Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Rewind: Episode #35: Bob Zmuda

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

Writer, comedian and producer Bob Zmuda has had a busy career, performing, writing and producing comedy specials, co-creating the charity Comic Relief and collaborating with the late (??) great comedian/performance artist Andy Kaufman. Gilbert and Frank rang up Bob at his house in Lake Tahoe to talk about (among other things) his early days as half of the comedy duo Albrecht & Zmuda, his role in bringing the Kaufman biopic “Man on the Moon” to the screen, his controversial new book about Andy’s life, and his theory of how his old friend and collaborator pulled off the greatest hoax in comedy history. Also, Eddie Murphy takes a phone call, Tony Clifton (or was it Jim Carrey?) invades the Playboy mansion and Garth Brooks (almost) portrays Bob on the big screen. PLUS: The ventriloquist team of Dick & Stinky! Larry the Lobster gets a reprieve! Gilbert gets the axe at SNL! And a surprise guest crashes the podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey, this is Gilbert Godfrey. this is Gilbert Godfried's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre. You know, years ago, when I started out and stand-up, I used to play the improv in New York, and one of the people I would run into at the club was the late, well, supposedly late anyway, Andy Kaufman. Frank and I phoned up Andy's old partner. crime, Bob Zamuna, to get the lowdown on Andy's fascinating life and possible death. Enjoy.

Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopatra. And our guest today is a writer, actor, author, and producer who has created and produced comedy specials. For NBC and HBO, he's the co-founder and co-creator of Comic Relief, a charity that's raised over $80 million to help combat homelessness. And he was the wingman, comedy partner, and co-conspirator of the legendary Andy Kaufman and probably the person who knew him best. His new book is called Andy Kaufman,

The Truth Finally. Welcome to the show, Bob Zimuda. Thank you, Gilbert. Thank you very much. Welcome, Bob. Also, thank you. You did one of our comic release for us many years ago with, I think, Richard Bellsor. Yes, yeah, we were Dick and Stinky.

Yeah, you were, you were in truth. I don't remember Dick and Stinky. Can you tell us a little bit about that? It was, I remember it being, oh, go ahead, Bob. You sat, if you recall, it was just like a ventriloquist act. Belser came out. He was the ventriloquist, and you sat on his lap, and they drew the lines coming down from your,

from the other side of your chin. and Gilbert looks so I've got to tell you he looks so much like eventually they kind of had that red makeup on you you had a little bow tie you know it was so great people

said you know Bells and Gilbert should go on the road doing this this is fucking hysterical you know yeah because it started out by me and Richard just like we used to joke around right as Dick and Stinky and it was a lot

lot more obscene. Right, because this was on ABC, right? Yeah, yeah, so it was little harder, because he would go, hey, uh, hey there, stinky. And I'll go, fuck yourself. Why did you suck my dick? It's a little like Otto and George. Yes. And this was the early years at Bud Freeman's Improv and Rick Newman's Catcher Rising Star, right?

Oh, yes, yes. You started what year? Seventy-four? No, no. I started. When I first started doing comedy, I think it was like the end of the – I was 15. Holy shit. Yes.

15. And I think it was like – may have been 69 or something. Oh, wow. So you were there – because I got there with Albrecht, Chris Albrecht, him and I had a comedy team at, and I came in there around 74 at the improv. So you – that's right. You were already doing it. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Albrecht and Zamuda, Bob, Comedy for me.

made as Z for people who don't know. Chris, and you know Chris, and Chris, you know, did an show now, and Chris was just another actor. I went to Carnegie Mountain University. Chris went to Hofstra. We met in Summer Stock. We did some Summer Stock. And after that summer, it was about 1973 or 72.

We decided that we, you know, we wanted to become stars. So we should either go to Hollywood or New York City. Yeah. So we went to New York City and we roomed together. and just starved, had a great time, because you know Gilbert back then, who cared? It was a lot of fun, you know? Yeah. And nobody really thought that anybody's career would really hit.

Everybody was doing it because I guess none of us could, like, think of any other jobs to have, I would imagine, you know. That was basically it. He was like. And when I started, I walked in the improv with him, and then it was, and talk about, geez, you know, walking in the right place at the right time. It was, well, it was Richard Belser. it was you. It was Richard Lewis, Elaine Boozler, Larry David,

Jay Leno, Andy Kaufman, and what happened with Albrecht is that Chris, Bud was Bud Freeman, who owned the club, was going through a nasty divorce with his wife, Silver. And he was going to open a club

on the West Coast, and he thought, because Silver, as you know, Gilbert, she liked to give notes to the comics. And they didn't And they didn't like that shit. They didn't like that at all, you know. Nice lady, but they didn't like it. So Bud figured, oh, my God, if this keeps on,

they're going to desert the improv, and he'll never be able to get them to come to the West Coast. So he took Chris Albrecht, because Chris was probably back then doing a lot of coke with these guys, and he made Chris the night manager of the improv. Now, what's extraordinary about that, so then all of a sudden, when the comedy boom started taking off.

And what happened is that the agents in New York, in L.A. said, hey, this comedy thing is taken off. You know, Freddie Prince, Jimmy Walker, Gabe Kaplan, everybody was getting their own TV show. So they said, hey, we got to find out who these young comics are and sign them up. And everybody said, we don't know who they are. Who would know? Well, who would know better than Chris Albrek, who's managing the improv. So they tap Chris on ICM comes and taps Chris on the shoulder and says,

how would you like to be an agent? Chris is a nightclub owner, you know, and at the improv, he says, sure, he comes to the West Coast, and within six months, Chris becomes one of the super agents in Hollywood, because he signs up. Whoopi, he signs up, I think. Chris Rock, Billy Crystal, because all these dudes knew them. And then, what maybe a year after that, you remember the names Gilbert, Bridget Potter and over at HBO.

And she decided that they needed to rebrand HBO. Before Albrecht got there, it was just the boxing with Don King. Remember that? Oh, yeah. That's what HBO was all about. remember when HBO was like 70% of it

it was a weird kind of great station to jerk off to. Oh yeah. Because they had it, it was called like something like um, isometrics or

uh, or flexibility or they had these clips. It was like almost 24 hours of girls and spandex doing... Exercise. Yes, yes. Arroba size.

And that was the big thing back then. And the camera would follow them, and it would, you know, narrow in on their asses and crotches and tits. And that was 90% of HBO. Yeah. And boxing. Yes. And then they brought Don King and then they brought Allbrecht and they branded it comedy and that he

within six months of having that job he called me up his ex-comedy team partner and he said him and I had a comedy team at the improv and he said Zmuda you have any ideas he says I'm now a programmer

I'm not even sure what the fuck programming is and so that was the official end of Albrecht and Zimuda when when yeah well kind of ended at the improv you know he started chasing the girls and I started writing for Andy Koppel And when Andy got the gig on SNL, then I started writing for Andy. So I was covered.

He was covered, you know. But the good thing is that Chris then, so when Chris got that job, live aid with Bob Geldof's live aid where the music community got together and totally changed their image before live aid, musicians were guys that had too much pussy, smashed up hotel rooms, took too many drugs. And it totally changed the image of what the music industry could do. do when they raised all that money, you know, to help the starving in Africa. So Chris had just gotten the job. I'm watching live in. And I said, shit. I said, Chris, I call them up.

I said, Chris, you and I know everybody in the comedy business. Because Gilbert, as you know, it's just like everybody from the improv and catch at the time. That's it, you know. And everybody was going up, coming up the ladder. And I said, look, we know all these guys. We could do the live aid of comedy. and we called it comic relief. The dear Robin Williams was a good friend of mine, so I got him aboard,

and then Chris got Billy Crystal aboard through David Steinberg, and then Whoopie was brand new. She had just done the color purple. She didn't even know she was a star yet, and I think Chris called got to her, and she was excited that she could meet Billy Crystal and Robin Williams, And that's how Comic Leaf was born. We thought we were going to do it one time, and it went on 28 years, and we raised, like you said, over $80 million. It's an achievement, Bob.

You deserve a lot of credit. Well, thanks to Robin Whopi, Billy, and Chris Albreck and all the other comedians like Gilbert, you know, and Richard Bells. And as you know, every comedian out there, it's almost like you weren't in comedy unless you did a comic relief. Now, tell us how Chris Oldbrack got fired from HBO. Oh, God. You're bad. He's incorrigible. Maybe you should ask Tony Clifton about that.

Bob, before we jump to... I think Tony was dating the girl before Chris was. Okay, now... Now, we were talking, Frank and I, about... about in the book, and we heard that you once showed up at the Playboy Mansion in your Tony Clifton outfit. Yeah. And you, and all the girls thought it was Andy Kaufman. No, they thought it was Jim Carrey.

