Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Steven Van Zandt

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

GGACP celebrates the birthday of actor, musician and Rock & Roll Hall of Famer Steven Van Zandt (b. November 22) by revisiting this fun, freewheeling conversation from 2020. In this episode, Steven talks about beloved kiddie show hosts, the glory days of Top 40 radio, the mystique of gangster movies, the Beatles' impact on popular culture and the Rat Pack's "connection" to the E Street Band. Also, Darlene Love mounts a comeback, Little Richard officiates a wedding, Ol' Blue Eyes covers Simon & Garfunkel and Steven remembers his dear friend James Gandolfini. PLUS: The Singing Nun! "Angels with Dirty Faces"! The genius of William Castle! "Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine"! And Gilbert and Steven pay tribute to "The Nutty Professor"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough for something so fantastic. So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Out of the 300 plus shows that

Frank and I have done, this week's guest may have the longest and most varied list of accomplishments. We'll do our best to sum them up. He's a musician, songwriter, recording artist, record producer, music supervisor, music historian, actor, director, TV producer, film composer, disc jockey, radio host, and human rights activist. He's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and one of the world's leading authorities on both contemporary and traditional rock and roll. As an actor, you've seen him in the Netflix show, Lilyhammer, a show he also co-wrote

and executive produced. In the new Martin Scorsese film, The Irishman. And of course, as mobster and consigliere, Silvio Dante, in the long-running HBO series The Sopranos. As a founding member of Bruce Springsteen's East Street Band and his own band, Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul,

he's performed all over the world to sold-out crowds. And his original songs have been recorded by jackson brown pearl jam darlene love and nancy sinatra to name's more he's also created the terrific little stevens underground garage yay heard right here on serious xm and founded the Rock and Roll Forever Foundation to keep students engaged and in school. His elaborate new box set is called Rock and Roll Rebel The Early Work, and I'm exhausted just reading about him. We're thrilled to welcome to the show

our rock and roll icon a renaissance artist and to put it mildly a man who says his life was forever changed by an event that took place 56 years and one day ago the the legendary Stephen Van Zandt. Marron. Can we take a break now? As Gilbert says, it also doubles as an obituary. I always feel that you're then found dead in this New York apartment. You forgot my other station on Sirius, Outlaw Country.

Outlaw Country. Channel 60. You know, you forgot some things. I'll read our whole over again. Get one of those guests, even the intro could go on and on and on. I mean, there's a lot of stuff. Yeah, well, you know, try to stay busy, you know. You don't like to take vacations.

We were talking before. No, I don't get it. I don't get that whole concept, you know try to stay busy you know you don't like to take vacations we were talking before i don't get it i don't get that whole concept you know you lay on the beach for an hour and then what i i don't like going out of town for a day to me a vacation is sitting on the couch with the tv remote that's a vacation yeah i'm with you i'm with you i'm with you you're both workaholics neither one of you want to stop working well i'd love to sit i want to go home now what did you tell steven about what what you wish would happen every night you perform like right before i'm about to go on stage, I'll be backstage with the fantasy that the manager of the club will say we had a fire or a flood and no show tonight. Here's your check.

And just recently it happened. There was some kind of screw up. I was supposed to do two shows and something happened with the first show some screw up with the tickets and he said so you could either go on and do a first show or we could cancel it and i i screamed i cancel it that's a work ethic isn't it i I had an erection knowing I wasn't doing two shows that night. Yeah, you know, I understand. I do. You know, sometimes you book a lot of things, you know,

and then they cancel, like you're saying. And it's such a thrill when you get one thing after the other, one day after the other, you know. And sometimes I just book things just to cancel i mean just to kind of have that same feeling to get a high from the cancel yeah because you know i get a free day off it's a free day you know yeah one one time i was booked in hawaii this shows how neurotic i am i was booked in hawaii and then there was some screw up with their uh I think the club got sold to someone whatever some some screw up and they said your Hawaii gig is canceled and I was thrilled I was

thrilled that I wasn't going to Hawaii that's a hell of a ride it is I was reading your Twitter feed and uh just we referenced it in the intro 56 years ago and one day and you were you were complaining that that the oscars not a not not a single mention nobody mentioned it yeah not even hanks not even hanks what you would expect right right what was he doing selling a new museum or something oh the hollywood the hollywood museum to mention it yeah 50 by the way right 56 years tonight, the whole world changed. The Beatles did Ed Sullivan. Your Big Bang, as you like to call it. It was a Big Bang of more than me.

I remember watching that with my father and mother and sisters. Yeah, I don't. I'm not that old. But somebody told me about it. People tell me about these things. I pretend I was there. In fact, I was sitting first row at a Rudy Valley concert. You know, I forgot, too.

I was watching Not Fade Away. And I forgot that when the Stones were on the Hollywood Palace, that Dean Martin was rather dismissive of them. That was a big moment for me. He rolled his eyes. That was the second half of my... Of the Big Bang. Yes, it really was.

Because, you know, the Beatles, by the time we saw the Beatles, that was halfway through the career. Yeah. And they were too good. I mean, they blew your mind and they said, here's a whole new world. And boy, did I need a whole new world at that point, you know. I couldn't fit in anywhere.

I couldn't think of what I was going to do. But, you know, they were so good that you couldn't picture doing it. You know what I mean? Yeah. The harmony was perfect, and the clothes and everything was amazing. But just four months later, thank God, the Rolling Stones came, you know. And they made it look easier than it was. They wore different things.

They had no harmony. It was kind of like the first punk band. And so the Beatles showed us the world, and the Rolling Stones invited us in. That's how I put it. I like the way you described the Beatles on Sullivan. You said it couldn't have been a bigger impact if a spaceship had landed.

Right. In fact, it was more of an impact because we'd seen spaceships land on TV. You've never seen this. Right? You saw that, you know, the day of the Earth stood still. But, you know, this was nothing like you'd ever seen before because there was no bands. People, I know it's hard to imagine, right? But there was no bands.

Right. You know, you had singing individuals, you know, you you had singing groups but there was not a lot of bands and and when the Beatles came over it was so weird that they were looked upon as so like these weird hippies they're all wearing suits and ties I know I know and as nice as could be yeah but then our parents got a very good perspective on it when the Rolling Stones came, you see. All of a sudden, those ugly, nasty Beatles were so bad. Oh, yeah. Well, the Stones didn't look like show business. The Beatles were at least, they were all wearing the same outfit, and they looked like show business.

But that was the thing that changed my life, and I know it sounds silly, but the fact that Mick Jagger did not smile was the first time I'd ever seen anybody in show business not smile. And that to me meant this is not show business anymore. This is a lifestyle. It's a whole different thing. And that was what really attracted me. You know, that was the thing I was like, I want to do that. You know what I mean? I want to be part of that lifestyle. I don't care about show business. You know, I like it now, You know what I mean? I want to be part of that lifestyle. I don't care about show business, you know. I like it now, you know what I mean? But back then, you know, I wasn't a show business person, you know.

But that lifestyle of just being in a band and not really changing once you go offstage and onstage, it's kind of the same thing, you know. That was a new idea. And the Rolling Stones had that impact on me that was like man you know that's different and uh we're in you know the challenge for you though was how do i get there how do i get from here i'm still working on it gilbert you have any specific memories of watching that as a kid of watching the beatles yeah i i remember watching that because it just seemed like, you know, back then, I always think about this. Back then, you could go up to anybody on the street and say, hey, how about that so-and-so show last night?

And everybody in the world saw that show. Like laughing. Yeah. We talk about water cooler shows. Yeah, you go, hey, remember you remember hey wasn't that funny when bob hope uh got splashed with the three channels yeah right and everybody knew it and if you appeared on if they saw the back of your head for a second on tv everybody wanted your autograph the next day yeah but yeah no i remember watching the beatles

i think my father said if it was up to me they'd starve there you go what was gandolfini's character saying not fade away when he's watching the uh when he's watching he's watching the stones he says something Yeah. If it was up to me or something. But that night, you know, I don't remember what he said. But for me, I saw my past meeting my future, you know, because I'm, you know, Italian-American. So Dean Martin was a hero, you know. Yeah, sure.

And still is, you know. I mean, I never stopped liking him. And he was making fun of them, you know, terribly. I mean, really, really obnoxiously. Yeah, I'd forgotten it. And to this day, don them, you know, terribly. I mean, really, really obnoxious. Yeah. I'd forgotten it. And to this day, don't mention it to Keith Richards.

I'm telling you right now. He still wrote about it in his book. Don't mention it. Yeah. He still wants to, you know. He wants to kill Dean Martin. You know. He wish he was alive. He could kill him again.

