Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - James Burrows

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

GGACP celebrates the birthday (December 30) of Emmy-winning television director James Burrows with this ENCORE of an interview from 2019. In this episode, James talks about the importance of the “straight man,” the influence of his legendary dad Abe Burrows, the societal impact of “Will & Grace” and the winning formulas behind “Taxi,” “Friends” and “The Mary Tyler Moore Show.” Also, Andy Kaufman comes to dinner, Woody Harrelson changes the game, Norman Lear writes a fan letter and James meets John Steinbeck, Truman Capote and Groucho Marx. PLUS: Sydney Pollack! Remembering Ruth Gordon! The comedy of Patchett and Tarses! The generosity of Jay Sandrich! And James directs an “All in the Family” reboot! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi there, I'm Jackie the Jokeman, Marling, and I've had the exquisite pleasure of once again being on Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcasts with the wonderful Gilbert Gottfried and the equally amazing Frank Santo Padre. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre, and our engineer Frank Verde Rosa. Our guest this week is a producer, occasional actor, and one of the most prolific, accomplished, and admired directors in the history of popular entertainment. He's directed thousands of hours of primetime television on landmark shows such as The Mary Tyler Moore Show, the Bob Newhart Show, Taxi, Fraser, Friends, The Big Bang Theory, Will and Grace, and of course a show he also co-created Cheers, occasionally known as,

The Pilot Whisperer, he's also directed the pilots for hit series like Two and a Half Men, Caroline in the City, Darmah and Greg, Dear John, Veronica's Closet, Mike and Molly, and two broke girls. Along the way, he's won eight, primetime Emmys, five Directors' Guild Awards, received life achievement honors from both DGA and the Television Critics Association. And in 2016, he was honored with the primetime NBC special entitled Must See TV, an old star tribute to James Burroughs. In a long and very successful career, he's worked with and directed everyone from John Cleese to Betty White, from Tony Randall to Sidney Pollock, and Elton John to Andy Kaufman. Wow.

He's also worked with many of our previous podcast guests, including Rosanna Arquette, Ed Asner, Bucking. Henry, Hal Linden, Andrea Martin, Michael McKeon, Stephen Weber, Kevin Levine, and Ken Levine, Ken Levine, and Joe Pantiliano. Please welcome to the podcast, an industry giant, a living legend, and a man who somehow managed to direct over 1,000 episodes of television without ever working with me. Ladies and gentlemen, James Burroughs. Bullet dodged. Well, yes, absolutely.

It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, James. Does this count as working with Gilbert? I think we could chalk that up. No, it's just funny. Tell him a change of shirt. That'll never happen. Hey, tell James the direction that David Steinberg gave you, unmad about you.

He'll get a kick out of that. Oh, yes. I once had to say something and run off. And David Steinberg said, could you run a little faster? And I said, yeah, I guess I could run fast. And then he goes, no, no, I don't need you to run faster, maybe a little more gracefully. And I said gracefully? And he goes, no, like less choppy, less shuffly.

And then finally he threw his hands in the air. And he said, can you run less Jewish? So obviously you had to run right to left. Yeah, yes. Quick. See what you missed out on, James? We were talking, go ahead, Gil. Yeah, no, we were just, we were going to say, Frank and I were saying,

maybe we'll start off with you telling our audience what your father, who your father was and what he accomplished. My father was a gentleman named Abe Burroughs, who was a radio writer in California in the, late 30s and 40s, and then he was asked to rewrite the book for Guys and Dolls in 1950 by a man he worked with named Ernie Martin, who was a radio producer back in L.A. And my dad came and rewrote the book to Guys and Dolls. And so he stayed on Broadway, and he became a Broadway director and playwright writing other than Guys and Dolls. uh can can had a succeed in business without really trying everything 40 carrots uh happy hunting

cactus flower uh so he was he became a legend on broadway very much so we got a kick out of the fact where gilbert was saying you know because we were watching interviews with you and you were just a kid watching his dad work it was a lot of the glamour of it was lost on you as a kid and certainly the glamour of the people you were meeting. Yeah, I had no idea. I was just, I was occasionally trundled off to rehearsals and would go to some of my dad's parties and sit around with people who I had no idea

what they were, who they were like, literally I said next to dinner, at dinner with John Steinbeck. I sat with Truman Capote, with Comden and Green. Kaufman. George Kaufman was my dad's first director. And so I, you know, I grew up in that aura and didn't quite register with me who all these people were until I got a lot older. And so meeting these people was just meeting a bunch of boring old people to you as a kid. And going to work was like if your father worked in a grocery store.

Yeah, yeah, I always described, you know, what I did was, you know, My father was a tailor, and he taught me how to make a suit when I didn't even know I was learning how to make a suit. I love that. I love that. No, I know the good thing about these people were they were funny. My dad's, you know, my dad's friends were mainly funny. Even Steinbeck was funny. And so they didn't spurn me as a young child.

They, you know, they talked to me and were very gracious. and so I, you know, I grew up around the intelligency of New York. Among those people that didn't really mean anything to you as a kid, I understand were Danny Kay and Groucho? Yeah, my dad was close friends, especially close with Sylvia Fine, who was Danny's wife. And I did meet Groucho once with my dad. I was old enough to know who he was. and he made me laugh. I love that.

What did we have? I mean, I remember I met him at Chasins, which was a famous restaurant in L.A. before it became of Bristol Farms. And I met him, I had dinner with my dad there, and we were walking out and there was Groucho. So we sat down at Groucho's table. table. And, you know, he talked to me as Groucho, but I'll never forget, Adolf Zucker, who was then, who was retired as president of Paramount Pictures, was about 95 years old, and he came, he came kind of shuffling through the restaurant, and Groucho

from the table said, hey, Adolf, Adolf, Adolf, Astana, Astana, waving his hand, calling him over to the table which was you know it was just it was so mean it was so mean and but you know

what could you do but laugh groucher was he was that way he was really funny how bizarre and you were Gilbert and I got a kick

out of the fact that as a kid you showed up on this not only the Sam Levinson show this is the only podcast by the way where you can guarantee

that the two hosts will know who Sam Levinson was Yeah, I know. But also on Edward Morrow, Edward R. Morrow's person to person, a clip I saw on your tribute special. Yeah, I was, I said my infamous line, when Edward R. Morrow asked me, what do I want to do?

And I said, I haven't made up my decision yet, which is, I could have said I haven't decided yet, but, you know, as a 16, 15, 14-year-old, I went to show that I was totally illiterate. Now, your father was called in front of the House of Un-American Activities during the McCarty scare. Yes, yes. Because your mom was a good old lefty who made you and your sister march in the May Day Parade. Yeah, we did March in the May Day Parade.

Which I love. In New York City, you know, back in the – when my parents met, they – they – they – You know, they were liberals back then, and liberals were communists back then. That's just, you know, that's just what it was. That was another term. And they, you know, they went to parties and stuff like that. And my dad was called before the House on American Activities Committee, yes. Yeah.

It's fascinating, too, because we've had, you wind up working with blacklisted actors. you wound up working with Gilford, Jack Guilford, on Taxi. I did. Yeah. I did. Yeah. Did you discuss? Did you, did you?

