Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Tom Bergeron

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

GGACP celebrates the birthday (May 6) of TV personality and game show host Tom Bergeron by revisiting this entertaining conversation from 2017. In this episode, Tom weighs in on a variety of topics, including the unpredictability of live television, the genius of Marcel Marceau, the benefits of transcendental meditation and the rise and fall of the Jerry Lewis Telethon. Also, Tom interviews Moe Howard (and Larry Fine), Sid Caesar speaks German, Bob Hope moves down the couch and Mel Brooks mimics Bill Cullen. PLUS: Bob the Puppet! The Lawrence Welk singers! Arnold Schwarzenegger “brings funny!” Henry Winkler pulls a fast one! And Tom and Gilbert remember John Ritter!   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter P pounder today and discover how words are so unnecessary for a limited time only at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough For something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks Here's another Gilbert and Franks

Here's another Gilbert and Franks Colossal classic hi this is gilbert godfrey and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. We're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is a man of many talents and many job descriptions. He's a comedian, actor, former radio DJ, and talk show host, game show and reality show host, Emmy-winning TV presenter, and one of the busiest and most versatile and popular personalities on television today. He's done just about everything, see? There you go.

See, you know, the engineer said in case you fuck up. This is in case I fuck up. And he you know what? Does he ever listen to this show? In case? He's done just about

everything a man can do in show business. Hosting his own radio show, guest hosting and co-hosting stables like Good Morning America, the Miss America pageant, the Jerry Lewis telethon, sharing the screen with the Muppets and appearing in hit shows like The Nanny, Castle, and Star Trek Enterprise. Hell, he's even done stand-up comedy, performed magic tricks, and worked as a mime. For six seasons, he hosted the revamp of the iconic game show Hollywood Squares. I think I remember that joke.

Winning his first two Emmy Awards in the process while he's serving as host of the long-running ABC series America's Funniest Home Videos. And since 2005, he's hosted the wildly popular reality series Dancing with the Stars. Is this going to be much longer? This is it. He's coming into the homestretch. Oh, good.

You can go and have dinner. The landing gear is down. The introduction's coming into the terminal. It's written for speed, but not delivered that way. I don't give a fuck if the guest wants to speak or not. I have an introduction to do. And recently moderated a panel featuring Mel Brooks and former podcast guest Carl Reiner, Dick Van Dyke, and Norman Lear.

Sure, those are all significant achievements, but what really impresses us here on the show is the fact that he interviewed both Moe Howard and Larry Fine when he was all of 16 years old. What, Curly Joe Dorito wouldn't take his gold? Please welcome to the podcast an entertainment industry renaissance man and a man who once referred to yours truly as his favorite celebrity square, our pal Tom Bergeron. I can't wait to meet him. He sounds incredible. Well, you've done a lot.

Yeah. It has to get packed in there. I know. I never thought I'd relive it in actual time. That's funny. So you look oddly familiar. You do too. It's good to see you.

I have to say that the main impetus for me even showing up today, apart from knowing the introduction would be so glowing, was because I had heard that you are now married and you have kids. And I saw a documentary that your alleged wife sent me in a link to an email. I've been corresponding with Dara repeatedly. The actress who portrays as well. The actress who portrayed, yeah. She's very good. Is this like Kevin James with a recasting and Leah Rimini's going to be your wife in the next documentary?

So I came here thinking this is a Gilbert Gottfried who I never experienced when we worked together on Hollywood Square. It's this happily married dad. You know, I thought this can't be real. And I get here and Dara's not here. So I have a lot of doubts. It's just crap. It's all bullshit. So I have a lot of doubts. See?

It's just crap. It's all bullshit. It's kind of like how Brad Garrett on his show recast his daughter a few times. Oh, he did that on the one after Everybody Loves Raymond? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, Till Death Do Us Part. Yeah, like Roseanne did that with one of her daughters. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she did. Becky. Yeah, the Roseanne did that with one of her daughters. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she did. Yeah. Becky. Yeah. The new Becky. Who later wound up on Scrubs. The second one. The second Becky. Wound up on Scrubs.

Yeah, the second one. Right. Okay. Right, right, right. So he was your favorite square, huh? It says in the book. It's true. In terms of just consistently breaking me up, you were the one. You were like the go-to guy for just guaranteed breaking me up.

Some of them would go a little off kilter and on side streets. But Gilbert would always nail it, would always nail it. And never so good as that classic You Fool show that we talked about. And where it was just you. Every other square had been picked, and the two contestants kept picking you because you were the only one left. Oh, yeah.

And they kept messing it up, and you kept yelling, You fool! That's not a bad Gilbert, you think? Hey, you fool! And then everybody said Penn & Teller started yelling it and it kept going back and forth, and I was throwing the commercial saying the Gilbert Gottfried show will be right back after this. It was wonderful.

It was just classic stuff. Those were fun times. They were fun. They were fun, yeah. We would do, I don't know if people know, but we would do five of those in a day. We'd do three in the morning. Then we'd break for lunch. Spago would cater our lunch.

And then we'd do the other two. We were more sober than the original show oh yeah yeah because they would get hammered we had peter here you're marshall you talk about the drinking yeah gilbert loves to ask that question about the lubricated celebrities how like in the original shows they were shit face yeah yeah absolutely and if you watch like match game and gene rayburn even, looked a little creepy with that. Yeah. With that proctologist microphone.

And then, you know, you get later in the week and he'd be leering over the women contestants, you know, sort of like Trump with the Irish reporter. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So a lot of drinking going on. But not on our version. Our version, we were pretty much stone cold sober. There were a few people that probably partook of stuff, but yeah, it was too early in the day. But I remember that.

We had a really nicely, you know, serviced lunch and breakfast. And all those video games in the oh yes i beat vena and venus and serena williams back to back playing hydro thunder and that was that was my impressive yeah they offered to try me at tennis i said no i'm good with this i always remember leaving hollywood squares at the end of the shoot one day, and they had a driver to take me back to the hotel. And that day was dragging on longer because of whatever, the cameras or the lights. And I was a little annoyed. And the driver says to me, how was your day?

And I was just about to go, oh, it was shit. It was gone. And then I go, wait, you came in, you had breakfast, told three jokes, broke for lunch, told another three jokes. And it's like, you know, shut the fuck up. Yeah, seriously. There are no welts on your hands from the heavy lifting. Yeah.

I think my father had a harder work day than this. Yeah, definitely. So you had an epiphany because of this Hollywood Squares moment. Yeah, like I think there are worse ways to make a living. Well, I called our mutual friend Dave Boone. Dave Boone, yeah. Who was obviously the writer back then. And he said you guys would go to the bar in Century City, which you were talking about outside.

Park Hyatt Hotel, yeah. He said Gilbert would only order water. And would get shut off before the rest of us. It was the weirdest thing. I think you're done, sir. He's drinking water! Yes! Why did you only order water, Gil?

I don't know. Because I know the answer. Yeah. You know the answer? Oh, do tell. I think I do. Well, because I wasn't paying for it. Am I wrong? At that point, I wasn't even drinking. Interesting. Yeah. Because you're hammered now. Yeah, yeah. Well, now I'm on crystal meth. Oh, good. Yeah. Go right by alcohol.

I remember from the bar, because they would put us both in the same hotel. Yes. I remember from the bar because they would put us both in the same hotel. Yes. It's one one night. The two of us are hanging out in the bar. And there was some woman who was like a real showbiz type, like she was either a producer or a booker or something. And we're talking to her, and she kept saying to us, you know, like, when you have Arnold Schwarzenegger on this show, he brings funny. That's right.

Robert De Niro doesn't bring funny. Tom Hanks brings funny. Yeah, Al Pacino doesn't bring funny. Right, right. And I remember from then on. That was the go-to phrase. Yes. That was the go-to phrase. Yes. That was the go-to phrase.