But, I mean, for me, it made sense. Of course he's making fun of them. They're supposed to make fun of them you know what i mean it was like you didn't want to appeal to your parents back then you know so the fact that that generation was completely appalled by these new rock and roll guys was uh was more attractive to to us you know what was weird about that time period too you'd listen to the radio and there would be frank sinatra then the stones yeah uh the beatles and and the singing nun yeah yeah the singing nuns right or the green berets or novelty songs you can hear tip throw

to the tiptoe through the tulips. Yes. Or Napoleon. What was it? They're coming to take me away. Oh, yeah. They'd be like Sammy Davis Jr. and Bob Dylan. And the same thing on the old hullabaloo shows.

If you go back and look at them, we were very fortunate to have, I don't know how many, like eight rock and roll TV shows on every week. Yeah. One of which was called Hullabaloo for only for a couple of years. But they were kind of mixing the generations on that show. So you'd have a rock and roll show, but the host would be Jerry Lewis. Yes.

Or, you know, singing with his son, Gary Lewis, you know? Or Sammy Davis Jr. You know, they'd be the host, which was like crazy when you go back and look at that stuff. I love it. Before you, it's what you call when radio became segregated, when everybody, what he's talking about, the era that we could hear everything.

It really was a common ground. Top 40, as it was called. You know, the hits, you know. But it was only AM radio, and we had two stations in this area, and they were both identical, you know, WMCA and WABC. Yeah, we grew up with the Harry Harrison and Ron Lundy and all those guys. All those guys over there and Cousin Brucey over there, you know, who's still here, unbelievably.

Yes, he is. I think we're in his studio. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that was – but they were great. You know, before FM radio, it was still great radio. Wasn't the case in England. Those poor guys had to wait a long time before they got decent radio.

But we were lucky right away. And then there was that classic duet with Bing Crosby and David Bowie. Oh, yeah, it was later, yeah. Yeah. It was wonderful. That was wonderful. That was great. The Drummer Boy. Little Drummer Boy.

Yeah, Little Drummer Boy. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was great. You could hear every kind of music on those pop stations because ABC basically played whatever was on the charts. Yeah. So you could have bubble gum.

And rock and roll was staging a slow coup over the charts and slowly, you know, they would pretty much take over by, well, with the British invasion, with the Beatles and all that, really started to really take it over. But up until then, rock and roll was an underground cult that was kind of sneaking in with Elizabeth Presley or Bill Haley and the Comets or, you know, Little Richard and those guys, you know.

And then there was that also it was creepy when people like Frank Sinatra started trying to keep up with the kids. And he did like Mrs. Robinson. I love that. Yeah. He likes it. Yeah. We play it.

It's on my format. It's on my playlist. Jilly loves you more than you will know. Exactly. What's better than that? Jilly Rizzo reference. You cuckoo bird, Mrs. Robinson. We've played it on this show, too, but not affectionately.

I don't know. I love it. The way Steven plays it. To me, it's a jaw-dropper. A little shocking at first, but me i love that stuff and sammy with his nero jackets and peace signs yeah and the boots the beetle boots oh yeah and he did the uh the famous bob's fossey movie uh which is what sweet charity or one of those you know what he was doing all of the cool swinging 60s dances.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, Sammy was hip. Why has there never been a great movie about Sammy Davis Jr.? There should be. Can somebody tell me this? He's got to be the most talented, accomplished guy in the world. I mean, really.

He's one of the most talented guys in the history of show business. I don't remember ever seeing a great movie about him. Did you ever meet any of the Rat Pack in your travels no never never rubbed elbows with any of those guys they wouldn't have liked me why is that i doubt that's true unless they visited the set of the sopranos or lily hammer you know then they would have liked me a little bit but no they wouldn't like around that time of the Rat Pack and Martin and Lewis and all that I always think

there was somebody there's somebody alive who knows some really ugly secrets about all of them well it's pretty much printed in a lot of books by now yeah did you read the great

atocious book, Dino? Oh, that's a great book. One of the great biographies of all time. We just lost him, the writer. Yes, it's a shame. Yeah. Fantastic.

Speaking of those DJs that went away, those great DJs that we grew up with, that was part of your idea behind Underground Garage, wasn't it? To bring personalities

back to that. Yeah. To bring that world back. We'd be the only generation that had any fun, you know? It's terrible. I feel really bad about what we're leaving these future generations. Yeah, because we grew up in what you call that Renaissance period. We had access to all of it.

It was a Renaissance, okay? When the greatest art being made is also the most commercial, it's a Renaissance period, you know? And we took it for granted, totally. But personality was expected and encouraged, you know, in those days. And suddenly when the consultants came into radio, late 70s and the 80s, slowly all the personality was pushed into sports radio and talk radio and the audience went with it yeah that's interesting yeah how did how that happened well it's corporate you know it becomes corporate somebody made the decision that you don't need personalities to play records yeah they were they were fucking idiots okay you know because you know pretty much well it's just like we we've had few kiddie show, old kiddie show hosts on the podcast.

Do you remember Wonderama with Sonny Fox? I watched that show. We had Sonny Fox on the show. And we had Chuck McCann. Chuck McCann, too, yeah. And it was like back then, you know, in between the cartoons, you had this friend on TV. He was your adult friend. And he nice and uh well officer joe bolton captain jack mccarthy and all those guys but he grew up in the tri-state area andy divine

sure oh yes oh and sandy becker yeah yeah yeah all gone but yes but a similar thing happened on the radio you know you know where you had a relationship with the DJ or with the radio station, you know. Harry Harrison we just lost last week. You know, and you didn't, you know, everybody's lonely a little bit, you know what I mean? And you're right. They became your friends. I mean, they really did.

And what was funny about shows like Ed Sullivan is it's like's like you know you're a kid you want to see like the rock band and maybe a comedian but and you were forced to watch an opera singer or a ballet dancer and then you were tessie o'shea who played the night at the beat? Yes. Tessie O'Shea. Oh. Jugglers. Yeah, the jugglers, sure. You were forced to watch stuff you didn't want to watch, and then you go, oh, okay, I got a taste of that. That wasn't so bad. Yeah, yeah.

And so you were forced to broaden your horizons. And actually, to a smaller extent, in a way, that's what Bill Graham did when he started Fillmore East and Fillmore West. You know, it was the first time a real production came to rock and roll. And he would have, you know, The Who and Miles Davis, you know, and Buddy Guy. You know, and do exactly what you're saying, where you came to see the who, but you're getting turned on to a Miles Davis or, you know, or some blues, you know, Albert King or, you know.

And that was a radical move that we really owe Bill Graham a lot for that kind of foresight and, you know, telling people, not only giving them what they want, but also a little bit of what they need. I think so. It's better for the culture. Yeah. I mean, those days are over now.

And Gilbert's point about the radio, too. You did have to listen to Sergeant Barry Sadler and the Candyman and Yummy, Yummy, Yummy and every kind of music. Especially because everything was only two minutes. And everything was only two minutes. You didn't need to go away. Just wait for a minute and a half.

Something would change. And it's like what happened with radio and TV is it's like now, okay, you want to hear country? You go to this station. You want to hear rock? You go to this station. And everything's separate. Yeah, except on my stations.

Yes. the station and everything's separate yeah except on my stations yes but i intentionally broadened that out yeah to to you know both in both of my rock and roll format and my country format to really broaden out the roots of where things come from and uh and you know we have the widest formats that ever were created you know for that, you know. Let's turn people on to things. Why not? What broke my heart to hear you say that you would be the only guy playing the Stones if the Stones showed up today. Well, that's what happens. If Paul McCartney puts out a new record, I'm the only one playing it.

Right, right. Don't ask me why. That's tragic. Before they started the Beatles channel, I was the only one playing the Beatles. That doesn't make any sense. Who thought we'd live that long to see the Beatles go away? I mean, it's a strange world we're living in right now. Thank God Sirius came along when it did.

But I had started my show a couple of years before that, and the format was crazy for people. I said, well, I'm going to play all 60 years of rock and roll and its roots. People said, you can't do that. I said, yeah, I'm going to play blues. I'm going to play soul i'm gonna play girl groups i'm gonna play surf you know i'm gonna do it all right you know and british invasion and the best punk you know clash and ramones and they're like you can't do that and

i was like yes you can if it's the right songs you know on tv i remember i don't know if it was uh probably the grammys paul mccartney came out and was playing. And it panned to the audience, and these two girls were looking at their cell phones. And I thought, wow, this is how times have changed. They thought Kanye West discovered him. Right. I work with people who have no idea who Paul McCartney is.

It's stunning. That's one of the greatest part of the Oscars last night, one of the greatest moments, was Billie Eilish doing Yesterday, and I think she's going to turn millions of young kids onto the Beatles. Oh, I think you're right. Because of that. I think you're right. I really, I mean it.

