Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Rewind: Episode #44: Carol Leifer

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Emmy-nominated writer, producer and comedian Carol Leifer joins Gilbert and Frank to talk about early comedy influences Mickey Katz, Allan Sherman and Vaughn Meader, her salad days at The Comic Strip and Catch a Rising Star and scripting unforgettable “Seinfeld” episodes like “The Rye,” “The Lip Reader” and “The Hamptons” (aka “The Ugly Baby.”) Also, Carol dates Paul Reiser, recognizes Ron Perlman, compliments Barry Levinson and opens for the Chairman of the Board. PLUS: Lenny Schultz! “Cool Hand Luke”! The return of “Dummy in the Window”! Gilbert meets Lorne Michaels! And Carol (sort of) meets Jack Nicholson! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopatra. And today we're going to be talking to an old friend of mine from the Comedy Club days. And I've known her for years. She's gone on to write seven Oscar telecast, as well as some classic TV shows that you may have heard of. We laugh about the old days, talked about everyone from Larry Ragland to Frank Sinatra, and I even got to sing a little bit. So enjoy our conversation with comic and writer Carol Lief. Spring training is underway, and that can only mean one thing.

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Use promo code Gilbert for free entry now at DraftKings.com. That's DraftKings.com. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. here with my co-host Frank Santo Padre. Our guest this week is a comedian, an Emmy nominated writer of Modern Family, the Larry Sanders show, Saturday Night Live, and a little obscure show called Seinfeld. She's also written seven Academy Award telecast and has worked with comedic geniuses like Larry David, Chris Rock, Gary Shandling, Steve Martin, and Gilbert Gottfried. Her career has run the gamut from emcing at male strip clubs to opening for the legendary Frank Sinatra.

Her new book is entitled How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, Lessons from a Life in Comedy. let's welcome to the show our friend the very funny Carol Leifer. Thank you, thank you all. Thank you. Take your seats. Thank you. Welcome, Carol. How's going, guys?

Good. Thanks for doing it. Now, I think we've met once or twice, haven't we? Oh, my God. Gilbert, do you know how far we go back? We literally go back. You know, here's what's so funny about my, you know, reminiscences of you. Most of my, when I picture you, it's literally by the velvet rope at catch a million times in the late 70s, early 80s.

I always think of that's when we spent the most time together. Yeah, it was. And what I remember, too, about those days, like in the early days of trying to get on at the clubs, was like the MC would come out and sometimes look around the room and go, oh, God, We've got a full crowd sled still, and there's nobody here. But, you know, when I think back, I didn't even, you know, I forgot about that. Like, at the other clubs, the improv and the comic strip, there were time slots. You were on at 950, then at 10.10, then at 10.30.

Like, a catch. It was just like this free-for-all feeding frenzy. You know, the MC would come out and it'd be like, oh, maybe you'd be next. or maybe you'd be picked three hours from then. I mean, it was crazy. And who what? Let's talk about some of the people hanging out in the bar with us. Yes, okay.

Well, Larry David. Right. Larry David, who you also had to be sure if you were maybe following him, you didn't even know if you were following him, you had to be sort of in the room because he could bolt off the stage at any moment from any rude, you know, anything perceived as rude or something with the crowd that he didn't like, he would just bolt. So you had to go on next. Yeah, it's like if someone was like biting their nails or something, it would bother him and he'd start screaming at them.

We talked to Susie Esmond, Carol, and she said that one night in the club, somebody, he was doing a joke about a bungalow and somebody said, what's a bungalow? And he walked off the stage. That is exactly the kind of thing that would have irked Larry. Exactly. And, of course, another unknown comic, Jerry Seinfeld used to be. Yes. Yes. Although I don't remember him being around Catch a Rising Star that much.

You know, he was such a comic strip act and identified with that club and really ran the place. I mean, I think what's so funny about, you know, having a long show business career like we all have, that, you know, when I started at the comic strip, when I passed the audition with Paul Riser and Rich Hall, the same night in 1977, and Jerry was the MC, you know, he was already a star there. I mean, he'd only been doing it a year longer than us, but he was already like an MC, which was like a big deal, and could pass people on the auditions. You know, he was really this big maher, you know, only doing it for a year. But, yeah, he wasn't really at catch as much as the other

people that we know. Like, oh, Rita Rudner was also hanging around then, too. And I remember with the comic strip, he had such control over that place that every single comic at the comic strip would their delivery would be like this. Was he bothered by your impression? You've alluded to that in the past.

Because I used to, like, listen, sometimes just through the wall, you could hear it. And I wouldn't even see who was on, but I'd hear, Oh, do, do, do, do, do. What did Jerry ever find? Did you ever do that on, well, I'm trying to think, you've done your Jerry impression places, right? Oh, yes. Spot on.

One time on Howard Stern, we called up. his answering machine and and i spoke as his long-lost son for about an hour till he ran out of who else was in the clubs in those days who else was sitting around with larry and jerry and who are the names that that people might not be not know might not be household names who you mean the people who weren't yeah yeah like a big van yeah like like gilbert talked about Larry Raglin for about an hour with Bob Saggin. Yes. Larry Raglin was a very, you know, he was a very big, you know, entertainer. I mean, like, that was great about performing in nightclubs like we did.

It wasn't just a comedy club. It was, you know, singers, and Larry was a singing impressionist. And as Gilbert knows, you know, we all have our tricks of what makes people respond and, you know, get big, you know, audience reaction. and he went up and sang and did all these. And before anyone forgets, I won't do the entire thing. But today I thought I saw a dummy in the window. But it was you.

What is the dummy in the window song? Did anybody ever figure out what that meant or what it was about? Was it only known to him? Bob Sagitt was on this show, and he demanded I sing the entire song, which I did. I heard him so many times. And it would kill every single time, right? Oh, and you know what? Oh, go ahead.

The other thing about, you know, people entertaining at the club was that, you know, Pat Benatar was discovered at Catch Rising Star, and I have this amazing memory of, you know, going online, going in line on a Monday afternoon to get my number to go on that night, a Catch Rising Star. And I remember while we were all sitting there in the hot sun waiting, you know, to get our number, Pat Benertar breathed into the club because she already was, you know, somebody with a name and really on her way to becoming famous. And she just turned to the line and she said, hang in there, guys.

It really works. You know, like the whole system. Like it worked for me, so I know it can work for, well, maybe one or two of you, you know. But it was like, you know, this whole kind of assembly line of trying to become a comedian and be an entertainer. But, you know, I think that was interesting time, too, because I think as we all know, too, it was really good to follow a singer, you know, because they kind of got the audience up and in a good place. and you didn't have to compete with anybody others, you know,

anybody else's kind of comedic energy or if it matched yours or not, you know? And I remember Pat back then, Pat Benito was like, you know, this cute little lounge singer. She was buttoned down and very conservative. And Rick Newman went up managing her for a while.

