact. We all make compromises. I will confess that at the end of the year, when I'm trying to get to see some documentaries, some smaller films, some foreign language films, I succumb to the seductive experience of just popping a disc in my dvd or blu-ray player and watching it at home you gilbert you don't go you don't go to the movies much no no and it's like and also i've lost track of the movies that aren't the big blockbusters because that's the thing i used to whenever a paper came out i'd go right to the entertainment section because they'd have big

pages of ads and i loved looking through those those were the days sure now they don't have that anymore i'm gonna ask you something else uh i'll bet you can tell me where you saw a lot of your favorite movies absolutely absolutely i mean what i don't know what today's kids uh say uh oh i saw that in auditorium six i mean is that there's no there's no attachment right there's no nostalgia to saying that right yeah. Yeah, I mean, I can think of seeing Herbert Ross's Pennies from Heaven in the Ziegfeld. At the Ziegfeld, I saw it there, too. Oh, yes. I saw it on a snowy afternoon, and I think it was one of the few people in the theater,

and it's an experience I'll never forget. Don't you agree that sometimes the theater, the day that you're having, it colors the experience of seeing that movie, and it always stays with you. Of course. Yeah. Of course. How could it not?

I'll tell you my most vivid memory. Well, there's lots of memories tied up with the Ziegfeld. But one Saturday when Alice and I still lived in Manhattan, we were curious to see John Schlesinger's film Honky Tonk Freeway. I remember that one. This is an elephantine, whimsical comedy that's neither funny nor whimsical. And it was playing at the Ziegfeld. So he went to like an eight o'clock show.

This is almost like the joke, what time is the movie? And they say, what time can you get here? There were maybe eight or 10 people in this gigantic theater. We watched this lumbering movie and when it was over, we went to the restroom and then we stood there for a minute and said, wait a minute, if no one shows up for the 10 o'clock show are they still going to project the movie and uh ultimately the answer is yes because it's advertised in the newspapers you remember newspapers oh and uh and so somebody shows up 10 minutes late you know they're entitled to still see the movie see but there too is like i remember on the train all these years people would be reading the paper folding it up so not to hit the person next to them and if they didn't have a newspaper they'd

have like a paperback novel yeah and now none of that no is on you know what our fans send us leonard they send us pages of newspapers from the 70s the movie section where you'll see like you know earthquake and uh blazing sound whatever was out at that particular time people people are collecting this stuff people are very nostalgic about it us included and and i i remember seeing i saw death wish when i was living in borough park I saw Death Wish when I was living in Borough Park and that was like the ideal time. Do you remember which theater?

I don't remember the name of the theater. It was on Fort Hamilton Parkway and but I remember there too that experience was like the every mugger that he shot

the entire place would blow up with people was like every mugger that he shot, the entire place would blow up with people cheering and applauding. We had a very strange experience watching Death Wish, and I remember where we saw that. It was at a theater that they tore down a long time ago. It used to be opposite Lincoln Center on Broadway. It may have been Columbus Avenue there where they sort of intersect, but it was before they built the newer Lincoln Center, Lincoln Plaza theater

there. Which they now closed. Which I read about. Yeah, heartbreaking. So this other theater, we saw the movie and then we walked home. We lived at 79th in Amsterdam. And we walked home past all of the locations where they had shot the film. Wild. Oh my god. It was so,

it really creeped us out. We always ask our guests, we had Joe Dante on here. I know you had him too. And we like to ask our guests what their movie theater was when they were a kid. What the local, for me, it was a place called the Cross Bay Theater in Queens, which I don't think anybody remembers. But, and I guess Joe's from Detroit. No, no, Joe's from Philly.

Philly, Philly, Philly. And he, yeah, he told us the name of the theater. And you grew up in Teaneck? Teaneck, New Jersey. So what was- Birthplace of Ricky theater. And you grew up in Teaneck? Teaneck, New Jersey. So what was... Birthplace of Ricky Nelson. Yes. Very good.

You need to know these things. Yes. What was the local movie house? It's still in business. It's still there? Teaneck Theater on Cedar Lane. That's great. It's been sixplexed, I think, by now.

But they're still operating, so that's something. And this theater had a feature which I now retroactively despise, but thought was kind of curious and fascinating when I was a kid. They had an illuminated clock on the wall right next to the movie screen. What could be more distracting than that? Oh oh so you're never really in the dark oh exactly here's here's another thing like when i part of the movie going experience for me was always i love trailers uh-huh you know movie trailers i always like when a movie trailer came on I always thought that was the

greatest thing and now they're having actual TV commercials in the theaters that's been going on a while I used to love trailers too and I still love old trailers

which they show on TCM which I used to collect on 16 millimeter. And I just love them. I just love them. And they had something you don't see anymore. They had style. They had personality. They occasionally used humor. And now every trailer is the same. They're all cut from the same cloth and they act as if you're not going to watch them with seven other trailers. Yeah.

You know, so there's a routineness, a sameness. Yeah. And I don't get the point of that. And if you've seen any of Alfred Hitchcock's old trailers, you know how he hosted them and had fun with them, as did Orson Welles. Sure. With his great Citizen Kane trailers. And Warner Brothers, picture this. You're going to the movies in 1941. That's before even my time. But you go to the movies in 1941

and the trailer comes on and there's a vast expanse of darkness, blackness. And a little pin spot in the middle is a face you've never seen before and a voice you've never heard before. It's Sidney Greenstreet.

And they do a quick, as as i recall push in to him they reveal him you know full screen and he says come closer i have a story i want to tell you and he then promotes the maltese falcon that's great but that was the first time anybody saw he did some silent films and supporting roles. But this was really his film debut. What a grabber. What a way to get your attention and make you want to see it. And then he did that for every other Warner Brothers film I think he was in. Fantastic.

He used the same formula. Since you brought up Laurel and Hardy, you were telling me on email that you saw the new picture. Every now and then something like this comes along and you scratch your head. Someone's actually releasing a biopic about Laurel and Hardy in 2018. It's not so much a biopic as it is kind of a character study that takes place primarily. There are a few flashbacks. We haven't seen it. But it takes place at the twilight of their career.

In the early 1950s when they toured the British music hall circuit. And they're no longer the big stars they used to be. And they hadn't been terribly close. I mean, they liked each other. They always got along fine. Their wives, and they're each married more than once, didn't always get along as well as they did. But they're at this crossroads in their lives and careers.