No. That was, you know, there were hard feelings all around with all those people. I'll bet. And it was not passed on to the kids, and the kids didn't carry a grudge or anything like that. Jack was very good friends with my mom. And Zero Mastel was also good friends with my mom. So, you know, they, they, you know, it was a really, it was a really tough time and people were called in front of this committee for just living their lives. And it was, I would, I can't imagine the position my dad was in.

You put him in that, you've said it, he was in an impossible position because if he said too much or he said too little, he could lose either way. Right, right. Yeah. And it was one of those times that, I mean, can you really, I mean, there's people who are looked upon as the enemies, but like they were under pressure too. Sure. Everybody was under pressure. It was, you know, to use a modern term, it was a witch hunt. Sure.

And because, you know, you had one guy. kind of, it was the energy behind this whole movement. And people were swept up, and it's not so dissimilar than what's going on now. Yeah. We always said, we had Erwin Winkler here a couple of weeks ago, and he made that picture, guilty by suspicion. He made a picture about the blacklist with De Niro, and we were talking about how it could come again. You also work with Lee Grant, who we had here. Oh, wow.

Famously blacklisted. You work with Lee Grant on Fay. Yeah. And she was, you know, as much of a victim as anybody. took a big chunk out of her career. I know. You know, a lot of people went to Europe and wrote under pseudonyms. And it was, I hope we never see that again.

I hope not. On a brighter note, we have to talk a little bit about something else that your dad did, which is the classic Duffy's Tavern. Right. Yeah. And I love these names. You know, you can find these on YouTube, James? You can find some of the old clips.

I found one with Bert Gordon, the Mad Russian, Arthur Trembuds. creature and slapsy maxi rozen bloom oh she's some great names from the past oh my god but an iconic show yeah i you know i was uh i don't think i was trundled to that rehearsals because i may have not been born at that point but uh my dad was uh i have a picture of me and my father and ed gardner yep who was who played arch uh archie the manager and i think my middle name i'm james Edward Burroughs is after Ed. Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool.

And believe it or not, I have, he had an apron. Ed Gardner had an apron that he wore, even though the show was on radio. He had this apron and anybody on the show signed the apron. And so Ed's mother embroidered all the signatures. So it came up for auction about 30 years ago at Christie's or Sotheby's, and I bought it. so I have it hanging, and the names on there, there must be 250 names on there, of the people who guessed it on the show. Wow. Tallulah Bankhead, Milton Burle.

Everyone. Everyone. It was, it was, Harry S. Truman. Wow. Nelson Rockefeller. It was crazy. Yeah, go ahead. Here's a simple and stupid question. How would you, what, how would you, what's the first? sign that you're working with a bad director what are the giveaway signs uh i've never worked with a director yeah uh but if uh the first the first sign of a bad director is when an actor asks

a question they say uh i don't know uh you can't you can't do that you have to take a stance you have to say if he asks a question is this funny or not you say funny and if it's not funny. You say, I was wrong. Don't say, I don't know. That's the worst thing you can do. And don't have to have an opinion, and you have to be able to get what you want in a way that's integral to yourself. See, I'm not a Martinette. I'm not a strict director. I'm not saying you have to be here and you have to be there. You're not out of Preminger. And, yeah, well, yeah. But you have to do that, and that's funny, and that's the way the joke's going to work.

I'm one who takes all kinds of suggestions from everybody, and I have certain ideas, and I make sure my ideas seem like they come from the actors so that you can do this wonderful creative effort that I try to do. So bad directors are, you know, people who, you know, people who. succumb to pressure and don't have their own opinion and don't know what the particular piece or what the particular scene needs.

And you said in one interview that you tell your actors, you tell your actors and writers, you give them a suggestion and you say, this may be great, this may be shit. I do.

I say that. I say, I say, before I do, you know, when I started out, I would do anything. When I started out on television, I would, you know, if a pilot was sent to me, I'd do it because I didn't have much choice. But as I got, once I did cheers and I got settled, all hanging balls, I started to assert myself more. And whenever I do a pilot or work with new writers, I have, I have, I have. I want to have a meeting with them where they think they're auditioning me,

but I know I'm auditioning them. And I tell them what I think, and the important thing I want from the writer is I want them to defend their material not to be defensive about it. And then at the end of that meeting, if I do work on the show, I will give them notes,

and I say 50% of what I say is great, and 50% is shit, and it's your job to figure out which is which I do that because a lot comes into my head a lot of it's not right I don't have real writer's logic I'll sell a scene

for a good joke I'll sell it down the river if I have a good joke that may not be integral to the emotion in the piece and it's wrong that joke is wrong it shouldn't be in there so I don't have writer's logic

but I do have a sense of what's fun how to make something funny and uh i you know i speak a lot one of the things you're known for if i may if i may say correct me if i'm wrong is is is coming up with physical business that makes the scene funnier because you i've heard you say uh you're you don't think like a writer you don't have a writer's approach but you you you also say you absorb so much by watching your father over the years and and you absorb so much working in summer stock working in theater yeah i cite that example of uh of the the mary tyler more episode where with lou and rhoda where you wound up putting them on a trunk yeah yeah i uh again you know i just have that gift

you know i call it a gift uh my dad used to uh you know say you can't learn funny which is true you have to be born that way and you know i i luckily got that gene so i kind of know what's funny and in my first episode I ever directed it was a Mary Tyler Moore I was brought out to do one show and I got a Mary Tyler Moore and the reading around the table

when we read the script the first time it was like D plus and I said I remember saying to Grant Tinker who brought me out I said in a sea of Danish I get a bagel and so I went down

on stage and I started to rehearse and I just threw anything in I could I invoke Shakespeare, I invoke Chekhov in the last scene between Lou and Mary where they're sitting on a trunk there

you know to me it was like I think it was like I said it was like three sisters where you know they're thinking about going to Moscow they have to move apart and stuff like that so I remember doing everything possible to add stuff to this show

and I was lucky enough to be able to impress people, especially Mary, who was running the company. So my career took off after that. Now I have to ask you another question that's similar to the last.

How do you, what are the signs of bad writing? Well, in a comedy it's not funny. And And it's just, to me, it's, you know, when I, when I read something, it's not the idea, it's the execution of the idea. Cheers is a show in a bar. There have been a lot of shows set in bars.

Like Duffy's Tavern. Yeah, yeah. We were, a couple of people sued us. A couple of people sued us when Cheers came out, claiming that we stole it. And we would always say, get it. get in line behind my dad. Wow. That's a perfect answer.

Yeah, and we never had a problem after that. But, you know, bad writing is, the people don't sound like they're talking to one another or they're not relating or they're, you know, it doesn't come from the inside. It's all on the surface. So, you know, it's just something you have to. feel. I can't, you know, I can tell you what bad writing is. And the biggest example of bad writing

is the play I wrote to get out of the Yale School of Drama. Oh, that's funny. That's in a vault. And no one has the combination. No, no. You know, two other quick things about your dad before we move on, James, one to touch me, too. You said, I'm not a martinet, but you said that you learned, there's so much psychology that, by the way, your description of working with actors it's fascinating but you said one of the things that you got from your dad was was treating people with kindness yeah that's one of the things you picked up yeah he was uh you know when i was when i was a young boy i didn't i didn't see it but then

when i stage manage for him uh on uh first one was breakfast at tiffany's and then on the road company of cactus flour and then on 40 carids i could see how he worked with the actors and my dad was a playwright and a director so he would rewrite a lot on his feet but he would always treat everybody with kindness he would you know take all kinds of suggestions he even took one from me that ended up in 40 carrots and uh he was he was he was he was not you have to be over here and you have to be over here it was like you know i learned that from him you know, walk in the door. That's what they say starting a scene.