Yeah. I think after that, yeah. Yeah, for a really, really long time. I mean, she just like took off. But then like, remember, oh God, Joni.

There was Joni Peltz. Joni Peltz. Right, right, right. She used to say, don't rain on my parade. But it was really, you know, she was like somebody who you just, you know, she captivated the audience. You really just thought, you know, it was exciting because you were always thinking this person could be the next big thing, you know. Every single singer. back then and every single club

would sing, you know, everyone has its season, everyone has its time. It was the time of those kind of songs. Don't cry out loud. A little Miss Melissa Manchester. And I remembered there was one singer who would only appear at catch.

And I think named Bill Morrill. What was your name? Bill Maroo. Oh, Bill, okay. He became big. But he used to sing, make me laugh and make me cry. Make me live until I die. That's the way, baby, tenderly.

Let me love you forever. I'm so happy that there is someone who'll give me love in return. Bap, ba, ba, ba, ba, pa, ba, pa, bah, pa. Oh, God. I don't remember that guy. Did he really, like, you know, sing the entire, like, song and people liked it? Yeah, and that was the middle section. Bap, ba, ba, ba, ba, pa.

Oh, my God. What about Lenny? Lenny Schultz. Oh, Lenny Schultz. Well, I know him, yeah. Yeah, who used to just be like nuts. And he'd. Right, crazy.

Did he wear a chicken suit? Lenny Schultz? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And didn't people in the audience yell out, go crazy, Lenny? Oh, yes, yes. And I think one time he told me he used to travel with a midgett

and one time hit the midget up and held them upside down and jerked them off on stage. Great. It's ahead of his time. Oh, my God.

Well, I would have paid to see that. I'd be too. So, Carol, tell us about how you started doing it the first time, how you started? Because I think Gilbert, you started at 15. Yeah. So by the time, Carol took the stage for the first time, you'd already been at it.

Yeah, I was already judging. Jessel. Well, you know, I didn't know anything about these clubs, these nightclubs, because I was just this college student, and I went to school with Paul Reiser in upstate New York in Binghamton, and Paul was another city person who knew about these clubs, and he was doing it in high school because he went to Sybison. And when we went to college, he was like, oh, I like to go to this nightclub, and I like to go on, you know, during the summer.

And, you know, there weren't comedy clubs that are like, who's this guy who's in nightclubs? Like, who's this victim own? Shows up at nightclub. Like, what is this? And then I went and I watched him at catch. And, you know, Paul is such a natural, right? From the beginning, he was so good at it. And I saw this kind of world of people who like, oh, wow, you want to be a comedian?

Well, you know, get a number and go on and you're a comedian. that, you know, I always tease Paul that if I never met him, I don't know if I would have found that exact route to performing and being a comedian, but it, you know, it's what I've always loved about stand-up comedy and, you know, continue to that, like, it's not complicated. It's not like, if you, like, if you want to be an actor, you know, you got to get an agent, you got to go to classes and you get, you know, it's like, ah, you know, we're all like, I think also impatient people. And I like this, you know, this immediate route to doing what you wanted to do.

And as, you know, we all know, you only get good at doing this by doing it three million times, you know? That's what's so weird about it now, because I always think what got me into the business and what kept me there in those early years was out and out stupidity. You didn't realize the amount of work and your chance of making it was one in a zee. billion. Right. Now, Gilbert, I don't even know how, how did you hear as a 15-year-old about these nightclubs and was the first one, Catch? Yeah, I'm curious myself. Yeah. I can't, oh, catch hadn't opened yet. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. It's 1942.

Yeah. There was like a Chinese laundry there or something. He did stand up on the GI Bill. I was this kid. Oh, yeah. I would do imitations. of actors I saw on TV and I was joking around the stuff and finally someone said to my sister, you know, there's this place, the bitter end where they have open mic night. They called it Hurtnanny Night. Yeah, right. And I went there with my two older sisters on the train and I just put my name down on the list and then went on, did mainly imitations.

Oh, my God. a 15-year-old. Yeah. You didn't really have a comedy act. No. And I was doing like, you know, Humphrey Bogart and Boris Karloff showing that even then my act was really dated. So it hasn't gotten any more relevant since. So wait a minute.

How did they introduce you like, oh, here's a kid who wants to come on. Like, come on, kid. Yeah, pretty much. They would just see the name and they go, okay, our next performer. is so-and-so. Right. Then, yeah, then I'd go out and, yeah, so it was at the bitter end. Wow, and how did it go over the first time that you went on?

Another thing, I think, I always say it, but it's true. I don't know if I did well or if I was too stupid to know I bombed. Uh-huh. But maybe I was in that much of a day, so I would do it again after that. Right. You know, it's so funny because the first time I went on a catch, I had like the perfect spot. Like David Say was the MC, and I went on fifth. I still remember that.

And I think I'd followed somebody who bombed, you know, which was always great because it's like, it's only going to be better than somebody's bombing. And I went on and, you know, I had a pretty practiced five minutes and it killed. And then I just came off stage. And I said, to Paul, like, I just thought like, wow. Okay, so I guess I'll be on the Tonight Show like a week from now. You didn't realize like the next time I went on, you know, I ate it and it was horrible and people were, you know, heckling me. And it was like, oh, it's not at all like this first perfect time.

It's so funny that way because I know with me it was the same thing. I go on stage, do a great set and then I, well, that's it. I'm taking over for Charlie Chaplin as the legendary comedian. And then I go on the next night and completely bomb. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you remember your first joke, Carol? Was it the Trident Gum joke was one of your first jokes? Yes, I had a joke about another one, you know, another commercial that's, you know,

nobody would remember now. But, you know, Trinacom, they say that four out of five dentures surveyed recommend sugar's gum. You know, who's this fifth guy? What do you recommend? You know, rock candy and juju-jubes, you know, or I had always different, you know, maple gargle with maple syrup or whatever, you know. But, you know, when I have my first five minutes on tape, which is really outrageous, but I still have that tape. Yeah. And, you know, I listen.

listen to it now, like it's my daughter doing stand-up, but, you know, we know from years of watching audition night, you know, if you have something that's pretty practiced and pretty has, you know, one or two okay jokes, you know, the audience would always be with them because they're always rooting for someone who was halfway sane, you know, and wasn't like a crazy person off the street who came up, you know, and got on audition night. So I always got good feedback right away, as I'm sure you did too, Gilbert, right? Well, sometimes I got great feedback. Other times the audience would scream at me and, like, get the jackets on.

Yeah. I think the first time I saw you, Carol, you were doing a bit about Bobby Goldsboro and Richard Harris singing MacArthur Park. Yes, yes. I did a lot of musical takeoff things like that. that, you know, I just, it really, the thing that was so great for me about stand-up right away was that it was like you could take things that you were telling your friends were funny things and, like, put them on stage, and it's like, oh, and this is what kind of makes up your act. Okay, so, you know, I always tell people who are thinking about going into comedy, like, it really should be in your wheelhouse already. You know, this shouldn't be something that you have to really work so hard at that it's something you want to try to make a living at.