And it's a very poignant and charming film. And I will tell you, this is the highest compliment I could pay this movie. I, who grew up watching Laurel and Hardy every day of my life on New York television, and then became a member of the Sons of the Desert, the Laurel and Hardy Club,

and even started the tit-for-tat tent of Teaneck, New Jersey when I was 13 years old. So they mean a lot to me, to put it mildly. I forgot I was watching actors. That's how convincing John C. Reilly and Steve Coogan are as these characters. Not just the makeup, which in Reilly's case is extensive,

but you believe these you're watching the real thing how about that Gil we have to see it I know it's not opening until the last week of the month we'll have to go on a date yeah

we'll get the brioche and the ginger strawberries yes of course. Whatever it was. Or some hard-boiled eggs and nuts. Yeah. You know, it's like, to me, I saw that there was that Three Stooges movie. Yeah, there was.

Farrelly Brothers, yeah. And I remember, I will say, I thought the actors were terrific in those parts. They did a good job. The makeup was terrific. I was convinced it was the Stooges, other than it wasn't funny at all. Well, you know, you can't have everything. Our friend Craig Bierko was funny in it. Yes.

He was the bad guy. Right. I mean, you know, to quote Betty Davis from Now Voyager, we have the moon. Let's not ask for the stars. Of course. I probably just misquoted that line, but something like that. Which brings me to my question. Why is it hard to make a good biopic, particularly of showbiz figures and entertainment figures?

I mean, I think of the Chaplin movie which wasn't very successful. No, no. If we really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel, W.C. Fields and me. The Steiger picture. That's not the bottom of the barrel.

That's not the... Somewhere sliding down. Maybe Gable and Lombard is the bottom. There was the George Reff story with Ray Danton. That's right. Very good. And the Eddie Cantor story with Ray Danton. That's right. Very good. And the Eddie Cantor story with Keith Brazile.

With the fantastically talented Keith Brazile. I have a friend, an old friend and I have been teasing each other about Keith Brazile for decades. for decades. Whenever we find some nugget about his CBS variety show or some of the appalling movies he made during the 50s, we just fell over it.

Ask Cliff Nesteroff about him. I remember in that movie, he's Eddie Cantor and his good pal Jimmy Durante stops over. Oh yes, the worst makeup job ever. Yeah, it looked like they glued a hot dog to the guy's

nose and he's there like, Eddie! How are you, Eddie? Let's go play in the Vaudeville house. Not one of the more memorable biopics. then i also and this is a problem with every movie but particularly bios or are based on true stories and i always one of my favorite is um

in the uh and also it's a bio. And that was the... Oh, God. Now, Bobby Darin. Oh, Beyond the Sea. Oh, Beyond the Sea with Kevin Spacey. His manager is John Goodman. Yeah. And at one point in the movie, he says, Ah, my career's gone nowhere.

And John Goodman has to go, What are you talking about, Bobby? You won five gold albums, six won platinum. You were nominated for an Academy Award. You were voted the greatest Las Vegas performer. And I thought, okay, let me write all this down. That's right. That's what they call exposition.

Clunky exposition. Yes, clunky down. That's right. That's what they call exposition. Clunky exposition. Yes, clunky indeed. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, there aren't very many good ones. I mean, there are always exceptions now and then. I just saw the Freddie Mercury film. Yeah, it's getting mixed reviews. And I enjoyed it.

You did. I don't know how absolutely accurate it is, but this guy, you know, R know rami malek again has convinced me that he was freddie mercury and uh it's not it's not uh the deepest uh dramatic biography i've ever seen but the music is great and uh and it's enjoyable see always, I'm a big fan of those movies, those TV movies. There were a bunch of them all at once. There was the late shift that was about Letterman. Oh, yeah, yeah, right.

And they followed it up with, like, the true story of Charlie's Angels and the true story of Saved by the Bell. I had a tire rotation appointment that night, so I couldn't see it. See, but those, when I sit down to those, I go, okay, this is going to be shit, and I know that, so let me sit back and enjoy it. I'll tell you a good one. Exactly. A good one from a few years ago was Love and Mercy about Brian Wilson. Yes, that was actually a wonderful film. Really good.

With two great performances. Two great performances. But then there was also James Brolin as Clark Gable. We brought that one up. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that at one of the theaters in Times Square on Broadway.

I can't remember which one. They're all gone now. I don't remember. Was it the Astor or the Criterion which one. They're all gone now. I don't remember. It was the Astor or the Criterion. Yeah, they're all gone. One of those places. Uncanny, your recollection of where you saw all these things.

Even bad movies. Well, I remember standing on the, let's see, the east side of Broadway, looking west, and those two theaters, which were neighbor theaters with the largest billboard ever created by mankind above them, where they had the Cleopatra billboard for many years

and stuff like that. And in gigantic marquee letters, the old fashioned marquee letters, I saw the words, Robert Mitchum going home. And I thought, what if you paid $6 or $7 and you go inside and you sit down, you buy some popcorn

and you see Robert Mitchum getting on a train and leaving? Because that's all they promised you. Robert Mitchum going home. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast right after these important messages. What happens when 20 extremely athletic Canadians

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So, let's go. Here's a good biopic, Ed Wood, that Larry and Scott wrote. Oh, that's a wonderful film. That's a truly wonderful film. Wonderful movie. It was made from the heart. Absolutely.

And you can tell. You can tell that this is not just a job for these people. Tim Burton behind the camera. All the way around. Scott and Larry. A wonderful cast. That's a film I really care for. And it's like they understood

that he was tacky and not very talented but they treated it with sensitivity it's a love letter that movie yes it is yes it is and of course Johnny Depp gives a wonderful performance because I think he captures

what I think Ed Wood must have been like which was a guy with great passion and enthusiasm, an infectious enthusiasm, that surrounded his band of comrades behind the camera and in front of it. And all he lacked was talent. Yeah. Yeah. I've mentioned on this show before that I think that's a subgenre, which is the crazy dreamer. Like Tucker, a man in his dream, or Herzog's Fitzcarraldo, or Ed Wood, Mosquito Coast.

I mean, they're all of a kind. Yes. Yes. I agree with you. And I think one of my favorite lines in Ed Wood is when he completes Glenn and Glenda. And the movie producer, well, the movie distributor says, this is the worst movie I ever saw. And he goes, well, my next one will be better. Very nice. How's the Keaton movie

that Donald O'Connor made? I've never seen that one. Oh my God. Speaking of movies about comedians. The Buster Keaton story. The Buster Keaton story. Yes.

Not one of the highlights of Parade of Motion Pictures. I can forget that one too. I remember when they did the TV movie of Robin Williams' life. Yeah.

The guy imitating Robin Williams was great. I mean, he did a perfect imitation. But there too, he's sitting next to somebody in an easy chair, sipping a pina colada with him. And the guy goes, so, Robin, how are you feeling? And he goes, oh, I'm feeling wonderful. Here I am sitting next to Robert Evans, the producer of The Godfather. And I'm currently doing Popeye with Robert Altman, who did MASH.