You start over here, you start over there, and let's see what happens. So, you know, that's, it was never, no, don't do it that way. It was never, I never got angry. I never said, there's only one way to do it, and it's my way. Because actors, if you cast the right actors,

you cast them because they're good and they're creative. So they can only make the piece better and they can only make the piece better by having the freedom to experiment and we do that a lot. I thought it was interesting too and Gilbert will appreciate this that your dad gave,

he mentored some young people. Like Dick Moore? Me? Like your dad? Yeah, you. Yeah, you as well, then Woody Allen. Yeah, well, yeah. He wrote that letter on Woody Allen. behalf.

Yeah, my dad told me that Woody Allen came to see him in the 50s, I guess, and Woody's related by marriage to us. I'm not sure how, but he came to see my dad, and he had 50 jokes. And before, you know, my dad read the jokes and immediately sent, Woody did a Sid-Cesar show and to comedy of what is it I don't remember the name of it

Oh of course A show of shows Shove shows Yeah show of shows So he sent him over to Sid And I said to him my dad Why'd you do it? And he said because there were 50 jokes

I could have never thought of Wow So There was a connection there With Woody and my dad And the last thing that you wanted to do was going to show

business. Yeah, that's fascinating. You said you wanted no part of it. I didn't. I went to I went to music and art high school. Believe it or not, I went to, it's now

LaGuardia, it's combined with performing arts, but when I was 12 years old, I was in sixth grade and people from the Metropolitan Opera Boys Metropolitan Opera came around and they wanted to know who could sing my country Tis of the

and I could, I sang it and I got into the Metropolitan Opera Boys chorus and I was in it from when I was 12 until I was 17 and we would go you know we would take the subway down there would be in Geneskekeke or La Boeem or Cavalery Rusticana

or Carmen. It was our big opera. We had two big choruses and so when I was going to applying to college at high school I sang for music and art and I got in on my voice which was horrible I was a boy soprano and a bad one but I got in

so I got into music and art and then when I you know I I didn't I couldn't sing. I couldn't be in the entertainment world. And then I went to Oberlin College, which had a great theater department. And I didn't

want to do anything in the theater. I felt, you know, that my dad was a legend. I didn't want to go into that business. In New York City, that was you know, he was very, very prominent in the city. And I didn't want to do any of that.

I didn't think I had any of the skill. And then when I was, he was, he was, he was, a And I got out, they were calling up people for the Vietnam War, and I didn't want to be in that area either. So I had no heel spurs, so I couldn't get out that way. Nice touch, James. Yeah, thanks. Lovely.

And so I, my dad said, why don't you go to graduate school? So I got into the Yale School of Drama. and there I took a directing class with a man named Nico Saccharopoulos who ran Williamstown and was a director on Broadway and I kind of said, okay, I see what directing is and maybe I can do that. So I kind of gravitated to that. But then when I got out, it was just, you know, what do I do now?

I said, well, maybe I'll stage manage. So stage manager is a guy who runs a show in the night and direct the understudies. So slowly through that process, I got more and more into directing. But initially, I was a government major at Oberlin, and I wanted nothing to do with the theater. And the rest is history. Yeah, luckily. This is a quick departure or a little side note, but you work with two people that we're interested in. in your road company days, Don Knott's and Zhaja.

Yes. Any quick memories of either of them? Yes. A lot of them. I know we could do a seven-hour show, James, with you easily. Yes, I know. I ran a theater in San Diego called the Off-Broadway Theater, way off-Broadway theater. And I was the artistic director, and we would do star vehicles.

We did Mr. Roberts with James Drury, the Virginian. James Drury, yeah. And then we did Goodbye Charlie with Joanne Warley, and we did... Shahzach. Yeah, who was afraid of Virginia Woolf with Carl Betts and all the big television stars back then. Sure.

And then we did Last of the Red Hot Lovers with Don Nott's. And it was a big hit. So we brought it. up to the Huntington Hartford, which is the theater here in L.A., and it ran for three or four weeks, so I got to know Don that way, and he was a wonderful man. And so that's literally the only time I work with Don. And then with Jaja. On 40 carrots, right? Yeah, and she is, you know, God love her, she's passed away, but she was somewhat instrumental in

my career. When I was stage managing 40 Carrots, she came in to replace June Allison, who replaced Julie Harris. So with the stars who gets replaced, I would do their blocking for them

so they would know. And then my dad would come in and, you know, do one final rehearsal and get it into shape and everything like that. So I would so Josha became very fond of me. I would, you know, I could tell her to do things and I would not get a fight or anything

like that. She really liked me. So I would direct, when she would do 40 carrots or she did Blyce Spirit around the country, they would hire me because I could wrangle her. And so we went to, they hired her to do 40 carrots in San Diego. And I, and I, agreed to do it and then she bowed out and we did it anyway with Marjorie Lord which is how I got the job as artistic director in San Diego which is how which gave me some credentials that Mary Tyler Moore was impressed with so so everything leads to something else yes yeah yes so jasha you know jaja believe it or not when I was running the theater in San Diego I would come up and I would

do casting in LA and I would always stay at Josh's house and she would feed me it was it was it was a strange I was a strange relationship I was you know I was I don't know she

she liked me and I liked her I got a kick out of her she was very sweet and very funny yeah we were returned to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast right after this. That's what you say.

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Here they come, Gilbert and Frankie. The promise their podcast will make you a guest anyway. Now, this question may go absolutely nowhere, but I'm hoping it's true. Why should it be any different than your other question? This one, someone told me that the two of us. old guys that sat at the bar. Oh, Gino told you that. Yeah, Al Rosen. That one, that Al Rosen used to be a stunt man for the Three Stooges.

I think that is true. Al, Al was, his title was the man who said Sinatra. Right. Because I think the first time he ever spoke, it was Sinatra. And that was, he said it about four times. in a show and we started to we started to use al a lot he had a couple of short lines but he had been in the business he probably was i don't i don't recollect that but but he was an old time hollywood guy and he's in the stratton story that i looked it up the the jimmy stewart movie the baseball movie do you know that movie the monte stratton story i don't montie stratton

but i don't remember the movie yeah yeah he said i he had some credits in the 40s and 50s he was a sweetheart he uh you know he had we used them occasionally on cheers he uh but he was always really funny yeah gino who's a friend of ours was an entertainment reporter out of milwaukee new al and said please have asked james about al because james was very good to him oh yes we were but he he was good to us because he was really funny but i can't believe that's a connection to Three stories. From Cheers. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a fun one.

