Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Ron Dante

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

GGACP celebrates the 55th anniversary of one of the most successful pop tunes of all time, the Archies' "Sugar, Sugar" (released May 24, 1969) by revisiting this 2017 interview with vocalist, record producer and Archies lead singer Ron Dante. In this episode, Ron joins Gilbert and Frank for an engaging conversation about the history of the legendary Brill Building, the birth of bubblegum music, the magic touch of Don Kirshner (and Barry Manilow) and the lost art of commercial jingles. Also, Ron mimics Donovan, Larry Fine throws in the towel, Paul Shaffer goes deep-sea fishing and Carole King’s babysitter tops the charts. PLUS: “Leader of the Laundromat”! The fabulous Toni Wine! The 1910 Fruitgum Company! “The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan”! And the return of “Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep”! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys Once is never good enough for something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. And our guest this week is a true renaissance man.

He's a singer, songwriter, musician, producer, voice artist, and even a former publisher of the Paris Review. Oh, a highbrower. You know his singing voice from dozens of popular television commercials, including spots for Coke, Dr. Pepper, Coppertone, KFC, Tang, Lifesavers, and McDonald's. Trust us, the Rolling Stones. sang lead vocals on two of the year's biggest records, Tracy by the Cufflings, and the number one song of that year, the Archie's Sugar Sugar. In his 50-year career,

he's worked with and alongside people like Bobby Darin, Johnny Mathis, Gene Pitney, Cher, Carole King, Ray Charles, John Denver, Pat Benatar, and our friend Paul Schaefer, and of course, Barry Manilow, producing a string of best-selling albums and 18 consecutive hit records, including the number one singles, Mandy, I Write the Songs, and Looks Like We Made It. You want more? He's also the Tony-winning producer of numerous Broadway plays like Ain't Misbehavin', Neil Simon's Little Me, and Children of a Lesser God. But like many great artists, his one unfulfilled career goal is to sing a duet with me, Gilbert Gottfried.

Even if he doesn't know it yet. Poor guy. Please welcome to the show a man of multiple talents, Staten Island's own Ron Dante. Well, hello there. I am exhausted. I should be so tired. I should go home and go to sleep for a while.

I can't believe I did any of that because I'm always looking ahead, so I don't very rarely look back. So this was like listening to that. I said, did I do that? You did. Did I do it? I think I did. You did, man.

I just took every opportunity that ever came around, Gilbert. When they said, can you, I said, yes. Can you sing? Yes. Can you dance? Can you act? Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

And then I learned how to do it after I said yes. And it was a rough road for a while, but I got it. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of yours. Oh for a while. But I got it. Yeah. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of yours. Oh, thank you. Oh, wow. I am. I'm a huge. I saw you when you were starting out in the village and some of the clubs in New York City.

I came to one of your earliest performances. And even then, I said, this fella's got something. He's really, really good. It was before your voice changed a bit. Wow, you were really young. I hit puberty. Wow, that's great. Well, he started when he was 15, Ron.

I don't know how far back you saw him. Well, you were pretty far along. You had your act really down pat. You were really funny. And the people were really roaring in this room. I saw it. It was a catch-a-rising star in one of those places. But it was great to see you then and you've gone on to do unbelievable

things. Oh thank you You're welcome Now tell us about your you came from Staten Island, you grew up there and what is your real name? Well I was born another name I was born Carmine Granito

Paisano Or as I like to call him a fucking guinea Well, I was born another name. I was born Carmine Granito. Paisano. Yeah, Paisano. Or as I like to call him, a fucking guinea. He works with two Italians and abuses us every week, Ron. I don't mind. I know where you're coming from. My both parents were Napoletano.

My dad sang a little bit. I grew up in Staten Island. It's like 80% Italian, so you're very safe on Staten Island, unless you do something wrong, like bet the wrong bet. But I grew up there and I was lucky to, you know, I, that was my name, but I decided to change it when I was about 14, because all the singers I idolized, uh, uh, you know, um, Bobby Darin, uh, Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, everybody was changing their names. They would get stage names. So I figured, well, I'll choose a name. So I was a big fan of Spencer Tracy in the movies.

And he had a movie called Dante's Inferno, I think. Oh, wow. And that's where I said, I love that name. It's got color. I can use red on my guitar. So I chose that name as my stage name. And I idolized one of the best guitarists in Staten Island. His name was Ronnie Anderson.

And I said, I think I'll call myself Ronnie. So at the beginning of my career, I was Ronnie, you know, until I changed my name when I was about 20 to Ron. Well, tell us how you got into music in the first place, because it's interesting, because it involved a childhood accident. Yeah, I was a very active kid, but I was a klutz. So I was always, like, breaking bones. was a klutz. So I was always like breaking bones. I broke my arm.

I broke my leg. I got an arrow stuck in my head once, all before I was 14. And I busted my arm, and the doctor said, you know, you busted the growing bone in your wrist, and if you don't exercise, it'll be stiff the rest of your life.

So he said, you either squeeze a ball or maybe take up an instrument. So I was a huge Elvis fan. I'd seen all his movies and, you know, Heartbreaker, all the stuff that he had done. And my dad said, well, get you a little guitar. You know, you play guitar, you move your wrist every day.

And that's what started my singing and my songwriting. You know, isn't that cool? This, and when I heard that story, you have something in common with Larry from the Three Stooges. I can't wait to hear this. Larry from the Three Stooges, I think his father was like a jeweler or something. And they used some sort of acid to test if something was real gold. And Larry accidentally burned his arm really badly. And the doctor told him, well, he said, you got to exercise that if you want your arm back.

And first he suggested price fighting. And Larry from the Three Stooges won the price fight, but his parents were against it. So then the doctor said, well, why don't you take up the violin? That's why he took up the violin. Yeah. Wow. And Larry became an excellent violinist and he played in about two of the Stooges movies. I just love that this accident led to his career. Yes! Yes! It's not an accident, though. It's kind of meant in people's lives that they're going on the wrong road.

All of a sudden, you know, you get something happens and you're on your right road again. You know, that's what happened to him. It happened to me. I don't know what I was going to do. I got into my dad's schmata business. He made car coats for kids. He told me, he said, if you don't sing, I'm going to bring you to the factory

and let you watch over the little old ladies putting the coats together. It just happened. I hurt my arm and that was the beginning. Did you get into music? Were you 15 when you formed? You put the band together? Was it the Persuaders? Do I have the timing of this right? You were 15. Gilbert was 15 when he started the show. You guys have that in common. We were early starters, right? Yes. You knew early where you wanted to go. So did I. There was no doubt.

I remember when I was 14, I played a New Year's Eve party and I sang and the fellow gave me 75 bucks cash. And my dad was making 45 bucks cash a week. So I said, this is the business I need to be. Very smart. There's no doubt about it. There's the business. I love it. You know, if I can make 75 bucks on every Saturday night, I'm made.

You know, I was a kid. And that kind of pointed me in the right direction also. You know, I was a kid. And that kind of pointed me in the right direction also. And you spent a lot of your career in the Brill Building. So could you give our audience a brief history of why the Brill Building is so magical? Well, it was the hub of the music business. Right there on like 48th Street, 49 49th street and broadway in the middle of everything this building with mr brill's uh statue on the top of the entrance i just walked by it 10

minutes ago right right it had figure out who's in there music publishers uh managers a recording studio uh record companies, you name it, shysters from all over the world. Great people were in that building, and I remember Paul Simon once saying to me, when he was hawking his songs, he said, you go to the top floor and you walk down, because it's much easier to walk down and stop in all the publishers and all the managers' offices than walking up.

You won't be able to sing too well. So that's why the Brill Building was so magical. Bobby Darin had his offices in there, of course. Tons of record companies and managers and a lot of music publishers, which was the easiest access into the music business. So that's why people went to the Brill. But there were people, the hallway downstairs was like an echo chamber. And once in a while, you'd hear a group just plop themselves in the hallway and start to sing their songs or something famous like Blue Moon or one of these oldies.

And that's why, and you could go to the little coffee shop. There was a Greek coffee shop adjacent right in the building. And if you're having coffee, you never know who you're going to sit next to. You might sit next to somebody really famous that can help you out so everybody went to that place and across the street was another building called 1650 which is directly across the street and that housed the other music publishers and the other managers so you'd spend your days walking between the buildings until somebody stopped and listened to you, you know. And who are some of the just struggling music writers who we know today? Well, Carole King was there.

