Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Rewind: Episode #38: Alan Zweibel

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Emmy award-winning writer Alan Zweibel started out in show business by peddling jokes to Catskills comics at seven bucks a pop, before a chance meeting with Lorne Michaels led to a staff job on the hottest new show on television, “Saturday Night Live.” Alan joined Gilbert and Frank at the George Burns Room at the Friars Club to talk about the earliest days of SNL, co-creating the groundbreaking “It’s Garry Shandling’s Show” and collaborating with everyone from Gilda Radner to Billy Crystal. Also: Alan heckles Larry David’s act, “borrows from” Paul Simon, turns down “Hollywood Squares” and inspires a classic “Seinfeld” episode. PLUS: Totie Fields! Christopher Lee! The subversiveness of “Duck Soup”! Uncle Miltie gets banned! And Gilbert tries (unsuccessfully) to follow The Beatles! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fried Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre. And I'd like to give a shout out to two of our loyal contributors to Patriot. The first one is Ryan Story. Ryan Story. And the second one is Frederick. He didn't give me a last name. So he's kind of a fan, but he doesn't want people to know it. He doesn't want people to find him and go,

you actually listen to Gilbert Gottfried? That's what you do with your life. So he's just Frederick from Oslo, Norway, where it's, I think most of my fans are from, Oslo, Norway. But Frederick, in touch with me and give me your last name. I'll say your last name on the air. But, uh,

also you can contribute to patron. And it's... Frank. God sakes. What hell do I have you here for? The one time I need you. Usually you're just interrupting me when you're not wanted. But now all of a sudden...

Well, you didn't send me up here. you. And you're just leaving me out in the cold. Do you want to know what happens when people donate to Patreon? Would you like to know? Well, you donate a set amount every month and you get exclusive benefits. How? Including early access to episodes.

You get to take part in our very cool video hangout, which is just images of Gilbert walking around in slippers. He's stolen from various hotels. social media shoutouts like the one you just heard and also we will read your spiel or your whatever it is you want read on the show and I understand the Unabomber is a big fan of the show read his manifesto so that's patreon.com

you go to patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried to contribute to our show and it's sort of like PBS Gilbert without the tote bag Or a CD of Poverati. Just like that. McKenzie Phillips doesn't come on and bullshit for 40 minutes while you're trying to watch a documentary about the Mamas and the Pappas.

Yeah, it's like you don't get behind the scenes information about Dalton Abbey. Dalton Abbey. Yes. So, again, that is patreon.com folks slash Gilbert Godfrey. And thank you, Ryan Story and Frederick from Oslo, Norway. Tell us your last name, for God's sakes. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank, Santo Padre, and we're coming to you today from the George Burns Room at the historic New York Friars Club.

And our guest today is one of the funniest and most prolific comedy writers of the past 40 years. He's a multiple Emmy winner who's written classic shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm and it's Gary Shandling show, which he also co-created. He's written movies, broadways, plays, novels. He's one of the, he won the prestigious. Thurber Award. He was also a staff writer on the original Saturday Night Live and an eyewitness to television comedy history. He's also the tallest Jew to ever work in show business, our pal Alan Swibel. Well, you mean to tell me, in the 40 years that you claim that I've been doing this, I've never seen a Jew taller than myself

that I've either looked eye level at somebody or down. Yes, yes. Who, name some tall Jews, you know? Larry David's pretty tall. Oh, he is a tall Jew. Where's Billy Crystal shorter? Oh, Jeff Goldblum. That's a tall Jew's a very tall Jew.

But he's not a tall Jewish writer. He's a tall Jewish actor. Yes. Oh, we're talking only about tall Jewish writers. I thought you were. I can talk about any kind of tall Jew you want. I can think about tall Jewish basketball, Neil Simon is short.

He wouldn't see. He's not a pitch-square. He's average height. Yeah, so he's not a tall Jewish height. Well, he was average height for like our father's generation. Oh, yes. Short for our generation. What are you, 6-1, Alan? 6-2?

No, 6-1. 6-1. 6-foot. Okay. I just added the one because you did. Okay. I got it. I got it. That's all right.

Call Reiner sort of tall. Oh, yes. Call Reiner's a tall Jew writer. He's also a 90-year-old. 92-year-old Jew, right? Oh, yes, yes. But I don't think he's lost height during these 92 years. Now, that's interesting, because most people lose height. Well, you know something?

Now that I think about it, maybe I lost the same amount of height, so he looks just as tall to me. It could be that. Now, what about Arthur Miller? He looked tall. He looked tall. Listen, would Marilyn Monroe marry a... A short Jew writer? I don't think so.

Oh, no, no. She married Joe DiMaggio, who was, I guess, a tall Italian baseball player. Italian sitcom writer. Yes. Oh, yeah, I was thinking of a different Joe DiMaggio. That's right. The Joe DiMaggio you're talking about was a sitcom. He wrote from Life of Riley, I believe.

And he spelled DiMaggio differently because he was actually a Jew. Yes. I wish I had something to say to that, but I think you're right. Now, you told us, we're at the Friars Club, and you were telling us why you were delayed. Okay. I was delayed, and I think that this was really nice to me, and I think the 12 people who are listening to this will agree. You're generous. The upwards of a dozen people who might hear this will think that this was really nice to me,

knowing that this was a podcast, okay? So I know that pod. That's a foot. Yeah. Is it? Is it? Like two peas in a pod? That's a, yeah.

Is that right? Well, a pod is like, see, I always think in terms of like Kevin McCarthy warning people. The pod reference. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. See, where I go a little bit more elementary, like two peas in a pot. Yeah. But thinking we were going to be two peas in a pod, actually three peas.

Because Frank is here, I thought I was doing everybody a big favor by going, upstairs. So were three peas. So this is a Jew with bad prostate. Well, I peed three times. Plus, what I did was I went upstairs to the Friars lavatory and I used mouthwash thinking we would be so close. Why would I want to offend people?

It's a considerate thing. Yeah, it's a very considerate thing. You thought we'd be making out during the podcast? Listen, I have my dreams and if this goes the way I expected to, I... We can reach some sort of crest and hug and whatever happens afterwards, I'm willing to go with it. Yes. You may be our most considerate guest, Alan. Now you're a writer, I hear.

You know something I've heard that, too? It's a vicious lie. But yes, I wake up 5.30 every morning, and I sit down, and I try to be very funny. Yeah, it's really a pleasure. It's a living hell, the whole thing. You tried doing this. You have tried. I've tried and failed miserably.

And that's why I'm doing a podcast. So if I listen to you, I have a podcast in my future. Yeah, you're the only person I know who doesn't have a podcast. Well, they're not down to the Z's yet. Tell us about watching the Van Dyke show as a kid and you actually got inspired to do this with your life. That was the greatest. And I know lots of people who are my age who do what we do for a living, they say, what made you want to become a comedy writer?

And I know personally, and like I said, this same story is shared by others. I used to watch the Dick Van Dyke show. I was like 12 years old when it came on. And, you know, wow, wow, look at this. Comedy writer, TV comedy writer. He's a nice looking man. He's got a very pretty wife, you know, Mary Talibor.

A very nice house in New Rochelle. They got a kid, Richie. And when he goes to work, he lies on his back on the couch, He jokes around with Buddy and Salmon had that. I want to do that. That's this very heavy, little heavy lifting. That's what I want to do.

Now, you then years later, when you were a working writer, successful writer, you were in an elevator. Well, here, this was, we can put this in the sad columns. We'd like to start the show with sadness. The sadness and then build from here,

rise from the ashes. I was writing a Steve Martin special that Lorne Michaels was producing for NBC. That's Channel 4, Gilbert. And we were rehearsing in these studios, I think, called Nola. It was on Broadway in 57th. And we were in Studio A, rehearsing for this live special. Dick Van Dyke was doing a special,

and he was rehearsing in Studio B. I knew he was in there, and I waited one night for him to come out because I wanted to meet him and spend some special. some time with him. He came out and we shared an elevator and on our way down, I just said to him, I said, look, Mr. Van Dyke, I've got to tell you what kind of influence you are on me. I said, I used to watch his show, you know, married, had a kid. And my wife, we had just had our first son, Adam. I said, we just had our first son. I'm a comedy writer. We're going to buy a house. Maybe it will be New Rochelle, but if not, it will be sort of like New Rochelle. And I just wanted to thank you for

everything for the inspiration. And he put his arm around me and he said, Alan, just a little word of warning here. After five years, the Dick Van Dyke show was canceled and I became an alcoholic. So I said, gee, boy, I hope this elevator goes a lot

faster than it's going right now. Couldn't wait to get off there. It really deflated me. And you said you actually started getting teary-eyed. I did. Because this is I had nothing but good things in good thoughts and I thought that

somebody wanted, would like to hear that, that, you know, that they were an influence on somebody and that everything that he represented was coming true for me. This was probably the last thing I wanted to, yeah. I didn't expect it, number one, and I looked for like

a little hint of, you know, like a wink or a thing that made it, it's okay, but he was pretty serious about it, you know, and I met him years later and he had no recollection of this, which led me to believe that he told story to a lot of people. It's not like, oh, yeah, you're the guy I told that to.