Like, it really needs to be second nature to do this kind of stuff because it really was that kind of thing. And, you know, to watch Paul put his act together at the same time, I mean, I'm really impressed, you know, Gilbert that, well, your sisters brought you, but that you kind of went out on your own with this at such a young age, you know, I always say to people, like, I don't know if I were, had been alone if I would ever have the courage to go to these clubs without, you know, Paul is my friend there, you know, experiencing this with me. Now, was Paul ever more than just a friend with you? Yes, I dated Paul. Yes, he was my college boyfriend. I should say that like Loris Leachman in Young Frankenstein. He was my friend. There we go. Now, you came from a funny family, Carol. I mean, to talk a little bit in the book is touching to read about the...

Can you describe Paul Reiser in a bit? Oh, God. He's off the... Did he go? He's off the track. Oh, that's good. That's, uh, oh, yes. Yes, grab my balls.

Your, your Seinfeld is much better than your riser up and play right now. I could never quite get the riser down. He's, yeah, I would think he is not easy to get. He's got, uh, see. going. I've never seen anyone do Paul Ryan. Yeah. It's tough. No. Yeah. But, you know, I grew up, my parents were comedy freaks. Really, my dad was because he really had wanted to be a comic comedian. And so when I grew up, and I think it's really kind of what's sad about kids growing up today is, you know, when I grew up, you were captive to what your parents, to your parents' record player, you know.

so I know every word to Fiddler on the Roof as a result, but also to, you know, comedy albums like, my parents played that 2,000-year-old man, Carl Reiner Mel Brooks album. I mean, till it probably was scratched out and we had to get another copy at Corvettes, you know. Corvettes. I had a really good comedy education in the house

because they listened to that. They listened to Bon Meter, the first family album. Sure, sure. You know, my dad had these Mickey Katz records, you know, who's Jennifer, who's Joel Gray's father who was in vaudeville. You got to work with Jennifer later, and it's like you know. I did. Boy, Frank, you're on everything.

Oh, my God. And Mickey would sing, how much is that pickle in the window? That was one of how much is that pickle? in the window. Did he have a Davey Crockett? Didn't he parody the famous Davy Crockett song too? Oh, that's right. That's the one we had.

Yeah. I listen to Mickey Katz and Alan Sherman. I wasn't even Jewish. Yeah, Alan Sherman was, you know, giant, really, really, I mean, at the time. His was hello mother, hello father. My son the folk singer. But I think we really grew up in a fantastic time because of that. because now, you know, having a kid of my own, he's not captive at all to what I'm playing in the house.

He listens to, you know, he's got his own headphones. He listens to whatever he wants, you know. And I think especially if you grew up with parents, you know, with good taste, I look back now and I feel really lucky that I was held captive to their, you know, whatever they played in the house. I remember, like, back then TV had like three stations. and it's like you'd watch these shows and they, you know, you had to watch what was on. Right. And it's like, so you'd watch a variety show. And in order to see like maybe the rock group or Van Churloquist, you had to sit through the other stuff.

Yeah, yeah. And you realize that a lot of times the other stuff wasn't that bad. No. And you actually enjoyed it and learned stuff. Yeah, because look at all the great comedians that were on Ed Sullivan, and you had to sit through, you know, the guys in tights doing their acrobatic stuff from Poland, you know. And there used to be so many old movies on TV. Back then he weren't even that old.

That's the funny. The million dollar movie. Yes. Right, right. And I still remember, you know, the theme. this theme song from Channel 7 to listen to that, right? I know, nan, nan, nan, nan, Oh, sure.

With the guy and the director in the chair spinning around in the shot. Oh, yes. Yeah. And the 430 movie. With the late night movie was da-da, da-da, da-da-da-da. The syncopated clock. Yeah. And the Channel 7 movie of the week,

which I found out years later was a Bert Backerack score. I didn't know that. Yeah. Wow. The million dollar movie, I think, was Taras theme from Gone with the Wind. Oh, right. This is what we obsess about in the show every week. There was a news station that used to use the...

Cool-hand Luke. Are you thinking of that? Cool-hand Luke thing, yes. Very good. I remember I thought that Cool-hand Luke. once and I was like, I can't believe they stole the Channel 7 news things. Now, we work together, among other things, on a TV show. Oh, my God, that's right, the Toast of Manhattan.

Yes, which I remember the song. Do you remember the song to the Toast of Manhattan? Okay. Please, regale me. You don't have to. It's the toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan. So this must be Sunday. The toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan.

And here's our own Freddy. Every Sunday, every Sunday with lots and lots of variety. It's the toast of Manhattan. You remember the theme song from a pie? Yes. A failed pilot? Did it air? That is outrageous that you remember that.

No, wait a second. I remember because it was, you know, unlike Rain Man with dates, I remember it was the spring of 1982. And so I was already living out in California. Did they fly you out to be in the coast of Manhattan, Gilbert? They flew me polarizer out. And they, I think we were old staying at like some housing. Bob Nelson. It was Oakwood.

I remember that. Yeah. Yep. And yes. And, yeah, and I remember, too, I was playing a character on this show who was like some showbiz manager. And they said, well, how do you see him? And I said, well, he's kind of a middle-aged guy. And then the producers and makeup men got together.

And this middle-aged guy became like a scene out of the mummy, you know? Yeah, I remember that. They put a bald wig on you, I remember that. And all these, you know, all those like glue on, like prosthesis. Right, right, yes. Sheeks and chin and neck and what was the premise of it? And the funny glasses. Oh, yeah.

And it was like I would have to come in like three hours before everyone else. Yeah, yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first a word from our spot. answer. Now, Carolyn, in your book, you say that you went, you went right up to Barry Levinson, and you told him that you loved him in high anxiety, and he was flattered. And do you think that helped you get the part? Yes, I do. You know, many of the things that I cover, Frank, in my book called How to Succeed a Business without really crying. I'm holding it up.

You know, I really do think that so much of, you know, when you're a true fan of comedy, like I am, you know, I think it always helps to share your enthusiasm with people because people are people, and now, you know, I've been in the business so long, I've been on the other side where people have auditioned for me. And, you know, when you tell someone that you really like them in a very small, minimal nothing part in a movie and you can recite their lines and all that kind of thing, it definitely has an effect on them, you know, I mean, how can it not? When you're a fan like that. So one of my things that I try to tell, you know, I'm really getting fantastic feedback from very young people about my book, and I'm really flattered because I really do share

a lot of these kind of things that I think along the way help you if you want to have not only a career in show business, but in anything. And something like that is like, you know, tell people when you like them and stuff, you know, it's like, don't be afraid to do that kind of thing. Who doesn't love that, you know? And it's funny when you mentioned sitting on the other side of the auditioning process. And the times I've done that and watched people audition, you get a different perspective. Because when you're auditioning, you just think the other people there are scumbags, making your life difficult. Right, right, exactly.