And here I am in Molte. Here I am. How did mash? And here I am in Malta. Here I am. They read the same how-to screenplay book that taught how to provide exposition in the clunkiest possible way. Yes. Well, even in the Freddie Mercury movie, Bohemian Rhapsody, there's a part of the film where they fall back on cliche about some guy in show business who gets too much too fast, goes to his head. He starts living elaborately and extravagantly.

And there it felt a little shopworn. Do you know Larry and Scott have a Marx Brothers screenplay? An unproduced one? Oh, sure. They completed that a long time ago. Did you get to read it? Nope. They won't show it to anybody.

Oh, damn it. What was your opinion on the Irv A. Villages movie? Oh, I haven't show it to anybody. Oh, what was your opinion on the Irv A. Villages movie? Oh, I haven't seen it. I missed the possibility of seeing it over the last few weeks. Have you seen it? Yeah. Talk about cliches. There was like the whole movie is him and a reporter out for a wild night on the town.

And the reporter has split up with his wife and is an alcoholic and he loses every job he's in. And then at the end, he he learned something from that night, you know, like he's a better person. And I thought this is a really old one. Well, every film of this genre potentially reminds me of the Jolson story. So, you know, they just get back to the same formula over and over and over again. And sometimes it may even be based on the truth.

Here's one of my favorite lines of dialogue from the Benny Goodman story. Starring that great, great actor, Steve Allen. Steve Allen. He's actually somebody I have utmost respect for. Yeah, us too. But not a brilliant actor, perhaps. And the character actress, Aileen McMahon,

plays his mother, his aging Jewish mother. And she continually, repeatedly says to him, oh, Benny, don't be that way. Benny, Benny, don't be that way. Which was the name of one of his first big hit records. Oh! You know, so it's, again, the heavy hand of screenwriting lands right there. Well, there, too, in an otherwise good movie that they fall for that is in the Ray Charles story. Oh, you saw that, huh?

Yes. Yeah. And in there, he and his wife are having an argument. And she says for him to leave or she's leaving and he immediately hits the piano and goes,

hit the road, Jack. Don't you come back no more. Alfred Hitchcock in his, before he came to Hollywood, made a film in England in the early 30s called Waltzes from Vienna about Richard Strauss, the great composer.

And there's actually a scene which I, it's been a long time. I won't describe it accurately, but you'll get the idea. He's thinking, he's thinking, trying to get inspiration for a new composition. And everything around him is making sounds. He's thinking, he's thinking, trying to get inspiration for a new composition. And everything around him is making sounds. There's a washerwoman outside wringing out clothes. The crank is squeaky. And all these sounds combine. And believe it or not, they wind up being the Blue Danube.

Unbelievable. What I love in movies is one person will play two or three notes and there'll be a guy over his shoulder or a group of girls and after one or two notes, he'll start playing a whole medley and they're singing along together. And you go, how did it get composed and written in a second? Yes. And the whole orchestra joins in.

Yes, yes. Got to get that exposition. Or what you see on screen is like a five-piece combo and what you hear is a 60-piece orchestra. Yes. That's another pet peeve of mine. Let's talk about the new book. Let's talk about Hooked on Hollywood.

If you like, I do. I see you brought a copy with you. I did. I got it on Kindle, which is not ideal because there's so many great pictures. So I'm going to actually have to get a physical copy. But full of great stories. Hooked on Hollywood discoveries from a lifetime in film fandom. I mean, we pride ourselves on doing deep research, but we bow.

We are not worthy. I mean, you going into those vaults and looking at just, it's exhausting to read about how much effort. I mean, this show is a labor of love, but you talk about a labor of love. Well, I mean, I always say some kids, when I was growing up, you know, could recite all the baseball statistics

for the New York Yankees, let's say. You know, some kids got hooked on different things. I just became immersed in movies, especially movie history. And it's all I thought about. It was my hobby. It was my love. And when I started writing and getting published

in other fanzines, what we used to call fanzines. Today, they would all be blogs. To see my name in print at age 13 was very exciting. And then I published my own fanzine, had sort of a trial run with a mimeographed one. Mimeograph machines. Every reference I make is defunct. Oh, us too.

Obsolete. Yeah, mimeographs. Well reference I make is defunct. Oh, us too. Obsolete. Yeah, mimeographs. Well, it's so funny. I think of all the expressions, like you sound like a broken record. Broken record, exactly. Yeah, or, oh, God, so many things. Oh, oh, don't touch that dial. We'll be right back.

There's a million of these things that nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about. That's why we do this show, damn it. To keep it alive. That's right. You do some really deep diving in that book. It's one of the last chapters in the book where you're

talking about the history of RKO. And you go one by one through all of those obscure RKO pictures. I mean, some of them not so obscure. But the detail, I mean, talk about a deep dive. Well, that was not done overnight. I can imagine. That was a long-term project that I did for my magazine, Film Fan Monthly. And do you remember Willoughby Peerless, the camera store?

Yeah, sure. Yeah, Willoughby's. Willoughby's was on, it was near Macy's. Yeah, it's still, I think it's gone. Herald Square. I think it's gone, yes. Yeah, yeah. The Herald is gone from Herald Square as well.

There was an old New Yorker cartoon. I always remember, of a guy, kind of a shabby guy, playing the violin with his open violin case, you know, on the sidewalk for donations.

And he's wearing a little sign around his neck on a string that says, moving soon to Herald Square. Anyhow, so I did this over a long period of time. There was a fellow upstairs in the office portion of Willoughby's who ran a something called

Select Film Library. His name was Milt Minnell. And he used to, he knew all the film storage places in town, all the laboratories. And if somebody didn't pay the storage fee, let's say, they'd call Milton. He'd say, I'll take the prints off your hands. And suddenly he'd acquire a whole room full of 16 millimeter prints. He did that one day and got the entire RKO library, including titles that had been pulled

from the library subsequently because of rights issues or remakes being done. So he let me borrow as many as I liked, and I would screen them, make notes, give them back, then take some more home. And you don't have to be crazy, but it helps. Yeah. Well, William Everson, who I also studied with at the School of Visual Arts, he would lend students his films from his personal collection. He was literally generous to a fault. Yeah, yeah. Bill Everson was one of a kind. Lovely man.

And the two of us were looking through your book, 151 Best Mov you've never seen. Yeah. This one's from a while back, 2010. But great. Still this decade, though. Yeah.

It's relevant. Now, there are some loads I haven't seen and some I, of course, have seen. Well, there was Going in Style. Yes, I like that movie.

