Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Treat Williams

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

GGACP celebrates the life and career of our friend, the late actor, writer and cinephile Treat Williams by revisiting this interview from 2019. In this memorable episode, Treat looks back at his 45 years in film, his admiration for Frank Capra and William Wyler, his love of old movie theaters and his memories of working with legendary directors Milos Forman, Sergio Leone and Steven Spielberg. Also, Vincent Price disses Alan Thicke, John Belushi auditions for "Hair," Gilbert hangs with Katharine Hepburn and Treat cameos in "The Empire Strikes Back"! PLUS: "The Phantom"! Praising Bob Balaban! The mastery of Sidney Lumet! Gene Hackman cuts to the check! And Treat remembers James Cagney, Martin Landau and Orson Welles! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter P pounder today and discover how words are so unnecessary for a limited time only at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough For something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks Here's another Gilbert and Franks

Here's another Gilbert and Franks Colossal Classic People, this is Phil Rosenthal and I'm on Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. Why aren't you listening? Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and our engineer Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is one of the most respected and prolific stage and screen actors of his generation. You've seen him in popular TV shows like Blue Blood, Chicago Fire, Brothers and Sisters,

White Collar, Heartland, CSI, Chesapeake Shores, and Everwood. But it's his work on the big screen that's brought him the most acclaim and attention in memorable films. He's spoofing you already. Yes. Like The Ritz, 1941. Once Upon a Time in America, The Phantom. Smooth Talk, Dead Heat.

The Devil's Zone, Deep Rising. The Pursuit of D.B. Cooper, Mulholland Falls, Hollywood Ending, 127 Hours, and a movie we love to talk about on this podcast, Sidney Lumet's Prince of the City. Four decades ago, he starred along with our recent... Gilbert, I'm falling asleep. Get to the point. Cut to the chase, Gilbert. Get through that part. I'm boring myself.

Yes. Now, see, this also serves as your... Who wrote this crap? This will work as your obituary, too. I would never let it climb. Yeah, yeah. Found dead in his New York apartment. My obituary said, I told you I was sick.

That's all I want my gravestone to say. And he worked with shitloads of people. Blah, blah, blah. Let's get talking. And the Andrews sisters. Oh, yes, the Andrews sisters. Appeared many times on Ed Sullivan. Did an acclaimed production of Playhouse 90.

All right, at least read the last part so people know who it is. Let's do the silent film career. I was in Wings. Worked with Mary Philbin. Worked for Calvary Tree Service in Stanford, Connecticut. Doc Boy at Yacht Haven. It's all good. All right.

Let's get to it. Co-wrote films. Do that part so people know who it is. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. Please welcome. See, I. Okay. Please welcome. See, I rushed ahead to please welcome.

Please welcome. I'm going to become Gilbert Gottfried tonight. The previous host of Candy Camera with Derwood Kirby. camera with Derwood Kirby. When it's least expected, you're elected. It's your lucky day. Smile! You're on candid camera.

Boop-a-doop. Nice. With the hocus-pocus. You're in focus. Okay, I got it Alright, here's the trivia Who was on candid camera in the bookshop Telling the endings of all the books Was it Woody Allen? God darn it, you

Yes, it was Woody Allen Yes, a man you would later work with I would Well, how about telling the audience who we're talking to? You know what, I'm going to go home We're done, That's it. I'm the mystery guest. He's the mystery guest who we've talked about

many times and he's finally here. We have the very talented Herd Hatfield. Now there's a reference. He's a movie buff so he'll understand that reference. Is that a picture of Dorian Gray? Yes. Very good. Clifton Webb is? Yes. Yes. Yeah, very good. Clifton Webb is here.

We have our pal, the very talented John Hodiak. I'll read this. Please welcome to the podcast a favorite actor of Frank's and mine, one of the few performers versatile enough to play... Lionel Atwill Jr. To play J. Edgar Hoover, Jack Dempsey, and Ted Kennedy, the great Treat Williams is here. Treat, welcome.

Thank you. I'm not familiar with your work. No, I'm not either. Sorry. Tell me what you've done. Yeah. Nothing good. You do funny voices, don't you?

Okay. Animals. Aren't you two animals? You're an animal guy. I was the voice of Yogi Bear. Parrots and ducks is all I know from you. That's it. I used to do ducks.

Not anymore. No more ducks. No more ducks. We've all been there. Okay. Enough about you guys. Let's talk about me. Welcome, Drew. Now, one movie a couple of times on this show.

Okay, Frank is leaving. Frank is leaving? Okay, Michael is leaving. It's just you and I. Yeah, see, we didn't like you as a guest from the beginning. What the hell with him? Yeah, fuck him. I'm back.

I did, and it didn't go well. He wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. We ended it. Hilarious. Hilarious. We have a sponsor. Oh, sorry.

We're done already. Okay. This is never going to make the end. Are you distantly related to P.T. Barnum? No, but my uncle hated him. They hated each other's guts. They were both in Connecticut. My uncle was a senator from Connecticut.

Okay. I got bad info. He and Barnum hated each other. Okay. Why? P.T. Because P.T. was not unlike Donald Trump. Ah.

And we'll leave that alone. And so my uncle, who worked for government in a different kind of way, was a senator, and he felt that Barnum was a snake oil salesman. But you are distantly related to a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Yes. Yes. Robert Treat Payne. That's cool. And what's interesting about him is that he was a good friend of the ex-president, John Adams. And during the trial of the Boston Massacre, he represented the Americans.

And as you know, Adams got the English soldiers off. Sure. So I saw the miniseries. So he was the prosecuting attorney. The other thing that I found of interest is a book about whatever happened to all the signers. His son married an actress

and he disowned him for it. Wow. So. Wow. I don't think he and I would be That's telling. would be close. But it's quite an honor.

He's buried in the granary up in Boston. And that's kind of cool to see my name up there. Yeah. It's just cool to have a relative who signed the Declaration. Yeah. I don't think he owned slaves, which is kind of cool. Because most of them did. Cooler still.

That was pretty cool. Yeah. We were talking before we turned the mics on about how nobody remembers anybody anymore. No. Yes. And Treat was saying how people don't know who Humphrey Bogart is. I met someone who doesn't remember David Letterman. He was on the air like a month ago.

Rick Dreyfuss and I were having dinner on a film that fell apart. We were out in Youngstown, Ohio. We were talking about the movie and all. And what happens is you have references when you're doing a movie. And we referenced Jimmy Stewart in the films of Frank Capra. And the set designer said, I'm sorry, who's Jimmy Stewart? Incredible. And Richard and I went into shock.

Yeah. You can't, how do you talk to someone in your business who isn't interested in the history of film and isn't interested in, starting with silent films. Bizarre.

And the comedies of the 20s. Right. And then the screwball comedies of the 30s and the 40s and then film law in the 50s. Sure. You'd think that kids

who came out of film school would know these films. Or get that basic education. I don't want to be the old guy who is. I know. But it's true. They're not interested in the stuff that we grew up studying. It's part of why we do this, too.

They did. We're the only ones left. Just us three. No one's listening to this podcast. They did a review of Benicio del Toro's The Wolfman. Taurus, the Wolfman. And the guy said, it would be good if the movie had him as someone who wants to be cured of this problem. And then he gave us an example of the Incredible Hulk.

And I said, no, like the Wolfman. Too far back. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I know. But your local theater was the Avon Theater. One of them.

I grew up. I was born in Stanford, Connecticut. There were three theaters. There was the Stanford Theater, the Avon, and the other one, I'll think of it. There were three. And then there was the Darien Theater, which was near Row 8 where I grew up. So those four theaters were the theaters. But Stanford was where I did my first theater it's where i had my first two jobs i actually was a dock boy at yacht haven and one day i carried the spaghetti already pre-made with frank sinatra

and and his wife to his boat and i was a dock boy wow. Wow. Oh, boy. Mia Farrow was the wife. Wow. Women were falling off the bows of their boats. That's cool. I'd never really been around that kind of... Fame. I mean, superstardom. Yeah. Where people were basically falling all over themselves.

And he was very polite, very kind. You know, I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, Be careful, that's hot. I'll never forget it. That stayed with you. Oh, it stayed with me for life. It's the deepest thing I've ever heard from a celebrity.

A couple of times on this show, we do a thing where we recommend movies to watch. And one that I recommended that we both love is Sidney Lumet's Prince of the City. Yeah, we did a whole episode about it. Yeah, I heard. Yeah. I'm grateful.

Because it's funny, like Sidney Lumet also did Serpico, which is similar because it also deals with police corruption. But whereas Serpico, which was a great film, it's very black and white. It's Serpico's good, the cops are bad. And in Prince of the City, it's more gray area. Like you're going, okay, the cops are doing bad things, but they're not bad guys.

And you don't know who to side with in Prince of the City. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of an American tragedy. Very much so. Just rewatched it. And I think what Sidney explained to me was that once you turn, you can't turn back. And I think that was the most important point of the film is that this young man got kind of eased into it.