I know. And when you're on the other side, you really see that. The thing that always really sells someone to you is when they don't. don't give a shit, you know, when they show up and they do their work, and it's not that kind of desperation that I know that I always, you know, would bring in to most auditions, like, you know, this anxiety and like, oh, God, I really want to get this, you know, and you find that the people who audition and kind of have it, you know, roll up their back. I talk in my book, actually, about, you know, working at Seinfeld and Brian Cranston coming

in to audition. You know, he played Tim Watley. Oh, the dentist. The dentist on Seinfeld. And, you know, he was such a go-to comedy guy, which is amazing when you think about how talented he is, that he can also play such a dramatic actor so well. But, you know, he would come in and he would know his stuff

and he would show up and do it great. And he would leave, like, you know, it wasn't that kind of thing with me auditioning where the second I leave, I'm calling my agent, like, keep getting feedback, you get him. Yes. You know what the thing. You know, just people who do their work and can let it go, you know.

And what I remember, too, watching people audition, and I should really talk, but it's like sometimes a person would walk in and go, oh, hello, I'm, you know, Joe Smith, I'm going to be auditioning for the part of so-and-so, and you go, oh, you know, I like this guy. He seems like a nice guy. And then when they would act, you know, in quotes. And it's like, that's when they'd lose. All they're warm than everything that you ever liked about them would stop. Yeah, yeah.

I love that you went up to Barry Levinson and just told him that you were a fan of something that he wasn't really known for. I mean, it was a small part. He was a writer on the Carol Burnett Show, and he wrote Injustice for All, which I don't think a lot of people know, the Pacino movie. Oh, yeah, yes. With Valerie Curtain. But he's in high anxiety as this wonderful cameo as the bellhop that stabs Mel Brooks with the rolled-up newspaper. So I think we forget, too, that those people that we're talking to are also fans who have probably wanted to do that in their careers to other people. Right.

And Barry Levinson used to be in a comedy team with Craig T. Nelson. That's right. And Rudy DeLucah, who's still around. Who's also in high anxiety as the guy with the assassin with the metal team. Right. And Craig was in our pilot to toast in Manhattan as an actor. and Rudy was one of the producers. Yes.

But that's so funny what you were saying about auditioning. You know, the other thing, too, like that desperation kind of bleeding through. You know, when I've been on the other side and the people have auditioned and then they audition and they go, would you like to see it another way? It's like, yeah, how about outside? I have to tell. How about you do it out there? I have to tell just a quick story that I'm inspired by what you're saying, Carol.

And I wasn't in the sitcom business very long. I was staffed on a show in L.A. called Lost on Earth that was completely forgettable, except John O'Hurley was on it, Peterman from Seinfeld, and Stacey Galena was on it, who you worked with on All Right, exactly, yes. I wrote an episode with my writing partner,

and we actually had to sit in on casting, and a gentleman came in, he was an older actor, and he walked into the room, and I jumped up, and I said, oh, Ralph Manza. Now, he was an absurd, because I'm an idiot, savant for this stuff, but he was an obscure character actor that I had recognized from an old episode of Batman, from the

60s. And I made this guy's day. He told me nobody had ever recognized him by name in an audition. That's kind of what I liked about living in L.A. You would recognize these people and get to make their day by mentioning their names. He told me he ran home to his wife. He stayed in touch with me from months. Oh, my God.

Because he said I was the only person that ever recognized him on hundreds of auditions and ever actually bothered to know his name. So it made me feel good. John Hurley, John O'Hurley, who was Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterman. Right, he played Mr. Peterman. He was on our show, short-lived. And I remember I was on an episode of a USA show called Silk Stockings where we had to track. Right, Charlie Brill was on that.

Yes. That's right. And we had to trap down a killer, of course, who is for some reason, of course, in a strip club. And we wind up. I'm like fighting with John O'Hurley in the. the mud wrestling pit. A very nice man, by the way. And then we shower together.

So me and John O'Hurley, Mr. Peterman, saw each other's dicks. Oh. Well, that brings this. Look at that. Now we've landed on something. See? But, you know, it can work the other way in recognizing someone.

You mean so. You mean you cannot. see someone's dick? I've moved on from the dick. Okay, so I remember... I just got that. I was shopping

on 8th Street in the village once. I went into, I still used this luggage called the Sports Sack, okay? So I walk into the LaSports Sack store. And this guy is helping me and he's very nice, but he's kind of like, he's very kind of

like, you know, manly, man. like very kind of hairy and kind of, you know, he's helping me. And I'm like, I know this guy from somewhere. Like, I know it. I know him. And then it kind of finally hits me. And I say to him in the sports sector, I said, wait a second, were you in quest for fire? He's really hairy.

And thank God, it was Ron Perlman, you know, the guy who. Oh, sure. But if you say to someone, were you in quest for fire? and the answer is, no, I wasn't. That's a very bad question to ask. That's hilarious. I heard that actor Luis Guzman. Oh, Luis Guzman from all the Paul Thomas Anderson.

He said when they were showing those cavemen commercials, people used to come up to him all the time and go, hey, I love you, Newcom. Oh, my God. Carol, this is a perfect segue since we're talking about character actors. What happened? I have to go to the bathroom. Can I? Can I pee and come right back? We'll pause it.

We cannot hold it anymore. We'll pause it and edit it out. All right. Okay. I'll be back in one minute. You bet. Okay. Okay.

Hold on. Okay. Now this shows our ages here because when we were getting ready to call you on the podcast, I said, hey, wait, I got to go pee first. and I ran and peed. And then we were talking to you and Frank said, oh, I have to pee. And now in the middle of the interview, you have to pee, proving that none of us are kids. Exactly, exactly. Which leads me to your first sponsorship should definitely be either Flomax or Tapporteur.

Do you know, Carol, that the first person, the first sponsor that approached us when we launched the show was Squatty Potty? Yeah, it was this, it was basically a plastic box. I kid you not. That you put your feet up on, that lifts your legs. That makes taking a shit easier, allegedly. I know about it because, you know, as a huge Howard Stern fan, he raved about it, raved about it, and then they became a sponsor, and I'm sure they're doing so incredibly well because of Howard's endorsement, which also leads me to, I think the funniest thing I,

always laugh, Gilbert, that you do, that they play on the Stern Show constantly as when you do your rabbi with the fake Hebrew, where to God, I lose it. though. Carol, because we were talking about character actors and we'll move it along, tell us real quickly the Harry Dean Stanton story from the book, which is wonderful. Oh, my God. All right. Well, you know, along the lines of telling people that you are a fan of, that you like

their work, complimenting their work because you're a true fan, I'm also a big proponent of, you know, being social and so many things have happened over my career. really because of a connection, meeting someone at a party or some other thing, it's always good to be out and about, even if it's not naturally in your DNA to be social like that. I really think you have to kind of develop that skill, absolutely, to be in show business.