When you were working on 40 carrots, the story I heard, you were on the road and you went to a, you went back to your room and you saw the Mary Tyler Moore show. Am I mangling this story? No, no, it's true. It was not the 40 carrots on Broadway. I was doing 40 carrots

in Wallingford, Connecticut, with Joan Fontaine. Okay. Wow. And I went back to my, I went back to my room on a Saturday, turned on the TV, and there was a Mary Tyler more show and in my head I said wow they're doing a half hour a week and I'm doing a two hour show a week I think I can do it so that's what gave me the idea but to go back to how I know Mary is the first show that I worked on on Broadway was a show that my dad wrote called it was a

it was a musical of breakfast Tiffany's called Holly Go Lightly and uh It starred Richard Chamberlain and Mary Tyler Moore, Dr. Kildare and Lori Petrie. And I was in charge of Mary and Dick. I was a third assistant stage manager, and they were the Hollywood people. And my job was to show them around, you know, when they came off stage, take them to their next mark and take them back to the dressing room, get lunch for them. I was really their gopher. So, I, you know,

we went out of town with the show and we were sold out because you had Laura Petrie and Dr. Kildare. Sure. It was crazy. A winning combination. Yeah, and David Merrick

was the producer who was a great Broadway producer and he was unhappy with the show. And I have to admit it was not my dad's greatest work. So David, replaced my dad.

And he replaced my dad with a man known for his musical comedy who was Edward Albee. Yeah. And so I said to my dad, can I stay on? And he said, sure.

So I stayed on the show and, you know, my job expanded. I would go down to Edwards Townhouse and get the rewrites because there were no fax machines. back then or anything like that and so Merrick decided

to rather than go out of town again with the show to rehearse the reworked version of the show in New York and open for previews so we opened for previews and it was a disaster

the show was a disaster it was dark there was some really good Bob Merrill Meryl songs in it but it was a dark show And poor Mary was in tears all the time. Yeah, Mary was in tears, and she would come off stage, she was crying, and I would be the person who would meet her. And I would take her to her next position and stuff like that, or up to her room, and she would change. And it was just, it was a horrible experience for everybody.

And we closed after four performances. And so we became very close because this was, you know, just a disaster, and we were all in this lifeboat, and we shared the oars. And so after the show was over, Grant flew in. And I sat with Grant and Mary for a while at Sardis. And so we became friends. So that's my first introduction to Mary. And so that's how she knew me. So there was some luck involved in that that she went on to have this wonderful career and took me along with her. But also a little Hutzpah involved. I mean, you were working with a road company, and you saw her on television, you said, I'm going to reach out. I'm going to, I think I can do this. I thought I could, and I guess I was right.

Turns out you could. Yeah. Just talk a little bit about those MTF glory days, James. I mean, not only the Mary Tyler Moore show, but you directed Phyllis, you directed Rota. We had Paul Sand in here a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about friends and love. Did he tell you I was his dialogue coach?

He did not. Oh, yeah. I would go, I watched, I started by watching the Newhart show because in a particular thing that I do multi-camera show in front of an audience, I knew about all the staging of the actors and everything like that. What I didn't know was about the cameras. So I had to watch for about four or five months to watch how the cameras work to get the shots and everything like that.

So after a while, once I learned the cameras, before I got my first shot, I would go to Paul Sands' house on the weekends, and I would run lines with him. Nice man. Oh, sweetheart. Yeah, we love him. Yeah. That's fun. And the Tony Randall show, another MTF show. Right.

The Patchett and Tarser show that I love, that should have been a bigger hit. I know. Tom and Jay made me laugh. Oh, my God. The two of them were so, so funny and so mean. Well, I mean, one of the hallmarks of those MTF days are those writers. I mean, Brooks and Burns and Dent Dan Daniels and Ed Weinberger we had on the podcast, by the way. Oh, you did?

We had Ed here, yes. Oh, my God. I haven't seen Ed in years. Oh, he was funny as hell. But love those shows, and you liked one in particular. Was that an MTM show, the Rob Reiner thing? Yes, there was free country Oh my God, yes

We both like that one Yeah, tell us about that one That was I think Six or seven episodes It was about Jews on the Lower East Side And Robb wrote it And was in it And it was

You know, everything was period about it It was set in the early 1900s and it was funny and sweet. Joey Pants was in it. Joey Pants, Reney Lippin, and Judy Kahn. Yep. What were the two families that were in the show?

And I had a great time on that show. I was sad to see that it was canceled. And another show that you did that I think I saw about two episodes. Maybe there were only two. But I thought it was a funny show. And it had one person who I'm sure you admire because you worked with him on Taxi. And that was George and Leo.

Oh, the Judd Hurst show, yeah. Oh, God. Sure. I mean, I was in awe of working with those two guys together. Yeah, Bob Newhart and Judd Hirsch. And Judd Hirsch, yeah. Bob, just, when I was in college in 58, 59, my dad sent me the button-down mind record, and I could not keep my classmates out of my room.

Everybody wanted to hear that record. So I was just, I love Newhart, and then I got to work on his show on the old Bob Newhart show. And he just, nobody doesn't like Bob. He has it so distinctive and he's so funny. And I had a good time on George and Leo. It didn't last that long, but Jason Bateman was in that, too. Yes, smart show. And tell us about Judd Hirsch, who you worked with a lot.

And we want to get Judd here. You should get Judd. We want to talk to him. Yeah, we think he'll do it. He's, you know, Judd playing Alex Rieg. the only one who wanted to be a cab driver everybody else had visions and dreams to be other places Alex Rieger was a cab driver that was his job he understood it and yet he had the soul of the wisest man in the world and would listen to all the insanity and because he would listen

a lot like Ted Danson on Cheers because that character listened and acknowledged the other person the audience could embrace those people so the skill that Judd has as a straight man is just it's just

it's wonderful and I had a chance to work with him again on Superior Donuts where again he played the rock of the show and you know he's gloriously funny and can do it any accent in the world. And, you know, I've had wonderful times with him.

Straight men don't get enough credit. I mean, we've said that on this show many times. Newhart's another example of a viewpoint character who's a listener so that you can accept the other crazy characters that are orbiting around. Right, right. He's the windows of the show. Yeah, yeah. And they don't get enough credit.

In fact, when you watch the Mary Tyler Moore show, she doesn't get enough credit. I know. For being the straight person more often than not in the center. I know, you know, it's those, the ones who are either handsome or really good-looking or girls who are really pretty, who are centers, don't get the acknowledgement they should, you know, that people think they're stars because they're good-looking are pretty. But they're wonderful comedians, too. There's no more greater example than the six of those people on friends who, you know, For years, everybody thought the show was a success because they were so good-looking. And it wasn't. It was that they were all deaf comedians, and the show was so well-written.

So, I mean, a lot of times you don't, the center of the show doesn't get the acknowledgments they should. And we've had at least two members of the Mary Talamois show. We had Ed Asner, we had Gavin McClellan. and we had Weinberger. Yeah. Tell us about Gavin McLeod and Ed Asner to work with. And Ted? Well, I was, that was my first job, and I was scared, shitless.

