Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Tales from "The Carson Podcast" with Mark Malkoff (and Phil Rosenthal)

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

In connection with this week's "Fun For All Ages" episode about Johnny Carson's 100th birthday, GGACP revisits this 2019 interview with comedian-historian and host of "The Carson Podcast," Mark Malkoff and Emmy-winning writer and producer (and lifelong Carson fan) Phil Rosenthal. Also in this episode: The flamboyance of Monti Rock, the “magic” of Uri Geller and Johnny locks horns with “Saturday Night Live." PLUS: Mark (finally) lands Doc Severinsen! And Phil discovers the infamous “Jack Frost” sketch! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs

with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at OnePeloton.CA. Come of that, Franks, colossal obsessions. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions

with Phil Rosenthal and Mark Malkoff. You like the way he says your name? It's okay. It's okay. The Malkoff falcon. The Flying Malkoff is my favorite act on Ed Sullivan. Yeah, they were really good. They were prolific.

Mark has been, Phil has graciously agreed to stick around for 25 minutes. I think we have, how much time are you giving us? I actually can't get up. And Mark is here. Mark has done the show before. He is the host of the wonderful Carson podcast. Phil has been on that show. So is Gilbert.

Gilbert has been on the show. I was on the show, and the last time I was on, he ends the show, and he's wrapping up his stuff. He says, oh, I just want you to watch one thing. And he showed me a clip of Carson's monologue where he mentions me in a monologue. And his jaw dropped? He can't believe it. I mean, Gil's like, can I get a copy? Can we watch it again?

And I was like, of course we can watch it again. And then I was able to get, yeah, Dara, a clip through the Carson people who have been very, very nice. But, yeah, it was one of those things where I asked you if you thought Johnny ever mentioned you and you said you didn't think so or you weren't sure, but you didn't think so. But the context. Yeah. Yeah. And this is why I hate the Jew. Oh.

Oh, those Jews say, they've been holding me down for years. Because you were getting so much press. You were getting so. Hey, oh! I'm with you, Johnny. Yes. You see what you've wandered into, Mark? I, you know, I'm just going to take it all.

Nothing worse than Jews, Johnny. Nothing worse. You know my agent's name, Goldberg. Hey, oh! That's a Jew. Bombastic Bushkin was a Jew. Yeah. You are right, sir.

He still is one. He still is one. I'm pretty sure he, yeah. You know, I've not known Gilbert to be starstruck, but he was in this particular case. With Bushkin? No, with the fact. that Carson mentioned him. Oh, yeah.

I mean, for Gilbert to actually, I think he was like, the one time he was out of character, well, you were out of character a little bit, but you just, yeah,

I couldn't believe that you actually cared about something. Yeah. I'm just joking. I was joking about that. You've heard about my parenting skills. Yes, I heard.

You're going to get better. There's always room to improve. I heard you interviewing Phil about his Carson experiences. You talked about the one night, I think it's only, one night that Ed was bombed on air? Yeah, that was true.

That was the one time. It was definitely a running joke. I remember that clip. I saw that clip. It was a running joke that he was always bombed, which wasn't true. And it was the one time where Joan Embry was going to be, was a scheduled guest on that. And Johnny at one point, just says, you know, you're not fooling anybody. Because Ed basically says he's like, you know, I went to see Joan Embry, Doc did, you never saw it. And he's like, Johnny says, it's okay.

It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. Ed, it's fine, and he's, like, laughing. And we always imitated this in the room. Ed. Oh, Raymond Ryder's room?

Yeah, Ed was like, but don't say. And he just dragged, that's it. The end of the line. That clip, it showed an evil streak to Johnny Carson in that he was taking advantage. He let him hang himself. Yeah. I wouldn't make the argument that. Ed was the one that was interjecting.

Carson was, if you watch it, was trying to introduce Joan Embry, and Ed kept interrupting him and chiming in on things. And, yeah, that's when Johnny just kept trying to do his intro. But, yeah, I guess maybe he enjoyed that a little too much. I don't know. Yeah, you could see he was enjoying it. There was a roast where Johnny is saying hi to everybody on the dais, and he says, Ed, you big bag of shit.

There's also that ad he does for a feminine hygiene product? Yes. Now, let me tell you what happened. Johnny, do you know about this? No. Do you want to set it up? You can set it up. Well, you set it up because you know it better than I do.

What Johnny would do is he would get these advertisers and he would make these internal videos on the side of the Tonight Show that would only be for the company. And, you know, back then it was mostly men. So we would go very off color. Yes. So he was talking, was it, what was he talking about when he was doing the tampon? Was it a tampon? It was a feminine hygiene spray.