So my partner, Lori, we're skipping over a whole thing from my college boyfriend to my partner, Lori. Welcome back. Now, by partner, this means someone you do, who's on first base. Yes, no, she's my law firm partner. We have a law firm together. I thought it was more like

Bud Abbott when you say your butt. Yes, she's my comedy partner. She's kind of really the straight man and I'm really the, you know, the fall down, the clown, you know. But anyway, so my Harry Dean Stanton story. So anyway, she is always saying to me, you know, pushing me say hello to that person.

Oh, they're so. go over and say hello. And wonderful things have happened as a result of that momentary thing. I don't want to go over and then you go over and it's, you know, fine. So we're at the Paul Simon concert at the Staples Center in L.A. And I have great seats as a result of being with CAA at the time. I mean, I have to really say if you can ever be with a big agent, do it just for the perks of tickets that you can get.

And anyway, we're sitting there. and Lori's like, hey, turn around, like a few rows behind us. She was, there's Harry Dean Stanton. And I was like, oh, my God. And I turn around, and it's Harry Dean Stanton sitting there with Jack Nippleson. And I'm like, oh, my God. And Lori says, go over and say hello. And I'm like, watch.

Remember, you had dinner with him? And it's like, oh, my God, that's right. We had gone to the Palm restaurant because Richard Belzer had invited, he's very good friends with Harry Dean Stanton, and he invited Jim Valdeley. and Jonathan Schmock and Dom I Rera and a bunch of comics to eat with Harry Dean. And so, you know, we had gone to the palm and we had had dinner and it was a, you know, it was like not even just a dinner. It was like a three-hour adventure and drinking and in the middle of the dinner.

People started chanting mommy because my comedy friends over the years have started to call me as a nickname Mommy. So we were chanting mommy and, you know, drinking and having a great time. the way it was like, oh, go over and say hello. So I muster up the courage, and I walk over and I say, excuse me, Harry Dean, how are you? Remember me? It's Carol Leifer. And he just turns to me and very not in a welcoming way. He just said, no, like, no, I don't know you.

So then I tried, and I wasn't crazy about this, I tried to kind of jog. Remember, I said, remember we had. dinner recently at the palm it was you know Richard Beltar invited me and it was all these comedy guys and and he just turns to me and he's another really

curt and not friendly no so Jack Nicholson by the way at this point it's just like a sminks he has the sunglasses he's not acknowledging that I'm speaking to Harry Dean who's sitting right next to him so then I get really

desperate because I couldn't turn around and just leave then. I'm kind of, you know, we counting the entire dinner, like almost to the point of talking about the different breads that were in the bread basket on the table at the pond. Nothing is happening. I'm going, remember people are shouting, mommy, mommy, nothing. He's not turning anything. So finally, I had to accept defeat because this is getting ridiculous with the hole I was

digging that became even bigger by every passing second. So I just kind of wrap it up by going, well, Anyway, Harry Dean just thought I'd come over and say hello. So then I do the 180 turning around, the walk of shame. Lori's head is bowed down because she could see that this did not go well. And as I'm walking back, 100 yards later in the Staples Center, I hear Harry Dean go, I remember now. And I waved to him 100 yards away, and that was it.

What a character he is. I remember doing a movie called Jack and the Beanstalk, and in it was Christopher Lloyd, who I've been doing voice work with all these years on Cyberchase. Wait a minute. Which Christopher Lloyd, the director, final tab, or the... Oh, no. Reverend Jenner.

Back to the future. Yeah, back to the future. Oh, right, right, right. Sorry, I'm thinking of, right. Floyd the comedy. So we went to the two main voices on Cyberchase for years. And then the other person in the movie was Katie Segal from Married with Children, who I was squeezed into a life raft with in that episode. And so I was happy to see the two of them. And I went over to the two of them. Neither one of that. I mean, you'd think I wanted it in off the street.

You're not the only one, Carol. Right, right. But is that like the worst moment ever where you go over and you expect a somewhat, you know, even just a polite reception if they don't remember. You have, oh, hi, how are you? Okay. And then, you know, whatever. And it's like the, no, I don't know. Yes.

Can you leave? I was expecting at least even a smirk of acknowledgement. Not a hug or anything, but even just like, oh, like that, you know, like a phony show. But nothing. Yeah. No, it's hard. It's hard to brave that. Carol, we'll get to Seinfeld as soon as we can.

But let's talk real quickly about Saturday Night Live because neither you or Gilbert had a particularly memorable experience on that show. Right. Yes, yes. You were there for one season, the Lawrence's first season. season back in 85? It was Lauren's first season back after Dick Ebersol, yes, handed over the reins again to Lauren. And, you know, people always like, what year did you work?

And I always kind of call it the weird year because it had the strangest cast ever with, you know, Randy Quaid and Robert Downey Jr. And Joan Toussack and Lovitz and Dennis. Miller, Terry Sweeney. It was just, yeah, really. The guy from Breakfast Club. Anthony Michael Hall. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it was such, you know, what I remember so clearly about it, too, is that you know, at the end of the season, you know, S&L is this institution and 40 years and all of that. And, you know, that, at the end of that year, the show almost got canceled. It was

that poorly received, you know. So it was really, you know, I'm sure like you, Gilbert, I feel like I would never trade my year there for anything. I mean, because it is, you know, to have worked on this show. I still, you know, cherish having gotten the opportunity, even though it was not an easy gig for me. But, you know, it's really wild to look back on, especially, you know, when I think back of thinking of writing, because I saw, you know, A. Whitney Brown when I was back at the 40th reunion and stuff. And, you know, people smoking in the offices and, you know, not having computers to write your sketches on. You'd write them in longhand on a, you know, yellow legal pad and hand it over to someone to write it up for you.

I mean, you know, it's just wild. And I, it's so funny because for years, I felt like this sense of shame, like people knew me from this horrible. But after a while, I totally forget, and I get it mixed up like, you know, like cavemen and dinosaurs. Right, right. Or Luis Guzman. Oh, yes, yes. What were you, 11 episodes? Yeah, yeah, that was pretty much it.

And what's funny is I went to the Saturday Night Live 40th celebration. Yes, I saw you there, yes. And what was interesting, it was the first time I ever met. at Lorne Michaels. And he shook my hand, and I was kind of surprised that he was shaking my hand. And he said, well, you're a brick in this wall. Oh, that's kind of nice. Yeah.

Wow, that's really, that's really amazing. I mean, I remember when you got SNL. That was really wild to, you know, have scored that gig, especially because, you know, Gilbert really got to think about. I suck. They didn't cast a lot of stand-ups. I mean, they put you and Eddie in the cast, well, in Piscopo, too, but then they kind of, like, got rid of the stand-ups,

and they didn't kind of really come back until, like, Dana Carvey in that year, you know? Yeah, it was a very, and with me, what was so awful, it was kind of like if in the middle of Beatlemania, they got rid of John Paul, George, Ringo and brought in four out, their schmucks. They hated us from the start. They did. They did.