Uh-uh. That didn't come up. I heard you started crying. I was a little bit of tears, and I believe I banged on the elevator door at one point. Yeah. Drop your knees and screamed, why? Why, why, why did I take this elevator? You were turning into Nancy Garrett. I had no doubt.

Oh, Jesus. Wow, look at this. We're 12 minutes into this and a Tanya Harding reference. comes up. Why? Why? Turned into Nancy Kerrigan. That's great.

Yes. Which, who, surprisingly, if they told Jewish comedy writer. Well, look at this. See how this comes full circle. It's like a Dickens novel. It all ties in at the end. Now, how did you start in the business?

Well, I started, um, this decision was not made for me. to become a comedy writer. This was not my idea. The decision was made for me about 40 years ago by every law school in the United States. They all sat down,

they looked at my LSAT scores, and they go, now this is silly. Why even bother with this? I started writing jokes for stand-up comedians who played the Catskills, Borsh Belt. Every Morty, Mickey, Freddie, Dickie, and Lee that ever lived, I wrote for $7.

I wrote jokes for them. And that's how I started. They would pay me, and some of them were real pains in the ass because they would only pay me if the joke got a laugh. So I moved in with my parents after college. So I'm living at home on Long Island, and I would get in a car, borrow their car, and drive up to the Catskill Mountains,

which was only 100 miles away, and sit in the back of the Nevely or the Concord or some nightclub, and watch them do the joke or jokes. And invariably they'd come off the stage and they'd go shaking their head, you know, Alan, that joke about paving the driveway went right into the toilet. And I go, gee, you know, I heard laughs.

So that we would bargain, and I'd go home with $4. So I was going nowhere really, really fast. Who were some of these comics, Alan? Because Gilbert and I were fans and we would know some of these names. You'll know them all. There were great guys also, Morty Gunty, who was in. He was in Broadway Danny Rose, Morty Gunti.

Yes, indeed he was. He was at the table at the Carnegie. Freddie Roman was very generous with me, very nice guy. Dick Capri was another great guy. Vic Arnell, Billy Baxter, then there was Lee Stanley and Stanley Lee. And it was frustrating, you know, because they were older than me. It was like writing for my parents' friends. You know, I'm 21.

And Freddie, who is very nice to me, says, Alan's sperm banks are in the news. Can you write me a sperm bank joke? I'm 21. Like, I give a shit about sperm banks. So I write, you know, they have a new thing now called sperm banks, which is just like an ordinary bank, except here after you make a deposit, you'd lose interest.

Great joke. So now the word goes out. There's a new sperm bank guy in town, okay? So another comic calls up. I've got sperm bank jokes. I go, fuck, I'm going to do the sperm bank jokes. So I wrote another one. I think it might have been for Freddie or maybe with somebody else.

I looked into the future because they were freezing sperm. And I said, you know, this could be a problem in the future because it's hard enough telling the kid he's adopted. How do you tell me it's been defrosted, okay? $7, ladies and gentlemen. Wasn't there an $18 joke, even though the going rate was seven? Well, I'll tell you, there was a feeding frenzy. I had written, okay.

I got, I got $18. for a joke that I had written about a Hasidic orgy which was very unusual because the men were on one side of the room and the women were on the other. They were they were plowing each other. They were counting the show.

They'd get to that joke. It was just pure joke writing. These guys were interchangeable to a great extent. They were tuxedoed guys who got up on stage and told you jokes. But there was no distinct personality

years later it was easier like writing for like Rodney because Rodney had the thing I don't get no respect so to have him say even as an infant I didn't get in respect my mother wouldn't breastfeed me she said she liked me as a friend

see that was easy to have him say this stuff you know but these other guys was just pure joke writing so I took all the jokes they wouldn't buy for me and I made it into a stand-up act myself and that's where I met you a million years ago I went on stage at the improv

and Catch a Rising Star to tell these jokes. I was going to ask, when did you guys meet? Do you have a recollection? I remember Gilbert at the improv. This must have been 74. Were you there? Oh, yeah.

Well, he started when he was 15. I saw you, the first time I ever saw you, you had circular bar trade. I still use it. Why throw anything out? Why update anything? Because what was good 40 years ago, it's back again.

It's back now. It's it. But you used to take two circular bar trays, bar trays, I remember, and put it on either side of you, and go iron sides. Yes. Jeez, I remember that bit.

I became friends with Larry David, and the people, Elaine Boozler was around back then, at Bluestone. And I remember you used to do a thing with Larry David, where you'd be a heckler in the audience. Yeah, I'd be a guy from Palermo,

for some reason. I can't do accents. I can't do anything. But some reason, at one point in Larry's act, when I thought that he had gotten more than enough laughs for that evening, I would come in and I would just start taking the chairs and tables and making sort of a ruckus over it. And we would talk.

And I would be the, he called me the Italian gentleman. And if you remember, we were just talking to Susie Esmer about it, how Larry. was like the worst on stage if he thought somebody wasn't laughing. Well, it was amazing because, like, on a Friday night, Bud Friedman would give me, let's say, the 9-20 slot to go on. And let's say Larry was on at 9 o'clock, okay? So I would follow him theoretically 20 minutes later.

But if I knew that Larry was getting on at 9, I'd also get to the club at 9 because I could very well be getting on at 901. if Larry didn't like what he saw out there. Because he would get up there sometimes for literally 30 seconds. I don't like you people. And put the mic back and walk off. It was legendary what he used to do. I wonder if Susie told you, this is, I'm quoting Larry now, okay?

We all used to sit in the back of the club because Larry was on a different plane than everybody, you know. And he'd get up on a Friday. night at the improv and you had a real white bread sort of audience from jersey with lime pants, you know, and blue hair, you know who I'm talking about. And these fat wives would drag their husbands in. Now they're at the club. Larry in those days used to have wire rim glasses. He had hairs and it was like a sort of curly afro.

Yeah, yeah, like the Jewfro. The Jew fro. The Jew fro. And he had a green army fatigue jacket. Oh, yes, yes. Right, because he was in the reserves or something. And he'd get on stage, and I'd be sitting in the back with other comedians, and he'd look at it, like I said, this, it looks like the young Kippa audience out there, okay?

This was not your hip room. And Larry's first words would be something along the lines. He says, I feel very comfortable with you people tonight. In fact, I feel so comfortable that I'm thinking of using the two form of the verb instead of Ustead. Now, I'm laughing my ass off in the back because A, I think it's really funny And B, there's audiences in oil painting at this point Okay?

There's like sagebrush going through. They're just frozen. So, you know, better than anyone, that whatever a comedian hits a snag, you go another way, especially right out of the box. But Larry just kept on going. He says, I think a lot of people misused the two-forms. He said, like when they stabs Caesar.

He looked at his friend Brutus and said, A2 Brutus. And even Brutus said, Caesar, I just stabbed you. But there was ever a time for who said, it's now. And the audience would just stare at him. And then he'd go, I don't like you people, and walk off. And I'd get on at 901. Susie said he was doing a bid, and he involved a bungalow.

And somebody had the audacity to say, what's a bungalow? And that was too much for him. He just slipped. I didn't know that. He just left. He didn't want to deal with anybody He didn't know what a bungalow was

See no no that I didn't know Quite often they'd have to separate them Like Larry would get into a fight With someone like they were going outside Well the beautiful thing about Larry is He stuck to his guns And he waited for the rest of the world To catch up to him

You know what I mean When you think about it There were times that he would write scripts And he didn't have a pot to pee in Okay He would write a script And producers were willing to give him what for him

at that time was a lot of money and but let's can we change that from a red tie to a blue tie they'd give him a note like that and Larry goes it's supposed to be a red tie and he turned down okay he would

when we you know when I was doing it's Gary Shaling's show I gave him a script to write and it almost took a toll on our friendship because the show is in full stride at this point and changes how to be made in it, Larry's script was fantastic,

but at that point it was for another show because the show had evolved into something else. And he always, always saw things his way, and it ended up that the world then became ready for Larry. The beautiful thing about him, and we're still best friends at this point, is that if you go to our house and look through our albums, oh yeah, that's when Larry slept on our couch in the Hamptons.

