Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Universal Horror Films with Author-Historian Gary Gerani Part 2

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

GGACP celebrates Halloween month by revisiting part two of a 2019 salute to Universal horror classics with author, screenwriter and historian Gary Gerani. In this episode: In praise of "The Raven"! The Monster takes a mate! Bela Lugosi’s finest hour! The strange life of Edgar G. Ulmer! And the absurd brilliance of “The Black Cat”! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Trivia and dirty jokes. An evening with the boys. Once is never good enough for something so fantastic. So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic

Hello Hi, this is Gilbert Godfried and I'm here with my co-host Frank Frank Santopatra and this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions with our special guest Gary Gerani. Hello there.

Hey, I'm going to stop you guys. Why don't we do, hey Frank, why don't we have Gilbert do like a fun horror movie intro for this one? Why don't you do like a, like a, like a, like a Carloff voice

or Maria Ouspenskaya to introduce the episode because this is our Halloween show. Do the same thing. Okay. Okay, here we go. Even a man who is pure a car

and says his prayers by night may become a wolf when the wolf bane blooms and the other moon is bright. This is part two of Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. Lovely. Wow. That was exactly what I had in mind. Fantastic. Nice job. Nice job, Maria.

We're doing part two here with Gary Gerani. Maria Ouspenskaya, when she did the Wolfman, probably thought of it as like doing porn. That's like this grand lady of the stage act. Yeah, she was there with this Stanislovsky. Well, you got to look at it this way. There she was with her old, you know, buddy Claude Raines. And, you know, they did a couple other movies together, including. what's the movie where Ronald Reagan loses his legs?

Oh, King's Roe? Yeah, yeah, they're both in that. So, you know, you could make horror movies and still do your important films if you were good enough and they were brilliant. And she was in that movie where Edward G. Robinson I think he discovers, he's the one who finds

the... Dr. Ehrlich's Magic Bloss. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Oh, yeah, and you'll see her, the rains came she's the old lady there the reins rancherport yeah yeah I mean she was very respecting she was an acting teacher too I think she was a

I think she was a I think young actors she took a lot of young actors by the way I'm going to reintroduce you oh okay Skilbert got lost in his Maria as well he should Gary author and and pop culture expert and trading card king Gary Gerrani is back with us

and one time I heard from Chico's daughter I had spoken to and she was taking lessons from Maria Spinskaya There you go I'm trying to handle that

He was probably trying to nail her Even Yeah And it's like Chico asked her out to dinner And it was Chico and Maria Spinskire

having dinner I can't believe what that Why this wasn't Phil? Maxine told you this? Yes Wow Yes The brain cells

I was boggle at that one, I have to say. Gary? We talked in the last episode. Oh, Gary. Oh, Gary. We talked in the last episode about Dracula, Frankenstein, the mummy, and the invisible man, and we went all over the place. But we're trying to do these in chronological order. No problem.

Everybody who listens to this show knows that Gilbert loves Universal Monster Talk. Lon Cheney, Jr., especially. So we'll get to him. Yeah. But since we're going in order, and we left off. with The Invisible Man in 33. Let's talk once again about a movie we love to talk about on this show, and that is the very

weird and very kinky black cat. Yeah, yeah. Which may be the strangest movie to ever come out of Hollywood, arguably. The more you watch it, the less you understand it. That's a great description of that. It makes less and less sense.

And it's more and more satisfying. Yes, it's just weird. Just wonderful. Usually when a movie, when something doesn't make sense, I get annoyed. With the black cat, nothing makes sense, and it just makes it better. Absolutely.

I couldn't agree more. And that's interesting because that's a universal horror movie. That really doesn't have a monster. No, no monster. Yeah. And yet, it's just as well-loved and well-appreciated as the other classics, because it is so well-done. Karloff has an incredible part in that. You put it in the book.

Yeah. Oh, it's a great movie. And I love the fact that his castle is this high-tech, brilliantly designed place. It's artistic, and then there's a digital clock in the movie. He's obsessed with the digital box. Yes. I know. Because every other film back then was like in a castle or something.

And now you see this like really fancy house. You know what that reminds me of? Frank Hapra's lost horizon. When they get to Shangri-La, it's not an old-looking thing. It's a modern-looking thing. It's a beautiful-looking movie. It's a shame that they lost a half a reel or... What happened on that movie is they've lost the original negative.