But, you know, it was great at the 40th to see, and I should have taken a picture of it. When you and Eddie and Tim Kazerinsky were all together and kind of hugging each other, it was really, really nice because you could really see as an outsider that, you know, when you share an experience. like that, you really are kind of bonded in a way with someone that, you know, nobody else knows about. And you could see it all these years later how, when you guys were together, how familiar it was. And you see people you didn't work with, and you still have that connection. So it's all a fraternity that you're all in, really? Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

Did you get anything on, Carol? I know you had a rough year. Did you get any sketches on? You know what, Frank, it's really wild to look back now because I did this They did a video shoot With a few of the writers And I did it with Sarah Silverman

And a bunch of other people And Sarah was saying You know, she really only had like one sketch on That she got on And you know, other writers Like Larry David who said He never got anything on Like I really got a bunch of stuff on

You know Like things that I wrote With other people like that black girl Was that with Dinichervance? Yeah, with Dinichranz Yeah, I remember that I got a sketch on with Tom Hanks and one with Angelica Houston and Dudley Moore. I look back now, it's like, I can't believe I got fired.

Like, I got a lot of shit on. I don't get it. And let's see all the people, like I was fired from Saturday Night Live. But the other people like Sarah Silverman. Dave Attell. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Oh, and Norm McDonald. Larry, Dave. Oh, do, uh, uh, Damon Wayans. Yeah. Lots of good people. Right. Oh, I was there that year when he got fired too.

Because I think he got mad and he was doing some sketch as a cop and he, for no reason at all played it as gay. Yes. Yeah. It wasn't really a good thing to do. If you were looking to get fired, that was the kind of thing one would actually find in the handbook of how to get fired. So you're a writer on a show.

It's an iconic show. It's a kind of an up-and-down year. You get a lot of stuff on, but oddly enough, you're let go. And then you go back to stand-up, Carol? And then I went back to stand-up, yeah. And actually, that was – I wasn't too upset about not going back to S&L because, you know, when you're on the outs there, when you're kind of not in the main club of whatever year you're there,

it's a little bit of a relief because, you know, when you're in with the in crowd, it's great, but when you're not, you really want to get as far away from there as you can. So it was a good time for me to concentrate on doing stand-up then. And, you know, but I'm still, you know, going back to the 40th. And, you know, I am really proud of the writers that I came up with because, you know, George Meyer was a writer when I was there. Terrific writer. He's a terrific who's, you know,

did so much Simpsons and great work in John Swordswelder and Jack Handy and Donovello. And, you know, I always tease him because Robert Smigel was a, they called it an apprentice writer that year. And I would always tease him that, that meant that he needed to wear goggles, safety goggles. Whenever he was in the writer's room. but, you know, to come up, you know, the guys from kids in the hall were writers my year.

Oh, Bruce was there. Yeah, Bruce McCullough. So it was really amazing to really work with that caliber of people that early in my career. I just worked with Schmigel recently on that night of too many stars. Oh, oh, right. Was that last night? Did that air? Yeah, and he was there and his puppet was there. We have to get Robert on the show. Triumph the dog.

So, Carrie, you went back to stand up, and help us with the chronology, when did Larry and Jerry call? That was in 93. So that was a few years later. You know, I got the luckiest break of my life in that Seinfeld. When Larry and Jerry were hiring writers for the show, They never wanted anybody who had written on sitcoms before. They really wanted people who had never done it because, as far as Larry was concerned, if you'd written sitcoms already, you were kind of corrupted by the system and, you know,

had a lot of bad rules and guidebooks in your head. So they asked me to, you know, come on the writing staff of Seinfeld. There was amazing because it was also kind of right on the cusp, too, of... it becoming super successful. So it wasn't, you know, it was an amazing, amazing opportunity, but the show was still kind of finding its legs. You know, it wasn't the blockbuster yet that it became probably two years later. So, you know, it was amazing. Was season five when you came on? Yes. It's funny to look at the early Seinfeld shows. The Seinfeld Chronicles at the very beginning.

And you see that the characters weren't down yet. Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I think what is so brilliant about the show and, you know, everything to do with the show came from Larry and Jerry. I mean, they were really, you know, the crux of every episode and every script, you know, every script that people see on the air went through their, you know, they did a draft of every script.

But I think what's amazing when you look back on it now is even at the beginning when I wasn't there, but the beginning where the ratings were not good at all, I mean, the show would have been gone if it aired now. They wouldn't give it the time to breathe and grow like they did back then just because they did. It would never happen now. So it really is kind of a comment to me in that way because I don't think it could even have existed now.

And I remember what was so funny is like knowing Larry from the clubs is when I'd watch Seinfeld and I'd go, oh, I remember him talking about that happening today. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like talking about at SNL when he couldn't take it anymore as a writer and left a message on Dick Ebersoll's Airship. you know, saying that he wanted to, well, telling him he wanted to quit and then going in on Monday

and just trying to ignore that he had quit on Friday. Yeah, he had thought about it. He was a big shot and he told him off and he said, I'll never work with you again. Then he thought, oh, my God, I have a job. I can walk to work. And that became an episode where George does the same thing. Right. Right.

And I remember there was an episode It got changed to Elaine But where Elaine has a boyfriend She can't stand from out of town And she has to get him to the airport And the alarm didn't go off So she rushes him out And speeds her car

To the airport to get rid of him And I remember Larry One time talking to him and goes Uh One time I was at this girl and I had enough. And she was leaving the next day, and I had a driver to the airport.

And the alarm didn't come off. And so I was saying, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry. Let's say you'll pack in the car. They encouraged all of you guys, all the writers, to write from, to draw from your own lives. Absolutely. As you did with your classic episodes. Well, it really was a great lesson in learning how to, you know, be in your life, but also always one step out of your life to try to see the funny situations and, you know, make them comedy.

Because, you know, Larry and Jerry were so good at that of just using real things. I mean, I knew if I went into pitch that if it was something that had happened in real life, and I could point to it as a real story, it definitely had a leg up, you know. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossil podcast after this. Now, how was it getting stuff submitted there compared to Saturday Night Live? well um it was really different because as you know gilbert from s and l so much of whether your sketch gets on uh is determined at the read through you know where everybody writes their sketches and then wednesday afternoon all of the cast is around a giant table with loren and whoever

the guest um host is and then all the sketches are read aloud and whatever really works there usually gets on or has a good shot of getting on. And if you read a sketch and it dies, it probably won't, you know, beyond that week. So so much of it had to do with the read-through, you know, as opposed to Seinfeld, we didn't have a classic writer's room per se, like on other sitcoms I've worked on.

