Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Penn Jillette Returns

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

In connection with this week's "Fun for All Ages" conversation about "The Day the Clown Cried," GGACP revisits this 2015 interview with illusionist, filmmaker and comedian Penn Jillette. In this episode, Penn opines on a host of offbeat topics ranging from Jerry Lewis' ill-fated pet project to strippers’ tricks of the trade, the comedy of Dennis Miller, the cinema of the Three Stooges and failed attempts to summon the spirit of Bela Lugosi. Also: Penn debunks “cold readings,” exposes phone scams, disses Richie Havens and compares Jerry Lewis to Lou Reed. PLUS: The Amazing Kreskin! Penn auditions for “Ishtar”! And Gilbert annoys Harrison Ford!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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for something so fantastic. So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic. Hi, I thought I thought I was just being hi, I thought I was just being polite. Okay, because you said hi. So I would say hi back.

Can we adjust the mic? I think there's an echo on this one. Hi. Hi. Oh, damn it. I can't get this thing to work. No, it's fine. I just wanted to greet you.

I mean, you're home. Yes. A fellow says hi in your home. You say hi back to him. Yeah. Okay. Hi. Hi.

Well, hello. Hello. I would say hi to the audience. Oh, hello. I want to say hi to the audience, too. This is, uh, uh, Gilberg-Gonfrey. What is it? Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

You read your own intro. Hi, this is Gilbert Godfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Can you do it in my voice? Oh, this is... Hi, this is Gilbert Godfrey's amazing, astonishing podcast. Hi, I'll start again. Hi, this is Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast. Our guest this week is our first guest.

to make a return appearance on the show, which will tell you how well my career is going. He's an illusionist, a writer, best-selling author, actor, comedian, producer, and half of the legendary comedy and magic duo, Penn and Teller. He's also the filmmaker behind critically acclaimed. I just took the Bobcat Goldway. Critically acclaimed documentary. Suck.

Documentaries suck? Documentaries such as the aristocrat. He's critically acclaimed documentaries that suck, like the aristocrats at Tim's Vermeer. Oh, it was a joke. Oh, that's right. It's Gilbert Godfrey, and he represents himself as a comedian,

although his Saturday Night Live career would not give you any indication of that. Or maybe I should say his stunningly funny S&L career because then you would hear But wait a minute, it wasn't that. So it must have been a joke. It kind of had a double-length meaning. Well, not double meaning, a single meaning.

He was kind of sarcastic in a way. It was not really so much sarcastic is just inaccurate. It's kind of like if it was raining and said, this is a nice day. Boy, it's a very nice day. Make sure you get your umbrella. Why did you say umbrella? Because you like the rain? No, I don't like the rain.

I don't like the rain at all. It's why I say one thing and mean another. It's what comedy is. Now, comedy usually has some sort of surprise. Like if I hit my head and I said, oh, my head feels great now. Oh, you say, boy, that feels better than getting kicked in the ass with a frozen boot. And you say, but getting kicked in the ass with a frozen boot, that doesn't feel good. Yeah.

It's Broadway show entitled, clever. I was spinning all over my microphone, which makes this worth a lot more on eBay. Because it really wouldn't be. It wouldn't be worth any. thing on eBay. Because when you come right to, you know, Johnny Carson used to sit around and say, what's funny? We used to try to figure out

what's funny. And it turns out if you're Gilbert Godfried simply saying something that's not true. That's funny. Like I watched Johnny Carson last night. No, you didn't. He hasn't been on for decades. For decades. So that's funny. Motherfucker's dead.

How dead is he? He's dead as a hammer. Now, you say why did you say dead as a hammer? A hammer's not really ever been alive, so it wouldn't really be dead. Do you have any squid material? Cleverly enough, Penn and Teller on Broadway. It's not clever. Yeah.

It's a simple declarative statement. It's now playing... And I could say, watch it like being by yourself on stage. Because you're not. I'm not by myself. You're in a team. Well, actually, that's not funny because if you don't tell her, I'm by myself. Yes, you're...

It's kind of like saying to a guy who has a team. a 40 pound weight around his neck as he swims the English Channel. You had all that help of the 40 pound weight around your neck as you swam the English Channel. And the guy would say, well, it's not really help. It's kind of like warming up with a lead

baseball bat. And you say, well, and you say, why do you have a baseball bat when you're swimming the English Channel? And when he's swimming, I could yell out, don't get wet. Yeah, you could yell that out. That would be common because you're in the ocean. Also, don't get salty. Yes.

Because there's salt. It's a saline solution. It's a saline solution. Pennant-Teller on Broadway is now playing to sold-out houses, which is funny. Because it's empty. I was there. There was not one person in the audience. You can't even say one other person because you left.

You can play football in the theater. You could play the park cars. As a matter of fact, they gave you a little red jacket and someone gave you a 20. They gave you a 20 because you had a red jacket and a flashlight. You were holding a flashlight. But, you know, it's kind of funny because it doesn't flash. No, it's a constant light. It's very funny.