You know, it starts with a donut. It starts with a free cup of coffee. And then you get into narcotics. And then it starts with starting to take a couple bucks here and there or stealing money off the guys that you arrest. And then it's right in the opening scene. The suitcase full of cash opens up. We don't see the guys take it, but it's pretty apparent that they're going to take it. And then, you know, it was written so beautifully by J. Preston Allen that when Bobby has this, you know, argument and he says, these guys can't pay their dentist bills. They can't carpet the upstairs of their homes in Long Island.

And these guys that are getting off are going back to South America and living in gigantic houses. And at some point, you say to yourself, I'm going to take this money from him. It's never going to go back. They're just going to get away with it. I'm going to keep it. And you do kind of understand it, but it's not right. So it's a very, very great – you're right. It was a very difficult, tough –

And it shows that the cops, even though they're breaking the law among themselves they have like a loyalty yes and in some ways who are more trustworthy than the guys who are doing the good work and i became very close with bob lucy who who was the guy we remain friends for life and i think the thing was important is that Bob never thought his his tragic flaw was that he thought he could control he was always so good at manipulating people he thought he could control his environment and then he got involved with people who were much smarter than him and he hadn't been in that aura he he was with other cops people in his you know sort of world and he was the most good the best at being manipulative and and sort of controlling his environment and then these guys came in told

him things were going to be a certain way and he thought he could control them and found out that no he said okay i'm not gonna i just will not rat on my partners but he lost control of it and then things started to go bad and guys started killing themselves and that's when it became an American tragedy I think but it also was indicative of how cyclical corruption is in police departments

it's happened again, we'll go through more and more it's cyclical in government too as you well know it's happened before, it's happened since you made this movie it has to be cleaned up and then everything's okay for a while and then it goes on again. But I thought

Sidney did a great job in telling that story. Tell us about Sidney Lumet. How'd you get the part? Let me talk to you about, this is something that I'm sorry for and about and it's been with me recently in movies and everything I do is for and about, and it's been with me recently in movies and everything I do,

is that Sidney, and I'll do it in two ways. I'll talk about Sidney, but also the fact that Sidney came up through, well, he was a very well-known actor. He actually was Marlon Brando. He took over for Marlon Brando in a play with Paul Muni.

It was called The Flag. And he was a very good actor. He actually starred in a couple movies. His father is one of the great Yiddish actors, Baruch Lamed. So he knew acting and understood it and then he became a director and started directing myriads of television,

live television plays. And he was given his break by Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men. That was his first feature. And he was off and running after the film. But Sidney believed that you rehearsed a movie like a play. So we went down on town on 2nd Avenue. Everybody knew their lines. We rehearsed for three to four weeks. And at the end of the rehearsal period, we did run-throughs of the movie and everybody watched everybody else doing their

scenes i see so we all knew what we were in you'll go into comedy now and you'll say what kind of comedy is this what's the energy is it is it is it broad comedy is it subtle i mean you don't know because you haven't seen the other actors work but in back in the day even hair also which we'll talk about you rehearsed. And the director had a chance to work with everybody. And this thing Sidney did that I loved was you'd get a scene up to speed, and he'd direct you and direct you, and you'd get up to a certain kind of emotional place that was the right place.

And you'd finish that rehearsal take of that scene, and Sidney would go, that's a print. And that was him saying, that's where I want you to be in three weeks or whenever we do it out of context, that's where the scene needs to be. And I want you coming in. I want your motor running because I've got everything. That whole thing about Sidney doing one take, the reason he did one take is everybody was good to go. If the sound was good and the actors were up to speed and

lighting was good camera got the scene why do two he didn't waste any time he didn't and no and didn't waste film no he didn't and he was always he you know he was kind of neurotic about being on time but so that was that was the wonderful thing about him was that he was he would listen forever if you needed to lindsey needed to talk to him a lot i didn't talk much lindsey yeah lindsey krauss needed to sort of talk it out i was more let me just go do it let me try it and if you like it you know then that's what we'll do he'd seen you in greece he'd seen you on stage he'd seen me in hair and hair i think he saw a degree of okay fearlessness okay okay one of the things he used to say was, one thing I'm glad about Treat,

he doesn't really give a damn what anybody thinks of him. I didn't care whether the character was likable or not likable. I just wanted to embody what Bobby did and the character and what he went through. There are some directors known for doing like like about a hundred takes like i think um what was it kubrick yes is one of those i could spend a day on like a five minute scene yeah yeah and oh and i know baruch lamette uh shows up in The Pawnbroker. Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah. Yeah. Were you a fan of his films before? Sidney? Yeah, before meeting him. Oh, my God. Because you're a movie buff. We all wanted to be Al and Bob.

I mean, I tried to hide the fact that I'd gone to prep school. You know, we all wanted to be Italian. Right. And I get to be. Right. But I was a kid who wore penny loafers and shirts with my initials on them. I read that that project started with De Palma before it made its way around to Sydney. I heard about that.

I wasn't aware of that. It knocked around a little bit. It was a difficult film. They wanted another actor who was a movie star, and they made Sydney go out and meet with him, and that didn't go well. And Sydney came back and said, you're still my guy. That's nice. You called him a ball of fire in an interview that I read. Oh, he was extraordinary.

Yeah. He was really extraordinary. I mean, he was, oh, gosh. You know, it's interesting to compare Milos and Sidney. Like, Milos was the kind of director. He didn't do lots of takes, but because we were young and starting out, Milos and Sidney, like Milos was the kind of director, he didn't do lots of takes. But because we were young and starting out, Milos would wait you out. You know, he'd do it again and actors would go over.

I mean, he was talking to Mike Hausman who produced the films and Mike would say, the actors would come over to me and say, why is he asking me to do it again? What am I doing wrong? And Mike would say, well, go ask Milos. But Milos was of a European school where he didn't like acting and he wanted you to stop acting. I see. So he would wait for three or four

or five or ten takes until you stopped acting and started to play. I heard about that with other directors. What we did tonight at the beginning is the kind of thing

that a great director's looking for where it's completely free. Spontaneous. We were relaxed. We weren't thinking about what we were going to say say that should be in a movie we just did i'm serious i i think that's no i'm glad you liked it no that's comedy yeah in its purest form and when you see people trying to be funny and doing the one-liners and you watch the you know you watch the ad for a sitcom and you go oh yeah there's the punchline ohline. That's all you got? You kind of go, I can't. There's a few directors that will purposely rehearse something

to death just so the actor won't act anymore. He'll be too tired to act. When you think of his body of work, and we talk about it, even before The Devil Knows You're Dead, the last film he made, where he was just still on his game. I mean, that's a terrific movie. And what is he, in his 80s at that point? That's amazing to me. I think he and Woody had a lot in common because I worked with Woody Allen, too.

And I think that Sidney and Woody were like, that was their job. They could have been, you know, working down in the garment district. Every year they did a movie. And sometimes the movie failed, sometimes it succeeded, but that's what they needed to do. That's what they did. I make movies. Turn them out.

I make a movie. I'll make movies. And when Sidney wasn't making a movie and things got slow, he wrote one of the best books about filmmaking I've ever seen. It's this big. It's very simple. It's very small. And it's the most concise, sort of honest,

unpretentious book about filmmaking I've read. It's a hard film to watch. I mean, watching the scene where you're slapping your brother around. You should be me watching the film. Is it tough to watch? Oh, I crawl under my seat. Yeah, I talked to Beverly about that.

She said because you were learning to act as a film actor? I knew film acting, but it was just so raw and so emotionally just – it was just – I went to places that in my life I had not been. I see. I had not been responsible for a friend committing suicide, two friends committing suicide. Right. I had not been responsible for bringing down an entire industry, all the cops. I mean, he brought down SIU, the Special Investigating Unit. And the sense of guilt and realization that he thought that he was in control of something that he lost control of and brought this thing down.

I mean, I don't know how people say in the movie, I don't know how you live with yourself. One of the most interesting experiences, and I realized how bad this was for Bob all his life, was Henri Behar, a French journalist, was going to take me around. We were going to take him around New York late at night. So they brought in a police officer,

a current police officer, to make sure that we were okay because we were going to drive around Manhattan late at night. So they brought in a police officer, a current police officer, to make sure that we were okay, because we're going to drive around Manhattan late at night. So this cop and me, and I can't remember, a producer or somebody, and Bob was there, Bob Lucy, the star of the film, or the, you know, who it was about. And we're all introduced, and they said, this is Bob, this is Treat, this is Joe, whatever. And the cop looks at me and says, so what do you think about this fucking rat? I mean, how can you play this fucking rat? How do you do that? I said, well, why don't you ask him? He said, right next to you.

Wow. That was a very uncomfortable moment in my apartment. Wow. Well, how did he live with it? I mean, how did he deal with it? He became a writer. You guys, you said you stayed in touch with him until his death. He only died a couple of years ago.

I don't think he was ever able to explain it. How did he process it? Especially the suicides and... Well, I think at some point in your brain, you have to figure out that the guy was weaker than you were. Sure. I mean, if I were to process it, I would say, well, they weren't Jerry Orbach's character, were they?