And he starts riffing and saying stuff we can't say, well, probably could say it here. He would say it on this show. He said, cunt away. Oh, great. It was actually that off, I think. Yeah, something like that. But, no, he would do, there's another, there's a recording of it. There's another one online, but he would do, yeah, he would do it.

These people would love it. There's no YouTube. They knew that no one was ever going to see this. But a couple were leaked. But, yeah, that was like the one time where Carson would break. I'm amazed. Phil Rosenthal didn't know that story. That's a good story.

It's floating around out there. Now, did Jonathan Winters ever confront Johnny Carson on blatantly stealing? Oh, very good. We talked about this. Yeah, we talked about this. To my knowledge, I think nobody confronted him. And I think that when we were talking or somebody that if the guess was, is that people were too nervous because they didn't want, they wanted to keep doing the show. I mean, Steve Allen, with Karnak, he was doing a bit, which, you know, Johnny thought was a,

he said it was an old vaudeville act and um but everyone was too like Jonathan Winters loved going on Carson near the end he didn't do it that much but no one confronted him as my knowledge like did um who like I mean wasn't Art Fern sort of a Gleason thing too oh yeah and Gleason went on once

but he never and Reggie Van Gleason it's uh what's it was like original Van Gleason right no it was it 100% and Aunt Blabby of course and there was one of others to care it was one of the smothers brothers I forget but he was doing something I just think that Johnny was so powerful back and it was the only game that no one's going to risk not getting booked on that show.

Actually, to defend Johnny, I think he loved those bits and wanted to do them. So they were homage. It was like an homage. I don't think even homage didn't even enter into it. It's like we're all in show business and we're all playing. And so he wanted to play too. I know that I'm the guy who's supposed to just ask the questions, but I want to play too. and that's why he would go and do

I think that's what that was the spirit of it as I took it at the same time I'd be pissed if I was Jonathan Winters and you're doing my act I find it strange that Carson would do occasional interviews that to my knowledge

no one ever called him out on it like just asking him you know you're doing these characters that have been done before and nobody ever challenged him on it in the press because he would do he would occasionally do these interviews and he didn't like doing interviews

but yeah that's isn't that amazing that nobody would brought it up to him or no critics that I'm aware of ever. Maybe behind closed doors, but I doubt it. Jonathan Winters is kind of a loose canon. Oh, he was the best. You're going to imagine him saying something. Oh, my gosh. You never know, yeah, maybe him, but he was, oh, my gosh, was he funny on Parr and Carson.

But he told me, when I was on the phone with him, that Far Carson was the best, because somebody I was with thought it was par, and he's like, no, Carson 100% was the host. Yeah. The best. You finally got Doc. You've been doing the show for how long? and you finally got Doc Severson. I've talked to him on the phone a bunch of times.

I heard the show. It wasn't bad. Well, I was going to say, let me tell you about this. Let me tell you. His memory is good. So I've talked to him on the phone for four years trying to get him to do this. And he just, for whatever reason, he's like, just email this person and it never happened. So finally, the very wonderful Jeff Sotzing, his Johnny's nephew, who should be a guest here.

I mean, he was a producer on the Tonight Show. He's the one that told Doc. And then I'm at the gym. okay, and I see that it says Doc Severnson on my cell phone. So I get off and I'm huffing and I'm huffing and he's like, Mark Malkoff. I'm like, yes, Doc, what's going on?

He's like, I'm ready. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to come to Tennessee, we're going to sit down and record. He's like, no, you don't understand, we're doing it right now. And I said, see, dirt digger? And I said, and I said, Doc, I'm at the gym. He's like, well, every good reporter has a pencil and paper. And I said, Doc,

I'm not a reporter. And what I said is doc You know I'll get on a plane I'll come see you He's like no we can't do that He's doing better now He's tours but he was having

Some some health issues at the time And I was like okay We'll do it in two days over the phone Which I didn't he's like no We're doing it right now And I was like okay doc We'll do it Can I have 20 minutes?

He said sure So I sprint home sweating I'm interviewing Doc Without a T-shirt With I just sweating And I just a little research a couple years ago, and I printed it out. Luckily, I had it, and I just winged it.

I just winged it, and he's a really nice man. I really like him. I think it was just not meant to be, but I finally did get Doc Severnson, which is not an easy. None of that came across. It came across quite naturally. Yeah, I don't usually interview people just in, like, my shorts, but things happen. And you do, you listen to this show, you've been on the show. I love it.