It's like when they'd say, and Gilbert Gottfried to block, you would go. He brings funny. Yes. You'd go, Gilbert Gottfried, the man who brings funny. And I thought no one else watching this thought I would always laugh. And with your alleged wife, whom I was corresponding with, I was instructed to bring funny

and I even brought Lois. My wife is here to meet Dara and of course to see you again and, you know. We must thank Lois too because it was backstage at The View down in Orlando. that's right yeah where lois we started talking about the idea of you coming on the show so we have to thank her for helping set this up and and this is something i have to get to i read that you took anger management no meditation meditation i i uh

because i had a temper. I still do. I mean, it's just sort of it's been meditated into submission. But, yeah, I was, as a matter of fact, when Lois and I were just dating, there was something that happened. And I would always, like, just hit sheetrock or berate myself. I was never violent with anybody else. But I slammed my fist into the driver's side door about something that was irritating me. And Lois said, you know, if we're going to have a relationship, that's going to stop. So I took – I started taking meditation lessons, TM meditation, which Howard does.

Howard Stern does and Jerry Seinfeld, a number of people, and Dan Harris, whom I spoke with this morning, ABC News. And I've been meditating ever since. So you have a temper. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, let's see. Go fuck yourself, Tom.

That's anatomically impossible. See how calmly I dealt with that? That's years of meditating. It's paying off. Yeah, yeah. Inside, I'm seething. But outside, I'm just grabbing some iced coffee. You can even meditate, according to the book, Tom's book, I'm hosting as fast as I can, which is a lot of fun.

Which came out in 2009 and is probably in bargain book. We try to cover all our bases research-wise. You can even research backstage surrounded by people. Oh, meditate? Yeah. I don't research backstage. I'm sorry, I misspoke. You can even do a meditation when you're surrounded by chaos.

Yeah. People think I'm just ignoring them. But in fact, I'm in deep Zen meditation. It's fascinating. How do you do it? Quickly. You have to do it quickly because you're in a crowd. But just in terms of like the live show I do, Dancing with the Stars, it's important to be listening, to be present, to be paying attention.

to be listening, to be present, to be paying attention. When I was doing Hollywood Squares, there'd be days, I mean, it's inevitable, where you're just not feeling like bringing the funny. And what I would do is just enjoy you guys. And that would prime, instead of worrying about it, instead of thinking, oh, I don't feel that on today or I'm not into it today, instead of worrying about that,

I would just sit back and be a fan. And inevitably that would prime the pump. And within a show or two, I was fine. And you were talking about, like with all your experience as a talk show host, that you used to like to talk to the guests on Hollywood Square. Well, yeah. I mean, look, I had you nine people in that tic-tac-toe board who were all fascinating and funny and entertaining. And so for the first few shows that we shot when we started taping the show back in, what was it, 98, right?

Michael King of the King Brothers who were producing the show had to come up to me, I think at the lunch break, and say, it's going great, Tom, but you got to move it along a little quicker. I know you're into talking with everybody, but the contestants, they want to win stuff, and I was kind of ignoring them. Can I pick a square? Yeah, yeah, I'll get to you.

I've got to talk to Garth Brooks for a second. Did you get faked out by somebody punked you on the show? Later in the run of the show, when the original producers had left and Henry Winkler and Michael Levitt came on board, and Henry and Michael concocted an April Fool's joke on me where the contestants were actually actors and they got increasingly belligerent with each other. And they started, you know, it was getting like the woman started crying and the guy was like being really snippy. And he was and Lois, who was there because we live in Connecticut and now California, but then we'd fly out. And so Henry got her back in the control room because he thought she would tip me off, that it was a bit.

And I just kept going. And Lois told me after that Henry turned to her and said, he's not going to stop. And she said, no, he knows it's good television. And it was true. As weird as it was, I mean, you can see it online. There were moments where I'm looking at my camera going, for this I gave up the audition to Card Sharks? But it was great TV. I didn't know that they were actors. So I thought, if we can get 22 minutes of this or whatever the run of the show was, we can air it. If I bail now, we'll never be – because I thought it was legit.

And finally, Henry comes over to the intercom and, Tom, it's an April Fool's joke. But see, that shows something about you that drives me crazy with other people on shows. Sometimes something will go wrong or something will happen and they'll go oh we can't show that yeah i was saying you definitely yeah especially live television oh yeah that's that's have fun with the fact that it's live right yeah it brings the audience back they go that can happen here the one the wonderful uh example of that for me growing up was always carson's monologue oh yeah that that you know johnny cars, it wasn't the jokes that worked. It was the jokes that bombed and how he rolled with that and how he

played with the audience. He'd start tap dancing. He'd start tap dancing or he'd bring the microphone down and tap it, you know, doing the, you know, attention Kmart shoppers or whatever you would. But it was that was the fun part. How do you roll with something? How do you live in the moment of it and, you know make lemonade out of lemons that kind of thing maybe the best example is that aims in the tomahawk oh that's right where he stops at aims from going up to take it out right because he wanted to let that moment breathe because that was just brilliant brilliant comedy for it to land right where it landed yeah and i i remember when i would do those those bits at the beginning of Leno with the Tonight Show, it's like what I noticed

was the bits they would enjoy, but when we would fuck up a line, they would just go hysterical. Right, right. Yeah, and I think, too, people will look at you, and if they know you're enjoying the fuck up and playing, then they're going to go along for the ride too. The moment, and to your point earlier, where you see somebody gets very tense if it doesn't go perfectly the way it's been formatted or whatever, that's no fun for an audience. You want to see them be real and have some flexibility and ability to adapt. Yeah, because like those bits with Jalen or sometimes we fuck up so badly we couldn't go back to the bit, and then the audience really loved it. Sure, of course.

Of course. Did Jay Reddick have Paul Lynn stories from the old days? Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Because Jay worked on our version of the show from 98 to 2004 and had been with the original version, the classic version with Peter Marshall and Paul Lind. And yeah, he had great stories. Jay confirmed a story that I heard years ago.

And this was a guy who worked with him. So he knew. And that, you know, Paul Lind was very anti-semitic yeah yeah i thought you gotta see the look on time's face like yeah yeah yeah it's not even not even a slight uncomfortable it's like yeah it's like it's like everybody knows that and And that Paul Lynn, the other guests would drink and they'd laugh and have fun and joke with each other. Paul Lynn would get really drunk and he'd get more and more bitter. Yeah. And he'd be there with the drink in his hand going, oh, those fucking Jews.

They're the reason I don't have a career. I hate those goddamn Jews. They're the reason I don't have a career. I hate those goddamn Jews. Yeah, that's when they were glad it wasn't a live show. Great. Does Tom know the other Paul Lynn story that makes a regular appearance on this show? Oh, okay. See if he knows this one. You must. I'm not sure.

One time, Paul Lynn was brought into, I think it was like the... The Gold Diggers. The Gold Diggers dressing room. Uh-huh. Oh, jeez. And he said, this place smells like cunt. I think. I would have bet a dollar you knew that one.

I did not know that one. It doesn't surprise me, though. It's all in the timing. It's all in the timing. It's all in the timing. And now we're going to have a commercial, which in my day was when they would advertise a product and they'd refer to it as a commercial. And they'd play it on the radio.

Radios were like little boxes that sound came out of. Sound back then was something that traveled into your ear and you would hear it because you would hit your eardrums. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. You need cooling. Baby, I'm not fooling. I'm going to send you back to schooling. To podcast school.

You need Gilbert and Frank. Honey, you need them. They're going to give you their love. They're going to give you their love. They're going to give you their love. They're going to give you their love. G-G-A-C-P love. That sweet, funky love. G-G-A-C-P love.

Nice and hard. G-G-A-C-P love. It's Gilbert and Frank love. And now back to the show. I saw a clip doing research of you guys when you brought squares to New York. I saw you guys together at the Stock Exchange. Do you remember doing this? No.

You and Gilbert. I was at the Stock Exchange? Yes, it's on YouTube. I remember when we were doing the New York one. Yeah. Well, I think at one point they had me on a bus one of those tour yeah yeah narrating thing my god i have to see video of myself at the stock exchange i have no memory of this at all and the top of the world trade center oh is that what it was yeah yeah that i might have been the

top of the world trade yeah maybe i'm wrong i think that's yeah that i remember vaguely yeah increasingly i find that most of my memories are in the vaguely category. When you were reading that introduction, I was going, oh, right, I did do that. Do you, I'm sure this happens to you all the time. You get a residual check and go, what the hell was this? The pile of residual checks I got one time from Hollywood Squares was like that Seinfeld episode where it's all of those 23 cents, 14 cents. Just this pile of carpal tunnel syndrome waiting to happen. I'll sometimes go to my mailbox.