They thought it was Jim Carrey. Okay, so these, yeah, go ahead. Here's what happened. Here's what happened. We were, you know, I produced, me and Dan. Danny DeVito produced the film Man on the Moon, which was the, you know, the Andy Coppin starry that starred Jim Carrey. As Andy Coppin, Paul Giomati plays yours truly, you know, Courtney Love played Lynn Marguley's Andy's girlfriend, good friend of mine. But she's the co-author of the book you have right there, too, Lynn.

So anyway, Jim, Jim was never into Playboy much, you know, and he gets a call. Hefner had been married, happily married for years. He had kids. He wasn't messing around with the playmates or anything. This was years ago. And his wife had it. She just didn't like living in the fishbowl anymore. And she asked for a divorce from Huff.

Heff was crushed. The Playboy Company was happy because they wanted, you know, they wanted Hector to go back with the pipe and the, you know, and the soap pajamas and start putting on the lifestyle of an older person who could have all these hot chicks, you know, that sells the magazine and everything. So he came back, you know, once she left him, he put together this thing, it was one of the summer sleep parties at his night. I forgot it was what it was called.

Oh, midsummer nights. Yes. Did you go to that? I only went to one party in the history of Playboy. Yeah, well, Jim went, and Jim thought it was an old 60s, 70 things. He could give a shit about Hefner. But he gets this call right when we're doing the movie. You know, I'm a Chicago boy where, you know, where, of course, Playboy started.

Sure. So I went, well, this is cool. He says, no, this is lame. He doesn't want to go. And believe me, guys, Jim doesn't need to be going to hang around. And he's got so much pussy thrown at him. It's fucking, it's ridiculous. Seriously, it's ridiculous when we were making the movie.

Certainly then, yeah. I mean, moms like with 15-year-old daughters made up like little tramps, oh, Jim, you know, maybe you could give it an audition, you know. They didn't care if he did it. Of course, he stayed away from all that. But anyway, so he gets a call from Hefter himself. And Hefter once, Jim, because Jim is the biggest star in America at the time, $20 million a movie.

and he says, Jim, I'd like to invite you, you know, to come to my thing, you know, and Jim thinks about it, thinks about it, and he really doesn't want to go. And I said, Jim, you've got to go to this. This is too cool, man. He's okay. And he said, oh, I got an idea. He says, I'll go as Tony Clifton. Because, you know, in the movie, Man on Moon, he also plays the Tony Clifton role,

which is Andy Kaufman's Lounge Lizard character. So he calls half the back. He said he's going to go, but he says, he says, He says, Mr. Hefter. He says, I'll come, but I'm going to come in character because I'm shooting a movie now. I'm coming as this Tony Clifton character. You know, Andy Kaufman's alter ego. And I'll come.

I'm going to come in full makeup. But you've got to promise me you cannot tell anyone it's me or it's not going to be any fun for me. There's no sense of me doing it. It'll be like I'm some guy in a stupid Halloween costume. And Huff, of course, promises him because he wants Jim there. Well, so we go to Jim. So, you know, a week later, Jim's in the makeup chair at his house, and they're putting the prosthetic pieces on his face,

jowls, nose, chin, you know, the whole deal wig, to make him look like Clifton. And I checked my messages at home. You know Bill's Amy Gilbert? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Bill, Bill, the writer. And Bill, you know, had written a book about Hefner. He was good friends with Hepst.

So there's a message on my machine at home. And this is 10 minutes before Jim's going to walk out of the house. houses Tony Clifton and go to this fucking party. And it's from, and it's from, you know, it's from Zamey. And he's his mood. Hey, I hear, he says, Hector tells me that Jim's showing up as Clifton. Well, when I told Jim this, he got so fucking fuck, Fetner, that son of a bitch. He's, I'm not going now, and he starts ripping off the makeup.

He's really pissed. You know, and I said, oh, this is a downer. And he says, I told him not to tell him. He said, I'm not going there. You know, he said, how stupid is that? And then he went, wait a second. Okay, I'm going to fuck Hefter over. Hefter thinks I'm coming as Tony Clifton, meaning Jim Carrey.

And I said, yeah, he said, Zmuda, you do it. I said, no, no, no, no. He said, come on. And in years since I got in the prosthetics. No, you got to do this. So they send me over there. I show up, okay? And Clifton is so fucking.

and obnoxious. And they told him to make it look real, his name was not going to, his name was not going to be in a list to get into the place. You know,

he has to talk in. So Tony's limo shows up. There's a long line of limos. Clifton gives his limo driver a hundred bucks to start laying on the horn. Everybody, every big star should get the fuck out of the way

because Clifton's there. And he starts berating the security guy, you know, you know, and telling him, you know, and they finally,

he finally gets, and their Hector comes in and lets them in. And throughout the whole evening, Hefter is walking around with his arm around Tony Clifton, thinking it's Jim. And, you know, and I'm in the Clifton outfit. I'm sitting there. I could hear Hepner, you know, when my head's turned the other way, he's going, it's Jim Carrey, he's Jim Carrey.

You know. And we had worked it out that at midnight, the real Jim Carrey was going to show up. and he was not going to make, and we were going to play it like, he didn't know who I was, you know, he was not a part of this, you know, and so, like, around midnight's coming up, and now every one of these Playboy bimboes, I mean, they're just, you know, they got, you know, Hector's got all these old farts sitting around that place.

Wasn't Tony Curtis there? Yeah, Tony Curtis, yeah, he was there with his wife, you know. his wife wanted to fuck Tony and I think Tony and I think Tony I think Tony's wanted to join in oh no it was sick it was so fucking sick and all these

and Clifton's just blatantly asking these girls if they'll go to the grotto and do anal with them you know and they all think it's Jim Carrey so yeah of course disturbing so now it's getting closer

to fucking midnight, and I know Jim's going to be there. So I had somebody there with a camera recording all this, you know, have allowed us to do because they thought it was Jim Carrey. And I said, get on the phone and tell Jim not to get here. I'm going to get my ass. I'm going to fuck so much in this garage. So on there is Clifton getting blow jobs left and right. This is absolutely true.

And then I go back. I'm like so wasted. So I came like three times like in an hour and a half, you know. These are the hottest bitches in the world, you know. And Tony's like really just coming in their face. And it's awful, you know. With the prosthetics still on. You know, of course.

You know, they think it's, of course they think it's Jim Carrey under this. And then Hefter, then Hefter's taken me around and introduced me to everyone. And who walks in but fucking Jim Carrey? Gilbert, you should, it was the greatest double take you've ever seen in your life. Fucking Hefter's got his arm around me as Clifton. He looks at Jim. He looks at me. He looks back at Jim.

He looks back at me. And he says, screams, security! And the next thing I know, there's like five goons on me. and they pull me to the ground, Hefner bends over me, and there's people all around, they don't know what the fuck's going on. And Hefter,

I'm telling you guys, and I was scared for Hefter, because Hefter had a heart attack like a year and a half before, right? This guy had turned so red, his neck, the vein in his neck is, you know,

because my face is in the floor, you know? And he says, he says, he says to me, He says, I don't know who the fuck you are. He said, but if all these people weren't here, we'd break every bone in your fucking body. And they take me and the girl who was out doing the on the camera, and they take us out through the back.

I thought they're going to kick the shit out of us. And then that security guy, when Tony first came in there and Tony's calling him an asshole and everything, he's there. So I go, oh, this is curtains, you know. Yeah. But they let us out. They let, they didn't hurt us, they let us out. And then Jim and I, Lynn and I, you know, who was working on camera, her and I went back to Jim's house and waited, you know, for him to return. And Jim, and Jim then said to have, he said, I don't know who these people are.

And what's not. You have to go. Yeah. And then, and then the next day, and listening, because doing comic relief and Hector has come to comic relief. so I knew it wasn't going to be long before Bill Zamey filled them in and said, look, this is Bob Zmuda. And I don't want, like, Hefner, to be hating me. So the next morning, because this was Saturday night, the next Sunday morning with the Jim's house, I said, Jim, listen, we've got to get come clean with Hefner. He's going to find out anyway, and he's going to think we're both assholes for pulling.