Unless the batteries are in being weak. And his TV series, well, then it would be intermittent, not so much flashing. But, you know, in comedy, in comedy, if you say something's flashing and it's actually intermittent, that's called subtle comedy. That would be like John Stort. If you would say Henny Youngman, he would say flashing and the light would be off. But John Stewart, he would say flashing and the light would be intermittent. And that's where we've come to comedy in 50 years.

We've gone from off to intermittent. His show series Penn & Teller Fool Us concurrently, which is not true because it's on once a week, can currently be seen. So that's funny. Here, concurrently. This is nothing. He's a comedy fucking gold, and I say comedy gold, and you say, well, that's funny, because this isn't funny. I think Charlie Chapman wrote that. He sure did.

Charlie, the little tramp, one of my favorite character. And I think Groucho would have sounded like this. Please welcome a man who has been a close, which is funny, because we're not personal, which we never are. No. Friend of mine, which we aren't. For longer than he wants to think about. Now, which is true, and therefore not funny. Hey, Penn, Gillette!

And I'm very tall, and you're very short. Very short. See? Very. That's funny. That's double comedy. It's a little, this is the production of mice and men with two lennies. Hello, Gilbert.

How are you? Wow. Now, you don't often come on a show, and right when you look in your glass, there's black shit floating. Now, we're going to hope. We apologize for that. hope that's a coffee ground. That's a coffee. Is it walking?

It's not, actually, this is one of those, you know when you have food, when there's a little bit of food on your copper plate, because it's not washed properly, and when you just, when you just poke it with your finger, it's somehow not that disgusting, but when you have to pick at it, then it's really unpleasant. This is a kind of, this is what we call filings. that you have to pick at. It actually has some texture to it. You know, so I went, I was moving in with a woman who was a bartender at a topless restaurant.

Yeah, oh, it sounds good. But she did not work topless because when you're behind the bar, you can't work topless because there are laws about that because when nipples interact with alcohol, it's like, remember 70 years ago and Hiroshima? I just spit right in your face. Good timing. You don't want to get, you do not want. to get tits near alcohol,

which is why your bartender. She was in a topless bar as a bartender. And we were moving in together, and we thought we were grown-ups, you know? Yeah. So, you know, we thought, oh, we won't just fuck, we'll also move in together because when you're young, you think that's a good idea.

Very bad idea. Pretty soon they're making your friends look at old art of yours on the wall. You know what I'm saying? So, so, we went to Macy's, Can I say Macy's? Yeah. No. On a department, let's just say, a department store in California.

And she wanted to pick out plates. Now, I can't argue with her because at this point, I was a magician, and she was a bartender and a topless bar. So just a show of hands, who knows who was making the money in the family? I was, she had all the money. I had no money at all. She supported us completely. So she wanted to buy plates, so I had to go and buy plates with her. Now, if it were my money, it would be fuck you, we'll eat off paper plates.

Yes. Better off, eat off my dick. But we were going to buy plates. And I said, and this is when I probably knew that I should stick with magic and not try to be a comedian, I said to the salesperson in the plate department. And we were in our 20s, and one of us was really a. You know, and we looked like a loving young couple about to go to Thailand on our honeymoon and fuck she-mails. And like the two people.

But you could get them cheap, so it's okay. We don't like the word cheap, affordable. Affordable chicks with digs. Yeah, affordable chicks with dicks. And she was very attractive. So she said we'd like to pick out some plates for our new house. We bought, actually bought our house from her parents. So she was living in her parents' house.

We bought their house with her money. And we're going to buy plates. And I was feeling, I was trying to feel domestic. But, of course, at that point, like now, I was a creep. So I was, you know, I was a weird guy. Not the kind of guy you'd want to go to Macy's and pick out plates with unless you were her. And she, unless you were she. And, oh, so.

And, uh. So we're saying they're saying there You have like Gilbert Touretchen Yeah That's just Yes Two Kike

I wish we'd been on video too Because that impression of Gilbert Was so visual During the intro Well you just have to eliminate your eyes They miss so much It's my impersonation of Gilbert Godfried

And Edipus Rex Identical I just want to show that it could be a little classy that it wouldn't be all. You know, if in one show I hear Chicks with Dix and Oedipus Rex, and Edipus is pronounced in a kind of a pedantic way, like you're going to, you know, Amherst College,

but not Princeton, but Amherst, and you say Edipus Rex and eatable complex, if you got Chicks with Dix and Edipus Rex in one podcast, I'm saying, oh, this covers the high and the low, like Shakespeare. He talks about life and death and makes a fart joke. So we were there in the Macy's. Yes.

And they're showing us plates because we're buying plates. Now, just how much do you think I have an opinion on what plates? Yes. None whatsoever. No, no. But I wanted to be funny. This is the last moment I ever tried to be funny. Yeah.

After that, I was just honest and let people laugh at me. Yeah. Which, you know, D. Snyder noticed that about me. that I very rarely do sarcasm or satire or tell the joke. I simply state what I believe honestly, and then people laugh at me. That's my idea of comedy. This may have been the last time I tried to do a joke. I'm there with a very, very attractive redhead, okay?