He does deep dives. I love it. You got Uri Geller. You got Sir Mottie Rock. Oh, gosh, in Vegas. He was an interesting character He did two hours on a guy who parked Johnny's Carver. You should get it.

It's fascinating. Monty Rock. Did Monty Rock have enough career to talk for 90 minutes? Oh my gosh, absolutely. I mean, Trevolta. He was in, wasn't it was Saturday Night Fever? Was that it? I can't.

I remember his hit single. Disco text. Monty Rock was on, well, he was like practically irregular on Merv. Remember him? Yeah, he lived on Griffin and did Carson appearances. I mean, all the time. I think he did he told me he did X amount of Carson

appearances and I kind of was like are you sure he's like well those are reruns as well so it was cut down in half but yeah he did a lot dozens and dozens of appearances and you got Pete Barbeauty I mean you went for the deep dives you didn't find the potato chip lady you know what she does not alive anymore but I

just found out that no excuse you know what I found out yesterday the POCA lady in the anniversary clips the POCA lady what's her name she's still alive so I'm going to try to get to her Fascinating. No, she had like, yeah, the accordion. I always felt like, I mean, to me, or Geller,

was he just struck me as a showman like, you know, David Copperfield or anybody. Yeah, it was his act. And, yeah, and it was his act. And I felt like Carson just, like, really just went to fuck him over. Johnny Carson, if anybody was claiming that they did something, and Kreskin was telling me this story about, How during a commercial break, Orson Welles said, I'm a guest hosting on Monday, and I'm going to do a Creskin.

And Johnny said, what did you say? He's like, I'm going to do a Creskin. And this is what Creskin told me. And I did the research, and it is true. That Monday, when Johnny was off, he snuck into the studio and nobody could tell Orson Wells to watch him. And he had a stooge in the audience, and that's how he did the trick. And Johnny, at that point, he's never doing the show again, and he never did the show. Johnny, was that pure about... Oh, yeah. he was like that with magic because he was carcinician talk to james randy i mean anybody that would claim

in retirement he'd watch larry king with sylvia brown any psychics he was fascinating because he didn't believe any of them i mean he he was just a curious curious guy and uh like he'd put james randy on as the first guest i mean the a lister would go um after him and he just any time there was something he didn't think was authentic he would politely challenge it i would say with he was with gellar he was he was definitely polite. Like, Carson was always polite on his best manners. He would actually ban people from the show. People that are surprising if they were not polite.

I mean, that was one of the most important things. But, yeah, the Geller appearance is hard to watch. Like who? Who got banned? Okay, so a bunch of people got banned. I'm only going to mention a few people. Rex Reed did the show dozens and dozens of times. Still around. Yeah, I see him on the Upper West Side.

So what happened with him is Doris Day was on. And I watched the club. I studied these, by the way, the last appearance. when they are not allowed back. And he takes like a minute and it's just conversing with Dora's day and not acknowledging Carson. And then the camera shows Johnny

and he's like staring into the camera, like what's going on. And a lot of times Johnny looks like he's joking and he's not upset. But I study this stuff and I can tell. And he was so upset that Rexery never did the show again. Bizarre. I remember hearing a story. It's like Charlie Callas used to be like on just about

every other Carson's show. He did the show a lot. A lot. And then one day they were, the producer was talking with Carson and saying, okay, we're lining up for next week. I guess we can have Charlie Callis back and he, and Carson just goes, no, we've had him enough. That was very similar. That was cold. That was very similar to Rich Little, who did the show 80 sometimes, guest hosted and went on the show. And it was Rich Little that one day they were just like he's done our mutual friend Peter LaSalle

told me that it was just like it was just so repetitious he would always do the same and I like Rich Little he's been so nice to be here he does basically they said that he would do the same impressions every time he was on

it was basically the same thing and I said to Peter but the audience loved it he said yes that they loved it but we felt it was repetitious and if you will notice shortly after Rich Little was not being booked

Johnny started doing Reagan because that was Rich Little's thing and if you look at the timing because I said I was talking to Peter I was talking to Rich Little I said studying this to me

it looks like the timing is this that they got they got rid of you and then just right away Johnny did the Reagan thing because that who's on first bit where he was Reagan I take back the thing I said before

about he just wants to play yeah right yeah fuck you no that's cold yeah that's yeah the other person

on that's that is yeah whose job was that obviously Johnny didn't do the, the throat cutting. Whose job was it to get on the phone? Or did they just ghost? They just ghost them. There's like Peter LaSalle, who, again, were friendly with, would tell me it was so hard for him sometimes to go out to restaurants.