So we jumped in Jim's car. We went over to his house, and on Sunday afternoons, he always shows these movies to, you know, He's a big movie book. Oh, yeah. So he has these Sunday, you know, these movies that are out. So when we show up, you know, they let Jim in because it's Jim Carrey, and I walk in, and Hep has about 50 people there that just about sit down to watch one of these movies. And while we walk in, we hear Heffner is telling the story of how this Tony Clifton imposter

got it that for years that Hepter pride themselves on having the greatest security. ever. There's, you know, and that people, whoever they were, they were brilliant, they were like the mission impossible squad. Now, and then we walked in and we told them, and Jim said,

you see Bob's mood here, he was, you know, and, and Jim said, you know, have, you know, I told you not to tell anybody, you did, so I, uh, pulled a prank on you and everything was great and he gave us, and we actually have this on video, everything I just described.

was on video, me being thrown to the ground and everything else. Anyway, so that's the Tony Clifton story. I'm curious with the Playboy Bunchies, did they feel like they had been raped because they were blowing the wrong guy? Well, this is funny, because when I went to the next day on Sunday, the one that Tony had shot his wad all over her face in the bathroom, when I walked in the next day, she was there.

when Bob Smuda walked and the next day she came she came on Sunday for the screening and it looked like she had been scrubbing her face all fucking night to get you know my come off it because she felt it was Jim Carrey's come

would have been fine not this not Bob Smuda who delouster yeah unknown come non-stardom come you don't want on your face

or in your ass Celebrity come. Totally different. Totally different. Good for the skin. Were they screaming rape when they found? No, no. They didn't know.

They didn't figure this out to the next day, you know. Oh, my God. They didn't know. A fucking unknown came in my face. Pretty much. Bob, we'll talk a lot more about Man on the Moon, but let's go back to the improv for a second and talk about how you first met Andy,

how he first came into your orbit. Well, it was around 173-74. Like I said, I was a struggling actor in New York, and I knew nothing about you. And as Gilbert knows, you know, now there's like, what, 20 comedy clubs in every fucking city. Oh, yeah.

Back then, it was what, the improv and catch. And that was it. Was a comic strip around back then? Nope, no. Okay. They were the last, And what's so strange is they're the only one standing now? Who is?

Of the three, of the three big clubs. Yeah. Comic strip was like the last kid on the block. Right. And improv's gone and catch is gone. Yes. Yeah. And so it's amazing.

But at the time, the improv, which was the granddaddy, even a little before catch, before Rick Newman's sketch. So anyway, this was in Hell's Kitchen. As you know, the worst part of town there. and I walk into this place, and I knew nothing, never been in a comedy club, which is the only comedy club, and I walk in, and it was very interesting, is, you know, the lineup was going out, I forgot, I think Larry David, Martin on the show, Jay Leno, everybody a fucking unknown. Nobody had two nickels to rub together, and this guy walks in with this suitcase.

Thank you very much. And he's talking to Bud Freeman, who was the owner. And at the old improv, you had to sit in the bar area, you know, and wait to the other room was emptied out, the showroom, and then you went in. So you waited for one crowd to leave, and then they'd clean up the tables. And so Andy was very clever. You know, he's the master, and we'll get into this. He's the master of the put-on, of the hopes of the humbug. And so he would come in in character, and he would talk to Bud Freeman, and he'd say,

I just come off the bus. I want to be stand-up comic. Can you please put me on? And he didn't do it in a very loud, presentational way. And what he was doing is he was kind of conditioning us, the audience, while we were waiting this room. We thought the guy was real.

And Bud would say to him, Bud would kind of hush his voice, but, you know, it was a small room, so you would hear all this. And he'd say, you know, he said, what's your name? My name, Andy. He said, well, Andy, you're very nice. nice man, but I have auditions. It's the third week Monday of every month. And why don't you? Oh, please, can I please. I just come. You said, no, I can't do that. You come back in a couple weeks. I'll be happy to we have audition night. So the show goes on and you forget about this guy.

And then at the end, because nobody would follow Kaufman. You know, the rule was, Kaufman would destroy the room and what he did was so bizarre, you know, and fucked up the audience so much nobody would follow Kaufman. So, so Bud would always put him on at the end. And he would say, ladies and gentlemen, but said that's the end of our show. He said, ladies, you know, I don't know if you were here, you know, a couple

hours ago, but a young man walked in off the street, you know, and I never do this, but I'm, you know, I don't know what he does, but he seems real nice, and please don't do this. We have auditions every, you know, three weeks. But I'm going to put him on tonight. And all I know, I don't know what he does his name is Mr. Andy

and Kaufman goes up this is the first time I see him and Kaufman goes up and the original act you know was that Latka he called it the foreign man character thank you very much

and he's an impressionist and he's terrible he's doing like I'd like to do the Ronald Reagan hello he's Ronald Reagan and the voice doesn't change it all you do Archie Bunker

and yeah the Archie Bunker you meet him get out of me bad you think that you know It's just terrible. So you're sitting there laughing, but he's so excited because you believe it's the first time this guy's been on stage. And he's so excited that he's getting laughs.

And then so you're laughing more because you go, oh, this bozo, he has no, this isn't going to go anywhere. It's just bad, but it's so bad you're laughing. And then he realizes that you're not laughing with him. you're laughing at him and he has a total meltdown on stage and he starts crying for real

and you feel so big which only catch you to laugh more and now the girls who are on dates are you know shoving their boyfriends and say if you don't quit laughing at him I'm never going to go up with you again and the place in a guy

I'll never forget this because Bud's in the back but had that little control booth there not a booth you know, he had the sound machine there, you know, for the mics and lights. And so I saw a guy get up and go back to Bud because I'm sitting there in the room. He said, he said, Mr. Freeman, he said, you never should put this guy on stage. This poor guy is going to kill himself. And then, you know, Bud's sitting there, and it was such a heavy psycho drama, and you felt, but you had to laugh, you know, and he's crying and it's awful.

And then all of a sudden, he said, I'd like to do one last impression. The Elvis Presley. And you go, oh, my God. And then a strange thing happens. But you remember this? All of a sudden there's a music cue from 2001, because that's what Elvis would use when he would come out on stage. Oh, yeah. And the lights started, the few lights that they had hanging with colored gels in it,

they start changing in relationship to this music. You're going, wait a second. and what's all this production value all of a sudden. Coffin turns around, and then coughing turns around, he combs his hair, he puts on an Elvis jacket, he strings a guitar around his neck, and he turns around, and he does for the next three minutes a drop fucking dead Elvis Presley impression. And, you know, Elvis at the end, he goes, thank you very much. And then after the, thank you very much.

He goes, thank you very much. And he becomes an idiotic character again. And everybody is scratching their fucking head, standing ovations. You know you've been had. But I now am out of my fucking mind. I'm going, I am, is this guy this foreign freak who just does this great Elvis impression? Is the whole thing a put on?

so I wait to the place empties out half hour later I'm having a few drinks at the bar and you know everybody's leaving and then coughing I found out he had his dad's car out there because then he would run over to the fucking catch a rising star and do the same fucking show so he had all these props and back then he had congas he had puppets he had this 16 millimeter

movie projector I mean the old type this is like 180 pounds you know and he's fucking you know and and he sees me standing out there and he looks at me and he could see I want to talk to him and he's got all these fucking props and he says to me can you help me I have bad

back oh so he's still in character oh yeah oh yeah I don't know I think the guys I don't know what the fuck's going on so no sooner for another 20 minutes I'm loading all this shit into the trunk of his car my back begins there at me finally everything is in there he comes he closes the trunk

Andy Kaufman looks at it. The first time he looks at him, he goes, he says, thank you very much, sucker. And he gets in the car and pulls away. That is the first time I met Andy Kaufman. And then about six months later, we became very fast friends. And then I was his writer for 10 years. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast.

But first, a word from our. sponsor. Was he doing the Mighty Mouse bit then? Oh, yeah. That was probably the first thing he did on SNL. That got him the job. And I saw, slightly off the subject, but I saw an interview with Chris, and he's, Chris Albrecht, and he's talking about, and I never knew this,

that Chris hosted a children's cabaret at the improv on the weekends that Andy headlined. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He would do the same act for kids? Well, guys, here's the crazy part where this all came from. Oh, no, it makes a lot of sense. Andy Kaufman went to a college in Boston called Graham Jr. College. There was a shit college that doesn't even exist anymore.