Yeah. Very good. George Burns. Which I like that movie. Yeah. Very good. George Burns. Which they just remade. Yeah. They remade it unmemorably. I can imagine. The original with George Burns and Art Carney and Lee Strasberg was just a charming, wonderful film.

It's wonderful. And what I like about it especially is they've got these senior citizens, but they don't play them cute. Yes. Yes. That was the key. Yeah. Yeah. Martin Bress made that movie in his 20s.

Yep. And I remember the music was. You're a sick individual. Is that the way it sounded on the soundtrack of the film? And George Burns says in it, he goes, you know, the three of us used to sit on that same park bench. Occasionally a politician would talk to us. Now in here, I get three square meals a day. Either way, I was in prison.

Here I have friends. Pretty soon they'll ask me where the money's hidden. They don't know it, but they're older than I am. That's great writing. He gives a real performance in that picture. I mean, obviously he had a second career in movies in the 70s. He really does. There's no George Burns there.

He is that guy. Yeah, he's wonderful. And when I saw the new Going In Style, I thought, you know, the three of them, you know, those three actors, Alan Arkin, Michael Caine, and Morgan Freeman, certainly terrific actors. Sure. But it's just not good. They didn't have the material this time. The spark is actors. Sure. But it's just not good. They didn't have the material this time. The spark is missing. Yeah. Some real good ones in this book,

151 best movies, Citizen Ruth 2, which Gilbert and I like. Oh, I love that movie. Terrific. We have Diane Ladd coming in here. If you ever get the DVD and listen to the audio track,

the commentary track, it's the director, Alexander Payne, and his writing partner, Jim Taylor, and the great Laura Dern, who stars in the movie and gives an incredible performance. It's the three of them sitting down to watch the movie 10 years after they made it. Oh, that's great. And they sit, and so they're drawing on their memory and their recollections, and it's spontaneous because they really hadn't been together

or seen the movie in a decade. Those are the best kind of commentaries. Yes. Yeah, that's a great little black comedy. Both Gilbert and I like that one. And also, Gilbert hasn't seen this one, but I'll recommend it. You know what's a great black comedy? Oh, get out of here.

The Jeffersons. Stop now. The Door on the Floor, the Bridges, Kim Basinger movie based on the John Irving story. Yeah, another great one. Another great one to see. One of Jeff Bridges' great performances. Absolutely. Absolutely. He's given money. Absolutely.

Talk about an underrated actor. But you also mentioned Scarecrow, which is interesting to Gilbert and I. Al Pacino and Gene Hackman. Yeah. And you had Al Pacino on the podcast, which I just listened to. And you and Jesse asked him about Scarecrow. And he had memories. His memories about it were vivid.

Oh, yes. Because I think everybody who worked on that has fond memories. And it was such an offbeat, such a special movie. And these two guys, these two giant actors who had come into their own in the early 70s, here they were playing parts that were so atypical not what you expected them to be doing and both hackman and uh al pacino and uh they're uh that's what stays in my memory is how good they were yeah and how they sort of grab you with their offbeat casting.

A movie people need to find. The crows aren't scared of the scarecrows. They're laughing at them. And so then they think, hey, this Farmer Brown, he's not such a bad guy. Let's not eat his crops. And that was like the explanation. Of course, Al Pacino was living his life like he'll make it all a joke and he'll avoid life and that'll be his way of dealing with everything

the opening shot of that movie is amazing it is it's it's a lockdown camera shot, a two-lane highway and a hillside across the road. And eventually you see a figure walking carefully down that slope toward the highway. And it just sits there and lets you take it in. It gives you a clue to the pace of the movie that's going to follow. And you're just fascinated to see who is this guy. It's Pacino's character. And it's, you know, how do you open a movie? Well, maybe you open a movie

with something people don't expect to see. Just, you know, an ordinary shot that has the nerve to linger on one moment in this little offbeat slice of life. And there's a part toward the end, I won't say what he finds out, but he's on a payphone and he finds out this important secret in his life and pacino there doing absolutely nothing on the phone is like the greatest performance yeah you see so much going on in his face yeah now that's what i call i have a a new genre that I've invented. Do tell.

The payphone movie. Absolutely. Absolutely. I revisited The King of Comedy last year. That was the one that came to mind. Scorsese's wonderful film. Yes. And they're always on payphones.

Yes. And in Times Square and all sorts of places. And what gets me with the payphone movies, how many movies have you seen where the good guy has to like rush across town and the bad guy tells him, now every five minutes you have to call me. And then it's a desperate search for a payphone that works. And it's like, yeah, like people watching payphones now are going, what the hell is that? That's our favorite. A movie set in New York in the 70s involving payphones. It's weird to even, you go back and you look at something like Serpico. And there's a scene with Tony Roberts and Pacino and they're on the subway platform.

And there's a cigarette machine. Yes. Pacino, and they're on the subway platform, and there's a cigarette machine. Yes. In the shot. With the pull handles. You might as well be looking at the turn of the century. I just watched another film that's coming up for awards season with Melissa McCarthy called Can You Ever Forgive Me? I liked it quite a lot, and it's set in, I think it's supposed to be the 70s. I'm pretty sure it's the early 70s.

And it's about a woman, a real life woman named Lee Israel, who had had some modest success as an author and then kind of hit the skids and desperate, desperate to make a buck any way she could. She starts forging letters from famous literary figures. And she's good at it. She really becomes well-skilled. There are no spoilers. I'm not giving anything away you shouldn't know. And a lot of the film is spent with her going into these specialized used bookstores and talking to the dealers. And I was in a lot of those stores.

Oh, that's great. For much of my life in New York. And so it reminded me, it rekindled memories of that era of those places, the look, the feel, the sound. You could almost swear the smell. And I think you guys will maybe take to it for the same reason. Okay, there's another date for us, Gil. Another date night.

You know, I thought I knew a lot about Pacino, but listening to that episode, great stuff. I don't want to, I don't want to give anything away too, but there's a good dog day afternoon story. I'll let our listeners go and track down your episode and listen to it.

Thank you very much. I don't want to, I don't want to give away any spoilers, but boy, he's got a, his memory of those, of making those films is sharp. It is.

And he was willing to talk. We, Jesse and I didn't have the nerve. We wouldn't have thought to ask him about those movies. He came because he was plugging a new documentary that he had, not so new, but newly released on the making of his stage play, Othello.

And, oh, Salome. Salome. Yeah, I think it was Salome. Oscar Wilde's Salome. And for which he discovered Jessica Chastain. And she's got it right there. You can see this is a beautiful, talented woman. But Pacino was there essentially to plug that. And we were happy to have him under any circumstances.