Very attractive, beautiful woman. And I'm, you know, Sasquatch there, standing there big and dumb with big hair hanging to my face and, you know, ugly as the bottom of me. your foot and we're standing there and they're going you know the sales was looking at me and go well he doesn't have money I guess he has the largest dick in christendom and so we're there looking at the plates and he said do you know what kind of pattern you're looking for and we I said this is what I thought was hysterical I said we're looking for a kind of pattern that won't show the stains like if there's dried egg on it you won't notice it why

Lots of them won't show stains. To me, that was the funniest thing in the world. I waited. I waited for them to go. You know, like on a rug, you wouldn't want stains to show. Or on a white shirt when you're going out to eat spaghetti. But on a plate, you really don't want stains to be hidden because you wouldn't want to find with your fork.

Like you're eating a piece of cold slaw, and then your fork goes over the yellow part of the plate, and you realize there's gelatinous egg yolk stuck there from the last cycle of the dishwasher. You were waiting for them to go, hey, he's a regular Gilbert Gottreys. I was waiting for that. He says that he doesn't want the food to be shown

rather than just washing the food off the plate, like the plates are dirty. And they both looked at me. And then I waited a moment. And I said, that was my way of signaling it. You know how George Burns would finish a joke and then use the cigar as timing? And Jack Benny would maybe just look into space. You know, my way was we kind of wanted to, let me do the whole thing.

Don't interrupt me. I want you to hear the exact timing. We were kind of looking for a pattern that wouldn't show food stains. that was my time and when I went so that was kind of like fog hog foghorn and leg horn going

that's a joke son well at least foghorn leghorn had the testicles to go that's a joke I didn't even have the guts I just kind of went huh and she said yeah maybe I'll pick out the pattern

and that was an epiphany for you I'm not going to go into comedy I said maybe I'll work a little bit more in Charlie's path and learn to do a good decent card tricks because otherwise I'm not going to make a living and you know I'm not going to have strippers support me the rest of my life

turned out I did but I was worried I remember being on a strip club with me I mean I want to make this very clear we were both patrons you went to a strip club and one of us was working

And I remember that there was a female bartender, of course, and what she would do, she wanted to get tips, and so she didn't want her tits covered. So she would like, when she'd lean over to ask your order, she would, with her finger, like, kind of pull down the top of her shirt. Like your uncle with the fart joke? Yeah, yes. No, pull down the finger, not pulling. She put her finger, like, at her. her shirt and pull it aside or down to show her nipple. I'll give a little shot of the nipple.

Yeah. But make sure that alcohol doesn't touch it or Poo, Nagasaki. When they pass that law that in some strip clubs, if they serve alcohol, the nipples have to be covered. They got around it by putting clear tape. Oh, even better. Yeah. No, they went as in Jersey, because everything's better in Jersey.

In Jersey, they know, I happen to know an off. I have, I won't say it's a vocation, but certainly it was a vocation at times. But an avocation certainly for, we'll banging the shit out of strippers. And so I've known many of them very, very well. They will take, let me demonstrate. See, now he. Get the camera ready. They will take clear, near, you're with me on this, right?

You've done this. Okay, can I tell the audience, Penn is now showing his nipple. His shirt is open. And he's showing his nipple. And I'll never get another heart. I'm not touching your nipple. Frank. Frank, this is why you're here.

You don't pay me enough. It's very hard. You were looking to monetize. Here it is. Feel how hard my nipple? Frank is touching Penn's nipple. Yes. And with full consent.

Even in Ohio and at college, that would have been allowed. Even if we were at Oberlin or even at Antioch College, that would have been a sexual. counter that was acceptable. I asked you to touch my nipple. You did. I'm comfortable in my masculinity. Sure.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I was talking about the laws about... So you're, he touched your, prank touch... They will take... You're with me on this? Because you might want to do this when you're in Thailand. No, you'll have to touch some testicles. Yeah, well... We should explain that we're here with our engineer

and his new bride and they're headed to Thailand on the honeymoon. We only know... For me, there's one reason to go to Thailand. Yes. Right. And that is, you know, trans people.

And the Thai food. Okay, so now he's licking his lip. I know he's licking his finger. Now, see, he's setting up testimony that he does not know his lip from his finger. So when he is deposed in the Cosby trial, he'll be able to go, oh, I have some previous information, Your Honor, that shows that the word nipple and the word finger are the same to me. You take a little bit of clear nail polish. Oh my God!

And they put clear nail polish on it. And then they say, officer, my nipple is covered with clear nail polish. And I know that because one of my girlfriends in Jersey, when she would come home from work, my job was to gently put the acetone on her nipple to get off the... That would make a great movie. Sort of like the dresser. Yes. with Albert Finney.

I think what he means is you take the five-second process of putting acetone on the deal. It would be a short. And slow it down to an hour and a half. Or it could be a three stoogers show. And the stripper could go, Are you sure you three guys know what you're doing? That could have been someone's job. You think that was someone's job at the club?

It was my job. But you were in a relationship with her. but someone at the club actually had to take the relationship. Relationship? You think it was a relationship? If you are taking acid, are you using acetone to take a nail polish remover off the nipple of a woman in Jersey? We don't call that a relationship, okay? In Thailand, that's a legal marriage.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after. this. It's the Nissan Black Friday event where you can wait wait. Isn't it like a month long now? Nissan Blackfri month? Does that work? It's the Nissan Black Friday month event. On remaining 2025

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Speaking of the podcast not being heard for 40 years, what do you make of this news that the day the clown cried? You know, I only saw the headlock. I only saw the headlock. Ten years from now. Is there a, yeah, ten years from now? And is the movie cut? Is it?