So that's when Larry went with us to the Bahamas. My wife, you would buy him a pajamas or a toaster oven and stuff. And now he can walk down the street and go, that's a nice building, put that in the car. I need a new stadium, put that in there. And I couldn't be more proud of him. It's inspiring. That's how things got up to him. It's really inspiring, and it should be a lesson to everybody.

Yeah, and we met. You and I met at the Improv. Yes, indeed, we did. And I always used to stay to watch you because I never saw anything like this before in my life. I didn't know how to describe it. And I would go home and tell people, there's this guy. And I didn't get much further than that. I just said, there's this guy.

And then one time my parents came to the club, I went, that's the guy. The guy doing Ben Gazara jokes. Ben Gazara jokes. Yeah. Yeah. So you decided to do your own material. Just to advertise my writing. Right.

Just to advertise my writing and hoping that a manager and agent, somebody would come in and help me get a job as a writer. You were doing your failed jokes. Getting the ones that they wouldn't buy. The ones that didn't sell. The ones that didn't sell to those guys. Well, there was one joke I wrote for them. There was one joke I wrote for them that they didn't buy. And when I ultimately auditioned with Lorne Michaels to show him my jokes, because,

he was looking for writers for this brand new show that was going to be called Saturday Night Live. I typed up what I believed were 1100 of my best jokes. I met him in the city and he opened the book and the first book, the first book, the first joke was a joke that I had written for the Catskill guys. None of them bought the joke. He read that one joke and he said, very good. And he closed the book. And basically, and he even tells the story that that joke turned his head around. and very much got me the job.

I mean, they read the rest of the jokes, ultimately. But I had written a joke just to show you how long ago it was from the reference points saying that the post office was going to issue a stamp commemorating prostitution in the United States. It's a 10-cent stamp. If you want to lick it, it's a quarter. And he liked it, you know. And think about how long ago that was.

There's no more 10-cent stamps. There's not even quarter cents. And you don't lick stamps anymore. Right. Yeah. That's 1975, right? So I might as well be doing Brontosaurus jokes at this point.

Yeah, there's barely a post office left. That's right. That's right, yeah. I wonder if I can change that into like an Instagram joke. No, I go to when I do my speaking engagements. If I'm speaking to people like our age, no explanation is needed. But if I'm going to a college with your 17 and 18-year-old kids,

when I get up to that to tell them that joke that got me the job on SNL. I hold my breath just a little because I don't know if it's going to make sense to them. They're 17 years old, 18 years old. They have no concept that stamps were ever licked. Right. Yeah. Very possibly.

The idea of mailing letters is like something that's forgotten about. Yeah, those big, big things, those depositories are on the corner, street corners that are painted red and blue sometimes and people shove stuff. What is that for? Yeah, think about it.

I wonder about that. Has the mail, has a post office, is there less mail that's going out and around? Good question. Do messengers still exist, given that there are emails and fax machines are out of? Yeah, I don't think there are messengers, too many messengers anymore. I had a few messenger jobs when I was like, yeah. They said take this affidavit and bring it down to the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now I would have lost work. Now I feel badly about the work you would have lost. So Lauren offers you a job on the strength, essentially, of this one joke. Well, I think it turned his head a little bit. There were literally 1,100 jokes in there that he had to show Dick Ebersoll and the folks at NBC about. But, yeah, I think that this, yeah, turned his head a bit. And you were offered another show. This was amazing.

As fate would have it. See, I was writing for all these comedians, okay? And a lot of them used to open for Tody Fields. Do you remember her? Oh, yes, yes. Of course. Tody Fields was managed by a man named Haley Hindustine back then. And so I used to go to those shows that I wrote for these comedians for.

I met this Howie Hinderstein because Tody Fields was the closing act. He took a liking to me. He was very friendly with the producers of Hollywood Squares. Okay? So he said, why don't you write a lot of questions and bluff answers for Paul Lind? maybe who knows maybe this could be your first job so I wrote a bunch of them

I gave it to him he submitted it literally the same week that Lauren gives me the job on this new show I get this phone call I got a job if I want it as a writer

for the Hollywood Squares now it sounds crazy in retrospect but in 1975 Hollywood Squares was going into like its ninth season it was on the West Coast where the whole industry is prime time, which was a higher pay scale, and it had all these stars.

It was an established brand. Well, it was a stoutre. But individually, in each box, there was a star that had a Las Vegas act on a TV show. This was a great entree into the business, as opposed to East Coast, late night. Who watches television on Saturday night at 11.30, except people who can't get late, okay? And who's John Belushi? And what is this? Sure.

So there was a bit of a hesitation. All of a sudden, I had to make a career move. I was slicing locks in a deli. So now all of a sudden, I went from slicing locks. Gee, I got a decision to make. Look who has a decision to make. I think you made the right one. And what, like Saturday Night Live, people don't realize how revolutionary it was.

Because what were some of the other shows on the air? You know, back in those days, and I have, and I remember them because I have a folder with the rejects that, the rejection letters that they sent me when I would submit material. Carol Burnett was the gold standard at the time, but Rich Lidlittle had a show, the Jackson Five had a show, Cosby had a show, Flip Wilson had a show. everybody eventually had their own variety show. Bobby Vinton. Singers had their own. So that was, but I just remember growing up watching those kinds of variety shows,

Sonny and Cher had a show, Bobby Darren had a show, and sitting and watching these shows. Tom Jones. Tom Jones had a show. The Starline vocal band was given a summer replacement show. Summer replacement show. And as a kid, I would watch these shows. I would hear people laughing on television.

and stuff that I didn't think was funny. I'm going, what is this? This is crazy. But this, there was something the way Lauren had described this show, it seemed like even if it wasn't going to be successful, it was going to be the sensibility that I thought I had because it was geared to the sons and daughters of those comics that I couldn't write for.

You know what I mean? It was Alan King's children's generation of which I was a part of. It was the baby boomers, and Lorna had always said, it's our time to make each other laugh. And that was the only standard that we had when the show started. He said, let's make each other laugh,

and if we do, we'll put it on television, and hopefully there'll be enough people who like us and tell their friends about it. You're 24, 25. I was 24. Yeah, when he hired me, 25 when the show started. I remember, like those, you know, Frank and I quite often will talk about these different comedy shows.

and the writing on them, it's like it could be Bob Hope, it could be like a current pop star. It's a formula. I mean, they were written by older comedy writers. Well, they were written by old comedy writers, but what I didn't understand about it, I mean, look, we're all generally similar ages, and we remember who made us laugh and who didn't, and I couldn't understand. Look, with all due respect, and I know that Bob Hope's regarded as like one of the greatest comics of all times, he made me laugh in those Bing Crosby movies you know yeah sure

the road movies but his monologues didn't make me laugh I used to sit there and go why are people laughing it was to me it wasn't funny to me it was you know it made my parents laugh okay and here Lauren came along and he's you know the host the host of the first show is George Carlin

who made me laugh yeah okay I went to see the National Lampoon show and my god I saw a Belushi I saw Bill Murray, I saw these people, I'm going, Lemmings, okay, I'm going, these are people who talk our language. So it made perfect sense that the time was right for this. Now, this brings me to another thing. A famous incident on Saturday Night Live was a comedy legend,

one of the biggest comedy legends of all time. I think I know it's coming. Okay, go ahead. Milton Burl. Well, this was, this was amazing because on paper, on paper there was some beautiful symmetry

to this because he was the king of his generation we were that to our generation it was NBC and NBC I don't know

if it was the same studio you would have to check that out but it was a bit of you know it was homage

to the guy who helped pave the way and when he came to do the show it was incredibly

disappointing to everyone It was incredibly disappointing because he represented or he comported himself in a way which was antithetical to the premise of the show. The premise of the show is basically whatever it was and you know, you play the moment and you feed off of each other. And he was too joke oriented. He was not so much about the improv. Okay, it was a different school altogether. remember, for example, when he was rehearsing his opening monologue, all right, Dave Wilson was the

director, and he was in the booth, and they were just rehearsing his opening monologue. I was in the studio, so I heard him do this. He said, Dave, when I get to this line about the water bottle, okay, I'd love to have a sound effect of like a crowbar. falling on the studio floor and let it sort of reverberate for a couple of seconds before it comes to arrest because when it does, I am going to add lib.

It looks like NBC dropped another one. Listen to that sentence. I am going to add lib. This isn't what we did. Okay? And there was another moment in the same monologue. If I remember correctly, he said to Dave Wilson, when I get to this spot in the monologue, cut me off, don't go any lower than, let's say, my navel, okay?