Thank God for Jay Sandwich. Yeah, because of Jay, who was my mentor. Jay was so sweet to me, it's so wonderful to me, and so passionate about me. and, you know, he didn't bring me out, Mary brought me out, and Jay was so supportive. You know, I tell, I'll just tell a quick Jay Sandra story. The first show I ever shot, I was shooting the show, and I, somebody made a mistake, and I said, okay, let's back it up to this line. and I heard from the booth

back it up to Ted's entrance and I looked up there and there was Jay and he knew we couldn't cut the show it wouldn't cut together with the mistake unless we went back to Ted's entrance so he was there for me on my first show which was so sweet and to this day

I still I love him and, you know, credit him with being so instrumental in getting my butt off the ground and, you know, to be where I am today. That's nice. And as far as Gavin and Ted and Ed, the great thing about them is that they never really did much comedy before the Mary Tyler Moore show.

They, I think Ted played heavies on the Elliott Ness show. Sure, sure. And Ed was heavy in movies and Gavin, the same gangsters. And on the Untouchables, that's the show. Right, that's right. And so if you cast people on your shows who you've never seen funny, what you do is it enhances the element of surprise. Because you don't expect them to be funny, and they're funny.

And you go, oh, my God, this person funny, I never knew it. And you enjoy them more. They were wonderful actors, and they were also funny. I mean, we did it on Cheers. We cast Nick Colosanto played a coach. And Nikki had come off of the Mafia Don and Raging Bull. That's right. That was, to me, I didn't know it was the same person.

Yeah, brilliant piece of casting. Yeah, I remember them. It was so completely different. And so believable in both parts, which are polar opposites. I know. He was, uh, Nikki was unbelievable. Nicky was a director. He was, he was, he directed a lot of one hour stuff.

Uh, but, uh, excuse me, when he came in to read, we all looked at one another, said, oh my God. And those are wonderful moments in the room. I'll bet. When you can say, oh my God, when somebody brings something, you would. never think to to a part and you go oh my god this is great and we're all a benefit from it it was so strange because as coach he's kind of slow-witted good-natured and then there's this mean scumbag and raging bull yes yeah yeah so it's a it's a surprise yeah because nicky doesn't

look funny and all of a sudden this stuff comes out of his mouth and his attitude and he could play that he played coach it was unbelievable it's fascinating these casting the casting choices casting these dramatic actors I don't remember Chloris Leechman

being in many comedies either I remember in the Twilight Zone and mostly dramatic work and last picture show last picture show yeah yeah that is fascinating she yeah she and she was hysterical and the people on taxi too

I mean nobody thought of Judd Hirsch really as a comedian and DeVito had been in Cuckoo's Nest and some and some office Broadway. Fascinating casting choices. That's, I've been very lucky. And you were once talking about how, I mean, the character of Louis DePama is like, you know, in real life is a total scumbag.

And yet. But a lovable, vulnerable one, yes. So you had a theory for why he became a lovable guy. well his height yeah I mean and God love the boys Jim and Ed Weinberger

and Stan Danes and Dave Davis when we were doing the pilot of a taxi Louis comes out of the cage in the first scene and I remember going back after the first run through and the guy's saying we got to keep him in it till the last scene you don't want to see his

stature until the last scene and they were right because when he came out of that cage nobody could believe it so smart yeah and so you know he had that wonderful vulnerability

and you know Danny's such a great actor such a great actor it's so funny you knew right away when you read that script didn't you James taxi I mean I heard you say it was the hardest show you ever did but you knew right away

when you got the script in your hands that you had to do it Well, no, there was no way it was not going to do it. Even when my agent called and said, you're going to get a script from Jim and Ed, I knew I was going to do it. Because it was back then when I was kind of floundering around doing all these different shows. And when writers of their reputation chose to send me a script, I knew I was going to do that show. There was no two ways about it because I knew how good they were. Now, was it you who, I hope it was you, who got together with the cast of friends and said, after this, your lives are going to totally change?

That was me. That was me. I was doing, I did about four or five friends in a row at the beginning of the run. I did the pilot and I think the first four or five shows. and after about the third show I saw how the audience was reacting to these six people and the laughs were huge the writing was so good it was so funny and I got Warner Brothers who were the producers of the show to give me the plane their their private jet to fly the six of them them to Vegas. I just wanted to celebrate the fact that we were having a great time. So I flew him, me and the six of them, we flew to Vegas.

And I took them to dinner at Spago. And I said to them, you guys have to enjoy this because this is your last shot at anonymity. Wow. And they said, what, but you're kidding me? No, no. And I said, yes, I have a feeling. I have a sense and I think this is going to be

this show is going to be huge so we we had dinner and they we went to gamble none of them had money they all had to borrow it for me all these days are over yeah I know and it turns out I was right

I had it was just a magical moment I had, you know, I still am friendly with them all. I still see them a lot during the year. And it's just something special we all have. It's nice. Of that moment. And, you know, six, you know, not six beautiful, wonderful actors,

but six wonderful, sweet people that hopefully will always be friends. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. How'd you like working with, we had Ron Liebman here too. I know you've worked with Ron a handful of times. What a sweet guy. Yeah, Hudson Street. Yeah. With Tony?

That's right. Yeah. And I did another one with him. Yeah, I can't remember. I don't have it on my card. Yeah. I'll find it somewhere. Do you have nothing but Jews?

Was it Pacific. Was it Pacific Station? Everybody you mentioned is Jewish. I don't understand. What is it? I'm in charge of it. Well, Joey Pants, we had. All right, right.

Steve Buscemi. Yeah. And Alan Alder was here. He's a pizan like me. I try to squeeze him in, James. It's hard. Occasionally we have a token goi. You have to.

Yeah. You have to. Back to a Jew that we have to talk about, Because it's somebody you both knew, Gilbert knew him a little bit, and that's Andy Kaufman. Oh, God, yes. Yeah. I love Andy. And that's an hour show, too, but we'll try to condense it.

Yeah. Tell us. Yeah, it is an hour show. The end. I loved Andy. He was just, to me, one of the most brilliant and bravest comics I'd ever seen in my life. And tell us the agreement, the contract. of how he said he had to bring in another person

who will have his own dressing room and that whole part. Was that when he had to have Tony too? Yeah. The agreement the boy signed with Andy was that he would do the show if this gentleman named Tony Clifton could do one episode of Taxi. Tony Clifton was Andy Kaufman's alter ego When Andy would do a concert Tony Clifton who was Andy

with prosthetics on his face and a stuffed suit so he looked fat and a ruffled shirt and a brocade tuxedo because he was a lousy lounge singer from Vegas so he would open Andy's shows and you know get hooted off the stage

and they'd say, bring on Andy, take an admission, and then after intermission, Andy would come on and, you know, do foreign man and do whatever he did, Elvis, and so. A great Elvis. Yes, one of the best. He had the sneer down. Yeah, that, yeah. So, so the show came up that he was going to do. And I know exactly. when it happened. I don't have Mary Lou's memory. She has that crazy memory, but it was the day that

Bucky Dent hit the home run to beat the Red Sox. One Game Playoff, right, 78. And so Andy was, Andy had day-night reversal. Andy Kaufman would come in at 1 o'clock for rehearsal because he was up till 4 in the morning and slept till 12. And we were starting at 9 o'clock rehearsal. And here, with the show with Tony Clifton, and here comes Tony Clifton at 9 a.m. in the morning. And he wants us to stop watching the game because he wants to rehearse. And he never wanted to rehearse. So we started this rehearsal, and it was not going to work, because you had Andy Kaufman playing Tony Clifton playing Louis DePommer's brother.