That I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that it's been assembled. Did Belzer see it? No, Harry Shearer. Harry Shearer saw it, yeah. Yeah. And have you read the script?

You don't read. I glanced through. Someone sent me this script. Yeah. It's available. is available online. For those of you who don't know, you shouldn't be listening to this podcast.

That's right. I don't think we've ever talked about it, though. Jerry Lewis is a clown in Germany, and he gets... Okay, we'll get to the movie. Yeah. Helmut Dirk. Yes.

As a matter of fact, you know, I auditioned for Ishtar. Oh, that's a scoop. I auditioned for Ishtar, and I went in with Elaine May, she directed. We went with Elaine May and she said to me

it was with the producers this is very much like the story of I want a plate pattern that doesn't show stains and she said to me we're doing this movie Ishtar and you've got your page and let me just give you a little bit of the backstory

Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman are washed up entertainers I said oh it's a documentary and there was not a smile the room. There was not the slightest twinkle of a grin. They just went,

and I went, which is my trademark, went a joke. And I mean, it just went nowhere. And they barely auditioned to me after that. They were really pissed that I made that joke. What part were you auditioning for? Was it Jack Weston's part? I don't know. I don't remember. You have the movie memorized.

Well, we had Paul Williams on the show a couple weeks ago, and he wrote all those crazy songs for the movie. The intentionally bad songs that they sing? Well, you know, yeah. Paul Williams tries to claim, oh yeah, Rainbow, are not easy being green?

Intentionally bad. Why are there so many songs about rainbows? Trying to be silly, trying to be bad. Rainy days and Mondays always get me down. Just a howl and how bad it was. Just slapping at the table and how fun. That's a howlower.

It was a challenge for him because the songs were supposed to be. I know. I know Paul. I don't call him Paul, you know. I call him Lanky. That's my nickname for him. Because when I met him, you know, he's got his, the woman he's on with Tracy. Yeah, Tracy Jackson.

Tracy Jackson, he's on with. And I walked in, and Neil deGrasse Tyson was also there, and I know Neil for a while. And Neil and I were standing there. And then Tracy came in and said, goodness, Penn, how much weight have you lost? And I said, you know, over 100 pounds. And she said, wow, you look lanky. And Paul Williams said, my whole life, I've always wanted to be called lanky. And I said, for the rest of my life, I shall call you lanky.

So we then went and did the podcast. And every time I had to refer to him, I would say, you know, my friend Lanky, who I've known for years. And Tracy would always try to jump in explaining why I was calling him lanky, and I would never let her. And I wanted people to just go lanky. Why would you? So anyway, Lanky. was talking about Ishtar. And I don't know what part they had.

Because I'm telling you, they were pissed off. That's interesting. They were pissed off. And that seems like the obvious joke to make, doesn't it? Yeah. You wouldn't be pissed off by that? You'd think someone like Elaine May would have a sense of humor about something like that? Well, Lane May was great, right?

What did she do that was good? Oh, well, Nichols and May. Do you know a pen moment I had? Oh, good. Now, now we're using Penn Moment as a term when you say something that's not funny. You can hope that catches on in the Melbourne claim. I was on the Tonight Show, and Harrison Ford. With Johnny Carson?

No, with Jack Park. And Harrison Ford was on, and he said, you know, I'm a big fan. I loved you in the aristocrats. I love dope. And I can't leave well enough alone, like rather than just say, oh, thank you. Yeah, which would have been a fine response. Yes. Now, is this on the air?

Uh, no, no. They're backstage. And, and I shook his hand and I go, oh, thank you. And you are? Uh-huh. And it was basically, all it needed was a, uh-huh. And it was like the longest three seconds of my life after that. And then did he finally say Harrison Ford? Uh, yes. Oh, that's great. Yes. So I would say in that exchange, Harrison Ford, wins. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And to this day, I'm going, why didn't I just say, oh, thank you? Yeah. Well, you know, I like Blade Runner. When I can't sleep at night and I wake up in a cold sweat of what a failure or an awful person I am, it almost always revolves around why didn't I just say thank you?

Oh, God. Why didn't I just say thank you? you. Why did I say fuck you, you miserable asshole? I'm just saying thank you. Why didn't I just say thank? Is a matter of fact, Hitler in the bunker? Why didn't I just

say thank you? They made me chancellor. I could have just said thank you. Why'd I have to go a step further? I could have gotten a nice office and been there now. Sure. And Charlie Manson. They let me out of prison. I'd let me out of prison.

I had five women who would do anything sexually for me. Why didn't I just say thank you? Hey, listen to my crappy song. Yeah, I had the beach boys coming over. And, you know, if you read about the Charlie Manson stuff, you know, the sexual stuff to me is the most important part. Because they would do anything there. You know, I always aspire to polymorphous perverse. And why do you cross that line?