It looks like there's a size of a brick of envelopes. You get very excited, right? And I'll go, boy, I can buy my own island. Yeah, yeah. And I add them all up and put them together, and all the checks come to like $1.27. Yeah, yeah. Plus, you can't use the machine. No.

I get them, too, from cartoons I used to read. You got to go to the teller window because there's 80 of them. And the machine only takes something like 40. Well, the ATM machine actually laughs. Right. Actually, I've put those residual checks into an ATM and I heard a voice go, are you kidding me? Seriously? I'm not taking this shit.

It's ridiculous. Yeah. I've gotten checks for a penny. Yes. Yeah. Which had to be mailed to you in an envelope that cost what now? Forty cents or something like that? Yeah.

The glue on the stamp. Yeah. You should frame those, Gil. Yeah. I have one frame. You do? For a penny. And I have underneath it a fortune cookie, a fortune from a cookie that says your talents will be recognized and suitably rewarded.

I love it. Yeah. Yeah, but I still get residual checks, really small ones for the, were you there when we shot the episode of the nanny making whoopee? And it was after a whole day of doing our show, and then we had to wait around while they shot with oh no fran drescher and and whoever charles shaughnessy again yeah and uh and it took almost as long for them to shoot their segment as it took us to do five shows and a bunch of people with clipboards and it was just it was like really this is really annoying and and one thing both Frank and I were excited about, you spoke to two of the three Stooges. That's right. Sure, it's in his intro.

That's right. It must be true. It was in the intro. For those of you just joining us, go back to the first five and a half minutes of the show when I was being introduced. Tell us how that came about. I was 16 years old in my childhood home in Haverhill, Massachusetts. My parents were out for the night. My sister was at a sleepover at a friend's house.

So I did what any kid left alone on a Saturday night when he's 16 years old would do. I decided to call the Three Stooges. And I'm in Massachusetts. I knew Moe and Larry were still alive. I thought, well, what are you doing? Okay. I'll, I'll call information in Los Angeles. And the operator said, well, I've got several M Howards, but only one Larry fine. I'll take that number. And she gives it to me. I call and I'm pretty nervous, but I've got my little cassette tape recorder with the little microphone, that suction cup thing that's in the receiver. Oh, sure.

And this woman answers, and she says she's Larry Fine's mother. Well, this can't be right. She said, oh, no, no, I'm not the mother of that Larry Fine of the Three Stooges. We get these calls occasionally. I can give you the number, though, for where he is at the Motion Picture Home in Woodland Hills. So I call there, switchboard guy answers, says, I'll get him. He goes, he comes back. He says, he's playing poker. Can you call back in half an hour? He has a good hand. So I do. And Larry comes to the phone. Now he had suffered a stroke. So there was a little bit of that, but it was still very distinctively him.

And he was just charming. And I was this nervous 16-year-old fan. And about 10 minutes into the conversation, he says, you want Mo's number? And he gives me Mo's home phone number. Fantastic. So after we said our goodbyes, and I did call him back a number of times over the ensuing 18 months. But I called Mo's house. Mo's wife answers, puts Mo on the phone. Mo sounds exactly like Mo. Like right off a soundstage. And he's

who gave you this number? And I said Larry did? And there was as I remember it, this pause and he just went, Larry. That's so great. That inferred lame brain. That's so great. In describing the comedy of the Three Stooges, would you classify it, if you could classify it, under slapstick, farce, or what? Now you've just hit the right spot, Al.

Slapstick belongs to the circus. It was created there and belongs there. Where one clown will chase another with a pair of slapstick and a torpedo between them, slap them on the fanny and make a loud noise. That's circus, clown stuff. We do pure farce. Slapstick doesn't mean to get hit on the head with a board or a punch in the face or a hit in the face with a pie. That's not slapstick.

So there's a great confusion then, because even Keystone comedy would have been more farce than slapstick. That's correct. Absolutely. Right. When you see those cops in that police patrol driving down and hanging on the rear end and all kinds of positions and flying off the thing.

That's farce. There's nothing drastic about that. We had this long chat. I taped conversations. I was on Howard Stern's show back when the book came out, and Stern, as you know, is a big Stooges fan, and he encouraged me to look for these tapes, and I found a half hour with Mo,

20 minutes with Larry on quarter-inch tape from back in 1971 and 72, and we turned it into a 90-minute special. That's Howard calling for his residual checks right now. They come back to life. It's Larry Fine from the beyond.

That's right, that's right. I had turned this, at least, I don't know how to operate my own phone. You did hear the part of the show where I said turn your phone off. Yes, I did. You're just making sure that words are actually coming out of me. You're going to pretend that's from your wife, right? Who doesn't exist? I had pressed the button, and there was a little bell there with a line going through.

Yeah, yeah. Joyce Boulefont playing Gilbert's wife. That's yeah. Joyce Boulefont playing Gilbert's wife. That's right. There is actually no Gilbert's wife. Go back to Moe. Yeah, so anyway, we all put the phones on mute. So Moe was great, and this special that the Stern people put together called Stooges Lost and Found, which incorporates some of the sketches they've done over the years

on the three stooges as well. But the centerpiece of it is these interviews. And it's just great to have them saved. The tape with the Larry interview, as we were transferring it to digital, was shredding right in front of us. So they didn't have much life left to them if Howard hadn't encouraged them to listen for them. Yeah, definitely. What gets me about that story,

I've heard it with the Stooges and Laurel and Hardy and all these people, is how much easier it was to get in touch. Well, Chuck McCann was on with us and he picked up the phone one day and called Stan Laurel. So did Dick Van Dyke. So did Dick Van Dyke. That's how he met Stan Laurel.

That's right. It's like calling guests on this show. We have a hard time. And you're famous. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, but back then. I'm only here because Seacrest canceled.

You didn't call Joe Dorita. You weren't such a hardcore Stooge fan. Not so hard. Joe Dorita, he just wasn't a good fit. And Curly Joe, well, wait, Joe Besser. I was just doing Joe Besser. Was Besser dead by then? No, no, he wasn't. But Joe Besser was the not so hard.

He didn't like to be hit. And of course, that was their whole thing. Right. And then that was his way of not getting hit. And then they had to, I guess, the end of their contract with, who was it they had the contract with? Was it 20th Century Fox? Columbia, I think. Yeah, Columbia, you're right.

And then when they were doing the full-length pictures, then they went to Curly Joe Dorita, who I think was under contract elsewhere at the time. And then there was a lawsuit over who would get all the money from the studio. Oh, yeah. And it went to Curly Joe Dorita. What? He was like— How'd that happen?

The extras in those movies deserve more money. Oh, yeah. More than... That's an injustice. I mean, he seems like he was a very nice guy. But really, it was just his physical similarity to the original Curly. Yeah, he was fat and bald. Yeah, that was it.

That was it. You could have gone walking down the street, found any fat bald guy. Shaved Trump, and he could have done it. Yeah, yes. I was at Joe Dorita's wake, but that's a story for another show. Oh, really? I was. Oh, yeah?

It was sad. Well, it's a wake. And not well attended. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, not even two other guys, huh? There were about 12 people.

Yeah. 10 people. Yeah. 10 people. Yeah. And he was the last of the Stooges to die, wasn't he? I believe so. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Late in the mid-90s, I want to say. Larry died, and then about six months later, Moe died. Right.

And you never called Emil Sitka. Emil Sitka. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Emil Sitka, by the way, at one point, was going to be the third Stooge. Emil Sitka. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Emil Sitka, by the way, at one point was going to be the third Stooge. Yes. Yeah.