Neil Sedaka was in those buildings. Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil were just starting out. These people, they wrote the biggest hit of all time. They lost that love and feeling and 30 other hits. There were people all over there. The singer-songwriters were abundant. Neil Diamond was walking back and forth between buildings. I actually sang on some of his early demos.

It was amazing. The first time I walked into a music publishing company that signed me was Don Kirshner's music company that Paul Schaefer talks about a lot. But I was there 10 years before when he had his own publishing company just starting out in that area. And when I walked in the office, I met Tony Orlando the first day. Neil Sedaka was in a leather coat sitting at a piano writing. Carole King was over here writing in another cubicle. There were all kinds of cubicles. So it was an amazing time uh you can't get in any place anymore they'll arrest you if you walk in with your guitar they think you're gonna blow the place up then everybody was open to you you could

get in did you go door to door because tony was on the show with us and he told us that the same thing that i've heard you say you just you knock on the door some of them would would let you in some of them would throw you out yeah was that the process that was the process you know and a lot of music publishers if they see you walk in you know you don't look like you're gonna you know just hold them up they uh you have a guitar with you they'll listen and and the quality of your song sells you or the or the quality of your voice and uh it was it was easy access and i remember a lot of my friends got in that way and uh look at look at what came out of it the songs still last of course i mean we listen to them every day and you were the lead singer of the archies yes and and you you wouldn't

use your name and that was i was supposed to be anonymous anonymous. It was based on the cartoon comic that was out since 1942 or something with Archie and the gang. And it was a TV series that Don Kirshner was doing the music supervision of. And I heard about it and I said, I got to call Donnie. I know him. He's my old publisher from five, six years ago.

And I said, I'd like to come up and audition for The Voice. He said, no problem. Come on up. I went up to the studio. They listened to me. They said, oh, you're the guy. And I got the job'd like to come up and audition for The Voice. He said, no problem. Come on up. I went up to the studio. They listened to me. They said, oh, you're the guy. And I got the job as the lead voice of The Archies. And we did a TV series for four years on CBS. It was all cartoons.

In fact, when the record went number one, I said, oh, great, great. Maybe you'll know my name. No, nobody knew my name. Ed Sullivan played the cartoon. He said, now, right here, right here, the Archies. And my mom called me and said, you're on. I said, I'm not quite on. My voice is on.

Go ahead, Gil. No, I was going to say, I like, I'm sure a lot of guys when the Archies was on, jerked off about Betty and Veronica. jerked off about Betty and Veronica. Now, so what was very upsetting to me, considering all the times I've jerked off to them, is that the singing voice of Betty and Veronica I heard was you. No, no, no, no. I just did a falsetto.

Don't get crazy on me. This used to go south really quickly. Fourteen minutes in, Ron. Yeah, here we go. No, no. I just sang one record where I sang falsetto. It was called Jingle Jangle. It was a follow-up to Sugar Sugar.

And the real girl voice, Tony Wine. Great Tony Wine. Great Tony Wine singer. She wrote Groovy Kind of Love and Candida. She's a terrific writer. She's a terrific, right? She's on the Tony Orlando tour now with them. Anyway, Tony wine was the female voice of both girls.

And, but they placed the key. It didn't sound right. So they asked me to sing falsetto on it. That was the only thing. So you don't have to worry about better. Gil, I can continue jerking off to the old cartoons.

The girls were so beautiful in the comic books, weren't they? Oh, gorgeous girls. They're so beautiful in the comic books, weren't they? Oh, my God. I bet you Veronica. They were gorgeous girls. They were so beautiful. Do you know, they actually had the same face.

It's just different hair. Oh, wow. That's interesting. I never thought of that. That's interesting. Take a look at it. It's the same face they drew. But I still always liked Veronica. I thought she was the sexier one.

But Mr. Weatherby didn't do it for you? Or Mrs. Grundy. Yeah. If you're getting off to Mrs. didn't do it for you? Or Mrs. Grundy. Yeah. If you're getting off to Mrs. Grundy, you're in trouble. Mrs. Grundy. I love that. Well, before Kirshner.

Wait, wait. Go ahead. Can you sing the falsetto part of that song for us, please? Sure, sure. It was like. Ever since I met you, I couldn't want you better. I couldn't love you stronger if I tried. That's my fake voice.

It's my true heart I'm showing. Oh, my nose would be growing. You know that it gets longer if I lie. And then I go singing. I kind of felt like, you know, this is a little lightweight for a guy. You know, especially Italian guy from Staten Island singing like my Aunt Minnie. And if anybody knows about it, I'm going to get hassled at the gas station when I go to get gas and when I go down to the local social club. So I kept that under wraps, you know, because you want to be, you know, kind of masculine.

And I was whacking it as you were singing now. Kind of masculine. And I was whacking it as you were speaking now. As long as you don't do it now, because I can see you now. Yeah, we should tell our listeners we're looking at Ron over video, and he's in Airwolf Studios in L.A., and he can see us, so Gilbert can't get away with anything. I said Gilbert's starting to take his shirt off.

Well, you know, speaking of doing voices and the versatility, your versatility, you were doing, if I have this right, when you went in to do Sugar Sugar, you tried different sounds and you finally settled on Donovan? Yes, I figured on Sugar Sugar especially, it was a really cool song. It was simple, but I figured Jeff Barry and Andy Kim, who wrote it, they were hit makers. Those guys had had hits already. I knew they had a chance. So I thought about the melody, and as I was starting to do my vocals, I was trying to imagine who would be singing this, what kind of a sound I could get it. And I wanted a breathy sound. So I was thinking of, they call it mellow yellow. Right, right.

His mellow yellow song. And I went, sugar, honey, honey. And it came out my own sound. But in my head, I was doing Donovan Leach. I was doing his voice. And it kind of worked. Sometimes when I was doing commercials years ago, I would think, oh, who would do this? Elvis?

Because you have to make up voices for commercials. You know. But that's who I was channeling that day. And I finally get to meet Donovan, and he was a terrible guy. So I didn't want to. Oh, my God. Oh, tell us. He was very mean.

Very mean to me. Very cold. Oh, I'll sign your autograph. That's $40. I said, get out of here. Wow. Wow. Oh, I love that.

He wants the dirt. All he wants is the dirt run. I love your dirt. When do we get into the movie section of it? Okay. We'll be back to the show after these important messages. Gil and Frank went out to pee. Now they're back so they can be on their amazing colossal podcast.

Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal podcast. So let's go. Let's go back to Kirshner for a minute because before, years before Sugar Sugar happened, you're making the rounds of the Brill Building and meeting Kirshner was an early turning point. It was the biggest turning point. I mean, he was the biggest guy in the music business at the time. He was on the cover of Billboard and Magazine and, of course, you know, Cashbox and Record World. There was a picture.

The day I walked into his office, there was a Billboard and a Cashbox in the, you know, the entry room. And there was a picture of him on a locomotive with Little Eva and Carole King. They just had this number one song, Locomotion. So he was the hottest guy in music. There was no, no bigger publisher independent. I mean, he published like 30 hits that year and, uh, and boy, he knew how to promote. So I was really honored when I got to meet him. And of course his songwriters heard me sing and then they took me into his office and he had a white piano with drinks inside one pocket and jelly beans in the other pocket. You know, he was a sugar addict. He loved sugar. And he listened to me sing and he said, kid, I'm going to give you a publishing job. You'll be the demo maker. I'm going to pay you 50 bucks a

week. And I turned it down. I said, I want 55. I was negotiating at 17. at 17 i said no i got my dad's out of work i got to get an extra five a week so he said no problem kid you know and that was but he changed my life don curse he was a good guy he helped a lot of songwriters before they became stars he gave them their jobs and paid the money each week the hit maker and and And is it true that around the time when the Monkees were at their angriest, wanting to get out of their contract, Kirshner offered them Sugar Sugar? a song with sugar in the title or something. But I've contacted the writers of Sugar Sugar, both Andy Kim and Jeff Barry, and they both said they wrote it directly for the monkeys,

the Archies. And so I think that got a little convoluted. I hope they turned it down because it became a six million seller that year. Six million sellers. That's the number one record of the year. It was unbelievable, The power of it

worldwide. People didn't even know what I was singing about. They just heard Sugar Sugar and they liked it in every country. So the Monkees, you know, they had a problem with Donnie because he gave them too many hits. That's basically what it is. He gave them hit after hit after hit. They said, no, we don't want that anymore. We want

our own songs. And that was the end of the monkeys. I'm sorry to say I love Mickey Dolenz. You've said history would prove them wrong, and I think it has. You never can tell. You know, it's just they would, you know, don't bite the hand that feeds you. They insulted the hand that fed them at the time. And it was a bad move, I thought.