She's got millions of followers and you know and i like her a lot but you know i wasn't expecting her to do yesterday you know we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast after this so one of the surprises of life you're you're how old when you're sitting there watching nissan 64 on the solomon show and you know my grandfather was there but i you know in the middle of new jersey yeah the thought that one day you're going to be on stage with paul mccartney is god no inconceivable no it was really literally i mean i don't know top three highlights of my life i mean him coming on stage with bruce and the street band was one thing, which was wonderful.

Then he invited me and Bruce to join him at the Garden, which was amazing. But then he came on my stage with the Disciple of Soul, you know, as a surprise. And, wow. Making up for the curfew. The show that got shut down. Yeah, for those of you. That's a great story the first time paul came on stage with bruce springsteen and the street band were playing the hyde park and there was a curfew at like whatever 10 o'clock and i swear it was like 1001. you know man 1001 paul mccartney on stage with

bruce springsteen and they pulled the plug. Did you know that, Gilbert? Did you hear that one? They pulled the light, they turned the lights off. Oh, jeez. They were past, in Hyde Park, right? Hyde Park, yeah. In Hyde Park. Yeah.

So he was making up the, he was righting a wrong. But anyway, when he came on stage with me, man, that was, you know, I just remember being in my room, you know, whatever, 12 years old, listening to that first album. Their first album stage with me man that was you know i just remember being in my room you know whatever

12 years old listening to that first album their their first album was the first album anybody bought in my generation you know it was actually their second album but we didn't know that but i remember you know and he's slowing that thing down trying to learn how to play guitar to it you know and now he's on stage. And I remember they had the Beatles cards, you know, with the stick of gum in it. Lots of merchandise, yeah, for the Wigs. They used to sell them in Colony Music, the late lamented Colony Music near the Brill Building.

They used to have a case in the back where you could buy the old Beatle Wigs and the old plastic ukulele and all that stuff. I always wondered about this question. Anybody who's ever played with Paul McCartney, do you sit down with him at any point and tell him specifically what it meant to you, what he meant to you, or does he just assume it at this point? You don't want to dwell on stuff like that.

When you're with people who are your heroes, you've got to forget all of that. They don't want to be reminded of that, really. You know what I mean? You want to just talk to them like a normal person, you know. And you're sort of iffy about meeting your heroes anyway. I've always tried to avoid my heroes, my whole life, you know. And then I did Sun City, and I got punished. I had 50 of my heroes I had to produce.

Right, for Sun City? On the Sun City record, you know. But I've always been a little bit gun-shy because I had a bad incident when I was a kid. The Rolling Stones came to Asbury Park and Freddie King opened for them, you know, this blues guy. And the kids I was with, they wanted to go

and look and get their autograph, you know. And there was only one hotel in Asbury Park until recently, actually. And I was never a big autograph guy, you know. I didn't really get it. But I said, all right, we're going. I went with my friends. And we're going up and down the hallways, you know.

And there's Freddie King. The door's open. And there's Freddie King. And they were, like, pushing me. Go ask him, ask him, ask him, you know. I'm like, I don't want to ask him. Ask him. All right, all right.

I said, Mr. King, I'm sorry. Go get your autograph. And he's like, well, come here. And I step in the room a little bit. He picks up the pillow on his bed and there's a big gun, like a.45. I swear to God. Oh, my God.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm 12. Oh, my God. And he goes, points to the gun. And to this day, I don't play any Freddie King licks. Ooh. I swear to God. I don't play his record.

That is emotionally scarring. So ever since then, I'm very reluctant to meet my hero. I was reminded of the Danny Kaye, George Carlin story, but Stevens is much scarier. Yeah, at least George Carlin's life wasn't in danger. George Carlin said when he met Danny Kaye as a kid who was his hero, he brushed him off, And he never forgot it. And he learned a lesson that he was never going to treat a fan that way.

With disrespect. So have you ever shot one of your fans? No, but... That's not good. That was rude. Are you intimidated by meeting a comedy hero of yours today? Yeah, sure. Meaning Gilbert?

I am. I was reluctant to do it. You know, let's face it. You know, it's Jerry Lewis, you know, Alan King, Jackie Vernon, and Gilbert Gottfried. Absolutely. Who else matters? You're a Jerry fan, too. I saw The Nutty Professor on your list of favorite comedies

i love that movie yeah i love it uh yeah it is no no bigger jerry lewis fan than that oh yeah i just love that movie now uh can you sing for us uh We've Got a World That Swings? Well, as Buddy Love? Yes. Yeah. He's putting you on the spot. We've got a world that swings. Up at dawn and sleepy and yawning still the taste of wine then i remember you're mine

and i got a world that's fine watch before me routines that bore me punch the clock at and then i remember you're mine and i've got a world that's great alarms half the universe is up in arms so I flip a little too until I'm holding you what's before me root and then I'd like to take you

through this wild wonderful adventure fly like a kite through space. No strings. I don't want to lose that bell and ring. I've got a world that you've got a world that we've got a world that swings. We've got a world that swings. We've got a world that swings. I know the bridge and everything. I'm telling you.

That's impressive. I'm going to send you a link of him singing MacArthur Park with Jimmy Webb. It's going to ruin your week. Yeah. I love that. How about that? I mean. And then the sad ending of, I'm not usually at a loss for words, but if you bear with me, I think I can explain.

Bear with me. I think I can explain. I got a, I don't know how to find it, but somewhere on YouTube, I've only done like two commercials. I did a commercial as Jerry in the wind, a nice professor. You got to find that. Oh, my God. We have to find that. You'll get a kick out of that, yeah.

Yeah. It's for the telecom company in Norway, whatever it was called. They put up, you know, Steve Van Zandt. It'll probably come up. But, yeah. What was your reaction when Scorsese called you up and said he wanted you to play Jerry Vale? Well, you know what? Records I listened to as a kid.

I mean, first of all, he's- Aldila. Out of all of the singers, you know, he is- Yeah. Got the purest voice. I mean, he's like Aldi-la. Out of all of the singers, you know, he is... Yeah. Got the purest voice. I mean, he's like this close to an opera singer. And I had read the book, you know, before even I knew that Marty was doing the movie. It was my favorite mob book, you know?

Oh, really? Yeah, I loved the book. And I read every mob book, you know. Now, we mentioned before, briefly day the earth stood still now here's what i always found weird about that movie the why it's dated in some ways you've got a guy living in a boarding house by himself a strange guy who goes out with a little boy every day and takes him to the park. It wasn't weird in those days. Yeah.

Nobody ever heard of pedophiles. It was not a thing yet. It wasn't a thing. Now you can't watch that movie without, what's he doing with that little boy? When I was 11, I sold a letter to Marvel Comics, and they published my whole address, which they would never do. Oh, my God.

It was 1972. They'd never do that nowadays. You'd never put a kid's address in a... Oh, I saw... Different times. the andy griffith show where there's a little boy who's opie's friend and andy takes out a gun because the little boy wants to hold a gun and learned how to how you fire a gun and he puts a gun in a little boy's hand and andy with his country like oh, you hold on to this part real firm, and then you put your finger around the trigger, and it's like he's showing a little boy how to fire a gun.

This is horrible. Wow. That's pretty mathematical. We go all over the place here, as you can see. There's no rhyme or reason to this show. Well, we would go out after school. You know, you go to the park. You know, nobody's watching anybody.

Sure. Different times. I remember. It's like it felt like when I was little, I walked out the door, and I'd come back. Time to eat. That's it. With all due respect, Gilbert,

who would take you? Well, that was, but that was it. Your parents didn't want you around until dinner. Exactly. Which takes me back to you

and watching the Beatles and watching the Stones and deciding that this had to be a way of life somehow. And your stepdad was a, who you didn't see eye to eye with who was a goldwater republican an ex-marine and an ex-marine goldwater republican which uh we were the generation gap i mean we defined it you know yeah i mean people can't imagine

how weird it was back then you know we were just an embarrassment to our parents and uh really really big conflict and i got thrown out of the house got thrown out of school for having for long hair just having long hair yeah yeah yeah and uh you know we were degenerates you know you know as i've said many times they would have preferred me being a criminal you know at least it was steady work there's nothing wrong being a degenerate you know but it was you know and i thought it was steady work. There's nothing wrong being a degenerate. You know, but it was, you know, and I thought that would be the biggest generation gap in history. I really did. But now I'm starting to wonder about this one right now.

This may be even bigger because it's much more subtle. It is. It's interesting. I mean, we were at war with our parents. Now they live with their parents until they're 45. So it kind of, it fools you. It fools you. But this generation gap is quite big.