It was the only college that he could get into. He had very bad grades. But he wanted to be like he wanted to be a child performer. He wanted to have a TV show kind of like Buffalo Bob and Howdy Duty, you know. And so he did when he was a little kid, when he was about 10, 11 years old, he put up signs in Great Nick children's performer for their birthday parties

and he would come in and they pay him 10, 15 bucks for a kid's birthday party he would not let any adults in the room with the kids just him and the kids and he would sing Mighty Mouse songs and you know

pop goes the reed weasel and do with puppets and magic and it was all this childlike stuff well cut cut later on now he's in Graham Jr. College. Okay, he's 19 years old, 20 years old, and he's in the student union, and Andy was always a skirt chaser, and there's a hot chick who was, and she was

supposed to book the show the next night for the student union, and she didn't have any acts. So she's actually running around the cafeteria asking everybody if there's anything they know how to do that she could put them on stage tomorrow night at the coffee house at the school. And she comes up to Andy, and Andy realized he's hot, so he wants to talk to her. And she says, no, no. And she's, oh, really? He says, well, I did a kid's act when I was 11 years old. Remember, he's 20 now. She says, do that. He said, well, no, it's like kids. She says, please, I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble. I got it, but can you please do it? He's well, and he wants to layers, okay, and he goes the next night, and he does the same freaking act he did for these, you know, eight, nine-year-olds when he was like 11.

Amazing. And everybody, the juxtaposition of that childlike material for adults that became the act we know is Andy Kaufman. Isn't that wild? Yeah. If that girl had never come up to him, Gilbert, you never would have heard of that Andy Corpon, ever. Wow. And then when he – that's why – so when he audition – I have his first audition tape from Messenel, the audition tape, because I have a lot of his stuff. What did he audition with?

Because I remember him doing Mighty Mouse the first time. He did Mighty Mouse, and he did Popcles of Weasel. Right. It was the idea, once again, of taking this childlike material in front of sophisticated adults. And that's what did it. That was the lightning in the bottle. And then we realized that for a while, when he first started, for a long time, him, his manager, George Shapiro and myself, we contemplated for a while. Should he ever use his real voice?

Okay? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Should he ever use his real voice or should it always be, thank you, that foreign man voice. And he, and matter of fact, a few first times he did Johnny Carson, he stayed in character. And Johnny loved it. Because Johnny, because that was like, you know, Johnny loved if he had like a weirdo, like,

Tymy Tim or Chero, you know. Oh, yeah, he was always good with those people. Yeah, the act worked itself, because Johnny could, they would say something, and Johnny just would do those takes to the audience. Or Carol Wayne. Yeah, exactly. So that was great, you know, but then Andy decided, because he had a whole, whole box of other characters he wanted to do. He wanted to do the bad guy wrestler. He

wanted to do Tony Clifton. And basically, he said to himself, he said to me one day, if I keep this character going, I'll never get laid. He says, don't think I'm a goof like Tiny Tim. I'll never get fucking any pussy. That's funny. And that was it. So he then did it. And now what's interesting, when he then went back on Carson and dropped the character and did his own voice, Johnny didn't like it. Johnny was very uncomfortable. The dynamic that he thought he had going with Kaufman didn't work anymore. And from that day on, Andy was never on, they put him on The Tonight Show when somebody else would be hosting, Steve Allen or Steve Martin, but never again with Johnny.

Didn't know that. Yeah. Now, I heard that he started that whole wrestling thing just as basically to get some physical contact with women. Didn't he like tall muscular women, Bob? Yes, this is, you are Gilbert, you've done your homework? This is absolutely true. It started like this. His birthday was coming up, okay?

He was already on SNL, you know, and he was, you know, and he was, making good money was touring the country. And I figured, okay, now I'm his right. I got to get him something nice. But Andy wasn't really into money and shit. I figured I got to come up with a clever birthday present. And one day I go with his house, and all of the shades are down low. I see his car in front of the house.

So I know he's in there, and I'm knocking on the door. You know, and he's not answering. I don't know what the fuck's going on him. And Andy, I know, No, you're, it's Bob, Bob, let me, you know, what's going on? And so he, he opens the door, he opens the door to crack,

and he's in this fucking sweat. I said, what's going on? And I said, you would somebody, he said, no, no. He says, okay, okay, okay, come on in. He shows me. He's got, that dark as hell in the place. He's got, this is before they're like porn videos and stuff,

you know, before the videos. He has this stupid little eight millimeter little thing that's like it's like attached to a flashlight. It's what a battery, and you turn it on, and there's a little like porno thing going on it. You put your eye in this thing. This is very early, you know. I think Gilbert had one. You have that, don't you?

He has a look of familiarity on his face here. Look at the recognition. So I'm going, what? He says, well, I don't never show this to anybody. But he's, oh, you've got to see this. So I look in this. I know it's some kind of porn. I'm going,

what the fuck is this? Is it farm animals? What the fuck? You know? And I look in there, and it's two girls wrestling, but like they got, like, bikinis on.

But he's such a guilty Jewish boy. He's got, like, chairs piled up, that somebody's going to come in and catch him doing this. It was so ridiculous, you know? And I'm going,

yeah, he's, isn't that unbelievable? I said, yeah, he's, oh, man. And there was one girl named Marilyn Rubin that we knew. She was a beauty. She was an actress, unknown. And there was this other girl.

He said, oh, could you imagine those two in bikinis wrestling? You know, and I realized pop in my brain and go, ah, this is going to be my birthday present to him. So, like a few months later, it's his birthday. His parents are there, his brother and sister at his house. There's about 40 people. And I come out in a referee outfit. it. And I have this wrestling that down. He's looking. I said,

Andy, I think, what could I get you for your birthday? And I convinced these two girls who knew Andy, they wanted to get him for his birthday. I said, look, you girls wrestle in bikinis for him, you know? And that was it. That was the first time we did it. And he got

so excited. And the girl, well, Marilyn, sorry Marilyn, because people are going to hear this. But that night he fucked Marilynne Rubin. You know? Because Andy was very shy, but he figured once you could wrestle a girl, you've broken down the physical

distance. You know, and now you remember when you were teenagers, you go to the movie theater and, you know, you never, you know, and you put your arm around the girl, like for the whole fucking movie, your arm's aching, you know, and you hope, you know, but so he figured, no, if he could wrestle a girl, he could

break that down, and he could then get the third base. Because she's so already groped her. Yeah. Exactly. She's already half naked. Yeah. And he's groping her.

This thing takes off, and we decided to start putting this in our roadshow, because we played colleges. You know, we did. We were on the college circuit, so we figured, well, this, and I produced all his shows. And I figured, okay, Andy, let's do, let's separate the men, the men from the women at the college shows. So when you bought a ticket for, for Andy Kaufman. show and you went into the auditorium to see him perform we had the girls on one side and the boys on the other you know and then he would start this whole thing about how he could beat any

woman in wrestling and then i would always come out in the shows like we had about 500 bucks if a girl could pin him she'd get 500 dollars and it became a big part of the fucking show you know the schools would advertise that the girls would show up in leotards and was always and then you know we We'd select. We'd have the audience. You know, the girls would come up on stage, and I'd put my hand over their head as to who they would select. So everybody knew this wasn't rigged by the applause in the audience, you know. And they would always pick, that we'd always get down to two girls.

First of all, of course, the sexiest one, because all the guys will want to see her, you know, get wrestled, you know. And then, of course, the biggest fucking ugliest pig girl on campus. that looked like, you know, she's bigger than a guy. It looked like she could kill him. Kill him and throw him out of the audience. Well, soon, it wasn't long before Andy started working on on Dick Ebers, on Lauren Michaels, on Dick Ebers, at the time was then producing S&L

because it was that little while when Lauren left and then he came back. So Ebersaw's director. Oh, yeah, Gilbert knows something about that period. Oh, yes. So anyway, so he comes out, so Eversault gets on the show, and Andy finally convinces him to do the wrestling, you know, to do the wrestling. And so now we're on national TV, and S&L had girls, you know, and so the first time he did on SNL, there was a hot girl that came out of the audience, you know. and now remember guys I'm always the referee for these things

so here we are live on SNL going out to millions of people and he's wrestling the hell out of this girl she's hot as all go but I'm the only one who's down on the mat and this is what I hear him saying to the girl oh baby you are so hot we are on national TV right now

he said you come back to the dresser and afterwards we've got to get to and she's here a pig shout up And I'm listening to all this shit. But nine times, and we did this, and the same thing would happen across the college. And we did this. We had probably about 300 wrestling matches. And I am not lying.

Andy Kaufman betted about 80% of those girls. Incredible. Yeah. They said, oh, just come back and, you know, and this mood, I talk to them. They'll get you backstage. You know, and they just, first of all, they had the time of their lives that are being cheered on. stage. He has broken down the physical armor between both

of them, and it was really incredible. So that's how it started. Now, he would get so aroused. I was scared on that he would put on a jock strap in the dressing room. This is true before SNL. And then I would take a whole roll

of fucking Gaffer's tape. And I would wrap it around his dick and balls to pry him down. I swear to you And that's why Then he would put on Swimming trunks

These boxer swimming trunks And remember Then he put on These long johns When he wrestled It was so ludicrous And this was all down Because I thought he was going to pitch a tent

On national TV I prep for every one of these podcasts The same way, Bob, with Gilbert We keep duct tape handy Gilbert's wrapped right now He is And I've just decided to add wrestling to my head.