Because you had all these, like, Jack Carter, all these people, like, you know, like, why am I not getting booked? All the older comics and stuff. Wow. Yeah, it was definitely hard. There's never a reason? Like, they never know the reason? There's not a reason. They went down to 60 minutes.

That's hard. And then they buck Henry stopped. But I will tell you this, I couldn't believe this, but it's true, and I did the research as well. He loved Carl Sagan. He was one of the guests where Johnny would take Carl Sagan out to dinner. They would be on the phone and the dressing. Johnny was into astronomy and just really curious. And he stopped doing the show in 1986, and I always wondered why Carl Sagan decided to stop doing the show. And it wasn't.

I looked at the appearance because somebody tipped me off. It was an NBC publicist. and he corrects in the middle of the interview and Johnny's all about being polite and manners Johnny says something and Carl Sagan interrupts him and corrects him on something and you just see Johnny kind of like make a small joke at it

but there's something in his eyes there's something in his eyes and that was it I mean he was never on the show again I mean the audience would not be able to tell Welcome to we hate Johnny Carl I think you know what I think that's why

listen man I think that's why Dave Letterman would always say Everyone was so nervous over there because you didn't want to be the guy. They'd hear these stories about these guys that would come in and you just never, never knew. And if it's one little thing, you were gone. He was kind of like, I guess, Ed Sullivan used to have that. Well, he had absolute power, and he wielded it. Yeah.

But the politeness was one of his top things. Is this true about Freddie de Cordova that Johnny requested some time at the end of the show to talk about his son? Yeah. That was... You know the story? Yeah, you can tell it. You told it last time. You know it.

What happened is Rick Carson was a photographer and he died and oh my gosh. I mean, Carson didn't do the show and rightfully so for like a month or so. Somebody I've heard when he walked in that first day back before the Tonight Show, he's just, Johnny, and just like, people couldn't believe how they questioned whether he could do the show that night. and he went out and at the very end he knew it was built into the show they did a few minutes to set up talk about his son and

passing and thank people that have written him letters and really emotional and he wanted to show some of his son's artwork for photography and that did get on and what happened is and Bill Zamey's another guy that has studied this too you can see this one little look

Carson off camera is where when he was setting up the whole that the photography over the photography that Fred de Cordova I've heard two versions one he gives it the rapid up signer

or he gets on the phone with Bobby Quinn or Bobby Quinn Johnny Carson I will say this talking about his son I will say this they did not edit that show

almost ever it was done in real time unless Delores got sick in the middle of everyone and collapsed on the floor when she was guest hosting they would stop

but almost never would they stop but something like that I mean once he did that Jeff Sond I told me it was one of the rare moments he actually saw Johnny upset. I mean, people I talked to with Carson, his assistant I talked to for five years. When you say upset, do you mean emotional?

Yes. Or do you mean angry? Angry. Yeah. And just really hurt. And the thing with Carson, and I think you guys know this, I know this because I've done the research, is once Johnny felt that you had wronged him or that there was something unfair or you weren't loyal to him, the relationship was over. Joan Rivers. It was over.

We can talk about the river. The Rivers thing, though, has way more than what the public knows about. I mean, there's, I mean, she, there's a lot more to it. Peter LaSalle, she tried to get Johnny's producer, Peter LaSalle to come with her to fuck. She was try to steal Johnny's producer. And also, after she did her press conference, she started saying all these things about how my ratings were higher than Johnny's and all these things. Barry Diller told me, he told me that he told Joan, you have to tell Johnny. you have because she always said Fox wouldn't let her

and for whatever reason and it's like okay Johnny's cue card guy he has a company and he also did the cue cards for Joan Rivers show and he went to Johnny and John they was like lost in translation he said Johnny I have this this opportunity to do cue cards

for Joan Rivers or late night show in Fox and Johnny said oh you want to do Joan show go right ahead and was like really upset he's like no Johnny you don't understand it's my company I'm loyal to you I'm going to stay here, but my company, other people would have an opportunity to do Joan's show. He's like, oh, they have to. Oh, that's great. No, they should do it. And it was all about how they went about it. And they sat him down. I have this opportunity to do something. And he was all

about that. But again, if he perceived any disloyalty, you were done. I mean, I've talked to these people before and it was, yeah, you weren't coming back. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal podcast after this. It's the matcha or the three ensemble Cado Cephora of the Fats that I've been to denichy, who energize o'clock? Mm, it's the ensemble. The format standard and mini-regrouped, that old abem.