And it's one of the reasons why we created the new curriculum, you know, the new high school. Not just high school. Yeah, talk about it. We put it in the intro. It's important work. Very briefly, we created this music history curriculum for three reasons real quick.

One, to keep the art in the DNA of the education system because that's the first thing that goes in everybody's budget. The art just goes. But secondly, we needed to create a new methodology for these kids who are smarter than us and faster than us and have no patience at all. Parents, I mean, teachers have been tearing their hair out trying to get their kids' attention. And we figured out how to do it.

We do it with music. You know, it's, thank God they're still into music, even though they don't buy it, tragically, but they still listen to it. Right. And you just, you know, you can't drag them to our old methods, you know? We were told, you know, learn this now and someday you'll use it, you know? You can't do them to our old methods. We were told, learn this now and someday you'll use it. You can't do that with these kids. They're going to get the answer in 20 seconds on their device.

So we asked them who their favorite artist is, and whoever it is, we traced them back and provided a little context, a little history, and they stayed tuned in. They say Beyonce. And we say, well, Beyonce comes from this woman called Aretha Franklin. And Aretha Franklin comes from Detroit. We talk about Detroit, and she comes from the Gospel Church. We talk about the church and involve the Civil Rights Movement,

and we talk about that. And they stay tuned in because it's a comfortable area for them, you know? That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, you know, and it's working. It's working. We've got 30,000 teachers registered already, and we for them, you know? That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, you know, and it's working. It's working. We've got 30,000 teachers registered already, and we just started, you know? How are these kids, I mean,

you get a couple of kids that surprise you, that know a little bit more about music history than... Well, yeah, some of them know a little bit, but this generation is funny. They don't think about history. I mean, I know it's hard to explain this. When we grew up, you know, again, we had a huge generation gap, but we knew about Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin.

We lament that on this show all the time. Jimmy Cagney. I mean, we knew about our parents and our grandparents' general culture. Sure. These kids don't. They don't. They were, like, born yesterday, and the world was born yesterday. It's a very odd phenomenon and we have to adjust to that. And we figured the bureaucracy is never going

to adjust to it and we're going to lose a whole generation here. So we really worked hard to try and get something that works for this generation and it's working. It's brilliant to use pop culture. Think about how our attention spans wandered in school. Yes. You use your Onlaught stevens analogy yeah if somebody had had come to us that way in school and and somehow educated us through movies through our love of television through our love of music we might have paid attention to exactly we might learn something yeah if they would have somehow to launch any junior i would have been Exactly. I would have been an A student. Yeah. How can people help and get behind it, Stephen?

Teachrock.org. It's free, by the way, for teachers worldwide. Everything's licensed. The music's all licensed and the videos. And I guess there's some way to donate. I should know this, shouldn't I? Teachrock.org is the website. Yeah, it's probably like a way to donate if you want to donate.

But basically, it's all private money. It's no government money, no tax money, no taxpayer money. It's all privately funded, and it's free for teachers. They just sign up, and they use it. And one thing we've talked about a lot on this show is even people who are supposed to know, people who write about show business, write books and articles and talk, and you go, wow, they're getting everything wrong. They don't know. That's why you need your own podcast. Yes. Just straighten the thing out.

We love pop culture history we like introducing younger people to older actors and older stars and you know we had ron dante in here and we had we had jimmy webb and we had tommy james and we had you know paul williams and we have 26 year olds 28 year olds listening to the show they don't know who these people are no but we feel a sense of accomplishment. Believe me, it is. Because, again, they just don't have that natural curiosity about it. Don't ask me why.

Because we did. We did. And even though we may not have even liked it. We may not have understood or liked Frank Sinatra until later. We knew about them. But these kids don't. They just have a certain way of just what dealing with what's in front of them you know it's different it's very different on on the podcast I love when I'll get a message from

somebody who says I had no idea who that was but I've been looking them up Barbara Felden from get smart oh yes yeah I mean I did now we had her on the show and we get mail from people who say i never heard of this show i never heard of this person but now i'm gonna go on wikipedia and i'm gonna look her up and i'm gonna find her work so we feel an accomplishment absolutely for turning on uh you ever hear her record oh i spent that oh how did that go i'm sure you know it charlie charlie fox uh produced that record oh my god yeah the 99 one yeah yeah yeah yeah i i don't remember all i remember is the hook you know 99 it's come up it is it is it has come up on this show everybody had records in those days

everybody you know yeah twiggy you know everybody Everybody in those days. So you took comfort in this idea of a band, that you were, obviously you're saying you got kicked out of the house, you got kicked out of school. You needed what? Some sense of home, some place to belong. Well, the band thing was what appealed to me. You know, I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't interested in Elvis Presley or any of those people, you know. It just didn't occur to me that being in the spotlight, it's all about me, me, me. Nothing wrong with it now.

But back then, it didn't appeal to me. But us, the family, the friendship, the communicating community, which is what bands did, that was what appealed to me. It was just a different way of living life. The gang, the posse, the army platoon. Take your pick, the football team. Part of the club. I think it's human nature to some extent to want to belong to something.

And especially us, we were just freaks, misfits, and outcasts. Didn't want to go to college, didn't want to go in the military, didn't want to work a straight job. I heard you say that about you and Bruce, that there was nothing else you guys could do at a certain point. Yeah, I mean, people think you're so courageous and you're so noble for staying on the path. I'm like, no, we weren't. We couldn't do anything else.

We were losers you know and you know but me and him were the only ones you know in new jersey at the time so that was partly why we became such close friends because uh we both believed in this rock and roll thing a hundred percent which was not a given at that time. It was not a business yet. Sure. And other people went into their father's job, or they joined the military, they dropped off the... There was only about a dozen bands that got out of the garage, you know, and actually played in the local area.

But as soon as they had an option, they took it. You know, as soon as they had something, some other way of making a living, they took it. Except for us, yeah. You guys shared an obsession. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and again, incapable of doing anything that's fit into society. So the Beatles literally saved my life, yeah. That's fascinating.

You know, I would have been a real soprano if not, probably. Interesting. Did you meet any of the other Beatles besides Paul? Just Paul and Ringo. You know, Ringo, I never met John or George, unfortunately. Ringo's great, too. You know, he's amazing. They're both vegetarians, and they both look about, you know, 35.

Yeah, they're vibrant and youthful. Forget it. They look maybe 40 at the most. Really, it makes you really seriously consider what you're eating. I read that George was a favorite Beatle when you were a kid. Is that true? Yeah, everybody had their favorite Beatle. You know, that sounds silly now, but I like that.

I always liked the guy, you know, slightly behind, you know. Uh-huh. This is my natural inclination. I was never getting a spotlight type of guy. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. So you started a band, basically, to have this feeling, to have this connection,

to find a family outside of a place to be. Yeah, and just it became a way to express yourself. It became a way to, you know, get laid, you know, make a few dollars. Although we weren't that popular when

we started, you know. It wasn't, we figured it was going to be like Hard Day's Night. You know, girls chasing you around. But it wasn't. It wasn't like Hard Day's Night. It wasn't. The girls still wanted to, you know, sleep with the football players and the sports guys. What were those early bands?

And did you guys do, did you attempt originals? Did you do covers? No, mostly covers in those days. I didn't write until much later. I got on the oldies, what they call the oldies circuit, which was a very bizarre circuit in the early 70s.

The entire British invasion came, and by that I mean literally there was 10 or 15 British bands that came all at the same time. And the Americans were not even on the charts for about a year and a half. And they put all the heroes out of work. They didn't mean to do that, but that's just what happened. And they all ended up on this thing called the oldie circuit. And they were in their late 30s, early 40s, put out the pastor.

Right. Everybody. Everybody in the 50s. We had somebody on the show who has that story, Neil Sedaka. He was here. And he said he would meet the new major stars. They would be thrilled to see him. But the public, it's like, the hell's neil sadaka well

and the industry really just completely turned their back on them yeah which was just a terrible thing because starting with that that generation in the 60s the audience would grow up with them and stay with them to this day i mean who's the biggest activist of the 60s? It was the Stones and Beatles. Who's the biggest act today? The Stones and the Beatles, you know. It wasn't the case with the 50s guys, with the pioneers who invented it, unfortunately.

Whatever record you had on the charts by 1964, that's all you're going to have for the rest of your life. So if you were lucky to have three or four hits, like a Benny King or somebody like that, you could kind of make it work. But if you had one or two hits, you would need those one or two hits the rest of your life. Who were some of these oldies acts that had been basically put out to pasture

when you went on the... Isn't it the DeVelles you were touring with? I mean, Little Richard and Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley and Jerry Lee Lewis, the Drifters, the Coasters. And the Beatles and the Stones worship these guys. Absolutely. Yeah.