I'm wondering what took so long. Hey, guys, what were you hinting about something about SNL or Dick Ebersoll? What was that all about? I was on SNL right after Lawn Michael's left. He was on the Gene Dumanian era. Yes. Oh, boy. Between Warren and Ebersome.

You saw the politics beneath it all. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It wasn't nice. It wasn't nice. No. And Dick Ebersoll, I remember Dick Ebersoll came in, Gee, this is how, this is so funny.

I remember sitting in an office with Eddie Murphy, and it was just some empty office. It wasn't, yeah. And somebody goes, pick up a line two, Eddie. Someone wants to talk to you, and he goes, okay. And he picks up the phone. He goes, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no, I won't tell anyone.

No, no, it's a secret. I won't. And before he even hangs up the phone, he turns to me and goes, Gene Damanian's just been fired. Oh, ho-ho-ho-ho. And he's not going to tell anyone, right? And then she has a meeting to tell everyone to announce she's been fired. And by then, everybody knows.

And everyone's kind of like looking at the ceiling and at the ceiling and at their shoes. And then it's someone's birthday, and they bring out a birthday cake. And they're singing, happy birthday. The timing, right, yeah. And then Dick Ebersoll comes in a few days later,

announces, I'm the new producer. I'll make some minor changes. And we came back the next day, each of us are waiting one by one outside his office. I pick up a fan letter from the desk that's addressed to me from some girl in Indiana, and she goes, Dear Gilbert, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. The girl in Indiana knew. Yeah, yeah.

She knew before I knew. I was fired. Yeah, incredible. Well, see what happened. Well, ever saw us. Oh, boy, don't get me. I got to get a couple. What happened was this.

You know, because Andy was kicked off of S&L, but he was voted off. This was awful. And what happened was this. Kauffman called me one day, and he said he had gotten, what had happened is that the good thing about Lauren Michaels, Lauren was smart enough to realize Andy was a real artist.

Just leave him alone. Just a performance artist. Yeah, I'm not going to. What kind of notes am I going to give this guy other than Andy? It's too long, or it's too short. It's never going to be too short. It's too long you need to cut some time out of it. That's all, that's all, you know, Lauren would do it.

And remember, Lauren was actually a writer. He was a comedy writer for Smothers Brothers, you know. Lily Tomlin. Lauren is a very smart, you know, sophisticated guy. Ebersaw gets in there, and all of a sudden now, he's going to start giving notes to Andy. this would be like telling Picasso what colors you should use you know

it didn't go over well so they got in a big fucking screaming match you know because I heard I wasn't there that day but I heard from the from a few people who were there and they said oh no it was off it was big screaming match Andy and Ebersol

top of their voices yelling blah blah and then a couple weeks later I get a call from Andy he said hey listen he said here's a bit they want to do on SNL. What do you think about it? I said, well, what is it? He said, well, you know, did you see this Louis the lobster routine where they had a boiling pot of water and people would

call in to vote if Louis the lobster would live or die? And of course, the vote, and these were votes. This is the first time they started doing this that people could call into a number or two separate numbers for you to live or die. And of course, Louis, they weren't going to kill the lobster. So Louis lived. Well, a couple weeks later, Ebersault has the idea, let's do this with Andy. Let's make Andy Louis the lobster. Not a boiling water, but so Ebersol comes on and says, ladies and gentlemen, there's some of you who think Andy Kaufman's the genius. There are others of us who believe that he's not funny anymore, but we're going to leave it to you to decide if he is kicked off the air or if he's able to come back.

So Andy runs his spine, I said, well, Andy, they're going to kick you off. He said, you think so? I said, of course so. They saved Louis the Lobster. The next guy's going down. Just comedically, that's how it's going to work. And he said, oh, okay, he said, but he's a, I see, I said, so if I was you, I wouldn't do this.

Okay, he said, okay, well, let me think about it more. He calls me up a couple days later. said he talked to Ebersol and that they said he said Bob I'm going to do it he says here's why because Dick I said this to Dick I told him about our

conversation and he said look Andy so they vote you off that's okay he says a couple weeks later we'll have while the sketch is going on you could be in the background like sweeping up the floor or something I said well that's funny

that's a great way to bring it back in you know So I said, yeah, on that case, if that's what he's going to do fine. So Andy does the show that he's voted. I mean, they take the vote. And actually it was Eddie Murphy, who was the one. I remember. Yeah, who did this.

And the votes come in at the end. And, of course, he's kicked off the show. Just like, you know, and the audience at home is like thinking there's a comedy routine anyway, you know. Jesus Christ, two weeks before it was Louisville Lobster, you know. How serious is this? ever saw will not return coffin's calls he is actually kicked off the show now guys s anl was so powerful that show at the time was so powerful all of our dates our booking dates across the country dried up because of it wow andy was going to fuck it oh andy wanted to sue uh dick eversall nbc bc

Oh, it got ugly. It got really fucking ugly. And a matter of fact, and if you believe that Andy Kaufman died, his dad, Stanley Coffin, Andy's dad went to the grave saying that it was the stress of what Andy went through because of Dick Eversal that gave him cancer and killed him. Wow. And so he never actually returned to S&L. No.

Well, fortunately, Letterman booked Andy. at the time. Well, yeah, because Letterman loved him. Letterman just loved him. As a matter of fact, Andy would go on Letterman and then explain to him what happened, you know. Because Andy would take what really went down in his personal life, what all of us would hide, and he used that stuff as material. So he'd go on Letterman, you know, and nobody will hire me anymore and this and that, and we put a little Vaseline underneath his nose and make it look like he was crying and had him grow up here. Now, before we forget, let's get to Man on the Moon, the Jim Carrey move.

Yes, yes. I heard originally, well, everyone was up for that part. Everybody. Yeah, what it was, we were surprised. It was crazy. When it was announced, actually, when Danny DeVito announced in the trades that they were moving about Andy Kaufman, all of a sudden, these big stars, it's amazing. amazing Gilbert, how many people wanted to play big stars.

Let me give you the names that called and said, I want would like to play the role. It was Tom Hanks, Sean Penn, Nicholas Cage, Gary Oldman, Kevin, Kevin Spacey, the names went on, Jim Carrey, of course, Ed Norton. Didn't Milo Shorman want Ed Norton for the point? Yes, well, yes, he wanted, yeah, Milosh one, who directed the, film and, you know, two-time Academy Award winner for Amadeus, and one flew over the cuckus nest. Yes, Milo shw wanted Norton.

He had just done the People v. Larry Flint with Norton. Right. That Miloge directed it. And Scott and Larry, who wrote the screenplay for that, also wrote the screenplay for, a matter of fact, for Man on the Moon. Actually, they got a movie out now called Big Eyes. Yeah, we just interviewed. We just talked to Scott and Larry a couple of weeks ago.

Great guys. And they also. He also wrote Problem Child 1 and 2, so I know them. That's right. And they did. Oh, they did Ed Wood, too. That's right. You know, these guys, you know, great guys.

Yes. And so, you know, they were kind of, you know, and then, of course, DeVito wanted Jim Carrey because, you know, Jim was the big box office name, so they figured, you know, the film would open big with Jim, you know. And I heard Nicholas Cage was really high up in the room. wanted Nicholas Cage. There was something about Nicholas, I'm the one. There was something about Nicholas Cage that reminded me of Andy. And not only that, at the time, you know, Cage really had the acting chops because, you know, Man on the Moon is a serious movie. Jesus, he died at the end. So I figured, well, Jim's funny, but man, this is some heavy lifting here, at least as far as the

drama's concern. Could Jim Carrey pull this off? I was not as sure of that at all. So, I I did not want you. And so Miloche now, who was a gun for hired director, he didn't want to make the decision because if he did, that all these other names like Tom Hanks and Sean Penn, you know, and they would, you know, whoever Milo should he'd go, they'd go, well, Milos, you didn't want me when I wanted to play Andy Kaufant, so fuck you down the road, you know, so Miloge got all upset.

He said, and, you know, Milos says this Czechoslovakian, he says, this is what we do. He says, look at, let's put in the trades. Whoever wants to play Andy Kaufman must make audition tape. Because this way, a lot of these big guys, they ain't going to make audition tape. Yeah. You know, the pressure would be off of them. Well, I'm going, that's a good idea, you know, because I know that, you know.