He says, because what he did was because below the frame of the TV, he made motions with his two hands. He says, I will do this motion with my hands when I tell them that I just turned 70. That's what it was. I'll do that motion with my hand, and they will give me a standing ovation. Because he knew from playing clubs and concerts or whatever that he can induce a standing ovation if he did that. And that's what they did. That's what happened. It was unbearable.

It was absolutely the opposite. And how disillusioning for you guys and Lauren who regarded him as a hero, as a comedy hero. Absolutely. This was a forerunner. This was somebody that, you know, you build things on the shoulders of giants and who was bigger than Milton Burrell in his day. you know, it was very, very disillusioning. And if I'm not mistaken,

it's one of the few shows that was never repeated. Yeah, I think I only saw it once, and it's probably not in the box set. You know something? I don't have a box set. They never sent me a box set. Those bastards!

They didn't send me a box set. And they say, I think they had written a bit between him and Gilderadner as father and daughter. Wow, see, I don't even remember this. Wow. And they said,

it was going to be like kind of a nice piece. Yeah. But he just started doing shtick during all. See, that was the thing. He couldn't play character. This was the guy, if we go back in the annals of early television, he used to wear dresses and have the lipstick on, and then they strut around.

And that was comedy back then. And it was huge comedy. People used to pull off the side of the, they went home. What was it on Tuesday nights or something like that? I think so, yeah. That was the night to go to watch this. but he couldn't keep a straight face. He couldn't feed you.

Generosity wasn't a big trade. No. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Who were some of the other guest hosts that were nightmares? I think that they're a list of them on the internet. Yeah. People who have been banned from the show. Okay.

Okay. See, I don't know who was banned or not. I left the show in 80, so the band list came afterwards. I know that there were people who weren't used to to Louise Lasseh was difficult. I don't think she was used to the form. You know what it was? It was people who, I can't remember, I don't think Raquel Welch was a day at the beach. I want to ask you about the Groton episode, because I always thought that was a put-on. But that's considered that Charles Grotin angered the... cast because he because but well you know that's not my recollection of it because I wrote I can't remember if there was a samurai I used to write yeah sure samurai I can't remember if there I do remember that it was a thing where Chuck would stop the sketch or yeah he wanted to sing a song okay okay

But, I mean, to my knowledge, to my recollection, I don't remember people getting pissed off at that. Because we wrote a lot of those things. And he was a great guy. He was such a put-on artist, too. And he was, and he was so tongue-in-cheek. He, to this day, he's a real funny guy. So I don't remember him anything, but I don't have anything but good memories of Chuck. And I remember reading a story that with Louise Lasser, she was so out of it, that they were planning.

on doing all of her bits with Chevy Chase wearing a Mary Hartman wing. Wow, I missed that meeting. And I remember, actually, because you mentioned her, when I was on Saturday Night Live,

there was a Q-card guy there who was an old guy. Al Siegel? Yes. Yes. Yes. Wow. And he kept on grief. He gave him too many changes between dress and there. He says, I already had one heart attack. I don't want another. And he was one of these guys who had been in the business, like, you know, since, like, early Greek dramas.

Yeah, he held up cute cards for, like, you know, Aristophani. Yes, exactly. And so I was talking to him, and he was a very nice old guy. And I said, so, you've worked with everybody. And he goes, yeah, yeah. And I said, who were the real, who were the worst to work with? And he goes, I don't know, you find most big stars are surprisingly very nice, considerate people, very kind people. And I said, but if you had a name a total bastard, and he immediately goes, if you had to.

Yeah, if you had a name a total bastard, he goes, Raquel Welch. Well, yeah, I just made. Yeah, and like I said, I can't, I don't, oh, I do remember, wait a second. It's coming back. It's, well, whoa, whoa, I just had this flash. I can't remember. I'm going to get some of this wrong, but this was the essence of it. I can't remember if she had a manager with her or she came by herself.

But either she or this manager said, we want to show off her mind. And they kept on saying, oh, she's got a IQ of 176. and then you come the next day it was up to 183. By the time she did the show, it was boiling, okay? It was like 220.

Her IQ kept on going up. And that's what people are interested in watching Raquel Welch. We could have, we might as well have Madam Curie. You don't go that way before. Okay, what are we talking about? But she or her spokesman,

I can't remember who it was. So we want to show off, you know, her intelligence and her comedic, you know, potential, we don't, we want to get away from the tits and ass part of it, okay? She came in with a list of sketches to propose. Each one was big tits, big ass. Right, right.

So it was, wait a second, we just had that other meeting, you know what I mean? So, but I couldn't tell you what was in that, God, it was so many years ago. But it was, there was nothing memorable about it other than, you know, sometimes, you know, and you've done so much that you tend to remember the, you. tend to remember the experience and not the product. You know, I've done things that were not successful, but in my

mind, I remember making that movie or that show. Who was my friend? Who did I bond with? And it was a good time. That's what I remember. And it's almost like as a you know, as an afterthought, it's a footnote going,

oh shit, Roger Ebert reviewed. I did a movie called North. Yes. Sure. And Roger Ebert had a book out called, the title of it was, I hated, hated, hated, hated this movie. He was quoting the review he gave of my movie, okay?

Did you carry that review around? You know, I don't have my wallet on me. It's downstairs. Oh, God, you've got to get it. Can somebody, can we get... Yes. Yes, no, no. You know, something, it may even be in my other bag.

So I tell you what, it's a better thing. but it's a better thing to do. Go on to your computer. Roger Ebert, North Review, the review of North. Okay? And if you can't print it out,

let's bring over the laptop. Because I do this in my, when I, my speaking engagements, I read it on the Letterman show once. I took out my wallet, and I read it. But to me,

you know, I guess we'll get to review when Derek gets it. The experience was this wonderful experience. Are these readers, or those are prescriptions? Oh, these are, yeah. Okay.

Bring in the laptop over. Okay, here is, I won't read the whole review. I will read, where is this? Okay. Now, let me set this up for you. Come with me to hell, will you? Okay, this is what happened. I left SNL, I started writing plays, I wanted to stay in New York.

This was before it's Gary Shandling Show, which brought me to L.A. I wrote a book called, North. Now, our son, Adam, was a young boy. He was about six years old, and he was at that age where Robert and I would be at the dinner table and he would look across the table at us. And he knew from the expression on his face, the kid was thinking, I could do better than these two people. So I wrote a book about a boy. I called him North. And he felt unappreciated by his parents. So he declared himself a free agent and went around the world offering his services as a devoted son to the highest bidding set of parents. I wrote the book and sent the galleys to

Rob Reiner, who had hosted the third Saturday Night Live and we were friends. And to this day, we're still very close friends. And he said, you know, I'm becoming, he loved the book. And he had done when Harry Met Sally. He had done a spinal tap, the short thing. And he had just done a few good men. He said, let's make a movie out of this. Okay? Well, this is a writer's dream. You write a book, you hide to write the screenplay, and a $50 million movie is made. Julia Louis Dreyfus, Jason Alexander, Bruce Willis, Elijah Wood. Alan Arkin. Alan Arkin, Dan, Ann Arroyd. Who's that? Kathy Bates? Kathy Bates. Kathy Bates. Everybody's in it. Reba McIntyre. Abe Vagoda.

Okay. Abe Vagoda. Yes. Yes, Avagoda. And there's a big premiere in Hollywood, right? And I fly my parents out from Florida. Did we say Bruce Willis? We said Bruce Willis. And my parents are there, and it's the biggest night of my life.

Oh, and there was an eight-year-old girl, her first acting job. Her name was Scarlett Johansson. She was in the mall. So this is the biggest night of my life. This is great. Next morning, the reviews come out, okay? And I don't know what your experience has been, but bad reviews are usually told to you by your family,

not by friends. So my father would call and go, don't read Time Magazine. Page 67, column three. So I wake up the next morning, and Roger Ebert, who's the big guy, who was Siskel and Ebert, right? Roger Ebert writes,

I hated this movie. Hated, hated, hated. hated, hated, hated, hated this movie. Hated it. Hated every simpering, stupid, vacant, audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would actually be entertained by it.

Now, on the surface, this may seem like an unfavorable review, but read it again, I think... There's subtlety between the words. I think he sort of liked it. And we were living in L.A. at the time where everybody routes for everybody else to fail, you know. And my kids would come home from school.