And so I called up to the boys. They came to see a run through. and they decided we have to get rid of Tony Clifton. And so if you see Man in the Moon, it's all in there. Well, it's fascinating from our perspective because Bonner's is playing, who we had here on the podcast, is playing, what, an amalgam of you and Weinberger? Yeah. Yeah.

It's bizarre. And what I find so strange about the movies is that Danny DeVito, is not in taxi. Oh, yeah, he's playing George. Yeah. He's playing George. Right, but we also had. Yeah. Yeah, so.

Was it like that the way it was depicted in the film? It's pretty close. I mean, I remember that day when Ed came down to fire him and Andy, Tony, had two prostitutes with him. You know, a normal shit that happened. Sure. And I remember, you know, I had fire him, and Tony said, I'm not leaving.

That's great. And I'm going, holy shit, this is the greatest ghetto theater I've ever seen. And so we're watching, we're watching, Judd's watching, I'm watching, Tony, Danza had a Super 8 camera and he can't find the film. It's just sad. So he won't leave So finally Judd says All right I'm going to go play So Judd grabs him

And throws him off the stage And everything like that And it was just It was wonderful theater And we hired another actor And the show went on And it was fine And Andy came into next week

As if nothing happened I love that And when Andy was doing stuff like that Did ever you or the other actors Say Okay cut the shit No, no Because Andy didn't do anything like that

Andy played Latka And he had a photographic memory He knew the part It was this one-dimensional character That Andy could play And he never None of that shit ever happened Other than the Tony Clifton incident

You got an audience with him though too Which I found fascinating You had him You had dinner with him we had him Ed would have occasional parties on taxi and Andy was uncomfortable so

my wife back then and I would have Andy come over to the house and we would talk and again he was this he was this meek soul from Great Neck Long Island but a genius you know and then we all went to see his milk and cookie show

after when he was on taxi when he Was that the improv or somewhere? No, it was at the Huntington of Hartford. Oh, okay. It was the first time he wrestled. Okay.

And then, you know, he did all the characters and everything like that. In the end of the show, when we walked out, there were buses, and the buses took us to the pizza factory for milk and cookies. And it was just, it was so wonderful and weird. It's a magical nature to the guy. Gilbert, how well did you get to know him? Not well. But you saw him in the clubs early on. Yeah, I, yeah.

we never actually spoke he would come in i remember i very clearly him doing stuff like um reading a hundred uh singing a hundred bottles of beer on the wall he'd do every one and then yeah and then it gets to that point where you go oh shit he's going to do the entire song but uh you know he never told jokes no and he never told jokes he he would he would do something to you laughed i mean he came out red gone with the wind and you you know you didn't know what was going on pretty soon you'd start laughing and that was that was that was andy's you know he was incredibly brave performance art yeah total performance art yeah and and and and farce let's talk a little bit too quickly can you tell us about two actors that struck us that were on

on taxi that you directed. Victor Bono, playing Reverend Jim's dad, and Ruth Gordon. Wow. I don't remember too much about Victor. I don't, you know, I don't remember that. It's a long time ago, I know.

Ruth, I remember. Yeah, she was Sugar, Sugar Mama. Yep. You know, and I might as well tell the story. I don't think anybody's ever told. I think Judd told me

this story. She had, in the show she had this guy who was kind of a Semitic-looking guy who was her lover. And his name was Aharon. And that was the actor's name. And I said, because I was done with a scene, and then I said to my AD, I said, said, okay, I want to start the next scene, I need Ruth Gordon and a haron. And she started laughing, and I don't know why she was laughing anything like that. She came, she did the scene, she was very sweet.

And then I said to Judd after, why was Ruth laughing at that point? And Judd said, because she thought you said, I need Ruth Gordon and a hard on. that's hilarious at 88 that's hilarious how great is she and where's Papa by the way James a kind of black comedy

that Hollywood doesn't make anymore oh yeah that was that was so wonderful to be able to work with her yeah let's let's talk about cheers too the casting quickly because also I was fascinated

by the by the way I love that you and you refer to you and the Charles brothers as two Mormons and a Jew speaking speaking of Jews but

the genesis of Cheers is interesting how it was going to be at first you guys were Faulty Towers fans Yeah huge fan Yeah we'll talk about Cleese if we have time And at first it was going to be a hotel And then it was going to be a bar On the way to Vegas

In Barstow And then it was going to be a sports bar And then you pick Boston I mean it's a It's an interesting road Also the casting is interesting How you brought in three duos We brought in the finals

for for Sam and Diane the finalists were Julia Duffy and Fred Dreyer Fred Dreyer

was at that point a former defensive end for the Rams yeah sure Billy Devane and Lisa Eichorn William DeVane

Gilbert why yes yeah well Billy Devane and Lisa Eichorn who were in yanks together and

Ted and Shelley and we invited the network to Paramount because there was a bar there was a bar set on bosom buddies so we used that bar set and we rehearsed all three

actors and all three sets of actors and they were all wonderful in their own right I mean Billy was great and Freddie Dreyer was Sam Malone

because at that point he was a wide receiver for the Patriots and Julia were great

they all had but the people who had the greatest chemistry were Ted and Shelley so

we went up to the room and we discussed it people somebody was really wanted us to

hire Fred Dreyer but at that point he didn't have the comedy chops we

needed so we end out with Ted and Shelley and I think it worked out

I would say. And Shelley is another case of her character was like a snooty bitch, and yet she's a lovable character. Absolutely lovable, yeah. Yeah, half the men wanted to kill her and half the men wanted to sleep with her. Yeah. And it was, I give all my credit to, all the credit on that to the Charles brothers.

because when we discussed the script before they went off to write it we discussed Sam working for a woman and that became the permutation after Shelley left but at that point when I left them

we had the character of the coach we had Norm, we had Cliff, everybody like that but we didn't have Cliff but we had Norm and coach and Carla and stuff like that and they came back. I remember coming home from a vacation,

and there was a script on my doorstep, and they had created this character of Diane, which I had never seen before. I had never seen that character. And the bar conversation, I had never seen that. And I said to them, you've brought radio back to television, because it was so literate,

so smart so funny I couldn't I couldn't believe what they did and it was you know it was you know a seminal moment for all of us

that moment that that script arrived and so you know we got we cast it right we got lucky with when somebody left with replacing them that was somebody equally as good or sometimes somebody better.

Sure. And, you know, it was a wonderful 11 years. Yeah, like Woody Harrelson was a totally different character than the coach was. Yeah, well, we were in 84, we followed family ties. And Michael was such a star that when we knew, When Nikki passed away, we didn't want to do an older guy again. We didn't want to do a younger guy because we wanted to hopefully get some of the Michael Fox audience to watch Cheers. And then we had a kid who we really loved to play the part, and the last actor to walk in the room was Woody.