They weren't Les Wolfe. Right. Les Wolfe said, fuck you. So I did some shit. I'll throw you out on your pointy little head out the window. I don't care. This is what we did.

And we did it, and I'm proud of it. And the audience cheered. Yeah. They loved him. Yeah, it's interesting. They're owning it. Am I allowed to say these words? Yes, absolutely.

Okay. So I think Jerry sort of was the hero of the piece by saying, this is what I do. This is what I did, and I'm not ashamed of it, and I'm not going to kill myself. That's what he says. I'll take this desk. I'll throw it out of the window. We put our lives in danger. There is a wonderful speech that I had where I say, you guys don't understand what we do.

We go out into the jungle. We put our lives at stake every single day. And if we find money, we're going to take that money because these guys are bad guys. And we put our lives on the line for it, and nobody's taking care of us. So I'm going to take the guy's money. And that's when I fall apart in that one scene. Yeah, yeah. And that's when they know they've got me.

It's emotional. They've got me because I'm guilty and I want to sort of regain my young Catholicism. They show in the movie, like, even when they're finding out that that character's a rat, they're still remaining loyal to him. Well, I think, yeah, it's a difficult scene. The scene where I confess to them is a really tough scene where I say that I, it's a great line. I say, I did, they say, well, Bobby, you're all good. You didn't, you didn't do anything.

You didn't say anything, did you? And I say, I did some things. That's the most extraordinary line to me in the movie. When Bob says, or my character, Danny Cello says, I did some things and they's the most extraordinary line to me when Bob says, or my character Danny Cello says, I did some things and they're all staring at me. And it's the beginning of the confession to them

that he had talked. But he says, the whole point is I didn't want to bring you guys down. And they actually show compassion for him at that point. Because I don't think they still think that they're going to be brought down too at that point.

Good cast too. Balaban and Horbach. Bob is extraordinary. And Carmen Caridi, who we just lost. Carmine Caridi. Did he die? He just died a couple of months ago. Yeah.

He was wonderful. Everybody was wonderful. Carmine. James Tolkien and all those character actors. No, it was an honor to be in that cast. And I read something Milos said about Jack Nicholson when they were doing the film that Milos did with him, Cuckoo's Nest. And he said that Jack was just like one of the actors. There was no Hollywood.

There was no movie star. Jack just wanted to come in and do good work. And I hoped, because I was younger than most of them, that I would be that same guy that I would come in and just be one of the actors.

By the way, there was about over 80 years of time spent in jail amongst that cast. I can imagine. There were some very tough guys. Bobby Alto was in that cast. Oh, that's right.

Yeah, from Alto and Mantia. Yes. Yeah. We love New York City movies. We just love, and that's one of the reasons we love Lumet stuff. We love to look at old New York. Oh, yeah. You know, in Serpico and Bye Bye Braverman.

Oh, Gene Halpern's car chase. Yeah. Oh, and the French Connection, too. In fact, when I run away from the guys watching me on 8th Avenue, just around a corner from here, Sidney put the camera up on a building and there was no permissory stuff going on. I was knocking people over. Oh, that's great.

I'm sure they're going to come after me now. And then that he could turn around and make something like The Hill or Murder on the Orient Express, and The Verdict. I mean, he's just such a master of the different forms. Yeah, I mean, the great directors. I mean, he's just such a master of the different forms. Yeah, I mean, the great directors, the directors that I love are the ones where you don't see their imprint on the film.

Yeah. It's not, you know, William Wyler is my favorite sort of director of that period. Because there's no such thing as a William Wyler film. Right. His films were all completely the film of the story and the period. And the style is completely different in each film. He served the master which is the text.

So it's not like the Capra Touch where you know you're getting a Capra or a Sturgis or a Ford. Yeah, and I worked with John Sturgis in The Eagle Has Landed. And I loved him. There's a different style. Capra had a style but I adore Frank Capra films. Well, he always talked about

the old directors with the studio system that they said they were these kind of directors that if you said we're directing a Western, they direct a Western. If it's a love story,

it's a love story. Well, Michael Curtiz. Yeah. Yeah. Like Casablanca Mildred Pierce would just turn him out yeah

I love the stories about Curtiz yeah I love the story where you know he said Bogart just look over there

and nod your head why? oh just do it and it's when he's nodding for them to sing you know the French anthem

Bogart had no idea he just looked over and okay do it it was like one of the great moments in the film and Bogart didn't idea. He just looked over and went, okay, do it. It was like one of the great moments in the film, and Bogart didn't know why he was doing it. You read Bogdanovich's book, Who the Devil Made It? I'm not sure. You'll enjoy that.

I'll get you a copy. It's a good read. I just finished Milos' book, which I adored. I just finished it this week, which is Turning Around, which is a great book, too. That scene in Casablanca where they're singing the French allegiance or trying to drown out the Nazis. That's wonderful. They said, like, the war was still going on at that time.

And they said there are people there. The people crying were actually crying. Of course. Now I'm going to make him do something for you, since you're such a movie buff. Give him a little bit of your Peter Lorre impression. No, it's you who handled it. You and your

stupid attempt to buy it. Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder we had such an easy time getting it. You blundering fathead. You bloated idiot.

Reek! Reek! Help me, Reek! Reek! You've got to help me. You've got to save me. I stick my neck out for no one. There you go, Trio. I was... My favorite line in that movie

is, Mr. Rick, what is the captain like? What kind of a man is he? He's like any other man, except more so. And then there's that line Sidney Greenstreet has

where he goes, leaving Casablanca now would take a miracle and I'm afraid that the Germans have outlawed miracles. Great stuff. And yet the Epsteins who wrote that script were tired of hearing about it

toward the end of their lives. Can you imagine? I heard a story that somebody actually put the script out as a modern day film and pitched it to all the studios and everybody passed.

Oh, God. So going to the movies as a kid at the Avon and other theaters, and I mention the Avon because I think it's still around, right?

Didn't you do something? Didn't you and Beverly were at a hair celebration? Oh, just two weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. So that's nice to see that the original... Well, I produced and starred in a film called The Congressman, and I went down to the Avon about two years ago,

and we did a presentation. And there's a lovely guy, Adam, who runs the theater. How nice that it's still there. They're doing a great job. It's an art house now, and it's gorgeous. In fact, they've made two theaters. The Balcony is one theater, and the House is another another so we went back and did that and that went well and this is where i started i did my first musical there i did i did west side story at the local high school

that was the first time i was ever in a musical on stage and uh then he said would you like to come back and do here so i got everybody together i. I got John Savage, but D'Angelo, Donnie Dacus, Dorsey Wright, we all came. And they did a beautiful job. You know, it's a great print. It was lovely. But I went there as a kid. It was where I was born, where my dentist was.

I had two jobs. But I saw all the big movies there. It was a big movie house. So I saw Lawrence of Arabia. I saw Sound of Arabia uh huh I saw Sound of Music in fact when Sound of Music

uh when you know I'd never seen a film that had an intermission oh yeah and when the intermission came on Sound of Music

I turned to my friend I said what the fuck is with what the hell is that that's not the end of a movie Lawrence of Arabia

that sucks I want my money back and I turned out you know it was to go get more candy and Lawrence of Arabia also had an intermission and they had a thing

which I'd never seen I said what's that French word on tract what is that and they played ya da da da da da da da da

just black just as the audience came in you got to know that wonderful wonderful wonderful theme. It's a way of life seeing movies that way in those kind of theaters. I'm so glad I grew up one. And that's something we talk about on the show a lot. And then it's like how the whole life of seeing movies in theaters is gone.

Yeah, just about. In L In LA, they do a pretty good job. I mean, they've hung on to the Chinese theater. There's the Cinerama Dome. There's the Tarantino Water Revival House. I think there are groups of people who really like this, and I think, to be honest with you, it's our job. It's my job to get my son

to want to continue this process of saying, yes, it's wonderful to have a screening room in your home. I have a beautiful screening room in my home, finally. I was always the shoemaker who had no shoes, and we finally put a big screen in our house in Vermont. But there's something about being in a darkened place with a group of strangers who all come together

to experience this extraordinary thing called film. And I don't know how we, well, what we're doing right now is a way of keeping it going. It is an exquisite, almost religious experience. You know, interestingly, George C. Scott used to say theater was church.

This is our church. I think movie theaters are in a way a form of church where people come together and experience something as a group. And it's just very different when you're talking to your family in a room and you're going to get your pizza that you put in the microwave as opposed to sitting in a theater darkened and really becoming immersed in this event.

Well, we don't know Vermont. I mean, how are they doing in terms of preserving that experience? Well, our theater just closed. We had an art house in town that just closed. It is. Yeah, because here just closed. We had an art house in town that just closed. It is. Yeah, because here it's happening left and right. I will do everything I can to find a way that we can create something that people do want to go to. I don't know if it was well run or not.