When I think that was after, I don't know where that came in the timeline, whether that was after Joe Derita. It was after Joe Derita and Larry, they were considering bringing him back, but he was in a wheelchair. Oh, so he was going to replace Larry. Yeah. So Mo would be the only original guy left, and he'd have Joe Dorita and Emil Sitka. Slapping a guy in a wheelchair just doesn't play.

No. And some filmmaker who was the partner of the guy who did Frankenstein vs. Dracula, of the guy who did Frankenstein vs. Dracula, which was the last of the Lon Chaney Jr., J. Carol Nash movies. Wow. And it was scary for the wrong reasons. Yeah, like the current mummy. Oh, yes.

Yeah. And he was going to make a new Three Stooges movie where it's written into the script that Larry gets released from the actor's home. Yeah. And then they even have one scene where he's like either at a whorehouse. They didn't film this, did they? And he's chasing the girls around, which I'm sure they would have used fast motion.

Yeah. And thank Jesus this was never actually made. I think Mo died before this got a chance to be made. I have a VHS tape of Kook's tour. Now, Kook's Tour was the last project that they were working on, and Larry had his stroke in the midst of it. So it's incomplete,

but it's fascinating to watch them. You know, there are some comic types that just don't age well. No. Buster Keaton did. I mean, he had the right voice. I mean, his career wasn't that great, but his voice matched his character. Laurel and Hardy, same thing.

When sound came, they sounded like you would expect Laurel and Hardy to sound like. Chaplin didn't. Chaplin had this sort of upper crust British accent, and it didn't work with the Tramp. And the Tramp was a young character, too, who didn't really age that well. But the Stooges, up to a point, did. But, yeah, once you're in wheelchairs and stuff chasing hookers, then it's time to rethink your career choices. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. That's the hooker talking.

That's pretty good. With comics like that, it's like after a while you're watching and going, oh, these old men are hitting each other. Yeah, yeah. And it was like watching Bob Hope in the last few specials. Oh, my God. I'm so glad you said that. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Oh, that was tough. We go there often. Do you? Yeah. Did you see a special? And if you haven't, you owe it to yourself. It was, I think, Bob Hope's last Christmas special. Oh, I don't know.

And he's dressed up. He's doing the song and dance thing. Well, not dancing. He's nailed to a wall to hold him up. And Dolores is doing most of the singing. Oh, gosh. And a bunch of kids dancing around him. And he's dressed as Jack Frost.

And it looks like he died 10 years before. We just changed your life, Tom. You're going to see this video. I'm going to see that, yeah. And they glued on like a little beard and a pointed hat. It looks like you took a corpse and dressed it in funny clothes. Had his eyes gotten that weird red? Yes. It looked like you took a corpse and dressed it in funny clothes. Had his eyes gotten that weird red? Yes.

It looked like he poured red nail polish into his eyes. Yeah, that's right. And the very most he could do, like she would sing, it's Jack Frost. And then the camera would be a separate shot on him and go, that's me. And then the camera would be a separate shot on him and go, that's me. There's also cheap special effects where he keeps reappearing.

Oh, yes. He disappears and reappears. Where it was like an hour for them to carry him from one side of the room to the other. Well, I heard just stories about how big the cue cards were towards the end. And the piece was in his ear. The earpiece. It was sad. The last thing I ever saw him on, it may have been the last thing he ever done on camera,

was like a Walmart commercial or something, that he was sitting in a diner, and they made him, you talk about moving fast, they made him move really fast to go out to a sale or something. What I remember about that is he's sitting in a diner and he's wearing a hat. Yeah, yeah. So we know the guy running out of the diner, even though it's speeded up, was not him.

And of course you say, well, when do we ever see Bob hoping a hat? Yeah, that's true. So he's wearing this big wide brimmed hat and they say there's a sale going on and blah blah blah blah blah and then he runs out yeah and you go okay this is someone else doing the running and plus they speed it up anyway yeah did you work with him if you ever never i never met bob no interesting no it was you know i i used to love it when like on the old carson tonight show he there's the classic one where he's on it and George Goebel's on it. Oh, and Dino's on that one.

And Dino's on it, and they're flicking the ashes into George Goebel's drink. And Goebel supposedly doesn't, he's not aware, but he's definitely holding it. Oh, yes. So it's working. Yes. The gag's working. But, you know, I remember, I just remember as a kid loving the star power of the old Tonight Show when Hope would come out. And then Hope would always have some place to go.

Right. He could never stay for the whole hour and a half. I'm shooting a special down the hall. He also would come out without an intro. He'd just suddenly walk out with the golf club in his hand. I don't think Johnny, from what I understand, I don't think Johnny was all that thrilled with that after a while. Probably. Yeah.

Probably. I remember, too, the wonderful Tonight Show episode where Robin Williams was on with Bob Hope, and Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam had made Bob Hope jokes that Bob – Oh, he needs a big room. He needs a big room. Yeah, he doesn't play – what was it? He doesn't play military actions. Military actions.

He only plays full-scale wars. That's right. And Hope was pissed. And so Robin Williams, I think, came out after Hope. And Hope moved down the couch, but was really just very icy. Kind of like Jack Frost. That's a callback, boys and girls.

And I heard Bob Hope also didn't like the idea of moving down the couch. Probably not. For another guest. Probably not. Yeah. And but I when I remember when i saw that jack frost thing and dolores is there and he's there and he should they should have let him die years ago yeah yeah and i always thought this is dolores's revenge for all the fucking around

yeah all the uso tours oh yes yes yeah we're gonna send this clip to you. Oh, please do. And Dave, you'll pulpit it off. Have Dara, whoever she really is, send it to me. Gilbert's wife. Gilbert's wife. That's what you call yourself. Yeah, that's right. We're trying to get our hands on those late Bob Hope specials, and they're hard to find. Yeah.

Oh, is that right? Even if you find these internet sales where some collector has all the Bob Hope specials, the 90s ones are hard to find. Yeah. Oh, is that right? Even if you find these internet sales where some collector has all the Bob Hope specials, the 90s ones are hard to find. And I wonder if the estate has taken them out of circulation. Maybe. I just remember being amazed at how quickly he got old. It just seemed like he went from being really, you know, fairly competent to suddenly ancient.

Yeah. What fascinates me with Bob Hope is how he went from being that like like leaping around eye-rolling guy in the in the road movie yeah kind of a feminine acting and then even in the later road movies he became that bob hope yeah yeah yeah. Well, the last, I've got this great book, and it's interviews with all these old Hollywood stars, and Dorothy Lamour is interviewed. Oh. And she talks about the experience of the road pictures, but the latter road pictures. When they were in their late 50s, and Martin and Lewis were coming up, you know, they were the hot comedy team.

And Martin and Lewis were coming up. You know, they were the hot comedy team. And Hope and Crosby were, as she said, they were competing against their younger selves who those movies were on television all the time. And so like The Road to Hong Kong, I think, was the last one they did. Yeah, I think it was that one where he already had that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just didn't work anymore. But, you know, when they were good, it had that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just didn't work anymore. But, you know, when they were good, it was amazing. We've talked about that.

We talked about, you said recently you were talking about how Chico and Harpo didn't age well on screen either. Groucho was able. It's hard to be a physical comedian, too, because Harpo was running across rooftops in his 60s, and it was just sad. Yeah, Groucho was there talking, so it didn't matter. Groucho adapted. Got rid of the grease paint, and then just his own mustache. Well, with You Bet Your Life, too. Yeah, he was able to just—

acerbic ages better, I think. I just think that kind of comedic personality ages better than that sort of youthful Harpo chaplain, the pirouetting nymph. Harpo's in that outfit when he was old. Yeah. He was looking like a homeless man. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. It was like, Harpo, keep the spoons. You might need them. Yeah. Get some soup. Eat something. Well, you bring up Jerry. You brought up Dean and Jerry.

And you did host. You did. Did you co-host? I did. The muscular dystrophy telethon. Yeah. And for a number of years. And really, the reason I first did it was to meet Jerry Lewis.

I mean, obviously, they do great work, yada, yada. But I still just wanted to meet Jerry Lewis. I mean, obviously, they do great work, yada, yada, but I still just wanted to meet Jerry Lewis. And what I would do for the few years I did it was, because he wasn't doing the whole thing anymore, he would take a break for about eight hours at midnight Vegas time until late in the morning. So I would do the overnight shift. And I worked with the Muppets on that too. And it was always great because the craziest acts would be booked for like three in the morning in Vegas and there was one Bob the Spoon.