But Mickey Dolenz and Davy Jones are great guys. Great guys in general. I see them all the time. And it was a bad move, I thought. But Mickey Dolenz and Davy Jones are great guys. Great guys in general. I see them all the time. I heard Don Kirshner, in an interview, he was talking about how the monkeys wanted control. And Don Kirshner's line was, you don't let the passengers fly the plane. It's interesting.

It's very close. Very close. Because they were all cast as actors They were actors who were cast to be in a TV group They didn't begin in the bars and on the road They went from obscurity to super fame I think

it just got them crazy because they figured maybe we can write the hits It depends They should be in the Rocker Hall of Fame, in my opinion. I like the Monkees. I think their hits were big enough. There should be a separate section in the Rocker Hall

of Fame for those guys. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you're still in touch with... We had Mickey on the show. Yeah, I see Mickey. I see he's on tour this year with Mark Lindsay. They're calling it the Summers of 67. Summers of Love. Summers of Love.

Yeah, great guy. We loved Mickey. We had Mike here, too. We had Nesmith, too. Both were great guests. Yeah. Well, they remember things. They were there, and they remember.

I have a lot of friends. You probably have friends that don't remember what happened. Gilbert doesn't remember lunch. No. What? I'm forgetting this interview right now. So I want to go back, Ron. You're in the Brill Building.

You're doing demos for people like Connie Francis and Sadaka. And were you recording your own stuff at this time? Were you encouraged to record your own stuff? Not encouraged as much. I did a lot of demos for those writers. They had songs that weren't hits sometimes. And each time the demo sounded really good, I would say to Mr. Kirshner,

can we get a record company to put this out? He said, no, no, we're showing it to the Animals. We're showing it to Herman's Hermits or Gary Lewis and the Playboys, and they would record it. So I wasn't being prompted to record yet. But a few years in, I started to get offers from people to record. And you mentioned Little Eva before.

Now, is that true that Little Eva was Carole King's, like, maid or babysitter? That's absolutely true. I never babysitter. That's absolutely true. I never knew that. That's great. Yeah. How'd you come up with that, Gil? She... He surprises me every now and then, Ron.

Yeah, Little Eva, I think they were talking, and she was her maid or babysitter, and she said she wants to be a singer. And I think Carol King wrote a locomotive for her. Locomotion. Yeah, locomotion. That's cool. I did not know that.

Yeah, and you're right. And she sounded great on it, Little Eva. She did. She did. She doubled her voice. They did multi-track on it, so it was thick. And you do that when you want it to be a stronger sound vocally and that's what i think that's what they did with her it was a big hit it's been recorded

what two or three times the same grand funk grand funk yeah sure right sure gilbert we should we should record it someday you and i hey hey you want to know something? Frank Ferdarosa. Well, Frank will find the lyrics. Find the lyrics. We are going to sing it tonight. We'll sing the locomotion. But I talked to our mutual friend, Paul Schaefer, Ron. I told him you were coming on. I said, do you have any questions for Ron?

He wanted to know about the detergents. Oh, you'll appreciate this. He wanted to know about the detergents. Oh, you'll appreciate this. My first hit after Mr. Big Singer having a group and playing CYO centers, I get my first hit record. It's called Leader of the Laundromat. It was based on a parody of Leader of the Pack by the Shangri-Las. It's all about a motorcycle love affair that goes wrong and he gets killed. So my friend's uncle wrote a song called Leader of the Laundromat,

which was a hysterical thing, but it's talk and it's singing. It's like, my girl was always putting me down. My laundry came back brown. You know, it's an amazing song, and we actually had a hit with it on Roulette Records. You did. So between you and me, Roulette Records was owned by the mom. Oh, I was going to ask you about that, Morris Levy. Yes, and we met with him, and he said, you kids are not going to get any money on this record.

It sold about 900,000 copies as a novelty record in 1965, right? We didn't see a penny. We went to him, he said, listen kid, I'll show you the books, but we keep two sets anyway. So go out on the road, go out on the road, make some money, and we went on the road with Dick Clark's Caravan of Stars, and we, the Shangri-Las would sing Leader of the Pack,

and then they would introduce us. And me and my buddies would come out and do Leader of the Laundromat. And they would throw records at us. I mean, we almost had a promotion where we gave out albums. And I remember halfway through the song, I saw it coming through the lights. They're like these shiny objects being thrown at me. The albums were being thrown back on the stage.

Wow. It was one of those things. But it was great. The detergents were funny. We did Soupy Sales. We were on the Soupy Sales show singing it live. Yep. We did Hullabaloo and Shindig and a whole bunch of things.

The Soupy Sales show was great to do. And tell us about that record label because we both heard stories. Well, yeah, Tommy James is really the guy to talk about that, about the roulette. But the stories are infamous. Well, if you read Tommy's book, I had no idea what was going on in that office. I understand how much money was being paid

to radio stations and jukebox owners to play records, and then they would never pay the hours. Tommy never got a royalty check, he said, right? He said he'd have to go up there and say, my uncle needs an operation, and Morris Levy would give him like five grand or ten grand.

That was it. So, yeah, it was an interesting thing. The record producer that produced our record wanted royalties, and he had a physical fight with Morris Levy. I don't know how he survived because Morris was a big guy. He was like the bouncer. He was the bouncer. Hey, kid, you know, he was a tough guy. And in the movie, they portray him as a big guy. He was like the bouncer. He was the bouncer. Hey, kid, you know.

He was a tough guy. And in the movie, they portray him as a smaller man. He was a big six-foot-one, six-foot-two stocker. A stocker. He was the guy you didn't want to mess with. An Italian guy speaking Yiddish. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Well, but before you were the detergents, you were a surf group called the Cabin Crew.

Yeah, that was a Don Kirshner genius idea. He said, we need an East Coast Beach Boys. So my friends who were in the detergents with me, he said, go write about a dozen surf songs. East Coast cabin songs about a boat. I said, we got to write about boats? So we wrote some songs about a boat, right? I said, we got to write about boats? You know, so we wrote some songs about boats. We took some pictures, nautical pictures, and then

that fizzled, but we used the nautical pictures for the detergents. So the first detergent thing, we got caps on and we were behind a railing on a ship. Nobody noticed that. Nobody cared about it, but that was a curse and a brainstorm. And if the detergents didn't happen, maybe the cabin kids would have happened because he knew how to promote.

He was the PT Barnum of music. I mean, he, when we, we released the Archie's album, do you know what he rented? He rented Madison square garden for a publicity basketball game. And I was the center and I'm not the biggest guy in the world.

We played against the Harlem globe trotters. And they beat our ass. Wow. What's the, I like Leader of the Laundromat. It's a fun novelty song. What's the history behind Who's That Banging on the Piano? It was just because in the Shangri-La's record, there's a lot of bong. Oh, it's part of the parody.

It's bong. It's part of the parody. So we said, well, who's banging on the piano? Because the Shangri-Las have just this big piano chord hitting all through it. It was a great record, actually, Shangri-Las. Paul Vance, who's still with us. I felt so messy standing there. Messy standing there.

Messy standing there. My daddy's shorts were everywhere. Daddy's shorts were everywhere. Tenderly I kissed her goodbye. Picked up my clothes, they were finally dry. But I won't forget your love, oh leader of the laundromat Is that banging on the piano? I don't know. It's so funny how things come around.

The writers of Leader of the Pack was one Jeff Barry. Sure. So Jeff went on to write Sugar Sugar five years later, four years later. But at the time, they had every right to sue. And they got the publishing on it. The writers of the original song deservedly got their money. later, but at the time, they had every right to sue, and they got the publishing on it. The writers of the original song deservedly got their money. Wow.

Wow. It's just funny how careers go, and then Barry winds up playing a pivotal role in your career. Big role. If he wasn't involved in the Archies, who knew it would have happened? With Sugar Sugar. Now, did Joey Levine also audition, the writer, the singer of Chewy Chewy and Yummy, Yummy, Yummy? Did he audition to be Archie as well?

That's what I heard. Joey and I are very good friends, old friends. We used to write together and do commercials together. He became a huge commercial producer and writer. But, yeah, Joey, I was, they were thinking about Joey for the lead voice of the Archies, but I struck a better deal. I love it.