I certainly didn't support it in a way that I should have, but I'm not there half the year. I'm doing other things. And your son's making movies now. My son just made an extraordinary film. I'd like to talk about it because he's i think he's going to be a very very good filmmaker and he he lived with the the world champion beat boxers in brooklyn okay gil williams isn't there gil yeah for two years and you know we were all nervous he was nervous to see the film and so he he made a film

he followed them and and did a film about these guys going to europe and and performing and competing in something that the we don't yet know about it's sort of a kind of like rap when it started it's an extraordinary art form where they take a microphone and it's that kind of thing they make these extraordinary sounds with their they they're beyond what i that do. Yeah, it's impressive. And I thought it was going to be like, I'm going to watch like two hours of the guys making, you know. And what it turned out to be was Russians and Koreans and Americans and Frenchmen, Canadians,

all these kids competing, competing with the enormous amount of love for one another's talent and work. And when one would win, the other would hug them. And I saw these Russian guys that were extraordinary. Just they were bonding in a way that I thought, why can't the people running the countries learn from these kids? So it isn't just about beatboxing, it's really about our younger generations wanting to be close and wanting to share a common love of something. What's the name of the picture? Beatbox House. Beatbox House.

Because the guys all live together. Oh no, it will be great, and we're working one of the best sound houses here in New York. Is that what your son's attracted to, documentaries? My son is a writer, director, actor, singer. He's already surpassed me. Oh nice. No, he's extraordinary. So it's attracted to, documentaries? My son is a writer, director, actor, singer. He's already surpassed me. How nice.

No, he's extraordinary. So it's going to be a great film. And it already is, and people are really responding to it. Good. We'll look for it. Beatbox. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast right after this. That's what you say. Meow, meow, meow. Meow, meow, meow. Meow, meow, meow.

They are the two that you can find. They'll put a tiger in your tank. They're Gilbert and Frank. And now we return to the show. Okay, now one film I have to bring up. Oh, God. Here it comes. You're not going to Piscopo, are you? Were you in it?

No, no. 1941, were you in it? No, I wasn't in that one. Dead Heat, were you in it? Dead Heat. Lucky you. He was a corpse. No, I wasn't in it.

I wasn't in it. Do you know the meaning of the word nadir? Yes. It's a low point. Yes, I wasn't in it. I wasn't in it. Do you know the meaning of the word nadir? Yes. It's a low point. Yes, I think we do. Okay, then we could move on. Okay. No, I'll talk to you about it.

He worked with Piscopo on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, on Saturday Night Live, I worked with Piscopo. Well, he was very good at his Frank Sinatra doing rock and roll. Yes, he was. Wait, listen. Vincent Price is in it. One of our favorite actors. Number one son is in it. Darren McGavin. Wait a minute. Vincent Price is in it One of our favorite actors Number one son is in it

Darren McGavin Wait a minute Vincent Price Darren McGavin Key Luke Me Yeah Reasons to see it

Now the movie was a piece of shit But I did seven hours of makeup For a piece of shit Because I had kids That were going to be in college Tell us about I own that. I'm owning the fact that I was in a piece of shit.

By the way, that's not the only one. When Michael Caine got his first nomination after like 20 years, he walked up to the microphone and everybody looked at him and he said, I've done a lot of shit. And he got a wild

applause. I can't wait to say that tell us your worst pictures we already had Dead Heat tell me when you couldn't go to the toilet this morning it's weird because some of my worst pictures have become

like what's the word they use? Cult? Cult classics. Cult classics. Dead Heat has a cult following. Yeah. The Substitute has a cult following.

A lot of people like Dead Heat. It's online. You can do the research. I think what Brando said was you owe them nothing but not to bore them. them nothing but not to bore them you know like like a cult classic that i think is the kind of film that you really want to be in if you're going to be in a bad movies like mommy dearest where all the gay guys in new york are watching it and talking back to the screen and it's the funniest experience yeah one of the best experiences in a film theater i ever had was watching mommy dearest or showgirls opening Another film like that. It makes it fun.

You know? I've done over 100 films. I think we could, like when he finishes tonight, I'll give you a list of 90. Let me do it this way. Let me say the ones that I like. Because it's more positive. I loved Hair. And there's some that I have a kind of a they're

not great but i i love the ritz because i got to play a wild character that uh i love things to do in denver when you're dead because i got to play a you know a psychopath critical bill hair prince of the city uh and then television i got to play mike ovitz in the late shift for which i was nominated for an emmy yes um i got there are a bunch of stuff that I, you know. The Leone movie. Our streetcar. Once Upon a Time in America. The streetcar Beverly and I did was very, very good.

So there's a bunch of stuff that I'm really proud of. Deep End of the Ocean's a pretty good movie. But I sort of, I don't think, I could, if we went down the list, you'd say, this is shit. I'd go, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that was real shit but you know on the other hand there's something people that love like like deep like deep rising we spent six months on it it's not a good movie but it's fun it's fun yeah it's full of axes in the head and people dying and so is the phantom fun now that's interesting there is a another podcast that gil told me about where apparently i'm the owner survived that. And that's the kind of thing.

I always do a movie I think, you know, I'll talk about them. That's a good movie to talk about in terms of bad movies. It was written by the guy. I can't remember his name. Jeffrey Boehm. Jeffrey wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah, he wrote the third one. Yeah.

Yeah. And I thought, I walked it out and I said, oh, this is great. This is a comic book villain. I know exactly what I want to do with this. And there's this podcast called What Went Wrong or What Happened. Oh, it comes out of here. What's it called? How Did This Get Made.

Thank you, Frank. How Did This Get Made. I had a brain fart. Paul Scherr Show. And Gil told me, he listened to it and said that I survived it. He said the reason I survived it

was they said Tariq Williams, who chews up the scenery in the movie, I had a blast, understood the movie he was in. But unfortunately, I was the only one

in that movie. I think that's accurate. I have never sat through a screening of a movie in Hollywood next to the writer. We watched the screening of the movie, and I went, well, I do what I want to do. I mean, I came up with stuff where when I was fighting with Billy Zane with the rings,

I was running on the beach, and I thought, what if these rings with these powerful rings back and forth, what if when I lean forward, I go past gravity? And they went, oh, that's good good so they rigged me up with a with a wire so that I'm pushing toward and this is my idea pushing toward Billy and I go past the possibility and I'm leaning down almost to the ground and then I come back up again because he's like beating me with the ring you know the ring power and I thought that was fun that was a kind of like wild stuff you come up with but I sat next to the writer

in the screening and when the lights came up there was this silence and you know the director I loved him he was a wonderful guy Simon Windsor

Simon should not be directing you know comedy he's coming off free willy I love you Simon but yeah free willy

but you freed me from a career. The lights come up and the writer, you just mentioned. Jeffrey Boehm. Jeffrey Boehm just looks at the staring at the screen and he goes, what happened to my movie? Oh, boy. Oh, that's awful. So for me to talk about my lousy films, I'm going to hurt a lot of feelings. Oh, no.

We won't go into detail. By the way, you played it like a... I always say, they say, you know, you do a lot of shit films, and you say, yeah, but I got a nice house. Yeah. And I got a swimming pool. So shut up and leave me alone. You're one to talk about taking a check in bad films, Gilbert.

Oh, Christ. Oh, really? I'm still waiting. Yeah, but it's just your voice. It's just your voice. No, he's on camera in a lot of them, my friend. Are you? Okay.

Oh, yes. I'm still waiting. I'm proud of all of them. I'm sorry. He was in a movie called Funky Monkey. Yes. That's my favorite film! Yes.

Bring up Bongo, whatever his name is. Bedtime for Bonzo. Bedtime for Bonzo. Bedtime for Bonzo. I remember one movie I had a part in, and the review was, God save us all. That was... All right, I'm going to tell you my favorite review. I have a boat on a lake up in Vermont. I have a boat, too.

Some bad movies got me a boat. No apologies needed. And there's an island called Neshobi Island on Bobazine Lake it belonged to Alexander Wolcott who was the New York Times

critic and everybody went there Harpo went there great book Harpo Speaks and he talks about going up on the island stripping off all his clothes

and then running back to LA we had Harpo's son on this very podcast Bill Marks a couple of weeks ago oh I'd love to meet him we'll send you the link

oh I'd love to hear him. Yeah, we'll send you the link. Yeah. Oh, I'd love to hear it. So, Alexander was, you know, questionably liked boys as much as girls. And he met this young man from South America who he thought was an extraordinary actor. And his name was Guido Nazo. Guido Nazo. And he wanted to make him a star. So, he put him in a play in New York and George Kaufman

wrote the review and at the end of the review he said as for the star Guido Nazo is not so Guido that's funny you played it sort of like a Bond villain in the Phantom you were having fun cartoon Bond villain in The Phantom. You just... Oh, it was way beyond the Bond.

No, it was a cartoon Bond villain. You were having fun. I was having fun, but I was... Xander Drax. I was committed. Yes. You know, I was committed. And I remember I had a line where I said,

inflate the boats when we land somewhere. And I did it in such a way during the read-through, I said, oh, yeah, this is the guy. Because I just went, inflate the boats! And all of a sudden everybody went crazy. And I went, oh, okay, this is a comedic villain. You saw him as Clark Gable on acid, you said. Exactly.