Bob the Spoon would play Flight of the Bumblebee on spoons of different sizes and so he does his act and you, you know, the people there, they've got a spattering of people there at 3 in the morning in the hotel in Vegas, and they come to me on live TV, and I said, I think it's 3 in the morning, what the fuck. So I said, so I'm looking at Bob the Spoon, and I'm thinking, what the fork was that?

And then I said, let's go to the tote board. Let's just, is your phone ringing again? And then I said, let's go to the tote board. Let's just... Is your phone ringing again? It's buzzing. I turned the ringer off and now it's buzzing. We might have to just shoot the damn thing. This is a phone. This is a phone that can do like 12 billion different things.

Except shut up. And I don't know how to turn off the ringer or the buzzer. I can barely make a call on it. It's like if the story, I'm getting a sense, if my stories go on too long, your phone reacts. It's kind of like those speeches at the Academy Awards. Right, they start the year that the orchestra plays. Well, you must have been, you're such a fan of old show business and classic comedy. You must have loved the old telethons.

Oh, those were the best. And now you'd get these Cheeseball Vegas acts at 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. And the classic moment. And, of course, Jerry Lewis. There was something about Jerry Lewis, even when he'd fill in for Carson and everything, he was so full of himself. Oh, yeah. He was so wonderfully full of himself because he was so desperate to be Dean Martin.

Yes. I think. You know, I think he couldn't. You know, that's why Buddy Love happened, right? Oh, yeah. That was his sort of F you to Dean Martin, I think. But it was still, even if you think these people are a little crazy, they've got such a body of work and a place in the business that how could you not want to meet them and chat with them? I picked Ed McMahon's brain for hours over dinner about Carson because I worked with Ed on the telethon as well.

I never met Carson. Jerry Lewis, I think, always wanted be respected yeah as like an intellectual right and it's like yeah you always felt I always felt like no people love you and you're goofy and funny right yeah that's why people are in love with you you're goofy and fun but he could be good king of comedy I mean he could be good in dramatic roles yeah we love that comedy is wonderful people don't know that you know the whole idea of an instant playback, a director shooting a scene and then being able to look at it right away, video playback, that was his invention.

Absolutely. And, you know, so the guy, he knew his stuff. I mean, he's still with us. He won't listen to this. I met him a couple of times, Lewis, and I can use that classic line. Well, he was always nice to me. Yeah, same here. But so did you see any of the other thing backstage?

I didn't. In fact, actually, I had almost the reverse kind of situation happen where I felt like the MDA people towards the end, and Jerry could go a little off script towards the end. I'm sure. You know, and I think it created some anxiety amongst some of the MDA hierarchy. But I didn't feel like they treated him well towards the end. towards the end. And that led to me deciding not to work anymore with him because I just felt like, you know, if you treat Jerry Lewis like this, you know, the laser scope is going to be on anybody's forehead. Good for you. I remember I thought that when I found out he wasn't going to be the host anymore, it's like, it's, you know, all these years, no one ever said,

hey, I'm going to watch the muscular dystrophy. You say, I'm watching the Jerry Lewis telethon. Exactly right. And then everybody would tune it in to watch Jerry Lewis. Yeah. And then when they tried to continue it without him, it was meaningless. No, of course it was. Yeah, it was. And they did like this sort of star chamber meeting that I found out about because I had moles inside. Oh, did you? And they said, this person contacted me and said, I just want you to know that they had this meeting and they were showing clips that they weren't, you know, things that they were concerned about Jerry doing. And I said, was Jerry in the meeting? No.

I said, that's not cool. That's not cool. I mean, this guy built this. Of course. You can't take that away from him. And so I just thought. But, you know, it just underscored that have fun while you can because it's ultimately, whether it's a charity or anything, it's a business. And, you know, if they can muck around with Jerry Lewis, none of us are safe, Gilbert. None of us are safe.

No matter how long our introductions are. Here's a wild card, Tom, from the book. This intrigued me. You're talking about, I think this is when you were doing People Are Talking. Yes. You said nobody had filthier mounds in show business than the Lawrence Welk singers.

Lawrence Welk, yeah. The Lawrence Welk gang. I also knew Gilbert would enjoy this. We had the cast of the Lawrence Welk show on my Boston talk show. People are talking a few times. And I love these people. They were as raunchy as you could imagine. And they were just, you know, they had been working together for a few decades, you know. Thank you, thank you, friends.

And it was just great. Yeah, they were just, they swore like truck drivers. I love that. Were fun-loving folk. They were. I'm sure, too, because of all those years of doing Lawrence well, they had to, like, do a total reversal. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You could like, do a total reversal. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. You could almost see them as the bubble machine was warming up. They're knocking back shots of tequila. Thank you. Thank you, friends. By the way, this is happening in real time. There she is. She exists.

Sarah! She's real. She's real. Wait a minute. She looks just like in the documentary. But you know, they say the moon landing was fake too. Oh, she gave a loving hug. Doesn't that seem realistic?

Hi, nice to meet you too. I want to question more. Don't just run away. There's two of them. There's the Lander sisters. It's the old Patty Duke show. We have twin Dareth. And now you're the only person who can answer this question, and I know you've been keeping your mouth shut.

What happened to Richard Simmons? Oh, I honestly don't know. Do you remember when Richard Simmons was on Hollywood Squares? And prior to that, when he did a show on FX that I did. I remember him on it with you and Breakfast Time. And Richard was apt to get a little crazy, and I had a spray bottle, like how you would train a cat. Right. And one of his DVDs was called Disco Sweat, so I had it labeled Disco Sweat.

And when he would get out of hand, I would spray him with the bottle he would you know calm down and pretend to be upset and all that but I don't know what he just kind of disappeared and it's all very weird while they were saying like his his housekeeper was holding him hostage podcast about it well what happened to And the thing, if you ever saw, you know, people who remember Richard, he was a fitness guy, but he would always have the tank top and no discernible muscle tone. No. So, you know, I mean, so, yeah, a housekeeper, a hefty housekeeper could have kept him prisoner. And he always looked like he was overweight anyway. He always looked like he was overweight anyway.

I hope he's well, but he was always an entertaining, if somewhat unpredictable, person to have on a show. I liked when he was on the show. It was funny. It made no sense what he would come out with. No. At least you only sprayed him with a water bottle. Letterman hit him with that fire extinguisher on the late night show. We didn't have that kind of budget. I remember.

Since you brought up Breakfast Time and you brought up FX, and there's great stories about it in the book, do you stay in touch with, because I work there at the same time. I worked for Jeff. Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I just sent to Al Rosenberg. Oh, how's he doing? Bob the Puppet.

Nice guy. And very funny. Yes. And Al Rosenberg, who wrote for Stern and Don Imus, is a fairly big guy who became the Greek chorus on this show, which was based on The Big Breakfast in England. And he was our puppet. And he was our puppet and he was just he was amazing and they just did a sizzle reel for a like a web series or something with bob the puppet named a different character but oh yeah so i just i shot off a snarky intro that they might use for that he was funny we're still

in touch you were never on one of those shows you were never on the breakfast time with i'm trying to remember you would remember the puppet there it was i mean i remember watching this show it was in we did it in the flat iron district right down the street from where we are now and it was in a loft apartment 6500 square feet built for television and just for me as much fun as i've had in all these other shows and as successful as like dancing has been and durable as AFV was for me and still is, that was my most fun. It was a little like the old Letterman show where you could kind of do anything. I could do anything. And you did everything and everything.

It was great. It was great. But I don't know if – I don't remember if you did that or not. I don't either. But I don't remember being on top of the World Trade Center for Hollywood Square. I hope I got this right. I glanced at it. It looked like the Stock Exchange.

It may have been the Trade Center. We were talking before we got on the air, and it has to do with another actor I think we've mentioned once or twice on this show. And that's when you dressed up as the Joker. No. Well, Boone said you must ask him about dressing up as the Joker. So here we go. Dressed up as the Joker, the Penguin, and the Riddler. Yes.