My son, Adam, would go, Dad, can we change a last name to Sorkin? Wasn't there a playground story? There was a playground story. My son, Adam, it was shortly after this movie came. Adam was born in 81, movie came out in 94. So he was 12, 13 years old, okay? He went to a school called Crossroads,

which is a private school there. And he had a fight on the playground, not a fist fight, but a back and forth verbal thing with Mike Ovitz's son. Okay, Chris Ovitz. Okay, so two 12-year-old kids, you're fat, I'm not fat,

you're this, you're a bad athlete, this and that. And then Chris Ovid says, well, your father did North. So 12-year-old kids fighting about box office receipts. That's cutting. Yeah. So I said to Adam, I said, when he told this is at the dinner table that night, I'm going, what did you say back? He said, well, I said, well, at least people like my father.

And I said, oh, good, we're raising him, we're raising him well. So it was, it was, you know, and that was just a nightmare. But now I carry it with my wallet, and it's, you know, look, if I was the kind of person who was still sort of crippled by that, there would be something incredibly wrong. So we'll get to a couple of more of the movies and Gary Shandling's show, but just take us back for a second. S&L ends after a wonderful five-year run. I left in, yeah, after the 1979-80 season,

in May of 80. Right before Gilbert came in the door. You guys got us. You came in with Gene? Yes, yes. It was the worst time to join Saturday Night Live. Well, yeah, I felt badly for all of you only because it was in the shadow of this.

Yeah. Yeah, I understood. Now, the cast changes like in the middle of a bit. What you say at the time, it felt like, you know, you felt like, yeah, if in the middle of Beatlemania, you said, John Paul, George, and Ringo are gone, but there's these four other guys,

call them the Beatles, and like them just as much. That's a great way to put it. Who else was in your cast? Well, the only two you'd know, Joe Piscopo and Eddie Murphy. Okay, I remember. Denny Dylan. Oh, very good. And Gal Matthias.

Gail Matthias. Excellent. Christine Ebersole. No, she came later on. She did. Chris, a rocket? What was his name? Charlie Rockett. Charlie Rockett. And, uh, and, yeah. And Rizzley. Yeah. And Risley. Wow. For your trivia buffs out there. Go. Yeah. I was. Was Tim Kanzarinsky in that?

No, he came later on. He came with Ebersol. So what happens now? After five years, you've been on the biggest. You've been on the biggest thing on television. It was a shock to the system. I wanted to stay in New York. I wanted to be a New York writer. I was now married. We had our first child, and we're living on the Upper West Side, and I started

writing plays, and I wrote that book North. And I had been to the top, and I turned down tons of work. A lot of doors were opened, but I didn't want to do another variety show, because what could possibly be... Did you work on the new show a little bit for more? That came much later.

Okay. Well, much later. In 1984. When the new show came, I worked on that show. And that was basically, you know, it was a reunion. You're Franken and Davis. Sure. I was a fan of that show. I was sorry to see it go. I think it lasted 10, 12, 13 shows or something like that.

And I wasn't, while I wasn't really struggling, I wasn't thriving either. I started writing other things that I wanted to do magazine pieces and this and that. But then I got a phone call. 86 from my manager, a man named Bernie Brillstein was my manager for 30 years, and he asked me if I knew who Gary Shandling was. And I said, yeah, I've seen him on TV, and he says, well, he was doing a special for Showtime, and they needed a fresh set of eyes to help, like, be the script consultant. So they sent me the script, and they flew me out to L.A., and now I go straight from the airport to whatever a restaurant to meet with Gary.

And we spoke about the script, and we spoke about that special that I would be helping out on. And now I go back to my hotel room, and I'm dead to the world because I'm on New York time. I check in, I'm in bed. It's now 1 o'clock in the morning, which is 4 o'clock in the morning for my body, right? The phone rings in my hotel, and I'm dead to the world. I go, hello?

Alan, it's Gary. I go, oh, hey man, what's doing? Alan, my dog's penis tastes bitter. You think it's his diet or what? I call my wife Robert. I said, I think I found a writing partner. So for me, having written all those years in SNL, wrote with everybody, but Gilda and I wrote probably we were the team.

I teamed up with her more than I did. I also wrote with Herb Sargent and Ackwood, but Gilda and I were a bit of a team. Lightning struck twice because he was somebody else who thought, the same way that I did, and Shandling and I started its Gary Shandling show, and that lasted four years. Gilbert and I want to talk about the Shandling show, but just before we get off,

Haskinnell, Christopher Lee is a favorite of ours. Did you write the Mr. Death sketch? Oh, God, yes, I did. It was originally Guiltern, then became the rain. There was a controversy over that, and I know that it's a wonderful piece. I know that it

it was a weird thing. I had an idea because Christopher Lee played all these, you know, Macawran. Of course. We're just trying to get him for the show. He's in his 90s. Oh, he's really?

Yeah. All the English Hammer films. He was great. He was great. He was giant. And so I had this idea where death comes back to apologize to a young girl for taking her dog. Okay? That's all I knew about it.

And I pitched it. And we actually did it, I think, in dress rehearsal the previous week. I can't remember who the host was. It might have been a member of the cast who played Mr. Death. It was cut between dress and air, and I remember that Dave Wilson, the director, said, why don't we do that sketch next week when Christopher Lee? Because he would be perfect to play Mr. Death.

So it was held over to the next week. I can't remember exactly what happened. I probably wrote it for Gilda. I wrote it with Herb Sargent. I think Gilda might have contributed to the writing of it. Lorraine Newman had no idea that Gilda was a part of it. Lorraine was an innocent here in this thing. She wanted to play the role.

She ultimately got the role in it. I don't know what happened for that to happen, but I do know that there was some hard feelings over it, But Lorraine did an amazing job. Lorraine, in my estimation, God, is she makes me laugh as much as anybody on the planet. I think she's, to this day, really funny. And I'm looking forward to seeing her at the 40th reunion show. I worked with her in Problem Child, too.

Oh, I didn't know that. Now, see, and I'm glad you said that because I've heard stories where it makes Lorraine Newman look like a bitch. No, if anything, Lorraine was a real lady about it, and she felt awful. She had no idea that Gilda was A, going to do it, and B, was involved in the writing of it. She had no idea. She might have been light in the show that week, and so, Lorraine, you played. No, she was a total innocent, and she felt awful when everything came out. I remember singing and thinking it was such a tonal shift for the show.

It was like a little mini one-act play. And I had seen every episode to that point. It was different. What I remember from that bit, the one line that I remember is the little girl says to death, did you kill our Lord? And he goes, no, that was the Romans. That was the Romans. I remember God, so many years ago.

Yeah, because my mother used to say to me, because I used to have friends who weren't Jewish. When we were little, we were five and six. and when they would go to catechism, let's say, or parochial school, they'd come back, you know, after one day saying, I can't play with you anymore, you killed our Lord. Jesus, what a day at school that was. So I would tell my parents, you know, Joey won't play with me anymore.

And she would say, no, no, we didn't kill him. The Romans did. So I put that in that sketch. Now, also, I got to get to the other part of Saturday Night Live that it was so famous, like, about, like, the drugs going on. You know, if there were, I didn't see it because I was so high myself, I couldn't see what anybody else was doing. You know, look, it was the 70s, and, you know, I can't point fingers or anything like that.

I have to start with myself. Let's put it this way. I don't know how I'm alive to this day. Given today's standards, you know, and what we know to be incredible. horrible for you and your body, there's no reason for me to be sitting over here. But I would have come back from the dead to be on this podcast. Pulled that out of my ass, didn't I mean? Well, I want to just tell our 12 listeners, if you can find that Christopher Lee sketch,

and it's in the box set. It's absolutely worth watching. It's just... It's in the slot that Miltonboro would have been in, but yeah. So back to Shandling. Now, after a couple of years, you find yourself a new partner? I found a new partner in Gary, and he made me laugh. lot. He was, you know, he was the single version of me. I had gone out to L.A. to do his special.

He told me about this idea he had for a show where he spoke to camera and he played himself and he was a single guy. Coincidentally, I had had an idea that I was going to pitch to NBC about a married guy who was, well, I wanted to do my version of Dick Fanzi. A comedy writer, your character, wasn't he? It was a Dick Flander. My Dick Van Dyke show I wanted to do. So we married the two ideas together. And this was Showtime. You know, this was 86.