Seinfeld, it was really you going into Larry and Jerry's office, you know, setting a time to pitch your stories. You know, it had to be one or two sentences, pretty, you know, concise that would make them laugh right away. And it was, you know, not easy. Their desks faced each other. They were in the same office. Yes, their desks faced each other.

And, you know, a lot of times I would go in and it was, you know, definitely intimidating. And, you know, I'd pitch stuff. And if, you know, Larry was impatient or unhappy, you know, he'd kind of say, I don't know, I could hear that idea on another show. That was like a big put-down. You know, I could see that on another. sitcom or whatever, but, you know, if you said something like Elaine thinks the Korean manicurists are talking about her behind her back in Korean, you know, that would be something that he'd leap

out of his seat and go, yes, yes, we're doing that. That's a show. You know, that's a show. And that kind of thing that happened to me in New York all the time. So those are the kind of things, you know, or saying George brings a deaf woman with him to a party to lip read his ex-girlfriend's lips from across the room to find out why she broke up with him. You know, that was right in his wheelhouse. Jerry's wheelhouse. Yes, that's it. We're doing that, you know.

And then you knew that you were kind of on your way to developing a script for the show. So it was really, you know, where S&L was really down to the table read of these kind of things. You know, Seinfeld was all about if Larry and Jerry signed off on an idea that you had. Then you knew you could go off and start to write your script, you know. But if you didn't have that, if you didn't have the fun. idea right away, you were never going to get a script, you know. And was it the lip reader, the episode where Elaine pretends she's deaf so that she doesn't have to talk to the limo driver? That also came from your life?

Right. And this will be, you know, perfect to tell you guys because as, you know, fellow comics, you know, that idea came from all my years on the road. I always had, you know, a car service guy take me to the airport. And it would always always. be at like at six in the morning when you just rolled out of bed and I'd get chatty Kathy you know who couldn't stop with like how's how's it going this morning what are you for you who wouldn't stop talking and whatever signals I would you know give to like would you please shut the fuck up and drive he would never get it and um so when I pitched that you know it was great because you know Elaine pretends she's deaf so that the car service guy won't talk to her I mean

Obviously, I never did that, but it's something that I always wanted to do. Now, when you were submitting material to Jerry and Larry, did Jerry ever say to you, No, that's a terrible idea. You suck, and I never want to talk to you again. You have no talent. You know, it was a little subtler than that. It was really more if you could, you know, if they weren't responding to your ideas and you could just kind of feel like, oh, I've been in this office a long time and it's getting near lunch and this is not good, nothing's landing. You know, I write a lot of my book about how Jerry and Larry, for two guys who also were just stand-up comics before that experience, they were also remarkably good bosses.

I mean, they really knew how to run the show well. they were very diplomatic. You know, the thing I loved about Larry as kind of, you know, more of the boss in terms of show things while Jerry was on stage. Rehearsing was he was always a straight shooter. And you know his personality is very much like that. But he was always really diplomatic. Like there were so many actors who came on the show who would be at the readthrough and they weren't landing at the readthrough and they had to be fired. And, you know, most showrunners are just big pussies, and they get someone else to do it, and the person is gone, and it's terrible.

And Larry was always the kind of guy. Like, if they had a fire summit, he would insist on it being him, you know, just to be a nice guy and just say, hey, look, it's not anything personal. It's just kind of not working. I'll try to get you back on the show with something else. And I always really admired that about him. You forget that Gilbert worked with Larry on a pilot. Oh, my God. Norman's Corner.

Yes. And to show you how bad this show was. We all forgot, really. Yeah. How awful this show turned out is that when they were pitching Seinfeld, and I think Seinfeld said, well, it's going to be written by Larry David. And they said, isn't he the one that wrote that piece of shit for Gilbert Gottfried? Oh, my God.

Now, wait a second. What network was that for? It was, I think, showtime or something. Wasn't it Cinemax? Oh, Cinemax. Cinema. You know better than I. Was it a Cinemax comedy experiment?

Yes, it was one of those experiments. Was there nudity involved in the time? There was some nudity. They would call a backdoor pilot. Talk about a double meaning. Gilbert wore a murkering. I remember it. He played a Manhattan newsstand owner. That was the premise.

Yes. Yes. And you shot the pilot or you didn't shoot it? We shot it. But like I said, they called it a backdoor pilot, meaning it was a special that was like secretly like we'd like it to be a show. Oh, my gosh. And who directed it? Do you remember?

Oh, God, I forget the director's name. Oh, yeah? No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I think David Lee. David Lee. Carol Liz. Ang Lee.

It was Ang Lee. Let's talk for just a second about a couple of the great iconic episodes. You wrote The Understudy with Bet Midler, and we talked about the lip reader. And my personal favorite episode, I think, the Hamptons episode with the Ugly Baby. The Hamptons, the ugly baby, yes, which was written with the great Peter Melman. Yeah, that really, I think the ugly baby idea pretty positive was Peter Melman. And then the shrinkage thing came up. I think that was a Larry David thing.

So, you know, what was so great about working on the show was all of the, you know, the synergy of so many creative, amazing people that, you know, every episode became 10 times more than it started out to be because of all these amazing writers that I worked with. So, yeah, you know, I look back on the Hamptons and I always laugh. particularly at one line, because, you know, Larry especially, never liked pop culture references. I mean, I knew that if you put that in a script, it would pretty much be guaranteed to be gone in the final draft. And I remember Julia came out wearing this big, blousy, you know, unattractive sundress. And Jerry has this line, you know, he says, and then there's Maude. I remember that Yeah

And I was so happy that Larry never took that out Because, you know, normally it would have gone But whenever I watched the episode I'm always like, you know, thank you Larry For keeping that line It's so funny because so many things are I mean, well look at Murphy Brown

You couldn't watch one episode of that now Yeah Yeah. It was just constant pop culture references. And then, oh, I remember they did actually, and it's funny because it's Seinfeld, they redid the Sunshine Boys with Peter Falk and Woody Allen. Yeah. And they threw in a reference where he goes, well, I'm going to go home and watch Seinfeld. I love it.

Oh, I don't really. Yeah. I don't remember that. Wow. Yeah. There's a scene of the fortune cookie. Billy Wilder movie when the guy that's spying on Jack Lemon says, okay, I'm going to go home and watch Batman, which was a big cultural reference in

1966. And they redid the man that came to dinner for TV and they threw in a reference to Dan Quayle. So it's like, yeah, so like a year or two later, people are going, what is that? So Carol, tell us your favorite Seinfeld episode that you wrote and and your favorite episode that you didn't write, because I'm curious. Well, I really probably would have to say the Rye is probably my favorite science held episode. You know, mostly because, too, when we shot it, they'd never spent, I think they spent a million dollars on the episode, which probably in terms of TV production today is not a lot, but it was like a big deal back then,

and we shot it at the Paramount lot, you know, to do the snow and the handsome cab. Right, right. And all that kind of stuff. The beef arena. The beef arena, which, you know, I have a couple of stories about that because it has a big storyline in the rye about price, you know, what was then called Price Club, which is now Costco, but, you know, I'm still a devoted fan. I love it and about how you buy too much. and you're always left with so much left over. And it always made me laugh.