That's right. Now, in the early days of FX, when the Breakfast Time show was the morning show, FX didn't do all the incredible original stuff they do now. They had Batman reruns, the Adam West, Burt Ward, Batman show. And Adam West was on with us, you know, God bless him and all that. And Backchat too. Yeah. And just was wonderful. But as a promotional thing, they said, Tom, would you dress up as each of the villains

and we'll do these promos for Batman? I said, all right. So I did the Riddler. And I had been running a lot by then too. I was like running 7, 10 miles a day. So I was really lean and mean. And I could do, I could really. Oh, yeah, because he wore that elastic.

Yeah, that's right. Frank Gorshin, yeah. Yeah, sure did. No hiding sins there. No, no. So I was good for that. The penguin thing, they had a fat suit for me and did it up. But for Cesar Romero's Joker, I said, they were going to just put the white face on me and do the hair.

I said, no, I need a mustache first. I said, they were going to just put the white face on me and do the hair. I said, no, I need a mustache first. I said, what? I said, Cesar Romero never shaved his mustache when he was the Joker. So I want a mustache and then you can put makeup over that because I wanted to be that accurate. I was a method Joker. Now, I don't know if I've ever told this story on the air. Yes. You've done a few of them, so my memory. I'm going to focus on Tom's reaction to this story. Okay. Okay. Oh, you know what's coming. Yeah.

Okay. It's the greatest hit. Well, Cesar Romero in his early leading man days was a Latin lover. Sure. But in real life, he was a homosexual. Okay. And not that there's anything wrong with that. And what he was into is he would gather up these young boy toys and they'd surround him.

And Cesar Romero would pull down his pants and underwear. Yeah. And he'd bend over. And these boy toys would then fling orange wedges at his ass. Really? They'd fling orange wedges to hit Cesar Romero's naked ass. Now, there are some variations. Some say it was tainted.

Isn't there an easier way to get your vitamin C? I mean, take a supplement. Come on. Some say that it was tangerine wedges. That's the only argument I get. You forgot the warm water. Yes. Yes.

Another one I heard fairly recently, like about two years ago or so, was that he would stand ankle deep in warm water as they were throwing either tangerine or orange wedges at his ass. No kidding. That's it. Wow. And were their points awarded for accuracy? Was, you know.

Wedgie. Were their points awarded for accuracy? Was, you know... Reggie! Now, we have had on this show several people who have worked with Cesar Romero. We had Julie Newmar. We had Lee Merriweather. Could they validate any of that? None of them. Oh, all right.

As a matter of fact, they stared kind of like you did. Well, I'm trying to get that. Now I feel like I overthought the mustache thing. Right, you thought you were method. I thought I was method. I could have gone in a lot of different directions. I'm hoping you worked with Danny Thomas. Never.

No, because I had Danny Thomas. Oh, we don't have time for that one. I did do, on that Breakfast Time show, a spit take as an homage to him with Marlo Thomas. Oh, we don't have time for that one. I did do on that Breakfast Time show a spit take as an homage to him with Marlo Thomas. Oh, that's fun. We did a – because he kind of invented the spit take or popularized it. So we did a spit take in honor of him. You also got to interview Sid Caesar and Imogene Coco back in the day. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I did. When I was doing the People Are Talking show in Boston, they were doing a touring show, and they were at one of the theaters in Boston. They did my talk show, and then they came right over to the radio studio because I was doing a radio show right after that. So I got to spend time with them. And at one of the TV Land Awards, I got to sit with Sid, and it just, yeah, it was so cool. It was so cool. It was so cool. We had heard on this show and other places that Sid Caesar was one of those people, I

think like Peter Sellers, that when they weren't in character, they didn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that too. And Peter Sellers, that whole Chauncey Gardner in the film. Did he win an Oscar for that? No, he lost to Dustin Hoffman for Kramer vs. Kramer.

And he had passed away by the time of the – or he was deathly ill, I think, by the time of the Oscars. Yeah, that sounds about right because it was next to Last Picture. Right. And just watching – but they said that that's what he was like, that sort of – because Chauncey's character, there was almost nothing there. And he was like human tofu. He would absorb whatever was around him and ape it back and people took it for wisdom. But yeah, Sid Caesar was apparently like that too when he wasn't doing a character. It was just sort of this sort of weird nothingness.

Well, Reiner told us a story. Was it Reiner where he was getting an award and he was tongue-tied and somebody yelled Mel or somebody yelled? Some say it was Mel Brooks, like that Sid Caesar was making a speech and he was stumbling over it and forgetting what he was talking about and really uncomfortable speaking in front of an audience. So I think Mel Brooks yelled out, say it in German. And he went into this mock German and he just woke up on stage.

His eyes are rolling and he's screaming like a Nazi, waving his hands. And he said he came to life totally mel brooks the other night i was i was moderating a panel discussion after the screening of the hbo documentary if you're not in the obit have breakfast and it features all these people like carl and mel brooks and and uh norman lear and you just dick van dyke so they were on the – I was interviewing them. And for no apparent reason, Mel Brooks gets up and does a Bill Cullen impression. And it was the most hilarious and awkward thing and so amazing that he would tell the story. He had been a guest on a panel show that Bill Cullen was hosting. And you know who Bill Cullen was, of course.

Of course, yeah. Well, Bill Cullen was standing behind a podium and at the end of the taping, he came out to greet Mel Brooks and thank him. And Bill Cullen had had polio as a child. So when he came walking towards Mel Brooks, Mel Brooks thought he was kidding and aped the polio walk towards Bill Cullen.

And then, you know, Cullen said, oh, well, yeah, I had polio. And Mel Brooks said he was absolutely aghast until Cullen said, no one's had the balls to do that. No one's had the balls to do that. And I heard Mel Brooks in an interview say when Cullen was walking toward him, he thought, oh, and I thought he was imitating Jerry Lewis. Yeah, there you go. But to actually see him do it on stage and Dick Van Dyke was sitting next to me and Dick Van Dyke's looking at me like, can we leave now? He's down to the Bill Cullen material. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was funny. He's doing Vegas, Mel Brooks. He's doing some short residency in Vegas. You know he'll tell that Bill Cullen story. Oh, I hope he does. I hope he does, because it is. And it was kind of self-effacing of him to tell it, too, because it doesn't necessarily show him in the most flattering light. but as polio walks go he's got his down i gotta say what an honor to be asked to do that

and with so many of your heroes such a treat it was such a treat and it really came from george shapiro uh who manages carl and carl's nephew uh he called me and said we're going to do the screening and we'd like you to moderate the panel discussion. I said, geez, okay. And Mel gets up at one point and goes, Tom, no offense, but you're superfluous.

We're all self-starters here. Hilarious. Yeah, yeah. I go, well, I can't really argue with that. I mean, it's really the one of these things is not like the other on this stage right now. We got to get George on this show,

George Shapiro. Oh, he's wonderful. He's natural for us. He's. We've got to get George on this show, George Shapiro. Oh, he's wonderful. He's natural for us. He's wonderful. We've got to get him in here. He's just great. Because you're a Van Dyke guy from way back. You're a Dick Van Dyke show guy.

Absolutely. Well, you're a fan of all the physical. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And Van Dyke was, you know, for me growing up, loving as I did Chaplin, Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Langdon, all these, Laurel and Hardy, the Stooges. But Dick Van Dyke was like the modern version of – and especially when he would do his Stan Laurel.