But then he starts talking about all those films. And we weren't going to stop him we had a ball he he just he was downright jolly i mean he was just so happy happy to be there and happy to be talking about he was he was in great great form and fine fettle yeah we will return to gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Before I jump off your current book, too, there is one thing that Gilbert's going to care about a lot, and that is that you got to interview the great Burgess Meredith. Oh, yes. When you were very young.

I was something like 16 or 17. I couldn't drive yet. He lived up in Pound Ridge, New York. And I love people who name their homes. That's something I aspire to do. Like Tara. His home or whatever you want to call it, his compound, was named High Tour after a play of the same name by Maxwell Anderson.

Right. And I just loved that. I loved that. And he couldn't have been kinder. Here I am a kid. I hope I didn't come off too obnoxious or precocious, but I was a kid and my father drove me and came into his home. And he couldn't have been kinder or more generous with his time.

And I'd learned by then, even then, that there were a couple of really magic subjects, if you're talking about old Hollywood with people. And, of course, this is 40 years ago, or more. It's more than 40. We won't go into that. Never mind. But I asked him about working with Ernst Lubitsch. Yeah. No one doesn't have a story about Ernst Lubitsch

who worked with him because he was such a lovable man apparently and such a brilliant director. And one of the things he did was he acted out the scenes for the actors, which most actors hate. But they said he was so funny in the way he acted out the scenes for the actors, which most actors hate. But they said he was so funny in the way he acted out, they enjoyed it. And they got the point of what tone he was looking for in the delivery of the scene.

He had just made the Batman feature film. Ah, yes. Yeah, and he said he was kind of disappointed in it because he loved playing the penguin, but it gave him a new lease on life almost. He called it something out of Dickens. Yeah. Something out of Charles Dickens. That's how he saw it, which is great, but he was disappointed that the feature film didn't make more of the potential they had. It was just a cheap knockoff of the TV show. Directed by the great Leslie Martinson, who you also— Leslie Martinson, who I also interviewed, yes.

Somebody we wanted on this podcast, and he would have been absolutely perfect for us, but we didn't get him. Let me tell you how I met him. I went to a dinner. They used to have an annual event called the Golden Boot Awards. And I was on the board for a while. It was a fundraiser for the Motion Picture and Television Fund who operate the home and hospital out in Woodland Hills where anybody who's been in show business and the film business in particular can spend their final days in very nice housing. Or if they need medical assistance, they can get that.

So everyone supported it. And every year, I mean, the first year I went, picture this, within five minutes time, I met and had my picture taken with Roy Rogers and Gene Autry. Wow. Within five minutes of arriving. I know, I said to my wife,

that's it, I can die happy now. That's great. And it was a wonderful, wonderful, why am I bringing this up though? The train just left the station. Leslie Martinson. Let me bring our listeners up to speed. Leslie Martinson was a director.

If you go and you look at his IMDb page, you'll be blown away. It's not a page. Yes. How many things that he actually directed at his IMDb page, you'll be blown away. It's not a page. It's, it's, it's, it's, yes. It's, how many things that he actually directed

in his lifetime and died at 101. Now, back in the days when we were growing up watching TV, you could read the credits. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. They didn't shrink them. They didn't speed them up. Yep. That's. So, I found myself sitting next to this nice

older man who I'd never met before and I said, hi, my name's Leonard Maltin. He says, hi, I'm Les Martinson. And I said, are you the Leslie H. Martinson whose name I've seen on hundreds of TV

shows? He said, well, I guess so. That's me. That's how I met him. But I only knew him from all those credits which sank into my consciousness. I am so glad that you mentioned it because I also

remember you'd see the movie and I'd sit there and watch every single credit and they'd play the ending music and the same thing happened to me though with the jerry lewis telethon uh after a while i realized uh-oh with jerry lewis off the air we better go right to the local affiliates so people don't start turning off their tvs and what i remember when that they used to have an ending to the jerry lewis telethon where the band would strike up you know jazzed up version of smile and i thought that was part of the thrill he'd sing the song break down crying

and walk off stage and they'd blast that upbeat number and i thought that's part of the whole experience of course it is i also grew up i don't know why i found it so fascinating but the cerebral palsy telethon that aired locally in New York hosted by Dennis James. Dennis James from PDQ. That's right. Dennis James, who was a genuine pioneer of television. Yes, but known as a game show host in my generation.

Exactly. He also did wrestling. He hosted wrestling. He hosted everything. And I got to meet him late in life at the Golden Boot Awards. And he looked great, and he still had it all together. And apparently, he used to go to different cities and do local telethons there. So it wasn't just New York. But Morty Gunty took his place Sunday mornings.

That's great. It was a live 72-hour telethon. I love these names. Someone had to come in. Why does that mean so much to me? Gilbert, help me. Why does this mean so much to me? And also, it hit me too.

When you were saying you didn't know sports, but you knew about showbiz. And I was the same way. I don't know what team is playing whenever. I don't know a thing about sports. But I would know, like different character actors and bit players and makeup artists. Yes, he cared about Onslow Stevens. Yes.

Yes. Very passionately. As one should. As one should. As one should. Can I ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners, Leonard? You can try.

I like this one. This is good for you too, Gil. This is from Jason Grissom. Based on Leonard's Marx Brothers entry in movie comedy teams, one gets the impression he doesn't see the value

of Zeppo or didn't when he wrote it. Am I mistaken or does Leonard think Zeppo drag didn't when he wrote it. Am I mistaken or does Leonard think Zeppo drags the movies down? Well, I never said he dragged the movies down. I just don't know what he added.

See, we like the Zeppo ones. The Zeppo ones, I like them fine, too. And you know what? My friend Robert Bader wrote a you had him on the show we had him that book is insane that book is incredible incredible but uh when they when zeppo broke up the act they were known as the four marx brothers and there was a period

of great concern about what would they do they wouldn wouldn't be the four Marx Brothers anymore. You know, as it turns out, they did just fine as a trio. But no, so I don't see the, I don't want to say anything nasty or negative about Zeppo. Goodness knows he was. Apparently he could do Groucho. Yes.

Yeah. And did during vaudeville. Yeah. If Groucho. Yes. Yeah. And did during vaudeville. Yeah. If Groucho was ill or something or hungover, he could do Groucho. Yeah, that's one of those things where they say Zeppo was actually the funniest one of all of us on the stage. And you try to wrap your mind around that. That book by Robert Bader. Remember we had Robert in?

He wrote that book about the history of the March Brothers? I remember there was a story. Groucho was off sick and Zeppo played his part on stage. That's the one he's talking about. And they said he was so good that Groucho rushed back to do the next night.