Why after you've had a four-day orgy with eight women and you, why don't you just go, thank you, instead of going, I've got an idea, let's go carve up a pregnant woman. You start a race war. Yeah. But, of course, he failed so miserably. And I like how in prison now he's got a swastika tattoo on his head. Yeah.

Well, you know, Dennis Miller had that great joke where he said, before going to his parole hearing, Charlie Manson, carved a swatskin to his head. What better way to signal to the parole board that you've got your personal shit together? But I won't do that in Dennis Miller's voice. You do Dennis Miller, don't you? You have a good voice of that.

Just basically like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't he have a fiancé in prison recently? Charlie was going to get married. But then he said, you know, I sit with my, with my iPad, and I read the New York Times most days. And some days I just go, Charlie Manson busted his fiance

saying she doesn't really love me. She's crazy. She's just in it for the publicity. That's cold. Now what level do you get at where Charlie Manson is calling you out as crazy completely correctly? Every word of that, by the way, is absolutely true, right?

There was nothing crazy about that at all. So it says, old Charlie Manson walked in the Macy's and said, you know, the joke about the pattern not showing food stains, not particularly funny, and they're not going to get it. Just let your girlfriend, who's having a wonderful time and is paying for everything, pick out a pattern that she likes and say, that's very nice, dear. Why don't you do that? Thanks, Charlie.

Yeah, like Charles Manson going, Harrison Ford's a fine actor. Tell him he's a fine actor. I'd simply say thank you. Yes. You could have done your Amish bit. You're Kelly McGillis thing. You could have done that for him.

Sure. You should say, well, I thank you, Mr. Ford. It's an honor. Thank you. Yes. And walked away. Yeah. And Harrison Ford goes, you know, the fellow with a swastika at his head,

giving you a fine advice. He makes sense. He's given fine, fine, fine advice. advice. You know, you could follow him, Gilbert, and you'd be better off. Charlie Manson coming in and going, if you're going to be on Saturday Night Live, try to be funny. Charlie Manson coming in and going, I really don't think Alan Thick is going to knock Carson off the air.

You know, try to look down from the swastika of my forehead. I don't think Chevy Chase will be that good a talk show host. Wow, that's a reference. So you don't want to talk about the day the clown cried. I do. We weren't talking about that. We were talking about that.

So you've got to see how Gilbert and I talk. I got it. Can you demonstrate how I talk? Yes, I can demonstrate how you talk. You want to talk about the day the clown cried. So Jerry Lewis, adieu. I said kazoonhite. I say kazoonhite after I say

a Jew, because it kind of sounds like a shoe, which means I sneeze. And then saying Gazunite, because that's German for two-year health, which actually is not as polite as people think, because Gazunheit is actually saying we think there's some sort of fucking leper who sneezing all over the place.

So, so, so, so, so. Now he's hitting, so. He's got the mic move down. Yeah, he's got it. He's good at that. So, so. So you're saying. Say a Jew.

He is a Joe Gazzona. I'm back to the German. So he plays a clown who leads the children, the Jew children, the Jew, the kite children, into the gas chamber. This is supposed to be his opus, his major work.

It's the day... See, the clown cries because he made such a shitty movie that it's breaking his heart. How much did you read it? Did you read the whole thing? Yeah. Okay.

You're the really the scholar. Apparently, he changed the script. I mean, he added the slapstick. The script was a more serious attempt. But he wrote the script. No, it was written by two other people. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, a woman and a man.

And woman of swastik. And as the story goes, he added funny. Excuse me. I may have a swastick on my head, but I don't think that a movie about a clown leading Jewish children to their death during the Holocaust will be a big seller. Good idea, Chuck.

Well, you guys are Jerry fans and Jerry officinados. Why do you think he would, after burying it all this time, why do you think he would suddenly... By the way, with the provision that it not be released for 10 years, after which point Jerry will be gone? I think Jerry at some point

feels he has to, as the kid. kids say own it. Yeah. I think it's been so underground. I would bet that someone is in his ear, like Belser or one of the people that he likes and respects telling him that. You know, I've told this story many times. I won't tell it here.

But, you know, I tried to be a little cynical and analytical about Jerry Lewis. And then I met him. And, you know, those childhood hero things, you just completely melt. But I do have one observation. You can do a Jerry Lewis impersonation The serious Jerry Lewis with the imaginary Lawson, right? Yes, yes. As a filmmaker and an artist,

it behooves me. Now do the thing where he does where he trash, I'll get it, where he trashes Dean Martin while pretending to build them up. No one thought Dean was funny, but I realized he was the talented one. Oh, my God. Do that with a lozenge. Okay, that's Jerry. Ignore that ringing phone.

That's Jerry's people. Okay. Let it ring one more time. Okay, good. Okay, this was Jerry Lewis was talking, he was, like saying he was defending, like, Dean Martin. And this is, this is, this is fast. And he was totally serious, and he tells the reporter, goes, Now, when Dean and I were together, and he takes out a scrapbook, and he goes, Dean was ignored, like this review in the Times, Jerry Lewis is a creative genius, and nothing about Dean.

This one in variety, Jerry Lewis is the modern-day chaplain. And not a word about Dean Martin. And he keeps going on like that. Never got the credit. Yeah. It's what the kids call the humble brag. I realize, but so far beyond that. So far beyond that.