So through all the decades now, they've been trying to restore it. It keeps looking better over the years. When you see it now in theaters, in revivals, you see it with stills. Oh, the sections that were cut. It's a beautiful movie. Yeah. It really is. Okay, Black Cat.

The first of... the Karloff-Legosy teamups. I mean, universal, I don't know this, but they mean, they must have been falling all over themselves to try to put the two of these guys in a movie together. Obviously, they were the two big stars very loosely, if at all, based on the Poe story. Like, as if no real connection to it. And when they do hit upon it, a black cat shows up, he gets scared, and it's never touched on again.

references, I think. They have to justify the title. Exactly. Well, Lagossey throws the scissors at the office. That's a great moment, too. You listed in the book, you describe it in the book as a loopy, tongue-in-cheek tale of revenge, perverted love, and devil worship. What about sums it up.

There's necrophilia. Yeah, human sacrifice. Right, it's Lagosie's daughter. Incest. Yeah, aye, aye, aye, aye, right? Well, it's pre-code. Exactly. We were able to get away with this stuff.

We'll play a little game. A game of death, if you'd like. I got a good one for you. And he accentuates that lisp. In, you know, they're playing that game, that little chess game, right? And then finally, Checkmate, right? That key moment. But the studio didn't realize, they thought for a second,

a lot of people may not know that Checkmic means he wins. So a voice is dubbed in saying, you lose, Vitus. Isn't it Olmer's voice? It's just a voice. I don't know who's voice. Yeah, it's Ulmer. I think it's the director.

You know, just just, it isn't even, even as a kid, I said, that's not Carlos' voice. But they were so concerned, people wouldn't, didn't realize that check it meant you lost. So they had to throw that line in.

Yeah. Tell listeners briefly the plot if you can sum it up. There's no one. Yeah, no one should even. And I heard it was based on a true story. I mean, very loosely. I think the cultist, is the cultist character based on Alastair Crowley, the famous cultist and paganist? That's a good point.

Because I have heard that. And there were these prisons, these army prisons, that that was based on. So there was that, it did have that element of reality that was underneath all the insanity that was going on there. It's a little suggestion of a subtext there. And again, it's David Manners again, right? David Manners again. There is a scene. He's everywhere.

Where they're on the train car. And David Manners is listening to Legosi, and I go, this acting is ahead of time, you know? I know what you're saying. Because his wife is asleep, and Lagosi sees a sleeping wife, and he almost like watches, wants to touch this young lady in a very nice way. and he's looking at him and he starts to explain how he lost his own wife and all that

and Manners is just there he's just listening but it is as you say ahead of its time because he's not over-emoting no he's just there shaking his head

and what it's a powerful that surprised me when I saw that because it's just he's just listening it's a powerful moment too yes very and that's because you had

Ulmer you know it was a very interesting director. A very, very strange guy would get those moments from the actors. A very strange guy from the research. And he's made some of my favorite movies too. Man from Planet X

and all the amazing crazy pictures. I came back. Not to kill you. To kill your soul. Look fast for John Carradine in the Black Cat. He plays an organist. Oh, oh, oh. Oh my God. Over brought the

German expressionism that you're talking about with the design. I read some very, very strange things about him. If I, MDB, you know about this, that he had an affair with a wife of an executive at Universal? That I didn't know. And he was

blacklisted. Ulmer began an affair with Shirley Castle, who would eventually become his wife. However, at the time Castle was married to Max Alexander, a Universal producer and the nephew of the powerful head of Universal, Carl Lemley. Don't crap where you eat.

Who did not look kindly on outsiders upsetting his family. She left her husband for Ulmer and the ensuing scandal resulted in him being blackballed by all of the major studios. It just goes to show you. You gotta be careful. How about that?

Now how about this one? This is from my MDB2. Henry Cording, who plays the brutish kind of, the strange, very disturbing disturbing element is this weird manservant. Save the life of actress Lucia Lund when he pulled her off the slab

table after he found her bleeding from the mouth. According to Lund, Edgar Omer was a sadist who retaliated against her when she turned him down when he asked her to be his girlfriend. He left her hanging in a glass case equipped with wires while they all went to lunch. It is estimated she had been left there for an hour. I bring this up because it adds an element of freakishness. Yes. Yeah, a little bit of real life horror.

including it on the movie. Yeah, if this is true. You know that or it could just be some juicy publicity, too. Who knows? Well, I remember the most bullshit publicity to come out of the old movies is, I forget the name of it. It was a real shitty low budget with Karloff and Lagosi. And Lagosi, they advertised, had been hypnotized by this. Oh, is that Black Friday?