And he walked in, and he read with Teddy, and we went, but of course, why do you? didn't we think are going that way? And that was it. We just got lucky. This is something Gilbert and I will never experience, but is there an electric moment when all of this comes together? The writing

coalesces, the acting, the right actors walk in the room where you just go, well you know in your bones, this thing is special, this thing is going to fly. And how does that... Yeah, we were flying when Woody came around. Yeah. But I mean you go back to the beginning. That's what I

Yeah. We, you know, you got to get a great script. Then you got to cast it great. Then you got to get a network to put you on a good time slot. Sure. Because sometimes great shows don't have anybody famous in them and there's no reason to watch them. So you've got to get in a time slot where people can come to the dance late because it takes a while in television to get the word out. So we were lucky, you know, we were lucky with a wonderful script on Cheers. We were lucky that Ted and Shelley were available at that time. We were lucky to be on NBC, which had nothing. You know, there was nothing. The sitcom was dying back then.

They didn't have any big shows. They had a couple of dramas, L.A. Law and maybe Hill Street. and we, you know, you know, I always have a dress rehearsal before I shoot the show three or four days and on Cheers, we had this dress rehearsal and the audience went crazy. So I knew we had something special and I knew they were laughing.

They laughed at Norm when Norm entered. Right. And I looked at Glenn Charles and I said, oh, my God, they're laughing at. attitudes so I knew and you know we were lucky we were lucky we kind of you know did nothing the first two years and all of a sudden the Cosby came on and so we got more people to the dance and you know yeah it's electric it happens it's you know I've I've had it happen four or five or six times and it's just there's nothing like it that's quite an experience what was the

The original storyline to the Big Bang theory? We did, on that we did two pilots. We did a pilot. The first pilot was the boys, it was Johnny and Jimmy, Sheldon and Leonard, who walking down the street and they find a girl crying on the sidewalk, decide to take her in and live with her. It turns out she's a hooker. So you had these nerds living with a hooker, which I thought was a wonderful premise.

But we could never get the casting right on that. And God love Chuck. Chuck Lorry went back and said to the network, let's take another shot at this. And they created the penny across the hall and put in two more nerds. And the rest is history. And it's a tribute to Chuck.

I only did the pilot of that show. And I've worked with Chuck since then, lot and he's a genius of what he does he knows characters he knows funny and uh those you know he's he's keeping the sitcom alive right now he is speaking of jews we had on the podcast did you got a fan letter when you guys were working on cheers from norman lear i did it was our first fan letter what did that mean to you oh my god i showed it to the boys you know this is when we were struggling when we were yeah it came at the right time yeah the first year on Thanksgiving, we finished the last, we were the last rated show on the air that

week. It was scary. And Norman wrote this letter, how much he loved the show. And we went to lunch with him. And who better to go to lunch with than the man who created Archie Bunker? And we went to the Brown Derby, which no longer exists. And we sat there in awe of Norman. And it was so wonderful to see that he was in all of us. How lovely. Nice. Wow. Just at the time you guys needed a shot in the arm and praise from Caesar showed up. Yes. That is fantastic. Let's talk a little bit about Will & Grace before we let you out of here, James, because I know it's a show you're very proud of, as you should be, because it's a game-changing show.

It's a trailblazing show. It's a show that means a lot to a lot of people and change the culture. And as with Taxi, you kind of knew from the beginning. You knew, I guess, when you saw Max and David's script. Again, I read the script. It was a tribute to Warren Littlefield because Max and David wrote a pilot for NBC previously, and they didn't pick that up, but Warren said, I like this character as Will and Grace, can we do a show about them?

So Max and David went off and wrote the show, and I read it, and I loved it. I just, I thought how wonderful this show was. It was smart, it was funny, it was pertinent. And I said to my agent, I have to do this show. So I did this pilot, and it was again at the dress rehearsal in front of this audience. It was through the roof. It was just wonderful. And so the network picked it up, and the rest is history.

I mean, we've – I'm doing the reboot right now. This is our – almost our 230th show, and it still makes me laugh harder than any other show. And you said that you're against reunions. Well, you said they're hard to do. They're hard to do. uh this was max muchnick's idea we did a political video with the four of them and the network liked the show and the four of them kind of looked the same so we said why not try it so we tried it and it was uh it's turned out okay it's it's listen that you they've still got the same chemistry i know i was skeptical too i said well i don't know it's been years and will it happen again can you make that magic again. But they're such

infectious performers. No other show does those jokes. You can't do those jokes. We're the leading show in euphemisms because euphemisms are funny than the actual word.

And it's just, it makes me, it's such a delight to go to work. It's such a delight to, you know, hear these wonderful lines to Max and David

and the rest of the writers have created. so it's now you know i'm well into my late 30s and to be able to to be able to show in your late 30s that really makes you laugh is is it just gives you new life so a couple of actors that i that i marked that i set aside here uh from from will and grace we just lost the great rip torn yeah any any particular standout moments or jean well somebody we also lost not long ago yeah we had you know we we had so many guest stars because once the show took off everybody wanted to be on the show we've had every gay icon in the world

absolutely share not gilbert though not gilbert maybe there's room in the reboot gil We had Patty Lepone, we had Bernadette Peters. All of them, yeah. All of them. Did you say Elton? Yeah. Yeah, we had Elton? Yeah.

Right. They were all great. You know, if you're on that show as a guest star, you've got to come up to the level of the four of them. If you don't come up to the level of the four of them, you're going to be in the live. So every guest actor, you know, had fun on the show. You know, when Close was playing Annie Leibowitz, and she had a great time. Kevin Bacon.

Michael Douglas was great. Michael Douglas was fun. Michael Douglas playing a gay cop. Yeah. Gay man dancing, yeah. Yeah. And you got to direct the great Sidney Pollock. Sydney was Will's father, a wonderful man.

So, you know, we were all in all when he was on the stage. And he loved it. He loved being directed. Oh, he started as an actor, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How does it feel? And I know you're not a proselytizer. You've said it and you, you know, you leave the political stuff to people like Norman. But it has to be gratifying, too, to be part of a show, especially in light of what Joe Biden said when he, when he, I guess he evolved on gay marriage, that Will and Grace was in some way responsible for changing the country's perception of gay people to be part of something like that. Yeah, I don't think You know, what we say on the show is What we've said is

Ellen opened the door and we broke it down Yeah, I'll say I'm not good with proselytizing And I don't think Max and David want to preach either What the show did The best example is I would drive carpool on Thursday when my kids went to high school

and these were 13, 14-year-olds and Will & Grace was on Thursday night and I would pick them up and as we were driving to school they would say to me, what's on Will and Grace tonight? And I thought, wow, we have 13 and 14-year-olds watching the show.

They have no preconception of what gay is and so they're enjoying the show so maybe they will not be influenced by a bad talk about gay people

or something like that maybe they've been exposed to these people so there'll be some tolerance not to say that they would but you know I said so maybe elsewhere in the world there are these young people watching the show

and getting an idea that gay people are funny like everybody else and they're just other human beings so I don't think we ever set out to do that I tell Max and David at the end of the first episode of Will and Grace we did I wanted a kiss between Will and Grace so that maybe America would think

that Will could take the magic pills and Mary Grace and become straight. And that was never going to happen but I figured if I could get people to think that they'd watch the show and then

they'd see how funny it was and then it wouldn't care. So maybe it worked, maybe it didn't work but you know, 230 shows later was still on the air. Keep it going as long as you can. I just quickly want to read some messages that we

got here. I reached out to people you worked with, some that have done the show, some that haven't. Michael McKean says, please send my regards. Tell him I watched a taxi episode in a hotel room. The local broadcaster was having equipment problems, which slowed the playback, and Jim Brooks' trademark whooping laugh turned into a melancholy banshee motif. And it made me love him even more. I work with Michael on Laverne and Shirley. Yep. Yep. Don Rio says, just tell Jimmy I love him. which I wanted to pass along. And Alan's Weibel, I asked about a pilot you did called Big Shots in America. Right, with Joey Montagna.