Oh, sure. On the Van Dyke show. But it was just great. And I actually got to – on the Breakfast Time show, Mary Tyler Moore was on. And I got to do the tumble over in Ottoman to the Dick Van Dyke show theme and have her critique it, which was really cool. We had, we had, uh, had bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. And I did the boom. And I said, what'd you think? I thought I had nailed it. And she said, no, you telegraphed it. You looked like you knew you were going to

hit it. I said, all right, that's fair. Yeah. I got, I got dissed by Mary Tyler Moore for my pratfall, but it was cool. She was, she was a trip. She loved that apartment that we did the show in. So again, like the old Letterman show, we could do whatever we wanted. So I said to her, I said, well, Mary, since you were Mary Tyler Moore, if I give you 60 seconds on the clock, whatever you can carry, you can keep.. Oh that's great. And she went around the apartment taking shoes out of the closet took a painting off the wall and she was like holding all

this stuff as she got into her limo. We had a camera outside the studio and she's going I love this show. And the producer wasn't thrilled because a lot of that stuff they had purchased specifically. You guys did so much. Was it breakfast? Was it after breakfast the one where you decided to jump into the giant glass of orange juice? Yeah, because I was so pissed at the producers.

Yeah, I was so angry at where the show had gone when we went to network. They had fired Lori Hibbert, my co-host. They had fired Al as the puppet. And it was becoming this bland daytime show. So we had a doctor on a pediatrician to talk about the importance of vitamin C. I wish I had known the Cesar O'Meara story then. You drop your pants, you get some boy toys, and just spread the cheeks and hope for rain. But there was this six-foot glass of Tropicana orange juice out on Fifth Avenue, this massive thing,

and this pediatrician talking about the importance of vitamin C. And I just was so angry at how the show had devolved from what it was on cable that I was looking at the vitamin C, and I said—and Gregory Harrison, the actor, was out there. Oh, sure, from Trapper John. From Trapper John, was out there. And I said, you know what, doctor actor, was out. Oh, sure, from Trapper John. From Trapper John. Yeah. Was out there. And I said, you know what, Doctor, I got to be honest with you. I haven't heard a word you said. All I want to do is jump in that orange juice.

Because that would have been something I would have done in a second on The Breakfast Time Show. And the producer, who I was having issues with, I could hear in my IFB, don't you? And I just pulled it out on camera. Gregory Harrison gave me 10 fingers up, and I've got pictures of that in the book. Yeah, it's in the book. Just going into this massive glass of orange juice, absolutely dropping into it. It pours out all over the sidewalk on Fifth Avenue, and I was exfoliated to within an inch of my life. And it was liberating because it was like,

it was the ultimate F you to Fox. You were breaking free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was great TV. It was great TV. Welcome back to maybe the longest first $1,000 game we've ever had. Valerie going for a five-square win here. Where are you going?

Gilbert got me for the win. Wow, what a surprise. Okay. Gilbert, in a poll, 94% of Hungarians compared to only 46% of Americans said doing this was necessary to feel fulfilled. Doing what? Seeing Wayne Newton live. Having a child. I disagree.

You fool! Having a child is correct, David. Gilbert Gottfried. Gilbert Gottfried. All right, Gilbert. David? Gilbert Gottfried. Gilbert Gottfried. All right, Gilbert. We love you. Here we go. This happened

first season, too, didn't it? When she heard that Phileas Fogg had done it in 80 days, journalist Nellie Bly beat him by doing it in 72 days.

What did she do? Get through to the cable company. No, I know this. Trust me. This is rowing the Atlantic. I'm going to agree. You fool!

She went around the world in 72 days. If you're just tuning in, welcome to the Gilbert Gottfried Show. Gilbert Gottfried! Gilbert Gottfried! It's French designer named it the Atom because of its small size and the explosive effect a woman would have when she wore it today It's better known as

But your thumbs covering it Tube top The tube top. I agree. You fool! We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Let's see here. I'm going to ask you as we... Oh, is this a speed round coming up? We do a thing called Grill the Guest, so I just want to get to a question.

But we'll wait for Gil's question. At one point, one of the ideas they had for Hollywood Squares was to do a grill round with the contestants. Yeah. And one of the celebrities would stand with them supposedly helping out. They never did. Yeah, yeah. But it was one of those things where you go, hmm. They did about, and it was towards the end of the run, I think.

They did about four or five variations on that end game, and that was one of them. And it wasn't the, yeah, it wasn't. Because they were trying to move it so fast that it was – I think they wanted it to work more like, you know, who wants to be a millionaire or that kind of – Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because that was really big at that point, the primetime version of that. Yeah. Here's the question from our listener, Mitch Miller.

Oh, Mitch Miller. I hope it's not Mitch Miller. Question for Tom. What was going through your mind when Gilbert was doing his infamous you fool outburst? This was just the best. I mean, it was sort of like that April Fool's joke when you know you're in the midst of something that is really working, even if in the case of the April Fool thing, it seemed like it was just craziness. In the case of that, it was just magical because they kept missing it. One after another, one after another.

And you were the only one. And everybody else was starting to play and yell, you fool. And it just built to this wonderful comic crescendo that you can't plan for that kind of stuff. It goes back to what we said at the outset. You know, some people might have stopped, but we all knew this was gold. This was just absolutely gold. And no better person to have it happen with than you at the very end because you were merciless with them, you know.

You weren't trying to make nice or make them feel better or anything. It was great. You fool! I assume he was the last celebrity left because both of them were avoiding choosing him i'm sure that had nothing to do with it it was just i'm sure and i remember at one point you you you announced if if we go into another round we're all going out for drinks. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because it was just crazy. And it was great, too, because it was one of those moments where you forget you're on a TV show.

That's right. You're just going nuts and you forget. And the audience was going crazy with it, and the crew was dying laughing. going crazy with it, and the crews dying laughing. And, you know, it was just this wonderful thing that really transcended the, not the monotony, but the predictability of doing a show with a certain restricted format time after time after time. And suddenly it just became this other thing that was really great. And people still cite it as one of their favorite game show moments.

They have it on YouTube. Yeah, no, it's YouTube. Yeah, yeah. No, it's great. And great joke writing on that show. Yeah. Jay Raddick, Dave Boone, Chris Valanche. Absolutely. Everybody was funny.

Yeah, everybody was funny. This is an interesting quote from the book that I have to ask you about. You said that growing up is a liability in show business. I think so. I think so. I think you have to maintain a certain, regardless of what you're doing, you have to maintain a certain wide-eyed wonder about stuff. Otherwise, you kind of atrophy. And yeah, I don't, like I'm 62 now. I don't feel, this isn't what I thought 62

would feel like, the maturity level of a nine-year-old. It's funny. That gets us back to Jerry Lewis again. Yeah. And he would say this in a very cold, intellectual way. Yeah. But it always made sense. And he would go, the reason that I'm popular still is because I'm nine and I still have that wonder yeah of looking at the world yeah because I'm not an adult I'm nine yeah and I thought that that's basically it yeah

it never rang true when he said it no no when he No, no, when he said it. As a concept, but yeah, he just, he seemed, and I marveled at his talent as a young guy, but I remember watching him like host of The Tonight Show and all that, and he just seemed like an asshole. Yeah. He really did. And so I was really pleased to meet him, and like your experience with him, he was always very nice to me. And as a matter of fact, when Parade Magazine wanted to do a cover surrounding the Jerry Lewis Telethon, but with me and one of the young kids, I didn't want to run afoul of him at all. So I actually got in touch with him.

I got this lovely letter from him saying, no, this is great. We're very happy to have you do it. And so my relationship with him was always, to the extent that I had one, was always very gracious and all that. But as a kid, watching him, you know, be sort of the ponderous Jerry Lewis, which is even evident in that answer.

Oh, yeah. I'm nine. You know, well, just act nine then, you know. Do the voice, lady! You know, something. I remember when they were honoring him, like putting his name on front of the Friars Club and they had a speech going on. And that was one of those wonderful moments where he was just being dopey.

Yeah. And he would be yelling stuff out while people were talking. And he'd yell and laugh. And then he'd turn, and I was sitting next to him. So he'd turn and grab onto my arm and laugh in my face. That's not bad. Like pulling me in on the joke. Tell Tom what he said to you about, yeah.

One time at one of the, like some friar's thing or something, I went on and performed. I'm a usual dirty, crazy stuff I'm doing. And he walks over to me afterwards and he goes, Gilbert, you are out of your fucking mind. And I wouldn't want you any other way. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. That's nice. He seemed like he could enjoy other people.