Absolutely. You know, like I said, it was an unintentional consequence. But up until the Beatles, every single record had a saxophone solo. You know, they put 1,000 sax players out of work. Unbelievable. Unintentionally. Yeah, I mean, after that, only the Dave Clark Five kept the sax,

and that's why it was so radical when Bruce put a saxophone in the band. Right. He was making a statement, like, we're going to have a little respect for the past as well as looking ahead to the future. You know, we're going to have one hand in the past, one hand in the future,

and that was a big move at that time. You know, That was radical. We always felt that way. We always felt like we were part of tradition. And proudly so. But I met all my heroes. Sure. Little Richard wound up officiating your wedding.

Yeah, Little Richard was my priest at my wedding. And didn't you say he basically lied and had never? Yeah, he'd never done it. He said, I do it all the time. He lied. Then we picked the shortest sermon, and he just threw it away and improvised. There's a film of it somewhere. I can't find it.

Nobody can find it. How cool to have little Richard presiding over your wedding. I figured if you're going to get married, you might as well have a rock and roll wedding. Percy Sledge sang When a Man Loves a Woman. Oh, Percy Sledge sang too. When he walked down the aisle. Wow.

Yeah. Wow, wow. Yeah, it was nice. The Godfather, you know, the band in The Godfather, you know, outside at the Michael. That was the band, The Godfather band. You used those guys? Yeah. How'd you find them?

You make a phone call, you know. But you took it upon yourself to get involved in the careers of some of those people. Well. You felt you owed them something. I really did feel that number one but number two i was like these people are still fantastic and by the way 50s artists oh yeah and the early 60s artists are very different than everybody that came after in those days you actually had to have talent. I mean, for real. They were singing. You weren't overdubbing and tuning with

devices. You had to sing in tune the first time, every time. And they're just the quality of these guys was just amazing. So I loved producing them. yeah, I brought back whenever I could do it, I would bring them back and put them on our records, you know, or Southside Johnny's records, just to show people that they were still great. You know what I mean?

And also a way of saying thank you, but more just saying, hey, hire these guys. You know, Lee Dorsey, I got him out from under a car. He was working on a car. Ronnie Spector got out of retirement. We love Ronnie Spector. Dara's a big Ronnie Spector fan over there. I just... And, of course, what you did for Darlene.

Yeah, Darlene was a little bit later, but yeah. She just made... We made her first album. It's a few years ago. Inspiring. I always felt like what we do on the podcast is it... There used to be, like island and love boat so these old performers who were put out to pasture by show business would pop up and you go oh they're still

good yeah we've had many of them on this show oh yeah trying to prove that point yeah well and they and they tend to have, you know, they're more iconic. They're more, had more personality usually, you know, even back then. And I, you know,

for Southside's second album, we reunited the Coasters, the Drifters, and the Five Satins. Wow. Then we did two records with Gary Ors Bonds, you know,

who's still fantastic. And Darling Love, and, you know, brought back Chuck Jackson and Benny King on the Gary Bonds album you know just trying to show people how great they still were and it's a shame cuz they got they got shafted really they did only that generation only the guys who invented it you know of all people right cruel twist it is. And I spent my whole life trying to make it up to them somehow. I mean, that's why they're in regular rotation in my format.

You're going to hear Benny King and Chuck Jackson and whoever. It was inspiring, too, with Darlene that you put the call out to songwriters. And what, Elvis Costello produced two songs in 24 hours? He sent me four four songs in in like and within literally two days yeah that's nice to see i mean that's you know i hate asking anybody for anything you know but in that case you know i said you know i i i this is the greatest singer in the world in my opinion and she really is and i was like i gotta have the greatest songwriters write something new for her you know and uh and barry and cynthia yeah barry and cynthia well you know they wrote a classic uh jimmy webb who hadn't you know written for anybody for 30 years you know

uh he says you know what do you want i said i left a special another one was MacArthur Parks, you know? And, you know, Joan Jett, Bruce Springsteen. But Elvis sent me four songs in like two days. He says, you know, pick from some of these, you know? It was nice. And it's a great record. Yeah, I'm proud of that album. It's a great record. It's called Introducing Darlene Love.

Meanwhile, her first hit was He's a Rebel, 1962. And I gotta ask you, jumping to The Sopranos, what was James Gandolfini like? He was just amazing. One of my very best friends, and I miss him every day. You know, he was a character actor, you know? And that's the odd thing about that show. David Chase was just extremely creative in every way, including who he cast, you know.

And so, you know, when you cast a character actor as the lead, it's a different vibe on the set, you know, because he was very, very humble about it. And, you know, he pulled me aside. He pulled me over to a mirror. He said, look in the mirror. Look at this guy. Do you believe they cast me as the lead in this show?

A humility. What's the matter with these people? You know what I mean? And he was serious about it, you know. And just a wonderful wonderful guy and one of the greatest actors

I think ever and he's just getting started it's such a tragedy because he was just I think one of the great actors of all time

you know really really you look at any one of his films even if the film is not that great he's always great well I recommend

Not Fade Away which I just watched again last night and you know and his part isn't enormous but he makes so much of it. I know. He's wonderful in that.

You know, like True Romance. Yeah. The one with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, the name of which is escaping me. It's very good. I'll think of it. Yeah. Get Shorty. He was great in that.

Yeah. But he just was a wonderful guy. Wonderful. Really. It's a big loss. And good to you, particularly under the circumstances, a guy who had never acted before. Well, I didn't know how they were going to react, you know,

because, you know, these people, they work their whole lives. You know, they go to school. They do off-Broadway, you know, and working their way up to TV. That's why I told David Chase in the end, I said, you know, I don't know about this. I feel like I don't want to. I really feel a little guilty taking an actor's job. You know, these guys worked their whole lives.

He said, no, you're not going to take an actor's job. I'm going to write a part in for you, you know. And so, you know, and that was nice. But then Jimmy, right from day day one and the other guys too tony cerrico vinnie pastor uh edie everybody lorraine they just treated me with the utmost respect you know right away that's great one of the crowd and when you played that character you had a facial expression the way you kept your mouth the way you stood the way your shoulders were was that based on any one person or a bunch of people there's a bunch there's a bunch you know i was a fan of the whole you know the whole genre the whole milieu you know so i went

all the way back you know well you're you're a fan of those movies i mean i know you love angels with dirty faces and you love the roaring 20s and which we love all of that yeah yeah i really did i love cagney and uh i use more cagney and lily hammer actually uh but uh you know you just you just uh create this thing in your head you know you don't want to steal things you know too obviously a little bit of this and i just uh i had to create the guy from the outside in you know so i found out where you know john gaudi got his clothes made and went to his tailor and you know did the hair the hair thing and he was a guy who i wrote a whole biography about the guy i know that's fascinating you know the guy was uh grew up with Tony Soprano and kind of just became his right-hand man.

And I kind of used my relationship with Bruce to do the part. One of my favorite lines is in Roaring Twenties where Bogart says to Cagney, he goes, you know, you used to ask me things, now you're telling me. And then Cagney says, so? And he goes, so my feelings is getting hurt. Very good, Gil. Very, very good.

I love those two movies. Yeah, good stuff stuff one of the things i find fascinating is that that how david chase saw you at the rock and roll induction you were you were inducting your friends the turtles into the hall of fame excuse me the rascals yeah did that little that little you wore the old rascals little lord fortnnoy outfit. You did a little bit of schtick. A little bit. And he decided, he saw that, and he decided, this guy's an actor. He just doesn't know it yet. Yeah.

He called and says, you know, you want to be in my new TV show? I was like, jeez, that's nice. You know. No. Not really. He says, what do you mean, no? I says, I'm not an actor, you know. Isn't that a requirement?

He says, don't worry, you're an actor. You just don't know it yet. That's fascinating. I had nothing better to do, so I went down there. You went? I was out of work at the time. Some things just don't change. He saw something in your face, he said.

He thought you had a Pacino look. He thought you had a Michael Corleone kind of quality. Is that right? Yeah, I guess. But we had a very different kind of identity as a rock and roll band. We were kind of the rock and roll rat pack. We really were. And we weren't just faceless nameless side men

you know we we actually had personalities and i played the dean martin role basically the bruce's frank sinatra and clarence was sammy davis on steroids you know right that's a good analogy you know but that was that was really how we were and uh so he saw that that relationship that we had you know and knew there was a you know there's an acting element we're all acting all the time anyway so it's just a matter of degrees but uh yeah he picked up on that sylvia was such a beloved character what kind of mail did you get from people well yeah i mean the the scariest thing really was after the girl, you know. Oh, when you killed Drea DiMatteo's character? Yeah.