And that looked like such bullshit. That has got to be bullshit. It's like looking at the old press books where there's all this stuff. You know it's all made up crap. Because, you know, it's supposed to be that he hypnotized him to be in a panic. Well, if he was in a panic and he was more comfortable with Hungarian, why is he screaming out in English? If in a panic he'd be screaming out in Hungarian.

They wouldn't be able up. They even put that scene in the trailer. I like the Raven, too, by the way. The follow-up, the Lagosian is even loopier. It's loopier. It's like the black cat without the artfulness, but it's guys own. It won't cause you sleepless weeks, though, like the black cat. And they took a Karloff scrowl out of Frankenstein and put it, yeah, and they put it in the Raven for no reason at all.

So we'll move on, but we will tell our listeners once again, and we've said it a hundred times. Watch the black cat. Yes, we love the black cat. And then email us. Moving on to 1935. I think you know which one I'm going for here. Quite an important one, I would say. Quite an important one.

And actually the highest ranking movie in your book. Oh, yes. It came in at number five. Of all the universal horror classics, that is the Citizen King. It really is, and that's Bright of Frankenstein. The rare sequel that surpasses the original film. And the original was damn good. But Bride of Frankenstein took things to a whole new level.

You can have a contemporary young audience watch that movie. Watch the climax where they bring the bride to life. The style of editing, it's like Star Wars. You know, it's so exciting, so creative, so fast. Well, my theory about this is that Whale was given free reign. He was given a lot of creative license, and he took it. Yeah. And it all worked.

It's a little about like the inmates running the asylum. him in 70s American cinema. I mean, it is crazy the chances that he took with this thing. And then it got

that whole crazy middle section with the miniature people, yeah. Which apparently in the jar is in. Oh my God. Do you know this?

Among the little little people, right? That scumbag he took work from me. He's a good job from Gilbert. Dr. Pretoria Yeah, who was a great creation. Just like Dr. Frankenstein had experimented with creating life.

Instead of creating a human-sized artificial man, he created these little people that he put in jars. And that was like Ernest Thessinger. Yes. And I heard, you know, him likes everybody in George Wales. George, James Wales pictures was gay. Yes. With the exception of Carl. He was the one straight guy.

He was married to a little. To a lady. But Ernest Thessinger used to, on his time off, he would knit. And he used to refer to himself as that knitting pitch. Where did you come up with this? I've read that. Now I'm learning something. That's amazing.

Herset Sessinger is another great, I was the Dr. Smith of his day when you think about it. And then there's that part where Karloff shows up and he goes up and he goes, friend. And he goes, well, I should sit and he hopes it? I hope so. Have a cigar. He wasn't the Dr. Smith, but he

wasn't the Jonathan Harris of his day. Yes, wasn't he? You nailed that. And Jonathan Harris was a Jew from the Bronx. There you go. He invented that whole character. And that character

saved the show because they did the original pilot without Dr. Smith. And it was rejected. They said, you got to have some conflict in here. So they brought him in. So Whale wanted no part of a sequel to Frankenstein, from what I understand. Yeah, I mean, you could understand why they were afraid,

because that kind of thing could go off the rails very, very easily. Instead, they wound up with certainly one of the greatest horror movies. Some people would say it's the best. It's certainly in the top five. I'm reading that Uncle Carl was on vacation in Europe, and he basically wasn't watching what Whale was doing. And Whale basically had creative freedom. What's amazing that they got away with was the sacrilegious things.

So many, their statues of Christ, comparing the monster their Christ. Well, absolutely, because, yeah, the monster was an outsider being persecuted. Now, I don't know if you know, but originally, Karloff didn't want the monster to speak. He was really against that. And that was Wales idea, you know. And then, it's kind of like Albert Hitchcock not wanting music in the shower sequence of Psycho. He eventually realized, no, that really did make it into something. And the monster talking brought a whole new level to the character.

And Karloff finally said, yeah, yeah, that really did make a difference. And then in Son of Frankenstein, he already forgot how to talk. Right, he's mute again. Yeah, yeah. It never made any sense to me. Yeah, and that's kind of what the prototype of what the monster was going to be when Glenn Strange eventually took it. Just kind of a big automaton kind of a thing. Well, Sarah did a DVD commentary.