Yeah. You got it. Clark Gable on acid. I think my favorite line is when you scream, the skulls have spoken. Well, the skulls of Tuganda. The skulls of Tuganda. I thought it was was show me the power show me the power

and then I went I love this I also liked it when I threw the spear through that was great Joe it was Joe Ranio

I think and I threw the spear through a guy and while I was talking I ripped it out of his body without missing a beat yes i had a blast yeah it's clear that you did could you tell us about vincent price

working with him well i didn't know him well he you know it was like meeting the most elegant man you'd ever met in your life he was sitting you know i met these guys after in 1941 i worked to shira mifune, Christopher Lee. Doug Taylor. All of a sudden, yeah. Or, you know, yee-haw. Slim Pickens. Slim Pickens.

What a cast. He came on set, and I think at that point he'd been on so many movies, he probably didn't know which movie he was in. But he had this lovely suit on, sitting in the chair, cross-legged, just waiting for his moment. He was just polite and elegant and and present and lovely but it was like meaning you know uh the uncle you'd never met who who was just the nicest most calm reasonable you know here are these old pros sitting there at you know one or two in the morning and i was getting angry because they didn't know what they were doing. And when you do

an indie, you know that's how it goes sometimes. Since you're such a film buff, would you like to hear some of Gilbert's Vincent Price? Of course. I won't compete on this one. I can't do him. Run. Run for your...

No, scream. Scream for your lives. Sc scream for your lives scream for your lives the tingler it's loose in the theater everyone scream scream for your lives we like to keep the guests entertained as we go

and my favorite part of that is after screaming cause the tingler was loose in that theater he goes we we now return to our movie you know the tingler castle movie where they wired the seats oh i know you your butt got yeah yeah yeah they squirted perfume in your face and water in your face. It was like a rubber centipede on a stress turbine. Why did we

all want to be so frightened by that? I remember meeting Vincent Price when I was doing Thick of the Night. Oh, yes. In the Thick of the Night? I love them. Rod Steiger? In the Thick of the Night? A bad talk show. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah of the night. I love them with Rod Steiger. No, no. In the thick of the night. Oh, it's a bad talk show.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, with Alan Thicke. Yeah. And then years later, I ran into Vincent Price somewhere, and I said, you probably don't remember this, but we did the Alan Thicke show together. And he goes, oh, yes yes that was a terrible show let's just talk about 1941 since you brought it up oh let's because you you're so much fun in that movie i had fun and your your your ability with slapstick you know i mean how much work and how much prep went into that

jitterbug fight scene? No, we worked really hard. We went down to a guy that was, you know, had been teaching acrobatics

and we worked very hard with Bobby DiCicco and we did the thing where he runs up the wall and I flip him over the wall. Yeah. I hate eggs.

And the late, great Wendy Jo Sperber. The late, great, and also, what a, you know, when I think about that tank crew, Danny Aykroyd, John Candy. And guess who was driving the tank? Oh, God. I'm trying to remember.

You don't see him much. Mickey Rourke. Mickey Rourke. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And myself. Yeah.

Yeah. Great cast. It was lovely. Yeah. It was lovely. Matt Rolkowitz. We had a lot of fun. I don't remember much of it, but I know we had a lot of fun. Oh, I see. It was one of those. No, it was lovely yeah it was lovely we had a lot of fun i don't remember much of it but i know we oh i see it was one of those no it was just it was it was a period when everybody was

really having a lot of fun and actually we all worked very very hard and did all the rehearsal and um it was fun john and i became good friends and actually yeah and i have to say i don't get to say this much you know this whole drug thing about john we would go to martha's vineyard with our families and you know go clamming and drink beer, and there was no drugs, and there was a lot of— there was a lovely side to John that I think he's been known for being this sort of out-of-control drug addict, but he was—we should remember what an extraordinary talent he was and what a lovely man he was when he was not in the throes of Hollywood.

When we were on Martha's Vineyard, he was delightful. And I remember my cousins were all at my house, and John came over, and he was very good about sort of surreptitiously letting him take pictures with him. And we went clamming, and we grilled him up. There were times with him that it was really just two guys who liked being in the theater. It's a sad loss. He had a lot of talent. He had a lot of energy, a lot of passion, and good work was left to be done.

Yeah. I mean, I think his death was a wake-up call for all of us to sort of get off the train. And it was, you know, I think everybody goes through their crazy times. But, you know, he wasn't the only one. He just got unlucky and was a little bit more. The thing about John that was extraordinary was his acting showed the kind of, like, complete commitment to whatever he did. And I think that's probably the kid from Saturday Night Live,

the other kid from... Farley.... Farley. Chris Farley. Chris Farley, same thing. Just an absolute kind of... If I do it, I'm going to do it 100%. Did Spielberg encourage a lot of... No, never, no.

Experimentation? No, not drug use. I mean, creative license among the actors. Let you take chances with things. Yeah. I mean, he was one of us. He was our age. So it was kind of odd.

You know, he'd had this great success with Jaws. I think he was in new territory for himself. He was lovely to me. Lovely to all of us. He was very respectful to all of us. We think it's an unfairly maligned film. I mean, it has so many good things in it. It doesn't work as a whole piece, but it has wonderful things in it.

Well, I call it a kitchen sink comedy. Yeah, but it's a good one. You know, but I think Stephen should be forgiven for trying you know I mean look one of the things about American culture that I find unfortunate when I went to England and I would go to the theater I went to see all because I wanted to be

a great theater actor I had no interest in film so I went and saw Anthony Hopkins do Macbeth. I saw wonderful performances by, you know, Gielgud and Richardson. I saw Maggie Smith do Private Lives. This was my senior year in college.

But one of the things I noticed about the English theater girls was they'd say, oh God, Anthony was awful in Macbeth. Awful. I can't wait to see him in the next Shakespearean play at the National. They were able to forgive failure in a way that it was just a part of the natural course of things. Oh, how interesting.

When you fail here, it's as though you're done. And I wish failure were accepted as it should be in life as a part of what we do. A part of the process. We all fail. And if we don't fail, we don't grow. What also always got me is when they'll give an actor a lot of credit

when he tries something different. But then if he tries something different and it fails, they're unforgiving. Yeah. I don't understand it. I think it should be when that's what the English audiences

and critics are like, it failed, but't understand it. I think it should be when that's what the English audiences and critics are like, it failed, but I understand why. You know, they had these guys used to be called dramaturgs and they would describe

a failure as a learning tool, not as that guy should never get on stage again or he's just so bad. You know, remember that we all used to look forward

to reading those reviews by John... Simon. Simon. And they were horrific. He would destroy women's facial features. I think the English weren't like that. They just really loved theater.

Where'd you get that bit where you would change your face? Stephen. I don't think I'd do it if I had my druthers. I thought it was a little too cartoony. But Stephen had this concept of it being that the movie was kind of like he said to me when we first met he said i kind of see this as being like uh roadrunner cartoons oh because it's pretty broad yeah yeah i i would you know there are things you look back on and say you know i would have said steven i just think it's it's not organic you know and

you know i did it because steven asked me to and to and I think if you go back to something you say I'd really I think you're one of the best things in that movie thank you but I think there are things

I'd like to do again but I must say when I do something broad I'm committed to it you know I mean I think I'm the only actor in American film

who ever tried to justify eating shit for money in prison and kind of got away with it and things to do in Denver. Right.

And then describe the consistency. Who's ever done that? Critical Bill is quite a creation. Spongy. Okay? Have you seen this movie, Gil? You need to see it. No.

I'll make you watch it. You haven't seen it? Yeah. I have to go. Now, you also pop up in a movie, I don't know where or what scene or anything but you're in marathon man no i'm not he said i don't know what that's about yeah oh but i will tell you what i am in i'm not in marathon man i'm the runner or whatever that they credit you as runner unknown

runner i don't know i don't know you're not oh maybe i ran through a shot and they saw me i don't know maybe i was jogging but i did go to england yes well after con to visit carrie and i have pictures to show you you can put them up if you ever do a tv version of this and she said why don't you run through a shot as an extra just as a joke and i did and then i said okay let's go have a beer and she said no no no you're you're in it. You're in for this whole sequence. So for three or four hours, I had this costume on and I ran through the shots. And I have myriads. If you go online, Treat Williams, Carrie Fisher, there are myriads of pictures of us. In The Empire Strikes Back.

I have never gotten more requests for autographs than I have for my two seconds. I'm going to watch it tonight. What are you wearing? You dressed as a stormtrooper? I don't think the question is appropriate. Sorry. We're on radio. Forgive me.

Let me ask you. I can't see you behind the curtain. What are you wearing? White taffeta. I can show you a picture momentarily. I'd love to see it. I had on the helmet and the thing. Oh, so you were a stormtrooper.

Whatever they're called. I don't know. I wish I'd never done it. You're still getting mail about this now okay everybody who wrote about it was dead wow but i i'm the only one left wow let's talk about hair and your audition because beverly told me a story about you grappling with one of the producers and wrestling him to the floor it's a malicious book yeah because you were fed up with auditioning. Well, it's a bit dense, but I will tell you the story.