And you were saying about that singer, Tony James, I think it is. Wine. Tony Wine. Tony Wine, yeah. Tony Wine, that on the record, people were saying, who's that black girl singing on it?

That's right. Oh, the I'm Gonna Make Your Life So Sweet part. Yeah, she did both parts. She did I'm Gonna Make Your Life So Sweet, and then she did the high part. And I would get people to stop me on the street and say, I love your new record. It's great. Who's those sisters singing? Because they have lots of soul.

And then I realized, Tony's, you know, she's a great soul singer. She's one of those street singer type voices like Ronnie of the Ronettes. She has that same kind of edge. You always know her voice. And she was great. Thank God for her on the records. She had it so much. She was at Joe McGinty's place last year.

Tony Wine, singing live. I got to see her. Oh, wow. It was a treat. She did Candida. And she did Groovy Kind of Love. Groovy Kind of Love. And Wine, singing live. I got to see her. Oh, wow. It was a treat. She did Candida and she did Groovy Kind of Love. Groovy Kind of Love. She was like a Jewish girl

from Brooklyn or something. Yes, that's right. And everybody thought she was a sister. And Ray Stevens is in there too doing hand claps. Is that true?

Yeah, he came to visit the session that day with Tony. She was good friends with him. And he said, can I do something on this record? He said, sure, sure, sure, right? And so he said, sure, everybody hand claps. Come on out. And that was the big

sound in those records were hand claps. In fact, every Jeff Barry record has hand claps. It's the sound. It's his lucky thing. He puts his hand on everything. I love it. Did you know, I mean, you had an ear for hits as well. I mean, did you know when you came out of the booth or when you heard the mix, did you say,

I know you said these guys are hit makers, so this has a chance, but did you have any inkling that this thing was going to be such a monster? You know, I would love to say yes. I knew immediately. I am a hit maker, and I knew a hit. I didn't know that night. I did a really nice vocal. I worked extra hard on it. I doubled it

and I added harmony to it. It was among another 30 songs during those weeks. I wasn't sure about it. I had heard that when it came out, the DJs were hesitant to play it. Some DJ, a promotion man for RCA and Kirshner up in San Francisco, took the when it came out, the DJs were hesitant to play it. So some DJ

a promotion man for RCA in San Francisco took the label off and took it to a DJ and said, just play this as a ghost group, as a group you don't know who it is and see the reaction. And it got, the phones lit up I heard and everybody said, well now

who is it? And they said, it's the Archies again. Because we had had a couple of singles out before that. So, yeah, but I didn't know that night. I wish I had. But Jeff Barry and his mixes, he did like an incredible board mix, just the way he did on I'm a Believer for the Monkees. He hired almost similar musicians on both records. Boy, that song endures, Ron.

And you worked with Bobby Darin. And the thing I always worked with Bobby Darin. And the thing I always heard about Bobby Darin was like, I think it was like every guy in his family died at a young age. So he was always haunted by that. Like he had to make it because he knew he wouldn't live that long. You're absolutely right. I mean, he was accelerated in his career. He couldn't get there fast enough.

And he actually worked with Don Kirshner early on and split off and had Split Splash was his first hit record. And he actually, he remembered Don, he had helped him. So he gave Don Kirshner a little piece of the publishing on that. And when I met him, he had his own publishing company. A very smart guy. He had gone into publishing, and I was hired as a songwriter at his publishing company. He would come in every month

and take a listen to some of our songs and give us tickets to one of his shows. I actually got to see Bobby Darren at the Copacabana. I had never seen a live show like that in my life. He was a magnificent performer. Unbelievable. Magnetic.

And he had two different personalities, though. One was he was a hippie in sneakers and jeans, and the next time he'd come in with a short hair and a suit and a tie, and he was Mr. Businessman. So you never knew who you were going to get when you worked for him. But he knew he was going to die young. He did. So that's why he went right into films.

He got Sandra Dee. Sure. He moved his career along way quicker than some of the pop artists of the day. I mean, he went from Splish Splash to Mack the Knife. Think about those two songs. They're like totally different. You know, one is a Frank Sinatra hit. And the other is, you know, type of thing.

And Splish Splash is just a pop song. So he was very smart. He's smart. He went to Hollywood, got his movie career going. And I heard the story that he thought his sister was his sister. His sister revealed to him that she was really his mother. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tragedy.

It's a tragic story. And that his mother was actually his grandmother. Amazing story, isn't it? Something similar happened to Jack Nicholson. Yes, I was just going to say that. Jack Nicholson, same exact thing happened to him. See, those are times when, you know, people were ashamed of things and stuff.

Boy, has it changed now. You know, now nobody would care you know two more cool things about sugar sugar before we we move past it i love this and doing the research and i want to thank laura pinto to our mutual friend who was incredible and helping with with research she knows absolutely everything about you and she's a fan of this podcast and when she we told her you were coming on she got very excited and sent me a lot of wonderful stuff. But Andy Kim didn't have a guitar pick, and he played with what during Sugar Sugar's recording? The sound on Sugar Sugar is a matchbook instead of a pick. So it's flap, flap, flap on the guitar.

But it's really cool because it adds rhythm to the guitar sound. And I don't think it's ever happened before. I kept thinking he's going to set myself on fire any minute that that matchbook's going to go up, and we're going to have a story for the ages. Oh yeah, Andy Kim burned himself up playing Sugar Sugar on the original, but it didn't happen. Andy Kim, who later had a big hit with Rock Me

Gently in the 70s. Yeah. Absolutely, number one. The other cool thing about Sugar Sugar, and I hope this is true, I found this, I I hope this is true, I found this. I hope that this is factual. The most produced recording in history because Post Cereal put a cardboard version of it on the back of Super Sugar Crisp boxes. Did you know that?

Yes. At the time, it was on every grocery shelf. They mass produced it. Yes, at the time it was on every grocery shelf. They mass produced it. You could actually cut the cardboard out from the back of the cereal box and play it like 20 times before it disintegrated. But they are still around, those things, on eBay. People have kept them over the years.

Oh, really? Yeah, they have two of my – I have a bunch of them. I remember Mad Magazine used to have those records you could tear out. Right. And they would destroy the needle on your turntable. Oh, of course. Horrible. Who were some of the other groups, Ron, this is fun, that you ghosted for?

Well, a lot of them were not successful. Right. But there were a lot of fun names. One was called the $2 question. I love that. Noah's Azark. That was on Roulette too, right? Yes.

Noah's Ark. Noah's Azark. It was about Ronnie. I recorded under Ronnie and the Dirt Riders, Bo Cooper. I kept changing my name. I thought there were people after me. I must have done 20 different ghost groups, right? And three or four of them did

pretty well. But you always got a shot. They put out a single. If the single succeeded, they'd do a whole album. So I just kept recording. As I said in the beginning, I just kept saying yes. At a time when everybody's tied to contracts and they can't record for another label,

I just kept changing my name. So people didn't know who to contracts and they can't record for another label, I just kept changing my name. So people didn't know who it was and they didn't care. You know, and a lot of songwriters, I did their demos. They put the demos out as groups. Right. Pearly Gate, California Gold Rush, Ronnie and the Dirt Riders. You did a song we've talked about on this show is Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep. writers. You did a song we've talked about on this show is Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep.

We do these episodes midweek, Ron, and we don't have a guest like yourself. We do these mini episodes and we'll talk about one hit wonders and just oddball songs or bands or artists who charted once and Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep came up and you did a cover of it. I did a cover of it. It was a really silly song, but it was really funny. I never knew what the hell it meant. Can we hear it, please? Some of it. It starts off with a big beat. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I come in.

Where's your mama gone? Little baby Don. Little baby Don. Where's your mama gone? Where's your mama gone? Little baby Don. far, far away. Last night I met my baby singing a song. Ooh-wee, chirpy, chirpy, cheap, cheap.

It's like, I don't know what it meant. But it was a hidden England. They asked me to record in America. Yes, no problem. And that was it. And it came out. It was a fun record. America. Yes, no problem. And that was it. And it came out. It was a fun record. I never knew what it meant.