Yes. Out of sight, out of mind. You did a commentary for the re-release of duck soup yes i did for the blu-ray that came out last year yeah that must have been a blast i did it did it with robert with robert that must have that must have been fun we had a good time yeah and hey the movie's like barely an hour and a quarter long. Amazing too how short they were. Yeah. And how they fly by. And it's like Duck Soup was the big explosion

of like how great a movie comedy could be. And then after that it was a quick fall. Like I never liked A Night at the Opera. See, I love that film. You like the MGM ones?

No, I didn't say the MGM ones. Okay, that one. I said A Night at the Opera. See, I love that film. You like the MGM ones. No, I didn't say the MGM ones. Okay, that one. I said A Night at the Opera. Okay. I thought... All the others are compromised in some way. Yeah. Agreed.

Oh, the ones after... Anything after... I mean, Day at the Races was already weak, but anything after that was... But has great moments terrific moments but anything after Day at the Races just gets more and more

horrible to watch it's tough to watch those here's one more from Buddy Spencer and I think you'll like this one if Leonard could go back in time and actually stop a movie from being made this is like one of those If Leonard could go back in time and actually stop a movie from being made. This is like one of those, would you kill Hitler?

Would you kill baby Hitler? I love this question. What would it be and why? Well, it just might be the Eddie Cantor story. It just might be. might be the Eddie Cantor story with Jeff Purcell. I don't think anyone would censure me for doing that. And you mentioned in your book the 1931 Maltese Falcon. Oh, yeah, that's in the 151 Best Movie. Which I think is with Ricardo Cortez.

Yep. with Ricardo Cortez. Yep. Ricardo Cortez, they wanted to cash in on the Rudo Valentino Latin lover thing, but he was like a nice-looking Jewish boy

from the Bronx. Jacob Krantz. Yes. Jacob Krantz. He used that slick back stuff in his hair, brilliant team, whatever they were called. Oh, yes. Brilliant team, yeah.

Yeah, and he was a good-looking man. But in the 30s, he became more of a character actor. And he plays a Jewish role in, I think, Symphony of Six Million, which is an interesting RKO movie. And, yeah, I liked him. But the funnier part was that once he changed his name, his brother, who wanted to be a cameraman, as they called him in those days, not cinematographer, cameraman. And so he became Stanley Cortez.

Stanley Cortez. And that's the man who shot you know the Magnificent Ambersons and the Night of the Hunter for Charles Walton. Became one of the great cameramen but he was Stanley Krantz.

But you know it gets me when I watch the Ricardo Cortez Maltese Falcon, I thought, I didn't like it that much. But I remember thinking, it's almost exact to the classic Humphrey Bogart version that would come years later. And how come the Humphrey Bogart version is so much more powerful? Well, it had a better director, John Huston, making his directing debut. He also did the screenplay.

But like the people who wrote and directed the 1931 version, they stuck to the book. That's why they're so similar. They're really just using Dashiell Hammett's narrative and dialogue. I thought when I saw the 31 version, which I saw like you, long after I'd memorized the 41 movie, I thought, well, who could possibly play Casper Gutman? Who could possibly take the place of Elisha cook jr well i think they cast those roles really well because the gunsel who we know is elisha cook jr dwight dwight fry yes yes i mean

if you wanted a creepy guy you couldn't do better than that yes and dudley diggs who's a familiar character actor is very good as Casper Gutman. I mean, you know, and B.B. Daniels is a very good leading lady. And the 31 version was pre-code. So it's got a little more sexual tension in it and some implications of things going on that they don't actually show. And I think it's an interesting film Hey Gil, since Leonard's talking about Sidney Greenstreet and Maltese Falcon

favor him a little bit, give him a little taste No it's you who bundled it you and your stupid attempt to buy it Kevin found out how valuable it was no wonder he had such an easy time finding it.

You imbecile. You blundering fathead. Bravo. Bravo. Is that perfect? It is perfect. He does Sidney Greenstreet, too. Yeah.

I enjoy talking to a man who enjoys the talk. I distrust closed mouth men. They usually say too much at the wrong time. Beautiful. It keeps me entertained, Leonard. With that, the Bogart Maltese folk, and when I look at everyone in that, I think if someone were to say to me, who was, tell me quickly, who Humphrey Bogart, Peter Lorre,

Sidney Greenstreet, and Elijah Cook were, I'd go, just watch that movie. And they were all at their best. I got to interview Elijah Cook once. Wow. Just briefly. And I said, because he turns up in late 30s movies playing college freshmen, you know, all sorts of innocuous parts.

He had a sitcom career, too, in the 70s. Yeah. And I said, did it bother you that after playing Wilmer in The Maltese Falcon, you were almost exclusively cast as weirdos and wackos? He said, nah, it's more fun playing pricks. And, you know, you were talking about The Maltese Falcon and the Sydney Green Street speech. And I remember when I saw The Maltese Falcon,

I thought if I were to make a trailer it was there's one line in the maltese falcon where uh sydney green street says if oh he goes i love wilma i oh i I love Wilma like a son. But if you lose a son, you can always get another one. But there's only one. There's only one Maltese Falcon. And I thought that line would have been the entire trailer if I made it. What a line. Everybody in that film is so good.

Lee Patrick as Effie, the secretary. Mary Astor. Yes. Mary Astor has never been better. What a great, great... I mean, she's playing a woman who is deceitful. And so she has to be convincing

enough to let Bogart fall for her line for at least a little while. But she has to convey in some way that she's not telling the truth. It's one of those movies that just makes you happy to be alive. Oh, Barton McLean, Ward Bond. Barton McLean.

Yes. Jerome Cowan. What a cast. Gladys George. And a tiny appearance by Walter Houston. Walter Houston. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I heard that Mary Astor would run before some of her scenes so she'd be out of breath when she was talking to him to get that nervous, scared performance.

That's great. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. A wonderful movie that everybody needs to see several times. And I heard also as a joke, Bogart and Peter Lorre used to sneak into Mary Asher's dressing room and then walk out zipping their flies up. Those were the days. A clunky segue but Leonard

in the little time that we have left we have to talk about our mutual friend James James Caron Jimmy Jimmy Caron little did I dream

when I grew up watching this pleasant man who was the spokesperson for Pathmark Supermarket yes indeed that's where most of us knew.

Where we first saw him. And that I would get to know him and become a close friend. He and his wife, Alba, are very close to all of my family, my wife, Alice, my daughter, Jessie. And we're sad for Alba, really, because she's lost her soulmate. And we're sad for us because no more stories from Jimmy. And he had lots of them. Boy, did he have lots of them.

He was a working actor who came to New York from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, and hung out with Marlon Brando in the 40s, was at the actor's studio when Marilyn Monroe was there in the 50s. He did so many things, and he was a very social, he collected people. He acquired new friends anywhere he was, anywhere he was working.