Jerry Ragney and Jim Rader wrote it. Sure. Jerry Ragney used to hide behind the seats. I was starring in Grease on Broadway as Danny Zuko. And after the show, Jerry would pop up behind the seats. So it was obvious that he was interested

in my kind of enthusiasm and energy. Very few have the kind of energy that I have, which is kind of bizarre. I wish I had seen you in that. It was fun. And when I went to meet Milos, the first meeting, I was actually very angry because everybody from Superstar was going in

and I couldn't get an audition. And I finally, Milos came and saw Gris and I was asked to come in. And he said to me when he met me, Trita, I saw you in Grease last night with Mikhail Berishnikov, and you do something very few American actors ever do. You go completely overboard. And I didn't know if he was complimenting me

or just making an observation about my bizarre, you know, sort of approach to the work. And that began a series of dance auditions, singing auditions, acting auditions. about my bizarre sort of approach to the work. And that began a series of dance auditions, singing auditions, acting auditions. We'd go to his apartment, and I would act probably with seven or eight different groups of people. In fact, I found out, Deborah Winger came up to me and said,

did you know that I screen tested with you just before Beverly came in? Wow. And I said, I was so terrified. I can't remember the day. I was absolutely, I wanted it so badly, you know? So I had done that screen test and that was my 11th, I think, audition. And they were casting hair and the play and the movie at the same time. And I went into this audition where Twyla and Galt McDermott and Jerry and Ragney and Jim Rado and Milos were all in the room. And I was asked to do this monologue in the play of Burger. Because I didn't know if I had the movie, so I was auditioning. Sure.

So I did the monologue. And as I was doing the monologue, I removed every article of clothing on my body. And I finished the monologue stark naked. Milos doesn't put that in the book. And I finished the monologue and they were all just staring at me naked. And I said, this is all I've got. I've given you guys 12 auditions. This is really all I've got. I don't know what you want from me to choose me.

So it's all I've got. And during the process, I realized that Jerry was conflicted he wanted the role for himself because he had created it for himself but he was 10 years too old so he wanted me to do it but he didn't want to give it up how interesting when i finished the audition he came out and with this big smile on his face and said that was amazing man that was so great and i was enraged and i grabbed him by the neck and I threw him on the floor. No, I'm serious.

I heard the story. And Milos put it in a way that was lovely. I didn't want to hurt him. But I wanted him to know how angry I was that he was fucking around with my head. And that's what I said to him. I said, you're fucking with my head, man. And then he got angry because he was embarrassed. And we got

into this kind of pissing match and I put my clothes back on and I said fuck you fuck this film fuck everybody I don't need to do with this anymore I'm done and I was crying I mean I was really emotionally distraught because I had wanted it so badly and I felt that I'd been pushed beyond you know what I had to show to get it what else could I do and Milos grabbed me before I walked out and said Tree Tree come here come on calm down he took me in a room he said calm down he said you're going I'm going to give you the role of Berger you know in the film and just but I can't promise it to you right now because I have to fight with seven different entities.

Sure. But I want you for the movie. And he said, so don't take the play. They're going to offer you the play because they were doing a revival. And I said, well, does that mean I have the movie? He said, no, but don't take the play. Did that calm you down some?

Oh, yes, of course. I knew that he wanted me. At that point, he said, I want you. I was up against, believe it or not, John Belushi, and I believe that Richard Gere was up for it. There were a lot of guys that were up for it. And at that point, it wasn't about being competitive. It was about, at some point, you really do have some part of you that says,

I'm not going to take any more of this. You've put me through too much. That's interesting. So it was a wonderful experience, and I never want to go through it again. Your greatest film experience, you said. It was the best film I've ever been. I think Friends is a wonderful film,

but in terms of naturalness and being a part of something that changed American musical theater, yeah, I think that's the one I'd say. Interestingly, Milos, when he had friends over who'd seen of course his great films they they'd seen Amadeus and they'd seen Cuckoo's Nest he would always show his guests at home in Connecticut hair I mean in summer what are you gonna do you want to watch a musical

right but it's really a lovely up very well I watched and the ending breaks you know I was thinking today I said to the guys who fell in love with it these young guys who'd never seen it um when you listen to uh old oh you listen to old singers from the 20s and they sound like they're a million miles away it's the 20s it's it's you know i can't name i can name you some of the singers who sang in a way that was so odd and like rudy valley you mean yes exactly, exactly. Okay, same period, Rudy Valli. Listen to Rudy Valli. It's like it's some period in some strange place. You listen to Fats Waller, and he's right next to you on the piano. It's present.

It's now. It's a guy who's in your face with his voice and music. And hair feels like that to me. We aren't being – it's not period. It's people with real feelings that are really present and really kind of contemporary yeah and cheryl barnes singing easy to be hard is one of those gorgeous things i've ever seen on film it's beautiful now frank and i like the changes frank said to me you're not gonna ask street to do this are you and i said fuck you i am i want to say i'm not gonna take all my clothes i want to i want to sing Age of Aquarius with you.

Is that the one you want to do? Yes. Yes. I don't think I know. I never sang it in the movie. You sing... He sings Good Morning Starshine in the movie. Okay.

No, I... Who, me? You sing the group? I sing seven songs. Yeah. Okay. This is going to be really embarrassing. Are we going to be playing the music?

Is there music? Yeah. I think there is. I've got to be playing the music? Is there music? Yeah. I think there is. I've got to carry over the track. Is there music? There is. This is the one we want to do? Yes.

Listen, I'll do it. By the way, I have to tell you, in my history of movies, I just finished co-starring with Dolly Parton in a Christmas musical movie. Cool. And Christine Baranski. musical movie. Cool. And Christine Baranski. And I took it because I said I've got to do a movie musical every 40 years just to kind of keep things

kind of sharp. Absolutely. So here we go. I'm not sure how sharp this will be. Are you going to play music? Are you going to sing? No. Why not? I'm just going to watch you two. Who's going to come in first? I'm going to watch the two pros. Who's going to come in first? Are you kidding? Let's both at the same time.

All right. Go ahead. Here we go. Turn it up. Why don't you let... This is... Wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

Stop that thing. Stop that thing. Hold on. Why? That's for the fucking Broadway show. Where's the movie music? All he's got is karaoke. Oh, for God's sake.

That's what we have. All right. So then now... Don't come on my podcast and be a fucking pain in the ass. All right. All right, I'll do it. Why don't you let Tree do the first part? No, let's do it together.

Only because I love you. Okay. Okay. But I only love you tonight. Tomorrow, we're done. Yes. Okay, here we go. All bets are off. All right, here we go. All bets are off.

All right, here we go. Can you sing? No. Oh, brilliant. Oh, boy. It's going to be a cheerio. When the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars.

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius! Age of Aquarius! Aquarius! Aquarius! Affleck! Harmony and understanding! Oh. Okay, here we go. Harmony and understanding. You're really... Oh.

Okay, here we go. Harmony and understanding. Gold and lead. Drinks and vision. Crystal revelation. And a mind-sharing liberation. Aquarian. Aquarian. Aquarian.

You know what? You're starting to look like a parrot. That's yelling Aflac. That's my Gilbert Gottfried image. Not bad. Let the sunshine Let the sunshine In the sunshine I'm Gilbert Gottfried singing here

That's me Sunshine Aquarius! This is never going to get on the air. Oh, this is funny. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. Oh, my God. All right, what else you got? You're a good sport.

We're done. I want you to tell me about meeting Jimmy Stewart since we brought him up. And you also met Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Gene Kelly. Well, it was Night of 100 Stars. Wow. And I was 112. Okay. There was one extraordinary night.

I was doing Pirates of Penzance in New York. I saw you do Pirates of Penzance. All these guys were there. And I got to this thing. And I was just, it was really bizarre to be seeing all the guys I'd been watching on film. But they all sat quietly. Orson Welles sat in a chair. Well, he sat in about four chairs.

He was so big, you know. And I just was, there's Lucille Ball. And one of the things that was interesting, here I was with Jimmy, with Jimmy Stewart and Orson and all these guys that were, you know, extraordinary stars of the period, and they were going to bring Jimmy Cagney up on, he was already sort of really kind of

old and frail, so they put him down on, at Radio City Musical, you know, they have that thing that comes up onto the stage sure what do you call that a lift an elevator elevator yeah and jimmy was down there they put him down and they left him there and he was alone oh christ and everybody went where's jimmy and we went oh my god jimmy's downstairs on the thing well is anybody looking after i don't know so we all went down and he was sitting in a chair crying because he'd been abandoned, and he couldn't move. He

couldn't get out of the chair. Oh, my gosh. So we all sat with him and stayed with him until the chair went up. But they were all, you know, they were just a bunch of guys who'd done well and now were later part of their career. And this thing was meaningless to them. It was like, you know, another- I'm here. A fundraiser. Yeah, a fundraiser. You know, but it was really an honor to meet. It was like another fundraiser. But it was really an honor to meet. As a matter of fact, one of the great conversations I had with somebody was they said, they had this great tribute to Alfred Hitchcock in Los Angeles and everybody was there, you know, Cary Grant and all the people.