It's so funny because my next question was going to be what is chirpy, chirpy cheese. What the hell? I don't know. It has no meaning. People, all kinds of crazy stuff. I miss that era, Ron. I miss, I used to buy those records. The 1910 Fruit Gum Company on Buddha Records, man. I used to buy all that stuff. I miss that era, Ron. I used to buy those records at the 1910 Fruit Gum Company on

Buddha Records, man. I used to buy all that stuff. I just worked with them last weekend. You did? Are those guys around, Simple Simon says? One, two, three, red light. Red light, sure. All those kiddies. It's so funny. The guys are all grown up now, right? And they're kind of gray and they're up on stage and they're

singing and they're going, alright, everybody in the audience stand up! And half the audience can't stand up. But they're up on stage and they're singing and they're going, all right, everybody in the audience, stand up. And half the audience can't stand up. But they're standing up, putting their, put your nose on, face on, finger on the nose, put your hands up in the air. And the people are going, I can't find my hands. You know, it was a very strange concept. But they're very musical, these guys.

You'd love them. They're great friends. I hope to meet them. You remember that song, Simple Simon Says? Put your hands in the air. Simple Simon Says. Put them down by your side. Simple Simon Says. Oh, man. And you'll never be

out. There's an organ in there. Or a farfisa or something. Boy, that is good stuff. Tell us about, and speaking of hit records, tell us about how the Tell us about, and speaking of hit records, tell us about how The Cufflinks and Tracy

came about. Cufflinks were... Paul Vance again. This fellow, yeah, Paul. Anyway, he's the uncle of a friend of mine.

Sorry to bring him up. No, that's quite right. The guy I used to write with named Danny, that's his uncle. Right, Danny Vance from The Detergents. Right, and he introduced me to Paul, and Paul would call me over the years to do a demo

or two of his songs, and this time he called me into, after Sugar Sugar had just come out and Big Hitty called me up and said, would you like to do this song Tracy for us? And so I, yeah, I did a vocal on it. I did like multi-track my voices three or four times. I added another background group of my own. I kept singing until they stopped me. And it sounded like the association of one of the, you know, grassroots. And it came out and it was a big hit.

And it was in the top ten at the same time. Sugar Sugar was in the top ten. So I had two records in the top ten at one point, one in nine. And people still didn't know my name, but it was cool. You know, it was just a great kick to have your voice on the radio at the time. Right. I've heard you say even though you were anonymous, you knew that having two top ten hits was going to lead to big things. Well, it had to.

I mean, the voice, people were getting used to my voice. They liked it. The songs were good. It kicked off my jingle career big time. People on Madison Avenue, you know, they weren't able to hire somebody who has hit records on the radio this week. So they were starting to call. And they would say, do you want to sing for Budweiser? Do you want to sing for American Airlines?

I said, again, yes, no problem. I'm there. What time? Eight in the morning? I'm there. And so that's what led me to it. So it was a great kick to have it. And for a singer to hear your voice on the radio it's a great kick you know it's like

watching a video of your own concert you go wow i did that you know jc you're gonna be happy with me i'll build a world around you to whiz love every way and when you're there you'll be so glad I found you come with me don't say no hold

me close Tracy never never ever let me go She never, never, ever let me go. I do love that song, too. Let's talk about, too, the commercials since you bring them up. And Gilbert was very impressed when I came into the studio tonight and I was telling him how many commercials you did

and how many are kind of iconic. Yes. Can you sing a couple of the jingles you remember? He does it in his act. You do it in a live show, don't you, Ron? You do a little commercial medley? Yeah. Let's see. You deserve a break today

so get up and get away to McDonald's. Thank you very much. Wow. He still hits the notes. Wow. And I like one. Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.

I'm in Joy's Got Nuts. Mounds don't. Something like that. That was a really cool one. I drink Dr. Pepper and I'm proud. I used to get lost in a crowd. But now you look around these days. Seems to be a Dr. Pepper craze.

Boom, boom, boom. I'm a pepper. You're a pepper. He's a pepper. She's a pepper. Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? Be a pepper. Drink Dr. Pepper. She's a pepper. Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? Be a pepper. Drink Dr. Pepper.

All right. That's fantastic. Wow. Is that your voice in the famous Dr. Pepper commercials where David Naughton is jumping around? No. I did all the radio spots. You did the radio spots. And some of the TV spots.

But David sang and danced in that spot. He was just great. Yeah, he was just great. I don't like to take credit for David's stuff. Sure. Sure, I was mistaken. So many commercials. He was just great. He was just great. I don't like to take credit for dance stuff. Sure. I was mistaken. So many commercials. There was Lifesavers. There was KFC. And didn't Barry wind up writing some of those

jingles? There's some symmetry there, too. Yes. I met Barry when we were doing a commercial. He had written like a good neighbor State Farm is there. He wrote one of those and Band-Aid commercials, different things. And he was just getting started in the jingle business. But yes, Barry sang on a bunch of commercials.

In fact, when I produced him early on in his career, he said, you know, I've only got one hit when I go out to play shows. What should I do? I said, sing some commercials. Oh, that was your idea. Of course. I gave him the idea. I said, if you put this in the act, it's like six hit records if you do these different commercials. And it worked.

People were singing along. He had a bubble maker on stage, was making bubbles as he sang like Lawrence Welk. And the people went crazy over it. I was telling Ron before we turned on the mics that I saw Barry Manilow years ago at Forest Hills Tennis Stadium. And he not only did the commercial medley, but he took out the accordion. Oh, yeah. And he did the accordion. Yeah.

Yeah. That was his source, the accordion. Before he played piano, he played accordion a lot. Yeah. He played Lady of Spain. He finished. The crowd gave him a standing ovation. Then he said, would Billy Joel do this?

He's got such a great sense of humor. I'm looking at some. Yeah. Go ahead. His sense of humor was a saving grace because with all his romantic songs and those love songs and stuff, his live show, it shows what a nice guy he is. You know, he likes his fans, and he loves performing. Yeah. You ever meet Barry Manilow, Gilbert?

Oh, yes. He's a very nice guy. As a matter of fact, we sort of worked together. Uh-oh. Even though we didn't run. In what context? There was a cartoon made by Don Bluth. Is this The Pebble and the Penguin?

No. No. Because I know he did that one. Thumbelina. Oh. Thumbelina. Thumbelina. Thumbelina.

Oh. Thumbelina. I was Berkeley or Barkley Beetle. And he did the music for it. And that was our connection. Yeah. He loves to do those kind of things. Sure.

I thought you might have opened for him at once. Because at one point in his career, all the comics, Joan Rivers, everybody, David Steinberg, everybody was opening for Barry. He didn't want a singer. He said, I don't want a singer in front of me. I want to be the only singer on the bill. But I love comics. So all the comics would open for him at times. I thought you might have done that at one point.

You would have been great to do your act before him. It would have been a great combination. That would blow my mind to go see you open for Barry Manilow. Come on. I mean, it's just got to be great. I don't think I would recover from that. He's a very nice guy. I worked with him on a couple of talk shows. Very sweet. And a great sense of humor and a lover of

comedy and old movies. Really knows his showbiz history. He does. Which we appreciate. What was Devil's Shake? I'm looking at some of these other things. Do you remember these things that you sang for? Well, I sang for products you've never heard of. I started from a Coke problem that tasted like rust. And the one used to do a great commercial.

It was, I forget what it was called. It was horrible, you know. But Devil's Shake, the reason that's probably in my bio at some point, because it was one of the very first commercials I ever sang. And it was, very first, one of the very first commercials I ever sang and show, you know, and it was, what a great thing to, you know,

and I hired a bunch of my friends to sing with me. So it was like a real great event to say it never, it was a test product also for like a chocolate drink. Right, right, right. It was, it was great.

I worked for, I worked for the very best jingle producers in New York city. A girl named Susan Hamilton had an incredible company. Steve Carman was a very, very famous jingle guy, wrote the Budweiser spot. Sure, won a bunch of Cleos. And there was a crazy guy named Joe Brooks, who wrote a ton of the commercials I sang on, the Pepsi commercial with Hal Linden doing the announcing. And it's amazing. There were multi-million dollar companies based on just writing a 60-second spot.

It was amazing. Another podcast connection, Hal Linden. Also, I realized you're the second person to sing the McDonald's commercial. We also had John Amos. We had John Amos here on the show, and he's in one of those early spots with Anson Williams. Sure, sure. They did millions of those early spots with Anson Williams sure sure they did millions of those spots they were great

and a lot of singers in New York City got their exposure and got their training on those commercials Michael Bolton a whole bunch of people used to sing aside me on the commercials you think it's a bit of a dying art Ron because I don't hear the kind of jingles that we grew up with oh no they're gone.