And then I get the call I dreaded most. I get a call from Jim Carrey. Now, Jim had done comically, so I knew Jim. But I didn't know him well. And now he's the 10. And now he's the $20 million guy, and he calls me. And remember, I went Cage. I've been talking to Nicholas Cage over the phone for like months,

saying, don't, Nick, you've got the fucking role. You're the guy. As far as I'm concerned, you know. I'm not the studio, but as far as I'm concerned, you're the guy. So Jim calls me. And he says, Bob, how are you good? And I said, you know, I really want to play this role. And I made the audition tape.

And Jim's so smart guys. he says before I embarrass myself with Milo Schormann can you come over to the house and see it Bob you know and I said sure you know and I really didn't want to see it and I said when he says could you come now

yeah sure Jim so I'm driving in the house in Bel Air you know what I'm going and I'm saying to myself now Bob whatever he shows you don't say anything he could take to the bank don't say that's great say you know say hey that's interesting

You don't insult him, you know. So I go over to his house, and of course the gates open up. He's in Bel Air, you know, incredible fucking home. And, you know, and he, you know, the property is so magnificent that he actually has a movie theater on the property in its own fucking building. Okay. I walk in there, and he's got, in this theater, he's got mount out on the walls behind plexiglin. all the costumes from all those movies, the Riddler, cable guy, you know,

they're all there lined up, and he has brought in a projectionist just for me, you know, and he's going to show me this, this audition tape he made. Did he make it with Judd Apatow? Yes, yeah, Jeff, yeah. So anyway, what he, and Judd wasn't that well-known at the time, but that was his good friend,

and he brought in a candy counter guy. So he's got a full candy counter back there and everything. And he comes and he takes me back in there. And he says, and he says, Bob, he says, give me about 10. He says, I got about 10 minutes of phone calls to make. And then I'll bring on the audition tape. But help yourself to anything you want any popcorn, ice cream. So I'm sitting in there and I'm jamming this shit in my pockets because I figure,

I'll never see Jim Carrey again. I want Nicholas Cage, you know. So I'll be taking the popcorn and everything. And meanwhile, while I'm sitting there, before he comes back with the audition tape, on the big screen of the theater, he's got clips, old clips from Taxi on from Saturday Night Live, you know, you know, and it's great, and I'm sitting there and, you know, I'm watching the real Andy Cop. And then about 10 minutes later, just like he said, he shows up.

And the candy counterperson's gone, and he shows up, he's got this little brown bag. And Jim, and I'm alone with him in this dark little theater. he says okay bomb him he says well here's my audition tape and he reaches in the bag and he starts laughing like a fucking maniac and there's nothing to the bag and he tears the bag up and he's i have no fucking clue what's got i'm thinking maybe he's a fucking nut you know who's to say a big celebrity can't be a serial killer you know he's like a fucking nut and then And he says, so what do you think of my audition tape? And he points guys to the big screen.

And what he had done, you're right, he had gotten hold of his buddy, Judd Apatow. They contacted Lauren Michaels. They got the drop curtain from SNL to be put on a truck and shipped to L.A. they set this up in a studio and judge shot it and they flawlessly cut in Andy doing the Mighty Mouse routine and playing the Congos with Jim Carrey back and forth. It was flawless. It was beyond fucking belief. And I, of course, and I got quite emotional. Remember, I want fucking Nicholas Gage.

I am so taken back He had nailed it He goes This just shows you How these motherfuckers work in A guy why he's the $20 million guy Here he is auditioning for the role I would find out later

He took a month He took four days Every week for one month To learn how to play the congas Just so he could make this fucking audition tape Now I heard Later on They asked

Nicholas Cage, if he ever sent in a tape. Let me tell you that. Because it's the punch coming up. So now I stop answering my phone from Nicholas Cage. He would have been great in the part, Bob. I got this girl when she goes, God, it's Nick Cage calling it. Don't tell him. I'm not here to him.

I'm not here, you know. Because I now want Kerry. I'm totally sold on Carrie because I'm going, look, he's got the impression down. Let's start the movie with that at least. you know so he was so fucking good so anyway at the per we go to the premiere and everything and after the premiere uh we had at that man's chinese they had the party afterwards i forgot we had the party anyway so we had a big party afterwards so i'm at the bar drink and slugged a few drinks down does a tap on my shoulder i turn around and it's nicholas cage i go you get and

i go oh no no i'm stumbling all he said no bob he said no no he was really cool He said, no, no, no. Because remember, he had just seen the film, too. He said, I got to tell you. He says, good choice on your guy's part. He says, I couldn't have done what Jim did. And it's not like Cage was hurting for work anyway. You know what I mean?

And he said, he said, no. So we started tossing bag. You know, he's a big elk. You know, Cage. So we started drinking. And then, here's the punch. And then I tell him, I finally turned, you know, like 10 minutes later and everything's fine.

minds were gumbaz again. I say to him, I said, Nick, I got to ask you, why isn't it you didn't make the audition tape? Like, I blamed to like he didn't make the audition tape, you know? Yeah. And he breaks into the biggest laugh. And I did not know that he was like really good friends with Jim Carrey, right? He said, oh, yeah, the audition tape.

I'll tell you why I didn't make that audition tape because Jim Carrey called me and said, guys in our position shouldn't make audition tape. That's funny. So Nicholas Cage was okay about the whole thing. Oh, yeah, he was fine about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he was serious. He said I couldn't have done that impression.

That was spot on. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossil podcast after this. And I got to tell you something. Yeah. I did a job in Reno recently. And I went up to the Bunny Ranch. they have big brothels. I know this because Dennis Hoff's a friend of mine.

Oh, yeah. And I'm the only person in the history of the bunny ranch not to get pussy while I was out there. I know that. I was shocked. I asked Dennis. You're doing research? I said, what do you mean? He didn't get late?

He said, nope, he was, you know. Well, if he would have given me a coupon maybe and said, here, here's for. Jew, you, yeah. Yeah, here's for a free blow job. Then maybe. You don't like the prices. So did you actually go to the facility and everything? Yeah, yeah.

It was something like tie-in press thing between the club and the Bunny Ranch. Oh, I see. Okay. But they told me that you and Andy practically had your own bungalow there. Pretty much so. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much so. Now, Andy would do a thing that this was so crazy is the first time, you know, when he played

played Haras in Reno. And he had heard about these brothels. So we went into the bunny ranch. Then it was called, it was called, it wasn't called the bunny ranch at the time. Dennis added the bunny to it. But anyway, so anyway, so we walked into this brothel for the first time. They had like about 26 girls lineup, you know, and it was like, wow. And Andy's eyes were just about bugging out of his head.

and he did not, he said he didn't want to insult any of the girls by not taking them, so he was going to take them all. Now, we were playing hair as like I said, Reno for the whole week. So he had made a deal that he was going to fuck everyone before he left town, these 26 girls in about five days. And right when he'd get off state, there'd be a limo waiting for him. God bless him. jump it, he'd go over to the fucking bunny

ranch there and start nailing these girls. So he'd go in there like three four girls a night. So it wasn't exactly that the sad tragic life of Andy Kaufman that most people No, no, no, no, no. That wasn't in the movie. No, no, no.

And, you know, he was probably the first celebrity that publicly came out in support of legalized prostitution. Because he was kind of a wallflower and everything. He was kind of shy. And actually, his mom, Janice, who I was very good friends with, she was so happy that he was going to the brothel because she thought he was kind of a weird kid, and, you know, and she would say, oh, you know, call and say, well, where's Andy? Oh, he's off

at camp. She called it camp. He was relieved. Oh, he had hookers who I talk about in the book. He had hookers left and right being flown in and everything else. Now, oh, here's something I want to know. Yeah. Danny DeVito was in the movie, A Man on the Moon. Playing George Shapiro. Right. But then they go to the set of taxi,

and it's got the whole cast, and you're sitting there the whole time going, wasn't Danny DeVito on taxi? Gilbert wants to know why Danny didn't do double duty, Bob. Oh, you picked that up, did you? Yes, yes. We were wondering ourselves on the set. It was kind of like if you visited the set of the odd couple,

and there's no Jack Klugman there. Well, Danza wasn't there either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, listen, they thought about it, and they just decided, no, that would be if they put him in there, and then he's playing George with a mustache, that might fuck things up. A little surreal. It might bend a few people's minds.

Yeah, but a lot of people didn't mind it. You know, not very few people bring it up. You're one of them. them because obviously you're a stickler for detail. He's that. Now, you were played in the movie by Paul Giamatti, Bob. Paul Giamatti played me. I cast Paul Giamatti to play me.