Yes. You know, and that's a big thing. I mean, it's not a world that I work in, but comics don't always like to see other comics score. No. comics don't always like to see other comics score. No. I forget whose line this was, but somebody said,

how many comedians does it take to screw in a light bulb? A hundred. One to screw in the light bulb and 99 to go, how did he get a light bulb? He sucks. What was your stand-up like when you came to New York? It was very short-lived. It was very short-lived.

Because I didn't have a sensibility or a persona. There was a place called the Magic Townhouse. Does it even exist anymore? I don't even know. And I was the only non-magician on the bill. My only good joke is now I'm on stage to make the audience disappear. And I did this like open mic nights and things like that. But I would do like character sketches.

And so I didn't have a stand-up persona. And I quickly realized that wasn't my milieu. So I went back to broadcasting. Well, that's one of the things that's great about the book. I'm hosting as fast as I can. It's the story of somebody jumping around, kind of trying to find, you knew you wanted to be an artist, you knew you wanted to be on the radio, you did all these things. You were a cartoonist for a while, you were a mime for a while. It's a great journey. I said it had all of the coherence of a hostage note. All these things cut together to put a resume together.

And you gave a reason. What was your reason for not being a mime? My reason for not being a mime? Yes. I don't know. What was your reason for not being a mime for my reason for not being a mime yes um i don't know what was my reason you said there was some kind of quote from you that uh you decided to not continue being a mime because people hate them oh yeah oh well there's that yeah that people do yeah and it's unfortunate because you know i look at somebody like the person I studied with, Tony Montanaro or Marcel Marceau. They were real artists. But then, you know, you got – I blame Shields and Yarnell.

Oh, that's funny. I blame Shields and Yarnell. Everything turned at that point. And it became sort of easy to pick on mimes. But I remember going to see Marceau on Broadway when I was a teenager and on a school trip and being absolutely mesmerized by what he could do alone on stage. And for me, loving silent film comedy the way I did, that was the modern equivalent to me of physical comedy. And there was this one time on Breakfast Time on FX where Marcel Marceau had been booked to do the,

I think the Pepsi commercial that Michael Jackson was going to do. And then his hair caught on fire. Remember? Michael Jackson's hair caught on fire. They canceled that. And so Marcel Marceau was still in town. So he came and did our show. And I got to do on live television side by side with Marceau, you know, doing some of the standard. And basically him correcting me and giving me tips. And I had this master class. It only lasted a few minutes, but it was just amazing. It's pretty good now what you're doing. Thank you.

You still have the. You know, it's all in the wrist. It's all in the wrist. Still convincing. That is a great gag that Mel Brooks did in Silent Movie. Oh, yeah. Wonderful. The only person who spoke. Yeah.

The great gag. At the end of the movie was Marcel Marceau. That's right. That's a great gag. Yeah. That was brilliant. Well, you want to plug your friend's book there? Let's see if I don't fuck this up.

Before we go, Tom, you want to say anything about somebody that was near and dear to you that you both worked with, Mr. Ritter? Oh, yeah. Well, John was – I loved having him on the show. I remember one time – because we shot Hollywood Squares on the same stage that Jack Benny did his show. that Jack Benny did his show. And there was this little thing with a bunch of cables in it, just a little box that had cables and stuff, but it had the logo of the Jack Benny show on the side.

And I remember dragging John over to it, and the two of us stood there with like this sense of reverence. But he was wonderful. He was just funny and uh and and just a lovely lovely guy gilbert you worked with him i remember the light well we did the two problem child movies oh yeah yeah right where he met uh amy yeah amy aspec yeah and i remember the last time i saw him um the hollywood squares was shooting in new york i think it was or maybe la and

they called me in that day because they weren't i wasn't booked for that day but they thought one of the other guests might be dropping out and backstage i bumped into john ritter and after we had both worked on the Problem Child movies. And I remember he was like twice my size. Yeah, yeah. And he puts his arms out and he goes, hey, buddy. And he gives me a big hug. That's sweet.

Yeah. He was – I think the last time I saw him, I would visit him on the set of Eight Simple Rules. Lois and I would go and visit and go out to dinner with him and Amy. At the last Hollywood Squares, I think this was – I noticed something just seemed off. He – because I would see all of you guys all the time while others were being asked questions. And John's energy was just very – almost like unfocused until he was called on. And then he would, and it wasn't long after that,

that he had that aortal thing. Great talent. Yeah. And another good physical comedian. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful physical comedian. And he credited Van Dyke with a lot of inspiration for a lot of the stuff,

a lot of the Jack Tripper, was that his name? On Three's Company, that he would do a lot of Van Dyke. I even asked him about that. I said, some of your takes were very Van Dyke-ish. And he goes, oh, yeah. It's funny how everybody's doing somebody from a previous generation. Van Dyke's doing Laurel. There were a couple of facial expressions that he did on Three's Company that were very Jerry Lewis.

Yes, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, yeah, Van Dyke did Stan Laurel. Carson did Benny. I mean, it is always that. Well, Carson borrowed everything. I mean, he was doing Reggie Van Gleeson, Art Fern. That's right. Doing Jonathan Winters. Yeah. And Blabby. I also remember leaving Hollywood Squares one day and the driver told me he had just had John Ritter and Amy Yazbeck in the car. And he said, oh, I drove Gilbert Gottfried. And John Ritter said, oh, I know him really well.

And Amy says, well, I worked with him more times than you. He says, no, I think I worked with him. And they got into an argument in the car who worked with me more. Yeah, it wouldn't take much to trigger them. Great talent. Before we end this, I just want to test your anger management again. Oh, yes, go ahead. Suck my dick, Tom.

Well, Lois is still here. She's in the other room. This would be wrong. But do you have any tangerine slices? Just settle for a tangelo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A persimmon. Yeah, that's right. So I guess it's still working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A persimmon. Yeah, that's right.

So I guess it's still working. Yeah, it's good. I want to thank Lois, too, for making this episode possible. Thank you. Thank you, Lois. We have been talking to Tom Bergeron. I had to look at your name. Oh, yeah.

Look at the introduction. It's all bad sign. And you should all read his book, I'm Hosting As Fast As I Can, host of ABC's Dancing With the Stars, Zen and the Art of Staying Sane in Hollywood. It's available at fine bargain bins across the country, holding up some of America's finest windows.

Also, the audio books on Audible. Oh, plug that for sure. And Amazon. And what else is coming up? You're taking a little time off in the summer? Taking a little time off, and we do our season 25 of Dancing with the Stars on ABC starting in September. Love to boon? Yes.

I shall pass that along. Absolutely. This has been an absolute pleasure, and I'm so glad Dara showed up. By the way, loved the documentary. Where is that being shown? Is it widely available? The documentary called Amazingly Enough Gilbert. I know.

You forgot the title for a second there, didn't you? Yes, yes. I blanked out on the title of a documentary about me. Well, there's been so many documentaries about me. The whole Ken Burns series was amazing. That was me during the Civil War.

Yeah, it was. When I used to entertain the troops. I don't know. Gray? Blue? What do I look best in? That's one of the best impressions we've had of you in here. That really is. Better than Rich Littles. Oh, is that right?

So is it Amazon Prime? It's in theaters. Your documentary called Gilbert. I'll help you with this. It's in theaters in December. And it's on Amazon Prime in December. So September in theaters. Just in time for Christmas.

Yeah. Because there's no better. There's no better Christmas gift. There's no better Christmas present than a documentary about... Gilbert Gottfried. Yes. And by the way,

if you've ever yearned to have a hotel soap collection, a shampoo collection, you are going to be so jealous when you watch this documentary. Well, to be fair, there's also skin lotion, shampoo. Yeah, no, that's true.

And about nine robes. Yeah. Thanks for this, Steve. A pleasure. So we've been talking to someone who's really a mean, loud prick. Oh, fuck off. What is it? You guys have a Hollywood Squares flashback?

See, so now everybody at the anger management thing say, well, I wasn't one of his people. That's right. He's going to be coming in for another 10-pack. We've been talking to our friend Tom Bergeron. The perfect guest. We never had a guest help you with a plug. There you go.

Plug his own documentary. What a guy. Thanks, Tom. You bet. Thank you.