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So, Phil, we established that as a kid you would lie in bed. To make sure your parents didn't know, you'd turn down the brightness on the TV. You'd had the little TV in bed. I can barely see it. Right. To sneak the covers. A five-inch black-and-white TV under the covers with me.

Some boys had Playboy magazine. I had this. See, now, I used to do that with the TV for old monster movies. There you go. You'd sneak a little TV into the bed with you and turned down the... Well, I mean, we had the one TV. Did you like being scared or they weren't scary? They were just fun.

They were fun. Yeah. And it's like there was the one TV we had that was in the living room. And I would turn it on. I was practically pressing my nose against the screen to hear it. Because you don't want them to hear. Yeah. And I would watch, oh, one time I remember I was watching The Invisible Man with Claude Rains.

And you're going, I can't see it. And at first my mother came out in the middle of the night, and she was telling me to go to sleep, and I didn't want to. I wanted to watch The Invisible Man. And I remember she made me a plate of crackers and butter. and a glass of milk. Wow. High living at your house. Yeah.

Yeah. You eventually got caught by your parents sneaking Carson shows. I did. Yeah. They beat me severely. Now why don't you tell us those stories? One beating was so bad. Who were the must guess?

I mean, did you just watch every night regardless? Or was it like Rickles or Steve Martin? I think there was a gold tier and the king was Rickles. and then Bert Reynolds Rodney Rodney Buddy Hackett you know

the ones you knew it was going to turn into a party You did what I did which was go through the TV list and you're like who's going to be on That's right

But Burr Reynolds you were never disappointed I remember That's true With Rodney it was like He was doing a TV special Every time

It was I heard To correct me if I'm wrong That he was really annoyed When Bob Hope dropped by Yeah

I don't think he had a lot of love for Hope He was definitely still It's Bob Hope But you know Carson could have easily said We're not booking him anymore But he said it's Bob Hope we have to It was also It was also the company

It was NBC Yeah They were there I'm taping across the hall And he was there to promote The special that was going to be on the next night He's also a stockholder By the last appearance though

I mean he was having trouble hearing Johnny And it was just hard with the communication, and there's a bunch of reasons why Carson retired, and one of them is because he didn't want to be, you know, he thought Jack Benny, and especially Bob Hope, stuck around too long. But there's a, the other reasons, when it went to 1235, 1135, rather he was furious and he felt that slighted, those five minutes. And then the other, another key thing was Robert Smigel, Saturday Night Live sketches where they, they show Johnny is out of touch. Oh, the Carson? Yeah, I mean, the Carson. He actually liked that. Oh, yes. With Phil Harmon Garston. He liked... Dana Carvey? Yeah, he actually liked the Carcinio one. He liked the Carcinio one, but there was one in particular

because of music rights, it's not online, but I remember watching it. Who was doing Carson? Dana Carvey. Dana Carvey. And Phil Hartman. So the moment he saw

that he was being made fun of by the younger generation, he was like, I'm out of here. Yeah, Leno was telling Carvey that, yeah, he was walking through the hall once and Johnny, it's like, if they're going to make fun of me, I'm, you know, I'm going to leave.

And it was... Wow. The sketches, and I like Robert Smigel, and I think he's probably the greatest sketch writer ever. He's brilliant. But, you know, it was one of those things where Lorne Michaels would get calls. You know, he basically gave his writers free reign. And Rick Ludwin would, you know, try to talk him out of it, be diplomatic. But Rick Ludwin would have to go down at the basement and tell Johnny, you know,

that they might be doing a sketch. They're going to at least do a dress with one of your sketches. And he said, I don't find them funny. but go ahead. You know, we make fun of people, but I don't find them funny. Wow. But the Carcinio one was fine, but the other one was, it was Arsenio Hall, Chris Ruckus Arsino Hall saying, there was something, oh, Johnny's looking at the card and he says, it says here

that your ratings are higher than us and you're very well close to taking over our show. And it was that thing right there wasn't true, and that's what infuriated Carson. Wasn't he sore at SNL from the get-go because the best of Carson got bumped from Saturday nights, and he was probably making money on those. Carson didn't want to give up Saturday. Remember the reruns on Saturdays before SNL? Yeah, Carson's whole thing. Best of Carson. Carson thought that the show was, that there was actually too much. It was too much. So the only reason SNL was there is because of Carson and Dick Ebersol and Lauren Michaels had to fly 27-year-old Dick Ebersol, 29, Lauren, they get in Carson's office and Carson just

wanted to make sure that the host wasn't going to be doing a political monologue, that they were going to have the same type of music. And once Carson found out that they were not going to do, like they were going to have rock and roll and stuff, which is Carson and recticorder of it, that not their thing, that Johnny gave the blessing. And then once New York Magazine came out with Chevy Chase, and it's not Chevy's fault where it said, uh, the rumor, like this is going to be our success for a little, we're talking about him being Johnny's successor. Johnny did not like that. He said he watched it. Yeah. I mean, the press, you know, he would read the press. He would read Tom Shale's reviews.