The artistry. The most music you get today is, I'm loving it. I mean, that's a spot. Somebody got paid to write, I'm loving it, for McDonald's. Where's the music? So it really died out because now they use a famous song. There's a lot of that, yeah. They'll use

Happy Together for a commercial. They'll license something. But the jingle houses have passed away, I think. That's too bad. John Lennon said in an interview that he thinks, like, when he watches TV and hears commercial jingles, they're as good as any of the Beatles' early stuff. Wow. That's a great compliment. That's interesting.

That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, that stuff, those are the earworms, you know, but the stuff that we grew up on, there was real artistry to them. Well, they had to get to the hook. Yeah. In 30 seconds and pound it home by 60 seconds. That's really what the jingle produced. So you have to accelerate the amount of catchy melody and hooks as quickly as possible.

And that's why some of those great commercials of the past still sound great. You know, you hear Budweiser, here comes the king, here comes the king, here comes the king number one. Budweiser, beer, Budweiser. That's great. It's very musical. I should be getting paid

for this. I should be getting royalties on this. I'm doing all these commercials. I'm going to sing for Cadillac. Wait. I'm kidding. Paul Williams had a number one song. Oh, yes.

Only Just Begun, which was a bank commercial. Very good, Bill. You're impressing me tonight. You got it. That's right It was a beautiful commercial and what a great record Oh absolutely We've only just begun

To live What lesson promises A kiss for Luke And we're done On our own We've only just begun. Watching Ron Dante on a screen laughing at your Paul Williams impression. That's very funny.

Okay, no. True surrealism. That was mean. That was mean. It's a truly surreal moment. We were talking to our friend Danny Duraney is here, and he said, we came into the studio, and he said, oh, Ron Dante,, we got to talk about the Chan clan. Oh, yeah, the Chan clan.

I love Charlie Chan glowing up. There was some great movies with Cindy Toler. Sure. And all these different guys. Warner Rowland. Yeah. Oh, and the last one was Roland Winters. Roland Winters.

Yes. Very good. I love those movies. The number one son Roland Winters. Yes. Very good. I love those movies. The number one son. I loved him. Actually, Don Kirshner, again, came to me and said, we're doing a cartoon series based on Charlie Chan and his family, and I want you to write 10 of 15 songs for it and sing it and be the group.

So it's the Archies again. I wrote a bunch of songs with my good friend Howie Greenfield, who was a famous songwriter. Sure, of course. Breaking up is hard to do. Break is hard to do, and, you know, love will keep us together. Amazing songwriter. Wrote all those Neil Sedaka hits.

We got in a room, and in about two weeks, we knocked out all the songs for the Chan clan, and we sent them out to California to be animated, like, you know, your stuff. And it came back, and here's the the family and I loved it. But it's just like the Archies. I didn't change my voice. I didn't come up with a different take. I just gave them what I do.

And it was fun to see it for a while. It was the first Asian America cartoon series on a network, on CBS. And it was the first. You couldn't do it today. I guess not. It's not happening that much. Key Luke was the voice of Charlie Chan.

Now, didn't he go on to be the old man in Kung Fu, Key Luke? I think that sounds right. Yeah, that does. That sounds right. And I think Robert Ito, who went on to be Quincy's sidekick, was the actor doing, was also on Chan Clan. Yeah. Sidekick was the actor doing, was also on Chan Clan. Yeah.

No, there was a lot of good actors in that doing the voices because voiceover is a great business, right? Everybody wants it. It's easy. You come in in your pajamas and you sing or act. It's great. Right. You're like the guy who could just do any kind of voice, any kind of gig. It's a commercial. It's an animated series.

It's whatever it is. You're there, and you're adapting. Well, I'm a journeyman singer. I started off as a singer. I'll end as a singer. I got into producing. I got big things going on. But basically, this is what I do, and I love it.

I still sing. I still make records. If I produce somebody, I sing backgrounds for them because that's what I love it I still sing I still make records if I produce somebody I sing backgrounds for them because that's what I love to do and and and it is a funny when you do something you love it leads you to all the other things you know they come along you know the opportunities come along and I've been very fortunate I was in the right place at the right time with my guitar and and the my demeanor was something that people wanted to work with they liked me and i like them you're a chameleon ron and i mean that as a compliment i mean you really you really you

you really can do you can do anything was that dr jekyll and mr hyde wasn't it who was it spent who was the actors who spent frederick march and spencer tracy he didn't change that much he just kind of bent over and his hands got crooked in the movie. Oh, John Barrymore. That's it. He did it. He would open his eyes really wide and stick his chin and bottom teeth out and curl his fingers. So they saved on special effects.

He gave them a special effect without any help. Amazing. I loved him. He was like a real theater actor, Jekyll and Hyde. He was great. He was great. Towards the end of his career when he did television and stuff, they had to put the lines up outside the camera angle,

and he would just be reading his lines, and he still sounded and acted great. He just didn't want to study his words and he didn't want to commit it to memories how with it and he was bombed out of his skull more often than not we will return to gilbert gottfried's, colossal podcast after this. And since you brought up Spencer Tracy, was Spencer Tracy, did he somehow inspire Tracy by the cufflinks? You know, it could have been. It could have been because the fellow who wrote it was a fan of Spencer Tracy.

I'm sure something had to do with that name because there weren't that many girls named Tracy in 1969. Right, interesting. Ever since then, there's a lot more. Every time I go to my concerts, I mentioned it. And girls scream and the drunk girls run to the front of the audience and try to get on stage with me. And they're Tracy's. I say, well, see, you're probably how old are you? And they go, and I go, that's about the right time. You know, you never can tell.

Let's talk a little bit, too, as we as we wind down. Just talk about working with Barry. You met him at never can tell. Let's talk a little bit, too, as we wind down. Just talk about working with Barry. You met him at a jingle session. Yes. We were singing some product for Coke that tasted like rust. But he arranged it, and I remember it was a really good arrangement. The band played great. It was really cool.

It was 60 seconds of pop hit. And I was one of the hired singers along with Melissa Manchester and Valerie Simpson of Ashford & Simpson. Oh, very cool. And Barry and I were the two guys and they were the two girls. And we sang that day. And it was what a great sound we all made, right? All good singers. Of course.

And after the session, Barry said, oh, I know you're from the Archies and the Cufflinks and you're doing jingles. He said, I'd like to record. I said, well, do you write? He said, I write.'re from the Archies and the Cufflinks and you're doing jingles. He said, I'd like to record. I said, well, do you write? He said, I write. I've got some great songs. I said, well, let's meet in a day or so and let me hear your songs. And I met him a couple of days later. And he told me he was working with this girl, Bette Midler, who was working at the Continental

Baths with him. And he said, she's got a record deal. But I don't want to, you know, I don't want to be, you know, I want to be a singer. I don't want to be her arranger. And I don't want to be the guy in the piano pit behind her. And I listened to a few of his songs he played me, Could It Be Magic, based on the Chopin Prelude that he wrote.

And, wow, I said, well, this is quality, and he sounded great. I said, let's go in the studio. We'll make like four demos. And we did four demos, and we arranged a showcase for the record companies at the continental bass right so we're sitting there and we put the four record company presidents in the front row and behind them are all these naked guys with towels and

stuff and if they like you if they like you they throw the towels at you right so towels were flying that night so the record company guys made an offer they said we'll give you an album deal and we took an album deal with a small label and uh we recorded our first album and um after that about a year and a half later the the label changed hands and a guy named clive davis came in to be the president and uh he throw everybody off the label except barry Melissa Manchester and myself. So then we ended up recording Mandy. And that key, that is so funny.

One key change in a song made his career because it was called Brandy, as everybody mentioned. Yeah, it was a different song, right? It was upbeat, like hard rock kind of. It was upbeat, definitely. It had tempo and stuff. And Barry, to his his credit slowed it down he said no i can do how about like this slow nice ballad and and we recorded it that night and uh there were just three pieces on it bass drums and piano and he sang a live vocal and that's the live vocal on the record it's like you know when you do something really well or when

when like uh lightning strikes and you say this was a great set and I'm glad they caught it. That's what happened that night. You could just feel the electricity in the studio. We recorded at a place called media sound, which was a reconverted chapel. There was still pews in there and a stained glass. And I was praying for a hit here in the city. Yeah. Right here in New York city, I was praying for a hit. Here in the city? Yeah, right here in New York City, 57th Street. Wow, not far from where we are.