I guess it's on one of the Blu-rays. She said that time has proven her father wrong. Oh, yeah, I remember her saying that. Yeah, that he made it work when he spoke. I'm sure that Karloff himself, after he gave that performance, probably, like what Hitchcock said, incorrect suggestion, he realized that what he was saying, no, let's not do it, was wrong, and speaking was right for the monster. It's a very kinky movie in ways. It's similar to the black cat,

because it's really, it's kind of an outlier. Here's my question to you guys on it. When he, when the monster kidnaps Elizabeth, okay, I think of, you know, Madeline Khan, but no, this is the original Elizabeth. And he brings her to that cave and he throws her down, whatever. And then he, you see his hand, and he's looking at her, and he's coming down on her.

Just like that, like, you know, and you dissolve away. Did he rape her? it's a good question and for years you know and if you look at that it's

and then he goes and his hand goes and you dissolve to the next take a look at that the next time no one can really say for sure

but I think that's implied what do you know about rejected storylines that they didn't go with some story about a circus about Frankenstein and his

his bride running away to a circus and the monster they did that in the The bride. They used that storyline. I've never seen the bride.

That's exactly right. I've never seen the bride. Interesting. And the girl from Flash dance. The monster is killed by a lion in the circus. Have you heard this before? And there's one storyline that was rejected

of Dr. Frankenstein murdering the monster with a death ray. There were always death rays popping up in these things. In the mummy, I believe, he was going to be using a death ray originally. Also, the mummy, we were talking about the similarities between the mummy and dragon. Originally, the mummy was going to be in a coffin all day long, just like Dracula,

but it would be just sarcophagus, but pretty much amount to the same thing. So, you know, there's all these nutty ideas that they played with and sort of... That were ultimately rejected. Getting back to just the brilliance of the bride of Frankenstein, among other things, there's so many great things in it. The music. Yes. Oh, Franz Waxman.

Oh, my God, Franz Waxman, one of his greatest scores, and it wound up, Just like this wasn't Franz Waxon, was a different composer who did The Invisible Man, but both of those scores wound up being background music for the Flash Gordon serials, which as a kid I saw before these horror movies and all of a sudden, oh my God, I know that music. But it's powerful, powerful stuff.

It's a great score. It's a great movie on so many levels. And there's a part where the monster is crying with the old blind man, and the camera goes up to a lit-up, a figure of Christ on the cross There's a crucifix behind them And as that scene is faded

It suddenly illuminates And then if the whole scene is faded out You still see the illuminated cross Yeah, it sticks with you And Elsa got the question mark treatment in that one Because Carl off was already Carl off And plus she played two roles

Because she was Mary Shelley In addition to playing the bright She is the only classic universal monster To Never Take a Life there you go technically right technically she's only on three three minutes

and you talk about you saying some ideas they were playing with that they never used the bride briefly was going to be dealt with in son of Frankenstein

when he goes to the old crumbled place there was going to be the remains of the bride or something they finally said you know let's just skip that but they were going to do a little continuity with her

interesting yeah we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this this episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here.

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Void were prohibited. Terms and conditions apply. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Conax, Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600, to speak to an advisor free of charge. A little Colin Clive trivia for you, Gilbert, since you asked about him, he died two years later after the making a brighter Frankenstein. Supposedly, again, we have to do a segment on this show called Truth or Bullshit, but his ashes sat in the basement of an L.A. funeral home for 40 years. Oh, my God.

Before they were discovered. Wow. How weird is that? How weird is that? Yeah, I heard he drank. He was old. And he had old kinds of diseases and things. I don't even remember anymore. It wasn't a pretty picture.

But you're giving me my segue, since you've brought up Sonner Frankenstein. Let's talk about it. Okay. Yes, it did not make your top hundred, but it's, as you say, bubbling beneath the surface. It's got to be because... It's under the ice. I'm actually annoyed at myself that I somehow didn't squeeze it into the top 100 because it's a very, very good movie in its own way. You called it more conventional.

Oh, well, it is. Yeah. If you could look at Brideford. Rankinstein, which is the one of the reasons that... It's hard at the top. We love that movie because of how offbeat it is. Sun is a little bit more straight in every way, less flaky, less funny. The best part of that was Lagosi's performance is amazing.

Absolutely. There are some people who say, incorrectly, Karloff had all these different characters, and all Lagosi had was Dracula. No way. Igor is just in its own way. It's just as good as Dracula because he's doing the exact opposite. Yes. Instead of the cultivated, sophisticated, it's this whatever he is, this kind of slimy kind of...