I realized, and when I realized this, it just hit me like a diamond bullet, you know. Jerry Lewis, in that voice, in that sense, Lou Reed. Now, Lou Reed was a good friend of mine, and I miss him tremendously, and one of my biggest heroes, and I loved Lou. But I realized, and I told Lou this,

that when Lou was speaking seriously about the Velvet Underground, he sounded exactly like Jerry Lewis in that tone. Wow. He would go, when we were doing, the Velvet Underground. people did not realize the brilliance of John Cale

they would talk about Lou Reed's songwriting Lou Reed's guitar playing Lou Reed's singing not a word about John Cale and he did the imaginary lozenge and of course I can't do the impersonation but go to YouTube and pull up some serious Lou Reed interviews, and some serious Jerry Lewis interviews.

And I think they may be, I may not be talking about attitude as much as I'm talking about age when the interviews were done. And also where they're from. I believe they're from, where's Jerry from? Oh, Jersey. Jersey, yeah. But I guess, I guess Luce from Long Island. But I don't know, the accent sounds identical to me. So maybe a very similar culture.

And I remember I was at the Letterman show. He used to host a late night talk show. Remember David? Oh, yeah. We now live in the post-John Stewart post-Leterman age. Post-Lennel age. Yeah. And I was at the Letterman show.

And I was there with Lou. Lou was appearing on the show. And I was there just as a buddy, the kind of buddy that undermines you by saying mean, wicked things. and I was telling the writers and Letterman, talks just like Jerry Lewis. Everybody was going, yeah, he really does. Once you hear it, you can't unhear it. Now, did Lou Reed ever say,

when I was with the Velvet Underground, there was not a word about Dean. Dean Martin, nothing. Then Charlie Manson comes in and goes, Dean Martin wasn't in the Velvet Underground. It's funny how often Jerry comes up on the show and almost every guest, after we've had the laughs, you know, like with Leonard Malton,

reveals that, and you, you too, that he was a hero, and that even when you're in his presence now. Because I always will make jokes about Jerry Lewis. Has he ever seen you do your telethon bit? No. You know, we can tell that? Because your legs aren't broken.

Yes, yeah, exactly. But he's nice to you, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, at the Friars, when they were naming the building after him, I went to that ceremony, and Jerry comes out and first thing he goes he goes Gilbert is anything

all right and I can't believe I'm like the first person he talks to he was amazed and then like he's there he's like yelling out stuff when they're speaking about him like just dumb shit and then he'd laugh at his own joke and he reached back

and squeezed my hand and I thought he was your hand yeah we fought earlier that nipple and finger It was the same to you. Oh, nipple and lip. But he grabbed my hand, squeezed it, and I thought, oh, my, this is like electricity. It was amazing.

I've told this story before, so I'll tell a slightly briefer version. I haven't told it on your podcast. But I was backstage with Belzer, Provenza, Stephen Wright, and one other person. And we were backstage at the Montreal. just for laughs festival. And Jerry Lewis is coming in that night to speak. And we're way at the end of the hall. So the stage doors at one end,

and we're backstage at the hall at the other end. And the four or five of us are clustered around there. And I have gotten on my high horse. Oh, yeah. And I'm saying, we're all excited about Jerry Lewis coming in here. And Jerry Lewis, I mean, what do we got? The stuff with Dean Martin is brilliant. 18 months of the biggest stars in the world.

and then essentially just a guy doing Percadan and just a self-righteous, pompous, talentless fuck. And we all still kiss his ass and blow him and pretend he's a big, big star. And he actually had 18 months in the 50s, and he was good. And you guys were all excited about him coming backstage, and it's just total bullshit. I mean, we should not give respect to a washed-up drug addict.

At that moment at the other end of the hall, the door opens. Jerry's standing there and Jerry looks to the end of the hall and goes, Pantella! And I'm dangerously near you! And he walks across the whole hall and he gives me this hug.

And I start crying uncontrollably. I mean, not just a little bit of tears. I'm sobbing. And I'm saying, Jerry, you're the greatest comedian that ever lived. You're the biggest influence in my life than I've ever had. I mean, I love you.

I just love you, Jerry. And he goes, well, thank you. And I go, I mean, every movie you've ever done. And you're still as great today as you ever were. And I just love the stuff you've done. I just love you, Jerry. I just love you. My mom and dad and I would go to your movies.

No one means more to me in the world. And Jerry goes, well, thank you. Because he just said, thank you, not who are you again. And Jerry walks away. And I'm standing there. I mean, it's not a little bit of moisture. in the eyes. It's full tears running down my cheeks and my glasses

with that sprinkle you get when you cry you know explosively, my glasses are covered and I'm watching him walk away. He walks over to tell her and I'm standing there dumbfounded and then suddenly reality rushes back

and I turn around and I look Stephen right in the eye and he looks at me and I realize he is looking at pure unadulterated evil. And I look at Belzer and they're looking like they have never seen

pure hypocrisy and pure lying hate. They just think we've just watched him trash this person mercilessly and now he's crying and hugging him. I have never seen such pure evil

up this close. And they're just looking at me and none of them says anything. and they're not even smiling because you know you can laugh at a certain level of hypocrisy but another level you know you're just it gets to Donald Trump you're just dumbfounded and I go

I didn't know I was going to react like that another brilliant brilliant comeback that's a real moment it was amazing it was amazing and then we went on talking and they said yeah we know

and they had all met him before and I said all of that that I said even when I was telling the story I can no longer feel it because I met him and then you know I've flown on a plane with them and when we were landing

he put the cup in his mouth and did all that and I have never felt more like I made it in show business than when Jerry Lewis looked me in the eye and said my name Harrison Ford

and I well I know it's like because I always do jokes, making fun of them. And when, any time I've met him, I'm five years old, sitting with my parents watching the nutty professor. I know. Yeah.