That's it. And he says, the pilot should have worked. Great cast, great director, and the script wasn't bad. But asked Jim if we could work together again someday. I've matured a bit, and I've done a few things since that pilot. Yes. I loved Alan. I loved also working in New York, and Lorne was the producer on that pilot.

So I got to work with Lorne. and that was great. And Ken Levine, he says, ask James, Jim, if he held it against my partner, David Isaacs and I, that during the Bar Wars episode of Cheers, we wrote, we had their rival Gary play a practical joke by filling Rebecca's office with sheep. Does this mean anything to you?

No. Oh, God. Kenny and David wrote a lot of really funny scripts. Funny writers. Yeah. Yeah. Last thing I want to ask you is how did it feel when NBC decided to do the tribute show? I guess you had your doubts because you made a joke.

You said to Sean Hayes, who was producing it, you asked him if you could take the drugs that they were taking. Yeah. So you strike me as a kind of a humble guy. Was it tough to do that, to let everybody pay tribute to you and then have to get up and make a speech? Yes. Yeah, I'm not, you know, although I've acted in a few shows, I'm sure you guys, I was in a new heart and a rhoda. We have them all here.

Yeah, unfortunately. It's my, it's not even a real. It's only an RE. Okay. It was very difficult for me. I, you know, I am, I am a humble guy. I, I, I work, I, you know, I work from the heart and to see. All that tribute, it was amazing to me.

But the great moment that those at home didn't see was the fact of the Big Bang cast going over to the cast of friends who they had watched. Wow. And hugging and people going to see the taxi cast and the Cheers cast. These actors in shows I did later who had grown up on these shows to get all these people in their. this room at the same time was, you know, it was, you know, it was, I got such an anarchist out of it. I, uh, in case you didn't know I was Jewish. I, I was, I was, I was thrilled by it.

I can imagine. I, I had, I had a wonderful time. And showing your humility, you gave credit to everyone around you. I mean, right down to the crew, not the actors, the showrunners, the right. right yeah to you deserve it they deserve it i'm nothing without them that's sweet we can do a hundred shows there's so much i mean i don't know if you can see the cards i have on the table here i got about 20 cards here i even made you can ask me anything you want i even made a list of the pile of some of the series that that i like you was you talking about free country

that you that you directed the associates with martin short i mean best of the west pacific Station with Robert Guillaume, Mad Men of the People with the great Dabney Coleman, George and Leo, we talked about, Victor Fresco, Sean Saves the World, Don Rio's Pearl, Stark Raving Mad, these were good shows.

Yeah, yeah, but, you know, it's just... Finalee Boys? Oh, that's with Joey Panx. Yeah, another one. And Libertini. Libertini. God, Joey Pants and Chris Maloney.

Yes, yes. But they didn't have the luck. They didn't have the things going for them that cheers had. No, they just, you know, it's just sometimes shows work. Sometimes they don't. I, you know, it's a crapshoot. And I've been holding back from asking you to do this. But can you sing a little of my country tis of thee?

Why don't you have him sing as half Torah? I paid somebody to sing my half-Tara. Did you? Speaking of that, I was, my parents, my parents asked me at 13, a question you should never ask a young Jewish boy, which is, do you want to be Bam-Mitzvitt? Because the Jewish boy will say no, because it's work. So I was not Bam-Mitzvittsv. Neither was Gilbert. Yeah.

What? I wasn't. Well, you can still do it You can still do it Because I was bar mitzvah at 47 years old Wow Well, how old was Kirk Douglas' second bar mitzvah?

He was like in his 90s or something Yeah, I think in his 90s. I was by midstead of 47 Because my first wife was a conservative Jew And I said, why not? So I was bar mitzvited in an Orthodox shul I did the prayers in and out of the Haftora.

I paid a guy to sing the Haftora for me. Oh, you weren't kidding. Oh, yeah. And as a tribute to me, at my 50th birthday party, Brandon Tardikoff, the late wonderful Brandon Tardikoff, who was my dear friend,

made a video for me. And a couple of people they interviewed, they interviewed the Charles brothers. And the Charles brothers said, I was the only man they knew. That was Bar Mitzvitts for 47 and lost his hair at 13. So I got two guys here who were not originally Bar Mitzford when they were supposed to be. But you can be by Mitzford at any time.

Yeah. And James will direct it, Gil. Yeah. Yeah, I'll do. And if some people will promise they'll come over with money, I will get the Mitzvitzv. You'll get cufflinks or fountains or... Are you going to do something? else with Norman Lear? You did the own the family

Jefferson's reboot? Yeah, I had a great time. I had a wonderful time. I worked with Norman. Yeah, yeah. One of my idols and with all these actors who are all wonderful stars in their own right

who came together and was in my lifeboat with me. That's nice. We made this wonderful show and it was thrilling and exciting and it got good rating. and I think they're doing a couple more. And it was, you know, it was wonderful to direct the Bible

because those scripts are, you know, they're great. They're sacred. They're sacred. Yeah. You know, I know you're a big admirer of Larry David, James, but did you know that Larry David directed Gilbert in a pilot? I don't know that. Or did he write it and not direct it?

Yeah, he wrote it. He wrote it. Forgive me. It was a pilot called Norman's Corner. Have you heard of it? I have not. Okay. I barely have, and I was starring in it.

With Arnold Stang. Yes. Oh, my God. It was so bad that years... How bad was it? Oh, yeah, thank you. Years later, years later, when they were pitching Seinfeld, they asked well okay who'll be writing this and they said Larry David

and they said isn't he the guy that wrote that piece of shit Gilbert Gottfried oh James we'll send you a link so you can enjoy it oh my God I can't I can't wait if I have to fall asleep at night I'll put it on we'll send you a link thanks so much for doing this Oh, thank you, guys. This was a joy for us.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Some questions I've never been asked before, and I loved it. I'm glad. And you're not going to sing my country tis. My country, my country, but I had to sing, you know. My country is of the sweet land of her, Bertie. I can also sing from the opera Carmen.

A leg of a demontente, Nuzarrivoila So a trumpete A ta-tara-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ha. A man of many talents. The man has eight Emmys And you just made him sing my country tis and James, thank you so much.

Thanks for all the years of entertainment for being such a part of our lives. Thank you guys. You're so sweet and good luck. Well, this is Gilbert Gottfried. And this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. with my co-host, Frank

Santo Padre, and the man who's done millions of TV shows and never fucking hired me. James Burroughs. You got a better

chance of Edgar Rice Burroughs. James, thank you so much. James, thank you so much. One of my favorite shows. that we've done. Thank you. You want to go where everybody knows your name. Gilbert Godfried's amazing colossal podcast is produced by Darrah Godfried and Frank Sontapadre, with audio production by Frank Ferdorosa.

Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiades, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.