Melissa Manchester, is it true that she's sweet Melissa, angel of my lifetime? You're absolutely right. Gil, you did research. Very good, Gilbert. Gilbert's like the CIA today. He's unbelievable. He's got his secret sources and he's got his info. I love it.

He's on fire. Is it just the vocals? Is just you and Barry multitracking your voices? Yes, on Mandy. Yeah. And same thing with I Write the Songs. It sounds like a choir, but it's just my vocal overkill. We multitrack our voices. I sing high.

I sing low. I sing mid. Barry did the same, and we mix it all together. It sounds like 400 guys, and it's just the two of us. I'm Mandy. I write the songs. Can't Smile Without You. Any of our records, it's just we call ourselves the Barons.

I'm sorry. It's a bad joke. You guys had the golden touch. I mean, Mandy, it's a miracle. Could it be magic? I write the songs trying to get the feeling. This one's for you. Weekend in New England. Daybreak, Can't Smile,

it just keeps going on. You know, I'm exhausted. Frank, I'm exhausted again. I'm getting so tired and winded thinking about all the, we had 18 top 20 records in the world. Yeah. We were, from 75 to 80, we were the middle of the road songs. And I'm proud of them because they were really good songs.

I knew a lot of good songwriters, so did Barry. And Barry wrote half of them. Yeah. But half of them came from different people. Well, Randy Edelman and Bruce Johnston and Marty Panzer, I have to give them credit, too, for those great songs. Absolutely. Richard Kerr. David Pomerantz, who you've mentioned on previous.

Oh, my God, yes. Richard Kerr. David Pomerantz, who you've mentioned on previous. Oh, my God, yes. Richard Kerr and Will Jennings. Yeah, David Pomerantz was doing the singing in the movie Zapped. This is what he brought up on a previous episode. Scott Baio and Willie Ames. Right. You brought that up when we had Greg Evigan on the show. And Scatman Crothers.

Wow. I love Scatman. It's a hell of a group. And Scatman Crothers. Wow. I love Scatman. It's a hell of a group. The Scatman. Speaking of Greg Evigan, did you, and I did not see this directly in the research, but I'm sussing this out. Did you audition for the Greg Evigan, Paul Schaefer short-lived show that Don Kirshner produced? I think I remember. I did.

You were at the top? Yeah, I did. I did. They wanted me to, the original concept was four guys or something like that. And they wanted me to wear a stupid hat. They said, you gotta wear this stupid hat if you're going to be in the show. And I said, I've come a long way. I don't have to wear this stupid hat to get in your pilot. And so I turned it down. stupid hat to get in your pilot. And so I turned it down. And then Paul, of course, came around and they changed the whole concept of it, what was happening. And I was very happy for Paul because he's such a great guy. He helped me with, he was the only piano player that I could hire on Barry Manilow sessions. I brought Paul into play on Bandstand Boogie and a whole album. And I remember Barry was very picky about who else was on keys in his sessions, but he loved Paul. Because Paul had that

great, you know, when he shows up, you love the guy. Of course. And he's a super talented keyboard player. He knows every pop song known to man. He can play the happy organ, which you tried with my comics. No. I remember that.

I'm a master of the happy organ What was his name? Dave Baby The guy that did the happy organ song Dave Baby Cortez Oh, can you sing some of that for us? No, no, that's instrumental I need an organ What can you add words to it?

I'll just add words. Paul produced one of your albums, too, Street Angel. Yes, I got a label that wanted to sign me and give me a solo album. Said, who do you want to produce with? I said, I want Paul Schaefer to arrange it. And so we went down to the Bee Gees studio in Miami, Criteria. I said, that's a lucky studio. The Bee Gees did all their hits out of the studio.

It must be something magic in that studio. So Paul and I went down there for three weeks to Miami, and we went in every day and made records, and the studio stunk. The studio sound was the worst sound you've ever heard. The drums sounded like it was hitting cardboard. They couldn't get a good sound. I took all the stuff back to New York to to media sound the the chapel and remixed it and of course it all sounded beautiful but uh paul was great as a co-producer and a ranger because he's got really

good arranging chops he doesn't use them that much but he really can arrange a thing i remember once i was doing a classical rock group these twin guys who played grand pianos and it was classical rock with da-na-na-na-na, you know, big themes. And my arranger, who I had hired first, didn't show up. With the arrangements, I had 30 pieces in the orchestra waiting for the arrangements. So Paul walks in. He's my keyboardist on the day. I said, Paul, you've got to help me here. Write some arrangements quickly.

He went to the back room. He wrote a string arrangement. He wrote a horn arrangement, some chords. He saved the date. Paul saved the date. It would have been a complete disaster. The arranger I had hired did classical work. I thought he'd be perfect for it.

But he was, you know, he didn't show up. He didn't show up. And what do you do when the arrangements don't show up? Paul Schaefer saved the day. Did you guys go deep sea diving at some point? We went deep sea fishing. Deep sea fishing. I took the entire band off the coast of Miami.

Can you imagine Paul Schaefer? And everybody turned green. Paul Schaefer turned a deep purple green after about the first hour out there we were catching sharks and minnows and I was saying let's have some beer let's have a sandwich and everybody's sicker than dogs my camera crew, everybody was sick

I have a picture of that somewhere it's amazing, afterwards we caught a hammerhead shark I've never fished in my entire life I'm reeling in this eight foot hammerhead shark I said I've never, I've never fished in my entire life. I'm reeling in this, this eight foot hammerhead shark. I said, I'm going to hurt my hand here. I can't play guitar with this hammerhead. Somebody else reeled it in. So that was, that was the day, but Paul was a good sport about it. We went back into the studio the next day. I have a mole who told me that a friend

I work with a guy named Bob Lampel, who was there that day. Oh my God. He was the videographer. You bet. I work with him. I work with him every day at ABC, and he said, you asked Ron Dante about going deep-sea fishing with Paul Schaefer. It kind of blew my head. It was such a disaster. Never take people deep-sea. I didn't know what it was about. I said, let's go out deep-sea fishing.

We're in Miami. What do you do? You go to High Line or you go deep-sea fishing. That didn't work out. Now I gotta ask you if you do a Paul Schaefer imitation because you've worked with him so much.

That's a great question. That's great. I've never done it. But Paul is nasal. He's got very nasal sound. And he goes, yes, David. Yes, David. But Paul is nasal. He's got very nasal sound, you know? And he goes, yes, David. Yes, David.

Yes, whatever you want, David. That's good. Good, David. Keep talking. I'm fine here. I'm having fun with the band. You do what you want at the desk. Pretty good.

Pretty good. You do a little Schaefer, don't you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he would go, hey, you know, Gilbert. Gilbert. Yeah, that's funny in the beginning of the set. Then he's got that sudden staccato laugh that suddenly bursts out. He bursts out into laughter. He's a fun guy.

Paul is another guy with no show business history, boy. Oh, yeah. He was just at my show a weekend ago in New York City, Staten Island. I played the St. George Theater there. And the 1910 was on the bill with me. Oh, sorry. We missed that. And Herman's Herman's Peter Noon.

And I invited Paul to come. And Paul showed up. It was like two weeks ago. He's the best friend you could have. He loves to come to these things and enjoy backstage. So I took him backstage. He met everybody. We took pictures. He's the best friend you could have. He loves to come to these things and enjoy backstage. So I took him backstage. He met everybody. We took pictures.

He's just a great guy. He's out there touring himself with his band. They're going to be here in Los Angeles, I think, in June sometime. He's getting around. We've got to get Paul back on and plug those dates. And speaking of you being here, performing here, you're going to be back in, do I have the Happy Together Tour? Do I have the dates right?

You're back here in June? Yes. At Westbury? I'll be at Westbury, yes. And I'll be all over New Jersey and north of you and south of you. It's almost 50 dates. It's you and our friend Howard Kalin. That's right.

And Mark Vollman. And who else? The Cow Sills. Oh, the Cow Sills. The Cow Sills. They're great. And the Cow Sills. The Cow Sills, they're great. And the Box Tops. Give me a ticket for an airplane.

Sure. They'll be on the tour. The Association singing Cherish and Never My Love and beautiful songs. It's going to be a killer. Chuck Nygren from the Three Dog Night singing Celebrate and some great stuff. He's a wonderful guy and he still has great chops. So it's going to be a fun night. Please come.