Adriana. Right after, yeah, Adriana, that's the character. You know, this poor girl, completely innocent girl, and gets caught ratting us out to the FBI, so I got to whack her, you know, this poor girl, completely innocent girl, gets caught ratting us out to the FBI. So I got to whack her, you know. So I kill this innocent girl, you know. I'm walking down the street. People come up to you.

Yeah, man. She had it coming, man. You know. Disturbing. Right on, brother. I'm like, what's the matter with you? Are you crazy? The girl was totally innocent.

It was a scary thing. Did you get the opposite response too? Yeah, a lot of people were pissed off because that was their favorite character. They were all in love with her. I watched that scene last night. It's a brutal scene. It's tough to watch. That's the toughest thing I ever did.

Did you get a lot of women that thought it was hot that you were killing people? Well... What a question. Let me put it this way. In those days, there were some

mob joints, you know, restaurants, you know. Yeah. And I would go to some of them, you know. And one in particular, which shall remain nameless, was particularly mob-oriented. And, you know, and they were there, you know. And when you see the real thing, it's not funny. It's not romantic. It's not like it's not cool.

It's very scary, okay. The real guys are really scary. And, you know, their wives and their girlfriends would, you know, come up for an autograph or a picture, you know. And, you know, at first, you know, yeah, a picture you know and uh you know yeah at first you know yeah sure you know then you think look you know and look at them how they'll how they're looking at you you know and i just stopped going to those places i mean it was like you know yeah i mean i'm like maybe that was a good idea no no that's it i'm not going i'm not even going near that place anymore well they say mobsters always romanticized actors who played mobsters.

That goes way back. Well, it's a certain type. Yeah. You know, the attractive, the anti-authoritarian aspect, I think, is what it's about. I mean, you know, 100 years ago it was cowboys or whatever. I get it. And it's one of those things where I think it's hard to know now, are the gangsters imitating the gangster movies or are the movies imitating, you know, which one came up with all the cliches?

Well, that was the thing with The Godfather in particular. I mean, the book was a work of genius and the movie, of course, the greatest movie of all time. And there were mobsters learning how to be mobsters from that movie. You know, that's a fact. I mean, by the time we got to Sopranos, they ran an FBI thing, and they did the transcript in the Daily News or the Post of a bunch of mob guys watching Sopranos, you know, commenting on Sopranos.

And they were like, hey, this guy's playing you, and that guy's playing you, and look at this. And they thought we were copying, you know, real crimes. You know, they were committing, and a certain one of us were playing their, you know. Wow. Meanwhile, David Chase was just making the whole thing up. You know, there was no real basis.

But it was funny seeing they were big fans of the show. Thank God, you know. Thank God. And you said how when you saw actual gangsters, could you describe how, what it was to actually see actual gangsters, the feeling. Well, the main thing, you know right away, there are different species of people. I mean, you can see it in their eyes. The eyes are dead. They're just dead.

You know what I mean? I can't even explain to you how that is or why that is, but you can see it in their eyes you know they just don't have that normal look there's a you know uh and uh they just carry themselves a certain way you know it's you know it's exaggerated to some extent in the movies uh and but sometimes it's you know But sometimes it's closer than others. But they just have a certain way they dress, a certain way they talk. And, you know, it's different.

It's very different. And, you know, you don't want to get too close to that world. You know, that's not your world, really. But like I said, we tried not to romanticize that world. I mean, if you look at the Sopranos, you know but like i said we we did it we didn't we tried not to romanticize that world i mean if you look at you know we showed that it's you know it's not the most exciting lifestyle it's a shakespearean tragedy it's not the ruined 20s you know what i mean right it's a you know it's a tough lifestyle and these guys fall into it you know maybe from their relatives or they had no choice you know they're in their neighborhood you know so we tried not to romanticize but at the same time we had a certain respect for it

and i carried that respect right into lillyhammer i said you know i'm not going to do a comedy they wanted to do a comedy at first you know and i'm like no i can't make fun of these guys you know you know i'm making a living you know uh you or less, you know, imitating them to some extent. But I got to do it with respect. You know what I mean? I can't be making fun of them in any way. So the humor that came out of Lilyhammer or Sopranos was out of circumstance. Sure.

But Frank strikes me as a more serious character in a way than Silvio was. Silvio's kind of funny. Well. He's dark. Well, he had fun. Am I wrong? There's a little kind of funny. Well. He's dark. Well, he had fun. Am I wrong? There's a little bit of humor. Well, I think that's wrong in the sense that Silvio had more pressure on him, really.

His job was to protect Tony Soprano. So he had a little bit more. I think he was a little bit more serious, actually. Frankie, the fixerer everybody loved him you know he was the guy in the neighborhood that would take care of whatever the problem was and you know that's why when the attempted assassination happened and he's in shock and he says you know i want to go and witness protection program in lilliham in norway because he was couldn't believe somebody would try to kill him it's a great show people need to find it if they haven't seen it. Yeah, it's the first show on Netflix.

Yes. The very first show. We had Joey Pants here. We had Buscemi here because we love character actors. Dominic, we told you, was here. When you went on set and worked with him, did you go into this and say, look, I've never acted before.

I'm going to be a sponge and try to learn a little bit from each one of these guys. Of course. Peter Rieger is another guy we had here from Sopranos. Of course. And the one, I forget his fucking name all the time, and he's the king of character actors. Dick Miller.

Dick Miller. Yeah, yeah. You know Dick Miller? You know him by face. Yeah, I probably do. Muck of the Blood. All those Roger Corman movies. Oh, oh, oh.

I love Roger Corman. Yeah. But these guys, I mean, we'd like to champion these guys who are maybe not leading men, but are doing. Well, let me tell you something. I mean, you know, I was taking it seriously. And, you know, I was really, you know, going to work at it. But we're doing a table read the first day.

And, you know, you just read through the script, sitting around a table. And, you know, the next day you start filming it, you know. And that was a nice thing. Not every show does that. Maybe they do now. But in those days it was an unusual thing. And it's nice because that's the only time

you're going to see the whole cast. You know, unless you have that's the only time you're gonna see the whole cast you know unless you have a scene with somebody you're never gonna see them again you know so everybody's around the table you know and i'm kind of like uh the whole experience is kind of surreal to me you know what i mean like you know all of a sudden now i'm an actor you know and uh you know well i'm you know kind of there i'm there but i'm not there you know, I'm kind of there. I'm there, but I'm not there. You know what I mean? I'm kind of half there. And, you know, the table, you know, I'm bringing the table.

And I look up, and there is Johnny Ola. Oh, geez. Oh, Dominic. Yeah. And now, you know, the godfather. Sure, sure. I don't have to tell you what that means, right? Sure, of course.

To us, too. And that's when it hit me, you know. Oh, my God, it's Johnny Ola, you know. I'm acting with Johnny Ola. Yeah. You know? And it was just like a real moment of, you know, revelation, you know. of, you know, revelation, you know, that, geez, you know, to be in anything with somebody from the Godfather, you know, was, you know.

Yeah. It was great. Close to Paul McCartney coming on stage. You know what, it's great that you're in touch with that feeling. You know, yeah, but it's, you know, there's certain things that are just, you are just way up there. Now, is there anything, any redeeming traits or factors about Godfather 3? Well, it was tough. The main redeeming trait was the story of the Pope being assassinated, which I think is true. I think that's based on a true story, although it's very controversial. There was a whole book about it.

I think that's true. Which I read, in God's name or something like that. So they had picked up on a very, very interesting little controversy in the church about John Paul II or whoever it was. You know, he was just too much like Jesus Christ. You know, he was just too much with the, you know, enough with the wealth and the gold and, you know, let's get rid of all this stuff. I mean, we're supposed to be like, you know, religious people.

And, you know, and they were like, you know, the bankers were like, let's get rid of this guy so that was an interesting uh kind of plot you know you know a premise for the show you know but uh it was a problem you know they said that they had problems and it's a shame i don't think coppola wanted to do it i think he got dragged into it. He had told the story he wanted to tell. And they kept... Twice. Twice. Two of the greatest movies ever made. And this one really wasn't based on the book.

See, that's where things go sideways. No putzo. It seemed like the people who did Godfather 3 had never seen one or two. Well, there's some good performances. I mean, Mantegna's good. Yeah.

And there are good moments. It doesn't add up. As soon as Robert Duvall wasn't in it, I thought this is going to be a problem. Yeah, that was a step in the wrong direction. I mean, something happened there probably with money. And Pacino started overdoing. He started getting into his big performances.