He acquired new friends anywhere he was, anywhere he was working. And this is out of the blue. He did a guest shot on Hawaii Five-0. So they fly him to Hawaii, and he's sitting in a car, a police car, with the co-stars of the show. And I'm not going to get all their names right, so I won't do it at all. But you all know who the other guys were. Oh, Cam Fong and those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jack Lord, who was in the driver's seat, gets up and gets out of the car for a while

while they're waiting to set up the next shot. And Jimmy says to the other actor, oh, James MacArthur. James MacArthur was there. So Jimmy says to MacArthur and some of the other guys, so, because he's a very social guy, so how long have you been on the show? And what do you do?

Do you live here full time? And they're being very reticent. They're very reticent. And he said, is something wrong and they said we're not allowed to talk when jack is in the car oh my god now you oh my god you told me a story how like the son of the head of pathmark yes yeah yes, I guess the statute of limitations has passed. And Jimmy's gone. So I'll tell this story without comment or embellishment.

Okay. But he wound up working for them for 30 years. At one point, they were going to get rid of him. And then they did some testing and surveying and found that he was the most recognizable man in New York television. Because let's face it, the news anchor on Channel 4 is only on Channel 4. Sure. The one on Channel 11 is only on Channel 11. Jimmy was on all the channels speaking for Pathmark all those years.

So that was his first near miss. They had to re-sign him. But then the son of, I think, the chairman of Pathmark Stores, I don't want to impugn the wrong person here, was kind of a smartass. And he said to Jimmy one day when they were shooting in the autumn, I think, you know, man, this is probably the last cycle. We'll have you doing these.

Jim said, well, you know, I know nothing lasts forever, you know, but can I ask you why? And the guy says, why? He says, look in the mirror, man, you're old. And Jimmy said, well, I hope you die of cancer. Without missing a beat. Without missing a beat, that's what he responded. Oh my God. He's such a nice man. You don't even imagine that coming out of him.

No, of course not. Of course not. That's what makes it funny. I remember a couple of years ago, I was in a movie in L.A., and the director knew I was crazy about old Hollywood, and he goes, well, you're going to be working tomorrow with this actor, James Caron, who I think you two will get along with. It's great.

And I didn't know the name at the time. The minute I saw him, it was, oh, that guy. Yeah. And then it was, the minute we started talking, it's like we knew each other for 20 years. Yes, that's how he was. And he, then after that, like when I, sometimes I'd call him or he'd call me

and it was always the same greeting. He would always go well hello my boy yes he was he was just a a sweetheart of a guy uh i'll tell you and he came from a show business stock good good yes indeed good bloodlines and that came up when i was at the TCM Classic Film Festival. This is maybe four, five years ago tops. And they had succeeded in finding and flying over Peggy Cummins, the leading lady of Gun Crazy. Gun Crazy.

Yeah, I love that one. And she was still a beautiful woman. And so we all watched Eddie Muller, the czar of noir, interviewed her on stage at the Egyptian, no, at the, maybe it was the Egyptian theater. And then we left midway through the movie because we were all going to have dinner. So she said to me, I happened to be in stride with her crossing Hollywood Boulevard. She said to me, I happen to be in stride with her crossing Hollywood Boulevard. And she said, who is that nice man, that interesting man who was just talking to me?

I said, well, his name is James Caron, Jimmy Caron. I said, he's a working actor, character actor. I said, in fact, his uncle was Morris Karnofsky, a great star of the Yiddish theater and Broadway as well. And she looked at me. She said, well, he's in our movie, isn't he? He plays the judge. Morris Karnofsky plays the judge at the beginning of Gun Crazy. How about that?

So, I mean, you know, there are only six connections in life. I learned so much about him, too, from your tribute, from the tribute on your website. I didn't know that he was friends with George Clooney and Morgan Freeman and Oliver Stein. I know, as you say, he collected people. He collected friendships. He did. Our friend Richard Kind, obviously, too, was close to him. And I didn't know the Bryan Singer story, which is a touching story. That he did that for a kid, that he gave a kid a little.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was this talented kid going to the USC film school and asked Jimmy to play a part in one of his student films. And he did. And being social, again, Jimmy struck up conversations with him and got to know him a little bit and learned that apparently Brian's parents were not supportive of him going into this field. Ryan had a lot of talent and that he wasn't wasting his time or going off on a wild goose chase, that he could really succeed in the film world. And it made a difference. Well.

It made a difference. What a nice thing to have done. And I remember he always, when we talk on the phone, he would always say to me, oh oh and tell your wife she has all of my sympathy he knew how to deliver a lie he did and i went went to his house and and a thing when guests went to his house yeah was he owned one of buster keaton's hats. Yep. And he would take a picture of them wearing Buster Keaton's hat. Yep. It was very close to Buster's widow, Eleanor. And

it was a devoted friend to her. And she to him. And what he did for Keaton, too, at that point in his life, was also generous. Oh, yes. Here's another story. One story also generous and oh yes here's here's another story a one story that james caron always told me to shut up when i was on the podcast we can always cut it out go ahead he said when he was doing um uh you know every any given sunday Al Pacino and Cameron Diaz,

that Cameron Diaz one time came in and said, oh, my breasts feel so sore. And she said, Jimmy, would you rub my breasts for me? And he rubbed Cameron Diaz breasts. And I always thought, boy, if that were me, I'd make sure everybody knew that story. That's the one he didn't want you to tell on the podcast. Now I'm insulted.

He never told me that story. Because I said, tell a Cameron Diaz story. And he said, I don't want to hear her name out of your lips. I don't want to hear her name out of your lips I called him a couple of weeks ago he had never signed a release form for this show Leonard

and my wife found it in doing the paperwork and I said oh good an excuse to call James and I called him and Alba got on the phone and we talked and boy Gilbert

did he love you oh yeah yeah and it was and I really feel blessed that I got to talk to him. Yeah, well, I feel the same. One last time. He really brightened everybody's life. He did.

And in those last days, his voice was exactly the same. Sounded the same to me. And still bright and energetic. I know. The weird part is, and George Clooney referred to this when he accepted his AFI Lifetime Achievement Award this past spring. He opened his speech, actually, Clooney did, by talking about his good friend Jimmy Caron. Ah. And how a couple of years ago it looked like he

was headed toward death. We remember. And in fact Alba had put him in hospice care. And so she asked me on his behalf to write an obit and make sure it was accurate.

I said I will. And she gave me a couple of names of people who might reach out with some quotes, you know, for the obit. And so my wife picked up the phone one morning and it was Morgan Freeman on the phone. Now that doesn't happen every day. No. Except maybe if you're his agent or something.