Gil, we've got to go to this. You've got to show up. Let me know if you want to come. Westbury on June 16th. We absolutely would be good to meet Howard, too. We had him on the show. Yeah, no, no. Email me so I know. Absolutely.

Are you willing to sing with this man, Ron, as we wind this down? He did sing Happy Together with Howard. Last week, I'll have you know, he sang Wichita Lineman with Jimmy Webb. Oh, yes. What a kick. You know, I live for these moments. But I'm game if you are. Okay.

Now, we're not sure of your voice, but I'll carry you. What do you feel like doing? Frankie, do you have that queued up? This is karaoke music. So you'll start first. I'll start. We'll point. Okay.

Okay. Here goes nothing. Ah, sugar. Ah, honey, honey. You are my candy girl. And you got me wanting you. Take it, Gil. Honey! Honey! Ah Take it, Gil. Honey.

Ah, sugar, sugar. You are my candy girl. And you got me wanting you. I just can't believe the loveliness of loving you. I just can't believe it's true. I just can't believe the wonder of this feeling too. I just can't believe it's true. Ah, sugar! Ah, honey, honey!

You are my candy girl. And you got me wanting you. Oh, honey. Ah, sugar, sugar. You are my candy girl. And you got me wanting you. When I kissed your girl, I knew how sweet a kiss could be. I knew how sweet a kiss could be.

Pick it up, you're behind. Like the summer sunshine, pour your sweetness over me. Pour your sweetness over me. Pour your sweetness over me. You're old lady. Pour a little sugar on me, honey. Pour a little sugar on me, honey. Pour a little sugar on me, baby. I'm gonna make your life so sweet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pour a little sugar on it. Oh, yeah. Pour a little sugar on it, honey. Pour a little sugar on it, baby. I'm gonna make your life so sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pour a little sugar

on it, honey. Ah, honey. Ah, honey. You are my candy girl. And you want me, want you. Oh, honey. Sugar, sugar.

You are my candy. By the way, I don't want to alarm anybody, but Ron hanged himself with his earphone cord. No, no, Jeff Barry just called the writer of the song, just called, he jumped off a building. But it was the Brill Building, if it makes you feel any better. We want to apologize to Andy Kim and to the great Jeff Barry. That's a classic rendition, though. That is funny. I want a copy of that.

I do. I love that. I'm kidding. I love that. We'll get that to you, Ron. It's not quite Wilson Pickett's cover, is it? No, no. Not quite.

No, no. Should we try locomotion? It's head and shoulders above. We should do your animated from Aladdin and me singing together with you. It can be arranged. When you do it, that's what I'm seeing. Or you're seeing the parrot. Yeah, yeah.

It's perfect. It's just perfect. I've got to get a copy of this. I, yeah. I mean, it's just perfect. It's just perfect. I've got to get a copy of this. I love it. I'll post it. You know, Ron, I'm going to tell you quickly while you're looking up the lyrics, some of the people he sang with. He just did Do You Want to Know a Secret with Billy J. Kramer. Oh, man, I love Billy.

Great. Yeah, he did Wichita Lineman and MacArthur Park with Jimmy Webb. We did Tie a Yellow Ribbon with Tony. Who else? Who am I missing? Oh, God. There's a yellow ribbon with Tony. Who else? Who am I missing? There's a bunch. Paul Williams. You and Paul sang the Rainbow Connection.

Rainbow Connection and Nice to Be Around. And he sang Put on a Happy Face with Dick Van Dyke. And Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. So there might be an LP. There's definitely something coming up here. That's very...

That's not me. I think it's Phlegm. No. I'll be coming up afterwards. You know what we need? We need the old K-Tel days. We're the old LP collection.

All right, you guys are brave souls. I'll do the opening part. Okay, everybody's doing a brand new, good, good, good, good. This should be good. Okay. Everybody's doing a brand new dance now Come on baby, do the locomotion I know you'll like it to like it if you give it a chance now

Come on baby, do the locomotion Baby sister can do it with me It's easier than doing it on ABC. So come on, come on. God. You've got to swing your hips now. Come on. I'm doing a lot of come ons.

I got it. Come on. Jump back. All that stuff. Let me do it. Now that you can do it, jump back. All that stuff. Let me do it. Now that you can do it, let's make a chain now. Come on, baby, do the locomotion.

A chugga-chugga motion like a railroad train now. Come on, baby, do the locomotion. Do it nice and easy, don't lose control. A little bit of rhythm and a lot of soul. Come on, come on, come on, do a locomotion with me. Move around. Jump up. Do it, hold your hands if you get the notes. Jump up.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Everybody's doing a brand new dance now. Come on, baby. Do the locomotion. No, you get to like it if you give it a chance now. Come on, baby. Take it, girl. Baby sister.

This is going great. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Come on, come on, come on. I forget what song we're singing. This is great. Oh, my, my. Why did we screw that one up? Carole King.

She's not going to speak to you again, Ron. Well, I usually work with better singers. That's below the belt. That man is Italian. Oh, yes. I'll call my cousin, Gugu. He'll come over and talk to you.

No neck, but very sweet. You know, we had a shot at getting Carol on this show. Yeah, that's gone. I think it just went

by the boards. That shot to shit. Oh, God. Ron, you may be the best sport we've had yet. You're a brave, brave soul.

I want to plug a couple of your records, too, the anthology, which has wonderful stuff on it, particularly the song Charmer that I love. And also your favorite CD, where you do Rock Me Gently, you do The Grassroots, you do Happy Together, which I heard you say is a song you wish you had recorded. Yes, very much. And now I'm going to hear it every night. Happy Together. That's right.

I don't know about my favorite song at the end of the tour. I'll be going, oh, no, not that song again. No, I'm looking forward to seeing those guys and hearing it. It's going to be a great tour. I tell you what, when we send you the copy of Sugar Sugar that we just did, we'll send you a copy of Gilbert and Howard doing Happy Together. That would be great. I would love to hear that.

This is a hoot. This is a hoot. You've missed your callings, Gilbert. You've missed your callings. Let's get down to the fact that's a melodious sound you make. It's just, come on. So, Ron, what else is coming up? The tour is coming up.

What else are you doing these days? You're always busy. I'm always busy. I am producing again. I'm producing two new acts. One is a Christian act named Jeremy Gaynor, who was on The Voice. And he's a sergeant from West Point. And we're doing an album together.

I'm recording him. I think he's going to be a big star. And I'm also producing a new group called The Fucos. They're originally from Long Island. They're a family group, kind of like the Partridge family with edge. Oh yeah. With, with a little more rock and roll. And, uh, I'm working with them, uh, actually the middle of the month. So I do keep my hand in a lot of things, not just singing, but I'm, I love to produce and, and you'll hear about both these acts probably by the end of the year.

Wonderful. Yeah. I have really enjoyed this. This has been the most fun I've had in a long time. Oh, that's nice of you to say. Oh, thank you, Ron. You're sweet. Thanks for doing it.

I'm exhausted. I know Ron is. So let me wrap this up. I'm Gilbert Godfrey This has been Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast With my co-host Frank Santopadre

Once again at Nutmeg With our engineer Frank Ferdarosa And we've been talking And more importantly singing With someone Whose girl voice I've jerked off to. When you were divorced from Betty and Veronica. No, he corrected you on that.

He cleared that up. But he did sing it today. I'm honored by that. I will be whacking it right after we get off the air. Howard Kalin's going to be so jealous. And we've been talking to singer, writer, arranger, producer, Ron Dante. The man that even worked with Max von Sydow, for Christ's sake. Oh, my God. You were in The Exorcist?

I was The Exorcist. The great Ron Dante. My singing partner. Ron, a personal treat for me. Thank you, guys. Thanks for doing this, man. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you, guys.

Enjoy New York. I was just there. I loved it. I'll see you when I come to Westbury. We'll see you in June. Okay. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, buddy. And jingle jangle sing time Right on to the summer and the fall

So darling, don't be weeping And please don't keep me sleeping When I come creeping down the hall To sing you La, la, la, la, la, la, la Sing me, sing me, sing me La, la, la, la, la, la, la Oh, come on

Oh, come on Oh, come on Oh, come on Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on La, da, da, da, da, da Tingle, tangle, tangle La, da, da,, come on, come on, come on La-da-da-da-da-da Sing for a jingle, jingle La-da-da-da-da-da Sing me, baby

La-da-da-da-da-da Sing for a jingle, jingle La-da-da-da-da-da Sing me, baby La-da-da-da-da-da