It was both funny and eerie at the same time. And sometimes even touching. Yes. And I guess it's in Ghost of Frankestine where he's hoping to literally bond with the monster by going into his body and his brain was going to be in there and all that. So the relationship between Igor and the monster has had some people saying, was there more going on there?

In later years, people were talking about that. Oh, well, there was a part in the movie that Karloff and Rathbone would crack up. And that's when Lagosie says of the monster, he does things for me. He does things for me. And they started cracking up. Very interesting.

It's actually a very sinister line because, you know, what are those things that he would do for this creepy guy? I hate to think they had a subtext that was inferring some... Right, right. But to me, I always just took it as this guy's a weird, wicked old guy, and he's got this monster at his disposal. Which, of course, is what he uses him for to get even more than the people. Sure.

I like it. And it's plenty atmospheric, and it's got a lot going for it. But it makes me wonder what whale would have done had he... It was a different time. You're talking about the difference between 1935 and 1939, and the movies were growing up. Holly was getting very, very straight and serious with all this stuff. The son of Frankenstein was actually going to be a technicolor movie.

Yes, I was going to ask you about that. And if you look at that film, look at the way the monster looks. He's not in his usual dull jacket. He's got this furry outfit, which was a brownish red. I heard Karloff hated that. Well, he didn't like things that got away from the iconic look of the monster. Well, wasn't he worry generally that the monster was going to be taken in the wrong direction, that he was just going to become a killing machine and lose his...

You know, I mean, it was such a tricky part to begin with, right? And inevitably, it was so easy for it to become a parody of itself. And then he just became a big stuntman walking around, and usually the third act of those movies. Well, once it's Glenn Strange, and it's nothing against him, had a good face. Yeah, but it's... But it's, they weren't really doing justice to the monster. They lose the sympathy and the magic of the character and the childlike qualities, everything that Karloff.

Yeah, they were going in a different direction. You know, what can one say? You know, the 40s were different than the 30s. Son of Frankenstein launched the second wave of universal classic Harle. And when you see Lagosian there, you see what a great stage actor, he must have. Ben. Yeah. Oh,

yeah. And people like to say, oh, how hammy he is. But no, he's really making that real. Yes. As weird as that character is.

Ah, and we'll get to this in the second, I'm sure. He's equally good in the Wolfman. Yes. As the Gipa. It's a small part.

Right. But there he is. Showing up and giving another memorable moment that we could talk about. Well, I read that Lee was they were making the script up as they went along with Son of Frankenstein

and that they kept expanding Lagosi's part. Apparently they were upset that Universal was low-balling him on the money and they were trying to give him more to do. Universal had very little respect for Lagosie. Now, some people say, well, after all he can play is Dracula. Number one,

that's not true. And also excuse me, they did a lot of other movies with the Dracula character and didn't use Lagosie. Sure. Who is Dracula, right? So Universal, I think, began to think, of him as kind of a melodramatic kind of cornball guy from another era. Once you got into the 40s in the World War II era, John Carradine became their drag,

because he had more cred. He was a little bit more of a traditional solid actor of that type. So Lagosie had to go crazy to get the part in Abnerick-Costello meet Frankenstein, just the way he had a campaign to do the role originally in 31. And then when he came back in Abinand-Costello, you go, oh shit this is what's been missing I'm tracking I like carotene but like Lynn Strange

he's second he's second string yes yes and the only reason they even let Lagosie do it in A&C meet Frankenstein because that was a parody I know so they thought oh this this hammy get a melodramatic oh shame the way he was treated and he almost didn't get that either he had to go crazy to get it

can you imagine he was good in the in Abandon and Costello oh yeah right right right and those lines and he's talking to Luke Costello you know, and they're doing their what the world needs is young brains and blood, whatever he's saying, you know, and then, you know,

Luke Costello was going, thank you. Two quick bits of trivia before we move off Senator Frankenstein and move to my last one and yes, you're ahead of me. Sarah Karloff, who did this show, was born during production. She was born in November of 1938. And again, this could be bullshit.

We'll have to ask Sarah. Apparently, he went to the hospital in the costume. That's, yeah. That I've heard of many times. Hope it's true. I heard that story. It sounds like bullshit. It sounds like bullshit.

Imagine those poor people. Right. And the question that, of course, you both know, it's his last feature. It's Karloff's last feature as the monster. But for what reason did he put the makeup on again? Oh, you mean the classic episode of Route 66? Yes. Yes.