And I got on the phone with him and he couldn't have been sweeter. Well, I will, I'm sorry to interrupt. And then George Clooney sent me a series of emails, back and forth. He was in London at the time. And Oliver Stone gave us a statement, a very nice statement,

because he had directed Jimmy several times. And he cut a wide swath. for a man who was not you know a star yeah he was not i mean you knew him gilbert but you knew him by face yeah on site you didn't know you know who he really was and uh but he sure he sure made a difference in a lot of people's lives. That's nice. I was going to say, I will direct our listeners to go to your website and read the tribute. And the Clooney stuff is really quite beautiful. Thank you. Yeah.

And it was a lovely tribute. Also, by the way, I should put a cap on the story, is I finished the obit, and then he lived. Yes, he rallied. He rallied. He didn't need hospice care. I think what they had, they had either misdiagnosed something or were giving him too much medication, something of that sort. And whatever the circumstances, he was back to being his old self. And I picked up the phone one day and it was him on the phone. And it was, you know, I've never had an experience like that before where someone has been written off and then bounces back. And he did. Now, you know, he was weaker.

And in, you know, the last year or two, he was definitely weaker and slimmer, lost weight, and he had good days and bad days, but he was essentially still our Jimmy. I'm glad that he got to stick around so long and affect so many people's lives. Yeah, me too. And I'm glad we do a show like this because we got to introduce him to another generation. Sure. Whole other audiences, people who knew him

from the path, Mark, spots, or may have known him from Poltergeist, but didn't know everything else that he accomplished. Right. And so it gives us

a sense of pride to get to pay tribute to him in a way, as we did on this show. Which brings me to your podcast and people you got on that show that we didn't get, like Rick Baker and Norman Lloyd. Gilbert's going to kill himself.

Oh, God. We want Rick Baker in the worst way. Yes. But it's a great show, Leonard, and a labor of love and a tribute to these people's lives and careers like our show is. And I have a great partner in crime, which is my daughter, Jessie. Yes. Yes. like our show is. And I have a great partner in crime, which is my daughter, Jessie. Yes, yes. Who is not only my co-host

and a really good one and a lively one. And she brings her point of view from a more youthful place than I reside right now. And she's also become the producer. She's the one that was going through the adventure of trying to book celebrities,

which, as you know, can lead to a migraine. We are aware. I wish I had a child to put to work on this show. I would have done it by now. I would say that she works cheap, but that would be a lie.

Well, good for her. All runs on deck. I did your show in front of an audience. Oh, yes, down in Austin, Texas for her. And I remember, I did your show in front of an audience. Oh, yes, down in Austin, Texas. Yep. We had a great time. It's a terrific show.

And a good audience, too. Yeah, I mean, and I can't wait to listen to Werner Herzog. Oh, that's a lot of fun. I can't wait. Malton on movies. Malton on movies. Yes. Wherever better books are sold or something like that.

It was very sweet, too, when you had Pacino and you and Jesse were complimenting him. You were saying all of these movies, these gifts that you've given us, pieces of time. Yeah. They're pieces of time. It was very sweet. And he seemed genuinely touched. Well, he was just a dream. Yeah.

And I'd interviewed him a number of times, but like years ago. In fact, I was the only person who got him and De Niro together on camera when they made Heat. I love that picture. And that was only because I'd interviewed them both before. And De Niro is the most reluctant television interview there is, but he's not stupid. He's just uncomfortable talking extemporaneously on TV. But he was comfortable with his pal Pacino, and they felt comfortable with me, and so I got to interview the both of them. And here's the PS. So I have, whatever, 15 minutes to do this in a New York hotel room.

And when I'm done, in those days before cell phones took over cameras, I threw my point-and-shoot camera to an intern who was standing nearby. I said, take a picture. So they were sitting in two straight back chairs. I stood behind them and he took one shot. And then I said, take one more. And just as he's about to press down the shutter, De Niro says, cheese.

And he cracked us all up. So I have a really rare photo. Not only do I have a photo with Pacino and De Niro, but we're all laughing. Oh, I want to see that photo. You have to email it to me. I can do that. That's a classic. The podcast is great.

I love the Billy Bob Thornton episode. We'll plug the book. This book, too, from 2010, 151 Best Movies You've Never Seen. The new book is Hooked on Hollywood. I'm going to make Gilbert read that Burgess Meredith interview that he's going to love. Also, and no spoilers, but there's some great Errol Flynn stories in that book. He hated a certain group of people

who I think we may be familiar with. And also the website itself, LeonardMalton.com, which has great tributes to people like James Caron and Harlan Ellison and lots of treasures. I heard they nicknamed him the Great Jew Hater. Oh, I've never heard this, Gilbert.

Yes. I'm not saying it's not true, but I've never heard this. Gilbert's big on hell. Who was anti-Semitic in Hollywoodwood we could do whole episodes about it but i see i am the opposite i don't want to know because i don't want it to affect my ability to watch yeah certain old movies yeah yeah and i get that so i take the ignorance is bliss attitude that That's not condoning anti-Semitism. It's just, as I say, ignorance is bliss. See, that's the reason I can't enjoy Passion of the Christ. Leonard, thanks for doing this and schlepping.

Not a big schlep, but a big reward. Wonderful to be talking to you guys. Thanks, man. Thank you. So let me just wrap it by saying this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to someone who, when you're on the show, I forget we're doing a podcast. And I just feel like we're just sitting around talking. That's a nice compliment.

Thank you, Gil. Yes. You ever in New York much, Leonard? Because we should do one of these in person. I'm from New York. I'm a native New Yorker. I know. I know you am. But you don't come back much. But I don't get back very often. Too bad. Because we could just do six and seven hours of this and the time would just fly

by. They could bring in pastrami every now and then. And some brioche. Yes. Malton on Movies is the podcast. Hooked on Hollywood is the new book. Leonard Malton's classic movie guide, also great.

God, how I miss the old ones, too. LeonardMalton.com and anything else he's got going on. That's right. I'm also available on the corner of Selma and Vine Street on alternate Thursdays for book signing. And go to Leonard's website,

read the lovely tribute to James Caron, and go look up the credits of Leslie H. Martinson, because it'll blow your mind. We'll do another one, Leonard, because we didn't get to talk about fake Shemp and fake Stymie. Oh, yes. There's hours more. Hours more.

Hours more of this stuff. Thanks, pal. Thank you, guys. Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see When you're hugging with your baby In the last row of the balcony Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast is produced by

Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn. But they never can compare to the girls sitting by my side Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see

When you're hugging with your baby in the last row of the magazine the movies. Who cares what picture you see when you're hugging with your baby in the last row of the balcony. Oh, Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see When you're hugging with your baby In the last row of the balcony Oh, Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see

When you're hugging with your baby in the last row of the balcony Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see