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes the story's over, and you need to call it a day. Can I ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners? I'm here. Steven? We do a thing called Grill the Guest on Patreon. Luke Simon wants to know, what is your favorite movie that your music has appeared in

or been used in? That's question one. Or I can ask you his second question if you'd prefer that one. Well, my music, there's been a few. I got to say, it has a special place in my heart, it's Home Alone 2, because it's the first time I got a chance to work with Darlene Love after I talked her into moving to New York. And I didn't work with her for 20 years. You know, it was like 20 years in the making.

Because it was hard to figure out what to do with people like that. You know, they're too good. They don't fit into the modern world. You know what I mean? They have this thing called greatness. There's no place in the modern world for greatness. She is transcendent. But, you know, so you couldn't figure out what category,

what record label is going to be interested in her. And Chris Columbus came to me and said, you're going to write a Christmas song for my movie. I said, well, this is the perfect opportunity. You know, it doesn't have to fit in anywhere. You know, you just have song for my movie. I said, well, this is the perfect opportunity. It doesn't have to fit in anywhere. It just had to fit the movie. I mean, the Home Alone movies were terrific anyway, those first two.

But very funny with Joe Pesci, unbelievable. So that's the answer. Yeah, it was the Home Alone 2, yes. And part two of his question is, why did Gilbert never get cast as one of the Jews on Sopranos? And part two of his question is, why did Gilbert never get cast as one of the Jews on Sopranos? Well, they didn't fare so well, as I recall. I'm not sure Gilbert— Jerry Adler, another great character actor.

Oh, no. Another great guy. No, he was our Jew, so he did okay he was our but yeah there was one with the remember the guys with the the hotel and we took over

the hotel yeah and see Gilbert you dodged a bullet yeah you know cause they didn't

they didn't always fare so well you know but I love I love you know the history people don't realize

you know the Jews in the 40s 30s 40s 40s, 50s, just as tough as the Italians. Oh, yeah. Just as tough. And Murder Incorporated and all those guys were a purple gang. Well, Hyman Roth, isn't he based on Meyer Lansky? Yes. I believe he is.

Yeah, but he wasn't one of the tough guys. But they were actually, you know, Benny Siegel. Right, Bugsy. I mean, yeah. I mean, he was a good example of it. But they were very tough. And the most successful mobs, the mob families, always were the Italians and the Jews worked together, you know.

I did a whole study about this. Fascinating stuff. In my spare time, you know. And the cities were this, you know, New York, you know, most notably the Lucky Luciano gang, Cleveland, you know, L.A., Boston, you know, all the major Luciano gang Cleveland you know LA Boston you know all the major cities where the Jews and Italians worked together were always the strongest families it's a little little speaking of aggression and oh and then then there was Peter Peter Falk later may Brelis Oh

murder incorporate yes very Yes, very good. Very good. And that's where the Columbo coat came from. That he kept the coat. He kept the raincoat. See what you learn on this show, Stephen? There you go. Speaking of the mob, your friend Tommy James.

That's a movie that has to be made. He was here, and we talked all about morris levy and what that poor guy went through yeah no that's a good that's a good story it's a great story it's one of the best mob stories in the business incredible book it was so strange like he knew morris levy was a crook and a murderer and everything but he says without him he would have been forgotten about yeah you know in those days it was a strange relationship um and and people later on were right to complain that they got ripped off you know because by the by the you know by the companies but i see both sides of it now you. If you didn't give somebody a reason

to exploit you and to rip you off, so to speak, why should they make you a star? You got ten other kids around the block that can make stars. Well, Brad Garrett's character says it in Not Fade Away. It's called The Music Business. He says it to the boys. This is from a conversation me and David Chase had.

And the truth is, you know, I mean, Chuck Berry carried that monkey on his back his whole life. His whole life he was bitter about being ripped off. And I'm like, you know what? Yes, they should have been more honest with the contracts, okay? But the Chess Brothers, you know, they're selling your singles for what? You know, 69 cents, you know. And by the time they do the payoffs and they do this and they do that,

you know, they're making 20 cents, whatever it is, times what? A million records, two million, you know. Okay, and they shouldn't have done that. But Chuck Berry, with $10,000 in cash in his guitar case before he walked on stage, five days a week for 50 years so who yeah who got ripped off it's hard to do that who got ripped off tommy james said it's like had he he was getting ripped off but had he gone with anybody but maurice levy he would have had one hit song and that would have been his career but that's the

thing you're not if they've been more honest and said listen you're not going to get any royalties Marcel Levy would have had one hit song, and that would have been his career. But that's the thing. If they'd been more honest and said, listen, you're not going to get any royalties. Okay, we're going to take all the royalties, but I'm going to make you a star. And you're going to work for the rest of your life. We'd all take that deal. I'll take that deal right now. Yeah. You know.

Right? Let's talk about- The podcast, yes. Yeah, let's talk about the box. I mean, the box. Which in part you're here to promote. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's my whole catalog. We finally remastered it and put it out.

And 50 extra tracks, you know? And you were like a kid in a candy store going through all that stuff? I had guys finding the stuff. Things you'd forgotten about. Yeah, really. There was stuff I forgot about, a lot of half-finished songs, and demos that I had done for the Jukes that Southside would later sing,

and things like that. Very early stuff, too. Me and Southside had a country blues duo for a while, way before the Jukes. Then we put a song from that. Somebody had recorded it on a cassette in some bar, you know. So we had that and a little bits and pieces. It was nice.

It's a nice box set. Yeah, they sent me one. It's beautiful. Rock and roll rebel, yeah. Seven LPs. Yeah, yeah. A real labor of love. And when we were sitting down, Frank said,

you have an interesting movie poster. Oh, Dr. Goldfinger. And the bikini machine. Yeah, yeah. I love those beach movies. There was like nine of them, right? Something like that. The Frankie Avalon movies?

It's in that family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's part of that crazy family of beach movies movies one of the last ones yeah i think it was and and and in fact uh um uh austin powers uh oh yeah what's uh oh mike myers mike myers took took some things from that you know with the oh that's, that's right, that's right. The breast... The girl bots. That's right. You know. Yeah, the girl bots.

I never made that connection. Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh, no, he's, you know, he had a good eye. You know, he took, you know, a little bit of that. He took an R. Mann Flint a little bit. Oh, R. Mann Flint, yeah. Oh, the fem bots.

The fem bots. The fem bots. Right, that's right. That's what they're called. You've got a little bit. Oh, I remember Flint. Oh, the Fembots. The Fembots. The Fembots. Right, that's right. That's what they're called. You've got a crazy memory. Do you want to hear a little bit? Do you know the Dr. Fibes movies? The Vincent Price movies?

Yeah, yeah. Would you like to hear a little of Gilbert's Vincent Price? Sure. Well, my favorite, of course, the Tingler. You know, because the Tingler was that monster that lived in your spine. And if you got scared and you didn't scream, it would crush your spine. So you had to scream. So the Tingler gets loose in a theater.

And Vincent Price starts screaming in the theater. Scream! Sc scream for your lives the tingler is loose in the theater scream for your lives and then after after it's over they catch the. He goes, we now go back to our movie. Look at Steven laughing. I love that stuff. You ever hear a better Vincent Price in your life? That'd be a great Vincent Price. That's a good one.

Who was the crazy filmmaker who put, you know, electrodes on William Castle? Yeah. With electrodes, whatever. That was called, what was that called when he wired the seats? Oh, God. God. Not a Merjo. A Merjo was the house in Haunted Hill

when they put the thing on the wire. That was the paper skeleton. Yeah, that was the skeleton. They put it on a clothesline and sent it flying into the audience. And he had the coward's corner that if you thought the film was too scary

you could get your money back but in order to do that you'd have to walk down this aisle and a speaker would come on and a light would go on you and go look at the coward, look at him, he's too scared. So then nobody would do that. I run his ads on my radio show, you know,

and I think one of them is like, you know, they sell life insurance, you know, before you go in. Ah, yes, in case you had a heart attack and died. You die, you die, don't make it through the movie, you know. Bob Burns was one of the guys, one of the technicians attack and died. You die. That's right. Don't make it through the movie. Bob Burns was one of the guys, one of the technicians wiring those seats. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

And he used to dress up as... What the hell was the name of that thing? Paul, look. Yeah, what's... Uh-huh. He used to dress up as a monster. Something, oh, something, right? They all had that thing.

It was a Merjo oh and there was oh god what the hell was the name of it god what's what percepto i don't think it was that yeah like there was also mr sardonicus where you had to fill out the card oh the boat they had to vote on his guilt yes percepto vision or you know some some uh was it percepto something percepto was a gimmick where castle attached electric buzzers to the underside of some seat there you go percepto yeah yeah that's when show business was sure joe dante made a great movie about him with john goodman based based on him movie called matinee which is where he plays he plays this kind of larger than life william castle showman also produced rosemary's Baby, made legitimate movies. That's right.