There was no really original comedy programming on cable. There had been a show on HBO. What was the name of it? It had the word on, and it was two words. And the second word was on. Dream on? Dream on. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. But Showtime, I don't believe, had any original, comedy programming and we came along and they left us alone. They totally left us alone and it snuck in there, you know. And but, you know, a lot of people didn't get Showtime in those days. And so I remember what I would do is I would, I would make cassettes and mail them to the world, the postal bills with the same post offices that don't exist thrive from me and send out these things. Look at the show I'm doing because nobody saw it.

think after the third season, the Fox network came into existence. And what they did was they gave, we gave Showtime an exclusive window for 30 days to show it's Gary Shandling show. And as of day 31, Fox was able to show it. I remember editing it for commercials and taking out some of the stuff that wasn't, you know, allowable. And it was on for an hour. They coupled it with Tracy Olman. on Sunday nights. So that's how it got a little bit more exposure. Not that Fox had a big universe back then either, but it was a few more people saw it.

Such a smart show. And it was a show that rewarded people of our generation that grew up on traditional sitcoms by turning it on its head. Well, that's absolutely right. And I must say that Gary, for me, once again, it was, to my mind, to the sitcom, what SNL was to the variety show,

what Letterman was to the talk show, whenever, you know, we had a thing on S&L, and Gary and I did this on it's Gary Shandling show, when SNL would be, okay, Carol Burnett would do it this way, how are we going to do it? So with Gary and I would be Happy Days or whatever the current, and even the good, the really, really good sitcoms,

which, you know, Happy Days was on and Mary Tyler Moore, and these were good shows, but they would do it this way. We went a little bit more theatrical with it, you know, So it worked. Now, one thing that audiences then thought was new, but really wasn't new, was the breaking the fourth world. Oh, my God, you know, it was, look, we paid homage to George Burns,

whose room we're in right now. Yes, yes. I think he's buried in this room. Yeah, because Burns, in the middle of a bit, would come out stand in front of the TV, watch the TV and go, looks like Gracie. The first time.

You know what he did? Now, I'm going to get the players wrong. Okay. There was Harry Von Zelle and there was another Harry Morton. Oh, yes. One way or he was the other. Okay. I think Von Zelle was first and was replaced by Harry Morton

or it could have been the other way. But let's say it was that. Well, it was Fred Clark. Okay, was it Fred Clark who I'm thinking of? Yes. This is what I'm doing. Okay. correct me then maybe was Fred Clark

what Burns did was in a middle of a bit where whoever we're talking about was married okay he said I just want to tell you all that this guy whoever it was is leaving the show he's done well we wish him well and he will be replaced

by and he brought out the replacement and he says we've replaced by him Fred Clark Harry Von Zelle whoever was and he will and whoever the wife was like was B. Benadarida or somebody like that you two are now husband and wife. Okay, continue with the scene. He made a cast change in the middle of the bit, and they just did it, effortless. Which is so hip when you think about it. Think about it. In the middle

of a scene replacing him, introducing, okay, now you're a husband and wife now play nicely. And B. Benadarck, she was the, she was like the tricksy character, Robles, Bonnie Rubble's right. Yeah, she was Betty Rubble. Yeah. That's how, as a kid. She was also a Petty Co. Junction. That's right. Oh, yes. That's right. God. I think that was, is that the first example of a show, certainly of a sitcom,

breaking the fourth wall like that, where a character steps out of character? I don't know how far Jack Benny went. I know he was in front of the curtain. But Benny, there was a different show with a different... Well, Benny pretended he was on stage talking to an audience. That's exactly right. Who I don't think was ever there.

We were talking about Groucho breaking the fourth wall in horse feathers, just stops the sun. scene and walks out to the can and addresses the camera. Absolutely. And it goes back to the scene. So it wasn't that Burns had invented it, but I might have seen it for the first time

on television with Burns. Sure. But, you know, I was of the generation where I first knew about Groucho Marx from You Bet Your Life and then learned that they were Marks Brothers movies. So the TV show came first. Yeah, that's how it happened with me too.

The same order, right? And then when I saw Doc Soup and Horse Feathers, I just went nuts. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, unbelievable. Well, Duck Soup is the one that killed that killed them at Paramount.

That was the biggest loser. And now you look at it and it's ingenious. That's their best film. Yeah. Yeah, lost them their contract. There's a book that we might have wanted to look up the exact title to, it's written by Roy Blunt Jr. It's called, remember in Duck Soup was Hail, Hail Fredonia. Sure. Yes. This name of this book is Hale. hail something else. We'll find out in a second.

Our research, our crack research, Darry Godfrey. If you read this book, it's about the making of duck soup. Really? Not only how certain lines were, and the script changes and this and that, but it's against a backdrop of World War II have starting. Here you go. Research has arrived.

Hail hail euphoria. And if I recommend this book to any Marx Brothers, Thanks, Darren. Thank you, Darry. To any Marx Brothers fan, because it puts it into a global context of what was happening in Europe with the World War II was going to happen soon

and all of that. Now, when they ask Groucholated, did you know, did you purposely make some sort of satirical comment about what was happening? So we were just trying to be funny, but if you do look at what it was in the midst of... It's pretty subversive.

It's very subversive. I don't say how they couldn't have known. There was nothing. like it before. Maybe the great dictator. Well, that was later. So there was nothing like it. It was incredible. Yeah. Yeah, and it's really pretty fascinating. You know?

And it was the, like, one of the earliest political satires in films. That's what I mean. Yeah. They went to war because he called him an upstart. Oh, yes. Yes. It's a studio, yeah,

basically talking about how stupid war is. And it was so surreal that, like, their costumes change in between scenes. He'll have a civil war outfit on. Yeah. You know, and Margaret Dumont killed me in all those movies. And I had heard somewhere that she had no idea what the joke was.

Yeah, they said that's what made it so funny. That she really didn't know. No clue. So the Shandling shows a big success. And what happened then? I mean, you're writing movies too while this is going on? I co-wrote Dragnet with... Anacroyd, and that did well.

So you branching out into other media? I'm branching out to the other. And I started having plays produced here in New York. At the Ensemble Studio Theater, they have a marathon every year, so I started doing that. I hear you say you missed the immediacy of SNL that you wrote the thing that day and there was the laugh. Well, right now I write Broadway shows. I write movies and I write books. And if I'm lucky, it sees the light of day two years from now.

Right. Here, they write the show on Tuesday. It's on television Saturday. I remember, you know, there's a dress rehearsal. For us with 7.30, I think it might be 8 o'clock. Now it doesn't matter with a full audience. And you do the whole show. Everybody's in wardrobe and the band plays.

It's a show. And then between dress and air, it's determined what's going to stay in the show, what's going to be cut. And whatever's going to stay, you try to punch up and you bring, you know, make it as good as possible. and bring it to Q-Cards, Al, the Q-Card guy. The late Al. And I remember that I would go upstairs

if I got my changes into Q-Cards early enough. Then it wasn't 24-hour news. It was the 11 o'clock news. I'd go upstairs, watch the 11 o'clock news. And if something struck me as funny, I'd write a joke, and it would be on television a half hour later. When I was with SNL, there were two shows where while they were on the air,

air live doing weekend update, I was under the desk writing jokes and handing it up to them. One time in particular is we did a live show from the Mardi Gras in New Orleans, and we had all of these jokes about the floats and the de blooms and the thing that was going to pass the reviewing stand where Jane Curtin and Buck Henry were reviewing the parade. Something happened at the start of the parade that couldn't be predicted. There was an accident and somebody died, okay? So now we have all these jokes about this float that never came, okay? I'm under the desk writing jokes about this parade that didn't exist.

And finally, I remember the last joke I wrote was that Mardi Gras is French for no parade. That's funny. That's funny. I was under the desk handing it up. That's funny. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor. At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs.

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So you were doing at this point a little bit of everything. A little bit of everything. When the Shandling show ended, I had a choice to make, and this was a big mistake. It was a huge mistake. I was being offered all sorts of, these was the days of the big studio

deals. And Castle Rock, which was my friend Rob Rainer's company, offered me a three-year deal with them to create TV shows for them. And I was hot off of Shandling. My manager, Bernie Brillstein, CBS was in dead last

in those years and they signed boy oh boy God help me Farrah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neill Oh good sports and they okay and I got talked in

I allowed myself to get talked into doing it and it was the only move I think I've ever made for the wrong reason and I used to wake up in the middle of the night my wife Robben would say to me what's the matter and she said you don't want

to do this show but I talked myself into doing it would be a big exposure maybe this would be the road to be coming oh I had also turned down previous to that they asked me to be one of the producers on Cosby I turned it down and one of the producers on Roseanne and turned it down so I'm going

I gotta do something so I chose this and it was the wrong move we had a cast that had about three or four Tony awards among them the writers room had oh God 17, 18 Emmy Awards among

everyone, but the show just didn't work. For people that don't remember it, it was sort of it was about two people running an ESPN type of sports show. It was way before Sport Night, it was a ESPN kind of thing. This sort of screwball comedy approach. Well, this was just, it was

you know, it was one of those situations that it just didn't work. It didn't work maybe because the chemistry between the two of them and they were living with each other. Okay. You know, and but then when that ended, when that went belly up,

I did sign with Rob Ryan, it kept his doors open for me, so I went there and did a couple of movies, did a number of pilots. He did the story of us. He did the story of us with Bruce Willis and Michelle Pfeiffer. Did a few pilots with Rob. Did a special with Tom Hanks and other people at NBC. At ABC.