Lizards Legg and Alice, yeah, yeah, that was. No messing with you guys. Yeah. Yeah. And they all were in it. You had. Cheney and Laurie. I knew Gilbert

jumped in. I mean, you know, Legosi was gone by him. Well, this is my tragic childhood story. I would check the,

every day, Route 66 is off. I would check every day if that would pop up. And the one day I don't check. Oh. Isn't that always the way it is? Yes.

Jesus. By the way, he also put on the makeup for a charity softball game. Oh, yes, yes. I do believe Or baseball.

I do believe he put the makeup on again for the Danny K movie, Walter Middy. Yeah, but it's not... It was a sequence that they filmed and didn't use. Not in the movie. It's not in the movie, but it would have been technical color that when you've been seen that. How about that? And apparently that... Oh, here's the other thing. You had to wait until Munster go home to see them in color.

Here's the other thing that drives me crazy. In real life, to have them... look gray on screen, they painted them green. And now they always just have Frankenstein as a green monster, and it shouldn't be that way. Okay. This is the best, as I understand, and this has become an issue among us people who are into this. The true correct color for the Frankenstein monsters is that grayish color. Yes.

And that is what was originally created. That's what you will always see. in this Walter Middy thing that was in TechDara? It was the gray look again. But when they were doing those color tests and things on Son of Frankenstein, you will see some of this footage. I believe Karloff was on the set, taking home movies, and you'll see that somewhat greenish look to his face

and with the red outfit and all that. I believe they were experimenting a little since that first movie was going to be made in color, Sun of America, that first Technicolor movie, they wanted to play with his skin tone a little to make it a little more interesting. That's my thought on it. But basically, it should be that grayish look.

The reason it went green is, the same reason the Incredible Hulk started out as gray in the comics, it didn't print right, it didn't look good. So they went green. Oh, it's interesting. And that jumped out at you. Also, you know, the Universal Monsters for kids of my generation in the 60s and then later in the 70s and whatever,

it was the Aurora Monster model kits. Yes, yeah. And the cover of that, James Baumas' beautiful painting for the box art, the monster's green. And that's what they told you to paint it. And from that point on, he just was green. Of course.

Let's talk about the Wolfman before we get out. Yes, wonderful film. As you say, now we're up to 41. So we started at 31. It's a 10-year span. And as you pointed out, Universal had struck out with Werewolf of London in 1935, despite having Warner Oland in it. And it's an interesting story, too,

because there are two Werewolves and Werewolf of One. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's offbeat, but didn't quite nail it. Kurt Siodmec, who had something of a, had a terrific career. He wrote I Walk With a Zombie, wrote Son of Dracula, Black Friday, many other movies, put together a script in a couple of weeks. It's an original screenplay. Cheney became a star.

And I think the original, there are traces of it in the movie, that originally it's supposed to be that you weren't supposed to know whether he actually. was a wearer. A very good point. You watch the movie and you listen to the dialogue. It sounds like that's what they're doing that you shouldn't really know. And meanwhile, we're seeing him. It's a beautiful thing. We're seeing him clear as day

and everything. Okay. Siad Mack later made a movie called Bride of the Gorilla. Sure, we talked about it. Which was his vision. And the idea is, it's only when you see him in a mirror or in a pool of water from his point of view. Because he's a

imagining that, but that's not it's a Val Luton thing we're talking about. And the funny thing is Lon Cheney is in that, but not in the lead role. Yes. But that is what the original idea was, and that's why Val Luton made Cat People. He said, oh, this is Wolfman thing.

You see too much. This is how it really should be. And that was when the whole idea of applying that. Yeah. Cat People was his answer to the Wolfman. Well, Siamak escaped from the Nazis. So he saw a lot of himself in this story. forced into a fate I didn't want, he said.