William Castle. Oh. Yeah. Not that the Tingler's not legitimate, Gilbert. I mean, isn't life, like, really boring compared to those days? Really, what happened? What happened? And I remember...

Really, could life be more boring? No. Well, you're right. It was a renaissance period for music as well as movies and television. And then the whole 70s was all of that new wave, the new wave of the new wave. Sure. When the inmates were running the asylum. All of that.

Coppola and Spielberg and Scorsese and Lucas. I remember I met Vincent Price because they used to be on Alan Thicke's show, Pick of the Night. And then years later, I run into him and I said, you probably don't remember this, but we met on the Alan Thicke show. And he says, oh, yes, that was a terrible show. You love your pop culture references, too. You snuck in a Wizard of Oz, you know what I'm referring to, on Summer of Sorcery, on the Gravity Song. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You snuck in a little bit of the Wicked Witch of the West. The monkeys. The armed guards. The monkey guards. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

You like an in-joke or a little movie reference. And the lawyers were nervous. The lawyers get nervous over everything now. Could you imagine them with William Castle? Ari. Yeah, let the lawyers, like, you know. Anyway, it never would have happened. So they didn't believe us at first, but we actually sang that.

We didn't sample it. You just sung it. Yeah. We actually recreated that. The monkey chant. There's a video of the making of Summer of Sorcery, and that's where I saw the Dr. Goldfoot. And you asked me how I knew that.

The poster's on the wall of your studio. Yeah, I was like, how did he get that? In the background. How did he know about that? Yeah, and as soon as I saw that, I turned to my wife and I said, this guy, this is a man after our own hearts. And you also love Palisades Park

by Freddie Boom Boom Cannon. I love it. A song we love. Chuck Barris. I hung out with Chuck Barris for a long time and one of my biggest regrets was losing touch with him before he died. But I used to hang out with him a little bit. He was a dream guest for this podcast.

Oh, forget it. But he was reclusive. Yeah, but I got him out. He'd come out, and I really dug him. He's great. I just lost another friend. I just lost Kooky Burns. Oh, and Kooky Burns died, yeah.

Yeah, just a good friend of mine. I had him hosting my festival. Yeah, we do have some things in common. Silver of Sorcery is a great record, by the way. I want to recommend it to our listeners. Thank you. And it's an homage to, you know, each song, girl groups. I mean, you're always paying tribute to your antecedents.

I am. I want to hear that. I want to hear a little bit of the roots in there somewhere. I can't relate to it. You know what I mean? There's a little Spectre in there. There's Sam Cooke tributes on there. There's some Temptations.

Curtis Mayfield. Curtis Mayfield, you know, Smokey Robinson, always. That album was a particular gift because I had no intention of coming back into the business, honestly. We did the Soul Fire album two years earlier just for fun, songs I'd written for other people. And then that went over so big. We said, well, let's tour. And we're touring.

And then halfway through the tour, some new ideas came to me. And that album really was a gift. I think it's great, too, that you still get excited when you discover a band, when you discover a song. As jaded as a guy like you could be after all these years in the music business. You know, it's remarkable. You're still excited. It is.

It is. I feel when you hear a great song, your feelings don't change about that. We counted the number of new bands we introduced over the last 17 years now, 18 years. Over 1,000 bands. Over 1,000. And they all have at least one great song. That's great.

And it's the kind of song, hear it and you and and you get equally inspired and motivated just like you always did and uh that is nice you know i mean it's amazing it's the same 12 notes same four chords you know how do people still come up with new things it blows your mind really you know when i write you. I don't take anything I write for granted. I'm like, every time you write a song, it could be the last song you're ever going to write. Because no matter how much craft you know, and I've been working my whole life on the craft, it's always a little bit of, it's like anything else, I think, like a great comedy routine. It might be a good movie or book,

there's a little element of mystery, you know, combined with the craft. You know, no matter how good you are, there's that little thing you don't quite understand, you know, that comes into something that's great, you know. You don't know where it comes from, you know, and you wish you could. That little bit of stardust that makes that thing. You know what I mean? And you wish you could capture it and own it, but you can't. It's a magical performance sometimes.

You can't predict it. I like that you're not a snob about music. There are rock people and rock fans who are a little elitist. I mean, I'm reading your Twitter feed. You're talking about you love the Paul Revere and the Raiders and Jay Guile's Band and Leslie Gore. You understand and you appreciate all kinds of music, bubble gum and British Invasion and pop and Top 40 and everything.

Great is great. Peter Noon's coming in here on Friday, by the way, speaking of British Invasion. He's great. I'm trying to get him into the Hall of Fame some people are going to be tough to get in it's a shame because they never made those serious records that the journalists

kind of appreciate I'm having trouble getting Jay Giles Band in doesn't make any sense but they get in eventually well yes I hope so but the Rascals were tough to get in like I said in doesn't make any sense but they get it eventually oh well yes i i hope so but uh the rascals were tough to get in like i made i made like i said in my in my speech you know because they dress funny and right and poor vinerators same thing they deserve to be in you know they got six of the greatest rock records absolutely you know and uh and mark lindsay did

good solo work yeah yeah but you know you know, Peter Noone is terrific. And by the way, if you ever see his show, if he comes around. He said at the Iridium, we're going to go see it. Go see him. This week. Very entertaining. Very entertaining. I mean, he's been entertaining since he was a kid.

I know. Before he was even in a band. I mean, every time I see his show, he's just one of the greatest entertainers in the business to this day. And a bunch of great songs. What about the Monkees? Will they see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Well, that's a tough one. That's another challenge.

That's a tough one. That's a tougher one. I don't know. I don't know. You can make an argument for it. Sure. But that's a tough one. But I think, you know, I remember Herman's Hermit's producer, Mickey Moe, was talking about, I don't know if it was true or not,

but he left town at one point and they put out Henry VIII, one of the more comical records, against his wishes. And he said, it's going to kill you. It's going to kill you it's gonna kill you it's gonna kill your career you know and uh you know who knows if that's true i mean you can ask him but but um there was certain you know and peter has a natural inclination to be funny he's a he's a funny guy you know uh those guys were entertainers whether they grew up in the British music hall I know I know that's a different sensibility

it was just like at that moment you know it's a reason why they're not taken seriously you know and it's a shame because it's not right

and they got they got a dozen great records you know I agree so hopefully they'll get in someday well do you want to

let this man go home and you want to sing more Jerry Lewis with him let me plug Summer of Sorcery again which is just wonderful our listeners gotta get it it's a fun album thank you I'm very proud of it

Tino Puente tribute on there and it's a party record it's the first time in my life I ever made two records in a row with the same band. You know, both Soul Fire and Summer Sorcery were the same band, my touring band. The greatest musicians in New York. They stuck with me for like three years. It was amazing, you know. So that was really, I give them the credit, honestly, for sticking with me and giving me that foundation to make something like Summer Sorcery.

And, yeah, and a new, you know, the catalog finally came out. People have been asking me to remaster it. Of course. And the box set is called Rock and Roll Rebel, the early work. Yeah, and it's like I said, all of the five solo albums plus Sun City. There's going to be a special Sun City video thing we're going to do next year with all of the extra takes. A lot of those guys are no longer around,

and we have great interviews with a lot of people. Miles Davis on down. We didn't even get to talk about Miles Davis and Sun City, but next time, if you come back and play with us again. Yeah, I'm in the neighborhood. We want to thank Winston Simone for setting this up. And Ken. We want to thank Ken as well.

Winston and David. Ken Weinstein. And I want to thank your assistant, Louis, for sending me that great box set. So that's where my copy went. That son of a bitch. And you're not getting it back. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's

Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the man who says that when Jews and Italians get together, they make excellent mobsters and hitmen. Stephen Van Zandt. That was your takeaway?

Yes, that's what I learned from Stephen. It's the truth. Stephen, this was a joy. Thank you so much. My pleasure much my pleasure my pleasure life is dull it's nothing but one big lull

then presto you do a scull and find that you're reeling she sighs and you're feeling like a toy on a string And your heart goes ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding How could that funny face that seemed to be commonplace Project you right into space without any warning they'll know if it's morning, night time

winter or spring what's the difference ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding she takes your hand this captivating creature and like it's planned

You're in the phone book Looking for the nearest preacher Life is swell You're off to that small hotel And somewhere a village bell Will sound in the steeple Announcing to people Love's the loveliest thing.

And the bell goes ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding. She grabs your hand This captivating creature And like it's planned you're in the phone book, hunting for the nearest creature. Life is swell, you're off to that small hotel, and somewhere a village bell will sound in the steeple. people announcing to people who loves the loveliest thing and the bell goes ring-a-ding-ding

ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding ring-a-ding-ding