It's like I'm transported back in time. It's more than that to me. It's I'm begging my parents to take me to the movie again. Yes. Yes. Because, you know, my mom would not see a movie more than once. My mom had a book, you know. And my mother, if there was a movie on in 1971, on TV, an 11 o'clock movie or something,

and my dad was excited about watching it, she would go back to the book, and she would say, Sam, we saw this in 1948. And my dad would say, I remember nothing about it. My mother would say, me neither, but we've seen it. That's incredible. She kept a diary of all the films that she had seen. So do I. Wow. So do I.

Now, when I start to watch taxi driver again, I think of how horrified my mother would be. Oh, yeah. My mother, especially she got older, hated old things. She just wanted things that were new. And she hated antique. She hated all that stuff. And she hated reruns. And I remember when we were doing Sin City Spectacular, the Penn and Teller Show in the 90s, toward the end of my mom's life.

My mom died the first day of 2000. so this was like 90 I need to where I need Glenn 95 96 we were doing this and she we had been doing which is a big deal was Penn and Teller Sin City Spectacular

it was on FX Network it was a real show that we were producing and writing and starring in and we had done our 22 episodes and it was the first week of repeats and I call my mom the next day.

And I said to my mom, well, you know, our show was on last night. And she said, yeah, your father wanted to watch it, but we've seen it. So we watched Christopher Reeve doing Rear Window. Oh, that's so funny. And I said, but Mom, you saw a rear window. And she said, not with Christopher Reeve. And I like him. He's such a good-looking man.

I said, he's in a wheelchair. He broke his neck. And she said, well, we've seen Sin City. Unbelievable. That was the end. My dad would want to watch video of his son over and over again. My mother would be, he's wonderful, but we've seen that. Oh, here's something I wanted to ask you that's off the topic.

But I've never been able to speak to the dead, unfortunately. Of course you can speak to the dead. They just can't speak back. Yes. Try it now. Say something to Bella Lagosso. Now, can you show me how to speak to the dead? Sure.

Hey, Bella. That's all you're going to do. But what are some of the tricks to talking to the dead? When people go, well, there's many different levels. Yeah. Because one-on-one is very different than a group. I'll tell you a story of John Edward, and this is secondhand. A friend of mine, Jeff McBride, told me this story.

But he was playing in all of this, all the details are important. John Edward was doing the showroom in Atlantic City, so over 1,000 people, maybe well over, you know, a few thousand people. And he's going to do readings. So he comes out with a microphone, Jersey, okay? Atlantic City. And he says,

does Greece mean anything to someone in the audience? Does Greece mean anything in someone in the audience? And somebody raises their hand and says, my mother just passed away, and she loved that movie. And John Edward goes, No, I meant the country. Now, that shows he's not good at his job.

In a crowd, in a crowd of 2,000 people. who have all come. South Park covers this very well. You see the South Park's on Edward episode. They lay it out perfectly. I'm getting the sense of someone with an R in their name. 2,000 people, all of them grieving, there's an R there somewhere. But on one-on-one, and we both lost our parents, so you know,

if you believe this, you know, all the tricks, seem obvious if you don't believe but if you do believe and I've listened to the tapes the raw tapes when someone tells you he told my mother's name what her favorite hobby was everything else you then listen to the raw tape and the tape is remarkable because all the person wants to do the victim is talk about the person they loved so you say I get the sense of your mother has passed on and you go yeah she had cancer and she was only 63 years old when she died and my brother and I loved her and I see that your brother is also grieving I mean they really do say back what you've heard and um I did this experiment you can do what you can't do

because people know you but if you aren't known when you go into a conversation with someone. Say you're sitting on an airplane. I don't know why I look at you as unknown. You're a little known. But, you know. Yeah, I got the idea. Once in a while you're sitting on a plane, but someone has no idea who you are. And when you sit next to them, if you decide to engage in a conversation, and all of us fly enough that we probably don't.

We probably pull out a book and, you know, pull out our iPad and we don't interact with the person. I haven't flown in 12 years. Is that true? I get the idea. If you were to fly, many people, for whom flying is a special deal, are excited and we'll talk to the person next to them. There's an experiment you can try that I found that I used to do, you know, in the 70s and 80s when I was first really studying this stuff, when you go sitting next to a stranger,

if you look at what your mind is doing, your mind spends all this time trying to establish what you are going to say and what image you want to project to that person. person. If that person is a possible business for you, possible sex partner, possible flirting, possible friend, you're representing a different thing and how you want to be seen and how you're feeling that day. So as I'm talking right now in this very artificial environment of having microphones in front of us, you're constantly listening to every word and seeing if there's some hook you can get or some joke or somewhere you can go. But even in a less charged situation, you're still doing that.