He would read the books that were not nice to him. And he, I don't understand why somebody would do that. But yeah, he's an interesting guy. He's definitely not what, uh, Joan Rivers or Bushkin. Um, he's definitely complicated men on different levels. But, um, just from talking to hundreds of people that knew him. And he was. In retirement, everyone thought he was J.D. Salinger, but he was out with you having lunch. Phil had lunch with him. He was with the writers having lunch. He was with Dave Thomas having lunch. He was kept in touch with a bunch of staff members from New York. He would get together and email with them. But you had the lunch with him. He was completely gracious and great. And I couldn't believe that I was getting to meet him. I walk into the office and it's wall-to-wall magazine covers, one magazine, him on the cover. TV guide wall to wall floor to ceiling

his power TV guide it's unbelievable I asked his assistant who was his favorite guest you know the answer I do when I talked to her and it was actually

I think Jeff Satsig's assistant because she said that never happened so I don't know it was Johnny's assistant who was his favorite guest I couldn't believe it at the time Randy Travis how bizarre I asked her about that

she said now It must have been, there were a couple of assistants. There were so many guests that got I'm excited, like Steve Martin. Well, of course. I would have thought like Pete Fountain, Tony, Buddy Rich. He loved that music. Buddy Rich. I thought it was great.

He loved having, I don't, I couldn't come on to her. She said, my hand to God. Maybe, yeah, maybe she denies it. I don't know. But, yeah, you wouldn't think with Randy Trevice, but yeah, he was. I know he loves Steve Martin. He did. And they were still keeping up the poker game up until Johnny had sick.

With Chevy, Chevy was in that poker game. Oh, yeah, they were totally fine. I mean, they actually spent time together. They were fine. It was just, as you noticed, nobody in the original cast of SNL went on when they were on SNL, other than I think Chevy, but he wouldn't have Gilder Radnor. He did not like the show. They made fun of him in the 70s, and that's why. And then Dana Carvey got banned from the show because of the Smigel sketches that he participated in that he didn't write.

And, yeah, no one from SNL was allowed, except I think Dennis Miller was allowed one time after that, but everyone else from SNL was not welcomed. You know what? You can't be the old guy who just doesn't like the noise the kids are making. Yeah. You know? He took that personal. He took that personal. By the way, there's things that certain younger people do in comedy that isn't my thing also.

Right. Of course. But that's how God made it. Yeah. And we're supposed to, you know, be replaced. He had a thin skin. He had a chaplain at the same problem. Of course.

It always got me when you'd see, like, Bob Hope and. and Lucille Ball on a special, and they'd be doing a sketch where they're dressed up as hippies. Right. And they'd be that. Making fun of the kids. In beetle wigs. Yeah.

Oh, they're so out of it. One of your listeners told me to watch the Bob Hope special, the one from 1976 was it called Joy? Joys. We're going to send it to film. And I watched it. Oh, you got to watch this. I watched it.

It's a whodunit where he basically just got everybody, I mean, Jamie, Anyone who was alive. Jerry Colonna, everybody who was alive and threw them into this thing and there's a murder that happens at Bob Hope's mansion. And they have to find the kill. Can laughter. And it starts off with the funniest joke is the title because at the time, the biggest movie in the country was Jaws. So this is comedians.

It's joys. J-O-Y-S. That's horrible. Yeah. And of course, to give it the little J-S water motif, The dead body is found in a swimming pool. Who's their show was this? It's a Bob Hope special.

It's so clumsy. It's God awful. You must see it. It's the clumsiest thing. And you've seen Jack Frost. You've seen the where he's propped up. He's doing the Christmas special. I'm telling you, when you, when you get out of here, I'm telling you, when you go look up Bob Hope, Jack Frost, he's singing.

He's dressed up as Jack Frost with a little pointed beard and an elicles. Yeah, and an elf's. How old is he? He's got to be 86. And Dolores is doing the heavy lifting. She's singing. You've seen this? No.