Universal wanted to keep me happy, so they had different actors auditioned to play. What was his name committed suicide? Seymour Hoffman. Oh, Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yeah, he made an audition tape. He played me, you know. And wasn't Garth Brooks considered for the part of Bob? I get this bizarre call at 3 a.m. on a Saturday night from Milosh Foreman, who I think was stoned or something, and he calls me in the middle of nights.

Zmuda, I know who can play you. I go, Milosh, it's three, what are you talking about? For the movie, who you could, who we could cast to play you? I said, who? Garth Brooks. I go, Garth Brooks. I said, Milosh, Garth Brooks is a country. He's not even an actor.

What are you talking? about. And he says, no, no, he was on Essent. He hosted Estenelle tonight. He killed. He's good. Well, of course, I got the tape. And really, I mean, he, uh, guards was great. He held his own with the cast, you know, he was funny and everything else. And I'm thinking of myself, well, you know, maybe this might work, shit, you know. And, uh, so he, now this is where it gets funny. So I said, yeah. So we, actually, I called up, uh, well, we, actually, I called up, uh, William Morris, because I thought, you know, because then the studio is going, now I don't know about Garth Brooks, and I figured, well, I'll get, you know,

William Morris behind this maybe, so I called his agents up, and I told him about the conversation I went Milosh. The next thing I know is that Garth cancels a Friday night performance, sold-out performance, to fly to L.A., to meet Miloge at the polo lounge, and he walked. in as Tony Clifton, Garth Brooks. I'll never heard that. If you're going to play Bob Smuda in Man on the Moon, you play Bob's Muda and you play Tony Clifton because Andy handed the role, you know, to me and, you know, so he had to get

that down. So he wanted to impress Milos. He got an outfit. He got a wig. He got, you know, he did the sunglasses, the mustache. He shows up at the polo lounge as. Tony Clifton and has dinner with Miloche. Now, here's what's funny.

For some reason, William Moore, and I'm glad that Paul Gimani took the role. Jimati's wonderful. Yeah, better than Garth Brooks, I think, would have been. But Garth Brooks, but William Morris didn't want Garth Brooks to do it, so he didn't do it. But here's what's funny. About a year later, this is how great these major celebrities are, and the way, you know, the business minds things. and I'm reading the article in Rolling Stone

that Garth Brooks has a new album out and you'll remember this Gilbert, you'll remember this he did an alter ego Oh yes, Chris Gaines. And he had a little goat, it was called Chris something, he had a little, it was not good, it got bad reviews.

He had like a little goatee he had his hair different but here's what's so funny is that the article, the writer who wrote this review, view of this album, didn't like it, started it by saying. It looks like Garth Brooks has pulled, taken a page out of the Andy Kaufman alter ego Tony Clifton book.

Isn't that funny? And the guy never knew how, what about the story. So here, you know, you know, here, you know, Garth figured, hey, this, this alter ego shit, you know, I put time into it. Uh, let's do it. Small world, huh? Now, I remember when Andy Kaufman died, I was one of those that thought, oh, is this another hoax? You were 85% of the country?

Yeah. Now, you believe he may have faked his own death. I know he faked his death. Yeah. That's what my book. I know he faked his death because I helped him do it. It took about three years. And he had gotten this idea that this would be the greatest.

put on of all times, and he toyed with it. And he kept toying with this and how to do it. He would call me up. We talked about this for two and a half, three years of how to fake his death. He'd call me up when he'd say, Zmuda, he'd call me up in the middle of night. He said, how do I get my hands on a cadaver? And I said, oh, geez. I said, Andy, well, you need medical schools, you know, you could get your hands on a cadaver, but there's going to be paperwork. He said, oh, I said, so he said, oh, that's not good. I said, why did you want a cadaver? He said, he thought he'd, like, you know, fake a car accident, fiery crash, have a body in there.

And I said, and it would be Andy Kaufman. And I said, Andy, they're going to, you know, I said, they're going to check, you know, dental records. He's well, can I, he actually said, can't I knock out a couple of my teeth? And so what is? I said, no. I said, there's going to be records of your top, you have the whole jaws, you know. and so he toyed with this for a while and he finally came up with the idea that he would find somebody he really realized to pull this off because at the time as you know everybody was

waiting for him to fake something nobody was going to believe he was the boy who had cried wolf too many times he had totally bamboozled the american the public that he was critically that he had almost broken his neck when he wrestled the man Jerry Lawler in Memphis. That was all bullshit. He had convinced people, Gilbert, I did Tony Clifton for eight years. I would go on Letterman. I would go on on Merv. I would do all the show, the Miss Piggy special. Dina Shores. I would go on and they thought it was Andy Kaufman under the prosthetics. I kept this quiet. I kept this quiet until we did the movie Man on the Moon. and then Scott and Larry put in the script.

I didn't want him to. I would have gone to my grave. I did Letterman three times in Tony Clifton. The last time, David, turned to me during the commercial break and said, Andy, if I didn't know it was you, I swear it was somebody else. And this is Letterman who likes to think he's the coolest, brightest guy in the room. Totally bamboozled, Andy would be at home laughing his ass off. So truly amazing stuff.

I was talking about something. I think I forgot what I love. You were talking about how he finally came up with the right way to pull it off. Which, according to the book, the fake x-rays and a body double. No, what he did. No, he figured the way to do it was to find somebody who was dying of cancer. That was a fan of his. That was a die-hard fan of his and said, look, I want to pull off.

and with your help, pull off the ultimate hoax. He's got a real guy who was dying of cancer, his same height, same color eyes, but everything else, because of prosthetics that were used on this individual, everything else could be changed, just like me. I did, like I said, for years, I played Tony Cliff, and everybody thought it was Andy Kaufman. So he went in, he got a makeup expert to do the same thing, and then this, This is the guy that went to Cedars-Syneye Hospital, and everybody believed it was Andy Kaufman. Wow.

And I talk in detail on how that in the book, as you know, of how that was pulled off now. So anyway, this is why I came out with this book now, is because Andy, when we had asked Andy, well, how long would he go in hiding for to pull this off? Lynn Margulies, Courtney Love played in the movie. Lynn said to Andy, and he said, she said, how long would you be gone for if you pulled the scam off? A year or two, and he laughed. He said a year or two. He said, if I was a little boy about it, it'd be a year or two.

If I was a man about it, it would be 30 years. Guys, supposedly he died in 1984. Here we are, just 2014. We're at the 30-year mark. and that's the reason I wrote the book. And only because he set game of that time limit is the reason I came out, and I'm now for the first time announcing, yes, he did fake his death. I want him back.

Now, he may be dead. Let me get this straight, Gilbert, okay? I have not talked to Andy Kaufman. I have not talked to Andy Kaufman in 30 years. And for all I know, he got hit by a button. us last week. I don't know, but I will tell you this, guys, 30 years ago,

he faked his death. So he's due. It's been 30 years. He's due. And how old would he be now if he's won't? 64. 64. And didn't he threatened Bob to come back as a children's clown name, Zaney Clownie? Well, I asked him what

he said. Yeah, I asked him Andy, aren't you going to miss performing and stuff? And he's, oh, I'm going to keep performing. I said, how are you going to do that. He wanted to come back. He said, oh, I mean, he wanted to go back to his original. He never really wanted to be a big celebrity Hollywood guy.

The plan really was, and he thought, and he hated that. He had to go through all the stuff. You know, Gilbert, you know the backstabbing and everything, you know, you know how nasty this business can become. And what he went through, whatever saw at S&L, and then he was, you know, then they canceled taxi. He was kicked out of the TM movement. Oh, yeah, by the women.

Because he was wrestling women. Oh, and yeah. Could I just ask you quickly? Sure. You had an old star seance. Yes. To get in touch with Andy. Who was there?

We had a star seance over at the, that top room in the comedy store. What's that called? Oh, the belly room? Up in the belly room, because Andy loved the comedy store. on one of the anniversities May 16th of his death. And who was there was, I think it was Bobcat Goldthwaite. I think it was... Was Sagget there?

Bob Sagitt, yes, was there. I think Andy Dick was there a few other people, you know. But, and we had, I brought in a top, a real legit, top, seance person and said, could not make... They made contact with some other spirit that was hanging around some waitress. I like the term a legit sales woman. Yeah. There's some people who believe in this stuff. It's like a totally honest cotton man, I found.

So Andy did not come through, Bob. He did not come through, which is further proof that he's still alive. I love it. I love it. This is strange. Gilbert's phone is, his phone is ringing. Yeah, oh. Yeah.

Well, shut the phone off. We're supposed to be doing this. Sorry about that. Yeah, this is, yeah, this guy called, this is the third time this guy's called. He says you're full of shit, and he wants to know if he could tell you on the air. I don't know if you want me to just hang up on him. Yeah, go on. Put him out.