Right. Yeah, and it's like, you know, even a man who's pure at heart and says his prayers at night. So he was an honest, good guy, but he became this hunted out. It shows you what anyone can become. And that's a great subtext. The other thing I want to say about The Wolfman, and I didn't even get into this in the book,

because there's so many good things you could say about the film. But you know what that story is really about? it's a father and son's story and it's about what happens if you don't show your child love it turns your child into a monster without having that love you know what i think the movie is too aside from that analogy of like you know uh like a jew come and it's like it was the thing of like it was thrust on him and it became i also think it's almost like a biography of Loncheney Jr. Take the words right, because I was about to say, in real life,

his own father was a cold fish with him. And if you look at that movie, it's almost about Loncheney Jr.'s relationship with his real deal. Key moment in the movie, at the end of the picture, when he's got him strapped to the chair at the end, and he says, but dad, aren't you going to stay here with me to help me through this seizure? oh no i have to go help the villagers yes that was it god damn it stay with your son he needs you he

wouldn't have changed if he had stayed yes hammer picked that up and cursed the werewolf with oliver reed where the girl he lives stays with him like that he hasn't changed yeah like that because the power of love was able to to stop that that transformation okay gilbert no one will appreciate this more than gary tell him your your universal monster oh okay psychological theory. Frankenstein is a baby. He's confused. He just wants

to be loved and accepted. Everything he's just been thrown into this life. The wolf man is adolescence. Your body, your voice, everything is changing and you have no control over it. Dracula

is what every guy wants to be you want to control women you want to be charming every they keep going the mummy is how we wind up

the mummy is old age but but wow I never thought of universal monsters takes you through old stages he's profound this guy that says gas no that's great that's great isn't that wild

yeah I particularly like that wolf man and the adolescence and the changes well I mean they made I was a teenage wear well right And Teen Wolf. I mean, they also did it as a comedy.

Kind of nailed that, but that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, he's a deep thinker. But you want to know somebody. If it's stuff you don't need to know about. But here's this stuff. All very funny and everything. But these movies were so good.

They stimulate thoughts like that, you know? And it's interesting. And the actors kind of knew. I mean, Karloff knew he was doing an innocent. They're gems. Thrust into this crazy world. And I think Kurt Sianamak, because it was supposed to be. an identical story. It's like, you know, here, this guy had this fate thrust on him. And

with Sianamac, you know, his life changed. And, but I heard that he used to go out, he had a big garden, and he would go out every morning and so yell out, thank you, Hitler. Wow. Yikes. Wow, wow, wow. Tell people where they can get the books. Now this is one of four that you did in a series. Yeah, yeah, that fantastic press group there. The first one was the top 100 horror movies. The second one was the top 100 sci-fi movies. The third is the top 100 fantasy movies.

And then the last one was the top 100 comic book movies, which was dated the minute it came out, obviously. Right, of course. But yeah. They're spinning those out. For years and years, it would always be horror, sci-fi, and fantasy with the three aspects of fantastic. Fantastic Cinema. Now we have to include comic book fantasy because it looms so large.

And people can get these books on Amazon. They can get your wonderful Bible, which we've plugged before, Fantastic Television. Yeah, that's still out there. Which is still out there. And then there's still the original Bible. Which is good, too. Hey, listen, in the Bible. Once I actually tried to sell a series called the Greatest Horror Stories of the Bible, because there's possession stories. Is there a monster story?

It's true. Gary, this is fun. This is the perfect Halloween show. We thank you. I feel like I'm with my old friends just hanging out, you know. We'll come back and we'll do something else. I made another list, by the way. We'll do it for another show of more obscure Universal Horror Films.

Listen, we could go on from that. And we could go on and on forever. And we haven't even gotten to the 50s. Yes, Gary brought us a very old issue of the Monster Times. What is the year on that? God, this was about 72. It was my first professional writing. I started my career as a writer

by being the creature from the Black Lagoon in an article that was an autobiographical article. So I actually got to be one of my favorite universal monsters. That's what started my writing career. Hey, Rico Browning's still around. Think he'd be up for an interview? Wow, that would be cool, isn't it? Ben Chapman, who's the other actors, has left us now.

Because he played the creature on land. Rick could do the swimming. And the actress, the leading lady. Julian Adams. We just lost. Yeah, we missed that. That was an opportunity that. I believe Lori Nelson is still around.

She was the leading lady in revenge of the creature. Give us a list. We got to get these people on the show. Gilbert loves this stuff. Yes. I couldn't tell. As you can see. Perfect Halloween show.

Thanks, Gare. Hey, listen, I'm in town and why not? Why don't I just stop buying and do this stuff? I'm Gilbert Galtre. But you're right. You're mentioning you got to do a Val-Looten show. We will. You know, all this other stuff.

We will. I'm Gilbert Godfrey, and I've been sitting here with my co-host, Frank Fonto-Baudry. And this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. Not bad. Damn good. Thanks, Gare. My pleasure. Happy Halloween, everybody.

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