You've got to see it. It's on YouTube. You have to. Okay. And it's like, it looks like Dolores's revenge for all the times that Bob Hope fucked around on her. Oh, my God. It's look, because Bob Hope.

looks like a corp. Yes. You'd swear they dug him out of the ground and nailed him against the board. But he had three shows left in the deal. Right, three shows left in the deal. Bob Hope was going to his airport in the airport just for people to recognize him. And he just needed it. He needed that the public.

He just needed people in retirement. And it's in the song. It's going to be me. It's going to be. It happens to everybody. She's singing all of doing all the singing. And every now and then there'd be a cut. Yeah.

And hope we go, that's right. Oh, no. They're jump-cutting him around the side because he can't move. So he's magical. So he has to go from spot to spot. But they're just doing it optically. They're just doing it with jump cuts. I think that's how they edit the voice, by the way.

So you told Johnny, you tried to get him interested in doing a big highfalutin roast for charity? I thought this was a great idea. Johnny's been off the air for eight years and what if there was an HBO, maybe even live roast of Johnny with, think of the comedians who wouldn't do it. You can't. Everyone would do it. Yes. And you could raise a billion dollars for charity. It would be the greatest charitable event in history and probably. probably the highest rated anything in television history. He goes, I'm not coming back. He goes, you got to know when to get the fuck off the stage.

Oh. That's what he said to you. He would get offers. He would get offers and he would listen to them. And he almost did his club act. David Steinberg was doing a small act. It was not advertised in Carson was really considering in 94 doing one. But he just, you know, got cold feed and he's like, no, I'm done.

Who was that that much? But he would come on Letterman once or twice. Once he didn't speak. Right? He had a line, but the audience was so, the applause, he didn't get his line out. But, no, you're right. He would call in sometimes and do bits. Call in and also write for Dave.

Yeah, David was using his jokes. He was using his monologue jokes. He loved just writing and sending him in, and once in a while Dave would do them. And when Johnny passed away, Dave did a monologue, and at the end of the monologue, he goes, I want you to know that every joke I just told was Johnny's. that's great i remember that yeah i remember when jack benny died and jenn johnny got very emotional they said they said around 74 yeah they said they said around the office they said it was just a horrible i remember as as because he was it wasn't what i love benny if i'm wrong he was the sweetest

greatest guy everybody loved that's what i heard that's one celebrity i we've never heard anything no bad story what about george burns not really have you ever heard anything bad about a little bit of philandering, I think, but that's the worst of it. How did you guys part company? I remember hearing a story that when Gracie died, they, you know, Burns was at the funeral, the reading of the will and everything, and Burns went to the, to, you know, Hillcrest afterwards, and Georgie Jessel's there, and he says, you know, Gracie didn't leave me anything in the will. and Jessel says

Well, that's because you've fucked everybody in town and Gracie North. Oh. Wow. That's the only thing we heard about I did not know that. Yeah. But he wasn't in hopes class.

I did not know that. He wasn't in his host class as far as an adulterer. I've never heard that. I don't think it's true. So you brought Ray to the lunch? Ray was that the lunch? And when you guys said goodbye to Johnny,

obviously you're sky high in some way. You're meeting a hero. He grabbed my dick. Did he? Well, I noticed Shecky was very kind to you, too, on the show. He was not so kind to us. No, we had Shecky. He, I was doing a thing at the Pryor's Club.

And I remember, because Joey Behar was there. She was just in the audience. And I went on, and I did very well. And it was getting laughs. And then after me, was supposed to be. Shecky Green and instead Joy Behar they introduced and I thought that's weird how come they they bumped him and it turns out that I didn't see all this they were telling me that he flew into a rage at my act saying I was in the Navy I never heard language like that

awesome and and they said again the old person resenting not appreciating or liking the young must yeah this made huge news I read about it in the newspaper. I mean, it was a huge deal. He took a swing of Freddie Roman. Yes. Yeah, it was a huge deal. Yeah, I remember.

On his way out the door, reading about it. It was great, because it was like that Broadway Danny Rose type thing, because I remember, you know, Freddie Roman was there all upset. And, oh, oh, what, what's his name? At the friar's club, they never heard this language? At the friars. Mickey Freeman? No, no. Yeah, I surprised.

I thought that that. No. Stewie Stone. By the way, it's the dirtiest place on earth. Right. They never heard this language. Stewie Stone said to me, oh, that chequey, he's a fucking idiot. But he was very nice. Mark charmed him. He gave me dinner. I sat down with him and his wife. Unexpected, I said, and they're like, do you want to sit down? And they fed me. And, yeah, we were in his living room. And he was doing, he was all outperforming. I mean, he was really nice to me, but he told me he hates your guts. Yeah.