And ultimately, there was a dip. There was a dip because nothing was getting traction. And I, what you would call it, then my boyfriend, Larry David came along with Curb Your Enthusiasm. And I was a consulting producer on that for a couple of years. So they breathed life into my exposure anyway. And I was even on a show, you know, the last season of it. And then when Billy Crystal asked me to co-write a. 700 Sundays with him. And I jumped all over that. And that's what basically brought me back to New York.

We came here for rehearsals and previews and whatever. And I remember checking into what was then called the Riga Royal Hotel. It's now the London Hotel, where it says how many nights your stay will be. And it said 50. So I was here a long time. And our kids were getting older and they were starting to tip in this direction as they were leaving in the house. So we came home. And it was a good move. it proved to be okay. I've been writing books, and I have... And tell us about the other Schulman. Well, the other Schulman was a novel that I wrote,

which won the Thurber Prize. You had mentioned it in your lovely intro of American humor. It was... Because I love the premise of the book. Well, it was an autobiographical novel about a guy who was having trouble in his career. Okay, he wasn't a comedy writer. He owned a stationary store.

and he was having a rocky time in his marriage and his home. So what he basically did, he did what I did. When things weren't clicking for me, I saw a sign that said, you two can complete a marathon. And this sign was in a Ben and Jerry's. And I went home, I told Rob,

and I told about this sign, and she said, you should do that. I could do what? You should run a marathon. I said, I'm a Jew. At best, I run for it. for a bus at best. And she said, no, she says,

you're feeling sorry for yourself. This is after that horrible North review and all that. And some TV shows got canceled. And she said, you've got to refresh your head. You need a goal to achieve. You got to get out of the house. Got to get off the couch. So I joined the running group.

And I entered and I ran the New York City Marathon. Let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, I just correct myself here a little bit. When I say I ran the marathon, let's talk about the word ran. You know the New York City Marathon. You start in Staten Island, go over the Verrazano Bridge. Now you're in Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, the Bronx, Manhattan again, into Central Park West. To have it on the green, 26.2 miles later, you run a marathon. I line up with 33,000 other people. On your mark, it's set, go. I leave Staten Island. I go over the Verrazont. I go over the Verrazont. Bridge. Now I'm in Brooklyn

about four miles into the race. When word comes back that the winner had not only crossed the finish line, but was already on a plane back to Kenya. But it was a nice day, so I went

but moving back here did prove to be a wonderful thing because that book won an award. That book is about a guy running the marathon and what his life is like today and a lot of flashbacks. And it's very clever because each chapter is another mile. So there's 26.2 chapters in the book.

A children's picture book called Our Tree named Steve. I wrote a novel with Dave Barry called Lunatics, which they're threatening to make a movie out of. And I've got a couple more books coming up. And I was asked to write the book for a Broadway musical version of Feel the Dreams. So hopefully that will happen, but I was asked if I'd like to do it. And you never saw a Jew raise his hand fast as an idea. It's a wonderful movie and a wonderful book. And speaking of Larry David, did I hear this correctly or find this in my research?

You inspired the famous Pez Seinfeld episode? Larry and I went to when we were hanging out in New York, okay, we would do stuff on a Sunday afternoon. and we went on the Upper West Side in one of those like churches or something there, there was a Sunday afternoon concert given by a pianist named Claude Frank. And Larry and I were sitting in the first row. And on the ground, on the floor in front of one of us,

was a Pez dispenser. And for some reason we got the giggles because of the Pez dispenser. And years later, He used it. He used it. To his credit. Larry is a genius that can take the smallest little thing that we all pass over and don't even think about,

and he'll make a whole meal out of it. It's something that, you know, I just marvel at. Stuff that we just sort of glide by, you know, he'll stop and he'll make something out of it. Like Pes Dispensis. Yeah. It turned out to be an iconic television moment. Who was some of the other people back at the improv? Back when you guys met.

Yeah. Okay. Glenn Super. Yeah. Oh, the bullhorn. Oh, my God. Yes, yes, yes. Ed Bluestone, who had the greatest one-line. Funny guy.

Oh, yeah. He had great one-line jokes. There's a lot of ways you could be offensive at someone's funeral. Shake the widow's hand with an electric buzzer. He used to talk about Jewish. hunting. You shoot the animals while they're still in the cage.

And he said, and sometimes they make it really daring. They leave his feet untied. So he was there. Wayne Klein was there. Jay Leno was there. Oh, yes. I worked with Wayne Klein.

He was a Leno writer. Yeah, good guy. Andy Kaufman would come in. Andy Kaufman would come in. Wait a second. Robert Klein would come in every so often. Brenner. Danger field all the time.

Dangerfield. We're talking about the catch now in the 70s? Well, catch. Or the old catch? The catch from the 70s. Was it talking about 74, 75? Well, catch. Had a different, some performers only performed in one place and some performed in both places.

When I was working at catch, like in the very beginning, Gabe Kaplan would still be there. Was this before Welcome Back Carter? Yes. He used to do it as a bit, the Welcome Back Carter. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he used to talk about there was this group and there was Horshack. Oh, the Swethogs?

Yeah. Oh, wow. See, I didn't even know that. And then, yeah, it was just like another bit he had. There was, I saw him a couple of years ago. I wasn't playing, I don't play poker, but I was over somebody's house and there was a poker game. I think he's like a game player, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a championship poker player.

But back then there was a woman named Emily Levine. Oh, yeah. There was Billy, but Billy Crystal was most, I don't think Catch as much as, I think it was Catch more so than the improv. He was there. Same with Brenna, I think.

I remember him mostly from a Catcher Rising Star. Oh, there was a guy, Lenny Schultz. Oh, Lenny Schultz. She's still around. Is he really? Well, I don't know if he works. He's alive.

He's alive. Lenny Schultz. Yeah. I remember him in a chicken suit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he did. He would just go nuts on stage. He would come in with a chaise lounge,

and he would open and close it, and he would have like an accordion. A prop comic. Oh, Larry Raglan. Larry Raglan. Oh, God. When Bob Saggett was on this show, he asked me to sing the famous Larry Raglan song,

Dummy in the Window. Oh, God, Dummy in the Window. That's right. Someone else remembers dummy in the window Wait a second, not only dummy in the window You remember Carl Waxman? Yes. Okay, who had a reputation at the time

For appropriating other people's material And I think Billy Crystal I thought it was Richard Lewis Oh, okay Which said about Carl? Carl drove by after work one day And Richard Lewis said That's a stolen car

I think it was Billy Crystal who was there and Carl Waxman was on stage and afterwards Billy Crystal went over to him and said you know that bit you do about the supermarket Robert Klein's been doing that for six years and Carl Waxman goes oh yeah well I've been doing it for four

It's hilarious. It squatters rights in a way. So he's not only a joke thief, but but he's bad at mess. He's bad at mess. Thinking that four was bigger than six. There was a couple. Oh, the, what was the name of the? The Untouchables was a group of Untouchables.

Yes, yes. Marvin Braverman. Buddy Mantle. Bobby Alto. Yes. They used to. Yeah, but he sat in on one of our podcasts.

And then, then it, when Marvin Braffman moved to L.A. to try to pursue a career there, then it was just Alto and Mantea. Oh,

there's no longer the untouchable. Yes. I didn't, I didn't know that they went through that. Was Dennis Wolfberg around then? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.

Funny guy. Wow. Yeah. No, this is, Ronnie shakes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, he was funny. He died, right? He died like 40 or something. Yeah, and Dennis too. Dennis died young.