I used to try this experiment of sitting next to somebody and saying, I'm going to try to do nothing but get all the information possible from them in a short a period of time as possible. So first we look at the shirt, you know, how your sleeves are rolled, how much the shirt costs, whether you're in first class, whether you're in coach, whether you're wearing any rings.

If you've got to watch, how much the glasses cost, how your hair is cut. Now, that's stuff that is all available instantly. And yet, if you're thinking about yourself, you don't really get all of it, you know? Your hand gestures, don't mean, you know, studying body language, and this means you're closed off, and this means you're open. I mean just the stuff that's meant to be told. You know, like you telling me, you're listening to me, and, you know, you get all that stuff. And then have them talk.

and in three questions that aren't even directly that question you can always tell if they're married or not what their income bracket is what they do for a living and if you just follow up on what in the sentence

they really are interested in you can find out in a hour flight everything about a person now we live in a culture and perhaps all cultures where the interaction people have is that way. Now, I've always said that talking to the dead and fortune-telling is a feminist issue,

and you can't get many feminists to agree with that. But most of the victims, the overwhelming majority of the victims, are women. And one of the reasons I believe is that we have a culture that doesn't listen to especially women who are attending to children and watching out for the family who don't have a career. So mostly the victims of this are just below lower middle class or middle class with enough money to be preyed upon but not enough money to be wealthy and who are maybe holding down a part-time job and taking care of children. They sit down in a room for an hour with someone who's just paying attention to them

and they just pour out their hearts. So the very, very sad answer, whenever someone tells me how does this fortune telling and talking to the dead work, the answer you want is you want some sort of clever tricks. And I have those answers.

But the real answer is one word and it's the saddest word possible, which is loneliness. Well, I heard with like con artists who want to get people to invest, and, you know, just take your money. Their easiest prey is old people. It's always old people.

They don't have friends. Their family doesn't talk to them. You know, well, when David Mammon, David Mamma is one of my favorite writers, but he writes these shows about scams. And it's always being run on young, vibrant people, and it's Steve Martin, it's all this, because that's where the storytelling is.

But the real cons are all elder abuse. Because they're lonely. Very long. You know, you know this horrible, horrible grandfather, grandmother scam, which is just, and it runs all the time, and it works perfectly, is you, simply by reading a newspaper or by surfing the web, you find someone who has a grandchild in their 20s, really not hard to find. And you find that grandparents' home phone number. and you call up cold call and you say hi granddad this is Bob oh okay and with bad hearing and with bad memory and a lot of grandchildren and you have the name they often don't make the voice and then you say I was traveling and I got robbed

and I can't get in touch with mom and I need $1,000 right now can you wire it to Western Union in Wyoming right now? And they say, I don't know how to wire money and you say, well, let me tell you how to do it. Here's what you do, take out your credit card, do this. Now, is that going to work? every time? No. The mother could be

dead. There could be a piece of information you don't know. But how long does that call make to fail before someone says, fuck off? Right? Five minutes, four minutes. So you can do 15 of these an hour. And you get one on the hook and you've got

$1,000. And it's just loneliness. And you know, and then the mother calls up a few days later or maybe sadly in our culture a week and a half later. And the The grandparents says, you know, Bob called, and he was in Wyoming. And the mother says, Bob has a law practice in New Jersey.

You know that. And you go, oh, yeah, I do. Well, he's visiting Wyoming. And he got, no, no, he wasn't, Mom. He wasn't in Wyoming. He's in his law practice. He's with his children. And takes a long time to unravel it.

And then you've got maybe a phone record with a phone number from a pay phone. and you've got a Western Union station in Wyoming with someone who came in and picked up a check and signed for it. And it's gone. And all of this stuff is based on, you know, the Jehovah Witnesses and those people, they come to the door, who's got time to talk to them? I mean, me, I answered the door naked and say,

come on in, let's have pie! But who has time to talk with them? And the answer is, you know, elderly. And, you know, the people in our society, And that's the thing, you read all these books about cons. And if you're in magic, you get really excited about poker cheats and gambling cheats and people that run these scams and how clever they are. And isn't this brilliant?

Isn't this wonderful? And then you start getting into the trenches and you realize these are people that come and try to run a scam on old people. And if the scam doesn't work, they punch them in the face, knock them down the stairs, and take all their silver. I mean, it's the only skill they really have is the skill of immorality. It's fascinating what you're saying about that, well, not to use the, that demographic of women, of middle-aged women, lonely women, falling prey to those kinds of psychics. Sure, the word feminist includes so many people that it's an unfair term to use.

But there are some people who are self-declared feminists that I've said to them, this is a feminist issue. you know if we have someone who is targeting women i mean it's it's it's it it certainly shouldn't be as high on your list as rape or taking back the night or date rape or safety but somewhere on the list that should be there and the answer i got in this particular case i'm not trying to make a general statement this particular case was no no but women are more in touch with their intuitive side they're more into fortune telling because they have a more sensitive side and i go