Oh, he did not. No. Well, you know, the buddy hacker stories. He doesn't hate you. People should go to listen to your episode with Shecky Green just to hear about Buddy Hackett jumping on his back and pulling a gun on him. Shecky Green was incredible. Freddie said that Buddy pulled a gun on him in the elevator. There you go.

Who did? I heard you doing one of my jokes and he pulled out a gun. Yeah. Pack and heat, buddy. Shecky's okay with you. He really is. Well, you know, Sheck, I think what I thought and what most people confirmed is, I think, why. What he really was going through, he has like a crippling stage fright.

Yeah. You talked about that. So he used you as an excuse to beat the hell, get the hell out of it? Yeah, yeah. I think he got scared. We got a rap. Well, wait, he's got to plug his stuff. I want to mention on Sirius XM, they're going to be doing a Johnny Carson channel

starting October first for the month of October. And they're going to be using some of my audio clips from the Carson podcast. And then on some of the comedy channels throughout October, I'm going to be hosting. in a special, Johnny, with some clips. Wonderful. We'll plug it on Facebook, too. And the new podcast is great. Persistence 360. I've been listening to it. We talked about it outside. Sum it up. What's the elevator pitch?

Oh, yeah. I just talked to people that went through brick walls like Phil Rosenthal. It was just one roadblock after another, and they kept going. All to get on this podcast. Yes. Yeah. So I talked to a bunch of, like, we were talking about like Don Roy King, who direct Saturday Night Live, who just won an Emmy again. We have Michael Emerson, some show. We have a bunch of... Very inspiring.

Yeah. Don Roy King found his dream job in his 50s. Yeah. So we talk to a lot of people in different fields entertainment. We definitely get the entertainment and, yeah, persistence. I'm very impressed by your passion, my friend. Oh, thanks. And the way that you reach out.

Very few people as great as Mark Malcolm. He's just great. He loves what he does, and it comes out. He comes a sweet, nice boy. He is. We should all be nice boys like Mark Malcolm. Get going. Come on. I can't top that.

Gilbert is just looking Instead of filthy animals He's just laughing at me Fearal dogs You want to sign off Gilbert? I'm Gilbert God for this is And I'm here with A Jew, yes

Yes I never like those people We're here with anti-Semitic Jackie Gleason If I owned a hotel, I wouldn't let them stay there. I knew that smells like a Jew. Who's been here? Okay.

I can't even talk. Okay, this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. And we've had Phil Rosenthal. And watch me get the name wrong again. Mark Malkoff? Lovely. Gilbert. You did it.

Oh, my God. I have to say, you won't remember. me tomorrow on the street when we see it. No, no. Who is here? Mark, milkshake? Yeah. They'll fill our meat. Thank you, boys. Now, as you know, the

San Diego Zoo is one of the finest zoos in the world, and we've had this young lady on the show very often the past, I guess, seven or eight years. She's been appearing with us. But nine years. About nine years. Right, yeah. Several, plus several will be about nine.

You said seven or eight. No, I said... No, I didn't say seven or eight. I said several. Then you said seven or eight. eight and I said it's nine nine good thank you some of the animals some of the animals you had as babies are now 10 years old that would be about right um remember the animals that did something funny on your tie yes those little lions and little baby lions were one year old that's right they are now treacherous and ferocious 10 year old animals okay

Anyway, Joan Embry is here tonight. And she's now 32. That's right. Joan is an animal handler and a trainer. And you really think you're fooling everybody, don't you? No, no, no, no. And she also... I just here to do my best to help you.

I know that. And she does her three horse shows a day. Did you know that? At the animal park. Boy. What? What an exciting idea. Would you like an army cot or something?

Maybe just to kind of catch you up on a little nap-y poo? Just might snap you right out of it. I love Joan. I'm the only one who went down to see you. Doc has never seen her. You've never seen her. I went to the wild animal farm. It's all right.

It's all right. It's okay. But you're upsetting me. No, no. I don't upset you. I went down, Joan, and I wrote it. No, you did. That's all right.

I'm fine. Don't say. No. What? I don't, I know her. I went down there. Oh, I know you did. I know you went down there.

I held a baby gorilla. I couldn't go with you that week. You held a baby gorilla. Good, all right. And let's get her out here quickly. Who is you? Welcome, Joan. Committance, Colossal Obsessions