But Ronnie Shakes had a line that made me crazy that I loved. He said that he had been going to the same shrink for like eight years. And he said, in this afternoon, I saw him. And he said three words to me. After eight years that brought tears to my eyes. No, Ablo, English. let's because we all do this for a living but there are certain jokes and certain things you go wow, okay? That was when I was with SNL,

when we used to have read through, I used to just sit back and there'll be other people who write sketches. I go, shit, I should have written that. Oh, I could have done this. But when Dan Aykroyd read anything that he wrote,

if I live to be a thousand, there's no way I can write basimatic. Right. Take a fish, put it in a blender, and then drink it. You know, sat back and enjoyed the ride. I was always fond of the joke about what Professor Backwards was murdered, the joke that was on up page. Was that your joke? No, it was Michael O'Donnie who wrote that

joke. Professor Backwood's died. He was murdered, and it seems like, because nobody responded to his cries of plape. That was Michael O'Donnier. I mean, Michael O'Donniu was his genius when he would write something. I just sat back and, you know, with O'Donniu, I did a couple of speaking engagements at colleges with him. And we did two on the same trip, like the University of Akron, and we did it.

I did 40 minutes, and then he came on and did 40 minutes. And now we're driving from Akron to some place in Indiana, and I can't remember the exact school, okay? And he says, what if we do something together at this next place? I said, okay, like what?

Now, Franken had been very, very successful. He was writing point-counterpoint as a bit for Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin. So he says, what if we do a point-counterpoint? And I said, okay, fine. So I said, what should the subject be? So he said to me, why don't you do the anti-Semitism point? And I'll do the pro-antisemitism counterpoint. I had no idea what, I said, okay, fine.

So before the performance, I went to my room, and I wrote the anti-antisemitism point, having no idea what he was going to write, okay? We're in the middle of God's country in a field house. So I did 40 minutes. Michael did 40 minutes, and then he says, and now I'm going to bring Alan back, and he and I are going to do point, counterpoint. He says, here with the anti-anti-Semitism. point is Alan.

And I had written something. It wasn't very funny. I didn't know how to make this funny. Maybe there was a titter or two in it, and it was quick. And now he does the pro-antisemitism. And he starts off saying, Alan, you overweight heeb, fuck. He continues to whatever he says,

said, call me every Jewish slur that my people have been trying to get rid of for centuries. He was brilliant. He was brilliant. There's one other story about him, which is probably better than this one. I was producing the weekend update segment of the show, the third or fourths. Michael was only there a couple of years, so whenever he was there. And he called me, he said, what if weekend up? update is brought to you by a product that we make up.

I said, okay, fine, go for it. So this particular week, he had Don Pardo say, and now weekend update brought to you by Pussy Whip. Oh, yes. The dessert topping for cash. Sure, remember it well. And it worked really great. So there was this censor on the show, Jane Crowley.

I don't know if she was there when you were there. No, no. I had one named Clotworthy. Oh, Bill Clotworthy. Yeah. Good guy. She was on the show. and the following week I wanted to do a sponsor for Weekend Update.

So for the dress rehearsal, I had Pardo say, and now Weekend Update brought to you by Blue Balls. Blue Balls, B-L-E-U, Blue Balls, the cheese snack from France, okay? It works great during the dress rehearsal. Jane Crowley comes out of the control room, and she finds me, She says, you can't say that when we go on the air. You can't say why? He says, you can't say blue balls.

I go, why? And she says, because it has to do with the male genitalia. I said, well, last week, you let us say pussy whip, which is clearly the female genitalia. But now this week, what kind of sexist organization are you running here? And she said, give me a minute. And she goes to the control room, picks up a phone, calls. God, I guess. She comes back 10, 15 minutes later, she finds me,

and she says, Alan, gave a lot of thought. And I've come to the conclusion that because I gave you pussy whip last week, I'll be more than happy to give you blue balls this week. That's great. And I just said, that's not necessary. Just let us say it on TV. We'll call it even.

That's great. I just remembered a censor joke. And having to do it my trays, by the way. I did one joke with the trays saying, you know, Dolly Pardon holding them against my chest. Right. And then I held it against my crotch saying Dolly Pardon's brother. So they said this girl goes, okay, this is this woman there with the headset on the Janet Jackson headset that they all wear. She goes, all right, I have to check it with the, with the.

studio. Okay, and she explains the joke to them. And very seriously, she turns to me and says, keep the tits, drop the balls. There's a note. There's a good note to get. Oh, and before I forget, because we were talking about Ronnie Shakes, maybe we'll put it back in there. My favorite Ronnie Shakes joke was one that he said, my biggest fantasy in life is to have sex with two women, not in a nighttime and in a whole life. Oh, Jesus Christ.

You guys got to, you have to get to dinner. Oh, yes. We should wrap this up. Okay. Real quick, before we go, can we get you to tell the boxer story? Which is such a wonderful story. Well, yeah, I've done it on TV a few times. Do you want me to do it?

I think it's, for people that haven't heard it, it's worth repeating. when I was running the marathon. Okay, it was like running through my life because, you know, I was born in Brooklyn. My dad always had his place in Manhattan. The Yankees were in the Bronx. So it was, you know, sense memories. And I remember running through Queens.

And I had this flashback because Simon and Garfunkel, my favorite singers were from Queens. And it just brought back a memory I had from when I was, in college, I had a poetry writing class, and the teacher was this 92-year-old woman, this old crone named Ruth Katz. And I was failing the class. And if I failed the class, who knows, I might have failed out of college. Vietnam was raging. So I had one more shot at submitting a poem that maybe she would like. And like I said, Paul Simon was my idol.

To this day, you know, it's uncanny, who kind of poet he is. So what I did was figuring she's 92, she wouldn't recognize the fact that I submitted the words to the boxer as my poem. She's 92. So I submitted it. We handed our journals on Friday.

On Monday, we're in class. she's handing back the journals. And she said, I read a poem this weekend that just knocked my socks off. Alan, can you come up and read it to the class? So, and I'm going, no, I really, I'm glad to like my poem, but I don't like, you're talking in front of people. I just don't like that. And she prevails on me.

Now, you understand, everyone in the class are my friends, or my age, at least, all of whom had record collections. And I'm about to read the liner notes The biggest selling album It won like 20 Grammys that year, okay? So I get up in front of the class, I look at the time, and I see there's still 40 minutes left in the period,

so there's no way I'm running out the clock here. I take one more look over at Dr. Katz. It's very disappointed to see she was still alive, okay? And I take the poem, and I start going, I am just a poor boy, though my story seldom told. I've squanded my resistance for a pocket full of mumbles, such a promises. All lies in jest, the one hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. I take a breather.

I look over the paper, and the whole class is like, What? Huh? And I look over at Dr. Katz, and she's beaming. She's just beaming at this Jew poet Somehow Captured the grittiness of New York streets And she goes continue

When I left my home in my family I was no more than a boy In the company of strangers In the quiet of the railway station Running scared Laying low Seeking out the poor quarters Where the ragged people go

Looking forward the places only they would know. And that's when it happened. That's when everyone in the class started saying, Lila, Lai. Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai, Lai. Lai, Lai. I look over at my teacher.

The 92-year-old woman just says to the rest of the class, it's inspiring, isn't it? My favorite story. You know, you reminded me. Dinner's going to be late. No, no. It wasn't even like a funny story, but you were talking about the Vietnam War somewhere at home. I still have a draft registration card.

Wow. Because by law, you had to go in and register for the draft. And I remember my mother going with me, and so that was a scary time period. What number did you get in the draft? Do you remember? Was it high enough to exempt you? Well, I never actually notified. me, thankfully. Oh, because there was a lottery,

if you remember. They picked their 366 dates. But I had the card that I was registered. No, it's real scary stuff. Very, very scary. Anyway, you have some stuff to plug right now. Oh, I have a young adult book coming out in September. It's a real funny

book that I wrote with a guy named Adam Manzbach. Adam Mansbach wrote a children's book a couple of years ago that sold a gazillion copies. The name of the book is go to fuck to sleep. Oh, yes, yes. And it's really funny, and what's really, really funny, if you listen to the audio version,

Samuel Jackson is reading a story to a little kid. And Samuel Jackson, go to fuck to sleep, him getting angry. So we met a couple, about a year and a half ago, and we wrote a young adult book called, right now it's tentatively called Benjamin Franklin, huge pain in my ass, okay? but we may not be able to use the word ass. It's amazing that I wrote a book with a guy who wrote go to fuck to sleep.

That was okay, but ass might be bad here. Okay, so I'll plug that. And feel the dreams. Well, God knows. I'm just hoping that that comes about. And I'm writing another book with Dave Barry. Like we said, prolific. At the moment, untitled.

Well, this has been Gilbert Gottreed's amazing. colossal podcast from the George Burns room and the Friars Club in New York. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopatra, and we've been talking to someone who may or may not be the tallest Jew writer. I'll get back to you on that. Bruce Jay Friedman was tall.

Yeah, okay. It's tall. It's hilarious. Thanks, Alan. Thanks for having you guys.