Oh, was this the AFI tribute? Yeah, back in LA. And they said, but of course, everybody who went to that thing, who attended it, all the actors and everybody was there are dead. And I said, no, they're not. And they said, no, they're all dead. It was like, you know, it was 50 years ago. I said, they're not all dead. How do you know that?

I said, because I was there. I was one of the young actors who had gotten invited, and I was staring at all these extraordinary people. Everybody who'd worked with Hitchcock was there. It was really great to be a part of that transitory period where the mantle was being handed off from the 50s stars, 50s and 60s stars, who'd moved on to television at some point. Some with success and some not. You know, Jimmy Stewart's television shows never had success. Yeah, shame. Yeah.

We had Tippi Hedren here, actually, on the podcast. Oh, God. What a great film. Kim Novak's still with us. Oh, I know. Eva Marie Saint is still with us. I know. In fact, interestingly, the wonderful actor who I just worked with,

who stars in the new television series about the family that runs the TV studios. Oh, what are you talking about? Succession. Brian Cox. Brian and I just did a film that's coming out this fall, and Brian said he was doing a Shakespeare talk at USC, and he looked at the audience and he froze. There was Eva Marie Saint there to listen to him discuss Shakespeare.

He said, I was never so sort of shocked and pleased. Did you meet Alec Innes when you did the Empire thing? I never met him, but he's my favorite actor. I read both his books. Yes, I saw that. One is Blessings in Disguise and the other is My Name Escapes Me. He is probably one of the great character actors, if not the best character actor in english history he's great you gave me a perfect segue we love character actors on this show ah and we've had a bunch of them bruce stern has been here ah who else have we had laura and i

did a beautiful film together yes you did smooth talk griffin dunn was here tim matheson was here we love we love uh tim is in the movie that i do with brian cox there you go peter riegert was here peter riegert and I have worked together, too. We love character actors. You work with some great ones. Am I considered one? And an occasional leading man. No, we don't consider you an actor.

I have to go. I think I said that three or four times already. Tell us about directing Charles Durning. Yes. In the film you made, The Texan. You know, you want to talk about, I was, I, my manager called me and said, you're going to get a chance to direct

a short film. And I said, oh great. He said, and they're doing it for, I think it was Showtime. He said, and you know, five actors get to direct movies and he said, and you're going to direct a film directed by, written by David Mamet. And I said, oh great. And he said, the only film written by David Mamet. And I said, oh, great.

And he said, the only thing is David Mamet doesn't know it yet. Okay. And I had worked with David in a lot of stuff. He did Water Engine. I called Dave up. Oh, I'd done theater with him too. Yeah. And I said, listen, I've got a coattails question for you.

I've been offered to direct a movie, a short film. But the only thing is you have to write it. And I started to talk, and he said, he talks like this, that's great, that's very cute. What would you like, what do you think it should be about? I said, well, I know something about airplanes. Okay, give me two weeks. Two weeks later, he sent me a script, and we made it,

and it won three film festivals. It's called Texan. It's a lovely little film. Dabney Coleman? Well, you know, it was wonderful. I first offered it to Gene Hackman

and the agent wrote back and said, he works for money, which I thought was the best response from an agent. That's phenomenal. That's a great response.

I've not been able to say that yet, but I will one day. That's a great one. So I got Dabney, who I ended up co-starring with in the series a couple years later,

but Dabney and Charlie and Dana Delaney and Billy Macy, and I'm in it myself, and it was an extraordinary experience. And we used my airplane, which was great, because I get to fly over to the island off of L.A. And it was really watching Charlie and Dabney do those scenes that David wrote.

They really understood. You know, Dave Mamet writes the way people talk. And if you can't do – Mamet to me is like the violin. If you play it badly, it is really the worst sound on earth. And if it's played well, it's the most beautiful sound on earth. And David writes the way people talk where i'm telling you something and i say you know the thing i think about here's the deal i you know this is what i think so people stop themselves and start up and david writes that rhythm of people talking like people think and

talk and if you can't do that naturally it doesn't work charlie and those two guys did it with great panache and and and and they were gorgeous in it with great panache, and they were gorgeous in it. That's why it probably won these festivals, not for my directing. And it was wonderful. It was really, Dabney particularly, really got Mamet's sort of rhythm and speech. Everybody was great. It was fun.

We love those actors. What about somebody we had here, Don Murray? Your first film. Don Murray was great. I was just a kid starting out, but my favorite thing about Don Murray was I didn't study people like I do now. I studied the young actors and know what they've done before I walk on,

so I scare them with the fact that I know who they are. They don't know who I am. But Don had this jean jacket he wore to work every day, and there was these strings on the shoulder, like gold strings sewn in, and I said, what are those strings on the shoulder of your jean jacket? He said, oh, I did a movie where I had a rope around my shoulder,

and I said, what movie did you have a rope around your shoulder? He said it was called Bus Stop. It was Marilyn Monroe and I. And I was like, you work with Marilyn Monroe? I said, oh, yeah, yeah. He told us about it. He was a nice you work with Marilyn Monroe? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He told us about it. He was a nice guy.

He's still with us. Yeah. Well, I don't mean he wasn't. I meant he was not making him dead. Yes, yes. I was a nice guy. May he rest in peace. No, I meant, I can't get out of this.

I meant he was nice to me during the filming. He was found dead in his LA apartment. But I have to say, the guy who got involved with the Heidi, Heidi, what's her name? Heidi Fleiss? Heidi Fleiss' boyfriend was the director. Oh, my gosh. Ivan Nagy was his name. And I loved it because I'd never done, I think it was my first movie. Yes, I think it was. So they would say, you know, rolling.

And Sam would say, speed. And I'd expect him to go action, you know, and I'd wait for the action, and I'm all ready to go. It's my first movie, and I hear this Polish voice go, okay, boys, let's boogie. And I was like, okay. That was his direction. Does that mean I'm supposed to start? What about one of Gil? Go ahead, Gil. You know, it's funny.

When you were talking about David Mamet, that was another thing I think of people who don't understand. When people make fun of David Mamet, they'll just have the characters saying dirty words. And they don't realize there's a whole rhythm. Oh, yeah. To David Mamet. It's musical. To listen to Glenn Gary, Glenn rhythm. Oh, yeah. It's musical. To listen to Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. Yeah. It's like it's... No, David's language.

I just did last summer, I did American Buffalo. Yes. And David's understanding of comedy is what, you know, apparently the English production had no laughs, which blows my mind, because I think it's one of the funniest plays I've ever been in. And the opening scene, Teach comes out and does a diatribe about fucking ruthie and he's just furious because he took a piece of her toast on the table and she called him out for it publicly

and he's obviously one of those very violent guys who's oversensitive so he does like a three-page diatribe you know about ruthie and it's it's violent and it's loud and it's it's it's insane and then he sits down opposite his friend and there's a pause in the after this violent diatribe and he goes so what's new and it gets this howl if it's done correctly but if you you don't do it right, the audience doesn't know what the hell's going on. When I was like struggling to get any kind of work, and I would do- I still am, but go ahead. I would do like the improv and catch at night for no money. Yeah, yeah.

But during the early evening hours, I got a job working the concessions in the Broadway theaters, you know, selling the grapeburn and Christopher Reese, and American Buffalo with Robert Duvall John Savage and Kenneth McMillan who Milos loved working with, by the way. He's great in Ragtime. By the way, I have to go back

a second because I auditioned. Chris and I were both up for that play. Really? And I was late to my audition with Catherine Hepburn. Oh. And I don't know why I auditioned. Chris and I were both up for that play. Really? And I was late to my audition with Catherine Hepburn. Oh. And I don't know why I was late, but I was late. And when I walked in, Hepburn looked at me and said, Mr. Williams,

you're late. And I said, I'm sorry, Miss Hepburn. She said, when I was late, my father used to beat me. I didn't know where to go. Oh, Lord. I was done. my father used to beat me. I didn't know where to go. Oh, Lord. I was done. That was the end of that.

I remember Catherine Hepburn would come in before the audience was allowed in yet. And she'd walk around. She liked us to keep some of the doors open to get air in the theater. And one day we came in and we hadn't opened the doors yet. And she walked in and looks around at the doors and she yells out in this empty theater, that doors are closed, morons.

Wow. Gilbert Gottfried and Catherine Hepburn. Talking about walking around a theater, my favorite thing, I had just come to New York, and I had finally gotten the lead in Grease on Broadway after a year of being here, and it was the most extraordinary thing. It was just to be on Broadway starring in a Broadway musical,

and I didn't know anything. I was just starting. I was going to acting class, but every night I would be the last one out of the theater. I was just so excited. And I would walk out onto the stage and there'd be one, there was always one light. That was the stage light. It was just this one light.

And I used to just sort of feel the energy that had been in the house just 20 minutes before. Just kind of dissipating in the house. And I used to just look out at the house. It was like church. And you go out and go, wow, this is a very, very beautiful thing that we get to do. You know, I still feel that way. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. The Royale Theater.