That giant can you could buy of beefaroni, you know. And then we wanted to use that with Kramer feeds, you know, the beefaroni to his horse, Rusty, which is my horse at camp. But anyway, so Chef Boyardee wouldn't let us use beeferoni. So they made us change it to Beaverino. Hilarious. And the prop guy gave me that big. can as a souvenir when we wrapped shooting, which I kept so proudly until I moved, and a mover

thought it was an empty can and threw it out. It broke my heart to read that in the book. I know. That was really a super drag. But I would say that that's probably my favorite episode, and I know it's one of Jerry's favorite, so that means a lot to me. And I think of the ones that I didn't write that I admire. I mean, anyone in Emmy for it, I think, deservedly.

So, you know, Larry writing that, the contest, you know, the masturbation episode. I mean, you know, there's nothing as brilliant as that it holds up today like anything else. And, you know, it was so edgy and so amazing when that aired. And that to this day, you know, it still never says masturbation in it, you know, the word masturbation or anything like that. that it's so clever and so real, and it really, I think, summarizes the brilliance of Larry David. I mean, I really can't say enough about how much I respect, you know, his talent and what a great person he is. That shot of Kramer coming in and just slamming the money down and saying, I'm out. Just absolutely wonderful.

My memory of that is that that was the episode that sort of, I could be wrong about this. I mean, the show was ascendant, but that that was the episode. so that really turned it up a notch? Yeah, you know, I wasn't there then, but I think it was kind of cumulative. I remember Jerry sending me, you know, I would say emails, but they weren't around in, you know, just saying, like I've noticed people in the village voice or talking about Seinfeld, like in comments, you know, like it still had people that were taking to it and we're seeing, you know, that it was different and funny, even though it wasn't tearing up the ratings.

People, you know, people were liking it. And I think, you know, I said it earlier, but it's amazing that the show stayed on because if it were today, it really would have gotten a quick chance and then it'd be out. Well, it's kind of like with movies that changed, too. There used to be these little movies that would be out for a certain amount of weeks, and then they would build and become blockbusters. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now in the opening night, they go, okay, didn't make any money, get rid of it. Or they don't even get released at all.

They go to DVD or they go to now, I guess, Netflix or. Yeah. And then you went from Seinfeld to another television show that Gilbert and I love, the Larry Sanders show. And that was a different experience altogether because, if I'm not mistaken, it was your first writer's room? Yeah, it was my first kind of classic. sitcom writer's room where, and it's really the way that I kind of still like to work today, where writers kind of write their own drafts, and then that goes to the writer's room, and then everybody kind of rewrites it together, you know, after a table read, which is always

fair, like what worked and what didn't work, and I think that, you know, really showed me kind of the style of sitcom writing that I like now. I mean, you know, it's funny when I worked on sitcoms, you can always tell the comics who became writers versus the writer-writers, because if we're filming live and a joke doesn't work, you know, all the comics who are writers are immediately like, well, great, we'll come up with a few different, you know, choices because it didn't work, you know, where writers can be more precious about it, like, oh, well, we'll sweeten it, you know, in post and all that kind of thing, whereas the comics are like, if it didn't work with the audience, you know, we're not keeping it. We're going to come up with

something else. I experience that when I'm on a show, and they'll have a joke in the script, and I say it, and it doesn't get a laugh, and they go, well, you can make it funny. Yeah, and it's like, I kind of already did that. I tried, and it didn't work. So, yeah, what's the plan B? Can you tell us real quickly about opening for Frank Sinatra, Carol? Oh my God. Opening for Frank Sinatra. That really, you know, as long as I've been around, and I can say that because Gilbert, you might be the person who's been around longer than me.

You know, that still is like the high point of all my years and show business because, you know, I really, I was having a really tough time during that, you know, as a stand-up, I was getting, really shitty gigs. I wasn't doing great. I got this big come on by this new agent who was like, I'm going to get you three times the money you're making now, much better clubs, you know, come over and work with me, and it's going to be blue skies, you know, the whole song and dance. And like cut to six months later, and he's literally booking me at ground round comedy nights on the Jersey Turnpike.

Like, it was horrible. And, you know, you're trying to do comedy, and people are, you're hearing squashed peanut shells in the floor. And I kept saying this guy, like, where are my great gink? Where's all the stuff you promised me? And he was like, I'm working on Frank, you know? And I'm like, Frank, like, Frank's Delon? Because, like, what is going on here?

And lo and behold, like, I get a call. I was working on a cruise ship. And, you know, in those days, if you were working on a cruise ship, you know, one of your parents croaked or your house burnt down. And it was my agent going, I got you opening for Frank Sinatra. He had some weird, strange connection to Jilly Rizzo, who was, you know, Frank Sinatra's manager. And I got to open for him. And it really is such a highlight of my life because not only was the crowd amazing and great,

but he was such a gentleman. Frank Sinatra was like the classiest, nice guy. He would bring me out for a bow after my set, which, you know, at that time, A lot of celebrities wouldn't even put their opening act on the marquee. I mean, I know this happened to Bill Maher. You know, I won't say who the celebrity was, but her talent is supreme. Oh, okay. Nice touch.

So there you go. You had a good experience. And I'll just throw out two names and then we'll let you go. And that's you worked with Bob Hope and Milton Burrell. Yes, I did on Bob Hope had one of his young comedian special on NBC. And he put me on, you know, I was on the show, but it was very sad because it was really, you know, a little past, I think, where Bob Hope should have been performing because they said, come up with something at the end that, you know, a line where a joke you can do with Bob. So at the time, I was doing a joke that was like, you know, things are growing great. I just made a three-picture deal, you know, two eight-by-tens and one wallet size, you know, a photomat or whatever.

And I did the joke, and Bob Hope turned to me and said, well, good for you. Like, not getting it at all. I was like, oh. Did you keep the cute cards as a souvenir from the bob? I do have those two cards. Yes, I'm looking at them right now. That's wonderful. But anyway, this was so much fun.

Go, please tell all of your loyal listeners to get my book, how to succeed in business without really crying, all these stories and more. Lessons from a life in comedy, Carol Leifer. And Kara, we'll have you back another time, but we'll talk about all the stuff we didn't get to. I love it. We could talk forever. Soupy sales and the Oscars and Jay Leno and to know Carson and everything else. And Dave Boone, and he says hello, by the way.

Love Dave, sir. Our mutual friend. So thanks for doing it. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Well, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre, and this has been another episode of Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast,

where we've been talking to acclaimed television writer, N Comedian, and the author of the new book, How to succeed in business without really crying, lessons from a life in comedy, Carol Leifer.