I don't give a shit. You want to put him on? I guess if it's okay with you, because he sounds like an asshole. Okay, we'll put him on. Okay, hang on a second, Bob. Darren and I'll set this up. Okay, put the phone by the mic. Go ahead.

Are you guys setting me up? You're talking to him. Oh. Hello? Hi. Wait, hello? Who's that? Tony Clifton.

Who do you think of his asshole? Gilbert. We're sorry. We're sorry about this, Bob. I'll tell you what they know, I'll talk to him. No, I'll talk to him. You want to talk to him? You, I'll talk to you.

I'll talk to you. I'll talk to you, fucking load up. I read your book and never read such bullshit in my life. Tony, Tony, but treat our guests with a little bit more respect than that. Hey, listen, Tony, Tony, I'm still out, I'm listening. Listen, you are a dumb fucking Pollock. I don't that much. Okay.

First of all, I agree. I agree with Elaine Boozler who has come out publicly and saying that you are nothing more than a low-life fucking Megan feeding off the fucking dead body of your friend. Now what kind of friend

are you that you were right to talk about him? Wow. Hey listen Tony, is he on? He's still there. I am not. Just fucking talk, asshole. Well, if you just calm down, I'll talk a little. Okay, if you give me a chance.

I won't give me a chance. you're going to hear. Speak your peace. Because I think you're the biggest piece of shit to do this. You're just good marketing. I think it went all the end of the bank, making money,

coming up with these fucking phony fucking stories. And I think this goof, Jew boy Gilbert here who's talking you on the air helping yourself books and line your pocket over your dead buddy. Wow. Hey, Gilbert?

Yeah. Um, I'm kind of surprised you would do this to me. No, he's got nothing to do it. He's a dumb fucking Joe himself. Look. That's how it is. So anyways, Lord, I think you're full of shit.

I don't think anybody should buy this fucking book. And I'm just telling you. And I think of coughing, that guy is as dead as a doorknob. And I don't think he was a cocks sucker. And I opened for him a few times, and he never tried to pinch my ass with anything backstage. And as you know, I'm, you know, few years ago when he was still alive, I was quite a handsome dude.

Wow. Well, Tony, I don't know what to say, Gilbert, yeah, well. This is awkward. Okay, well, you know. I don't know. I mean, I didn't know if you wanted... And I'll tell you nothing about this morning.

He's a dumb fucking Polack. That reminds me. You hear about the Polack whose wife had triplets? No. You went out looking for the two other guys. Hey, wow. Polish parachute. Open on him.

contact. Bob, we have to apologize. We figured you guys were all, we figured you guys. I got another Polish, don't let that dump go up. Every half a Polish firing squad. They stand in a circle. Stupid Polack. He won a gold medal in the fucking Olympics.

He had it bronzed. Okay, Tony, listen, I, you know, Jesus. Okay, Tony, hey, maybe we had enough of them, Gil. It's up to you, you know? Well, we... Don't get me off the fucking life. Hey, hear about the Polish lesbian? Yeah, she liked men.

Okay, well, that's all I want to say. Okay, well, Tony, thanks for calling in. And don't buy that fucking scoundrel's book. He's a scoundrel. Elaine Boasler's right. He's a maggot living off the dead bones of his father's friend. Tony, that makes no sense because I believe Andy Kaufman's still alive. Yeah, well, I think you're an asshole.

So, so you, Tony, you think that Bob is some kind of a ghoul or something? He's a fucking, he's a fucking dumb Polarck trying to make a few bucks. form fucking self. That's what it's all about? Hey, hey, what, what the Polish girl do after she suck cock? Why? She spit out the feathers. All right, Tony.

Well, thanks for calling in. We appreciate it hearing from you. Hey, wait, why are you got to get up to... Hello? Yeah. Is he gone? We cut him off. Oh, yeah.

We cut him off. He was a little over the top. Boy, Gilbert, thanks a lot. What? I gave you the option. You didn't say it was Tony Clift? going to be on. Yeah, I, well, he's so cold.

I forgive you guys, but wow. We figured you guys had a, we, you guys had a background. You had, you'd work together. What a maniac, you know. You know, because, you know, and, you know, that's the real, was the real Tony Clifton. You know, he tried to show up to the son of man on the moon. And, of course, universal abandon from the lot and the whole thing, you know. He's a nut.

Which brings me to a question to start to wrap this up, Bob. I understand there's a script floating around the Tony Clifton story. What happened? Yes. What happened to that project? Well, Universal owns it. Andy and I started writing that back in 81. Now, here's what's interesting.

Here's a little piece of fact that if people want to figure out that Andy Coppin, to prove that Andy Coppin did fake his death and had thought about it three years before. We're working. We had a bungalow on the back lot at Universal. So, Compton shows up one day. He had been up all night. He's got some papers, and he says, oh, we've got to change the Tony Clifton script.

I said, what, why, why? He said, look, read this. And he gave me this page. And in it, he wanted in the movie, the movie is the Tony Clifton story about Tony Clifton. And in the movie, he wants Tony to die at Cedarsight Night Hospital of Cancer. guys Andy Coppin would die of cancer supposedly at Cedar Sinai Hospital four years later. That is a fact that's in the script.

It's in the vault at Universal Studios. We had a guy from UCLA in the statistics department do odds. The chance of you naming what you would die of and what hospital is something like, like 840,000 to one, an impossibility. Now, briefly, before we wrap up, how were the, what were the memories of the taxi crew about Andy? Were they still kind of like pissed off? Well, this is a good question to wrap up on, because this is one of the most bizarre things.

And I talk about it extensively in the book. is Danny DeVito, as you know, was a member of the cast. And Danny was the one who got this movie made at Universal. You know, and he's the guy, he had to clout because he had done, you know, Danny's a big movie producer. American Public doesn't even know this. You know, he did Pope Fiction. That was Danny DeVito.

Jersey Films. Yeah, you know, and big movies. And so he got this movie made. And, you know, they do what they call an electronic press kit for a film. where you sit people down and, you know, when they're making the movie for publicity. And Lynn was the one, because Lynn was a filmmaker herself, so they threw Lynn a few coins to do the EPK, as they call it, for the Man in the Moon. She came in one day to my office on the set and said,

you ain't going to believe it. I just interviewed Danny DeVito. I said, yeah. And Danny was talking about Andy's funeral in Great Nick, and how he was there. I went, wait a second. Danny DeVito wasn't there. I was any of the cast members of Taxi.

She says, I know. But Danny's line on this EPK that he was there. And then it hit me. This is the reason Danny DeVito made this movie to rewrite history. If you see the movie Man on the Moon, you will see that in the funeral scene, in Great Neck, Not only is Danny there, but the entire cast of taxi. And in real life, it never happened. Not only this, the day we shot that scene, and we shot most of this movie on the Universal lot,

you know, about 95% of it. But for some reason, on that day to shoot this, we went out, I think, to pass a Dina to some cemetery that had a chapel, the whole cast went the whole crew about 300 extras and I'm going, why the fuck are they spending this kind of money? We could do this on the back lot. Danny DeVito wanted to recreate and rewrite history and shoot the whole scene at the cemetery in this chapel and rewrite history because I think he was so fucking guilty

that he and the cast did not. show up to Andy Kaufman's funeral. Guys, it gets weirder. They spent $35,000. My mom, I'm a co-executive producer on this movie. So I see all the invoices. They spent $35,000 with a guy making a wax reconstruction of Andy Kaufman in the casket, like to look like Jim Carrey. They could have had Jim lay in there and get the shot. They didn't want it. After shooting had stopped, it was the most bizarre fucking moment of my life.

I'm there with the cast and with the cast members, original cast members of taxi.

In this chapel, Danny said a few words and he went up to the casket where this $35,000

wax figure of Andy Kaufman was in it and he said a few words this was not on camera. And he

closed it and they wept. And I'm telling you, this was the psychological imperative is why Danny DeVito made that movie. Fascinating. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah, true.

So anyway, to wrap up, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we have been talking to Bob Zamuda. We want to wrap before Tony calls back. Yes. Whose new book is Andy Kaufman, the truth finally. And Andy, if you're out there, send us a sign. Or at least buy a copy of the book.

Thank you. Bob, this was informative, fascinating. Thanks for doing it. Thanks so much, guys. Thank you, Bob. We appreciate it. Gilbert, if you're up in Reno anytime, you know, contact. I live up in South Lake Tahoe.

Oh, yeah? We'll go to the ranch together. You got a coupon for him? Huh? You got a coupon for him? I got a coupon for him. Okay, I'll be there. All right, my friend.

Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you, Bob. Bye-bye.