It's not the Royale anymore. It's named after somebody. You do that, Gil? Do you stay behind in the comedy club? No. You'd be there until 6 in the morning and wait to leave. Oh, another play that I was doing the concessions at, Richard Burton and Equus. Oh, I saw that.

Yeah. He was uneven, but when he hit it, boy, he was hitting it good. Gilbert sold you your snow caps that night. Yes. You may not remember. No, I do. I didn't like you very much. I did not like you.

You were very rude and dismissive. I tried to tell you about how good I was going to be down the road and you had nothing to do with me. One of Gilbert's favorite actors you worked with, Ben Gazzara. I believe he directed you in something. Any memories of the great Ben Gazzara? Yes.

Okay, we're moving on. Martin Landau. Martin Landau, yeah. Which? Who? Who? Who? It was not a good time for a band. We had on Dick Cavett, and when Husbands came out, he brought on the cast of John Cassavetes, Ben Gazzara, and Peter Falk. Was anybody sober? No, they got plastered on the air.

And they came across like total assholes. Yeah. It was sad. You know, I was at the point where I really wanted to make a good movie, and I really liked Ben enormously. We've all had our bad nights, but Ben had a bad night every night on the film, and it was actually kind of sad.

I think Ben had a style of life where he would drink too much, and he'd go to Florida and dry out and then he'd be okay for a year or so. And then, you know, it was too bad because it was a nice group of people. But we met our best friends in England and still are very close to them. So good things happen.

What about Landau or Glenn Ford? Love Marty Landau. Yeah. Love Marty Landau. There are great things about him. Actually, this is... Back to Hitchcock. Okay, back to Hitchcock.

So I did a film last year with Jennifer Lopez called Second Act. You mentioned it. And we went out to Long Island. And it was weird because, as I said, I was a preppy. I taught sailing as a kid. And we were doing a scene where we were doing eight-man skulls. And I went, I know this place. Well, I realized I'd raced sailboats at this yacht club when I was a kid.

And then we stayed at this place, and I looked at the house. It was this big house in Long Island. I said, I know this. It was the house they used for Cary Grant and Hitchcock's film, North by Northwest. Wow. And we stayed in the house from North by Northwest. And as you well know, Marty was there when the alcohol got poured down. Cary Grant,

one of the funniest, most comedic, scary scenes when he drives the car on the cliffs where there are no cliffs in Long Island. It's all on the PCH.

Yes. Of course, it's all cliffs. But Marty was a wonderful person to work with and I got the James Dean stories. They were best friends. Yeah.

We were shooting in Eastern Europe and he's one of the real great early, you know, stories they were best friends yeah we were shooting uh in eastern europe and it was he was he's one of the real great early you know actors who cared about the work and still did you know he's wonderful and by the way when i'd not met him at all and i was nobody i was doing the eagle has landed and my son my was it my no i didn't have a. It must have been my nephew loved this TV show he was in that was like space stuff. Space 1999. Thank you.

And he gave me a couple of the fake, you know, ray guns. Uh-huh. Very cool. He was very, very generous and lovely. Good guy. That's an early role, too, for you. The Eagle has landed with Michael Caine and Donald Sutherland. Third film.

Yeah. Bob Duvall, who I ended up co-starring with. Duvall you did a lot with. Yep. D.B. Cooper. Yep. Yeah, that was my third film with John. And John Sturgis, who I, you know.

I was always the kid that wanted to sit at the feet of the master. I would go, you know, these guys are all going out chasing girls. I would have dinner with John Sturgis. I had more dinners with Sergio Leone during the making of Once Upon a Time in America. We've got to ask about that, too. Please do. And how you fell asleep in the middle of a take. Well, that was extraordinary.

Bob De Niro had to wake me up. Listen, we were all out late at night, and it took the Italians to take forever to light. I was in this comfy hospital bed with nice pillows. It's a good scene. After two hours, they're ready to shoot. Nobody said, better check treat. Are you ready?

I was out cold. I just remember Bob. I see Bob De Niro shaking my shoulder, smiling at me. I'm going, hey, what's up? He's like, we're in a scene. Would you like to say some words? And you got to shoot at Chinatita where they shot everything. Chinatita.

Yeah, Chinatita. Is that how they say it where they shot everything. Cinetita. Yeah, Cinetita. Is that how they say it? Cinetita. Cinetita. And I learned to speak Italian because they did about ten movies after that, so I became quite good at Italian. That is a wild movie with a lot going on. Yeah, four hours.

Yeah. I loved Sergio Leone. I mean, working with the Italians was like watching people paint great paintings. Every department was an art department. The wardrobe was an art department. Even the poster is one of the most beautiful posters I've ever seen. Wasn't he more interested in the visuals while making that film than the performances? For a guy who didn't care about performance, we did a lot of takes.

I think he cared about performance. I think he did. It's sort of sad how they cut the film. They took the film away from him. They put it back, though. They got it back together. Finally, finally. It's one of those things where I honor that film.

There's some very tough scenes to watch. The rape scene is horrific. Even the scene where you're having the gasoline poured on you is hard to watch. And by the way, that hose had gasoline in it that day. So there was no acting required, as Cary Grant used to write, NAR on you. It was hard to watch. And by the way, that hose had gasoline in it that day. So I didn't, there was no acting required as Cary Grant used to write NAR on scenes. No acting required. Love that. Yeah.

And I'm going to make Gilbert watch Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead because your character. Just remember the word spongy. Critical Bill is quite an invention. Yeah. That whole movie. Gary, that was a wonderful script by Scott. Scott Rosenberg. an invention. Yeah. That whole movie. Gary, that was a wonderful script by Scott. Scott Rosenberg. Lovely script.

Yeah, yeah. He created a language. Yeah. Like the Coen brothers do. Chungo Dinge. Yeah, like a Miller's Crossing. How do you call somebody a Chungo Dinge? I don't know.

That movie is nuts from start to finish. I loved that part. And everybody's doing really good work. I had more fun with that role. I always love it. If I get a character good work. I had more fun with that role. I always love it. If I get a character part where I'm chewing scenery, I'm happy. Well, you do play a good psycho. I must say.

Well, it's, you know, somebody asked my wife, he said, how did he get to that? She says, what are you talking about? He's like that at home. That's who he is. Will you take Gilbert up in one of your planes? Sure. I'd love to. You know he's a pilot, Gil.

Yes. I'd be honored. I heard about to. You know he's a pilot, Gil. Yes! I'd be honored. I heard about that. Beverly said you took her up. I flew Bob De Niro and Chris Walken to Cuba. Wow! My God. I flew Harvey Keitel from San Francisco down to LA. I've flown everybody. We're going to let this man go home. This was

fantastic. Thank you. And I think my new favorite episode. When the moon is in the seventh house. How do you make a career out of that? That's a really good question. I don't want to do what you do. You do nothing. You yell and you make money.

I want this guy's career, okay? I want to talk like this and make a million dollars. One last impression for you. You familiar with an actor named John MacGyver? Yeah. Sure, hit him, Gil. Everything in this company must be run according to schedule. We will have no slackers here.

What did you think? Every... All right, I'm going to do one. I'm not going to say who it is. I'm going to take it out of their skulls. Nice. Treat does brand, though. So much more to ask you,

but we've got to get out of here. Will you come back and play with us another time? No. Okay, good. Yes, of course. You were fun. Thanks. What a blast. Oh, my God. You were fun. Thanks. What a blast.

Oh, my God. All right. Gil, wrap the show. The man has to go home. Gil, wrap the show, Gil! The engineer has to go home. Why don't you wrap it up as Gilbert Gottfried? I don't know.

Give me the words and I'll do it. Give me the words. Yeah, this is Gilbert Gottfried. Where's the... Here. Give me the words to read. Write it down. I'll do it for you. I don't know. read. Write it down. I'll do it for you.

I don't know what to say, and I'll do it. You can cut this part. Gilbert Gottfried's has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal... Let's see if they can tell it's me or you. Okay, there you go. Okay. That's the name of the show. All right.

This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. Thank you for listening. Treat Williams, we love you. Thank you so much. Have fun! Thank you, ha. Show it long as God can blow it by hand. Let it fly in the breeze and get caught in the trees. Give a home to the fleas in my hand. A home for fleas, a hive for the buzzing bees.

A nest for birds, there ain't no words for the beauty, the splendor, the wonder of my hand. Blow it, show it long as God can blow it by hand I want it long, straight, curly, fuzzy, snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty, oily, greasy, fleecy, shining, gleaming, steaming, flaxen, waxen Brownie, polka dotted, twisted, beaded, braided Pallet, borrowed, and confetti, bangled, tangled, spangle, and spaghetti! Hey! Oh, say, can you see my eyes? If you can, then my hair's too short! Down to here, down to there, down to there, down to where it stops by itself! Every dog I have to go go when they see me in my toga.

My toga made of blonde, brilliant chain, biblical hair. My hair like Jesus wore it. Hallelujah. I adore it. Hallelujah. Marry love to son. Why don't my mother love me? Hey, blow it, show it.

Long as I can blow my hair. Blow it, show it. Long as I can blow my hair. Blow it, show it, blow it. I can blow my hair. Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals.

Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.